Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: Troll Control on November 23, 2009, 04:02:53 PM
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Begin here and follow along... (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29294&start=30#p351834)
I read this part:
Cool, let's talk about your extensive criminal record. Personally, I wouldn't take advice from a criminal like you and I don't think anyone else would either. You're a fraud. You don't disclose your criminal record and act like you are the most moral of the people here, but now we know you're nothing but a reprobate. Tell us about your arrest for inappropriate sexual contact with a minor. Discuss.
Don't forget he's a common criminal as well:
I was arrested several times in Boston...
Funny, so was John Reuben. He was arrested several times in Boston as well. On the same dates TheWho was arrested. Coincidence? Hardly.
Anyway, why would any parent entrust their child's welfare to John Reuben, an admitted criminal with an extensive arrest record including public intoxication and destruction of property, who openly refers to the most abusive family of programs, Aspen Education, who had half of their programs in Oregon forcibly shut down by state investigators for murdering, abusing and neglecting children in their care, including sexualized humiliation by forcing little girls to give lap dances to and perform simulated felatio on their unlicensed, uneducated couselors?
Think about this, parents, before you make the biggest mistake of your and your kid's life.
Let's hear your explanation about why you attack everyone else's credibility when you are a convicted criminal. Why do you have an FBI number? Are you a spousal abuser, child molester or convicted felon? Why are you barred from owning a firearm, Whooter? My wife does the NCICS checks for handgun permits at the county sheriff's office and guess "who"se name comes right up as "restricted"? Please explain to the readers why you are concealing your extensive criminal record, Whooter.
Whooter tries to wiggle out of the problem:
Why are you barred from owning a firearm, Whooter? My wife does the NCICS checks for handgun permits at the county sheriff's office and guess "who"se name comes right up as "restricted"? Please explain to the readers why you are concealing your extensive criminal record, Whooter.
Ha,Ha,Ha so your wife plugged in the name Whooter and comes up with information? Dont you realize this is just a log in name? My name isnt really Whooter. I use to go by the name of "Thewho" and psy, I think, nicknamed me whooter which stuck for most people so this is what I go by now. But you cant do an FBI check on me lol.
Thats funny!
But the wiggle room is closed off:
No, she ran the name "John David Reuben" and came back with an exctensive arrest record beginning with petty crimes in Boston in the 1970's and one in Michigan, just like Whooter admitted to on this forum. So now we're supposed to believe, along with all of the other evidence that Whooter is Reuben, that their arrest records are identical by coincidence? Sorry, Whooter, but we all know who you are and this is just more proof. You're a low-life criminal and everyone should be aware of that.
Again, TheWho tries to make a joke of it and dismiss it, but it won't go away:
No, she ran the name "John David Reuben" and came back with an exctensive arrest record beginning with petty crimes in Boston in the 1970's and one in Michigan, just like Whooter admitted to on this forum. So now we're supposed to believe, along with all of the other evidence that Whooter is Reuben, that their arrest records are identical by coincidence? Sorry, Whooter, but we all know who you are and this is just more proof. You're a low-life criminal and everyone should be aware of that.
Oh No! I have an FBI record! What should I do? Now everyone thinks I am this guy Reuben. If I get fired will this give me more time to post? or will I have to go job hunting. Wait I am so confused, I thought I was employed by Aspen? At least that is what everyone was saying here on fornits. I am suppose to be a shill. Have I gone from a shill to a low life criminal? Is there a program for someone suffering with identity issues?
Back to the topic:
I think it has been pretty well documented that you are Reuben. You share the same criminal record, you both shill for Aspen, you both had a son die after attending SUWS and ASR, you both had a son at HLA, you both took a trip to Chicago to meet with Lon Woodbury, Leslie Goldberg and a host of other industry bogeymen just before STICC was launched. Really, you're not fooling anyone.
The criminal record just cemented the facts. What are the odds that two people share the same arrest record in two separate states for the same crimes at the same time?
Why don't you just explain to the readers how you and Reuben share so many similarities including an identical arrest record that you already admitted to here?
Good question. But it isn't answered.
You could probably document this Reuben guy as being there, but how do you place me there? You say you have documented evidence.
He just said I could probably document Reuben being there but not TheWho, and again he demands "proof" that he was ever in Chicago at all:
Well, first off, you posted under the usename TheWho that you made the trip to Chicago to meet with people to discuss the industry and program safety while you posting your "matrix." Now you're denying it? Lying then or lying now? I think now.
Show the links and the time frames. Whether I say it is true or not true makes no difference. Was I posting from chicago as "thewho" when this Reuben guy was. If you have convinced yourself then you must be able to produce this time frame via links to posts. Why not ask Psy for a favor... he can check the ip address from the posts I made during the time you said I was in Chicago. If it shows those posts were coming from Chicago then that is fairly solid evidence. If I was posting from Massachusetts then I was there. This would be a good start for you, unless you want to avoid knowing for sure and stay with your fantasy
You also admitted, using the username TheWho to being "arrested several times in Boston." Plus another arrest in Michigan. Lying then, or lying now? I think now.
Show the link.
Reuben was also arrested several times in Boston in the 1970's and again in Michigan for destruction of property in the same time frame. Under the username TheWho you admitted to destroying a college campus in Michigan and being arrested for that. Rueben was arrested for the same thing in the same place. Coincidence? I don't think so.
Show the link that convinced you of this so we can all see it.
As for the ficticious story you created here about your "daughter," well, that doesn't mean much.
So your story doesnt add up and you say it doesnt mean much? Ha,Ha,Ha how do you decifer what is true and what isnt?
You lie about all sorts of things and that's just one more. You don't like to admit that SUWS and ASR failed your son, Mike, and that he's dead now because he never got the help he needed.
If I lie about all sorts of things than you need to show us all the links where you base your conclusions on. Since you say I lie you can pretty much say what ever you want and blame the discrepancies on my lieing.
Why don't you just spell out your extensive arrest record for the readers so they at least can see you're being honest about it. You may gain some credibility if you start by telling the truth. I know you don't own a firearm. No need to explain that. You're disallowed from owning one due to your criminal history. An NCICS check of your name proved this as well.
You claim to have all the information on me, why dont you spell it out lol .... or did you make that up too.
So far you have provided the readers with no evidence at all. Line up the time lines of when this guy Reuben was in chicago and when you think I was. Toss up the links which helped you make this connection or is this just a story line for you?
So I post one of TheWho's posts with a link to the original showing TheWho bragging about his tript to Chicago with a group of other people interested in the TTI and its safety. "Show the link!" he demands, not realizing it would be a link to his very own post:
TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago:
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first. We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently. Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.
TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/posting.php?mode=quote&f=9&p=245433)
TheWho admitting to his arrest record, but leaving out quite a bit of tha nasty stuff:
Hi Anne, seems I am on the hot seat:
Actually I do have a record. The last time I was arrested was in college. I was arrested several times in Boston (for various protests and acts of civil disobedience) and once in Ann Arbor Michigan (when a protest got out of hand). I was underage, skipped school and scored a plane ticket from my sisters boyfriend when my parents were in Europe and went to the campus of Univ of Michigan in Ann arbor, myself and several people were arrested for digging these huge craters on the Diag which were meant to simulate bomb holes left by the US in Vietnam, by far my best arrest (like 40 or 50 of us were arrested). Thought I was going to be sent away when my folks cut their trip short to come home to get me, anyway, that one is probably sealed because I was underaged. I will never forget they separated me from the others for some reason and I ended up in a cell with 5 other people. This one hue black guy who was obviously drunk out of his mind kept falling asleep and then falling off his bench...he would then wake up and look right at me and say something like : if you push me again white boy I will "F" you up so much even your mother will not love you..... I was so scared that after a couple of times I waited for him to fall asleep and then I took my shoes off and wedged them underneath him so he wouldnt roll off the bench again.
TheWho admitting to his arrest record for "multiple arrests" (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23338&p=284895&hilit=+arrest#p284895)
Lying THEN, or lying NOW? Does it really matter? It's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that TheWho has been caught lying again, right here in this thread. Lying about his extensive arrest record and lying about his trip to Chicago with Lon Woodbury and Martha Kolbe, along with others.
It is so easy to catch you lying because you lie so much you can't remember your lies. And because you sold your username, you can't edit what you wrote. How very sad to prove you are a liar once again. I already proved you just lied about your extensive arrest record and meeting in Chicago. Two things you claimed I could never prove. But there it is, in cold print, written by YOU.
Busted lying in his own words yet again, both about his criminal history and his trip to Chicago which he was fully denying just moments before.
Now he also admits to his criminal record, after having his hand forced, and also to his trip to Chicago he was vehemently denying before:
TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago:
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first. We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently. Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.
TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/posting.php?mode=quote&f=9&p=245433)
So the above post was written February 8, 2007 and indicates that a meeting was held a month prior putting it at around January 8, 2007. Does this match up with the time frame you have of Reuben meeting with Woodbury and the rest of these people? I admit this would be interesting if it were the same time.
TheWho admitting to his arrest record, but leaving out quite a bit of tha nasty stuff:
Hi Anne, seems I am on the hot seat:
Actually I do have a record. The last time I was arrested was in college. I was arrested several times in Boston (for various protests and acts of civil disobedience) and once in Ann Arbor Michigan (when a protest got out of hand). I was underage, skipped school and scored a plane ticket from my sisters boyfriend when my parents were in Europe and went to the campus of Univ of Michigan in Ann arbor, myself and several people were arrested for digging these huge craters on the Diag which were meant to simulate bomb holes left by the US in Vietnam, by far my best arrest (like 40 or 50 of us were arrested). Thought I was going to be sent away when my folks cut their trip short to come home to get me, anyway, that one is probably sealed because I was underaged. I will never forget they separated me from the others for some reason and I ended up in a cell with 5 other people. This one hue black guy who was obviously drunk out of his mind kept falling asleep and then falling off his bench...he would then wake up and look right at me and say something like : if you push me again white boy I will "F" you up so much even your mother will not love you..... I was so scared that after a couple of times I waited for him to fall asleep and then I took my shoes off and wedged them underneath him so he wouldnt roll off the bench again.
TheWho admitting to his arrest record for "multiple arrests" (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23338&p=284895&hilit=+arrest#p284895)
Lying THEN, or lying NOW? Does it really matter? It's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that TheWho has been caught lying again, right here in this thread. Lying about his extensive arrest record and lying about his trip to Chicago with Lon Woodbury and Martha Kolbe, along with others.
It is so easy to catch you lying because you lie so much you can't remember your lies. And because you sold your username, you can't edit what you wrote. How very sad to prove you are a liar once again. I already proved you just lied about your extensive arrest record and meeting in Chicago. Two things you claimed I could never prove. But there it is, in cold print, [bu]written by YOU.[/u]
What I see is consitency. The posts show that the last time I was arrested was in college. Where is the lie?
Where's the lie? You have been denying you have a criminal record all day! But you were caught again, lying as usual.
And he says that the post was from January, 2007 and the meeting was a month before, so there must be evidence to support Lon and leslie being there, right? RIGHT?? Well, yes. They both attended and IECA "Professional Development Series" set of lectures in...wait for it... November and December, 2006, exactly a month before Whooter's post admitting to meeting in Chicago "a month ago." Pinched lying again.
Now he's confronted with a PM he sent me (I was using the login "Concerned Parent" and he was using "TheWho"):
you both took a trip to Chicago to meet with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen just before STICC was launched.
STICC was launched in April of 2004 and thewhos post that you provided shows he was in chicago for the meeting in January of 2007.
If you had evidence of any kind to show that Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and Reuben were in Chicago in January 2007, when thewho was there, then I think we would all believe you. What was the evidence or post that convinced you that this meeting took place? I find it curious that you posted that but never provided the link.
Oh, but I did provide the link showing you were in Chicago in 2007 and that you lied and said you never went there. Busted for that lie. You were denying that just a few minutes ago, but now you changed your tune. I also have a little PM exchange between you and me (using the login "Concerned Parent"). I wrote you a PM asking for info on ASR and you wrote me back to contact you privately at your email address:
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent
Personally I think ASR is a good program. It worked for our family. My kid was there
when Dave Marcus wrote his book based on the kids in the program and they got back on
track and matured. I have been to the campus many times and think if it's a good fit
for your son that you shouldn't worry about it. Don't trust what you read on this site
because the members here are all anti-program and have an agenda to discredit all
programs. If you want to contact me outside fornits I can help you get in contact with
someone who can help you make the right decision. You can email me at
[email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) to explore a placement option with your network. I did not pursue the exchange thereafter. I just saved it for times like this.
I think the readers can see that you are squirming and trying to get out of your lies, but the problem is that they are all archived as written by you. I just reposted them with links to prove you were lying. See, Whooter, you've weaved such a tangled web of lies here that you have forgotten when and to whom you've told all these lies, so you get caught lying again and again denying what was clearly and provably posted by you before. Very sloppy on your part. Ready to get honest yet?
So it has been proven that TheWho was lying through his teeth about his trip to Chicago and his criminal record. It has also been proven that there was an IECA conference at the same time and Woodbury and Golberg were at that conference. Also proven is that TheWho solicited parents using the email address [email protected]. Why is that important? It's the address for John Reuben and listed on the whois for the STICC website. Check it out: John Reuben IS TheWho (http://http://whois.domaintools.com/savingteens.org). Proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.
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Sorry you are so frustrated, thats alot to read, but thewho stated over and over (as you posted yourself) that he went to Chicago in January 2007, but you were unable to show he was there the same time as Woodbury (who you said was there in 2006). So you havent been able to place him in Chicago even within the same year. Your timeline doesnt work. If you had a link that showed the date of the conference and compare it to thewhos post that would help.
Thewho admits in his own post that he has an arrest record , but that was in College.
You havent been able to prove anything outside of what he already admitted himself.
As far as the email address goes how do you know this was thewho? I could have been anyone I dont see the connection.
Bruce, I am glad to see you have a new cause, but you have embarrassed yourself even worse this time. I see you stayed away from any direct links to prove your case like:
Here is the date thewho said he was in Chicago (link to source)
Here is the Date of the Conference (link to source)
Here is the date Woodbury was in Chicago (link to source)
Now something like the above would be a smoking gun. But you just dont have any of that stuff, just "he said"/ "she said" type of stuff which is weak.
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Well, you didn't say over and over you went to Chicago. In fact, you denied it vehemently and demands "proof" that you did. You demanded I link a Chicago IP address to TheWho's postings from that period, but why should I? You forgot you lied about this and had already posted in January 2007 that you went to Chicago the month before. Why did you lie about your trip to Chicago?
You also were denying you had an extensive arrest record, apparently forgetting you had already admitted to being "arrested several times in Boston" and once in Michigan. Why did you lie about your criminal past?
You also say you are just a parent with no ties to the TTI industry, but yet you attended a meeting in Chicago with a group of other TTI players in order to try to make statistical proof that programs are safe and effective and bragged about your meeting here while logged in with the username "TheWho." Later you denied you are part of the industry and that you went to Chicago at all which are both proven lies. Why did you lie about your role in the TTI?
The readers here deserve an explanation of the above proven lies. Why won't you explain the lies?
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OK, link to Chicago post.
TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/posting.php?mode=quote&f=9&p=245433)
Here, just a few hours ago, you were denying it and demanding proof:
If you have convinced yourself then you must be able to produce this time frame via links to posts. Why not ask Psy for a favor... he can check the ip address from the posts I made during the time you said I was in Chicago. If it shows those posts were coming from Chicago then that is fairly solid evidence.
Well, how about your OWN WORDS as proof? You admitted it before, and denied it after. Very shabby.
Toss up the links which helped you make this connection or is this just a story line for you?
Nope, not a story. YOUR story. Told in your words in the above link.
Was there a conference a month before you posted you were in Chicago a month prior? You betcha!
Sierra Tucson, Tucson, AZ, 800-842-4487, and Rosecrance Health Network, Rockford, IL, 815-391-1000, announced they would co-sponsor the 2006 Chicago Professional Development Series on November 17 and December 15, Hard k Hotel in Chicago. The speakers, Kaveh Zamanian, PhD, and Wendy Lader, MEd, PhD, will discuss issues regarding addictions and mental health.
Link to conference bulletin (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/article_5490.shtml)
What everyone really wants to know is WHY DID YOU LIE ABOUT YOUR TRIP TO CHICAGO, BEING UNINVOLVED IN THE TTI AND YOUR CRIMINAL RECORD?
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Well, you didn't say over and over you went to Chicago. In fact, you denied it vehemently and demands "proof" that you did. You demanded I link a Chicago IP address to TheWho's postings from that period, but why should I? You forgot you lied about this and had already posted in January 2007 that you went to Chicago the month before. Why did you lie about your trip to Chicago?
{link to source}
You also were denying you had an extensive arrest record, apparently forgetting you had already admitted to being "arrested several times in Boston" and once in Michigan. Why did you lie about your criminal past?
{link to source}
You also deny you are John Reuben, but you PMed me with your email address when you thought I was interested in sending my kid to ASR. And that email address is one and the same with the Administrator email address for savingteens.org. So you were caught in yet another lie. Why did you lie about your identity?
You may have emailed John Reuben but where is your proof that you emailed me? See what I am saying?
You also say you are just a parent with no ties to the TTI industry, but yet you attended a meeting in Chicago with a group of other TTI players in order to try to make statistical proof that programs are safe and effective and bragged about your meeting here while logged in with the username "TheWho." Later you denied you are part of the industry and that you went to Chicago at all which are both proven lies. Why did you lie about your role in the TTI?
{link to source} What players? where was the meeting and when was it held?
The readers here deserve an explanation of the above proven lies. Why won't you explain the lies?
I agree but first you need to prove your posts.
You need proof, Bruce, you havent proved anything yet. We need a smoking gun and all we see are "your" words. Many who might have believed thewho was this Reuben guy are now starting to doubt it. You havent shown anything yet. Start filling in the Citations and see how you make out. Then we can go from there.
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:beat: :rofl:
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent
Personally I think ASR is a good program. It worked for our family. My kid was there
when Dave Marcus wrote his book based on the kids in the program and they got back on
track and matured. I have been to the campus many times and think if it's a good fit
for your son that you shouldn't worry about it. Don't trust what you read on this site
because the members here are all anti-program and have an agenda to discredit all
programs. If you want to contact me outside fornits I can help you get in contact with
someone who can help you make the right decision. You can email me at
[email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) was offered by Whooter as a contact to talk outside of Fornits. How could John Reuben login as TheWho and send PMs to me as TheWho? Did Reuben break into TheWho's Fornits account? Or is it more sensible that John Reuben and TheWho are the same person? Obviously they are.
Then Whooter says this:
As far as the email goes that could have been anyone. How do you know [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected])
Ooops! Whooter caught in three separate gigantic lies in just this one thread from just one day. Why would anyone believe a word he says when he literally lies about EVERYTHING??
The game is over. TheWho has been thoroughly discredited just by his own admitted lies, and that's just the tip of the iceburg of whet he has lied about in his postings. These lies were easy to expose. Just quote the TheWho denying his statements and then quote him admitting to them. Only one can be true, so he it's undeniable he lied.
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If you have convinced yourself then you must be able to produce this time frame via links to posts. Why not ask Psy for a favor... he can check the ip address from the posts I made during the time you said I was in Chicago. If it shows those posts were coming from Chicago then that is fairly solid evidence.
I think it would be a smoking Gun if you could place me in Chicago with these other people.. Woodbury etal. But like I said I wasn’t in Chicago at that time, My own post says I was there in January 2007. Where is this lie you are talking about?
Link to my original post (http://http://fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=245433&sid=93d91ba7f310115936e21ee33fa60e19#p245433)
Sierra Tucson, Tucson, AZ, 800-842-4487, and Rosecrance Health Network, Rockford, IL, 815-391-1000, announced they would co-sponsor the 2006 Chicago Professional Development Series on November 17 and December 15, Hard k Hotel in Chicago. The speakers, Kaveh Zamanian, PhD, and Wendy Lader, MEd, PhD, will discuss issues regarding addictions and mental health.
Thank you. As you can see from my above post I was there in 2007 (January). Maybe you could try to get psy to check the time frame and see if my ip address shows I was posting from Chicago when they were having the meeting in November and December. Also where does it say Woodbury and the other person you mentioned was there also. You left that out.
Post that link .. or did you make that up too.
So far my posts line up with what I have been saying all along. You failed to show I was anywhere near this conference, Bruce. I like the try though....
Oh, by the way did you give up on proving the email that you wrote? And where is the proof of the FBI background check? I thought that was a classic Bruce touch. No firearms Ha,Ha,Ha
Okay start over and provide links next time.
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Well, you didn't say over and over you went to Chicago. In fact, you denied it vehemently and demands "proof" that you did. You demanded I link a Chicago IP address to TheWho's postings from that period, but why should I? You forgot you lied about this and had already posted in January 2007 that you went to Chicago the month before. Why did you lie about your trip to Chicago?
{link to source} TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/posting.php?mode=quote&f=9&p=245433)
You also were denying you had an extensive arrest record, apparently forgetting you had already admitted to being "arrested several times in Boston" and once in Michigan. Why did you lie about your criminal past?
{link to source}TheWho admitting to his arrest record for "multiple arrests" (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23338&p=284895&hilit=+arrest#p284895)
You also deny you are John Reuben, but you PMed me with your email address when you thought I was interested in sending my kid to ASR. And that email address is one and the same with the Administrator email address for savingteens.org. So you were caught in yet another lie. Why did you lie about your identity?
You may have emailed John Reuben but where is your proof that you emailed me? See what I am saying?
No, you PMed me with the email address later to be proven to be John Reuben's
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent
Personally I think ASR is a good program. It worked for our family. My kid was there
when Dave Marcus wrote his book based on the kids in the program and they got back on
track and matured. I have been to the campus many times and think if it's a good fit
for your son that you shouldn't worry about it. Don't trust what you read on this site
because the members here are all anti-program and have an agenda to discredit all
programs. If you want to contact me outside fornits I can help you get in contact with
someone who can help you make the right decision. You can email me at
[email protected]. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you.
You also say you are just a parent with no ties to the TTI industry, but yet you attended a meeting in Chicago with a group of other TTI players in order to try to make statistical proof that programs are safe and effective and bragged about your meeting here while logged in with the username "TheWho." Later you denied you are part of the industry and that you went to Chicago at all which are both proven lies. Why did you lie about your role in the TTI?
{link to source} What players? where was the meeting and when was it held? Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first.
You said it was a meeting in December 2006 at the Hyatt in Chicago of your statistical group to asses the safety of TBS's.You're the one who said it. Were you lying then or now?
The readers here deserve an explanation of the above proven lies. Why won't you explain the lies?
I agree but first you need to prove your posts.
You need proof, Bruce, you havent proved anything yet. We need a smoking gun and all we see are "your" words. Many who might have believed thewho was this Reuben guy are now starting to doubt it. You havent shown anything yet. Start filling in the Citations and see how you make out. Then we can go from there.
And, I'm obviously not "Bruce." So you can stop trying to pin this on him. You're the liar here. You need to account for your lies.
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Come -on Bruce, no one is going to buy it...Couldnt I just as easily throw up an email an place Anyname in the slot where the name John Reuben was and post it here just like below?
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: Anyname
To: Concerned Parent
Personally I think ASR is a good program. It worked for our family. My kid was there
when Dave Marcus wrote his book based on the kids in the program and they got back on
track and matured. I have been to the campus many times and think if it's a good fit
for your son that you shouldn't worry about it. Don't trust what you read on this site
because the members here are all anti-program and have an agenda to discredit all
programs. If you want to contact me outside fornits I can help you get in contact with
someone who can help you make the right decision. You can email me at
[email protected]. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you.
So you really think that John Reuben signs his emails as Thewho coming out of his business?
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Dude, come on. You're pinched.
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No, I don't. You PMed me using your TheWho account from fornits to my Concerned Parent account on fornits. Then you offered your email address to contact you privately to place my son at ASR. But your email address is John Reuben's email address, too. That's the facts. I see you tried to change my quotes though, as you always do. Are you going to blame it on the "mods" now, too? Lols.
People should know that you're a convicted criminal with an agenda to fill beds at programs. You have proved this top be true in your own words. It's too late to try and take it all back now. People shouldn't take advice from convicted criminals like you who don't disclose their ties to the TTI industry.
See now that you cant prove anything you just get pissed off. The bottom line is that you really want me to be this guy and you found some parallels but no smoking gun. I wasnt in chicago during the time of these meetings and you couldnt even place those other people there.
Look everyone that has a login name also has an email address. I give psy permission to check my email address and compare it to the one you posted. Its not mine. Like you said it belongs to this Reuben guy. Plus John Reuben wouldnt be signing his emails as "TheWho" from his place of business to prospective parents who inquire. Think about it. Someone has been pulling your leg.
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Sorry, but your denial fails. The preponderance of the evidence shows you lied about a lot of things. You would definitely be found guilty in civil court and maybe even criminal court (where you have a lot of experience).
Let's play a little game, shall we? Remember, I already know and can prove the answers, so answer truthfully.
True or False? TheWho has an extensive criminal record including many arrests in Boston and one in Ann Arbor Michigan.
Let's just go one at a time so we don't confuse the readers. Answer, please.
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I see you tried to change my quotes though, as you always do. Are you going to blame it on the "mods" now, too? Lols.
I changed "Thewho" to "anyname" to show you that any name could have been inserted into that box (go back and read it, you will see what I mean). You havent be able to prove that I sent that email because I didnt. Ask Psy to see if that is my email address here on fornits. I think you will quickly see it wasnt me.
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Care to answer the question about your extensive criminal history? I see you skipped that.
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Sorry, but your denial fails. The preponderance of the evidence shows you lied about a lot of things. You would definitely be found guilty in civil court and maybe even criminal court (where you have a lot of experience).
Let's play a little game, shall we? Remember, I already know and can prove the answers, so answer truthfully.
True or False? TheWho has an extensive criminal record including many arrests in Boston and one in Ann Arbor Michigan.
Let's just go one at a time so we don't confuse the readers. Answer, please.
True or False? TheWho has an extensive criminal record including many arrests in Boston and one in Ann Arbor Michigan.
OK, I gotta go and get some things done. But I'll check back tomorrow for your answer to this simple true or false question above. You should be glad to have someone like me to help to teach you to be accountable for your own life and for being honest. Without me, you would have let a few readers believe you were a legitimate source.
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Again, it's not an email, it's a PM from you to me. In the PM, you offered the email address to contact you outside of fornits. I guess you're not a good reader. And I'm sure you have many email addresses, but you should have given me one that wasn't linked to STICC's admin account and John Reuben if you didn't want people to know you are him.
Someone was pulling your leg.
Care to answer the question about your extensive criminal history? I see you skipped that.
It is well documented here about my protesting in Boston and in Michigan. All in College and younger. I was a little wild as a kid.
Go ahead and have Psy list all of your email addresses you have used here. It's your job to do that, not mine. If you're trying to prove something, go ahead and prove it. But it won't change history. You did provide that email address to me over two years ago and you can't try to deny it now.
No ,I only use one email address here on fornits, I dont need to prove anything to myself or anyone else actually.
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Bruce, I checked out your “Concerned Parent” post and you were pretending to be a parent from Thayer Learning Center. Why would you be trolling that thread and then pretending to be interested in ASR? If you are out to discredit people it is tough to do when you are being deceitful yourself. When you declined to have your posts strung together I figured it was because you had many log-in names and aliases and this is why you ran from it.
Now you doctored up a PM in a last ditch effort and it back fired on you. Like I said, if you still feel my email address is the one you posted have psy check it out I give my permission. You seem to have reached a new low here on fornits, I hope things are okay at home.
That FBI background check was classic, though, lol. I dont know how you expected to pull that off and have people believe that, but it is an attention getter.
Here is the link to your “Concerned Parent” post:
Concerned Parent Post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=171187&sid=381ebc13f576ad029437d93e2e9bdfab&sid=381ebc13f576ad029437d93e2e9bdfab#p171187)
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Doctoring posts again I see, huh? :eek:
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Yes, that post is mine. But I am not RobertBruce, so there goes your theory. It's great that you want to use that guy as a foil, but you're being dishonest. I've told you several times what the login was that I used and that you used and I posted the PM you sent me. I understand you want to change the subject, but I won't allow it.
Well, you say your not Bruce and I say I am not Reuben. Does that help Robert?
Now, you have admitted a long criminal history featuring many arrests. We've established that you are in fact a criminal. A convicted criminal.
No I dont agree with that. just like I dont agree that a kid who smokes pot is a druggie. You may call it what you like.
You also admitted to doctoring a post of mine earlier in the thread, so we know you alter posts.
Sorry, Bruce, but you doctored the post when you added the name "thewho" to it.
You also denied you went to Chicago for a focus group of TTI people, but later admitted you did, after your posts showing you already said it were exposed. You were lying and forced to admit the truth.
Well you are free to provide the links if you like. Like I said it is well documented that I was in Chicago. If you feel I was not telling the truth then provide the proof.
You now need to admit that you sent out the email address for John Reuben. The truth hurts and you are running from it, but I think we all agree you will have to fess up sooner or later.
Sorry, Bruce, your fabricated email just doesnt cut it. I already showed you how easy it is to add any name you like to the "From:" field.
And I guess you were just blowing smoke about having Psy show us your email addresses you used here at Fornits. Of course you won't ask him to do it because you know he will show everyone your [email protected] address. Funny. And transparent. And predictable.
Not at all, just point him towards this post... I "thewho" do allow Psy to show my email address (I only have one) here on this thread.
Sorry Bruce but you are grasping at straws, but I will play along for awhile longer. I have nothing to hide.
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Yes, that post is mine.
just curious.if you really are 'concerned parent' how come you didn't sign in as that? u couldv picked any parent user who hasn't ben active for a long time and made that whole PM up.
which means u just looked up STICCs registry info first. made PM up second
if ur cataloging The Who's lies, lets start with ur own.
lets see u sign in as concerned parent.
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Lots of lies here in this thread. Whooter's on a roll.
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Is this why the idiot John D. Reuben is mucking everything up on the forums? You must be using Reuben's scrotum as a trampoline, because he is obviously frustrated and pissed.
GIVE IT UP, JOHN. YOU LIED TO YOURSELF FOR AGES, YOU MADE HUGE MISTAKES AND THE VULTURES HAVE COME HOME TO ROOST. YOU DEFEND THE INDUSTRY TO AVOID YOUR GUILT.
SUCK IT, NUTBOY. ONLY A PSYCHO WOULD DO WHAT YOU ARE DOING.
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http://www.bostonpedorthic.com/satisfied_running.asp (http://www.bostonpedorthic.com/satisfied_running.asp)
"I'm a new runner and was experiencing ankle and arch pain prior to using Boston Pedorthic orthotics. I'm pleased to report that I love my orthotics. I am pain-free and breaking my timing record. I plan to run lots of marathons and to use running to benefit "Saving Teens in Crisis Collaborative."
John David Reuben
Sudbury, MA
Running to fund torture and death for other families like he brought to his own.
Break a leg you flatfooted bitch. Nice plug, you can't resist can you? Orthopedic pages, your own kid's obituary...
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Does the Dep't of Justice know what they are funding?
http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/p ... 5267.shtml (http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/article_5267.shtml)
STICC UPDATES
(February 27, 2006) John David Reuben, Founder, Saving Teens In Crisis Collaborative (STICC), 877-249-1336, announced that to-date it has received notice of a $100,000 grant from the US Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention and another $100,000 in individual contributions. He added that the company is now prepared to begin its selection process for funding kids who need assistance in attending a private program or school.
File complaints.
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Damn. Get another hobby. Back to JDR business.
Does the Dep't of Justice know what they are funding?
http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/p ... 5267.shtml (http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/article_5267.shtml)
STICC UPDATES
(February 27, 2006) John David Reuben, Founder, Saving Teens In Crisis Collaborative (STICC), 877-249-1336, announced that to-date it has received notice of a $100,000 grant from the US Department of Justice, Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention and another $100,000 in individual contributions. He added that the company is now prepared to begin its selection process for funding kids who need assistance in attending a private program or school.
File complaints.
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How did I know Whooter would refuse to post his many email addresses? Lols. He'll take accountablity some day I guess. If he has nothing to hide, why is he hiding it so carefully?
A recap of some facts revealed by this thread:
1. Whooter is not "just a parent," as he is involved in meetings with TTI players and trying to prove the "safety" of TBSs.
2. Whooter made a trip to Chicago to meet with TTI players for his "statistical group" but he lied about it here saying he never went to Chicago. Sadly, he was quoted from almost three years ago admitting to both items.
3. Whooter and John D. Reuben have the same email address.
4. Whooter has an extensive criminal history which disallows him from owning a firearm, which means he's either a convicted felon or spousal abuser (his son Max did claim in groups at HLA that Whooter abused his wife and Max thought Whooter was complicit in her death).
5. Whooter claims to use different emails here on Fornits, but refuses to post them (obviously because of one in particular).
6. Both Whooter and Reuben were arrested sevral times in Boston, MA and once in Ann Arbor, MI. Coincidence? Hardly.
For all of the reasons above and the fact that Whooter lied through his teeth about all of these things he was subsequently caught for, people shouldn't listen to a word of what this common criminal has to say. He just lies too much to believe anything at all. Would you really want someone who has a criminal history like this to be giving advice to your family? Placing your kid? His business is all a big scam to get kickbacks from Aspen Education, currently known to be one of the most abusive family of programs in business today with two major closings last month for abuse, neglect and killing a child.
Bruce, I have addressed each of these issues and you failed to make your case on each. Anyone is free to go back and read them. In particular I have consented openly on this thread to having Psy verify that the Reuben email is not my own. You have not believed my answers to each issue so far why would you believe any email address I post here. Check with psy if you like I give my permission. If you still think I am this guy Reuben then nothing will convince you otherwise, anyway. No harm, no foul, have fun with it, seems to be a good busy thread for you.
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Yes, that post is mine.
just curious.if you really are 'concerned parent' how come you didn't sign in as that? u couldv picked any parent user who hasn't ben active for a long time and made that whole PM up.
which means u just looked up STICCs registry info first. made PM up second
if ur cataloging The Who's lies, lets start with ur own.
lets see u sign in as concerned parent.
Valid point.
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How did I know Whooter would refuse to post his many email addresses? Lols. He'll take accountablity some day I guess. If he has nothing to hide, why is he hiding it so carefully?
A recap of some facts revealed by this thread:
1. Whooter is not "just a parent," as he is involved in meetings with TTI players and trying to prove the "safety" of TBSs.
2. Whooter made a trip to Chicago to meet with TTI players for his "statistical group" but he lied about it here saying he never went to Chicago. Sadly, he was quoted from almost three years ago admitting to both items.
3. Whooter and John D. Reuben have the same email address.
4. Whooter has an extensive criminal history which disallows him from owning a firearm, which means he's either a convicted felon or spousal abuser (his son Max did claim in groups at HLA that Whooter abused his wife and Max thought Whooter was complicit in her death).
5. Whooter claims to use different emails here on Fornits, but refuses to post them (obviously because of one in particular).
6. Both Whooter and Reuben were arrested sevral times in Boston, MA and once in Ann Arbor, MI. Coincidence? Hardly.
For all of the reasons above and the fact that Whooter lied through his teeth about all of these things he was subsequently caught for, people shouldn't listen to a word of what this common criminal has to say. He just lies too much to believe anything at all. Would you really want someone who has a criminal history like this to be giving advice to your family? Placing your kid? His business is all a big scam to get kickbacks from Aspen Education, currently known to be one of the most abusive family of programs in business today with two major closings last month for abuse, neglect and killing a child.
Bruce, I have addressed each of these issues and you failed to make your case on each. Anyone is free to go back and read them. In particular I have consented openly on this thread to having Psy verify that the Reuben email is not my own. You have not believed my answers to each issue so far why would you believe any email address I post here. Check with psy if you like I give my permission. If you still think I am this guy Reuben then nothing will convince you otherwise, anyway. No harm, no foul, have fun with it, seems to be a good busy thread for you.
I fail to see why there is any controversy at all. TheWho is a notorious asshole not to be taken seriously, he's a fucking ass clown. John D. Reuben is a monster based on his own merits. The conversation about Reuben's shitty parenting, police record and dubious dealings should continue. If it turns out Reuben is the who, he has to be the most fucked up human ever to suck air. John D. Reuben is an asshole regardless of any connections to the worthless troll.
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How did I know Whooter would refuse to post his many email addresses? Lols. He'll take accountablity some day I guess. If he has nothing to hide, why is he hiding it so carefully?
A recap of some facts revealed by this thread:
1. Whooter is not "just a parent," as he is involved in meetings with TTI players and trying to prove the "safety" of TBSs.
2. Whooter made a trip to Chicago to meet with TTI players for his "statistical group" but he lied about it here saying he never went to Chicago. Sadly, he was quoted from almost three years ago admitting to both items.
3. Whooter and John D. Reuben have the same email address.
4. Whooter has an extensive criminal history which disallows him from owning a firearm, which means he's either a convicted felon or spousal abuser (his son Max did claim in groups at HLA that Whooter abused his wife and Max thought Whooter was complicit in her death).
5. Whooter claims to use different emails here on Fornits, but refuses to post them (obviously because of one in particular).
6. Both Whooter and Reuben were arrested sevral times in Boston, MA and once in Ann Arbor, MI. Coincidence? Hardly.
For all of the reasons above and the fact that Whooter lied through his teeth about all of these things he was subsequently caught for, people shouldn't listen to a word of what this common criminal has to say. He just lies too much to believe anything at all. Would you really want someone who has a criminal history like this to be giving advice to your family? Placing your kid? His business is all a big scam to get kickbacks from Aspen Education, currently known to be one of the most abusive family of programs in business today with two major closings last month for abuse, neglect and killing a child.
I think it's pretty clear that TheWho misrepresented himself here as "just a regular parent with no ties to the industry," but his admission that he was part of a group meeting in Chicago to discuss industry safety and the fact that he even lied about that have me totlly convinced he's 100% disingenuous at best. The OP is also correct that he lied about his criminal record until proven that he already admitted to it ( I guess he forgot he posted that too like the trip to CHI). So just going by what has been proven beyond any doubt, he's a total liar. I can't believe anything he says now just because of those two huge lies. I'm on the fence about a few others, but I have to say it doesn't look good for TheWho just because he was caught in these other lies that he denied over and over only to be caught lying in the end.
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How did I know Whooter would refuse to post his many email addresses? Lols. He'll take accountablity some day I guess. If he has nothing to hide, why is he hiding it so carefully?
A recap of some facts revealed by this thread:
1. Whooter is not "just a parent," as he is involved in meetings with TTI players and trying to prove the "safety" of TBSs.
2. Whooter made a trip to Chicago to meet with TTI players for his "statistical group" but he lied about it here saying he never went to Chicago. Sadly, he was :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :cheers: quoted from almost three years ago admitting to both items.
3. Whooter and John D. Reuben have the same email address.
4. Whooter has an extensive criminal history which disallows him from owning a firearm, which means he's either a convicted felon or spousal abuser (his son Max did claim in groups at HLA that Whooter abused his wife and Max thought Whooter was complicit in her death).
5. Whooter claims to use different emails here on Fornits, but refuses to post them (obviously because of one in particular).
6. Both Whooter and Reuben were arrested sevral times in Boston, MA and once in Ann Arbor, MI. Coincidence? Hardly.
For all of the reasons above and the fact that Whooter lied through his teeth about all of these things he was subsequently caught for, people shouldn't listen to a word of what this common criminal has to say. He just lies too much to believe anything at all. Would you really want someone who has a criminal history like this to be giving advice to your family? Placing your kid? His business is all a big scam to get kickbacks from Aspen Education, currently known to be one of the most abusive family of programs in business today with two major closings last month for abuse, neglect and killing a child.
I think it's pretty clear that TheWho misrepresented himself here as "just a regular parent with no ties to the industry," but his admission that he was part of a group meeting in Chicago to discuss industry safety and the fact that he even lied about that have me totlly convinced he's 100% disingenuous at best. The OP is also correct that he lied about his criminal record until proven that he already admitted to it ( I guess he forgot he posted that too like the trip to CHI). So just going by what has been proven beyond any doubt, he's a total liar. I can't believe anything he says now just because of those two huge lies. I'm on the fence about a few others, but I have to say it doesn't look good for TheWho just because he was caught in these other lies that he denied over and over only to be caught lying in the end.
:cheers: :cheers: :rocker: :rocker:
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*Bump*
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:twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger: :twofinger:
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Great thread. Thanks for the information about Reuben.
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How did I know Whooter would refuse to post his many email addresses? Lols. He'll take accountablity some day I guess. If he has nothing to hide, why is he hiding it so carefully?
A recap of some facts revealed by this thread:
1. Whooter is not "just a parent," as he is involved in meetings with TTI players and trying to prove the "safety" of TBSs.
2. Whooter made a trip to Chicago to meet with TTI players for his "statistical group" but he lied about it here saying he never went to Chicago. Sadly, he was quoted from almost three years ago admitting to both items.
3. Whooter and John D. Reuben have the same email address.
4. Whooter has an extensive criminal history which disallows him from owning a firearm, which means he's either a convicted felon or spousal abuser (his son Max did claim in groups at HLA that Whooter abused his wife and Max thought Whooter was complicit in her death).
5. Whooter claims to use different emails here on Fornits, but refuses to post them (obviously because of one in particular).
6. Both Whooter and Reuben were arrested sevral times in Boston, MA and once in Ann Arbor, MI. Coincidence? Hardly.
For all of the reasons above and the fact that Whooter lied through his teeth about all of these things he was subsequently caught for, people shouldn't listen to a word of what this common criminal has to say. He just lies too much to believe anything at all. Would you really want someone who has a criminal history like this to be giving advice to your family? Placing your kid? His business is all a big scam to get kickbacks from Aspen Education, currently known to be one of the most abusive family of programs in business today with two major closings last month for abuse, neglect and killing a child.
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Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent
Personally I think ASR is a good program. It worked for our family. My kid was there
when Dave Marcus wrote his book based on the kids in the program and they got back on
track and matured. I have been to the campus many times and think if it's a good fit
for your son that you shouldn't worry about it. Don't trust what you read on this site
because the members here are all anti-program and have an agenda to discredit all
programs. If you want to contact me outside fornits I can help you get in contact with
someone who can help you make the right decision. You can email me at
[email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) to explore a placement option with your network. I did not pursue the exchange thereafter. I just saved it for times like this.
That's some conclusive proof that Whooter / the who is John David Reuben
Guest, will you sign a sworn deposition for HEAL or ISAC about that PM being legitimate. PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE, PLEASE?
I'm sure they'll include it in their Aspen Education Group section—given that AEG donates to STICC (saving teens in crisis) that Reuben feeds it bodies, and has a “fiduciary” role on its board—his antics here bear on the abusive cult.
HEAL or ISAC could even devote a section specifically to John D Reuben--his involvement in abduction, and torture and his actions here are significant enough for their own segment.
However do you look yourself in the mirror, John, being that you killed your son. How could you kill your own son? I guess your son "failed" the program, in your mind, huh?
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Maybe i'm slow. I'm scratching my head still trying to figure out what the smoking gun here. Can anybody succinctly explain to the stupid ones here such as myself what exactly connects TheWho to this Reuben guy.
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If the above e-mail address was sent to the person using the name Concerned Parent, by Whooter, as is claimed, and that e-mail address was that of John Reuben, as is also claimed, then Whooter and John D. Reuben had the same e-mail address. When these claims were put forward, Whooter immediately pretended that the poster had claimed that Whooter was Concerned Parent, a bit of flim-flammery in line with Whooter's other psychotic antics. If the claims are true, then you're left to decide if you believe that Whooter and John D. Reuben had the same e-mail address but are two totally different people.
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If the above e-mail address was sent to the person using the name Concerned Parent, by Whooter, as is claimed, and that e-mail address was that of John Reuben, as is also claimed, then Whooter and John D. Reuben had the same e-mail address. When these claims were put forward, Whooter immediately pretended that the poster had claimed that Whooter was Concerned Parent, a bit of flim-flammery in line with Whooter's other psychotic antics. If the claims are true, then you're left to decide if you believe that Whooter and John D. Reuben had the same e-mail address but are two totally different people.
Has Whooter challenged the authenticity of the PM in question? Does Concerned Parent still have the original?
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Maybe i'm slow. I'm scratching my head still trying to figure out what the smoking gun here. Can anybody succinctly explain to the stupid ones here such as myself what exactly connects TheWho to this Reuben guy.
You're not slow at all, just big. :) The smoking gun here is that John D Reuben and "the who" both use the same email address, http://whois.domaintools.com/savingteens.org (http://whois.domaintools.com/savingteens.org)
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent
Personally I think ASR is a good program. It worked for our family. My kid was there
when Dave Marcus wrote his book based on the kids in the program and they got back on
track and matured. I have been to the campus many times and think if it's a good fit
for your son that you shouldn't worry about it. Don't trust what you read on this site
because the members here are all anti-program and have an agenda to discredit all
programs. If you want to contact me outside fornits I can help you get in contact with
someone who can help you make the right decision. You can email me at
[email protected]. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you.
Going to deny this as well? I never called you out on it before, but I held onto it just in case you wanted to deny later that you said it.
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If Concerned Parent still has the PM, he/she could hand the login over to a neutral/trusted third party to verify the PM and make a screen-shot. If the email addresses match and that PM was indeed sent by TheWho, i'd say that is indeed a smoking gun.
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If the above e-mail address was sent to the person using the name Concerned Parent, by Whooter, as is claimed, and that e-mail address was that of John Reuben, as is also claimed, then Whooter and John D. Reuben had the same e-mail address. When these claims were put forward, Whooter immediately pretended that the poster had claimed that Whooter was Concerned Parent, a bit of flim-flammery in line with Whooter's other psychotic antics. If the claims are true, then you're left to decide if you believe that Whooter and John D. Reuben had the same e-mail address but are two totally different people.
Concerned Parent hasn't logged in since Feb. 7, 2006. Concerned parent has also only posted (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=39&t=10977&p=171187#p171187) about Thayer Learning Center. memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3575 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3575)
Accuser could have fabricated that PM. John Reuben's email address at [email protected] is not hard to find.
Do the ends justify these means?
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No idea what that ends justifies the means business is about. Reuben used his dead son to sell STICC. If he's Whooter, it's explosive for STICC, Aspen and the TTI in general, if not he's just a scum-bag.
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If Concerned Parent still has the PM, he/she could hand the login over to a neutral/trusted third party to verify the PM and make a screen-shot. If the email addresses match and that PM was indeed sent by TheWho, i'd say that is indeed a smoking gun.
There are a couple of ways to verify this (possibly):
1. Have the owner (Robert Bruce) of the user-name “Concerned Parent” turn over the PM to a third party (as Psy mentioned)… Psy or Ursus would be a safe neutral party.
2. If phpbb has a Delete (History) Table then this table could be viewed for the original post under my old user-name “TheWho”. Ursus has control over this name now, but I believe I deleted the PM’s prior to transferring the account.
3. If there is an old back-up of the database from one of the previous conversions or revision upgrades, this could be checked out. I believe I kept all my PM's intact until the end when I handed the account over.
I was hoping it wouldn’t come to this or go down this path. Posts like the published PM (above) does a lot of damage to those posters here on fornits who are dedicated to telling the truth. There becomes such desperation here on fornits, sometimes, to discredit someone or a program and if the facts just do not support their belief or generate enough attention then they end up fabricating a story (like this one) to get people to believe them or even to convince themselves.
This level of deceit throws into question the validity of the other stories we read about here on fornits. How do we know how desperate someone is (or how far they are willing to go) to discredit a program when we read their story after witnessing this ever increasing desperation to tie “TheWho” to this Reuben guy?
I think it would benefit Fornits and its readers to settle this and move on.
...
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Concerned Parent hasn't logged in since Feb. 7, 2006.
That's not quite true. That's the joined date. The last log in date is blank (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=3575). Not sure what that means. It could mean that the person has no logged in since the phpbb upgrade, and thus the date is cleared, but that's just a guess. Concerned parent could have written that pm. There is only one way to know for sure but Concerned Parent may have various reasons not to turn the account over to a third party.
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Hmmmm...let's see...whom would I believe about "telling the truth" and not "fabricating" evidence. Not TheWho, for sure. He logs in to try to make a gripe seem legitimate, but we all know he posts as dozens of different people every day and he has altered several quotes right in this thread. He posts as "Mike Wilson" or whatever made up name he chooses for that post, he has posed a student at Hyde, as an EdCon, a therapist, staff member, etc.
So we already know that Whooter cannot be trusted for any information, but if he's so interested in being forthright, let's have all of his anon posts from the last two years linked to his account and then maybe the already honest poster (Concerned Parent) would be willing to reveal more. But why should s/he when Whooter is hiding a whole walk-in closet full of skeletons?
Whooter claims he has nothing to hide, so let's see if he's lying about that, too. If he refuses to let Psy link all of his posts, we all know he's hiding a lot. He's been proved to be lying about a lot of things in this thread - proven lying by his own posts. I can tell you right now he's interested in getting to the bottom of it and he will refuse to have any of his info released or to have his posts linked, but he'll sit here and demand it from others. That says a lot about his truthfulness.
Why has Whooter resorted to trying to ruin someone's reputation rather than jst allow his point to be proven by linking up his posts? Isn' t that opposite of what he's asking of "Concerned Parent"? Sounds shady to me.
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How do we know how desperate someone is...?
I guess we can tell by their style, delivery and provision of facts to back up their points. Based on those fair criteria, it seems the OP is very calm, deliberate and points out many verifiable untruths in TheWho's story. It also seems TheWho is quite desperate to dispell the story but he was shown to be lying about quite a few important things in this thread that he was denying very desperately only to be caught by his own posts admitting to the same facts he was denying. So, from an uninterested third party POV, it looks like Whooter is desperate, but his desperation doesn't square with his tight withholding of all "evidence" that could be used to clear him. All he needs to do is own his guest posts to prove he's honest and worth looking into further. If he won't be transparent and have all of his posts linked, it lends to the charges of the already proven dishonesty.
So I guess we need his posts linked up or we need his old account restored from backup and all of his activity and PMs opened to the public (as Whooter already said he would allow). If he's unwilling to do these things we can safely assume he's lying. Think about it, if you were a murder suspect and you claimed to have the evidence to prove you didn't do it, but refused to let anyone see it, who believe you? Nobody. Remember how TheWho played this game with RobertBruce, saying that if RB refused to have his posts linked that everyone would know he's lying? Well, same standard here. Either TheWho links all of his posts and publishes all of his PMs from a restore of his old account or he's a liar. Plain and simple. By his own standards.
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Whooter, that last post was just silly. Regardless of whether or not your posts are linked, it's well-established that you're a liar. The issue here is whether or not the Concerned Parent pm is legit. If it's legit, then your lying is linked directly to Aspen and STICC.
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Whooter, that last post was just silly. Regardless of whether or not your posts are linked, it's well-established that you're a liar. The issue here is whether or not the Concerned Parent pm is legit. If it's legit, then your lying is linked directly to Aspen and STICC.
This is true and if Concerned Parent doesn’t authenticate the PM then we all witness the sad reality of the depths posters on fornits are willing to go to discredit a program or another person. It will throw into question the accuracy of all accounts written here and cause us to second guess the sincerity each time someone shares their experience of their time in a program going forward.
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Nope. We're not witness to anything like that. We just lack the conclusive evidence that confirms what is already highly likely given your persistent efforts to deny that you're John D. Reuben and your occasional unverifiable claim that John D. Reuben does not post here. Cui bono? Going forward, of course.
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Nope. We're not witness to anything like that. We just lack the conclusive evidence that confirms what is already highly likely given your persistent efforts to deny that you're John D. Reuben and your occasional unverifiable claim that John D. Reuben does not post here. Cui bono? Going forward, of course.
I have been reading along and I have to pipe in and say that if the PM is found to be fake then it doesnt mean that this thewho guy isnt Rueben but it does show that posters here are willing to lie and make up stories to discredit programs and other posters.
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Nope. Doesn't show that either. Whooter is already totally discredited, as is Reuben, as is Aspen, and as is STICC. Whooter already pretended that the comment alleged that he was Concernred Parent, which was not the case at all. Reuben uses his dead kid to sell STICC, STICC sells Aspen, and Aspen kills kids.
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Nope. Doesn't show that either. Whooter is already totally discredited, as is Reuben, as is Aspen, and as is STICC. Whooter already pretended that the comment alleged that he was Concernred Parent, which was not the case at all. Reuben uses his dead kid to sell STICC, STICC sells Aspen, and Aspen kills kids.
He is totally discredited that for sure. Now we are waiting to see if the person posting as "Concerned Parent" fabricated the PM linking TheWho to Reuben via email. We are all waiting for that to be exposed.
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Wrong again. We don't know if the person claiming to have posted as Concerned Parent ever did so. So we don't know if the claim that Reuben's email address was sent by the Who came from the person who posted as Concerned Parent, or someone claiming to be that person. Interesting that Whooter's behaviour is so odious that he acknowledges that it discredits anyone and anything proven to be tied to it.
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A PM sent by TheWho to me when he thought I wanted to send my son to ASR:
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent
Personally I think ASR is a good program. It worked for our family. My kid was there
when Dave Marcus wrote his book based on the kids in the program and they got back on
track and matured. I have been to the campus many times and think if it's a good fit
for your son that you shouldn't worry about it. Don't trust what you read on this site
because the members here are all anti-program and have an agenda to discredit all
programs. If you want to contact me outside fornits I can help you get in contact with
someone who can help you make the right decision. You can email me at
[email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) was offered by Whooter as a contact to talk outside of Fornits. How could John Reuben login as TheWho and send PMs to me as TheWho? Did Reuben break into TheWho's Fornits account? Or is it more sensible that John Reuben and TheWho are the same person? Obviously they are.
Then Whooter says this:
As far as the email goes that could have been anyone. How do you know [email protected] is thewho? You never established this.
Well, yes, I did. You PMed me the address. And now I looked up the address to see if it was used anywhere else. And it was! Both on a struggling-parent type bulletin board where it was linking to STICC and also on the whois report for the STICC website. Coincidence? Hardly.
This is the smoking gun. If this PM can be authenticated then TheWho and Reuben can be linked via email. If it is not then the poster fabricated the PM.
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Psy said he would be willing to authenicate the PM. We are just waiting for Bruce, I mean "Concerned Parent" to contact Psy. I am sure if the whole thing was made up we will know shortly because Bruce will not have anything to authorize...... We may have to call this "BruceGate". Tick...Tick...Tick.
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Nope. We're just waiting for TheWho to have all of his posts strung together and his account restored from backup so we can see all of his PMs firsthand. He seems pretty desperate to shift the focus off him on to "RobertBruce" as usual, the only problem being this thread has nothing to do with RobertBruce. I guess not so coincidentally, TheWho has also already admitted to creating a false "RobertBruce" login account and posing as RobertBruce. Not long ago, TheWho was claiming he and RobertBruce were one in the same. He lies so much you can't believe anything he says. So I don't think the burden of proof for anything is on anyone other than TheWho. If he wasn't hiding anything, he'd be getting his posts linked and his account restored so we can see the contents of his PMs. If he doesn't do it, then he's hiding things he doesn't want anyone to know. It's really that simple. Imagine if he was accused of a crime and he had evidence to absolve himself, but he claimed someone else had to produce it. Who would believe him? What if he was selling you a car, but refused to show you the title? You wouldn't believe him. No, this time he'll have to put up or shut up. Let's get those posts linked together and we'll see who's been doing all the lying.
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Whooter, it doesn't prove that the PM was fabricated if the PM can't be authenticated.
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I agree with some of the other posters. Read this string. It starts with this guy TheWho denying he ever went to Chicago for a TTI meeting and denying he's connected to the industry in any way other than being just a parent of a program kid.
Then he was quoted showing in his own words he DID go to Chicago for a TTI meeting and that he's on a comittee to assess the safety of TBSs. So he was proven lying about two things he denied strongly, even saying that the claims were bogus until Psy could verify he posted from Chicago, the same MO he's using now, trying to get Psy to fight his battles, but not giving Psy the permission to link his posts. See what I mean? He's the one making a claim, but he won't back up the claim with evidence.
Anyway, let's say this string is three counts of lying against TheWho. The first two he denied, then copped to when he couldn't lie any more and was caught and the third he's denying as he did the others, but it was already proven, so he's really just having a hissy fit that he was exposed. When you get caught lying so many times you lose credibility, so TheWho is the one who needs to prove he's not lying because all of the pieces fit that he IS lying.
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Psy said he would be willing to authenicate the PM. We are just waiting for Bruce, I mean "Concerned Parent" to contact Psy. I am sure if the whole thing was made up we will know shortly because Bruce will not have anything to authorize...... We may have to call this "BruceGate". Tick...Tick...Tick.
He said he could authenticate it as a 3rd party. This could also be done by Ursus also if Concerned Parent wanted.
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TheWho does not need to prove he's not lying. It is assumed that he is lying, as he has repeatedly lied in the past, and it would be in John D. Reuben's interest to lie in denying that he is Whooter. The only way for Whooter to prove that he is not John D. Reuben, would be for him to prove that he is someone other than John D. Reuben. The issue is whether it can be proven that he is lying about this specific issue, for which there is ample circumstantial evidence that he is indeed lying.
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If Concerned Parent still has the PM, he/she could hand the login over to a neutral/trusted third party to verify the PM and make a screen-shot. If the email addresses match and that PM was indeed sent by TheWho, i'd say that is indeed a smoking gun.
This will indeed be the "smoking gun". I am sure if it is real that he still has the PM. He has been saving it for 3 years and he just posted it a couple of days ago. Have you heard from this "Concerned Parent" yet? Can you ask him why he waited 3 years to confront TheWho on this?
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TheWho does not need to prove he's not lying. It is assumed that he is lying, as he has repeatedly lied in the past, and it would be in John D. Reuben's interest to lie in denying that he is Whooter. The only way for Whooter to prove that he is not John D. Reuben, would be for him to prove that he is someone other than John D. Reuben. The issue is whether it can be proven that he is lying about this specific issue, for which there is ample circumstantial evidence that he is indeed lying.
This is a great point and a great way to think about his little problem Whooter has. Indeed, if this were a court, he would have already been convicted of perjury by his false and contradictory statements (e.g. trip to CHI, being part of some sort of TBS safety panel, etc.) and the circumstantial evidence in addition to the proven willingness to perjure himself closes the book on him. He would definitely be convicted of all three counts. If he wanted to appeal, he'd have to show evidence the convictions were false. I don't see any evidence.
But, if he wanted to "clear" himself, he could easily prove he's NOT Reuben by giving his true identity and some form of proof of identity. That would clear up the whole thing. Heck, maybe he was just shilling for STICC here and giving out Reuben's address and not his own. We wouldn't know that unless we saw proof he is not Reuben. Until then, the evidence is plenty strong enough to believe he is Reuben.
No "smoking gun" is required and criminal cases are adjudicated on circumstantial evidence all the time. Just have him prove his identity is someone other than Reuben and the whole point of this thread becomes moot. I mean, we all know already he's a huge liar. That's nothing new. So he can just prove his identity is not Reuben or get his posts strung together to prove he would never pose as anyone or mislead about his identity. I'd accept either as proof of his claim he is not Reuben.
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First, Whooter is not trying to "clear" himself. We already know he's a degenerate liar. Denying that he's John D. Reuben protects Reuben from the real-world consequences of being Whooter, not vice-versa. Whooter has nothing to gain from not being John D. Reuben, whereas Reuben has plenty to gain from not being Whooter. Getting Whooter's posts strung together does not prove he would never pose as anyone or mislead about his identity.
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No, but we'd see if he EVER did it, wouldn't we? Stringing his posts together would show quite a bit about TheWho's impersonating/pretending to be others. This is why he won't do it. It would be the "smoking gun" of his multiple logins, identities, lies, etc.
I think we al lagree finally that he either is Reuben or he is trying to protect Reuben for some crazy "I never met the guy, but I'll spend all day every day of my life defending him" reason. Common sense says TheWho is Reuben. I'd need some compelling evidence to the contrary to sway me from that conclusion.
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We don't all agree that Whooter is Reuben or trying to protect Reuben, as all evidence points to Whooter being Reuben and trying to protect Reuben. We already know plenty about Whooter pretending to be others. It's not common sense, it's evidence such as Whooter's vigorous effort to deny being Reuben, the explosion of emoticons after the prospect of Reuben's employer Correlsense being informed about Aspen and linked to Whooter, Whooter's bizarre attempt to reverse the roles in the post attributed to Concerned parent, etc.
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No, but we'd see if he EVER did it, wouldn't we? Stringing his posts together would show quite a bit about TheWho's impersonating/pretending to be others. This is why he won't do it. It would be the "smoking gun" of his multiple logins, identities, lies, etc.
I think we al lagree finally that he either is Reuben or he is trying to protect Reuben for some crazy "I never met the guy, but I'll spend all day every day of my life defending him" reason. Common sense says TheWho is Reuben. I'd need some compelling evidence to the contrary to sway me from that conclusion.
I am not convinced. TheWho has already had his posts strung together 2 or 3 times already. This is a strange request coming from someone posting as a guest. Once Psy verifies that the PM is legit we have Reuben and TheWho with the same email address. Then its a lock and we know for sure. Until then we got nothing.
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Oh, that's not the case at all. As it's been alleged that TheWho is John D. Reuben, the person who benefits from John D. Reuben not being TheWho is John D. Reuben. If TheWho were not John D. Reuben, he would benefit from having anyone reading Fornits believe that he is John D. Reuben. In this case, TheWho would not benefit from denying to be John D. Reuben. Stringing the posts together is entirely irrelevent. There is in fact, no reason to believe that TheWho is anyone other than John D. Reuben, since Whooter has tirelessly worked to dissuade folks from the logical conclusion that he is John D. Reuben, which would be contrary to his interests were they not one and the same.
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Who's on first ?
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No, Who's on Fornits, and thus is John D. Reuben.
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No, Who's on Fornits, and thus is John D. Reuben.
Concerned Parent is on 2nd with his PM!
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Regardless of where Concerned Parent is, one has many reasons to believe that John D. Reuben took it upon himself to post thousands of posts on Fornits in a variety of guises. These posts were deceitful, malicious, and exemplify a very disturbed mind. The fact that John D. Reuben has influence over the fates of vulnerable young people via STICC is a truly alarming prospect if one accepts the evidence that Reuben is TheWho. And there has been no reason presented thus far to prompt one to accept a belief contrary to that.
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I don't know.
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If the OP and other posters on this thread were willing to make up emails and PMs in a frustrated effort to discredit TheWho how far would they go to discredit a program? Would they be willing to do the same thing? Would they fabricate stories of abuse? If they felt confident that they made the connection between thewho and Reuben why would they have to make things up?
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Maybe i'm slow. I'm scratching my head still trying to figure out what the smoking gun here. Can anybody succinctly explain to the stupid ones here such as myself what exactly connects TheWho to this Reuben guy.
We are still waiting for Concerned Parent to validate the PM. If this turns out to be valid then it would show that thewho and this Reuben guy have the same email address. Since he hasn’t contacted you yet doesn’t bode well for their credibility.
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We don't all agree that Whooter is Reuben or trying to protect Reuben, as all evidence points to Whooter being Reuben and trying to protect Reuben. We already know plenty about Whooter pretending to be others. It's not common sense, it's evidence such as Whooter's vigorous effort to deny being Reuben, the explosion of emoticons after the prospect of Reuben's employer Correlsense being informed about Aspen and linked to Whooter, Whooter's bizarre attempt to reverse the roles in the post attributed to Concerned parent, etc.
Yep, totally agree. There is no reason to doubt the authenticity of the PM, as all other evidence was verified by Whooter himself and showed that he was indeed lying about a lot of things. It follows naturally he's lying about this email address as well. It's a pattern of behavior: TheWho lies, gets caught lying, denies it vehemently, gets proven lying again and then admits to it in some flip way as if it didn't matter, but then why does he fight so hard to keep secrets from the readers here? Makes no sense.
Based on his vigorous denial, he's following the same pattern again. Unfortunately for him, he has no credibility so he can't "win" the "he said/she/said battle" because he lost that one many years ago. Now he has to put up or shut up.
If he can simply provide evidence that he never impersonates people or makes up identities to support his points, I'm willing to say he's right and the OP is wrong. But he has to link up his posts and they all have to come back as one persona. If there's any funny business there where he's impersonating people or denying it's him posting, he has lost any chance of convincing anyone. If he refuses to get honest and let his posts be transparent for all to see, same deal: he's hiding bad behavior.
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Maybe i'm slow. I'm scratching my head still trying to figure out what the smoking gun here. Can anybody succinctly explain to the stupid ones here such as myself what exactly connects TheWho to this Reuben guy.
We are still waiting for Concerned Parent to validate the PM. If this turns out to be valid then it would show that thewho and this Reuben guy have the same email address. Since he hasn’t contacted you yet doesn’t bode well for their credibility.
Its been too long. If the OP were going to allow Psy to authenticate the PM connecting Reuben to thewho he would have done it by now. That sucks for us.
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Whooter, you've got it all wrong again. If the Concerned Parent PM is authenticated, then STICC is finished, and the consequences for John D. Reuben will be severe in terms of the repercussions at Correlsense and the backlash that will come against Aspen. If it's not authenticated, there are many, many instances of you assuming other identities, from your bizarre penchant for posting and then replying under a username without logging in, to your repeated denials that you're Reuben when all evidence points to you being Reuben. The plan I read in another thread is more than adequate to unleash the deluge upon you by ensuring that the Correlsense folks get all the available info on Aspen closures, deaths and investigations, an explanaion of STICC's relationship to Aspen, John D. Reuben's criminal record and a sample of your work on Fornits. As there is no reason to doubt that you're Reuben, this should be a very effective measure.
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Whooter, you've got it all wrong again. If the Concerned Parent PM is authenticated, then STICC is finished, and the consequences for John D. Reuben will be severe in terms of the repercussions at Correlsense and the backlash that will come against Aspen. If it's not authenticated, then it is a sad day because this will document that survivors are willing to lie and make up stories about abuse inide the programs. How will we ever get people to believe our posts after this? I wish this thread were never started. It makes us all look bad.
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We are still waiting for Concerned Parent to validate the PM. If this turns out to be valid then it would show that thewho and this Reuben guy have the same email address.
Poster claiming to be concerned parent seems to have made up a story. Pretty low. Why do some survivors feel the need to make up stories to discredit? Sounds personal. Lets stick with the REAL issues here people. Not make up lies. Otherwise your no better than what you accuse him of.
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Wrong again, Whooter. If the Concerned Parent PM is made up, it doesn't change the fact that you're John D. Reuben. You're a liar and you're involved in a harmful scam via STICC. It's a proven fact that Aspen kills kids, it's a proven fact that they are the subject of investigations by various authorities, and their facilities have been closed. You're psychotic Whooter, so you still think that you're reaching some undecided, uninformed audience here, but your only capability is disruption of communication between people who already know what you're about. The important thing now is to get you fired from Correlsense, hopefully sued by Correlsense and possibly Aspen, and to shut STICC down.
I read the other day Whooter that studies have shown that psychopaths do feel emotions, but they are distracted. Is that why you come across as being so stupid Whooter? Are you distracted?
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We are still waiting for Concerned Parent to validate the PM. If this turns out to be valid then it would show that thewho and this Reuben guy have the same email address.
Poster claiming to be concerned parent seems to have made up a story. Pretty low. Why do some survivors feel the need to make up stories to discredit? Sounds personal. Lets stick with the REAL issues here people. Not make up lies. Otherwise your no better than what you accuse him of.
I agree with this too. We have a survivor who is pretending to be a concerned parent :eek: and who knows how many other people here on fornits, then posts a Personal Message on the open forum which turns out to be a lie!! They are accusing TheWho of doing what? The same thing? lol
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Whooter, no one's accusing you of anything. Anybody reading here knows what you do. Getting you fired and sued is important as it will deal a serious blow to ASPEN and thus the TTI in general, and provide a little personal satisfaction to anybody who was offended or otherwise afflicted by your antisocial behaviour.
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Wrong again, Whooter. If the Concerned Parent PM is made up, it doesn't change the fact that you're John D. Reuben. You're a liar and you're involved in a harmful scam via STICC. It's a proven fact that Aspen kills kids, it's a proven fact that they are the subject of investigations by various authorities, and their facilities have been closed. You're psychotic Whooter, so you still think that you're reaching some undecided, uninformed audience here, but your only capability is disruption of communication between people who already know what you're about. The important thing now is to get you fired from Correlsense, hopefully sued by Correlsense and possibly Aspen, and to shut STICC down. I read the other day Whooter that studies have shown that psychopaths do feel emotions, but they are distracted. Is that why you come across as being so stupid Whooter? Are you distracted?
Ajax13, Do you mean shut down (http://http://cdn.edu-search.com/uploads/laugh.jpg) the way you did it to AARC (http://http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HkP3veaALsQ/Sl0V2YqKgtI/AAAAAAAAAJA/3yLTXpA-xMs/s400/laughing+man.gif)? Oh, wait AARC’s revenue increased over the past few years Ha,Ha,Ha (http://http://oraclespeak.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/laughing-man2.jpg) or should we call you Concerned Parent (http://http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_262/1209152131zKH096.jpg)?
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What's interesting, my friends, is that Mr. Whooter was, at one point, claiming that the PM concerned parent received has his email in it as the result of a "misunderstanding."
I am getting a little choked up after seeing the lengths that Whooter will go to help a fellow human being. Here I was convinced that John D. Reuben of STICC and Correlsense was shilling for Aspen and taunting people who have been subjected to all manner of degradation in TTI operations, but Whooter has convinced me that I was wrong. In post after post Whooter has insisted that John D. Reuben did not commit the acts for which he is being blamed. Such a prolonged and determined effort by Whooter to help this John D. Reuben avoid having to answer for these acts is so very touching.
Thanks Ajax13 for coming around. Dont feel bad about it, many have claimed I have been different people over the years (mostly edCons, go figure). The Bruce is in the final stages of realizing that I am not this Reuben guy also. It seems this got started by someone sending him a PM to respond to STICCs and he wrongly assumed it was me (just an error in judgement on his part). [/u] Sorry you had all this heart burn over it.
I will still need to hold you accountable over in the AARC forum, so keep it honest over there.
Now he's saying it never existed. Somewhat inconsistent?
Guest/ Concerned parent? Are you out there?
If so, please authenticate the PM or provide an explanation why you can't / won't? Thanksgiving week is coming to a close..hope you'll have time to finish this up tonight. Don't leave us hanging!
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Wrong again, Whooter. If the Concerned Parent PM is made up, it doesn't change the fact that you're John D. Reuben. You're a liar and you're involved in a harmful scam via STICC. It's a proven fact that Aspen kills kids, it's a proven fact that they are the subject of investigations by various authorities, and their facilities have been closed. You're psychotic Whooter, so you still think that you're reaching some undecided, uninformed audience here, but your only capability is disruption of communication between people who already know what you're about. The important thing now is to get you fired from Correlsense, hopefully sued by Correlsense and possibly Aspen, and to shut STICC down. I read the other day Whooter that studies have shown that psychopaths do feel emotions, but they are distracted. Is that why you come across as being so stupid Whooter? Are you distracted?
Ajax13, Do you mean shut down (http://http://cdn.edu-search.com/uploads/laugh.jpg) the way you did it to AARC (http://http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HkP3veaALsQ/Sl0V2YqKgtI/AAAAAAAAAJA/3yLTXpA-xMs/s400/laughing+man.gif)? Oh, wait AARC’s revenue increased over the past few years Ha,Ha,Ha (http://http://oraclespeak.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/laughing-man2.jpg) or should we call you Concerned Parent (http://http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_262/1209152131zKH096.jpg)?
lol, thats funny. It does sound like Ajax13
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Now he's saying it never existed. Somewhat inconsistent?
Ajax13, we all know that it exists. We have read it several times lol. What we are waiting to see is if it is authentic or not. Once yourself/Bruce gives the word to allow Psy to take a look at it we will have the answer. But I think most of us have the answer already that it is a fake or the work would had been done already.
Try to keep up.
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Now he's saying it never existed. Somewhat inconsistent?
Ajax13, we all know that it exists. We have read it several times lol. What we are waiting to see is if it is authentic or not. Once yourself/Bruce gives the word to allow Psy to take a look at it we will have the answer. But I think most of us have the answer already that it is a fake or the work would had been done already.
Try to keep up.
Ajax13 knows well enough. He started this thread and he is Concerned Parent. His last post was the beginning of some back peddling, that he has gotten use to recently, to distance himself from the whole PM embarrassment. He really made all the other survivors look bad by creating a fictitious PM and trying to pass it off to discredit whooter.
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More aliases popping up, eh?
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Well, add "John Mumford" to the list of Whooter's identities. Why is he making up fake supporters and getting more and more desperate? First he said Concerned Parent was RobertBruce. Now he says Concerned Parent is Ajax13. Hmmm... A bit of a pattern here to obfuscate the storyline? I think so.
