Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Facility Question and Answers => Topic started by: Che Gookin on May 20, 2013, 04:52:14 AM

Title: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Che Gookin on May 20, 2013, 04:52:14 AM
Matt, making this thread for you bro. Remember what I suggested in private message. If there are any problems, I'll see them sooner or later and delete them.

Elan Versus Three Springs could be an interesting starting point if you'd like to go that route. Maybe we could drag psy into this discussion by his ears and get him to comment on CEDU.

What are your thoughts matt?


Danny B is not welcome to post on this thread.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on May 20, 2013, 06:48:09 AM
Fair enough  don't know how to do that- but deleted or moved because of breaking forum rules works for me.

I am sorry to say that I am not very familiar with Three Springs ( school,  academy, RTC ) Where was 3 Springs located , when did it start ? It is well documented that Elan started in Maine and the founders name was Joe Ricci. I don't know how much of the Elan background story is needed - maybe this is enough.

I have no general knowlede of 3 Springs ,where it was ?, who ran it ?, what was its methodology based on -  was it a  cousin of the cult Synanon or a direct decentandant of Synanon or thrice removed ?

For example Elan was a clone of  the cult Synanon once removed -Joe Ricci got his taste of the Synanon game thru his brief time in Daytop Village of NYC. I believe he was sent there because he was busted being a common thief and told the courts that he was a drug addict to escape prison time - (referenced from the book Duck in a Raincoat, by Maura Curley. ) It is in there not going to cite spacific page number -go read the book.

Elan was a creation /incorporation ( for profit ) by Joe Ricci and a Doctor Gerald Davidson who had connections to Harvard -get into that later, if it is deemed important . Elan started in 1970,  based on Synanon thru  Joe Ricci's experience of Daytop's version of Synanon - and Daytop has a whole history in being that it is a direct split-off - spin off of Synanon.- Maybe that will be adressed later?.

Small word about Synanon -If someone is really interested , Paul Morantz.com is a good place as any to start getting familar with the cult of Synanon- it was a cult founded by Charles Dederich in 1958, in Santa Monica ,California. Dederich started it based on AA, the twelve step methodology .Which was based on .... seriously how far back do we need to go? The Oxford group /Frank Buchanan influencing the father of AA -Bill Wilson. AA is also considered a cult by many.

Lots of Questions here about 3 Springs - just the getting to know the wheres and the whos and the connection to Synanon -the  cult beast that spawned a large purportion, either directly or indirectly, of the  RTC's that existed or exist today.

Che,  this could be considered an introduction into 3 springs because honestly I know very little about it and I would certainly like to know more as evidenced by the questions I have asked. How were children brought into the program? how many children /people did it , could it accomadate and so forth?  

Hopefully this is what you and others had in mind in a comparing /contrasting of Elan vs other programs. In this topic Elan vs 3 Springs. Therefore let this begin. As this topic progresses (hopefully) we will be able to get into the spacifics of the different techniques used by Elan as compared and contrasted by 3 Springs, starting from day one in the life of a child/person in their journey thru hell, as they began the indoctronation into their perspective program.

And to all survivors I am sorry thay anyone had to experience what these hell-holes had/have to offer.It was a very painful experience for people that were stuck or placed in these places, a very unfortunate situation indeed.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Che Gookin on May 20, 2013, 01:23:20 PM
Three Springs was crapped out of Mike Watson's ass end in the 1990s if I recall correctly. Mike Watson apparently worked at a program in Georgia, which one can't easily be confirmed as everyone at Eagletree Lane (3 springs old corporate hq) can't seem to remember. Which makes me wonder if Mike Watson worked at Hidden Lake Academy, but I can't really prove it.

Three Springs started in Paint Rock Valley near Trenton Alabama. It expanded to include a Girl's campus a while later. It rapidly began to buy up programs and open new ones until finally being bought out by Sequel TSI, which from what I can tell is just your average exploiter and abuser of children. It's hard to trace a definitive connection between Synonan and three springs.

I think it is highly possible there is none.

Three things stand out in my mind about Three Springs.

1) They had a hokey stage system involving Native American animal totems.
2) The food was awful.
3) The kids got roughly 30 minutes of face time a month with the shrinks.

Of course, I can't neglect to mention the abuse. It was prevalent in 3 springs. I don't ever recall anyone deliberately punching or slapping a kid. We had physical restraints for that sort of thing.

What specifics about day to day life at Elan stand out the most for you Matt?

Like what is a day in the life for an Elan detainee when you went there?
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on May 21, 2013, 09:37:35 PM
Che asked "what specifics about day to day life at Elan stand out the most for you Matt?"

Specifics as in the prevalent theme of Elan , generally speaking (lol,) besides the constant screaming and yelling - I remember  being kept off balance emotionally and mentally, perpetually being kept in a constant state of fear- and always the threat of physical violence, and pain, either happening to you or to someone you liked or looked up to. Elan at the time mixed adults with serious alcohol /drug problems with children from private placement like I was and children from various state institutions.  

As a child, and I was a very naive child , you looked up to these people because there wasn’t really anyone else to look up to, for conversation and a sense of protection- you felt  that they were able to protect themselves from the insanity  and violence afterall they were adults and to a child like myself  a person 3 -5 years older than me was huge . Yet there were residents that were 38 ,27, 32 years of age also. You realized in about a month quite quickly that they (the adults) were not inescapable/safe from the threats of violence/or the actual violence itself.

It became apparent as time went on that you were in an eat or be eaten type situation in this so called  community within a community as it was described to me during my first few days.

On a daily basis we were kept emotionally and mentally off balance, with the constant threat of physical harm. Hell there was a time I was put into the ring about a month or so after I got there on the side of the house, I had not been in a real fight in all my 15 and half years , I had no clue how to fight, (still don't ) I tried to hide from the eyes of the director Jeffery Gottlieb as he was looking for  a fresh person to go against Bob Gellermino, who had already gone a few rounds and even though he had been softened up ,I had no desire to go into the ring . Gottliebs eyes fell on me and he said you go in next and I protested, under my breath- the residents that heard me mumble my protestation  yelled out he doesn’t want to go in.

Gottlieb looked at me and said if you don’t go into the ring you will go the ring -against the house . I went in the ring against my wishes and barely landed a punch and they quickly realized that I had no experience in fighting. I was scared and humiliated at the same time  due to my acute boxing ineptness. There were some people that were silver mittens ,there were some kids there that could seriously fight.

I witnessed many a beatdown. Hell -there was once a director who went into the ring against a resident, because this resident was so big and I remember to this day Peter McCann sucker slamming this resident to get the advantage. Peter McCann was a cross eyed giant in stature sadistic director who took great joy in using presure points on residents and causing physical pain. He was a big scary sick cretin, he died in 1985, but not before he lost his legs to diabetes.

The threats of violence weren’t limited to  the ring -  there was ; the  General Meeting , the insane cowboy ass-kicking, the electric sauce,  forced hard labour, the constant yelling and screaming.
   

 Che asked "Like what is a day in the life for an Elan detainee when you went there?"

Well first we were called residents -  I remember being told it was because we were not mental patients ,even though some people came from hospital –and that we were not inmates – though many were there in liue of jail or juvee halls. Yes we were  called residents.  (this was 7-74 to 7-76.  things may have modified since then, but this was how it was when I was there -then)

The food also sucked , we were given cigarrettes a pack a day , and drank coffee like fish drink water.

