Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Topic started by: StellerJay on June 24, 2006, 04:37:00 PM
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Missoula Independent reports on SCL again:
http://missoulanews.com/News/News.asp?no=5790 (http://missoulanews.com/News/News.asp?no=5790)
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Taking a beating
by John S. Adams
Parents want answers from Spring Creek
A Florida couple wants to know who beat up their son at a private residential boarding school in Sanders County?and they?re willing to pay $5,000 to find out.
Scott and Deanne Hopp sent their 16-year-old son Jordan off to Spring Creek Lodge Academy near Thompson Falls last September in hopes the school could reverse his defiant behavior in a safe wilderness setting.
?We sent Jordan there out of concern for his safety,? says father Scott Hopp. ?Jordan wasn?t making good decisions and Spring Creek was touted as the right place for him.?
For nearly seven months Jordan hewed to the straight and narrow, working through Spring Creek?s program and advancing to the program?s penultimate Level Four. He?d earned ?junior staff? status, a leadership role that gave him limited oversight of lower-level Spring Creek students, and was on his way to graduating from the program. He seemed to be doing so well at Spring Creek that his parents sent their 15-year-old son Seth there to join his older brother in January.
But things started to go wrong last month when Jordan was dropped from Level Four to Level One after Spring Creek staffers caught him with a cigarette lighter and uncovered the teenager?s ?run plans.?
A few weeks later, faced with the prospect of starting the program over at Level One, Jordan says he tried to flee. He managed to escape Spring Creek?s 100-acre campus 13 miles northwest of Thompson Falls and successfully eluded searchers for 36 hours in the woods without shoes or a coat before hunger and cold got the best of him and he found the road and flagged down a car that returned him to Spring Creek.
After the escape attempt, Jordan?s parents made arrangements to bring their son home to Anna Maria Island, Fla.
The night before his scheduled return home, Jordan walked into the bathroom of his cabin at Spring Creek, where he says he was attacked by five of his ?family members??the designation given to student groupings at Spring Creek.
Jordan, now back in Florida, says he went into the restroom around 8 p.m. to use the toilet. When he was finished and opened the curtain to leave the toilet stall, five of his family members were standing there waiting for him.
?Everyone around me had their fists clenched except for [one of the boys], who held the shower pole,? says Jordan.
The boy holding the plastic PVC shower pole shut the door to the bathroom and then one of the boys punched Jordan in the face, he says.
?The rest [of the boys] charged me into the stall,? says Jordan. ?Before I turned in the corner of the stall to protect my face, I was hit in the face with the shower pole.?
Jordan says the boys then continued punching and kicking and hitting him for about two minutes before a Spring Creek staffer barged in and broke up the fight.
Jordan was taken to the staff offices, authorities were called and Jordan was taken to the Clark Fork Valley Hospital emergency room for treatment.
Scott Hopp says when Spring Creek shift supervisor Cliff Payne contacted him shortly after midnight on June 6, he was told that his son had been ?severely beaten.?
?When they first called me, they said he was bleeding, possibly had a broken nose, his faced was bruised up and he has scratches and bruises on his back,? Hopp says.
The initial dispatch narrative from the Sanders County Sheriff?s office?s case report for the incident indicates ?a shower rod?was used as a weapon.? The Clark Fork Valley hospital emergency room physician?s comments also note that a weapon was involved, stating that Jordan was ?hit with shower rod (PVC) repeatedly in the face and upper back??
This isn?t the first report of a shower rod being used as a weapon at Spring Creek. According to a September 2003 story in The New York Times, a teenage girl was beaten with a shower-curtain rod in June of that year by fellow Spring Creek students.
But Sanders County Sheriff Deputy Joseph Brown stated in his investigative report that he was ?not able to confirm the use of the curtain rod due to the fact that the shower-curtain rods were moved and placed in the showers for hygiene time.?
According to Brown?s report, ?all possible evidence in the crime scene had been destroyed.?
However, Brown determined he had enough information to cite two of the alleged attackers for simple assault.
