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16
Addiction Treatment Philosophy / Letter toThe National Council Of Juvenile and Family
« on: August 01, 2012, 03:38:50 PM »
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Letter toThe National Council Of Juvenile and Fami
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Letter toThe National Council Of Juvenile and Fami

Postby massive » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:45 am
This is the letter I wrote and sent to them yesterday. I plan to go to their next event Anyone want to meet me there?

Dear Staff,


I am interested in getting involved with educating Judges, Lawyers, Parole Officers and all those who attend your conference next year, 2013.

I am the Founder of a Grass Roots Movement I began in California in the fall of 2009.

I am still in the process of creating the non profit which will be created for a more empowering modality to help youth with drug or alcohol over use problems.
Stopping the cycle of addicted to this...addict to that..., power less this , powerless that! Probably, not a good idea...

Myself and many others have come to the conclusion that 12 step meetings, which do not have any safety measures in place, nor is AA World Service in NYC or Narcotics Anonymous World Service NAWS in Los Angeles, CA office, willing to take any action to provide any safety for youth or any member or the innocent citizens being sentenced to 12 step meeting in great numbers by judges , drug courts and lawyers.

If you do not know this;

Both AA and NA do NOT have any trained leaders or facilitators. Its basically the blind leading the blind.

Recently in the news it has finally been reported that a minor was molested in an AA meeting in Nashville and ABC NEWS reporter out of Denver this past February that a woman was sexually assaulted by her AA sponsor who had assaulted other woman as well.

There is no such thing as a young people's meeting. There are no rules, no procedures or policies to protect any minor or any member. Unlike SMART Recovery which is a non religious, science based free program that has sexual harassment polices and Trained facilitators.

Young people's meetings are just called that, but there is nothing to keep a 3rd level sex offender from going there and becoming a sponsor or a leader (Secretary of a meeting) etc.

As a previous long term member I am actively trying to educate these professionals how dangerous AA and NA are. Not just to new comer women of any age, but to gays and especially young minors are targeted by middle aged men. The average unsuspecting citizen who is trying to get out of jail accepts the illegal mandate (there are already a number of states that have deemed AA/NA too religious yet our judges who I know are actually in AA themselves are sending innocent citizens into the horrible halls of 12 step.) These citizens are willing to go to AA meetings because they are so frightened of being sent to jail.

Meanwhile the judges are sending 3rd level sex offenders and violent criminals to the same meetings. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE WE ASK?

Are the judges and lawyers all really not aware of how AA and NA really do not work?... and, that AA and NA have no rules ....no policies about sexual harassment?

In fact AA as part of it's culture is known for it's blatant sexual harassment aka "13 stepping" by older middle age respected men in AA who use their position and power for free sexual pleasure. Many leave AA and drink and commit suicide because of this predation ....

I have been documenting the atrocities going on in AA and NA now since 2009. I have written two 10 page letters to NY General Service Office of Alcoholics Anonymous. The Second letter was signed by 20 AA members who are furious about the situation currently in place.

It is only a matter of time when there will be a huge lawsuit against this giant institution and we would like to begin a dialogue with you and all the professionals you speak to and educate.

I have a radio show called Safe Recovery on blog talk radio with some 20,000 listens. The internet has given us a place to commune and express our horror on how the Criminal Justice System is handling Drug and alcohol and youth, this also includes adults being sent to AA/NA as well.

Using an abstinence based model for youth is also a lose lose situation for most creating a deadly cycle of failure and relapse over and over again.

Never mind to mention the antiquated 1935 literature and mind set of powerlessness and religious dogma being "pushed " by our Federal and State governments breaking our First Amendment Rights.


There are already many other budding programs. But none have ever gotten the free publicity AA has gotten in our media. This is changing and I hope we can discuss how we can stop this horrible cycle I see every day on the anti 12 step blogs.

Sincerely,

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Re: Letter toThe National Council Of Juvenile and Fami

Postby mfc66 » Wed Aug 01, 2012 7:37 am
Thats a great letter! thanks again for all your hard work



mfc66, it is not a great letter and you know it. She should have gone on google and searched for an independent editor. This letter needed to be edited in the worse way. She sounded like she was uneducated and ignorant to boot.
This cult you have created needs enablers, you are making sure this action will happen.
mfc66 is the owner/admin of the site recoveringfromrecovery.
When the heck are you anti's going to get it through your heads. The outrageous shit you post on your site http://recoveringfromrecovery.com/forum ... f=14&t=430 it isn't helping your cause. Ignorant unedited articles written by uneducated members with wild ideas isn't going to get it.
Get your fucking act together, mfc66. Stop worrying about if everyone can skype and pay more attention to poignant content.

