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Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Reddit TroubledTeens on April 09, 2013, 02:53:57 AM

Title: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about Elan
Post by: Reddit TroubledTeens on April 09, 2013, 02:53:57 AM
http://www.greenwichtime.com/news/article/RFK-Jr-could-testify-at-Skakel-trial-4408079.php

RFK Jr. could testify at Skakel trial
David Hennessey
Updated 11:51 pm, Sunday, April 7, 2013

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    In this Oct. 24, 2012 file photo, Michael Skakel listens during a parole hearing at McDougall-Walker Correctional Institution in Suffield, Conn. (AP Photo/Jessica Hill, Pool, File) Photo: Jessica Hill, Associated Press / POOL FR125654 AP
   

One of Michael Skakel's most vocal and powerful supporters and a member of the Kennedy family is one of dozens of witnesses who could testify at Skakel's upcoming habeas corpus trial, according to an updated witness list.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr., one of more than 50 names disclosed last week on the updated list, has maintained since Skakel's 2002 murder conviction that Skakel, a Kennedy cousin, did not kill his Belle Haven neighbor Martha Moxley in 1975. Skakel is serving 20 years to life at McDougall-Walker Correctional Institution in Suffield for the crime.

The witness list -- which includes investigators in the case, members of the Skakel family and former suspects -- was filed in state Superior Court in the Rockville section of Vernon.

Also filed in that court last week was a disclosure by Hubert Santos, Skakel's attorney, indicating that Santos will call an expert to testify about Elan, the Maine school and treatment center Skakel attended in the late 1970s. Skakel allegedly confessed to Moxley's murder to classmates while at Elan. The expert is another component of Skakel's defense strategy in an attempt to prove Mickey Sherman, Skakel's former attorney, did not competently defend Skakel in 2002.

The habeas corpus trial, a legal proceeding through which a prisoner can challenge their imprisonment, is the latest attempt to win Skakel's freedom. The trial, scheduled to begin April 16 in Rockville, will focus on the ways in which Sherman allegedly fell short in his defense of the 52-year-old Skakel, thus depriving Skakel of his right to effective assistance of counsel. Skakel is the nephew of Robert F. Kennedy's widow, Ethel.

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. attended Skakel's 2002 trial and testified on his cousin's behalf during a 2007 hearing.

He also published a lengthy piece in The Atlantic in 2003 titled "A Miscarriage of Justice," defending Skakel and arguing his indictment was the result of an inflamed media.

In addition to Kennedy, the latest witness list -- which has more than 10 additional names compared to a list disclosed earlier this year -- includes Skakel's brother Thomas, once a suspect in the murder, Mark Fuhrman, the former Los Angeles police detective who fingered Skakel as Moxley's killer in his 1998 book "Murder in Greenwich," Frank Garr, who worked as an investigator on the case, and Sherman.

The trial could also feature prior testimony by Tony Bryant, Adolph Hasbrouck and Burton Tinsley. Bryant implicated Hasbrouck and Tinsley in Moxley's murder in an interview with an investigator.

One of the new names disclosed in the updated witness list is Richard J. Ofshe, a California doctor and expert witness called to testify about the Elan School.

Ofshe was a member of a research group that won a Pulitzer Prize for an expose of the drug-rehabilitation program Synanon, which founded the tradition of "aggressive, residential treatment," in which Elan School partook, according to court documents.

Ofshe, who has qualified as an expert on interrogation methods in court proceedings on more than 350 occasions, has completed extensive work on the "extreme influence" organizations like Elan have on their students, according to court documents.

The Elan program was "psychologically intensive, brutalizing and physically assaultive," Ofshe states in a letter filed in court. That environment is one that jurors at the 2002 trial needed to better understand, he wrote.

"It [is] my opinion that the services of an expert on this sort of complex and unusual influence environment were necessary to educate jury members so that they could intelligently evaluate the significance of Michael Skakel's shift from repeated flat-out denials of his having any involvement in the death of Martha Moxley to his subsequent response that he might have killed Martha," but didn't have any memory of the crime, he wrote.

"Without fully appreciating the exceptionally coercive, highly organized and focused environment into which Mr. Skakel was placed it would have been extremely difficult if not impossible for a lay person to adequately comprehend the disorganized factual testimony about the nature of influence and control at Elan," he added.

Family members of Gregory Coleman, Skakel's classmate at Elan, are included on the latest witness list.

Skakel's defense filed a motion last week requesting that the court order attorney John Regan, of Rochester, N.Y., to testify about conversations he had with the now-dead Coleman, once his client.

Court documents indicate Skakel's defense believes Regan has information regarding Coleman's credibility, but that a court order is required to make Regan testify because of attorney-client privilege.

The period from April 16 to April 26 has been reserved for the trial in state Superior Court in Rockville.

[email protected]; 203-625-4428

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More Information
Potential witnesses for hearing in Michael Skakel case

Tony Bryant (prior testimony)
Barbara Bryant (prior testimony)
Elizabeth Coleman
Mary Coleman
Vito Collucci (prior testimony and live testimony)
Peter Coomaraswamy
Esme Dick
James Dowdle
Kevin Edwards
Richard Emanuel
Wright Ferguson
Rick Fisher
Michael Fitzpatrick
Mark Fuhrman
Frank Garr (prior testimony and live testimony)
Cliff Grubin (prior testimony)
David Grudberg
Adolph Hasbrouck (prior testimony)
Margie Walker Hauer
Richard Hoffman (prior testimony and live testimony)
Everette James (prior testimony)
Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. (prior testimony and live testimony)
Len Levitt (prior testimony)
Michael Meredith (prior testimony)
Crawford Mills (deceased, prior testimony)
Charles Morganti, Jr. (prior testimony)
James Murphy
Ronald Murphy
Richard J. Ofshe
Dennis Ossorio
Rick Pagnani
Graham Pettingill
John Regan
Betsy Reis
Al Robbins
Stephen Seeger
Charles Seigan (prior testimony and live testimony)
Michael Sherman (prior testimony and live testimony)
David Skakel (prior testimony)
John Skakel (prior testimony)
Julie Skakel (prior testimony)
Rushton Skakel Jr. (prior testimony)
Stephen Skakel (prior testimony)
Thomas Skakel
John Simpson (prior testimony)
Jack Solomon
Burton Tinsley (prior testimony)
Michael Udvardy (prior testimony and live testimony)
Neal Walker
Susan Wandzilak
Carl Wold (prior testimony)
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: YV23 on April 10, 2013, 01:43:20 PM
Mickey Sherman put a cop on the jury. That's evidence of inadequate consul.

I notice this Santos guy was smart enough to keep Elan people off the witness list and out of the trial for this long

If they're trying to pass off Tony Bryant again, I predict a complete fail
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Anonymous on April 11, 2013, 10:16:07 PM
Santos did the first and most important things right, he kept this out of the media and he kept Elan people out of it

I wonder why there isn't a stste witness list?
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Che Gookin on April 11, 2013, 11:20:07 PM
Probably wants to keep the witnesses from being harassed by Elan alumni.  Don't be going all rage cannon on me, yall know its true..

Btw.. protip: Someone has been sent a fax about me to HEAL. I traced it back to the sender and I'm pretty sure I narrowed it down to a short list of one as to who exactly sent the fax about me and who most likely is sending the faxes about art and danny.

It's not an elan survivor.

You guys are getting played by a sorry assed sociopath who is laughing his ass off at you.

I won't say who it is, but again... it's not an elan survivor.

Please ignore these faxes and please try to fix the damage in your community.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: liarsexposed on April 11, 2013, 11:43:41 PM
Well said
You are right
It's no secret who this person is
But this whole thing begins and ends with Sharon and Mark
I have a part in it.
I see an end to it as well
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Troublemaker on April 11, 2013, 11:46:07 PM
mess with a state witness and you'll land in jail. That's not fornits, it's real life

I've narrowed the list down to Lee Goldman with the Heal faxes. She's a snake
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Ruaraidh. on April 12, 2013, 07:59:44 PM
Lee will now commit suicide and it's all your fault

She is a little girl and a sweet little blossom and you've now pushed her to the window ledge

DON'T JUMP LEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!

You murderous bastards
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on April 16, 2013, 08:01:13 PM
Yeh I never thought Skakel was guilty - just by the words that he alledgedly uttered to make the beatings stop. And then of course all the other witnesses who heard those words, had no idea they were being manipulated by the directors who were running that inquisition.   the alledged confession of Yeh maybe I did -I don't know ,I don't remember uttered just to make the beatings stop hardly seems to be, at least to me an admisson of Yes I killed Martha Moxley.

Sure the children and adults that were witnessing this horrific beat down and insane interogation of the most coercive - yeh I wasn't there but my god folks I saw many a twisted elan confrontational no win for the accused game played  during my time  at Elan , so  yes I can imagine what Mike went thru . Hell they use to keep the house up past 11:00 pm until some one confessed to a certain deed . I mean hours past ,they (ricci and directors ,Kruglik ,gottlieb and MCCann) loved the sleep deprivation aspect of their sadistic torture cult  amongst all the other little toys that they had in their sadistic tool box of pain  that was elan. Any way I digress.

So to reinforce the alleged confession  for the ones witnessing this debacle -it goes from maybe ,I don't know , I don't remember to a sign that Mike had to wear - confront me as to why I killed my ....oh jeez those directors and Ricci just pushed the train right on down the tracks. Yet what kills me is if they actually believed any truth to his confession -Ricci or the directors is why didn't they go to the cops right then and there. did they really believe that his coerced confession was true , shoot a blind man could answer that.

So all those kids grow up into fine outstanding humanbeings and then one day some one calls them up and asks -like Frank Garr hey so and so  were you in Elan with Mike Skakel and did you witness him confessing to killing Martha Moxley - oh the cobwebs get brushed away and the stars come out at night and yes the Elaian says yeh as a matter of fact I remember something like that why yes indeed hell they made him weaqr a sign oh what was it oh Yeh confront me why I killed my neighbor.

Ah yes the manipulations of the Directors as they railroaded that kid Mike into confessing to nothing- into well he did it  cause look we got him wearing a sign . now for the out sider who never experienced Elan -they would not know that all the kids who witnessed Mike get the living daylights beaten out of him were also in this high pressured ruled by fear and the Directors were gods in their eyes , (hell Kenny Zaretzky was quoted as saying that  he believed Ricci was a God) in that  Hell hole and in fact they did believe everything that Ricci and the Directors said because they were also the ones who  doled out the favoritisms of goodness.

