Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: GregFL on August 23, 2006, 12:45:50 PM
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Please watch this video and tell me how you think it relates to "motivating". I have said in the past that motivating is a stolen mind control concept, not invented in the Seed.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn9u8MgHQDs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn9u8MgHQDs)
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BTW, the music is just fucking awesome in that video!
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BTW, the music is just fucking awesome in that video!
I've heard that song somewhere before.. I don't like it that much, no offense. It sounds like REM (not to say I dislike REM or anything) but I don't know if they wrote it or not.. is that them?
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Not motivating necessarily, but the whole concept of religion has always smacked of Straight/Seed, mind control shit. Blind faith, emphasis on blind.
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Give up!
Fuck the government!
Kill the home owners!
Get disconnected!
Disconnected!
All the prime time tv shows
Say the middle class are homos!
Get disconnected
Disconnected!
See the Kool-aid in the compound!
Stir it up and pass it around!
Get disconnected
Disconnected!
Fuck religion
eat scum!
Beat a corpse!
Fuck a nun!
Get disconnected
Disconnected!
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That song is from the Donnie Darko soundtrack. It's a Tears for Fears cover. The artists' names are Michael Andrews and Gary Jules.
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Thanks!
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You're welcome. 8)
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Here's his myspace: http://www.myspace.com/garyjules (http://www.myspace.com/garyjules)
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That song is from the Donnie Darko soundtrack. It's a Tears for Fears cover. The artists' names are Michael Andrews and Gary Jules.
The song is called "Mad World". The Gary Jules version is waaaaaayyyyy better than the Tears for Queers version.
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Donnie Darko is a killer flick, if you haven't seen it yet, wtf is wrong with you?
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Well, thanks for the info on the song. What about all the Muslims, from little kids, to adults with blood all over them, doing what appears to be in affect the same thing as motivating?
How does this relate to chanting in cults? Segay to christianity and the arms raised and swaying?
I submit this is all the same function as motivating. It 'surrenders' you to not only the speaker/dogma, but also the environment surrounding the speaker/dogma.
Someone tell me I am right or wrong. I long for discussion on this topic.
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I can see that, motivating was supposed to show how much we wanted to get called on which would prove how badly we wanted to 'get straight'. Surrender. Chanting is similar I guess, but in the context here it also seems to be more of a mind-numbing effect, like the nursery songs we sang. Something to keep your mind occupied with fluff and dogma rather than allowing any critical thought to slip through.
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Yeah, I'm with yez on this...
..and sorry but that song kinda blows... (http://http://www.wordforge.net/images/smilies/anim_sleep.gif)
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For years I have wondered "where did motivating start" and "what was the genesis of motivating" and "who came up with the idea" and so forth.
The problem was this. The St. Pete Seed clearly motivated. People from the Cleveland and Ft Lauderdale seed ask "WTF are you talking about".
It finally struck me like a bolt of lightening. Art barker didn't have a fucking thing to do with it. We, us seedlings, appropriated it from religion and introduced it into the seed on our own. And from there it grew into the monster you see here
http://www.thestraights.com/video/motivate.rm (http://www.thestraights.com/video/motivate.rm)
In fact, I was there when it happened. But our motivating was a little less extreme. We snapped our fingers and shot our hands up and down rapidly. The Straight brand of motivating was just more of the same, and formalized. This explained why "motivating" occured in the St Petersburg Seed, but not in the Cleveland Seed. And how the Straight got it.
It was our gift to you. That is, us St Pete seedlings.
Now, watch the video again. pay particular attention to the arm actions of the participants and the looks on their faces. then please, make a comment.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn9u8MgHQDs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kn9u8MgHQDs)
[/url]
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How did 'what' all begin?
The genesis of this form of treatment seems to be the synanon. But this thread is talking about the roots of 'motivating'.
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Give up!
Fuck the government!
Kill the home owners!
Get disconnected!
Disconnected!
All the prime time tv shows
Say the middle class are homos!
Get disconnected
Disconnected!
See the Kool-aid in the compound!
Stir it up and pass it around!
Get disconnected
Disconnected!
Fuck religion
eat scum!
Beat a corpse!
Fuck a nun!
Get disconnected
Disconnected!
::stab:: :skull: ::both:: :rofl: :tup:
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I like the song. (the one with the video)
I don't think the two (motivating and what takes place in worship services) are related; or that they are meant to accomplish the same thing.
