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Messages - Matt C. Hoffman

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Elan School / Re: RIP Tiffany Sedaris
« on: January 20, 2017, 01:51:34 PM »
 You know Inculcated - there are people that Mr. Sedaris can speak with  about his sister , who knew her in Elan.  If he really cared , and wanted to ease the pain of not knowing her  - There are Elan survivors on various sites that were with her , and remember her - this would really be easy for Mr. Sedaris if he just asked on this site.

Open Free for All / Re: Resuscitation
« on: January 20, 2016, 07:58:12 PM »
 Froderik -I sent you a message thru fornits pm - didn't seem to log it either - shoot -shot hope it makes it- it would suck if it didn't .


Elan School / Re: RIP Tiffany Sedaris
« on: January 19, 2016, 11:14:51 PM »
Inculcated – thank you for putting up this new  information. Since I don't read nor have I read any of David Sedaris's books, this is very helpful in assisting me in seeing things in very different light. These are not the kind of books that I generally would read for pleasure and fun. I think of them as sorta like a little to fru- fru for my tastes. Therefore I am not familiar with his books. I am however aware that he is a well read author, and is considered the darling of the NPR. 

I read the New Yorker magazine article, that was posted where he wrote of Tiffany his sister, of her suicide. I also commented as it being sad and beautiful because of the way  Mr. Sedaris  appeared to use his palette and odd  command of the English language, I felt that he missed her. Grief can be portrayed in a myriad of ways.

I knew nothing of the fact that he has made his money writing about the foils and foibles of his family. I didn't realize to the full extent that he was making his money off of Tiffany's pain and misfortune. While not assisting her in any real meaningful fashion since he has become rather wealthy writing about his families dis-functionality as the Sedaris's  navigated their own universes.

I am now of an understanding that Mr. Sedaris was in this article trying to push the guilt of his sisters suicide off as it was because she was all involved in nefarious things like drugs.  Or that she chose a lifestyle that was something he could not understand and therefore it was okay to condescend.  He was sane and Tiffany, after all, and untruthfully, he tells any unsuspecting reader, she only had two boxes of personal effects from fifty years of life,  a life as he writes " contained in two boxes".

His statement about her,  I now realize unequivocally lacking in any sense of compassionate feeling, that she “never could stop talking about Elan” relates to me just how much of a calloused individual this writer appears, for writing about a family member that has made for him a nice sustainable sustenance as a writer of the so called un-regular American family.

The loving brother as the unwitting witness to the sadness of his sister's death that in reality is contradicted  by the stark blinding evidence-  had  helped perpetuate her sadness and thus exacerbated the probable finality of that final option that Tiffany, sadly chose to exercise. As a human being this man has what some would say a lot of damn gall. The examining of, of the evidence presented, leads me to now believe,  is the truth.

So instead of editing my original comment, I would like to say that as one gets the usual cuts and scrapes from climbing the tree of knowledge. I would like to re express my sentiment concerning David Sedaris's thoughts on his sisters untimely death, by this new comment.  A sane man is entitled to change his opinion when led to a different conclusion than originally first believed because there certainly is more to the story than just his article for the New Yorker magazine.

No longer  do I find it beautiful and insightful . Merely a poor attempt by a man who seems to try to  absolve a perceived guilt. Sedaris had the means and ways to assist, with out consequence to his account, and he chose not, instead he chose to laugh at Tiffany. The blame the victim, and worse a victim that cannot respond in defense, ever again. A person thoroughly used as a means to bring fame and fortune to him as a writer, despite her objections/pleas of not being the subject matter,  it is disgusting and cruel. 

It is very telling, when one knows the facts, that can also be found in his books as expressed by the many who find his stories about Tiffany unsettling actually  maligning a soul made to look so far with in with no net to catch below.     

I  do however still find that it shows just how fragile children/ human beings were left after having experienced a place that should never have been allowed ever to exist, Elan.  Yet  a place that used criminal sadistic child abuse per a practical treatment method as insane as that is, that is what Elan was.

I am glad I have not given this man any money for his books, and Inculcated I don't think I am ever going to begin. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to change/clarify my opinion on the matter of his article and providing the information to do this honestly.