Hopp, who immediately pulled both his sons from Spring Creek in the early-morning hours of June 6, says he?s frustrated by the lack of responsibility the school has so far taken for the attack on his son, and the lack of investigative interest exhibited by the Sanders County Sheriff?s Department. Scott says Deputy Brown told him he wouldn?t be able to follow up with the investigation for at least five days because Brown?s wife was expecting a baby.
?I couldn?t believe it. My son was just brutally beaten in the school with a shower-curtain rod and nobody was around to take care of an investigation,? Hopp says.
Hopp says Spring Creek officials ignored his repeated requests for information about the circumstances surrounding the attack (Spring Creek officials did not respond to requests for an interview for this story), and says he?s gotten similar results from law enforcement officials. According to Hopp, Sanders County Attorney Robert Zimmerman said his office would look into the incident, but at press time Hopp says it?s been more than a week and he still hasn?t heard from Zimmerman.
Zimmerman told the Independent that because the incident involves juvenile offenders, the case has been referred to Chief Juvenile Probation Officer Barbara Monaco in Polson.
?She reviews the report and makes an initial determination if the matter should be dealt with formally (filing a petition) or informally by her office,? Zimmerman stated in an e-mail to the Independent. ?If she believes it should be handled formally she requests the county attorney to file a petition alleging delinquency in District Court. Many times she will refer the matter to the jurisdiction from which the juvenile came for the authorities there to handle.?
As of press time Zimmerman had not received Monaco?s recommendation.
In the meantime, the Hopps hope the incentive of a $5,000 cash reward will help bring some clarity to their son?s case.
?Every hour that passes by we?re getting further away from the truth,? says Hopp.
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(http://http://missoulanews.com/photos/17/0625upfront1.jpg)
Photo courtesy of Scott Hopp
Sixteen-year-old Jordan Hopp (seated) was attacked by five of his fellow students at Spring Creek Lodge on June 5, the day before he was scheduled to return home to Florida. Now his parents, Deanne and Scott, are offering $5,000 for information that leads to the prosecution of his attackers.
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On 2006-06-24 13:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
Now his parents, Deanne and Scott, are offering $5,000 for information that leads to the prosecution of his attackers."
THAT'S a parent that cares. THAT is a parent that was duped. I know around here parents get lumped into one or two categories but these people seem to have bought the lies but are now stepping up to the plate for their son.
:nworthy:
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The kid knows who attacked him (his own "family" members at SCL) so why don't the cops go arrest them?
Also, two kids in a program? That's a double whammy. How did the parents afford this? Sure hope they were not "recruiting" other families. You know, doing the "parent volunteer" b.s. dance?
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Attorney general says it can't investigate academy
Posted on June 24
By the Associated Press
HELENA - The attorney general's office said it doesn't have the authority to investigate a complaint from a civil rights group over alleged abuses at a now-closed private residential treatment center for teen boys.
However, the Lake County Sheriff's Department is now asking the state Department of Criminal Investigation to look into the case.
The Swan Valley Youth Academy north of Condon closed earlier this year amid allegations that residents were subjected to physical and verbal abuse. The academy had agreed to correct numerous state licensing violations just weeks before shutting down.
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Montana Advocacy Program attorney Andree Larose had asked Attorney General Mike McGrath for state assistance in bringing criminal charges against former academy employees. She said local authorities had "expressed reluctance" in the matter.
In a letter to Larose on Thursday, the attorney general's office said it cannot initiate a criminal investigation at the request of private citizens or institutions. Only law enforcement authorities can get the office involved, wrote John Connor, chief criminal counsel for the office.
That appeared to happen with the request by Lake County law enforcement.
"They must recognize that this is potentially a very important, significant case," Larose told KPAX television in Missoula. "Asking for the state's assistance is commendable."
DCI had not seen the request Friday and could not comment.
Health department officials spent about a month investigating the military-style academy late last year. They found 19 licensing violations, and said teens were often degraded and yelled at by staff members, were forced to do excessive exercise and drink large amounts of water during intake, which caused some to vomit. The facility also failed to report a suicide attempt, health department officials said.