17
Addiction Treatment Philosophy / X-Sponsor & AA friends calling & coming by
« on: August 01, 2012, 03:25:16 PM »
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X-Sponsor & AA friends calling & coming by
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X-Sponsor & AA friends calling & coming by

Postby rainbow » Mon May 28, 2012 5:12 am
OK, so I know I'm an intelligent woman, who can make up my own mind to do things & I can make my own decisions, but I could really use some advice right now. My x-sponsor called tonight. I panicked when I saw it was her on the caller ID, and I let it go to the answering machine. Now, I really do like this woman in many ways, but I don't really want to talk to her yet. I'm not ready. Hmm, I guess that's my answer right there, huh? AA has worked for her for 33 years, and I'm really happy it does -- for her. I kind of feel like a chicken-$hit for not calling her anymore -- have only called her once, and I did it when I knew she was at work & I left a message.

A few of my AA friends have come by and -- some of them I will see -- but then other times I pretend that I'm not home. Curtains shut & quiet as a mouse I am until they leave. It's because I'm scared of some of them. Afraid they'll try to sway me back into their rooms. Afraid they'll start in on their cult talk & propaganda & Guilt. They can't sway me -- I'm done. There's no going back. I think I just need some time. I sure do feel like a chicken right now, though. :| Or maybe I'm just protecting myself. X-sponsor said she hoped I was doing well (and I am). She said she hopes we can connect up again soon...or maybe someday. Maybe. I dunno just yet.

Tonight was birthday night. My friend Diana celebrated her 25th year of sobriety. She came over the other day, we talked, she asked if I was coming to the birthday. I told her I was very proud of her & happy for her, but I just can't go back to that fellowship. She understood. She doesn't exactly enjoy herself there either, she confided. She takes what she needs from there & has a way of leaving the BS there.

When friends ask me why I walked out, I've been real careful to not bash AA or call it a cult to them. I respect their decision to go there. If it works for them, great. But if it isn't working for them, all I can do is hope they wake up & see the Truth someday.

bock bock bock
It's time to OCCUPY AA.

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Re: X-Sponsor & AA friends calling & coming by

Postby btnben » Mon May 28, 2012 10:51 am
It's not easy rainbow - especially at the start. Remember, you are just one person and AA has 75 years of propaganda behind it and a lot of devout followers. I think this is a great topic, because, often when people leave AA they leave the major part of their social life behind. It's not easy in the early days.

I found that the best way was to say nothing until asked. If someone then asked why I didn't go to meetings I simply said I thought it was rubbish. Obviously, how I said "rubbish" depended on who it was and how much I wanted to wind them up - no-one said I had to be perfect :D

The word quickly gets around and people leave you alone. Remember all the "love bombing" when you first went to AA? Just see how many AA friends remain after you leave. I think they call it "true colours" don't they? :evil:

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Re: X-Sponsor & AA friends calling & coming by

Postby istj04 » Mon May 28, 2012 10:04 pm
The ones who are "stalking you" (for lack of a better term!) are doing so because they want to see if YOU ARE STILL SOBER (they believe the bullshit, that you can't be sober OUTSIDE the "rooms", "at a meeting", or engaging in the 24-7 co-dependance that IS "12-Steppism". All you have to do to keep the "cultists" away is:

1.) Inform them that you NO LONGER MEET MEMBERSHIP CRITERIA ("Desire to stop drinking") as you have ALREADY STOPPED, STAYED STOPPED, and ARE CONTINUING TO STAY STOPPED!

2.) Remain sober. Now! Now! And NOW!

3.) If they keep coming by, then THREATEN THEM WITH ALCOHOL! Put it on your front doorstep, and tell them they must drink it before they come in, or ring your doorbell, or call you! ;) Then if they do, laugh and point at them because YOU STAYED SOBER, and THEY DID NOT! ;) Then tell them to get their asses to the co-dependent, cultist "meeting" that they clearly have no life without! And to never call you again. You outrank them. You are INDEPENDENT AND SOBER! They are not, will not, and cannot be, or remain such!

4.) Film/record whatever interaction you have with these people, and put it on You Tube, thus BLOWING THEIR "ANONYMITY", and exposing them for the cultists they are! That ought to stop them!

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Re: X-Sponsor & AA friends calling & coming by

Postby Dare031 » Tue May 29, 2012 1:53 am
When I broke from the cult, I told my sponsor that his services as such, were not required any longer. I also told him that if he wanted to talk fishing, cars, or sports, it was cool with me. He intially wanted to know how my dry drunk was going. I firmly informed him that I was no longer a member, and that the condition of not discussing AA was NOT negotiable. Long story short, both he and my former cult members simply faded away into history. I no longer wanted what they had, and they went away. Not answering your door, or telephone, is not cowardly. It is totally your right not to answer both your door, and your phone. Nobody owns you. Take your time. You own no one an explanation. Your life is your business. Take care of yourself. :D
Blind respect for authority is the greatest enemy of truth. - Dr. Albert Einstein

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Re: X-Sponsor & AA friends calling & coming by

Postby teatotaler » Tue May 29, 2012 6:16 pm

    istj04 wrote:The ones who are "stalking you" (for lack of a better term!) are doing so because they want to see if YOU ARE STILL SOBER (they believe the bullshit, that you can't be sober OUTSIDE the "rooms", "at a meeting", or engaging in the 24-7 co-dependance that IS "12-Steppism". All you have to do to keep the "cultists" away is:

    1.) Inform them that you NO LONGER MEET MEMBERSHIP CRITERIA ("Desire to stop drinking") as you have ALREADY STOPPED, STAYED STOPPED, and ARE CONTINUING TO STAY STOPPED!