Feed Your Head / Re: So I write
« on: January 15, 2016, 02:28:58 PM »
Ajax -  I was doing  another Edit prior to seeing your most recent comment  - just to correct some words add some words and give credit to where I had found those articles I had for  the links on my comment . Though still keeping the grist of what I was trying to convey. maybe expounding on it,  a bit, and trying to put in a more coherent  fashion -  for people reading besides as well.         
I am going use the link of yours to share , absolutely to people who might be ignorant of the trail from here , US   the name changes as  how this industry plays the game of hide as it runs elsewhere under another name gets pounded down( the wack a mole  ) and closed under the new name and then this practice  runs to Canada under a new name to finally gets a little spotlighting on its practices and origins, from  that  good CBC  report .

Sadly many know that this is the m.o. of many of these programs, they  get busted abusing children under this name move to another state or next county even - and change the name and its business as usual. AARC's  creation and trail is well documented and makes it so much more easy as a tool to explain  and exhibit -  more clearly than writing about it. It is matter of fact and straight forward.


Open Free for All / Re: Resuscitation
« on: January 13, 2016, 11:23:25 AM »
I understand the language you are using - I work thru plateau s , and it does suck when you feel like there is stagnation- for me that is doesn't happen as much as say when I was younger - the plateau-s seemed higher and harder to traverse so to speak- as one constantly is learning  their instrument - I think back to my first 6 months just trying to master the d to a c thing and g thing - but now its not even a thought it just happens effortlessly thinking back then will I ever get it- god my fingers hurt - and the like ... 

Maybe  it is because  I know so many songs and when I work thru my stuff as I am always practicing I work thru 10 15 songs at a time - the repertoire is always changing the way even the way  I play songs is really never really the same though , I do have a very good sense of meter and beat  and time etc which is important - lol not to sound like I am all over the place   and then that one - as I think wow I have not  played that one in a while  -

 I find that songs tend to grow in you when you don't play that particular song in a while  - it is almost like they mature or if you will in you when you haven't played that one in a while and you dig that cherished nugget back up- I notice it -  as you play a song that has not been played in a while as you bring it back to life ( there is that  it is alive thing again -lol you resurrect that song  ) you hear a different way to play it and you hear as you play it how it has grown and that feeling is a life giving gift/force . 

 you understand-  I reckon - I trust- I hope - my younger bro-homind  talks about  your band - not gonna mention - wouldn't be prudent - though he does and it is cool. You touched him thru your music - tis  very cool man.     

Heck man I don't want to post my e mail here - lol- and why not Matt?  big smiles - Froderik there are many that have it and since the messaging thing doesn't  work so well - shoot anyone who has it is welcome to shoot it to you -  - I don't know if you are telling me to shut up - which I doubt or you want to take this private which maybe everyone else reading would like - I don't know you are welcome to e mail me man - feel free.

And lets stop talking- (like that is going to happen  )  about music and just  jam - seriously.

It does a body and soul good  ......and the beat goes on .



Elan School / Re: The Trailer for "The Last Stop "
« on: January 13, 2016, 10:36:48 AM »

 Hi Inculcated,
You are welcome for the warning and thank you for your words - I am at a loss sometimes like the story you posted about the fellow in the system who is suing and being counter sued - I am at a loss for words though I am glad you brought that to "our" attention . just make me well you know -smh. and internally howl. 

Now as for mettle - yes - I agree and  I am truly amazed at the "genius" because you know I  write ( hack write ) - I have been accused of thinking that I am a writer - no worries  -  though at lest I can edit, most every where I write - and I can do it over and over until - it is right for  me and I can also keep going back depending just how compulsive I might become and with it and before I decided it is done, you follow me.

Writing a  book one has proofreaders and the like so you are not alone in that endeavor, it gets gone over by many - unless you are that good of course and you just do it all and self publish .  -  This rising film maker does this in his spare time, when he is not working  and it is he who does it no one else - that is "genius " because from what I also understand  the editing is the crux of the biscuit so to speak - it makes it or you have a just a lot  of film - there  are bad movies - out there and  they flop -   

 With film as I understand it - one can edit, edit ,and spend maybe  thirty hours editing for just a few minutes of film   - but when it is done it is done - when it is released  it is set in stone - it is really so much more than  just mettle and "genius" - and lots of time- I don't know ....