It is hard to answer this question Che- because a day in the life changed from the first few weeks you were there and kept changing thru out your stay as a resident, until you achieved the goal of graduating. When you first got there , you just kinda floated for about a day or two . Other residents of  “strength” unbeknownst to you- shadowed you and constantly talked to you about the place . You had to learn a new lingo , everybody would ask you well what was your bag. Which I had no clue what they were talking about –though it meant what did you do out on the street , drugs ,steal, robberies, pimpin , hustling  what were you into on the street.

You learned in this honeymoon period how to book an incident ,what the shingle was –the literal book that incidents got booked into , you learned about the injustice system, how to give an injustice , what an attitude was – it was an unattended coffee cup or  full ashtray , book , trash , clothing – it was called an attitude because it represented an apathetic non caring attitude, it was unattended it had not been cleaned up or put away -it was just left for somebody else to deal with because of their "apathetic attitude". You learned what the the pull –up was  and the proper way to do it  and to who you could give a pull-up  to and then how to use the dump after the pull up had been given.

You learned there was a dichotomy, very similar to the U.S. Military, you learned your job in this dichotomy would more than likely be a worker on the service crew or worker in the kitchen. You learned that the expeditors were the police force ,their job was to conduct headcounts every 10 to 15 minutes ,there were no bars  or alarms to keep us in- but they knew with in 15 to 20 minutes if someone had “split” Expeditors also found people thru out the house to “knock on doors “ for “haircuts”  (straight out of the Synanon playbook) or just get people because they roamed all over the house, keeping an eye on the residents. Looking for contracts , people acting off their eyes for each other , Contracts could be cigarrette , split , and goofing off contracts.

Expeditors tried to instill guilt into people with their stares when the house would be called into the dining room for a general meeting. You were not allowed to talk as you sat for hours sometimes before the general meeting started . Expeditors were allowed to roam around and they would stare at residents and whisper to each other just to hype up the already strong paranonia that already existed just from being in Elan in the first place. Such a silly little game they played all to keep residents off balance and to try to make people feel guilty. ( I laugh at it now -but rest assured it was not funny then)

You learned in your first week what the groups were ,what haircuts were –verbal reprimands- and you were told the whys –you were told that the reason you were yelled at in these  haircuts was because out on the street you had a hard time listening when people talked to you and as a result that was one of the reasons you ended up in Elan and you needed this yelling .

You learned that the entire resident population was also called the house and you learned that the service crew cleaned the common areas of the house . I started out as a worker in the service crew. In this position we also were told what the Elan philosophy was, we studied it word by word - and what it meant –line by line, the redundancy of the philosophy was to the point that it became a part of your life. You were always from that point on in your Elan cult life always trying to get with the program.The Elan philosophy was read at morning meeting and before the house was sent to bed.

During the first weeks you learned what it was meant  by  the phrases  “buy a saddle “( straight from the line of the elan philosophy “seeing ourselves thru the eyes of others shall demand change) or” throw it out the window “ you learned about the encounter group, the static group, the sensitivity group, and  the primal scream groups.

You learned that a persons job was also their status and accorded them power over the lower ranks of residents. The highest level was the senior co-ordinator ( all co-ordinators carried special notebooks) they were the ones that were in charge of the various departments . you learned that beside the kitchen ,service  crew, there was also the business office ,and the communications department. During  your learning process – you learned that you had to request phone calls and they had to be passed up the dichotomy- you just couldn’t go to  the senior Co-ordinator and request a phone call home because that was not the proper way and you could get a haircut for not following that rule.

You learned quickly what the rules were and the main three rules –the so called ‘Cardinal Rules” 1 no violence of any kind , 2 no drugs and the third rule- was no sex of any kind.

You learned that your phone calls were going to be screened and to make sure that you didn’t say anything negative about the program , you learned what the rules were in you first couple weeks . so many rules that could get you a haircut ,a general meeting and that did not involve breaking a "cardinal rule" . Break  one those and you were certain to get a General meeting.

Funny when I think about it Elan and the directors broke 2 of their own cardinal rules, they drugged people and my god Che those directors made us be commit violence  to our fellow residents thru the ring ,cowboy ass-kickings, general meetings  and the electric sauce – shoot I forgot-what am I thinking - that was the sanctioned violence that Elan and the directors held over every residents head , therefore that made it okay , lol -NOT. It was insanely sick.

When a person first got there they learned the difference between  the house meeting, general meetings, and morning meetings. They learned where the pull up sheet was( right next to the breakfast sign up sheet) and how to bring a pull up to morning meeting , the new resident also learned that their very first taste of personal humiliation was going to be the song and dance that they would be performing on the next morning meeting or when they were prepared, as was my in my case. This everyone did you were told -it was to help break your image. speaking of images -all men who had beards or facial hair - it was shorn upon your arivial to elan. My song after about 5 days was Johnny B. Goode  by Chuck Berry – it was a terrible  rendition I will tell you.

Yes there is so much more you were taught during your first 2 weeks and as you were learning this cult language of Elan and the cult rules of Elan ,you also participated in group sing alongs. Must have sung “Our house"  by CSNY  so many times that now my skin crawl when I hear it -and quite honestly it is a good song , well written and the harmonies are beautiful ,but I can’t stand that song today . We sang Maxwell’s silver hammer, Hide your love away , Henry the 8th and many other songs. .

Eventually you were well on your way to being well  indoctrinated into the cult that was elan – thank god that hell hole is gone .

As for every seeing a psychiatrist( you didn't ) which is what Dr. Davidson was supposed to be besides being a  medical doctor and medical director of Elan  I spoke to him maybe all of five minutes during my 2 days shy of two years in that place.  There were no clinically trained personell at Elan besides Davividson during my time, that worked at Elan then.

I hope this answers a little bit of those two questions and hopefully it will cause more questions to be asked. I for one would like to know if any other programs resembled the lunacy that was elan and if so how? Did any program have the cowboy kick-ass, the ring , the electric sauce - the general meetings - the various groups and the verbal reprimands that were the "haircuts" as part of their program. How was Elan similar to other programs?

Yes the first couple of weeks were spent  learning to the point of sensory overload. And as you progressed in getting with the program what you could experience changed on an almost daily time frame and most certainly varied on a week to week  time frame.

There was a daily schedule , though it varied as well depending on many factors . The house was always being sent to bed at 11:00pm unless it was being kept up during a gm or because some one had split , the house got up at 7:00am   the house was called into the dining room for morning meeting at 9:00. lasted an hour- the house was sent to production at 10:00am house was called into the dining room for lunch at 12:00.  groups generally occurred after lunch – dinner was 5:00 -groups  could happen after dinner . and this repeated during the week , weekends were a little better, usually groups some slight free time , haircuts happened during the day and night, blasts happened all the time.  You time during the day was well occupied, the only peace was at night when you could sleep -if you could sleep.

There was a sheet called the “scratch” that an expeditor carried  on a clipboard ( all expeditors carried clip boards ) and it recorded in a rough form of shorthand the times a haircut was given –who gave it and who got it and why . This was the rough draft of the Daily report that was written up that included the  previous days activities –when ever the house was called and to where the house was sent ,all the groups –general meetings .sometimes the daily report could be 25 hand written pages and it had to be neat or the person writing it – generally the “ night man” –the resident strength that took headcounts every 20 minutes at night from the night owl –watched over the men while they slept and did head counts  and the night woman- who did the night time headcounts of the women - might have to write it up all over again . This "daily report was adressed to either the director of the house or to joe Ricci. It was the daily written record of the previous days activities. this scratch passed thru many different expeditors hands and sometimes it was hard to read the different handwritings.