    2.) Remain sober. Now! Now! And NOW!

    3.) If they keep coming by, then THREATEN THEM WITH ALCOHOL! Put it on your front doorstep, and tell them they must drink it before they come in, or ring your doorbell, or call you! ;) Then if they do, laugh and point at them because YOU STAYED SOBER, and THEY DID NOT! ;) Then tell them to get their asses to the co-dependent, cultist "meeting" that they clearly have no life without! And to never call you again. You outrank them. You are INDEPENDENT AND SOBER! They are not, will not, and cannot be, or remain such!

    4.) Film/record whatever interaction you have with these people, and put it on You Tube, thus BLOWING THEIR "ANONYMITY", and exposing them for the cultists they are! That ought to stop them!




THAT IS AWESOME!!! If I could scream with laughter and shout, "Right on!" so that it could be heard all across this country, I would! I esp. love that part about putting alcohol on the doorstep and telling them they have to drink it as a requirement to even ring the doorbell! :lol: :D :!: Also, they are still cult members. IMO, no one owes those cultists a darned thing - not a phone call, not a contact, not even a final "Goodbye, good luck, and goddamn ya!" (Well, maybe that last part...LOL). I view them as cult members when they were in their ROOMZ, and they are still cult members outside of their ROOMZ - yep, that even includes running into them at the grocery store. Here's a zinger that works for me if, for some reason, they try to talk to me. I look them in the eye like they are excrement, and I say: "You must be mistaking me for someone else." I haven't run into many of them over the last year or so, but if they try to talk to me, their "serenity" WILL get disturbed! No cultist has any individual's best interests at heart - it doesn't matter what they say or how "nice" they act (see "love-bombing" in istjo4's post). IMO, your safety and well-being - on all levels - comes FIRST! Sorry for rambling on. Peace. :)

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Re: X-Sponsor & AA friends calling & coming by

Postby massive » Wed May 30, 2012 6:08 am
OMG RAINBOW what a fantastic post! I was laughing so hard at some of the great feedback you were given here as well. I think you know whats right. Stay away and get strong so when you want, not when they demand it, you will know what exactly to say in time.

When I left, a few contacted me through facebook saying they missed me there and it wasnt the same without me but they did not even pick up the phone. Maybe 4 are really friends in a room filled with 40-50 a night. Only one called me on the phone. I was not surprised. They became to ice me out 8 months prior over the Make AA Safer Issue that a group of us worked really hard on.

But when I left, I had been planning my escape for months, about 4 to be exact. I debated just leaving without saying anything.
Its not my style. So IN january of 2011 I started going every other week to the only meeting I went to ...a women's stagg. We did alot of the Make AA Safer stuff together so they knew what I went through as a GSR. I started going to Smart meetings and I would share about SMart and Orange papers every time I shared. Always a few women would come up to me asking me about " what is that Smart thing you talked about" I was planting seeds on purpose.

I took my last cake in early May. I asked someone to do the treasury for me every other week. And for the first time I didnt care or feel guilty. It was fantastic to feel this way after 36 years of feeling so obligated to AA to be of service. Bloggers on ST debated whether I would really leave. I had alot of support from that blog. Thanks Ilse and Mark for that too.

So that last night in May 2011, I waited till the last share, and I raised my hand and I say "Im done. I had it. That AA is so full of shit and NY AA and the area I no longer believed in any of it and that I was gonna go to Smart and I felt like my youth was stolen from me" ...on and on I went. I felt so relieved.
(really I only spoke for 3 minutes) they have a timer there... LOL There were actually some tearful women, some phoney smiles, some genuine hugs, some ignored me and passed me by. Overall it was really good. I felt great. I left there with my head held high! I did not give a fuck. I had done so much fucking service in AA in was pathetic.

Thank God I believe in some Buddhist aspects so now I believe none of that service was wasted . It was done for me, my children and my family. No genuine service that we do for mankind is ever wasted. ( now that is another big lie they tell newcomers. That we have to be of service to stay sober....that is Bullshit!)