It was investigated after Larose, representing a former academy resident, alleged residents were subject to verbal and physical abuse.
Lake County Attorney Bob Long thinks it's good that DCI is being brought in for a more thorough investigation.
On the Net: Department of Justice: http://www.doj.mt.gov; (http://www.doj.mt.gov;) Montana Advocacy Program: http://www.mtadv.org (http://www.mtadv.org)
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Seems like they want witnesses, besides their own kid. Heck, THE KID knows exactly who beat the shit out of him.
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On 2006-06-24 21:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Seems like they want witnesses, besides their own kid. Heck, THE KID knows exactly who beat the shit out of him."
Hmmm . . . yes, it was no doubt someone helpless and vulnerable, right? Isn't that the fornits take on kids in programs?
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On 2006-06-24 20:27:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"Do they want info about the attackers, or info about the staff who most likely either encouraged it or ignored the event?Peace and abstinence from European interferences are our objects, and so will continue while the present order of things in America remain uninterrupted.
--Thomas Jefferson
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Nothing like your own perspective for reference, eh?
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On 2006-06-24 21:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Seems like they want witnesses, besides their own kid. Heck, THE KID knows exactly who beat the shit out of him."
Yup, something ain't making sense here. The kid can name names. These folks live in Florida? Why am I not surprised?
:roll:
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Kids don't beat the shit out of other kids for no reason. He got dropped to level one so this was a lower level family who did this. Maybe he squeeled on his family when reaching upper levels. I've seen alot of kids screw over all their friends for points. If someone did that to me and got dropped back into the family and I knew they were leaving...
Like the other posters said this kid knows who attacked him. Look at the defiant look on his face, hiding behind his parents... god thats priceless.
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Good point anon, and besides, those wussie parents should thank their lucky stars their 2 boys are back home, WHERE THEY FUCKING BELONG.
Not that any kid deserves to be beat up (or be pushed to the point of beating someone else up) but come on, when are these parents going to take some responsibility for putting their kids in this situation in the first place? This wasn't a walk in the park, ya know.
:flame:
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True but not all of them are heartless assholes. Many, many of them are but I gotta give credit where credit is due. I wish my parents had stood up for me when I told them what happened. It would have gone a long way towards deprogramming. Of course they bear the ultimate responsibility but it's nice to see someone take the mindfuckers to task.
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For nearly seven months Jordan hewed to the straight and narrow, working through Spring Creek?s program and advancing to the program?s penultimate Level Four. He?d earned ?junior staff? status, a leadership role that gave him limited oversight of lower-level Spring Creek students, and was on his way to graduating from the program.
Getting to upper levels in six months is fast. It is possible this kid didn't make any friends, and was trying his hardest to get through the program. This type of teachers-pet way of working the program can get you some enemies amongst fellow students. If this kid was a dick or anything while he was on Jr.Staff, that would explain a lot.
But things started to go wrong last month when Jordan was dropped from Level Four to Level One after Spring Creek staffers caught him with a cigarette lighter and uncovered the teenager?s ?run plans.?
A few weeks later, faced with the prospect of starting the program over at Level One, Jordan says he tried to flee. He managed to escape Spring Creek?s 100-acre campus 13 miles northwest of Thompson Falls and successfully eluded searchers for 36 hours in the woods without shoes or a coat before hunger and cold got the best of him and he found the road and flagged down a car that returned him to Spring Creek.
Interesting, I wonder why they dropped him. Run plans is a bullshit argument they use on anybody. Looking out the window is considered run plans if they deem so. That means nothing. The lighter is not a big deal either, so something is not being said here. There is another reason he was dropped. Perhaps he was setup, maybe the other kids just plain didn't like this guy. That would be my guess, cuz this story ain't adding up.
36 hours in the forest... thats pretty damn good. Somehow I doubt he asked that car for a ride back to SC.
