Fornits

Fornits Home for Wayward Web Fora
An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck!
Fuck me! Fuck me!
Fuck you! Fuck you!
Fuck everyone! Fuck the church!
Fuck Jesus! Fuck Mary!
Fuck the Jews! Fuck the Bhuddists!
Fuck the Hindus! Fuck George Bush!
Fuck his ugly wife! Fuck Tipper Gore!
Fuck everyone! Fuck Gorbachev!
Fuck Noriega! Fuck all these assholes!
Fuck you! Fuck me! Fuck all of you!
Stigmata! Stigmata! Stigmata! Stigmata!
They told me nothing but lies!
Lies! Lies! Lies! Lies

-Al Jorgenson (Ministry - In case you didn't feel like showing up)

FYI,,, This is going to be a ramble, I guess you hit a nerve...

You bring up a really good point Cayo,

That so called "gift of awareness" is what I personally think, drove alot of people to suicide.

Like everyone else, I had that whole attitude smashed into my head the whole time I was there. Once I actually got back out into the real world, that piece of the program really haunted me. I was miserable. I was hell bent on self destruction and the worst part about it was that I just did not give a fuck whatsoever. I guess I had completely given up and was fufilling the whole Straight prophecy that was drilled into my head for so long.

I truly believe that one attitude is what causes so many people to go over the edge after Straight as well as in most any 12 step type program. It leaves no middle ground. You either are a shining star of recovery, or your some dead junkie on the side of the road. Fuck That!!!
There has to be a better way, right?

I truly believe that we were all (at least those that swallowed the program to get out, move along etc...)  setup for complete failure once we were on are own if we tried to "test the waters". After 2 years of having the fear jammed into my psyche that if I ever dared drink a beer or smoke a joint again, I would end up dead, insane or in jail (remember that shit!) I was sub conciously trying to fufill that. For a while after I got out, I was completely insane, quietly planning my suicide and pretty much spiraling my way to jail.

One very! very!! fine day, I FINALLY woke up (actually woke up one morning) and decided that I wanted to take door number 2 and that I have a choice (dare I say, Complete Control) in the desicions I make in my life. This is the one main thing that I simply can not accept about 12 step programs and the like. They taught us that we were impulsive monsters who could simply not control any aspect of our lives due to our disease. If that's not a defeatist attitude than I really don't know what is.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that once I realized that I am COMPLETELY responsible for every desicion that I make in my life, things started to make much more sense and I started to feel better.

If I decide to blow off work, drink and get high all day, there will be consequences, my life will suck, I'll be broke and probably in lockup etc.. simple as that.

The funny thing is that, and I really, really!!! hate to say it... I don't know if I ever would have had that realization if it wasn't for my experiences in the program. But fuck that, that's a whole other topic.

The way I look at it is that, it was just one more tool for "the program" to take complete control of our lives.

From what I've learned here and from my own poking around, this is how Straight, AA and don't forget the Korean POW camps, are able to keep all their prisoners without any walls or barricades whatsoever. If you are consumed with fear that without the group / captors / AA, you are surely going to die, than they really don't have to work as hard to keep you coming around, drinking shitty coffee and throwing money into a hat.

Again sorry for rambling but this has been on my mind for a while.

-Scott

PS
Shameless plug below for the latest music type thing I've been working on.

http://www.myspace.com/takingthewheel

(the band name actually relates to this topic but then again that's a whole other post)

I'm on guitar and bass, recorded in my basement. I wish I had the "I hate straight" song on there but it just hasn't come out yet...Trust me though, it's in there.

Still Good!

([email protected])

are you still webmistress?

I have an old phone number for you as well. I'd love to catch up on what's been happening.

Send me an email and we'll chat!