But at first RAINBOW I was furious about the amount of time I was in AA and what a fool, koolaid drinking BB thumber /sponsor I was. Although I like to think I was special and did believe in therapy and every type of outside work possible. Clara from op I was never :)

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Re: X-Sponsor & AA friends calling & coming by

Postby massive » Wed May 30, 2012 6:15 am
istg04 btbben all of you had me laughing on the floor! Thanks for this thread rainbow ;)

oh yea , then I went to Hawaii in the summer and invited all my old best buds to dinner. Usually I had a little AA meeting in my house. Instead we ate, then while having dessert I said I have an annoucement. I have left AA and this is why. I pulled out my Make AA Safer pamphlet and my newest postcard which says

"Is 12 Step not working for you"? and the list of non 12 step choices on the back.

They all laughed and said, Thats Monica! a rebel still at heart. I have know them since I was 18 and they are real friends. But that was back then in the 70's. One friend has a husband who is not my friend and he sad there with that stupid judgmental face. I will never invite him again.

sorry so long .....

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Re: X-Sponsor & AA friends calling & coming by

Postby nieko » Wed May 30, 2012 7:03 am
Oh this one did make me laugh!

Since I left in January I've had a few of them call me, I tell them various things depending on how I'm feeling at the time.
It was the CA world convention not so far from me the weekend just gone, Chris R and a load of crazies from Primary Purpose where there apparently, I was gonna go, just on the Saturday and mostly for the dance, my ex-sponsor sent me a text on the Saturday morning, I haven't spoken with her in months.
All the text said was something like "hi, are you coming to the convention" (I even got a kiss on the end of the text, love bombing?) just the idea of seeing her and hearing people talking about inventory and resentments and trying to out "well" each other, it is CA afterall, made me decide I just couldn't face it.

I don't think you were a chicken, I think you were exercising some discernment, there's no reasoning with some of them, especially the ones who are super programmed. Some of them are okay but they speak riddles. The term "ex" implies ex for a reason, move house, or put electric fence around it or yeah, leave liquor on the doorstep - I particularly liked that one!

The step 10 promises have not yet been 100% fulfilled for me as regards steppers, yes, I recoil from them as from a hot flame but I am not in a position of neutrality, safe and protected by ashtray God, the problem has not yet been removed, I've just removed myself from the problem.

Remember it's not their fault, they were born that way ;) it's amazing they can even make it to your doorstep considering they are "men who have had their legs cut off" - wow to think of all that paper they're going to have to waste writing inventory on you...
People come and go so quickly around here - Dorothy Gale

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Re: X-Sponsor & AA friends calling & coming by

Postby Vicky345uk » Wed Aug 01, 2012 1:02 am
I remember going see chris raymer at Denmark convention, what a fucking insulting moron. GDP I hate those people

Xx

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Re: X-Sponsor & AA friends calling & coming by

Postby dorak nob » Wed Aug 01, 2012 3:44 am
after leaving AA got really drunk one night, one night. So next day get a call from concerned AA friend. How the hell did he know what the hell I was up to? Then I remembered at the time my wife was in Al Anon , she had a sponsor. So happy she quit that crazy making cult, I swear I would quit every substance know to man or woman to keep my wife from Al Anon. She doesn't need any part of Bill Wilsons guilt inducing cult, what the hell I was the one that got drunk.


Now, you tell me? Who has the ego problem here. STFU!!!!

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Addiction Treatment Philosophy / I'm in the camp that doesn't believe it's a religious cult
« on: August 01, 2012, 03:09:09 PM »
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Re: AA Wants To Erase You!

Postby kehsciences » Fri Jun 22, 2012 11:11 pm

    Primrose wrote:It's not just a religious cult. It is a pick up joint and a social club.



I'm in the camp that doesn't believe it's a religious cult (AA is far too boring and the people far too unreliable) but wholeheartedly agree that, if you're looking for a quick screw or a place to meet a bunch of grumpy people with absolutely no interest in anything remotely original, AA is tops. It's also a fine place to get insulted and, my personal favorite, feel just as out-of-place as you may have before. You know, one of the reasons why you may have picked up drinking in the first place. Only in AA it's your doing: step up and meet the grumpy folk, you self-centered f*ck.

I am, of course, bearer of the Self-Centered F*ck label. And, like others that have their sanity in mind, I find the things that got me labeled as an AA Outsider ("Go drink up, bitch. We'll welcome you back. Research! Do your research! See you in a bit... if you're lucky!") are the same things that got me a good education and other burdens of ambition and effort. The hell do I know, though? I'm just one guy.

Well good for you. I am sure then, you will not be overwhelmed by this new cult you just joined, RFR.

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Addiction Treatment Philosophy / The local whacko on RFR- AA Wants To Erase You!
« on: August 01, 2012, 02:58:26 PM »
Quote
AA Wants To Erase You!