Half of this thread is Whooter responding to himself, but never logged in. Trying to fool people as usual. If he wants any credibility he'll have his posts linked so everyone can really see what he does. Until then, he can be assumed to be lying. He doesn't want to show HIS PMs because they'll show this one in the sentbox. He won't tell his email address because it's [email protected]. He won't say his identity because it is John Reuben. Sorry, Whooter, but you've been waaaaaay too dishonest for waaaaaaay too long to have the benefit of any doubt, if there even is any.
Sorry, Ajax13, this isnt Whooter. The problem you are having is you created this fake PM and tried to pass it off as a PM from TheWho and you were caught. Instead of admitting this you are trying to create a list of lies other people have told to cover your own. Its a bad move and everyone can see right through it.
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Funny. First TheWho says "Concerned Parent is RobertBruce." Next he says "Concerned Parent is Ajax13." Then finally he says Concerned Parent is "Bruce/Ajax13." Which is it? One? Both? Neither? The other? I've seen Whooter get fully owned many, many times, but this time he's more desperate than I've ever seen. This is obviously some last ditch effort by Whooter to muddy the waters, but it's too late for that now.
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Funny. First TheWho says "Concerned Parent is RobertBruce." Next he says "Concerned Parent is Ajax13." Then finally he says Concerned Parent is "Bruce/Ajax13." Which is it? One? Both? Neither? The other? I've seen Whooter get fully owned many, many times, but this time he's more desperate than I've ever seen. This is obviously some last ditch effort by Whooter to muddy the waters, but it's too late for that now.
Wiggle, wiggle, but you cant get free.......Sorry, ajax13, the Concerned Parent PM has tarnished all the other posts here. You managed to document here on this thread that survivors are willing to make up lies in an attempt to discredit programs and people who disagree with them. Unfortunately for you this will always stay with you and be associated with your log-in name.
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Funny. First TheWho says "Concerned Parent is RobertBruce." Next he says "Concerned Parent is Ajax13." Then finally he says Concerned Parent is "Bruce/Ajax13." Which is it? One? Both? Neither? The other? I've seen Whooter get fully owned many, many times, but this time he's more desperate than I've ever seen. This is obviously some last ditch effort by Whooter to muddy the waters, but it's too late for that now.
Wiggle, wiggle, but you cant get free.......Sorry, ajax13, the Concerned Parent PM has tarnished all the other posts here. You managed to document here on this thread that survivors are willing to make up lies in an attempt to discredit programs and people who disagree with them. Unfortunately for you this will always stay with you and be associated with your log-in name.
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Wrong again, Whooter. If the Concerned Parent PM is made up, it doesn't change the fact that you're John D. Reuben. You're a liar and you're involved in a harmful scam via STICC. It's a proven fact that Aspen kills kids, it's a proven fact that they are the subject of investigations by various authorities, and their facilities have been closed. You're psychotic Whooter, so you still think that you're reaching some undecided, uninformed audience here, but your only capability is disruption of communication between people who already know what you're about. The important thing now is to get you fired from Correlsense, hopefully sued by Correlsense and possibly Aspen, and to shut STICC down. I read the other day Whooter that studies have shown that psychopaths do feel emotions, but they are distracted. Is that why you come across as being so stupid Whooter? Are you distracted?
Ajax13, Do you mean shut down (http://http://cdn.edu-search.com/uploads/laugh.jpg) the way you did it to AARC (http://http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HkP3veaALsQ/Sl0V2YqKgtI/AAAAAAAAAJA/3yLTXpA-xMs/s400/laughing+man.gif)? Oh, wait AARC’s revenue increased over the past few years Ha,Ha,Ha (http://http://oraclespeak.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/laughing-man2.jpg) or should we call you Concerned Parent (http://http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_262/1209152131zKH096.jpg)?
WTF?!! lol
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Funny. First TheWho says "Concerned Parent is RobertBruce." Next he says "Concerned Parent is Ajax13." Then finally he says Concerned Parent is "Bruce/Ajax13." Which is it? One? Both? Neither? The other? I've seen Whooter get fully owned many, many times, but this time he's more desperate than I've ever seen. This is obviously some last ditch effort by Whooter to muddy the waters, but it's too late for that now.
Exactly, but it's an epic failure. He's just flailing trying to blame others for his own actions again. He's just making wild accusations with no merit. Funny that a well documented case by the OP would yield such a weak, factless counter from TheWho. Usually he just says "Bruce did it!" a few times and wanders off. But this time you can tell a real nerve was hit because he is just so desperate to throw some stuff to the wall and see what sticks, if anything. So far...nothing.
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Funny. First TheWho says "Concerned Parent is RobertBruce." Next he says "Concerned Parent is Ajax13." Then finally he says Concerned Parent is "Bruce/Ajax13." Which is it? One? Both? Neither? The other? I've seen Whooter get fully owned many, many times, but this time he's more desperate than I've ever seen. This is obviously some last ditch effort by Whooter to muddy the waters, but it's too late for that now.
Exactly, but it's an epic failure. He's just flailing trying to blame others for his own actions again. He's just making wild accusations with no merit. Funny that a well documented case by the OP would yield such a weak, factless counter from TheWho. Usually he just says "Bruce did it!" a few times and wanders off. But this time you can tell a real nerve was hit because he is just so desperate to throw some stuff to the wall and see what sticks, if anything. So far...nothing.
Wiggle, Wiggle.. Sorry Ajax13, answering your own posts are not going to set you free from this. We need to remember the little issue of the forged PM which you tried to blame on TheWho.... Psy is still waiting to get this authorized. Seeing how much time has passed we can assume you were lying again. Lets see, lying, pretending to be a program parent, logging in under numerous names, fabricating evidence and now trolling as a guest..... tsk,tsk... isnt this a few of the things you are accusing TheWho of doing? :eek: lol
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Wrong again, Whooter. If the Concerned Parent PM is made up, it doesn't change the fact that you're John D. Reuben. You're a liar and you're involved in a harmful scam via STICC. It's a proven fact that Aspen kills kids, it's a proven fact that they are the subject of investigations by various authorities, and their facilities have been closed. You're psychotic Whooter, so you still think that you're reaching some undecided, uninformed audience here, but your only capability is disruption of communication between people who already know what you're about. The important thing now is to get you fired from Correlsense, hopefully sued by Correlsense and possibly Aspen, and to shut STICC down. I read the other day Whooter that studies have shown that psychopaths do feel emotions, but they are distracted. Is that why you come across as being so stupid Whooter? Are you distracted?
Ajax13, Do you mean shut down (http://http://cdn.edu-search.com/uploads/laugh.jpg) the way you did it to AARC (http://http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_HkP3veaALsQ/Sl0V2YqKgtI/AAAAAAAAAJA/3yLTXpA-xMs/s400/laughing+man.gif)? Oh, wait AARC’s revenue increased over the past few years Ha,Ha,Ha (http://http://oraclespeak.files.wordpress.com/2009/08/laughing-man2.jpg) or should we call you Concerned Parent (http://http://thumbs.dreamstime.com/thumb_262/1209152131zKH096.jpg)?
WTF?!! lol
I know, a little harsh. But he has had it coming a long time. He put a lot of hours in trying to discredit that place and all they did was grow bigger and more successful. Go figure.
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Whooter, I've never used the expression "owned" in that context in my life. Who do you think is going to consider the posts tarnished? There's just you and the Fornitscators. You're not providing some sort of counter that informs unitiated prospective program parents. The threads are all far too convoluted for someone to decipher. They might as well be written in Sanskrit for anyone not following along. But if they've been following along, they already know the story, already know you're John D. Reuben, already know about Aspen's quirky client mortality rate, already know about the closures and investigations, and already know about you attempting to exploit the death of your son for your own gain. You're living in a fantasy world if you think otherwise, Whooter. Can you possibly think I am concerned about what is associated with my log-in name? Who in the name of the almighty would I have to be concerned about associating anything with me or my log-in name? Feel free to put my log-in name above posts claiming to have taken the Lindbergh baby or whatever you choose. It's meaningless.
When your criminal record, the info about Aspen and STICC and the Fornits posts you made get to your bosses, do you really think they're going to examine reams of this shit and say, "gosh, I don't know if I can take these Fornits people seriously."
You're all finished Whooter. Metaphorically speaking, you're a dead man walking. It's a metaphor because you're only symbolically dead, and nowhere near a man.
By the way Whooter, if AARC's revenue has increased, it'll be awfully hard for them to show damages in their law suits. Since they are claiming such a loss, it looks like you're lying again.
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Can you possibly think I am concerned about what is associated with my log-in name? Who in the name of the almighty would I have to be concerned about associating anything with me or my log-in name? Feel free to put my log-in name above posts claiming to have taken the Lindbergh baby or whatever you choose. It's meaningless.
Whoa, you went right in and started licking the wound. I dont think you liked me associating you to this failed attempt to tie TheWho to a fake PM. I know it hurts, Ajax13, but you should have thought about the consequences before you wrote it and put it out there. You cant take it back now and it is permenent evidence that posters like yourself are willing to make up stories to discredit any program or person and throws into doubt the validity of each post. This was your doing not anyone elses.
Can we call you "Program Parent" now? Are you going to utilize the double standard and get pissed when others use multiple logins, lie and make up PM's? or give everyone else a pass?
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Off to the side here for a minute...................
By the way Whooter, if AARC's revenue has increased, it'll be awfully hard for them to show damages in their law suits. Since they are claiming such a loss, it looks like you're lying again.
What the hell is that matter with you?.....Wrong again, if, say (for example) AARC projected a 30% increase in revenue each year going forward and they were damaged by libel which resulted in only a 10% increase then they would realize a 20% loss in revenue for that time period.
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Whooter, you can call me Concerned Parent or whatever you want. I'm not sure what wound you're talking about, or what consequences. The only communications on Fornits that concern me are those between me and people who have information that I want, or people who want information that I have. Beyond that, I don't care what anyone posts here. Your interest was never in an exchange of information, it was to indulge your perverse penchant for taunting the people who were subjected to the TTI and in making a lame, totally ineffective attempt to cover your ass. The only information you had that anyone was interested in was your identity, because you're a deviant and people wanted to stop your malicious, freak-show antics. I will be pleased when you go down in flames simply because you're a degenerate asshole, and every now and again one of you reaps what you've sown, and because your psychotic obsession with me drove you to try to impede the communication between me and the people I wished to communicate with. AARC is claiming 1.5 million in damages in one suit, and I don't know how much in the others. If they have suffered such a loss, I don't take credit for it, and if they haven't, then they don't have a court case. You on the other hand, have a vested interest in deceiving people simply because there will be serious consequences for you in the real world once the truth regarding you, STICC and Aspen is exposed in the real world. Think about the epistemology here, dummy.
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Whooter, you can call me Concerned Parent or whatever you want. I'm not sure what wound you're talking about, or what consequences. The only communications on Fornits that concern me are those between me and people who have information that I want, or people who want information that I have. Beyond that, I don't care what anyone posts here. Your interest was never in an exchange of information, it was to indulge your perverse penchant for taunting the people who were subjected to the TTI and in making a lame, totally ineffective attempt to cover your ass. The only information you had that anyone was interested in was your identity, because you're a deviant and people wanted to stop your malicious, freak-show antics. I will be pleased when you go down in flames simply because you're a degenerate asshole, and every now and again one of you reaps what you've sown, and because your psychotic obsession with me drove you to try to impede the communication between me and the people I wished to communicate with. AARC is claiming 1.5 million in damages in one suit, and I don't know how much in the others. If they have suffered such a loss, I don't take credit for it, and if they haven't, then they don't have a court case. You on the other hand, have a vested interest in deceiving people simply because there will be serious consequences for you in the real world once the truth regarding you, STICC and Aspen is exposed in the real world. Think about the epistemology here, dummy.
What do you mean you dont take credit for it? How could you? You could not even figure out their studies enough to argue against them. I had to walk you thru most of it. You know very well why I am here and why you are so pissed off. Its because I expose your lies and hold you accountable. I exposed you it in the AARC thread and again here. You really think you can make up PM's about people and not be held accountable the the outcome?
I told that if you keep the posts honest then I wont have a problem with you and I wont have a need to hold your feet to the fire. Your obsession with me is strange to say the least.
Just keep the posts honest.
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Accountable to whom, Whooter? I didn't make up that PM, but I would certainly have no problem with someone sending it to Correlsense along with your criminal record and the information about Aspen program deaths and STICC's relationship to ASPEN. If it makes you feel better to think you outed me, please, feel free. For all I know, you posted it yourself. I was hopeful that it was genuine, since it would crush you once it's presented to the appropriate people, but if it was fake, it doesn't detract one iota from the mountain of evidence of malfeasance on your part. You can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that anything you post is relevant to me only insofar as you used the mechanics of the forum to interfere with me communicating with folks who wished to communicate with me and with whom I wished to communicate, and to the extent that you're a disgusting liar who pissed me off. You can't keep me honest or dishonest, Whooter. There isn't much left for me to get out of Fornits. AARC's fate is going to be decided by the people who provide it's funding. I collected information related to AARC and put in my posts. How that information is used by those who read the posts is way beyond my control. But for you Whooter, the interesting times are about to begin.
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Accountable to whom, Whooter? I didn't make up that PM, but I would certainly have no problem with someone sending it to Correlsense along with your criminal record and the information about Aspen program deaths and STICC's relationship to ASPEN.
Believe me no one is going to send that information out to someones company. I think you know this also. First of all we have established it to be false information and their email address would trace it back to them for a lawsuit. There was plenty of opportunity to easily validate the information, but like any other false accusations when it comes time to put it on the table they run because they could be sued.
Secondly even Psy couldn’t see where you had any evidence connecting me to this Reuben guy and offered his help to validate the info but no one took him up on his offer because no one wanted the truth. Its just not there,Ajax13 . Pick your strongest piece of evidence and I will show you that it is all in your mind.
But aside from all that the main thing is that you believe it and you are enjoying yourself. None of us would be here if we didn’t enjoy it.
If it makes you feel better to think you outed me, please, feel free. For all I know, you posted it yourself. I was hopeful that it was genuine, since it would crush you once it's presented to the appropriate people, but if it was fake, it doesn't detract one iota from the mountain of evidence of malfeasance on your part.
That is one of your problems is that you “hope” the evidence is genuine, but as we have seen throughout this thread you have nothing. This hope you have overrides any logic that may be placed in front of you.
You can't seem to wrap your head around the fact that anything you post is relevant to me only insofar as you used the mechanics of the forum to interfere with me communicating with folks who wished to communicate with me and with whom I wished to communicate, and to the extent that you're a disgusting liar who pissed me off.
I think we have established who the liar is. If you had been truthful over in the AARC thread our posts would have never met. You brought this on yourself.
You can't keep me honest or dishonest, Whooter.
Well in a way I can. I can alert the readers to your lies and thereby neutralize them, which was highly successful in the past.
There isn't much left for me to get out of Fornits. AARC's fate is going to be decided by the people who provide it's funding. I collected information related to AARC and put in my posts. How that information is used by those who read the posts is way beyond my control.
All non-profit businesses are controlled by their funding.
But for you Whooter, the interesting times are about to begin.
Actually my interesting times wont pick up until late spring 2010. We are going to have a fairly quiet winter this year.
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This is hilarious. TheWho is now trying to steamroll Ajax13 as being "Concerned Parent," which he is not. Before he was trying to pin his troubles on RobertBruce, who is also not "Concerned Parent."
The truth is this thread was started to highlight TheWho's lies, which was done very well. He denied vehemently, and then copped, when forced, to two huge lies, but he's still denying the third fact. No matter. The thrust of this thread was to show TheWho lies all the time, about everything. By accusing RobertBruce and Ajax13 of being his tormentor in this thread, he only proves the point he's railing against: TheWho is willing to lie to discredit the truth. He's lying about Ajax13 and lying about RobertBruce, in addition to the other two huge, proven lies in this thread alone.
The damage is done. TheWho's credibility has been gone for a long time, but the difference now is that even the casual peruser of these threads also knows right away that they can't trust what he says, which, of course, cripples his ability to refer to Aspen. And on top of that, Aspen has taken a serious digger this year, shutting down several facilities under well-publicized killings, abuse and neglect of children. An ebbing tide sinks all boats.
Whooter just doesn't realize his whole game has been scuttled and is flailing away trying to get the dogs off the scent. The perfect storm has consumed him personally and professionally and Fornits has become his Waterloo. Now he's like Golem roaming middle earth chasing the unattainable, which is his case, is credibility. He has none and never will have any again.
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This is hilarious. TheWho is now trying to steamroll Ajax13 as being "Concerned Parent," which he is not. Before he was trying to pin his troubles on RobertBruce, who is also not "Concerned Parent."
The truth is this thread was started to highlight TheWho's lies, which was done very well. He denied vehemently, and then copped, when forced, to two huge lies, but he's still denying the third fact. No matter. The thrust of this thread was to show TheWho lies all the time, about everything. By accusing RobertBruce and Ajax13 of being his tormentor in this thread, he only proves the point he's railing against: TheWho is willing to lie to discredit the truth. He's lying about Ajax13 and lying about RobertBruce, in addition to the other two huge, proven lies in this thread alone.
The damage is done. TheWho's credibility has been gone for a long time, but the difference now is that even the casual peruser of these threads also knows right away that they can't trust what he says, which, of course, cripples his ability to refer to Aspen. And on top of that, Aspen has taken a serious digger this year, shutting down several facilities under well-publicized killings, abuse and neglect of children. An ebbing tide sinks all boats.
Whooter just doesn't realize his whole game has been scuttled and is flailing away trying to get the dogs off the scent. The perfect storm has consumed him personally and professionally and Fornits has become his Waterloo. Now he's like Golem roaming middle earth chasing the unattainable, which is his case, is credibility. He has none and never will have any again.
A little long winded just to say you have nothing. So far you have failed to document any lies or make any connections between TheWho and this Reuben guy. Thewho has called you on your PM which you ran away from. The famous background check that you once touted has been dropped and now all you have is that there was a TTI meeting in Chicago November of 2006 and TheWho said he was there in January 2007 (close but no cigar) and you never were able to place Reuben there at all!
I wish I could be there when Reuben gets this famous email people keep saying they are going to send.
I'll keep checking back but as Psy said you havent proved anything yet.
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Let's keep it short and go over just Whooter's lies from this thread.
Lie #1: Whooter claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1: Whooter had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Lie #2: Whooter claims to be just a "regular parent with no ties to the industry."
Truth #2: Whooter already admitted he was part of a "statistical group to assess TBS safety" that met in Chicago. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Lie #3: Whooter claims not be John Reuben.
Truth #3: whooter has contacted at least one parent from this forum and provided her the email address "[email protected]" for her to contact him "outside of Fornits" because "everyone here has an agenda to discredit programs." The email address has been verified to be that of John Reuben and is the admin email account at savingteens.org. This was proven by posting the original PM from TheWho to Concerned Parent, which TheWho subsequently altered in a quote and copped to altering it when called out.
Lie #4: RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #4: Whooter dropped this claim and went on to blame someone else for being "Concerned Parent." Interestingly enough, Whooter has actually claimed to BE RobertBruce many times and later copped to fabricating at least one "lookalike" RobertBruce login to try to impersonate him (the login he admitted to creating "for fun" was 'RobertBruce .' with a space and a period at the end).
Lie #5: Ajax13 is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #5: Ajax13 is not Concerned Parent, but Whooter clings to this meme like a life raft anyway.
Lie #6: Ajax13 AND RobertBruce are "Concerned Parent."
Truth #6: Both are provably NOT "Concerned Parent." Whooter seems to have dropped this notion now because obviously they both couldn't be "Concerned Parent" at the same time, but that simple logic didn't stop him from floating it to distract from the conversation.
Lie #7: Whooter claimed to have no criminal record when confronted.
Truth #7: Whooter had already admitted years ago, on this board, that he was "arrested several times in Boston and once in Ann Arbor Michigan."
Lie #8: Whooter claims not to have lied at all.
Truth #8: Whooter has been caught lying like a rug using only his own posts and PMs as evidence of the lies. Essentially, he lied about everything, then had to walk it all back piece by piece as he was caught again and again. Now the only thing from the above list he won't cop to is being Reuben, but considering he lied about and was proven lying about the rest of the items in this thread, his assertion is just him howling from being bitten so badly.
So, that's 8 full-fledged, lie-through-your-teeth prevarications offered by TheWho in just this single thread. People should believe him for what reason now?
Sorry, Whooter, your lying chickens have come home to roost and nobody here believes anything you say anymore. Better luck next time.
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Let's keep it short and go over just RobertBruce’s lies from this thread.
Lie #1: RobertBruce claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1: RobertBruce had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting. This was proven over RobertBruce’s denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Lie #2: RobertBruce claims to be just a "regular parent with no ties to the industry."
Truth #2: RobertBruce already admitted he was part of a "statistical group to assess TBS safety" that met in Chicago. This was proven over RobertBruce denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Lie #3: RobertBruce claims not be John Reuben.
Truth #3: RobertBruce has contacted at least one parent from this forum and provided her the email address "[email protected]" for her to contact him "outside of Fornits" because "everyone here has an agenda to discredit programs." The email address has been verified to be that of John Reuben and is the admin email account at savingteens.org. This was proven by posting the original PM from TheWho to Concerned Parent, which RobertBruce subsequently altered in a quote and copped to altering it when called out.
Lie #4: Ajax13 is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #4: RobertBruce dropped this claim and went on to blame someone else for being "Concerned Parent." Interestingly enough, RobertBruce has actually claimed to BE Thewho many times and later copped to fabricating at least one "lookalike" TheWho login to try to impersonate him (the login he admitted to creating "for fun" was TheWho.' with a space and a period at the end).
Lie #5: Ajax13 is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #5: Ajax13 is not Concerned Parent, but RobertBruce clings to this meme like a life raft anyway.
Lie #6: Ajax13 AND RobertBruce are "Concerned Parent."
Truth #6: Both are provably NOT "Concerned Parent." RobertBruce seems to have dropped this notion now because obviously they both couldn't be "Concerned Parent" at the same time, but that simple logic didn't stop him from floating it to distract from the conversation.
Lie #7: RobertBruce claimed to have no criminal record when confronted.
Truth #7: RobertBruce had already admitted years ago, on this board, that he was "arrested several times in Boston and once in Ann Arbor Michigan."
Lie #8: RobertBruce claims not to have lied at all.
Truth #8: RobertBruce has been caught lying like a rug using only his own posts and PMs as evidence of the lies. Essentially, he lied about everything, then had to walk it all back piece by piece as he was caught again and again. Now the only thing from the above list he won't cop to is being Reuben, but considering he lied about and was proven lying about the rest of the items in this thread, his assertion is just him howling from being bitten so badly.
So, that's 8 full-fledged, lie-through-your-teeth prevarications offered by RobertBruce in just this single thread. People should believe him for what reason now?
Sorry, RobertBruce, your lying chickens have come home to roost and nobody here believes anything you say anymore. Better luck next time.
The moral of the story is… without proof they are just words. Anyone can make up stories of all people you should know this, Brucie. You need to take each one and prove your case. You haven’t done that.
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Each and every accusation above has been proved beyond a reasonable doubt. All links were provided. You lied. You got caught. You got upset. End of story.
Anyway, which lies are you specifically denying now? Any you leave out will be considered uncontested and therefore admitted by you. Be specific in your denials, please.
I believe at least one link was provided for each lie you told and then your subsequent admission, proving you lied. Anyone can read the original post and follow along the links that prove you are lying when you say it's just "words." It's funny to watch you squirm like a worm under a magnifying glass though. Good luck with that.
Readers, please notice that TheWho altered my post as well, changing his name to RobertBruce's. This highlights the fact that he's willing to lie to try to destroy someone else and avoid accountability for his actions, which he demands from everyone else. Doesn't he cry a lot about "altered posts"? Why is he altering yet another post? Hmmm...
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Each and every accusation above has been proved beyond a reasonable doubt. All links were provided. You lied. You got caught. You got upset. End of story.
Anyway, which lies are you specifically denying now? Any you leave out will be considered uncontested and therefore admitted by you. Be specific in your denials, please.
I believe at least one link was provided for each lie you told and then your subsequent admission, proving you lied. Anyone can read the original post and follow along the links that prove you are lying when you say it's just "words." It's funny to watch you squirm like a worm under a magnifying glass though. Good luck with that.
Readers, please notice that TheWho altered my post as well, changing his name to RobertBruce's. This highlights the fact that he's willing to lie to try to destroy someone else and avoid accountability for his actions, which he demands from everyone else. Doesn't he cry a lot about "altered posts"? Why is he altering yet another post? Hmmm...
Well why dont you humor myself and the readers and take the first one and show us how you proved it:
Lie #1: Whooter claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1: Whooter had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
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Heck, I'll just go for all of them to save time.
Rebuttal section:
Let's keep it short and go over just Whooter's lies from this
thread.
Lie #1: Whooter claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1: Whooter had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten
and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting. This was proven
over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Whooter, in his own words, admits to the trip he was just denying. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=245433&hilit=+chicago#p245433)
Lie #2: Whooter claims to be just a "regular parent with no ties to
the industry."
Truth #2: Whooter already admitted he was part of a "statistical group to assess TBS
safety" that met in Chicago. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting
the post where he already admitted it.
TheWho admitting to being an industry player and saying TBS "is where the money's at." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1470#p245461)
Lie #3: Whooter claims not be John Reuben.
Truth #3: whooter has contacted at least one parent from this forum and provided her
the email address "[email protected]" for her to contact him "outside of Fornits"
because "everyone here has an agenda to discredit programs." The email address has
been verified to be that of John Reuben and is the admin email account at
savingteens.org. This was proven by posting the original PM from TheWho to Concerned
Parent, which TheWho subsequently altered in a quote and copped to altering it when
called out.
TheWho's PM to Concerned Parent is posted in its entirety. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29294&start=45#p351905)
Whois search for savingteens.org shows the email address Whooter provided belongs to John Reuben. (http://http://whois.domaintools.com/savingteens.org)
Lie #4: RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #4: Whooter dropped this claim and went on to blame someone else for being
"Concerned Parent." Interestingly enough, Whooter has actually claimed to BE
RobertBruce many times and later copped to fabricating at least one "lookalike"
RobertBruce login to try to impersonate him (the login he admitted to creating "for
fun" was 'RobertBruce .' with a space and a period at the end).
Whooter begins his claim that RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342#p351931)
Whooter continues to hammer at the meme "Concerned Parent is RobertBruce" without a shred of evidence to suggest that. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=15#p352016)
...and hammering it some more... (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=45#p352455)
Lie #5: Ajax13 is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #5: Ajax13 is not Concerned Parent, but Whooter clings to this meme like a life
raft anyway.
Here we have Whooter denying being himself, posting as "Dick Cheney" claiming Ajax13 and not RobertBruce "fabricated the PM." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=75#p352505)
Lie #6: Ajax13 AND RobertBruce are "Concerned Parent."
Truth #6: Both are provably NOT "Concerned Parent." Whooter seems to have dropped
this notion now because obviously they both couldn't be "Concerned Parent" at the same
time, but that simple logic didn't stop him from floating it to distract from the
conversation.
Here Whooter claims both RobertBruce and Ajax13 are "Concerned Parent." Now he's veering all over the place grasping at straws with no proof. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=75#p352499)
Lie #7: Whooter claimed to have no criminal record when
confronted.
Truth #7: Whooter had already admitted years ago, on this board, that he was "arrested
several times in Boston and once in Ann Arbor Michigan."
Whooter admitting to being arrested "many times in Boston" and elsewhere. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23338&p=284895&hilit=+arrest#p284895)
Lie #8: Whooter claims not to have lied at all.
Truth #8: Whooter has been caught lying like a rug using only his own posts and PMs as
evidence of the lies. Essentially, he lied about everything, then had to walk it all
back piece by piece as he was caught again and again. Now the only thing from the
above list he won't cop to is being Reuben, but considering he lied about and was
proven lying about the rest of the items in this thread, his assertion is just him
howling from being bitten so badly.
No link required, see above. ; )
So, that's 8 full-fledged, lie-through-your-teeth prevarications
offered by TheWho in just this single thread. People should believe him for what
reason now?
Sorry, Whooter, your lying chickens have come home to roost and nobody here believes
anything you say anymore. Better luck next time.
Whooter has been fully owned yet again and busted out lying through his teeth yet
again. Whooter, you better try something else, like going back to trolling with
endless emoticons to slow the page loading, because you are SO BUSTED in YOUR OWN WORDS
and you just can't hide anymore. Your legacy here has cought up to you and just won't
go away. Can't escape those facts, son.
-
Well why dont you humor myself and the readers and take the first one and show us how you proved it:
Lie #1: Whooter claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1: Whooter had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Nice try. Now stick with the first question:
You say that I claim I never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting... First When was I asked this question and second what was my answer. How did you conclude that I lied about anything?
-
Well why dont you humor myself and the readers and take the first one and show us how you proved it:
Lie #1: Whooter claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1: Whooter had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Nice try. Now stick with the first question:
You say that I claim I never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting... First When was I asked this question and second what was my answer. How did you conclude that I lied about anything?
Sure, I'll dumb it down for you just this once.
Whooter adamantly denying he was ever in Chicago, of course, a confirmed lie. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29294&start=30#p351878)
You say both? You could probably document this Reuben guy as being there, but how do you place me there? You say you have documented evidence. Evidence would mean I was posting from Chicago at the same time this meeting took place. That may raise some eyebrows I would say. But you see you dont have that evidence because I wasnt there.
Underlined emphasis added by me...
Well, you just denied being there in that post. But of course, as we all know, you were lying and exposed for it. Here's the link where you admitted it two years ago:
Whooter, in his own words, admits to the trip he was just denying. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=245433&hilit=+chicago#p245433)
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first.
Again, you are a proven liar. We all know you do it, so why bother entertaining any more of your fallacious posts? These are just quotes of you denying what you already said. How dumb can you really be to think we wouldn't notice these lies???
-
Here I will refresh your memory:
]you both took a trip to Chicago to meet with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen just before STICC was launched.
You say both? You could probably document this Reuben guy as being there, but how do you place me there? You say you have documented evidence. Evidence would mean I was posting from Chicago at the same time this meeting took place. That may raise some eyebrows I would say. But you see you dont have that evidence because I wasnt there.
So you said I was there just before STICC was launched. STICC was launched in April of 2004. You also said I was with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen. Do you care to try to deny you said this?
In February of 2007 I wrote:
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first. We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently. Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=245433&hilit=+chicago#p245433)
So where is the lie?
-
So you see you tried to place me in Chicago at some meeting before STICCs was Launched in April of 2004. My post says I was in Chicago in January 2007. So you off by almost 3 years.
So there was no lie there....... and actually you lied because you never proved that Woodbury, Reuben and the others were there also. But I will save that for another time.
If you are satisfied we can move to the next one.
-
Right here:
In 2009 You said, and I quote:
"...I wasnt there."
Lying THEN or lying NOW?
This is like shooting fish in a barrel.
-
Right here:
In 2009 You said, and I quote:
"...I wasnt there."
Lying THEN or lying NOW?
This is like shooting fish in a barrel.
Guest said: you both took a trip to Chicago to meet with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen just before STICC was launched.
You asked if I was there just before STICCs was launched and... "I wasnt there". I said it again. I was there in 2007. Can you find a post that places me there before just before April 2004?
-
Let me know when you want to go to #2
-
Squirm, squirm. Wiggle, wiggle! Obviously STICC was incorporated in 2004, but the board of directors, etc. was put together in 2007 and the business was really launched then. You're trying to play semantics, but your faiing (flailing?).
Of course, this has nothing to do with the context of your post where you claimed never to have been in Chicago. FAIL. Try again.
-
Squirm, squirm. Wiggle, wiggle! Obviously STICC was incorporated in 2004, but the board of directors, etc. was put together in 2007 and the business was really launched then. You're trying to play semantics, but your faiing (flailing?).
Of course, this has nothing to do with the context of your post where you claimed never to have been in Chicago. FAIL. Try again.
the post said " just before STICCs was launched"... I said "I wasnt there" and my post proves that. Now if you want to call someone a liar you need to place me there and provide evidence.
The readers can wait. If you dont have the evidence to place me there then just say so, I wont rub it in and we can move on to #2.
-
Already done. You are proven to be a liar. When I said "launched" I meant really getting down to business by adding the Board of Advisors and Directors, not the incorporation date. If I meant "incorporated" I would have said so. Being from the business world, I would have thought you knew that businesses can be incorporated for years before they launch. Some never do. I guess I shouldn't assume you know anything at all and make it all really simple for you.
So let's clear up the semantics: The real launch of STICC was late December 2006, not coincidentally, right after the meeting in Chicago. You admitted on February 8 of 2007 you were there "about a month ago" (which could easily mean "six weeks") which was, again, not coincidentally, right after the big meeting you had to get the board together, December, 2006. December, 2006 is when Goldberg and Woodbury, et al came on board for STICC. Soon after, they began placing children in earnest.
-
The real launch of STICC was late December 2006
Show the readers a link to the announcement of this meeting or where this launch is documented for December 2006. The STICC website states it as April 2004. If you have other information we would like to see it.
-
The real launch of STICC was late December 2006
Show the readers a link to the announcement of this meeting or where this launch is documented for December 2006. The STICC website states it as April 2004. If you have other information we would like to see it.
Well, that's the INCORPORATION DATE, but the launch was when they first started trying to place or placing kids. I think we can agree on that, can't we? What business has a grand opening on their incorporation date? That's just plain silly.
-
I hope TheWho isn't trying to argue STICC was up and running in 2004 is he? The website wasn't even roughed in until 2005. They started placing kids in late 2006.
-
The real launch of STICC was late December 2006
Show the readers a link to the announcement of this meeting or where this launch is documented for December 2006. The STICC website states it as April 2004. If you have other information we would like to see it.
Well, that's the INCORPORATION DATE, but the launch was when they first started trying to place or placing kids. I think we can agree on that, can't we? What business has a grand opening on their incorporation date? That's just plain silly.
So what we have as a date is a launch date of April 2004. Here is the link.
http://http://www.savingteens.org/
If you have another date just toss up the link and we can all take a look at it. If you are goiong to call someone a liar you need to atleast provide your source to back you up.
-
So we examined the first one on your list and you cant even establish a link to your source. How do you expect us to believe any of the others are lies?
You need to show thewho lied using some sort of document either posts or link to outside sources. You havent done this yet.
-
Well why dont you humor myself and the readers and take the first one and show us how you proved it:
Lie #1: Whooter claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1: Whooter had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Nice try. Now stick with the first question:
You say that I claim I never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting... First When was I asked this question and second what was my answer. How did you conclude that I lied about anything?
Sure, I'll dumb it down for you just this once.
Whooter adamantly denying he was ever in Chicago, of course, a confirmed lie. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29294&start=30#p351878)
You say both? You could probably document this Reuben guy as being there, but how do you place me there? You say you have documented evidence. Evidence would mean I was posting from Chicago at the same time this meeting took place. That may raise some eyebrows I would say. But you see you dont have that evidence because I wasnt there.
Underlined emphasis added by me...
Well, you just denied being there in that post. But of course, as we all know, you were lying and exposed for it. Here's the link where you admitted it two years ago:
Whooter, in his own words, admits to the trip he was just denying. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=245433&hilit=+chicago#p245433)
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first.
Again, you are a proven liar. We all know you do it, so why bother entertaining any more of your fallacious posts? These are just quotes of you denying what you already said. How dumb can you really be to think we wouldn't notice these lies???
Already done. In your own words you denied being in Chicago and in your own words admitted it. It's not that deep.
Funny you're quoting STICC's website to verify their "launch date." Did you notice the website wasn't even prepared or launched until a year later? So, what you're saying is if I want to be a car dealer and I incorporate to become one, my launch date or "Grand Opening" will be the same day, even though I have no dealership or any cars? That makes no sense. It's clear STICC got a rolling start with incorporation in 2004, website in 2005 and first placement solicitation in late 2006. Those are undisputed facts.
Anyway, first you denied going to Chicago, then you admitted it. One of those times you had to be lying.
As far as STICC's launch date, I was referring to when they created the Board of Advisors and went after their first placement. That was late 2006. STICC first solicited kids on August 28th, 2006, asking people if they wanted to be the first placed kid. The Board was formed in late 2006 and added to the website December 30th, 2006, right after the meeting in Chicago. That's a proven fact. Denying it only makes you look worse, if that's possible.
In any case, you have stopped disputing that you did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting, now you're only disputing the phrase "launch date" as a last ditch effort, but you are failing as usual. I know what I meant when I said it and I clarified for you. I consider the "launch date" to be the first earnest effort to drum up business. If you don't agree, oh well. That issue is closed. I accused you of going to Chicago in late December, 2006. You denied it. Then you were proved to be lying in your own words.
-
As far as STICC's launch date, I was referring to when they created the Board of Advisors and went after their first placement. That was late 2006. STICC first solicited kids on August 28th, 2006, asking people if they wanted to be the first placed kid. The Board was formed in late 2006 and added to the website December 30th, 2006, right after the meeting in Chicago. That's a proven fact. Denying it only makes you look worse, if that's possible.
See now thats not too bad. All you need to do is provide a link to where you got your dates from and show the meeting was in Chicago on or around January 2007 when my post says I was there.
I provided the link to my post showing I was in Chicago in January 2007 and that STICCs started in April of 2004. So there is no lie so far.
So show us where you got your dates from (provide a link) and we can go from there and compare timelines.
-
You cant even prove you first lie, ajax13. How many did you put up there like 8? lol You are not fairing too well. It appears you relied on other peoples accounts and you have no facts to back you up. Your friends left you fighting a lost cause. Go ask Bruce for some back-up info.
Remember.. the next time you call someone a liar make sure you have your facts straight. How stupid do you feel now?
-
Heck, I'll just go for all of them to save time.
Rebuttal section:
Let's keep it short and go over just Whooter's lies from this
thread.
Lie #1: Whooter claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1: Whooter had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten
and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting. This was proven
over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Whooter, in his own words, admits to the trip he was just denying. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=245433&hilit=+chicago#p245433)
Lie #2: Whooter claims to be just a "regular parent with no ties to
the industry."
Truth #2: Whooter already admitted he was part of a "statistical group to assess TBS
safety" that met in Chicago. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting
the post where he already admitted it.
TheWho admitting to being an industry player and saying TBS "is where the money's at." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1470#p245461)
Lie #3: Whooter claims not be John Reuben.
Truth #3: whooter has contacted at least one parent from this forum and provided her
the email address "[email protected]" for her to contact him "outside of Fornits"
because "everyone here has an agenda to discredit programs." The email address has
been verified to be that of John Reuben and is the admin email account at
savingteens.org. This was proven by posting the original PM from TheWho to Concerned
Parent, which TheWho subsequently altered in a quote and copped to altering it when
called out.
TheWho's PM to Concerned Parent is posted in its entirety. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29294&start=45#p351905)
Whois search for savingteens.org shows the email address Whooter provided belongs to John Reuben. (http://http://whois.domaintools.com/savingteens.org)
Lie #4: RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #4: Whooter dropped this claim and went on to blame someone else for being
"Concerned Parent." Interestingly enough, Whooter has actually claimed to BE
RobertBruce many times and later copped to fabricating at least one "lookalike"
RobertBruce login to try to impersonate him (the login he admitted to creating "for
fun" was 'RobertBruce .' with a space and a period at the end).
Whooter begins his claim that RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342#p351931)
Whooter continues to hammer at the meme "Concerned Parent is RobertBruce" without a shred of evidence to suggest that. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=15#p352016)
...and hammering it some more... (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=45#p352455)
Lie #5: Ajax13 is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #5: Ajax13 is not Concerned Parent, but Whooter clings to this meme like a life
raft anyway.
Here we have Whooter denying being himself, posting as "Dick Cheney" claiming Ajax13 and not RobertBruce "fabricated the PM." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=75#p352505)
Lie #6: Ajax13 AND RobertBruce are "Concerned Parent."
Truth #6: Both are provably NOT "Concerned Parent." Whooter seems to have dropped
this notion now because obviously they both couldn't be "Concerned Parent" at the same
time, but that simple logic didn't stop him from floating it to distract from the
conversation.
Here Whooter claims both RobertBruce and Ajax13 are "Concerned Parent." Now he's veering all over the place grasping at straws with no proof. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=75#p352499)
Lie #7: Whooter claimed to have no criminal record when
confronted.
Truth #7: Whooter had already admitted years ago, on this board, that he was "arrested
several times in Boston and once in Ann Arbor Michigan."
Whooter admitting to being arrested "many times in Boston" and elsewhere. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23338&p=284895&hilit=+arrest#p284895)
Lie #8: Whooter claims not to have lied at all.
Truth #8: Whooter has been caught lying like a rug using only his own posts and PMs as
evidence of the lies. Essentially, he lied about everything, then had to walk it all
back piece by piece as he was caught again and again. Now the only thing from the
above list he won't cop to is being Reuben, but considering he lied about and was
proven lying about the rest of the items in this thread, his assertion is just him
howling from being bitten so badly.
No link required, see above. ; )
So, that's 8 full-fledged, lie-through-your-teeth prevarications
offered by TheWho in just this single thread. People should believe him for what
reason now?
Sorry, Whooter, your lying chickens have come home to roost and nobody here believes
anything you say anymore. Better luck next time.
Whooter has been fully owned yet again and busted out lying through his teeth yet
again. Whooter, you better try something else, like going back to trolling with
endless emoticons to slow the page loading, because you are SO BUSTED in YOUR OWN WORDS
and you just can't hide anymore. Your legacy here has cought up to you and just won't
go away. Can't escape those facts, son.
There it is, again, with links. First you claim you never went to Chicago and demanded proof that you did. You then were supplied with a quote from your own post with a link to it showing you did indeed go to Chicago and you were very proud of it as well. You can see the quotes and links above. Right...up...there...again.
I think anybody reading this post can see quite clearly that the statements above are factually true, based on your own words. You said one thing, then you said the opposite. That's called "lying" because the statements "I wasn't there" and "I was there," of which you uttered both (see links above), are mutually exclusive. Do you understand the difference between "I was there" and "I wasn't there"? If not, we'll just move on without you.
-
All you showed was the link to my post that says I was in Chicago. We all know this. But where is the link that says I was lying?
Not doing to well there Ajax13. Try to tie it together for us... it doesnt any lies.
-
Here is the first one you gave us (broken down)... where is the lie in this?
you both took a trip to Chicago to meet with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen just before STICC was launched.
You say both? You could probably document this Reuben guy as being there, but how do you place me there? You say you have documented evidence. Evidence would mean I was posting from Chicago at the same time this meeting took place. That may raise some eyebrows I would say. But you see you dont have that evidence because I wasnt there.
So you said I was there just before STICC was launched. STICC was launched in April of 2004. You also said I was with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen. Do you care to try to deny you said this?
In February of 2007 I wrote:
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first. We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently. Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=245433&hilit=+chicago#p245433)
So where is the lie?
-
I love this quote from TheWho, a "regular parent with no ties to the industry."
This sounds like a parent totally uninvolved in the Troubled Teen Industry, doesn't it? (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1470#p245461)
Oh no no no Cindy, you claimed there was a "long debate" and that it was decided that "we" were only going to look at TBS's as you define them.
Who specifically is "we"?
The debate was long, Bob... many wanted to start with "Wilderness data" and I argued that the real money was in the TBS industry, so lets start there,* although wilderness is usually the inital phase of any decent TBS. So we went round and round....you, Bob have been a key player in collecting and presenting data on the entire industry and I have been focusing on small segments at a time.
I dont want to put names out there, people want to be anon's.
*emphasis added by me
Isn't this what every, ordinary person in your neighborhood does? Travel to Chicago for TTI meetings to assess safety of programs and alert other TTI players as to "where the money's at"?
I think Whooter is snagged in another big problem that really wrecks his credibility. The image he tries to portray here as "just a regular parent" doesn't make sense in light of his quotation above, does it? The readers I think have another piece of solid evidence to consider in that one. No way does your average, everyday parent do what he did. Obviously only those with a financial stake in the TTI would be worried about "where the money's at"" at meeting in a city 1200 miles from home with a bunch of other, uninterested, uninvolved "regular parents." That flat-out fails even the smell test.
-
No, Whooter, here's what I gave you. I think you are confusing anons. Let's stick to what I've been saying.
Below is my statement, with links, proving many lies you told. You can read it again if you need to. It's directly below.
Heck, I'll just go for all of them to save time.
Rebuttal section:
Let's keep it short and go over just Whooter's lies from this
thread.
Lie #1: Whooter claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1: Whooter had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten
and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting. This was proven
over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Whooter, in his own words, admits to the trip he was just denying. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=245433&hilit=+chicago#p245433)
Lie #2: Whooter claims to be just a "regular parent with no ties to
the industry."
Truth #2: Whooter already admitted he was part of a "statistical group to assess TBS
safety" that met in Chicago. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting
the post where he already admitted it.
TheWho admitting to being an industry player and saying TBS "is where the money's at." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1470#p245461)
Lie #3: Whooter claims not be John Reuben.
Truth #3: whooter has contacted at least one parent from this forum and provided her
the email address "[email protected]" for her to contact him "outside of Fornits"
because "everyone here has an agenda to discredit programs." The email address has
been verified to be that of John Reuben and is the admin email account at
savingteens.org. This was proven by posting the original PM from TheWho to Concerned
Parent, which TheWho subsequently altered in a quote and copped to altering it when
called out.
TheWho's PM to Concerned Parent is posted in its entirety. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29294&start=45#p351905)
Whois search for savingteens.org shows the email address Whooter provided belongs to John Reuben. (http://http://whois.domaintools.com/savingteens.org)
Lie #4: RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #4: Whooter dropped this claim and went on to blame someone else for being
"Concerned Parent." Interestingly enough, Whooter has actually claimed to BE
RobertBruce many times and later copped to fabricating at least one "lookalike"
RobertBruce login to try to impersonate him (the login he admitted to creating "for
fun" was 'RobertBruce .' with a space and a period at the end).
Whooter begins his claim that RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342#p351931)
Whooter continues to hammer at the meme "Concerned Parent is RobertBruce" without a shred of evidence to suggest that. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=15#p352016)
...and hammering it some more... (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=45#p352455)
Lie #5: Ajax13 is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #5: Ajax13 is not Concerned Parent, but Whooter clings to this meme like a life
raft anyway.
Here we have Whooter denying being himself, posting as "Dick Cheney" claiming Ajax13 and not RobertBruce "fabricated the PM." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=75#p352505)
Lie #6: Ajax13 AND RobertBruce are "Concerned Parent."
Truth #6: Both are provably NOT "Concerned Parent." Whooter seems to have dropped
this notion now because obviously they both couldn't be "Concerned Parent" at the same
time, but that simple logic didn't stop him from floating it to distract from the
conversation.
Here Whooter claims both RobertBruce and Ajax13 are "Concerned Parent." Now he's veering all over the place grasping at straws with no proof. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=75#p352499)
Lie #7: Whooter claimed to have no criminal record when
confronted.
Truth #7: Whooter had already admitted years ago, on this board, that he was "arrested
several times in Boston and once in Ann Arbor Michigan."
Whooter admitting to being arrested "many times in Boston" and elsewhere. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23338&p=284895&hilit=+arrest#p284895)
Lie #8: Whooter claims not to have lied at all.
Truth #8: Whooter has been caught lying like a rug using only his own posts and PMs as
evidence of the lies. Essentially, he lied about everything, then had to walk it all
back piece by piece as he was caught again and again. Now the only thing from the
above list he won't cop to is being Reuben, but considering he lied about and was
proven lying about the rest of the items in this thread, his assertion is just him
howling from being bitten so badly.
No link required, see above. ; )
So, that's 8 full-fledged, lie-through-your-teeth prevarications
offered by TheWho in just this single thread. People should believe him for what
reason now?
Sorry, Whooter, your lying chickens have come home to roost and nobody here believes
anything you say anymore. Better luck next time.
Whooter has been fully owned yet again and busted out lying through his teeth yet
again. Whooter, you better try something else, like going back to trolling with
endless emoticons to slow the page loading, because you are SO BUSTED in YOUR OWN WORDS
and you just can't hide anymore. Your legacy here has cought up to you and just won't
go away. Can't escape those facts, son.
There it is, again, with links. First you claim you never went to Chicago and demanded proof that you did. You then were supplied with a quote from your own post with a link to it showing you did indeed go to Chicago and you were very proud of it as well. You can see the quotes and links above. Right...up...there...again.
I think anybody reading this post can see quite clearly that the statements above are factually true, based on your own words. You said one thing, then you said the opposite. That's called "lying" because the statements "I wasn't there" and "I was there," of which you uttered both (see links above), are mutually exclusive. Do you understand the difference between "I was there" and "I wasn't there"? If not, we'll just move on without you.
Pretty clear, again.
Do you understand the difference between "I was there" and "I wasn't there"? If not, we'll just move on without you.
Just repeating yourself isn't somehow going to change the fact that you admitted and denied going to Chicago. One was a lie by definition. You're not getting any traction with your repetition. It's as invalid the tenth time as the first. But, then again, it's what you do. The only issue is that not even you believe what you're saying and that's a sad way to be.
That expresses a deep, deep, level of frustration and, I personally believe, some sort of malignant narcissism where you somehow believe people must believe what you say because you are saying it. News for you, jack: NOBODY believes what you say. And that's a shame for you, but you created this problem by constantly lying and forgetting when and to whom you've lied, thusly getting caught lying all the time. Why are you mad at other people for just pointing it out? Geez.
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Exactly, STICC's was Launched in April of 2007 (I provided you a link) and I was there in January of 2007 (I provided a link). The post inwhich you stated I lied indicated that I was there prior to the launch of STICCS, which as you can see by the time line is not true.
Where is the lie?
You can continue to avoid the facts by posting another long post, Ajax13, or you can provide the readers with the steps of the lie you claim I made.
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Look I think I understand what is happening.
Ajax13,I understand that you need to save face in front of all the other regulars here. But I pushed this issue because I wanted to point out that you don’t have any facts. Your pushing lots of words out there with no back up. You may have relied on others a little too much and got burned but that is a lesson for you. Psy has read them all, also, and agrees there isn’t anything there. I picked the first one on your list and you couldn’t even provide a link backing up a single discrepancy.
You can move on patting yourself on the back and selling you 8 lies, but I think we understand each other.
If at some point you want to go thru them one by one let me know.
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Sure, it's right here where I left it. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=120#p352625)
I think most people have already read it though. Not sure how you keep missing it. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=120#p352625) :roflmao:
In case nobody cares enough to tell you about it, Whooter, you're showing very, very poorly today. "The tougher the truth to tell, the truer the friend that tells it." Remember that, Whooter, because you are making a complete ass of yourself and auguring yourself deeper into the rhetorical turf. I care about you and hate to see you harming yourself like this. Take a seat!
Once more, I'm not Ajax13, but it's clear he must make you feel very small because you are lashing out at him even though I've explained repeatedly I am not he. That guy really got your goat.
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Exactly, STICC's was Launched in April of 2007 (I provided you a link) and I was there in January of 2007 (I provided a link). The post inwhich you stated I lied indicated that I was there prior to the launch of STICCS, which as you can see by the time line is not true.
Where is the lie?
You can continue to avoid the facts by posting another long post, Ajax13, or you can provide the readers with the steps of the lie you claim I made.
"STICC's was Launched in April of 2007 (I provided you a link)". I think you are making this up, Whooter. Show me the link you provided that STICC was launched in April, 2007. You are getting very desperate!
Post the link or you're lying again.
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Exactly, STICC's was Launched in April of 2007 (I provided you a link) and I was there in January of 2007 (I provided a link). The post inwhich you stated I lied indicated that I was there prior to the launch of STICCS, which as you can see by the time line is not true.
Where is the lie?
You can continue to avoid the facts by posting another long post, Ajax13, or you can provide the readers with the steps of the lie you claim I made.
"STICC's was Launched in April of 2007 (I provided you a link)". I think you are making this up, Whooter. Show me the link you provided that STICC was launched in April, 2007. You are getting very desperate!
Post the link or you're lying again.
AND he's trying to say now that January 2007 isn't BEFORE April 2007?? Wow this guy is so desperate he can't even see he just PROVED the point he was trying to DISCREDIT. Stunning! Here I am saying he lies so much he loses track of his lies and he does it ON CUE! Oh, how ironic.
I'f Whooter can provide the link where he previously stated STICC was launched in April 2007 and that January 2007 in NOT BEFORE April 2007, I'll just quit! Oh, the irony...
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Very entertaining stuff.
I especially love how The Who will reply as a guest, at first talking about himself in the third person and then not realizing he is shilling for himself, start replying in the first person in the same post. Which reveals it was him all the time.
After reading all these threads and the threads before them, I see a lot of compelling evidence that The Who is John Reuben. Some of the evidence might not be backed up by the most solid of evidence, but much of it is backed up by enough evidence to make the weaker arguments stronger and believable.
If The Who was arrested in both Boston and Ann Arbor during the same time frames, that would be get most people to believe the two are likely one and the same as the two locations are geographically distant enough to make a coincidence less likely. Then add in the PM from The Who to Concerned Parent, which I believe was authentic, and the email address given is the same for John Rueben... These two connections, unlikely to be mere coincidence, compel me to believe the The Who and John Reuben are one and the same. Add to this the fact that The Who posts only pro-program messages on a site that is clearly 98% anti-program, and that John Rueben would also be a pro-program, that gives another connection. Not that everyone who posts in favor of the programs are all the same person, but their numbers are very limited even if their posts are not. And considering how often The Who trolls this site, that 2% pro-program could well be mostly him. As he posts as Guest more often than he posts as The Who. And most, of not all pro-program posts are by Guest.
On that same point, The Who doesn't post as himself as often as would seem reasonable for someone with a Fornits account and an easy to remember name. I post exclusively as RMA Survivor. I have found no reason why I would need to post anything anonymously as a Guest, or to have a second screen name for myself except to hide who I am, or to pretend to be someone else. And considering how often The Who posts as someone else, or as Guest, in an effort to make it sound like there are many people arguing his points, in his favor, when in fact it is just him, suggests he is deceitful. And deceit and lying go hand in hand in my opinion.
The Who has admitted to doing damage to property. As an adult in college. So whereas he sends his kid, or kids to a program, it is clear he takes no responsibility for their actions since he laughs off his own.
The Who also doesn't answer direct questions. I read thread after thread and saw him retreat, redirect and change topics, but not answer questions directly. When a question is asked directly, he usually responds with wanting proof rather than simply giving an answer. Or an answer followed by asking what proof brought about the allegations. Most parents who ask their kids a simple and direct question and don't get back a simple and direct answer become very suspicious. "Did you go to school today?" "Why do you ask?" "Because I got a call from someone saying they thought they saw you at the mall during school hours." "How do you know they were telling you the truth? Did they show you video of me at the mall with a time and date stamp? How do you know you can trust them? How do I know you aren't lying to me and just saying I was at the mall to see if I admit I was there so you can punish me?" What parent wouldn't become suspicious? What parents wouldn't just flat out assume the kid was there and is afraid to admit it?
Or another situation. "Where did you get those new shoes? Did you steal them?" "Why would you think that?" (Not an answer) "Because they look expensive, I give you no allowance, you have no source of income and I didn't buy them for you." "Maybe someone gave them to me." (Not an answer) "Who gave them to you?" "I said maybe someone did. (Not an answer) "Did someone give them to you, yes or no?" "Can you prove someone didn't give them to me?" (Wants proof of wrong doing before answering the question)
This is the sort of bloated argument The Who gives to simple and direct questions. The question pertaining to whether he attended a meeting in January 2007 or November/December 2006. (Which by the way, is not a year apart, only 30 to 40 days). The Who wrote in a February 8, 2007 message that he was in Chicago about a month prior. Not precisely a month prior, but about a month. It is therefore reasonable to conclude that A. About a month could be as far back as December 2006 when there is mention made of another similar meeting being held in Chicago. B. That The Who, rather than say he was not there, says he only said a month before. I didn't read where he said he was not there in December, only that it couldn't be proven because he said a month before, which he says would be January 2007, not December 2006. But he didn't say whether he was there or not. But at the same time, has no proof there was a similar meeting being held in January, which is unlikely. Thus, if there was only one meeting--which I believe--and it was held in November/December 2006,-- which I also believe-- then The Who is claiming to have been at a similar event with similar topics a month later when nobody was there. Or-- and this seems more likely-- The only event was in November/December 2006, The Who was there, there was no similar meeting in January 2007 (about a month later) which I believe, and though he expects someone to prove he was there, it seems to me the burden would be on him to prove he was there in January. Otherwise, he has admitted to being there in the same general time frame. But he doesn't admit, or deny being there in November/December. When confronted with a direct accusation, rather than give a simple, direct and honest answer, he changes the subject, redirects and asks for proof. Because he proved he was there by his own admission. He just didn't prove he was there in January and not a month before in November/December. And this is why it is hard, for me at least, to believe him. He just doesn't answer questions.
So for me, there's enough evidence to conclude that The Who and John Reuben are one and the same. This isn't a court of law. I don't need to see FBI records, arrest records or have admins sift through endless posts looking for IP addresses to convince me of things. Sometimes I just need to see enough material to make a convincing argument and then...just see how the accused reacts. If the accused comes off with a convincing response, sounds innocent, I can then ask for more solid proof. If the accused sounds like a kid caught who gives circle-logic arguments and won't look you in the eye and give a clear answer, that says more to me than any evidence, circumstantial or not would. The Who has been caught squirming. He has not been caught replying directly. He comes off as deceitful, manipulating the argument, changing the topic, but not answering. To me this wasn't a question of whether The Who lies. I couldn't care less. It's whether he is John Reuben. And I think he is. And if he takes more than one more thread to answer the questions put forth, then he is just squirming so more. I think the burden is now on him to provide some proof he is not John Reuben.
Oh, and I wish he'd knock off posting as Guest or some other person and stick with one name. It's a lie to pretend to be someone you are not.
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Very entertaining stuff.
I especially love how The Who will reply as a guest, at first talking about himself in the third person and then not realizing he is shilling for himself, start replying in the first person in the same post. Which reveals it was him all the time.
You must have also noticed that the OP was replying as a guest also and replying to his own posts. This guest would make up stories and information as he went along i.e.
So let's clear up the semantics: The real launch of STICC was late December 2006, not coincidentally, right after the meeting in Chicago. You admitted on February 8 of 2007 you were there "about a month ago" (which could easily mean "six weeks") which was, again, not coincidentally, right after the big meeting you had to get the board together, December, 2006. December, 2006 is when Goldberg and Woodbury, et al came on board for STICC. Soon after, they began placing children in earnest.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=352615&sid=b4511d42e74ad15f8763b311ae9303c6&sid=b4511d42e74ad15f8763b311ae9303c6#p352615)
As far as STICC's launch date, I was referring to when they created the Board of Advisors and went after their first placement. That was late 2006. STICC first solicited kids on August 28th, 2006, asking people if they wanted to be the first placed kid. The Board was formed in late 2006 and added to the website December 30th, 2006, right after the meeting in Chicago. That's a proven fact. Denying it only makes you look worse, if that's possible.
Where was the link to back up his information? Did you ever wonder about this?
The Who also doesn't answer direct questions.
If you are referring to the first of the 8 questions I was trying to show that the guest avoided putting up the evidence which showed I lied. The only link he provided was my own post. He never posted the question which lead up to that post. Were you not curious about this also? The guest was avoiding my direct question. I asked him to provide the link that supports his thoughts that I lied and all he could come up with was my own post.
Here is what I believe the guest was referring to:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you both took a trip to Chicago to meet with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen just before STICC was launched.
You say both? You could probably document this Reuben guy as being there, but how do you place me there? You say you have documented evidence. Evidence would mean I was posting from Chicago at the same time this meeting took place. That may raise some eyebrows I would say. But you see you dont have that evidence because I wasnt there.
So you said I was there just before STICC was launched. STICC was launched in April of 2004. You also said I was with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen. Do you care to try to deny you said this?
In February of 2007 I wrote:
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first. We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently. Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=245433&hilit=+chicago#p245433)
So where is the lie?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After reading that how can anyone conclude that there is a lie?
So you see RMA survivor the OP/guest was not being truthful even on his first question (and I knew that) and when pressured for a link time and time again he avoided the request and reverted back to posting the 8 lies to avoid exposing the fact that he made them up.
If logging in under my user name makes a difference I will log in and respond to those who are interested in the truth and are logged in also. I would suggest a new thread.
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Good post, RMA. I think you are relatively dispassionate about TheWho and what he does here. Your analysis of his rhetorical habits was spot on. When he was accused of going to Chicago for a TTI meeting, he could have said "Yes, I went to Chicago, but not when you said" or "So what?" But he didn't. He lied and said he was never there. When that was proven to be a lie by posting his own words, he went off on a tangent trying to have other people prove he was in a meeting and with whom, which is ridiculous.
The preponderance of the evidence shows he lies a lot about a lot of things and he likely is John Reuben. The circumstantial evidence is overwhelming, the direct witness (TheWho) was proven to have been involved in TTI meetings and advising his peers "where the real money is, the TBS industry." These, again, are his own words, so he can't deny the fact. Coupled with the fact he has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt, much less reasonable doubt or the preponderance of the evidence, to be an unmitigated liar closes the book on him. Forever. No matter how he backpedals now or how he tries to walk back what he said or how he tries to shift the focus, an impressive case with has been compiled with copious solid evidence.
We still haven't really discussed this part yet, but let's begin to examine when the Board of Advisors was formed at STICC and added to the website. We already established that STICC started fishing for its first placement in August, 2006. We already established that TheWho was at a TTI meeting in Chicago in December, 2006.
What I haven't yet revealed is that STICC's website was updated on December 30th, 2006 and in that update, the Board of Advisors was announced and posted on the website for the first time. This was a mere week after TheWho had admittedly met TTI players in Chicago. So it's pretty clear that he went to this IECA "professional development seminar" in December of 2006 in order to "develop professionally," i.e. establish a network whereby he could achieve his first placement with STICC and make some insider connections. So to speak, to "launch" his business, STICC, which until that time had failed to get off the ground (make a placement) in nearly four months of trying since STICC was awarded Department of Juvenile Justice funding to place state-mandated children into Aspen Programs.
The evidence is simply overwhelming.
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STICC was launched in April of 2004.
Yesterday you said "April 2007" and claimed you "provided a link." Where's that link?
I said STICC was launched (began functioning in earnest rather than just on paper) in late 2006 and I laid out a complete case proving this is actually when STICC really began as a business, having nothing to do with the incorporation date. STICC didn't solicit its first placement until 3 and 1/2 YEARS after it incorporated. That issue is closed.
Now provide the link you said you provided before showing STICC launched in April 200t as you claimed yesterday. Or was that a lie too? Post the link or admit the lie.
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Sorry, typo in last post: STICC didn't solicit its first placement until TWO and ONE HALF years after it incorporated. It LAUNCHED (soicited a placement) in late 2006.
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Wow, this is great research. Are we now to believe that the Board being formed right after the meeting is coincidence too? I don't believe that at all. This is another nail in the TheWho's coffin. When you look at the totality of the evidence presented, it makes a clear and simple conclusion: TheWho is a liar. It also makes a very strong case that he is John Reuben of STICC. There are way too many details that line up perfectly for TheWho to try to claim this is mere coincidence.
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FUCK
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As far as STICC's launch date, I was referring to when they created the Board of Advisors and went after their first placement. That was late 2006. STICC first solicited kids on August 28th, 2006, asking people if they wanted to be the first placed kid. The Board was formed in late 2006 and added to the website December 30th, 2006, right after the meeting in Chicago. That's a proven fact. Denying it only makes you look worse, if that's possible.
Where was the link to back up his information? Did you ever wonder about this?
No, I didn't wonder. I just looked it up. It's pretty simple to do. Do you think, even after all of the bear traps you stepped in in this thread, Whooter, that I would post anything without a source? Not smart, Whooter. See, I post things knowing you will try to claim they are "lies." I let you step in it, as you always do, then I provide the link showing it was actually you lying and not me. I'm surprised you haven't detected a this pattern yet. Lazy, sloppy work on your part, Whooter.
Are you presently denying STICC made it's first push to get a kid for placement in August, 2006?
Are you presently denying that the Board of Advisors was added to STICC's website on December 30th, 2006?
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FUCK
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Maybe i'm slow. I'm scratching my head still trying to figure out what the smoking gun here. Can anybody succinctly explain to the stupid ones here such as myself what exactly connects TheWho to this Reuben guy.
I havent seen it yet either. There are lots of words, dates and posts, but like RMA Survivor said very little evidence or links to outside sources. Maybe Concerned Parent will allow his post to be validated. That would be the smoking gun.
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Sure, it's right here where I left it. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=120#p352625)
I think most people have already read it though. Not sure how you keep missing it. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=120#p352625) :roflmao:
In case nobody cares enough to tell you about it, Whooter, you're showing very, very poorly today. "The tougher the truth to tell, the truer the friend that tells it." Remember that, Whooter, because you are making a complete ass of yourself and auguring yourself deeper into the rhetorical turf. I care about you and hate to see you harming yourself like this. Take a seat!
Once more, I'm not Ajax13, but it's clear he must make you feel very small because you are lashing out at him even though I've explained repeatedly I am not he. That guy really got your goat.
I think this was really clear. The only point Whooter denied was that he lied when he said he never went to Chicago. He has admitted the rest already. This post above has the links to show Whooter was lying when he said he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting. He said he did in the quoted post.
And he also claimed STICC was launched in "April 2007" and claimed he offered a link to prove it, but he never provided the link because he's lying about the date. He really lies about everything. Every time you start to scratch the surface, the lies become readily apparent and obvious.
Read this thread from the start and you'll see him careening all over the map, never making a cogent argument and only disputing one single fact which was proven to be true by his own words. I mean what else can he say? He's exhausted the possible defenses and is just lashing out because he's boxed in and nobody believes him. Maybe he should have thought about that before perpetrating all of the fraud he has here?
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OK, I read from the beginning. Boiled down, the only fact TheWho has disputed was the OP's definition of the word "launched," as in "opening a business." There seems to be no substance from him. The OP, I think anyway, laid out a great case with links and quotes to prove her points. All TheWho contested was the OP's intent when using the word "launched." That was cleared up when she said "launched" meant "going after the first placement," while TheWho kept insisting she meant "incorporated" but she explained that was not the case several times. How can TheWho know what she meant? That's nonsensical.
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If Concerned Parent still has the PM, he/she could hand the login over to a neutral/trusted third party to verify the PM and make a screen-shot. If the email addresses match and that PM was indeed sent by TheWho, i'd say that is indeed a smoking gun.
Psy, I dont think it is authnetic, I think that if a post like this really did exist they would be eager to have it authenticated. But I have to side with thewho that there isnt much substance, I mean that was the smoking gun, if they made that up (which it is obvious that they did at this point) then who knows about the other stuff on here.
I think it has been fun watching them try to pin this guy down. It looked like they really had him pegged until that dam PM turned out to be fabricated. It throws into question everything else that is said here. I still think that he is this Reuben guy, but they blew it with the lie.
Keep at it guys, see if you can find more evidence.
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Exactly, STICC's was Launched in April of 2007 (I provided you a link) and I was there in January of 2007 (I provided a link). The post inwhich you stated I lied indicated that I was there prior to the launch of STICCS, which as you can see by the time line is not true.
Where is the lie?
You can continue to avoid the facts by posting another long post, Ajax13, or you can provide the readers with the steps of the lie you claim I made.
"STICC's was Launched in April of 2007 (I provided you a link)". I think you are making this up, Whooter. Show me the link you provided that STICC was launched in April, 2007. You are getting very desperate!
Post the link or you're lying again.
Still waiting for the link, Whooter. Looks like you were caught making up some "facts" again. Show the link where you prove STICC was launched in April of 2007. By the way, that also makes your visit to Chicago to be just prior to STICCs launch, according to your timetable. Looks like the OP was right after all. Whooter now admits it in the above post.
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Exactly, STICC's was Launched in April of 2007 (I provided you a link) and I was there in January of 2007 (I provided a link). The post inwhich you stated I lied indicated that I was there prior to the launch of STICCS, which as you can see by the time line is not true.
Where is the lie?
You can continue to avoid the facts by posting another long post, Ajax13, or you can provide the readers with the steps of the lie you claim I made.
"STICC's was Launched in April of 2007 (I provided you a link)". I think you are making this up, Whooter. Show me the link you provided that STICC was launched in April, 2007. You are getting very desperate!
Post the link or you're lying again.
Still waiting for the link, Whooter. Looks like you were caught making up some "facts" again. Show the link where you prove STICC was launched in April of 2007. By the way, that also makes your visit to Chicago to be just prior to STICCs launch, according to your timetable. Looks like the OP was right after all. Whooter now admits it in the above post.
It does appear Whooter has a little problem now that he has admitted his trip to Chicago was right before STICC launched. He was denying it earlier, but seems now to have caved in and admitted the truth.
Here's something interesting that I've pointed out before. You know Reuben is a software guy and understands how search engines work, right? He's a marketing guy. We all saw how he used his son's obituary to beg for funding for STICC.
So...that being said, I have noticed that Whooter always intentionally misspells things he doesn't want to come up in a search engine to keep people from stumbling onto his connections here at Fornits. Everyone knows it's "STICC" but did you see how Whooter spelled it "STICC's" and also "STICCS" but never "STICC"? I noticed.
I also noticed when he was accused of being Reuben, every post he posted denying it he spelled "Reuben" wrong, too. He said "Rueban," and "Rueben" but never "Reuben." Obviously he doesn't want what he does here linked to STICC, so this is how he tries to minimize the impact of posting here so he doesn't draw unwatned attention to himself and STICC. Because if anyone who works with him ever got hold of his "work" here, they'd immediately know what a complete and utter fraud he is. Just a bit more evidence to support the OP's position, which is very, very strong I have to say.
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Here you go, some quotes showing the intentional misspellings to avoid search engine hits to draw people to Fornits and seewhat Reuben is really all about, i.e. "...where the real money is, the TBS industry":
Whooter misspelling "Reuben" and "STICC":
"Reuben" misspelled one way:
Ha,Ha,Ha Keep believing Brucie... Maybe you can still get your UPS
shipment reversed. Or at least rerouted to John Rueban maybe?
Then another:
John Reuban looks like a better fit...
And he goes on to spell his own name wrong purposefully dozens more times.
And, as for "STICC":
Exactly, STICC's was Launched in April of 2007 (I provided you
a link) and I was there in January of 2007 (I provided a link).
Then this way:
I was there prior to the launch of STICCS
And he goes on to spell the name of his company wrong purposefully dozens more times, too.
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I went thru all of Whooters posts and none of them you posted above are there. You just made all of that up, guest, again. The tip off with you is that you dont provide any links to the original post. For all we know those could have been made up just like the PM by concerned Parent or written by an anon.
How can we believe any of this stuff unless you provide links to the original. Maybe he wrote them under his old user name thewho but there are too many posts to look through. Without the links they are meaningless.
It seems less and less likely this whooter guy is Reuben.
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Ha, Ha, Ha. Two of those quotes are from this thread. You don't read too good. If you haven't noticed, Whooter (you) fails to log in like he just said he would earlier in this thread (another lie) so you can just search for the keywords above and you'll see it was you "who" said it, (unlogged in) Whooter!
I'd say Whooter has it all backwards. It looks more and more every day like the OP pinned down his identity. He hasn't been able to successfully dispute any of this thread. The main points have already been established, this is just supporting evidence and there's a lot of it.
Now, please provide the link you said you provided earlier that said "STICC's was launched in April 2007". You claimed to have provided a link, but you were lying. What a surprise.
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I saw he skipped right over this part, LOL:
It does appear Whooter has a little problem now that he has admitted his trip to Chicago was right before STICC launched. He was denying it earlier, but seems now to have caved in and admitted the truth.
He did admit it in the quote a few posts up. I guess Whooter loses on that point now, too.
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Let's keep it short and go over just Whooter's lies from this thread.
Lie #1: Whooter claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1: Whooter had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Lie #2: Whooter claims to be just a "regular parent with no ties to the industry."
Truth #2: Whooter already admitted he was part of a "statistical group to assess TBS safety" that met in Chicago. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Lie #3: Whooter claims not be John Reuben.
Truth #3: whooter has contacted at least one parent from this forum and provided her the email address "[email protected]" for her to contact him "outside of Fornits" because "everyone here has an agenda to discredit programs." The email address has been verified to be that of John Reuben and is the admin email account at savingteens.org. This was proven by posting the original PM from TheWho to Concerned Parent, which TheWho subsequently altered in a quote and copped to altering it when called out.
Lie #4: RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #4: Whooter dropped this claim and went on to blame someone else for being "Concerned Parent." Interestingly enough, Whooter has actually claimed to BE RobertBruce many times and later copped to fabricating at least one "lookalike" RobertBruce login to try to impersonate him (the login he admitted to creating "for fun" was 'RobertBruce .' with a space and a period at the end).
Lie #5: Ajax13 is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #5: Ajax13 is not Concerned Parent, but Whooter clings to this meme like a life raft anyway.
Lie #6: Ajax13 AND RobertBruce are "Concerned Parent."
