Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Shelby on December 28, 2002, 09:52:00 PM
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Does anyone know of any girls who were forced to have an abortion in the program?
Shelby
[email protected]
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I heard of a girl in Straight St Pete who came in to intake bleeding and complaining of a miscarriage. The story goes that the wicked intake lady gave her a metal bucket and put her in a room. Disgusting. I couldn't prove it, but it is the terrible story I was told by a person who worked there at the time. So sad. So trajic.
So inhumane.
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Did you ever stop to think of CONFIDENTIALITY before you announced NAMES of people who had abortions on this board? Just because you put the last initial doesn't protect the identity of these people - especially for those who were there, and now know EXACTLY who you are referring to! How could you post an inconsiderate question such as this? Who gave you permission to VIOLATE people's privacy? Some people don't want the world to know their PRIVATE MEDICAL BUSINESS whether you think they were forced or not - and it isn't up to you to EXPOSE them - no matter how self-righteous your reasons. :flame: :flame: :flame:
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1. "Confidentiality" is the reason the program got away with forcing these girls to have abortions in the first place.
2. I don't need to protect anyone's identity from those who were in the program at the time. We obviously know about it since the victims were forced to talk about it in group.
3. Those who weren't in the program have no clue who I'm talking about, so the victim's identity is protected on that end.
4. This message board is hardly the "world".
5. You sound like you're still in Straight.
Shelby
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Did you ever stop to think of CONFIDENTIALITY before you announced NAMES of people who had abortions on this board? Just because you put the last initial doesn't protect the identity of these people - especially for those who were there, and now know EXACTLY who you are referring to! How could you post an inconsiderate question such as this? Who gave you permission to VIOLATE people's privacy? Some people don't want the world to know their PRIVATE MEDICAL BUSINESS whether you think they were forced or not - and it isn't up to you to EXPOSE them - no matter how self-righteous your reasons.
You know, this is getting old. I have been about as patient as humanly possible. I would suggest that anonymous, whoever YOU are, who posted to Shelby's topic anonymously using STRAIGHT INC overtones and styles to berate her, be advised that your continued harrassment of Shelby and others on this board has been duly noted. Why should people have to walk on egg shells? You may want to consider changing your agenda.
This is a free country, love it or leave it.
Thank you, MG8 :smokin:
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boy imagine my surprise after 20years and my first
time reviewing any antstraight web site to see my name and extremely personal information mentioned. i dont choose to mention my name but i can assure you i was not forced to have an abortion by straight or anyone else. I am sorry you had a rough time with straight and this is your personal crusande but i do not wish to be brought into it and resent my name being mentioned. Please understand not all of us had a horrible experience at straight and if we had that would be our responsibility to divulge not anyone elses.
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Even though I only posted first names, for what it's worth, I've edited them out. I'm sorry if I created any problems by having them there in the first place. I was assisting Wes Fager with his research into the doctors involved with Straight, not attempting to dig up anyone's personal business.
I know Wes would like to speak with you if you're so inclined. His email is [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected])
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Get indignant about this!!!!!!!!!
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Get indignant about what? Forced abortions or "breaking confidentiality" on this board?
Please be specific.. :grin:
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Hey anonymous, talk to Wes, it was his idea.
:wave:
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I never heard of anyone being forced to have an abortion in Atlanta. However, any young woman who was bleeding outside her normal period should have received an immediate medical evaluation. There are several types of abortion, ranging from threatened abortion--cervix closed w/bleeding (most amenable to treatment)to inevitable abortion--cervix open w/bleeding & visible uterine contents (requires dilatation & curettage).
[ This Message was edited by: hedwigfan on 2003-09-08 16:22 ]
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Shelby, NOT TRUE.
If someone knows that an individual was in Straight, that does not mean they know everything about them. First name and an initial and the knowledge that the person was there, is enough to reveal some very personal information to an employer, boyfriend, friend, family member, etc. who stumbles across this site.
THINK ABOUT IT.
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On 2003-09-08 16:21:00, hedwigfan wrote:
"I never heard of anyone being forced to have an abortion in Atlanta. However, any young woman who was bleeding outside her normal period should have received an immediate medical evaluation.
I know of two; one in Sarasota and one possible in The Seed in Ft. Lauderdale.
One day in Group, a girl who'd split and stayed gone for around a month or two got stood up by staff. While 20 years later I can't remember the exact words used to tell the story, this is what I remember.
They asked her about her boyfriend and why he was not in her best interest. They asked her if there was anything more she wanted to say about that and she said no. So they asked her about the pregnancy and abortion she'd just had. She still didn't want to talk about it, she just cried. So they asked her if she understood it was all her fault for getting pregnant in the first place and to say that the abortion had been the best thing to do. I don't remember what she said or how she said it. I just remember her crying and my realizing what the fuck these lunatics were talking about.
The other girl in The Seed was someone I knew prior to and after the Program. The prosedure was done in a hospital without the girl's consent or knowledge until after the fact. They told her there was something wrong and they had to perform some procedure. They didn't tell her they'd taken the baby till a few days later.