Hell I never knew that a coerced and violently coerced interrogation by non professionals ,whose only qualifacations were  that they were trained in the art of the Synanon game but they had upped the ante  of the game because this wasn't Synanon this was elan and it had many brutal sadistic tools of compliance , in their sadistic toolbox. And by gosh this was elan and they could get away with murder - thats another story, and again I digress. Still I thought and  believed that any confession brought out or found  by torture and sadistic coercive techniques was inadmissable in a court of law. Maybe this really isn't the USA mybe it is Pakistan.  Yes  wonders will never cease and like they said in elan "the reality is there is no reality "  

Why didn't Mickey Sherman  press these  issues . Why didn't he take my phone calls . When I talked to Frank Garr it seemed  that he didn't care to hear what I had to say about elan and the fact that I didn't  think Mike Skakel did it because of .... another person who came into the house late at night on 10-31-1975 in very strange circunstances at the time. And yes I certainly do have my reasons. Frank Garr seemed to understand that I suffered untold abuse after I was captured after running away from that assault incident with Robert . Yeh I told Frank Garr all about that and he told me that no one was going to put me in prison for that and that he could only imagine what I went thru Funny thing about all of this with Mickey Sherman and Frank Garr attempts at telling my side of a story that no one seemed to want to hear - was  because they already had a suspect and Sherman just didn't want to do his job and defend Mike Skakel tat all costs .  the funny thing about all of this is that this all happened back in 2000.

Yes back in 2000 when I read Ricci's words that the Kennedy family had suffered enough tragedies and in reference to the Skakel indictment "let by gones be by gones" I went thru unmitigated changes of PTSD because of the I had tried to cognitively disassociate myself from because they were so painful , these  memories just flowed like some giant dam that had burst. All from hearing Joe Ricci's voice while I was reading his words.

Yeh I am much happier now and sure I have had to make friends with horrible meories from hell - I can talk about elan and the things I experienced and witnessed  with great acuity and thought - and in a very factual fashion ,with out all the emotional bagage that use to make me hide those memories from myself . Yes I have made friends with memories from hell and yes that was elan. and for some reason I have a memory that just works very well, lol.

Yeh outside of the alledged confession being brutally beaten out of him and those words that he uttered aren't really an admission -its more like an innocent young boy just trying to say what his sadistic  cultic captors want him  him to say to make the emotional and physical pains of the sick elan game and sadistic beatdowns  to stop.

Yeh I don't think Mike Skakel is guilty -but I have other reasons besides what I wrote above- yet no one in Mike Skakels defense seems to really care. And that has always really puzzeled me.I would take truth serum -lie detector tests ,and more truth serum.

I truly don't believe Mike Skakel is guilty and no one who could help mike Skakel really  gives a hoot, so it seems.

Matt C. Hoffman.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: DannyB II on April 16, 2013, 09:19:58 PM
I already know that you may rip my head off because I am responding to your post but I felt compelled because I do feel he is guilty and that they did get the right guy. I do feel sorry for him because his family knew he did it and they felt paralyzed to do anything. His father Rushton knew he did it which is why he hired a very prestigious firm to handle an investigation which would produce the Sutton File.  
The evidence that was used at trial had nothing to do with Mike being beaten into making a confession (I am not arguing the beating because I wasn't there) it had more to do with eye witness testimony from 2-3 people (ex-Elan residents) saying Mike confessed to the killing.
I also thought Mark Furman's book was compelling.
I was also brought before the grand jury (for proof I still have the subpoena) due to the fact that I did Mike's initial intake exam (which in reality was a question and answer session about the murder). I can still remember it, he laughed at every question and played games throughout the whole time we were in the conference room. I understood that he probably didn't take me seriously since we were both the same age, didn't come across as very intelligent nor like I knew what I was doing. But everyone who had picked me to do this interview already knew my lack of credentials but what they were banking on was that I could get a feel on where Mike was at. I feel I did and I came away with a strong gut feeling that Mike did commit this murder. I told this to Joe, to the Sutton Investigators and to Rushton Skakel himself. Did I have concrete proof hell no, Mike did not admit to the murder to me but then again IMO he did by his actions in that room that afternoon in August of 1978.
No I am not going to the trial, just as I didn't go to the one that convicted him. They tried to get me to go but I told them I have nothing to tell you because it is just my opinion, am I willing to put someone away for the rest of his life on just my opinion..NO. But I also don't feel sad that Mike is in prison either. Because in my heart of hearts I know he is GUILTY!
It took his wife less than a week to file divorce papers, get paid hush up money and move on. Shit what does that tell you?
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Anonymous on April 16, 2013, 10:44:28 PM
Three liars. If they heard him admit to killing Martha, they would have gone to staff

I thinkTommy or this Avanango guy I read about did it

 :boycott:
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Reddit TroubledTeens on April 17, 2013, 03:25:22 AM
http://www.pressherald.com/news/nationw ... 04-15.html (http://www.pressherald.com/news/nationworld/skakels-latest-appeal-set-to-start-on-tuesday_2013-04-15.html)

Posted: April 15
Updated: Today at 2:40 PM

Skakel's trial attorney admits reluctance to call experts

The Kennedy cousin appeals his murder conviction by arguing that his lawyer failed to adequately defend him, including insufficiently challenging a witness who said Skakel confessed while at the Elan school in Maine.

By John Christoffersen / The Associated Press


VERNON, Conn. — The trial attorney for Kennedy cousin Michael Skakel said Tuesday he was reluctant to call experts at times during his murder trial because he worried about a "rich man's justice perception and we could just buy experts."
Michael Skakel
click image to enlarge

Michael Skakel listens during a parole hearing Oct. 24 at McDougall-Walker Correctional Institution in Suffield, Conn.

The Associated Press

Skakel's latest appeal trial began Tuesday with his former lawyer defending an accusation that he failed to competently defend Skakel when he was convicted of murder in 2002.

Skakel, the 52-year-old nephew of Robert F. Kennedy's widow, Ethel, is serving 20 years to life in prison for the 1975 golf club bludgeoning of Greenwich neighbor Martha Moxley when both of them were 15.

Skakel argues that during the 2002 trial, attorney Michael Sherman failed to challenge the state's star witness and obtain evidence pointing to other suspects, did a poor job with jury selection and closing arguments and didn't hire enough investigators and expert consultants.

Sherman, the first witness to take the stand in Rockville Superior Court in the appeal trial, said he had been confident before the 2002 trial that he would win. Sherman previously has said he did all he could to prevent Skakel's conviction.

Attorneys for Skakel argue that Sherman failed to challenge the state's star witness, Gregory Coleman, by finding witnesses who later rejected his claim that Skakel confessed to the crime. Coleman testified that Skakel confessed when they attended Elan, a reform school in Maine in the late 1970s, and said one of a few classmates he named may have heard it.

Sherman said Monday Coleman was "patently unbelievable so I never felt I needed a smoking gun to shoot down Mr. Coleman's testimony."

Sherman was also pressed by Skakel's current attorney, Hubert Santos, on whether he sought an expert to testify about Elan and whether he tried to get block Skakel's alleged confessions on the grounds that they were coerced. Sherman said he reached out to several people, including an expert on false confessions, but felt the expert wasn't needed because the defense contended Skakel never confessed.

"I didn't want to turn it into a rich man's justice perception and we could just buy experts," Sherman said.

Sherman also was pressed on why he didn't obtain a police sketch of a man seen walking near the Moxley property the night of the murder that Skakel's defense contends resembled an early suspect. Prosecutors say police concluded the sketch was of a neighbor.

Sherman said he did file motions seeking any sketches but didn't get them before trial. As Skakel's attorney put up the sketch next to a photo of the earlier suspect, Sherman acknowledged having the sketch would have been helpful.

Sherman also said he tried unsuccessfully to get a profile report on the suspect prepared by investigators, saying that also would have been helpful because investigators at the time backed up Skakel's alibi. Prosecutors say the report was hearsay and not admissible.

Santos questioned Sherman on why he didn't call witnesses to establish that the lead investigator planned to write a book on the case, saying that could have opened a broad new line of defense. Sherman said he tried unsuccessfully to find out about the book and acknowledged it could have been used in his defense.

Prosecutors say many of the issues were rejected in earlier appeals, including the book deal and issues related to the star witness.

Skakel, who lost a bid for parole last year, is hoping to get out of prison through a writ of habeas corpus arguing he was deprived of his constitutional right to effective legal representation when Sherman was his attorney.

Santos, Skakel's current attorney, argues his client's conviction is based on two witnesses of dubious credibility who claimed Skakel confessed to the crime. He contends the verdict likely would have been different if Sherman had conducted an appropriate investigation, obtained evidence and challenged inappropriate state evidence.

Prosecutor Susann Gill counters that Skakel's conviction came after more than a dozen witnesses testified that he made incriminating statements, including three direct confessions.

Skakel has lost two appeals before the Connecticut Supreme Court.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on April 17, 2013, 07:14:02 AM
Quote from: "DannyB II"
I already know that you may rip my head off because I am responding to your post but I felt compelled because I do feel he is guilty and that they did get the right guy. I do feel sorry for him because his family knew he did it and they felt paralyzed to do anything. His father Rushton knew he did it which is why he hired a very prestigious firm to handle an investigation which would produce the Sutton File.  
The evidence that was used at trial had nothing to do with Mike being beaten into making a confession (I am not arguing the beating because I wasn't there) it had more to do with eye witness testimony from 2-3 people (ex-Elan residents) saying Mike confessed to the killing.
I also thought Mark Furman's book was compelling.
I was also brought before the grand jury (for proof I still have the subpoena) due to the fact that I did Mike's initial intake exam (which in reality was a question and answer session about the murder). I can still remember it, he laughed at every question and played games throughout the whole time we were in the conference room. I understood that he probably didn't take me seriously since we were both the same age, didn't come across as very intelligent nor like I knew what I was doing. But everyone who had picked me to do this interview already knew my lack of credentials but what they were banking on was that I could get a feel on where Mike was at. I feel I did and I came away with a strong gut feeling that Mike did commit this murder. I told this to Joe, to the Sutton Investigators and to Rushton Skakel himself. Did I have concrete proof hell no, Mike did not admit to the murder to me but then again IMO he did by his actions in that room that afternoon in August of 1978.
No I am not going to the trial, just as I didn't go to the one that convicted him. They tried to get me to go but I told them I have nothing to tell you because it is just my opinion, am I willing to put someone away for the rest of his life on just my opinion..NO. But I also don't feel sad that Mike is in prison either. Because in my heart of hearts I know he is GUILTY!
It took his wife less than a week to file divorce papers, get paid hush up money and move on. Shit what does that tell you?

Well you are certainly entitled to your own opinion- complete with glaring contradictions, which is expected, and the casual reader will pick them up rest assured, Danny Bennison.