That  3 minute trailer - moved me to tears like I have said  from  my experience - my friend with such  sensitivity, and creativity  and that "genius" tells "our" story about that place in the back woods of Maine where no one could hear our screams  from physical/emotional pain. The mettle - the fortitude to tell it  so amazing  also  -  the justice  he is doing to the story  thru  using  that medium - I am in awe . Our story is going  to be told and in this day and age there aren't many that read, it is all video  faster to process - straight to the brain  a sad commentary on society -as  I go off on another tangent. 

 I am a musician first , a hack of a writer second  (maybe) and a father and husband all the time - I am no film maker - it is a gift that I will never understand - and  I love film, movies - like all do.

I also look forward to his documentary - with many (boxes) tissues at hand - why did he have to make it so compelling. I hear you inculcated and again nice to see you in these here parts - 



Feed Your Head / Re: So I write
« on: January 13, 2016, 09:50:26 AM »
Ajax - I totally agree with you that the American media is just not  honest - middle Americans doesn't  ask the questions( well some do ) or demand of the media to investigate or demand that it reports a serious  crime. The know nothing American media is it  scared of  telling the truth-   - does money  tell  it what it can and cannot report -( Adelson tries to buy a Las Vegas newspaper? )  Or is it “say it isn't so” the American Government.     

I recently  questioned politely  an Editor  why the complete,  whole story of the TTI (abusive) industry isn't reported  since it so very easy to find on the  internet. I was told because the incident(s) of abuse in this  story for example - are local,  indeed I said as one reads the above article of alleged  child abuse at a  ( RTC) teen boarding school, in Yoncalla,  Oregon. by the Statesman Journal- 

And when one looks at the more recently sanitized version of  local reporting  very different, below same place different paper  the Register Guard - a few weeks apart and this was what  that paper reported:

Oregon Human Services Department threatens license of Yoncalla teen boarding school

I  asked as  to why the greater story of the TTI is not  reported - it is  huge  it might be one  of the biggest crime  stories ever- as this industry continues to nationally operate under  large corporations , conglomerates of  the troubled teen industry, for example UHS, the answer apparently  it is not local.

Then I asked why did you send my letter that I wrote way back  2000 to the Greenwich Times - this is not in dispute - and the answer was "that was all I could do". And I can agree since my letter of serious  content  did not contain actually proof – as I put forth  a searing indictment of Joe Ricc's Elan , located in Poland ,Springs Maine .

I re- read your topic concerning  the “know nothing media” - Ajax13- and then it struck   me you are not talking about the media being dumb - ( this by the way is a complete re-edit -) no not by any means it is a very  knowing and  from this knowledge, indeed appears calculating/protecting of  this horrid industry that abuses children for a serious  profit since this troubled teen industry  does exist nation wide.

The American media certainly does know and in fact since 2000 it was told  by my letter of serious indictment  ; Dear Sirs, That besides the Kennedy's family  having suffered  severe tragedies,  Joe Ricci needs to be  reminded that  many, families  have suffered severe tragedies, as well as their loved ones  from just having come in contact with  him, his elan ,and his cretins that helped him run it "…... a little more accurate  version as to what my letter contained.

I went on to write of the tragedies  suffered -  only three paragraphs  my  letter -I know he couldn't print it then because it  was a serious letter of indictment, that mentioned an American families  household well known name   - yet why I asked was my letter  sent ( faxed ) across the country to the Greenwich Times and the answer was " that was all I could do " . I understand this there were no real supporting statement of facts , witnesses,  like there are now.

Please Mr. Jackman Wilson - I may butter you up on a comment- sure- it was an intense time for me  - and you have the audacity to blow smoke a representative  and a member of the media as well as Mr. Mike Sweeny knew  way back then  -( his out of not knowing  is that he doesn't work at the GT any more).

 Mr. Wilson you sent a letter  3000 miles across the country  in 2000. So yesterday  I asked if you had any idea  why the  American  media since you are a member of the this establishment by being an Op Editor for the Register Guard now and certainly then in Jan 0f 2000.