I gather from my reading, that any kind of rhythmic, repetitive movement, accompanied by chanting, or drumming ect, can and does induce a trance like state. Once a person is in this trance like state, they are more open to all kinds of influences.
Some faiths understand this and this is exactly what they are trying to accomplish - a trance where they can surrender to outside influences. Others are less open about what they are accomplishing with the rhythmic music and dancing or chanting.
It might also be of interest that some persons, when deep in prayer, sway or rock in a rhythmic way; often without being much aware of it; and with no audeble music or chanting taking place.
Motivating seems to be something different. There is nothing very rhythmic about it. No chanting is there? It does seem designed more of a way to obtain and maintain a kid's identity with the group. Group think, is also important to brain washing. You know - "they all think this, so it must be right. OK. best. . ." If you motivate with the group, you become part of that group. That's my best guess. And also possibly, it is meant to induce great fatigue. Brains are more easily washed when they are stressed and tired; and when their bodies are also stressed and tired.
As for the clapping and swaying in church; I don't think that is any different than people at a concert clapping and swaying or banging their head.
On a related subject - when reading cults in Our Midst, I read about Cult leaders who were able to put their followers in a trance state with their use of speech patters - a sing song or otherwise patterned speech - and that once the flock was thus subdued, they could impart all kinds of weird ideas and have them accepted. It was interesting.
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Well, thanks for the info on the song. What about all the Muslims, from little kids, to adults with blood all over them, doing what appears to be in affect the same thing as motivating?
How does this relate to chanting in cults? Segay to christianity and the arms raised and swaying?
I submit this is all the same function as motivating. It 'surrenders' you to not only the speaker/dogma, but also the environment surrounding the speaker/dogma.
Someone tell me I am right or wrong. I long for discussion on this topic.
Chanting is the absence of thought, correct? And motivation was "showing" our devotion and the desire to speak. I don't know... I go to a church where people have outer-body experiences when they are worshipping the Holy Spirit. I call it spiritual moshing. The difference is that we aren't expected to act that way, and our free will is respected. I can't say the same about other religions or practices, though. Motivation, to me, went along with the group mentality and inner competition between group members. It was also humiliating.
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Motivation, to me, went along with the group mentality and inner competition between group members. It was also humiliating.
Well said.
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Motivation, to me, went along with the group mentality and inner competition between group members. It was also humiliating.
Well said.
It was also expected. So, explain the difference between this and the muslims shooting their arms up and down in rythymic trance while, for example, shouting 'death to america'? what do you think would happen if one of these guys decided to have a seat, eat a bologna sandwich and not participate? This would clearly put him on the 'outside' and not within the group and identify him as not one of the 'truly devoted'. In order to gain that status, he must act in the ritualistic submission exercises.
Now, lets discuss large religious services that whip people up in a healing fest. what happens if you aren't swaying and just sitting there with your arms crossed instead of raised over your head? What if you get slapped in the forehead and instead of convulsing and flailing around, you say "Earnest, Please don't ever hit me again..I don't appreciate it?"
Seriously, it is the very participating in these ritualistic exercises of submission that not only identifies one as part of the group, but allows the person to be identified and participate in the goal of the group. ie; receive your healing. earn your martydom. Gain your awareness.
So I still contend, Motivating is a stolen concept...stolen from religion.
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I concur..... I think you're right on with this.
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Definitely a show of submission and servitude. The difference between the bad ones and the good ones is that one is a choice, and the other is not. In other words, one respects free will and one does not.
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Whether religion respects free will is certainly debatable, and I think it is easily demonstrated that most religions do not.
However, getting back to the topic, I first noticed this phenomena of religous 'motivating' many years ago, and I made comment in an early thread about seeing muslim kids, in mandatory muslim schools, motivating. I just never made the broader connection. The straight version of motivation, stolen from the seed, was an extreme example of religious submission exercise. It completely submits your body to the concept that you are part of a group, not an individual. While doing this, you mentally follow suit. In addition, it identifies you to the other group members as one of them.
To all of us "motivators", just remember that it was something we consciously one day decided to do. It was part of our self-submission and our acknowledgement that we were becoming part of a group.
Think about speaking in tonques. If anyone here has ever been to a church where they speak in tongues, and been thru the pressure of 'doing it', and then once done felt the immediate bond to the rest of the church and the submission to the church's concepts, then what I am about to say will make sense.
Speaking in tonques is another form of 'motivating'.
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It was our gift to you. That is, us St Pete seedlings.
Wow, thanks a LOT, Greg.......