I have not nor would I read anything written by Furhman, there are far too many good books out there that I would like to  spend my time reading - Furhman does not fall  into my category of that type of author that I would read. And Yes I love to read.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: liarsexposed on April 17, 2013, 12:45:14 PM
I was there for that GM,and signage. Mike never confessed to anything. After 4-5 rounds in the ring,panting like a dog,bruised and beaten.. there was no admission. He and I slept in beds opposite each other,and we talked all the time. I wouldnt say we were best friends,but you couldnt have a best friend in elan.
Was the mileu we were forced to live in
I had a couple conversations with Frank Garr,told him the same thing.. But he was stuck on finding,or making him guilty (not sure which). Joe's testimony,and others from the Elan circus,tainted the outcome of this trial
eye witness testimony from a known herion user,and a loser looking for cash is how this case came about.
Furman is and was a lying idiot long before the Skakel circus
The one who really makes me sad is Dorothy Moxley. She is missing her daughter. Im not sure she cared WHO was convicted,as long as someone paid the price
Unfortunately,justice was not served,and over 10 years later,its time to make right. Even if he DID do it,which I disbelieve. .The penalty,at that time,would've been Juvi Jail until Mike was 18.. Maybe 21
This is a miscarriage of justice IMO
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on April 18, 2013, 08:31:19 AM
It is good to see former residents testifying on a witness stand about the sadistic beatings and various beatdowns that people suffered at the direction of Joe Ricci's goon squard that ran that hellhole.  

Constance Narayanan is a very brave woman to come forward and testify. It is funny how people telling the truth- their stories never change.  

Maybe this time a competent lawyer will be able to show the judge and the rest of the world that Elan was a brutal ,sadistic, violent -soul eating hellhole. Children subjected to such intense psychological techniques of coercion, intimidation, cuppled with the physical aspect of beatings and the ring beatdowns - should render anything that Mike skakel  may or may not have addmitted to, as inadmissible in any American court of law.

Rendering all witnesses testimonies  pertaining to what Mike may have said or not said inadmissible, any competent lawyer worth their salt should be able to  show this and prove this.

Maybe former survivors of Elan like myself and others will finally get the justice and acknowledgement that we deserve and need for complete closure of this  horrible chapter in our lives.

May Martin Kruglik , Jeffery Gottlieb,  Sharon Terry ,  former state Sentator Bill Diamond  and Ed McColl  get the justice that they so badly need and many of us seek for them, for brutal crimes of severe sadistic child abuse. I truly believe Elan  was a criminally run continuing enterprise, that fraudulently existed for close to 40 years.

Those aforementioned people ,Martin Kruglik ,Jeffery Gottlieb and Sharon Terry and their Lawyer  and the  former state senator Bill Diamond in my opinion aided and abetted Joe ricci in helping him run such a criminal operation.  

Former senator, Mister Bill Diamond in my opinion, used his position and connections with the Maine state legistlature to make sure that elan was protected and stayed protected, for years and years. Mister Diamond advocated for abused children,though not children that were being abused in elan, a unique double standard. Bill Diamond actually had the gall to write a book about horrible child abuse and in my opinion is one of the biggest frauds and two faced politicians known to man.

Bill Diamond worked for elan, as he stated in the book -Duck in a Raincoat by Maura Curley.

Elan abused children for massive profits,  profits derived from many other state's coffers, in the most grotesque fashion unimaginable to every day people,and it continued for close to forty long years.

I honestly don't believe Mike Skakel is guilty, from what I know first hand about the Elan machine of emotional and physical torture.

Matt C. Hoffman

http://www.greenwichtime.com/local/arti ... to-4485366 (http://www.greenwichtime.com/local/article/Attorneys-Sherman-lived-large-on-Skakel-family-s-4443348.php#photo-4485366)
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: DannyB II on April 18, 2013, 12:24:42 PM
Quote
It is good to see former residents testifying on a witness stand about the sadistic beatings and various beatdowns that people suffered at the direction of Joe Ricci's goon squard that ran that hellhole.

Constance Narayanan is a very brave woman to come forward and testify. It is funny how people telling the truth- their stories never change.

Maybe this time a competent lawyer will be able to show the judge and the rest of the world that Elan was a brutal ,sadistic, violent -soul eating hellhole. Children subjected to such intense psychological techniques of coercion, intimidation, cuppled with the physical aspect of beatings and the ring beatdowns - should render anything that Mike skakel may or may not have addmitted to, as inadmissible in any American court of law.

Rendering all witnesses testimonies pertaining to what Mike may have said or not said inadmissible, any competent lawyer worth their salt should be able to show this and prove this.

Maybe former survivors of Elan like myself and others will finally get the justice and acknowledgement that we deserve and need for complete closure of this horrible chapter in our lives.

May Martin Kruglik , Jeffery Gottlieb, Sharon Terry , former state Sentator Bill Diamond and Ed McColl get the justice that they so badly need and many of us seek for them, for brutal crimes of severe sadistic child abuse. I truly believe Elan was a criminally run continuing enterprise, that fraudulently existed for close to 40 years.

Those aforementioned people ,Martin Kruglik ,Jeffery Gottlieb and Sharon Terry and their Lawyer and the former state senator Bill Diamond in my opinion aided and abetted Joe ricci in helping him run such a criminal operation.

Former senator, Mister Bill Diamond in my opinion, used his position and connections with the Maine state legistlature to make sure that elan was protected and stayed protected, for years and years. Mister Diamond advocated for abused children,though not children that were being abused in elan, a unique double standard. Bill Diamond actually had the gall to write a book about horrible child abuse and in my opinion is one of the biggest frauds and two faced politicians known to man.

Bill Diamond worked for elan, as he stated in the book -Duck in a Raincoat by Maura Curley.

Elan abused children for massive profits, profits derived from many other state's coffers, in the most grotesque fashion unimaginable to every day people,and it continued for close to forty long years.

I honestly don't believe Mike Skakel is guilty, from what I know first hand about the Elan machine of emotional and physical torture.

Matt C. Hoffman

http://www.greenwichtime.com/local/arti (http://www.greenwichtime.com/local/arti) ... to-4485366




Mike, killed her in 1975, he didn't get to Elan until 1978. The admission of guilt that Mike confessed to this one resident at Elan in particular was extremely compelling and went towards convicting him as were the lies he told the police concerning his where abouts during the hours before, during and after the murder. Martha Moxely was beaten to death with a golf club, a portion of the shaft was imbedded in her chest.
Sorry, I have no sympathy for this sick fuck. He knows he did it, his brother and his family knows. They just don't believe someone from his pedigree should be sent to prison for life or sent to prison at all. I really don't think Micky Sherman's incompetence really played a part, but we will see. Shit.....OJ Simpson walked away scott free, so stranger things have happened. He is getting more chances at proving his innocents than you or I would ever have, all because of who he is.
Your characterization of Elan goes without argument from me. It was one of the worst places I had ever been sent to. I absolutely got nothing out it, except the friends I met and who I still stay in touch with today.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: psy on April 18, 2013, 03:01:03 PM
The way our justice system works, is that if a piece of evidence is bad, it cannot be used to convict a person.  If as you're arguing, Danny, that the forensic evidence stands on it's own, then so be it, but the program confession should definitely be thrown out and i'm glad they're bringing in a heavy hitter like Ofshe to get it done.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on April 18, 2013, 03:15:24 PM
Art -I agree the tragic and sad thing is that Mrs.Moxley  lost her daughter, Martha,  in a very horrible crime. I also get the feeling that she doesn't care who is convicted just as long as some one pays the price or answers for the crime . I wonder if she has doubts about Mike Skakel's conviction, though I would never ask her.

It is freaking bizarre how this  story changes because for the longest time and from what I remember about the autopsy diagrams was that the shaft of the golf club was driven thru her neck. It was a horrible crime scene.  It is new news to me that a  " portion of the shaft was imbedded in her chest  "

I think you got more than you say  out of elan  Danny Bennison than just friends -you got a job and according to your postings on the elanalum.com  site and elsewhere   that job lasted for 22 months.  And if I am correct you were an adult for 19 of those months.

Another thing Mike skakel is 52,  you  Danny Bennison are 54 doesn't' seem like the " we were the same age " to me.

Though stranger things have happened aint that the ever lovin truth.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: DannyB II on April 19, 2013, 01:56:42 AM
Quote from: "psy"
The way our justice system works, is that if a piece of evidence is bad, it cannot be used to convict a person.  If as you're arguing, Danny, that the forensic evidence stands on it's own, then so be it, but the program confession should definitely be thrown out and i'm glad they're bringing in a heavy hitter like Ofshe to get it done.

 I would say that the confession he made to one ex-resident will be very hard to dismiss. It was made late at night between two people. Mike initiated the engagement with this person. It seems that everyone either is unaware of this confession or chooses to ignore it. It is compelling and goes to the heart of the case against Mike. Ofshe is not going to persuade anyone to throw this confession out. Mike wanted to tell someone else other than his brother.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Anonymous on April 19, 2013, 02:19:53 AM
Again, the witnesses are liars. They would have run straight to staff if Mike told them he killed her

None of their stories have been corroborated.

He was a child without a lawyer and in a place that beat fake confessions out of people.

Danny, the stuttering sex offender doesn't believe him, and thinks because of this "feeling" that Mike should die in prison

How do I know about your stutter? I'm in touch with your family

You started dragging family into it, now I'm going to finish it.

I warned you Dan, don't play games with me unless you're sure you can beat me at it
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: DannyB II on April 19, 2013, 02:29:00 AM
I would say that the confession he made to "ONE EX-RESIDENT" will be very hard to dismiss. It was made late at night between two people. Mike initiated the engagement with this person. It seems that everyone either is unaware of this confession or chooses to ignore it. It is compelling and goes to the heart of the case against Mike. Ofshe is not going to persuade anyone to throw this confession out. Mike wanted to tell someone else other than his brother.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Anonymous on April 19, 2013, 02:33:01 AM
Quote
Danny Bennison said

When Michael finally came back to start his residency and was subjected to the abuse he went through at first I felt he deserved this (I know this is sick on so many levels) because I believed he knew who killed Martha (I still do)


Quote
Wayne Kernochan wrote:
So, because you "believed" he knew who killed her, Mike deserved to be abused.