Truth #6: Both are provably NOT "Concerned Parent." Whooter seems to have dropped this notion now because obviously they both couldn't be "Concerned Parent" at the same time, but that simple logic didn't stop him from floating it to distract from the conversation.
Lie #7: Whooter claimed to have no criminal record when confronted.
Truth #7: Whooter had already admitted years ago, on this board, that he was "arrested several times in Boston and once in Ann Arbor Michigan."
Lie #8: Whooter claims not to have lied at all.
Truth #8: Whooter has been caught lying like a rug using only his own posts and PMs as evidence of the lies. Essentially, he lied about everything, then had to walk it all back piece by piece as he was caught again and again. Now the only thing from the above list he won't cop to is being Reuben, but considering he lied about and was proven lying about the rest of the items in this thread, his assertion is just him howling from being bitten so badly.
So, that's 8 full-fledged, lie-through-your-teeth prevarications offered by TheWho in just this single thread. People should believe him for what reason now?
Sorry, Whooter, your lying chickens have come home to roost and nobody here believes anything you say anymore. Better luck next time.
All allegations proven beyond a reasonable doubt and not a single one disqualified.
Doesn't get more solid than that.
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Here you go, some quotes showing the intentional misspellings to avoid search engine hits to draw people to Fornits and seewhat Reuben is really all about, i.e. "...where the real money is, the TBS industry":
Whooter misspelling "Reuben" and "STICC":
"Reuben" misspelled one way:
Ha,Ha,Ha Keep believing Brucie... Maybe you can still get your UPS
shipment reversed. Or at least rerouted to John Rueban maybe?
Just out of curiosity I took the word "Rueban" and ran a search under the user name "Whooter" and nothing came up.
John Reuban looks like a better fit...
And he goes on to spell his own name wrong purposefully dozens more times.[/quote]
I did the same for "John Reuban" and nothing came up either under “Whooter”
And, as for "STICC":
Exactly, STICC's was Launched in April of 2007 (I provided you
a link) and I was there in January of 2007 (I provided a link).
This wasnt found under any of Whooters posts either. The word STICC's comes up once but he was quoting someone else.
Then this way:
I was there prior to the launch of STICCS
And he goes on to spell the name of his company wrong purposefully dozens more times, too.
The word STICCS didnt come up at all under "Whooter"
So it seems the guest here fabricated or altered all these posts to make it seem like Whooter wrote them. This is prevalent throughout this whole thread it appears.
I agree with one of the prior posts that without links to originals none of the posts have any credibility.
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Let's keep it short and go over just Whooter's lies from this thread.
Lie #1: Whooter claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1: Whooter had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Lie #2: Whooter claims to be just a "regular parent with no ties to the industry."
Truth #2: Whooter already admitted he was part of a "statistical group to assess TBS safety" that met in Chicago. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Lie #3: Whooter claims not be John Reuben.
Truth #3: whooter has contacted at least one parent from this forum and provided her the email address "[email protected]" for her to contact him "outside of Fornits" because "everyone here has an agenda to discredit programs." The email address has been verified to be that of John Reuben and is the admin email account at savingteens.org. This was proven by posting the original PM from TheWho to Concerned Parent, which TheWho subsequently altered in a quote and copped to altering it when called out.
Lie #4: RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #4: Whooter dropped this claim and went on to blame someone else for being "Concerned Parent." Interestingly enough, Whooter has actually claimed to BE RobertBruce many times and later copped to fabricating at least one "lookalike" RobertBruce login to try to impersonate him (the login he admitted to creating "for fun" was 'RobertBruce .' with a space and a period at the end).
Lie #5: Ajax13 is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #5: Ajax13 is not Concerned Parent, but Whooter clings to this meme like a life raft anyway.
Lie #6: Ajax13 AND RobertBruce are "Concerned Parent."
Truth #6: Both are provably NOT "Concerned Parent." Whooter seems to have dropped this notion now because obviously they both couldn't be "Concerned Parent" at the same time, but that simple logic didn't stop him from floating it to distract from the conversation.
Lie #7: Whooter claimed to have no criminal record when confronted.
Truth #7: Whooter had already admitted years ago, on this board, that he was "arrested several times in Boston and once in Ann Arbor Michigan."
Lie #8: Whooter claims not to have lied at all.
Truth #8: Whooter has been caught lying like a rug using only his own posts and PMs as evidence of the lies. Essentially, he lied about everything, then had to walk it all back piece by piece as he was caught again and again. Now the only thing from the above list he won't cop to is being Reuben, but considering he lied about and was proven lying about the rest of the items in this thread, his assertion is just him howling from being bitten so badly.
So, that's 8 full-fledged, lie-through-your-teeth prevarications offered by TheWho in just this single thread. People should believe him for what reason now?
Sorry, Whooter, your lying chickens have come home to roost and nobody here believes anything you say anymore. Better luck next time.
All allegations proven beyond a reasonable doubt and not a single one disqualified.
Doesn't get more solid than that.
OK, we're making progress. So Whooter does NOT dispute any of these assertions which have been proven with links many times in this thread. Good news. He's at least not trying to lie and say they're not true.
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They all have proper links.
Heck, I'll just go for all of them to save time.
Rebuttal section:
Let's keep it short and go over just Whooter's lies from this
thread.
Lie #1: Whooter claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1: Whooter had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten
and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting. This was proven
over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Whooter, in his own words, admits to the trip he was just denying. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=245433&hilit=+chicago#p245433)
Lie #2: Whooter claims to be just a "regular parent with no ties to
the industry."
Truth #2: Whooter already admitted he was part of a "statistical group to assess TBS
safety" that met in Chicago. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting
the post where he already admitted it.
TheWho admitting to being an industry player and saying TBS "is where the money's at." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1470#p245461)
Lie #3: Whooter claims not be John Reuben.
Truth #3: whooter has contacted at least one parent from this forum and provided her
the email address "[email protected]" for her to contact him "outside of Fornits"
because "everyone here has an agenda to discredit programs." The email address has
been verified to be that of John Reuben and is the admin email account at
savingteens.org. This was proven by posting the original PM from TheWho to Concerned
Parent, which TheWho subsequently altered in a quote and copped to altering it when
called out.
TheWho's PM to Concerned Parent is posted in its entirety. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29294&start=45#p351905)
Whois search for savingteens.org shows the email address Whooter provided belongs to John Reuben. (http://http://whois.domaintools.com/savingteens.org)
Lie #4: RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #4: Whooter dropped this claim and went on to blame someone else for being
"Concerned Parent." Interestingly enough, Whooter has actually claimed to BE
RobertBruce many times and later copped to fabricating at least one "lookalike"
RobertBruce login to try to impersonate him (the login he admitted to creating "for
fun" was 'RobertBruce .' with a space and a period at the end).
Whooter begins his claim that RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342#p351931)
Whooter continues to hammer at the meme "Concerned Parent is RobertBruce" without a shred of evidence to suggest that. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=15#p352016)
...and hammering it some more... (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=45#p352455)
Lie #5: Ajax13 is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #5: Ajax13 is not Concerned Parent, but Whooter clings to this meme like a life
raft anyway.
Here we have Whooter denying being himself, posting as "Dick Cheney" claiming Ajax13 and not RobertBruce "fabricated the PM." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=75#p352505)
Lie #6: Ajax13 AND RobertBruce are "Concerned Parent."
Truth #6: Both are provably NOT "Concerned Parent." Whooter seems to have dropped
this notion now because obviously they both couldn't be "Concerned Parent" at the same
time, but that simple logic didn't stop him from floating it to distract from the
conversation.
Here Whooter claims both RobertBruce and Ajax13 are "Concerned Parent." Now he's veering all over the place grasping at straws with no proof. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=75#p352499)
Lie #7: Whooter claimed to have no criminal record when
confronted.
Truth #7: Whooter had already admitted years ago, on this board, that he was "arrested
several times in Boston and once in Ann Arbor Michigan."
Whooter admitting to being arrested "many times in Boston" and elsewhere. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23338&p=284895&hilit=+arrest#p284895)
Lie #8: Whooter claims not to have lied at all.
Truth #8: Whooter has been caught lying like a rug using only his own posts and PMs as
evidence of the lies. Essentially, he lied about everything, then had to walk it all
back piece by piece as he was caught again and again. Now the only thing from the
above list he won't cop to is being Reuben, but considering he lied about and was
proven lying about the rest of the items in this thread, his assertion is just him
howling from being bitten so badly.
No link required, see above. ; )
So, that's 8 full-fledged, lie-through-your-teeth prevarications
offered by TheWho in just this single thread. People should believe him for what
reason now?
Sorry, Whooter, your lying chickens have come home to roost and nobody here believes
anything you say anymore. Better luck next time.
Whooter has been fully owned yet again and busted out lying through his teeth yet
again. Whooter, you better try something else, like going back to trolling with
endless emoticons to slow the page loading, because you are SO BUSTED in YOUR OWN WORDS
and you just can't hide anymore. Your legacy here has cought up to you and just won't
go away. Can't escape those facts, son.
There it is, again, with links. First you claim you never went to Chicago and demanded proof that you did. You then were supplied with a quote from your own post with a link to it showing you did indeed go to Chicago and you were very proud of it as well. You can see the quotes and links above. Right...up...there...again.
I think anybody reading this post can see quite clearly that the statements above are factually true, based on your own words. You said one thing, then you said the opposite. That's called "lying" because the statements "I wasn't there" and "I was there," of which you uttered both (see links above), are mutually exclusive. Do you understand the difference between "I was there" and "I wasn't there"? If not, we'll just move on without you.
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I haven't been here in a long time and just wanted to say hello and that this is HI-LARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nice work everyone!! It's about damned time this asshole was called out.
Hope all is well with everybody and y'all had a great holiday. :seg2:
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Welcome back, sweet cheeks ; )
This is all stuff everyone knew already, but at least people took the time to compile it all in one place so readers know what this douche is all about anyway.
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I haven't been here in a long time and just wanted to say hello and that this is HI-LARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nice work everyone!! It's about damned time this asshole was called out.
Hope all is well with everybody and y'all had a great holiday. :seg2:
Well I would not go as far as calling Bruce an asshole. I think he tried his best. When he fabricated that PM from "concerned parent" I think it hurt all of the survivors credibility and I think that could be an asshole move. But eventually we caught on that he was altering the posts to make it look like whooter wrote them and had to call him out because it looked so abvious. If you follow the links he provided, none of them lead back to whooters posts. But that really doesnt matter because I cant wait to see Whooters reaction when he comes to fornits and reads this list. :eek:
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Maybe i'm slow. I'm scratching my head still trying to figure out what the smoking gun here. Can anybody succinctly explain to the stupid ones here such as myself what exactly connects TheWho to this Reuben guy.
I havent seen it yet either. There are lots of words, dates and posts, but like RMA Survivor said very little evidence or links to outside sources. Maybe Concerned Parent (or the person logging in as him) will allow his post to be validated showing that Whooter and Reuben have the same email address. That would be the smoking gun.
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I haven't been here in a long time and just wanted to say hello and that this is HI-LARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nice work everyone!! It's about damned time this asshole was called out.
Hope all is well with everybody and y'all had a great holiday. :seg2:
Well I would not go as far as calling Bruce an asshole. I think he tried his best. When he fabricated that PM from "concerned parent" I think it hurt all of the survivors credibility and I think that could be an asshole move. But eventually we caught on that he was altering the posts to make it look like whooter wrote them and had to call him out because it looked so abvious. If you follow the links he provided, none of them lead back to whooters posts. But that really doesnt matter because I cant wait to see Whooters reaction when he comes to fornits and reads this list. :eek:
I would call him an asshole. He makes us all look like fools, spends all day talking to thewho and making up nonsense posts that no one even gives a shit about. Who cares what that fucking dickhead says or whether he is lying or not. Bruce why dont you spend your day posting about shit that is going to expose or shut these fucking abusive hell holes down!! :wall:
Your the biggest dick of all of them for keeping thewhos propaganda at the top.
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Whooter now is back to "RobertBruce did it," his excuse for everything. Yesterday he was saying "Ajax13 did it." It can't be both so he's obviously lying again.
Why should anyone allow their personal information to be seen by people Whooter has called "frauds" like he called Psy? Whooter has railed against the mods here for five years, said over and over how untrustworthy they are and has said he won't allow anyone access to his personal information, but yet he demands others to do it? I don't think so.
Why doesn't Whooter just prove he isn't John Reuben? That would take no cooperation from anyone. He could do it anytime he wanted if it were true, but he doesn't. What does that tell you?
Still no evidence to contradict any of the OP's points. All of it is accepted as fact already. There is not one shred of evidence showing any of the OP's points are untrue. If Whooter has evidence to prove any of the points are untrue he should post it instead of just whining. He has a chance to take the stand and explain himself, but he's pleading the 5th, which indicates he can't disprove anything.
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I haven't been here in a long time and just wanted to say hello and that this is HI-LARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nice work everyone!! It's about damned time this asshole was called out.
Hope all is well with everybody and y'all had a great holiday. :seg2:
Well I would not go as far as calling Bruce an asshole.
::)
And you guys wonder why most of the regulars don't come around anymore. You know damn well "Who" she was referring to.
Dick.
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I haven't been here in a long time and just wanted to say hello and that this is HI-LARIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Nice work everyone!! It's about damned time this asshole was called out.
Hope all is well with everybody and y'all had a great holiday. :seg2:
Well I would not go as far as calling Bruce an asshole. I think he tried his best. When he fabricated that PM from "concerned parent" I think it hurt all of the survivors credibility and I think that could be an asshole move. But eventually we caught on that he was altering the posts to make it look like whooter wrote them and had to call him out because it looked so abvious. If you follow the links he provided, none of them lead back to whooters posts. But that really doesnt matter because I cant wait to see Whooters reaction when he comes to fornits and reads this list. :eek:
I would call him an asshole. He makes us all look like fools, spends all day talking to thewho and making up nonsense posts that no one even gives a shit about. Who cares what that fucking dickhead says or whether he is lying or not. Bruce why dont you spend your day posting about shit that is going to expose or shut these fucking abusive hell holes down!! :wall:
Your the biggest dick of all of them for keeping thewhos propaganda at the top.
Thank you! I couldnt say it better myself :rocker:
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That's because you said it. I thought you were going to log in? Guess that was just another lie you told...
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That's because you said it. I thought you were going to log in? Guess that was just another lie you told...
Projection: Psychology.
a. the tendency to ascribe to another person feelings, thoughts, or attitudes present in oneself.
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No, you said earlier in this thread in response to RMA Survivor you would log in. I guess that was not true.
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No, you said earlier in this thread in response to RMA Survivor you would log in. I guess that was not true.
That's correct, Guest. Whooter did say he would log in but has failed to do so since saying he would. It's called "lying" and Whooter does it all the time.
If logging in under my user name makes a difference I will log in...
It does, but you didn't. And you won't.
Because if you stop trolling this thread it will be even more obvious (if that's possible) that only you support you. Unless you can have your litle phony identities saying "That's right, Whooter. Great point!" or, even better "I'm not Whooter, but I can see he's right about everything!" there will not be one single post here to support you or any of your untenable assertions.
This is the sad existence of the troll known as "Whooter." Five years' worth of posting here and exactly zero return on investment. He has never swayed even a single reader. I wonder how Whooter feels now knowing he wasted five years posting here on Fornits? Especially considering the end result is his identity as a TTI pimp being outed and being thoroughly and completely discredited, with Aspen Education deaths and closures hanging around his neck like a millstone.
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Very entertaining stuff.
I especially love how The Who will reply as a guest, at first talking about himself in the third person and then not realizing he is shilling for himself, start replying in the first person in the same post. Which reveals it was him all the time.
You must have also noticed that the OP was replying as a guest also and replying to his own posts. This guest would make up stories and information as he went along i.e.
So let's clear up the semantics: The real launch of STICC was late December 2006, not coincidentally, right after the meeting in Chicago. You admitted on February 8 of 2007 you were there "about a month ago" (which could easily mean "six weeks") which was, again, not coincidentally, right after the big meeting you had to get the board together, December, 2006. December, 2006 is when Goldberg and Woodbury, et al came on board for STICC. Soon after, they began placing children in earnest.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=352615&sid=88f2ffc98388ebf0fd963b8467fb7e31&sid=88f2ffc98388ebf0fd963b8467fb7e31#p352615)
As far as STICC's launch date, I was referring to when they created the Board of Advisors and went after their first placement. That was late 2006. STICC first solicited kids on August 28th, 2006, asking people if they wanted to be the first placed kid. The Board was formed in late 2006 and added to the website December 30th, 2006, right after the meeting in Chicago. That's a proven fact. Denying it only makes you look worse, if that's possible.
Where was the link to back up his information? Did you ever wonder about this?
The Who also doesn't answer direct questions.
If you are referring to the first of the 8 questions I was trying to show that the guest avoided putting up the evidence which showed I lied. The only link he provided was my own post. He never posted the question which lead up to that post. Were you not curious about this also? The guest was avoiding my direct question. I asked him to provide the link that supports his thoughts that I lied and all he could come up with was my own post.
Here is what I believe the guest was referring to:
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
you both took a trip to Chicago to meet with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen just before STICC was launched.
You say both? You could probably document this Reuben guy as being there, but how do you place me there? You say you have documented evidence. Evidence would mean I was posting from Chicago at the same time this meeting took place. That may raise some eyebrows I would say. But you see you dont have that evidence because I wasnt there.
So you said I was there just before STICC was launched. STICC was launched in April of 2004. You also said I was with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen. Do you care to try to deny you said this?
In February of 2007 I wrote:
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first. We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently. Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=245433&hilit=+chicago#p245433)
So where is the lie?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
After reading that how can anyone conclude that there is a lie?
So you see RMA survivor the OP/guest was not being truthful even on his first question (and I knew that) and when pressured for a link time and time again he avoided the request and reverted back to posting the 8 lies to avoid exposing the fact that he made them up.
If logging in under my user name makes a difference I will log in and respond to those who are interested in the truth and are logged in also. I would suggest a new thread.
I read it as he is willing to converse with those who are logged in also.
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I suppose it doesn't really matter if he chooses to avoid the facts logged I or not logged in. As a previous post indicated, if the 'anon' is supporting Whooter, it is Whooter. Nobody else has posted any support.
So where we left off was that Whooter was unable to prove any of the OP's assertions false. They have all been proven true.
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Holy Shnikies! (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=120#p352625) This thread is a full-fledged ass whipping on TheWho.
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Maybe i'm slow. I'm scratching my head still trying to figure out what the smoking gun here. Can anybody succinctly explain to the stupid ones here such as myself what exactly connects TheWho to this Reuben guy.
I havent seen it yet either. There are lots of words, dates and posts, but like RMA Survivor said very little evidence or links to outside sources. Maybe Concerned Parent will allow his post to be validated. That would be the smoking gun.
I never said "Very little evidence or links to outside sources." But it is usually Guests who post inaccurate quotes. Which was half my beef with The Who. All of these Guests supporting their own arguments. That's why we call them sock puppets.
What I said was that there was enough evidence to convince me. I am an actual RMA survivor. Someone who actually cares about kids and what happens to them since I was one of those kids who got sent away. So whether the OP was trying to convince everyone or not, they convinced me with the evidence provided. I said I believed the PM message posted, alleging that The Who was using John Reuben's email address was authentic. I was convinced. I said I didn't need a site admin pouring over endless posts from the last few years to find the original IP address used to help convince me. I also said I believed that The Who, in his claim that he went to Chicago to attend a meeting, did not attend it in January as he claims, but attended it in November or December a month or two before. I also said I believe The Who lies and is routinely deceitful. Using sock puppet Guest posts to bolster his own arguments.
You see, when people who have recognizable user names comment, posters who are here often, are part of the regular fornits community and that have established themselves as being likely legitimate people...when those people post and make comments, I tend to hold those comments in higher esteem, give them more credibility and respect than I do to Guest posters. I hold their opinions much higher. So when I see a thread with Guest after Guest posting and don't see many real names, I can discard much of what I read as being irrelevant. I read the thread, and the ones before, I have been here long enough to know that The Who is pro-program (Which is fine with me, I have many RMA friends who feel RMA helped them in some way, even if that help was making a lot of great friends and little else) and I know The Who works for the industry. I actually thought he was Lon Woodbury. It's because of the fanaticism. The inability to back down when abuse is obvious. When newspapers and police and state investigators find wrong doing, it is the The Who's and the Guests who all try and dumb it down, redirect the arguments, claim bias or whatever that shows their fanatical zeal. It identifies them as being too biased to be credible.
The actual survivors, the kids who went through these programs, come here to discuss the latest news, discuss the problems these places have, the abuses they know from first-hand experience took place. Some just like being able to stay in touch with some of the amazing friends they made while in these places. And because they are willing, in many cases, to admit that some aspects of their time in these places were enjoyable, they come off as real. That any bias they show pro or con sounds individual, not like they are representing an industry. But The Who always comes off as a cheer leader for the industry. Which is why it was not difficult to believe the "evidence" showing he is. And I put that in quotes because everyone has to decide for themselves what constitutes real and solid evidence to them. But as I also said in my post, this isn't a court case. But we are the jury. A jury of individuals. Each of us can read what has been posted and make are own determinations. My determination is that I have seen enough. Not just in these threads but from reading endless posts by The Who/Whooter and his Guest persona over the years. The PM message, Chicago, the criminal record, the lack of direct answers, the constant misdirecting and redirecting of the argument have all weighed in on the side of guilty. I think The Who and John Reuben are one and the same.
I looked at things from a simple standpoint. I know that people who lie all the time, have endless user names, who post anon all the time and tell a lot of stories tend to get caught up every now and then, forgetting whom they told what to. I even said in my post that The Who will reply as a Guest, forget he is replying as a Guest, start talking in the first person, and thereby reveal WHO he is. It happens. Pretending to be someone else for a short time isn't too hard. But over years, and with so many personalities, you eventually screw up. The Who sent a PM message to a user he thought was really a concerned parent and not just a regular Fornits poster. And he revealed who he really was to that parent. I believe that. John Reuben and Lon Woodbury represent the industry. They are fanatics, in it for the money and they would never be able to conceal that for long. The Who, who is clearly representing the industry when you read his posts over the years, comes off the same way. Therefore it took no stretch of my imagination to believe that a PM message, authenticated or not, coming from The Who and showing a connection to John Reuben was likely authentic. And lastly, as I also said in my post, it goes to the character of the person, the way they react when accused. The Who squirmed. He did not answer directly, he avoided the valid points and changed the topic whenever possible. Just like a kid caught by mommy and daddy. But also, like a criminal in a police interrogation room. If you are innocent, the cops will figure that out soon enough. But if you aren't they figure that out quickly too. People who are innocent react differently than people who are not. Lies are generally easy to expose. Maybe not all lies, but the big ones tend to be. The Who squirmed. He fidgeted in his seat. Sweat poured down his forehead. His answers lacked truthfulness. His answers lacked conviction. His answers and responses all entailed misdirection. He can't reply with a single post as I asked, because lies must be followed by lies. Only truth can stand by itself, needing no lies to prop itself up.
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These are precisely my thoughts as well, RMA. Thank you for taking the time to explain it clearly. TheWho is an industry shill and is financially vested in the TTI. That's plain and obvious.
When he tells his story of his Chicago meeting and everyone wanting to "start with wildreness," but that he explained "let's start where the real money is, the TBS industry," that's all I needed to hear. That IS the "smoking gun" that proves he's a TTI player and not a "regular parent" as he has tried to make people here believe for years.
He's made too many incriminating statements, scored too many bullseye hits on himself and has steadfastly stood up for programs found to be abusing or killing kids and getting shut down by regulators or law enforcement. NORMAL people woudn't do that. NORMAL people would say "Wow, I am SO GLAD they shut that place down. Boy, was I fooled."
Not Whooter. He openly admits here that child protection laws are something "to get around, not to follow" and that these abusive programs should "continue the same way they did before" regardless of the charges they get hit with. Only a zealot protecting a revenue stream would even think like that and probably wouldn't say it out loud under any circumstances.
No, my friends, the die has been cast. The results are in. TheWho has failed in epic fashion.
No, he made his bed and now he must lie (no pun intended) in it.
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I never said "Very little evidence or links to outside sources." But it is usually Guests who post inaccurate quotes. Which was half my beef with The Who. All of these Guests supporting their own arguments. That's why we call them sock puppets.
What I said was that there was enough evidence to convince me.
I agree each of us can make up our own minds based on the evidence.
I am an actual RMA survivor. Someone who actually cares about kids and what happens to them since I was one of those kids who got sent away. So whether the OP was trying to convince everyone or not, they convinced me with the evidence provided. I said I believed the PM message posted, alleging that The Who was using John Reuben's email address was authentic. I was convinced. I said I didn't need a site admin pouring over endless posts from the last few years to find the original IP address used to help convince me.
It seems you convinced yourself that it would be hard work for the admin to try to verify the PM and therefore you decided lets not go thru all that work, saying "I am convinced without the evidence". When in fact Psy stated he could just look at the original PM and verify whether or not it is valid. Sometimes it helps to look from another point of view. Lets say a guest posts a PM which basically confirms that Rachael lied in her interview on 5th Estate.(If you are not familiar with her she came out publically against a place in Canada called AARC) Then Psy said he could confirm that PM and the guest poster declined to have it validated. Do you think everyone would nod their heads and say “I believe the PM”, declining having the PM validated wouldnt raise an eyebrow to you?
I also said I believed that The Who, in his claim that he went to Chicago to attend a meeting, did not attend it in January as he claims, but attended it in November or December a month or two before. I also said I believe The Who lies and is routinely deceitful. Using sock puppet Guest posts to bolster his own arguments.
Whether I was in Chicago even 6 months before my post said I was still doesn’t line up with the time line. I checked STICCs web site and STICCs was started in April of 2004. My post puts me in Chicago in 2007. That conversation was almost 3 years ago and there wasn’t any evidence put forth that places Woodbury, Reuben or any of those people there. Look at the original post. Again I think you believe what you want to believe.
You see, when people who have recognizable user names comment, posters who are here often, are part of the regular fornits community and that have established themselves as being likely legitimate people...when those people post and make comments, I tend to hold those comments in higher esteem, give them more credibility and respect than I do to Guest posters. I hold their opinions much higher. So when I see a thread with Guest after Guest posting and don't see many real names, I can discard much of what I read as being irrelevant. I read the thread, and the ones before, I have been here long enough to know that The Who is pro-program (Which is fine with me, I have many RMA friends who feel RMA helped them in some way, even if that help was making a lot of great friends and little else) and I know The Who works for the industry. I actually thought he was Lon Woodbury. It's because of the fanaticism. The inability to back down when abuse is obvious. When newspapers and police and state investigators find wrong doing, it is the The Who's and the Guests who all try and dumb it down, redirect the arguments, claim bias or whatever that shows their fanatical zeal. It identifies them as being too biased to be credible.
I have read numerous times here when posters didn’t believe the police and newspaper reports because the evidence was siding with the program or staff (so it goes both ways). I think we all have our biases no matter how impartial we try to be. I tend to believe that the programs are inherently good and have the best interest of the children at heart, while others here think the opposite. So when a report comes out that states something negative about a program I tend to look for more validation. If a negative report is posted on here about the industry it is taken at face value, no questions asked, but positive experiences are scrutinized.
The actual survivors, the kids who went through these programs, come here to discuss the latest news, discuss the problems these places have, the abuses they know from first-hand experience took place. Some just like being able to stay in touch with some of the amazing friends they made while in these places. And because they are willing, in many cases, to admit that some aspects of their time in these places were enjoyable, they come off as real. That any bias they show pro or con sounds individual, not like they are representing an industry. But The Who always comes off as a cheer leader for the industry. Which is why it was not difficult to believe the "evidence" showing he is. And I put that in quotes because everyone has to decide for themselves what constitutes real and solid evidence to them.
See, I have to disagree with you here. I think it is maybe because of our different perspectives. I rarely see a survivor tell a balanced story of their experience. Rarely do I hear about the good friends they made, helpful staff member or the white water rafting trip or fun time they had sneaking off to have a smoke together etc. All that is withheld to make the program look as bad as possible. If what you said were true I would believe more of the stories I read here. I see myself as being able to view the industry as both abusive and helpful and am open about these feelings. But we are hard pressed to find many people here willing to recognize the good side of the program, although I do see more and more of this recently vs 3 or more years ago, I have to admit.
But as I also said in my post, this isn't a court case. But we are the jury. A jury of individuals. Each of us can read what has been posted and make are own determinations. My determination is that I have seen enough. Not just in these threads but from reading endless posts by The Who/Whooter and his Guest persona over the years. The PM message, Chicago, the criminal record, the lack of direct answers, the constant misdirecting and redirecting of the argument have all weighed in on the side of guilty. I think The Who and John Reuben are one and the same.
You believe the criminal record? That was never posted. A guest poster says there is a criminal record and you believe that? If guest said that Rachael had a history of lying and had an FBI record to prove it would we all just go “Wow, she must be guilty and ashamed of herself” Maybe she should be sued. Would this be the general feeling here? Or would we look for more compelling evidence or a link of some type?
I looked at things from a simple standpoint. I know that people who lie all the time, have endless user names, who post anon all the time and tell a lot of stories tend to get caught up every now and then, forgetting whom they told what to. I even said in my post that The Who will reply as a Guest, forget he is replying as a Guest, start talking in the first person, and thereby reveal WHO he is. It happens. Pretending to be someone else for a short time isn't too hard. But over years, and with so many personalities, you eventually screw up.
Well, I have been accused of this before and have had my posts strung together twice before and Psy had them laid out for everyone to see and I had relatively very few guest posts and proved I was not imitating survivors or other people as many suspected. The only time that was done is when someone created a log-in “TheWho.” (with a dot after it) pretending to me and I reciprocated with the same thing with “RobertBruce.” With a dot the same way. Or maybe it was Ajax13.( with a dot) I dont remember which one exactly. But how many others here have had their posts strung together to revel their guest posting activity?
Before criticizing others for their posting activity they should be willing to revel their history.
The Who sent a PM message to a user he thought was really a concerned parent and not just a regular Fornits poster. And he revealed who he really was to that parent. I believe that. John Reuben and Lon Woodbury represent the industry. They are fanatics, in it for the money and they would never be able to conceal that for long. The Who, who is clearly representing the industry when you read his posts over the years, comes off the same way. Therefore it took no stretch of my imagination to believe that a PM message, authenticated or not, coming from The Who and showing a connection to John Reuben was likely authentic. And lastly, as I also said in my post, it goes to the character of the person, the way they react when accused. The Who squirmed. He did not answer directly, he avoided the valid points and changed the topic whenever possible. Just like a kid caught by mommy and daddy. But also, like a criminal in a police interrogation room. If you are innocent, the cops will figure that out soon enough. But if you aren't they figure that out quickly too. People who are innocent react differently than people who are not. Lies are generally easy to expose. Maybe not all lies, but the big ones tend to be. The Who squirmed. He fidgeted in his seat. Sweat poured down his forehead. His answers lacked truthfulness. His answers lacked conviction. His answers and responses all entailed misdirection.
You saw what you wanted to see, RMA, I believe. The police would look for signs like you did and maybe draw conclusions. But at some point they would gather evidence to confirm or deny their suspicions. This piece hasn’t been done yet. They wouldn’t sit back and just understand if someone felt like withholding evidence and simply conclude it was legitimate anyway. If they investigated the time line like me being in Chicago in 2007 when STICCs was launched in 2004 they wouldn’t try to change the evidence to make it appear STICCs was really launched in 2006 and then provide no evidence.... see what I mean. The squirming you talk about occurred when I showed their time line was off by several years and they scrambled to try to repair their lie by looking at child placement timelines instead etc.. But we all know that doesn’t tie into the launch date, which was in 2004. The facts cant be altered and the readers know this, at least the open minded ones do.
He can't reply with a single post as I asked, because lies must be followed by lies. Only truth can stand by itself, needing no lies to prop itself up.
I logged in and stated that we can have this conversation logged in. I haven’t responded to you, since, as a guest at all, RMA Survivor. See, this is how you are easily duped (as we all can be) into believing one of the others responding to you was myself. It is not as easy as you think to figure out which guest post is mine and which is someone pretending to be me. I only responded to you once and I was logged in then. You shouldn’t call people liars unless you are sure.
Your above post has also revealed that you easily condemn others based on a preconceived ideal and not on any evidence or lack thereof. This is the general feeling here on programs also. If something negative is reported about a program the feeling is that programs have such little credibility, in their minds, that facts are not needed to draw a conclusion. I will continue to respond to you logged in.
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STICCs
Still doing the feeble damage control.
STICC. John D. Reuben.
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Notice Whooter's denials had nothing to do with facts, just with peceptions (people will believe what they want to" etc).
Nothing here has been refuted or proven false. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=120#p352625)
Poor Whooter. He's been exposed. And he lost all credibility (not that there was any anyway). Maybe he should have thought first before lying about all sorts of things here. He lied so much he lost track of the lies and that's where he got bit.
Now all he can do is cry and whine and continue his only argument - that "launched" means "incorporated" and not "open for business" which is patently ridiculous. Everyone knows a "launch" or "grand opening" doesn't happen on the date of incorporation and the OP explained what she meant long ago and explicitly said Whooter was in Chicago in December of 2006.
And Whooter already admitted his extensive criminal record. What do we need another source for other than the primary, which was yourself?
And why shoulod anyone have to give their personal information to Psy, whom Whooter calls a "fraud"? All Whooter has to do is show he's not Reuben and the problem vanishes, but he won't reveal his personal info like he demands of the OP. If he wants to run a double standard then he will be saddled with being outed as John D. Reuben of STICC until he proves otherwise.
He has not challenged any other of the OP's assertions and they have all been proven solidly.
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What is Whooter doing now? Fishing for plausible deniability in other threads in posts posted by some random Guest? Lame and lazy effort, Whooter. No wonder you never linked to the actual post! It's not even part of this thread or discussion. For all we know, Whooter wrote it himself. Lols.
Another EPIC FAIL for Whooter.
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This thread is very informative about how parents can get snookered by program pushers disguising themselves as "regular parents." This guy Whooter denies all the time that he is involved in the industry, but then he says :the real money's in the TBS industry" while at an industry seminar. ::)
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:bump:
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This thread is very informative about how parents can get snookered by program pushers disguising themselves as "regular parents." This guy Whooter denies all the time that he is involved in the industry, but then he says :the real money's in the TBS industry" while at an industry seminar. ::)
And his posting as a Guest is exactly that same thing! Trying to suggest he is someone else, just as the program pushers disguise their true links to the industry. Whooter/John Reuben tries desperately to conceal his connection to the industry. Not just informative but revealing. It's always about lies and deception with them. If parents had real information, they'd think more than twice about sending their kids away to these places. The money is in maintaining the illusion of impartiality. The illusion of actual therapy. The Wizard of Oz.
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True indeed. This is why every time you see Whooter post, you should link to this thread so the reader can see that they are dealing with a shifty, money-grubbing liar bent on filling program beds regardless of the abuse his favorite programs (Aspen) keep getting shut down for.
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A PM sent by TheWho to me when he thought I wanted to send my son to ASR:
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent
Personally I think ASR is a good program. It worked for our family. My kid was there
when Dave Marcus wrote his book based on the kids in the program and they got back on
track and matured. I have been to the campus many times and think if it's a good fit
for your son that you shouldn't worry about it. Don't trust what you read on this site
because the members here are all anti-program and have an agenda to discredit all
programs. If you want to contact me outside fornits I can help you get in contact with
someone who can help you make the right decision. You can email me at
[email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) was offered by Whooter as a contact to talk outside of Fornits. How could John Reuben login as TheWho and send PMs to me as TheWho? Did Reuben break into TheWho's Fornits account? Or is it more sensible that John Reuben and TheWho are the same person? Obviously they are.
Then Whooter says this:
As far as the email goes that could have been anyone. How do you know [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected])
Ooops! Whooter caught in three separate gigantic lies in just this one thread from just one day. Why would anyone believe a word he says when he literally lies about EVERYTHING??
The game is over. TheWho has been thoroughly discredited just by his own admitted lies, and that's just the tip of the iceburg of whet he has lied about in his postings. These lies were easy to expose. Just quote the TheWho denying his statements and then quote him admitting to them. Only one can be true, so he it's undeniable he lied.
Hey Who, care to explain this one? How are you going to prove this PM is a fake Ha,Ha,Ha Remember it is up to you to prove it false!
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Look, I couldnt hold back any longer, its been fun watching you guys tripping over your own underwear for weeks now trying to cover your own mistakes and changing your dates in a very poor effort in trying to tie me to this Reuben guy and to the industry. Actually I think many people really thought I was John Reuben until you started fabricating evidence lol.
Out of everyone here the only ones who fell for your efforts were the “Fantastic 4” (who believe what they are told to believe and never question anything)….. i.e. RMA Survivor, Ajax13, RobertBruce, Anne Boleyn and maybe a few new people. The rest of us saw that your dates were off by about three years, your links lead to dead ends or sound bites and if you go and check the date on your “smoking gun PM” you will see that June 6, 2007 was a Wednesday not a Friday as indicated by your post. Oh no!! Ha,Ha,Ha, (so we dont need psy to authenticate it I guess.)
Here is your smoking gun:
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=351905&sid=7e1ba679dc8a123728a8c57446ab4fdb&sid=7e1ba679dc8a123728a8c57446ab4fdb#p351905)
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent
Personally I think ASR is a good program. It worked for our family. My kid was there
when Dave Marcus wrote his book based on the kids in the program and they got back on
track and matured. I have been to the campus many times and think if it's a good fit
for your son that you shouldn't worry about it. Don't trust what you read on this site
because the members here are all anti-program and have an agenda to discredit all
programs. If you want to contact me outside fornits I can help you get in contact with
someone who can help you make the right decision. You can email me at
[email protected]. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you.
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Why is any of this relevant? This forum is supposed to be a safe place for survivors. Why is this person given any attention? Don't you people see that you are feeding the monster? This whole place has turned into a debate/attack/advertisement for this person. Unless he is actually the person who runs this site, I don't see why he is allowed to take this whole thing over, as he has done.
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This forum is supposed to be a safe place for survivors.
Not necessarily. It's my understanding that it's meant to be a place for uncensored discussion of the industry. That may or may not be a "safe place for survivors," depending on where your mind is at.
There are moderated sections of fornits for those who prefer such, but the Aspen forum is not one of them.
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SECOND SMOKING GUN FOUND DIRECTLY BELOW...
Oh no no no Cindy, you claimed there was a "long debate" and that it was decided that "we" were only going to look at TBS's as you define them.
Who specifically is "we"?
The debate was long, Bob... many wanted to start with "Wilderness data" and I argued that the real money was in the TBS industry, so lets start there, although wilderness is usually the inital phase of any decent TBS. So we went round and round....you, Bob have been a key player in collecting and presenting data on the entire industry and I have been focusing on small segments at a time.
I dont want to put names out there, people want to be anon's.
Why are you concerned with "where the real money is," Whooter? Why would a "regular parent" travel 1200 miles from home to go to a TTI meeting to advise other attendees where the money's at in the troubled teen business?
You keep skipping over these questions, Whooter, but your silence speaks volumes. Whooter doesn't want anyone to talk about his DIRECT QUOTE above where he admits to the meeting he keeps denying and admits he's financially involved in the TTI which he keeps denying. Why would he deny his OWN PREVIOUS STATEMENTS?
The readers should know that Whooter is lying and trying to hide his involvement with the TTI. Why is he pretending NOT TO BE WHO HE IS???
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Why is any of this relevant?
Really good point, I have been thinking the same thing myself. None of this is relevant!! This whole thread is just a continuous attack on a single poster. They disagree with his views and have tried to discredit him the best they could by fabricating lies until he finally came out and defended himself. You would think this would be a safe place to speak your mind but if you step outside the majority point of view here on fornits you expose yourself to criticism and if you then continue to disagree with them then, like this whooter guy did, they may create a thread similar to this one and focus on discrediting “your” point of view also.
But all this is pettiness,I think the real troubling thought is if they are willing to go to these lengths (creating dedicated threads, making up lies, fabricating PM’s and posts, changing facts and dates etc.) because of a single poster how far are they willing to go to discredit an entire program that they hate?
Something to think about. For now I am going to just listen to those you are logged in so at least you know who you are talking to.
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SECOND SMOKING GUN FOUND DIRECTLY BELOW...
Why are you concerned with "where the real money is," Whooter? Why would a "regular parent" travel 1200 miles from home to go to a TTI meeting to advise other attendees where the money's at in the troubled teen business?
You keep skipping over these questions, Whooter, but your silence speaks volumes. Whooter doesn't want anyone to talk about his DIRECT QUOTE above where he admits to the meeting he keeps denying and admits he's financially involved in the TTI which he keeps denying. Why would he deny his OWN PREVIOUS STATEMENTS?
The readers should know that Whooter is lying and trying to hide his involvement with the TTI. Why is he pretending NOT TO BE WHO HE IS???
lol 2nd smoking gun!!! you have been smoked, packaged, documented, exposed and proven to be a liar...I am not even sure you can get "RMA Survivor" to hang with you any longer and he really loves this stuff. It will be interesting though we will have to wait and see. Maybe try writing another PM saying John Reuben was traveling at the same time, this may be a real "smoking gun". To the guy pretending to be me, posting as a guest: "Great job keeping the thread going , you have made them all look like idiots, great 2004 launch dioscovery"
Spoiler (dont read below here if you want to stay in suspense)
Hint: If you fix the dates this time on your next fabricated PM some of us might fall for it lol.
alright, carry on and have fun. Thats the important thing.
...
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Whooter,
Why do people resent you on this website?
Joel
Hi Joel, I am not sure I could answer that very easily. I will ramble off some thoughts:
I challenge peoples conclusions and the don’t like it. I ask for facts and they interpret it as I am calling them a liar. I take the unpopular point of view in the argument sometimes to play "devils advocate". I ask for equal treatment for survivors and program parents. I point out the successes that programs have produced and as a result am called a shill for the industry. If a child commits suicide many here will use the childs death as propaganda aginst a program (drawing their family into it) even though there is no evidence of the cause of the person taking their life and I challenge that. Many may feel cheated that my daughter benefitted from her stay in a program where they did not. I see myself as adding balance to a very biased and one-sided forum. I believe in looking at study results coming out of the industry where many here do not want to discuss facts and instead would rather put more energy into discrediting them then reading them and getting out what they can. I am received by being called a liar, troll, industry shill, EdCon, Aspen employee, John Reuben, Peter Forne, Alan Newman, Dirk Grey, Nazi……… But I am just a program parent.
The People who are basically out to discredit me, hide in the shadows because I have exposed them to be liars and they just want me to go away so they can come back up to the surface and continue their anti-program propaganda without accountability for their words.
People who are opened minded and dont mind a balanced and honest debate dont seem to have a problem with me.
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Whooter,
Why do people resent you on this website?
Joel
Hi Joel, I am not sure I could answer that very easily. I will ramble off some thoughts:
I challenge peoples conclusions and the don’t like it. I ask for facts and they interpret it as I am calling them a liar. I take the unpopular point of view in the argument sometimes to play "devils advocate". I ask for equal treatment for survivors and program parents. I point out the successes that programs have produced and as a result am called a shill for the industry. If a child commits suicide many here will use the childs death as propaganda aginst a program (drawing their family into it) even though there is no evidence of the cause of the person taking their life and I challenge that. Many may feel cheated that my daughter benefitted from her stay in a program where they did not. I see myself as adding balance to a very biased and one-sided forum. I believe in looking at study results coming out of the industry where many here do not want to discuss facts and instead would rather put more energy into discrediting them then reading them and getting out what they can. I am received by being called a liar, troll, industry shill, EdCon, Aspen employee, John Reuben, Peter Forne, Alan Newman, Dirk Grey, Nazi……… But I am just a program parent.
The People who are basically out to discredit me, hide in the shadows because I have exposed them to be liars and they just want me to go away so they can come back up to the surface and continue their anti-program propaganda without accountability for their words.
People who are opened minded and dont mind a balanced and honest debate dont seem to have a problem with me.
This is an honest debate. I really can't believe how afraid you are of your own thinking.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29442&start=0 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29442&start=0)
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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The IP's for onekidatatime and struggling teens are out of various areas of MA, Philly,PA., Stamford Ct. and Santa Ana, CA. all Reuben's stomping grounds(buisness and family), including Sunnyvale CA. He makes the rounds for STICCS(radio talks shows etc.)
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The IP's for onekidatatime and struggling teens are out of various areas of MA, Philly,PA., Stamford Ct. and Santa Ana, CA. all Reuben's stomping grounds(buisness and family), including Sunnyvale CA. He makes the rounds for STICCS(radio talks shows etc.)
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The IP's for onekidatatime and struggling teens are out of various areas of MA, Philly,PA., Stamford Ct. and Santa Ana, CA. all Reuben's stomping grounds(buisness and family), including Sunnyvale CA. He makes the rounds for STICCS(radio talks shows etc.)
So now I'm Lon too? Good luck proving that. It will be interesting though if you can come up with 46 more states lol.
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Whooter,
What is your role in STICC? If you could clarify, that would be helpful.
Someone somehow came to the conclusion that I was this Reuben guy from STICCs. Maybe because I am from Massachusetts and so is he. I think it would justify their hatred for me (in their own minds) if they could paint me as an EdCon or tie me to the industry somehow, but that will never happen because I am a program parent no more no less. The first time I heard of STICCs was here on fornits.
Joel, Look at the amount of effort that many here put into tearing me down with the false allegations, trumped up criminal records, stories and PM’s which were haphazardly written with the intent to make me look bad or somehow discredit my posts. Now if they are willing to go this far to discredit a program parent how far do you think they may go to discredit an entire program?
Until I saw this orchestrated effort against me I thought that most of the stories that survivors told here on fornits were mostly true and only a few would embellish them. But we obviously can all agree that we need to be more cautious of what we believe going forward based on these past events.
-
Whooter,
What is your role in STICC? If you could clarify, that would be helpful.
Someone somehow came to the conclusion that I was this Reuben guy from STICCs. Maybe because I am from Massachusetts and so is he. I think it would justify their hatred for me (in their own minds) if they could paint me as an EdCon or tie me to the industry somehow, but that will never happen because I am a program parent no more no less. The first time I heard of STICCs was here on fornits.
Joel, Look at the amount of effort that many here put into tearing me down with the false allegations, trumped up criminal records, stories and PM’s which were haphazardly written with the intent to make me look bad or somehow discredit my posts. Now if they are willing to go this far to discredit a program parent how far do you think they may go to discredit an entire program?
Until I saw this orchestrated effort against me I thought that most of the stories that survivors told here on fornits were mostly true and only a few would embellish them. But we obviously can all agree that we need to be more cautious of what we believe going forward based on these past events.
I have not done any of those things and you know it. You are living a lie Whooter. The reason you won't talk to me, instead of the others, is because you know it is a fight against yourself. Show us how much conviction you have in your words if at all. Come back, stop running, show us who you are.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29442&start=0 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=29442&start=0)
You're not trying to claim that I am treating you unethically are you?
-
SECOND SMOKING GUN FOUND DIRECTLY BELOW...
Oh no no no Cindy, you claimed there was a "long debate" and that it was decided that "we" were only going to look at TBS's as you define them.
Who specifically is "we"?
The debate was long, Bob... many wanted to start with "Wilderness data" and I argued that the real money was in the TBS industry, so lets start there, although wilderness is usually the inital phase of any decent TBS. So we went round and round....you, Bob have been a key player in collecting and presenting data on the entire industry and I have been focusing on small segments at a time.
I dont want to put names out there, people want to be anon's.
Why are you concerned with "where the real money is," Whooter? Why would a "regular parent" travel 1200 miles from home to go to a TTI meeting to advise other attendees where the money's at in the troubled teen business?
You keep skipping over these questions, Whooter, but your silence speaks volumes. Whooter doesn't want anyone to talk about his DIRECT QUOTE above where he admits to the meeting he keeps denying and admits he's financially involved in the TTI which he keeps denying. Why would he deny his OWN PREVIOUS STATEMENTS?
The readers should know that Whooter is lying and trying to hide his involvement with the TTI. Why is he pretending NOT TO BE WHO HE IS???
Interesting that Whooter failed to answer this question. He doesn't want to. Why? Because he already admitted to being a TTI player. It is proven by his own quote from his own account. Notice he steadfastly refuses to explain his comment.
Whooter, please explain your comments above and why you traveled 1200 miles from home for a TTI meeting if you have nothing to do with the TTI. You say you don't, but above you admit, and seem proud, to knowing "where the real money is, the TBS industry." Why do you hide that you are part of the TTI? This post was posted by you while logged in. You can't deny you said it, so tell us why you said that then and why you say now that you have no ties to the TTI.
Who were the "many" players at this meeting? Why did Whooter need to inform them where the real money is? What "regular parent" flys 1200 miles from home for a meeting with TTI players about "where the real money is"?
This is undeniable proof that Whooter lies about who he is and what he does for a living in the TTI.
All posters should redirect Whooter to this question until he explains himself.
-
Look, I couldnt hold back any longer, its been fun watching you guys tripping over your own underwear for weeks now trying to cover your own mistakes and changing your dates in a very poor effort in trying to tie me to this Reuben guy and to the industry. Actually I think many people really thought I was John Reuben until you started fabricating evidence lol.
Out of everyone here the only ones who fell for your efforts were the “Fantastic 4” (who believe what they are told to believe and never question anything)….. i.e. RMA Survivor, Ajax13, RobertBruce, Anne Boleyn and maybe a few new people. The rest of us saw that your dates were off by about three years, your links lead to dead ends or sound bites and if you go and check the date on your “smoking gun PM” you will see that June 6, 2007 was a Wednesday not a Friday as indicated by your post. Oh no!! Ha,Ha,Ha, (so we dont need psy to authenticate it I guess.)
Here is your smoking gun:
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=351905&sid=57e51153c7a722596045bdad98d4be3c&sid=57e51153c7a722596045bdad98d4be3c#p351905)
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent
Personally I think ASR is a good program. It worked for our family. My kid was there
when Dave Marcus wrote his book based on the kids in the program and they got back on
track and matured. I have been to the campus many times and think if it's a good fit
for your son that you shouldn't worry about it. Don't trust what you read on this site
because the members here are all anti-program and have an agenda to discredit all
programs. If you want to contact me outside fornits I can help you get in contact with
someone who can help you make the right decision. You can email me at
[email protected]. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you.
Holy Shit! You guys just made up the PM? You got balls. Looks like Whooter got the last laugh on that one. I would have never thought of checking the date like that.
-
SECOND SMOKING GUN FOUND DIRECTLY BELOW...
Oh no no no Cindy, you claimed there was a "long debate" and that it was decided that "we" were only going to look at TBS's as you define them.
Who specifically is "we"?
The debate was long, Bob... many wanted to start with "Wilderness data" and I argued that the real money was in the TBS industry, so lets start there, although wilderness is usually the inital phase of any decent TBS. So we went round and round....you, Bob have been a key player in collecting and presenting data on the entire industry and I have been focusing on small segments at a time.
I dont want to put names out there, people want to be anon's.
Why are you concerned with "where the real money is," Whooter? Why would a "regular parent" travel 1200 miles from home to go to a TTI meeting to advise other attendees where the money's at in the troubled teen business?
You keep skipping over these questions, Whooter, but your silence speaks volumes. Whooter doesn't want anyone to talk about his DIRECT QUOTE above where he admits to the meeting he keeps denying and admits he's financially involved in the TTI which he keeps denying. Why would he deny his OWN PREVIOUS STATEMENTS?
The readers should know that Whooter is lying and trying to hide his involvement with the TTI. Why is he pretending NOT TO BE WHO HE IS???
Interesting that Whooter failed to answer this question. He doesn't want to. Why? Because he already admitted to being a TTI player. It is proven by his own quote from his own account. Notice he steadfastly refuses to explain his comment.
Whooter, please explain your comments above and why you traveled 1200 miles from home for a TTI meeting if you have nothing to do with the TTI. You say you don't, but above you admit, and seem proud, to knowing "where the real money is, the TBS industry." Why do you hide that you are part of the TTI? This post was posted by you while logged in. You can't deny you said it, so tell us why you said that then and why you say now that you have no ties to the TTI.
Who were the "many" players at this meeting? Why did Whooter need to inform them where the real money is? What "regular parent" flys 1200 miles from home for a meeting with TTI players about "where the real money is"?
This is undeniable proof that Whooter lies about who he is and what he does for a living in the TTI.
All posters should redirect Whooter to this question until he explains himself.
Let's deal with the provable, shall we? Above is an original post from TheWho saying clearly he IS an industry player. People deserve to have his explanation why he denies what he has already admitted.
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THIRD SMOKING GUN FOUND DIRECTLY BELOW...
So Cindy, fess up and answer me one question. "Are you an Industry Player"
Yes, I am.
Try to wiggle out of that one Whooter!! Are you going to deny it? Do you have proof you didnt say this? Remember you need to prove it Cindy otherwise the post is true.
-
After reading all these threads and the threads before them, I see a lot of compelling evidence that The Who is John Reuben. Some of the evidence might not be backed up by the most solid of evidence, but much of it is backed up by enough evidence to make the weaker arguments stronger and believable.
If The Who was arrested in both Boston and Ann Arbor during the same time frames, that would be get most people to believe the two are likely one and the same as the two locations are geographically distant enough to make a coincidence less likely. Then add in the PM from The Who to Concerned Parent, which I believe was authentic, and the email address given is the same for John Rueben... These two connections, unlikely to be mere coincidence, compel me to believe the The Who and John Reuben are one and the same.
I cant believe you are still falling for all of this stuff RMA. Even after Whooter showed the PM to be false you still are buying into this? Have you actually looked at the time frames when thewo was arrested and Reuben was arrested or are you just going on blind faith that the guest poster is telling the truth. If he lied about the PM what would keep him from lying about the arrest record?
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I base my conclusion on the fact I know he is an industry cheer leader. Arrest records, PM's... I just watch what he writes, see how he doesn't answer direct questions, posts as other people to conceal his identity, uses Guest a lot to support his own posts. The guy is a fake. Nothing he says is credible. He can deny all of the original poster's evidence all he wants. It doesn't change my perception of him. He can't prove to me any of the original poster's evidence was false, but he has already proven to me what he is through his endless posts. All of his posts reveal who he is and what he is about. A joke. It's all double-speak and flipping the argument or keeping the thread about him and not on the topic. Even in this thread, which is about him.
You ask him a simple and direct question and you get a convoluted bunch of nonsense back. Never an answer. Never direct. And I honestly don't care who he really is. But I sure don't buy that he is simply a concerned parent. I read the threads and decided it made enough sense. And I didn't see how the PM was proven false and don't care. But none of it matters to me. I watch what he posts, and I see nothing of value there. When he tries to spin things in to a pro-program light, it always comes off as so poorly done. Whooter writes so poorly and has such poorly conceived arguments, I know nobody buys in to his tirades and cheer leading. He just does it so poorly it is laughable. And the anger and abuse he spews out doesn't help him any. People who read his posts can see that he has issues. That he isn't well. That there is clearly something wrong with him. And with him representing the programs, we can't lose. He is the best advertisement we have that the programs are bad because the people who are associated with them are abusive, uneducated and deceitful. Just as he is.
The methods he uses on this site are now so predictable. Cutting and pasting a line here or there of a long post, to nit-pick some minor point, ignoring the core of the argument in favor of the trivial. Going on and on about the most insignificant things to try and prove what he thinks is some profound point, all the while ignoring the real point being discussed. Children do that. Liars do it too. He is just so evasive, and so obviously evasive that everything he posts comes off as dumb. And childish dumb. But just as often, hurtful and abusive. Just like the programs themselves. It is so revealing, which is why I don't need someone to show me proof. I don't care if he is John Reuben or not. I decided some time back that he was just an industry cheer leader, cheering for an industry I find causes harm to kids, including myself once when I was a teen. And just as I am convinced of what he is, I am not going to be convinced the programs aren't harming children.
I actually went to a program, so I know what it is like. And when I read survivor stories, I know they are true because I saw the same stuff happen when I was there. I don't need to have evidence to compel me to believe survivor stories. I read them or listen to them and I can judge for myself what seems credible and what doesn't, based on my own experiences and observations while I was in a program. If a story included aliens and UFO's landing, I can assume the story isn't real. But when a survivor talks about being sexually abused by staff, well, I saw and knew those things happened when I was there. When survivors talk about forced labor, well, I did forced labor as well. When they talk about loud raps, well, I sat in a couple of hundred myself. So I possess the first-hand experience to help me discern truth from fiction. I don't need evidence. I am not a court of law. I am not a judge or a jury. I am capable of making up my own mind about things and I made up my mind about Whooter many moons ago.
Whooter on the other hand appears to dismiss all survivor stories. From a logical standpoint, that is not realistic. There is simply no probability that survivor stories would all be wrong. Nor would it be realistic to think all stories of abuse are wrong. It is Whooter who demands proof. I am not sure why anyone bothered to try and provide some. It just isn't necessary. Survivors aren't looking for proof. And their stories are enough to convince investigators in places like Oregon that their experiences are real and based on facts. These programs are getting shut down one by one. And they are being shut down for the reasons we say they are. Abuse. Lack of treatment. Harmful activities advertised as real therapy. Things we survivors already knew. We didn't need Oregon to prove anything to us. Shutting down CEDU and RMA, MBA and any other program is great, but we don't need it to serve as proof for us. Maybe proof to the rest of the world, but we're already convinced. We simply appreciate that they finally took action. But Whooter actually thinks that every time he posts a response to every single post on these boards, that somehow he will convince the world that we are all crazy and not to trust anything we say. Does anyone really think his methods are meeting with success? People who might drop by this site looking for information on the industry are likely to all be adults. Parents, state agencies. People fully capable of seeing and identifying an industry shill. Someone who is obviously working an angle. And then they would read the endless survivor stories and match it up to what they have already seen and heard and like me... come to their own conclusions.
I just don't know why anyone thought it was really necessary to prove Whooter was an industry cheer leader. Or that revealing him as John Reuben or anyone else was needed. I couldn't give two shits about the guy. I am not on Fornits to try and convince him of anything. I am here mainly to share my story, hear about other survivor experiences and maybe get the word out to parents and government agencies that these places are bad. And Whooter helps.
-
I didn't see how the PM was proven false .....
if you go and check the date on your “smoking gun PM” you will see that June 6, 2007 was a Wednesday not a Friday as indicated by your post. Whooops. But whooter said it better in his post when he reveled your lie.
-
Here it is below:
Look, I couldnt hold back any longer, its been fun watching you guys tripping over your own underwear for weeks now trying to cover your own mistakes and changing your dates in a very poor effort in trying to tie me to this Reuben guy and to the industry. Actually I think many people really thought I was John Reuben until you started fabricating evidence lol.
Out of everyone here the only ones who fell for your efforts were the “Fantastic 4” (who believe what they are told to believe and never question anything)….. i.e. RMA Survivor, Ajax13, RobertBruce, Anne Boleyn and maybe a few new people. The rest of us saw that your dates were off by about three years, your links lead to dead ends or sound bites and if you go and check the date on your “smoking gun PM” you will see that June 6, 2007 was a Wednesday not a Friday as indicated by your post. Oh no!! Ha,Ha,Ha, (so we dont need psy to authenticate it I guess.)
Here is your smoking gun:
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=351905&sid=ac9f7c3583570e9d09e59cba1885da00&sid=ac9f7c3583570e9d09e59cba1885da00#p351905)
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent
Personally I think ASR is a good program. It worked for our family. My kid was there
when Dave Marcus wrote his book based on the kids in the program and they got back on
track and matured. I have been to the campus many times and think if it's a good fit
for your son that you shouldn't worry about it. Don't trust what you read on this site
because the members here are all anti-program and have an agenda to discredit all
programs. If you want to contact me outside fornits I can help you get in contact with
someone who can help you make the right decision. You can email me at
[email protected]. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you.
-
I actually went to a program, so I know what it is like. ..... I don't need to have evidence
We know, and look where that got you. You should try to raise your expectations a little and ask for at least a link to an original post before you play follow the leader and get yourself lead around by your emotions. It made you look foolish, RMA.
-
See what I mean? Childish arguments based on one line from a long post. So predictable. It's why you don't need evidence. I predicted the response, and it arrived in like ten minutes. It's really the best advertisement we have.
-
See what I mean? Childish arguments based on one line from a long post. So predictable. It's why you don't need evidence. I predicted the response, and it arrived in like ten minutes. It's really the best advertisement we have.
You deem it childish because you got caught in a lie. Your post was so long we all started to wonder who you were trying to convince... yourself or the readers LOL. Dont sweat it RMA, we still like you. Just try to be more honest is all we ask. You have done more damage than good with your efforts to discredit others.
-
Oh no, now I have to argue with you some more... Because you said I lied and then didn't post the link to it? Oh dear... Should I demand evidence? Is that the direction of your silly little argument? Nobody here cares about you. Nobody here really wants to prove anything to you. But we love having you around because you make our work so much easier. Mr. Predictable. If you can't come up with a more creative name than Guest, or more creative posts, than may I suggest Mr. Predictable? If it is too hard to spell, try using the cut and paste feature. But you don't really have to go through all the that effort. We all know you when we see you. We don't even need evidence to know when a Guest posts and when you post as a Guest. We just know. Almost like we're psychic. Spooky, eh?
-
Oh No!! I thought RMA didnt need links to make him a believer. He just believes whatever everyone tells him too. lol
Look, I couldnt hold back any longer, its been fun watching you guys tripping over your own underwear for weeks now trying to cover your own mistakes and changing your dates in a very poor effort in trying to tie me to this Reuben guy and to the industry. Actually I think many people really thought I was John Reuben until you started fabricating evidence lol.
Out of everyone here the only ones who fell for your efforts were the “Fantastic 4” (who believe what they are told to believe and never question anything)….. i.e. RMA Survivor, Ajax13, RobertBruce, Anne Boleyn and maybe a few new people. The rest of us saw that your dates were off by about three years, your links lead to dead ends or sound bites and if you go and check the date on your “smoking gun PM” you will see that June 6, 2007 was a Wednesday not a Friday as indicated by your post. Oh no!! Ha,Ha,Ha, (so we dont need psy to authenticate it I guess.)
Here is your smoking gun:
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=351905&sid=bea73e76cd517fd118cb2f8c4425a590&sid=bea73e76cd517fd118cb2f8c4425a590#p351905)
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent
Personally I think ASR is a good program. It worked for our family. My kid was there
when Dave Marcus wrote his book based on the kids in the program and they got back on
track and matured. I have been to the campus many times and think if it's a good fit
for your son that you shouldn't worry about it. Don't trust what you read on this site
because the members here are all anti-program and have an agenda to discredit all
programs. If you want to contact me outside fornits I can help you get in contact with
someone who can help you make the right decision. You can email me at
[email protected]. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you.
-
And this is proof of what? People should care about this....why?
-
I didn't see how the PM was proven false .....
Whooooops....LOL
-
A silly little troll wrote Whooooops....LOL... Which is to be expected.
And people care about this....why?
-
And this is proof of what? People should care about this....why?
You cared about it alot until it was proven false. Funny how that works, Hmmmm.
-
The PM is further proof that thewho is John Reuben. I believe the PM to be authentic.
Sorry to inform you, RMA Survivor, but the PM was just fabricated by a guest. "Whooter" proved this awhile ago.
Who cares about the PM anyway, no one does, this is just silly.
I predicted that response....... he goes the way the wind blows.
-
Link to TheWho's admission he is an industry guy and knows "where the real money is, the TBS industry". (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1470#p245461) Check it out.
Keep asking Whooter to explain this post until you get an answer. He wrote it, logged in with his username, and the link points right to it. He can't deny it, so he avoids it, lols.
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THIRD SMOKING GUN FOUND DIRECTLY BELOW...
So Cindy, fess up and answer me one question. "Are you an Industry Player"
Yes, I am.
Try to wiggle out of that one Whooter!! Are you going to deny it? Do you have proof you didnt say this? Remember you need to prove it Cindy otherwise the post is true.
We have him nailed on that one. So we can conclude he is an industry player. Thewho never came out to deny this post so that is as good as an admittance. Sorry Cindy, you lose!!
-
Link to TheWho's admission he is an industry guy and knows "where the real money is, the TBS industry". (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1470#p245461) Check it out.
Keep asking Whooter to explain this post until you get an answer. He wrote it, logged in with his username, and the link points right to it. He can't deny it, so he avoids it, lols.
Skipped it again to post some quote he himself altered to try to make it look like we did. Sad. This link ^^right here^^ is a link to an original post by Whooter. He can't explain it or deny it, so he avoids it altogether. He's a sneaky, greasy weasel, but this thread shows clearly exactly what he is: a LIAR.
Please explain this original post of yours, Whooter. Why do you care where the money is? Why did you travel 1200 miles from your home to teach your colleagues "where the real money is"? We're all ears for your explanation.
-
THIRD SMOKING GUN FOUND DIRECTLY BELOW...
So Cindy, fess up and answer me one question. "Are you an Industry Player"
Yes, I am.
Try to wiggle out of that one Whooter!! Are you going to deny it? Do you have proof you didnt say this? Remember you need to prove it Cindy otherwise the post is true.
We have him nailed on that one. So we can conclude he is an industry player. Thewho never came out to deny this post so that is as good as an admittance. Sorry Cindy, you lose!!
Come on Cindy, just come out and deny you said this. I challenge you. You think you are so smart trying to put up that last post as a decoy. Try to explain why you said you were an industry player. Either you were lying then or lying now. I am not putting the link up until you admit to it or deny it.
The clock is ticking......... tick, tick, tick.
-
This is my point. It's like we're now trying to convince ourselves that Whooter is an industry player? Why did we need this proved? Why do we need to be convinced again? Maybe a long time ago people might have still been wondering, but not today. He is clearly a shill. I can't see anyone coming to this site and coming away thinking any differently. I just don't see the value in trying to prove he is one, or that he is John Reuben or anyone else. A shill is a shill. If his shilling was done in a good light, with legitimate remarks, wise comments, lots of profound insight, even friendly, maybe that would be something else and visitors to this site might think he is a good and decent person. But he doesn't. And I don't think anyone would read his posts and come away thinking anything other than that he is a shill and a bad one at that. That he causes more damage to the industry he represents every single time he posts. He helps our cause. He is probably the best free and replenishing resource we have on this site. His abusive behavior, twisted logic, avoidance of direct answers is what we want people to see about the industry as a whole. This is the sort of person who lures parents in to sending their kids away with false hopes and false promises. Lying and deceiving them in to thinking there is legitimate therapy and counseling to be had at these programs. Getting them to believe there are well trained staff working there. When they see how deceptive and abusive he is here, they will be less likely to send their kids...there. And they will see that he is all about where the money is. Not about helping kids. His abusive language here, his laughing at the tragic stories told by survivors, is just endless proof of how truly sick the people in this industry are. They sincerely believe that humiliating people and abusing them is good for them. And parents will see this. And they will decide for themselves whether they want their child involved with such people.
But as much as I find the effort to prove something a waste of time, I don't knock the thread itself. The more we get Whooter to talk and post, the better it is for us over all. Everything he says is just so amazingly dumb, full of anger, abuse and sadism that people seeing what he is about, what the industry is about, can only help us. Got to love free advertising.
-
This is my point. It's like we're now trying to convince ourselves that Whooter is an industry player? Why did we need this proved? Why do we need to be convinced again? Maybe a long time ago people might have still been wondering, but not today. He is clearly a shill. I can't see anyone coming to this site and coming away thinking any differently. I just don't see the value in trying to prove he is one, or that he is John Reuben or anyone else. A shill is a shill. If his shilling was done in a good light, with legitimate remarks, wise comments, lots of profound insight, even friendly, maybe that would be something else and visitors to this site might think he is a good and decent person. But he doesn't. And I don't think anyone would read his posts and come away thinking anything other than that he is a shill and a bad one at that. That he causes more damage to the industry he represents every single time he posts. He helps our cause. He is probably the best free and replenishing resource we have on this site. His abusive behavior, twisted logic, avoidance of direct answers is what we want people to see about the industry as a whole. This is the sort of person who lures parents in to sending their kids away with false hopes and false promises. Lying and deceiving them in to thinking there is legitimate therapy and counseling to be had at these programs. Getting them to believe there are well trained staff working there. When they see how deceptive and abusive he is here, they will be less likely to send their kids...there. And they will see that he is all about where the money is. Not about helping kids. His abusive language here, his laughing at the tragic stories told by survivors, is just endless proof of how truly sick the people in this industry are. They sincerely believe that humiliating people and abusing them is good for them. And parents will see this. And they will decide for themselves whether they want their child involved with such people.
But as much as I find the effort to prove something a waste of time, I don't knock the thread itself. The more we get Whooter to talk and post, the better it is for us over all. Everything he says is just so amazingly dumb, full of anger, abuse and sadism that people seeing what he is about, what the industry is about, can only help us. Got to love free advertising.
I am sorry this whole thing has been such a bad experience for you, RMS Survivor. We all have read in your post how frustrated you are. If it helps any I have seen that you have matured a bit since coming to fornits. You no longer are purging anger and calling people names like you did initially when you were shown to be wrong or lost an argument and you have also developed a capacity for listening to others more. I fully understand that people believe I am an industry person. It helps to place a person that doesn’t agree with you in a bad light (at least in your mind) if you are unsure of your own position or cannot easily defend your views. I have been given credit for more guest posts then I could count, Ha,Ha,Ha. I will be reading through a thread and someone will make a comment that doesn’t agree with the group here and the guest is automatically called “TheWho or Whooter” and people gang up on him/her. It is quite amusing sometimes. But enough of me……
It is easy to see that you are frustrated, RMA, and I believe it is because you jumped on the band wagon and were exposed trying to falsify information. I think it is a good learning experience for you and a mentality to be overcome, though, and I can almost guarantee that the next time you will double check the facts before hanging you hat on them which will further help you in the future. Anyone who knows me here knows that I don’t take any of this personally (my avatar is bullet proof as is everyones) and my intentions are only to add balance to this forum, which to date it is apparent that it has born fruit based on your change and approach to discussions recently and others like you. People are taking a more realistic approach to programs and not just calling them Gulags and trying to shut them all down and there has been a shift(albeit slight) away from this program bashing and moving more towards putting a focus on helping the kids. If I can accomplish opening up a few minds here, neutralizing some of the group dynamics (which isn’t healthy) and help parents make a well informed decision for their child and family, by my reaching out, then I feel I am adding value. If I am helping in other ways, i.e. free advertising like you suggested lol, then this can only lead to more readers (not less) and that is a plus for all of us.
RMA,You should continue to do what you think is right, because that is what is important over anything else, but stay on your new path of having more of an open mind. This will continue to reduce your anger and raise your understanding of those around you who you agree with and especially those you don’t.
Bottom line is we are all enjoying ourselves and making a difference.......otherwise we would leave. There is no one holding us here, right?
...
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Whooter, explain again how you're going to sue when your bosses at Correlsense find out about Aspen, STICC and your Fornits work. That was a highly amusing melt-down you had once faced with that prospect. Remember Whooter, you're not experiencing the same reality as the rest of us due to your illness, so your interpretations of circumstances are often wrong. Whatever possessed you to think that your bosses would be sent a list of Aspen closures, investigations and client deaths; your criminal record, a brief account of STICC's relationship to Aspen, and a sampling of your Fornits work; via e-mail? That kind of documentation's gotta roll in the old fashioned way. We all like to make a difference while we enjoy ourselves, right Johnny?
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Link to TheWho's admission he is an industry guy and knows "where the real money is, the TBS industry". (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1470#p245461) Check it out.
Keep asking Whooter to explain this post until you get an answer. He wrote it, logged in with his username, and the link points right to it. He can't deny it, so he avoids it, lols.
Skipped it again to post some quote he himself altered to try to make it look like we did. Sad. This link ^^right here^^ is a link to an original post by Whooter. He can't explain it or deny it, so he avoids it altogether. He's a sneaky, greasy weasel, but this thread shows clearly exactly what he is: a LIAR.
Please explain this original post of yours, Whooter. Why do you care where the money is? Why did you travel 1200 miles from your home to teach your colleagues "where the real money is"? We're all ears for your explanation.
I notice you skipped this again, Whooter. Why would you troll trying to pose as RobertBruce instead of answering this simple question?
There's no denying you wrote it. It's from your user account. So why don't you just explain it for the rest of us?
Who was at the meeting? Why were you there? How do you know "where the real money is" in the TTI and why do you care? Why would a "regular parent" travel 1200 miles to an industry meeting if he has nothing to do with the industry? I can't seem to make sense of your statements then and your denials now. Clear it up for the readers, Whooter.
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THIRD SMOKING GUN FOUND DIRECTLY BELOW...
So Cindy, fess up and answer me one question. "Are you an Industry Player"
Yes, I am.
Try to wiggle out of that one Whooter!! Are you going to deny it? Do you have proof you didnt say this? Remember you need to prove it Cindy otherwise the post is true.