Why  does  the knowing American media  not report on the bigger picture of this  TT industry, and you said we report on the local abuses - Funny it appears that the know nothing local   media apparently can't   report accurately  on the abuses  reported by another paper in its own state –

Again  in 2000 that letter ( my letter ) of serious indictment of Joe Ricci , and his Elan  goes across the country from Eugene Oregon to Greenwich, Connecticut  to me I think certainly that is not  local reporting/or investigating  – is it colliusion/complictly ?  of this known participant of  Joe Ricci's Elan  in the greater scheme of the TTI, since both papers Editor's told me they could not print my letter – though Mr. Sweeney called me up upon receiving the faxed copy of my letter sent by Mr. Jackman Wilson  to ask me if I had indeed written it ,though he told me he  can't print it.

There is no dispute about my letter being sent across the country as I have described – and I have written about this before on this site,  the my letter  and Mr. Sweeny   etc, a while back actually, here on Fornits. I asm not going to go look for it , christ I know it is here.

I see  that in state “local reporting”  the local  media cannot   apparently  report accurately/ consistently   as we see from the two posted articles about the same place -concerning abuses -

What concerns me even more  the Register Guard sent  a  letter  across the country – the American media  knew about Elan - as did the American  media member, the  Greenwich  Times  on the east coast back in 2000 -

True the Greenwich Times  was really reporting and  investigating  the murder of Martha Moxley  that happened in 1975- by allegedly by a Kennedy relative who was one of Joe Ricci's residents  at his Elan. This is also very  documented, and confirmed by Mr. Sweeny ,as he mentioned to me that the story was more about the person who allegedly murdered a young woman in 1975, and not Elan.   

The results the  abuses of Elan  as it effected  many other  American families who I opined had suffered as well as the loved ones who are/were known  to me, by  my letter, in effect was  tip to the American media back in 2000 as that letter traveled rather un- locally across the nation, about a known imo criminal organization that was very active  and evidently protected as this organization's certain facts became  known over the years since 2000  as the Elan  Corporation/ school Joe Ricci's protected golden cash cow, started to be exposed by survivors of that hell hole, as we wrote about it everywhere we could.   It started in 1970 and wasn't closed until 2011- interesting?

And I am told that was all the Register Guard  could do  was fax that letter . Sounds like bad American media - knowing about  a continuing crime  and not reporting it or investigating it as it was well known to this know nothing American media – jeez.     

The  question  I asked yesterday was why the  media doesn't report one of the biggest crimes against children and scams against parents  in this country the  Troubled Teen ( abusive)   industry, it has simply become so apparent  when the media has  known about  this sick industry  for at least  16 plus  years, it has certainly known about the existence   of this abhorrent industry. - are we the  public to believe  reporters cannot  google the words Troubled Teen Industry - and not see it first hand, the information   rolls across the screen, or do their screens simply black out and nothing can be seen by a reporter googling – the troubled teen industry. 

 I wrote a letter expressing back in January of 2000 ( there is no dispute about this fact ) my  first hand knowledge of a sadistic ,violent ,brutal , soul eating hell hole as I was quoted by Judy Meyers Editor  in the newspaper, and  American media member the  Lewiston Sun Journal, in Lewiston, Maine when Elan closed in 2011 - but I wrote my letter in 2000. Why 11 years  so late ?

I will give, that in Maine, Elan existed at the pleasure and protection of the very people that valued money more than the very lives of children they were entrusted to protect by  the   state offices they held. A Point made by Mr. Roy Gutfinski's comment on Mr.Bill Diamonds amazon book review page  , the Evil and the Innocent, and Mr. Gutfinski courageously comes forward after have retired after having held the position of a Maine State parole and probation officer for close to 34 years , who states he was told by superiors that if he kept making the problems he knew about Elan, that he  could become the problem “and be made to disappear like Jimmy Hoffa”.

Hoffa vanished in 1975.

Really know nothing American media this man made this comment  over a year plus ago- It can be read on the Elan site as well here on Fornits– don't and please don't take my word for it – please read his .comment/statement concerning the protection he learned that as he was told early in his career , threatened really, that he could become the problem and be made to disappear just like Jimmy Hoffa as he learned of the protection  Joe Ricci and Elan enjoyed provided by people in Maine state office.