A new resident learned that if you split that they would send out trackers to look for , these were residents sent out in twos that looked for the splittee at various places on the road and generally stationed at the toll collection booths in Gray Maine. And god forbid if you got caught.

A day in the life of an Elan resident was never the same unless you were shotdown – and that is when you lost your job and just cleaned and hit the pans. (washed the pots and pans and dishes of the  house from breakfast ,dinner and lunch), some folks got to clean dumpster with tooth brushes,  some got to move piles of Maine white granite boulders from one big pile to another and then back to the original spot all the while getting blasted on the spot for moving too slow.

Seriously thank god that hell hole is closed it has been the destruction and death of many a good person.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Che Gookin on May 22, 2013, 02:45:29 AM
Jesus fuck... I'm not sure how to respond.

Congrat Matt, you are probably one of the few who has managed to render me speechless.

Will read your post again and comment after I've had a chance to reflect on it. Till then a day in the life of a 3 springs detainee:

Detainees were worken up a 6 in the morning
Between 6 and 7 o'clock they had to get dressed, clean their cabins, make their beds, and make sure their campsite was in passable order.
7 o'clock breakfast. If you were late for breakfast you were not allowed into the dining hall but had to eat in front of it.
7.30 or so to 8.00 detainees were issued meds if they needed them and then hygiene time.

(It wasn't until nearly after a year all the groups started putting hygiene time on their morning, lunch, and dinner schedules, before then the detainees rarely brushed their teeth on a regular basis. I got worried that the boys in my group weren't developing good tooth brushing habits so I made it mandatory and everyone put their toothbrushes and some toothpaste in a tackle box we took everywehre we went. Parents loved it, kids didn't mind, and the other groups soon started doing hygiene time in the shower house. My group didn't they just used a nearby spigot and we would brush our teeth, wash our hands and faces, and comb our hair. Wham bam thank you ma'am which also explained why they were rarely late for school or other activities, lack of opprotunity to cause trouble.)

8 to 11 school.
11 to 12 groups could go to showers, do recreation time, or hold group meetings.
12 to 12.30 lunch
12.30 to 1 afternoon meds and brushing teeth
1 to 4 block activities- (Horse barn, wood shop, self-improvement...; depended what block the detainees were in).
4 to 5 showers, rec, group meetings
5 to 5.30 dinner
5.30 to whenever... students went back to campsite held their nightly meeting.
After nightly to bed time- snack, time in cabins to read, write, and or go to sleep early, up to the detainees.

It took almost a year of bitching, complaining, and ranting and raving before my group got the point I was trying to make which was as soon as we were done with dinner we had to move quickly to campsite, do our nightly, take meds, and then hit the sack. Most nights my group, after a year of chaos and anarchy, was in bed around 7.30 to 8 o clock at night. They could read, write, and sometimes do arts and crafts, but they were not allowed to talk to each other. I pointed out repeatedly they had all day to shoot the shit and once it was time for bed... it was time to be quiet and worry about themselves. Most of them seemed to appreciate the time to themselves and more often than not they'd collectively be conked out by 8 to 8.30.

Half the time I'd have to get woken up by one of the detainees around 9.00 to remind me they had to lock up the flashlights for the night.

I'll make a confession here.. and I don't feel at all guilty about this.. but it was a sinful pleasure I had with calling in for the night to the supervisor over the radio around 8.00 to inform him/her we were down for the night. I'd then leave the radio on just loud enough to listen in on the absolute anarchy that was going on in other groups. Not that all groups were so crazy, some goons (my word for counselors), had enough sense to encourage their groups get moving fairly early. What killed most groups was nightly. They'd spend half the night yapping on and on and on about all sorts of things. I used to tell them, "I'm no damn shrink... you know what behavior got you here, let's talk about that. If you need psych help when you get home we can work with your parents to arrange it." I also used to frown upon mandatory treatment team required topics. Meaning, the treatment team for my group would demand certain topics and often I would brush it under the rug as I felt it was either a complete waste of everyone's time, it was complete fluff, or on occasion a bit too intrusive.

Mostly I just encouraged my group to get to bed, not sweat the small problems, and focused on the small problems. By diverting their attention away from fights, stealing, and that sort of major problems and getting them to focus it on keeping clean, keeping their campsite clean, and maintaining good standards everywhere we went.. It reduced the level of violent incidents over the long run.

We went from having about 10 fights and 10 restraints a day when I first started to about a restraint a month by the time I was pitched out on my ass.

Now the abuse..

Clearly Three Springs did not have the same style of physical abuse as elan. We didn't have a ring in which we forced students to fight each other. There were fights but they certainly were not encouraged. I think the majority of the physical abuse came from restraints. The rest of the abuse came from consequences which I'll explain after I've had some time to think about it. There was all sorts of mental abuse as well but that's something I need to think about a in order to give some good examples.

I'm not at all sadden about having a terrible time recalling specific incidents. Time, liquor, and my mind's natural ability to suppress memories has washed some of the more nasty incidents down a bit.

As for restraints, In my experience I got thrown into a shark tank of student on student violence and ended up doing the only thing that seemed to work, which was restrain eveyrone in the most forceful manner possible.

What I should have done is quit and got a job at Pizza hut or any other number of places, but I genuinely felt like I was doing something useful. The boys in my group really did need someone at the program to care about them as most counselors hated being with them and often pacified them in anyway possible. I was one of the few who pushed them as hard as i could to get them to behave in a manner that would facilitate their release from the program in a timely manner. Almost every single time I started to get ready to quit, one of my group coworkers would quit, leaving me one of the few experienced counselors, and making me feel incredibly guilty about leaving.

Restraints became so common place that the aversion to them that I had was replaced with a sort of tired resignation. I never liked restraining the boys in my group, I never got off on it, more I just saw it as something unfortunate that had to happen.

never did it occur to me at the time that the entire reason they were happening was the fundamentally flawwed structure of the program itself.

What I was able to do though was reduce the number of restraints over time. I won't claim I'm a saint for the work I did though, instead I'll accept the fact that i was incredibly uniformed and woefully unprepared for the mental stress that sort of work inflicts on a person. I'm not sympathetic to people who abuse kids, far from it. However, I am sympathetic to the sheer tonnes of stress a person has to endure working with kids. It's a huge problem people overlook and it is one that needs to be recognized and addressed.

You can't expect people to make rational decisions when they are constantly dealing with stressful situations. There needs to be a point at which someone intervenes for the sake of the kids and the adults.

At three springs that point did not exist. Doesn't really exist in most other programs either for that matter.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Muppeteer on May 22, 2013, 03:40:22 PM
Matt's post is dead on accurate in terms of Elan, he has done an incredible job of painitng an Elan still life from memory, and all of it rings true from my experience close to a decade later.

I would simply like to add here, the program at Elan began to experiment with the CEDU exercises (aka Propheets/Workshops) by the mid-80's when I was there. I do not know how long they continued to use them. Ricci felt he was in competition with Wasserman, for sure, and Brown as well. He would occasionally reference a furniture salesman in Palm Springs with great disgust. I have since been able to connect those dots to Wasserman.

The takeaway is that Elan did evolve, as did Synanon and Daytop before it.

