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Topics - SEKTO

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Tacitus' Realm / Koran Burner
« on: September 08, 2010, 09:38:59 PM »
The Florida pastor who is planning to burn a pile of Korans this weekend runs a church that has established a variety of cult-like rules for individuals studying to become ministers, according to the group’s “rulebook.” ... -you-think

Feed Your Head / The Family International is restructuring/Reboot
« on: May 31, 2010, 09:36:23 PM »
What follows is an excerpt from the latest General Newsletter (GN) that was released by the Family International.  This does not necessarily mean that The Family is disbanding per se. They are retaining their name and core beliefs; however, the command structure will be altered a la RNR. The point this note highlights is that there'll be no more FD/MM/FM: in other words if you're a member of the Family, you're a member of the Family: not a two-letter label. It's a win/win for the Family now; they'll still have no accountability, yet still receive their tithe money. I say it's a cunning move on their part.

Call it what you like, but this essentially (ostensibly) marks the disbanding of The Family.


There is not much of a "group" left.

The Reboot is the biggest change in The Family's history.

They can have sex with outsiders now, for example.

Young people are now encouraged to go to school to get a good education.

Whatever people feel they want to do is now supported and encouraged.

No more mandatory communal living.

They can have friends outside of the Family and work with other Christians and churches.

They no longer consider themselves the elite, as far as Christianity is concerned. They're remaking themselves now as just another church, or denomination.

If people want to be full time still, that's their choice but it doesn't make them any more special.

They are to be inclusive, not exclusive.

They are saying that they have so many wrong attitudes that they need to get rid of to help them accept everyone.

"—All who have
made the commitment to follow Jesus' teachings and example, and who are
living that commitment, are Jesus' disciples, whether they are members

of the Family or not.

—We will no longer have membership
categories. We won't have labels whereby some members are categorized as
"Family disciples" and others are not; or that suggest that some are

living a full-time example of discipleship and others are not, or that
some are more or less committed or obedient in spirit; or that label
whether someone is giving their all to the Lord or serving Jesus
full-time or part-time. (The details of this change will be fully

explained in "Membership.")

—The terms "disciple" and
"discipleship" will no longer be used in connection with a category of
Family membership (as there will be no categories), or to define a set

of lifestyle requirements. When "disciple" or "discipleship" is used in
Family publications, this will refer to an individual's personal
commitment to follow Jesus...

—Discipleship is not an isolated,

once-in-a-lifetime happening, but a spiritual journey, a faith journey.
It involves daily choices and actions to abide in Jesus, and to let Him
abide in us, to be led, fed, and cleansed by His Word, to operate under

the influence of His Spirit and love, to seek Him first and yield to His
will for our lives, to obey Him to the best of our ability, to testify
of His love through our words and actions, to bear fruit that glorifies


Answering the call of discipleship is a personal choice, a
personal commitment. Discipleship is a journey. We're each at different
stages of the journey, different points along the path of discipleship.

Some are far along the path of discipleship; some are just getting
started on this journey of faith and spiritual growth. But all of us who
are following Jesus, in whatever ways we are called to serve, are His


(Reboot 04: Blueprint for the Future)"

Daytop Village / DAYTOP Forum rules
« on: May 17, 2010, 05:14:25 PM »
Rules and Policies of the DAYTOP Forum


1. Stay on topic - When posting in this forum, please pay attention to the topic heading. Discussions that stray off-topic, yet are still Elan related, may be split off into several separate topics. Discussions that have nothing to do with Elan at all may be either deleted or moved to a more appropriate section of Fornits.

2. Personal Attacks - Personal attacks against other forum posters are not allowed. This is not retroactive. Should you verbally "wish ill" on a person outside this forum, for example, and that person then becomes a poster on this forum, your old posts do not suddenly constitute a rule violation. You will, however, from that point on, be expected to at least be civil towards that poster for the purposes of furthered discussion with all involved parties. There is a time and a place for online "flame wars" (such as "Open Free for All"), but it is not here. If you can't hold it in, take it elsewhere.

3. Contact Information - While you are certainly free to post your own email address, phone number, or contact information, it is not permitted to post the contact information of other people... even staff. The exception to this is the case of a person or entity that is a public figure (having put his/her self into the public domain) and for whom contact information is already widely available.


1. Responsibility. You are responsible for your own words. This forum does not attempt to arbitrate claims or determine what is true and what is false. Please do not write to us privately asking us to do so; the answer will be no. The veracity of any given matter is left up to individual readers to decide.

2. Alternatives and Penalties. If you do not wish to abide by the above set of rules, you are free to discuss whatever you wish in the unmoderated sections of Fornits. Posts that violate the rules may be deleted or moved to other sections of Fornits. Repeated flagrant violation of these rules may be grounds for being banned from from this particular section of Fornits.