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I think it was basically about demonstrating compliance. During the Lulu Corter trial, Miller Newton, when denying that he approved of motivating, said he "tried to get rid of it, but the kids really like doing it, and the peer staff says it is a way to tell when a kid has stopped trying to be "cool"". Now, I don't buy Virgil's denial one fucking bit, but it does indicate that 'motivation' was basically a demonstration of compliance, a form of collectively kissing the group's ass, a means of submitting to the "straight way". I don't thin it necessarily has it's roots in religion, maybe more form that TV show Welcome Back, Kotter where the character Arnold Horschack would always be trying to get called on in class, "OO! OO! Mr. Kotter, Mr. Kotter!". I think that's as valid as explanation as anything.
Again, thanks for the "present", Greg.........Love ya!
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Beg, beg and beg some more, you'll get to stand up and relate even more. that's all it was, just a bunch of bullshit throwin the dog a bone mindfucking horseshittin compliance mongerin psychophysical abuse. No roots or nothin else, just plain ol' BULLSHIT to make kids look like retards for the perpetrators pleasure. If it was religious, there would not have been so much shame involved and we would have done it in front of our parents and they would have joined in and we all would have been one big mass of motivators on open meeting night. FUCK MOTIVATING!!!!
:flame:
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To all of us "motivators", just remember that it was something we consciously one day decided to do. It was part of our self-submission and our acknowledgement that we were becoming part of a group.
One of the things that alway disturbed me about straight was that it was perpetual. It didn't even require any concious effort to get people to conform to these behaviors. Most people just conformed to the masses. Its the old theory about people following like sheep. Only in this case, there was noone really leading, just the group leading itself. this includes most of the staff as I saw it. They were just an extesion of the group mentallity. And even Sembler and all the rest of the people we love to hate, they were not in control of this thing, at least by the time I was in there. They just didn't care as long as the insurance checks kept rolling in. Motivating was just a way to feel "in" with the group. I was pretty much a "professional" misbehavior, & I have never felt as alone in all my life. The brief period I actually "worked the program" & made 2nd phase felt great, even though I didn't believe any of the shit that was coming out of my mouth.
It is very hard to be that alone, even if you know that the way the group is going is completely fucked up.
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1Whether religion respects free will is certainly debatable, and I think it is easily demonstrated that most religions do not.
2However, getting back to the topic, I first noticed this phenomena of religous 'motivating' many years ago, and I made comment in an early thread about seeing muslim kids, in mandatory muslim schools, motivating. I just never made the broader connection. The straight version of motivation, stolen from the seed, was an extreme example of religious submission exercise. It completely submits your body to the concept that you are part of a group, not an individual. While doing this, you mentally follow suit. In addition, it identifies you to the other group members as one of them.
To all of us "motivators", just remember that it was something we consciously one day decided to do. It was part of our self-submission and our acknowledgement that we were becoming part of a group.
3Think about speaking in tonques. If anyone here has ever been to a church where they speak in tongues, and been thru the pressure of 'doing it', and then once done felt the immediate bond to the rest of the church and the submission to the church's concepts, then what I am about to say will make sense.
Speaking in tonques is another form of 'motivating'.
1) Not every religion (I don't believe in religion, personally) respects free will, but if you do believe in God and desire to go to church, the church to go to is the one that has a freedom of choice based environment through out all aspects of the ministry, and does not "expect" anything but the presence of people to be accepted. Even the expectation of giving money is over the top to me.
2) I agree. I said something similar in one of my previous posts.
3) Speaking in tongues is highly misinterpreted by many groups across the board. I agree that it is on certain levels expected by members and then puts them at a "higher level" once achieved, but it's a farce. It again can be chalked up in my book as "spiritual moshing" and a form of worship, but it's still a misinterpretation biblically. The gift of tongues is not the ability to suddenly (on a Sunday morning at church) speak a native tongue. It's actually biblically explained as a communication tool between two people, not of the same native tongue, who do not have to actually speak to each other to understand one another. I can go into this further if anyone cares for me to elaborate a little more.
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Beg, beg and beg some more, you'll get to stand up and relate even more. that's all it was, just a bunch of bullshit throwin the dog a bone mindfucking horseshittin compliance mongerin psychophysical abuse. No roots or nothin else, just plain ol' BULLSHIT to make kids look like retards for the perpetrators pleasure. :
You are dismissing a phenomena that crosses over not just from our particular groupthink, but into all other groups where submission to the group is deemed essential for advancement or to gain status in the group. It crosses all boundaries from cults to religion to 'rehab'.