For example, I can recall only three or four rings occuring in the E-3 dining hall from early 85 to mid 86, and a cowboy beatdown was practically unheard of by then. Edit to add: Primal scream was also phasing out at the time, so much so that I want to say only certain houses were practicing it, and I can't recall participating in it, and certainly not regularly. That is not to say we didn't have a lot of yelling anyway in Raps (encounter groups),GM's and haircuts.

Finally, I have come to believe that my enrollment was (in part) part of an effort by Elan to change their demographics from state placements to private placements during a time when state placements were on the decline, and the Pinehenge school had lost accreditation, thus preventing some states from even considering the program.

Edit to add: having been there during most of the time that Ms. Curley's book was written, finally having had a chance to read it has been extremely enlightening. We (most of the house I think) knew it was being written at the time, it was a poorly kept "secret," but really just another feather to tickle Ricci's ass. Too bad the author did not see through the veneer at the time, or the whole place would have been exposed many, many years sooner.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Che Gookin on May 24, 2013, 11:05:01 AM
Quote
I would simply like to add here, the program at Elan began to experiment with the CEDU exercises (aka Propheets/Workshops) by the mid-80's when I was there. I do not know how long they continued to use them. Ricci felt he was in competition with Wasserman, for sure, and Brown as well. He would occasionally reference a furniture salesman in Palm Springs with great disgust. I have since been able to connect those dots to Wasserman.

Now that is interesting. My story is stranger than fiction at times. My brother got me into working for a program back in 2000. He in turn spent 19 months in Rocky Mountain Academy, and he's quite familiar with CEDU and Wasserman. He's doing fine now, been program free for ages, and has been a proud collector of Staffer Sobriety tokens at the Staffer's Anonymous meetings (lame joke).

I'm not ducking out on the thread, just been very busy at work. I'm a teacher by trade and at times, primarily the weekends when I do most of my classes, I'm quite swamped. I printed out Matt's post and I'll carefully read it before the weekend is up.

Till then, questions for me?

I think this thread is going pretty well. I'm willing to open it up to questions about Eckerd's Youth Alternatives as well. Get a 3 way comparison going if we get that far.

What sort of level system was in Elan?

3 springs it was

new group member
group member
responsible group member
distinguished group member? (could be wrong)
Senior Group Member

Treatment team met weekly to decide who got a stage increase, whose stage remained the same, who got consequences, and who got home visits. Treatment team consisted of the group goons (counselors), group head goon (supervisors), family coordinator goon (family worker), and possible a unit director goon (unit director, and occasionally the program administrator goon (head cheese). These meetings could take 3 or more hours as we went through heaps of nonsense about about each and every kid to decide their fate.

We talked about all sorts of things, 3/4ths of it we had no place discussing as none of us were educated enough in Psychology to be commenting on it.

How did this sort of thing work in Elan for graduating from the program?


mod edit: trimmed out the unnecessary remark towards another poster.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Muppeteer on May 24, 2013, 11:18:23 AM
"What sort of level system was in Elan?"

The level system was commonly known as "The Dichotomy" and as Matt mentioned, we had to memorize it like a cadet memorizes the military chain of command. The actual chart was on a blackboard on a wall in the room where we gave haircuts (known in Elan at that time as "VR's" or Verbal Reprimands).

This will be a test for my memory, so please forgive me if there are a few positions out of place...from lowest to highest, I believe it was something like this:

shotdown
worker
ramrod
expeditor trainee
department head
full expeditor
chief expeditor
shingle expeditor
coordinator trainee
guru
full coordinator
re-entry
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: psy on May 24, 2013, 11:21:44 AM
Quote from: "Muppeteer"
shotdown
worker
ramrod
expeditor trainee
department head
full expeditor
chief expeditor
shingle expeditor
coordinator trainee
guru
full coordinator

re-entry

It sounds to me like these are staff levels.  Were participants in the programs groomed to become staff?  Also, what's re-entry?
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Muppeteer on May 24, 2013, 11:28:57 AM
"It sounds to me like these are staff levels. Were participants in the programs groomed to become staff? Also, what's re-entry?"

Yes, Elan was always interested in retaining a handful of "true-believers" (for lack of a better term) to retain as staff. That is exactly how some long time Elan staff arrived at their jobs. Jeffrey Gottlieb, Clare Woodman among them.

Re-entry was the final level prior to graduation, and generally speaking it involved separating physically from the house you had been living in (and it's daily routines) and moving to the "re-entry" dorm. It usually lasted about three months. Once in re-entry, you could work off campus if you were of age to do so, or you could work in the Elan 3 kitchen for low/minimum wage.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: psy on May 24, 2013, 11:33:09 AM
Quote from: "Muppeteer"
Once in re-entry, you could work off campus if you were of age to do so, or you could work in the Elan 3 kitchen for low/minimum wage.

Were wages paid directly, or did the program hold onto the money for "safe keeping" (the CEDU based program I was in did this)?  Was it common for people to stay past the 3 month graduation point or to live communally with other elan folk after graduation?
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Muppeteer on May 24, 2013, 11:42:20 AM
The program held the money in a student account, there was no personal cash allowed to be kept. If wages were earned off campus, the money would have to be turned in to someone who would place it in the account. I myself was too young to work off campus when I was in re-entry, so I worked in the Elan 3 kitchen for a couple of dollars an hour.

I know from speaking with many of my peers, it was fairly common to band together after graduation for a time. Speaking just for myself, I know that for several years I kept in close contact with 4 or 5 of my closest friends, some of them even visiting for weeks at a time, which certainly stressed out my parents :) as we were up to no good. lol.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: none-ya on May 24, 2013, 11:48:31 AM
The seed:
newcomer
newcomer, at home
oldcomer
old timer
STARTOVER!



mod edit: trimmed out all the unnecessary comments.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: psy on May 24, 2013, 12:00:44 PM
Quote from: "Muppeteer"
The program held the money in a student account, there was no personal cash allowed to be kept. If wages were earned off campus, the money would have to be turned in to someone who would place it in the account. I myself was too young to work off campus when I was in re-entry, so I worked in the Elan 3 kitchen for a couple of dollars an hour.

If students decided to leave the program or were demoted during this period, what would happen to their money?  In my case, if they left, the money became the program's.  If they were demoted to a lower level, most of the time the money was held, but the program could "fine" that away arbitrarily.  Was this the case in Elan?  Were their fines as well?

Quote
I know from speaking with many of my peers, it was fairly common to band together after graduation for a time. Speaking just for myself, I know that for several years I kept in close contact with 4 or 5 of my closest friends, some of them even visiting for weeks at a time, which certainly stressed out my parents :) as we were up to no good. lol.

Did you talk about the program during this time?  Adhere to the programs' beliefs?  How common was this?  What i'm trying to gauge is how long on average true believers' beliefs would survive on the outside when you're only associating with other program members?  Did you have other friends after graduation?  Was this common?  What did they think about your experiences if you discussed it?
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Muppeteer on May 24, 2013, 12:12:08 PM
Quote from: "psy"
If students decided to leave the program or were demoted during this period, what would happen to their money?  In my case, if they left, the money became the program's.  If they were demoted to a lower level, most of the time the money was held, but the program could "fine" that away arbitrarily.  Was this the case in Elan?  Were their fines as well?

Did you talk about the program during this time?  Adhere to the programs' beliefs?  How common was this?  What i'm trying to gauge is how long on average true believers' beliefs would survive on the outside when you're only associating with other program members?  Did you have other friends after graduation?  Was this common?  What did they think about your experiences if you discussed it?