I had to write that twice – it is so darn mind boggling the implications of Roy Gutfinski's words are  deafening loud, and indicting of the corrupt protection that was affored Joe Ricci and his Elan . Goes all the way back to Gov. Longly in 1975 . See trailer for The last Stop   Illinois   knew when they tried to pull out its states wards , in 1975., and what  Illionois was found was deplorable -

And of course the DoJ needs to speak with this man Roy Gutfinski a former officer of law ,  coerced to get in line with the protection afforded the Elan place in Poland Springs Me. The DoJ needs  gets off its collective rear end and begin a politically unbiased investigation in to the Elan school, using the Rico Act an investigative and prosecutorial tool the DoJ  ( Federal Dept of Justice) has that tool that  can be used to investigate and prosecute criminal organizations imo like Joe Ricci's Elan that ran for close to forty years –  regardless of the fact Elan closed in 2011.

Elan survivors know that the state of Maine is totally incapable of conducting an investigation of this nature because of the stink that allowed Elan to exist as it ran (again ) imo as a criminal organization for close to forty years – And this is certainly a known  story by the American media in the State of Maine – Judy Meyers knows Mr. Bill Diamond and he is not going to be investigated by her news organization The Lewiston Sun Journal that she is an editor, and since it is a local story – man how it stinks, this bleeding festering wound  on Maine State history all the way down here to  Virginia, and the stench can be smelled  from this wound  3000 miles away in Oregon as it's Register Guard ,a member of the  American media ,has  known about Elan for over 16 years.   

And to the American media this isn't news nor worth reporting as Elan is/was a part of this sick and utterly criminal Troubled Teen Industry – that thrives under the watch of the know nothing American media – one word please. 

Know nothing my American eye balls  , -media -  So where actually is the Know nothing American  media on this - a big sick story, one so sick it encompasses so many states, even countries,  Canada's AARC,  which came from  a closed and rightfully  closed abusive, Kids of  Bergin county of New Jersey ,  -a spin off of  the Straights   that was closed in Florida for being abusive to children- information so easily found. The trail of these people can be followed as they close down under one name and open up as they migrated north to eventually Canada and set up shop as AARC.

Same abusive techniques that closed Straights, as employees  from Straights started Kids of Bergin county new Jersey same abusive practices – really same program just a different name – shut down –in this criminal sadistic child abusing for profit industry aka the Troubled Teen Industry. Whack a mole indeed.

 It is beyond my imagination , this story Happened/ is  happening right underneath this know nothing American media's collective noses as the original story I read that set me off about Joe Ricci's Elan  was under the AP ( associated press) writing and release back in 2000.

At least the CBC has the guts to investigate and thru the programing of  the fifth estate,  the dishonest  know nothing American media refuses to investigate and actually report  about this crime happening against the American population's must vulnerable population , children , and in some cases abusing the daylights out of at risk children placed by states as they look for programs for their wards because of they  monies they are willing to spend getting the child's case off the desk of state social workers.

This industry preys on parents fears as it manipulates them into believing that their child if not placed in a program will  that child will soon be dead  shilled by  Education consultants that feed the children by predatory and false marketing practices  used on parent to get hteir loved children  into these abusive programs.

So disgusting is this issue that festers  and grows effortlessly under the watch of the know nothing American media.   

Ajax I am no reporter and if person  like I can read  and make  the connections of  abuse easily to  programs operating  today  - one would think the American Media could very easily  connect those very dots and  collectively  report on this insane crazy abuse as therapy for profit industry -

 last time I looked child abuse is a crime - a very serious crime , and that is what this sick industry profits upon. And to think this knowing American media   knows very well about this insidiously sick Troubled Teen Industry it is now looking like this troubled teen industry   exists at the pleasure of the American  MEDIA, whoa there certainly goes a bit  credibility right out the window. 