We have him nailed on that one. So we can conclude he is an industry player. Thewho never came out to deny this post so that is as good as an admittance. Sorry Cindy, you lose!!
Come on Cindy, just come out and deny you said this. I challenge you. You think you are so smart trying to put up that last post as a decoy. Try to explain why you said you were an industry player. Either you were lying then or lying now. I am not putting the link up until you admit to it or deny it.
The clock is ticking......... tick, tick, tick.
Still waiting Cindy!!
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Whatever possessed you to think that your bosses would be sent a list of Aspen closures, investigations and client deaths; your criminal record, a brief account of STICC's relationship to Aspen, and a sampling of your Fornits work; via e-mail?
Are you suggesting that someone has this information and *hasn't* sent it to his bosses?
DO IT FAGGOT
DO IT FAGGOT
DO IT FAGGOT
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Arguments go downhill once the homophobic slander comes in to play. Let's have a debate, but a clean one. There are plenty of people on this site who are part of the gay or lesbian community, let's not be insulting to them. There's plenty of foul language available, no need to use the foulest.
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Whatever possessed you to think that your bosses would be sent a list of Aspen closures, investigations and client deaths; your criminal record, a brief account of STICC's relationship to Aspen, and a sampling of your Fornits work; via e-mail?
Are you suggesting that someone has this information and *hasn't* sent it to his bosses?
If you dislike this guy so much and you have all this information on him and it bothers you what would possess you to just sit on it? Why not do something with it instead of talking about it on the internet? It always amazes me why people talk about all this criminal activity and abuse but no one ever does anything about it.
Its like Ajax13, he talked about this guy Vause for weeks and months on end and had all kinds of questions about where this money went… why his son plays hockey, were they a treatment center or a boarding school , why Vause choose the major he did etc. etc. Ajax would ask these questions over and over on this forum but never thought to take a drive over and ask Vause himself. Is that like the strangest thing, its almost like a condition of some type. If I have a question for Ginger then I would ask Ginger, why would I ask 50 other people when the only person who has the answer is Ginger? Anyway, sorry I’m off topic again.
But my point is if you want to do something just do it. I have always been a firm believer that you have to do what you think is right. Talking about it over and over again here just makes you look foolish.
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Link to TheWho's admission he is an industry guy and knows "where the real money is, the TBS industry". (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1470#p245461) Check it out.
Keep asking Whooter to explain this post until you get an answer. He wrote it, logged in with his username, and the link points right to it. He can't deny it, so he avoids it, lols.
Skipped it again to post some quote he himself altered to try to make it look like we did. Sad. This link ^^right here^^ is a link to an original post by Whooter. He can't explain it or deny it, so he avoids it altogether. He's a sneaky, greasy weasel, but this thread shows clearly exactly what he is: a LIAR.
Please explain this original post of yours, Whooter. Why do you care where the money is? Why did you travel 1200 miles from your home to teach your colleagues "where the real money is"? We're all ears for your explanation.
I notice you skipped this again, Whooter. Why would you troll trying to pose as RobertBruce instead of answering this simple question?
There's no denying you wrote it. It's from your user account. So why don't you just explain it for the rest of us?
Who was at the meeting? Why were you there? How do you know "where the real money is" in the TTI and why do you care? Why would a "regular parent" travel 1200 miles to an industry meeting if he has nothing to do with the industry? I can't seem to make sense of your statements then and your denials now. Clear it up for the readers, Whooter.
Whooter, I see you posted again, but avoided this question again as well. Why do you respond by trolling instead of just answering this simple question? Not answering leads us to believe you don't deny it and afffirm it as true.
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THIRD SMOKING GUN FOUND DIRECTLY BELOW...
So Cindy, fess up and answer me one question. "Are you an Industry Player"
Yes, I am.
Try to wiggle out of that one Whooter!! Are you going to deny it? Do you have proof you didnt say this? Remember you need to prove it Cindy otherwise the post is true.
We have him nailed on that one. So we can conclude he is an industry player. Thewho never came out to deny this post so that is as good as an admittance. Sorry Cindy, you lose!!
Come on Cindy, just come out and deny you said this. I challenge you. You think you are so smart trying to put up that last post as a decoy. Try to explain why you said you were an industry player. Either you were lying then or lying now. I am not putting the link up until you admit to it or deny it.
The clock is ticking......... tick, tick, tick.
Cindy, we are not going away until you answer these questions. Read the above post and explain to all of us how you are not an industry player. We all know you are we just want to here you say it.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Link to TheWho's admission he is an industry guy and knows "where the real money is, the TBS industry". (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1470#p245461) Check it out.
Keep asking Whooter to explain this post until you get an answer. He wrote it, logged in with his username, and the link points right to it. He can't deny it, so he avoids it, lols.
Consistently avoiding this topic, eh, Whooter. I noticed you keep posting some phony quote you try to attribute to other posters, but the one ^^right above^^ has a link that goes directly to one of your posts. Why do you keep posting a quote you altered and that has no link instead of dealing with the reality that you made the above comment in 2007 and you deny being part of the TTI now? Tell us about your meeting. Who was there with you? Why were you in a TTI meeting? Why do you care about all the money to be made in TBSs? What's your stake? Let's face it, you wouldn't have made this comment if you were "just a regular parent" would you? Why are you deceiving the readers about your role in the TTI?
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THIRD SMOKING GUN FOUND DIRECTLY BELOW...
So Cindy, fess up and answer me one question. "Are you an Industry Player"
Yes, I am.
Try to wiggle out of that one Whooter!! Are you going to deny it? Do you have proof you didnt say this? Remember you need to prove it Cindy otherwise the post is true.
We have him nailed on that one. So we can conclude he is an industry player. Thewho never came out to deny this post so that is as good as an admittance. Sorry Cindy, you lose!!
Come on Cindy, just come out and deny you said this. I challenge you. You think you are so smart trying to put up that last post as a decoy. Try to explain why you said you were an industry player. Either you were lying then or lying now. I am not putting the link up until you admit to it or deny it.
The clock is ticking......... tick, tick, tick.
Cindy, we are not going away until you answer these questions. Read the above post and explain to all of us how you are not an industry player. We all know you are we just want to here you say it.
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Whooter,
If I were you, I would not respond to anymore people in this thread. Fornits members are convinced you're a TTI player. I don't know if you're involved in the TTI and could care less if you are. They will continue to drag this thread out at your expense. If you choose to respond, which I don't think you should, keep your answers short. For example, keep your responses no longer than three lines. Use their anger against them. You write short answers and they'll write long winded responses full of bullshit.
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whooter has cornered the market on
long winded responses full of bullshit.
It's called repetition compulsion. :twofinger:
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Link to TheWho's admission he is an industry guy and knows "where the real money is, the TBS industry". (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1470#p245461) Check it out.
Keep asking Whooter to explain this post until you get an answer. He wrote it, logged in with his username, and the link points right to it. He can't deny it, so he avoids it, lols.
Consistently avoiding this topic, eh, Whooter. I noticed you keep posting some phony quote you try to attribute to other posters, but the one ^^right above^^ has a link that goes directly to one of your posts. Why do you keep posting a quote you altered and that has no link instead of dealing with the reality that you made the above comment in 2007 and you deny being part of the TTI now? Tell us about your meeting. Who was there with you? Why were you in a TTI meeting? Why do you care about all the money to be made in TBSs? What's your stake? Let's face it, you wouldn't have made this comment if you were "just a regular parent" would you? Why are you deceiving the readers about your role in the TTI?
click the link above to see whooter, in his own words, admit he's financially involved in the tti.
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Whooter is probably laughing his ass off because you idiots keep writing three page responses full of crap. I would be laughing my ass of if I were Whooter. Whooter let these fools complain for 30 more pages.
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Exactly, The customer is the parent, the product is the child. The schools will respond primarily/initially to the needs of the parent not the child...
Whooter has big problems. Here he admits the child's needs won't be responded to because the program caters to the parents' needs, not the child's. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1395#p245213)
"the product is the child" Oh, my God. This is a very sick and twisted individual to think this way!
Any explanation of this quote, Whooter? Or will you just dodge and evade everything you've ever posted before?
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Whooter got caught again, huh? He comes right out and admits programs don't help kids. In fact, they don't even try, according to Whooter. He's a sad, sad troll and shill...
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Whooter is probably laughing his ass off because you idiots keep writing three page responses full of crap. I would be laughing my ass of if I were Whooter. Whooter let these fools complain for 30 more pages.
This comes up every six months or so Lol…I have been a pedophile from Delaware…..I have been a serial killer from the Midwest…… an EdCon from Virginia… Lon Woodbury…I was this guy named Peter… a director of a program…. An EdCon named Alan Newman….Several others and now, apparently, I am this guy named John Reuben. I am use to this. The same posters that are hounding me for answers today are the same ones I proved wrong prior to this, but they keep trying to figure out who I am for some reason. I think eventually they will give up, but it is fun to watch the desperation and repeated postings. I have no clue why, I don’t have any desire to figure out the identity of the posters here so I cant really relate to their mentality in all of this. I view most people here through their avatar. But I am sure there is a reason for their drive and efforts to go beyond this. It must be important for them putting in so much effort and all.
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Exactly, The customer is the parent, the product is the child. The schools will respond primarily/initially to the needs of the parent not the child...
Whooter has big problems. Here he admits the child's needs won't be responded to because the program caters to the parents' needs, not the child's. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1395#p245213)
"the product is the child" Oh, my God. This is a very sick and twisted individual to think this way!
Any explanation of this quote, Whooter? Or will you just dodge and evade everything you've ever posted before?
Whooter, if you're a "regular parent" why do you call children "products"? Why are you concerned with "where the real money is, the TBS industry"? Sounds pretty fishy...
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I always thought thewho was a shit until now. I read most of the stuff about him was just made up.
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Really? I don't understand how anyone could draw the conclusion "everything" was "made up." I guess you didn't click on the links that go directly to Whooter's original posts, huh? Not sure how you could have "missed" them, since they're posted every other post in this and several other threads. Hmmm..."who" would be motivated to try to avoid those posts by Whooter? LOLS.
Whooter wrote them, so Whooter has to own them. Remember, it was Whooter that said "the product is the child"! He's got some real mental issues! and he hates being held accountable for anything, especially his OWN WORDS! Hahahahaha.
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I am sure you could search any persons name and find a few words written in a row which makes the writer seem mentally ill. What is the purpose of attacking this person? It reassures me that I have not written here under any user name.
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What will Correlsense do about John Reuben's activities as Whooter/theWho/Guest?
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I followed the link and the conversation is interesting. I cant say I agree with thewho that the children are the product. The program is the product that is being sold to the parents. The parents are the customers.
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I followed the link and the conversation is interesting. I cant say I agree with thewho that the children are the product. The program is the product that is being sold to the parents. The parents are the customers.
Well, I can see your point. But look at it like a pediatric Dentist office. The dentists provide a service to the children. The dentist would design and market to the parents who are paying the bill, therefore the parents are the customers and the children are the product receiving the dental service.
So utilizing the same logic the program is providing a service to the parents by modifying the childs behavior. Therefore the child is the “product” receiving the service from the program. But all the marketing efforts, by the program, are designed to target the parents because they are the ones with the money and ultimately would make the decision, so therefore they are the customer.
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I followed the link and the conversation is interesting. I cant say I agree with thewho that the children are the product. The program is the product that is being sold to the parents. The parents are the customers.
Well, I can see your point. But look at it like a pediatric Dentist office. The dentists provide a service to the children. The dentist would design and market to the parents who are paying the bill, therefore the parents are the customers and the children are the product receiving the dental service.
So utilizing the same logic the program is providing a service to the parents by modifying the childs behavior. Therefore the child is the “product” receiving the service from the program. But all the marketing efforts, by the program, are designed to target the parents because they are the ones with the money and ultimately would make the decision, so therefore they are the customer.
quoted for insanity / evil preservation
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The Dentist office would probably also be licensed, the Dentist having gone to college to get a degree in the field. The Dentist would perform the Dental work, the assistants would not be performing work requiring a Dentist license. Poor analogy. But expected.
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The Dentist office would probably also be licensed, the Dentist having gone to college to get a degree in the field. The Dentist would perform the Dental work, the assistants would not be performing work requiring a Dentist license. Poor analogy. But expected.
You missed the point. The subject was comparing the use of the word “Customer & Product”. The analogy, which I choose, utilized the source Dentist office. Lol
Lets say we were utilizing the word “Honest” and I said in that sense that Ursus was as “honest” as Abe Lincoln. Would this mean that you (RMA Survivor) could be justified in getting angry and saying this was a poor analogy because Ursus isn’t Tall or does not have a beard or stove hat or that Ursus was not president? No, it means you don’t understand analogies.
Read up on analogies and then read the post again concentrating on how it relates to the word “Customer/Product” and then pose your argument from that standpoint, I would be glad to discuss it with you.
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You're a sick fuck, Whooter. You lure in unsuspecting parents with promises of "help" and "therapy" but when we strip that veneer away we can all clearly see you view children as products and your programs (Aspen) offer no therapy whatsoever.
What "value" do you "add" here, Whooter? Why are you so concerned with "where the real money is, the TBS industry"? Why do you call children "products"? Why do you go to TTI meetings 1200 miles from home to educate your peers how to get the money in the TBS industry? We're all waiting for you to explain how this squares with your claim you are "just a regular parent." Sorry, but that doesn't even pass the smell test, Whooter.
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You're a sick fuck, Whooter. You lure in unsuspecting parents with promises of "help" and "therapy" but when we strip that veneer away we can all clearly see you view children as products and your programs (Aspen) offer no therapy whatsoever.
What "value" do you "add" here, Whooter? Why are you so concerned with "where the real money is, the TBS industry"? Why do you call children "products"? Why do you go to TTI meetings 1200 miles from home to educate your peers how to get the money in the TBS industry? We're all waiting for you to explain how this squares with your claim you are "just a regular parent." Sorry, but that doesn't even pass the smell test, Whooter.
I would nt responf if I were Whooter because people use abusive language on a frequent basis. For example, guest wrote "You're a sick fuck, Whooter." This is abusive language.
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What will the response be at Correlsense when they get a load of John D. "Whooter" Reuben's criminal record and the ongoing business of closures, teen deaths and government investigations of Aspen? Foul language? Dismissal and foul language? Dismissal, a lawsuit, and then lots of foul language?
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You're a sick fuck, Whooter. You lure in unsuspecting parents with promises of "help" and "therapy" but when we strip that veneer away we can all clearly see you view children as products and your programs (Aspen) offer no therapy whatsoever.
What "value" do you "add" here, Whooter? Why are you so concerned with "where the real money is, the TBS industry"? Why do you call children "products"? Why do you go to TTI meetings 1200 miles from home to educate your peers how to get the money in the TBS industry? We're all waiting for you to explain how this squares with your claim you are "just a regular parent." Sorry, but that doesn't even pass the smell test, Whooter.
I would nt responf if I were Whooter because people use abusive language on a frequent basis. For example, guest wrote "You're a sick fuck, Whooter." This is abusive language.
It is abusive and Whooter doesn’t even need to respond because all the questions have been answered. The Whooter talks about how he adds value all the time. If you follow the link TheWho explains why he is talking about where the money is. The guy just finished an entire nauseating post on why he refers to kids as products and everyone on fornits has read about his trip to Chicago by now. If they haven’t they tell them not to bother.
I think our guest is just bored.
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What will the response be at Correlsense when they get a load of John D. "Whooter" Reuben's criminal record and the ongoing business of closures, teen deaths and government investigations of Aspen? Foul language? Dismissal and foul language? Dismissal, a lawsuit, and then lots of foul language?
TheWho said:
If you dislike this guy so much and you have all this information on him and it bothers you what would possess you to just sit on it? Why not do something with it instead of talking about it on the internet? It always amazes me why people talk about all this criminal activity and abuse but no one ever does anything about it.
Its like Ajax13, he talked about this guy Vause for weeks and months on end and had all kinds of questions about where this money went… why his son plays hockey, were they a treatment center or a boarding school , why Vause choose the major he did etc. etc. Ajax would ask these questions over and over on this forum but never thought to take a drive over and ask Vause himself. Is that like the strangest thing, its almost like a condition of some type. If I have a question for Ginger then I would ask Ginger, why would I ask 50 other people when the only person who has the answer is Ginger? Anyway, sorry I’m off topic again.
But my point is if you want to do something just do it. I have always been a firm believer that you have to do what you think is right. Talking about it over and over again here just makes you look foolish.
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No, I don't dispute these. They all have proper links. I only dispute that i mis-spell my name and STICCs. This other stuff I agree to.
Heck, I'll just go for all of them to save time.
Rebuttal section:
Let's keep it short and go over just Whooter's lies from this
thread.
Lie #1: Whooter claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1: Whooter had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten
and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting. This was proven
over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Whooter, in his own words, admits to the trip he was just denying. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=245433&hilit=+chicago#p245433)
Lie #2: Whooter claims to be just a "regular parent with no ties to
the industry."
Truth #2: Whooter already admitted he was part of a "statistical group to assess TBS
safety" that met in Chicago. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting
the post where he already admitted it.
TheWho admitting to being an industry player and saying TBS "is where the money's at." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1470#p245461)
Lie #3: Whooter claims not be John Reuben.
Truth #3: whooter has contacted at least one parent from this forum and provided her
the email address "[email protected]" for her to contact him "outside of Fornits"
because "everyone here has an agenda to discredit programs." The email address has
been verified to be that of John Reuben and is the admin email account at
savingteens.org. This was proven by posting the original PM from TheWho to Concerned
Parent, which TheWho subsequently altered in a quote and copped to altering it when
called out.
TheWho's PM to Concerned Parent is posted in its entirety. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29294&start=45#p351905)
Whois search for savingteens.org shows the email address Whooter provided belongs to John Reuben. (http://http://whois.domaintools.com/savingteens.org)
Lie #4: RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #4: Whooter dropped this claim and went on to blame someone else for being
"Concerned Parent." Interestingly enough, Whooter has actually claimed to BE
RobertBruce many times and later copped to fabricating at least one "lookalike"
RobertBruce login to try to impersonate him (the login he admitted to creating "for
fun" was 'RobertBruce .' with a space and a period at the end).
Whooter begins his claim that RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342#p351931)
Whooter continues to hammer at the meme "Concerned Parent is RobertBruce" without a shred of evidence to suggest that. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=15#p352016)
...and hammering it some more... (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=45#p352455)
Lie #5: Ajax13 is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #5: Ajax13 is not Concerned Parent, but Whooter clings to this meme like a life
raft anyway.
Here we have Whooter denying being himself, posting as "Dick Cheney" claiming Ajax13 and not RobertBruce "fabricated the PM." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=75#p352505)
Lie #6: Ajax13 AND RobertBruce are "Concerned Parent."
Truth #6: Both are provably NOT "Concerned Parent." Whooter seems to have dropped
this notion now because obviously they both couldn't be "Concerned Parent" at the same
time, but that simple logic didn't stop him from floating it to distract from the
conversation.
Here Whooter claims both RobertBruce and Ajax13 are "Concerned Parent." Now he's veering all over the place grasping at straws with no proof. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=75#p352499)
Lie #7: Whooter claimed to have no criminal record when
confronted.
Truth #7: Whooter had already admitted years ago, on this board, that he was "arrested
several times in Boston and once in Ann Arbor Michigan."
Whooter admitting to being arrested "many times in Boston" and elsewhere. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23338&p=284895&hilit=+arrest#p284895)
Lie #8: Whooter claims not to have lied at all.
Truth #8: Whooter has been caught lying like a rug using only his own posts and PMs as
evidence of the lies. Essentially, he lied about everything, then had to walk it all
back piece by piece as he was caught again and again. Now the only thing from the
above list he won't cop to is being Reuben, but considering he lied about and was
proven lying about the rest of the items in this thread, his assertion is just him
howling from being bitten so badly.
No link required, see above. ; )
So, that's 8 full-fledged, lie-through-your-teeth prevarications
offered by TheWho in just this single thread. People should believe him for what
reason now?
Sorry, Whooter, your lying chickens have come home to roost and nobody here believes
anything you say anymore. Better luck next time.
Whooter has been fully owned yet again and busted out lying through his teeth yet
again. Whooter, you better try something else, like going back to trolling with
endless emoticons to slow the page loading, because you are SO BUSTED in YOUR OWN WORDS
and you just can't hide anymore. Your legacy here has cought up to you and just won't
go away. Can't escape those facts, son.
There it is, again, with links. First you claim you never went to Chicago and demanded proof that you did. You then were supplied with a quote from your own post with a link to it showing you did indeed go to Chicago and you were very proud of it as well. You can see the quotes and links above. Right...up...there...again.
I think anybody reading this post can see quite clearly that the statements above are factually true, based on your own words. You said one thing, then you said the opposite. That's called "lying" because the statements "I wasn't there" and "I was there," of which you uttered both (see links above), are mutually exclusive. Do you understand the difference between "I was there" and "I wasn't there"? If not, we'll just move on without you.
:o :o :o :jawdrop: :jawdrop: ... :notworthy: :notworthy:
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we'll just move on without you
This is the best advice everyone could follow. The chances of this happening are slim to none. There are far to many people who enjoy spewing drivel in threads like this. The petty bickering serves no purpose.
-
What will the response be at Correlsense when they get a load of John D. "Whooter" Reuben's criminal record and the ongoing business of closures, teen deaths and government investigations of Aspen? Foul language? Dismissal and foul language? Dismissal, a lawsuit, and then lots of foul language?
TheWho said:
If you dislike this guy so much and you have all this information on him and it bothers you what would possess you to just sit on it? Why not do something with it instead of talking about it on the internet? It always amazes me why people talk about all this criminal activity and abuse but no one ever does anything about it.
Its like Ajax13, he talked about this guy Vause for weeks and months on end and had all kinds of questions about where this money went… why his son plays hockey, were they a treatment center or a boarding school , why Vause choose the major he did etc. etc. Ajax would ask these questions over and over on this forum but never thought to take a drive over and ask Vause himself. Is that like the strangest thing, its almost like a condition of some type. If I have a question for Ginger then I would ask Ginger, why would I ask 50 other people when the only person who has the answer is Ginger? Anyway, sorry I’m off topic again.
But my point is if you want to do something just do it. I have always been a firm believer that you have to do what you think is right. Talking about it over and over again here just makes you look foolish.
@ Thewho, the guest is afraid to send the info, the same way Ajax13 was afraid to speak to Vause directly. Hmmmm, I wonder if there is a connection?
This seems to be a theme with him, he has been saying for years that he will bring AARC down and today they are doing stronger than ever (never got around to speaking to Vause directly about all those questions, wonder why?) and now he says the same about this Reuben guy. What is Ajax13 afraid of? Why cant he push the button and send the information?
Boo!!!
-
Remember this holiday season, kiddies, that Whooter and his ilk would love to ruin your child and family for fun and profit!
STICC/Aspen KILL KIDS! :poison: :poison: :poison: :poison: :suicide: :suicide: :suicide:
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This thread is funny. Especially when you consider that all of the "anonymous" Whooter support is gone since logging in is required. Anyone else notice that "NIGEL" also evaporated since Whooter must login to post? Seems like now that Whooter has to login (or spend hours creating all the necessary phony logins) all of the "pro-Whooter" and all of the "pro-program" flotsam has disappeared. I'm telling you, people, Whooter nearly single-handedly spammed this forum into the toilet. Now that he has been restrained, miraculously, all the garbage is gone. Go figure.
I do appreciate the content of this thread, however. Actually a great expose using Whooter's own words to prove he is an unabshed liar. Good work!
-
This thread is funny. Especially when you consider that all of the "anonymous" Whooter support is gone since logging in is required. Anyone else notice that "NIGEL" also evaporated since Whooter must login to post? Seems like now that Whooter has to login (or spend hours creating all the necessary phony logins) all of the "pro-Whooter" and all of the "pro-program" flotsam has disappeared. I'm telling you, people, Whooter nearly single-handedly spammed this forum into the toilet. Now that he has been restrained, miraculously, all the garbage is gone. Go figure.
I do appreciate the content of this thread, however. Actually a great expose using Whooter's own words to prove he is an unabshed liar. Good work!
This is classic. I knew the trolls would have to come out of the woodwork and log in eventually, Lol, a little upset DJ that you cant troll me anymore as a guest and now have nothing constructive to say? You will look a little stupid trying to keep all your “Reuben” and “TheWho” troll threads at the top now wont you!!! Ha,Ha,Ha.
-
This thread is funny. Especially when you consider that all of the "anonymous" Whooter support is gone since logging in is required. Anyone else notice that "NIGEL" also evaporated since Whooter must login to post? Seems like now that Whooter has to login (or spend hours creating all the necessary phony logins) all of the "pro-Whooter" and all of the "pro-program" flotsam has disappeared. I'm telling you, people, Whooter nearly single-handedly spammed this forum into the toilet. Now that he has been restrained, miraculously, all the garbage is gone. Go figure.
I do appreciate the content of this thread, however. Actually a great expose using Whooter's own words to prove he is an unabshed liar. Good work!
I did not "evaporate." You can check my posts on my son to see that I am still around. This is the first time I have responded in a different thread (mainly because I came to fornits out of a selfish need to make sure I was hearing both sides, and not to change this whole industry). I am bringing my son home in the next two weeks, and that is my main focus right now. I am not here to defend Whooter, only to make sure I get as much help as possible in making my decisions regarding my son.
-
You don't have a son. Fuck off.
-
This thread is good comedy.
-
Can't say this is a "troll thread." It's packed with factual information about Whooter, his motivations and his role in the TTI. I'm glad it's here at the top so people can have an understanding of Whooter and how he does business in the TTI. Now, I've known for many years what an abject liar Whooter is, but this is a great synopsis for the uninitiated. Don't get snookered by this money-grubber, parents.
Funny, too, how Whooter posts and then NIGEL posts a few minutes later in a thread he's "never posted in before." Go figure ; )
Now that Whooter has to login, all of his "supporters" have simply vanished. Strange coincidence? :rofl: Hardly.
-
Can't say this is a "troll thread." It's packed with factual information about Whooter, his motivations and his role in the TTI. I'm glad it's here at the top so people can have an understanding of Whooter and how he does business in the TTI. Now, I've known for many years what an abject liar Whooter is, but this is a great synopsis for the uninitiated. Don't get snookered by this money-grubber, parents.
Funny, too, how Whooter posts and then NIGEL posts a few minutes later in a thread he's "never posted in before." Go figure ; )
Now that Whooter has to login, all of his "supporters" have simply vanished. Strange coincidence? :rofl: Hardly.
Perfect----Another conspiracy theory. Is Whooter Nigel, or maybe Nigel has actually been posting here all along as Whooter. Either way, it definitely adds to the topic (not). As for the fact I finally posted on another topic----I have been reading all of the different threads for awhile now so that I can stay as informed as possible. The reason I posted here is that I was "called out."
Now---if Whooter follows this up with a post, you will know the answer to your question.
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The reason you posted here was to fail at making yourself look like an actual person instead of a mindless Aspen shill and support the other Aspen shill that spams this place up.
Now get the hell out of here. If you were an actual parent you would have at least read some of the other threads on ASR and Aspen. You obviously haven't, and because of that your persona fails to attain anything remotely resembling credibility.
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Link to TheWho's admission he is an industry guy and knows "where the real money is, the TBS industry". (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1470#p245461) Check it out.
Keep asking Whooter to explain this post until you get an answer. He wrote it, logged in with his username, and the link points right to it. He can't deny it, so he avoids it, lols.
Skipped it again to post some quote he himself altered to try to make it look like we did. Sad. This link ^^right here^^ is a link to an original post by Whooter. He can't explain it or deny it, so he avoids it altogether. He's a sneaky, greasy weasel, but this thread shows clearly exactly what he is: a LIAR.
Please explain this original post of yours, Whooter. Why do you care where the money is? Why did you travel 1200 miles from your home to teach your colleagues "where the real money is"? We're all ears for your explanation.
Don't forget who Whooter really is. Click on the link above to see how he is involved financially in the TTI, by his own admission. I agree with the poster whom I quoted here: Whooter should be asked to explain his comments above each time he posts until a satisfactory answer is given. So far he has simply ignored this topic, but the evidence is indelible.
-
:bump:
-
:bump:
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Heck, I'll just go for all of them to save time.
Rebuttal section:
Let's keep it short and go over just Whooter's lies from this
thread.
Lie #1: Whooter claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1: Whooter had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten
and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting. This was proven
over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Whooter, in his own words, admits to the trip he was just denying. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=245433&hilit=+chicago#p245433)
Lie #2: Whooter claims to be just a "regular parent with no ties to
the industry."
Truth #2: Whooter already admitted he was part of a "statistical group to assess TBS
safety" that met in Chicago. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting
the post where he already admitted it.
TheWho admitting to being an industry player and saying TBS "is where the money's at." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1470#p245461)
Lie #3: Whooter claims not be John Reuben.
Truth #3: whooter has contacted at least one parent from this forum and provided her
the email address "[email protected]" for her to contact him "outside of Fornits"
because "everyone here has an agenda to discredit programs." The email address has
been verified to be that of John Reuben and is the admin email account at
savingteens.org. This was proven by posting the original PM from TheWho to Concerned
Parent, which TheWho subsequently altered in a quote and copped to altering it when
called out.
TheWho's PM to Concerned Parent is posted in its entirety. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=29294&start=45#p351905)
Whois search for savingteens.org shows the email address Whooter provided belongs to John Reuben. (http://http://whois.domaintools.com/savingteens.org)
Lie #4: RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #4: Whooter dropped this claim and went on to blame someone else for being
"Concerned Parent." Interestingly enough, Whooter has actually claimed to BE
RobertBruce many times and later copped to fabricating at least one "lookalike"
RobertBruce login to try to impersonate him (the login he admitted to creating "for
fun" was 'RobertBruce .' with a space and a period at the end).
Whooter begins his claim that RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342#p351931)
Whooter continues to hammer at the meme "Concerned Parent is RobertBruce" without a shred of evidence to suggest that. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=15#p352016)
...and hammering it some more... (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=45#p352455)
Lie #5: Ajax13 is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #5: Ajax13 is not Concerned Parent, but Whooter clings to this meme like a life
raft anyway.
Here we have Whooter denying being himself, posting as "Dick Cheney" claiming Ajax13 and not RobertBruce "fabricated the PM." (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=75#p352505)
Lie #6: Ajax13 AND RobertBruce are "Concerned Parent."
Truth #6: Both are provably NOT "Concerned Parent." Whooter seems to have dropped
this notion now because obviously they both couldn't be "Concerned Parent" at the same
time, but that simple logic didn't stop him from floating it to distract from the
conversation.
Here Whooter claims both RobertBruce and Ajax13 are "Concerned Parent." Now he's veering all over the place grasping at straws with no proof. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=75#p352499)
Lie #7: Whooter claimed to have no criminal record when
confronted.
Truth #7: Whooter had already admitted years ago, on this board, that he was "arrested
several times in Boston and once in Ann Arbor Michigan."
Whooter admitting to being arrested "many times in Boston" and elsewhere. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23338&p=284895&hilit=+arrest#p284895)
Lie #8: Whooter claims not to have lied at all.
Truth #8: Whooter has been caught lying like a rug using only his own posts and PMs as
evidence of the lies. Essentially, he lied about everything, then had to walk it all
back piece by piece as he was caught again and again. Now the only thing from the
above list he won't cop to is being Reuben, but considering he lied about and was
proven lying about the rest of the items in this thread, his assertion is just him
howling from being bitten so badly.
No link required, see above. ; )
So, that's 8 full-fledged, lie-through-your-teeth prevarications
offered by TheWho in just this single thread. People should believe him for what
reason now?
Sorry, Whooter, your lying chickens have come home to roost and nobody here believes
anything you say anymore. Better luck next time.
Whooter has been fully owned yet again and busted out lying through his teeth yet
again. Whooter, you better try something else, like going back to trolling with
endless emoticons to slow the page loading, because you are SO BUSTED in YOUR OWN WORDS
and you just can't hide anymore. Your legacy here has cought up to you and just won't
go away.
There it is, again, with links. First you claim you never went to Chicago and demanded proof that you did. You then were supplied with a quote from your own post with a link to it showing you did indeed go to Chicago and you were very proud of it as well. You can see the quotes and links above. Right...up...there...again.
I think anybody reading this post can see quite clearly that the statements above are factually true, based on your own words. You said one thing, then you said the opposite. That's called "lying" because the statements "I wasn't there" and "I was there," of which you uttered both (see links above), are mutually exclusive. Do you understand the difference between "I was there" and "I wasn't there"? If not, we'll just move on without you.
:rocker: :rofl: :cheers: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy: :notworthy:
CONSIDER THE SOURCE when dealing with Whooter. He just can't tell the truth. It's against his nature to be honest about ANYTHING.
-
(http://http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/msbrackenridge/2007/05/18/i_love_this_thread.jpg)
-
Link to TheWho's admission he is an industry guy and knows "where the real money is, the TBS industry". (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1470#p245461) Check it out.
Keep asking Whooter to explain this post until you get an answer. He wrote it, logged in with his username, and the link points right to it. He can't deny it, so he avoids it, lols.
Skipped it again to post some quote he himself altered to try to make it look like we did. Sad. This link ^^right here^^ is a link to an original post by Whooter. He can't explain it or deny it, so he avoids it altogether. He's a sneaky, greasy weasel, but this thread shows clearly exactly what he is: a LIAR.
Please explain this original post of yours, Whooter. Why do you care where the money is? Why did you travel 1200 miles from your home to teach your colleagues "where the real money is"? We're all ears for your explanation.
Don't forget who Whooter really is. Click on the link above to see how he is involved financially in the TTI, by his own admission. I agree with the poster whom I quoted here: Whooter should be asked to explain his comments above each time he posts until a satisfactory answer is given. So far he has simply ignored this topic, but the evidence is indelible.
:bump:
-
This really does spell it all out. Nice job!!!
-
:rocker:
-
Everything is! Nothing can top it.
-
I would have preferred to handle this matter privately, but since Whooter is a complete coward, I cannot do so.
Whooter has now taken to harassing me via PM, sending me "nastygrams" by PM, but lacking sufficient balls to allow responses. He can dish it out, but he can't take it, a fact with which I think everyone here is familiar. Since Whooter has blocked PM responses, I will respond publicly and I think everyone will have a clearer idea of how sick, petty and immature Whooter really is.
************************************************************************
Hey DJ
“Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent”
I really wish I had seen your face when I slowly revealed that June 6, 2007 was a Wednesday not a Friday. You are so naive to think you could convince everyone I wrote that email (you fabricated) but you fucked up big time (as you always end up doing) and I blew your own thread out of the water (once again, you must have screamed and raved for hours). We both know who the liar is DJ and it is sweet watching you jump around in your desperation trying to prove I am “This Rueben guy” (lol) when we both know it can never happen because I am just a login name on the internet. I am your worst nightmare and you cant get rid of me no matter how hard you try (or lie). Take a look at your last 10 or so posts… you have turned into a troll and you cant stand that I am interacting and discussing with everyone while you have to stand on the sidelines and just read without any “value added” input.
You and Anne should join forces. She is almost as sharp as you are !!
Bump… lol
...
********************************************************************************
Wow, this message is quite revealing now, isn't it? You've made some factual errors, so let me address those first.
I am not the poster "concerned parent." You seem to want to believe I am, but you are incorrect. I believe you have previously stated that this poster was RobertBruce and also Ajax13. I also have only a single login and have never, ever posted under any other user name. That's a fact. Your uulations don't change anything.
All I am doing is simply pointing out that you are not who you represent yourself to be and that you have proven before, through your own posts, that you are a liar. Because you are not very bright and because you are impulsive and sloppy, you've essentially "told on yourself" many times. When I point this out, it seems to enrage you. I only wonder why you're so angry at me, when it was in fact you who posted the obvious lies that I am just pointing out to readers.
I do believe you have some serious mental health problems. I can't see why anyone would do and say the things you do and say if they had a healthy, fully functional mind. But that's your problem to deal with, not mine.
If reading my posts makes you so upset that you feel like you need to harass me via PM, I'd suggest you quit reading them. It seems you have some strong need to "one up" me, but that will never heppen, Whooter. You are clearly damaged goods and clearly not my intellectual peer and you never will be. Your venom toward me comes from your own inadequacy and anger at being exposed as a fraud. Your smug arrogance does not fool me -indeed, I see right through it. I see a man who suffers under the psychological weight of being an utter failure; a person who never made his own way in the world; a person who was born on third base believing he hit a triple, but who was never able to make it to home plate. You obviously are a lousy father. Your work record shows you're virtually unemployable. Your education is high school level at best. Are you just jealous of me or something? Maybe so, considering I am more than twice the man you'll ever be, intellectually and physically.
No matter how much you'd like to believe that other people, like me or like Anne Bonney, live in petty, twisted little worlds like you obviously do, you are actually alone there, sitting in a pile of your own excrement, leading your meaningless life. Let's face it, Whooter, the shining acheivement of your sad, unfulfilling, phony life is your trolling of Fornits. How unfortunate for you.
But, alas, when I hit the "submit" button, the coward Whooter hid behind his account settings:
Some users couldn’t be added as they have disabled private message receipt.
Not only is Whooter an abject liar and failure, he's also gutless and nutless.
Obviously, my factual commentary about Whooter has struck a serious nerve, and it wouldn't have if it were untrue. The truth hurts and Whooter is obviously hurting.
Another giant Whooter lie to add to the pile:
Oh Brother, here we go again. It seems my personal troll is growing and becoming more desperate. Now you are back to submitting PM’s. At least you are logged in this time so I know who to avoid. If guest posting were enabled this thread would be at 50 posts by now and growing fast. So we can see it was a good move to force these guys to log-in under their user names.
Nice try DJ.
...
Whooter caught in yet another huge whopper of a lie. (http://http://i1014.photobucket.com/albums/af262/dysfunction_junction/WhooterLies.jpg) He just can't help himself. He's a pathological liar.
Admins have my permission to access my inbox and verify the PM from Whooter. I also forwarded it to Anne Bonney, just in case Whooter tried to deny it, like he just did above.
This man's credibility is ZERO. Readers shouldn't believe a single word of what he says, as he's incapable of honesty.
I wonder why, if he says he wants to "avoid" me, that he is sending me nasty PM's? Why would he then turn around and deny he sent me the PM when it is so easy to prove he did? He's a glutton for punishment and takes continual ground-zero hits on himself. Just click ion the link in the above quote to see Whooter's latest huge, embarassing failure.
-
Nobody cares. Go cry into your pillow, bitch.
-
Thanks, SUCK IT, for keeping this thread at the top. I appreciate it.
-
Looks like TheWho has got a new BITCH who will obsess about him.
Whooter lied to me!
Whooter is a mean person!
Whooter is blah, blah, blah.
:moon:
-
Maybe you got the name "SUCK IT" from Whooter whilst fellating him? Such an angry, bitter little troll... :rofl:
-
Let's keep it short and go over just Whooter's lies from this thread.
Lie #1: Whooter claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1: Whooter had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Lie #2: Whooter claims to be just a "regular parent with no ties to the industry."
Truth #2: Whooter already admitted he was part of a "statistical group to assess TBS safety" that met in Chicago. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Lie #3: Whooter claims not be John Reuben.
Truth #3: whooter has contacted at least one parent from this forum and provided her the email address "[email protected]" for her to contact him "outside of Fornits" because "everyone here has an agenda to discredit programs." The email address has been verified to be that of John Reuben and is the admin email account at savingteens.org. This was proven by posting the original PM from TheWho to Concerned Parent, which TheWho subsequently altered in a quote and copped to altering it when called out.
Lie #4: RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #4: Whooter dropped this claim and went on to blame someone else for being "Concerned Parent." Interestingly enough, Whooter has actually claimed to BE RobertBruce many times and later copped to fabricating at least one "lookalike" RobertBruce login to try to impersonate him (the login he admitted to creating "for fun" was 'RobertBruce .' with a space and a period at the end).
Lie #5: Ajax13 is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #5: Ajax13 is not Concerned Parent, but Whooter clings to this meme like a life raft anyway.
Lie #6: Ajax13 AND RobertBruce are "Concerned Parent."
Truth #6: Both are provably NOT "Concerned Parent." Whooter seems to have dropped this notion now because obviously they both couldn't be "Concerned Parent" at the same time, but that simple logic didn't stop him from floating it to distract from the conversation.
Lie #7: Whooter claimed to have no criminal record when confronted.
Truth #7: Whooter had already admitted years ago, on this board, that he was "arrested several times in Boston and once in Ann Arbor Michigan."
Lie #8: Whooter claims not to have lied at all.
Truth #8: Whooter has been caught lying like a rug using only his own posts and PMs as evidence of the lies. Essentially, he lied about everything, then had to walk it all back piece by piece as he was caught again and again. Now the only thing from the above list he won't cop to is being Reuben, but considering he lied about and was proven lying about the rest of the items in this thread, his assertion is just him howling from being bitten so badly.
So, that's 8 full-fledged, lie-through-your-teeth prevarications offered by TheWho in just this single thread. People should believe him for what reason now?
Sorry, Whooter, your lying chickens have come home to roost and nobody here believes anything you say anymore. Better luck next time.
:eek: :notworthy:
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Link to TheWho's admission he is an industry guy and knows "where the real money is, the TBS industry". (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1470#p245461) Check it out.
Keep asking Whooter to explain this post until you get an answer. He wrote it, logged in with his username, and the link points right to it. He can't deny it, so he avoids it, lols.
Skipped it again to post some quote he himself altered to try to make it look like we did. Sad. This link ^^right here^^ is a link to an original post by Whooter. He can't explain it or deny it, so he avoids it altogether. He's a sneaky, greasy weasel, but this thread shows clearly exactly what he is: a LIAR.
Please explain this original post of yours, Whooter. Why do you care where the money is? Why did you travel 1200 miles from your home to teach your colleagues "where the real money is"? We're all ears for your explanation.
I notice you skipped this again, Whooter. Why would you troll trying to pose as RobertBruce instead of answering this simple question?
There's no denying you wrote it. It's from your user account. So why don't you just explain it for the rest of us?
Who was at the meeting? Why were you there? How do you know "where the real money is" in the TTI and why do you care? Why would a "regular parent" travel 1200 miles to an industry meeting if he has nothing to do with the industry? I can't seem to make sense of your statements then and your denials now. Clear it up for the readers, Whooter.
Still no answer about these obvious mistruths.
*Bumped at the request of Governor Romney*
-
Link to TheWho's admission he is an industry guy and knows "where the real money is, the TBS industry". (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1470#p245461) Check it out.
Keep asking Whooter to explain this post until you get an answer. He wrote it, logged in with his username, and the link points right to it. He can't deny it, so he avoids it, lols.
Skipped it again to post some quote he himself altered to try to make it look like we did. Sad. This link ^^right here^^ is a link to an original post by Whooter. He can't explain it or deny it, so he avoids it altogether. He's a sneaky, greasy weasel, but this thread shows clearly exactly what he is: a LIAR.
Please explain this original post of yours, Whooter. Why do you care where the money is? Why did you travel 1200 miles from your home to teach your colleagues "where the real money is"? We're all ears for your explanation.
I notice you skipped this again, Whooter. Why would you troll trying to pose as RobertBruce instead of answering this simple question?
There's no denying you wrote it. It's from your user account. So why don't you just explain it for the rest of us?
Who was at the meeting? Why were you there? How do you know "where the real money is" in the TTI and why do you care? Why would a "regular parent" travel 1200 miles to an industry meeting if he has nothing to do with the industry? I can't seem to make sense of your statements then and your denials now. Clear it up for the readers, Whooter.
Still no answer about these obvious mistruths.
*Bumped at the request of Governor Romney*
maruska, you can pick up your line of questioning in this thread where Whooter has already admitted to being an industry 'player'. Maybe you can get an answer where everyone else has been evaded.
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viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12694&start=105 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=12694&start=105)
Ned was good with the kids and well liked. He left RMA in 1997 and took an Associate Head Master position at the Baylor School in Tennessee to be closer to his son and family, I believe. He enjoyed a few years there and then accepted a position as HeadMaster at Episcopal day school in Augusta Ga in 2003. He was arrested for DUI in 2007 which a subsequent background search revealed he had no prior record.
He continues there today as HeadMaster.
And you're still insisting that you're merely an "interested parent". You just sort of stumble across all this detailed information, right? You have no financial association or gain, directly or indirectly, with the TTI...right?
And please, just this once...spare me the "we all profit from it one way or another" bullshit. You know precisely what I'm talking about and that's not it.
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Nice catch, Anne. Has Whooter explained how, considering he claims his only association with the TTI is that his daughter went to ASR around 2004, he could possibly know about Ned from RMA back in the 90's? I'd like to hear how he knows this detailed information about Ned.
Oh, Whooter, you just keep stepping in it, don't you?
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Nice catch, Anne. Has Whooter explained how, considering he claims his only association with the TTI is that his daughter went to ASR around 2004, he could possibly know about Ned from RMA back in the 90's? I'd like to hear how he knows this detailed information about Ned.
Oh, Whooter, you just keep stepping in it, don't you?
DJ, when I first got here I read your posts and I tried real hard to follow the line of facts you laid out but ya know what, it is to confusing for my little old brain to follow. You really don't have anything that connects anywhere except in Anne, psy and your mind. Maybe what your feeling is a resonating electromagnetic carpet fiber shuffle impulse and your somehow transmitting to Anne and psy. It does happen ya know, I'm in the Flooring business I know these things, I think.
So whathe went to Chicago (if in fact he did) to a seminar concerning TTI's or TC's Or Religious farting who the fuck cares. God oh mighty don't we have better things we can do then be fucking around with this mamby pamby shit. That's why I'm here to kick ass and take names of all the slackers trying to muddle this site.....lol.
What is your purpose or better yet your objective, so he says HEY I WORK FOR A TTI, so then what, What are we all going to do, look at one another like they did in the movie "A Few Good Men" when Tom Cruise finally gets Jack to admit to the Red ????.....there was that moment where everyone just stared at Jack......duh.
I suppose you and Capt. Psy will then move for a Summary Court Marshall, bring in the baliff and whack his pee pee. Ya know what if that happened on Monday on Tuesday we would all be posting away again, looking for another target, yes we call them targets. This is the military here.
Danny
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"Hi, my name is Danny and I'm powerless over rational thought and deductive reasoning."
"Welcome, Danny!"
Epic lols.
-
So whathe went to Chicago (if in fact he did) to a seminar concerning TTI's or TC's Or Religious farting who the fuck cares. God oh mighty don't we have better things we can do then be fucking around with this mamby pamby shit. That's why I'm here to kick ass and take names of all the slackers trying to muddle this site.....lol.
:on phone: Can you tell a little more about those seminars on religious farting?
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So whathe went to Chicago (if in fact he did) to a seminar concerning TTI's or TC's Or Religious farting who the fuck cares. God oh mighty don't we have better things we can do then be fucking around with this mamby pamby shit.
Namby pamby moron. It's not that we care whether or not he went......it's that it ties into Whooter's claims that he has no financial ties to the industry and is simply a "program parent". Try to keep up. I know it's difficult, given your level of intelligence, but please make an attempt.
That's why I'm here to kick ass and take names of all the slackers trying to muddle this site.....lol.
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
And what a fine job you're doing!!
:roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
You really don't get it, do you? You're NOT on staff anymore. Why you think you have any control or say over what goes on here, is beyond me. Get over yourself.
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Danny wrote:
So whathe went to Chicago (if in fact he did) to a seminar concerning TTI's or TC's Or Religious farting who the fuck cares. God oh mighty don't we have better things we can do then be fucking around with this mamby pamby shit.
Anne wrote:
Namby pamby moron. It's not that we care whether or not he went......it's that it ties into Whooter's claims that he has no financial ties to the industry and is simply a "program parent". Try to keep up. I know it's difficult, given your level of intelligence, but please make an attempt.
Danny wrote:
I'll say it again "who cares" what has it been 3 years since this line of inquiry has been going on and your no closer then you were then.
Anne your questioning my level of intelligence, your a administration clerk at some office park with a thesaurus handy by your desk, bravo sweety.
I loved your description of how you research info, you read posts here then quote them or copy and paste them. Great R&D.......lol.
Stop being a Mamby Pamby Anne. I am not a moron, maybe a vile, vulgar and selfish pig....ya that sounds better.....lol. Don't tell me I can't say Mamby, I'll say it, you...you pushy person you.
Tell Ursus that religious farting is our secret and we never tell.
That's why I'm here to kick ass and take names of all the slackers trying to muddle this site.....lol
Danny
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"All ye Poets of the Age!
All ye Witlings of the Stage!
Learn your Jingles to reform!
Crop your Numbers and Conform:
Let your little Verses flow
Gently, Sweetly, Row by Row:
Let the Verse the Subject fit;
Little Subject, Little Wit.
Namby-Pamby is your Guide;
Albion's Joy, Hibernia's Pride."
From Namby Pamby (http://http://rpo.library.utoronto.ca/poem/412.html) (1725), by Henry Carey.[/list][/list]
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Don't tell me I can't say Mamby,
You can't say mamby. There.
Go ahead and say it moron. You just make yourself look even more ignorant.
:rofl: :rofl:
What a joke you are. Are you sure you're not some satirical character, created to show what ignorant, clueless and vile people Elan and AA churned out? No one can be this stupid IRL.
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I'll say it again "who cares" what has it been 3 years since this line of inquiry has been going on and your no closer then you were then.
Your imaginary friend, the who doesn't care. Do you notice he never defends you on fornits?
Anne your questioning my level of intelligence
You don't have intelligence.
your a administration clerk at some office park with a thesaurus handy by your desk, bravo sweety.
You just gained the pedophile stamp of approval. You don't have the power, except in your mind, to assume females are lesser then you. Danny this line of thinking is creepy.
I loved your description of how you research info, you read posts here then quote them or copy and paste them. Great R&D.......lol.
Did you flunk English in school? Your sentence structure is horrendous!
Stop being a Mamby Pamby Anne. I am not a moron, maybe a vile, vulgar and selfish pig....ya that sounds better.....lol. Don't tell me I can't say Mamby, I'll say it, you...you pushy person you.
You are a moron who bullies survivors. Anne can tell you what you can and cannot say on fornits. You will start kissing her ass.
Tell Ursus that religious farting is our secret and we never tell.
You have more secrets now that you came out of the closet about religion. We don't want to know about them. I won't send my kids to your church for confession.
That's why I'm here to kick ass and take names of all the slackers trying to muddle this site.....lol
You couldn't kick any other person's ass if you tried, so sit down, soak your dentures and keep watching old episodes of MASH.
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Don't tell me I can't say Mamby,
You can't say mamby. There.
Go ahead and say it moron. You just make yourself look even more ignorant.
:rofl: :rofl:
What a joke you are. Are you sure you're not some satirical character, created to show what ignorant, clueless and vile people Elan and AA churned out? No one can be this stupid IRL.
Damn IT...... I'll say if I want..... :waaaa: :waaaa: :waaaa: Ursus quit pushing your copies and paste jobs on me......
Anne stop!!!!!!!!!!! become aware, am I calling you names right now, NO.
Mamby, Mamby, Mamby, Mamby, Mamby, Mamby.............lol.
Danny
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I'll say it again "who cares" what has it been 3 years since this line of inquiry has been going on and your no closer then you were then.
Who [Whooter] you're imaginary friend does not care.
Anne your questioning my level of intelligence
You don't have any.
your a administration clerk at some office park with a thesaurus handy by your desk, bravo sweety.
You just gained the pedophile stamp of approval now. You don't have the power, except in your mind, to assume females are lesser then you. Danny this line of thinking is creepy.
I loved your description of how you research info, you read posts here then quote them or copy and paste them. Great R&D.......lol.
Did you flunk English in school? Your sentence structure is horrendous!
Stop being a Mamby Pamby Anne. I am not a moron, maybe a vile, vulgar and selfish pig....ya that sounds better.....lol. Don't tell me I can't say Mamby, I'll say it, you...you pushy person you.
Yes you really are a moron who bullies survivors. A PEDO is also accurate to. Anne can tell you what you can and cannot say on fornits you stupid prick. You will start kissing her ass.
Tell Ursus that religious farting is our secret and we never tell.
You have more secrets now that you came out of the closet about religion. We don't want to know. I won't send my kids to your church for confession.
That's why I'm here to kick ass and take names of all the slackers trying to muddle this site.....lol
You couldn't kick any other person's ass if you tried, so sit down, soak your dentures and keep watching old episodes of MASH.
Golly gosh I do like the old episodes of Mash, Man from Uncle, Twilight Zone, The Saint, The Dating Game, Lets Make a Deal, and religious Farting.
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"Hi, my name is Danny and I'm powerless over rational thought and deductive reasoning."
"Welcome, Danny!"
Epic lols.
Oh ya that just makes a laugh bigger...........
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"Hi, my name is Danny and I'm powerless over rational thought and deductive reasoning."
"Welcome, Danny!"
Epic lols.
Oh ya that just makes a laugh bigger...........
- Pastor - :rocker: :rocker: :rocker: :rocker: :rocker:
(http://http://forum.ntreev.net/pangya/cfs-filesystemfile.ashx/__key/CommunityServer.Discussions.Components.Files/11/6378.pedo-bear.jpg)
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I'll say if I want.....
Here.....you dropped this.
(http://http://www.uleth.ca/edu/currlab/handouts/noun.jpg)
We'll learn ya one of these days. :rofl: :rofl:
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"Hi, my name is Danny and I'm powerless over rational thought and deductive reasoning."
"Welcome, Danny!"
Epic lols.
Oh ya that just makes a laugh bigger...........
Danny, You are heading down the same dark path I did. You are way too open minded and it scares them. They are leaning over and extending their hand to you and want you to jump on the band wagon and if you don’t they will outcast you and label you. If you don’t do something soon you will become part of DJ’s footer lol. You need to start agreeing with them and join the group think. Toss out a few words like "gulag", "brainwashing", "all programs are the same" and that may get them off your back long enough to decide if you want to join the group or not.
Good luck
...
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Danny, You are heading down the same dark path I did. You are way too open minded and it scares them. They are leaning over and extending their hand to you and want you to jump on the band wagon and if you don’t they will outcast you and label you. If you don’t do something soon you will become part of DJ’s footer lol. You need to start agreeing with them and join the group think. Toss out a few words like "gulag", "brainwashing", "all programs are the same" and that may get them off your back long enough to decide if you want to join the group or not.
Good luck
Until now, you've (wisely) stayed away from the Danny stuff.
I smell that desperation again.
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I don't think Whooter is aware of the last personal message Danny sent to Ginger.
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Yeah, Whooter's just looking for an ally. Funny thing about these bedfellows is that Danny insists it's program parents that are the root of all program evil. That's Whooter (or so he claims). To boot, Whooter is not just a regular program parent, he's a program parent who actively recruits for the TTI. None of that matters to Danny, though. He's happy to go against everything he claims he believes in order to get a butt-buddy here.
Whooter has made a strategic mistake, though, which goes back to my point that he is ham-handed and not surgical. Agreeing with Crazy Danny's crazy statements only makes Whooter look worse, not better. Whooter is certainly not very bright, but Danny is halfway retarded. Not sure how Whooter feels Danny can "add value" to his mission here. An alliance with Danny just makes Whooter look even dumber than he actually is.
Just a footnote on my "footer": Whooter has never denied anything in it and has never answered a single question about the lies he's obviously caught in from those links. Care to explain now, Whooter, why you claimed a fiduciary interest in AEG?[/i] We're all ears...
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Danny, You are heading down the same dark path I did. You are way too open minded and it scares them. They are leaning over and extending their hand to you and want you to jump on the band wagon and if you don’t they will outcast you and label you. If you don’t do something soon you will become part of DJ’s footer lol. You need to start agreeing with them and join the group think. Toss out a few words like "gulag", "brainwashing", "all programs are the same" and that may get them off your back long enough to decide if you want to join the group or not.
Good luck
Until now, you've (wisely) stayed away from the Danny stuff.
I smell that desperation again.
I have a feeling Whooter's lil piece of advice ... was more than a lil tongue in cheek. :D
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Yeah, Whooter's just looking for an ally. Funny thing about these bedfellows is that Danny insists it's program parents that are the root of all program evil. That's Whooter (or so he claims). To boot, Whooter is not just a regular program parent, he's a program parent who actively recruits for the TTI. None of that matters to Danny, though. He's happy to go against everything he claims he believes in order to get a butt-buddy here.
Whooter has made a strategic mistake, though, which goes back to my point that he is ham-handed and not surgical. Agreeing with Crazy Danny's crazy statements only makes Whooter look worse, not better. Whooter is certainly not very bright, but Danny is halfway retarded. Not sure how Whooter feels Danny can "add value" to his mission here. An alliance with Danny just makes Whooter look even dumber than he actually is.
Just a footnote on my "footer": Whooter has never denied anything in it and has never answered a single question about the lies he's obviously caught in from those links. Care to explain now, Whooter, why you claimed a fiduciary interest in AEG?[/i] We're all ears...
Ok.... DJ lets set everything aside for a second here, your PM that said your 250lbs and a MMF fighter and all the PM's where I said I was 230 lbs and a good fighter.
Why am I a dumb fuck here, because I don't have excellent writing skills, I can't articulate as well as you, my expertise does not lie in the Mental Health field so I can't quote therapeutic behavioral methods, I have a different opinion and I voice it and last but not least I am combative.
Damn if this is why well then I'll just remain a dumbfuck.
Now please folks don't be afraid to add to the list.
DJ I am a survivor and I am a legitimate member here, just because you and many others have a far greater grasp of the English language does not mean you are automatically smarter then I.
Let me ask you a question do you think you have common sense because I don't, your comical rant on whooter lacks any common sense, you say there is a trail but I can't find it. I tried when I first got here, I was objective (still am) but to no avail. Trust me I am not the only one who has said this in PM's, I'm just the one that will say it out loud. I have nothing to loose with you.
Bashing folks that don't agree with you really does not make sense, DJ. I know your smarter then this, though I don't believe you have the common sense to see it.
Just coming from a old grumpy guy who has some common sense.
Danny
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I haven t been around during all this "The Who", and "Whooter" -shit.
I am assuming that he works for some prgram... and I did see that posted somewhere today. Has he ever said that? Or is tat just an assumption.
To me, it would not make sense that based on sending one of his kids to a program, and believing that the results were good, he would spend the rest of his life defending programs at Fornits.
Also, he some times talks as though he has so much experience with and extensive knowledge about programs, and yet when I asked him about thier methodology, and theory, he idnstead reported to me the results of the methodology, which tells me that either he does no know, or he does know that I would have tore up the theory/methodology, because it is bullshit...
Hey, Whooter, who are you?
What are past and present relationships to programs( specific programs or generally speaking)?
Can you answer these questions? They are very straight-forward.
And if you are on the up and up, you will want to answer them. If you evade, then you are clearly hiding something.....
Paul St. John
PS Any input from other fornits posters? facts please... no baseless accusations..
And Danny, if you think that Elan is so bad, and you want to expose it and shut it down, why do you spend all your time defending programs you know nothing about, and almost no time talking about the evils of Elan?
You never answered me B4. Are you standing by your statement that your sole purpose here is to make suer that TC's get a fair trial, or will you just admit that that was a convenient thing to say at the time, so that we can move past it?
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Ok.... DJ lets set everything aside for a second here, your PM that said your 250lbs and a MMF fighter and all the PM's where I said I was 230 lbs and a good fighter.
Okay now, this sounds like a good start for a meaningful exchange... I always try to preface my negotiations with this kinda language.
Someone wanna be in charge of the bets?
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To me, it would not make sense that based on sending one of his kids to a program, and believing that the results were good, he would spend the rest of his life defending programs at Fornits.
Also, he some times talks as though he has so much experience with and extensive knowledge about programs, and yet when I asked him about thier methodology, and theory, he idnstead reported to me the results of the methodology, which tells me that either he does no know, or he does know that I would have tore up the theory/methodology, because it is bullshit...
I don’t even think they work to theories, Paul. There is nothing that you could tear up. Programs have a model that they work to. They measure the outcome and determine how effective their model is and adjust and make changes (based on parent and student feed back) until they have a model that they feel is effective.
Right now some programs are experiencing about an 80 % or better success rate. Many people here watch as ex CEDU people come and go into different programs thinking that they influence the model, but they don’t. Programs, like any other business, hire people who have experience in the industry but the new hires need to follow the model that the program is working to (not the other way around). There is a lot of paranoia here on fornits that the industry does things in secret. But in reality they are more open than most other boarding schools because of the fact that they handle such a specialized type of student body.
...
-
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Ok.... DJ lets set everything aside for a second here, your PM that said your 250lbs and a MMF fighter and all the PM's where I said I was 230 lbs and a good fighter.
Why am I a dumb fuck here, because I don't have excellent writing skills, I can't articulate as well as you, my expertise does not lie in the Mental Health field so I can't quote therapeutic behavioral methods, I have a different opinion and I voice it and last but not least I am combative.
Damn if this is why well then I'll just remain a dumbfuck.
Danny, why do you keep doing this to yourself? You did the same thing, when you told me that if I respect the evils of America, You would go fuck yourself and pay for it. You are putting yourself at the mercy of the poster.
You are also showing a very real problem. You actually are at the mercy of others. You want approval. Don t start telling me about perceptions. I am trying to help ya here. Anne Bonney is correct too. Your insecurity comes across like a neon light.
Oh and BTW, I am a buck 65, and i ll still kick both of your asses.. LOL ( didn t wanna be left out)
Paul
Paul
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To me, it would not make sense that based on sending one of his kids to a program, and believing that the results were good, he would spend the rest of his life defending programs at Fornits.
Also, he some times talks as though he has so much experience with and extensive knowledge about programs, and yet when I asked him about thier methodology, and theory, he idnstead reported to me the results of the methodology, which tells me that either he does no know, or he does know that I would have tore up the theory/methodology, because it is bullshit...
I don’t even think they work to theories, Paul. There is nothing that you could tear up. Programs have a model that they work to. They measure the outcome and determine how effective their model is and adjust and make changes (based on parent and student feed back) until they have a model that they feel is effective.
Generally models are based on theories, but that s not too important. Maybe it will become important at some point, but not really right now.
What I asked you about was... you mentioned that many programs now, are designed to bring about self-esteem( please don t ask me for links.. I m not playing that game). I was wondering what the model or theory they use is to facilitate the development of healthy self-esteem. From the things that you often write, I thought you may be able to answer the question. You say that they adapt the model to bear best results based on feedback. That seems reasonable.
Right now some programs are experiencing about an 80 % or better success rate. Many people here watch as ex CEDU people come and go into different programs thinking that they influence the model, but they don’t. Programs, like any other business, hire people who have experience in the industry but the new hires need to follow the model that the program is working to (not the other way around). There is a lot of paranoia here on fornits that the industry does things in secret. But in reality they are more open than most other boarding schools because of the fact that they handle such a specialized type of student body.
You did not respond to the majority of my post. The part where I asked you what your relationship to any specific program or to programs in general is. It's as if that part didn t exist.
Can you just answer the question? Again, if you evade it, it can only be because you are hiding something.
Paul
...
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To me, it would not make sense that based on sending one of his kids to a program, and believing that the results were good, he would spend the rest of his life defending programs at Fornits.
Also, he some times talks as though he has so much experience with and extensive knowledge about programs, and yet when I asked him about thier methodology, and theory, he idnstead reported to me the results of the methodology, which tells me that either he does no know, or he does know that I would have tore up the theory/methodology, because it is bullshit...
I don’t even think they work to theories, Paul. There is nothing that you could tear up. Programs have a model that they work to. They measure the outcome and determine how effective their model is and adjust and make changes (based on parent and student feed back) until they have a model that they feel is effective.
Right now some programs are experiencing about an 80 % or better success rate. Many people here watch as ex CEDU people come and go into different programs thinking that they influence the model, but they don’t. Programs, like any other business, hire people who have experience in the industry but the new hires need to follow the model that the program is working to (not the other way around). There is a lot of paranoia here on fornits that the industry does things in secret. But in reality they are more open than most other boarding schools because of the fact that they handle such a specialized type of student body.
Lol. Much of your explanation sounds like it was skimmed off of some PR press release from corporate, intended as info for potential investors. There's a certain kind of language these press releases use -- "model," "outcome measurements," "X% success rate," etc. -- and it is more akin to marketing than it is to a description of any sort of therapeutic process or methodology. This is NOT an accurate description of what actually goes on there on a day-to-day basis; nor does it even begin to touch on program philosophy or ideology or whatever you want to call it. Why would it? It's intended for investors.
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Right now some programs are experiencing about an 80 % or better success rate.
What are your sources for this figure? What programs are you referring to?
Link to one of the Studies (http://http://www.scribd.com/doc/503084/Residential-Treatment-Outcomes-Study)
...
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and doesn't even begin to touch on program philosophy or ideology or whatever you want to call it.
I am fully aware of that. He either does not know what the theory, model, philosophy, ideaology, etc. is, or he doesn t want to take a risk in putting out there.
I am only acknowledging that the feedback thing sounds reasonable. Perhaps, not exceptional, but reasonable...
Ursus, you say that what he said is false.. Do you have knowledge of the treatment center that his daughter attended?
Paul
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Generally models are based on theories, but that s not too important. Maybe it will become important at some point, but not really right now.
What I asked you about was... you mentioned that many programs now, are designed to bring about self-esteem( please don t ask me for links.. I m not playing that game). I was wondering what the model or theory they use is to facilitate the development of healthy self-esteem. From the things that you often write, I thought you may be able to answer the question. You say that they adapt the model to bear best results based on feedback. That seems reasonable.
I really don’t know the ins and outs of the various models. My background is in engineering not therapy. In a nutshell they work with the kids and insure they pick goals that they can be successful at and work on building their self esteem.
You did not respond to the majority of my post. The part where I asked you what your relationship to any specific program or to programs in general is. It's as if that part didn t exist.
Can you just answer the question? Again, if you evade it, it can only be because you are hiding something.
I was not purposely skipping your question. I am a parent who had a child in Wilderness and ASR.
...
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I haven t been around during all this "The Who", and "Whooter" -shit.
I am assuming that he works for some prgram... and I did see that posted somewhere today. Has he ever said that? Or is tat just an assumption.
To me, it would not make sense that based on sending one of his kids to a program, and believing that the results were good, he would spend the rest of his life defending programs at Fornits.
Also, he some times talks as though he has so much experience with and extensive knowledge about programs, and yet when I asked him about thier methodology, and theory, he idnstead reported to me the results of the methodology, which tells me that either he does no know, or he does know that I would have tore up the theory/methodology, because it is bullshit...
Hey, Whooter, who are you?
What are past and present relationships to programs( specific programs or generally speaking)?
Can you answer these questions? They are very straight-forward.
And if you are on the up and up, you will want to answer them. If you evade, then you are clearly hiding something.....
Paul St. John
PS Any input from other fornits posters? facts please... no baseless accusations..
And Danny, if you think that Elan is so bad, and you want to expose it and shut it down, why do you spend all your time defending programs you know nothing about, and almost no time talking about the evils of Elan?
You never answered me B4. Are you standing by your statement that your sole purpose here is to make suer that TC's get a fair trial, or will you just admit that that was a convenient thing to say at the time, so that we can move past it?
lill johnny I have already had you in my class, nothing more I can teach ya dude. Your a cocky guy who knows everything. So I handed you off to the whootman, maybe with his patience he can get through your thick head.
Oh by the way instead of asking your (I am so smart look at me) questions, listen for a while.
Danny
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Ursus, you say that what he said is false.. Do you have knowledge of the treatment center that his daughter attended?
I did not say it was "false." Perhaps I could have used a better choice of words. What I said was:
"This is NOT an accurate description of what actually goes on there on a day-to-day basis; nor does it even
begin to touch on program philosophy or ideology or whatever you want to call it. Why would it? It's intended for investors."[/list]
What I had meant to convey was: despite your request that he would give an accurate description of methodology or of ideology, he instead chose not to provide any description or info of that sort at all.
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Right now some programs are experiencing about an 80 % or better success rate.
What are your sources for this figure? What programs are you referring to?
Link to one of the Studies (http://http://www.scribd.com/doc/503084/Residential-Treatment-Outcomes-Study)
...
And don't forget..... (You didn't post the findings below. Are these the figures your referring to?)
Though reported outcomes vary widely, ranging from about 25 % to 80%, reviews suggest that 60%-80% of adolescents improve during residential treatment
A review is anything concrete, so people generally take it with a grain of salt.
And thats okay, Joel, thats the beauty of the internet, information and living in America. If you have information that you think would negate the results of the study you can contact the company that approved the study and audited the results to insure there was not conflict of interest etc. If they feel your info is justified then they will report on it.
We will wait for any changes that result, just let us know.
Oversight Company (http://http://www.wirb.com/)
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Right now some programs are experiencing about an 80 % or better success rate.
What are your sources for this figure? What programs are you referring to?
Link to one of the Studies (http://http://www.scribd.com/doc/503084/Residential-Treatment-Outcomes-Study)
...
And don't forget..... (You didn't post the findings below. Are these the figures your referring to?)
Though reported outcomes vary widely, ranging from about 25 % to 80%, reviews suggest that 60%-80% of adolescents improve during residential treatment
A review is anything concrete, so people generally take it with a grain of salt.
One way or another, I can t accept any of this... Just because of personal experience.
How do you know that a person improved?
It is not an easy thing to measure.
On face value many people leaving daytop would have been considered by many to have improved. I know that A. they hadn t, and B. they were supposed to look like they did. That s what it was all about. It was about selling a product.
"We took your druggy and made a responsible member of society out of them."
having see this, how cold I possibly accept these results, without knowing EVERYTHING about it.
At the time, when I was in daytop, the monsignor or whatever he was had a book on the market called something like " The Daytop Method". It claimed very largely across the front of the book, that Daytop had an 85 percent success rating..
Yet anyone you asked in Daytop, co-ordinator or whom ever, would say that most people go into Daytop using drugs.. and don t start their real drug taking career til after leaving, and of the people who left the program and came back, when I was there, this was clearly true.
I always thought it was funny.. They always said it like "Oh .. It s just one of those things"
They knew they were owned... most of them. I just couldn t understand why they didn t care..
Paul
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Ursus, you say that what he said is false.. Do you have knowledge of the treatment center that his daughter attended?
I did not say it was "false." Perhaps I could have used a better choice of words. What I said was:
"This is NOT an accurate description of what actually goes on there on a day-to-day basis; nor does it even
begin to touch on program philosophy or ideology or whatever you want to call it. Why would it? It's intended for investors."[/list]
What I had meant to convey was: despite your request that he would give an accurate description of methodology or of ideology, he instead chose not to provide any description or info of that sort at all.
Oh.. Okay.. I thought you meant that on a day to day basis, they do NOT adjust their model.. etc.
Paul
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I haven t been around during all this "The Who", and "Whooter" -shit.
I am assuming that he works for some prgram... and I did see that posted somewhere today. Has he ever said that? Or is tat just an assumption.
To me, it would not make sense that based on sending one of his kids to a program, and believing that the results were good, he would spend the rest of his life defending programs at Fornits.
Also, he some times talks as though he has so much experience with and extensive knowledge about programs, and yet when I asked him about thier methodology, and theory, he idnstead reported to me the results of the methodology, which tells me that either he does no know, or he does know that I would have tore up the theory/methodology, because it is bullshit...
Hey, Whooter, who are you?
What are past and present relationships to programs( specific programs or generally speaking)?
Can you answer these questions? They are very straight-forward.
And if you are on the up and up, you will want to answer them. If you evade, then you are clearly hiding something.....
Paul St. John
PS Any input from other fornits posters? facts please... no baseless accusations..
And Danny, if you think that Elan is so bad, and you want to expose it and shut it down, why do you spend all your time defending programs you know nothing about, and almost no time talking about the evils of Elan?
You never answered me B4. Are you standing by your statement that your sole purpose here is to make suer that TC's get a fair trial, or will you just admit that that was a convenient thing to say at the time, so that we can move past it?
lill johnny I have already had you in my class, nothing more I can teach ya dude. Your a cocky guy who knows everything. So I handed you off to the whootman, maybe with his patience he can get through your thick head.
Oh by the way instead of asking your (I am so smart look at me) questions, listen for a while.
Danny
LOL! Danny you are so funny! Really! Don t you know that everyone can see right through? This is not a pissing contest..
Hey when did you hand me off to Whooter... Was it when I decided of my own volition to converse with him?
Paul
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To me, it would not make sense that based on sending one of his kids to a program, and believing that the results were good, he would spend the rest of his life defending programs at Fornits.
Also, he some times talks as though he has so much experience with and extensive knowledge about programs, and yet when I asked him about thier methodology, and theory, he idnstead reported to me the results of the methodology, which tells me that either he does no know, or he does know that I would have tore up the theory/methodology, because it is bullshit...
I don’t even think they work to theories, Paul. There is nothing that you could tear up. Programs have a model that they work to. They measure the outcome and determine how effective their model is and adjust and make changes (based on parent and student feed back) until they have a model that they feel is effective.
