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Topics - Paul St. John

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We should consider that a victory and applaud

It sticks around, because people still got
things to say, and that's great.

But it's not the grand central station it
once was..

reason being,, it fulfilled it's purpose.

We concretised out own views and changed the
views of the country.

... and vented and had a lot of fun along the way.

It may never be documented,  but history was made,
right here,  in this webpage called ,
" Fornits".

one of the best quotes I ever heard
was , " The goal of an honest organization
is to put itself out of business"

Elan School / Some Clarification Please?
« on: October 06, 2011, 01:00:37 PM »
Now, I know.. I know.. some very sensible people are probably thinking me dumb for feeding into this shit, but I would like to understand what is going on.. AND I really don t feel like sifting through over a hundred pieces of bullshit to figure it out..

Wayne, if you care to respond-

What are you actually accusing Danny of?  ( I know it has something to do with sex... and I think taht there are a few different things...

Please , Wayne don t go into a whole big spiel....

I am accusing danny of:




After you have managed to list them, I am curious, if you have any proof, other then your own word...  Again simple..

My proof for 1.  is a.  , b.   c.  etc.

Real proof please.. Not a bunch of bullshit....

Now, if you were sexually abused or know about such things occurring, I understand that it is a ver sensitive issue, and very painful to deal with, so I don t mean to be treating you like the criminal, but the burden of proof is always on the accuser, and at least - with me, if you want to be taken seriously, you are going to have to prove your case.

At this point in time, I am leaning towards thinking that it did not happen. However, I am not certain of this.  I have lived long enough to know, that when it comes to sexual abuse, it is very the people very least expect, so why not Danny then?  I mean- church-goers, neighborhood benefactors.. school teachers.. you name it.. and none of their freinds and loved ones can ever believe it.  That is trhe only reason, I am considerring it as possible, and because if that did happen to you, I feel for ya.

I have to say, to me this is a pretty big deal.. One one hand, if Danny did it, he is a sick fuck.. and you are surely a victim... On the other hand, if he did not, you are ripping a man's reputation to shreds, and you are a sick fuck, or maybe even just mistaken.... Your books seemed so credible when I read it, and yet for some reason, I am leaning towards believing Danny.  

Paul St. John

Open Free for All / Re: Fornits Making a Comeback
« on: June 10, 2011, 11:54:07 AM »
It's friendly "advice"- not advise.. and that is the second time that you spelled like that, that I have seen.  Oh, and it's "you're"- not "your"- all mistakes that Whooter would not make.

Although th new fake whooter has done an amazing job of capturing the essence of the real whooter..

But let's test the theory... Stop posting for a few days, and let's see what happens.

Elan School / My Thoughts on where to go next..
« on: June 03, 2011, 05:27:33 PM »
I see a lot of Elanians still pumped.  they are empowered, by the shutting down.  they are looking to do something.  It is all over facebook... "Core Group", etc.

I just wanted to give my thoughts on what I think would be the natural objective to pursue.  Of course, you want to network with, and support those exposing other programs..

But in my view, the next natural step, is to strip Elan of it's victim-hood.  They closed because of unfair internet attacks.  they are playing the victim.  It is a first step to shut them down, and very important one.. the bullshit stops.  It is over.  But full justice, in my mind, requires exposing the fact that they were the bad guys, and they were closed by the good guys.. They need to take responsibility.  

Paul St. John

Elan School / My viewpoint...
« on: May 27, 2011, 01:20:57 PM »
Hey... How ya doin'?  It's Paul St. John... that crazy motherfucker, who never went to Elan, but is all sorts of into it, to the extent that you'd think he sometimes forgets that.... LOL!

Not sure how many people are still reading here 'bout Elan.... but I wanted to give me thoughts on something, and I thought that this would be the best place to do it.  

It's not over.. at least not in my view... Closing that place was only the beginning.  I hope someday to see a grand, huge, tremendous exposure.  Poor Elan closed because of Elan attacks by that evil villian, gzasmyhero, or something like that.  They are still not bad guys.  I hope more will be done.. and to those who take that on, or are already in the process of taking that on, I wish you my best, and give ya my respect.  Expose Elan... Rock the whole industry.. This time around.. We are the winners... not the victims.  Read the posts at fornits.. We are smart people ( excluding Danny - only kidding) and we got heart. There is no reason, why the world should not see what we see.