We're not talking about spontanious abortion here. We're talking about surgicaly removing a healthy baby against the mother's will.
I agree that no one should tell such information without the victim's permission. I wish both of these ladies would think more of the girls in these programs today and less about those people in their lives who can't stand the difficult moments. But it's not my choice.
You can lead a camel to water but you can't make it stink (any more than it already does)
-- Job
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous
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I do remember ... Kids of BC around 1996-97 that they were blasting and trying to coerce a girl into an abortion. Don't remember the name though. I might have split soon after?
My question for Shelby and Wes is what are you doing with the names anyhow. Without permission you can not legally print them in any type of media anyhow. The stories I can understand and they NEED to be, and SHOULD be told.
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On 2003-09-08 21:02:00, Antigen wrote:
"We're not talking about spontanious abortion here. We're talking about surgicaly removing a healthy baby against the mother's will.
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous"
You realize the courts would most likely define this as murder?
CL
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On 2003-09-09 05:47:00, ClayL wrote:
You realize the courts would most likely define this as murder?
CL
Yes they would. IF it were not done in the name of taming the savage teenager at the behest and under the protection of one most powerful political puppeteer the perpatrators would be burried under the jail.
Mel Sembler is a public figure. He and his merry little band of sadistic lunatics have abused the public trust again and again and again. As such, I think he's waved his right to any kind of consideration for his private business.
Consider this; in his legal complaint, he's essentially whining about having the fact that he had cancer exposed to the public, even though most people who knew about the pump and saw the ad were surprised to hear the news about the cancer from his own lawyer. Ok, it's a private and maybe embarrassing fact. But nothing really to be ashamed of. Prostate cancer is not a STD or anything. Just an unfortunate condition effecting a man's sex organs.
These people told my own father lies about me and, for a short while, turned even him against me. Through my mother (who I never really trusted to begin with, so it wasn't as big a deal) they told all of my old teachers, school-mates, pastor, neighbors, etc. horrible lies about me so that, when I finally did get out, I had almost no support whatever. Before I went in, people trusted me to babysit their kids, take on part time jobs and, had I finished high school and lived out my life, I would likely have had career type job offeres, endorsements to support scholarship applications; everything a kid needs to get a good start in life.
Instead, I had one family friend who was willing to rent me a room in her house for $50/wk and half the grocery bill. All the rest of my life; job, social life, plans for the future; I had to build from scratch asif I'd just landed from another country, all alone, without a friend or relative to count on.
I do not consider myself among the most agrievously harmed victims of the program the Melvin founded, perpetuated and illegally protected from proper legal sanctions. Far from it. I ducked and dodged, went along and avoided getting sat on, marathoned and so forth till I could permanently split.
How utterly hypocritical of Melvin to whine about this harmless little practical joke. Is that ad going to cost him his ambassadorship? A building contract? His seat on the BOD of the Holocaust Museum? Of course not! It was a harmless and, quite frankly, hillariously funny practical joke.
What that sadistic son of a bitch has done to the tens of thousands of us has been no joke. What he's doing now to everyone in this country and abroad with his unimaginable political and ecconomic clout is no joke.
Wicked men obey from fear, good men from love.
--Aristotle
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
American drug war P.O.W.
10/80 - 10/82
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
Anonymity Anonymous
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In 1987 my husband was a graduate of the seed program in fort lauderdale. the seed still tried to maintain controll over us after he graduated. I had gotten pregnant with my second child and the seed was so manipulating that they wanted me to abort. libbi told me that my baby was not a living thing that it was just a little jelly and that if i didn't abort my husband would be back using drugs. what bull. my husband had been a graduate for 4 years at this time. i told them to screw themselves. we moved back to cleveland and my little jelly turned into a beautiful 16 yr. old. great kid. oh, by the way the seed cannot credit themselves with her achievements. they wanted nothing for her but death.
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Most of the girls that I was in there with, including myself, stopped menstrating after 1 or 2 months of being in there and didn't restart until AFTER we were out (in my case that was 23 months later)!!!!! Think about that for a second....a group of about 150 girls and almost ALL of them spontaneously stop having periods when they come in?!?!?!?!?! What kinds of physical and emotional stresses have to occur for something like that to happen??
The trouble with practical jokes is that very often they get elected.
Will Rogers, American humorist, political commentator and cowboy philosopher
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That's odd. In Sarasota, most girls stopped for the first couple of months then resumed. That's common in jails and prisons, too. The only other time I haven't been regular as clockwork was around the end of a very abusive romantic relationship.
That which does not kill you can make you stronger, but I really never needed to be this strong.
Scott Wagner
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A girl in Plymouth Straight was pregnant at her intake. She was 14. I don't remember the particulars of what they said in group that day, but they definitely did not want her to continue the pregnancy. She got the abortion and had a really hard time afterwards. I very clearly recall her trying to talk about it in group and the female staff member yelling at her that she didn't have the right to regrets because "YOU signed the consent form, YOU."
I wonder if that consent form was much like the "voluntary" one we all signed saying we wanted to be in Straight.