I have heard some (at least one) of my peers gripe to this day that Elan owes them back wages. I do not believe there were monetary deductions for non-compliance, or fines. They had enough control over food, cigarettes and soda to make monetary fines obsolete by comparison, especially since the money was not available until you left the program. And yes, I do think that most people recieved their wages upon leaving no matter if they graduated, signed out (at 18 years of age) or were kicked out.

As for the "after-program" experience, I can't speak for everyone. But I myself went back to the same public high school I was attending before my Elan enrollment, and the friends I met in Elan certainly met and got along well with all of my un-indoctrinated friends. We would frequently discuss it, usually in quite disparaging terms, as there was not a true-believer among us.

I'd say the real "true-believers" (again, for lack of a better term) still to this day hold their Elan experience in high regard. Refernece the Facebook group "Elan Saved my Life."
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Che Gookin on May 24, 2013, 01:03:52 PM
So there were no levels or stages for the students but there were stages for staff?
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Muppeteer on May 24, 2013, 01:34:34 PM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
So there were no levels or stages for the students but there were stages for staff?


Not sure which program you are asking about, but in terms of Elan, the dichotomy I posted upstream in this thread was for the students.

The staff consisted of a few different positions. There was "staff," usually a new hire, as there was plenty of turnover. When I was in Maine, Clare Woodman joined as "staff." Each house (there were four houses in my time, 3, 5, 7 & 8 ) generally had two staff. Each house also had one or two "assistant-directors" as well as a "director."

Adjunct employees also included the nurse, a residential director (Fr. Robert Allanach during my stint, who also served as Ricci's campaign manager when he ran for Governor in 1986), and a staff psycologist who saw kids from all the houses. There were also plenty of support staff (Sharon Terry was the "annex lady"  ((where we could obtain sundries, cig's and soda's)) and she was also Joe's secretary when I was there), a comptroller, a headmaster for the school, and a cadre of teachers for the nightly school sessions.

As many have already reported, Dr. Davidson was personna non grata most of the time. And thankfully, since Ricci was running for Governor at the time I was there, he also had limited involvement in the day-to-day.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Che Gookin on May 24, 2013, 01:36:20 PM
Ahh ok, was a bit confused by the way you answered Psy's question about Elan's stage system.

For the detainees/students... how were stage advancements decided?
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Muppeteer on May 24, 2013, 01:46:20 PM
That is an interesting question (how did you advance as a detainee/student in Elan?), because much of the decision making in that regard was not ever made really clear to the detainees/students.

In essence, if you abided by the program rules, you advanced. If you resisted (or were percieved to be resisting) or became blatently violent, you did not advance, or would get "shot-down" for a period of time and have to work your way back up the dichotomy.

There were rewards that came with each advance, generally speaking, a higher allotment of cigarettes and soda, as well as more opportunities to leave campus to see a film, go bike riding, etc. Many trips were to the mall.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on May 24, 2013, 07:48:52 PM
Cool Muppeteer and thank you for your earlier kind words, and  I thank you for speaking about  Elan during your time. It is neat to get a comparison and contrasting of the Elan program and how it modified  yet still achieved the same means, ten years later from my time.

Your discription of the dicotomy is fairly accurate - Chief expeditor was above the Shingle during my time. We had a senior Co-Ordinator as the top position in the house ,then the  full Co-Ordinators and of course the co-ordinator trainees. Guru and Jr Guru.

Haircuts could be given in any room of the house. There were also large Haircuts called the Round Robin.  

Mary O'Brien from my time has a very accurate drawing in her book titled,  My Imagination and Art  Sustained Me, concerning one that she and Jennifer Stamler received in the dining room together, they were back to back and about 25 plus people participated  ( all her drawings in her book are like pictures from many incidents that I witnessed  and remember, at least for me her drawings area treasure and are incrediblly accurate and are really cool. Her drawings are the only real pictures of elan during my time, except for the one group photo that most have from that time ) .

The full expeditor could give blasts to the expeditor trainee. Expeditor Trainees were constantly getting blasted, and to the point that they were put into a mental  state called spinning. Rushing ,running ,carreening off the walls to get those headcounts.

The same thing ,spinning could happen to residents that were shotdown, provided they had a  P.O. that were told to blast them every few minutes , some people had 2 P.O.s so they blasted in a tag team fashion. Po's were people whose only job was to follow you around 24-7   either to make your life hell  if you were shotdown or to keep an eye on you so you wouldn't split or commit suicide. Elan was insane during my time.

No one during my time got a job in Elan unless they had graduated that paid minimum wage. Muppeteer  your description of people working in the Poland Spring house #3 's kitchen for minimum wage was interesting.  

Joe Ricci created a position called re-entry staff in 1976, you got paid a stipend of 20 dollars every two weeks . Your parents were still shelling out the $1200 a month as it was back then until you graduated . Re-entry staff were still in the program, until they graduated, they still lived on the property with other folks that were in re-entry. I will expound on this  later if needed re-entry Staff were not like the paid employees -like regular Staff, Assistant Directors and of course the Directors.

I wonder what Elan was charging in 1986?

That was the ditcotomy of Staff . Staff , Assistant Directors and directors . All graduates that were tapped to be employees started out as Staff. If it was a good match( lol) then they proceeded  to become  Assistant directors, this could happen with in  4 months to 8  months of a graduate beginning to work  as an Elan Employee.

I always had respect for the staff that left and there was one person who became an assistant director and in less than 3 months he quit. It was surreal people you knew graduated and became staff anf then became assistant directors. One such fellow signed my diploma. Elan was crazy , you knew things that they had gotten general meeting for and they were now working as paid employees - some things were quite sick.

The staff  let us know that they got to go home and we didn't, amongst other things- lol.

Again Muppeteer thank you for what you have been contributing to this thread. I don't mean to step on your posts, I am simply writing about the Elan that I know and knew. I would like to get into what the groups were like  individually , you spoke that the Primal scream was still in use only at specific houses? I thought they had  gone by 1978, intersting. I called them the voodoo doodoo primal scream groups - will get into that later if anyone is interested.

Encounter groups could be like little general meetings - will expound on them also . Muppeteer did you have the sensitivity groups, that was the only decent group in my opinion ?

Psy there was no aftercare program when I was there.

edited for spelling and clarity ,may have to edit again I am a very bad speller.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Che Gookin on May 24, 2013, 10:06:12 PM
It's fascinating getting a generational perspective of Elan.  We've done something similiar in the past but never quite as detailed as this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=52&t=22295&start=0 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=22295&start=0)

Nimda used to be my old account, got a little too liquored up and depressed one night and predictable pathetic hilarity followed, this isn't the place to go into that story though.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on May 25, 2013, 12:41:41 AM
Interesting to read this  link Che - I was not reading  fornits when this topic was going on and alas did not see this topic until now.  

Thank you for posting it.

WTF2 was in the program with me,  she wrote the truth. no doubt about that.

Those were some insanely sick times in Poland Springs , she saw the evilness (that was Elan), and she knows the truth.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Che Gookin on May 25, 2013, 01:19:56 AM
What prompted the change from the ultra-violent 70s to the less violent yet more creepy cedu-esque 80s?

Do you think this played a long term role in the eventual closure of Elan?
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on May 25, 2013, 08:45:13 AM
They certainly knew that what they were doing in 1974 was illeagal or Joe Ricci and the directors wouldn't have tried to control what state inspectors were allowed to see by hiding what was going on inside the walls. Ken Zaretzky said it best ,he was an assistant director -now dead - Kenneth said " we lied thru our teeth " in referece to the state of Illinois and other state inspections.