If it is okay to abuse drug users in their own best interest, then why not attack overweight people who eat too much, or people to ingest too much sugar.  Too many people think that it s okay , because this shit happened to drug addicts... It's that time of stupidity and indifference that create a society of people who want to be somewhere else, hence escape through drugs.  I was strong as a rock when I went into Daytop... I had more heart then they did... They tried to disassemble me.  Where do you get a degree to disassemble somebody and put them back together.. Is there  an exact science? How does this work?  What exact identifications of the human psyche is this procedure and theory based on?  NONE  NADA NIENTY!   They are experimenting on people.  That's it.   with no regard for the people they are fucking up......

Peace Out,

PS  we are the best.. those who revisited it!  We are the ones who care..... We will be heard.... and we will change the world in our own small way

Daytop Village / A=A
« on: February 11, 2011, 01:27:46 PM »
It really was a shitty place to be, because you had no allies.  Always there lingered, fear.

.. the fear of being fucked over.. the fear of being screwed.... Objectivity was irrelevent, so you had little defense....

The people of status, and the workers there, were the ones that you could trust the least, and yet they were suppose to be helping you.

How do you win in such a place?

When I really thought about the place, I found it hard to believe that it existed, and yet somehow, it not only did exist, but also, I was there, and I couldn t get out.

I would have to be a player... playing everyday... always a battle... every day...

I feel like that some times to this day.  Things start to remind of that place, and I get all thrown off balance.. I go into war mode.. I become defensive and paranoid, and I fucking hate it..

Such a short period of time, in an entire lifetime, and yet still that shit effects me... I think because it is just an experience so far removed from the norm.

Still those assholes go on doing their thing.. all self-righteous, as though they are the saviors of society. They are the criminals... They are the crooks.  They are the  ones who cause unnecessary harm to others, and still they go on.  Still they operate as the choose... Daytop and similar programs..

and still those who speak out against them are labeled as " Fornits-people" even though there are many other sites all over the internet.  Still we are liars, or cult-like.... all suffering from some massive delusion.. We are program flunkies who didn t use the programs to our advantage,  or we are people who want to blame our problems on the program.

I knew that what I was experiencing was wrong, and I knew that I would speak out some day, the whole time I was there. I think it's great that so many other people are doing the same.. I give Wayne Kernochan the utmost respect for writing his Elan-book.

There's no law that says that anyone has to speak out at all. I commend those who do.

Open Free for All / Fornits should be flattered...
« on: July 27, 2010, 12:57:04 PM »
Between Whooter, he who likes to refer to himself as " Suck IT", and Danny's little tribe of bullies, it sure seems that many are worried about the impact that this one, single website can have on the viewpoint of the general public.

Paul St. John

Open Free for All / Parents should not look for advice on Fornits
« on: July 27, 2010, 05:39:48 AM »
What they should do is use their own minds to make their own decisions.  It is hard to make a good decision without being educated on a topic.  If you re intelligent, in my opinion, it is hard to make a decision, at all, without having all the facts.

Fornits is one resource a parent could use, in accumulating a point of view, about the programs, which can aid in making a decision. There are lots of other resources out there, as well.  Here, you will find the other side of the coin.  You will find here things that you would never even begin to think about, perhaps, just reading the literature that promotes the industry, or promotes any particluar program.  If you are considering sending your child to a program, you will find no shortage of the proposed benefits.  It is a business like any other, and there are people and media in place, to make a sale.

You can find some other information here, from people, who have been there. It could be helpful to look at both point of views, so you can make an informed decision.

Either way, I don t recommend giving your personal information to someone you do not know, because you never know how they will use it.