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True enough anon, it would be nice if all the parents believed their kids (those that actually talk to them, unlike that WWASPS parent who left his kid in a program for what, 4 years or so? What is his excuse? The program made me do it?
What's amazing is this SCL kid escaped and was probably at less risk being out there in the woods than he was inside SCL. Fucked up as that may sound. At least he didn't get the shit beat out of him in the woods.
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To the Anon poster who seems to know how the WWASP programs operate:
Would adult staff make the decision to drop a Jr. Staff back down to level l ?
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Would adult staff make the decision to drop a Jr. Staff back down to level l?
Well, you have to understand the strange culture that is WWASPS. The upper level kids and staff could have viewed this kid as having it too easy, making it to upper levels so quickly. They might of felt he needed to be "challenged" (a big program word). This happens with a lot of kids on upper levels. I've seen them drop kids from the upper levels to level one for a week or two, then they get to go back to upper levels, only the kid had no idea it was temporary. It's a mindfuck strategy. Make the kid feel that at ANY time, all the hard work he put into the program, could be for nothing. It all comes down to what the others (staff and upper levels) in the program think of him, not what he actually does. It's kind of hard to explain. But, I have seen this done many times. Especially to the kids who make it to upper levels really fast without being dropped repeatedly while in lower levels.
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Another thing... that might have been why the kid ran. If he was on upper levels, on his way to graduating as the article says, he would not have tried to run. I suspect, the psychological shock of being dropped on a whim hit him so hard, he realized it was all for nothing, and he lost any sort of hope. That's the only reason a kid would run, because there is no where to go. Or he could of been afraid for his safety, maybe he knew the beating was coming in advance.
I bet they dropped him to level one as part of the program strategy (challenge him, make him stay longer, more parents money, etc) and he, seeing the program in a rational sense, realized no matter how much work he did, it would be fruitless.
This is all speculation, of course.
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Thanks for explanation.
Was also thinking: Perhaps this younger brother showed up and may have thought he might expect "privileges" since his older brother was Jr. Staff. So, maybe he was dropped from Jr. Staff to make a BIG IMPRESSION on both these brothers. To remind them EXACTLY who was in control. Something like that.
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On 2006-06-24 22:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"To the Anon poster who seems to know how the WWASP programs operate:
Would adult staff make the decision to drop a Jr. Staff back down to level l ?"
This is also a tactic used to keep kids in the program longer and milk their folks for more money. I've seen kids hit level 6 and be dropped for a totally bogus reason. Some Family Reps are notorious for this, because they get a bonus depending upon their numbers. Cliff Payne is the biggest ass about doing this. He gets off on the power he has to do this at his whim.
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Irish Mom: did you have experience with siblings being enrooled at the same facility? I believe this boy's younger brother showing up had a lot to do with him being dropped to Level 1 and with him being beat up.
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Has the ante been upped yet?
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5k is about what a parent gets for 2 months referrals to WWASPS in tuition credits.
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The kid looks like a pussy anyway. Why is he crying about a little scuffle?
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On 2006-06-24 22:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
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Would adult staff make the decision to drop a Jr. Staff back down to level l?
Well, you have to understand the strange culture that is WWASPS. The upper level kids and staff could have viewed this kid as having it too easy, making it to upper levels so quickly. They might of felt he needed to be "challenged" (a big program word). This happens with a lot of kids on upper levels. I've seen them drop kids from the upper levels to level one for a week or two, then they get to go back to upper levels, only the kid had no idea it was temporary. It's a mindfuck strategy. Make the kid feel that at ANY time, all the hard work he put into the program, could be for nothing. It all comes down to what the others (staff and upper levels) in the program think of him, not what he actually does. It's kind of hard to explain. But, I have seen this done many times. Especially to the kids who make it to upper levels really fast without being dropped repeatedly while in lower levels.
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This is used at some of the more strict facilities which on a scale of 1-10 I think we all know where WWASPS lies. It is a complete mindfuck. In their sick minds they think they are doing good by seeing how a kid handles that kind of devestation.