3. Amendments. Other rules may be added in time as needed. Such amendments will not be applied retroactively (to older posts). Any changes to these rules and policies will be announced in a new thread.

By posting in this forum you agree to all the above rules and policies.

Feed Your Head / Don’t talk to aliens, warns Stephen Hawking
« on: April 25, 2010, 02:53:38 PM » ... 107207.ece

(Hawking) suggests that aliens might simply raid Earth for its resources and then move on: “We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn’t want to meet. I imagine they might exist in massive ships, having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonise whatever planets they can reach.”

Open Free for All / Lois Wilson Story
« on: April 23, 2010, 02:43:06 PM »
Airing Sunday, April 25, 2010 at 9/8c

A true story of the enduring love between Lois Wilson,
cofounder of Al-Anon and her husband, Bill Wilson,
cofounder of Alcoholics Anonymous.

After Bill finds personal salvation by overcoming his alcoholism and founding Alcoholics Anonymous, Lois struggles with isolation and resentment, feeling he did it without her. But then she discovers other men and women, wives and husbands experiencing the same feelings, inspiring her to form Al-Anon. ... reId=10001

Tacitus' Realm / For the voyeur who wants to make a quick buck
« on: April 18, 2010, 09:21:48 AM »
Behold "internet eyes," in which you get paid to spy on your neighbor if you can catch them doing wrong.

Sea ORG Refuge / Scientology on CNN
« on: April 04, 2010, 04:33:59 PM »

Daytop Village / L. Holloway-Rivera
« on: April 02, 2010, 10:43:54 AM »
L. Holloway-Rivera must be the "dildo dealing holloway" who is mentioned in another thread.  

My source has confirmed that what was described in yesterday's post from formerdaytopemployee is accurate, and that the three persons (Priscilla, Troy, and Holloway) who were mentioned in yesterday's post, are no longer in DAYTOP's employ.

I did some simple Googling and here's what I've  found so far:

Independent Consultant for Passion Parties, Inc.,the premier sensual products company in the United States and Canada. We are celebrating 10 years of bringing quality sensual products to multitudes of people. Our exclusive line of products are designed to encourage intimacy between partners.

Sensual aids and toys are more popular than ever. Yet many people need or want to be discreet about purchasing such products. Through in-home parties, we bring the value of product knowledge, education, and confidentiality simply not found in the retail environment.

Look lower on the page and you will see that she is also a member of the Substance Abuse Counselor Network.  I think we have a match.

So DAYTOP, until very recently, had in its employ a "counselor" who, it is alleged, was physically abusive with clients, and who is/was running a sex-toy business "on the side."

An Executive Director of Passion Parties, and Assistant Director of Millbrook under Chris Ratel, no less.  

I'm sure that the Monsignor would appreciate that kind of behavior, coming from a person who staffs his organization.  

Wonderful. ... ccess.html

See also:

There is one mention of L. Holloway-Rivera in this text, from when she was one of the chairs for the Taconic Region PTA.  She is described as specializing in "Substance Abuse/Juvenile Protection" for the Poughkeepsie School District.

News Items / Area 51 vets break silence: Sorry, but no space aliens
« on: April 01, 2010, 07:31:43 PM » ... ts28m.html

VANCOUVER, Wash. — After nearly five decades, guys like James Noce finally get to tell their stories about Area 51.

Yes, that Area 51.

The one that gets brought up when people talk about secret Air Force projects, crashed UFOs, alien bodies and, of course, conspiracies.

The secrets, some of them, have been declassified.

Noce, 72, and his fellow Area 51 veterans around the country now are free to talk about doing contract work for the CIA in the 1960s and '70s at the arid, isolated Southern Nevada government testing site.

Their stories shed some light on a site shrouded in mystery; classified projects still are going on there. It's not a big leap from warding off the curious 40 or 50 years ago, to warding off the curious who now make the drive to Area 51.

The veterans' stories provide a glimpse of real-life government covert operations, with their everyday routines and moments of excitement.

Noce didn't seek out publicity. But when contacted, he was glad to tell what it was like.

"I was sworn to secrecy for 47 years. I couldn't talk about it," he says.

In the 1960s, Area 51 was the test site for the A-12 and its successor, the SR-71 Blackbird, a secret spy plane that broke records at documented speeds that still have been unmatched. The CIA says it reached Mach 3.29 (about 2,200 mph) at 90,000 feet.

But after September 2007, when the CIA displayed an A-12 in front of its Langley, Va., headquarters as part of the agency's 60th birthday, much of the secrecy of those days at Area 51 fell away.