Postby Gunthar2000 » Tue May 29, 2012 2:11 am
Be sure you know what you are doing before you get involved with these people... they hate you the way you are and, make no mistake about it, they want to change everything about you. Why? Because you are not good enough for their God.

What do they want to turn you into?... A slogan spouting moron who spends every night in a dirty church basement pissing and moaning about your character defects, and how only AA can cure you. The ultimate goal??? They want you to be recruiter for their very creepy and strange way of living.

AA is a religious cult dressed up to look like a treatment for alcoholism. Their cure is for you to turn your life and your will over to God. This is not a legitimate treatment for anything. The whole thing is a big fat mess of bunk. You can do better than what they have to offer.

Yes, Gunthar. The message of AA crawls into your brain like a termite, gnawing away at the brain flesh, creating a cavity, so a cache of brainwashing thoughts can be deposited. What a fucking nut, please for christ sake stay on your meds.

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Addiction Treatment Philosophy / Going back to a meeting
« on: August 01, 2012, 02:52:42 PM »
Quote
Going back to a meeting

Postby BB Kate » Wed Aug 01, 2012 8:16 am
I have an AA "friend" with whom i spent much time deprogramming. He was pretty close to elaving altogether, but decided to go to 1 meeting a week, for social reasons.

He saw no harm in it, didn't see it a hypocritical etc etc. "That's all well and good", i said. "But I coudln't do it. I don't want to have any association with AA whatsoever."

The thing is, he regularly says to me that i should go back to a meeting, just to see what it's like, laugh at it etc. BUt i have been quite clear with him about this - i woudl rather chew my arm off than go back, listen to the rhetoric, be subjected to the false smiles/serenity/gratitude etc.

I think he wants a partner in crime, which i understand. There was a time when i wanted to go to an Anniversary meeting, brag about being sober without AA, eat all their chicken wings and egg sandwiches and leave. But the thought of it now makes me feel sick.

BB Kate

Well, wasn't this a fabulous story, there missy. Now STFU!!! I sure your friend gets more out of AA than you ever have. Stop bugging him about going to AA meeting, BB Kate.

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Addiction Treatment Philosophy / 12 Step Gang Stalking in NA & AA
« on: July 26, 2012, 02:42:06 PM »
This is JR Harris (from Stinkin Thinkin)....lmao. People this can only come from his brain.





12 Step Gang Stalking in NA & AA
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12 Step Gang Stalking in NA & AA

Postby JR Harris » Thu Jul 26, 2012 2:56 pm
This is a very good post describing 12 Step Gang Stalking in NA & AA entitled "Psychological Violence. Example: 12 Step Meetings/Recovery."

Highly recommended and very true.....

    Psychological Violence. Example: 12 Step Meetings/Recovery

    November 12, 2006 in Alcoholics Anonymous, crime, Gang Stalking, psychology, recovery, Street Harassment | 23 comments

    Terror stalking is done at AA meetings, targeting individuals who are innocent people and victims of either cult revenge or a wider phenomena known as multistalking. Through a carefully worked out scheme that involves seating arrangements, and crafted posturing by AA/NA memebers, and stalking, along with carefully directed discussion or monologues, the individual who is the target of this psychological violence is led into feelings of unease, unsettleness, and anxiety. This is usually done after a target has been slandered, and a senitization of the slander theme has been done to the target.

    The criminals involved in this psychological violence will have debilitated the victims self confidence und undermined the victims psychology, prior to the meeting by using senitizations related to themes of a slandering campaign, subtle disrespects and an array of covert harassment techniques that may include taste alterations of drinks served at the meeting, or directed converstaions with the victim before the meeting. Overall, the victim will have been conditioned to feel a heightened level of self-conscious and unease, thus laying the ground work for the person to appear unsettled when certain planned topics or words are said in the meeting during the open disscussion monologues.

    All this is done to discredit the victim of this crime, in a carefully planned and executed psychological assault.

    The person will typically have been labeled, through slander, as having hidden dark secrets, or as having committed some heinous crime, to members of the meeting who are not part of the psychological harassment activity, and have no knowledge of it . These members of the meeting, who may include members of a neighborhood watch, will be asked by those perpetrating the harassment , to observe the target when a monologue uses certain words, or when it goes into or touches on certain topics that are associated with the the content of the slander.

    All that is told to these people, the on lookers and recipients of the slander, is that certain topics will be brought up on purpose to see whether the person, the victim, has some reaction. The victim, being senitized to these topics related to the slander, through an array of psychological harassments, in a on going campaing over a long period of time, is utterly defenseless.

    After such a well crafted psychological staging, the victim appears, in the eyes of these, perhaps invited on lookers, in the meeting, to have commited some crime, for the victim will appear to have some sensitivity to the topics chosen, thus leading people to believe the slander. Typically, the victims in these assults are innocent people, who’s lives are being trashed and wrecked by criminals, memeber of AA/NA, or fellow clients within recovery facilities.