Right now some programs are experiencing about an 80 % or better success rate. Many people here watch as ex CEDU people come and go into different programs thinking that they influence the model, but they don’t. Programs, like any other business, hire people who have experience in the industry but the new hires need to follow the model that the program is working to (not the other way around). There is a lot of paranoia here on fornits that the industry does things in secret. But in reality they are more open than most other boarding schools because of the fact that they handle such a specialized type of student body.
Lol. Much of your explanation sounds like it was skimmed off of some PR press release from corporate, intended as info for potential investors. There's a certain kind of language these press releases use -- "model," "outcome measurements," "X% success rate," etc. -- and it is more akin to marketing than it is to a description of any sort of therapeutic process or methodology. This is NOT an accurate description of what actually goes on there on a day-to-day basis; nor does it even begin to touch on program philosophy or ideology or whatever you want to call it. Why would it? It's intended for investors.
Now Ursus I know most of this rebuttal is your opinion and that is fine. I have some questions if you don't mind, where did you get the concrete information that he works as a consultant for Investors, another do you find whooters presence here to be offensive as Samara stated in her post yesterday, where do your credentials come in, are you in the TC industry because you come across like your very educated in the field of Behavioral Therapy.
Not playing games here would just like to know a little about you, your thoughts and assumptions.
danny
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Oh by the way instead of asking your (I am so smart look at me) questions, listen for a while.
Danny, is this really what you think? Cause I think that you do in fact believe this..
Danny, is it inconceivable to you, that a person could ask questions, because they actually want to understand things?
LOL! danny you would hate to do business with me.. I ll tell ya that. In order to get anywhere, I think that everyone has to be one the same page.
Why would I listen for awhile.. I have done quite a bit of listening and looking through the threads, but if that is all I do, I will only learn what others randomly put out there, and not what I want to.
I am sure you think a lot about shooting people.. only kidding.. well kinda...
and so that is why I will use this analogy..
When you want to shoot something.. do you just keep shooting, and wait til one of the bullets hit your target.. or do you aim?
or to use yet another analogy.. Did your father fuck every animal in the zoo, til one was a sheep.. or did he ask the zoo-keeper where the sheep section was?
Paul
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Oh by the way instead of asking your (I am so smart look at me) questions, listen for a while.
Danny, is this really what you think? Cause I think that you do in fact believe this..
Danny, is it inconceivable to you, that a person could ask questions, because they actually want to understand things?
LOL! danny you would hate to do business with me.. I ll tell ya that. In order to get anywhere, I think that everyone has to be one the same page.
Why would I listen for awhile.. I have done quite a bit of listening and looking through the threads, but if that is all I do, I will only learn what others randomly put out there, and not what I want to.
I am sure you think a lot about shooting people.. only kidding.. well kinda...
and so that is why I will use this analogy..
When you want to shoot something.. do you just keep shooting, and wait til one of the bullets hit your target.. or do you aim?
or to use yet another analogy.. Did your father fuck every animal in the zoo, til one was a sheep.. or did he ask the zoo-keeper where the sheep section was?
Paul
Paul your right I am going to stop being a ass and get along with you. Actually I follow all of your posts, you do ask insightful questions. But when you start to side with what everyone wants to think, this is when you loose me. Paul your a independent thinker, please stay that way. Please do ask questions and ruffle the feathers.
I won't be bothering much anymore there Paul.
Danny
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Right now some programs are experiencing about an 80 % or better success rate.
What are your sources for this figure? What programs are you referring to?
Link to one of the Studies (http://http://www.scribd.com/doc/503084/Residential-Treatment-Outcomes-Study)
...
And don't forget..... (You didn't post the findings below. Are these the figures your referring to?)
Though reported outcomes vary widely, ranging from about 25 % to 80%, reviews suggest that 60%-80% of adolescents improve during residential treatment
A review is anything concrete, so people generally take it with a grain of salt.
One way or another, I can t accept any of this... Just because of personal experience.
How do you know that a person improved?
It is not an easy thing to measure.
On face value many people leaving daytop would have been considered by many to have improved. I know that A. they hadn t, and B. they were supposed to look like they did. That s what it was all about. It was about selling a product.
"We took your druggy and made a responsible member of society out of them."
having see this, how cold I possibly accept these results, without knowing EVERYTHING about it.
At the time, when I was in daytop, the monsignor or whatever he was had a book on the market called something like " The Daytop Method". It claimed very largely across the front of the book, that Daytop had an 85 percent success rating..
Yet anyone you asked in Daytop, co-ordinator or whom ever, would say that most people go into Daytop using drugs.. and don t start their real drug taking career til after leaving, and of the people who left the program and came back, when I was there, this was clearly true.
I always thought it was funny.. They always said it like "Oh .. It s just one of those things"
They knew they were owned... most of them. I just couldn t understand why they didn t care..
Paul
There were many studies conducted by various programs themselves which showed around 60 to 80% success rates depending on the program. But this particular study covered about 1,000 kids who went to programs around the country and was done by an independent company who conducts studies and it was also over seen by another independent company who audits the study and insures there was no conflict of interest and that the study was done ethically.
I have been here on fornits long enough to know regulars here will never accept any study which shows that a child was helped by the industry, but I still post the results of various studies here for those who are interested. They are readily accepted outside of fornits and by the therapeutic Community.
...
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Right now some programs are experiencing about an 80 % or better success rate.
What are your sources for this figure? What programs are you referring to?
Link to one of the Studies (http://http://www.scribd.com/doc/503084/Residential-Treatment-Outcomes-Study)
...
And don't forget..... (You didn't post the findings below. Are these the figures your referring to?)
Though reported outcomes vary widely, ranging from about 25 % to 80%, reviews suggest that 60%-80% of adolescents improve during residential treatment
A review is anything concrete, so people generally take it with a grain of salt.
One way or another, I can t accept any of this... Just because of personal experience.
How do you know that a person improved?
It is not an easy thing to measure.
On face value many people leaving daytop would have been considered by many to have improved. I know that A. they hadn t, and B. they were supposed to look like they did. That s what it was all about. It was about selling a product.
"We took your druggy and made a responsible member of society out of them."
having see this, how cold I possibly accept these results, without knowing EVERYTHING about it.
At the time, when I was in daytop, the monsignor or whatever he was had a book on the market called something like " The Daytop Method". It claimed very largely across the front of the book, that Daytop had an 85 percent success rating..
Yet anyone you asked in Daytop, co-ordinator or whom ever, would say that most people go into Daytop using drugs.. and don t start their real drug taking career til after leaving, and of the people who left the program and came back, when I was there, this was clearly true.
I always thought it was funny.. They always said it like "Oh .. It s just one of those things"
They knew they were owned... most of them. I just couldn t understand why they didn t care..
Paul
We may debate as to the reality of those statistics but the TTI can't deny the reason for them. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423)
.
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There were many studies conducted by various programs themselves which showed around 60 to 80% success rates depending on the program. But this particular study covered about 1,000 kids who went to programs around the country and was done by an independent company who conducts studies and it was also over seen by another independent company who audits the study and insures there was no conflict of interest and that the study was done ethically.
[/i]
What studies are you referring to?
I have been here on fornits long enough to know regulars here will never accept any study which shows that a child was helped by the industry, but I still post the results of various studies here for those who are interested. They are readily accepted outside of fornits and by the therapeutic Community.
You stated "but I still post the results of various studies here for those who are interested." If you could post the results in another thread to discuss that would be helpful. [/i]
Joel pick it up here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=366607#p366607)
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We may debate as to the reality of those statistics but the TTI can't deny the reason for them. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423)
.
The TTI didnt conduct the studies an outside agency did. Almost any industry is going to conduct studies to see the outcome of their work whether it be the auto industry, the food industry or the medical industry.
Although Schizophrenia is an interesting topic it doesn't apply to every discussion.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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You stated "but I still post the results of various studies here for those who are interested." If you could post the results in another thread to discuss that would be helpful.[/size]
:cry:
I created a link to the other thread for you in a previous post. Here it is again:
Joel pick it up here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=366607#p366607)
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We may debate as to the reality of those statistics but the TTI can't deny the reason for them. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423)
.
The TTI didnt conduct the studies an outside agency did. Almost any industry is going to conduct studies to see the outcome of their work whether it be the auto industry, the food industry or the medical industry.
Although Schizophrenia is an interesting topic it doesn't apply to every discussion.
...
...
Not schizophrenia, but the double bind, and it does. It is inseperable from the TTI.
.,
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We may debate as to the reality of those statistics but the TTI can't deny the reason for them. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423)
.
The TTI didnt conduct the studies an outside agency did. Almost any industry is going to conduct studies to see the outcome of their work whether it be the auto industry, the food industry or the medical industry.
Although Schizophrenia is an interesting topic it doesn't apply to every discussion.
...
...
Not schizophrenia, but the double bind, and it does. It is inseperable from the TTI.
.,
It is interesting that you think this. I have never seen this used or heard about it being used in any of the models that I have read about. Is this an old CEDU thing? How was it used on you? Can you share examples?
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An attorney in Miami was prevented from seeing one of her clients at a federal detention center due to the metal underwire in her bra, and then again for not wearing a bra, The Miami Herald reported Saturday.
Brittney Horstman attempted to visit a client held at the Miami Federal Detention Center, but security guards would not allow her to enter because the metal in her underwire bra set off the facility’s metal detectors. An internal Detention Center memo makes an exception for underwire bras, but guards still refused Horstman entry.
Horstman removed the bra in a bathroom and passed the metal detectors, but was then told that going braless was a violation of prison dress code guidelines, which also forbid women from wearing low-cut blouses or dresses, leotards, sundresses or “any type of garment that is see-through . . . or clothing that is tight and sexually suggestive or revealing.” The dress code requires that women wear bras but does not forbid underwire bras.
Link (http://http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/06/12/florida-attorney-barred-jail-bra-taking-bra/?test=latestnews)
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We may debate as to the reality of those statistics but the TTI can't deny the reason for them. viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423)
.
The TTI didnt conduct the studies an outside agency did. Almost any industry is going to conduct studies to see the outcome of their work whether it be the auto industry, the food industry or the medical industry.
Although Schizophrenia is an interesting topic it doesn't apply to every discussion.
...
...
Not schizophrenia, but the double bind, and it does. It is inseperable from the TTI.
.,
It is interesting that you think this. I have never seen this used or heard about it being used in any of the models that I have read about. Is this an old CEDU thing? How was it used on you? Can you share examples?
...
It’s not so much a question of being used within a model, the TTI itself is a model of the double bind and vice versa, and the double bind is the overall context within which therapy is held, and therefore is part of the definition of it. I thought I had been pretty clear in the link.
A better approach to understanding it is to ask the question ‘how does the TTI not represent a double bind context? ‘
I’ll try to give a possible example. A great many program teens (I like to call them projectipants, or projected participants due to the inability to identify their level of personal involvement) are enduring therapy in a program against their will. You’ve heard the phrase ‘ you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink’, well neither can you make a resistant teen ‘want’ therapy, or want to personally grow, or force someone to improve their self esteem.
I know it requires actual experience to understand, but can you imagine being forcefully taken from your home and detained and then have those people put you through a process where you were supposed to work on improving your self esteem in some way, say ‘ exhibiting more confidence’ or ‘ learning to take a compliment well’.
It is laughable, for someone living in reality, and not in a program, to hear about this taking place. But it is distressful and dissociating to actually have to act in this context.
Can you imagine being held against your will by someone who says, ‘I keep complimenting you on how smart you are, why won’t you just accept it? You just shun me away like you don’t really believe that about yourself.’
Btw if u want to continue this on the Double Bind thread please do.
.
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It’s not so much a question of being used within a model, the TTI itself is a model of the double bind and vice versa, and the double bind is the overall context within which therapy is held, and therefore is part of the definition of it. I thought I had been pretty clear in the link.
A better approach to understanding it is to ask the question ‘how does the TTI not represent a double bind context?
I’ll try to give a possible example. A great many program teens (I like to call them projectipants, or projected participants due to the inability to identify their level of personal involvement) are enduring therapy in a program against their will. You’ve heard the phrase ‘ you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink’, well neither can you make a resistant teen ‘want’ therapy, or want to personally grow, or force someone to improve their self esteem.
I know it requires actual experience to understand, but can you imagine being forcefully taken from your home and detained and then have those people put you through a process where you were supposed to work on improving your self esteem in some way, say ‘ exhibiting more confidence’ or ‘ learning to take a compliment well’.
It is laughable, for someone living in reality, and not in a program, to hear about this taking place. But it is distressful and dissociating to actually have to act in this context.
Can you imagine being held against your will by someone who says, ‘I keep complimenting you on how smart you are, why won’t you just accept it? You just shun me away like you don’t really believe that about yourself.’
Btw if u want to continue this on the Double Bind thread please do.
Awake you make it all sound so simple like you get it and the thousands of professionals in and out of the TTI don't. This is a amazing analysis, Double Bind. It is a model for the Program I attended yet I seriously don't believe that Joe Ricci or Dr. Gerald Davidson understood or where cognizant of, the complexities of this method/manipulation of communication, no way. They did not know this is what was going on nor the power of it (neither did I).
Now I have a little brain here and I will try to ask the questions I have been wanting to ask since this came about. Here is a comment you made above, "A better approach to understanding it is to ask the question ‘how does the TTI not represent a double bind context"? Please explain. Another question what happens when all the examples are not met you mentioned above and the program is not forcing you to do the behavioral modification exercises but rather Teaching. Isn't being taught optional in it's essence, you (the projectipant) decide.
danny
P.S. I am also posting this on the Double Bind thread.
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It’s not so much a question of being used within a model, the TTI itself is a model of the double bind and vice versa, and the double bind is the overall context within which therapy is held, and therefore is part of the definition of it. I thought I had been pretty clear in the link.
A better approach to understanding it is to ask the question ‘how does the TTI not represent a double bind context?
I’ll try to give a possible example. A great many program teens (I like to call them projectipants, or projected participants due to the inability to identify their level of personal involvement) are enduring therapy in a program against their will. You’ve heard the phrase ‘ you can lead a horse to water but you cant make him drink’, well neither can you make a resistant teen ‘want’ therapy, or want to personally grow, or force someone to improve their self esteem.
I know it requires actual experience to understand, but can you imagine being forcefully taken from your home and detained and then have those people put you through a process where you were supposed to work on improving your self esteem in some way, say ‘ exhibiting more confidence’ or ‘ learning to take a compliment well’.
It is laughable, for someone living in reality, and not in a program, to hear about this taking place. But it is distressful and dissociating to actually have to act in this context.
Can you imagine being held against your will by someone who says, ‘I keep complimenting you on how smart you are, why won’t you just accept it? You just shun me away like you don’t really believe that about yourself.’
Btw if u want to continue this on the Double Bind thread please do.
Awake you make it all sound so simple like you get it and the thousands of professionals in and out of the TTI don't. This is a amazing analysis, Double Bind. It is a model for the Program I attended yet I seriously don't believe that Joe Ricci or Dr. Gerald Davidson understood or where cognizant of, the complexities of this method/manipulation of communication, no way. They did not know this is what was going on nor the power of it (neither did I).
Now I have a little brain here and I will try to ask the questions I have been wanting to ask since this came about. Here is a comment you made above, "A better approach to understanding it is to ask the question ‘how does the TTI not represent a double bind context"? Please explain. Another question what happens when all the examples are not met you mentioned above and the program is not forcing you to do the behavioral modification exercises but rather Teaching. Isn't being taught optional in it's essence, you (the projectipant) decide.
danny
P.S. I am also posting this on the Double Bind thread.
Danny I’ve got your reply over here. Whooter, I hope you want to continue to participate in the discussion about these programs here also.
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30423)
...
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Let's keep it short and go over just Whooter's lies from this thread.
Lie #1: Whooter claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1: Whooter had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Lie #2: Whooter claims to be just a "regular parent with no ties to the industry."
Truth #2: Whooter already admitted he was part of a "statistical group to assess TBS safety" that met in Chicago. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Lie #3: Whooter claims not be John Reuben.
Truth #3: whooter has contacted at least one parent from this forum and provided her the email address "[email protected]" for her to contact him "outside of Fornits" because "everyone here has an agenda to discredit programs." The email address has been verified to be that of John Reuben and is the admin email account at savingteens.org. This was proven by posting the original PM from TheWho to Concerned Parent, which TheWho subsequently altered in a quote and copped to altering it when called out.
Lie #4: RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #4: Whooter dropped this claim and went on to blame someone else for being "Concerned Parent." Interestingly enough, Whooter has actually claimed to BE RobertBruce many times and later copped to fabricating at least one "lookalike" RobertBruce login to try to impersonate him (the login he admitted to creating "for fun" was 'RobertBruce .' with a space and a period at the end).
Lie #5: Ajax13 is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #5: Ajax13 is not Concerned Parent, but Whooter clings to this meme like a life raft anyway.
Lie #6: Ajax13 AND RobertBruce are "Concerned Parent."
Truth #6: Both are provably NOT "Concerned Parent." Whooter seems to have dropped this notion now because obviously they both couldn't be "Concerned Parent" at the same time, but that simple logic didn't stop him from floating it to distract from the conversation.
Lie #7: Whooter claimed to have no criminal record when confronted.
Truth #7: Whooter had already admitted years ago, on this board, that he was "arrested several times in Boston and once in Ann Arbor Michigan."
Lie #8: Whooter claims not to have lied at all.
Truth #8: Whooter has been caught lying like a rug using only his own posts and PMs as evidence of the lies. Essentially, he lied about everything, then had to walk it all back piece by piece as he was caught again and again. Now the only thing from the above list he won't cop to is being Reuben, but considering he lied about and was proven lying about the rest of the items in this thread, his assertion is just him howling from being bitten so badly.
So, that's 8 full-fledged, lie-through-your-teeth prevarications offered by TheWho in just this single thread. People should believe him for what reason now?
Sorry, Whooter, your lying chickens have come home to roost and nobody here believes anything you say anymore. Better luck next time.
Let's take a deep breath and remind ourselves of who and what Whooter actually is before we go assigning any credibility to what he says. Whooter lies like a rug.
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Let's keep it short and go over just Whooter's lies from this thread.
Lie #1: Whooter claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1: Whooter had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Lie #2: Whooter claims to be just a "regular parent with no ties to the industry."
Truth #2: Whooter already admitted he was part of a "statistical group to assess TBS safety" that met in Chicago. This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.
Lie #3: Whooter claims not be John Reuben.
Truth #3: whooter has contacted at least one parent from this forum and provided her the email address "[email protected]" for her to contact him "outside of Fornits" because "everyone here has an agenda to discredit programs." The email address has been verified to be that of John Reuben and is the admin email account at savingteens.org. This was proven by posting the original PM from TheWho to Concerned Parent, which TheWho subsequently altered in a quote and copped to altering it when called out.
Lie #4: RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #4: Whooter dropped this claim and went on to blame someone else for being "Concerned Parent." Interestingly enough, Whooter has actually claimed to BE RobertBruce many times and later copped to fabricating at least one "lookalike" RobertBruce login to try to impersonate him (the login he admitted to creating "for fun" was 'RobertBruce .' with a space and a period at the end).
Lie #5: Ajax13 is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #5: Ajax13 is not Concerned Parent, but Whooter clings to this meme like a life raft anyway.
Lie #6: Ajax13 AND RobertBruce are "Concerned Parent."
Truth #6: Both are provably NOT "Concerned Parent." Whooter seems to have dropped this notion now because obviously they both couldn't be "Concerned Parent" at the same time, but that simple logic didn't stop him from floating it to distract from the conversation.
Lie #7: Whooter claimed to have no criminal record when confronted.
Truth #7: Whooter had already admitted years ago, on this board, that he was "arrested several times in Boston and once in Ann Arbor Michigan."
Lie #8: Whooter claims not to have lied at all.
Truth #8: Whooter has been caught lying like a rug using only his own posts and PMs as evidence of the lies. Essentially, he lied about everything, then had to walk it all back piece by piece as he was caught again and again. Now the only thing from the above list he won't cop to is being Reuben, but considering he lied about and was proven lying about the rest of the items in this thread, his assertion is just him howling from being bitten so badly.
So, that's 8 full-fledged, lie-through-your-teeth prevarications offered by TheWho in just this single thread. People should believe him for what reason now?
Sorry, Whooter, your lying chickens have come home to roost and nobody here believes anything you say anymore. Better luck next time.
Let's take a deep breath and remind ourselves of who and what Whooter actually is before we go assigning any credibility to what he says. Whooter lies like a rug.
DJ, your calling someone out on a arrest record of jay walking and civil disobedience, unlawful congregating/protesting. Why don't we pull up your criminal record prior to 18 yrs of age and after. I bet that would be interesting.
Who gives a rats ass what he is, Jesus freaking Christ DJ, you waste more space on this site with this stupid shit.
Like your everything you say you are, you were staff have you admitted to all your sins here on this site. NO!!!!!
Shit you were threatening to kick my ass about 2 months ago, telling me that you were 250lbs.Jujitsu fighter.
I have read your list of lies, psst.......Jeesh. Maybe just maybe you have been played.....sucker.....lol.
So please you phony fuck go find your truth and stop worrying about the rest of the population here.
Oh my, my "prevarications" what a big word for you. Did you want to say lie but to impress your buddies around here, you have to be a wordsmith.
Well I can't judge you because I suffer from circumlocution.
I will say this DJ, if you were trying to discredit him, I don't think you have succeeded. What you have accomplished is showing everyone that you are fanatical idiot who likes terrorizing folks with skewed perceptions of the truth.
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Really, Danny? Is your drug-addled little brain so feeble that you can't even keep track of whom you've been threatening with violence? Let me refresh your memory: You PMed me threatening me with violence. Remember now? You said you were going to be in my area around July 4th? Ring a bell, wino? Or were you drunk or mainlining the horse that day? I simply responded to your threat of violence against me with a warning about what may potentially happen to you if you were to embark on your misguided mission of physically assaulting me, including the liklihood of your cranium ending up like a jigsaw puzzle; just a fair warning, not a threat.
Also, please don't confuse your being a "staff member" with my employ. Danny, you were a junkie resident that was used as a tool to punish, threaten and commit violence against other residents, like when you dragged an adolescent girl on a rope behind your van, Jasper, Texas-style. I, on the other hand, was a professional employee, you know, with an advanced college degree and duly licensed to facilitate therapy. I don't have any "guilt" to "cop to," like you do, Danno.
And, no, it isn't my intent to discredit Whooter. He has already fully discredited himself many times over and I simply am pointing out, with links to his very own words, what he routinely lies about.
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Danny, this Dysfunction Junction guy has been blowing smoke up your rectum. He never had any advanced degree. When he was pushed out of Daytop and could not get another program job, because of background check requirements, he worked on computers after his unemployment ran out and states he "planned" on working on a degree. The guys got more stories than J.D.’s got Salinger. Just search “Daytop” under the name “dysfunction Junction”. This forum is a good read sometimes and I like trying to figure out all the characters and why everyone is here. Cannot figure out why whooter sits back and takes this trolls crap all the time.
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Really, Danny? Is your drug-addled little brain so feeble that you can't even keep track of whom you've been threatening with violence? Let me refresh your memory: You PMed me threatening me with violence. Remember now? You said you were going to be in my area around July 4th? Ring a bell, wino? Or were you drunk or mainlining the horse that day? I simply responded to your threat of violence against me with a warning about what may potentially happen to you if you were to embark on your misguided mission of physically assaulting me, including the liklihood of your cranium ending up like a jigsaw puzzle; just a fair warning, not a threat.
DJ, if you could get over yourself long enough to really remember the circumstances, then you would remember you saying to me that someone should kick my ass, so I PM'ed you, to call you out. You then PM'ed me back to tell me that you are 250lbs and a MMF fighter, you fucking pussy. Now your right I will be in NYC in 2 days, you have my phone number lets discuss the rest then.
DJ I did not start this tuff talk and by your track record of talking tuff, you sound like one big pussy I would enjoy meeting in New York, so please call or SHUT YOUR MOUTH.
You talk shit/threaten me again and I will cash your ticket, that is a promise. I am done fucking with your candy ass shit.
Also, please don't confuse your being a "staff member" with my employ. Danny, you were a junkie resident that was used as a tool to punish, threaten and commit violence against other residents, like when you dragged an adolescent girl on a rope behind your van, Jasper, Texas-style. I, on the other hand, was a professional employee, you know, with an advanced college degree and duly licensed to facilitate therapy. I don't have any "guilt" to "cop to," like you do, Danno.
Listen that is a education you recieved after you cleaned yourself up. Most of us did the same thing, I hold a Bachelors Degree of Business, so what. I own a medium size business. Trust me your still a idiot. Yes I was a junkie, wino, criminal, womanizer, gambler, drug dealer ect..... I have nothing to hide, son. That was then this is now and right now what the hell have you done with your silly life. Aside from hanging on Whooters ass.
So you were in Daytop. You must have a criminal record, drug history. You seemed to skip over answering that from my last post. I always find it amazing around here how everyone (members fornits) want to judge others for there past/present transgressions yet they don't want to disclose theirs. Which are usually worse then the person they are confronting.
You really believe DJ, that I dragged Mary O'brian behind a car, after everything I have written about her on this site. Your a sick, very sick man.
You were a professional employee.... :roflmao: :roflmao:
So now were calling ourselves professionals, ya that makes the pill being swallowed go down so much easier.
DJ, this makes your bio, sound even worse. Like you actually knew that the abuse you were committing was wrong yet you continued to perpetrate upon the kids. That you literally understood intellectually the behavioral methods were constitutionally wrong.
So I would then have to ascertain that you are a Professional Psychotic Employee. :poison: :poison: :poison:
You are a whack-job.
DJ, my participation in the TTI is beyond your comprehension so I will not bore you. I am still involved but it is on the periphery.
And, no, it isn't my intent to discredit Whooter. He has already fully discredited himself many times over and I simply am pointing out, with links to his very own words, what he routinely lies about.
DJ, you are sleeping. Wake-up!!!!!!!!
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Danny, this Dysfunction Junction guy has been blowing smoke up your rectum. He never had any advanced degree. When he was pushed out of Daytop and could not get another program job, because of background check requirements, he worked on computers after his unemployment ran out and states he "planned" on working on a degree. The guys got more stories than J.D.’s got Salinger. Just search “Daytop” under the name “dysfunction Junction”. This forum is a good read sometimes and I like trying to figure out all the characters and why everyone is here. Cannot figure out why whooter sits back and takes this trolls crap all the time.
Thanks for the heads up....I like Mitt also.
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Trust me your still a idiot.
:rofl: Wonderful command of the English language, Danno. Bravo. You sure sound like a college graduate. And, no, I was never in Daytop, dummy. I worked for Daytop. It's called reading, Danny boy...Left to right, top to bottom. A group of words makes up a sentence. You ought to try it sometime.
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Trust me your still a idiot.
:rofl: Wonderful command of the English language, Danno. Bravo. You sure sound like a college graduate. And, no, I was never in Daytop, dummy. I worked for Daytop. It's called reading, Danny boy...Left to right, top to bottom. A group of words makes up a sentence. You ought to try it sometime.
This is it, your going to regurgitate what Anne says, well thank you very much. Ya kno what, I don't care about my reading, writing, sentences, grammar or spelling, you win...OK. :roflmao: :roflmao:
Well at least I am a college graduate you seem to lie about your creditials.
I can't believe that your a liar, you are that insecure about your personal value that you would lie to me. I am nobody, just some guy you read on a web site, dude grow up.
DJ this has been fun but it has to end now, I hope you find your way. Didn't you go to Straight.
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Oh, be still, my beating heart. Danny is going to go away. If only it were plausible...
Anyway, Danno, I haven't lied to you. I just find it ironic that Whooter, using one of his many logins, Mitt Romney, actually just made up a shitpot of falsehoods and you ate it up, hook, line and sinker whilst never even being aware how Whooter is playing you like a fiddle and getting you to do and say the things his carefully crafted marketing persona ought not to say, lest his cover be blown.
Sadly, Danny, you're too ignorant even to realize you're a dupe. Once more, let me reiterate, I was never a resident at any treatment facilities, TTI or conventional, community-based. No matter how you struggle to fit me into that mold, it just isn't so (and, yes, before you ask again, this means I did not go to Straight).
I will offer you my CV just to avoid any further "misconceptions" on your part:
1992 BA, dual major, psychology and sociology, concentrations in early childhood development and juvenile delinquency, respectively.
1995 MSW
1998 MCSE (mostly worthless now, as this is a Windows NT certificate and is well outdated)
2005 MBA, Human Resources Management
2009 PhD, Economics (this is a research degree, I am not an economist)
I have been very fortunate to work for a great company who paid for my MBA and PhD. All of my academic acheivements came after a felony arrest and conviction at the age of 19 under New York's draconian Rockefeller laws. I was a sophomore living in a fraternity house with 50 other brothers and several of us were quite enterprising in selling all sorts of controlled substances to other college kids, but I was not a heavy user of hard drugs, preferring the typical pot and acid diet of a college kid. I made a boatload of money, squirreled it away and subsequently spent it all, and then some, on my legal defense to insure I didn't get sent up for 25 years after four of us got pinched. Instead I had to go through a state program called "Shock Camp" which is the typical model used at kiddie boot camps now - highly abusive, brutal and nearly totally ineffective at reducing recidivism. I am happily married to a 5th grade school teacher and have one child, a baby girl, 5 months old today. I have posted this before and have always been 100% honest about it. I doubt you'll get any such honesty from Whooter or any of his other personalities.
Are you happy now, Danny? I hope so, because you are one miserable son of a bitch, boy.
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DJ, treating Whooter or Danny like human beings is a waste of time and forum space. You've been here for years. You *really* should know this by now.
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"Dysfunction Junction" wrote:
Oh, be still, my beating heart. Danny is going to go away. If only it were plausible...
Nope......
Anyway, Danno, I haven't lied to you. I just find it ironic that Whooter, using one of his many logins, Mitt Romney, actually just made up a shitpot of falsehoods and you ate it up, hook, line and sinker whilst never even being aware how Whooter is playing you like a fiddle and getting you to do and say the things his carefully crafted marketing persona ought not to say, lest his cover be blown.
I know it looks like I just fell off the turnip truck this afternoon, doesn't it. Welt, I didn't. Jeesh, is whooter really doing this all by himself, damn I never get to have any fun. Well somebody has to play the fiddle....lol.
I wonder who is dancing.
Sadly, Danny, you're too ignorant even to realize you're a dupe.
Well someone has to do it.
Once more, let me reiterate, I was never a resident at any treatment facilities, TTI or conventional, community-based. No matter how you struggle to fit me into that mold, it just isn't so (and, yes, before you ask again, this means I did not go to Straight).
Yet you ended up in a boot camp/program for dealing dope. Your one of us, asshole.
I will offer you my CV just to avoid any further "misconceptions" on your part:
1992 BA, dual major, psychology and sociology, concentrations in early childhood development and juvenile delinquency, respectively.
1995 MSW
1998 MCSE (mostly worthless now, as this is a Windows NT certificate and is well outdated)
2005 MBA, Human Resources Management
2009 PhD, Economics (this is a research degree, I am not an economist)
I have been very fortunate to work for a great company who paid for my MBA and PhD.
I applaud your acheivements.
All of my academic acheivements came after a felony arrest and conviction at the age of 19 under New York's draconian Rockefeller laws. I was a sophomore living in a fraternity house with 50 other brothers and several of us were quite enterprising in selling all sorts of controlled substances to other college kids, but I was not a heavy user of hard drugs, preferring the typical pot and acid diet of a college kid. I made a boatload of money, squirreled it away and subsequently spent it all, and then some, on my legal defense to insure I didn't get sent up for 25 years after four of us got pinched. Instead I had to go through a state program called "Shock Camp" which is the typical model used at kiddie boot camps now - highly abusive, brutal and nearly totally ineffective at reducing recidivism.
You were a dope fiend who was selling dope, not hard to explain. There are dope fiends and dope in college as much as there are in Benson Hurst. You got popped and like everyone else around here your embarrassed/ashamed about your past so you want to play it down and blame it on draconian laws and bullshit bootcamps, well excuse me, most of the other members want to blame their past transgressions on their program experiences. Ya know they were perfectly adjusted children whose parents were conned over drinks one night into believing their kids are screwed, by the big bad TTI machine.
You were selling dope, what the fuck do you think was supposed to be the consequences. Who gives a shit if you learned anything, in spite of yourself you did. I bet you never sold drugs again at school.
I am happily married to a 5th grade school teacher and have one child, a baby girl, 5 months old today.
Congrats, I have 2 children, much older.
I have posted this before and have always been 100% honest about it. I doubt you'll get any such honesty from Whooter or any of his other personalities.
You both don't share honesty with one another.
Are you happy now, Danny? I hope so, because you are one miserable son of a bitch, boy.
First off, I was happy before this post and will be after, in spite of this post.
Why am I a miserable SOB......lol.
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Leave it to Mitt Romney to dig out the truth. Good for him. So Danny when DJ told you he had advanced degrees when working for Daytop and HLA he was not being all together truthful with you. Previous posts show he never had an advanced degree when working for a program.
In fact he edited his post from 2005 just today in an attempt to cover and alter previous statements.
Here take a look at the bottom of this post:
DJ's altered post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
at the bottom of the post it says:
“Last edited by Dysfunction Junction on 30 Jun 2010, 20:30, edited 1 time in total.”
(The above edit occurred a half hour after he wrote his previous "education time line" post to you fyi)
He edited details to cover what he is saying today. This is DJ’s MO and you will find he does this often when caught in a lie.
I really don’t mind DJ trolling me as he does because it is a reminder that I exposed him many times in the past. As you have probably noticed here, Danny, I don’t argue much with DJ. The reason is that I am a firm believer that those who work day and night solely to discredit others on an open forum usually have many skeletons in their own closet and always slip up as I showed you today. I don’t want to put the guy down, he is probably a decent guy, but If a person has to constantly go back and rewrite posts from 5 years ago just to cover statements he is saying today that shows a desperation that I cannot relate to.
Good luck with your discussion with him. If you stick with the facts then he will never be able to keep up. It is actually fun after awhile but I grew tired of him.
...
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Funny thing...My last name was posted in that post. Thanks to Mitt, I read that and edited it out. Nothing more, nothing less. Just a post (among a few) left over from a time before I knew posting that information here was a bad idea. Thanks, Mitt, for pointing me at it. Much appreciated.
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Funny thing...My last name was posted in that post. Thanks to Mitt, I read that and edited it out. Nothing more, nothing less. Just a post (among a few) left over from a time before I knew posting that information here was a bad idea. Thanks, Mitt, for pointing me at it. Much appreciated.
Wow, that was a poor attempt, you used that excuse several times, DJ, (its getting old). You were caught plain and simple and your back peddling is getting old too. It came right after Mitt called you on your education lie. Your last name isnt in the database you searched for that years ago on previous edits. lol.
Just admit to Danny that you didnt have an advanced degree while working at Daytop and HLA. Its so sad to continuously watch you try to back out of your own statements.
...
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Lols. No proof, no quotes as usual. I completed my masters while working at HLA and worked at Daytop after that. Oops, there goes your "educational timeline."
Since you claim to have access to kids' treatment records from HLA (you said you had a copy of RobertBruce's treatment plan for "gay issues" and could prove he went there for only a few weeks - you never delivered, just slandered). I guess your sources could easily supply you with my employee file. I'll wait for you to post it.
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Leave it to Mitt Romney to dig out the truth. Good for him. So Danny when DJ told you he had advanced degrees when working for Daytop and HLA he was not being all together truthful with you. Previous posts show he never had an advanced degree when working for a program.
In fact he edited his post from 2005 just today in an attempt to cover and alter previous statements.
Here take a look at the bottom of this post:
DJ's altered post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
at the bottom of the post it says:
“Last edited by Dysfunction Junction on 30 Jun 2010, 20:30, edited 1 time in total.”
(The above edit occurred a half hour after he wrote his previous "education time line" post to you fyi)
He edited details to cover what he is saying today. This is DJ’s MO and you will find he does this often when caught in a lie.
I really don’t mind DJ trolling me as he does because it is a reminder that I exposed him many times in the past. As you have probably noticed here, Danny, I don’t argue much with DJ. The reason is that I am a firm believer that those who work day and night solely to discredit others on an open forum usually have many skeletons in their own closet and always slip up as I showed you today. I don’t want to put the guy down, he is probably a decent guy, but If a person has to constantly go back and rewrite posts from 5 years ago just to cover statements he is saying today that shows a desperation that I cannot relate to.
Good luck with your discussion with him. If you stick with the facts then he will never be able to keep up. It is actually fun after awhile but I grew tired of him.
...
Glad I could help. I usually dont get involved but I enjoy reading here and had to speak up when I noticed Dysfunction Junction altering his posts from 5 years ago right after he was challenged on the facts of his education.
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Well, TheWho/Whooter/Mitt Romney used to claim I never worked in the industry, then never worked at HLA. He of course now admits those facts so his position is evolving as he can't deny the facts anymore. That's a good sign. It shows progress and it's a big step for TheWho/Whooter/Mitt Romney to admit he has been wrong all along. Hopefully this progress will continue for TheWho/Whooter/Mitt Romney and he will begin to get honest about himself. We'll have to wait and see I suppose...
Oh, and Whooter, why would you make up an obviously false statement like this: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=345#p368270)
“Last edited by Dysfunction Junction on 30 Jun 2010, 20:30, edited 1 time in total.”
(The above edit occurred a half hour after he wrote his previous "education time line" post to you fyi)
20:30 GMT is 3:30pm EST, right? But my post to Danny was at 7:29pm. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=345#p368264) Please explain how 7:29pm is a half hour before 3:30pm. I'm interested to hear how you can explain this, lols. Making up post times that anybody can see for themselves (very sloppy work), using several logins and railing against people who he claims "spend day and night trying to discedit others" while doing exactly that with the only "result" to show being a conclusion that 7:29pm is a half hour before 3:30pm. Hmmmmm....
Whooter, being a databse expert and all, ought to be able to discern this not-so-subtle-difference in time stamps. :roflmao: :beat: Oops. Maybe you should just come clean with Danny and admit you manufactured the "timeline"? ; ) Just sayin'...
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I get 56 minutes
Yesterday, 15:34 Danny responded to the heads up that DJ didn’t have advanced degrees while at Daytop and HLA.
This set Dysfunction Junction on a mission to alter up his past posts.
16:30 Dysfunction Junction edited his posts from 5 years ago to alter the truth and cover his lie. (Just one example)
20:29 Dysfunction Junction completes his new timeline and posts it.
22:10 Whooter exposes Dysfunction Junction via edit marks.
Why is someone so desperate that they have to lie about their education just to show someone else up? You were both staff at programs, why not just be honest?
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There you go, Mitt...err...Whooter... Now that your little story has been debunked you have to go and change it. Sorry to say you've been QFT and can't wiggle out of your claims that 7:29pm is a half hour before 3:30pm. It's great to watch you squirm, with multiple personalities, no less, to try to discredit people. For being such a stickler for timelines when you were proven to have lied about your little trip to Chicago for a TTI meeting you claimed to chair do you really expect others to give you a free pass when you manufacture a timeline? It's OK, you're "probably a nice guy who means well." :rofl: I think it's better for the forums if you stick to trolling me and making up timelines rather than just posting marketing spin for programs. I'm sure nobody minds.
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I get 56 minutes
Yesterday, 15:34 Danny responded to the heads up that DJ didn’t have advanced degrees while at Daytop and HLA.
This set Dysfunction Junction on a mission to alter up his past posts.
16:30 Dysfunction Junction edited his posts from 5 years ago to alter the truth and cover his lie. (Just one example)
20:29 Dysfunction Junction completes his new timeline and posts it.
22:10 Whooter exposes Dysfunction Junction via edit marks.
Why is someone so desperate that they have to lie about their education just to show someone else up? You were both staff at programs, why not just be honest?
Mitt has been caught a few times up there in Massachusetts himself so I don’t think he will be too hard on you. We never see eye to eye on anything. I would suggest trying to get the focus off of yourself, Dysfunction Junction, and that post that you altered. Try to put the focus on Whooter and maybe people will forget about what you did. It stinks that they have that dam edit stamp, no getting around that. Its like leaving behind DNA on some girls clothes, there is no refuting it. All you can do is change the subject, maybe people could become interested in global warming?
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The "Ever Changing Story" by TheWho/Whooter/Mitt Romney/Al Gore, et al. How many logins does that make for you now? 5? 10?? I'm guessing you're out of work again? ;) Too much time on your hands.
Just curious if you ever did a search on your posts? I like the way you went back and scrubbed the history of how your daughter failed after Aspen, estranged herself from you, dropped out of high school, drank, did drugs, etc. and turned it into "My daughter did very well after ASR." A search of "TheWho" posts for the word "edit" reveals a looong history of going back to scrub weeks, months, and yes, even years later. Dozens upon dozens of edits. Hmmm... A bit disingenuous? Methinks the lady doth protest too much.
Still waiting for your explanation of how 7:29pm occurs a half hour (or 54 minutes, or two weeks or five years, whatever your new story is now) before 3:30pm. Once you can explain this time warp we can move on. You really put your foot in your mouth on that one, TheWho/Whooter/Mitt Romney/Al Gore/Robert Bruce ./Robert Bruces, etc.
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I get 56 minutes
Yesterday, 15:34 Danny responded to the heads up that DJ didn’t have advanced degrees while at Daytop and HLA.
This set Dysfunction Junction on a mission to alter up his past posts.
16:30 Dysfunction Junction edited his posts from 5 years ago to alter the truth and cover his lie. (Just one example)
20:29 Dysfunction Junction completes his new timeline and posts it.
22:10 Whooter exposes Dysfunction Junction via edit marks.
Why is someone so desperate that they have to lie about their education just to show someone else up? You were both staff at programs, why not just be honest?
Mitt has been caught a few times up there in Massachusetts himself so I don’t think he will be too hard on you. We never see eye to eye on anything. I would suggest trying to get the focus off of yourself, Dysfunction Junction, and that post that you altered. Try to put the focus on Whooter and maybe people will forget about what you did. It stinks that they have that dam edit stamp, no getting around that. Its like leaving behind DNA on some girls clothes, there is no refuting it. All you can do is change the subject, maybe people could become interested in global warming?
Not sure I agree with you there Al, The ”time stamp” will always be there and will show that Dysfunction Junction altered a post from 5 years ago just “after” he was challenged about his educational credentials. He needs to get rid of the time stamp somehow and address the issue straight on. Not deflect and hope for the best as you suggest.
DJ's altered post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
at the bottom of the post it says:
“Last edited by Dysfunction Junction on 30 Jun 2010, 20:30, edited 1 time in total.”
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Should Dysfunction Junction have altered his posts before he started the argument not after? You betcha!!
In Alaska we clean our guns before hunting season.
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DJ. Seriously. You're at page 25 of a thread that no one is going to read.
Whooter can't help himself. You can. And you're continually replying to what is effectively a badly-written Eliza bot.
Before you make one more reply to any of this faggotry, consider better uses for your time. There's a whole big Fornits Wiki that needs updating, and a shitload of parents who have no idea what they're getting into. If you really need to debunk him to someone dumb enough to listen to this shit, an image has been provided.
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I get 56 minutes
Yesterday, 15:34 Danny responded to the heads up that DJ didn’t have advanced degrees while at Daytop and HLA.
This set Dysfunction Junction on a mission to alter up his past posts.
16:30 Dysfunction Junction edited his posts from 5 years ago to alter the truth and cover his lie. (Just one example)
20:29 Dysfunction Junction completes his new timeline and posts it.
22:10 Whooter exposes Dysfunction Junction via edit marks.
Why is someone so desperate that they have to lie about their education just to show someone else up? You were both staff at programs, why not just be honest?
Mitt has been caught a few times up there in Massachusetts himself so I don’t think he will be too hard on you. We never see eye to eye on anything. I would suggest trying to get the focus off of yourself, Dysfunction Junction, and that post that you altered. Try to put the focus on Whooter and maybe people will forget about what you did. It stinks that they have that dam edit stamp, no getting around that. Its like leaving behind DNA on some girls clothes, there is no refuting it. All you can do is change the subject, maybe people could become interested in global warming?
Not sure I agree with you there Al, The ”time stamp” will always be there and will show that Dysfunction Junction altered a post from 5 years ago just “after” he was challenged about his educational credentials. He needs to get rid of the time stamp somehow and address the issue straight on. Not deflect and hope for the best as you suggest.
DJ's altered post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
at the bottom of the post it says:
“Last edited by Dysfunction Junction on 30 Jun 2010, 20:30, edited 1 time in total.”
He needs to get rid of that dam edit stamp, I agree. I am sure that marking dysfunction Junctions posts with an edit stamp against his will violates his rights and constitutional law. If he had known before hand that everyone would be privy to his edits do you think he would have done that? I think not. If this is properly researched I think Dysfunction Junction can petition fornits to have the edit stamps removed from his post and compensate him for his exposure and embarrassment.
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That’s not how things are done, Al, You democrats are all alike you want to challenge the constitution all the time. Why that is totally un-American and disrespectful to our founding fathers to try to twist or change the intentions of what was set in stone centuries ago.
I would suggest Dysfunction Junction make a donation to fornits and then out of respect fornits would perform some routine maintenance on the database which inadvertently results in the edits stamps to disappear. Or maybe he could have an award ceremony for all the fornits admins and present them with some sort of achievement and then suggest upgrading the database to a newer rev. as a mile marker to the occasion. My family could help set him up with a location.
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I'll let you in on the joke now, Whooter, since you've embarrassed yourself so thoroughly. Take a look.
Original post from March 27, 2005: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
On 2005-03-27 08:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"you know what? Not everyone had a bad experience with DV. You need to take a look at yourself and see why you did.
I admit that there were some things that were a little over the top, but you're talking about a different time, different epidemic and different training.
A TC is not only governed by the founders, but also by law. At the time places like Synanon was founded, there were no governing laws. yes, it was all about brainwashing, brain shocking, or whatever you want to call it, to make a person get off drugs. Ever see the movie " A Clockwork Orange?" Stanley Kubrick had it right. That's what happened back then. There were no laws governing what was supposed to be done.
It's much easier to treat the underlying problem of the epidemic. case in point, when you go into a treatment facility such as the intake facility where you stay for 3 or more weeks, you have detoxed whatever drugs are in your system. DV and other TC's took that a step further. They then treated the underlying problem. Whether it was family problems, peer pressure, etc.
As i stated before, when i was in DV, the main addition was heroin. Older people addicted to heroin for so many years that a TC was there last hope. And it worked.
Today, people are paroled to TC's, people use it as a way to stay out of jail and don't put in the time they need to deal with all the other bullshit that comes with dealing with the problem.
I've seen how DV changed to the times. I've seen how they have to treat the crackhead as opposed to the heroin addict. You can't apply a philosophy of "responsible, Love, & concern or "act as if" to a crackhead who is trying to stay out of jail. Those are a crackhead's manipulation tactics. That's all they know.
So DV and other TC's have had to change their ways of thinking and treatment. And yes, even in terms of terminology, they've had to change.
For example: The DV philosophy, used to be begin "we are" Not I. They changed to back in 86 because of the new wave of abusers coming in, crackheads. What used to be called members are now called residents. Do you see my point, idiot. It's about changing the way you treat the person. You can't treat a crackhead the same way you treat a heroin addict. It doesn't work. Heroin addicts actually have a heart.
Now you want to talk about staff. I recall reading someone saying that the reason old school staff are trying to push out the more educated is because they are afraid. And to a point, that person was correct. They are afraid of seeing DV change in a way that's not about the mission. The mission was and still is solid. But laws change and epidemics change.
Hep C is what DV used to have to deal with heroin addicts. Now they also have to deal AIDS. There are all kinds of laws now that says what you can and can't do with someone who had AIDS.
I'll never forget the first person who was diagnosed with AIDS at DV. His name was Sammy. He became the poster boy ( for lack of a better term) but he changed the way DV thought in terms of treating someone who was ill.
Look, i'm not saying that DV and other TC's are the greatest. You get out what you put in. I did my time old school style and obviously had a better experience than you young bucks did, but take it for what it's worth. Look at this way. People in the social services industry are not in it for the money. They go into it believing that they can make a difference. What they find is that the system is so screwed up that they're just one little insignificant cog on that big wheel of bullshit that is every evolving to more bullshit and they see that after time they can do one of two things, go with the program or get out. That's my advice to you, accept the change, chalk it up to a bad experience and move on. One more thing.
So am i still drinking the Kool-AID? Damn right, because i don't have to deal with the bullshit that you spout about your bad experiences and why you couldn't get with the program. So, are u still smoking crack? and tell me, how long was it before your first relapse?"
Firstly, let me begin by saying that you are awfully presumptuous referring to me as a "young buck" who had a "bad experience" at Daytop.
Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident. I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.
Secondly, having worked there, and not viewing the modality through rose-colored glasses, as you seem to, I know for a fact that Daytop is engaged in many illegal, unethical and immoral activities. This is not my opinion, this is fact.
Thirdly, go tell some of the victims of this place that it's ok what Frank Lanza did to them and that if they "knew him back then," they "would understand." Tell them they should have understanding about Frank's behavior and that it is ok to be abused, belittled, humiliated and put on "the chair" outside, overnight in winter. Or that it's ok (or legal)to suffer through full body searches by untrained "staff" in filthy rooms ("Pick up your balls. Open your ass"). Tell them that it's okay that there's a confessed murderer bunking in the rack next to them because it brings funds to the facility.
Fourthly, if you "spent the best days of (your) life in a treatment center," then you have had no life.
Conclusion: You are still drinking the Kool-Aid after all these years.
Sad, yes. True, indeed.
Same post quoted by Guest the same day (Guest's added his/her comments in parentheses in the quote of my post):
Link to identical text in guest post from the same day as my original post: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=7762&start=30#p91243)
Firstly, let me begin by saying that you are awfully presumptuous referring to me as a "young buck" who had a "bad experience" at Daytop.
(obviously you had a bad experience whether you worked there or was a resident or you would still be working there. I'm going to assume that you left on your own free will either because of money, seeing things you didn't like, etc.. hence my words, bad experience and just to clarify, my term of "young buck" doesn't refer to your age, but at the time in which you were affiliated with DV. If I'm not mistaken you said you worked with DV in 95. I had been affiliated with DV since '82, which meant to ME that i'm closer to the old school style of the way things were done than you were. If that offended you, then i apologize.)
Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident. I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.
(Well, i'm proud that you're educated. I'm not on a soap box because i have never experienced DV or any TC as an employee, but hell, they must be doing something right classically educated employees are still there)
Secondly, having worked there, and not viewing the modality through rose-colored glasses, as you seem to,
( of course i'm going to see some things through rose colored glasses, i lived it, at some point couldn't see outside it, it was all i knew at the time and i can't apologize for that),
I know for a fact that Daytop is engaged in many illegal, unethical and immoral activities. This is not my opinion, this is fact.
(and just out of curiosity, what if anything have you done about it? or did you just let injustices keep happening until you bailed?)
Thirdly, go tell some of the victims of this place that it's ok what Frank Lanza did to them and that if they "knew him back then," (never ever did i say what he did was right. That never came out in any of my writing. Maybe you are just too blinded by your hatred of Frank, DV or TC's in general that you need to read between the lines of something that i didn't say)
they "would understand." Tell them they should have understanding about Frank's behavior and that it is ok to be abused, belittled, humiliated and put on "the chair" outside, overnight in winter. Or that it's ok (or legal)to suffer through full body searches by untrained "staff" in filthy rooms ("Pick up your balls. Open your ass"). Tell them that it's okay that there's a confessed murderer bunking in the rack next to them because it brings funds to the facility.
(I personally hated body searches. I didn't agree with them and there were a few times i refused to do them. My alternative was to not be admitted to the program. Look, being subjected to a full body search is/was never okay by someone who didn't know what they were doing. It was a lesson in humility that happened once. When you got there. If you happened to leave (AWOL) and come back, yes, it was done again. For protection of all. You don't see it that way and probably never will. But you know what, the person getting screened has done worse on the streets using drugs, so WTF)
Fourthly, if you "spent the best days of (your) life in a treatment center," then you have had no life.
When i was in DV, it was rare that they accepted anyone who committed a violent crime, who was court-ordered. The problem is that it's the norm now for a criminal to be court-ordered to a TC if they have drug abuse in their history. Whose fault is that, the TC's).
Look as i said before, TC's are not for everyone and definitely not for today's drug users. Everyone who enters a TC seems to be coddled now, even down to the term "hard core drug user" to "substance abuser", what the hell is that all about. and if crackheads and methamp users aren't the worse users, tell me who is?
Tell me something, are you still in social services industry, or did you give it up because you were fighting a losing battle?
Conclusion: You are still drinking the Kool-Aid after all these years.
(your conclusion is based on nothing, so i won't even comment on that further. other than to say you have the right to your opinion as i have the right to mine. You see it from a clinical standpoint and i see it from someone whose lived through it. Yeah, we are going to see it differently)
Sad, yes. True, indeed.
The text in both posts is identical. A Guest's quote from 2005 is identical to my original post (oops). I suppose now you're going to say the anonymous guest with no ability to edit posts magically became able to edit posts and also "altered" a post from five years ago to match my "altered" post, lols. When are you going to learn, Whooter? I'm a chess player and you're a checker player.
See, Whooter, you are so desperate to "get" me that I easily wound you up like a top, set you off and watched you spin, controlling your actions like I had a joystick in my hand. Watched as you pulled out several identites and augured yourself into the ground, all while blissfully ignorant that the post was not changed at all. All I did in my original post was take out a period (which I reinserted today, for integrity's sake) so that the edit stamp would be there to get you drooling with delight thinking you cornered me on something and knowing full well you'd be too lazy to look one page ahead and see my post was quoted contemporaneously by a guest and we all know guest posts can't be edited.
Yeah, I shined you on for a bit, telling you I edited out my name so you would jump on that, poking fun at your "timeline," shifting the focus, etc. simply so you would go into overdrive with your compulsion, just to watch you make a fool out of yourself again. Please feel free to go back and compare the text of both posts and tell me exactly how mine was "altered." You're too easy, man. I hope you learned something from this exercise. You played yourself again. Keep flailing away. It's funny.
[edited to add url at top of post - don't want Whooter getting all riled up over the edit stamp ; ) ]
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DJ. Seriously. You're at page 25 of a thread that no one is going to read.
Whooter can't help himself. You can. And you're continually replying to what is effectively a badly-written Eliza bot.
Before you make one more reply to any of this faggotry, consider better uses for your time. There's a whole big Fornits Wiki that needs updating, and a shitload of parents who have no idea what they're getting into. If you really need to debunk him to someone dumb enough to listen to this shit, an image has been provided.
Understood, Pile. If I responded to you before it would have spoiled the gag. I think TheWho/Whooter/Mitt Romney/Robert Bruces/ John McCain/ Sarah Palin/Robert Bruce ./etc. has been debunked more thoroughly now than ever before possible. Gotta love watching this dumb sucker play himself out so fully though.
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The reason you are upset is because you couldnt edit that post, DJ.
After you finished working at Daytop you said:
Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident. I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.
[/i]
So you lied to Danny when you told Danny you had an advanced degree when you worked for daytop:
I, on the other hand, was a professional employee, you know, with an advanced college degree and duly licensed to facilitate therapy. I don't have any "guilt" to "cop to," like you do, Danno.
Look DJ, we all know you went back to try to clean up your past. The edit stamp will never go away and the fact that you went back 45 years to clean everything up to meet todays story (unless you take Mitt Romneys advice). All the edits to your posts which referenced you education you needed to update. You posted one that you couldn't update because it wasnt yours and even that shows you lied to Danny. We got you cold buddy, even you last post sinks you.
wiggle wiggle, squirm.
The other posters were right, its the edit stamp that did you in. You should have just told the truth from the beginning.
Just a side thought, if these programs were so bad why did you keep it going as a career? If you were a professional then you would have been bound by law to turn them in the first day you were employed or maybe there was no abuse going on? Interesting discussion maybe.
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Its that dam edit stamp that will not go away. I tried to tell him. He changed his education status from a post 5 years ago right in the middle of an argument. If he had been honest and said : ”Give me a minute I will be right back I have to alter some previous posts” then maybe we would consider giving him his credibility back, "Or I made a mistake 5 years ago about what I said my credentials were let me change that and I will be right back". But he didnt.
He needs to make that go away, it too damaging.
Here it is again:
“Last edited by Dysfunction Junction on 30 Jun 2010, 20:30, edited 1 time in total.”
Maybe an admin can erase it for him?
In politics we call that a loss of confidence... sad to watch. Who was that guy in Connecticut who stated he was in the military and then they found out he wasnt. I told him he needed to get rid of that tape and he didnt listen. Now they play that dam tape everytime he gives a speech. The mans a liar and cant shake the dirt off of him.
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Ha, ha, ha... MSW, spring 1995 while working at HLA (this is known as an "advanced degree," BTW). Daytop, fall 1995-1996. MBA, 2005 (this is a second advanced degree). Yep, that's correct.
Yesterday Whooter said...
In fact he edited his post from 2005 just today in an attempt to cover and alter previous statements.
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He edited details to cover what he is saying today.
Oh, really now? I suppose you can point out those alterations then? Which details? Be specific, please.
Uh, wait a sec...Now you have a new story:
Today Whooter says...
The reason you are upset is because you couldnt edit that post, DJ.
Caught in yet another lie, Whooter gracefully performs what politicians (*wink*) call the "flip-flop" now claiming the opposite of what he flagellated himself with yesterday. "DJ altered his post!" then "DJ is upset because he couldn't alter his post!" Yeah, sure. Makes perfect sense doesn't it? For someone who tries to pass himself off as a smart guy here, you're pretty dumb.
You agree with the "other posters" huh? That's not very honest, Whooter...err...Mitt...uhhh...Sarah...um...Robert...err...John...um...Al...or whoever you are. Man, you are a jackass. You spent all day yesterday creating logins and having them converse with one another about an "altered post"only to be completely played because, as you can see, the post is not in any way altered, which you explicitly admitted today (see quote above). Epic lols.
There goes your carefully crafted, calm, cool, collected image. Whoosh!...right down the toilet with your six interlocuting logins spending all day and night taking turns shooting yourself in the foot. I'd be embarrassed if I were you, too.
Keep it coming. The more you pull out your sock puppets, the worse you look. Maybe you'd be better off changing usernames again and coming back for another "fresh start," eh? :rofl:
Five years and some 10,000 posts here under a dozen or more usernames all boiled down to this thread where you prove what a phony sham artist you are. What a waste of time for you. Better luck next time.
I am a firm believer that those who work day and night solely to discredit others on an open forum usually have many skeletons in their own closet and always slip up as I showed you today.
How does this quote fit for size on you now, Whooter, you self-righteous hypocrite? I think you'll need a new walk-in closet to accommodate that massive pile of skeletons you have spilling out all over the place.
You can't make it up, folks. It would be sad if it weren't so damn funny and happening to such a complete a-hole who did it to himself.
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Ha, ha, ha... MSW, 1995
Well lets take a look at what you said in a post you could not edit from 2005:
Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident. I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.
No mention of MSW…. This was 2005, so you didn’t have any advanced degrees and you lied to Danny. You sunk yourself with that last posting. Should have left well enough alone.
Why don’t we all go off line for awhile and you can edit some more posts to show you had an MSW. Actually with all the changes going on you may be able to find an unedited post which says you had an MSW !!! lol I think we can all see that your degrees come and go depending on the argument over the years.
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Hey, I noticed in your post you didn't mention you're not a child molester. I guess that means you are one, eh? Good luck trying to prove a negative. BTW, when did you stop beating your wife? ;) :rofl:
This is called an "argument form ignorance," a well-known (by the educated, *wink* at ya, Sarah) logical fallacy, (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance) which happens to fit Whooter to a "T" because he is incredibly ignorant and loves to argue from it.
"An argument from ignorance, also known as argumentum ad ignorantiam or appeal to ignorance, is an informal logical fallacy that asserts a proposition to be either true or false merely because it has not been proven or disproven."
Maybe if you weren't such a moron and feeling so incredibly desperate, you might have seen other posts, like this one (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144), also from 2005:
***Now that is impressive,--I always thought of Dysfunction as a computer geek with no particular skills aside from the technical ones: but he spelled "ad hominem" correctly (not "ad hominum" which is wrong and is in the way most people spell it)***
Well, thanks for the, uh, compliment... :roll:
If you did take any amount of time to read what I have written in the past, you would have seen that I am an "IT guy" yes, but also an MSW and MBA.
I worked as a therapist in an RTC (Daytop Village) and an intake counselor at a "TBS" (there really is no such thing, they're "BMW's"-behavior modification warehouses) (Hidden Lake Academy), so I know a bit about how these places operate and exactly what their priorities are.
Now, if you require troubleshooting for your child or your internet connection, please feel free to drop me a line for some down-to-earth advice about either one...
Oopsie!
Next self-flagellation, please... Boy, the wheels have really come off for ya, huh?
Lemme give you some help, Whooter. The first rule, when you're in a hole, is to stop digging. :beat: There's no sense in your carrying on, buddy. You're no longer circling the drain. You've been flushed.
[edited for format...lols]
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Sometimes its best to go back and look at what was originally said. The subject was education and Dysfunction Junction claimed that he had advanced degrees while working in programs. A post from 2005 (5 years ago) the same time frame that Dysfunction Junction was caught editing his posts was found stating he only had Bachelor degrees with an advanced degree in progress.
He cannot alter this one:
Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident. I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.
So clearly when speaking about his education he didn’t have a MSW, but he wanted to add that now so that he covers himself for telling Danny that he had advanced degrees while working.
So it is clear that you lied and altered your other posts. Your education changes with the wind, DJ.
But what is more curious is if you did have advanced degrees wouldn’t you be honor bound to recognize and report all the abuse that was going on? I am not sure which is worse, lying about your education or turning a blind eye to kids being abused...... maybe there was no abuse going on?
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That dam edit stamp is worse than leaving DNA on a masseuse’s dress. I know what I am talking about on this one. You need to get rid of that edit stamp Dysfunction Junction. It wont ever go away until you do that.
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Oh, can you smell the desperation? I love it. Whootie, you were so desperate to post your last two nonsensical items while logging in and out of your various personalities, you missed my last post. Sorry, Charlie (Al, Mitt, TheWho, Whooter, Sarah, John..well, you get it).
Dance for me, Whooter! Dance!
Whooter says:
He cannot alter this one:
Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident. I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.
...and then points out precisely the post he has been linking to and claiming I altered. Oh, how precious it is to see you squirm!
In fact he edited his post from 2005 just today in an attempt to cover and alter previous statements.
Here take a look at the bottom of this post:
DJ's altered post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Which is it? Edited? Not edited? Upset about editing? Upset about not being able to edit? Man, you're careening all over the street like a drunk driver. Sweet. The more you say, the more thoroughly you get pwned. And I keep QFTing you so you can't wiggle out. Tough luck, huh?
The best part is I have all of your idiotic statements thoroughly debunked and now (using your own 180 degree opposite statements, of course) I can just link you back to my previous posts that show you stumbling all over your own offal time and again. Less work that way ; )
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Maybe if you weren't such a moron and feeling so incredibly desperate, you might have seen other posts, like this one (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144), also from 2005:
***Now that is impressive,--I always thought of Dysfunction as a computer geek with no particular skills aside from the technical ones: but he spelled "ad hominem" correctly (not "ad hominum" which is wrong and is in the way most people spell it)***
Well, thanks for the, uh, compliment... :roll:
If you did take any amount of time to read what I have written in the past, you would have seen that I am an "IT guy" yes, but also an MSW and MBA.
I worked as a therapist in an RTC (Daytop Village) and an intake counselor at a "TBS" (there really is no such thing, they're "BMW's"-behavior modification warehouses) (Hidden Lake Academy), so I know a bit about how these places operate and exactly what their priorities are.
Now, if you require troubleshooting for your child or your internet connection, please feel free to drop me a line for some down-to-earth advice about either one...
Hmmm.... Dysfunction Junction if you click your own link (above) and look at the bottom of the post it says:
Last edited by Dysfunction Junction on 30 Jun 2010, 15:15, edited 1 time in total.
ooops. Caught again!!! lol, all your past education posts were edited,we can all see that.
How many posts is that that were edited? I lost count. You just cant help stepping in it, DJ.... classic. wiggle, wiggle, wiggle.
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Ya know, DJ, you have changed your resume so many times to fit the argument of the day I am sure you could find an unedited post which says you had an advanced degree somewhere in the database, although at this point I dont think anything would be taken very seriously because one day you have an MSW and the next day you do not.
You need to remember, boy, lying isnt an underlying problem in politics, but getting caught is. You have been slapped and there is are edit stamps all around you that you need to deal with.
You should consider a career in politics.
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Funny thing...My last name was posted in that post. Thanks to Mitt, I read that and edited it out. Nothing more, nothing less. Just a post (among a few)[/u] left over from a time before I knew posting that information here was a bad idea. Thanks, Mitt, for pointing me at it. Much appreciated.
Like I already told you before, while setting you up for your big crash, I edited a few, just as my post above states, so you would do exactly what you're doing now.
Let me help you, here's another that shows what I have always maintained from August of 2005:
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11648&p=131010&hilit=msw#p131010)
No, Kat, you cannot get a "Master's of Psychiatry." There's no such thing. A psychiatrist, by definition, is a MEDICAL DOCTOR. So, this is an MD, not an MA OR PhD.
Also, there's no such thing as a "Master's in Counseling" either. One can be an MSW, like me, or an MA in Psychology.
This is one IGNORANT BLOWHARD you're dealing with here.
Yeah, that program sounds REALLY legitimate. They go one step further than phony diplomas, they invent new DEGREES. :roll:
Whoopsie! Are you going to pull a rabbit out of your hat, or just keep punishing yourself?
:beat:
I am a firm believer that those who work day and night solely to discredit others on an open forum usually have many skeletons in their own closet and always slip up as I showed you today.[/u]
I think this may be the only thing you have been right about, bonedaddy! ;)
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DJ, you can keep posting old posts all day long but we have already established that you altered your posts to cover your past lies on your education. With the way you change your resume like the wind I am sure you can come up with a post to suit any argument at this point. How about brain surgeon?lol
Look, DJ, the edit stamps will not go away and they link you back to your cover-up. Plain and simple.
Wiggle,wiggle,wiggle.
Sorry buddy, everyone on here knows that you started this. You were the one trolling not me. So take your medicine. Why not try to post something that contributes to the discussions going on here instead of just disrupting the forum with your desperation as is evident in your footer.
You cant cover this up because it is already in the open.
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Funny thing...My last name was posted in that post. Thanks to Mitt, I read that and edited it out. Nothing more, nothing less. Just a post (among a few)[/u] left over from a time before I knew posting that information here was a bad idea. Thanks, Mitt, for pointing me at it. Much appreciated.
Like I already told you before, while setting you up for your big crash, I edited a few, just as my post above states, so you would do exactly what you're doing now.
Let me help you, here's another that shows what I have always maintained from August of 2005:
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11648&p=131010&hilit=msw#p131010)
No, Kat, you cannot get a "Master's of Psychiatry." There's no such thing. A psychiatrist, by definition, is a MEDICAL DOCTOR. So, this is an MD, not an MA OR PhD.
Also, there's no such thing as a "Master's in Counseling" either. One can be an MSW, like me, or an MA in Psychology.
This is one IGNORANT BLOWHARD you're dealing with here.
Yeah, that program sounds REALLY legitimate. They go one step further than phony diplomas, they invent new DEGREES. :roll:
Whoopsie! Are you going to pull a rabbit out of your hat, or just keep punishing yourself?
:beat:
I am a firm believer that those who work day and night solely to discredit others on an open forum usually have many skeletons in their own closet and always slip up as I showed you today.[/u]
I think this may be the only thing you have been right about, bonedaddy! ;)
Lemme guess, it's just a coincidence that I posted this in response to AnonWho last year, right? (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=27732&p=333928&hilit=msw#p333928)
The hits just keep a comin'. Break out some more sockpuppets, Whootie. You need some help! You do realize, don't you, that you're currently "working day and night to discredit others,"? Not only are you halfway retarded, you're the World's Biggest Hypocrite as well. Nice job burying yourself.
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Maybe if you weren't such a moron and feeling so incredibly desperate, you might have seen other posts, like this one (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144), also from 2005:
***Now that is impressive,--I always thought of Dysfunction as a computer geek with no particular skills aside from the technical ones: but he spelled "ad hominem" correctly (not "ad hominum" which is wrong and is in the way most people spell it)***
Well, thanks for the, uh, compliment... :roll:
If you did take any amount of time to read what I have written in the past, you would have seen that I am an "IT guy" yes, but also an MSW and MBA.
I worked as a therapist in an RTC (Daytop Village) and an intake counselor at a "TBS" (there really is no such thing, they're "BMW's"-behavior modification warehouses) (Hidden Lake Academy), so I know a bit about how these places operate and exactly what their priorities are.
Now, if you require troubleshooting for your child or your internet connection, please feel free to drop me a line for some down-to-earth advice about either one...
Hmmm.... Dysfunction Junction if you click your own link (above) and look at the bottom of the post it says:
Last edited by Dysfunction Junction on 30 Jun 2010, 15:15, edited 1 time in total.
ooops. Caught again!!! lol, all your past education posts were edited,we can all see that.
How many posts is that that were edited? I lost count. You just cant help stepping in it, DJ.... classic. wiggle, wiggle, wiggle.
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Ha,Ha,Ha,
Sorry Buddy!
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Yesterday Whooter said...
In fact he edited his post from 2005 just today in an attempt to cover and alter previous statements.
...
He edited details to cover what he is saying today.
Oh, really now? I suppose you can point out those alterations then? Which details? Be specific, please.
Uh, wait a sec...Now you have a new story:
Today Whooter says...
The reason you are upset is because you couldnt edit that post, DJ.
Caught in yet another lie, Whooter gracefully performs what politicians (*wink*) call the "flip-flop" now claiming the opposite of what he flagellated himself with yesterday. "DJ altered his post!" then "DJ is upset because he couldn't alter his post!" Yeah, sure. Makes perfect sense doesn't it? For someone who tries to pass himself off as a smart guy here, you're pretty dumb.
You agree with the "other posters" huh? That's not very honest, Whooter...err...Mitt...uhhh...Sarah...um...Robert...err...John...um...Al...or whoever you are. Man, you are a jackass. You spent all day yesterday creating logins and having them converse with one another about an "altered post"only to be completely played because, as you can see, the post is not in any way altered, which you explicitly admitted today (see quote above). Epic lols.
There goes your carefully crafted, calm, cool, collected image. Whoosh!...right down the toilet with your six interlocuting logins spending all day and night taking turns shooting yourself in the foot. I'd be embarrassed if I were you, too.
Keep it coming. The more you pull out your sock puppets, the worse you look. Maybe you'd be better off changing usernames again and coming back for another "fresh start," eh? :rofl:
Five years and some 10,000 posts here under a dozen or more usernames all boiled down to this thread where you prove what a phony sham artist you are. What a waste of time for you. Better luck next time.
I am a firm believer that those who work day and night solely to discredit others on an open forum usually have many skeletons in their own closet and always slip up as I showed you today.
How does this quote fit for size on you now, Whooter, you self-righteous hypocrite? I think you'll need a new walk-in closet to accommodate that massive pile of skeletons you have spilling out all over the place.
You can't make it up, folks. It would be sad if it weren't so damn funny and happening to such a complete a-hole who did it to himself.
-
Maybe if you weren't such a moron and feeling so incredibly desperate, you might have seen other posts, like this one (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144), also from 2005:
***Now that is impressive,--I always thought of Dysfunction as a computer geek with no particular skills aside from the technical ones: but he spelled "ad hominem" correctly (not "ad hominum" which is wrong and is in the way most people spell it)***
Well, thanks for the, uh, compliment... :roll:
If you did take any amount of time to read what I have written in the past, you would have seen that I am an "IT guy" yes, but also an MSW and MBA.
I worked as a therapist in an RTC (Daytop Village) and an intake counselor at a "TBS" (there really is no such thing, they're "BMW's"-behavior modification warehouses) (Hidden Lake Academy), so I know a bit about how these places operate and exactly what their priorities are.
Now, if you require troubleshooting for your child or your internet connection, please feel free to drop me a line for some down-to-earth advice about either one...
Hmmm.... Dysfunction Junction if you click your own link (above) and look at the bottom of the post it says:
Last edited by Dysfunction Junction on 30 Jun 2010, 15:15, edited 1 time in total.
ooops. Caught again!!! lol, all your past education posts were edited,we can all see that.
How many posts is that that were edited? I lost count. You just cant help stepping in it, DJ.... classic. wiggle, wiggle, wiggle.
...
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Sorry you are so angry over this, DJ, but you had it coming. You have been trolling this forum for months and years as everyone can attest. If you look at your past 50 posts they are all junk and add no value to any discussion.
Ever since your trolling privileges were taken away, via having to log in, your true colors have come out. You cant post anonymously anymore and now that I caught you in yet another lie you had the need to go back and try to erase your past posts.
Going forward I would suggest you try to join the flow of conversation and dedicate your time to something of value as Pile suggested. Your long posts look foolish and desperate.
