Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

http://www.freestateproject.com

http://www.angelfire.com/ultra/ph_ck_elan_school


ain't much.. links to message/e-mail list


Paul St. John

Sure is a lot of talk about the law suits.  I just wanted to add, in case nobody has thought of it, that besides the residents suing, there is also a case for all the parents.  I cannot imagine a more clear-cut case of fraud.

.. don t know the statute of limitations on fraud myself.


Hell, there is no statute on murder.. too bad that doesn t apply to the murder of spirits, and minds.


Paul

It's all about a broken will.. That is what it comes down to.  That is what these programs operate on.  Most people here probably already know that.

The fucked up thing is that most other people don't .  I went to Daytop, Elan's predecessor.

Daytop kids, or clones, if you like, go to schools all over my area and preach to teens.  They stop a day in class, and have Daytop residents of status come in and talk to kids, in classes..  LOL!

Like they are the good guys, or they have some specail knowledge or something.


What exactly do they preach to all these classes, when they have no idea what they are talking about?  They are nothing more then either brainwashed or good actors, but that is the way it goes sometimes, I guess.

Hell, Elan got a commendation from the State for making a CD-Rom, that spread awareness of itself, as if spreading their stupidtity makes them great benefactors to society or something.

We all know.  We all post it here all the time.

Noone else does though.. or few anyway.. It s fucked up, I think, really.

A year or so after I got out of Daytop, I was working cooking food at a health fair, and,lol, Daytop had a booth there, from which they were "spreading awareness".

Can you imagine that?

Funniest fucking thing too.  When I was there, in daytop, there was this unhappy bitch named Lyn.  She went in there as one of the worst.. Obnoxious, and hard to control.  The counselors did not like her very much, and to be honest, neather did I!
But she broke quickly, and easily started becoming one of the "good guys"  She focussed more and more of her unhappiness into being an asshole for a "good cause", and then she was loved by the status, and counselors.. She was trust-worthy in their eyes.

Anyway, I saw her there.. The fucking bitch came up to buy food from me. I was nice to her.. I hadn t seen her in so long, and to be honest, never thought that I would ever see one of those people again.  I said," hey Lyn, what's up?  You a coordinator now?"  I knew she would be!! ( Feel bad for the residents who had her as a coordinator)  She very proudly said, "yes", as though she had some otherwordly greatness above me and everyone else in the vicinity.

Well, anyway, I had a huge line, and just asked her thos quesytions, as I fixxed her food.  LOL!!

Check this shit out!! The bitch then starts to confront me on the line, with my line full of customers, right behind her.  The lady I was working with could not even belive what she had witnessed.  She's like, " Who the fuck would say shit like that? "

I thought, " LOL! You shoulda been to Daytop!"


Hey Lynn, if you are out there, thank you for causing me five to ten minutes of less happiness then was possible, just to make yourself feel powerful.  Perhaps, someday, I will show up to your place of work to repay the favor.


I have always considerred myself a pretty nice guy, but as I watched that ugly Lynn walk away, all I could think was that I could not wait til that cloud that she is walking on falls right out from under her.


Paul St. John

Marijuana ruling smokes foes
By DAN RICE, Staff Writer
Adults can legally possess as much as a quarter pound of marijuana in their home, the Alaska Court of Appeals declared in an opinion released Friday.The opinion, which stemmed from an appeal in a Fairbanks case, called personal marijuana use in the home by an adult a right guaranteed by the state constitution. "With regard to possession of marijuana by adults in their home for personal use, (the law) must be interpreted to prohibit only the possession of 4 ounces or more of marijuana," wrote Court of Appeals Judge David Stewart in the conclusion of the unanimous decision. Friday's decision relied primarily on a controversial 1975 Alaska Supreme Court opinion rendered in Ravin v. State. Written by the late Fairbanks law icon Jay Rabinowitz, the opinion declared that adults can possess marijuana for personal use in their home because the state's interest in prohibiting them from doing so is not great enough to violate a citizen's right to privacy.