NBC news was to conduct  interviews of survivors of abusive programs , one was a Canadian survivor ,  about  2.5 or so years   ago – It was posted on Reddits  talked about on a  Reddits sub called the Troubled Teen Industry, eventually this conducting of the interviews was quashed  -  And this is a  rather huge story -  one would think that it could be very easy for the  American media to report and expose to the mainstream  America this truly sad and sick, damaging  industry that profits on serial criminal child abuse  all over this country. Why was this  quashed ?

Know nothing shoot -it stinks so  badly this knowing and lack of reporting of a  serious criminal enterprise the T T abusive industry . Especially when it concerns the wide spread use of criminally abusing children as therapy – read the survivors stories  and then having the audacity to profit hugely on this to the tune of close to a billion dollars a year , as  this  criminal industry banks such profits  - it is just simply wrong.

A few I'd like to know who is telling the media not to report this crime  - it has become a too obvious a story to not report  - who is knowingly telling the media to ignore this story ? Who has the power to tell the American media to not report this rather extensive that has key players UHS (universal heath services )

 Can the Associated Press(AP) or news organizations, United Press International(UPI) ,   be taken to court  for not reporting/ and certainly knowing about a  crime, of abusing children for profit ? Can the press be forced to report a crime since  many people know the  American media certainly  knows about this TTI and stories of chronic abusive practices masquerading as therapy   ?

Ajax I want to snag that reporting  that was done by the CBC - on Dean  Vause's- little scam imo he has got tooling along in Canada ,  the  hidden camera footage is  just typical of this industry ,  it is not us that are doing it , Vause complains its  the victims and survivors  that are  lying , just grossly sickening and typical as these places  like the Scotts Valley School that “Oscar” had originally  posted  (and I posted here at the top  in my comment ) on the section on  this site Fornits  called the Trouble Teen Industry, and the subsequent follow up story by the Register Guard from the 8th of this month January  I found on Reddit's TTI.   

I would like   to put  the  CBC video  on  another site. I trust/hope  you won't mind. 

In my opinion one way or another this story has got to end.  And for god's sake American media please just give me some truth.       




Open Free for All / you know Frodrik -the wise
« on: January 09, 2016, 09:14:28 PM »
man you really make profound sense  -  than  at first when I read ( my problem amigo- soy  loco)  - How after a "gig" you have that/those  " down" times-  and you have to -absolutely -  just play------  as I think, and would say have" to re- validate" the fact that you can do that "stuff " on that instrument -  Man Brother Forderik  no truer nor wise words - when I really give it the thought that I think you meant - ( I hope you forgive me , I have no ides how to quote  feature here and it  may seem like I am cherry picking ( not ) .  brother I agree -  it  just hit me with  full impact of your words -( yeah I didn't get to ride any bus) -lol-

Wanna play a 1965 Gibson  melody maker D - its  got p90s (old old  90s ) instead of the original " lipperstickers" -  you may have  heard  that rode  in those things originally.   - Man I would really like to Jam - and you know why - Good as one might be you  still have to re- validate- I don't care who you are - validate  - after going few  days of not  playin- that -yeah man- that's what I can do with that thing -  and you know what------  its all groovy man .

Che man if you lose it totally( hearing)  - you can always feel the bass- the beat  - the lowest rumble and that aint no baloney ( no derogatory )  - reminds me of a story ..... 



Open Free for All / Re: Resuscitation
« on: January 07, 2016, 11:30:01 AM »
Thank you Froderik - it worked ... And thank you Che  for also trying to assist -   now back to our  topic Resuscitation- big smiles



Open Free for All / Re: Resuscitation
« on: January 06, 2016, 09:11:42 PM »
Quick question - anyone and sorry  this is very off topic - how does one post a video on fornits so it opens up with the first frame of the video -  Froderik- Che -Antigen. I posted a short thing by a friend about Elan on the Elan section of this site   and it didn't post like how Felice or Froderik get theirs  to post - and Felice is not available at the moment.



Elan School / The Trailer for "The Last Stop "
« on: January 06, 2016, 09:03:02 PM »
A friend of mine is making a documentary called "the Last Stop " it is about Elan - It can be triggering to people that experienced this type of abuse as therapy. It went up yesterday, the first time I saw it a few hours ago -it made me cry. I had to call up my friend and  thank him - this is the trailer for his film. It is good to see Mary and Doug who were in Elan  with me during my time. Maia Salavitz is in this also. Gird yourself  accordingly - it is intense.

were do I sighn up - too funny -  it seems that the federale deportmant  of edchucattion  strongly supports this efort, and peetitshen

thanks Froderik  I fineally watched et and man did I lauff.