There is nothing you can really do because the edit stamps on your past posts will always be there.
...
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Funny thing...My last name was posted in that post. Thanks to Mitt, I read that and edited it out. Nothing more, nothing less. Just a post (among a few)[/u] left over from a time before I knew posting that information here was a bad idea. Thanks, Mitt, for pointing me at it. Much appreciated.
Like I already told you before, while setting you up for your big crash, I edited a few, just as my post above states, so you would do exactly what you're doing now.
Let me help you, here's another that shows what I have always maintained from August of 2005:
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=11648&p=131010&hilit=msw#p131010)
No, Kat, you cannot get a "Master's of Psychiatry." There's no such thing. A psychiatrist, by definition, is a MEDICAL DOCTOR. So, this is an MD, not an MA OR PhD.
Also, there's no such thing as a "Master's in Counseling" either. One can be an MSW, like me, or an MA in Psychology.
This is one IGNORANT BLOWHARD you're dealing with here.
Yeah, that program sounds REALLY legitimate. They go one step further than phony diplomas, they invent new DEGREES. :roll:
Whoopsie! Are you going to pull a rabbit out of your hat, or just keep punishing yourself?
:beat:
I am a firm believer that those who work day and night solely to discredit others on an open forum usually have many skeletons in their own closet and always slip up as I showed you today.[/u]
I think this may be the only thing you have been right about, bonedaddy! ;)
Here's one from your own garbage pile of a thread, TheWho: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&p=245855&hilit=+msw#p245859)
Well, four years of psychology classes (double-major in sociology), two years of graduate work in social work, 30 continuing education credits in clinical psychology and ten years of experience working directly with patients.
All that said, there are many people who have these credentials and make poor therapists. Some just lack the intuitive insight necessary to help patients, some are only good at coursework, but not the application thereof and some are just plain too dense to do the job.
So, I think you need to view the degrees as a prerequisite that don't necessarliy lead to a "good" therapist, but must necessarliy be in place to have any chance at success.
All I'm seeing is remarkable consistency over some five years. Keep at it, bonedaddy. The more you get bit, the more you howl. You're going to spend your entire holiday weekend doing this, just like you spent last Christmas doing the same. You're a glutton for punishment.
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Sorry you are so angry over this, DJ, but you had it coming. You have been trolling this forum for months and years as everyone can attest. If you look at your past 50 posts they are all junk and add no value to any discussion.
Ever since your trolling privileges were taken away, via having to log in, your true colors have come out. You cant post anonymously anymore and now that I caught you in yet another lie you had the need to go back and try to erase your past posts.
Going forward I would suggest you try to join the flow of conversation and dedicate your time to something of value as Pile suggested.
There is nothing you can really do because the edit stamps on your past posts will always be there.
...
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Boy, these things just keep popping up all over the place, huh? (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=15667&p=200013&hilit=+msw#p200013)
I think it's important for people to understand that, although HLA and its supporters claim it is "improving," actually the opposite is true.
When I worked there at its inception, it was a hard requirement that all PG counselors had an MA Psy, MSW or higher and all AC's had a BA Psy or BS SW minimum. Of course, the exception was the staff they brought over from CEDU, all of whom were completely uneducated. New hires, however, all had to meet the minimum requirements above.
Now it appears there are no minimum standards at all. PG counselors have unrelated degrees, no degrees, etc. Qualifications for AC's have slipped to "loves sports" or none at all.
If this is "getting better," "improving," or "refining" I'd hate to see what "backsliding" looks like.
The price keeps going up and the quality of staff and the care they provide keeps going down.
Wait a sec...I was a counselor at HLA and they required a master's degree for that job...Hmmm... lols.
-
Maybe if you weren't such a moron and feeling so incredibly desperate, you might have seen other posts, like this one (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144), also from 2005:
***Now that is impressive,--I always thought of Dysfunction as a computer geek with no particular skills aside from the technical ones: but he spelled "ad hominem" correctly (not "ad hominum" which is wrong and is in the way most people spell it)***
Well, thanks for the, uh, compliment... :roll:
If you did take any amount of time to read what I have written in the past, you would have seen that I am an "IT guy" yes, but also an MSW and MBA.
I worked as a therapist in an RTC (Daytop Village) and an intake counselor at a "TBS" (there really is no such thing, they're "BMW's"-behavior modification warehouses) (Hidden Lake Academy), so I know a bit about how these places operate and exactly what their priorities are.
Now, if you require troubleshooting for your child or your internet connection, please feel free to drop me a line for some down-to-earth advice about either one...
Hmmm.... Dysfunction Junction if you click your own link (above) and look at the bottom of the post it says:
Last edited by Dysfunction Junction on 30 Jun 2010, 15:15, edited 1 time in total.
ooops. Caught again!!! lol, all your past education posts were edited,we can all see that.
How many posts is that that were edited? I lost count. You just cant help stepping in it, DJ.... classic. wiggle, wiggle, wiggle.
...
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Whoopsie! Another one. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=13598&p=167828&hilit=msw#p167828)
On 2006-01-24 17:38:00, HLA Truth wrote:
"DJ-
What are your clinical qualifications? I am not saying you don't have any. You have just stated that you have qualifications and others do not. What are yours?"
I am an MSW with 7 years of clinical experience.
What is your clinical background? How are you qualified to discuss the program clinically?
Example after example proving my point, yet all you can do is post duplicates over and over. Didn't you get banned for that at one time? :nods: You're what's called a "sore loser." :rofl:
In the immortal words of Wyatt Earp, "A man don't need to go heeled to get the bulge on a dub like you."
-
Wait a sec...I was a counselor at HLA and they required a master's degree for that job...Hmmm... lols.
So now you are saying programs require master level employees? This what I mean about you changing your tune depending on the argument. All of a sudden programs have these great hiring practices with degreed employees. lol
...
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You can't read too good, huh? From the same post:
Now it appears there are no minimum standards at all. PG counselors have unrelated degrees, no degrees, etc. Qualifications for AC's have slipped to "loves sports" or none at all.
Whoops!
And you have conceeded the point as well. Lovely. :cheers:
You're going to miss the fireworks with your (imaginary) kids. :beat:
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Maybe if you weren't such a moron and feeling so incredibly desperate, you might have seen other posts, like this one (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144), also from 2005:
***Now that is impressive,--I always thought of Dysfunction as a computer geek with no particular skills aside from the technical ones: but he spelled "ad hominem" correctly (not "ad hominum" which is wrong and is in the way most people spell it)***
Well, thanks for the, uh, compliment... :roll:
If you did take any amount of time to read what I have written in the past, you would have seen that I am an "IT guy" yes, but also an MSW and MBA.
I worked as a therapist in an RTC (Daytop Village) and an intake counselor at a "TBS" (there really is no such thing, they're "BMW's"-behavior modification warehouses) (Hidden Lake Academy), so I know a bit about how these places operate and exactly what their priorities are.
Now, if you require troubleshooting for your child or your internet connection, please feel free to drop me a line for some down-to-earth advice about either one...
Hmmm.... Dysfunction Junction if you click your own link (above) and look at the bottom of the post it says:
Last edited by Dysfunction Junction on 30 Jun 2010, 15:15, edited 1 time in total.
ooops. Caught again!!! lol, all your past education posts were edited,we can all see that.
How many posts is that that were edited? I lost count. You just cant help stepping in it, DJ.... classic. wiggle, wiggle, wiggle.
...
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...all your past education posts were edited,we can all see that.
Well, except for the last ten or so over a period of five years that I just linked you to. You do understand that folks here are, for the most part, literate, and understand the language you are impaling yourself with, don't you? :suicide:
Wow, there are even more examples of stunning consistency than Whooter ever imagined, I guess. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=10963&p=119765&hilit=+masters+social+work#p119765) Including this gem from...wait for it...2005:
On 2005-07-31 07:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Now THAT is a fine example of maturity and helpful input, Dysfunction Junction. I guess you didn't stick with your therapy!
The parents on strugglingteens have not "given up" on their kids. To the contrary, they are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice- sending their child away from home for help.
You people over here will never "get it" and are accomplishing nothing. I don't think you understand how truly in the minority you are, and how very few abuses really have occurred. Hell, the Catholic church has a much bigger problem than the teen help industry. MOST of these programs are run by people who are properly trained and educated and have started the programs because they sincerely want to help these families and teens.
Parents- if you have questions on specific programs, post on strugglingteens and you will get honest and thorough responses- from people who actually can construct a sentence."
What makes you think I was ever IN therapy? I haven't been, and most likely will not be.
The fact of the matter is that I am a highly educated professional with masters degrees in both Social Work and Business Administration. I worked at two BM warehouses and know first-hand what goes on there. You do not, and it's abundantly clear.
I was simply poking fun at your factually bereft pontification that the people who post on this site are "militaristic." That staement is farcical and laughable, as most everyone on this site would be considered "liberal" by conventional standards and are opposed to violence of any sort, especially against children, which you clearly espouse by publicly advocating these abusive "programs."
Now, to address your "ultimate sacrifice," as you so pompously expressed it:
Giving your children away to strangers to be "fixed" is the polar-opposite of the "ultimate sacrifice."
I would submit that it is also the height of hypocrisy. Sending your child away is a tacit admission of parental failure on your part and a "cop out" to avoid the reality of your failed raising your own offspring.
Tell the parents of soldiers who have died in the line of duty in Iraq that their children didn't make the ultimate sacrifice by fighting and dying for your freedom, but rather YOU did by completely abdicating your parental mandate and handing over your kid to a behavior modification warehouse for reprogramming because you simply weren't willing to do what was necessary to nurture them into emotional growth and stability.
So get down off your soapbox, shut your trap and think before you deign to lecture others about a subject on which you are an abject failure, as you have become a self-revealed moron of monolithic proportion.
By the way, whether or not your kids tell you anything about their lives (which I doubt with sincerity), they do completely understand exactly what a failure you are for quitting on them when they needed you most.
Good day.
Keep swinging with the duplicate posts, Whooter. It may start working for you. :beat: :rofl: :wall:
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Sorry you are so angry over this, DJ, but you had it coming. You have been trolling this forum for months and years as everyone can attest. If you look at your past 50 posts they are all junk and add no value to any discussion.
Ever since your trolling privileges were taken away, via having to log in, your true colors have come out. You cant post anonymously anymore and now that I caught you in yet another lie you had the need to go back and try to erase your past posts.
Going forward I would suggest you try to join the flow of conversation and dedicate your time to something of value as Pile suggested. Your long posts look foolish and desperate.
There is nothing you can really do because the edit stamps on your past posts will always be there.
...
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First this:
The reason you are upset is because you couldnt edit that post, DJ.
Then this:
...all your past education posts were edited,we can all see that.
Curious, eh? :flip: :notworthy:
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Maybe if you weren't such a moron and feeling so incredibly desperate, you might have seen other posts, like this one (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144), also from 2005:
***Now that is impressive,--I always thought of Dysfunction as a computer geek with no particular skills aside from the technical ones: but he spelled "ad hominem" correctly (not "ad hominum" which is wrong and is in the way most people spell it)***
Well, thanks for the, uh, compliment... :roll:
If you did take any amount of time to read what I have written in the past, you would have seen that I am an "IT guy" yes, but also an MSW and MBA.
I worked as a therapist in an RTC (Daytop Village) and an intake counselor at a "TBS" (there really is no such thing, they're "BMW's"-behavior modification warehouses) (Hidden Lake Academy), so I know a bit about how these places operate and exactly what their priorities are.
Now, if you require troubleshooting for your child or your internet connection, please feel free to drop me a line for some down-to-earth advice about either one...
Hmmm.... Dysfunction Junction if you click your own link (above) and look at the bottom of the post it says:
Last edited by Dysfunction Junction on 30 Jun 2010, 15:15, edited 1 time in total.
ooops. Caught again!!! lol, all your past education posts were edited,we can all see that.
How many posts is that that were edited? I lost count. You just cant help stepping in it, DJ.... classic. wiggle, wiggle, wiggle.
...
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**Edited to REMOVE duplicate post *wink***
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Ya know, I thought it couldn't get any better this morning, but SHAZAM!, you have come unglued. This is like watching a train wreck in slo-mo...
Yesterday Whooter said...
In fact he edited his post from 2005 just today in an attempt to cover and alter previous statements.
...
He edited details to cover what he is saying today.
I replied:
Oh, really now? I suppose you can point out those alterations then? Which details? Be specific, please.
Uh, wait a sec...Now you have a new story:
Today Whooter says...
The reason you are upset is because you couldnt edit that post, DJ.
Flip... :flip: ...Flop... :flip:
How many posts is that that were edited? I lost count.
You can't count past two? Wow, you're even more feeble-minded than I originally suspected!
10...9...8...seconds until Whooter floods with another duplicate...7...6...5.... You're going to get banned again if you don't come up with some new material! :jamin: :soapbox:
It has been a pleasure to slash and burn your little "image" here, Whootie, but unlike you, I have an actual child who needs to see her first fireworks, so just post your dupes and I'll get back to you. :rofl:
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Sorry you are so angry over this, DJ, but you had it coming. You have been trolling this forum for months and years as everyone can attest. If you look at your past 50 posts they are all junk and add no value to any discussion.
Ever since your trolling privileges were taken away, via having to log in, your true colors have come out. You cant post anonymously anymore and now that I caught you in yet another lie you had the need to go back and try to erase your past posts.
Going forward I would suggest you try to join the flow of conversation and dedicate your time to something of value as Pile suggested. Your long posts look foolish and desperate.
There is nothing you can really do because the edit stamps on your past posts will always be there.
...
-
Maybe if you weren't such a moron and feeling so incredibly desperate, you might have seen other posts, like this one (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144), also from 2005:
***Now that is impressive,--I always thought of Dysfunction as a computer geek with no particular skills aside from the technical ones: but he spelled "ad hominem" correctly (not "ad hominum" which is wrong and is in the way most people spell it)***
Well, thanks for the, uh, compliment... :roll:
If you did take any amount of time to read what I have written in the past, you would have seen that I am an "IT guy" yes, but also an MSW and MBA.
I worked as a therapist in an RTC (Daytop Village) and an intake counselor at a "TBS" (there really is no such thing, they're "BMW's"-behavior modification warehouses) (Hidden Lake Academy), so I know a bit about how these places operate and exactly what their priorities are.
Now, if you require troubleshooting for your child or your internet connection, please feel free to drop me a line for some down-to-earth advice about either one...
Hmmm.... Dysfunction Junction if you click your own link (above) and look at the bottom of the post it says:
Last edited by Dysfunction Junction on 30 Jun 2010, 15:15, edited 1 time in total.
ooops. Caught again!!! lol, all your past education posts were edited,we can all see that.
How many posts is that that were edited? I lost count. You just cant help stepping in it, DJ.... classic. wiggle, wiggle, wiggle.
...
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Cause and effect. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&start=60#p368440) Outstanding.
Whooter, I really hate to get all serious business in my first post, but it seems that you're in this topic to make a scene, and after having done some research it seems this is how you roll (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976), so I guess :feedtrolls:
Vic Zelot linked directly to this wonderful, juicy, unavoidable, inescapable tidbit:
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as Tipping
With the link coming straight from my signature, no less. It makes spotting this troll easy and convenient for all. ;)
This new poster took his time, in his very first post, rightfully to call Whooter out as a troll. I really enjoy educating the public about sheisters, hucksters and snake oil salesmen like Whooter. It's gratifying to know he isn't hoodwinking anyone here anymore.
What's left of Whooter is really like a lower organism with a primitive nerve net and ganglion where a "brain" would exist in a normal person - even with it's head cut off, arms cut off, legs cut off and disemboweled, it still twitches repetitively although it's technically dead. :suicide: :rofl:
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Its obvious that this has upset you and have to say Sorry you are so angry over this, DJ, but you did have it coming to you. You have been trolling this forum for months and years as everyone can attest. If you look at your past 50 posts they are all junk and add no value to any discussion.
Ever since your trolling privileges were taken away, via having to log in, your true colors have come out. You cant post anonymously anymore and now that I caught you in yet another lie you had the need to go back and try to erase your past posts.
Going forward I would suggest you try to join the flow of conversation and dedicate your time to something of value as Pile suggested. Your long posts look foolish and desperate. Your posting on Morgans behalf shows that you are taking a positive step and I think you will see that contributing will help you get over this.
There is nothing you can really do because the edit stamps on your past posts will always be there.
...
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Dance, puppet, dance! Remember, I control your actions now. I exploit your compulsions and make you act in a way totally irreconcilable with what you try to make people here believe about yourself.
Angry? Really? I'm absolutely giddy watching you self-immolate and run around on fire. I mean, I do love watching Ursus eat your lunch on a daily basis (among others) but watching you do yourself in? That's priceless.
Your behavior here has sunk you and five years of your life, posting like a slave, is utterly wasted. Let's face it, new users are calling you out on their first posts here now. Indeed, that's results-driven feedback. You try to chime in on any topic and quickly get flushed by even the newest posters, complete with links to your posts. You might want to try out some new identity like you did last time. This one's cooked.
Keep twitchin' lizard brain. :cheers: :feedtrolls:
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Its obvious that this has upset you and have to say Sorry you are so angry over this, DJ, but you did have it coming to you. You have been trolling this forum for months and years as everyone can attest. If you look at your past 50 posts they are all junk and add no value to any discussion.
Ever since your trolling privileges were taken away, via having to log in, your true colors have come out. You cant post anonymously anymore and now that I caught you in yet another lie you had the need to go back and try to erase your past posts.
Going forward I would suggest you try to join the flow of conversation and dedicate your time to something of value as Pile suggested. Your long posts look foolish and desperate. Your posting on Morgans behalf shows that you are taking a positive step and I think you will see that contributing will help you get over this.
There is nothing you can really do because the edit stamps on your past posts will always be there.
lol
...
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Cause and effect. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&start=60#p368440) Outstanding.
Whooter, I really hate to get all serious business in my first post, but it seems that you're in this topic to make a scene, and after having done some research it seems this is how you roll (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976), so I guess :feedtrolls:
Vic Zelot linked directly to this wonderful, juicy, unavoidable, inescapable tidbit:
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as Tipping
With the link coming straight from my signature, no less. It makes spotting this troll easy and convenient for all. ;)
This new poster took his time, in his very first post, rightfully to call Whooter out as a troll. I really enjoy educating the public about sheisters, hucksters and snake oil salesmen like Whooter. It's gratifying to know he isn't hoodwinking anyone here anymore.
What's left of Whooter is really like a lower organism with a primitive nerve net and ganglion where a "brain" would exist in a normal person - even with it's head cut off, arms cut off, legs cut off and disemboweled, it still twitches repetitively although it's technically dead. :suicide: :rofl:
Proof is in the puddin'. :rofl: :nods: Whooter/TheWho/Sarah Palin/Al Gore/SUCK IT/John McCain/Mitt Romney/Robert Bruces/etc, etc, etc credibility is so shot that people catch on on their very first visit no less. That was the desired outcome and so has it been achieved fully.
:cheers:
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Edit stamp! It wont go away no matter how much you want to change the subject!! lol
wiggle, wiggle squirm, squirm
...
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Well, you didn't say over and over you went to Chicago. In fact, you denied it vehemently and demands "proof" that you did. You demanded I link a Chicago IP address to TheWho's postings from that period, but why should I? You forgot you lied about this and had already posted in January 2007 that you went to Chicago the month before. Why did you lie about your trip to Chicago?
{link to source} TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/posting.php?mode=quote&f=9&p=245433)
You also were denying you had an extensive arrest record, apparently forgetting you had already admitted to being "arrested several times in Boston" and once in Michigan. Why did you lie about your criminal past?
{link to source}TheWho admitting to his arrest record for "multiple arrests" (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23338&p=284895&hilit=+arrest#p284895)
You also deny you are John Reuben, but you PMed me with your email address when you thought I was interested in sending my kid to ASR. And that email address is one and the same with the Administrator email address for savingteens.org. So you were caught in yet another lie. Why did you lie about your identity?
You may have emailed John Reuben but where is your proof that you emailed me? See what I am saying?
No, you PMed me with the email address later to be proven to be John Reuben's
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent
Personally I think ASR is a good program. It worked for our family. My kid was there
when Dave Marcus wrote his book based on the kids in the program and they got back on
track and matured. I have been to the campus many times and think if it's a good fit
for your son that you shouldn't worry about it. Don't trust what you read on this site
because the members here are all anti-program and have an agenda to discredit all
programs. If you want to contact me outside fornits I can help you get in contact with
someone who can help you make the right decision. You can email me at
[email protected]. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you.
You also say you are just a parent with no ties to the TTI industry, but yet you attended a meeting in Chicago with a group of other TTI players in order to try to make statistical proof that programs are safe and effective and bragged about your meeting here while logged in with the username "TheWho." Later you denied you are part of the industry and that you went to Chicago at all which are both proven lies. Why did you lie about your role in the TTI?
{link to source} What players? where was the meeting and when was it held? Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first.
You said it was a meeting in December 2006 at the Hyatt in Chicago of your statistical group to asses the safety of TBS's.You're the one who said it. Were you lying then or now?
The readers here deserve an explanation of the above proven lies. Why won't you explain the lies?
I agree but first you need to prove your posts.
You need proof, Bruce, you havent proved anything yet. We need a smoking gun and all we see are "your" words. Many who might have believed thewho was this Reuben guy are now starting to doubt it. You havent shown anything yet. Start filling in the Citations and see how you make out. Then we can go from there.
And, I'm obviously not "Bruce." So you can stop trying to pin this on him. You're the liar here. You need to account for your lies.
'
I believe the Guest above created the subject of this thread. I have just fleshed it out a bit, but not changed it. I believe you actually tried to change it several times, but we keep coming back to the thread topic anyway.
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Let's not forget the ultra-hypocrite/liar angle either. Here's a gem from a moderator showing TheWho went back and deleted his entire family story (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21273&p=256047&hilit=+thewho+edited+daughter#p256047) when it was linked to his account to remove the nasty bits about how he admitted his daughter estranged herself from him and didn't speak to him for two years after ASR while getting fucked up on drugs and alcohol. That wouldn't fit in a tidy package labeled "My daughter did well after ASR" so he simply disappeared it and was busted by the moderator. Then, true to form, he accused her of "altering" his posts, an obvious blatant lie, as described by the guest below. :suicide:
This is the last refuge for someone caught blatantly lying so many times that he has no other excuse but "They altered my posts!" What a LOSER.
:rofl:
That's about the size of it. He hasn't a leg to stand on in an honest debate, so he resorts to attacks and false allegations. I could provide links to many posts that I would've loved to dump. They're still there.
The only one 'editing' Who's posts is Who. Remember the one in which he stated his daughter split and didn't talk to him for 2 years. He apparently forgot he posted that back when he was anon- before he picked a user name. When I linked to it, he promptly deleted it.
Wah, wah, wah. :cry2:
This has been Whooter's modus operandi for many, many years. :beat: lols.
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Dance, puppet, dance! Remember, I control your actions now. I exploit your compulsions and make you act in a way totally irreconcilable with what you try to make people here believe about yourself.
Angry? Really? I'm absolutely giddy watching you self-immolate and run around on fire. I mean, I do love watching Ursus eat your lunch on a daily basis (among others) but watching you do yourself in? That's priceless.
Your behavior here has sunk you and five years of your life, posting like a slave, is utterly wasted. Let's face it, new users are calling you out on their first posts here now. Indeed, that's results-driven feedback. You try to chime in on any topic and quickly get flushed by even the newest posters, complete with links to your posts. You might want to try out some new identity like you did last time. This one's cooked.
Keep twitchin' lizard brain. :cheers: :feedtrolls:
This poster is frothing at the mouth, a control freak filled with hatred. it's no surprise to me this person is an ex staff. Lay off Whooter you are taking this way too seriously and getting angry, go chill out for a while.
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Let's not forget the ultra-hypocrite/liar angle either. Here's a gem from a moderator showing TheWho went back and deleted his entire family story (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=21273&p=256047&hilit=+thewho+edited+daughter#p256047) when it was linked to his account to remove the nasty bits about how he admitted his daughter estranged herself from him and didn't speak to him for two years after ASR while getting fucked up on drugs and alcohol. That wouldn't fit in a tidy package labeled "My daughter did well after ASR" so he simply disappeared it and was busted by the moderator. Then, true to form, he accused her of "altering" his posts, an obvious blatant lie, as described by the guest below. :suicide:
This is the last refuge for someone caught blatantly lying so many times that he has no other excuse but "They altered my posts!" What a LOSER.
:rofl:
That's about the size of it. He hasn't a leg to stand on in an honest debate, so he resorts to attacks and false allegations. I could provide links to many posts that I would've loved to dump. They're still there.
The only one 'editing' Who's posts is Who. Remember the one in which he stated his daughter split and didn't talk to him for 2 years. He apparently forgot he posted that back when he was anon- before he picked a user name. When I linked to it, he promptly deleted it.
Wah, wah, wah. :cry2:
This has been Whooter's modus operandi for many, many years. :beat: lols.
You spend so much time and effort discrediting a poster you also claim nobody takes seriously, so what is the purpose if you really believe that? Surely you have better things to do on a holiday weekend than discredit someone in a thread nobody will read. Or maybe this is a pressure valve of hatred left over from your personal life, in that case thank Whooter. :timeout:
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Dude, seriously? You're posting in other threads trying to appear respectful, while you have usernames of "Queef" and "SUCK IT" over here? I'm telling you, man, you are really sick in the head. You have come completely unglued.
Just look at yourself. You're so incredibly phony and everyone here knows it. Now you're just vomiting all over the place.
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QFT. After denying for many years that he has multiple logins, Whooter admits it. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&start=120#p368558)
I can tell you that of the list of usernames that you laid out above, some are mine...
"Some," as in "several." The truth is, it's actualy all of them, but, whatever, the point is made. Multiple usernames has now been admitted to by Whooter. Since he's pretending to be a dozen or more people here, why should anyone believe anything he says? Quite literally, everything about him is phony.
The aim is to highlight the dishonest nature of this person. Pretending to be multiple people so you can appear to have strength in numbers and use proxies to say the things you don't want to be caught saying while you are proven to be just one loser sitting at the keyboard, all day and all night, for five looong years is the epitome of dishonesty.
Anyway...Just for the record, I have, and have had, one and only one login/username for my entire time on Fornits.
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Moved from another thread (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&p=368561#p368561) at Whooter's request (Which, as usual, he will not abide by, but, what the heck. Here it is anyway.):
Lols. I have had one username and one username only for my entire time posting here. You have my permission to verify with the site's admin. Go ahead and have them link up any anonymous posts as well. You have my permission. Please ask them to post the results of your inquiry. We'll all be awaiting the big event with bated breath.
I'm going to go ahead and do a little prognosticating now, too. My predicttion? You'll do neither of the above and just continue claiming I have multiple logins and you'll keep doing it right here in this thread rather than doing what you requested and move it to another thread.
In the meantime, I moved our discussion over here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&p=368559#p368559) where it belongs to honor your request.
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Anyway...Just for the record, I have, and have had, one and only one login/username for my entire time on Fornits.
The difference is I have had my anon posts strung together and tied to my user name and the names I have posted under listed out onto the forum. For some reason you are afraid to have this done. We just have to go with your word which I have proven in the past that you fabricate stories and timelines to meet the present discussion.
It not a big deal DJ, most people dont revel their user name(s) or have had their anon post strung together. I did it to show that I have nothing to hide and stand behind my posts. Why you dont want to have it done is your own business, I dont really care either way.
lol
...
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Whooter/TheWho/Sarah Palin/Al Gore/SUCK IT/John McCain/Mitt Romney/Robert Bruces/etc, etc, etc
I'm not Whooter and never claimed to be. So that means you must have concluded this yourself based on non existent evidence, obviously, because it's not true. So that must mean you are paranoid and delusional, or just plain retarded. Perhaps a combination of both, we will have to let the audience decide which is true. If you are really interested in who I am and why I post here, I'll tell you. I am a so called "survivor", meaning I am one of the tens or possibly hundreds of thousands of people who were sent to an adolescent treatment center when I was younger. I was sent to a facility that is described on this forum as abusive, and is commonly discussed. I came here to this forum with an interest in the discussion, but what I quickly found was a cult of extremists only interested in producing and disseminating anti treatment propaganda.
To my surprise, the only person who is willing to have an open minded conversation is the one poster who the extremists label as evil, and do their best to shut down at every chance. Including bullying and threats in real life, that poster is of course Whooter. Just because I have similar views to Whooter doesn't mean I am actually Whooter. I believe that free market adolescent treatment industry is a good thing overall, and while there might be isolated problems they are usually dealt with and prevented from becoming a regular problem. I know that very few people post here compared to the amount of kids who went through treatment, a ridiculously low number of people actually. The people I am still in contact to from treatment laugh at this forum and the people here. I was not abused and I never saw abuse, although if I wanted to embellish and lie I could present a story that would appear to make it a negative experience, and this is what the posters here do. They have an agenda and choose to omit details to further their anti treatment agenda. The extremists here don't just stop at adolescent treatment centers, they want to shut down alcoholics anonymous as well. This is a joke and most sane people realize this immediately.
Most of the extremists on fornits say they found this forum decades after they were in treatment, and somehow only after communing with the cult of extremists on fornits they finally have a realization that they were abused, I find that argument to be one hundred percent bullshit. I was pissed off during it and when I got out, because being in treatment when you are a rebellious and troubled teenager is not fun. I was never brainwashed and didn't even graduate because I didn't try that hard. But after some years of observing the ridiculous arguments on fornits, and maturing and thinking over this issue I have realized my parents made the right decision and they were right for seeking outside help.
Whooter is not an extremist. He openly states that some kids have negative experiences but most have positive experiences. This is the truth, and I know it's the truth. I even argued with Whooter at one time, until I finally realized he was right and I was wrong. I was trying to turn a complicated situation into a black and white, good vs evil argument when it's really more complicated than that. The simplistic extremist argument here is held up with innuendo, mistruths, ommission and the most effective is generalizing isolated incidents and claiming they happen to every teen in treatment. Over time I realized Whooter was right and I could no longer honestly make the anti treatment argument I was attempting to make. The hard truth is my parents were completely right to seek help even if I didn't recognize I needed it at the time. It sounds cliche in this industry but I really would have been in jail, dead or insane had I not been forced into treatment.
I also struggled with substance abuse and have had a very positive experience with AA and related programs as an adult, the lies about AA and the baseless arguments and lies perpetuated against this voluntary association of adults is ridiculous and further discredits the extremism that is prevalent on this forum. Fornits really has become a den of extremists, so to this core group I can see why Whooter appears so evil. In reality Whooter is completely normal, his views 100% mainstream. Eventually he will get bored and stop posting here, and the cult can take over and create posts that simply reinforce their beliefs, but until then I hope Whooter continues to present his common sense advice to parents here and answers the extremists arguments with rational arguments that quickly point out the flaws in the extremist argument. He is quite good at this, but to be honest it's not that difficult to do this. What is difficult is putting up the abuse he goes through to simply post this common sense, he has been threatened with real life consequences for posting here, I find that extremely distasteful.
I personally find the extremism here and the people who post it to be even more aggressive and controlling than the people they claim to b fighting against. Even though I disagree with Whooter on some topics, I'd much rather sit down and have a beer with him than any other person on this forum because he's willing to be honest about this industry, instead of having an akward conversation with an extremists, trying not to say the wrong thing and possibly slip up and, heaven forbid, actually say that programs have a positive effect in one way or another.
So you can continue to spend your holiday weekend fighting with Whooter if you want, nobody is going to stop you. But it's not going to help any teen being "abused" in a program, and the truth is the only people who will read it and understand it is people already involved in fornits debate. This stuff is inside baseball, and nobody cares about it other than the people who are involved in the argument. If I were you I'd take a long look at what compels you to become so emotionally involved with an anonymous internet poster you know nothing about. Lacking real information about your opponent, you simply make up conspiracy theories about who they are and why the post here. I am here to tell you that your conspiracy theory is flawed, I am not Whooter and your assumption that I am whooter says a lot about the reality shifting than extremists must engage in to keep their delusions afloat. Have a good holiday< i think that's enough from me for now.
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Whooter/TheWho/Sarah Palin/Al Gore/SUCK IT/John McCain/Mitt Romney/Robert Bruces/etc, etc, etc
I'm not Whooter and never claimed to be. So that means you must have concluded this yourself based on non existent evidence, obviously, because it's not true. So that must mean you are paranoid and delusional, or just plain retarded. Perhaps a combination of both, we will have to let the audience decide which is true. If you are really interested in who I am and why I post here, I'll tell you. I am a so called "survivor", meaning I am one of the tens or possibly hundreds of thousands of people who were sent to an adolescent treatment center when I was younger. I was sent to a facility that is described on this forum as abusive, and is commonly discussed. I came here to this forum with an interest in the discussion, but what I quickly found was a cult of extremists only interested in producing and disseminating anti treatment propaganda.
To my surprise, the only person who is willing to have an open minded conversation is the one poster who the extremists label as evil, and do their best to shut down at every chance. Including bullying and threats in real life, that poster is of course Whooter. Just because I have similar views to Whooter doesn't mean I am actually Whooter. I believe that free market adolescent treatment industry is a good thing overall, and while there might be isolated problems they are usually dealt with and prevented from becoming a regular problem. I know that very few people post here compared to the amount of kids who went through treatment, a ridiculously low number of people actually. The people I am still in contact to from treatment laugh at this forum and the people here. I was not abused and I never saw abuse, although if I wanted to embellish and lie I could present a story that would appear to make it a negative experience, and this is what the posters here do. They have an agenda and choose to omit details to further their anti treatment agenda. The extremists here don't just stop at adolescent treatment centers, they want to shut down alcoholics anonymous as well. This is a joke and most sane people realize this immediately.
Most of the extremists on fornits say they found this forum decades after they were in treatment, and somehow only after communing with the cult of extremists on fornits they finally have a realization that they were abused, I find that argument to be one hundred percent bullshit. I was pissed off during it and when I got out, because being in treatment when you are a rebellious and troubled teenager is not fun. I was never brainwashed and didn't even graduate because I didn't try that hard. But after some years of observing the ridiculous arguments on fornits, and maturing and thinking over this issue I have realized my parents made the right decision and they were right for seeking outside help.
Whooter is not an extremist. He openly states that some kids have negative experiences but most have positive experiences. This is the truth, and I know it's the truth. I even argued with Whooter at one time, until I finally realized he was right and I was wrong. I was trying to turn a complicated situation into a black and white, good vs evil argument when it's really more complicated than that. The simplistic extremist argument here is held up with innuendo, mistruths, ommission and the most effective is generalizing isolated incidents and claiming they happen to every teen in treatment. Over time I realized Whooter was right and I could no longer honestly make the anti treatment argument I was attempting to make. The hard truth is my parents were completely right to seek help even if I didn't recognize I needed it at the time. It sounds cliche in this industry but I really would have been in jail, dead or insane had I not been forced into treatment.
I also struggled with substance abuse and have had a very positive experience with AA and related programs as an adult, the lies about AA and the baseless arguments and lies perpetuated against this voluntary association of adults is ridiculous and further discredits the extremism that is prevalent on this forum. Fornits really has become a den of extremists, so to this core group I can see why Whooter appears so evil. In reality Whooter is completely normal, his views 100% mainstream. Eventually he will get bored and stop posting here, and the cult can take over and create posts that simply reinforce their beliefs, but until then I hope Whooter continues to present his common sense advice to parents here and answers the extremists arguments with rational arguments that quickly point out the flaws in the extremist argument. He is quite good at this, but to be honest it's not that difficult to do this. What is difficult is putting up the abuse he goes through to simply post this common sense, he has been threatened with real life consequences for posting here, I find that extremely distasteful.
I personally find the extremism here and the people who post it to be even more aggressive and controlling than the people they claim to b fighting against. Even though I disagree with Whooter on some topics, I'd much rather sit down and have a beer with him than any other person on this forum because he's willing to be honest about this industry, instead of having an akward conversation with an extremists, trying not to say the wrong thing and possibly slip up and, heaven forbid, actually say that programs have a positive effect in one way or another.
So you can continue to spend your holiday weekend fighting with Whooter if you want, nobody is going to stop you. But it's not going to help any teen being "abused" in a program, and the truth is the only people who will read it and understand it is people already involved in fornits debate. This stuff is inside baseball, and nobody cares about it other than the people who are involved in the argument. If I were you I'd take a long look at what compels you to become so emotionally involved with an anonymous internet poster you know nothing about. Lacking real information about your opponent, you simply make up conspiracy theories about who they are and why the post here. I am here to tell you that your conspiracy theory is flawed, I am not Whooter and your assumption that I am whooter says a lot about the reality shifting than extremists must engage in to keep their delusions afloat. Have a good holiday< i think that's enough from me for now.
Amen.......
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I am a so called "survivor", meaning I am one of the tens or possibly hundreds of thousands of people who were sent to an adolescent treatment center when I was younger. I was sent to a facility that is described on this forum as abusive, and is commonly discussed. I came here to this forum with an interest in the discussion, but what I quickly found was a cult of extremists only interested in producing and disseminating anti treatment propaganda.
Riiiiighttt. And which program would that be? What you aver is simply not all that believable. You have never ventured to describe any program on fornits in anything other than the most general and non-specific terms. Even program parents and EdCons are able to be more specific than you.
While some posters might choose to be vague when first dealing with traumatic events and issues stemming from their time in program, that doesn't appear to be the case for you. You claim not to have been abused.
The simplistic extremist argument here is held up with innuendo, mistruths, ommission and the most effective is generalizing isolated incidents and claiming they happen to every teen in treatment.
Link, or it never happened. To my knowledge, nobody here has ever ventured that all kids get subjected to all the abuses this industry dishes out. If that were the case, there would be claims of a 100% mortality rate. Lols. Seems to me that you are the one holding up "simplistic extremist arguments with innuendo," untruths, omissions and whitewashing generalizations. :D
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Another option is to ask fornits admins to list out our user names (and string together past anon posts)and post them publicly. I have done this upon request a few times before and am willing to do it again, if it interests you (I have nothing to hide).
Why, yes, it does interest me. Please have it done right away, as you just offered to do. I'll be glad to see the results straight away.
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I am a so called "survivor", meaning I am one of the tens or possibly hundreds of thousands of people who were sent to an adolescent treatment center when I was younger. I was sent to a facility that is described on this forum as abusive, and is commonly discussed. I came here to this forum with an interest in the discussion, but what I quickly found was a cult of extremists only interested in producing and disseminating anti treatment propaganda.
Riiiiighttt. And which program would that be? What you aver is simply not believable. You have never ventured to describe any program on fornits in anything other than the most general and non-specific terms. Even program parents and EdCons are able to be more specific than you.
The simplistic extremist argument here is held up with innuendo, mistruths, ommission and the most effective is generalizing isolated incidents and claiming they happen to every teen in treatment.
Link, or it never happened. Nobody here has ever ventured that all kids get subjected to all the abuses this industry dishes out. If that were the case, there would be claims of a 100% mortality rate. Seems to me that you are the one holding up "simplistic extremist arguments with innuendo," untruths, omissions and whitewashing generalizations. :D
I went to a program that has it's own subforum here, and I'll leave it at that. If you don't want to believe me, that's up to you, it doesn't bother me in the least. I do not get angry that you disagree with me, like the extremists here do when whooter posts. I will not claim you are brainwashed since you hold different views, unlike the extremists here do to people like me. I can understand why a person that had a bad experience themselves wishes to tell the world about it, but I am also going to be here to remind people that these types of negative stories are in the minority. Just take a look at the numbers of people posting here if you want proof.
Link or it never happened you say, the typical fornits double standard. I don't have the time and frankly don't feel like digging through a mountain of old posts to show the number of posts from posters here claiming all programs need to be shut. But had I come claiming I was horribly abused, no matter how extraordinary it might sound, I doubt you would be questioning whether I was lying, and asking for links and proof. This is a double standard, you find it hard to believe that I am in the majority of experiences but this is a fact. Standard treatment procedures are considered abusive on this forum by the extremists, therefore in order to end the "abuse" the only logical solution would be to shut all programs. This argument is made countless times here by the same people. You know this is true, but you want to make it appear you hold the middle ground argument. The fact is the middle ground argument belongs to Whooter, while the anti treatment protesters fall in the realm of extremism by any definition, of which you seem to be included. Why else would me simply stating my opinion illicit such a quick attempt at discretization?
The problem with the extremist argument here is it's unable to even entertain the possibility that an experience like mine is even possible. The fact is it's not only possible, in fact it is common. Instead of disagreeing with people like me, you choose to claim that it is made up, all lies, and not believable. I choose to believe everything everyone says on this website, what other choice do I have? What I disagree is what conclusions are drawn from this information. Negative stories are sad, but they are in the very slim minority, so much so I do not believe they justify a government takeover or shut down of the free market adolescent treatment industry. You had a horrible time in programs? I believe you. You had a wonderful time, it saved your life? I believe you. What makes it so difficult for a fornits exremist to acknowledge the simple fact that not everybody is abused in a treatment program, and some people are even thankful for the experience and know it saved their life. To the poster here this argument represents nothing other than lies, or brainwashing which basically means the same thing, that it's not true and we are claiming things that are not true and were pressured into us by others. I have had a long time to come to my conclusions and just because they are dangerous to the delusions of certain extremists does not make them untrue.
I wish the people here would accept the positive experiences just as they accept the negative stories. You could still maintain your argument that one kid being harmed is too many, and we should throw the baby out with the bathwater and ignore the huge majority of kids who are helped rather than harmed. This would be an honest argument to make. Instead you dismiss the positive, focus in on the negative and take it from there. That's dishonest extremist, plain and simple.
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Another option is to ask fornits admins to list out our user names (and string together past anon posts)and post them publicly. I have done this upon request a few times before and am willing to do it again, if it interests you (I have nothing to hide).
Why, yes, it does interest me. Please have it done right away, as you just offered to do. I'll be glad to see the results straight away.
So since I have had it done a few times previous I dont think you would have a problem getting it done for yourself for once? Do you have anything to hide?
I am guessing you wont do it because you ran off the last few times we had this conversation. I had my posts done and then you ran off when it was your turn. Let us know...., no big deal if you decline. We will just have to take your word that you have advanced degrees eeerrr.. I mean only one user name and no anon posts.
...
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Riiiiighttt. And which program would that be? What you aver is simply not all that believable. You have never ventured to describe any program on fornits in anything other than the most general and non-specific terms. Even program parents and EdCons are able to be more specific than you.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=30005&p=366943#p357813)
I'm reading a lot of BULLSHIT in this forum. WWASPS is the best thing that ever happened, Stop lying you idiots!!
It appears to be a WWASPS program, but a quick read through SUCK ITs posts seems to reveal a very familiar style and format. Of 111 posts, 30 say "Whooter is great" in some verbiage or other.
Remember, we won't have to guess soon because Whooter just said he will have his usernames and anon posts strung together a few posts back. We'll see "Who's Who" as soon as it's done. If Whooter were actually honest about his logins this wouldn't be necessary, but he continues to hide his multiple identities he's already admitting to using. Anywway, we'll see soon when Whooter does what he promised to do. I have a feeling he'll cop out though.
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Riiiiighttt. And which program would that be? What you aver is simply not all that believable. You have never ventured to describe any program on fornits in anything other than the most general and non-specific terms. Even program parents and EdCons are able to be more specific than you.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=30005&p=366943#p357813)
I'm reading a lot of BULLSHIT in this forum. WWASPS is the best thing that ever happened, Stop lying you idiots!!
It appears to be a WWASPS program, but a quick read through SUCK ITs posts seems to reveal a very familiar style and format. Of 111 posts, 30 say "Whooter is great" in some verbiage or other.
Remember, we won't have to guess soon because Whooter just said he will have his usernames and anon posts strung together a few posts back. We'll see "Who's Who" as soon as it's done. If Whooter were actually honest about his logins this wouldn't be necessary, but he continues to hide his multiple identities he's already admitting to using. Anywway, we'll see soon when Whooter does what he promised to do. I have a feeling he'll cop out though.
Just think how easier it would be to accept that I am an individual with a different view than yours. No more mental hurdles, conspiracy theories and research attempting to find the non existent smoking gun where you prove I really am Whooter. I'll give you a hint, you're wasting your time. i am not Whooter, although I do find his honesty on this site refreshing and have said this before.
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Dysfunction Junction, take a look at one of your previous posts. You posted the following:
Link to DJ's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368506#p368506)
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent
..........................
June 6th 2007 was a Wednesday (your fabricated post says it is a Friday) which showed you just made this post up out of thin air. Thewho could not have possibly sent this. The next time you write something with another person’s name on it try to get the dates right. Are you sure you want to stick with the story that you have advanced degrees? lol
...
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Dysfunction Junction, take a look at one of your previous posts. You posted the following:
Link to DJ's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368506#p368506)
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent
..........................
June 6th 2007 was a Wednesday (your fabricated post says it is a Friday) which showed you just made this post up out of thin air. Thewho could not have possibly sent this. The next time you write something with another person’s name on it try to get the dates right. Are you sure you want to stick with the story that you have advanced degrees? lol
...
Here's the actual post. Clearly I was just quoting the guest, whom you referred to multiple times as "Bruce" in your replies. :o Nice copy/paste job. I wonder why you didn't include the full post? :seg: :waaaa:
Well, you didn't say over and over you went to Chicago. In fact, you denied it vehemently and demands "proof" that you did. You demanded I link a Chicago IP address to TheWho's postings from that period, but why should I? You forgot you lied about this and had already posted in January 2007 that you went to Chicago the month before. Why did you lie about your trip to Chicago?
{link to source} TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/posting.php?mode=quote&f=9&p=245433)
You also were denying you had an extensive arrest record, apparently forgetting you had already admitted to being "arrested several times in Boston" and once in Michigan. Why did you lie about your criminal past?
{link to source}TheWho admitting to his arrest record for "multiple arrests" (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23338&p=284895&hilit=+arrest#p284895)
You also deny you are John Reuben, but you PMed me with your email address when you thought I was interested in sending my kid to ASR. And that email address is one and the same with the Administrator email address for savingteens.org. So you were caught in yet another lie. Why did you lie about your identity?
You may have emailed John Reuben but where is your proof that you emailed me? See what I am saying?
No, you PMed me with the email address later to be proven to be John Reuben's
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent
Personally I think ASR is a good program. It worked for our family. My kid was there
when Dave Marcus wrote his book based on the kids in the program and they got back on
track and matured. I have been to the campus many times and think if it's a good fit
for your son that you shouldn't worry about it. Don't trust what you read on this site
because the members here are all anti-program and have an agenda to discredit all
programs. If you want to contact me outside fornits I can help you get in contact with
someone who can help you make the right decision. You can email me at
[email protected]. Good luck and I hope it all works out for you.
You also say you are just a parent with no ties to the TTI industry, but yet you attended a meeting in Chicago with a group of other TTI players in order to try to make statistical proof that programs are safe and effective and bragged about your meeting here while logged in with the username "TheWho." Later you denied you are part of the industry and that you went to Chicago at all which are both proven lies. Why did you lie about your role in the TTI?
{link to source} What players? where was the meeting and when was it held? Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first.
You said it was a meeting in December 2006 at the Hyatt in Chicago of your statistical group to asses the safety of TBS's.You're the one who said it. Were you lying then or now?
The readers here deserve an explanation of the above proven lies. Why won't you explain the lies?
I agree but first you need to prove your posts.
You need proof, Bruce, you havent proved anything yet. We need a smoking gun and all we see are "your" words. Many who might have believed thewho was this Reuben guy are now starting to doubt it. You havent shown anything yet. Start filling in the Citations and see how you make out. Then we can go from there.
And, I'm obviously not "Bruce." So you can stop trying to pin this on him. You're the liar here. You need to account for your lies.
'
I believe the Guest above created the subject of this thread. I have just fleshed it out a bit, but not changed it. I believe you actually tried to change it several times, but we keep coming back to the thread topic anyway.
Funny how you're very adept at the quote function when you need it to be correct, but get a li'l sloppy when trying to perpetrate fraud on someone else. I love the smell of desperation, it smells like...victory. :cheers:
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Riiiiighttt. And which program would that be? What you aver is simply not all that believable. You have never ventured to describe any program on fornits in anything other than the most general and non-specific terms. Even program parents and EdCons are able to be more specific than you.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=30005&p=366943#p357813)
I'm reading a lot of BULLSHIT in this forum. WWASPS is the best thing that ever happened, Stop lying you idiots!!
It appears to be a WWASPS program, but a quick read through SUCK ITs posts seems to reveal a very familiar style and format. Of 111 posts, 30 say "Whooter is great" in some verbiage or other.
Remember, we won't have to guess soon because Whooter just said he will have his usernames and anon posts strung together a few posts back. We'll see "Who's Who" as soon as it's done. If Whooter were actually honest about his logins this wouldn't be necessary, but he continues to hide his multiple identities he's already admitting to using. Anywway, we'll see soon when Whooter does what he promised to do. I have a feeling he'll cop out though.
Just think how easier it would be to accept that I am an individual with a different view than yours. No more mental hurdles, conspiracy theories and research attempting to find the non existent smoking gun where you prove I really am Whooter. I'll give you a hint, you're wasting your time. i am not Whooter, although I do find his honesty on this site refreshing and have said this before.
Hey, if you're not, you're not. I have no problem with that. Whooter can clear it up for us by just saying which of the multiple logins are actually him and which ones aren't.
Not sure how duplicity via multiple logins is "honest" though, SUCK IT. Maybe you can explain how creating multiple logins to have them ratpack other posters so it seems as if many people share that POV fits in your definition of "honest." I'm interested to hear it.
And I thought you said before you weren't going to "waste your holiday weekend"? Go have some fun. Myself, I'm free all day today but have a wedding to go to tonight. Don't want to be accused of "running" from anything, ya know? :)
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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I got a question for Whooter. When you sent your child to ASR did you know a counselor named Brett Carey?
The name does sound familiar, but I dont know for sure.
...
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Riiiiighttt. And which program would that be? What you aver is simply not all that believable. You have never ventured to describe any program on fornits in anything other than the most general and non-specific terms. Even program parents and EdCons are able to be more specific than you.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=30005&p=366943#p357813)
I'm reading a lot of BULLSHIT in this forum. WWASPS is the best thing that ever happened, Stop lying you idiots!!
It appears to be a WWASPS program, but a quick read through SUCK ITs posts seems to reveal a very familiar style and format. Of 111 posts, 30 say "Whooter is great" in some verbiage or other.
Remember, we won't have to guess soon because Whooter just said he will have his usernames and anon posts strung together a few posts back. We'll see "Who's Who" as soon as it's done. If Whooter were actually honest about his logins this wouldn't be necessary, but he continues to hide his multiple identities he's already admitting to using. Anywway, we'll see soon when Whooter does what he promised to do. I have a feeling he'll cop out though.
Just think how easier it would be to accept that I am an individual with a different view than yours. No more mental hurdles, conspiracy theories and research attempting to find the non existent smoking gun where you prove I really am Whooter. I'll give you a hint, you're wasting your time. i am not Whooter, although I do find his honesty on this site refreshing and have said this before.
Hey, if you're not, you're not. I have no problem with that. Whooter can clear it up for us by just saying which of the multiple logins are actually him and which ones aren't.
Not sure how duplicity via multiple logins is "honest" though, SUCK IT. Maybe you can explain how creating multiple logins to have them ratpack other posters so it seems as if many people share that POV fits in your definition of "honest." I'm interested to hear it.
And I thought you said before you weren't going to "waste your holiday weekend"? Go have some fun. Myself, I'm free all day today but have a wedding to go to tonight. Don't want to be accused of "running" from anything, ya know? :)
Nobody ever said that I was Whooter, he didn't, I didn't. The only person claiming that is you. So you want someone else to prove to you that your own personal delusions are incorrect, sorry buddy, but it doesn't work that way. If you have evidence that Whooter is posting under multiple logins, post it, otherwise you are just making assumptions, which in my case was completely incorrect. Your "dance whooter dance" and "victory" claims and trying to force Whooter to give up his anonymity is disturbing, to me at least. It makes you appear controlling and obsessed, with an argument that means nothing to anybody other than you. After posting so much angst, you then make the insincere gesture that everything in your life is cool and breezy, which just comes off as completely false in a desperate bid to convince us that you are not obsessed and controlling. That's how it comes off to me, at least. It's very common to the extremists here this type of obsession with Whooter, its all very confusing. You people dismiss Whooter as a troll (I think you are actually trolling him), but then make so much effort to argue with him and then throw in reasons from your personal life why you are not as psycho as you appear to be. This post probably made little sense, but its an attempt to put into words this strange situation on this forum that seems to repeat itself over and over. The only reason thi would be a waste of time is if you assume the person you are talking to is lying, or just trolling which you do believe. I tend to believe people are making arguments based on their point of view.
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Joel, Whooter just repetitively states "ASR helped my daughter." When you ask for details...he gets a bit hazy. Just sayin'.
BTW, Whooter, I made the request to Psy via PM to identify and post publicly (as you stated you wanted done) the information you wanted - for both of us. Hopefully he'll do it. I'm eager to see the results.
I see you skipped over where you phonied up the author of that post, too. *wink* Nice job. :beat: Why you fabricate so much, I'll never be able to guess...
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If you have evidence that Whooter is posting under multiple logins, post it, otherwise you are just making assumptions,
No, no assumptions at all. He said he did it. Here ya go:
Whooter is the glossy brochure, while his other usernames (Mitt Romney, SUCK IT, Al Gore, Sarah Palin, RobertBruce ., Queef, John McCain, etc. ad nauseum) are the thugs that actually get their hands on your children.
{snip}
I can tell you that of the list of usernames that you laid out above, some are mine and some are not.
{snip}
So,right there (full, unedited text) (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&start=120#p368558)he admits to posting with multiple logins, he just didn't tell us which were his. This proves I was correct about it, although he vehemently denied it for several years.
Can you please answer my previous question? How does that square with your definition of "honesty"? I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
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Not sure how duplicity via multiple logins is "honest" though
What he might mean is that Whooter has been honest enough to have all his posts strung together and his accounts looked at by admins here along with any names he has used as log ins several times.
Unlike you who claim to only have one user name but will not have your posts strung together or any other usernames listed.
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If you have evidence that Whooter is posting under multiple logins, post it, otherwise you are just making assumptions,
No, no assumptions at all. He said he did it. Here ya go:
Whooter is the glossy brochure, while his other usernames (Mitt Romney, SUCK IT, Al Gore, Sarah Palin, RobertBruce ., Queef, John McCain, etc. ad nauseum) are the thugs that actually get their hands on your children.
{snip}
I can tell you that of the list of usernames that you laid out above, some are mine and some are not.
{snip}
So,right there (full, unedited text) (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&start=120#p368558)he admits to posting with multiple logins, he just didn't tell us which were his. This proves I was correct about it, although he vehemently denied it for several years.
Can you please answer my previous question? How does that square with your definition of "honesty"? I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
He didn't say "I am SUCK IT", so the only possible explanation for you making that conclusion is your own assumptions. That's just how I see it. His quote saying some are his and some are not, well that seems pretty honest, right? I am not him, maybe another one of those names is him, who knows. But really, who cares? So what if a poster has another username, does that automatically discredit their argument? I don't think so. Whooter makes a simple argument here, that his teen was helped ina program and that she doesn't hate him because he sent her. That doesn't strike me as shockingly unlikely, in fact it is a very likely scenario for parents that use treatment programs. The thing that pisses people off about Whooter.. well, I really don't know. perhaps it's his tenacity to deal with the threats, and bullying directed his way. For that much, i applaud him for putting up with it because he has an important voice of reason on this forum filled with so much anti treatment extremism. You are expending a great efforting into trying to convince others that Whooter is a liar, but in the end all that time is meaningless. You mine as well argue against his reasonable views that programs help kids. But since that is a fact, I guess you're stuck fighting the person saying it. Good luck with that. I for one believe Whooter and appreciate his light hearted approach to calling people out for mistruths, rather than the intense confonrtational style so often experienced here, ironically by the people who claim to be fighting against this type of behavior. Hope you havea good holiday whooter!
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BTW, Whooter, I made the request to Psy via PM to identify and post publicly (as you stated you wanted done) the information you wanted - for both of us. Hopefully he'll do it. I'm eager to see the results.
He will do it if you want him to. He just needs to find the time. The last time you came up with excuses not to have it done. I cant PM him to do yours and vice versa. Once I see your results I will PM him to have mine done. Since you backed out last time, I doubt you will do it this time.
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If you have evidence that Whooter is posting under multiple logins, post it, otherwise you are just making assumptions,
No, no assumptions at all. He said he did it. Here ya go:
Whooter is the glossy brochure, while his other usernames (Mitt Romney, SUCK IT, Al Gore, Sarah Palin, RobertBruce ., Queef, John McCain, etc. ad nauseum) are the thugs that actually get their hands on your children.
{snip}
I can tell you that of the list of usernames that you laid out above, some are mine and some are not.
{snip}
So,right there (full, unedited text) (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30744&start=120#p368558)he admits to posting with multiple logins, he just didn't tell us which were his. This proves I was correct about it, although he vehemently denied it for several years.
Can you please answer my previous question? How does that square with your definition of "honesty"? I'm interested to hear your thoughts.
He didn't say "I am SUCK IT", so the only possible explanation for you making that conclusion is your own assumptions. That's just how I see it. His quote saying some are his and some are not, well that seems pretty honest, right? I am not him, maybe another one of those names is him, who knows. But really, who cares? So what if a poster has another username, does that automatically discredit their argument? I don't think so. Whooter makes a simple argument here, that his teen was helped ina program and that she doesn't hate him because he sent her. That doesn't strike me as shockingly unlikely, in fact it is a very likely scenario for parents that use treatment programs. The thing that pisses people off about Whooter.. well, I really don't know. perhaps it's his tenacity to deal with the threats, and bullying directed his way. For that much, i applaud him for putting up with it because he has an important voice of reason on this forum filled with so much anti treatment extremism. You are expending a great efforting into trying to convince others that Whooter is a liar, but in the end all that time is meaningless. You mine as well argue against his reasonable views that programs help kids. But since that is a fact, I guess you're stuck fighting the person saying it. Good luck with that. I for one believe Whooter and appreciate his light hearted approach to calling people out for mistruths, rather than the intense confonrtational style so often experienced here, ironically by the people who claim to be fighting against this type of behavior. Hope you havea good holiday whooter!
Thanks, Suck it. The guy has fabricated so much stuff its nice to be able to put him in his place and expose his lies. Thanks for posting and being honest.
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Mr. Dysfunction Junction,I followed this link and it is part of your post. I checked a calendar from 2007 and June 6, 2007 was a Wednesday not a Friday as your post says it was. The information that you are using against whooter has been fabricated. Why do you do this to someone?
Below was copied from a previous post by whooter
Link to DJ's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368506#p368506)
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent
..........................
************************************************
Whooter said:
June 6th 2007 was a Wednesday (your fabricated post says it is a Friday) which showed you just made this post up out of thin air. Thewho could not have possibly sent this. The next time you write something with another person’s name on it try to get the dates right. Are you sure you want to stick with the story that you have advanced degrees? lol
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OK, I got it, SUCK IT. Honesty means dishonesty. How very...Orwellian. :beat:
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Whooter is really like a lower organism with a primitive nerve net and ganglion where a "brain" would exist in a normal person - even with it's head cut off, arms cut off, legs cut off and disemboweled, it still twitches repetitively although it's technically dead.
I read this thread and don't see Whooter being disrespectful or using insults. Dysfunction Junction is a mean person.
Dance, puppet, dance! Remember, I control your actions now. I exploit your compulsions and make you act in a way totally irreconcilable with what you try to make people here believe about yourself.
Angry? Really? I'm absolutely giddy watching you self-immolate and run around on fire. I mean, I do love watching Ursus eat your lunch on a daily basis (among others) but watching you do yourself in? That's priceless.
Your behavior here has sunk you and five years of your life, posting like a slave, is utterly wasted. Let's face it, new users are calling you out on their first posts here now. Indeed, that's results-driven feedback. You try to chime in on any topic and quickly get flushed by even the newest posters, complete with links to your posts. You might want to try out some new identity like you did last time. This one's cooked.
Keep twitchin' lizard brain. :cheers: :feedtrolls:
It's evident from this post Dysfunction Junction is a control freak. He takes pleasure in the idea of controlling others.
Most all of you have had to contend with control freaks. These are those people who insist on having their way in all interactions with you. They wish to set the agenda and decide what it is you will do and when you will do it. You know who they are – they have a driving need to run the show and call the shots.
Lurking within the fabric of the conversation is the clear threat that if you do not accede to their needs and demands, they will be unhappy.
Certainly, it’s natural to want to be in control of your life. But when you have to be in control of the people around you as well, when you literally can’t rest until you get your way … you have a personality disorder.
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Whooter is really like a lower organism with a primitive nerve net and ganglion where a "brain" would exist in a normal person - even with it's head cut off, arms cut off, legs cut off and disemboweled, it still twitches repetitively although it's technically dead.
I read this thread and don't see Whooter being disrespectful or using insults. Dysfunction Junction is a mean person.
Dance, puppet, dance! Remember, I control your actions now. I exploit your compulsions and make you act in a way totally irreconcilable with what you try to make people here believe about yourself.
Angry? Really? I'm absolutely giddy watching you self-immolate and run around on fire. I mean, I do love watching Ursus eat your lunch on a daily basis (among others) but watching you do yourself in? That's priceless.
Your behavior here has sunk you and five years of your life, posting like a slave, is utterly wasted. Let's face it, new users are calling you out on their first posts here now. Indeed, that's results-driven feedback. You try to chime in on any topic and quickly get flushed by even the newest posters, complete with links to your posts. You might want to try out some new identity like you did last time. This one's cooked.
Keep twitchin' lizard brain. :cheers: :feedtrolls:
It's evident from this post Dysfunction Junction is a control freak. He takes pleasure in the idea of controlling others.
Most all of you have had to contend with control freaks. These are those people who insist on having their way in all interactions with you. They wish to set the agenda and decide what it is you will do and when you will do it. You know who they are – they have a driving need to run the show and call the shots.
Lurking within the fabric of the conversation is the clear threat that if you do not accede to their needs and demands, they will be unhappy.
Certainly, it’s natural to want to be in control of your life. But when you have to be in control of the people around you as well, when you literally can’t rest until you get your way … you have a personality disorder.
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So, who's alt are you Jamal?? My bet's on DannyBoi.
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Nah, I'm going with "SUCK IT". The aggressive trolling style is all his.
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I hate to say it, but it appears jamal is just another Whooter sockpuppet. So, Anne, you're completely wrong and Pile is partially correct, insofar as Whooter and SUCK IT are obviously the same poster.
Check it out: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=29471&p=362870#p362870)
Ha,Ha,Ha.... very funny everybody. Just because Psy decided to sign himself into a state regulated treatment center as a legal adult of the age of 18 and could have left whenever he wanted all while claiming it was his parents, does not give you the right to make fun of his sexuality. you people should be ashamed of yourselves!
This means people like me can get sent to program (as I was) for being bisexual and having religious opinions my parents felt distasteful.
:agree:
Look familiar to you now? It's not a coincidence that many have referred to Whooter as "Cybil" here. Of course, there are the obligatory attacks on me, Ursus and Anne (referred to as "Anne Conney" by jamal).
Whooter recently expressed his desire to have all of his usernames postsed publicly by the admins and I asked Psy to do that (and for me too, as Whooter asked), so hopefully it will all be much more clear very soon.
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I hate to say it, but it appears jamal is just another Whooter sockpuppet. So, Anne, you're completely wrong and Pile is partially correct, insofar as Whooter and SUCK IT are obviously the same poster.
Ha,Ha,Ha.... very funny everybody.
Yep.....me thinks you have a point. :seg2:
I'm telling ya......we must be having some kind of an effect, cuz they wouldn't waste so much of their time trying to deflect and distort things if we were as "insignificant" as they'd like us to think. :rocker: :rocker: :seg:
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You can add "Queef" to Dysfunctions delusion too. He thinks that is one of my user names. lol
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Of course, Whooter could end all the speculation and just post all of his usernames. After all, he claims he's "honest," so why he keeps hiding behind all these usernames is anyone's guess! He already admitted to having several of them but strangely won't say what they are...
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I hate to say it but DJ, Pile and Anne y'all are wrong. There are many folks out there just like you folks who talk amongst themselves and post. At times I think you "3" are all the same poster because you parrot one another.
Well we all talk also, who is we and who is talking with you is any ones guess.
But know this all the posters you think are one, sorry you could not be further from the truth.
Guys just post your opinions and move on, you don't see us discussing on air who the hell we think you are, who gives a shit.
Were here to post, not play silly games, jeesh who is whooter, who is suck it, who is jamal....grow up.
You have never heard any of us ask who you folks are, we don't care.
You are a paragraph, a sentence whatever...
We post and you post......nobody is looking for a relationship, especially with you bunch of extremists.
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danny whats a matter old friend did you lose my number i still have yours is it on?
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You have never heard any of us ask who you folks are...
If only that were true, Danny. For years here on Fornits people (to name a few - Whooter, Ottawa5, KarenInDallas) have been acutely interested in finding out who I am and their overt, explicit, openly stated goal has been "to get DJ fired from his job." You haven't been here long enough to know this history.
Not only do these people want to see me "discredited" on Fornits (obviously the truth hurts and they watched as a small number of us got HLA shut down which made them fear for their own precious programs), they also want me to be unemployed and unable to support my family. You think I'm an extremist? You ain't seen extreme, my friend.
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You have never heard any of us ask who you folks are...
If only that were true, Danny. For years here on Fornits people (to name a few - Whooter, Ottawa5, KarenInDallas) have been acutely interested in finding out who I am and their overt, explicit, openly stated goal has been "to get DJ fired from his job." You haven't been here long enough to know this history.
Not only do these people want to see me "discredited" on Fornits (obviously the truth hurts and they watched as a small number of us got HLA shut down which made them fear for their own precious programs), they also want me to be unemployed and unable to support my family. You think I'm an extremist? You ain't seen extreme, my friend.
I cant speak for Ottawa5 or Karenfromdallas but you can take me off that list. Anyone who has read my posts know I dont work towards getting someone fired or discrediting them. If there is a specific post which lead you to believe that was my intent you can put up a link and we can talk about it.
...
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You have never heard any of us ask who you folks are...
If only that were true, Danny. For years here on Fornits people (to name a few - Whooter, Ottawa5, KarenInDallas) have been acutely interested in finding out who I am and their overt, explicit, openly stated goal has been "to get DJ fired from his job." You haven't been here long enough to know this history.
Not only do these people want to see me "discredited" on Fornits (obviously the truth hurts and they watched as a small number of us got HLA shut down which made them fear for their own precious programs), they also want me to be unemployed and unable to support my family. You think I'm an extremist? You ain't seen extreme, my friend.
I cant speak for Ottawa5 or Karenfromdallas but you can take me off that list. Anyone who has read my posts know I dont work towards getting someone fired or discrediting them. If there is a specific post which lead you to believe that was my intent you can put up a link and we can talk about it.
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Well Whooter that is not exactly true, to go as far as getting someone fired no I have never read anything you have posted, that goes that far. But as far as discrediting one another on this site, well come on now. Were all doing this to one degree or another.
DJ apologizes for any incorrect statements, I had thought I had done my research properly.
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You have never heard any of us ask who you folks are...
If only that were true, Danny. For years here on Fornits people (to name a few - Whooter, Ottawa5, KarenInDallas) have been acutely interested in finding out who I am and their overt, explicit, openly stated goal has been "to get DJ fired from his job." You haven't been here long enough to know this history.
Not only do these people want to see me "discredited" on Fornits (obviously the truth hurts and they watched as a small number of us got HLA shut down which made them fear for their own precious programs), they also want me to be unemployed and unable to support my family. You think I'm an extremist? You ain't seen extreme, my friend.
I cant speak for Ottawa5 or Karenfromdallas but you can take me off that list. Anyone who has read my posts know I dont work towards getting someone fired or discrediting them. If there is a specific post which lead you to believe that was my intent you can put up a link and we can talk about it.
...
Well Whooter that is not exactly true, to go as far as getting someone fired no I have never read anything you have posted, that goes that far. But as far as discrediting one another on this site, well come on now. Were all doing this to one degree or another.
DJ apologizes for any incorrect statements, I had thought I had done my research properly.
I am sure I have or at least it looks that way. If I see someone posting things that are false I will call them out. But I dont see myself as someone who actively tries to discredit someones point of view.
...
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Two things are out of bounds IMHO - going after someone's family or livelihood. I've had both done to me.
A few years ago we were getting threatening calls in the middle of the night and it scared my poor wife near to death. There has been a loaded 12 gage riot gun (7 shells in the mag and one in the hole) under the bed ever since. Some people are just plain crazy and there's no way to predict their behavior. I'm taking no chances. Invade my home and you're guaranteed to take a pair of #2 rounds first (point-and-pull) followed by as many 00's (aim steady and finish the job) as it takes.
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Remember when the admins here posted an auction to identify the real life identity of Dysfunction Junction? Oh wait, that was Whooter! Remember when posters here worked themselves into a frenzy, including dysfunction junction, when they thought they had really discovered Whooter's real life identity, and then worked to prank call his business and send all his real life friends and family emails about 'how evil whooter really is online'? Or how about DJ and his friends constantly posting what they believe to be Whooter's real life identity on this forum to this day? The double standards here are noticeable, they treat Whooter like he's a piece of trash who they can abuse online and in real life, and then whine about it when it happens to them.
So DJ considers himself a victim because he got a few prank phone calls, and the wife got scared. Maybe she should have asked him why he is posting on a website full of hate filled individuals. "I'm helping kids out". No you aren't. What do you get out of fornits? You get to argue with people all day long, accomplish nothing and now you sleep with a loaded shotgun under your bed. Talk about paranoid!! No wonder he thinks that every poster here is Whooter, can anyone say paranoid delusions? Whooter put up with the same abuse, I'm guessing he's sane enough to NOT sleep with a loaded shotgun under the bed. Wouldn't it be sad to be that fearful in your life that sleeping with a huge gun under your bed is necessary? I feel sorry for anyone that scared in life. I like how he posts here in detail about the loaded shotgun, more internet tough guy bullshit.
Slowly a picture of this person Deyfunction Junction is starting to become clear. He likes to pretend he is a puppet master of Whooter and takes pleasure in the idea that he controls him, as pointed out by other posters. He is filled with hate and fear, and is so paranoid unable to distinguish between individuals and just groups them into the 'evil whooter like category'. Your wife must really think you're something. "We got to keep a loaded shotgun under the bed because of fornits forum", laugh, chuckle, snort. What a paranoid, scared little loser.
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Hey, SUCK IT, why don't you swing by...Let's say around 2am...come through the back window. :suicide:
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Hey, SUCK IT, why don't you swing by...Let's say around 2am...come through the back window. :suicide:
So when you get angry when having an online debate, you want to blow the person's brains out with a shotgun? You are unstable, paranoid and murderous. Thank God you don't work for any treatment programs any more. :twofinger:
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So when you get angry when having an online debate, you want to blow the person's brains out with a shotgun? You are unstable, paranoid and murderous. Thank God you don't work for any treatment programs any more. :twofinger:
Nah... I can't actually speak for DJ, but he seemed quite clear about the conditions:
"Invade my home and you're guaranteed to take a pair of #2 rounds first (point-and-pull) followed by as many 00's (aim steady and finish the job) as it takes."[/list]
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Lols. Yeah, I'm unstable, paranoid and...EEK! Murderous. And you are an idiot.
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So when you get angry when having an online debate, you want to blow the person's brains out with a shotgun? You are unstable, paranoid and murderous. Thank God you don't work for any treatment programs any more. :twofinger:
Nah... I can't actually speak for DJ, but he seemed quite clear about the conditions:
"Invade my home and you're guaranteed to take a pair of #2 rounds first (point-and-pull) followed by as many 00's (aim steady and finish the job) as it takes."[/list]
So Ursus, does posting on fornits make you so paranoid to sleep with a loaded gun under your pillow as well? You think Whooter might get angry and come invade your home? LMAO
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Remember when the admins here posted an auction to identify the real life identity of Dysfunction Junction?
Uh, no. How 'bout a link?
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So when you get angry when having an online debate, you want to blow the person's brains out with a shotgun? You are unstable, paranoid and murderous. Thank God you don't work for any treatment programs any more. :twofinger:
Nah... I can't actually speak for DJ, but he seemed quite clear about the conditions:
"Invade my home and you're guaranteed to take a pair of #2 rounds first (point-and-pull) followed by as many 00's (aim steady and finish the job) as it takes."[/list]
Hey, when people call my home in the middle of the night and wife answers to be told that "I'm coming and I'm gonna take you out. You're husband's DEAD!" yeah, I take that seriously. When I reported it to the police they suggested I be ready to respond with force. And so I am. And I will. No exceptions.
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Lols. Yeah, I'm unstable, paranoid and...EEK! Murderous. And you are an idiot.