Advance warning to UFOlogists: Sorry, although Noce and other Area 51 vets say they saw plenty of secret stuff, none make claims about aliens.


Secrets included payroll

But on to the secrecy part.

Noce remembers always getting paid in cash, signing a phony name to the receipt, during his several years of working security at the site. It was, in CIA parlance, "a black project."

Noce says he has no paperwork showing that he worked at Area 51 for the CIA. He says that was common. Others who got checks say they came from various companies, including Pan American World Airways.

But Noce is vouched for by T.D. Barnes, of Henderson, Nev., founder and president of Roadrunners Internationale, membership 325. Barnes is the one who says he got checks from Pan Am, for whom he had never worked.

Roadrunners is a group of Area 51 vets including individuals affiliated with the Air Force, CIA, Lockheed, Honeywell and other contractors.

For the past 20 years, they'd meet every couple of years at reunions they kept clandestine. Their first public session was last October at a reunion in Las Vegas at the Atomic Testing Museum.

As age creeps up on them, Barnes, 72, an Area 51 radar specialist, wants the work the vets did to be remembered.

And Barnes himself has someone quite credible to vouch for him: David Robarge, chief historian for the CIA and author of "Archangel: CIA's Supersonic A-12 Reconnaissance Aircraft."

Robarge says about Barnes, "He's very knowledgeable. He never embellishes."

Barnes says that the way membership in the Roadrunners grew was by one guy who worked for the CIA telling about another buddy who worked at Area 51, and so on. Barnes says other Area 51 vets vouched for Noce.

Noce was a 1955 Vancouver High grad who went right into the Air Force and was trained in radar.

Leaving the service in 1959, he worked as a produce manager for the Safeway in Camas, 17 miles east of Vancouver.

Sometime in late 1961, Noce got a phone call at the grocery store. It was from a buddy of his from the Air Force days, who now worked for the CIA.

"He knew I had classified clearance from working at the radar sites," remembers Noce. "He asked me how would I like to live in Las Vegas."

Noce agreed to drive to Las Vegas and call "a guy" who worked for "the agency."

Comings and goings

And so Noce began doing security.

Most of the time, it was routine stuff.

On Monday mornings, a Lockheed Superconstellation would fly in from the "Skunk Works" in Burbank, Calif., bringing engineers and others who were working on the A-12. They'd stay there during the week and return home on weekends.

Skunk Works was the nickname for Lockheed's Advanced Development Projects, which had the A-12 contract.

The routine stuff included checking badges and making sure nobody had weapons or cameras. Security workers also made sure only those with proper clearance would witness a test flight.

And what a sight it was.

According to the CIA, its late former chief Richard Helms recalled visiting Area 51 and watching a midnight test flight of an A-12.

"The blast of flame that sent the black, insect-shaped projectile hurtling across the tarmac made me duck instinctively. It was as if the devil himself were blasting his way straight from hell," said Helms, according to former CIA Director Gen. Michael Hayden.

Other times, the routine got very exciting.

Noce remembers when "Article 123," as one of the A-12s was called, crashed on May 24, 1963, after the plane stalled near Wendover, Utah. The pilot ejected and survived.

Noce says he was among those who flew to the crash site in a giant cargo plane loaded with several trucks. They loaded everything from the crash into the trucks.

He remembers that a local deputy had either witnessed the crash or had quickly arrived at the scene. There also was a family on a vacation car trip who had taken photos.

"We confiscated the camera, took the film out," says Noce. "We just said we worked for the government."

He says the deputy and the family were told not to talk to anybody about the crash, especially the press.

"We told them there would be dire consequences," Noce says. "You scared them."

As an added incentive, he says, the CIA arrived with a briefcase full of cash.

"I think it was like 25 grand apiece, for the sheriff and the family," says Noce.

Robarge says of cash payments to cover things up, "It was common practice."

Noce also remembers providing security in 1962 as a disassembled A-12 was trucked along back roads from Burbank to Area 51.

At one point, a Greyhound bus traveling in the opposite direction grazed one of the trailers. Wrote Robarge, "Project managers quickly authorized the payment of nearly $5,000 for damage to the bus so no insurance or legal inquiry would take place ... "

Stories about aliens

About the aliens.

Noce and Barnes say they never saw anything connected to UFOs.

Barnes believes the Air Force and the "Agency" didn't mind the stories about alien spacecraft. They helped cover up the secret planes that were being tested.

On one occasion, he remembers, when the first jets were being tested at what Muroc Army Air Field, later renamed Edwards Air Force Base, a test pilot put on a gorilla mask and flew upside down beside a private pilot.