-Scott

Please pray for these people. I don't give a fuck about oil, I don't give a fuck about bullshit claims of weapons of mass destruction but I do give a fuck about the fact the there are Americans locked up in some towel head prison wondering if they are ever going to get home. I relate to that in some fucked up way as I'm sure everyone else here does too. I had a real mixed up dream last night that was pretty much a typical straight dream but with a current event's twist. I was one of a few in the dream to be called forward to basically be put to death in some Iraq prison and I tried to get everyone around me to RUN FOR THE DOOR. No one would go so I ran myself as fast as I possibly could and of course woke up in a sweat right as I hit the doors. I'm so scared for these people that are locked up over there it makes me sick. I haven't had a vocal opinion about this whole supposed conflict but this has really hit it home for me.

I want these people home!! They are so scared and I'm sure it's similar to what we all went through as children but much worse.

Everything is so fucked up right now with this whole war and shrub and papa shrub and all these power mongers bent on running the world and pissing off every single country on the earth that I'm honestly scared.

I didn't sign up for this and I can't believe it's actually happening.

I just had to get that out.


Thanks,

Scott
 :flame:

Hi Paul,

I was at 53 Evans Drive although a little after you. From May of 89 til June of 91. I actually live in Salem currently but originally from Swampscott. I actually remember someone asking me after I got out if I knew a Paul something or other from Salem. They said that you were in the program and I can't remember for the life of me who asked me but I remember the whole question now that you bring it up. That's so weird.

Email me at [email protected] if you feel like throwing names back and forth.

-Scott

Hey Jennifer,

Nice to meet you. I was at the Evans Drive clubhouse from May of 89 til June of 91. I think motivating had been banned litteraly a week before I got there. There were a few people on staff that you might recognize from your program.

Such as:
Andy and Jon Kennedy
Rob Parker

Vanessa something or other

I think all these people came from VA in 86 or so.

Let me know if you recognize any of them.

-Scott

Greg, Figured I'd repost what you wrote onto this board to make it easier for others to see. All I can say is WOW I wish I was there.

Hope you don't mind

-Scott

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It is 1:20 am and I just rolled in from the protest of SAFE in Orlando FLa.
First, a little background for those of you that don't know. SAFE is a direct descendent of straight- rehab program operating on OBT in Orlando. Safe uses substantially the same methods as the Seed and Straight did with a few tweaks.
Several years ago WAMI did a segment on SAFE that was highly critical of the methods. Around the same time we became aware of a kid named Weaver in the program that had broken ties with his mom whom was distraught, and another kid named Jeff whom had suffered severe abuse at the hands of SAFE. We got together and had our first ever straight survivors protest.
Tonight was the second protest. We arrived at the staging area around 4:00 pm and about 20 straight and seed survivors were there with a Safe survivor and our friend Jeff, whom has now grown into quite a young man.We then proceeded to SAFE and set up our protest on the edge of the parking lot. Loretta Parrish, the director of Safe, recently resigned and rumours were floating around that there were some "financial improprieties" involved, but we were unable to confirm. The person left in charge was a parent of former SAFE members named Brian Seeber. Brian is an attorney from Marylnad and a quiet type of fellow. There is a whole group of kids from Maryland there.
I told him that we intended to have a peacefull demonstration, that we wanted our side of the story told and he agreed and shook my hand. for Several hours we spoke to parents coming into open meeeting, spoke to local residents and merchants, and "bullhorned" the group so the kids could hear our support. Sammy did an excellent job of letting them hear that we thought certain things they were experiencing were abusive. We told parents that they were involved in a cult, that if there kids had a real drug problem they should bring them home and find a better way. Our reception was of course mixed by the parents.
During the course of the meeting, Weaver drove up and parked by us! I introduced myself and had a great talk with him. He is off the program, in touch with his mom (yeah) and seems to be critically thinking about what he went thru. Big event for those of us that have been pulling for his mom and him to reconcile. Jeff was having a good time confronting his tormentors and was feeling confident and looking and feeling good. (Double yeah).
Around 8:30, Jodi and I decided to ask if we could observe the open meeting. We were met at the front door and told to leave or the police would be called. I asked if we could observe open meeting, was told no, and we left. Several minutes later the police showed up and told us SAFE wanted us arrested for tresspassing, but refused. They also told us it was against the law to bullhorn without a permit. Jodi challenged that assertion and asked for the statute. After not being able to produce it, we were allowed to resume. The police left and told us to stay off their property and we agreed.