To dismiss it as just a device to make you look silly is looking right past the actual reasons for motivating. I suggest you watch the video again and give it some more thought.
BTW, not motivating could get you standing up as well, but not doing it was an immediate identifier of someone not in submission. So, motivation serves several purposes in mind control. Notably, 1) self-submission to the group and 2) an identifier to others in the group that you are in submission and part of the group identity.
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So, motivation serves several purposes in mind control. Notably, 1) self-submission to the group and 2) an identifier to others in the group that you are in submission and part of the group identity.
Absolutely.
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Speaking in tongues is ok I guess, but 69 is better! :rofl:
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Speaking in tongues is ok I guess, but 69 is better! :rofl:
:lol:
my example of 'tongues' probably is a bad example for purposes of this discussion because it gets the whole religion/non-religious rant going and further divides up religious people into several camps. I have very specific thoughts on this subject, but maybe we should let that one go and save it for a different topic.
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Okay, we find ourselves at religious camp, and in contrary to seed/straight, we are having fun. But mixed in with this fun something else is going on. Lets take a looksie....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7l6wgSsBqU (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7l6wgSsBqU)
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Speaking in tongues is ok I guess, but 69 is better! :rofl:
:lol:
my example of 'tongues' probably is a bad example for purposes of this discussion because it gets the whole religion/non-religious rant going and further divides up religious people into several camps. I have very specific thoughts on this subject, but maybe we should let that one go and save it for a different topic.
Not necessarily, in fact I think it's a damned good example! I just like 'cutting up in class' always have and always will. Anyway, I'll check out the movie, Uncle Greg. :smokin:
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Btw, could someone bump that thread that was posted recently that had the Jesus trailer.. you know the one where he decides to 'throw the first stone'? I want to watch that crazy fat psycho xtian bitch foaming at the mouth again.. from the other link on that thread.. thnx
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WHAT is with the static television sets???
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http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid= ... the+christ (http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-8938072770528600574&q=passion+of+the+christ)
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I think the assertion that there is a parallel between motivating and the gestures involved in many religions is a valid enough assertion. Sure programs are a bit more coercive; but there are some inherent similarities there that can't be discounted. Enough said. Yeah, what's up with those TVs? And could someone please bump that thread? The search function doesn't work like it used to. Thanks.
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Thanks, Anne... but I'm actually looking for the other link that was on that thread.. the psycho xtian lady...
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Oh yeah, the wife swap nutbag. she's on youtube all over the place...god woman, I think.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B9GlayKS_0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6B9GlayKS_0)
:rofl:
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:rofl: :rofl: :tup: :smokin: Thanks!
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:flame: "I feel like I'm a Spiritual Warrior" :rofl: :rofl:
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GregFL asks: Now, lets discuss large religious services that whip people up in a healing fest. what happens if you aren't swaying and just sitting there with your arms crossed instead of raised over your head? What if you get slapped in the forehead and instead of convulsing and flailing around, you say "Earnest, Please don't ever hit me again..I don't appreciate it?"
In my case nothing has ever happened. I do keep my seat and I have never felt like waving my arms about, so I don't. No one cares.
I do believe it might be a very different story in some groups though. I wouldn't want to be the dude eating the sandwich, while the rest of the brethren were "motivating" and chanting in the Islamic service.
Someone mentioned the fat Christian lady having a fit. Surely you realize she is mentally ill? Her behavior was abnormal, and her family was appalled and embarrassed. I was more offended by the self righteous and superior attitude displayed by the other church ladies at the luncheon. They had no excuse for being so hateful.
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"GET OUT OF MY HOUSE!!!!!" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: ::bwahaha:: ::bwahaha2:: ::kma:: :rofl: ::puke::
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I haven't been to church in a thousand years. I have no idea what goes on in there.
Of course the church lady is a whacko. She's just funny as hell to watch. I didn't see the whole episode, just came across her on Fark.
:flame: I AM A GOD WARRIOR!!!!!! :flame:
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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Over the top funny! I like the music at the end too...lol.
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You notice she changed her mind about taking the money from the show. ::bwahaha::
IT'S FROM THE DARK SIDE, GARGOYLES EVERYWHERE!!!! ::eek3::
:rofl: :rofl:
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Surely you realize she is mentally ill?
I don't think I'd argue that one too much.. ((LOL))
What other luncheon?
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IT'S FROM THE DARK SIDE, GARGOYLES EVERYWHERE!!!! ::eek3::
:rofl: :rofl:
:evil: :evil: :evil: :rofl: :rofl:
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The church lady is just a deluded fundie/attention whore.