Then you were ready to testify against him even though the statement was beaten out of him

You were a piece of shit then and you're a piece of shit now

Die

So, now you've gone from believing he knew who did it, to he did it

Why don't you leave justice to the people who know right from wrong?
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: liarsexposed on April 19, 2013, 10:42:36 AM
Quote from: "DannyB II"
I would say that the confession he made to "ONE EX-RESIDENT" will be very hard to dismiss. It was made late at night between two people. Mike initiated the engagement with this person. It seems that everyone either is unaware of this confession or chooses to ignore it. It is compelling and goes to the heart of the case against Mike. Ofshe is not going to persuade anyone to throw this confession out. Mike wanted to tell someone else other than his brother.
You are making a bigger fool of yourself than Wayne could possibly make Danny.
Mike never confessed to anyone. I dont care if you did his Intake assessment. Did he confess to you ?
He did not
and you think Higgins or Coleman are credible ?
You are talking about things you know nothing about = again/still
what good could possibly come from that statement?
Beyond you're Opinion?
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on April 19, 2013, 10:58:49 AM
Quote from: "liarsexposed"
I was there for that GM,and signage. Mike never confessed to anything. After 4-5 rounds in the ring,panting like a dog,bruised and beaten.. there was no admission. He and I slept in beds opposite each other,and we talked all the time. I wouldnt say we were best friends,but you couldnt have a best friend in elan.
Was the mileu we were forced to live in
I had a couple conversations with Frank Garr,told him the same thing.. But he was stuck on finding,or making him guilty (not sure which). Joe's testimony,and others from the Elan circus,tainted the outcome of this trial
eye witness testimony from a known herion user,and a loser looking for cash is how this case came about.
Furman is and was a lying idiot long before the Skakel circus
The one who really makes me sad is Dorothy Moxley. She is missing her daughter. Im not sure she cared WHO was convicted,as long as someone paid the price
Unfortunately,justice was not served,and over 10 years later,its time to make right. Even if he DID do it,which I disbelieve. .The penalty,at that time,would've been Juvi Jail until Mike was 18.. Maybe 21
This is a miscarriage of justice IMO

I find this to be very compelling what Art has written.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on April 19, 2013, 11:10:41 AM
Quote from: "liarsexposed"
Quote from: "DannyB II"
I would say that the confession he made to "ONE EX-RESIDENT" will be very hard to dismiss. It was made late at night between two people. Mike initiated the engagement with this person. It seems that everyone either is unaware of this confession or chooses to ignore it. It is compelling and goes to the heart of the case against Mike. Ofshe is not going to persuade anyone to throw this confession out. Mike wanted to tell someone else other than his brother.
You are making a bigger fool of yourself than Wayne could possibly make Danny.
Mike never confessed to anyone. I dont care if you did his Intake assessment. Did he confess to you ?
He did not
and you think Higgins or Coleman are credible ?
You are talking about things you know nothing about = again/still
what good could possibly come from that statement?
Beyond you're Opinion?

I find this also to be very compelling - Danny Bennison you can  wave your flag of a subpenoa up and down the street all day long, though you must remember that you went because you subpenoaed but you wrote that you were not called to testify. you wrote that Danny Bennison -That is just a small part of a long list of lies that have sprung from your finger tips as you type your nonsense.

It is rhetorical- because I know you are incapable of telling the truth -but were you prepped by the directors who hand picked you as an adult employee of the elan program? , as to what to ask and how to ask questions of  Mike Skakel during your so -called intake interview. Do you think at any time your bosses could have induced preconceived notions  in you as to Mike Skakel's guilt by  the men who directed you to get your gut feeling about Mike Skakel .

and being the good employee did you give your bosses the "gut feeling" that they were seeking. As I said it is all rhetorical.

I always thought that pedigree was reserved for dogs
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: DannyB II on April 19, 2013, 11:18:28 AM
Quote from: "Wayne Kernochan"
Quote
Danny Bennison said

When Michael finally came back to start his residency and was subjected to the abuse he went through at first I felt he deserved this (I know this is sick on so many levels) because I believed he knew who killed Martha (I still do)


Quote
Wayne Kernochan wrote:
So, because you "believed" he knew who killed her, Mike deserved to be abused.

Then you were ready to testify against him even though the statement was beaten out of him

You were a piece of shit then and you're a piece of shit now

Die

So, now you've gone from believing he knew who did it, to he did it

Why don't you leave justice to the people who know right from wrong?



Wayne I am so happy that your job in life has nothing to do with investigation, forensics, or the ability to decipher what someone is saying. Because you suck.
Wayne's typical MO, take what someone he doesn't like says and give it his interpretation. Than take that opinion and use It against said person in subsequent conversations.
The abuse I am referring to that Mike endured was the same abuse Art, Matt, myself and others endured. IDK if Mike was put in the ring for the sole purpose of beating a confession out of him. If this is a fact, well that is just fucked up.
So ya see...that was easy Wayne. All you have to do is ask someone what they meant.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: DannyB II on April 19, 2013, 11:28:57 AM
Quote from: "Matt C. Hoffman"
Quote from: "liarsexposed"
Quote from: "DannyB II"
I would say that the confession he made to "ONE EX-RESIDENT" will be very hard to dismiss. It was made late at night between two people. Mike initiated the engagement with this person. It seems that everyone either is unaware of this confession or chooses to ignore it. It is compelling and goes to the heart of the case against Mike. Ofshe is not going to persuade anyone to throw this confession out. Mike wanted to tell someone else other than his brother.
You are making a bigger fool of yourself than Wayne could possibly make Danny.
Mike never confessed to anyone. I dont care if you did his Intake assessment. Did he confess to you ?
He did not
and you think Higgins or Coleman are credible ?
You are talking about things you know nothing about = again/still
what good could possibly come from that statement?
Beyond you're Opinion?

I find this also to be very compelling - Danny Bennison you can  wave your flag of a subpenoa up and down the street all day long, though you must remember that you went because you subpenoaed but you wrote that you were not called to testify. you wrote that Danny Bennison -That is just a small part of a long list of lies that have sprung from your finger tips as you type your nonsense.

It is retorhical because I know you are incapable of telling the truth -but were you prepped by the directors who hand picked you as an adult employee of the elan program, as to what to ask and how to ask questions of  mike Skakel during your so -called intake interview. Do you think at any time your bosses could have induced preconceived notions  in you as to Mike Skakel's guilt by  the men who directed you to get your gut feeling about Mike Skakel .

and being the good employee did you give your bosses the "gut feeling" that they were seeking. As I said it is all retorhical.

I always thought that pedigree was reserved for dogs


Matt, kinda suffers from the same thing Wayne does because of his dislike for me but Matt can be reeled back in with common sense.
Matt, if you were to read all of my posts on this subject you would see where I also wrote of the contentious relationship i had with Frank Garr and the prosecuting attorney (during the grand jury hearing). They wanted to make more out of my intake exam with Mike than was there. They wanted to make more out of my conversations with Rushton, The Sutton folks and Joe Ricci than were there.
So once I left Bridgeport Ct. after the grand jury hearing I never went back. I told them I would not testify because I had nothing concrete to give them. All I had was my gut feeling and I still stand by that.
See guys isn't this fun when you sorta ask a question from someone (you hate) and they reply with an answer. This way we don't have to depend on your opinion.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: DannyB II on April 19, 2013, 11:40:46 AM
Quote from: "liarsexposed"
Quote from: "DannyB II"
I would say that the confession he made to "ONE EX-RESIDENT" will be very hard to dismiss. It was made late at night between two people. Mike initiated the engagement with this person. It seems that everyone either is unaware of this confession or chooses to ignore it. It is compelling and goes to the heart of the case against Mike. Ofshe is not going to persuade anyone to throw this confession out. Mike wanted to tell someone else other than his brother.
You are making a bigger fool of yourself than Wayne could possibly make Danny.
Mike never confessed to anyone. I dont care if you did his Intake assessment. Did he confess to you ?
He did not
and you think Higgins or Coleman are credible ?
You are talking about things you know nothing about = again/still
what good could possibly come from that statement?
Beyond you're Opinion?


Art, thanks for your response but I'll have to disagree...on all counts.. :)
This is what I will say and if you (Art) have a different opinion fine but I am also entitled to mine.
The one ex-resident I am referring to who testified at the grand jury, I found this person to be very credible. I spent 2 days with him (well actually there was 4 of us who spent time together for 2 days, we all had gone to Élan). If I can remember there were more than that who came before the grand jury but I did not see them just heard from others about them.
I have an idea of Mike's guilt because I interviewed him, I know the credible witness I am referring to now since 1998 (15yrs) and I have (think...lol actually i know) Mike stumbled through his testimony on the stand as to whether he did confess to this person I am referring to. Just like Mike stumbled through his lies concerning where he was that night he killed Martha.
So as far as your comments above Art, I have no idea why you say the things you do but you are definitely entitled.
Take care Art.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: none-ya on April 19, 2013, 11:56:26 AM
I'll probably regret asking this but since I did not go to elan,I have to ask. Were the Kennedys large supporters of elan? Financial or otherwise? Were they ever there? They had to have somebody on the inside (right?) Seems like their money could have gone a long way.(if you get my drift)
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: DannyB II on April 19, 2013, 01:03:14 PM
Quote from: "none-ya"
I'll probably regret asking this but since I did not go to elan,I have to ask. Were the Kennedys large supporters of elan? Financial or otherwise? Were they ever there? They had to have somebody on the inside (right?) Seems like their money could have gone a long way.(if you get my drift)


The short version is no. They wanted to stampede the initial investigation and the Sutton Report was do out and it was damaging. Plus Mike wasn't cooperating by being a good child and not drawing attention to himself. So they shipped him off, Joe Ricci had a fat ego with no morals to speak of, what better place to hide Mike. Of course this is just my opinion....:-)
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on April 19, 2013, 02:50:48 PM
[quote="DannyB II"


Matt, kinda suffers from the same thing Wayne does because of his dislike for me but Matt can be reeled back in with common sense.
Matt, if you were to read all of my posts on this subject you would see where I also wrote of the contentious relationship i had with Frank Garr and the prosecuting attorney (during the grand jury hearing). They wanted to make more out of my intake exam with Mike than was there. They wanted to make more out of my conversations with Rushton, The Sutton folks and Joe Ricci than were there.
So once I left Bridgeport Ct. after the grand jury hearing I never went back. I told them I would not testify because I had nothing concrete to give them. All I had was my gut feeling and I still stand by that.
See guys isn't this fun when you sorta ask a question from someone (you hate) and they reply with an answer. This way we don't have to depend on your opinion.[/quote]

Danny Bennison you are too funny- I do not suffer from anything ,you do not tell the truth and your biggest problem -well you have so many,  is that you assume way too much -I don't hate you Danny Bennison .

I do however pity you and  your acute  inabilty to actually tell the truth, really the truth about anything -  In all fairness the questions I did ask you, I said was rhetorical therefore of course I did not expect to get an honest answer. You did write that you didn't testify at the grand jury hearings- I saw it with my own eyes and I know they don't lie.

Actually Danny Bennison when one asks a question of a known liar like yourself and they reply ,the funny thing is that generally they are going to reply with a lie .

As for your opinion Danny Bennison don't flatter yourself in thinking that anyone finds value in it , it too funny that you seem to think it is that important .