The directors certainly didn't hide the violence or insanity because they were embarrassed,I actually believe they seriously enjoyed what they were doing,  by what they were having children and adults to do to each other . And as a resident you knew from " learning from iothers mistakes" -lol- that you were never allowed to speak to state inspectors about the horros that the directors were putting us thru.

good Question Che - I think it is possible that because elan was growing so fast during my time , maybe 110 residents in the existing two houses at the time I arrived . 50 to 55 in Elan 2 -located in Waterford ,Me. Asnd at Elan 3 in Poland Springs about 55 people when I got there in July of 74 that by January the population had more than doubled in less than 6 months. The violence was a way to control us and give us something to do. For the directors it was in my opinion it was a sick form of entertainment.  People were splitting and they had to instill the fear into us as to what happened to those that split and subsequently got caught- though people were desperate and still knowing what could await them split quite often.

Some residents had   prison hanging over their heads and I remember one person telling Gottlieb during one general meeting that he wopuld rather be in prison when he was asked if he wanted to go to prison, Gottlieb left the gm briefly  and  then came back and then told the fellow you should be careful for what you wish for and he cashed his prison ticket for him .The resident  was probably better off for this. Though his general meeting got seriously sick with graphic descriptions of prison rape and as the  homophobia of the directors was off the charts  as they really seemed to get into what could happen to a young adult in prison.

The directors were obcessed with all things realted to homosexual behavour, in the most negative fashion - mockery -shaming -and this is what will -not could but will happen to you in prison. and then the old question does any one else want to go to prison instead of being here in Elan. Elan  was insane, and the employees  were homophobic freaks. making kids sing the vasilene song - insane. Thank god that hell holes past caught up with it.

I think too that on down the road they reaslized that eventually if they didn't change that it would be closed down therefore from knowing this - And under doctor Davivsons guidance and Ricci lack of involvement they more than likely fine tuned the program over to where they knew the what would still achieve the means or out comes  thay were getting from being so violent.  

I think they went from being extremly violent in the 70s and were finding their way back to the middle the median of the stick - I don't believe the pendulm ever  sung so far to where it was ever a fun placve to be. they were learning about mob mentality -and human behavour -and certainly how far you could push certain types of personalities until they snapped or broke down.  

The directors had no formal training -schooling in the ways and means of basic human behavour - they were common thugs -con men -ex junkies or serioult sick sociopaths- I think Elan in the beginning for these cretins that helped Joe Ricci get fraudulently wealthy were getting on the job training in the sickest psychiological way possible -as a result there are many from my time that eventually committed suicide.

I don't think Elan closed because it became less violent -no one in the public eye (except for the ones in the Maine state government that aided and abetted Ricci in his fraudulent sham of a Residential treatment center ) knew just what the hell was going on in there .

Elan made sure that you knew before you left   that the abuse you received and witnessed was good for you , thru their public speaking program ,where residents went into the schools and community and gave speaking engagements. These were practiced in the house and you bet were highly cwnsored as to what you were allowed to talk about . Phrase that the public wouldn't understand therefore you should say this instead . The cult of Elan got you coming and going -

I think the past of Elan thru this wonderful thing we know as the internet was instrumental in the closing of Elan. Its skeletons that it aquired over the years finally caught up with it. II think that if what Elan did as far as brutaally abusing people and the superior job they did at getting the formerly abused residents to believe that they needed this insane abuse and were in fact better for this abuse -that elan would have been exposed many years earlier. And of course the residents that committed suicide certainly elan didn't caqre about them -they were just the expected collateral damage that Elan just wrote off as not my problem - and then play the blame the victim game -they weren't going to make it any way.

Elan back in my time- you could get in trouble -serious trouble if you spoke badly -"bad mouthed the program" - something you were taught from day one -and you could get dealt with rather harshly for this behavour. Elan left an indelible mark on our minds and a lot of us didn't wake up to what happened to us until 20 or so years after the fact, and then the truth that elan was the big lie and that the abuse we went thru was not good for us, in fact quite the opposite was/ is true.

We were treated like animals, call the house into the dining room and Tom Blanchard  ( drugged to the point that he would stand motionless in one spot ) would just start to drool.  

Elan I feel and think always reserved the right to come out sick on the  residents of the later years and I am sure there are incidents of this as to the fact that Muppeter wrote that they did se the ring in 86 though maybe 3 times in their  stay where many of us from my time saw it  close to 100 plus times or even more than likely  experienced it  during our stay  either for the house or going in the ring against the house.

Just like those ESPN missmatched early televised fights ,you always went in the ring against some one bigger than you when you went in against the house. and this could happen repeatedly in 4 or 5 rounds until the directors felt you understood your helpless situation.

Elan was a one size fits all program no regard to individuality and the employees  had many brutal tools of compliance to make you fit into it's cult based program. And you can believe some of us tried to get with the program as fast as we could, though nothing you did in Elan was ever good enough.

"the more that you give the more they  will take until you reach that fine line where you really can't fake - fire -fire on the mountain"
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Muppeteer on May 25, 2013, 09:11:17 AM
Well, good morning all, but especially to the folks posting in the nice little thread we got here.

Matt, you are not stepping on my posts at all. And I hope you don't perceive me to be stepping on yours, either :) I have much interest in this evolution at Elan (evil-loution? Lol)

We "spun" folks as well, especially in the high-stress expeditor branch of the dichotomy. I don't recall "P.O." per se, but it sounds similar to what I would call "S.P." or "support person" in my time. Essentially, you were assigned to watch another detainee, who was usually in the corner (and thus also "shot down") for some real or imagined offense, and make sure they didn't try to hurt themselves or anyone else. You were also encouraged, as an S.P. to try to talk to the person you were watching and try to get them to calm down/capitulate.

The dichotomy I posted, as I mentioned, was from memory, and I think the corrections you have made would apply to my time as well.

Re-entry, by the time I was there, was less a "staff" position than it was a position where you had more freedom to re-adjust to the outside world. One thing, however, was still the same, they were continuing to groom "staff" from the re-entry ranks. That is why I chose to work in the kitchen, heh. One of my peers from Elan 5 (I was in 8), actually got to do re-entry at home (in the mid-atlantic). Haha. She never came back for her "graduation."

We still haven't touched on parent groups and a host of other stuff we probably need to get to, and last night I was trying to go over the daily and weekly schedules in my head, they were pretty much the same as you have described earlier, but there are still a few missing blocks of time in my mind.

We also should talk about the house departments and their roles in the system, briefly, Cleaning Crew, Kitchen Crew, Broadcasting/Communications, and the Business Office. These departments existed in each individual house. Each department also had a ranking, akin to the ranking of suits in a deck of cards.

Che, I will offer some insight and speculation on why things began to change at Elan, as soon as I have a bit more time this weekend.

I also realize I have been answering but not asking a whole lot here. But I do have questions. Many, in fact, and I will get to some of those as we go, but for now, let me just toss one out there...

For you guys who went through the propheets in CEDU, or other programs, I'd like you to help me flesh out the "dreams" propheet. I have read the wiki on it and I see it kind of drops off there. I remember the can, the Jaws music, the guided imagery, and, very vaguely recall the slip of paper in the can. It seems to me the "Dreams" propheet was an exercise in guided imagery, followed by a "suggestion" which was represented by the piece of paper in the can. Does that ring true for you guys?
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on May 25, 2013, 09:57:43 AM
Absolutely Muppeteer the re-entry phase was the when residents, during my time of course-lol- had to go into the community and find a job , learn how to integrate back into society . Get a girlfriend -it was said to me that you wouldn't graduate until you had fufilled those requirements .you still slept in the dorms , you were considered strength - and pretty much left alone by the isanity of the house - unless they were called upon to run a group.