Open Free for All / Re: Resuscitation
« on: December 20, 2015, 11:24:39 PM »
Che- didn't see the edit of your post until I had finished writing - and man I understand what you mean about folks that leave college need a job and get the bait and switch pulled on them as they get a job working for these places - thinking that they can make a difference with  at risk children -  and it gets most of  them all - I know who Lifton is- though one book I read recently was Philip Zimdardo's book" The Lucifer Effect".

It deals with the Stamford Prison Experiment, which was conducted by Mr. Zimbardo and compares and contrasts what was gleaned from the Stamford Prison Experiment, ( conducted in 1970) with   the Abu Graibi prison  in Iraq. The  prison in Iraq- which resulted in the issues of  severe degradation and out right torture of the prison inmates - Sadly only a few at the bottom of the chain of command  got in trouble when it should have caused heads to roll and prison terms for many of the rank and file.

Sure what guards  did was wrong but there were so many that should have been held accountable and not just the grunts who foolishly took the pictures - The Lucifer Effect -it is a great read. 

 And Che as a survivor I thank you for the words you wrote - it is not so much anger for me and I speak for myself, and please I hope no one is  confusing the notion of "seeking justice" with being angry.

It is the awe that I hold  for - Elan- that destroyed so many ,many lives and tore families apart the awe that I hold for Elan as it  how it was able to exist for so long and  the fact that many former residents of Elan  are dead - people I knew and people I didn't know but have confirmed the facts of their demise- is what drives me to seek justice,  people like Philip Williams ( who I didn't know ) , Tom Hassel , and I can go on and on with nanes that wouldn't mean a thing to anyone but they are dead in my opinion  from just having come in to contact with Joe Ricci , his program Elan and the untrained ,uneducated  miscreants  that worked there for him.

You know when I was being escorted up to Maine I actually had resigned my self to the fact that this might be a good situation for me-lol- where I would get competent assistance in dealing with  my  sadistic abusive up bringing - that I was going to get help that I needed  in dealing with the monster that was my primary caregiver - and the learned hopelessness that he  had schooled me in would be addressed( of course I was not knowledgeable as to just what "learned hopelessness was at the time - I just knew things were not right with in me- hindsight is 20 -20)  - I was incredibly and understandably a severely depressed child when I arrived at Elan.

It didn't take long for me to see  that this was very bad place, a bad place to say the least - That about a month  and some  after I got there. I figured that if Elan was the bootcamp of life as it billed itself  and all I had known was abuse growing up,  and all I was seeing at Elan was crazy sadistic  abuse that in my child like mind (  shoot I was a child  at 15 and a half years old ) I just figured and put 2 and 2 together that life must be nothing but just this  crazy sick abuse/pain that ( and I talked about this at that conference in 2001 ) I then  made the decision that if life was nothing but sickness/pain  then I didn't want to be part of it  anymore. 

I attempted suicide in Elan by drinking a bottle of qwell shampoo - a flea, tick  and lice poison - Maia Salavitz wrote about that incident  and what I related at that conference  in her book ,by the name called  Help At any Cost.

A friend  found me in convulsions, convulsing in my bloody vomit - I had bounced off my top bunk - of course now I am certainly glad I didn't succeed in that endeavor - lol- to say the least - though sadly  my friend who found me in convulsions that night  - sadly he did succeed in suicide about 8 years ago.

Che I wouldn't consider you a chump - I think you may have been bamboozled  and used  because I believe you really did want  to make a difference in at risk childrens lives and do so  in survivors lives to this day  - even if as you  say you aren't a survivor.  You care and folks can see it.

The Employees at Elan made life long careers out of serial criminal child abuse, and they made Ricci a millionaire ten times over and those are the bastards that are responsible - The folks that signed on and quit after a few months to 6 months- they were the ones that knew what Elan was doing was criminal/sick and they wanted no part because they realized that they couldn't make it a better place for the residents - because it truly was  a sick  fraudulent scam, a golden cash cow that many who had an interest in Elan  did everything possible to keep it from being slaughtered.