The appeals court declared that the Ravin decision was still the law despite a 1990 voter initiative that criminalized possession of all amounts of the drug. The court ruled that voters, who approved the criminalization measure by a 55-45 percent tally, did not have authority to change the state constitution. Friday's decision defined 4 ounces or less of marijuana as a personal-use amount that is permissible. Unless there's a successful appeal by the Attorney General's Office to the state Supreme Court, Friday's decision means that Alaska once again has the most liberal marijuana laws in the nation. The Supreme Court would essentially have to reverse itself to make it a crime again to possess 4 ounces or less of marijuana. Attorney General Gregg Renkes said in a press release that his office will petition the Supreme Court to hear an appeal. "Some of the court's language goes too far by drawing into question the constitutionality of the current law," Renkes said. The decision was made in the case of David Noy, 41, a North Pole man arrested at his Parkway Road house on July 27, 2001. The arrest occurred after a North Pole Police Department officer on patrol reported to other law enforcement that he could smell the odor of marijuana coming from Noy's residence, where Noy and a group of people were outside barbecuing salmon. After a debate about whether Noy would allow them in his home, officers searched Noy's house and found five immature plants and about 11 ounces of harvested marijuana in the form of buds, leaves and stalks. Officers put all the marijuana except the immature plants in a paper bag and sent it to the state's crime lab, according to background information contained in the Court of Appeals decision. But during trial, the prosecution never entered the bag into evidence, leaving the jury to rely on testimony and photographs to determine what was placed in the bag. After being instructed that the stalks of marijuana plants and fibers produced from the stalks do not count in determining the weight of marijuana, the jury found Noy not guilty of a charge of possessing more than 8 ounces of marijuana but guilty of a lesser charge of possessing less than 8 ounces.Renkes contends that District Court Judge Jane Kauvar improperly instructed the jury on how to measure the aggregate weight of marijuana, a mistake that allowed him to argue that he possessed less marijuana than he actually did. The personal use argument never should have been reached in the Noy case, Renkes said. In current statutes, 8 ounces of marijuana or more is considered to be an amount for commercial use, while anything less than 8 ounces is considered a personal use amount. But when the Legislature changed the marijuana statutes in light of the Ravin decision, 4 ounces was used as the dividing line between personal and commercial use. Friday's decision relied on the 4-ounce figure, claiming that the current marijuana statute must be interpreted to allow possession of up to 4 ounces of marijuana in the home. The decision dismissed Noy's misdemeanor conviction but allows the Fairbanks District Attorney's Office to retry the case if prosecutors think they can prove that Noy possessed more than 4 ounces of marijuana. He cannot be tried again for a charge of possessing more than 8 ounces because he has already been acquitted of that charge. Four ounces of weed carries a street value of about $1,200 to $1,600, said Sgt. Ron Wall, head of the Alaska Bureau of Alcohol and Drug Enforcement office in Fairbanks. "Hell, that would last a month or more," Wall said. Bill Satterberg, the victorious defense attorney who represented Noy, quipped that 4 ounces would last most of his clients "about a week; no, make that three days." While Noy's case is the first time a court with the clout of the Court of Appeals has upheld the Ravin decision, Noy is not the first defendant to argue that personal marijuana possession in the home is guaranteed by the state constitution as determined by the Ravin decision. In a June decision, Scott A. Thomas, another Satterberg client, convinced Fairbanks Superior Court Judge Richard Savell to throw out a misdemeanor pot conviction using the Ravin argument. The argument also worked for a defendant in a 1993 Ketchikan case. But since the 1990 voter initiative criminalized all marijuana possession, the Ravin argument has never made it past the trial-court level, preventing a high court from analyzing the conflict between Alaska's constitution and the state's marijuana laws. Satterberg, reached by phone in Luxembourg where he is meeting with clients and vacationing, said prosecutors have been diligent in keeping Ravin from reaching the state's appellate courts. When trial court judges dismissed cases on the Ravin issue in the past, state prosecutors have not appealed the decision to a higher court in an effort to prevent a new interpretation of the marijuana laws. He said it basically took 13 years for the right case to surface as a challenge to the 1990 voter initiative. "I think the state, from the state's perspective, made a very bad decision in prosecuting a case that probably should have been dismissed," Satterberg said of the Noy case.While the appeals court decision clarifies the issue of a statute that conflicts with the constitution, it also leaves many questions. Under current law, someone could possess as much as 4 ounces of pot in their home but could be arrested while transporting it there. "I think the next question that is going to arise out of this is your right to privacy in a vehicle if you're not using" marijuana, Satterberg said. The decision does allow someone to grow marijuana in their home, he said. Friday's decision applies only to Alaska law. Possession of all amounts of marijuana remains a crime under federal law, meaning that federal agents could still arrest someone for having small amounts of the drug in their home. Satterberg called the Noy opinion a confirmation of people's constitutional rights, regardless of their moral stance on marijuana. Gov. Frank Murkowski reacted differently. "Substance abuse continues to have a devastating impact on the people of Alaska and our communities," Murkowski said in a press release issued by his office. "It is regrettable that the Court of Appeals has, in essence, rejected the will of the people of Alaska who recriminalized the use of marijuana in a 1990 initiative." Reporter Dan Rice can be reached at [email protected] or 459-7503.