Usually they got a car ride into Lewiston to get to work .  they were not staff and I never looked at them as staff. Staff were paid - Muppeteer who was the director of your houses. Was Kruglik (chief Marty ) still there - Was Rosenburg an assistant director then - he was a resident at 6 he taught me the game spades.

Yes the cleaning crew was our service crew - cleaned all the common areas of the house.  and I am familar with the Kitchen crew as having also been in that Dept.  Most new residents were placed on the service crew during their "orientation " Ha I remembered yes new residents went thru the "orientation" process which is what I described "up stream" in this topic as to the learning of the rules of Elan .

co-ordinator
dept Head
ramrod
worker

I never heard of the Propheets or ? joe Ricc was fairly active during my first few months he would give these things as well as the directors and assistant directors called "seminars " during one Joe talked alot about his time in Daytop - and how horrible it was - shaving of heads - people wearing diapers , signs He also said that his Elan was going to be better than Dasytop - not as harsh - Ironically shortly after this people were made to wear signs , costumes ,one was made to wear a diaper - hair was actually cut -though heads were not shaved during general meetings .

I actually think Joe Ricci's program became much more brutal that what he experienced and talked about during his time at Day Top.

From that seminar of joe Ricci 's about a week after I got there -there is no doubt in my mind that he based  his program from his experience at Daytop- he threw in a few twists to make it his own - I guess he was worried that Daytop or Synanon would sue him for copy right laws -(lol) sorry small joke -  and Davidson did what ever Ricci wanted. I don't think Davidson had much input on Ricci's Elan he simply supplied the credentials that Ricci needed to make his RTC legal in the eyes of licensing for the state of Maine. Davidson maybe gave parents a sense of ligitimacy when they saw a Harvard trained doctor on board as a founder, who knows - one thing true for his lack of consuling of the residents he collected a nice paycheck.

Yes I agree this is a very good topic and thread it is nice to speak openly and freely w/o having your head chopped off Elan style.

Che was 3 Springs a " wilderness program" ? What does that mean actually ? how long was the average stay and what did your "detainees have to accomplish to be able to leave. where did most of them go when they left?  Average age ?  court ordered or private placement.  

Propheets- have no idea what model or style of program thought .Wasserman? Est ? curious what was it.

Thanks again Muppeteer for contributing to this disection of Elan. The mutal respect is accomplishing a lot on this thread.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: lifeboat on May 25, 2013, 10:31:31 AM
Quote from: "Matt C. Hoffman"

Propheets- have no idea what model or style of program thought .Wasserman? Est ? curious what was it.



http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php/Propheets_%28CEDU%29 (http://wiki.fornits.com/index.php/Propheets_%28CEDU%29)

Propheets was the name for the Large Group Awareness Training seminars used at CEDU. A propheet was a 24 hour workshop. It was named after Khalil Ghbiran's "The Prophet". Passages from the prophet are read at one point in each propheet.

Propheets

The Truth propheet
The Childrens propheet
The Brothers Keeper propheet
The Dreams propheet
The I Want to Live propheet
The Values propheet
The Imagine propheet

Workshops

I & ME workshop
The summit workshop

During the Wasserman years, there were 7 propheets and two workshops. The propheets employed sleep-deprivation, humiliation, occasional exposure to large variations in temperature, guided imagery, loud and repetitive music, regression therapy, bizarre ritual, and forced emoting. This normally resulted in a feeling of euphoria and exhaustion after the experience. Certain propheets actually caused students to temporarily lose their voice.

Propheets contained exercises which used metaphor to convey their message. Each propheet, with the exception of the last one, also consisted of disclosures and a lengthy rap (see below) where everyone in the room was spoken to. The students are "allowed" what appears on the surface to be a one hour nap the next day. However, staff walk amongst the kids as they try to fall asleep on the floor, and when they notice that the last one has fallen asleep, they wake up the students and tell them that the hour nap is over. After you complete a propheet, you are sworn to secrecy. However, you are allowed to speak to students who have already been through the experience.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: mbnh31782 on May 26, 2013, 01:38:09 PM
Downloaded a book that was a rare glimpse into what happens in a CEDU facility, in particular i think its been narrowed to rocky mountain academy.  Names had been changed etc.  the name of the book is "the discarded ones" by james tipper. fascinating read and really gives insight as to the fuckuppery of these places.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: lifeboat on May 26, 2013, 10:11:21 PM
Caroline the Wolf  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga0nQpXa61w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga0nQpXa61w) was my Voyageur family head and I will not be reading The Discarded Ones.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Che Gookin on May 27, 2013, 03:39:54 AM
Christ... I know about her. Uggh. Sorry to hear you enjoyed her personal attention.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: psy on May 27, 2013, 03:03:42 PM
Quote from: "lifeboat"
Caroline the Wolf  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga0nQpXa61w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ga0nQpXa61w) was my Voyageur family head and I will not be reading The Discarded Ones.
Too close to home, or you feel the book was too kind?
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: lifeboat on May 27, 2013, 08:44:32 PM
I haven't bought The Discarded Ones by James Tipper.  AFAIK he went to CEDU in CA from 79 - 81 and I would probably buy the book if  the author was sent to RMA or was sent to CEDU during my time ( When I was sent to RMA) .
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Muppeteer on May 28, 2013, 02:42:17 PM
If there was an Elan corollary to Catherine Wolf, during my time that person's name would be Anne Flynn, no doubt. Catherine sounds like a *lovely* person.  ::puke::
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: lifeboat on May 29, 2013, 04:00:05 PM
Caroline Wolf was a former CEDU student and knew all the tricks of the trade.  She had a unique way of Indicting children in raps.  Caroline would scream at girls for "selling their ass" and / or "running the streets of LA."  She was married to Randy Eide (former CEDU student) when I was at RMA.  Randy had an inappropriate relationship  with a female student and Randy & Caroline divorced shortly thereafter.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Muppeteer on May 30, 2013, 03:13:05 PM
*Caroline Wolf, yes. Fingers really wanted to type Catherine in my post above, apparently.

I mentioned I would get back here and offer my insight and speculation as to the why's and how's Elan evolved...so, very briefly, here goes...

Joe Ricci was the self-proclaimed "God of Therapy," but by the early and into the mid 1980's, I can easily speculate Elan was falling behind CEDU in terms of enrollment and reputation. CEDU had multiple campuses, Elan only one (Poland Springs) by 1985. The Elan population had declining numbers from state placements, there were no adults in treatment (or very few who remained after reaching 18 years of age), and high staff turnover rate was damaging the consitency of the so-called theraputic process. By the time I was foisted off there, Elan was hiring new staff from the college ranks, namely Lynda Roy and Anne Flynn, among others. These "next generation" staff members were bringing fresh ideas and concepts that had never been present in Elan. For example, the Propheets. Ricci must have seen the financial success Mel Wasserman, et. al., were enjoying out west, and wanted a piece of that pie. He even was talking about opening a west coast campus to compete more directly with CEDU. And, of course, it was also around this time he decided he would run for Governor.