    The recovery industry, Alcoholics Anonymous, and other 12 Step Groups seem to be arenas where the phenomena of terror stalking is able to be orchestrated with precision. The moral health of many people in recovery has been battered through years of lying, cheating, stealing, and other criminal activity. They can easily be led into the activities of terror stalking, cult revenge, and covert harassment. The victims of these crimes commited in 12 Step Groups, AA, and the recovery industry are usually helpless. Having no way to defend themselves from the slander, and victims of the covert psychological harassments that are done to substantiate the slander, over a long period of time, they become the weak, preyed upon by vicious criminally inclined people, who by acting as a group, are not only veiled from any possible acknowledgement of the terrible wrong commited against an innocent defenseless person, but are vindicated from any guilt that may derive from taking pleasures in such a dirty crime.

    The substantiations of the slander that result from the craft of psychological sensitization and staged assults in a structured environment, are shallow and weak. None the less people are suffering and their lives are being destroyed by a groups of people who validate some false moral reformation that they seemingly have been brought through the groups ethos of AA/NA, by stalking, harassing and partaking in psychological violence directed at defenseless innocent people, who become targets of hate.

    This hate serves to galvanize the groups as a whole, creating the impression of having great power and total control. In addictions, as admitted in the 12 steps of AA, these people are powerless over a substance, or some may interpret it as a powerlessness over the addiction, and that they have no control within their lives. Seems to be that these people have issues with control and power.

    Unity in the destructive hate crime of terror stalking, covertly done, gives them a sense of total control, and great power, in that the victim is turely at their mercy, defenseless. AA unity also creates a shared element where all have seemingly come out of a past life that was founded on deficiencies in moral character, and now share the glory of sobriety, which to many of these people means their moral character is mystically revamped. The hidden aspect of the exercises of terror stalking lend greatly to such a people.

    Through heinous psychological violence perpetrated on an innocent person, these memebrs achieve a sense of moral uprightness that could not be achieved in the world outside of AA, or the recovery industry. AA/NA and the recovery community is a safe haven for people who have long sorted pasts, and are morally corrupt. The facilities of the recovery community and meetings of AA/NA are all places where terror stalking can be carefully planned and done, to innocent people with little defense. Is this not a kind of rape, a violent act in which power is used to do great harm, injury and injustice, to the defenseless.

    Links

    http://www.psychologicalharassment.com/index.htm

    http://magic-city-news.com/printer_6147.shtml

    http://www.multistalkervictims.org/

    minigh d. (waterinch)



Source:https://formationquay.wordpress.com/

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Re: 12 Step Gang Stalking in NA & AA

Postby mfc66 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:28 pm
Thanks for this post, quite a lot to think about here. I do feel that many are empowered in a groups and will often go to great lengths to manipulate hoers to follow the 12 steps in a very strange way so that it completely dominates their life. they believe it is always the right thing to do but it often will cause problems for the more sensitive newcomer who may go and relapse.
http://recoveringfromrecovery.com

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Addiction Treatment Philosophy / Coercion Tactics that sound like AA & NA
« on: July 26, 2012, 02:39:21 PM »
This is what we have out there advocating against AA, these two freaking idiots. They really take themselves seriously, too.





Coercion Tactics that sound like AA & NA
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Coercion Tactics that sound like AA & NA

Postby JR Harris » Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:51 pm

    TACTIC 1

    Increase suggestibility and "soften up" the individual through specific hypnotic or other suggestibility-increasing techniques such as: Extended audio, visual, verbal, or tactile fixation drills, Excessive exact repetition of routine activities, Sleep restriction and/or Nutritional restriction.

    TACTIC 2

    Establish control over the person's social environment, time and sources of social support by a system of often-excessive rewards and punishments. Social isolation is promoted. Contact with family and friends is abridged, as is contact with persons who do not share group-approved attitudes. Economic and other dependence on the group is fostered.

    TACTIC 3

    Prohibit disconfirming information and non supporting opinions in group communication. Rules exist about permissible topics to discuss with outsiders. Communication is highly controlled. An "in-group" language is usually constructed.

    TACTIC 4

    Make the person re-evaluate the most central aspects of his or her experience of self and prior conduct in negative ways. Efforts are designed to destabilize and undermine the subject's basic consciousness, reality awareness, world view, emotional control and defense mechanisms. The subject is guided to reinterpret his or her life's history and adopt a new version of causality.

    TACTIC 5

    Create a sense of powerlessness by subjecting the person to intense and frequent actions and situations which undermine the person's confidence in himself and his judgment.

    TACTIC 6

    Create strong aversive emotional arousals in the subject by use of nonphysical punishments such as intense humiliation, loss of privilege, social isolation, social status changes, intense guilt, anxiety, manipulation and other techniques.