I would understand if it wasn't as strict. But, having all rights stripped, and then getting to the highest level where it's bearable...........only to have yourself right back in hell...........it's enough to make someone want to kill themselves, which they have...........or try to run.................which they have..........and I have done on several occasions.
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On 2006-06-26 06:19:00, Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
"I heard and did it myself where kids were tested via various schemes at Three Springs,but never were they deprived of a level. I have to agree with CCM whole heartedly in her assesment that dropping a kid a level can lead to some pretty extreme reactions.
Pretty damn sick. Always try to do things in chronological order; it's less confusing that way.
--Unknown
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And the assumption, as usual, is that it was done TO the kid, not BY the kid. How pathetic that so many people consider these kids helpless. That, by the way, is what lands them in trouble at home.
Reality: No one "drops" anyone; kids make poor choices, and lose points for it. It's expected, because even when kids have learned enough to succeed and get on upper levels, they'll test the waters. That's a good thing. The program's upper levels provide a safe place to make some mistakes, and then see what you learn from it. It's just not all that sinister.
Usually, an upper level student who drops will spend only a short time on lower levels because they already understand the tenets of accountability. Once they recognize what choices they made and what they might have done differently, staff, therapists, and teachers support having them returned to upper levels.
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You must have missed this post by a former SCL employee. Fact is, they drop kids for financial and arbitrary reasons, nice try, though. :wave:
On 2006-06-24 23:01:00, Irish Mom wrote:
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On 2006-06-24 22:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"To the Anon poster who seems to know how the WWASP programs operate:
Would adult staff make the decision to drop a Jr. Staff back down to level l ?"
This is also a tactic used to keep kids in the program longer and milk their folks for more money. I've seen kids hit level 6 and be dropped for a totally bogus reason. Some Family Reps are notorious for this, because they get a bonus depending upon their numbers. Cliff Payne is the biggest ass about doing this. He gets off on the power he has to do this at his whim."
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On 2006-06-26 08:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
And the assumption, as usual, is that it was done TO the kid, not BY the kid. How pathetic that so many people consider these kids helpless. That, by the way, is what lands them in trouble at home.
::troll::
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On 2006-06-26 09:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You must have missed this post by a former SCL employee. Fact is, they drop kids for financial and arbitrary reasons, nice try, though. :wave:
On 2006-06-24 23:01:00, Irish Mom wrote:
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On 2006-06-24 22:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"To the Anon poster who seems to know how the WWASP programs operate:
Would adult staff make the decision to drop a Jr. Staff back down to level l ?"
This is also a tactic used to keep kids in the program longer and milk their folks for more money. I've seen kids hit level 6 and be dropped for a totally bogus reason. Some Family Reps are notorious for this, because they get a bonus depending upon their numbers. Cliff Payne is the biggest ass about doing this. He gets off on the power he has to do this at his whim."
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Maybe she's a former employee because she doesn't have a clue. Was she fired? Why did she work there for a year if she thought it was so awful? Cliff P. wasn't even a family rep.
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Several upper level kids have confirmed now that they witnessed several staff using crstal methempetamine.
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On 2006-06-26 14:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2006-06-26 09:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You must have missed this post by a former SCL employee. Fact is, they drop kids for financial and arbitrary reasons, nice try, though. :wave:
On 2006-06-24 23:01:00, Irish Mom wrote:
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On 2006-06-24 22:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"To the Anon poster who seems to know how the WWASP programs operate:
Would adult staff make the decision to drop a Jr. Staff back down to level l ?"
This is also a tactic used to keep kids in the program longer and milk their folks for more money. I've seen kids hit level 6 and be dropped for a totally bogus reason. Some Family Reps are notorious for this, because they get a bonus depending upon their numbers. Cliff Payne is the biggest ass about doing this. He gets off on the power he has to do this at his whim."