Paul St. John

Daytop Village / What I Wanted to Say to the Daytop Counselors
« on: July 16, 2010, 09:43:30 PM »
Ya know, it’s been  a very rough year for me.  I don’t know if you heard, but I developed a drinking problem and everything.   Do you think maybe you could tell me who I really am, and assault me with your pseudo-psychology another time?  This really is not a good time.  Can we play these childish games another time perhaps?  You see, my life actually has been difficult, and so I have had to grow up.  I can appreciate that you have yet to grow up, and so took a job making guesses about who people really are, and I am totally cool with it, but I really just don t have time for it now.  See, I  know, that this is all very fun for you, and that you really don t give a fuck about anybody, and that no one ever taught you that words have actual, purposeful meanings, and therefore, the best way to earn a living is by actually EARNING one, but I am not like these other kids.  I am not looking for a distraction from reality.  Every second that I waste on your stupidity, is a second that I could spend actually getting to the heart of the matter and really helping myself out.

See, I don’t think solutions actually require a a circus. See, if I want to get from one place to another, I just go there.  It does not require for me, that I redefine all of my terms.  I just go.  If I want to get to the end of a road,  I simply walk straight for a few minutes, and I am there.  I don’t need to dig up the street.  You counselors, just keep digging, and digging, and digging.   You feel at peace, when kids carry out their role in the play, because it makes you think that what you are doing is right.  When someone doesn’t play their role in your illusion, you get very scared, and so you start digging more, and more, and more, faster, and faster, until you make such a mess of things that the person does start to play along, just so you stop digging.

Can you look at me, please?  I am a man of dignity and integrity.  I don’t need your help.  It is a big mistake- My ending up in here.  I am not an idiot.  I don’t want to play your game.  You are helping no one.  You have helped no one.

But then this isn t really about helping anyone. Is it? It is about playing a game.  It’s about playing the “ we are real important and we know about stuff that nobody else does” game.   It is about pretending to have an occupation.

Do you really think screaming at people all of the time, is going to help them?  Have ever questioned this?

I know.  I am not suppose to be a man, and neither is anyone else here, suppose to be a man or woman.. The whole point is that we realize that we are “ family members” now.  We are suppose to accept our responsibilities to others.  There is only one problem with these responsibilities.  They are made up.  They are not real.  I don’t owe a single person in this facility a damned thing.  If anything ,you owe me for my time, and they owe me for all the stupidity, I have had to endure at the hands of the ignorant little fucks.  They are willing to be stupid.  I am not.  They think that another person can give them importance.  I do not.  They are willing to make the best out of regression.  I will be doing my best not to regress.

I know that you have been hurting people for so long, it’s hard to remember that that is not a normal thing to do, but don’t you ever feel even a little bad?  Are you really this stupid?  I know that you must have moments of clarity, but, I guess, that by now, you are pretty good at fighting them off.  All you counselors seem to be always immersed in your program-mentality.  I can understand why.  It must keep you very safe form the truth- YOU ARE AN ENEMY OF GOOD!

And that’s cool.  There are all sorts of fucked up assholes in the world, but again, I just don’t have the time for you now.   I got an interesting idea.  How ‘bout, you shut this shit down, let all the kids go( or these monsters you have created that were once kids), and you all just attack each other?  Nope!  That’s right.  I forgot.  Society owes you it’s kids, and a living, because you overcame YOUR drug addictions.  You had it so hard, and that makes you better then everybody else, and now they owe you.  They also owe you because you conformed for them.  You followed the program, and you gave up your destructive ways, for the good of others.  But that’s shit’s not free.  Now they owe you.  Others owe you.  You did this for them.

See, this is what it really looks like.  I am not guessing.

Paul St. John

Open Free for All / Reality Check
« on: July 14, 2010, 02:23:59 PM »
Niles, and Pile are immature, inconsiderate assholes. Whooter, is, also, just as much so.  They are on the same team.

If I hear about someone beating someone else up, because they are Met's fan.

And then I hear another story, about someone beating someone up, for being a Yankee fan...

I really don t care who was a fan of what, or what they claim their reason is... they are the same to me.

All three of you, took Morgan's situation, and made it all about you.  You continue to do it now, without any remorse, or even a single thought about the person, you were all supposedly trying to protect.

Niles still hides behind Morgan.. like she is some kind of cause.

You all make this site look bad if you ask me.  

DJ, I don t think you re too far off either.  You re an idiot.