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My God, I hope that story is not true.....the thought of that just makes my gut twist.I could visualize in my head though a staff member twisting something like that around and even making a person feel a billion times worse and then allowing them no support at all. I am not gonna twist this matter all around as I don't know if it really happened or if it did all the facts about it but, the thought of it absolutely horrifies me. I am not insinuating that you are lying about it....see now I am just getting pissed about it. If this did happen exactly the way it was described....God help the peron/people who did this because I sure as hell would not want to carry that around with me for the rest of my life or someday stand in judgment in front of the biggest staff member of them all (God)!!!
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You don't know me to know it's true, but anyone who was in group in Plymouth in late 1989 can verify.
I don't believe in any specific god (and not at all in judgement day) but I doubt that staff member sleeps well at night. She probably had herself convinced she was doing the right thing at the time. Sick, sick, sick.
As for the woman it happened to, I hope she's ok today. I have no idea.
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who knows what was slipped into the koolaid. maybe that was the reason for everyone having their periods stop. the stress alone would do it.
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You know,
:sad: I sometimes have doubts about going to meet up with them attorneys on the 29th of December who are interested in suing Straight. I think to myself, 'Christ, that was twenty years ago, it's probably just another hopeless dream about to dissipate like a fart in the wind'. I think to myself, "hell, maybe I deserved this treatment, or I am making too much out of what happened to me'.
But when I think of young women being made to get ABORTIONS, my doubts go RIGHT out the door. Them dirty bastards (the Sembler's and their cronies) need to be "brought to justice" (Bush's words), they had NO right to take away anybodies baby by killing them or adopting them out, it was sooooo damned wrong. Good God my heart aches thinking about that.
Thank you all for helping me to restore my need to do what I can to prepare my testimony for the 29th. It's been there all along, it just seems like all I do at times is just go through the motions in life. I'll be OK.
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you go on the 29th and stand up for what you believe in. these people need to be punished. sometimes you only can hurt people like this in their pocket. thats what they care about most. obviously they don't care about human life. this stuff has gone on for too long, since the early 70s and probably still continues. it all started with mr. barker. maybe some how you'll help someone else from being victimized in the long run. most would love to see these criminals get theirs. best wishes.
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I only keep my name out of the picture because of people I don't really know. Others who come on here have had the unfortunate oppurtunity of meeting me, they know who I am and that is mostly what matters here.
I choose not to reveal my name most of the time for medical anonymity, and because these topics can be sensitive, and because I like to play batman sometimes and run in the shadows or whatever.
I am not the only one who sometimes has sick fantasies about going back to that place and being that way. Herein lies the problem with itself. Society is not run on a daily basis the way Straight ran itself. This is where the responsibility of medical malpractice lies. Straight purported to build up the 'addict' with skills to help them cope with true world society. Instead Straight made its own little world, just like Ginger wrote in that it cut itself and its children off from all neighbors, jobs, family; away from anything to do with the laws of the government and HRS even, not to mention any moral laws. You can't incorporate any Straight laws or steps into society because they are two separate entities opposing one another.
Abortion is up to, I believe, the male and the female who conceived the child. If it is a facade of 'consented' abortion or a forced abortion (ie: Straight Inc. says have the abortion) then I believe it is wrong. Wrong as in murder. Aahh, the burden of proof: I wish someone would come forward and file charges against people at their Straight for murder charges in abortion. Shit would hit the fan on that one, and there is no 'statute of limitations' on murder.
One thing I do not agree with is in the anonymity thing. If someone feels that it is okay to post my name up here then so be it, but fuck whoever does in the meantime. Fortunately I have only given my name to those I trust who are active in the cause and not merely standersby looking for attention while willing to give their opinion on shit they shouldn't be especially coming on to a Straight survivors site looking for the non existence of any people who still believe in Straight.
So, on that note because I only wish that they will burn with hatred for me, even though they probably care less:
Matthew Belski
Kevin Belski
Peter Beer
Steven Beer
Christina Woodard
Richard Hicks
John Myers
Mrs. Gaye
Mary Anne Ford
Thomas D.
Fuck all of you self serving bastards that had a hand in developing my depression and PTSD !!!!!
If anyone was ever pressured into having an abortion then the next step is sometimes easiest even if delayed. I know that justice will prevail, I think its easy to see that we all know it and believe and can see that the end is coming where justice shall have its say. That day will be bright and the schysm created in the first place shall be healed and those who created it shall come undone. A double life will be as one. Justice does this.
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Thats just crazy. I bet theres alot of things that happened I wasnt even aware of.
Hooray for cia brainwashing techniques
I could picture it in my mind....
Girl stands up starts crying....
Staff: Want to share with the group?
Girl: Mumbles some shit and before the word abortion is done..
Staff: Sit the fuck down and shut the fuck up
(people start motivating to just rip into her ass...because they would look good for it)
Staff : "No, start a song"
"I am straight hear me roar.."
And its never mentioned again after she spends a few days in time out.
[ This Message was edited by: Therion on 2003-12-30 00:14 ]