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Maybe she's a former employee because she doesn't have a clue. Was she fired? Why did she work there for a year if she thought it was so awful? Cliff P. wasn't even a family rep. "
Just because I'm a former employee doesn't mean I was fired and how do you know how long I was or wasn't there unless this is someone who still works there just being an asshole troll? I've also explained before why I stayed as long as I did and I don't feel I need to justify it to someone that posts anonymously. Why don't you come out and say who you are?
Anyway, I never said Cliff was a Family Rep. I said he was the biggest ass for dropping kids for no reason. You, as the SCL employee that I think you are, should know this. The kids are afraid of crossing the "little red faced prick" as he is known to them, for fear of getting dropped.
Crawl back under your bridge ya nasty troll!
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On 2006-06-26 16:31:00, Irish Mom wrote:
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On 2006-06-26 14:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2006-06-26 09:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You must have missed this post by a former SCL employee. Fact is, they drop kids for financial and arbitrary reasons, nice try, though. :wave:
On 2006-06-24 23:01:00, Irish Mom wrote:
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On 2006-06-24 22:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"To the Anon poster who seems to know how the WWASP programs operate:
Would adult staff make the decision to drop a Jr. Staff back down to level l ?"
This is also a tactic used to keep kids in the program longer and milk their folks for more money. I've seen kids hit level 6 and be dropped for a totally bogus reason. Some Family Reps are notorious for this, because they get a bonus depending upon their numbers. Cliff Payne is the biggest ass about doing this. He gets off on the power he has to do this at his whim."
"
Maybe she's a former employee because she doesn't have a clue. Was she fired? Why did she work there for a year if she thought it was so awful? Cliff P. wasn't even a family rep. "
Just because I'm a former employee doesn't mean I was fired and how do you know how long I was or wasn't there unless this is someone who still works there just being an asshole troll? I've also explained before why I stayed as long as I did and I don't feel I need to justify it to someone that posts anonymously. Why don't you come out and say who you are?
Anyway, I never said Cliff was a Family Rep. I said he was the biggest ass for dropping kids for no reason. You, as the SCL employee that I think you are, should know this. The kids are afraid of crossing the "little red faced prick" as he is known to them, for fear of getting dropped.
Crawl back under your bridge ya nasty troll!"
Were you this vindictive to the kids? Tsk, tsk.
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Gotta get in the last word, eh troll? I'm guessing you are some graduate with nothing better to do. Why would you, it's not like you have any friends! :lol:
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Yep, you explained you more-or-less stayed for the money, and that you don't come forward to protect the kids still beging abused there, because--why was it? You're protecting your own kid. Think that was it, huh concerned MOM?
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And NO, I am not some GRAUDATE from there.
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On 2006-06-26 20:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yep, you explained you more-or-less stayed for the money, and that you don't come forward to protect the kids still beging abused there, because--why was it? You're protecting your own kid. Think that was it, huh concerned MOM?"
Oh yeah...I stayed for the money. What a laugh! Since you work there you should know that the money sucks! If you work group living you only make around $7.50 an hour, and for the work that's expected of you that's nothing. Besides, I never said I stayed for the money.
What do you mean I'm "protecting my own kid"? Isn't that what parents are supposed to do? Oh wait that's only when you DON'T put your kids in a place like Spring Creek. By the way, what have you done lately to protect the kids still being abused there? You have no idea what I'm doing about it so shut the fuck up.
Geez, for a person that isn't a program grad and isn't an SCL employee you sure seem to know a lot about how the program runs and who it's staff are...hmmm...I still think you're a fucking troll or someone still working there...same thing.
Why is it that the ones that talk so much shit on here and are so critical of others always post anonymously. Makes ya wonder. :???:
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On 2006-06-26 20:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2006-06-26 16:31:00, Irish Mom wrote:
"
On 2006-06-26 14:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2006-06-26 09:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You must have missed this post by a former SCL employee. Fact is, they drop kids for financial and arbitrary reasons, nice try, though. :wave:
On 2006-06-24 23:01:00, Irish Mom wrote:
"
On 2006-06-24 22:38:00, Anonymous wrote:
"To the Anon poster who seems to know how the WWASP programs operate:
Would adult staff make the decision to drop a Jr. Staff back down to level l ?"