And Danny Bennison what I went thru in elan you couldn't even imagine, the hell I went thru - because you did not know me in elan then and you don't know what I went thru -remember you told me that "you knew elan was a game and you knew how to play it" .Don't consider yourself a survivor like me , you have no clue what I went thru and don't lie because you weren't with me in my house and quite fankly you are not me, and that is a fact.  You have no clue what I suffered and have risen above.

you and I certainly are not the same,and don't flatter yourself and fooling yourself in thinking that we are. I thank God I am not you,lol.

And remember Danny Bennison we spent one waste of a phone call trying to place each other in elan, and I couldn't place you nor could you I and if you say any different you then have lied again. Oh wait you have said that on the web in many places and the fact of that Danny Bennison is that you are a liar and have lied many times about all sorts of things.

Funny  as hell -you want the public to believe that Benedict and Garr wanted you to lie in the grand jury and you wouldn't do it - hahahahaha  to convict Skakel - hell Danny that is as perposterous as believeing that you are capable of telling the truth, really about anything.

No Danny Bennison you are sadly mistaken I don't hate you ,no time for it- I do laugh at you and pity you as do all the other folks who know you and the truth about you.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: DannyB II on April 19, 2013, 03:43:07 PM
Matt, your problem is you are a show off. You enjoy writing these long redundant responses to me. Whatever I write is my truth which therefore is the truth. I don't lie or fabricate unlike your friends Matt.
What I wrote about Mike is my opinion, don't like it don't read it.
Try relaxing Matt, don't be so long winded. It makes you look like you are insecure, ya know struggling to make your point.
You take care.....:)
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: none-ya on April 19, 2013, 03:56:07 PM
I get the feeling he washes his hand 200 times a day.Counts his steps,and knows exactly how many ceramic tiles are in his bathroom.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on April 19, 2013, 04:14:38 PM
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Matt, your problem is you are a show off. You enjoy writing these long redundant responses to me. Whatever I write is my truth which therefore is the truth. I don't lie or fabricate unlike your friends Matt.
What I wrote about Mike is my opinion, don't like it don't read it.
Try relaxing Matt, don't be so long winded. It makes you look like you are insecure, ya know struggling to make your point.
You take care.....:)


Ha hahahahaha Danny Bennison  you wish-  they are not to you or for you Danny Bennison- (doesn't matter you wouldn't understand),   please  don't flatter yourself and my God man " what ever you write...... ", hahahahaha is not the truth Danny Bennison, we all know that. You have frabricated such nonsense on the internet that what you wrote was so funny that I am still laughing, ah the fornit idiot you are aptly named.

Your opinions hold no value for anyone Danny Bennison because we know that you are full of it. It is funny to see how deluded you are in your lack of any  ability to grasp reality and your well known inability to ever tell the truth.

Danny Bennison is a liar  -no doubt about that. No struggle just a fact.

don't lie by telling me to take care- hahahahaha. and don't tell me what to do . I don't tell you to tell the truth because I am well aware that is impossible for you,and everyone else knows also. Too freaking funny.

ya sure you aren't the none- ya ,lol. too funny
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: none-ya on April 19, 2013, 04:26:27 PM
No doubt he's off his meds.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on April 19, 2013, 04:49:24 PM
none-ya  you sure you don't have a little of that Danny Bennison in Ya.

Never took meds and sorry you feel that you have to involve yurself in something that you have no clue about unless of course you are a little bit danny -lol.

 The idiot r funny.

You are going to love my next ruminating post of--  let us just say for sake of arguement  that the elan folks like Kruglik ,Gottlieb and MCCann and Ricci  and   other  elan employees actually believed that  Mike was guilty .....wouldn't that make etal (all of them ) guilty of being accessory to murder after the fact.  I mean hell if they so believed like their boy Danny Bennison did that he was guilty  and he believed it deep down into his intestines like he has said , then why not go to the police with this info, and not be complicit in covering up this alledged murder - Ooooooh  

This goes way beyond obstruction of justice a crime that  are certainly guilty of and  they  did  this crime- of obstruction of justice -  when ever there was any inspection on the elan property by any States inspector -you know how they controlled the floorshow and only let the inspectors see what they , the Owner  Joe Ricci ,and his henchmen that helped him run it ,wanted them to  see.

In other words non-ya they hid the truth about elan from the inspectors ,ever wonder why none-ya ?  

Believe me it will be more wordy and descriptive  than this and I know that you all just  can't wait ,lol.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Anonymous on April 19, 2013, 04:51:08 PM
And now None-ya turns on Matt to defend Danny the abusive, lying child molester

His sworn enemy  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Anonymous on April 19, 2013, 04:58:47 PM
Quote from: "DannyB II"
Quote from: "Wayne Kernochan"
Quote
Danny Bennison said

When Michael finally came back to start his residency and was subjected to the abuse he went through at first I felt he deserved this (I know this is sick on so many levels) because I believed he knew who killed Martha (I still do)


Quote
Wayne Kernochan wrote:
So, because you "believed" he knew who killed her, Mike deserved to be abused.

Then you were ready to testify against him even though the statement was beaten out of him

You were a piece of shit then and you're a piece of shit now

Die

So, now you've gone from believing he knew who did it, to he did it

Why don't you leave justice to the people who know right from wrong?



Wayne I am so happy that your job in life has nothing to do with investigation, forensics, or the ability to decipher what someone is saying. Because you suck.
Wayne's typical MO, take what someone he doesn't like says and give it his interpretation. Than take that opinion and use It against said person in subsequent conversations.
The abuse I am referring to that Mike endured was the same abuse Art, Matt, myself and others endured. IDK if Mike was put in the ring for the sole purpose of beating a confession out of him. If this is a fact, well that is just fucked up.
So ya see...that was easy Wayne. All you have to do is ask someone what they meant.
Your words were that you believe he deserved the abuse because you thought he knew who killed Martha, but now you're sure he did it

And, the abuse many people suffered at Elan was at your hands. Let's not forget that. You calling yourself an Elan survivor is like Hitler calling himself a holocaust survivor
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: YV23 on April 19, 2013, 06:46:13 PM
Danny wanted to testify so badly he could taste it, but Benedict saw him as a loser.

Coleman and Higgins were both after the money. Skakel didn't confess to those two bozos and as Wayne said, they would have run to staff. They're liars.

We all know that you're Noneya Danny. Your sexually aggressive language, and the 180 degree turnaround from Danny being your enemy to you defending him is the biggest give away. That and you and Danny flooding the threads about Poland Springs being sold

On the offhand chance it's not you, you're an Elan troll. You're both pigs   :rocker:
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: none-ya on April 19, 2013, 07:40:34 PM
Once again I have never been to elan!!!
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: YV23 on April 19, 2013, 07:44:48 PM
Quote from: "none-ya"
Once again I have never been to elan!!!
Oh yes you have little piggy

Oink oink
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Anonymous on April 19, 2013, 07:47:55 PM
All anyone has to do is check you and Danny's posting history. You both appear and disappear together and for long periods of time

Little piggy LOL
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: none-ya on April 19, 2013, 07:48:18 PM
What's with all you attention whores that have to hitch you wagons to the Skakel trial. Let me guess Wayne, you were raped by the Kennedys. l
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: none-ya on April 19, 2013, 07:49:17 PM
Quote from: "Wayne Kernochan"
All anyone has to do is check you and Danny's posting history. You both appear and disappear together and for long periods of time

Little piggy LOL

You're all a bunch of paranoid idiots.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: YV23 on April 19, 2013, 07:51:40 PM
Quote from: "none-ya"
What's with all you attention whores that have to hitch you wagons to the Skakel trial. Let me guess Wayne, you were raped by the Kennedys. l

Only Danny is capable of such inhuman aggression. You worthless pile of dogshit
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Anonymous on April 19, 2013, 07:54:42 PM
He's a special kind of scumbag, that's true. But you are insulting dogshit by comparing it to him
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: .T-Rex on April 19, 2013, 10:18:42 PM
Everybody hates none-ya

Because he's Danny  :fuckoff:
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Sum-Ya on April 20, 2013, 12:31:56 AM
Quote
by .T-Rex » Today, 03:18

Everybody hates none-ya

Because he's Danny  :fuckoff:


You will have to "up your game" T-Rex because you are boring the hell out of people.   I hope you come up with something more creative, in the future, than "Nunez is on food stamps."
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: DannyB. ll on April 20, 2013, 08:08:39 PM
Danny is full of shit. They knew he was staff and knew why he was fired. That was why he wasn't called to testify

Garr and Benedict were desperate, and didn't put someone on the stand who thought Michael was guilty?

Things that make you go, Hmmmmmmmm
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Sum-Ya on April 20, 2013, 09:03:20 PM
Quote from: "DannyB. ll"
Danny is full of shit. They knew he was staff and knew why he was fired. That was why he wasn't called to testify

Garr and Benedict were desperate, and didn't put someone on the stand who thought Michael was guilty?

Things that make you go, Hmmmmmmmm

That would be "the pot calling the kettle black."   :seg:
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Che Gookin on April 20, 2013, 09:11:05 PM
This is the part I don't get about the whole Skakel trial. It seems as if the confession was beaten out of him in the ring. Since when do confessions that are beaten out of a person be allowed in court? If that trial hinged on that confession then it should very well be thrown out as a miscarriage of justice. If the State Prosecutor has anything other than that to bring to the table then by all means.

And Wayne, it wasn't Lee, I can prove it to you as well. I know you two have had your problems and probably still will, but the faxes weren't her. PM me and promise not to share this information around and I'll talk with you about it.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Anonymous on April 20, 2013, 10:03:57 PM
I didn't say it was Lee. I could care less who is sending faxes to HEAL

I think it's Art.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Che Gookin on April 21, 2013, 12:06:58 PM
Nope, not him either. Like I said, I have fairly good proof of who did it or is doing it. They weren't terribly clever about how they went about it. I won't tell you specifics but when you use a free internet fax service it leaves the bloody IP address on it.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Anonymous on April 21, 2013, 02:20:42 PM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Nope, not him either. Like I said, I have fairly good proof of who did it or is doing it. They weren't terribly clever about how they went about it. I won't tell you specifics but when you use a free internet fax service it leaves the bloody IP address on it.
Like I said, I couldn't care less. It doesn't affect me. If it affects Heal, then I would, but she doesn't seem to mind

As far as the trial, here's an interesting fact. Why didn't Tommy testify in the first trial? If he was falsely accused for 20+ years, it would have shown how inept the investigators are and how they ruined an innocent man's life, but he didn't because he did it

If they had done that to me, I would have jumped at the chance to say it in court, but only if I didn't do it. I'd also like to know why they sent the guilty brother to a place that would beat a confession out of him. They knew what Elan was doing. The Kennedy's were neck deep in the Huuman Potential Movement and thought reform.