Well to be fair, all of these emotions are rooted in fear. You are a scared person, and that comes across when you post on an online discussion forum in detail about the weaponry you keep under your pillow. Lots of people get prank phone calls, not everyone assumes someone is coming to murder them in the middle of the night, for years afterwards. What is more likely, that a hit man for the teen help industry is going to come strolling into your bedroom in the middle of the night? Or that some drug addict who thinks nobody is home will come looking for silver to sell for their next score? Then you get your chance to pretend you're a man in front of scared wife and blow him away. This is your fantasy, correct? That's why you fantasize about me coming in at 2AM so you can blow me away. Then you just might finally prove to yourselves that you aren't perpetually fearful of an imaginary enemy. This is a fantasy many scared people who buy guns have, they hope some day they will get to prove themselves as a man. It's rather pathetic if you ask me. You'll statistically end up murdering someone who was there to steal something, or a drunk teenager who crawled into the wrong house on the block or something. But if pretending to be a big man with the wife and keep a loaded shotgun under the bed works for you, that's great. So yes you are paranoid (that's why you keep it loaded and a shell in chamber) and unstable and murderous (who else fantasizes about using their shotgun on a human being?), but those are just symptoms of your fear. You should address the issue that you are a scared person before you murder the wrong person, I"m being totally serious. Seek help
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So when you get angry when having an online debate, you want to blow the person's brains out with a shotgun? You are unstable, paranoid and murderous. Thank God you don't work for any treatment programs any more. :twofinger:
Nah... I can't actually speak for DJ, but he seemed quite clear about the conditions:
"Invade my home and you're guaranteed to take a pair of #2 rounds first (point-and-pull) followed by as many 00's (aim steady and finish the job) as it takes."[/list]
Hey, when people call my home in the middle of the night and wife answers to be told that "I'm coming and I'm gonna take you out. You're husband's DEAD!" yeah, I take that seriously. When I reported it to the police they suggested I be ready to respond with force. And so I am. And I will. No exceptions.
Because the troubled teen industry is known for sending out hitman to people who criticize them, right? You are insane, and paranoid, and that's never a good combination. I feel sorry for your family.
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Hey, when people call my home in the middle of the night and wife answers to be told that "I'm coming and I'm gonna take you out. You're husband's DEAD!" yeah, I take that seriously. When I reported it to the police they suggested I be ready to respond with force. And so I am. And I will. No exceptions.
Because the troubled teen industry is known for sending out hitman to people who criticize them, right?
It's happened before. Jerry Vancil disappeared right after attempting to report abuses and right before he was supposed to testify about it way bank in the early days. He's still never been found. Ray Bradbury was sued by Sembler (but that actually did Ray a lot more good than it did SmellyBoy....it gave Smelly a ton of bad publicity)
And hey, really...... when you add that (^^^what happened to DJ & family) to the other implied and veiled threats that he's thrown around here lately, it's not that far fetched. I showed one of Danny's posts to me that I felt was threatening to two other attorneys in the building and they both told me to take it very seriously, print out the entire thread, document any other posts that were threatening,( implied/veiled/or straight up threats) and to give him a call if things get worse.
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Hey, when people call my home in the middle of the night and wife answers to be told that "I'm coming and I'm gonna take you out. You're husband's DEAD!" yeah, I take that seriously. When I reported it to the police they suggested I be ready to respond with force. And so I am. And I will. No exceptions.
Because the troubled teen industry is known for sending out hitman to people who criticize them, right?
It's happened before. Jerry Vancil disappeared right after attempting to report abuses and right before he was supposed to testify about it way bank in the early days. He's still never been found. Ray Bradbury was sued by Sembler (but that actually did Ray a lot more good than it did SmellyBoy....it gave Smelly a ton of bad publicity)
And hey, really...... when you add that (^^^what happened to DJ & family) to the other implied and veiled threats that he's thrown around here lately, it's not that far fetched. I showed one of Danny's posts to me that I felt was threatening to two other attorneys in the building and they both told me to take it very seriously, print out the entire thread, document any other posts that were threatening,( implied/veiled/or straight up threats) and to give him a call if things get worse.
If you and DJ get so scared and paranoid to the point where you talk to lawyers and purchase weapons as a result of at all of these threats and personal information being leaked out why do you take such great pleasure when you think my identity is being exposed? Why is it okay for you to do it to others? I dont understand that.
If I were scared of flying I would not take any pleasure in sending other people into airplanes.
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No, normally I wouldn't take it so seriously, but when you're "connected" the way that the honcho of a certain now defunct kiddie jail is, it's a source of worry, yes. When the police take it seriously then so do I.
Yes, SUCK IT, I am fantasizing about proving myself to be a real man by gunning you down in front of my frightened wife and baby. Only your blood will satisfy my needs. Again, you are an idiot. :feedtrolls: :beat:
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Hey, when people call my home in the middle of the night and wife answers to be told that "I'm coming and I'm gonna take you out. You're husband's DEAD!" yeah, I take that seriously. When I reported it to the police they suggested I be ready to respond with force. And so I am. And I will. No exceptions.
Because the troubled teen industry is known for sending out hitman to people who criticize them, right?
It's happened before. Jerry Vancil disappeared right after attempting to report abuses and right before he was supposed to testify about it way bank in the early days. He's still never been found. Ray Bradbury was sued by Sembler (but that actually did Ray a lot more good than it did SmellyBoy....it gave Smelly a ton of bad publicity)
And hey, really...... when you add that (^^^what happened to DJ & family) to the other implied and veiled threats that he's thrown around here lately, it's not that far fetched. I showed one of Danny's posts to me that I felt was threatening to two other attorneys in the building and they both told me to take it very seriously, print out the entire thread, document any other posts that were threatening,( implied/veiled/or straight up threats) and to give him a call if things get worse.
If you and DJ get so scared and paranoid to the point where you talk to lawyers and purchase weapons as a result of at all of these threats and personal information being leaked out why do you take such great pleasure when you think my identity is being exposed? Why is it okay for you to do it to others? I dont understand that.
If I were scared of flying I would not take any pleasure in sending other people into airplanes.
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There's a huge difference between someone speculating about your ID on a message board and someone threatening your family with violence and death via telephone, which indicates they already know your ID and your place of residence. That spells "imminent danger." I'm sure you recognize that.
And I, for one, would never contact your employer or your family if I did know your identity. I think it's wrong and I don't condone that type of behavior. It scares people and that's just not right.
I can't speak for Anne, but she did warn Danny that she felt threatened by his actions and was made to worry for her safety. I see nothing wrong with telling a lawyer and asking for advice. You should do the same, too, Whooter if you feel like you are in real danger. I would support that.
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It's happened before. Jerry Vancil disappeared right after attempting to report abuses and right before he was supposed to testify about it way bank in the early days. He's still never been found.
So it was proved that a treatment program sent out hit men to eliminate this person reporting abuse? Or is it just as likely they went and shot themselves in the woods because they were suicidal? Or maybe somebody killed them for a totally unrelated reason? Or maybe they are alive and well and decided to change identities for whatever reason. If this is just more speculation on the part of paranoid fornits extremists, it just prove anything. Just more paranoid conspiracy theorizing on your part, as usual. But I see you posting things about CIA brainwashing so that's not exactly surprising.
Ray Bradbury was sued by Sembler (but that actually did Ray a lot more good than it did SmellyBoy....it gave Smelly a ton of bad publicity)
Sleeping with a loaded shotgun under your bed won't prevent you from getting sued. If you libel any business with the means to sue, they will, wait for it... sue you. Welcome to america, where people sue you when you slander them, whoopdido, so scary.
And hey, really...... when you add that (^^^what happened to DJ & family) to the other implied and veiled threats that he's thrown around here lately, it's not that far fetched.
So some guy went missing, like that never happened before. Someone got sued, and someone prank called dysfunctional junction. You draw the conclusion that it's not far fetched that a treatment program is sending out hit men to eliminate you guys? This is what makes you all so extreme, you draw these insane conclusions based on no evidence at all, just your paranoid conspiracy theories. It is far fetched, like, super remote far fetched. The fact you guys cannot realize this shows how insane you truly are.
I showed one of Danny's posts to me that I felt was threatening to two other attorneys in the building and they both told me to take it very seriously, print out the entire thread, document any other posts that were threatening,( implied/veiled/or straight up threats) and to give him a call if things get worse.
But you guys posting pictures and details of people who work in programs THAT YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT is perfectly legitimate, right? You smear and threaten and post full names and addresses of these people and then cry about it when they do it back to you? How would you feel if there was a pro treatment extremist forum, only they were as extreme as you all but in the other end of the debate spectrum. They would post your pictures and about how evil you are and where you work, and full names. How would that make you feel? You seem so ready to dish it out to people, then cry about it when a small taste of it comes your way. You people are so hypocritical it's almost funny, but not so much funny as it is pathetic.
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It's happened before. Jerry Vancil disappeared right after attempting to report abuses and right before he was supposed to testify about it way bank in the early days. He's still never been found.
So it was proved that a treatment program sent out hit men to eliminate this person reporting abuse? Or is it just as likely they went and shot themselves in the woods because they were suicidal? Or maybe somebody killed them for a totally unrelated reason? Or maybe they are alive and well and decided to change identities for whatever reason. If this is just more speculation on the part of paranoid fornits extremists, it just prove anything. Just more paranoid conspiracy theorizing on your part, as usual. But I see you posting things about CIA brainwashing so that's not exactly surprising.
Yes, it is all speculation. I said that it was an odd coincidence that he disappeared after reporting abuse and right before he was to testify to said abuse. It is a bit suspect.
Sleeping with a loaded shotgun under your bed won't prevent you from getting sued. If you libel any business with the means to sue, they will, wait for it... sue you. Welcome to america, where people sue you when you slander them, whoopdido, so scary.
What the bloody hell does that have to do with anything?
And hey, really...... when you add that (^^^what happened to DJ & family) to the other implied and veiled threats that he's thrown around here lately, it's not that far fetched.
So some guy went missing, like that never happened before. Someone got sued, and someone prank called dysfunctional junction. You draw the conclusion that it's not far fetched that a treatment program is sending out hit men to eliminate you guys? This is what makes you all so extreme, you draw these insane conclusions based on no evidence at all, just your paranoid conspiracy theories. It is far fetched, like, super remote far fetched. The fact you guys cannot realize this shows how insane you truly are.
No, again putting words in my mouth. I said that it was an odd coincidence that he disappeared after reporting abuse and right before he was to testify to said abuse. It is a bit suspect. Danny's been hinting around for a while now that he'll fuck somebody up. When he told me he was in Tampa and going to "pay me a visit", I asked him if I should be scared.....his response was "Hell Ya you should be scared". Wanna tell me that's not at a minimum a veiled threat? I had every right to be a bit nervous after all the sick shit he's posted here, especially about me. I don't think "the program" is sending out hitmen to actually kill people, but I do fully believe that they have been 'dispatched' to make us stop or go away or discredit what we're saying, as evidenced by what they did to Ray.
I showed one of Danny's posts to me that I felt was threatening to two other attorneys in the building and they both told me to take it very seriously, print out the entire thread, document any other posts that were threatening,( implied/veiled/or straight up threats) and to give him a call if things get worse.
But you guys posting pictures and details of people who work in programs THAT YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT is perfectly legitimate, right?
First, I'd need to know which ones you're talking about. If it's from an article or program website, which is a PUBLIC PAGE - fine.
You smear and threaten and post full names and addresses of these people and then cry about it when they do it back to you? How would you feel if there was a pro treatment extremist forum, only they were as extreme as you all but in the other end of the debate spectrum. They would post your pictures and about how evil you are and where you work, and full names. How would that make you feel? You seem so ready to dish it out to people, then cry about it when a small taste of it comes your way. You people are so hypocritical it's almost funny, but not so much funny as it is pathetic.
Again....who and what are you talking about here? I need specifics in order to be able to respond.
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I know the threats that you and others here throw at Whooter regularly are worse than anything you are describing that happened to you. For some reason you cannot make the distinction that Whooter is a human being as well. To you, in your warped mind, anyone who works for a treatment program or even suggests as a parent that it helped them, is open to unrestrained abuse and attempts to negatively impact their real life and business. I don't think Whooter works for any program, I think he's exactly what he says he is, a parent who's kid was helped and that's it. For some reason that makes it OK to smear, what you believe to be, his real identity. Most likely you all who post "his real name" are completely incorrect, thereby introducing an innocent bystander into this hate filled forum, what does that make you for doing this? A nice person? Every single one of you post, what you think is, Whooter's real name and his business and attempt to damage it, in real life. Then you wrap yousrelf with self victimizing ideasand claim immunity, what bullshit.
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How would you feel if there was a pro treatment extremist forum, only they were as extreme as you all but in the other end of the debate spectrum. They would post your pictures and about how evil you are and where you work, and full names. How would that make you feel?
Those pro-program extremists are here and Fornits is their forum. See: Ottawa5, KarenInDallas and TheWho. Thankfully none of them were/are smart enough to come up with anything. They sure did try though.
And, to be fair, KarenInDallas, a lawyer, is completely reformed, has seen the error of her ways and is now representing...wait for it...claimants against programs. Once her child had left the program she was able to see and hear directly from her child what was done to them in the name of "treatment." Karen also offered me a sincere, complete apology for what she did. So I have no problem with her.
Ottawa5 is, and remains, a giant scumbag. And TheWho, meh. He's harmless to me, but IMO dangerous to kids when he ropes their parents into Aspen programs, well known to be abusive - rape, murder, abuse and neglect galore.
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How would you feel if there was a pro treatment extremist forum, only they were as extreme as you all but in the other end of the debate spectrum. They would post your pictures and about how evil you are and where you work, and full names. How would that make you feel?
Those pro-program extremists are here and Fornits is their forum. See: Ottawa5, KarenInDallas and TheWho. Thankfully none of them were/are smart enough to come up with anything. They sure did try though.
And, to be fair, KarenInDallas, a lawyer, is completely reformed, has seen the error of her ways and is now representing...wait for it...claimants against programs. Once her child had left the program she was able to see and hear directly from her child what was done to them in the name of "treatment." Karen also offered me a sincere, complete apology for what she did. So I have no problem with her.
Ottawa5 is, and remains, a giant scumbag. And TheWho, meh. He's harmless to me, but IMO dangerous to kids when he ropes their parents into Aspen programs, well known to be abusive - rape, murder, abuse and neglect galore.
So you are scared of a couple of posters on fornits enough to keep a shotgun under your bed, yeah, that's perfectly sane. Not to mention the posters are women, again, very likely to come gunning for you in your bedroom in the middle of the night. You accuse Whooter of being abuse, rapist, murderer and you don't even have any idea as to who the real person's identity really is, you just have a guess. You truly are a paranoid conspiracy theorist, sleeping with a loaded shotgun under your bed. Then you god old Manne bonney posting about CIA conspiracies and presidents, and the picture is starting to become clear what type of person makes up the average fornits extremists here. Think about this dysfunction, at the end of the day I'm not the one going to bed in fear with a loaded weapon under my bed, sucks to be you.
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How would you feel if there was a pro treatment extremist forum, only they were as extreme as you all but in the other end of the debate spectrum. They would post your pictures and about how evil you are and where you work, and full names. How would that make you feel?
Those pro-program extremists are here and Fornits is their forum. See: Ottawa5, KarenInDallas and TheWho. Thankfully none of them were/are smart enough to come up with anything. They sure did try though.
And, to be fair, KarenInDallas, a lawyer, is completely reformed, has seen the error of her ways and is now representing...wait for it...claimants against programs. Once her child had left the program she was able to see and hear directly from her child what was done to them in the name of "treatment." Karen also offered me a sincere, complete apology for what she did. So I have no problem with her.
Ottawa5 is, and remains, a giant scumbag. And TheWho, meh. He's harmless to me, but IMO dangerous to kids when he ropes their parents into Aspen programs, well known to be abusive - rape, murder, abuse and neglect galore.
DJ, we all know if I had tried to expose your identity on even a tenth of the level you have with me you would cry a river here. Just take a look at your footer. Plus it isnt my style and everyone knows that. Sure I might have joked with you about it at times but just look at this thread for instances, you make it your lifes passion to expose who I am. You are looking for sympathy in the wrong thread my man.
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Uh, please explain how linking to the items you posted here equals "trying to expose" your "identity"? My footer merely quotes you. If you're embarrassed or feel weak over what you posted, don't post things like that. I don't see any names or addresses in it, do you?
Looking for sympathy? Not me. You are looking for sympathy by "crying a river here" but not me. And it surely is your style to try to identify posters here.
Remember how you falsely identified RobertBruce as some other kid from HLA and claimed to have access to his treatment records for "gay issues"? Puh-leeease, asshole. I'd recommend two Colace and two Senokot because you are full of shit. You did the same thing to me and tried to get my identity and have me fired from my job (for god knows what, lols), but you just weren't good enough to get the job done. If you could have, you would have.
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You did the same thing to me and tried to get my identity and have me fired from my job (for god knows what, lols), but you just weren't good enough to get the job done. If you could have, you would have.
Oh, go cry us a river, DJ. I did no such thing, not my style. We are not all like you, I could care less who you are. Besides we all know you would have taken a week off of work and dedicated that time to writting a manifesto with links to my every comment it were true... and put it in your footer!! lol
I am starting to believe what SUCK IT is saying about you. Check the shells in your gun again and get some rest, You are a sick person, DJ.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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You did the same thing to me and tried to get my identity and have me fired from my job (for god knows what, lols), but you just weren't good enough to get the job done. If you could have, you would have.
Oh, go cry us a river, DJ. I did no such thing, not my style. We are not all like you, I could care less who you are. Besides we all know you would have taken a week off of work and dedicated that time to writting a manifesto with links to my every comment it were true... and put it in your footer!! lol
I am starting to believe what SUCK IT is saying about you. Check the shells in your gun again and get some rest, You are a sick person, DJ.
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Are you talking about the communist manifesto Whooter? :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao: :roflmao:
lol, No I dont think he is that bad.
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Joel, he's just throwing a hissy because he is desperate to avoid his own statement that he has "a fiduciary interest" in Aspen Education, but tries to pass himself off as "just a regular parent with no ties to the TTI."
He said "fiduciary interest" not me. I just linked to it and he's been having a fit ever since. He always squeals the loudest when you repost that quote because his phony story gets all shot to hell - no pun intended ; )
Click on the link below to see it in Whooter's own post.
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Joel, he's just throwing a hissy because he is desperate to avoid his own statement that he has "a fiduciary interest" in Aspen Education, but tries to pass himself off as "just a regular parent with no ties to the TTI."
He said "fiduciary interest" not me. I just linked to it and he's been having a fit ever since. He always squeals the loudest when you repost that quote because his phony story gets all shot to hell - no pun intended ; )
Click on the link below to see it in Whooter's own post.
fiduciary interest, wow those words really bug you, dont they. Whats the other one.... "Children are products" lol. I am such an evil person to think that and use fiduciary interest in a sentence.
Who is having the fit? They are not in my footer are they? lol
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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The guy who use to post under the username "Odie", claimed to have been getting threatening phone calls, as well. He said that he had to move out of his neighborhood. He was a former daytop staff member who had a falling out.
Paul
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Here Whooter claims to have intimate knowledge of an impending deal for AEG to buy HLA. He says he can't discuss it due to his fiduciary interest (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976) and that it would be considered "tipping" if he did.
Definition of "Fiduciary Interest": n : legal term; assigned responsibility to act on behalf of an owner or owners in their best financial interest. When an individual represents a party or a group in a position of trust or confidence, it is that person’s duty to act primarily for the benefit of the party or group he/she represents. A fiduciary duty compels one to make decisions that are in the best financial interest of to the party represented.
Let me ask you, Whooter, how does "just a regular parent with no ties to the TTI" have a fiduciary interest in a transaction between two TTI entities that is so intimate to the deal that speaking about it would constitute tipping? Exactly which party to this deal were you representing? Which owner assigned you this responsibility?
Were you fibbing when you were bragging about this intimate knowledge and inability to speak of it due to your "fiduciary interest," or were you fibbing when you said you have "no ties to the TTI"? Obviusly, these statements are mutually exclusive and both cannot be true. So just tell us which one you have been shining us on about for the last five years.
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lol, you really work hard at this, DJ. Here are some other possibilities to think about:
If I had a family member who owned a law firm that was asked to investigate the possible take over of one company by another then I would not be able to speak about it. I would have a fiduciary responsibility. Fiduciary is a loyalty.
If you had a friend who talked to you about an investigation he was actively involved in (in a professional capacity) he may ask you for your loyalty not to speak openly about it until it had passed. If you accepted this and continued with the conversation then you would have a fiduciary responsibility towards him.
If I had a friend who were involved in the takeover of another company and he spoke to me about the details of the plan then I could be sued if I discussed it openly and I would also have a fiduciary duty to this person not to disclose any details and to hold the trust.
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Would you mind just answering the question?
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As we all know already, none of those scenarios you just blathered constitute a fiduciary responsibility. What you described would be breaches of trust between you and the person who already failed their fiduciary duty by leaking information to you and causing financial harm to the owner and having no legal bearing upon you whatsoever.
Fiduciary Responsibility = legal term: "assigned responsibility to act on behalf of an owner or owners in their best financial interest."
What you described involves third parties who may or may not have this duty, but you, if you are only an outlier to the legal enjoinder as you just laid out, cannot possibly have a fiduciary duty in the deal.
You either lied or you were assigned by a principal to work the deal. Which is it? You either have a fiduciary duty or you are not financially involved in the TTI. You have claimed both. One (or conceivably both) is a lie. They simply cannot both be true.
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lol, I think it bugs you that you are the one who lined his pockets with TTI money for years and now you desperately want to dirty up other people.
Here ya go:
A fiduciary duty is a legal or ethical relationship of confidence or trust between two or more parties, most commonly a fiduciary and a principal.
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Here Whooter claims to have intimate knowledge of an impending deal for AEG to buy HLA. He says he can't discuss it due to his fiduciary interest (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976) and that it would be considered "tipping" if he did.
Definition of "Fiduciary Interest": n : legal term; assigned responsibility to act on behalf of an owner or owners in their best financial interest. When an individual represents a party or a group in a position of trust or confidence, it is that person’s duty to act primarily for the benefit of the party or group he/she represents. A fiduciary duty compels one to make decisions that are in the best financial interest of to the party represented.
Let me ask you, Whooter, how does "just a regular parent with no ties to the TTI" have a fiduciary interest in a transaction between two TTI entities that is so intimate to the deal that speaking about it would constitute tipping? Exactly which party to this deal were you representing? Which owner assigned you this responsibility?
Were you fibbing when you were bragging about this intimate knowledge and inability to speak of it due to your "fiduciary interest," or were you fibbing when you said you have "no ties to the TTI"? Obviusly, these statements are mutually exclusive and both cannot be true. So just tell us which one you have been shining us on about for the last five years.
Sorry, but the definition of fiduciary responsibility is very clear and it is a legal definition, as posted above. To have a fiduciary responsibility, one must be a direct representative of the principal or principal's group, assigned to act in their best financial interest.
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Its a little difficult to try to tell someone else what they meant, but keep working at it if you like
Here ya go:
A fiduciary duty is a legal or ethical relationship of confidence or trust between two or more parties, most commonly a fiduciary and a principal.
Link to Definition (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiduciary)
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Lols. You seem to have forgotten to post the full definition that you are relying upon Wikipedia for:
"Fiduciary duty is a legal or ethical relationship of confidence or trust between two or more parties, most commonly a fiduciary and a principal. One party...holds a fiduciary relation or acts in a fiduciary capacity to another, such as one whose funds are entrusted to it for investment."
You claimed to be the fiduciary (the one who has "fiduciary responsibility"), also commonly called the agent, so which one of the TTI entities, AEG or HLA was your principal? Were you an agent of AEG or an agent of HLA? It's a simple question, Mr. Business School Dropout.
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Lols. You seem to have forgotten to post the full definition that you are relying upon Wikipedia for:
"Fiduciary duty is a legal or ethical relationship of confidence or trust between two or more parties, most commonly a fiduciary and a principal. One party...holds a fiduciary relation or acts in a fiduciary capacity to another, such as one whose funds are entrusted to it for investment."
You claimed to be the fiduciary (the one who has "fiduciary responsibility"), also commonly called the agent, so which one of the TTI entities, AEG or HLA was your principal? Were you an agent of AEG or an agent of HLA? It's a simple question, Mr. Business School Dropout.
A fiduciary "duty" which is a legal or ethical relationship...... (this is correct)...... such as one whose funds are entrusted to it for investment.". "Such as" (this means an example) . No one entrusted me or did I entrust anyone else with funds to invest.
In my case I was entrusted with knowledge that there were events in process and I had a "fiduciary duty" which prevented me from talking about it openly on the forum because I had a relationship with this person. I believe I stated this clearly in the original post.
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Here Whooter claims to have intimate knowledge of an impending deal for AEG to buy HLA. He says he can't discuss it due to his fiduciary interest (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976) and that it would be considered "tipping" if he did.
Definition of "Fiduciary Interest": n : legal term; assigned responsibility to act on behalf of an owner or owners in their best financial interest. When an individual represents a party or a group in a position of trust or confidence, it is that person’s duty to act primarily for the benefit of the party or group he/she represents. A fiduciary duty compels one to make decisions that are in the best financial interest of to the party represented.
Let me ask you, Whooter, how does "just a regular parent with no ties to the TTI" have a fiduciary interest in a transaction between two TTI entities that is so intimate to the deal that speaking about it would constitute tipping? Exactly which party to this deal were you representing? Which owner assigned you this responsibility?
Were you fibbing when you were bragging about this intimate knowledge and inability to speak of it due to your "fiduciary interest," or were you fibbing when you said you have "no ties to the TTI"? Obviusly, these statements are mutually exclusive and both cannot be true. So just tell us which one you have been shining us on about for the last five years.
Sorry, but the definition of fiduciary responsibility is very clear and it is a legal definition, as posted above. To have a fiduciary responsibility, one must be a direct representative of the principal or principal's group, assigned to act in their best financial interest.
In order to have "fiduciary responsibility" one must be an agent (i.e. a fiduciary) who has been entrusted with the property or finances of the principal. It's a really simple concept.
And it has a legal definition: fiduciary "An individual in whom another has placed the utmost trust and confidence to manage and protect property or money."
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In my case is wasnt, I was entrusted with knowledge, thats all.
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Would you mind just answering the question?
:bump:
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Legal Definition from US Legal (http://http://definitions.uslegal.com/f/fiduciary-duty/): "Fiduciary duty is a legal requirement of loyalty and care that applies to any person or organization that has a fiduciary relationship with another person or organization. A fiduciary is a person, committee, or organization that has agreed to accept legal ownership or control and management of an asset or group of assets belonging to someone else."
So then you lied about your fiduciary interest. That wasn't too hard to admit. You wanted to inflate your ego and make yourself seem important, so you made up a story that had you in the lead role as fiduciary to Aspen Education. Or you're lying as to the extent of your involvement now.
Either way, the point is made. You're a phony. And it only took you all of five long years to finally admit it. Yeah, you're real honest, Whooter.
What else have you been fibbing about?
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Its a little difficult to try to tell someone else what they meant, but keep working at it if you like.
Here ya go:
A fiduciary duty is a legal or ethical relationship of confidence or trust between two or more parties, most commonly a fiduciary and a principal.
Link to Definition (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiduciary)
I was trusted with knowledge which prevented me from speaking about it at the time. If you remember back to previous discussions, you struggled a little with interpreting definitions in the dictionary. If you look at the definition I presented and the way I interpret it you will understand what I meant by fiduciary duty.
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You struggled with using a dictionary. You cited Wikipedia. I cited a legal dictionary. Big difference.
Anyway, the point is made. You are a phony.
"No, officer, that's not my fiduciary duty. I'm just holding it for a friend!" :rasta:
Some people love to pretend like they know about business law (among other things), but when you get down to the brass tacks, they are just plain old posers.
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You struggled with using a dictionary. You cited Wikipedia. I cited a legal dictionary. Big difference.
Anyway, the point is made. You are a phony.
"No, officer, that's not my fiduciary duty. I'm just holding it for a friend!" :rasta:
Some people love to pretend like they know about business law (among other things), but when you get down to the brass tacks, they are just plain old posers.
If we were discussing what "someone else" said and we didnt have the opportunity to ask what they meant then we could argue over definitions and which one applied.
But I made the statement, I told you what I meant and provided a definition for you to see. If you want to go off and find a definition that fits what you want to hear, that's fine. but if people want to know what I meant then they can ask me.
You received your answer and you dont like it because it means you are the one who lined his pockets with TTI money all those years... not me. This has bugged you for years but it is something you have to live with.
sorry buddy.....
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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I told you what I meant
Nobody gives a damn what you now say you meant then.
What you said then makes you a phony now.
it's no different from when you said your daughter ran away and stopped talking to you for two years and drank and did drugs constantly after ASR then you come back later and say it never happened. Too late. You can't clean up these messes.
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I told you what I meant
Nobody gives a damn what you now say you meant then.
What you said then makes you a phony now.
it's no different from when you said your daughter ran away and stopped talking to you for two years and drank and did drugs constantly after ASR then you come back later and say it never happened. Too late. You can't clean up these messes.
Ha,Ha,Ha calm down, DJ, sorry you failed to make it look like I took money from the industry like you did. You need to stand alone on that one.
Hmmm...You have such a drive to discredit people.......
Next on your list:
So now you think my daughter ran away and stopped talking to me for two years? So you failed on your last attempt with the whole fiduciary post. Lets see what you have on my daughter then. (What happen to the thought that I was Reuben and I had 2 sons and one committed suicide? lol) We can get to that later I guess. Lets see your link to where I spoke about my daughter running away and stopped talking to me for two years first... If you work at this long enough, DJ, you may actually find conflicting statements!
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Hey DJ and Whooter, why don't we have some boundries here, lets leave your children out of these posts.
Sometimes we posts comments about our kids, I don't believe that then we can use this information to take swipes at the poster.
Just say'in
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Hey Whooter,
One more time please, would you with absolute clarity explain what you meant by this statement, If I may be
frank, I am a little confused myself.
I run a medium size business, I have fiduciary responsibilities as others within my company, we also have the same fiduciary commitments to our customers, I have always assumed that we were talking about finances and loyality to those financial agreements/contracts.
I can only hope that you comment on this post, you are under no commitment to do so but it would go a long way to clearing this up once and for all, for me.
Here is the comment I am talking about,
"I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as “Tippingâ€".
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Hey Whooter,
One more time please, would you with absolute clarity explain what you meant by this statement, If I may be
frank, I am a little confused myself.
I run a medium size business, I have fiduciary responsibilities as others within my company, we also have the same fiduciary commitments to our customers, I have always assumed that we were talking about finances and loyality to those financial agreements/contracts.
I can only hope that you comment on this post, you are under no commitment to do so but it would go a long way to clearing this up once and for all, for me.
Here is the comment I am talking about,
"I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as “Tippingâ€".
The easiest way to explain it is I was privy to inside information. My relationship with that person and the fact that they asked me to keep it between ourselves was why I could not speak about it or comment on it.
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I run a medium size business, I have fiduciary responsibilities as others within my company, we also have the same fiduciary commitments to our customers, I have always assumed that we were talking about finances and loyality to those financial agreements/contracts.
You're absolutely correct, Danny. Fiduciary duty extends only to fiduciarires (often called agents) who control the money or property of principals (often called clients or beneficiaries). As you correctly pointed out, only agents of a firm/client can have fiduciary responsibilities to that firm/client.
What Whooter is trying to make people believe is that uninterested third parties can have fiduciary duties to other agents who have fiduciary responsibilities to principals to which the uninterested party has no relationship. That's false and utterly ridiculous.
Keep in mind that Whooter claims his line of work to be acquiring businesses, turning them around and selling them. He knows full well that his description of fiduciary duty is false and anyone with any exposure to business law knows that (like you and me, Danny).
Also keep in mind, this was said at a time when one of the principals, HLA, was going under financially, a perfect target for a man in Whooter's line of work. Then also don't forget that Whooter claimed a fiduciary duty in the possible deal between these two TTI firms, indicating he works directly for a principal. We know he didn't work for HLA, so that leaves AEG. Cut and dried.
Whooter's claims now that he has no connections to the TTI just don't make any sense to anyone with even a single working brain cell. Especially when he used to brag about how connected he was like when he claimed to chair a statistical group to assess the safety of TBSs in Chicago which he then later claimed he was "never in Chicago," but of course his post bragging about it was linked to and quoted already. He also claimed to advise his colleagues "where the real money is, the TBS industry" (also quoted and linked in this thread). Let's also not forget that he claimed to have access to client treatment records from HLA also and tried to out the identity of another poster who went to HLA by name and also claimed this boy's treatment records revealed "gay issues."
Where does a person with "no connection to the TTI" get all this inside information, Danny? Whooter is just simply so arrogant that he thinks people like you (Fornits posters) are just too stupid to put these pieces together, or that he can wiggle out of it by attacking those posters using multiple logins to rat pack them and try to impugn their credibility while never having to answer their allegations (you have seen him pull out a dozen or so sockpuppets recently to do just this). Worse for Whooter, it's all in his own words. So he either was making up stories when he was bragging about his TTI connections and involvement then or he's lying about them now. Either way, it proves what everyone here already knows - he's a complete fraud and phony.
So, Danny, I know you haven't been here long enough to know all this documented history about Whooter, but I hope you can at least look at him with a critical eye, insofar as he is obviously lying about what constitutes a fiduciary duty and you, being a business owner, know that he's lying. This is why he says "The easiest way to explain it is..." Because he knows the honest way to explain it is the far harder way and would destroy his persona he created for program damage control. Let's be real - if the explanation of this statement were so simple, why has Whooter spent five years strictly avoiding it?
Don't let him pull the wool over your eyes, Danny. He's not who he wants you to believe he is. And it has been proven beyond any shadow of a doubt time and time again, in his own words.
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Would you mind just answering the question?
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Anne, he already posted a lame, fake, phony non-starter "answer" that has been fully debunked by Danny (and me). Danny is a small business owner and even he knows full well that what Whooter is using for an excuse does not a fiduciary duty make. We all know this duty is solely between an agent and a principal and that there is no possibility that an uninterested third party can have this duty.
Look, if what Whooter said were true, then every reporter in this country who ever got an inside tip and published it, like they do every single day, would be sued for breach of fiduciary duty. Obviously, this has never happened and will never happen.
His "explanation" is ludicrous. And five years too late to have any credibility whatsoever. Sorry, but the die has been cast and he can't backpedal out now. He's a phnoy and FOS.
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Anne, he already posted a lame, fake, phony non-starter "answer" that has been fully debunked by Danny (and me). Danny is a small business owner and even he knows full well that what Whooter is using for an excuse does not a fiduciary duty make. We all know this duty is solely between an agent and a principal and that there is no possibility that an uninterested third party can have this duty.
Look, if what Whooter said were true, then every reporter in this country who ever got an inside tip and published it, like they do every single day, would be sued for breach of fiduciary duty. Obviously, this has never happened and will never happen.
His "explanation" is ludicrous. And five years too late to have any credibility whatsoever. Sorry, but the die has been cast and he can't backpedal out now. He's a phnoy and FOS.
Oh, as you know, I'm well aware of his tactics. I just like to keep asking him because every time he dodges the question, it makes him look like even more of a weasel than he already does. Especially when the question comes from someone who, for the most part, stays out of the fray of these 'debates'.
He absolutely will not answer the direct question, because he knows what it'll do to whatever is left of his credibility and damage his attempts at damage control for the industry.
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Anne, he already posted a lame, fake, phony non-starter "answer" that has been fully debunked by Danny (and me). Danny is a small business owner and even he knows full well that what Whooter is using for an excuse does not a fiduciary duty make. We all know this duty is solely between an agent and a principal and that there is no possibility that an uninterested third party can have this duty.
Look, if what Whooter said were true, then every reporter in this country who ever got an inside tip and published it, like they do every single day, would be sued for breach of fiduciary duty. Obviously, this has never happened and will never happen.
His "explanation" is ludicrous. And five years too late to have any credibility whatsoever. Sorry, but the die has been cast and he can't backpedal out now. He's a phnoy and FOS.
Oh, as you know, I'm well aware of his tactics. I just like to keep asking him because every time he dodges the question, it makes him look like even more of a weasel than he already does. Especially when the question comes from someone who, for the most part, stays out of the fray of these 'debates'.
He absolutely will not answer the direct question, because he knows what it'll do to whatever is left of his credibility and damage his attempts at damage control for the industry.
Damage control? Not sure I see any, but let me know when you do. I am ready to give it a shot. As far as answering the question I responded a few times here in this thread. I think most people know that I respond to almost any posts (even in areas where I dont have much knowledge as someone pointed out lol).
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Anne, he already posted a lame, fake, phony non-starter "answer" that has been fully debunked by Danny (and me). Danny is a small business owner and even he knows full well that what Whooter is using for an excuse does not a fiduciary duty make. We all know this duty is solely between an agent and a principal and that there is no possibility that an uninterested third party can have this duty.
Look, if what Whooter said were true, then every reporter in this country who ever got an inside tip and published it, like they do every single day, would be sued for breach of fiduciary duty. Obviously, this has never happened and will never happen.
His "explanation" is ludicrous. And five years too late to have any credibility whatsoever. Sorry, but the die has been cast and he can't backpedal out now. He's a phony and FOS.
As stated prior, Whooter's attempt to wiggle out of his financial involvement in kiddie jails is a failure. Cat's out of the bag.
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Anne, he already posted a lame, fake, phony non-starter "answer" that has been fully debunked by Danny (and me). Danny is a small business owner and even he knows full well that what Whooter is using for an excuse does not a fiduciary duty make. We all know this duty is solely between an agent and a principal and that there is no possibility that an uninterested third party can have this duty.
Look, if what Whooter said were true, then every reporter in this country who ever got an inside tip and published it, like they do every single day, would be sued for breach of fiduciary duty. Obviously, this has never happened and will never happen.
His "explanation" is ludicrous. And five years too late to have any credibility whatsoever. Sorry, but the die has been cast and he can't backpedal out now. He's a phony and FOS.
As stated prior, Whooter's attempt to wiggle out of his financial involvement in kiddie jails is a failure. Cat's out of the bag.
I am sorry this gives you so much heartburn DJ, but you "did" asked the question and I answered it, but apparently (by your response) it wasn't the answer you wanted. I don't have any financial involvement in the industry, never did. I gave you my answer and backed it up with a definition of the words I used. Its your right to believe it or not. Its actually one of the strengths of the open forum system and allows for some very intense discussions on various subjects. This one seems to be very personal with you but it doesn't matter either way how you feel about me nor does it effect my perspective on the industry.
Maybe you should think about keeping this fiduciary issue as part of your footer for some time longer. This may help you to get past the personal grip this subject has on you. If you have any further questions feel free to ask and I will continue to do my best to answer them, as long as you are civil.
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No sense trying to cover it up. Your explanation is "up is down an black is white." You got caught in another whopper. You either are a fiduciary, in which case you lied about your TTI involvement or you're not and you lied about it to make yourself seem important.
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No sense trying to cover it up. Your explanation is "up is down an black is white." You got caught in another whopper. You either are a fiduciary, in which case you lied about your TTI involvement or you're not and you lied about it to make yourself seem important.
Yes, Seems we agree here finally. I had a fiduciary Duty which I upheld by not disclosing the knowledge entrusted to me. I sense that this burns you because this isolates you as the only one who lined their pockets for years with TTI money. Your efforts to include me in your industry has fallen by the wayside.
I think this has been a good discussion so far, though, DJ. You have managed to keep your temper down and disbanded with the name calling.
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Hey Whooter,
One more time please, would you with absolute clarity explain what you meant by this statement, If I may be
frank, I am a little confused myself.
I run a medium size business, I have fiduciary responsibilities as others within my company, we also have the same fiduciary commitments to our customers, I have always assumed that we were talking about finances and loyality to those financial agreements/contracts.
I can only hope that you comment on this post, you are under no commitment to do so but it would go a long way to clearing this up once and for all, for me.
Here is the comment I am talking about,
"I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as “Tippingâ€".
Thanks, Danny, for exposing this phony to the light of day. I wouldn't go for his explanation either. You showed with that quote and your explanation that he claimed to act as a broker in a possible sale of one program to another. His words, not yours. Why he would claim to be AEG's broker then claim he has "no ties to the TTI" is beyond reason.
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You spend so much time and effort discrediting a poster you also claim nobody takes seriously, so what is the purpose if you really believe that? Surely you have better things to do on a holiday weekend than discredit someone in a thread nobody will read. Or maybe this is a pressure valve of hatred left over from your personal life, in that case thank Whooter. :timeout:
I wouldnt be too hard on DJ, it allows him to purge his anger and this is probably good for him. He is working overtime to try to place me next to himself as one who lined his pockets with TTI money. But he cant make it stick because he is the only one who took money from them and it bugs the crap out of him. Its fun to watch though.
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Hey Whooter,
One more time please, would you with absolute clarity explain what you meant by this statement, If I may be
frank, I am a little confused myself.
I run a medium size business, I have fiduciary responsibilities as others within my company, we also have the same fiduciary commitments to our customers, I have always assumed that we were talking about finances and loyality to those financial agreements/contracts.
I can only hope that you comment on this post, you are under no commitment to do so but it would go a long way to clearing this up once and for all, for me.
Here is the comment I am talking about,
"I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as “Tippingâ€".
You seem to have hit it on the head, Danny.
Legal Definition from US Legal: "Fiduciary duty is a legal requirement of loyalty and care that applies to any person or organization that has a fiduciary relationship with another person or organization. A fiduciary is a person, committee, or organization that has agreed to accept legal ownership or control and management of an asset or group of assets belonging to someone else."
Whooter said he was the fiduciary, therefore he was brokering the deal.
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You spend so much time and effort discrediting a poster you also claim nobody takes seriously, so what is the purpose if you really believe that? Surely you have better things to do on a holiday weekend than discredit someone in a thread nobody will read. Or maybe this is a pressure valve of hatred left over from your personal life, in that case thank Whooter. :timeout:
I wouldnt be too hard on DJ, it allows him to purge his anger and this is probably good for him. He is working overtime to try to place me next to himself as one who lined his pockets with TTI money. But he cant make it stick because he is the only one who took money from them and it bugs the crap out of him. Its fun to watch though.
lol
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Oh no!!! Now I am brokering deals? lol
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That's what fiduciaries (also known as agents or brokers) do. And you claimed to be one. Not too hard to connect the dots.
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That's what fiduciaries (also known as agents or brokers) do. And you claimed to be one. Not too hard to connect the dots.
Oh No!!! Now I am a secret agent who is brokering deals!!! I hope I get one of those Bond girls! Ha,Ha,Ha... DJ that is funny.
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Now I am a secret agent who is brokering deals
Correction: Not-so-secret agent (aka fiduciary, the bearer of fiduciary duty). You're the one who claimed to be a fiduciary in the prospective deal. I just pointed it out and quoted you. Now you're madly gyrating to downplay your words.
I'll just link back to it again if you forgot what you claimed then which is vastly different from what you claim now, as Danny rightly pointed out. I personally think he got you on this one, Whooter. If you're trying to refute what Danny is saying, just take it up with him. ;)
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That's what fiduciaries (also known as agents or brokers) do. And you claimed to be one. Not too hard to connect the dots.
Correction:
Oh No!!! Now I am a Not-so secret agent who is brokering deals!!! I hope I get one of those Bond girls! Ha,Ha,Ha... DJ that is funny.
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I see you're avoiding Danny's statements and trying to shift the focus to me. I think Danny really got your number and now you're just avoiding his comments. Trying to make jokes doesn't change what you said or that Danny called you out.
Hey Whooter,
One more time please, would you with absolute clarity explain what you meant by this statement, If I may be
frank, I am a little confused myself.
I run a medium size business, I have fiduciary responsibilities as others within my company, we also have the same fiduciary commitments to our customers, I have always assumed that we were talking about finances and loyality to those financial agreements/contracts.
Don't let him try to fool you , Danno. Confusion is his game.
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Sorry, DJ. You can get Danny involved, if you like, in you search for background dirt. Bring it on. Like I said I have the admins here lay out my posts several times for all to see and when it came time to have your guest posts tied to your user name you tucked tail and ran each time. We both know who is being open here.
I am sure you can find some posts where I contradicted myself if you keep looking, since I wrote over 4,000 I believe between thewho and whooter. But since you are having such a hard time finding inconsistencies all these years tells you that I am being honest. You on the other hand hide in the shadows and throw stones and that is why I dont have any respect for you.
I have been open all along and have had my user-names exposed and all my guest posts strung together and tied to my user names every time I was asked. You continue to hide from this and keep your guest posts hidden, which is fine and your choice.
You will never be able to tie me to the TTI because I am not associated with it. Nothing you can do about it unless you make something up. You on the other hand benefited financially from it and that bothers you for some reason. But I just cant help you out with that, sorry DJ.
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Here Whooter claims to have intimate knowledge of an impending deal for AEG to buy HLA. He says he can't discuss it due to his fiduciary interest (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976) and that it would be considered "tipping" if he did.
Definition of "Fiduciary Interest": n : legal term; assigned responsibility to act on behalf of an owner or owners in their best financial interest. When an individual represents a party or a group in a position of trust or confidence, it is that person’s duty to act primarily for the benefit of the party or group he/she represents. A fiduciary duty compels one to make decisions that are in the best financial interest of to the party represented.
Let me ask you, Whooter, how does "just a regular parent with no ties to the TTI" have a fiduciary interest in a transaction between two TTI entities that is so intimate to the deal that speaking about it would constitute tipping? Exactly which party to this deal were you representing? Which owner assigned you this responsibility?
Were you fibbing when you were bragging about this intimate knowledge and inability to speak of it due to your "fiduciary interest," or were you fibbing when you said you have "no ties to the TTI"? Obviusly, these statements are mutually exclusive and both cannot be true. So just tell us which one you have been shining us on about for the last five years.
It's no work for me. You tied you to the TTI (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976). I just quoted you.
Danny also called you on it. Not sure how anyone could see that as me "digging dirt" on Danny. He also just quoted you and commented about your statement that you were a fiduciary to AEG.
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Sorry, DJ. You can get Danny involved, if you like, in you search for background dirt. Bring it on. Like I said I have the admins here lay out my posts several times for all to see and when it came time to have your guest posts tied to your user name you tucked tail and ran each time. We both know who is being open here.
I am sure you can find some posts where I contradicted myself if you keep looking, since I wrote over 4,000 I believe between thewho and whooter. But since you are having such a hard time finding inconsistencies all these years tells you that I am being honest. You on the other hand hide in the shadows and throw stones and that is why I dont have any respect for you.
I have been open all along and have had my user-names exposed and all my guest posts strung together and tied to my user names every time I was asked. You continue to hide from this and keep your guest posts hidden, which is fine and your choice.
You will never be able to tie me to the TTI because I am not associated with it. Nothing you can do about it unless you make something up. You on the other hand benefited financially from it and that bothers you for some reason. But I just cant help you out with that, sorry DJ.
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It's no work for me. You tied you to the TTI (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976). I just quoted you.
Danny also called you on it. Not sure how anyone could see that as me "digging dirt" on Danny. He also just quoted you and commented about your statement that you were a fiduciary to AEG.
There it is again. It still says you were a fiduciary to a deal between two programs. Just click the link. It's not my fault you volunteered this information.
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Sorry, DJ. You can get Danny involved, if you like, in you search for background dirt. Bring it on. Like I said I have the admins here lay out my posts several times for all to see and when it came time to have your guest posts tied to your user name you tucked tail and ran each time. We both know who is being open here.
I am sure you can find some posts where I contradicted myself if you keep looking, since I wrote over 4,000 I believe between thewho and whooter. But since you are having such a hard time finding inconsistencies all these years tells you that I am being honest. You on the other hand hide in the shadows and throw stones and that is why I dont have any respect for you.
I have been open all along and have had my user-names exposed and all my guest posts strung together and tied to my user names every time I was asked. You continue to hide from this and keep your guest posts hidden, which is fine and your choice.
You will never be able to tie me to the TTI because I am not associated with it. Nothing you can do about it unless you make something up. You on the other hand benefited financially from it and that bothers you for some reason. But I just cant help you out with that, sorry DJ.
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Whoops there it is again!! lol Not my fault
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It's no work for me. You tied you to the TTI (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976). I just quoted you.
Danny also called you on it. Not sure how anyone could see that as me "digging dirt" on Danny. He also just quoted you and commented about your statement that you were a fiduciary to AEG.
There it is again. It still says you were a fiduciary to a deal between two programs. Just click the link. It's not my fault you volunteered this information.
It's not going to change just because you try to post the last word compulsively. It's ^^right there^^ with your signature on it. "Fiduciary interest" in AEG trying to buy HLA.
Maybe you shouldn't say things like this if you don't want everyone else to know it. Jes' sayin'.
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Sorry, DJ. You can get Danny involved, if you like, in you search for background dirt. Bring it on. Like I said I have the admins here lay out my posts several times for all to see and when it came time to have your guest posts tied to your user name you tucked tail and ran each time. We both know who is being open here.
I am sure you can find some posts where I contradicted myself if you keep looking, since I wrote over 4,000 I believe between thewho and whooter. But since you are having such a hard time finding inconsistencies all these years tells you that I am being honest. You on the other hand hide in the shadows and throw stones and that is why I dont have any respect for you.
I have been open all along and have had my user-names exposed and all my guest posts strung together and tied to my user names every time I was asked. You continue to hide from this and keep your guest posts hidden, which is fine and your choice.
You will never be able to tie me to the TTI because I am not associated with it. Nothing you can do about it unless you make something up. You on the other hand benefited financially from it and that bothers you for some reason. But I just cant help you out with that, sorry DJ.
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Whoops there it is again!! lol Not my fault
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You tied you to the TTI (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976). I just quoted you.
I just clinked the link to your post and it states clearly you have a financial skin in the TTI game. Can't avoid your own claims now, can you? Take care, Champ. I'm sure it will still be there next time we check back.
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Sorry, DJ. You can get Danny involved, if you like, in you search for background dirt. Bring it on. Like I said I have the admins here lay out my posts several times for all to see and when it came time to have your guest posts tied to your user name you tucked tail and ran each time. We both know who is being open here.
I am sure you can find some posts where I contradicted myself if you keep looking, since I wrote over 4,000 I believe between thewho and whooter. But since you are having such a hard time finding inconsistencies all these years tells you that I am being honest. You on the other hand hide in the shadows and throw stones and that is why I dont have any respect for you.
I have been open all along and have had my user-names exposed and all my guest posts strung together and tied to my user names every time I was asked. You continue to hide from this and keep your guest posts hidden, which is fine and your choice.
You will never be able to tie me to the TTI because I am not associated with it. Nothing you can do about it unless you make something up. You on the other hand benefited financially from it and that bothers you for some reason. But I just cant help you out with that, sorry DJ.
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Whoops there it is again!! Not my fault
lol
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I have been open all along and have had my user-names exposed and all my guest posts strung together and tied to my user names every time I was asked.
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You keep sayin' that, but somehow you never actually do it. :rofl: I believe you had it done one time and that's where all these quotes I am posting came from. That was five years ago. You have A LOT of anon posts and usernames since then that you seem to want to keep secret.
Another option is to ask fornits admins to list out our user names (and string together past anon posts)and post them publicly. I have done this upon request a few times before and am willing to do it again, if it interests you (I have nothing to hide).
Why, yes, it does interest me. Please have it done right away, as you just offered to do. I'll be glad to see the results straight away.
That was several days ago and you keep repeating it. Still waiting...
You keep saying you're open and you're glad to do it, but it never happens, does it? I guess it's you that is "tucking tail and running" huh? Git 'er done, boy! Unless of course you're fibbing about that too! :deal: :jamin:
Now that's two items that won't go away (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976), but I have time, and so I will wait for you to deliver what you said you would. You volunteered, so put up or shut up.
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John are you still really playing this game? I thought for sure by now after having been exposed and humiliated time and time again you would have learned your lesson.
Some people just always have to try and ice skate up hill I guess.
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I see you're avoiding Danny's statements and trying to shift the focus to me. I think Danny really got your number and now you're just avoiding his comments. Trying to make jokes doesn't change what you said or that Danny called you out.
Hey Whooter,
One more time please, would you with absolute clarity explain what you meant by this statement, If I may be
frank, I am a little confused myself.
I run a medium size business, I have fiduciary responsibilities as others within my company, we also have the same fiduciary commitments to our customers, I have always assumed that we were talking about finances and loyality to those financial agreements/contracts.
Don't let him try to fool you , Danno. Confusion is his game.
Thanks DJ, I am not confused at all when it comes to Whooter. I understand that one or two things are happening here, 1) he used the word out of context and being the intellectual he is does not want to admit this or 2) he had a responsibility in brokering the deal between the TTI's.
Now in either case I really don't have a problem for two reasons, 1) everyone has a ego and they can get caught up in it, especially they way he has been misaligned here (not necessarily saying this as a judgment, just a fact of the situation)he could find himself in a double bind here...lol, 2) Well in my opinion everyone has to make a living, so brokering deals is just as good as any other, ya know DJ he could have just stumbled across Fornits in his background investigation for the customer, went to Chicago for more information and thrown in his daughter to make it all look legitimate, so he can keep posting here with some legitimacy, I don't know.
Maybe there is a third reason, he is a father of daughter who went to a program, does broker deals as a source of income, stumbled unto a deal for TTI's and went to Chicago to do background work for the sale. (There is no way he can even discuss this here or imply this anymore if it is true, for many legal reasons, as you know.)
I have my idea of what is happening here and the sad thing, he is under non-disclosure agreements that if he broke them he would be out of business.
So we can keep talking about this until the cows come home, he can't say anymore then he has. That is just my opinion.
Now do I think he fucked up, yes big time, you don't infer what he has without elaboration, especially on a site such as this. Your just asking for the shit he has been put through and will be put through.
Does he have a daughter that went through a program, I hope so because to make up a story as such to distract attention away from the original issues would be very sad.
These have been some of my thoughts on the issue.
Maybe in the end we find out Whooter got carried away with his words, as we all do at times and can't seem to take them back, right now.
Sounds shallow Whooter, just guessing don't take to much offense.
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I see you're avoiding Danny's statements and trying to shift the focus to me. I think Danny really got your number and now you're just avoiding his comments. Trying to make jokes doesn't change what you said or that Danny called you out.
Hey Whooter,
One more time please, would you with absolute clarity explain what you meant by this statement, If I may be
frank, I am a little confused myself.
I run a medium size business, I have fiduciary responsibilities as others within my company, we also have the same fiduciary commitments to our customers, I have always assumed that we were talking about finances and loyality to those financial agreements/contracts.
Don't let him try to fool you , Danno. Confusion is his game.
Thanks DJ, I am not confused at all when it comes to Whooter. I understand that one or two things are happening here, 1) he used the word out of context and being the intellectual he is does not want to admit this or 2) he had a responsibility in brokering the deal between the TTI's.
Now in either case I really don't have a problem for two reasons, 1) everyone has a ego and they can get caught up in it, especially they way he has been misaligned here (not necessarily saying this as a judgment, just a fact of the situation)he could find himself in a double bind here...lol, 2) Well in my opinion everyone has to make a living, so brokering deals is just as good as any other, ya know DJ he could have just stumbled across Fornits in his background investigation for the customer, went to Chicago for more information and thrown in his daughter to make it all look legitimate, so he can keep posting here with some legitimacy, I don't know.
Maybe there is a third reason, he is a father of daughter who went to a program, does broker deals as a source of income, stumbled unto a deal for TTI's and went to Chicago to do background work for the sale. (There is no way he can even discuss this here or imply this anymore if it is true, for many legal reasons, as you know.)
I have my idea of what is happening here and the sad thing, he is under non-disclosure agreements that if he broke them he would be out of business.
So we can keep talking about this until the cows come home, he can't say anymore then he has. That is just my opinion.
Now do I think he fucked up, yes big time, you don't infer what he has without elaboration, especially on a site such as this. Your just asking for the shit he has been put through and will be put through.
Does he have a daughter that went through a program, I hope so because to make up a story as such to distract attention away from the original issues would be very sad.
These have been some of my thoughts on the issue.
Maybe in the end we find out Whooter got carried away with his words, as we all do at times and can't seem to take them back, right now.
Sounds shallow Whooter, just guessing don't take to much offense.
No offense taken Danny, your response was well thought out and open minded. Its good to see that some people can step back and look at all the many options and not get so caught up and angry over a persons every word. In the end it really doesnt matter, I know what I said and why I said it (as I explained). Everyone else is free to draw their own opinions.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Keep up the good work Whooter.
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Who cares if Whooter owns a dozen programs?
Would you just ask him out already?
Shit... enough of all this foreplay. :)
Paul
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I am not confused at all when it comes to Whooter. I understand that one or two things are happening here, 1) he used the word out of context and being the intellectual he is does not want to admit this or 2) he had a responsibility in brokering the deal between the TTI's.
I think you've hit on something here, Danny, although I would say "pseudo-intellectual."
In case #1 he doesn't even know what the term means, which indicates he has no business education or accumen and could not possibly run a business that buys and sells other businesses, as he claims to do for a living. In case #1, he's just a self-inflated phony trying to make others believe he is a VIP but failing miserably at it.
In case #2 he's lying wholesale about his role in the TTI which makes him a lying phony.
Thanks for poining out these two obvious conclusions. It's what I've been saying all along, only when you say it, Whooter accepts it, thus proving my point - he's a complete fake.
FWIW, the deal never happened and he would have no continuing duty as a broker anyway. So he could openly discuss everything about it without penalty of any sort. There's no confidentiality required for "The Deal That Never Was."
More Aliases, too?
Short story: TheWho = industry marketing drone / general asshole
The Who works in marketing and research in Newton Mass. His clients are unidentified, however they are suspected by his postings (who he defends) to be Aspen, or possibly NATSAP (or both). He admitted to having a fiduciary duty involving HLA (or it's acquisition) and is rumored to also go by the alias of David Sullivan. ( [email protected] )
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Ha,Ha,Ha keep working it. You are not even close, but it is fun to watch. How about working the whole John Reuben angle back into it. Try to figure out how he could broker deals and a run a non-profit... lol.
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I am not confused at all when it comes to Whooter. I understand that one or two things are happening here, 1) he used the word out of context and being the intellectual he is does not want to admit this or 2) he had a responsibility in brokering the deal between the TTI's.
I think you've hit on something here, Danny, although I would say "pseudo-intellectual."
In case #1 he doesn't even know what the term means, which indicates he has no business education or accumen and could not possibly run a business that buys and sells other businesses, as he claims to do for a living. In case #1, he's just a self-inflated phony trying to make others believe he is a VIP but failing miserably at it.
In case #2 he's lying wholesale about his role in the TTI which makes him a lying phony.
Thanks for poining out these two obvious conclusions. It's what I've been saying all along, only when you say it, Whooter accepts it, thus proving my point - he's a complete fake.
FWIW, the deal never happened and he would have no continuing duty as a broker anyway. So he could openly discuss everything about it without penalty of any sort. There's no confidentiality required for "The Deal That Never Was."
More Aliases, too?
Short story: TheWho = industry marketing drone / general asshole
The Who works in marketing and research in Newton Mass. His clients are unidentified, however they are suspected by his postings (who he defends) to be Aspen, or possibly NATSAP (or both). He admitted to having a fiduciary duty involving HLA (or it's acquisition) and is rumored to also go by the alias of David Sullivan. ( [email protected] )
No DJ, I think you may be wrong on your comment he can discuss past associations concerning acquisitions. He is under non-disclosure agreements, I'm sure. Also if they are still his customer they would really not appreciate him doing this. His fiduciary responsibilities are clearer now then before, if in fact he does work for a company in Newton, Ma. doing M&R, he would very much be held bound to ethical responsibilities concerning fiduciary directions. His team are the point men in any acquisition, so they are privy to costs, he just does not necessarily have any legal responsibility, though he still could get fired (blackballed) for breach of ethical standards.
This is all I am going to say about this subject because even though it goes to credibility of character, which I think could be argued forever, I don't have the bottom line evidence that you folks here are accusing him of....(yet).
Until that time I will go with his daughter was in a program, he likes the outcome of what his daughter learned so therefore wants to back programs, maybe also because of his excitement he went to work for a company that wants a true believer to help stick up for them and their programs. Big deal, at some point we have to deal with a different opinion.
Now one could say something similar about Ursus, look at the amount of time he is on here, the information he is able to get, the contacts he has..ect. Ursus has cultivated a entire data base of information against the TTI.
I would suspect that Ursus is either disabled, retired, being compensated by someone or thing or independently wealthy (trust fund baby). We don't think of this because he is speaking the language of fornits, which btw I have no problem with. I just don't see this inquiry going on with him.
DJ I have said this before there is always going to be a ying and yang, black and white, polar opposits....ect.
He happens to carry the opposite here.
I also don't have a problem with you holding him to the truth, Whooter has mislead folks with his earlier posts, why he does not just acknowledge this "I don't know". But keep the fire on DJ just maybe keep it at a lower flame, I don't know.
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Now one could say something similar about Ursus, look at the amount of time he is on here, the information he is able to get, the contacts he has..ect. Ursus has cultivated a entire data base of information against the TTI.
I would suspect that Ursus is either disabled, retired, being compensated by someone or thing or independently wealthy (trust fund baby). We don't think of this because he is speaking the language of fornits, which btw I have no problem with. I just don't see this inquiry going on with him.
DJ I have said this before there is always going to be a ying and yang, black and white, polar opposits....ect.
He happens to carry the opposite here.
I also don't have a problem with you holding him to the truth, Whooter has mislead folks with his earlier posts, why he does not just acknowledge this "I don't know". But keep the fire on DJ just maybe keep it at a lower flame, I don't know.
Just about everyone on fornits could be attacked for a past post or two or questioned about what they meant at the time or why they spend so much time here. As a random example we pressured DJ at one point about his academic requirements and he went off and started altering his posts from 5 years ago. So we could hold his feet to the fire for that, it just depends on what you want to spend your time on. Personally I like discussing the current issues instead of dwelling on DJ's past posts that he covered up.
All my posts are out there for people to interpret the way they want. I have no intention of going back and changing what I said previously. I have always been open about them and stand behind them.
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Now one could say something similar about Ursus, look at the amount of time he is on here, the information he is able to get, the contacts he has..ect. Ursus has cultivated a entire data base of information against the TTI.
I would suspect that Ursus is either disabled, retired, being compensated by someone or thing or independently wealthy (trust fund baby). We don't think of this because he is speaking the language of fornits, which btw I have no problem with. I just don't see this inquiry going on with him.
DJ I have said this before there is always going to be a ying and yang, black and white, polar opposits....ect.
He happens to carry the opposite here.
I also don't have a problem with you holding him to the truth, Whooter has mislead folks with his earlier posts, why he does not just acknowledge this "I don't know". But keep the fire on DJ just maybe keep it at a lower flame, I don't know.
Just about everyone on fornits could be attacked for a past post or two or questioned about what they meant at the time or why they spend so much time here. As a random example we pressured DJ at one point about his academic requirements and he went off and started altering his posts from 5 years ago. So we could hold his feet to the fire for that, it just depends on what you want to spend your time on. Personally I like discussing the current issues instead of dwelling on DJ's past posts that he covered up.
All my posts are out there for people to interpret the way they want. I have no intention of going back and changing what I said previously. I have always been open about them and stand behind them.
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Dude unless you have blatantly lied to me consider this conversation closed, I will probably have nothing more to say. Just please don't make a fool out of me if I am backing you or for that matter anyone else. I appreciate your take on things here Ido not always agree but I don't expect to, I was a past programme, you were not. Though your daughter was, which does count for a lot, in my book anyway.
Folks don't make a big deal out of what I said here please, I am not brokering a deal with the devil, for heavens sake. I for one am tired of the bickering, especially when we are on a thread trying to help a 15 year old girl and the only thing we can do, is have a competition as to who is right in our advice to her.
Whooter's and fornits advice does not even reach the level of contradicting, you both are concerned for her safety but look at some programs differently as far as academics and the treatment being advocated.
Some of you folks want to argue where does his motivations lie, well it is really none of your business personally, no one is under any obligation to reveal anything in order to post a comment. Yes it is nice to know but some times I think it is more of a hindrance to know these things. It creates divisions here, which are not accepted well.
Just my opinion......
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Now one could say something similar about Ursus, look at the amount of time he is on here, the information he is able to get, the contacts he has..ect. Ursus has cultivated a entire data base of information against the TTI.
I would suspect that Ursus is either disabled, retired, being compensated by someone or thing or independently wealthy (trust fund baby). We don't think of this because he is speaking the language of fornits, which btw I have no problem with. I just don't see this inquiry going on with him.
DJ I have said this before there is always going to be a ying and yang, black and white, polar opposits....ect.
He happens to carry the opposite here.
I also don't have a problem with you holding him to the truth, Whooter has mislead folks with his earlier posts, why he does not just acknowledge this "I don't know". But keep the fire on DJ just maybe keep it at a lower flame, I don't know.
Just about everyone on fornits could be attacked for a past post or two or questioned about what they meant at the time or why they spend so much time here. As a random example we pressured DJ at one point about his academic requirements and he went off and started altering his posts from 5 years ago. So we could hold his feet to the fire for that, it just depends on what you want to spend your time on. Personally I like discussing the current issues instead of dwelling on DJ's past posts that he covered up.
All my posts are out there for people to interpret the way they want. I have no intention of going back and changing what I said previously. I have always been open about them and stand behind them.
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Dude unless you have blatantly lied to me consider this conversation closed, I will probably have nothing more to say. Just please don't make a fool out of me if I am backing you or for that matter anyone else. I appreciate your take on things here Ido not always agree but I don't expect to, I was a past programme, you were not. Though your daughter was, which does count for a lot, in my book anyway.
Folks don't make a big deal out of what I said here please, I am not brokering a deal with the devil, for heavens sake. I for one am tired of the bickering, especially when we are on a thread trying to help a 15 year old girl and the only thing we can do, is have a competition as to who is right in our advice to her.
Whooter's and fornits advice does not even reach the level of contradicting, you both are concerned for her safety but look at some programs differently as far as academics and the treatment being advocated.
Some of you folks want to argue where does his motivations lie, well it is really none of your business personally, no one is under any obligation to reveal anything in order to post a comment. Yes it is nice to know but some times I think it is more of a hindrance to know these things. It creates divisions here, which are not accepted well.
Just my opinion......
Being anonymous is one of the strengths of fornits. If people had to sign in and reveal their real names there would be very few posters here. I am really not interested one way or another who people are here.
If we can keep the attacks on a single thread like this one it may keep the arguments from spilling over and derailing threads like Academy at Sisters. I think once DJ gets the whole fiduciary issue out of his system the climate will clear and we will be able to have more balanced and productive discussions.
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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Whooter I am questioning your veracity and motication in this thread. This is important for people to hear. You claimed to have access to Robert Bruce's treatment records at HLA that revealed "gay issues." In addition you tried to identify Mr. Bruce on fornits, but has been wrong about his ID.
I can just as easily say that you claimed to be a member of the Nazi party. That you claim I am John Reuben but are wrong about my id.
This is an open forum. People can say whatever they want. I am not sure what your point is.
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Keep up the good work Whooter.
Yes, Whooter.. Keep up the good work. "Suck It" needs you!
Paul
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He is under non-disclosure agreements, I'm sure. Also if they are still his customer they would really not appreciate him doing this. His fiduciary responsibilities are clearer now then before, if in fact he does work for a company in Newton, Ma. doing M&R, he would very much be held bound to ethical responsibilities concerning fiduciary directions. His team are the point men in any acquisition, so they are privy to costs, he just does not necessarily have any legal responsibility, though he still could get fired (blackballed) for breach of ethical standards.
This is all I am going to say about this subject because even though it goes to credibility of character...
I agree. Whooter is definitely tied up in TTI businesses and doesn't want to admit it because he has cultivated the "I am just a regular parent" theme here so as not to appear to have monetary ties to the TTI. I think you hit it right on the head.
As far as credibility of character goes, he has none, based on the above.
@Joel...RB is another poster here who went to HLA. Whooter claimes to know his identity, posted (what he thinks is) it several times and also claimed to have "access" to RB's "treatment records" from HLA. Who would have that access? [/i]Not "just a regular parent"[/i] I assure you. That's why he doesn't want to talk about it, because he has done some really heinous things to try to "expose" RB's identity on the forum.
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Whooter I am questioning your veracity and motication in this thread. This is important for people to hear. You claimed to have access to Robert Bruce's treatment records at HLA that revealed "gay issues." In addition you tried to identify Mr. Bruce on fornits, but has been wrong about his ID.
I can just as easily say that you claimed to be a member of the Nazi party. That you claim I am John Reuben but are wrong about my id.
This is an open forum. People can say whatever they want. I am not sure what your point is.
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Yes Whooter, do tell.
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Hey, RobertBruce, didn't Whooter claim to have access to your "treatment records" from HLA? Can you tell us about what he said and did? Was it moral? Was it upright? Or is he just a run-of-the-mill scumbag with an agenda to impugn the character of kids who were abused at programs like HLA? Thanks in advance.
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He is under non-disclosure agreements, I'm sure. Also if they are still his customer they would really not appreciate him doing this. His fiduciary responsibilities are clearer now then before, if in fact he does work for a company in Newton, Ma. doing M&R, he would very much be held bound to ethical responsibilities concerning fiduciary directions. His team are the point men in any acquisition, so they are privy to costs, he just does not necessarily have any legal responsibility, though he still could get fired (blackballed) for breach of ethical standards.
This is all I am going to say about this subject because even though it goes to credibility of character...
I agree. Whooter is definitely tied up in TTI businesses and doesn't want to admit it because he has cultivated the "I .am just a regular parent" theme here so as not to appear to have monetary ties to the TTI. I think you hit it right on the head
What did my hammer do????????
As far as credibility of character goes, he has none, based on the above.
@Joel...RB is another poster here who went to HLA. Whooter claimes to know his identity, posted (what he thinks is) it several times and also claimed to have "access" to RB's "treatment records" from HLA. Who would have that access? [/i]Not "just a regular parent"[/i] I assure you. That's why he doesn't want to talk about it, because he has done some really heinous things to try to "expose" RB's identity on the forum.
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Hey, RobertBruce, didn't Whooter claim to have access to your "treatment records" from HLA? Can you tell us about what he said and did? Was it moral? Was it upright? Or is he just a run-of-the-mill scumbag with an agenda to impugn the character of kids who were abused at programs like HLA? Thanks in advance.
He did indeed DJ, he did indeed. It was a few years ago, when several HLA staff members were trolling the boards. John made friends with one of them and began claiming that he had been given access to secret information concerning me. He insisted that I publically support him regarding, I believe, his claim that there are only 10,000 psychologist in the US. I advised him that not only would I not support his misinformation, but that I didn't care what he thought he had, as HLA had no clue who I was, and had no real information concerning my identity. Further his insistence only further proved the point that Buch and his buddy John here are more than willing to circumvent any law or moral code, provided it serves their own interest. I repeatedly denied John's request and he eventually forgot about it and moved on. Later when I had stopped posting quite as much John took the opportunity to reveal what information he had been given illegally from and HLA staff member. He claimed that I was gay, and that he had evidence to prove it. When this failed to produce any desired result he then began pretending to be me, and was later banned for it.
Of course now he cries foul whenever he feels any of his child abusing cronies have personal information concerning them revealed, but this of course is by no means a two way street in John's mind. He per his usual mo accomplished nothing, and was incorrect in all his assertions. When however has this ever stopped him?
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Hey, RobertBruce, didn't Whooter claim to have access to your "treatment records" from HLA? Can you tell us about what he said and did? Was it moral? Was it upright? Or is he just a run-of-the-mill scumbag with an agenda to impugn the character of kids who were abused at programs like HLA? Thanks in advance.
He did indeed DJ, he did indeed. It was a few years ago, when several HLA staff members were trolling the boards. John made friends with one of them and began claiming that he had been given access to secret information concerning me. He insisted that I publically support him regarding, I believe, his claim that there are only 10,000 psychologist in the US. I advised him that not only would I not support his misinformation, but that I didn't care what he thought he had, as HLA had no clue who I was, and had no real information concerning my identity. Further his insistence only further proved the point that Buch and his buddy John here are more than willing to circumvent any law or moral code, provided it serves their own interest. I repeatedly denied John's request and he eventually forgot about it and moved on. Later when I had stopped posting quite as much John took the opportunity to reveal what information he had been given illegally from and HLA staff member. He claimed that I was gay, and that he had evidence to prove it. When this failed to produce any desired result he then began pretending to be me, and was later banned for it.
Of course now he cries foul whenever he feels any of his child abusing cronies have personal information concerning them revealed, but this of course is by no means a two way street in John's mind. He per his usual mo accomplished nothing, and was incorrect in all his assertions. When however has this ever stopped him?
Ha,Ha,Ha Where else could we go to read a post like that. You should create a footer with links to all these posts I made and then get the FBI involved. Sounds illegal to me.
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Hey, RobertBruce, didn't Whooter claim to have access to your "treatment records" from HLA? Can you tell us about what he said and did? Was it moral? Was it upright? Or is he just a run-of-the-mill scumbag with an agenda to impugn the character of kids who were abused at programs like HLA? Thanks in advance.