This is also a tactic used to keep kids in the program longer and milk their folks for more money. I've seen kids hit level 6 and be dropped for a totally bogus reason. Some Family Reps are notorious for this, because they get a bonus depending upon their numbers. Cliff Payne is the biggest ass about doing this. He gets off on the power he has to do this at his whim."
"
Maybe she's a former employee because she doesn't have a clue. Was she fired? Why did she work there for a year if she thought it was so awful? Cliff P. wasn't even a family rep. "
Just because I'm a former employee doesn't mean I was fired and how do you know how long I was or wasn't there unless this is someone who still works there just being an asshole troll? I've also explained before why I stayed as long as I did and I don't feel I need to justify it to someone that posts anonymously. Why don't you come out and say who you are?
Anyway, I never said Cliff was a Family Rep. I said he was the biggest ass for dropping kids for no reason. You, as the SCL employee that I think you are, should know this. The kids are afraid of crossing the "little red faced prick" as he is known to them, for fear of getting dropped.
Crawl back under your bridge ya nasty troll!"
Were you this vindictive to the kids? Tsk, tsk."
Want to explain what was "vindictive" about anything I said? What's the matter, can't handle a little truth about your employer?
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On 2006-06-26 20:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Yep, you explained you more-or-less stayed for the money, and that you don't come forward to protect the kids still beging abused there, because--why was it? You're protecting your own kid. Think that was it, huh concerned MOM?"
Nah, IM already admitted she tried to get the kids to tell her they were abused, but they wouldn't. Not to be too simplistic, but maybe it's because they aren't abused.
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The simple fact that this kid was beaten by other children at SCL shows that some (maybe all?) of the kids are most likely being abused. Staff should have been on top of it--I have worked with adults and youth who are extremely mentally ill, and we NEVER had an incident remotely like this, even when we were short staffed. If staff do their job, do it right and keep these kids safe, the chance of someone being beaten is preventable. TROLL/ANON: even you cant deny that staff were not doing their job. Responsiblity is to be taken even if they were 'not in the room' when this happened (which I doubt). And by the way, we are talking about the boy and his family, not what kind of a person IM is--she's proven herself and her intentions here plenty of times so give it up.
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On 2006-06-27 08:26:00, StellerJay wrote:
"The simple fact that this kid was beaten by other children at SCL shows that some (maybe all?) of the kids are most likely being abused. Staff should have been on top of it--I have worked with adults and youth who are extremely mentally ill, and we NEVER had an incident remotely like this, even when we were short staffed. If staff do their job, do it right and keep these kids safe, the chance of someone being beaten is preventable. TROLL/ANON: even you cant deny that staff were not doing their job. Responsiblity is to be taken even if they were 'not in the room' when this happened (which I doubt). And by the way, we are talking about the boy and his family, not what kind of a person IM is--she's proven herself and her intentions here plenty of times so give it up."
An incident between kids proves they're all being abused by adults? Now that's an extraordinary line of reasoning.
Staff were not doing their job? An even more impressive conclusion, considering the lack of available information.
There is no way to know what kind of person IM is, or if anything she (?) claims is true; a user name does not cast off anonymity or bestow authority.
Your own experience with "extremely mentally ill" people may not even be relevant, because it isn't established that these kids are mentally ill.
I guess the big question is, with folks like you who can garner so much wisdom from so few facts, why do we bother with archaic institutions like the justice system?
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I really wish we could reach these kids with information before they get sent off, so we could equip them with the mental and emotional tools to resist the damage.
For example, many kids fall into the trap of cooperating with the program because they believe it will get them sent home earlier, particularly if they have a lot of time until they age out of program control.
The truth is that they're likely to be in the program until their parents run out of insurance or money. At that time, they're likely to go home no matter what their behavior in the program was like.