I'd also like to hear from Charlie Avanango. He was flown into Maine in the middle of the night and Joe Ricci picked him up in the middle of the night, which he never did. That was on Halloween, the day after Martha was killed. His mother said i n front of a witness that he should never talk about that girl

Slim, I know, but there are a few people who say he was the one who killed her
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: DannyB II on April 21, 2013, 10:53:09 PM
Quote from: "none-ya"
No doubt he's off his meds.

Yes, he is off his meds and back on the bottle. Matt usually doesn't start drinking till later in the evening but I guess someone or something must have triggered a bender. Poor fella, he goes to all the AA and Anti AA sites and posts. He is on the Orange Papers Forum as John BarleyCorn, you can definitely see the similarities in writing. Wayne Kernochan calls himself SandyB on the Orange Papers Forum.
None Ya reading Matt's long incoherent posts on the OPF are hilarious. He thinks he is this gifted writer.....lmao!!!
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: DannyB II on April 21, 2013, 10:58:04 PM
Quote from: "Matt C. Hoffman"
none-ya  you sure you don't have a little of that Danny Bennison in Ya.

Never took meds and sorry you feel that you have to involve yurself in something that you have no clue about unless of course you are a little bit danny -lol.

 The idiot r funny.

You are going to love my next ruminating post of--  let us just say for sake of arguement  that the elan folks like Kruglik ,Gottlieb and MCCann and Ricci  and   other  elan employees actually believed that  Mike was guilty .....wouldn't that make etal (all of them ) guilty of being accessory to murder after the fact.  I mean hell if they so believed like their boy Danny Bennison did that he was guilty  and he believed it deep down into his intestines like he has said , then why not go to the police with this info, and not be complicit in covering up this alledged murder - Ooooooh  

This goes way beyond obstruction of justice a crime that  are certainly guilty of and  they  did  this crime- of obstruction of justice -  when ever there was any inspection on the elan property by any States inspector -you know how they controlled the floorshow and only let the inspectors see what they , the Owner  Joe Ricci ,and his henchmen that helped him run it ,wanted them to  see.

In other words non-ya they hid the truth about elan from the inspectors ,ever wonder why none-ya ?  

Believe me it will be more wordy and descriptive  than this and I know that you all just  can't wait ,lol.


Matt, put the bottle down...slap yourself twice (IDK where) and wake the fuck up!!! I was subpoenaed to a grand jury....so yah I was with the police, prosecutor and judge. These two, Matt and Wayne, are two of the stupidness towheads I have ever met.
I never had any proof!!!
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: DannyB II on April 21, 2013, 11:02:23 PM
Quote from: "Wayne Kernochan"
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Nope, not him either. Like I said, I have fairly good proof of who did it or is doing it. They weren't terribly clever about how they went about it. I won't tell you specifics but when you use a free internet fax service it leaves the bloody IP address on it.
Like I said, I couldn't care less. It doesn't affect me. If it affects Heal, then I would, but she doesn't seem to mind

As far as the trial, here's an interesting fact. Why didn't Tommy testify in the first trial? If he was falsely accused for 20+ years, it would have shown how inept the investigators are and how they ruined an innocent man's life, but he didn't because he did it

If they had done that to me, I would have jumped at the chance to say it in court, but only if I didn't do it. I'd also like to know why they sent the guilty brother to a place that would beat a confession out of him. They knew what Elan was doing. The Kennedy's were neck deep in the Huuman Potential Movement and thought reform.

I'd also like to hear from Charlie Avanango. He was flown into Maine in the middle of the night and Joe Ricci picked him up in the middle of the night, which he never did. That was on Halloween, the day after Martha was killed. His mother said i n front of a witness that he should never talk about that girl

Slim, I know, but there are a few people who say he was the one who killed her


Why would Tommy kill someone so brutally that he was sleeping with. He took her away from Mike, he had her that night....are you really this inept when it comes to this murder or are you on another one of your fishin  expeditions. Looking to plagiarize again Wayne..poo.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Sum-Ya on April 21, 2013, 11:07:15 PM
Danny do you need a hug?  :hug:
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: DannyB II on April 21, 2013, 11:13:32 PM
Quote from: "Sum-Ya"
Danny do you need a hug?  :hug:

Thanks...big fella...... :notworthy:
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Anonymous on April 22, 2013, 06:44:25 AM
Quote
Idiot Child Wrote:
Why would Tommy kill someone so brutally that he was sleeping with. He took her away from Mike, he had her that night....are you really this inept when it comes to this murder or are you on another one of your fishin expeditions. Looking to plagiarize again Wayne..poo.

You're a caveman, you know that? No wonder they didn't want you to testify. I can see you on the stand "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, why would Tommy kill her? She was putting out"

Sex had nothing to do with it. You couldn't possibly understand because you're sick, you don't experience emotions correctly. You see, the rest of us experience this thing called Love, and love can definitely cause people to kill like that.

Unlike you, we don't break people down to commodities. "I can fuck her, she's a keeper" We develop relationships based on love and passion

Maybe she broke up with him and wanted to be with Mike. Maybe she was conflicted and didn't want to have sex any more.

You also don't seem to comprehend the law. We don't convict even guilty people without evidence and we certainly don't take away their life because of tainted evidence. Anything they considered evidence that is attached to Elan is tainted. Elan tainted everything and everyone it touched.

Have a long life Dan
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Che Gookin on April 22, 2013, 07:38:08 AM
So I'm still confused, was Skakel tossed in jail based on a confession beaten out of him in the ring?
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on April 22, 2013, 08:54:02 AM
LOL Che -I can understand your confusion- bottom line the answer is yes which possibly lead to Higgins and Coleman to say that he confessed to them . It is odd that prosecutors,   let one of the " worst of the worst " (as quoted by Mickey Sherman's P.I. in Fridays April 19 2013 testomony) type of Junkie's testimony (Coleman ) be played in that courtroom.

Coleman overdosed before the trial of Mike Skakel began , therefore he wasn't allowed to confront his accuser, and Sherman was not able to question his testimony.

This trial back in 2002 when Mike was convicted was a travesty imo of the judicial system on so many counts that the prosecutors ,Skakel's original  defense attorney ,and judge should all be blushing  in embarrassement at the allowed out come and verdict.

The real loser's besides Mike is Mrs.Moxely and the Moxely family - I don't think it is possible for them to believe 100% that the Mike is guilty, by this travesty of a trial.

I have more to say Che, I have to run. Talk with you later.

Matt Hoffman
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Anonymous on April 22, 2013, 04:54:36 PM
This was a media trial. Mike was convicted by public opinion and the media pushed the confession. Frank Garr wanted me to testify and sent me to see John Benedict because I told him that everyone heard Mike confess to the crime. When I saw Mickey Sherman, I told him the reason why, which is that he was beaten and he said it every time he entered or left a room. It was on his sign. Mickey Sherman said that Mike never admitted it, which was false. He said it many times. Anyway, neither side wanted to hear the truth.

Because Elan routinely beat and coerced false confessions from us, nothing from an ex resident or staff should have been admissable. The fact they were messing with thought reform and indoctrination as therapy should render any information garnered from Mike's stay at Elan null and void

But hey, Danny has a gut feeling. Everyone can go home. Nothing to see here.

Actually, I think Danny's feeling is the greatest piece of evidence that Mike is innocent. That moron couldn't pick the winner of a one horse race
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Che Gookin on April 22, 2013, 11:19:55 PM
Are there any articles or wikis that lay the whole fucked up story out from start to finish? Absolutely none of this makes a lick of sense.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Horatio. on April 23, 2013, 05:53:25 AM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Are there any articles or wikis that lay the whole fucked up story out from start to finish? Absolutely none of this makes a lick of sense.
The trial was like a general meeting. It made no sense. The confusion you're experiencing is a perfectly reasonable reaction. The jury wanted to hang Skakel and Elan people helped them do it.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: psy on April 23, 2013, 10:50:35 AM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
Are there any articles or wikis that lay the whole fucked up story out from start to finish? Absolutely none of this makes a lick of sense.
Wikipedia has an article (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Skakel).  There is also plenty in the news if you search google news.  Here's a link to one article (http://http://articles.courant.com/2013-04-22/community/hc-michael-skakel-psychologist-day5-0423-20130422_1_trial-lawyer-mickey-sherman-moxley-and-skakel-ethel-skakel-kennedy).
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on April 23, 2013, 02:19:16 PM
Che you can go to  http://www.greenwichtime.com/ (http://www.greenwichtime.com/)  and look for any reference to the Shakel trial and you can follow the trial that is now going on.

There are books also  and the  trial transcripts from when Mike Skakel  in 2002 was convicted for the 1975 murder of a neighbor thru testimony of former Elan residents, when he was a resident in elan in the late 70's. the  transcripts of the trial can also be found online.

It will all start making sense Che, lol.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Che Gookin on April 23, 2013, 08:28:34 PM
I DUNNNO.... so much to do here.. stop watching the First and only season of Firefly or delve into the belly of the beast......

 :suicide:
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Troublemaker on April 24, 2013, 06:15:09 AM
Quote
Ofshe, who worked on an exposé about a similar facility that won a Pulitzer Prize, used the words "intimidation" and "humiliation" to describe the atmosphere at the Elan school.

http://articles.courant.com/2013-04-22/ ... el-kennedy (http://articles.courant.com/2013-04-22/community/hc-michael-skakel-psychologist-day5-0423-20130422_1_trial-lawyer-mickey-sherman-moxley-and-skakel-ethel-skakel-kennedy)

Expert Witness Says Skakel's 'Shift' In Statements About Moxley Murder Came Amid Culture Of Intimidation

They beat him down with the shift in his story from having not done it to he couldn't remember. I disagree about the two confessions because they never happened. Coleman and Higgins are liars. The reward should negate what either of them said. Neither statement has been corroborated

This is the first newspaper article I've seen that uses the word intimidation. Forget the ring and the paddle, that was the worst part of Elan. They could do whatever they wanted and they did. Even beat Phil Williams to death and got away with it. I wonder how the kids in his house must have felt atferwards
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Che Gookin on April 24, 2013, 08:40:17 PM
So what are the chances the old conviction gets overturned?
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: psy on April 25, 2013, 06:36:14 AM
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
So what are the chances the old conviction gets overturned?
I'm not all that familiar with the case, but based on what I know, i'd say it's unlikely.  Trying to convince your average Joe that he was somehow coerced into making a confession requires more than a short lecture by Richard Ofshe, as good as he is.  People just don't understand coercive persuasion and most don't want to understand.  Most want to believe free will is inviolable and anything that threatens that assumption is too dangerous to consider.  Most will see him as troubled, having been put in a place for troubled kids because of that, and having gotten what he deserved.  The concept that in order to graduate from many programs you not only have to confess to things, but also believe them is just too foreign.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: DannyB II on April 25, 2013, 02:53:45 PM
Quote from: "Wayne Kernochan"
Quote
Idiot Child Wrote:
Why would Tommy kill someone so brutally that he was sleeping with. He took her away from Mike, he had her that night....are you really this inept when it comes to this murder or are you on another one of your fishin expeditions. Looking to plagiarize again Wayne..poo.

