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Messages - Samara

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Noneya: Enash can't kill what is long dead. Spiritually it died years ago. And now its just a bad reminder. Several people had a hand in it.

Agreed this site is dunzo, unfortunately, due to quite a few factors... but why the G-Hate? If this board is "the biggest piece of worthless shit ever" why post on it?  Isn't it a bit of a waste of time?

Open Free for All / Re: Who is this douche "Nunez"?
« on: February 05, 2012, 05:39:07 PM »
A person with really, really bad porn.

Open Free for All / Re: Let me introduce myself
« on: February 05, 2012, 05:34:37 PM »
Is there no one sane left on this site?

Everyone has fallen two barrels off the falls and there is no way to tell good guys from bad guys.

Why would any of you threaten eachother?

Open Free for All / Re: Wayne Kernochan's Goodbye Admission!!!
« on: February 04, 2012, 11:43:29 AM »
So this is what Fornits has devolved to?  

I don't think R. is Danny B. Different syntax. Linguistic variations.

If anyone were to truly protest the ethics and abuses of programs, they would never make their points by harassing others and getting into an overtly personalized pissing match of epic, defamatory, and threatening proportions. All it does is make it difficult for all survivors to be received credibly. I don't know Danny's story. I don't know Waynes's story or the stories of people who jumped into the mud.  The value of anything worthwhile to be learned has been lost in a grotesque sludge of sockpuppets, slander, egoism, threats, and ugly porn.  I'd never ever ever thought I'd say this, but this whole debacle makes me miss Whooter, and I believe him to be a sociopath, so that's saying something.

It's been going down the drain since 05 or 06 when new mods and admins abused their power and personalized their conflicts, seeping toxic distrust all over the forum, then it turned into Whooterville, and now it's just one massive swamp of verbal diarrhea.  

It is a shame. This used to be a place of sincerity and community. Even if it was sincerely sarcastic, or raw and punishing, there was community. There was even trust and support for those who needed it. Long gone. (Not sure it ever existed in the Elan forum though.)

I am sad and maybe too attached to what was.. and I wonder where can people go now to untangle a terrible period of their lives they have yet to process? Not here.

Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: December 30, 2011, 05:17:08 PM »
TC - I am happy you are happier and presumably, more ethical. But it all sounds batshit crazy to me.  No different than mythology.

And, really, I have a greater appreciation when people "do the right thing" without the hope or promise of reward. Intrinsic value.

Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: December 30, 2011, 01:05:12 PM »
It all sounds like crazy talk to me. Murder = Salvation? I've read the Bible - albeit a long time ago. Went to churches and synagogues. I tried to read it again a few years ago, but frankly, hated how women were represented and the treatment of the Bible as Divine when it was written by men. Not God. I finally realized I was trying to find something that didn't exist for me in the Bible.   Also, when I look around me, at the Fundie place I work, I don't see a lot of Christians acting Christ-like. It would be cool if they did - I don't see charity as simply throwing money at organizations or volunteering at a soup kitchen a few times a year. Though those are all good, its pretty easy to do if you have a little extra time or a little extra money.  What I see in short supply is a lack of generosity in spirit.  Also how hard is it to live mostly ethically? (I prefer ethics to morality; morality is a bit more arbitrary.)

Since I stopped trying to fit a square peg in a round hole, I've been at peace. I am fine with uncertainty of afterlife. If there is a grand overbearing figure, it seems he'd understand agnosticism or atheism....  The miracle to me isn't the parting of the red sea but every oak tree or flower or ladybug or even my children growing or the fact I can enjoy five senses. Neither religion nor science will ever explain the miracle of that - so I just accept and appreciate it.  Godliness to me is just goodliness... a choice of evolving our consciousness. Becoming less self absorbed and more generous and kind.

I also cannot understand an omnipotent, separate being that would not intercede in the lives of starved, abused, and tortured children.  So the idea of a the Great Father in the Sky is a bit difficult to intake.