"Well, when this guy went back, telling reporters, 'I saw a plane that didn't have a propeller and being flown by a monkey,' well, they laughed at this guy — and it got where the guys would see [test pilots] and they didn't dare report it because everybody'd laugh at them," says Barnes.

Noce says he quite liked working at Area 51.

He got paid $1,000 a month (about $7,200 in today's dollars). Weekdays he lived for free at the base in admittedly utilitarian housing — five men assigned to a one-story house, sharing a kitchen and bathroom.

Something that all Area 51 vets remember about living at the base, he says, was the great food.

"They had these cooks come up from Vegas. They were like regular chefs," Noce remembers. "Day or night, you could get a steak, whatever you wanted."

Lobster was flown in regularly from Maine. A jet, sent across the country to test its engines, would bring back the succulent payload.

On weekends, Noce and other contracted CIA guys would drive to Las Vegas.

They rented a pad, and in the patio plumbed in a bar with storage for two kegs of beer. It was a great time, barbecuing steaks and having parties, Noce says.

Noce has two pieces of proof from his Area 51 days: faded black-and-white snapshots taken surreptitiously.

One shows him in 1962 in front of his housing unit at Area 51. The other shows him in front of what he says is one of two F-105 Thunderchiefs whose Air Force pilots overflew Area 51 out of curiosity. The pilots were forced to land and were told that a no-fly zone meant just that.

Noce worked at Area 51 from early 1962 to late 1965. He returned to Vancouver and spent most of his working life as a longshoreman.

Noce remembers once in recent years talking with fellow retired longshoreman pals and telling them stories about Area 51. When they didn't believe him, he says, "Well, there was nothing I could do to prove anything."

Collecting memories

Mary Pelevsky, a University of Nevada visiting scholar, headed the school's Nevada Test Site Oral History Project from 2003 to 2008. Some 150 people were interviewed about their experiences during Cold War nuclear testing. Area 51 vets such as Barnes also were interviewed.

The historian says it was difficult to verify stories because of secrecy at the time, cover stories, memory lapses and — sometimes — misrepresentations.

But, she says, "I've heard this cloak-and-dagger stuff, and you say, 'No way.' Then you hear enough and begin to realize some of these stories are true."

In October, Noce and his son, Chris, of Colorado, drove to Las Vegas for that first public reunion of the Area 51 vets. He and his old buddies remembered the days.

"I was doing something for the country," Noce says about those three years in the 1960s. "They told me, 'If anything should ever come up, anyone asks, 'Did you work for the CIA?' Say, 'Never heard of them.' But [my buddies] know."

Feed Your Head / Aspie assessment quiz
« on: March 28, 2010, 01:09:08 PM »
Hi Aspie and NT friends.  When you have 10 minutes, do the test and share the score, if you care to.  I'm just curious as to the reliability and validity of this
quiz, and where all of you fit in.

My scores:

Your Aspie score: 127 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 86 of 200

You are very likely an Aspie

Feed Your Head / NHNZ documentary project
« on: March 28, 2010, 11:23:12 AM »
Hi all.  Lately I've been talking a bit with a New Zealand production company called NHNZ, who have tentatively invited me to participate in a documentary that they are making in which the experiences of ex-members of various abusive groups will be featured.  I have been asked to potentially talk about my experiences as a part of DAYTOP, and the impact that the place has had on my life and thinking.  Also, I have been asked to pass the email address of my contact along to other survivors who I have had contact with, so that they might share their stories too.  I have decided at this time to post this information to fornits.  NHNZ is the same production company that makes this show:

The woman's name is Sina Walker and it's a legitimate project.  You can write to her at:

[email protected]

Want to do something to get some international focus on Elan?  Here's your chance.

Seeya later,


The Melting Pot / ‘Holy Ghost’ relocates his flock to Montana?
« on: March 26, 2010, 04:41:07 PM » ... 002e0.html

===Begin Quote===
A religious group led by a man who claims to be the Holy Ghost has moved to
the Fromberg area after a brief stay in a small Idaho town where residents
protested the group’s building plans.
Their Fromberg neighbors are wary of the group, and law enforcement
officials have been notified of the group’s activities in Utah and Idaho.
Members of the Church of the Firstborn and General Assembly of Heaven had
fled to Idaho from Utah last year after their large home in a Salt Lake City
suburb was raided by federal officials investigating claims of child sexual
abuse and assassination threats against President Barack Obama, George W.
Bush and Thomas S. Monson, president of The Church of Jesus Christ of
Latter-day Saints.
[Terrill Dalton] described a two-day fast that ended with a vision of Jesus
Christ, who visited him several times in the following days. It was during
one of these visits that he said he was told he was the Holy Ghost and the
father of Jesus Christ.
===End Quote===

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