    TACTIC 7

    Intimidate the person with the force of group-sanctioned secular psychological threats. For example, it may be suggested or implied that failure to adopt the approved attitude, belief or consequent behavior will lead to severe punishment or dire consequences such as physical or mental illness, the reappearance of a prior physical illness, drug dependence, economic collapse, social failure, divorce, disintegration, failure to find a mate, etc.

    These tactics of psychological force are applied to such a severe degree that the individual's capacity to make informed or free choices becomes inhibited. The victims become unable to make the normal, wise or balanced decisions which they most likely or normally would have made, had they not been unknowingly manipulated by these coordinated technical processes. The cumulative effect of these processes can be an even more effective form of undue influence than pain, torture, drugs or the use of physical force and physical and legal threats.

    How does Coercive Psychological Persuasion Differ from Other Kinds of Influence? Coercive psychological systems are distinguished from benign social learning or peaceful persuasion by the specific conditions under which they are conducted. These conditions include the type and number of coercive psychological tactics used, the severity of environmental and interpersonal manipulation, and the amount of psychological force employed to suppress particular unwanted behaviors and to train desired behaviors.

    Coercive force is traditionally visualized in physical terms. In this form it is easily definable, clear-cut and unambiguous. Coercive psychological force unfortunately has not been so easy to see and define. The law has been ahead of the physical sciences in that it has allowed that coercion need not involve physical force. It has recognized that an individual can be threatened and coerced psychologically by what he or she perceives to be dangerous, not necessarily by that which is dangerous.

    Law has recognized that even the threatened action need not be physical. Threats of economic loss, social ostracism and ridicule, among other things, are all recognized by law, in varying contexts, as coercive psychological forces.

    Why are Coercive Psychological Systems Harmful? Coercive psychological systems violate our most fundamental concepts of basic human rights. They violate rights of individuals that are guaranteed by the First Amendment to the United States Constitution and affirmed by many declarations of principle worldwide.

    By confusing, intimidating and silencing their victims, those who profit from these systems evade exposure and prosecution for actions recognized as harmful and which are illegal in most countries such as: fraud, false imprisonment, undue influence, involuntary servitude, intentional infliction of emotional distress, outrageous conduct and other tortuous acts.

    http://www.factnet.org - Margaret Thaler Singer, Ph.D

    http://www.factnet.org - F.A.C.T.net



Source: http://www.psychologicalharassment.com/ ... actics.htm

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Re: Coercion Tactics that sound like AA & NA

Postby mfc66 » Thu Jul 26, 2012 7:22 pm
I feel that some of these things do go on, especially in the more cult like meetings that exist in several areas. many members seem to have forgotten why people join a 12 step group and have let the old dogma and steps take over. The steps are read out over an over again and taken seriously by so many and that makes the newcomer take notice of them, followed by the love bombing and stupid corny little phrases that are so often quoted.
http://recoveringfromrecovery.com

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Addiction Treatment Philosophy / RecoveringfromRecovery.com
« on: July 24, 2012, 09:17:37 PM »
http://recoveringfromrecovery.com/forum/index.php
Re: the never ending thread
Quote
Postby Avo » Thu Jul 05, 2012 6:45 am
This is a friendly and safe place. It's nice to get to know people without having to wonder who is lurking and ready to pounce on anything that is said. It must be sad and lonely for those that get their jollies doing that to others constantly.

It was pathetic to see how abusive they were to the innocent people that lost a friend. Regardless of how people die, judging without any knowledge other than a few words on the web and harassing the friends of a victim is wisted. That's overstepping, pun intended, and again, do we want what "they" have? I feel strongly that it would never happen at this site. I've "heard" many here, mainly in the chat-room, express their thanks and also have some fun and joke around at times as well.

-- We couldn't leave town for the holiday as planned so the family all watched a movie this evening. During break, when it cooled off, we then all went to watch the fire works (nice we have a huge open park near the house and we walked over). They had about 6 large sprinklers going and it was pretty isolated because everyone else was at the town display. We could see it from the park, which is hilly, so it was perfect! My son and I took Grandma's dog and ran through the sprinklers while the sky was getting lit up. It was fun! :D
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Re: the never ending thread

Postby yuk Yuk YUK! » Wed Jul 11, 2012 8:12 pm
Other possible definitions for the Acronym "AA":

1) Assholes Anonymous
2) Automatic Assholes
3) Antisocial Assholes
4) Aggressively Antisocials
5) Assholes Assigned
6) Angry Assholes
7) Arrogant Assholes
8) Amazing Assholes
9) Altruistic Assholes
10) ADD YOUR OWN!

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Re: the never ending thread
Quote
Postby Avo » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:43 pm

    yuk Yuk YUK! wrote:Other possible definitions for the Acronym "AA":

    1) Assholes Anonymous
    2) Automatic Assholes
    3) Antisocial Assholes
    4) Aggressively Antisocials
    5) Assholes Assigned
    6) Angry Assholes
    7) Arrogant Assholes
    8) Amazing Assholes
    9) Altruistic Assholes
    10) ADD YOUR OWN!