Well, I feel better. :)


Open Free for All / "Isolated Incidents"
« on: July 12, 2010, 05:23:40 PM »
Can we please put an end to using this term?

The things that people write about here, that happened awhile back, may not have been yesterday, but they were certainly not isolated incidents.  They were the norm.  Can we all just agree to that?  Sometimes, the incidents were extra bad, like people dying, but even in the cases of the extremes, they were not isolated events.  They were events that were bound to happen every so often, under the circumstances created by the programs.

Paul St. John

Daytop Village / Fuck You, Daytop! I am Paul St. John. Fuck you!
« on: June 20, 2010, 11:42:34 PM »
To this day, I don t know how a bunch of kids, could get so stupid.  To this day, I don t know why it didn t work on me.

In my mind, it was the same type of mentality that leads to lynchings and Columbine-type shit.

I looked to them, and thought:

" What have you gained? You tricked somebody. What have you gained? You lied and pretended you were less then you actually were, because that is what they wanted to hear.  What have you gained? You made a fool of someone. What have you gained? You pretend to be uncertain when you actually are not.  What have you gained? You gave them everything they wanted.  What have you gained? YOu pretend you don t care about things, that you actually do. What have you gained? You played nice and told your life story over and over. What have you gained? You have fed the mouth that spits on you, and fancy yourself a winner."

I fought them every step of the way. And if I had to go back, I d do it all over again.


Daytop Village / It's getting harder to remember...
« on: June 20, 2010, 11:13:52 PM »
My mind just chooses not to understand the nature of these people as it once did.  I don t know if that is a good thing or a bad thing.


Daytop Village / He was like a legend or something
« on: June 19, 2010, 09:09:53 PM »
There was this guy, I always heard talk about in Daytop.  Everybody hated him.. Everybody, especially, the higher members.  he was like so bad.  There were all kinds of stories about him, and he had been sent to many Daytop facilities, all to no avail.  Then, all of a sudden one day, there he is. He didn t look so bad to me. I was shot down at the time, he came in shot down, and as well, he was the first person, I seen earn the status of "House Tool".  That meant, that anybody could make him do pretty much anything they wanted, at any time. Ya know.. not like really crazy shit. But the most important thing about " house tool" was that even shot downs could boss him around and make him do shit.  the status would get a glow in their eye, when they mentioned that little clause. After all, what could be more degrading then being fucked with by a shot down.  Shot downs were like the house losers. They had to sit on the floor all the time.  they only got 2 cigarettes a day, if they were lucky, and they had to "account" for those to earn them, they weren t even allowed to humm, and they just basically  couldn t show any signs of happiness, as well as getting all the worst chores.

I don t know. His first day, they put him up in front of the family, and all fucked with him.  I could see very clearly, that he wasn t a bad guy, but that he had at this point also accepted their view of him, as a burden that was his to carry. He was beaten to an extent but just not giving in. I remeber, they kept like trying to pressure me to boss him around cause i was a shot down, and that would like be so cool.  I was just always like , " Nah.  That s alright."

"But you re a shot down .  You re supposed to"

"Is there any rule that says that I have to?"


" Then I am not going to"

In my head, I m thinking.... Are you fucking kidding me? Why the fuck would I wanna do that?  Do you think I am an asshole like you?"

One day, the poor kid was actually given the opportunity to have a cigarette, but he didn t have one, and of course, no one would give him one, so I did.

" You re not allowed to give him a cigarette"

"Why not? It's my cigarette. "

"he's that.  he's this... He's the other thing."

"Okay.. well, I m giving him a cigarette.  you got a problem with it, you run it up the chain of command, by the time you get an answer, he ll have already smoked it."

Fucking punk, thought he was gonna bully me.  You wanna torture somebody, do it yourself asshole.

It s amazing how I can go right back into these memories.

The "House tool" was all like thanking me and shit.

I said, " For what? All I did was give you a cigarette."

I wasn t defending him, and I didn t want him to think that I was.  I didn t need him latching onto me. All I did was give him a cigarette.  With everything after that, I was defending my right, to be nice to someone who had done me no harm.


The floor is yours, Mr. Bennison...

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