You're a caveman, you know that? No wonder they didn't want you to testify. I can see you on the stand "Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, why would Tommy kill her? She was putting out"

Sex had nothing to do with it. You couldn't possibly understand because you're sick, you don't experience emotions correctly. You see, the rest of us experience this thing called Love, and love can definitely cause people to kill like that.

Unlike you, we don't break people down to commodities. "I can fuck her, she's a keeper" We develop relationships based on love and passion

Maybe she broke up with him and wanted to be with Mike. Maybe she was conflicted and didn't want to have sex any more.

You also don't seem to comprehend the law. We don't convict even guilty people without evidence and we certainly don't take away their life because of tainted evidence. Anything they considered evidence that is attached to Elan is tainted. Elan tainted everything and everyone it touched.

Have a long life Dan

Jeesh.......what a beautifully scripted drama filled post. Wayne you are only one here to actually get sent away for molesting someone, so please spare us all the lesson on gender relations.
I will spell it out for you because as we can see you are more interested in making points here by insulting me with ridiculous accusations then sticking with the topic.
Tom didn't have an issue with Martha (that was ever brought out) that would bring about a psychotic episode like the one that killed Martha. Mike did have a psychotic episode that night, brought about by Martha's rejection and his brothers one upmanship, Tom knew Mike adored Martha and wanted to be with her and he took his brothers feeling and shoved them up Mike ass. So Mike went about to get his revenge and he picked the weaker of the two and also the one he felt really betrayed him the most.
Mike and Tom changed their stories concerning the timeline of there events that evening. I believe Tommy did this to help his brother but in the end it damn near implicated him.
Let me state also that this is my opinion, of course I have no facts, just what I experienced for a short period of time with Mike and what has been reported from the trial, witness accounts, books and magazine articles.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: DannyB II on April 25, 2013, 03:18:25 PM
Quote from: "psy"
Quote from: "Che Gookin"
So what are the chances the old conviction gets overturned?
I'm not all that familiar with the case, but based on what I know, i'd say it's unlikely.  Trying to convince your average Joe that he was somehow coerced into making a confession requires more than a short lecture by Richard Ofshe, as good as he is.  People just don't understand coercive persuasion and most don't want to understand.  Most want to believe free will is inviolable and anything that threatens that assumption is too dangerous to consider.  Most will see him as troubled, having been put in a place for troubled kids because of that, and having gotten what he deserved.  The concept that in order to graduate from many programs you not only have to confess to things, but also believe them is just too foreign.

Psy, if you were to read the newspaper and magazine articles and the books written about this case you will see that Elan or the program (can't remember right now) he went to before Elan, there is very little talk about them. This murder took place (1975) 3 years earlier then when he got to Elan and he wasn't convicted until (2002) 27 years later. Coleman and Higgins admissions were just a part of the overall base of damaging evidence compiled against Mike.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: psy on April 26, 2013, 04:44:09 AM
Danny.  You might want to read the most recent page of the rules thread.  Rules have changed. You can't start (or finish) fights anymore.  Discuss the case without attacking others (even if they attack, you, leave that to me) or take your disagreements to Open Free for All.  Wayne already knows the rules have changed and calling somebody a "Moron" is unacceptable outside the Offa, though his post was made prior to the rules change.  I've moved your most recent post to the Offa as a result.

Learn to say "I disagree, and here's why..."  Attaching insults, insinuations, and accusations are unnecessary.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: none-ya. on April 26, 2013, 07:48:41 AM
The only thing relevant to Michael Skakel getting a new trial is whether or not Mickey Sherman was inadequate in his defense. That may very likely happen because there has to be some compelling evidence for them to have gotten this trial in the first place. I would say his chances are 50/50 based on that. A judge who heard the evidence agrees
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: DannyB II on April 26, 2013, 09:25:36 AM
Quote from: "psy"
Danny.  You might want to read the most recent page of the rules thread.  Rules have changed. You can't start (or finish) fights anymore.  Discuss the case without attacking others (even if they attack, you, leave that to me) or take your disagreements to Open Free for All.  Wayne already knows the rules have changed and calling somebody a "Moron" is unacceptable outside the Offa, though his post was made prior to the rules change.  I've moved your most recent post to the Offa as a result.

Learn to say "I disagree, and here's why..."  Attaching insults, insinuations, and accusations are unnecessary.

Okie Dokie!!!!
Title: On day 8 of Mike Skakel's trial he was quoted
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on May 01, 2013, 08:35:48 AM
In reference to wanting  his attorney Mickey Sherman to bring in an expert to discuss what Elan was, his quote is below and is;
"It was imperative because there's no logical way a person who has never been there could possibly comprehend the magnitude of the insanity that went on in such a place," Skakel said. "It was a mad house."

Matt Hoffman wrote:
I think either Paul Morantz or Richard Ofshe, both experts on cults, or the countless  Elan survivors that spoke out in condemnation of elans "insanity" could have offered a glimpse of what it was like to live in that "madhouse". It is surprising to me that Sherman did not try to show the " madhouse " that was life inside of Elan to the jury, maybe he was so overwhelmed, who can really speculate as to his reason for not doing this.

No doubt about this. You can definitely believe what Mike said as I recall Elan was a brutal, violent, sadistic, soul- eating hellhole. No person dancing on this planet could fathom what went on in that horror show of a clone of the cult Synanon.

The "insanity " that Elan offered as therapy and it's brutal tools of compliance that Joe Ricci and his henchmen that helped him run- this fraudulent treatment program- that were used on children and adults, (during my time) to make them fit his one size fits all program were I dare say absolutely criminal.

It now makes sense that when ever there was a state inspection that Elan and the directors that ran Elan control the "floorshow " as to what inspectors of any state were allowed to see, because the truth of what they were doing to children was criminal, and could have sent them all to prison while shutting down this amazing money generating cash cow, that was known as Elan.

Yet they demanded from us, the unfortunate residents, to be honest, in the face of fear from the pressures of emotional coercion, negative peer pressure, humiliation and always the threat of the use of assorted physical beatdowns that were unmercifully applied, regardless of the truth or the out come of lack of truth.

Yes Mike Skakel is correct no one on this planet unless they had the unfortunate experience of a few compared to the many of human beings that exist , could really understand what that soul eating hellhole (Elan) was really like.

And for some former residents it was much worse for they no longer dance on the face of earth, for just having come in contact with Joe Ricci and his program called Elan.

I am a survivor of this hellhole.

Matt Hoffman
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Che Gookin on May 03, 2013, 08:08:39 AM
I wonder though if they are calling on the right sort of witnesses. There are some decent expert witnesses they could call to testify that would go a long way in substantiating much of the crazy that was Elan.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on May 04, 2013, 08:08:39 AM
Che - We will now have to wait and see whether the judge in Mike Skakel's habeas corpus trial rules in favor of granting him a new trial.

It seems that there was some evidence that the prosecutors had sealed -regarding a psychological report  that I am not sure if Mickey Sherman knew exactly  what it contained - but never the less he did not persue it's contents.

Which goes along with Mike's  corpus trial arguements that his attorney Sherman- was an ineffective and incompetent lawyer who was more involved with the meadia circus atmosphere of the trial than instead of convincing a jury of twelve that there was reasonable doubt in regards to Mike's alledged guilt.

It is not a wonder that the states prosecuting attorney's wanted this report sealed-  it is something else- and why Sherman didn't persue it in  Mike's defense is as mysterious as the Higgs particle.

Judge Bishop has up to 120 days as of this past Tuesday to render his verdict, until then Mike  sits in the hoosegow wondering whether or not he gets a new trial.

And if it is granted then the prosecutors have to decide whether or not they want to try  Mike again, the whole thing is mind boggling.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Che Gookin on May 08, 2013, 08:44:06 PM
The wheels of justice turn slowly and all that.. probably feel even slower for the guy in prison.

Sorry to say, but I still can't make heads or tails of this whole thing.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on May 15, 2013, 08:47:16 PM
Interesting - the wheels of justice turn very slow- quite the opposite when someone is being railroaded. - at least they are turning.

http://www.greenwichtime.com/news/artic ... 516124.php (http://www.greenwichtime.com/news/article/Judge-state-must-turn-over-videos-to-Skakel-4516124.php)

I wonder what Ken Littleton has been doing with himself lately. Morrall's report on Ken Littleton is something I think Mickey Sherman would have wanted in his hands, it is not a wonder that to this day the assistant prosecutor Gill and special prosecutor Benedict still want that report sealed.

I sure hope some one follows up on Ken Littleton, he doesn't seem to be a happy soul.

lots of questions here.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about Elan
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on October 23, 2013, 06:18:35 PM

Judge Bishop has ordered a new trial for Michael Skakel.

http://www.greenwichtime.com/news/crime/article/Kennedy-cousin-Skakel-wins-new-trial-in-1975-death-4920472.php (http://www.greenwichtime.com/news/crime/article/Kennedy-cousin-Skakel-wins-new-trial-in-1975-death-4920472.php)

Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about Elan
Post by: Che Gookin on October 24, 2013, 06:15:22 AM
I hope he gets a fair hearing this time around. Best of luck to him.
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about Elan
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on October 24, 2013, 11:07:52 AM
Here is the link to Judge Thomas bishop’s ruling concerning Michael Skakel’s  heabas corpus trial.

http://apublicdefender.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/skakel-habeas.pdf (http://apublicdefender.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/skakel-habeas.pdf)


Interesting long legal rendering - parts are surprising to me like not having an expert to testify as to what Elan was ( a Synanon comparable/based center or worse as Dr. Ofshe the cult expert testified), and in Judge Bishop's opinion this would not have influenced the out come of the verdict - Slightly baffling to me.

I believe it would have certainly given the jury a better context as to just what the hell went on in that place during that time of Elan's historical context - and what was happening to M. Skakel at the time, who knows how it may have affected  a verdict.

-Still- far and wide Sherman was certainly an ineffective counsel at best for a person being charged with such a serious crime and I am glad that Judge Bishop recognized this in his verdict of this Habeas corpus trial.
Title: Michael Skakel made bail today
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on November 21, 2013, 12:55:45 PM
Today Michael Skakel made bail - It is wonderful - considering that he has had his conviction overturned, from his previous 2002 trial.

This  is a very rare occurance in any habeas corpus trial. I am very glad that common sense has  prevailed in this case. I do not believe that the prosecutors will be successful in their apeal of Judge Bishop's ruling - though it has been said "that stranger things have happened".