Around 10:00 they started driving around the back and taking the newcomers out in a way they wouldn't see us. Some of us decided to go around that way and let the kids know we supported them. While back behind the Safe on the adjacent property, Sammy and Carrie witnessed a kid come out of the safe, try to run and be physically thrown into a car, restrained. They started yelling for someone to call the police and several of us, including Doc and I, ran back there to see what was going on. The ladies stood in the way of the vehicle that had the restrained kid in it, and Jodi walked over to intervene. This is when all hell broke loose. The SAFE parents came out spewing program hatred, one of them got in Jodi's face and in a typical program confrontation, yelled in her face and told her he would piss on her leg if she didn't leave and unzipped his zipper. His veins were bulging and hate was spewing. I yelled at him to get out of her face. Things started happening fast. I got into a verbal exchange with Seeber, Parents started yelling and confronting the girls to move, someone thru a football block at Doc, I yelled at him and he dissapeared back into the SAFE crowd. Ex SAFE staff members had a camera rolling and agreed to show it to the police and said they saw the whole thing. we continued to block the car and called the police. They put the car in reverse and started leaving just as the police arrived. and I requested that they review the video and arrest the person whom assaulted Doc. Unfortunately, the video, shot at dark wasn't clear. Jodi was issued a tresspassing warning. We demanded a report be taken to investigate the abuse of the child we saw. SAFE claimed it was a kid clowning around and produced a kid claiming it was him. Sammy filled out a report because someone had pushed her in the breast and did something to her foot.Seeber and I exchanged words and I encouraged him to drop the modality and admonished him for the cult like behavior of his parents and followers. He was "talked to" right up and until the time he got in his car and left.
Sometime around 11:00, we broke up and went our seperate ways. Several of the women were understandably upset at witnessing the restraint and at our inability to get the police to do anything.
This was, to date, the most awesome, effective protest we have had yet. And it won't be the last, SAFE. Mr. Seeber, if you are reading this, and I am reasonably sure you will, take note. We are here, we know what goes on in there, and we intend on letting the world know. The story being told about us confusing the Straight and SAFE is erroneous. We know where all the steps come from, the yelling "im coming home", the motivating, the chairs, the open meeting, the confessions,mic talk, the bathroom priveledges, the earned affection of your family, the moral inventories.We KNOW what goes on in SAFE and we know where it came from. Many of us suffered under the same modality years and years ago. Change the modality of SAFE or be prepared to deal with us, the truth brokers.
Final thought: I truly believe that SAFE is on its last legs. The group size is small, the support fractured, and they are embroiled in a lawsuit that alleges, among other things, abuse and violations of the RICO act.
A drug is neither moral nor immoral - it's a chemical compound. The compound itself is not a menace to society until a human being treats it as if consumption bestowed a temporary license to act like an asshole.
--Frank Zappa

Here we go again!!

What about the Cowboy asskickings? Did that never happen? I've read about molestations that occured there too. I guess that's all creative lies right?? I've definately read many, many, many more negative stories than from your 4 or 5 disgruntled residents. It it's only 4 or 5 then why do you even care? Obviously the 2250 others will drown them out. Elan was different than Straight I'll give you that but on the flip side it was the same as far as it's so called method of treatment. Confrontational, humiliating and performed by people that had no more background or experience other than being subject to the same bullshit at some point in their life.

Also the fact that your even insinuating that we're just sitting around licking wounds and waiting for some sort of settlement shows how little you know about this group and the people in it. I personally will be happy just knowing that noone else will go through what I and everyone else did so many years ago.

It's pretty easy (and lame) for you to just sit there and say "well there's all these other bad things in the world, why don't you fight for that" Well why don't you?? Why are you wasting your time trying to convince us on how wonderful Elan was for you and everyone else. So I suggest you go save the world if that's your goal. We'll keep on course with our goals.

We'll see who's right in the end so I wouldn't get yourself all in a bunch about it. Another saying we had which you may have heard before is that "it all comes out in the wash"

-Scott