So with that being the case, the best way of surviving the program would be to play the game *except* the aspects of it that would do actual harm. To play the game except for abusing or reporting other kids, to play the game except for the seminars.
Yes, I know this isn't playing the game at all and will get the kid dropped or pressured----the point being that is going to happen anyway until the parents run out of money.
So playing the game, specifically including making up personal prior traumas, but not doing harm, gets the kid out of the most hassle for the least long term harm to the kid.
The best personal prior traumas to make up would be traumas that are verifiably (later) impossibly untrue. For example, Grandpa Joe dies when you're five and you allege he raped you when you were ten. The program will accept the made up trauma uncritically because it's what they want to hear. Yet, if they ever try to use it against the kid at a later date, the kid can prove it never happened and was made up to get the program off their back.
All intimate personal revelations to a therapist should be copious, made up, and untrue in verifiable ways---as verifiable as possible.
If we could only get the kids to plan ahead. I know that's against the nature of kids, but many of these kids are okay and just have freaky parents.
*sigh*
Julie
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Actually the best way out is through.
No, not through the program's levels. That's a joke.
The best way to get out is to perform some act of unimaginable violence that they can't possibly keep you in after that. Biting someone as hard as you possibly can will probably work, particularly if it's done out of the clear blue sky. Thumbs in eyeballs also will likely work. Sharp objects are better. Don't fuck around. Drive them blind.
You might get sent to jail, but jail's better.
Edit: This is just one of those posts where I know some cockbite is going to think it's legally actionable, so I'll just say this: If you were getting raped by your dad or beaten by your mom, and were unable to go to the authorities, I'd give similar advice.
It is morally and ethically right for you to do anything you can to get out of an abusive situation.
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On 2006-06-27 16:33:00, Milk Gargling Death Penalty wrote:
"Actually the best way out is through.
No, not through the program's levels. That's a joke.
The best way to get out is to perform some act of unimaginable violence that they can't possibly keep you in after that. Biting someone as hard as you possibly can will probably work, particularly if it's done out of the clear blue sky. Thumbs in eyeballs also will likely work. Sharp objects are better. Don't fuck around. Drive them blind.
You might get sent to jail, but jail's better."
Actually this isn't a very good idea. Most the kids that hit "zero tolerance" don't get sent home, but get sent to an even worse place...Tranquility Bay. Almost every kid that I saw get booted out of SCL went there or to another program. Very few went home. I guess if your idea of a better place is the hell hole called TB, then go for it. We actually had one kid that did try the biting thing. He was just a little bitty guy, but he could bite like hell! He was sent to Jamaica and as far as I know is still there. The staff he bit several times is still working at SCL.
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Then his parents need to be tracked down and informed of their son's true condition. Now. This isn't going to end well.
Mexico did a raid. Why won't the Jamaican authorities?
This isn't a game or a joke. This shit has got to stop.
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Why the hell didn't I do this earlier?
*fires off a carefully-worded, highly respectful email to the Jamaican cabinet*[ This Message was edited by: Milk Gargling Death Penalty on 2006-06-27 17:14 ]
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Do they take PayPal?
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Niffty idea guy.The reality is the kids get sent to TB. The staff scare the shit of out parents with how naughty their kids are."TB will help them get their lives together." Blah blah blah. Off to Tranquility Bay they go. I've read it many many times on the BBS .I experienced it first hand.
Not good.
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Any word if the reward has been given
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http://www.missoulanews.com/News/News.asp?no=5802 (http://www.missoulanews.com/News/News.asp?no=5802)
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"oh we cant prosecute a program for breaking the laws of the USA, they donate to the GOP!"
Man, the first instinct I had was to deck the dad and slap the mom for putting him in a WWASPS program in the first place.
More money than common sense.... at least they came to their senses in a trite manner when he got out... but dont seem to be holding SCL accountable.
:roll:
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More money than common sense....
Great way to describe program parents. Couldn't have said it any better.
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I know a few great lawyers in Montana that would be more then willing to take these parent's case!!!!! Reply with your email addy and I'll give you references.