I would hope that the state of Conn. would spend their taxpayer's monies more wisely - than they did by sending their state wards ( children) to Elan for imo fraudulent therapy. Maybe instead of wasting more money on prosecuting  Michael Skakel the state of Conn. could try to get their taxpayers money back from Elan - by way of asking the Federal Justice Department to begin an investigation into elan and the state of Maine  for imo running a continuing criminal enterprise for close to 40 years.

It would only take one state to start the federal investigation - though there are more states that imo were  also defrauded of their taxpayers monies.

This would be a great first step in righting a terrible wrong which was done by the state of Maine by allowing elan to function imo as a continuing criminal enterprise for close to 40 years. Sadistic criminal child abuse is not therapy and that is what elan provide imo for many state's wards for their taxpayer's hard earned  dollars. It really is a no brainer - we are talking about fraud on a grand abusive scale.

Still it is a very good day for Michael Skakel and his family and I think justice is finally starting to be  served.   

http://www.greenwichtime.com/local/article/Skakel-a-free-man-bond-set-at-1-2M-4998501.php (http://www.greenwichtime.com/local/article/Skakel-a-free-man-bond-set-at-1-2M-4998501.php)

Title: It has been two years since Michael Skakel was released
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on November 21, 2015, 09:59:04 PM
 

Well, well, well- two years have passed, and the prosecution, (on the day Mr.Skakel was released, vowed to appeal ) and if that doesn't fix it the way they want it over there in that sad state of Connecticut which shipped many a state child to the Elan Corporation/school – located  in Poland Springs Maine, said that they would, if the appeal failed ( concerning his habeas corpus trial resulting in the  verdict of his "release " )  that these sharpshootin prosecutors would  then simply re-try him.

Damn that was sure a long dang sentence.

All this pep rally talk and blustering by the prosecution has really only resulted in an appeal filed recently, this past September  to be exact, by the prosecutor finally appealing his Habeas Corpus trial's verdict – just this past September mind you – and according to a writer by the name of Mr.  Marchant who hacks for the Greenwich Times this past October 29th, 2015 – Mr. Marchant wrote in his article that the prosecutors are appealing Judge Thomas Bishop's ruling that because Mr. Skakel paid 1.5 million dollars for his defense- then and therefore it must be found that Mr. Skakel had competent legal counsel.

- oh my -

I laughed  hard when I read Mr. Marchant's words – it was the only redeeming part about his article that I found not to be  pure tacky tabloid journalism.

Soo-ooo- the prosecutors are appealing this verdict on simply the amount of money spent – too freaking comical – if it weren't such a sad and tragic case – the death of a little girl.

It behooves the state of Connecticut's prosecutors to read Judge Thomas Bishop's 136 page ruling supporting his rendering of his verdict in throwing out Mr. Skake'ls murder conviction – it has nothing to do with the monies spent – lol.

It is absurd to base an appeal on a case based on the amount of monies spent by a  defendant on any case – because sometimes, as in this case, as exhibited by Judge Bishop's  136 page abstract supporting his ruling -it was obvious that the defendant did not have competent legal representation and money had nothing to do with the Honorable Judge Bishop's ruling .

Is the state of Connecticut just dragging their heels- or do they simply don't have a case.

I would post Mr. Marchants article from the  October 29, Greenwich Times  here – but I won't because for some reason  the  Greenwich Times still perpetuates the lie, and myth, that the three former residents that were with Mr. Skakel (in Elan), and testified against Mr. Skakel in his original trial in 2002 were in an actual school, called Elan.

And that could not be further from the truth – Elan, located in Poland Springs, Maine was no school by any stretch of anyone's imagination, it was however in my opinion and many other former residents – opinions, a protected continuing criminal enterprise, that existed for close to forty years.

It really is the time for the State of Connecticut to quit wasting their states taxpayer's monies on this case concerning Mr. Skakel and ask the DoJ to begin an investigation into those in Maine State Government that protected, aided and abetted  this imo criminal enterprise that lasted for closed to forty years and also investigate and prosecute the adults that ran Elan  with and for Joe Ricci, as it operated in my opinion as a continuing criminal enterprise for close to forty years.

The DoJ has a tool called the "Rico Act" in it's investigative and prosecutorial "toolbox", and  it is high time that the criminals in Maine state  government that protected Elan and aided and abetted Elan – as well as the adult untrained miscreant criminals that ran that brutal ,violent, sadistic soul eating hellhole, by simply directing the "residents" to abuse the living daylights out of each other  on a daily basis while fraudulently taking many states tax payer's monies,  many insurance company's monies, and many hard earned parent's monies, due to deceptive marketing practices that simply used serial sadistic and violent  criminal child abuse as therapy – be investigated by the DoJ and prosecuted by the DoJ using the Rico Act.

It is nothing but a win -win case for the DoJ – and the best thing is it doesn't matter that Elan is closed – the Rico Act can reach back many many years.  Joe Ricci began his scam, of criminally abusing children back in the early 70's. His hell hole only recently closed in 2011. At least put the imo  adult criminals that made life long careers out of serially abusing children in prison where they belong – where they may hopefully live out  long natural  lives- in agony like they subjected the " Elan residents" to their sick torture that they fraudulently made monies on for close to forty years.

Man, it is time that justice be found for the many survivors of that insidiously sick fraudulent criminal enterprise, called Elan, that made Joe Ricci tens of millions of dollars.

Talk about justice dragging it's heels- jeezzz.

             

     
Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about Elan
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on December 08, 2015, 06:21:24 PM
An aside -

and I write -  I hope people are really reading and comprehending what is written  - maybe Oscar will cut and paste this "current news" story where ever he goes like he does here  , do it Oscar because you also want to see justice for Philip Williams  - he died after a "hot Box" session in Elan on 12-27-82.

There is no statute of limits on murder in the U.S. - sure it was the Elan Corporation and its practices that killed him , maybe that adds a quirk to the story though then again murder is murder -Corporation or not .

carry on

Matt 
Title: Skakel's sentance is vacated.
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on May 04, 2018, 06:52:51 PM
This is a big Deal - Michael Skakel has had his conviction overturned by the Connecticut Supreme court - It is unclear , at this point if prosecutors are going to file for another trial.

I hope the Department of Justice looks into the deal - Connecticut CPS/CJJS had with Joe Ricci and the amount of money that state paid Joe for participating in his well protected by Maine folks -elected officials - Joes continuing criminal enterprise known as the Elan School- It ran for forty years - Connecticut sent thousands of children to Elan. 
Title: Re: Skakel's sentance is vacated.
Post by: Eliscu2 on May 14, 2018, 05:17:07 AM
This is a big Deal - Michael Skakel has had his conviction overturned by the Connecticut Supreme court - It is unclear , at this point if prosecutors are going to file for another trial.

I hope the Department of Justice looks into the deal - Connecticut CPS/CJJS had with Joe Ricci and the amount of money that state paid Joe for participating in his well protected by Maine folks -elected officials - Joes continuing criminal enterprise known as the Elan School- It ran for forty years - Connecticut sent thousands of children to Elan.

I just read this article in The New York Post where the Author referred to Elan as "a posh reform school in Maine" :o
It's in the opinion section.
Skakel’s tossed conviction just another example of Kennedy privilege
https://nyp.st/2FSJ9bm (https://nyp.st/2FSJ9bm)

Title: Re: New Skakel trial likely to call expert to testify about Elan
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on May 15, 2018, 05:19:59 PM
Ms Callahan treads a line of fiction that is libelous and slanderous - where in the world did she find that the perpetrator had placed their semen on the remains - Jesus for the last time , there was not one scintilla of direct evidence linking Mr. Skakel to the crime. Her whole premise is that people with money get treated differently , though in this case , one could argue because of money justice was not served - and my point is

Mrs. Maureen Callahan does not know about the sheet that was found  " loving placed over Martha Moxley's remains by - some one unknown after the fact , huh, and there was no biologics  of Mr. Skakels found on anything including the sheet, nor the body.  I am also surprised at how some one has apparently given up - that maybe the jig is up. Therefore why repeat something that is known to be false.

She has to boister the lie of this Camelot by stating that Elan was a posh ( hahahahahaha) place , which is funny considering how many thousands of Connecticut's, New York's , Massachusetts , state wards were processed thru this brutal ,broke down palace, of a well protected criminal enterprise, where attack therapy akin to torture was used by  the adults that ran that hell hole, as they criminally  warehoused children under the guise of  therapy. and for a hefty profit . Since these adult employees directed us, the residents, to abuse each other on a daily basis. Posh no it was eat or be eaten /or life during Wartime. Nothing therapeutic about Elan, imo it was the biggest criminal scam to have existed in the State of Maine for close to forty years.

Felice and then I inquired -you know inquiring minds want to know - The NY post is a rag that is a akin  to that of other super market tabloids - so why would there be any  imo fact in this prattle of this woman's obvious premise  to maintain the status Quo of the Kennedys, as untouchable which is not true -a man with money was still was railroaded into prison - while apparently the killer who imo also has money as  well, remains free. - A death  bed confession, at this point would not surprise me.
Title: Re: Michael Skakel update.
Post by: Matt C. Hoffman on January 08, 2019, 08:25:03 AM
Per the United States  Supreme court. Michael Skakel is a free man .


https://www.mercurynews.com/2019/01/07/michael-skakel-free-supreme-court-wont-hear-case/



Odd as a parent - I don't understand Mrs. Moxley's reaction. (It is false that Connecticut had an very very good  case at  against Mr. Skakel, which is obvious to anyone  paying attention cept Ms. Moxley.  money  had nothing to do with it -  truth and justice did and does .   Her reaction to me is odd ,unless  she knows who lovingly placed in a nurturing a fashion the bed sheet that covered her daughters body after the incident. Ya who was it, Danny Bennison said one time that stranger things have happened - in this case  I wouldn't be surprised . )


Good luck Mr. Skakel - hopefully you will not waste the rest of your life and will work with Elan survivors to expose the generational corruption  that allowed a criminal enterprise to exists in the State of Maine for close to forty years.


Now it is time to get justice for Phil Williams a ward of the State of Maine who died after complaining of headaches , and instead of seeing a nurse was put into the infamous ring ,and received a beat down session that truncated this 15 and half year old ward of the state of Maines life on December 27 ,1982. 


This case was never investigated properly, then nor 34 years later when the facts could not be denied anymore and an investigation was finally started in this young mans death on March 13 2016 - yet in my opinion the powers of generational corruption found no wrong doing after 10 months of a scam of an investigation that ended on Feb. of 2017,  concluding there is insufficient  evidence to proceed with indictments - yet there are 6 plus eyeball witnesses to this event.


Surreal .