Elan School / Re: Communication
« on: December 29, 2011, 01:07:37 PM »
No, Fornits went ineffective before DB. He who shall not be named had a role, but also inviting admins and mods (2005 or 6) to a few who let their personal beefs interfere with the site and messed around with people's IPs, avatars, messages, etc. brought in a whole element of distrust and defensiveness. Many Fornits vets now felt their safe haven to vent compromised. It wasn't the same after that.  Some people here have nothing to lose and don't care; others needed a safe anonymous place to vent, discuss, or protest.

Elan School / Re: Communication
« on: December 29, 2011, 12:48:04 PM »
I guess what I don't understand is why parody him?  Why not just disengage? I don't think he is even here. It's all parodies.  I just wonder why everyone has to sink to the lower levels. I guess its my idealism though. I just wish this site could be above board in illustrating treatment abuse. All the back and forth, lies and slander, petty parodies and threats debases what could be an illuminating objective: to render the truth about abusive programs.

Elan School / Re: Communication
« on: December 29, 2011, 12:20:24 PM »
uuuhhhhh.... if he "won" it was by default. The parodies and constant engagement were the derailers. It has gotten so out of hand, everyone looks like an asshole.

Elan School / Re: Communication
« on: December 29, 2011, 12:00:54 PM »
None-ya, in spite of our differences on the subject of cats, I have to agree with you on the obsession with DB. There is no value added but to underscore the depths this damn forum has sunk.

Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: December 29, 2011, 11:50:45 AM »
Yeah, that's a real road block for me in terms of buying the Christian perspective of "spirituality." All credit goes to God; all blame goes to people. Of course in secular programs it is all credit goes to Program.  The Program is God.

It is hard to buy God as an intervening God anyway, at the very least.  You know that saying by Epicurus, something like, "If God is willing to prevent evil, but unable, then he is not omnipotent. If he is able to prevent evil, but not willing, than he is malevolent. If he is unable and unwilling then is he God?

The free will argument is BS. If I was a bystander to evil, than I bear culpability.

Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: December 16, 2011, 04:27:52 PM »
What I'm saying is that your friend appears intolerant of people who dissent from his POV that TC is the Savior. Also, your post still shows a complete minimalization of TC dissenters as rule whiners. It is NOT uncommon for Programmees to drink the Kool Aid and think without this program I'd be dead. Often, these same people feel differently once the Kool Aid wears off.  I'm just not as dismissive of the opinions of people who found TC lacking in ethical boundaries. That is all. I'm not going to marginalize them as rule whiners. If God put it there to save your ass, more power to you. Sounds ridiculous to me, but whatever.

Teen Challenge / Re: I personally escaped this Cult
« on: December 15, 2011, 12:48:49 PM »
I didn't attend TC, but the quote from your friend asserting that people who reject the program are essentially losers is irrational, illogical, and moronic. What he is essentially positing is that the ONLY valid perspective is a positive one. It proves the point that dissent or critical thinking is undervalued.

I did not go to a program for drug use or delinquency. Many of my peers also did not.  And yet, there we were. Whether someone split, left, or graduated is inconsequential to the fact that the program practiced systemic, trenchant, and pervasive verbal and psychological abuse. If a kid were a drug addict, bipolar, or simply rebellious would not convince me that their stay at the program was therapeutic. In fact, the opposite. I don't feel this way because of rules or work details. That sh*t is petty and frankly, inconsequential to the fact that the program practiced systemic, trenchant, and pervasive verbal and psychological abuse.  

It is very tiresome to continue to explain to Program People that dissenters are not rule whiners. Do you think we would be talking about this over decades later if we simply hated a few rules? No. In fact, I could give a rip  what happened to me a long ass time ago.  I don't want today's kids to be placed in programs that practice, yes, again, systemic, trenchant, and pervasive verbal and psychological abuse.

I don't know much about Teen Challenge pro or con. However, it is true --based on my experience, research, and professional and academic expertise-- that I lean toward skepticism. Nice brochures and "Jesus Saves" slogans are not effective arbiters of therapeutic ethics.

Thought Reform / Re: Does thought reform create arrogance?
« on: December 12, 2011, 06:33:34 PM »
Thank you, O Holy One. I couldn't have done it without your humble and beneficent assistance.

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