People like Morris Fink ,Ronnie Evans, Marc Rosenberg  are as culpable as the lifetime employees  of Elan and what is funny these miscreants can't even apologize for their actions nor can they simply return a phone call from an Elan survivor  because they are such cowards - and as much as honesty was part of Elan's spiel - these folks simply can't be honest as to the sickness they participated in and the harm/sadistic abuse   they had us do to each other. They were the adults.

Kruglik , Gottlieb , and Sharon Terry - the ones who made life long careers out of being serial child abusers to the nth degree and are alive today  simply need to go to prison -where they belong -  and it is something that is very possible - the ones that protected Elan as it operated  in my opinion as a continuing criminal enterprise for close to forty years in that state of Maine also need some alone time in prison - the wheels of justice turn very slowly  but they do turn.

Che the book by Phillip Zimbardo is a really good read - it doesn't explain though,  why former employees of Elan kept on abusing Elan survivors post their Elan experience, but I believe that to work at Elan you really had to be sick in the head and enjoyed being paid for being a child abusing sadist.

Again- thank you  Che for your words concerning survivors- (of really any program). For me in  particular it  means a lot because  no smoke is  being blown, and honesty goes very far in my book.








Open Free for All / Re: Resuscitation
« on: December 20, 2015, 10:07:15 PM »
right on Che - I don't think they will be coming back- moderation is key and the no attack policy is the way to be. 

- I think the crowd sourcing idea is fantastic.  I saw it on another site and thought- that is truly a good idea. I was surprised how it was just shirked off on another person - if one doesn't know how to do it and one is young enough- they can learn  - I am sure they would be able to figure it out - then I am sure there are many other issues as to why  it was shirked off - which I truly understand still it should be supported and I am sure some one can be found to put a face on that project, that would be a survivor.

I hope Fornits doesn't  get put into archive anytime  soon - there are some things that I would like to see play out- that I vigilantly pay attention to. - It is a great resource and as I schlepp thru the various websites/opportunities I find  that I post about Elan - it is nice to be able to link back to an active  Fornits .

Anyways I am tired just got back from doing a little shopping for the family and stuff - I thank you for letting a former resident of Elan post here, it was cool to be able to post the truth and  to clarify - I do have a record of speeding though nothing else in regards to any other serious  criminal record - Felice is right I don't have that much of an experience with the inside of a courtroom - And I do think if  properly prodded  the judicial system can work  for survivors. 

I am glad you understand what I meant and wrote about my "teen-ager " You know for the life of me I could never place my children in any program to do the work of parenting for me. And since I am not a sadist and I love my children - I know and believe that they are going to be fine- really no worries  - they are truly beautiful and amazing growing human  beings with so much to offer- though  at this  stage they  can be very  interesting - and keep me on my toes - as has been  said with out love in the dream -it will never come true.

Che if I don't hear from you, please  have a great holiday season and a excellent start to the new year. 

Froderik - you do the same and holler soon-  and for the other silent readers - y'all have a wonderful holiday season and an excellent start to the new year too.. Ajax if you are reading I hope to continue some of those discussions, the material is interesting and seems like Mr. Sanders has a notion about it also,  though because of the powers that be he hasn't a chance sadly  as  a snow storm happening  in hell.




Open Free for All / Re: Resuscitation
« on: December 19, 2015, 10:09:44 PM »
I don't know where those folks went Che -   I am glad that the lunacy went away when the rules of no attacking were enforced by the administrators  of this site - and quite frankly I am glad they are gone,  and they obviously weren't wanting justice for Elan survivors. 

I wonder if they were  in Elan - like the person who sent the fax to Angela of heal - If I remember you told the Elan  folks that it wasn't a former resident from Elan who sent that fax to Heal/ Angela  - It eventually made sense what you wrote and I think I know who sent that fax and you are right it wasn't a former resident from Elan.

Why? you don't want them back do you - lol. I am kidding of course. It was rather stunting to the cause.


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