Another competitor, Straight. Inc, had even been endorsed by Nancy Reagan, had multiple campuses in multiple states, and was another source of siphoning off Ricci's lucrative client base. So I really do believe that Ricci was feeling the heat from his competitors, and being so competitive himself, was willing to try a few new ideas to return Elan to it's "glory days" of the 1970's, when it really was on the cutting edge of TC's.

So again, by the time I was there, "primal scream" was not a regular activity. Yes, there was still plenty of screaming in encounter groups, GM's, V/R's etc, but the primal scream sessions, and presumably some of the other 1970's techniques, were being abandoned in favor of experimentation with some of the new age humanistic approaches. I can even recall a few "oxygen therapy" sessions complete with nasal cannula and guided imagrey occuring in the dorms in E8. Turning off (unplugging) electronic devices was one of the things that *had* to be done prior to these sessions, as E8 was a proven tinderbox. (see attic fire accusations discussed ad nauseum elsewhere, that's not really my story to tell)

So, Elan changed alot, became more in-line with CEDU with the advent of new staff with no personal program experience, but the folks they brought in, specifically Roy and Flynn, proved to quite adept at "getting it," so much so that I really felt for a long time they must have been enrolled at some point, but no, they were not.

Finally, as an aside, I want to mention Ms. Curley's book again. "Alice Quinn" in that book is *not* a real name, nor is it meant to portray Alice Dunn (another former Elan staff/director). No, Alice Quinn in Ms. Curley's book is clearly Anne Flynn. No doubt about it. And if Ms. Curley's book is an accurate portrayal (which I believe it is, to a "T"), then it would appear Anne Flynn's notorious and legendary mood swings were the direct result of the cocaine she and Ricci were reportedly abusing frequently in the mid-1908's.

See you next time.... :soapbox:
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: psy on May 31, 2013, 08:06:24 AM
Quote from: "lifeboat"
Caroline Wolf was a former CEDU student and knew all the tricks of the trade.  She had a unique way of Indicting children in raps.  Caroline would scream at girls for "selling their ass" and / or "running the streets of LA."  She was married to Randy Eide (former CEDU student) when I was at RMA.  Randy had an inappropriate relationship  with a female student and Randy & Caroline divorced shortly thereafter.
Reminds me of what somebody I was in program with once said.  He said they turned us into animals.  That we fed on each other to survive.  And that's indeed what we did.  You had to attack others, to report on others, to demonstrate your loyalty in an effort to avoid being suspected or attacked yourself (but at the same time, you couldn't over-do it or you would be accused of sucking up).  There was nothing at all healthy about it.  All it did was teach people to be cynical, distrustful, and to learn the best way to eviscerate somebody verbally by discovering and exploiting their weaknesses.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Che Gookin on June 03, 2013, 04:13:05 AM
Requiring the detainees to hold each other accountable is/was a part of 3 springs. It served the purpose of using the detainees to keep each other in check by playing on their desires to want to go home.

It's a control mechanism driven by the bait and switch method. Very simple to use, works well for the most part, and it is easy to implement with poorly trained individuals. It's not exclusive to programs either, I'm sure we've all experienced the occasional tin pot two bit dictator type at work or elsewhere.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Anonymous on June 13, 2013, 08:00:20 AM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
What prompted the change from the ultra-violent 70s to the less violent yet more creepy cedu-esque 80s?

Do you think this played a long term role in the eventual closure of Elan?
I believe the death of Phil Williams in the ring (murder) scared them into a less violent approach.


Muppeteer, good to see you   :rose:
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Che Gookin on August 04, 2013, 04:32:06 AM
Quote from: "Wayne Kernochan"
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
What prompted the change from the ultra-violent 70s to the less violent yet more creepy cedu-esque 80s?

Do you think this played a long term role in the eventual closure of Elan?
I believe the death of Phil Williams in the ring (murder) scared them into a less violent approach.


Muppeteer, good to see you   :rose:

Back the @##$ up... someone was murdered in the ring?
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Anonymous on August 04, 2013, 03:01:32 PM
The M.E. was never told that Phil was beaten in  the head for a half hour before his death

Elan survivors witnessed it. I've only heard about it
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Che Gookin on August 08, 2013, 10:29:28 PM
Someone confirmed it to me in an email.


Utterly insane...

So what political factors allowed Elan to escape scrutiny for so long? What connections let them get away with murder?
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Muppeteer on August 09, 2013, 08:25:45 PM
I am not aware of any "above board" political connections stemming from Elan until Bill Diamond came to be employed. Not saying there were none, I just don't know of them. Frankly, I don't even know when Diamond started working there.

However, people were certainly afraid of Joe Ricci, some because they were certain he had ties to organized crime (true or not), others, because of his propensity to sue the snot out of anyone he perceived was working against his interests. And, of course, he was a crazy sonofabitch.

It would not surprise me to learn he was throwing kickbacks to local politicians and others with power/influence in Maine, but I have nothing concrete to support that idea.

Plus, remember, Elan and other places like it were viewed in mostly positive terms, and they did an excellent job of keeping the dark secrets, secret. And Davidson was well-respected enough, that, again, folks likely couldn't imagine him being involved in an illegal child abuse factory, no matter the allegations or plaintive cries from early(er) residents who may have spoken out.

They were successfully sued by at least one former resident, if I recall my reading material correctly, but again, there were probably some non-disclosure agreements that went along with that.

There were rumors amongst the residents in 1985/6 that someone had died in the ring in the 70's, much as there was also institutional folklore about Skakel/Moxley during my time.

When I read that Father Bob was quoted at one time (in a story in the Hartford Courant) denying that staff in the mid-1980's were aware of the Skakel scandal, I just have to shake my head. I recall a very different scene playing out, and I believe staff was well aware of it. One staff member alluded to it to me directly, occasionally, (let's call it two or three times in the 16 months I was there) as a means of control, without ever directly naming Skakel, not that I was even aware of that awfulness at the time I was there. He was mentioned as a former resident who was a potential killer, the sharded golf club as weapon, and referred to as "Mike." Fear of your fellow residents was a common tactic in securing the resident/staff bonding necessary for the program to function as intended, and the Skakel story was used in loose terms to foster and grow that fear, at least in my case.

Sorry to veer a bit off the political connections theme, I hope someone out there may have more information about that...
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Che Gookin on September 06, 2013, 10:11:47 AM
In what ways did Elan manipulate public perception towards a positive light? I'm aware of how Three Springs managed it, but it seems like Elan had a fair bit more to hide.
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: blownawaytheidahoway on February 26, 2015, 08:15:48 PM
Quote from: Wayne Kernochan
Quote from: Che Gookin
What prompted the change from the ultra-violent 70s to the less violent yet more creepy cedu-esque 80s?

Do you think this played a long term role in the eventual closure of Elan?
I believe the death of Phil Williams in the ring (murder) scared them into a less violent approach.


Muppeteer, good to see you   <!-- s:rose: -->:rose:<!-- s:rose: -->

Back the @##$ up... someone was murdered in the ring?

WOW! I just read through most of this thread. I never saw all of this before. The rabbit hole just gets deeper. It's time for a TTI expose to happen.

Someone confirmed it to me in an email.


Utterly insane...

So what political factors allowed Elan to escape scrutiny for so long? What connections let them get away with murder?

bumps
Title: Re: Into the Belly of the Beast, the Comparison
Post by: Che Gookin on March 23, 2015, 11:03:59 PM
yeah this was ol' school fornits, my pre-moron/sociopath/retard phase.