Elan Sux!

The victims of these programs, are not merey beaten once but twice.  I can imagin the effect that in can have as a person, especailly having this shit take place as a kid.  My place fuckingg sucked, and I know that there were others who had it much worse( though I kinda wish they had a ring in my place..lol)


First, you're beaten by the program, but then, life just goes on as nothing happenned, and no justice is served, it's like being beaten by society.  It's like the victims of these programs.. it's like we're some type of side project of the US.  Justice was never served.

I mean, when you look at the shit that people can sue for in this country, and the amount of money that they get.. almost any person who went to these programs would, or at least should have the right to sue,(AND WIN EASILY), these places for like 100 different torts and offenses each person.  If any of this shit happenned in the middle of some civilised street somewhere, it would be a whole another story.  Why?

Paul St. John

There was this one time, when everybody in the house was getting sick.  It was the same bug, and it was getting passed around to everybody.  I think that it may have started with this co-ordinator, Jen, who insisted on coming in while being sick, with what she belived to be bronchitis, and non-communicable( I suppose that the fact that nearly everyone in the house caught in, myself included, was a cooincidence).

It's only natural that we would all catch it, being packed like sardines into those morning, and afternoon meeting.  As a result of widespread illness throughout the house, there were more people absent in the house, then usual, and so a whole big thing went down, and blow aways were given, and speaches, etc., etc.

and a new rule was made that anyone out for even a single day, would now have to have a doctor's note..

.. so shortly after that, a girl was sick.. I can't remember who, but I do remember that she was one of the younger members, and so she was absent, and came in with a doctor's note.

She was questioneed by a counselor in front to the family( a female one whom I can't really remember)

The counselor was pushing to prove that the girl had actually been fine, and that her doctor had lied on the note, and was insinuating, that the poor girl manipulated him into doing it.

The gilr said something like " He's a doctor.  He wouldn't do that."

That was all the counselor needed.. That counselor.. that rogue rebel against reality, and peace, and happiness stood up there now giving a sermon againt doctors..
saying things along the lines of:


" What does a doctor care?  All doctors are evil.  He'll do anything you want, just to get more money form your parent's whom you also manipulate.."

" Maybe your doctor helps you manipulate your parents."

" You think a doctor cares what is true and what isn't"

" Doctors are dishonest"

lol.. and I think that she may have even said at one point that she thinks that the girl had contracts with her doctor



Ladies and gentelman.. There was no shred of evidence that any of this could've been the case.. This was a sick woman's imagination, BUT the kids didn.t notice that, and I hope that none of those guys or girls wanted to be doctors some day, because by the end of her srmon, she had every person in that place believing that doctors were evil..



As I listenned to this shit, tightly pressed inot my chair, motionless, military style( the approved way), I almost fell out of my seat.  Never before had I seen such hypocrisy as from the likes of this sick bitch, who traded in a drug addiction, for an addiction to cause problems wherever she could, in the name of sobriety.


Dishonest?
don't care about the truth?
Greedy?


"Have you looked in the mirror lately, you life-hating cunt?"


Paul St. John