Nothing she demonstrated actually has anything to do with this topic, other than introducing some levity into the conversation.
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That's true... How ~did we drift around to the church lady? There must have been some sort of segue...
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Oh yeah, I had asked someone to bump that jesus/xtian lady thread...
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whoa - HOW MANY years later are people wondering abut the origins of motivating at the program? Shit, hard to believe where some of your mindsets are as a grown adult.
you hold yourself in that era by conversing about it daily, weekly, whatever. I just found this site (accidentally) and am amazed at the craziness here. grow up and get a life already.
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(http://http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/7247/mooned7in.jpg)
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I see your point GregFL. I too have visited a church where people expect everyone to be affected or effected w/e! by the ~Holy spirit.~ and if you weren't outwardly acting like you were, you were shunned or thought of as ~not intouch w/ God... But I can certianly say that even though I sat there in that church just observing all the weird actions.... NO one EVER picked up my hands and physically made me move my arms... No ONE threw me to the floor and sat 5 filthy handed girls on me...
So maybe it started as a religious thing, but Straight demanded we do it.. and if not they physically abused you every single day for not motivating. It was forcing that made it abusive. I didn't see anyone forcing anyone else to do anything in the video. No one was guarding the doors.. How did the motivating become abusive? If it was working before (as you have shown in the video) Why make it abusive? Oh, maybe because not everyone will follow the massess. So this is where the group came in... to enforce perticipation.. WTF was that about :evil:
~WD
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Did anyone ever sit on you that had an ass like that? :rofl:
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No :( lol..
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Oh and she coulda cut the tag outta those panties.... How ghetto :P
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I see your point GregFL. I too have visited a church where people expect everyone to be affected or effected w/e! by the ~Holy spirit.~ and if you weren't outwardly acting like you were, you were shunned or thought of as ~not intouch w/ God... But I can certianly say that even though I sat there in that church just observing all the weird actions.... NO one EVER picked up my hands and physically made me move my arms... No ONE threw me to the floor and sat 5 filthy handed girls on me...
So maybe it started as a religious thing, but Straight demanded we do it.. and if not they physically abused you every single day for not motivating. It was forcing that made it abusive. I didn't see anyone forcing anyone else to do anything in the video.
~WD
This is simply explained. Forced indoctrination takes the voluntary aspect out of the action, but does not change the intent,purpose and inevitable result of it. As an example, you can force someone to get on your boat, or they can get on your boat voluntarily, but the end result is a boat ride.
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whoa - HOW MANY years later are people wondering abut the origins of motivating at the program? Shit, hard to believe where some of your mindsets are as a grown adult.
you hold yourself in that era by conversing about it daily, weekly, whatever. I just found this site (accidentally) and am amazed at the craziness here. grow up and get a life already.
What makes you think we care about your opinion? How uninteresting your opinion is so far. We could just as easily drop meaningless bombs on you too. How about this one. "You have closed your mind to the past. Refusing to critically look at your time in the straight holds you inevitably in that era. "
How you like them apples?
This is a discussion site. If you feel like discussing, feel free. You feel like random criticising people, then the ass has already been offered up.
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It's funny how all of those type of posts have common phrases in them isn't it? Like "grow up and get a life already." And they always seem to be from someone that "just found this site", don't they? :roll:
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So yea, I see that.. It's like what the leader is using to put people into a certian/desired state of mind. So do you think The Seed/Straight used motivation on purpose for the constant hypnotic state? Like, did they know ahead of time that it would work? I mean even I got some effect just by it going on around me. Bizarre-0 world
* the site won't send me a new PW, lol. Or it takes a long time to get sent to my email.
~WD
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So yea, I see that.. It's like what the leader is using to put people into a certian/desired state of mind. So do you think The Seed/Straight used motivation on purpose for the constant hypnotic state? Like, did they know ahead of time that it would work? I mean even I got some effect just by it going on around me. Bizarre-0 world
That's an interesting question, druggie! Since my tenure as an executive at Straight I've never really given it much thought.. but now that you mention it perhaps motivating was intended to hypnotize..... I DO know that Gary likes to watch it from his cage. (We wheel his cage into group sometimes just to remind recalcitrant druggies in the group of the fate that awaits them should they decide to misbehave) He seems to be in a sort of hypnotic state while watching the group motivate...it's almost uncanny. Perhaps he can relate to it (no pun intended) on a sort of primal level.