We could also switch them around. That works as well:

1) Anonymous Assholes
2) Assholes Automatically
3) Assigned Assholes

24 Hours As an Asshole
Ailing Assholes
Ale or Assholes



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Recovery Discussion
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Recovery Discussion

Postby Avo » Fri Jun 15, 2012 7:45 am
Monday: 4pm CST, 5pm EST, 10pm UK. Show up in the general chat area using the tab above. It's very user friendly.

Everyone is welcome. The topic will be about getting/staying clean and sober, or Maintenance regardless of the substance. Cross talk is allowed and suggested and the only rule will be No stepper talk. There won't be a format just chaos, lol. We aren't professionals and are just gathering to offer suggestions and give support.
Pro Empowerment!

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Re: Recovery Discussion

Postby Avo » Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:29 am
Reminder:

Recovery Discussion on MONDAY, June 18th.

2pm PST
4pm CST
5pm EST
10pm UK

We'll be using the General Chat above and everyone is welcome.

No Stepper talk please :shock:
Friendly discussion and support. Feel free to cross talk and give suggestions (no have to's or musts).
Pro Empowerment!

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Re: Recovery Discussion

Postby Avo » Thu Jul 12, 2012 6:58 pm
Since the first Recovery Discussion went well and a few people have asked, I thought we could give another session a try?

Same as before. No rules, crosstalk is highly recommended! :D

I'll keep you all update. I was thinking of Monday July 23rd.

More later...
Pro Empowerment!

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Re: Recovery Discussion

Postby Avo » Sat Jul 21, 2012 11:41 pm
Hi All,

I propose that we have another discussion about recovery.

Basically an interactive talk between anyone that wants to discuss sobriety. Advice, options, ideas are all welcome. Since mfc has designed the chat area to have several rooms available we will also have the option of splitting up into topics. There is also the option for a couple of people to chat more privately.

On Monday, July 23rd
10 pm London
5 pm Eastern
4 pm Central
2 pm PST

Everyone is welcome. This includes ideas or questions by all, regarldess as to how much clean time a person has. Please just keep in mind that no stepper billshit is welcome.
Pro Empowerment!

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Re: Recovery Discussion

Postby Avo » Mon Jul 23, 2012 9:38 pm
20 minutes until recovery discussion. Come to the chat room if your interested!. :D
Pro Empowerment!

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Deprogramming Discussion
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5 posts • Page 1 of 1
Deprogramming Discussion

Postby btnben » Mon Jul 23, 2012 12:05 pm
A couple of us were talking about having a chat room discussion about "Deprogramming". Are there stages to deprogramming? How long does it take? What are signs that it's still on-going? How do I feel now compared to when I first left? Any tips for the newly cult free? - that kind of thing.

Anyone interested, please add a post.

Proposed date and time : Thursday 26th July

2pm PCT
3pm Mountain
4pm Central
5pm EST
10pm UK

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Re: Deprogramming Discussion

Postby dorak nob » Mon Jul 23, 2012 5:30 pm
i'm in, thanks sounds like a great idea btnben ,it's funny my wife is always asking me to just get over AA and move on, not so easy especially the two meetings a day for a year. sort of brainwashed..

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Re: Deprogramming Discussion

Postby rainbow » Tue Jul 24, 2012 5:45 am
Sounds very interesting. Count me in. I enjoyed the discussion on skype today. I gotta get a mic this week. All I could do was type while everyone was chatting. But it was fun, nonetheless. Nieko & Ben, I'll need to use your names on my "meeting attendance card" this week. I used Avo's & Gunthar's last week. :lol:
It's time to OCCUPY AA.

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Re: Deprogramming Discussion

Postby Avo » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:10 am
I'd love to join in and it's a possibility that I will. I have an appointment during that time for my son and while I wait, I can participate. I pad or I pod though so my typing will be off kilter. Hopefully I'll have hifi (sp) where I am at.

Ben and I spoke of deprogramming recently and he was very sharp and kind :) in his explanation (too bad some never got to know his good side and believe that he is ConaBen :roll: ). Programming thoughts still linger after many months of leaving and sometimes it takes a conscious thought to catch and correct it.
Pro Empowerment!

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Re: Deprogramming Discussion

Postby mfc66 » Tue Jul 24, 2012 11:02 am
Thursday may be difficult for me as well but I do feel it is an important topic. I felt really let down by AA and the way that I had been told to behave as a result of the 12 steps. It really was a bad experience and it takes time to get over it. I think it is a subject that we should revisit often as people will be at different stages of recovering and will face different issues.
It would be good to get a lot of people online together although the time zone differences do make this hard, especially for me!
http://recoveringfromrecovery.com

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