He did indeed DJ, he did indeed. It was a few years ago, when several HLA staff members were trolling the boards. John made friends with one of them and began claiming that he had been given access to secret information concerning me. He insisted that I publically support him regarding, I believe, his claim that there are only 10,000 psychologist in the US. I advised him that not only would I not support his misinformation, but that I didn't care what he thought he had, as HLA had no clue who I was, and had no real information concerning my identity. Further his insistence only further proved the point that Buch and his buddy John here are more than willing to circumvent any law or moral code, provided it serves their own interest. I repeatedly denied John's request and he eventually forgot about it and moved on. Later when I had stopped posting quite as much John took the opportunity to reveal what information he had been given illegally from and HLA staff member. He claimed that I was gay, and that he had evidence to prove it. When this failed to produce any desired result he then began pretending to be me, and was later banned for it.
Of course now he cries foul whenever he feels any of his child abusing cronies have personal information concerning them revealed, but this of course is by no means a two way street in John's mind. He per his usual mo accomplished nothing, and was incorrect in all his assertions. When however has this ever stopped him?
Man, that is messed up. He was recently all tied in knots and trolling with sockpuppets over a parent's information being posted on the internet. It appears he has a double standard. He gets upset when people post parents' information, but he posts what he thinks is kids' information that he claims to have gotten straight from their treatment records. That just ain't right.
I guess all his upset over the other incident is just posturing, because he clearly has no problem revealing very personal information about kids when it suits his agenda. That's pretty much what I figured. Thanks for explaining, RB.
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Ha,Ha,Ha Where else could we go to read a post like that. You should create a footer with links to all these posts I made and then get the FBI involved. Sounds illegal to me
John are you now trying to claim you didn't do this? I better copy your orginal quote before you try and back peddal.
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Hey, RobertBruce, didn't Whooter claim to have access to your "treatment records" from HLA? Can you tell us about what he said and did? Was it moral? Was it upright? Or is he just a run-of-the-mill scumbag with an agenda to impugn the character of kids who were abused at programs like HLA? Thanks in advance.
He did indeed DJ, he did indeed. It was a few years ago, when several HLA staff members were trolling the boards. John made friends with one of them and began claiming that he had been given access to secret information concerning me. He insisted that I publically support him regarding, I believe, his claim that there are only 10,000 psychologist in the US. I advised him that not only would I not support his misinformation, but that I didn't care what he thought he had, as HLA had no clue who I was, and had no real information concerning my identity. Further his insistence only further proved the point that Buch and his buddy John here are more than willing to circumvent any law or moral code, provided it serves their own interest. I repeatedly denied John's request and he eventually forgot about it and moved on. Later when I had stopped posting quite as much John took the opportunity to reveal what information he had been given illegally from and HLA staff member. He claimed that I was gay, and that he had evidence to prove it. When this failed to produce any desired result he then began pretending to be me, and was later banned for it.
Of course now he cries foul whenever he feels any of his child abusing cronies have personal information concerning them revealed, but this of course is by no means a two way street in John's mind. He per his usual mo accomplished nothing, and was incorrect in all his assertions. When however has this ever stopped him?
Ha,Ha,Ha Where else could we go to read a post like that. You should create a footer with links to all these posts I made and then get the FBI involved. Sounds illegal to me.
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Done.
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The pearls of knowledge are just rolling out of the oysters tonight, folks. Check this (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=30872&start=60#p371705)out:
That's funny. Spoken like a person who has never seen the inside of a program business office...
Mothball an empty bed? You're unhinged. The program motto is "Heads in beds and asses in chairs." I've heard this verbatim many times. Empty beds means empty accounts. That's definitley not how they operate.
Its okay if you disagree,DJ, I happen to know differently. This may have been the way in the programs you worked in.
I have seen the screening process and seen kids being rejected and the program moved forward with a lighter peer group. They could have easily accepted one of those other kids for a few months until they filled the slot, but they didnt.
And, finally, once again, the truth comes out.
Now where would Whooter, "Just a regular parent with no ties to the TTI," have seen the internal screening processes and selection cycles of programs? How could he have been in the room when children were being evaluated, and seen the selection deliberations, I wonder?
Wow. Stunning admission there. You can hear him saying "It might have been that way in programs you worked for DJ, but not the ones I work for. Bravo.
Quoted For Truth, too. That closes that issue. Whooter admits working for programs.
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lol, Jeesh, DJ, you really do have a thing for this whole Aspen employee spin. I have explained this before. There were a few kids at SUWS with my daughter who didnt get into ASR. I spoke with the admissions director to ask if my daughter was accepted and how they determine this... long story short they dont accept kids if they dont think they will make the full term or have a history of violence etc. As it turns out the peer group my daughter was in moved forward with 2 people short (2 empty beds).
So I know first hand how their screening process works and at that time they didnt accept kids just to fill a bed.
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Full...of...shit.
Sorry, brother, but you admitted to something that you could not have seen as a parent. No way you saw any screening first hand without being in the employ of a program. It's not possible. And now you've admitted it openly.
"Fiduciary responsibility"..."Saw patient screening first hand"...Five years of slaving away on Fornits to promote programs...etc, etc, etc...
You must think everyone here is really stupid to believe your cock-and-bull excuse. You slipped up again, just like when you admitted the fiduciary duties to Aspen. Took you a long time, but you killed yourself here.
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Full...of...shit.
Sorry, brother, but you admitted to something that you could not have seen as a parent. No way you saw any screening first hand without being in the employ of a program. It's not possible. And now you've admitted it openly.
"Fiduciary responsibility"..."Saw patient screening first hand"...Five years of slaving away on Fornits to promote programs...etc, etc, etc...
You must think everyone here is really stupid to believe your cock-and-bull excuse. You slipped up again, just like when you admitted the fiduciary duties to Aspen. Took you a long time, but you killed yourself here.
DJ, come on. You really think your audience of (two) tonight is going to accept this cock and bull story, your cooking up. Keep in spinning you will have enough yarn by next week to start sewing me a sweater.
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Lols. Even Danny is all BAWWW over it. Sorry, Danno, but Whooter has now admitted to working for a programs and nothing you can say will change that. Even you know random parents never see the inside of a screening room with someone else's kid in it. C'mon, Danno, you worked at a program. How many times did some other kid's parents get into the intake office with a kid that wasn't theirs? :roflmao: Not only is it totally unbelievable, it's ILLEGAL to boot!
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Lols. Even Danny is all BAWWW over it. Sorry, Danno, but Whooter has now admitted to working for a programs and nothing you can say will change that. Even you know random parents never see the inside of a screening room with someone else's kid in it. C'mon, Danno, you worked at a program. How many times did some other kid's parents get into the intake office with a kid that wasn't theirs? :roflmao: Not only is it totally unbelievable, it's ILLEGAL to boot!
Dude, I was 17yrs old and left at 19, my parents should have picked me up but they were to busy.
I was used for one intake, Michael Skakels in August of 1978.
So, nice try Mr. Professional Phd. Staff of Daytop and other programs. Keep spinning my sister wants a sweater
now.
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So you also admit this would never happen. At Skakel's intake I suppose the Joneses or the Smiths were hanging around the intake room, huh?
Your precious mentor Whooter has gotten himself botched up. No way around that, Danny boy.
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So you also admit this would never happen. At Skakel's intake I suppose the Joneses or the Smiths were hanging around the intake room, huh?
Your precious mentor Whooter has gotten himself botched up. No way around that, Danny boy.
Crap, now my daughter wants one. Stop spinning please!!!!!!!!How many orders can I take.
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Personally I could care less if people posting here work for programs, own programs, or whatever. It doesn't mean their argument is not credible, actually it shows they really believe what they say because they are willing to stand behind it, and invest in trying to make their ideas happen. On the other hand, those who claim there are hundreds of child gulags abusing kids out there, just argue online and think anybody is going to read it. Maybe Obama? He will read this thread and then issue a signing statement shutting down all treatment? I think I'd believe the people here more, if like people who work and own programs, they put their money where there mouth is. Get together a few "survivors" and do a hunger strike in front of a different program each month, this will get you some media attention. There must be more effective ways of fighting child abuse than arguing with Whooter, at least I think so.
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I know first hand how their screening process works.
"Firsthand knowledge" is knowledge gained through direct experience or observation.
link (http://http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_firsthand_knowledge)
Not "someone explained it to me" or "I heard it from the intake people" but "I SAW IT WITH MY OWN EYES." Whooter made a big admission here.
Lols. Yesterday SUCK IT was saying "Whooter has never uttered anything that would lead anyone to believe he works in the industry," calling it a "Fornits myth" told by the "Fornits extremists."
Now it's "I don't care that he works in the industry. It means he believes in what he's saying"
SUCK IT's hypocrisy is shining on display tonight! It called LYING and DECEIVING, SUCK IT.
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I know first hand how their screening process works.
"Firsthand knowledge" is knowledge gained through direct experience or observation.
link (http://http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_firsthand_knowledge)
Not "someone explained it to me" or "I heard it from the intake people" but "I SAW IT WITH MY OWN EYES." Whooter made a big admission here.
Lols. Yesterday SUCK IT was saying "Whooter has never uttered anything that would lead anyone to believe he works in the industry," calling it a "Fornits myth" told by the "Fornits extremists."
Now it's "I don't care that he works in the industry. It means he believes in what he's saying"
SUCK IT's hypocrisy is shining on display tonight! It called LYING and DECEIVING, SUCK IT.
DJ, you are getting closer to the edge of the abyss, do you really want to fall off. I'm trying to help you here.
I have more orders for your yarn then I thought was humanly possible. Open a textile mill, please.
You have earned it, Bravo!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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I know first hand how their screening process works.
"Firsthand knowledge" is knowledge gained through direct experience or observation.
link (http://http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_firsthand_knowledge)
Not "someone explained it to me" or "I heard it from the intake people" but "I SAW IT WITH MY OWN EYES." Whooter made a big admission here.
Lols. Yesterday SUCK IT was saying "Whooter has never uttered anything that would lead anyone to believe he works in the industry," calling it a "Fornits myth" told by the "Fornits extremists."
Now it's "I don't care that he works in the industry. It means he believes in what he's saying"
SUCK IT's hypocrisy is shining on display tonight! It called LYING and DECEIVING, SUCK IT.
DJ, I think you have finally lost it. This last debate was too much for you or the study pushed you over the edge. Maybe you should put a link in your footer telling everyone I sit in on the the kids acceptance screening processes!! lol
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I know first hand how their screening process works.
"Firsthand knowledge" is knowledge gained through direct experience or observation.
link (http://http://wiki.answers.com/Q/What_is_firsthand_knowledge)
Not "someone explained it to me" or "I heard it from the intake people" but "I SAW IT WITH MY OWN EYES." Whooter made a big admission here.
Lols. Yesterday SUCK IT was saying "Whooter has never uttered anything that would lead anyone to believe he works in the industry," calling it a "Fornits myth" told by the "Fornits extremists."
Now it's "I don't care that he works in the industry. It means he believes in what he's saying"
SUCK IT's hypocrisy is shining on display tonight! It called LYING and DECEIVING, SUCK IT.
If that's how you feel about it. I accept the fact I don't know who is behind usernames here, and it really doesn't bother me much. I focus on what people have to say, their arguments and comments. Even if someone claims to be something, they might be something else, and this goes for all posters here. So as a logical person, what other choice is there to address arguments directly and skip my theories about the biographies of those behind them.
I notice you dysfunction choose to spend your time attempting to discredit Whooter through technicalities, instead of just offering your own experience as a counter argument. Whooter says he had a teen child in a program and it helped them, this is completely believable to me. I don't know anything about you, or why you think programs are abusive, or even what program you worked at. Because you don't talk about what you know and experienced, you prefer to delve into the realm of conspiracy theories, and yes they are theories because you don't know who Whooter is. If it turned out he did in fact work for a program, something nobody knows here (hence it being a myth), then it would not change my view of him or his arguments, although yes I might have to edit that out of my mythology. But since nobody knows, in the mythology it belongs.
Imagine if you were in a debate hall, and the topic is, say "are programs abusive"? Whooter could make some good arguments that they are generally not, and most kids are helped. But then you would stand up, and attack Whooter for who he is, where he works, and past statements. I don't think this type of argument would fly in a real debate setting. You could debate the things I post in my mythology as others have, but instead you look for tiny discrepancies (in your view) of my posts, hoping to brand me a "LIAR" and "DECEIVER", thereby dismissing everything I've ever said, and will say, which is a lot easier than you offering intelligent counter arguments. But calling names doesn't make it so, and if anybody comes to this website they will listen to Whooter's arguments and mine, and the best counter to this from your side would be to do the same thing, make arguments, rather than desperately try to discredit people entirely. This is some free advice for you dysfunction.
Remember, as a "survivor" I could take the same tactic against you. You worked for "abusive" programs (according to your own logic) therefore you are a bad person, and should not be believed. Do you think this is an effective argument and I would convince people using it? Because you do the exact same thing just the other way around, think about it.
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The pearls of knowledge are just rolling out of the oysters tonight, folks. Check this (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=30872&start=60#p371705)out:
That's funny. Spoken like a person who has never seen the inside of a program business office...
Mothball an empty bed? You're unhinged. The program motto is "Heads in beds and asses in chairs." I've heard this verbatim many times. Empty beds means empty accounts. That's definitley not how they operate.
Its okay if you disagree,DJ, I happen to know differently. This may have been the way in the programs you worked in.
I have seen the screening process and seen kids being rejected and the program moved forward with a lighter peer group. They could have easily accepted one of those other kids for a few months until they filled the slot, but they didnt.
And, finally, once again, the truth comes out.
Now where would Whooter, "Just a regular parent with no ties to the TTI," have seen the internal screening processes and selection cycles of programs? How could he have been in the room when children were being evaluated, and seen the selection deliberations, I wonder?
Wow. Stunning admission there. You can hear him saying "It might have been that way in programs you worked for DJ, but not the ones I work for. Bravo.
Quoted For Truth, too. That closes that issue. Whooter admits working for programs.
You said it...not me! "Wiggle, wiggle! Squirm, squirm! Stings, doesn't it? " It's not going to go away...
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John, are you back to pretending you have a daughter again?
Why don't you tell everyone about the meeting you claimed to attend where a study was conducted to determine the safety of the TBS industry?
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John, are you back to pretending you have a daughter again?
Why don't you tell everyone about the meeting you claimed to attend where a study was conducted to determine the safety of the TBS industry?
No, that was a Secret Meeting (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=246657#p246657) that "you" attended with the industry people.
Here lets take a look:
The number 20,000 was given as a rough estimate as to how many kids were locked up in the PTS. It was agreed upon at a secret meeting a number of us attended at the Newark Hilton. Punch was served. If you have another number I'd be more than willing to add it to a seperate spread sheet and include it in later data.
Hmmm.. all these conspiracy theories and secret meetings going on.
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Oh John did you forget? Here you are:
Report this postReply with quoteThe Who
by TheWho » Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:29 am
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first. We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently. Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.
Good to see you haven't forgotten how to put your foot in your mouth.
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Better repost this just to make sure John doesn't edit his comments.
John, are you back to pretending you have a daughter again?
Why don't you tell everyone about the meeting you claimed to attend where a study was conducted to determine the safety of the TBS industry?
No, that was a Secret Meeting (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=246657#p246657) that "you" attended with the industry people.
Here lets take a look:
The number 20,000 was given as a rough estimate as to how many kids were locked up in the PTS. It was agreed upon at a secret meeting a number of us attended at the Newark Hilton. Punch was served. If you have another number I'd be more than willing to add it to a seperate spread sheet and include it in later data.
Hmmm.. all these conspiracy theories and secret meetings going on.
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So you had a meeting in Newark and I had one in Chicago. Why is that a problem? Is there another conspiracy that I am not aware of?
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My conference was for abuse survivors from the TBS. What was yours for John, and why have you claimed you don't have a connection to the industry if you're attending meetings connected to it?
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My conference was for abuse survivors from the TBS. What was yours for John, and why have you claimed you don't have a connection to the industry if you're attending meetings connected to it?
Why dont you read the post that you put up? Does it say I was meeting with TI people? Were you meeting with TI people?
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Well John, you claimed you attended a meeting with fornits posters where you formed a statistical group discussing the TBS. So again why would you attend such a meeting if you have no connection to the TBS industry?
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Well John, you claimed you attended a meeting with fornits posters where you formed a statistical group discussing the TBS. So again why would you attend such a meeting if you have no connection to the TBS industry?
If I were attending a meeting with fornits posters then that must mean I enjoy meeting with them. If you consider fornits part of the TBS industry then I guess we are all part of it. Did you enjoy your meeting with the TBS industry in Newark? lol
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Well John, you claimed you attended a meeting with fornits posters where you formed a statistical group discussing the TBS. So again why would you attend such a meeting if you have no connection to the TBS industry?
If I were attending a meeting with fornits posters then that must mean I enjoy meeting with them. If you consider fornits part of the TBS industry then I guess we are all part of it. Did you enjoy your meeting with the TBS industry in Newark? lol
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Whooter, you believe in a world where "asshole" troubled teens should be forced to endure sleep-deprivation, starvation, and not being allowed to use bathrooms. You believe that this is a form of treatment. And that makes you one sick puppy. Your thoughts of what is treatment or for that matter, your very humanity is not in alignment with the general public. Nothing you write is of value. You can be well-spoken, and come off as intelligent, but a lot of sick fucks do. Promote your programs all you want. If you are representative of them, that only hurts their image.
Paul
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Well John, you claimed you attended a meeting with fornits posters where you formed a statistical group discussing the TBS. So again why would you attend such a meeting if you have no connection to the TBS industry?
If I were attending a meeting with fornits posters then that must mean I enjoy meeting with them. If you consider fornits part of the TBS industry then I guess we are all part of it. Did you enjoy your meeting with the TBS industry in Newark? lol
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Whooter, you believe in a world where "asshole" troubled teens should be forced to endure sleep-deprivation, starvation, and not being allowed to use bathrooms. You believe that this is a form of treatment. And that makes you one sick puppy. Your thoughts of what is treatment or for that matter, your very humanity is not in alignment with the general public. Nothing you write is of value. You can be well-spoken, and come off as intelligent, but a lot of sick fucks do. Promote your programs all you want. If you are representative of them, that only hurts their image.
Paul
I am not aware of programs which would starve people or not allow them to use the bathroom. This would not be any form of treatment that I would endorse. Paul, I think you may be on drugs or delusional, you just enjoy attacking people which is a sickness in itself.
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Well, Whooter, you said that you did, and that if I was not on the same page, it was only because my limited world-view was being threatened.
Paul
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Well John, you claimed you attended a meeting with fornits posters where you formed a statistical group discussing the TBS. So again why would you attend such a meeting if you have no connection to the TBS industry?
If I were attending a meeting with fornits posters then that must mean I enjoy meeting with them. If you consider fornits part of the TBS industry then I guess we are all part of it. Did you enjoy your meeting with the TBS industry in Newark? lol
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Whooter, you believe in a world where "asshole" troubled teens should be forced to endure sleep-deprivation, starvation, and not being allowed to use bathrooms. You believe that this is a form of treatment. And that makes you one sick puppy. Your thoughts of what is treatment or for that matter, your very humanity is not in alignment with the general public. Nothing you write is of value. You can be well-spoken, and come off as intelligent, but a lot of sick fucks do. Promote your programs all you want. If you are representative of them, that only hurts their image.
Paul
Paul, where are you coming from. You really believe this is a credible statement. One problem Paul I see developing here, is your inability to control your temper. It does not allow you to come forth with your intelligence in your posts.
Just say'in.
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Well, Whooter, you said that you did, and that if I was not on the same page, it was only because my limited world-view was being threatened.
Paul
OK, so we are supposed to reply, to what????? Your world view being threatened or whether you are on the same page.
Stop drinking and writing, Paul.
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I'm not mad Danny.. not even a lil..
GRRRRR!!!! AAARRRRRRGGGGHH!! Happy? there ya go! ME MAD!!
I'm not trying to look intelligent Danny. When it comes to clear violations of humanity, you don't need all that much intelligence.. Just commons sense.
As far as you not knowing where I am coming from, that doesn t mean much. As you have clearly shown throughout your posts, you never know what the hell is going on.
Paul
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Well, Whooter, you said that you did, and that if I was not on the same page, it was only because my limited world-view was being threatened.
Paul
If I recall the conversation at all I was referring to a kid I knew in public school who rubbed his feces all over the inside of the stall, so the teacher wouldn't let him use the bathroom after that and he crapped in his pants. But I dont see that as a public school issue, I dont conclude from this that "all" public schools keep "all" the kids from using the bathrooms.
Its not my way of thinking. I see it as an issue with the one student and his teacher and didnt reflect at all on the policies of the Public school system in the United States.
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Well, Whooter, you said that you did, and that if I was not on the same page, it was only because my limited world-view was being threatened.
Paul
OK, so we are supposed to reply, to what????? Your world view being threatened or whether you are on the same page.
Stop drinking and writing, Paul.
GENIUS DANNY! GENIUS DANNY!
LOL! I don t drink Danny... In fact, I ll be getting up in 5 hours.
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Well, Whooter, you said that you did, and that if I was not on the same page, it was only because my limited world-view was being threatened.
Paul
If I recall the conversation at all I was referring to a kid I knew in public school who rubbed his feces all over the inside of the stall, so the teacher wouldn't let him use the bathroom after that and he crapped in his pants. But I dont see that as a public school issue, I dont conclude from this that "all" public schools keep "all" the kids from using the bathrooms.
Its not my way of thinking. I see it as an issue with the one student and his teacher and didnt reflect at all on the policies of the Public school system in the United States.
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Whooter.... Whooter.... Whooter....
I know distractions are kinda like your thing, but I'm not talking about that. I am talking about you telling someone who claims to have been starved, sleep-deprived, and force to shit their own pants at a program, that it was either because the staff were assholes, or that they did what they did only because he was an asshole who earned it.
See... when you don t take time to think, Whooter, you can sometimes reveal things about who you really are, that maybe you wish you hadn't.
This makes you a less then ideal representatives of programs that are supposed to help teens.
Paul St. John
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I'm not mad Danny.. not even a lil..
GRRRRR!!!! AAARRRRRRGGGGHH!! Happy? there ya go! ME MAD!!
I'm not trying to look intelligent Danny. When it comes to clear violations of humanity, you don't need all that much intelligence.. Just commons sense.
As far as you not knowing where I am coming from, that doesn t mean much. As you have clearly shown throughout your posts, you never know what the hell is going on.
Paul
Well, just recently you have resorted to more vulgarism then usual. So I am assuming that your angry. When folks get angry their posts start to slip in intelligence or maybe "clarity" would be a better word.
Paul, why you feel the need to insult me I really don't know. I know exactly what is going on in my world, that is what I project onto this web site.
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Well, Whooter, you said that you did, and that if I was not on the same page, it was only because my limited world-view was being threatened.
Paul
If I recall the conversation at all ......blah blah blah... not all the same.... blah .. blah blah...United States.
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Well, let me help ya Whooter.. try thinking back to 2 days ago.
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Well, Whooter, you said that you did, and that if I was not on the same page, it was only because my limited world-view was being threatened.
Paul
OK, so we are supposed to reply, to what????? Your world view being threatened or whether you are on the same page.
Stop drinking and writing, Paul.
GENIUS DANNY! GENIUS DANNY!
LOL! I don t drink Danny... In fact, I ll be getting up in 5 hours.
Paul, you do drink. Read your F/B page.
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I'm not mad Danny.. not even a lil..
GRRRRR!!!! AAARRRRRRGGGGHH!! Happy? there ya go! ME MAD!!
I'm not trying to look intelligent Danny. When it comes to clear violations of humanity, you don't need all that much intelligence.. Just commons sense.
As far as you not knowing where I am coming from, that doesn t mean much. As you have clearly shown throughout your posts, you never know what the hell is going on.
Paul
Well, just recently you have resorted to more vulgarism then usual. So I am assuming that your angry. When folks get angry their posts start to slip in intelligence or maybe "clarity" would be a better word.
Paul, why you feel the need to insult me I really don't know. I know exactly what is going on in my world, that is what I project onto this web site.
Danny, do you have any idea, how annoying it is to converse with someone, who cannot keep a single thing in context, unless, it is their own bullshit, and even then, sometimes not.
Paul
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Well, Whooter, you said that you did, and that if I was not on the same page, it was only because my limited world-view was being threatened.
Paul
OK, so we are supposed to reply, to what????? Your world view being threatened or whether you are on the same page.
Stop drinking and writing, Paul.
GENIUS DANNY! GENIUS DANNY!
LOL! I don t drink Danny... In fact, I ll be getting up in 5 hours.
Paul, you do drink. Read your F/B page.
If you would like top believe that I drink that is fine. I use to. I haven t in years. Either way, this is what everyone says you do.. You learn about people's personal shit, and interject it into discussions. Danny, if you start taking low shots on me, and most especially, bringing up my family in anyway, I gonna wipe that fucking grin right off your face, so start calling your lawyers asshole.. Now, I am angry.
Paul
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Well, Whooter, you said that you did, and that if I was not on the same page, it was only because my limited world-view was being threatened.
Paul
If I recall the conversation at all I was referring to a kid I knew in public school who rubbed his feces all over the inside of the stall, so the teacher wouldn't let him use the bathroom after that and he crapped in his pants. But I dont see that as a public school issue, I dont conclude from this that "all" public schools keep "all" the kids from using the bathrooms.
Its not my way of thinking. I see it as an issue with the one student and his teacher and didnt reflect at all on the policies of the Public school system in the United States.
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Whooter.... Whooter.... Whooter....
I know distractions are kinda like your thing, but I'm not talking about that. I am talking about you telling someone who claims to have been starved, sleep-deprived, and force to shit their own pants at a program, that it was either because the staff were assholes, or that they did what they did only because he was an asshole who earned it.
See... when you don t take time to think, Whooter, you can sometimes reveal things about who you really are, that maybe you wish you hadn't.
This makes you a less then ideal representatives of programs that are supposed to help teens.
Paul St. John
Exactly, the staff was being an asshole or the kid was being an asshole or both. Just like the kid in public school. If the kid wasnt doing anything wrong then the teacher was clearly being an asshole. If the kid was rubbing his feces all over the inside of the stall then the kid was being an asshole and deserved to crap in his pants.
I think we have already addressed the various definitions of starved in this forum... one meaning that the kid was not allowed to eat pizza on pizza night and had to eat some crap the kitchen staff threw together.... sleep deprived could mean pulling an all nighter... or having a newborn in the house.
None of the definitions or causes were defined.. just I was forced to shit in my pants, starved and sleep deprived. Is it an industry problem, kid problem, staff issue? We dont know what the cause was, but because you dont like my thinking gives you the right to attack me for it? Why not question the guy who was forced to crap in his pants and find out what he did wrong if anything?
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Well, Whooter, you said that you did, and that if I was not on the same page, it was only because my limited world-view was being threatened.
Paul
If I recall the conversation at all I was referring to a kid I knew in public school who rubbed his feces all over the inside of the stall, so the teacher wouldn't let him use the bathroom after that and he crapped in his pants. But I dont see that as a public school issue, I dont conclude from this that "all" public schools keep "all" the kids from using the bathrooms.
Its not my way of thinking. I see it as an issue with the one student and his teacher and didnt reflect at all on the policies of the Public school system in the United States.
...
Whooter.... Whooter.... Whooter....
I know distractions are kinda like your thing, but I'm not talking about that. I am talking about you telling someone who claims to have been starved, sleep-deprived, and force to shit their own pants at a program, that it was either because the staff were assholes, or that they did what they did only because he was an asshole who earned it.
See... when you don t take time to think, Whooter, you can sometimes reveal things about who you really are, that maybe you wish you hadn't.
This makes you a less then ideal representatives of programs that are supposed to help teens.
Paul St. John
Exactly, the staff was being an asshole or the kid was being an asshole or both. Just like the kid in public school. If the kid wasnt doing anything wrong then the teacher was clearly being an asshole. If the kid was rubbing his feces all over the inside of the stall then the kid was being an asshole and deserved to crap in his pants.
I think we have already addressed the various definitions of starved in this forum... one meaning that the kid was not allowed to eat pizza on pizza night and had to eat some crap the kitchen staff threw together.... sleep deprived could mean pulling an all nighter... or having a newborn in the house.
None of the definitions or causes were defined.. just I was forced to shit in my pants, starved and sleep deprived. Is it an industry problem, kid problem, staff issue? We dont know what the cause was, but because you dont like my thinking gives you the right to attack me for it? Why not question the guy who was forced to crap in his pants and find out what he did wrong if anything?
...
Wow.... I can t imagine someone saying shit like this in real life. It is so obvious that you are full of shit...
You should be a politician if you are not already.
Paul
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Well, Whooter, you said that you did, and that if I was not on the same page, it was only because my limited world-view was being threatened.
Paul
If I recall the conversation at all I was referring to a kid I knew in public school who rubbed his feces all over the inside of the stall, so the teacher wouldn't let him use the bathroom after that and he crapped in his pants. But I dont see that as a public school issue, I dont conclude from this that "all" public schools keep "all" the kids from using the bathrooms.
Its not my way of thinking. I see it as an issue with the one student and his teacher and didnt reflect at all on the policies of the Public school system in the United States.
Whooter.... Whooter.... Whooter....
I know distractions are kinda like your thing, but I'm not talking about that. I am talking about you telling someone who claims to have been starved, sleep-deprived, and force to shit their own pants at a program, that it was either because the staff were assholes, or that they did what they did only because he was an asshole who earned it.
See... when you don t take time to think, Whooter, you can sometimes reveal things about who you really are, that maybe you wish you hadn't.
This makes you a less then ideal representatives of programs that are supposed to help teens.
Paul St. John
Exactly, the staff was being an asshole or the kid was being an asshole or both. Just like the kid in public school. If the kid wasnt doing anything wrong then the teacher was clearly being an asshole. If the kid was rubbing his feces all over the inside of the stall then the kid was being an asshole and deserved to crap in his pants.
I think we have already addressed the various definitions of starved in this forum... one meaning that the kid was not allowed to eat pizza on pizza night and had to eat some crap the kitchen staff threw together.... sleep deprived could mean pulling an all nighter... or having a newborn in the house.
None of the definitions or causes were defined.. just I was forced to shit in my pants, starved and sleep deprived. Is it an industry problem, kid problem, staff issue? We dont know what the cause was, but because you dont like my thinking gives you the right to attack me for it? Why not question the guy who was forced to crap in his pants and find out what he did wrong if anything?
Wow.... I can t imagine someone saying shit like this in real life. It is so obvious that you are full of shit...
You should be a politician if you are not already.
Paul
Lol. Classic. Gotta looooove this place.
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Wow.... I can t imagine someone saying shit like this in real life. It is so obvious that you are full of shit...
You should be a politician if you are not already.
Paul
You just haven't been here very long, Paul. I heard one kid say it was abusive because the staff removed the salt from the table. If someone says they were sleep deprived, starved or had to crap in their pants, you cant just assume the program or staff were at fault or did anything wrong. You should ask what they mean by their statement. To me starved means severe weight loss, sleep deprived means a systemic daily loss of sleep and being forced to crap in your pants raises the concern that something more was going on. Why didnt they let him go to the bathroom?
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Whooter wrote:
You just haven't been here very long, Paul. I heard one kid say it was abusive because the staff removed the salt from the table. If someone says they were sleep deprived, starved or had to crap in their pants, you cant just assume the program or staff were at fault or did anything wrong. You should ask what they mean by their statement. To me starved means severe weight loss, sleep deprived means a systemic daily loss of sleep and being forced to crap in your pants raises the concern that something more was going on. Why didnt they let him go to the bathroom?
John I'm amazed you feel this way. It wasn't so long ago you were confronted with the fact that HLA participated in these very practices. You dismissed the claims of not just abuse survivors, but staff members who coroborated the starvation diet claim.
Why the change of heart?
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Whooter wrote:
If I were attending a meeting with fornits posters then that must mean I enjoy meeting with them. If you consider fornits part of the TBS industry then I guess we are all part of it. Did you enjoy your meeting with the TBS industry in Newark? lol
You're skirting the question John, If you have no connection to the industry, why would you attend a meeting to evaluate the safety of it? Whether you enjoy meeting fornits posters has nothing to do with that.
To answer your question; Yes, I enjoyed meeting with other TBS abuse survivors.
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Whooter wrote:
If I were attending a meeting with fornits posters then that must mean I enjoy meeting with them. If you consider fornits part of the TBS industry then I guess we are all part of it. Did you enjoy your meeting with the TBS industry in Newark? lol
To answer your question; Yes, I enjoyed meeting with other TBS abuse survivors.
To answer your question; Yes, I enjoyed meeting with TBS survivors from fornits.
If you had no connection with the industry then why would you travel to Newark to discuss how many people attend these programs? I think you decided on 20,000 was it? Were there edcons and industry players there? My meeting consisted of just fornits people.
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You're still not answering the question John, a common avoidance tactic for you whenever you've painted yourself info a corner.
If you have no connection to the TBS industry why would you meet with fornits posters, or anyone else to discuss it's safety or form statistic groups connected to it? Simply stating that you enjoy meeting with fornits posters has nothing to do with the topic you claimed to discuss.
That would be like stating you have a number of Jewish friends, so you decide to attend a annual Holocaust survivors meeting. Why? You weren't there, and you have no connection to it.
To again answer your question: As a survivor of the TBS industry I have a connection to it, I suffered under it. Having a connection does not limit itself to only those like yourself who have a fiduciary interest to the industry. And no, there were no ed cons or industry shills like yourself even invited. The meeting consisted soley of former inmates/survivors.
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Looks like you missed this one John:
Whooter wrote:
You just haven't been here very long, Paul. I heard one kid say it was abusive because the staff removed the salt from the table. If someone says they were sleep deprived, starved or had to crap in their pants, you cant just assume the program or staff were at fault or did anything wrong. You should ask what they mean by their statement. To me starved means severe weight loss, sleep deprived means a systemic daily loss of sleep and being forced to crap in your pants raises the concern that something more was going on. Why didnt they let him go to the bathroom?
John I'm amazed you feel this way. It wasn't so long ago you were confronted with the fact that HLA participated in these very practices. You dismissed the claims of not just abuse survivors, but staff members who coroborated the starvation diet claim.
Why the change of heart?
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You're still not answering the question John, a common avoidance tactic for you whenever you've painted yourself info a corner.
If you have no connection to the TBS industry why would you meet with fornits posters, or anyone else to discuss it's safety or form statistic groups connected to it? Simply stating that you enjoy meeting with fornits posters has nothing to do with the topic you claimed to discuss.
That would be like stating you have a number of Jewish friends, so you decide to attend a annual Holocaust survivors meeting. Why? You weren't there, and you have no connection to it.
To again answer your question: As a survivor of the TBS industry I have a connection to it, I suffered under it. Having a connection does not limit itself to only those like yourself who have a fiduciary interest to the industry. And no, there were no ed cons or industry shills like yourself even invited. The meeting consisted soley of former inmates/survivors.
We both have connections to the industry..you attended a program and I had a daughter attend one. We are both interested enough to seek out information about the industry. That is one of the reasons I am here. It clearly states in my post that I met with fornits posters, it didn’t mention that industry people were there. I think you may be reading into this a bit much.
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John, let's not go back to this make believe daughter. You had two sons, one of whom you murdered. That aside that still doesn't asnwer the question as to why you would meet with fornits posters to form a statistical group to discuss safety in the TBS.
You're also still avoiding the question regarding the starvation diet HLA used as a form of punishment. You claim to condone the practice now, yet it wasn't so long ago you dismissed it out of hand.
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John, let's not go back to this make believe daughter. You had two sons, one of whom you murdered. That aside that still doesn't asnwer the question as to why you would meet with fornits posters to form a statistical group to discuss safety in the TBS.
You're also still avoiding the question regarding the starvation diet HLA used as a form of punishment. You claim to condone the practice now, yet it wasn't so long ago you dismissed it out of hand.
RobertBruce, you are writing gibberish.....first, why would you travel to Newark, NJ to attend a meeting with TTI people when you have no connect to the industry or never went to a program? How could just friends agree upon the number 20,000? You must have had industry buy in on that.Why was the meeting kept so secret if you claim to be open and honest here on fornits? Why do you refer to yourself as a survivor if you never went to a program? That doesn't make any sense to me. Until you can answer that and straighten out your post I cant see how we can move forward with an honest discussion.
Here take a look:
RobertBruce wrote: You are correct. The number 20,000 was given as a rough estimate as to how many kids were locked up in the PTS. It was agreed upon at a secret meeting a number of us attended at the Newark Hilton. Punch was served. If you have another number I'd be more than willing to add it to a seperate spread sheet and include it in later data.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=246657#p246657)
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"Fiduciary interest in Aspen Education"
"Chaired TTI meetings about 'where the real money is, the TBS industry'"
"Saw 'the screening process firsthand' and 'kids being rejected'"
"Had access to RobertBruce's 'treatment records from HLA'"
"Formed 'statistical group to assess the safety of TBSs'"
"Children are products, parents are customers"
Sorry, Whooter, but all of this does add up. Maybe one bit here or there is an anomaly, but these facts plus many too more to list accompanied by your dogged defense of abusive Aspen programs and five years' worth of posting under several usernames to either promote abusive programs or degrade anyone who speaks out against them...? It just doesn't fit your "just a regular parent" line. No "regular parent" would behave like you do.
Whooter is a TTI industry man and Fornits troll. Everyone should keep this in mind when reading his drivel.
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Hmmm..... Wonder why DJ is so mad this morning?
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I think DJ is upset because this study was released and he cant make it go away.
We have come a long way. A few weeks ago many people had never heard of the Residential Treatment Outcome Study performed by Canyon Research. They looked at close to 1,000 children and families and found that the programs studied where up to 80% effective.
Dysfunction junction and myself managed to put the spot light on this study over the past day or two and were able to nail down that the study was indeed independent and was overseen by an independent third party in the form of a Review Board (WIRB). From WIRB’s documents:
The IRB also reviews the consent form (which they did for the Aspen Study) for the research to make sure that it is accurate. If it approves the research, the IRB continues to review the ongoing research after it starts. (This is called oversight).
WIRB reviewed the consent forms and approved the study and issued “Certificates of approval” as was pointed out in the study itself and presented to the APA.
Here are some supportive links and information as we stand today:
Residential Treatment Outcome-Study (http://http://www.scribd.com/doc/503084/Residential-Treatment-Outcomes-Study)
Canyon Research & Consulting (http://http://canyonrc.com/home.html): Independent research company that conducted the study.
** Western Institutional Review Board (http://http://www.wirb.com/): Independent board that approved research and audited the study.
The Western Institutional Review Board approved consent/assent forms and issued Certificates of Approval for the study.
Here are copies of their "Certificate of Approval" forms
Sample 1 (http://http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:SJ436FlS-UwJ:molyneaux.us/Global_SUIE/IRB/Molyneaux_CertificateofApprovalforStudy1095420,PanelMeeting50369,WO14797321.PDF+wirb+certificate+of+approval+form&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShpURqHUvjacM32lv8YRLav1O46MVidLLeYkoKcUS-jxsOFqB5szt1UtVUEngO8WsxhZGVamNX420U_0NRuxxcKjuR1PIu0LYRdnudeAzaql_WAJZALLKzLRT4WLjxUkhxd7-l8&sig=AHIEtbRwui-be51KikeuSb7i4alS80Pbpw)
Sample 2 (http://http://www.cmagtracker.org/WIRB/Approval.PDF)
at the bottom of page 2 it states:
Federal regulations require that WIRB conduct continuing review of approved research. You will receive Continuing
Review Report forms from WIRB. These reports must be returned even though your study may not have started.
The above study was presented at the American Psychological Association (APA) conference 2006. ** As a disclaimer Dysfunction Junction of fornits was mistaken the first time when he said WIRB never heard of the study. What he meant was he called WIRB and they did hear of the study but said they only approved the Questionnaire. So we need to consider DJs' input/opinion against the published facts.
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No, but it would be convenient for you if that were true. I think most people just see this as a way for you to deflect from the facts you can't avoid. The study has been thoroughly discussed and there's not much more to say about it.
However... You have made some claims here that lead only to three possible conclusions from reasonable people:
1. You are an employee of a program or the parent organization for it, namely Aspen Education
2. You are an unmitigated liar and complete phony
3. Both 1 and 2
Either way...
I believe it is actually you that gets "upset" and "angry" about these facts because you have a financial stake in Aspen Education (remember, you claimed to be a fiduciary of same) and when I or others point out that everything you say here traces back to your business interests you become less credible (at this point you are totally incredible).
Most readers here are reasonable and they can easily connect the dots. Your trying to avoid their conclusions via attacking other posters, derailing, obfuscating or otherwise dissembling is just a symptom of who you are and where you make your money. When you feel someone is trying to break your rice bowl by legitimately pointing out proven facts about Aspen Education or the TTI in general you quite literally become unhinged and fly off the handle. People notice this. People also notice your obsession to reply to any criticism, no matter how minor, and take note that your idea of winning an argument is simply to have the last word, even through repetitive spamming day and night.
Add all this up and what the average person reading here is impressed with is that you are the most desperate, unsophisticated and low-brow of shills.
Don't shoot the messenger because you shot yourself in the foot. Maybe you should change usernames again to try to start fresh. This persona is cooked.
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Thank you, DJ, I will take that as an admission that the study is valid and received oversight from a third party review board.
I think what you needed was a little time to read it and it would eventually sink in and you would come around to face the facts.
Residential Treatment Outcome-Study (http://http://www.scribd.com/doc/503084/Residential-Treatment-Outcomes-Study)
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Edited for duplicate post.
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See below, underlined:
No, but it would be convenient for you if that were true. I think most people just see this as a way for you to deflect from the facts you can't avoid. The study has been thoroughly discussed and there's not much more to say about it.
However... You have made some claims here that lead only to three possible conclusions from reasonable people:
1. You are an employee of a program or the parent organization for it, namely Aspen Education
2. You are an unmitigated liar and complete phony
3. Both 1 and 2
Either way...
I believe it is actually you that gets "upset" and "angry" about these facts because you have a financial stake in Aspen Education (remember, you claimed to be a fiduciary of same) and when I or others point out that everything you say here traces back to your business interests you become less credible (at this point you are totally incredible).
Most readers here are reasonable and they can easily connect the dots. Your trying to avoid their conclusions via attacking other posters, derailing, obfuscating or otherwise dissembling is just a symptom of who you are and where you make your money. When you feel someone is trying to break your rice bowl by legitimately pointing out proven facts about Aspen Education or the TTI in general you quite literally become unhinged and fly off the handle. People notice this. People also notice your obsession to reply to any criticism, no matter how minor, and take note that your idea of winning an argument is simply to have the last word, even through repetitive spamming day and night.
Add all this up and what the average person reading here is impressed with is that you are the most desperate, unsophisticated and low-brow of shills.
Don't shoot the messenger because you shot yourself in the foot. Maybe you should change usernames again to try to start fresh. This persona is cooked.
Alternatively, click here (http://http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLG_enUS312US312&q=behrens+study).
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lol, you are so predictable. Everytime you lose an argument you start taking pot shots at the person and calling them names or trying to discredit them. You are like a little kid.
DJ: Oh No! Whooter is a liar and has fiduciary interests and meetings with the TTI. He cant be just a parent because he just out smarted me in a debate once again. He must be an employee of Aspen Education.
Thank you, DJ, I will take that as an admission that the study is valid and received oversight from a third party review board.
I think what you needed was a little time to read it and it would eventually sink in and you would come around to face the facts.
Residential Treatment Outcome-Study (http://http://www.scribd.com/doc/503084/Residential-Treatment-Outcomes-Study)
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I definitely didn't lose any arguments to you, unless, like I said, you consider spam trolling "winning." But whatever. You can try to change the subject but it won't go away. You wasted five years of your life here only to have no credibility or effect.
See below, underlined:
No, but it would be convenient for you if that were true. I think most people just see this as a way for you to deflect from the facts you can't avoid. The study has been thoroughly discussed and there's not much more to say about it.
However... You have made some claims here that lead only to three possible conclusions from reasonable people:
1. You are an employee of a program or the parent organization for it, namely Aspen Education
2. You are an unmitigated liar and complete phony
3. Both 1 and 2
Either way...
I believe it is actually you that gets "upset" and "angry" about these facts because you have a financial stake in Aspen Education (remember, you claimed to be a fiduciary of same) and when I or others point out that everything you say here traces back to your business interests you become less credible (at this point you are totally incredible).
Most readers here are reasonable and they can easily connect the dots. Your trying to avoid their conclusions via attacking other posters, derailing, obfuscating or otherwise dissembling is just a symptom of who you are and where you make your money. When you feel someone is trying to break your rice bowl by legitimately pointing out proven facts about Aspen Education or the TTI in general you quite literally become unhinged and fly off the handle. People notice this. People also notice your obsession to reply to any criticism, no matter how minor, and take note that your idea of winning an argument is simply to have the last word, even through repetitive spamming day and night.
Add all this up and what the average person reading here is impressed with is that you are the most desperate, unsophisticated and low-brow of shills.
Don't shoot the messenger because you shot yourself in the foot. Maybe you should change usernames again to try to start fresh. This persona is cooked.
Alternatively, click here (http://http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4GGLG_enUS312US312&q=behrens+study).
You can take it how you want to, but others take it like above. It's all in your own owrds, son. Don't get mad at me for quoting the things you wish you never said...
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"Fiduciary interest in Aspen Education"
"Chaired TTI meetings about 'where the real money is, the TBS industry'"
"Saw 'the screening process firsthand' and 'kids being rejected'"
"Had access to RobertBruce's 'treatment records from HLA'"
"Formed 'statistical group to assess the safety of TBSs'"
"Children are products, parents are customers"
Sorry, Whooter, but all of this does add up. Maybe one bit here or there is an anomaly, but these facts plus many too more to list accompanied by your dogged defense of abusive Aspen programs and five years' worth of posting under several usernames to either promote abusive programs or degrade anyone who speaks out against them...? It just doesn't fit your "just a regular parent" line. No "regular parent" would behave like you do.
Whooter is a TTI industry man and Fornits troll. Everyone should keep this in mind when reading his drivel.
Yep, it's still there ; )
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lol, you are so predictable. Everytime you lose an argument you start taking pot shots at the person and calling them names or trying to discredit them. You are like a little kid.
DJ: Oh No! Whooter is a liar and has fiduciary interests and meetings with the TTI. He cant be just a parent because he just out smarted me in a debate once again. He must be an employee of Aspen Education.
Thank you, DJ, I will take that as an admission that the study is valid and received oversight from a third party review board.
I think what you needed was a little time to read it and it would eventually sink in and you would come around to face the facts.
Residential Treatment Outcome-Study (http://http://www.scribd.com/doc/503084/Residential-Treatment-Outcomes-Study)
...
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Whootie is a dam thorn in my side. He never lets me win an argument with his constant posting and never ending logic so the only thing I can do is try to discredit him. We all know he has meetings in Chicago with Industry people to discuss where the money is and sits in on the admissions process and admits openly that he has a fiduciary duty to them. He was responsible for killing one of his own sons. How many people do this and then claim to be normal parents?
Calm down, DJ, its not the end of the world. You yourself quoted the study many times and found some information which was not so favorable to the industry so don’t take it so hard. The industry isn’t perfect which supports your claim, they are only 80% effective which means 20% of the kids don’t do well. So keep your head up.
Residential Treatment Outcome-Study (http://http://www.scribd.com/doc/503084/Residential-Treatment-Outcomes-Study)
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Whootie is a dam thorn in my side. He never lets me win an argument with his constant posting and never ending logic so the only thing I can do is try to discredit him. We all know he has meetings in Chicago with Industry people to discuss where the money is and sits in on the admissions process and admits openly that he has a fiduciary duty to them. He was responsible for killing one of his own sons. How many people do this and then claim to be normal parents?
...
I'm like a "little kid"? Lols. How about a link to the above then? See, Whooter, this is what you do. You've been called out for what you have posted while logged in with your username and you try to counter that by making up "quotes" by others.
Although I agree with the spirit of what you made up above (only about your TTI connections, not the rest), I didn't say it. You, OTOH, did say all the things I posted and I provided links to them many times before. Here, take a look:
When is this supposed to take place?
Well the announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.
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How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as “Tippingâ€
Link to Whooter's OP about his "fiduciary duty". (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/posting.php?mode=quote&f=41&p=283976)
And all you can do in response is troll me with phony "quotes" and no links to the OP's. You only prove my point each time you do this. You're a phony! :rofl: :roflmao:
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Oh no no no Cindy, you claimed there was a "long debate" and that it was decided that "we" were only going to look at TBS's as you define them.
Who specifically is "we"?
The debate was long, Bob... many wanted to start with "Wilderness data" and I argued that the real money was in the TBS industry, so lets start there, although wilderness is usually the inital phase of any decent TBS. So we went round and round....you, Bob have been a key player in collecting and presenting data on the entire industry and I have been focusing on small segments at a time.
I dont want to put names out there, people want to be anon's.
Is this "where the real money is" Whooter? Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/posting.php?mode=quote&f=9&p=245461) What a phony!
I could go on...
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Whootie is a dam thorn in my side. He never lets me win an argument with his constant posting and never ending logic so the only thing I can do is try to discredit him. We all know he has meetings in Chicago with Industry people to discuss where the money is and sits in on the admissions process and admits openly that he has a fiduciary duty to them. He was responsible for killing one of his own sons. How many people do this and then claim to be normal parents?
Calm down, DJ, its not the end of the world. You yourself quoted the study many times and found some information which was not so favorable to the industry so don’t take it so hard. The industry isn’t perfect which supports your claim, they are only 80% effective which means 20% of the kids don’t do well. So keep your head up.
Residential Treatment Outcome-Study (http://http://www.scribd.com/doc/503084/Residential-Treatment-Outcomes-Study)
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How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is".
I thought you said you had a Masters in Business Administration? MBA
Screw you whootie, I have more degrees than you do. Your an industry shill. I could have figured out the math too because yes I did get my MBA, its just that my calculator on my laptop is not functioning.
Look, DJ, calm down. You are the one claiming that I must have all this inside knowledge because I can figure out that TBS's cost more than Wilderness therapy. I just did the math for you thats all. If you feel only industry people have that type of knowledge than that is your right to think that way. I just think your wrong thats all. Any person claiming to have an MBA should be able to figure where the real money is between TBS and Wilderness.
Just stating my opinion, thats all.
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Ooohhhhweeee.... Watch Whooter implode. For someone who likes to say "provide a link or it never happened!" and claim everything people catch you on is "fabricated" you're getting pretty loose. I sense big time BAWWW :cry: .
Just for the record, I supplied links for all of my quotes about Whooter and he provided none. What's even funnier is that Whooter's made up quotes have all the little grammar and spelling errors he makes all the time, too. It's like you're not even trying anymore, troll boy.
Your an industry shill.
You know I don't roll like that with the homonyms, Whooter. See what happens when you try to pose as an educated person?
Exactly, the customer is the parent, the product is the child.
link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=16007&hilit=chicago&start=1395#p245213)
Can't escape this past of yours, Whooter. No matter how many quotes you fabricate.
You can pretend to have called anyone you want. But I placed the facts up here with links and you have nothing to dispute it except a fabricated phone call.
:waaaa: :waaaa: :waaaa: link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=30808&p=370261&hilit=+fabricated#p370261)
Where are those links now I wonder?
Based on the fabricatedPM's he was caught presenting I think it is important to ask for proof.
:waaaa: :waaaa: Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=30793&p=369836&hilit=+fabricated#p369836)
Dang, Whooter, everybody here is "fabricating" everything, huh? Looks like you're the only one caught doing it though. :rofl: :roflmao:
Sixteen instances of Whooter charging "fabrication" (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/search.php?st=0&sk=t&sd=d&sr=posts&author_id=5558) and that's just in the past couple of months! Can you say "projection," Whooter? :beat: :agree:
Let's not forget this PM you sent me either:
You are so naive to think you could convince everyone I wrote that email (you fabricated) but you fucked up big time...I am just a login name on the internet. I am your worst nightmare and you cant get rid of me no matter how hard you try (or lie).
Oooohhhh...Whooter MAD :flame:
See what I mean, dum dum? You gave everyone all this ammunition and now you're going to cry and lie just because someone unloaded the mag on you?
Show me the LINKS, crybaby! :cry: :cry: :cry: Where's the PROOF?
Epic lulz ensued...
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lol, DJ, every time you get pinched you start taking pot shots at people and jumping up and down claiming you are more degrees then they do. I merely pointed out that you probably didnt have an MBA because you never knew that TBS cost over ten times more than a Wilderness program. This is basic math that you can do in your head and you replied with:
Screw you whootie, I have more degrees than you do. Your an industry shill. I could have figured out the math too because yes I did get my MBA, its just that my calculator on my laptop is not functioning.
Whoops! we have a link to where you stated that:
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=371955#p371955)
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Funny, that looks like a link to the last time you posted that fabrication. Where's the original post, Whooter? Credibility? ZERO. Time to make a new username to try to shed your shabby past...
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How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is"
You have thought that since I “knew where the real money was” then that meant I was an industry person. But what it really revealed is that there is a really good chance that you never earned an MBA to not figure out basic business math like that. Anyone with any business knowledge could figure that out in their head, DJ. So you see you shot yourself in the foot by claiming only and industry person could figure this out and by saying that you showed us that you had no business degree.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=371955#p371955)
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lol, DJ, every time you get pinched you start taking pot shots at people and jumping up and down claiming you are more degrees then they do. I merely pointed out that you probably didnt have an MBA because you never knew that TBS cost over ten times more than a Wilderness program. This is basic math that you can do in your head and you replied with:
Screw you whootie, I have more degrees than you do. Your an industry shill. I could have figured out the math too because yes I did get my MBA, its just that my calculator on my laptop is not functioning.
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Ooopsie! Caught again in another fabrication! Here's the OP where you were talking to RB and I wasn't involved in the thread at all. Awww...poor Whooter...ever the victim of "fabrication" :rofl:
Oh no no no Cindy, you claimed there was a "long debate" and that it was decided that "we" were only going to look at TBS's as you define them.
Who specifically is "we"?
The debate was long, Bob... many wanted to start with "Wilderness data" and I argued that the real money was in the TBS industry, so lets start there, although wilderness is usually the inital phase of any decent TBS. So we went round and round....you, Bob have been a key player in collecting and presenting data on the entire industry and I have been focusing on small segments at a time.
I dont want to put names out there, people want to be anon's.
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How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is".
I thought you said you had a Masters in Business Administration? MBA
Screw you whootie, I have more degrees than you do. Your an industry shill. I could have figured out the math too because yes I did get my MBA, its just that my calculator on my laptop is not functioning.
Look, DJ, calm down. You are the one claiming that I must have all this inside knowledge because I can figure out that TBS's cost more than Wilderness therapy. I just did the math for you thats all. If you feel only industry people have that type of knowledge than that is your right to think that way. I just think your wrong thats all. Any person claiming to have an MBA should be able to figure where the real money is between TBS and Wilderness.
Just stating my opinion, thats all.
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Of course you did not find anything. As stated previously the entire thread is gone. This has happened to a lot of data in the 2 moved which have just occured. The who deleted his post claiming that he repaid his debt to society but the entire thread has been removed.
Th Anne bonney, unfortunately you are wrong. I wish that you were not. I am not the who. I genuinely recall seeing this post. it is extremely frustrating that it appears to no longer exist as it is information that any parent should be aware of when reading this bastard's posts.
Hey, I'm not saying it did or didn't happen and that is damned frustrating. He's the only one who can do that. I was just presenting a theory. I wish there was some way to retrieve it. Have you contacted Ginger or anyone else through PMs to see if there is any chance? There must at least be a Google 'cached' page?? I have no idea what I'm talking about so someone tell me if that's not possible.
Hey. Let's try this.
The Who.....have you ever been charged with lewd and lascivious behavior or child molestation or anything similar? Anything in that realm? This is your chance to state, unequivocally one way or the other what your side of the story is. Or do you not want to 'go on record' so to speak, denying it in case you're proven wrong later? I really have no fucking clue.
Hi Anne, seems I am on the hot seat:
Actually I do have a record...I was arrested several times in Boston and once in Ann Arbor Michigan...I will never forget they separated me from the others for some reason and I ended up in a cell with 5 other people. This one hue black guy who was obviously drunk out of his mind kept falling asleep and then falling off his bench...he would then wake up and look right at me and say something like : if you push me again white boy I will "F" you up so much even your mother will not love you..... I was so scared...
Lols. Whooter does the crime and then craps his pants in jail (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23338&p=284895&hilit=+arrest#p284869). Awww...another BAWWW sesion.
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How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is".
I thought you said you had a Masters in Business Administration? MBA
Screw you whootie, I have more degrees than you do. Your an industry shill. I could have figured out the math too because yes I did get my MBA, its just that my calculator on my laptop is not functioning.
Look, DJ, calm down. You are the one claiming that I must have all this inside knowledge because I can figure out that TBS's cost more than Wilderness therapy. I just did the math for you thats all. If you feel only industry people have that type of knowledge than that is your right to think that way. I just think your wrong thats all. Any person claiming to have an MBA should be able to figure where the real money is between TBS and Wilderness.
Just stating my opinion, thats all.
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Ha,Ha,Ha
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Of course you did not find anything. As stated previously the entire thread is gone. This has happened to a lot of data in the 2 moved which have just occured. The who deleted his post claiming that he repaid his debt to society but the entire thread has been removed.
Th Anne bonney, unfortunately you are wrong. I wish that you were not. I am not the who. I genuinely recall seeing this post. it is extremely frustrating that it appears to no longer exist as it is information that any parent should be aware of when reading this bastard's posts.
Hey, I'm not saying it did or didn't happen and that is damned frustrating. He's the only one who can do that. I was just presenting a theory. I wish there was some way to retrieve it. Have you contacted Ginger or anyone else through PMs to see if there is any chance? There must at least be a Google 'cached' page?? I have no idea what I'm talking about so someone tell me if that's not possible.
Hey. Let's try this.
The Who.....have you ever been charged with lewd and lascivious behavior or child molestation or anything similar? Anything in that realm? This is your chance to state, unequivocally one way or the other what your side of the story is. Or do you not want to 'go on record' so to speak, denying it in case you're proven wrong later? I really have no fucking clue.
Hi Anne, seems I am on the hot seat:
Actually I do have a record...I was arrested several times in Boston and once in Ann Arbor Michigan...I will never forget they separated me from the others for some reason and I ended up in a cell with 5 other people. This one hue black guy who was obviously drunk out of his mind kept falling asleep and then falling off his bench...he would then wake up and look right at me and say something like : if you push me again white boy I will "F" you up so much even your mother will not love you..... I was so scared...
Lols. Whooter does the crime and then craps his pants in jail (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=23338&p=284895&hilit=+arrest#p284869). Awww...another BAWWW sesion.
Which part is funnier? Your criminal record you lied about or the fact that you got punked in jail and crapped your drawers?
I think many readers would agree that the latter is what shapes your need to try to "punk" others on a message board even if you have to lie to try to make people look bad so they won't take a good look at you.
Poor Whooter got punked by a "huge black guy" in jail. He was scawed! Bwack people are so scawy!
:waaaa: :waaaa: :waaaa:
You're a phony and a punk. :roflmao:
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Why is it so important that to you that people on fornits view you as educated? It doesn’t matter if you went to school or not this is an open forum for everyone not just those who have college degrees.
Screw you whootie, you are nothing but an industry sock puppet who killed one of his sons by placing him in an abusive facility. I could have figured all that math out before you even woke up in the morning. I can run circles around you and everyone on this forum knows that. You are alone, no one listens to your dribble anyway. I am more educated than you are and more educated than most people who post here and that is what people see. I have listed my credentials on fornits.
Here is a link:
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
Try to bust that up my friend, those are facts
Jeesh, DJ calm down and think for a minute. If you remember, just before you posted all your education history you went back 5 years and changed all your past posts to reflect your present image of yourself. Why not just be honest? who cares if you have degrees or not. Why not just express your opinion without attacking people all the time?
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"Crappy pants" is trying to shift the focus off his criminal record.
Don't be afraid of the truth. The truth is not a "huge scary black guy" you met in jail. Phonying up quotes won't change the facts that I have linked to and you have not and can not. It only shows how desperate you are and that you are a lying phony. The more you do it, the more you are exposed as the lying shill that you are.
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How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is".
I thought you said you had a Masters in Business Administration? MBA
Screw you whootie, I have more degrees than you do. Your an industry shill. I could have figured out the math too because yes I did get my MBA, its just that my calculator on my laptop is not functioning.
Look, DJ, calm down. You are the one claiming that I must have all this inside knowledge because I can figure out that TBS's cost more than Wilderness therapy. I just did the math for you thats all. If you feel only industry people have that type of knowledge than that is your right to think that way. I just think your wrong thats all. Any person claiming to have an MBA should be able to figure where the real money is between TBS and Wilderness.
Just stating my opinion, thats all.
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Got caught admitting to chairing a TTI meeting and coaching your peers to go after the big bucks. You said it. Can't blame me, skidmark.
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Jeesh, DJ calm down and think for a minute. If you remember, just before you posted all your education history you went back 5 years and changed all your past posts to reflect your present image of yourself. Why not just be honest? who cares if you have degrees or not. Why not just express your opinion without attacking people all the time?
STFU, I never went back and edited my posts. I was just giving an update of my education history so people could see I know what I am talking about. I challenge you to find any posts which I edited before I posted my education history. You are such a sockpuppet, Whooter.
You "did" edit your posts to deceive the readers again, DJ, and you went back 5 years and cleaned all your posts to make sure your present education lies were covered. You cant hide it because all edited posts carry a time stamp. I will see if I can find one, hold on.
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Oops. I provided links to every original post. Skidmark is inventing a rolling dialogue with himself. Whooter is a dishonest phony? Say it isn't so! At least it's all being archived in the right thread.
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Whootie is a dam thorn in my side. He never lets me win an argument with his constant posting and never ending logic so the only thing I can do is try to discredit him. We all know he has meetings in Chicago with Industry people to discuss where the money is and sits in on the admissions process and admits openly that he has a fiduciary duty to them. He was responsible for killing one of his own sons. How many people do this and then claim to be normal parents?
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I'm like a "little kid"? Lols. How about a link to the above then? See, Whooter, this is what you do. You've been called out for what you have posted while logged in with your username and you try to counter that by making up "quotes" by others.
Although I agree with the spirit of what you made up above (only about your TTI connections, not the rest), I didn't say it. You, OTOH, did say all the things I posted and I provided links to them many times before. Here, take a look:
When is this supposed to take place?
Well the announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.
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How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as “Tippingâ€
Link to Whooter's OP about his "fiduciary duty". (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/posting.php?mode=quote&f=41&p=283976)
And all you can do in response is troll me with phony "quotes" and no links to the OP's. You only prove my point each time you do this. You're a phony! :rofl: :roflmao:
Click the link to view Whooter's OP admitting he's a fiduciary of Aspen Education. This is what has him trolling like mad now. But it won't go away...
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Jeesh, DJ calm down and think for a minute. If you remember, just before you posted all your education history you went back 5 years and changed all your past posts to reflect your present image of yourself. Why not just be honest? who cares if you have degrees or not. Why not just express your opinion without attacking people all the time?
STFU, I never went back and edited my posts. I was just giving an update of my education history so people could see I know what I am talking about. I challenge you to find any posts which I edited before I posted my education history. You are such a sockpuppet, Whooter.
You "did" edit your posts to deceive the readers again, DJ, and you went back 5 years and cleaned all your posts to make sure your present education lies were covered. You cant hide it because all edited posts carry a time stamp. I will see if I can find one, hold on.
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So what if I did, whootie, there is no way you could prove it.
Give me a minute
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Well, Whooter, you said that you did, and that if I was not on the same page, it was only because my limited world-view was being threatened.
Paul
If I recall the conversation at all I was referring to a kid I knew in public school who rubbed his feces all over the inside of the stall, so the teacher wouldn't let him use the bathroom after that and he crapped in his pants. But I dont see that as a public school issue, I dont conclude from this that "all" public schools keep "all" the kids from using the bathrooms.
Its not my way of thinking. I see it as an issue with the one student and his teacher and didnt reflect at all on the policies of the Public school system in the United States.
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Whooter.... Whooter.... Whooter....
I know distractions are kinda like your thing, but I'm not talking about that. I am talking about you telling someone who claims to have been starved, sleep-deprived, and force to shit their own pants at a program, that it was either because the staff were assholes, or that they did what they did only because he was an asshole who earned it.
See... when you don t take time to think, Whooter, you can sometimes reveal things about who you really are, that maybe you wish you hadn't.
This makes you a less then ideal representatives of programs that are supposed to help teens.
Paul St. John
Exactly, the staff was being an asshole or the kid was being an asshole or both. Just like the kid in public school. If the kid wasnt doing anything wrong then the teacher was clearly being an asshole. If the kid was rubbing his feces all over the inside of the stall then the kid was being an asshole and deserved to crap in his pants.
I think we have already addressed the various definitions of starved in this forum... one meaning that the kid was not allowed to eat pizza on pizza night and had to eat some crap the kitchen staff threw together.... sleep deprived could mean pulling an all nighter... or having a newborn in the house.
None of the definitions or causes were defined.. just I was forced to shit in my pants, starved and sleep deprived. Is it an industry problem, kid problem, staff issue? We dont know what the cause was, but because you dont like my thinking gives you the right to attack me for it? Why not question the guy who was forced to crap in his pants and find out what he did wrong if anything?
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Wow.... I can t imagine someone saying shit like this in real life. It is so obvious that you are full of shit...
You should be a politician if you are not already.
Paul
Whooter thinks kids being forced to shit their pants by denial of bathroom use, kids being starved (a legal definition, BTW) and kids being kept awake for two or three days during marathon workshops just might be the kid's fault. How could anyone be certain?
He's an asshole child abuse promoter and the biggest phony on Fornits.
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You have never heard any of us ask who you folks are...
If only that were true, Danny. For years here on Fornits people (to name a few - Whooter, Ottawa5, KarenInDallas) have been acutely interested in finding out who I am and their overt, explicit, openly stated goal has been "to get DJ fired from his job." You haven't been here long enough to know this history.
Not only do these people want to see me "discredited" on Fornits (obviously the truth hurts and they watched as a small number of us got HLA shut down which made them fear for their own precious programs), they also want me to be unemployed and unable to support my family. You think I'm an extremist? You ain't seen extreme, my friend.
I cant speak for Ottawa5 or Karenfromdallas but you can take me off that list. Anyone who has read my posts know I dont work towards getting someone fired or discrediting them. If there is a specific post which lead you to believe that was my intent you can put up a link and we can talk about it.
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Soooo...what's the deal with this running dialogue with yourself replete with phony quotes and no links? That's not an attempt to discredit someone. It's just being phony! :beat: :roflmao: :bs:
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Anyone who has read my posts know I dont work towards getting someone fired or discrediting them. If there is a specific post which lead you to believe that was my intent you can put up a link and we can talk about it.
See below. No links to the OP, just a link to Whooter's post. Let's talk about it, Whooter. Why did you lie in this post to try to discredit me?
How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is"
You have thought that since I “knew where the real money was” then that meant I was an industry person. But what it really revealed is that there is a really good chance that you never earned an MBA to not figure out basic business math like that. Anyone with any business knowledge could figure that out in their head, DJ. So you see you shot yourself in the foot by claiming only and industry person could figure this out and by saying that you showed us that you had no business degree.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=371955#p371955)
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Whooter is what he accuses others of. Funny, huh? And this guy expects people to believe what he says for what reason now?
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Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Why would you go back 5 years and started editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
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Anyone who has read my posts know I dont work towards getting someone fired or discrediting them. If there is a specific post which lead you to believe that was my intent you can put up a link and we can talk about it.
See below. No links to the OP, just a link to Whooter's post. Let's talk about it, Whooter. Why did you lie in this post to try to discredit me?
How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is"
You have thought that since I “knew where the real money was” then that meant I was an industry person. But what it really revealed is that there is a really good chance that you never earned an MBA to not figure out basic business math like that. Anyone with any business knowledge could figure that out in their head, DJ. So you see you shot yourself in the foot by claiming only and industry person could figure this out and by saying that you showed us that you had no business degree.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=371955#p371955)
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Whooter is what he accuses others of. Funny, huh? And this guy expects people to believe what he says for what reason now?
Were you lying when you said you didn't act this way, Whooter? It appears so.
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Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Why would you go back 5 years and started editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
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I'll let you in on the joke now, Whooter, since you've embarrassed yourself so thoroughly. Take a look.
Original post from March 27, 2005: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
On 2005-03-27 08:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"you know what? Not everyone had a bad experience with DV. You need to take a look at yourself and see why you did.
I admit that there were some things that were a little over the top, but you're talking about a different time, different epidemic and different training.
A TC is not only governed by the founders, but also by law. At the time places like Synanon was founded, there were no governing laws. yes, it was all about brainwashing, brain shocking, or whatever you want to call it, to make a person get off drugs. Ever see the movie " A Clockwork Orange?" Stanley Kubrick had it right. That's what happened back then. There were no laws governing what was supposed to be done.
It's much easier to treat the underlying problem of the epidemic. case in point, when you go into a treatment facility such as the intake facility where you stay for 3 or more weeks, you have detoxed whatever drugs are in your system. DV and other TC's took that a step further. They then treated the underlying problem. Whether it was family problems, peer pressure, etc.
As i stated before, when i was in DV, the main addition was heroin. Older people addicted to heroin for so many years that a TC was there last hope. And it worked.
Today, people are paroled to TC's, people use it as a way to stay out of jail and don't put in the time they need to deal with all the other bullshit that comes with dealing with the problem.
I've seen how DV changed to the times. I've seen how they have to treat the crackhead as opposed to the heroin addict. You can't apply a philosophy of "responsible, Love, & concern or "act as if" to a crackhead who is trying to stay out of jail. Those are a crackhead's manipulation tactics. That's all they know.
So DV and other TC's have had to change their ways of thinking and treatment. And yes, even in terms of terminology, they've had to change.
For example: The DV philosophy, used to be begin "we are" Not I. They changed to back in 86 because of the new wave of abusers coming in, crackheads. What used to be called members are now called residents. Do you see my point, idiot. It's about changing the way you treat the person. You can't treat a crackhead the same way you treat a heroin addict. It doesn't work. Heroin addicts actually have a heart.
Now you want to talk about staff. I recall reading someone saying that the reason old school staff are trying to push out the more educated is because they are afraid. And to a point, that person was correct. They are afraid of seeing DV change in a way that's not about the mission. The mission was and still is solid. But laws change and epidemics change.
Hep C is what DV used to have to deal with heroin addicts. Now they also have to deal AIDS. There are all kinds of laws now that says what you can and can't do with someone who had AIDS.
I'll never forget the first person who was diagnosed with AIDS at DV. His name was Sammy. He became the poster boy ( for lack of a better term) but he changed the way DV thought in terms of treating someone who was ill.
Look, i'm not saying that DV and other TC's are the greatest. You get out what you put in. I did my time old school style and obviously had a better experience than you young bucks did, but take it for what it's worth. Look at this way. People in the social services industry are not in it for the money. They go into it believing that they can make a difference. What they find is that the system is so screwed up that they're just one little insignificant cog on that big wheel of bullshit that is every evolving to more bullshit and they see that after time they can do one of two things, go with the program or get out. That's my advice to you, accept the change, chalk it up to a bad experience and move on. One more thing.
So am i still drinking the Kool-AID? Damn right, because i don't have to deal with the bullshit that you spout about your bad experiences and why you couldn't get with the program. So, are u still smoking crack? and tell me, how long was it before your first relapse?"
Firstly, let me begin by saying that you are awfully presumptuous referring to me as a "young buck" who had a "bad experience" at Daytop.
Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident. I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.
Secondly, having worked there, and not viewing the modality through rose-colored glasses, as you seem to, I know for a fact that Daytop is engaged in many illegal, unethical and immoral activities. This is not my opinion, this is fact.
Thirdly, go tell some of the victims of this place that it's ok what Frank Lanza did to them and that if they "knew him back then," they "would understand." Tell them they should have understanding about Frank's behavior and that it is ok to be abused, belittled, humiliated and put on "the chair" outside, overnight in winter. Or that it's ok (or legal)to suffer through full body searches by untrained "staff" in filthy rooms ("Pick up your balls. Open your ass"). Tell them that it's okay that there's a confessed murderer bunking in the rack next to them because it brings funds to the facility.
Fourthly, if you "spent the best days of (your) life in a treatment center," then you have had no life.
Conclusion: You are still drinking the Kool-Aid after all these years.
Sad, yes. True, indeed.
Same post quoted by Guest the same day (Guest's added his/her comments in parentheses in the quote of my post):
Link to identical text in guest post from the same day as my original post: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=7762&start=30#p91243)
Firstly, let me begin by saying that you are awfully presumptuous referring to me as a "young buck" who had a "bad experience" at Daytop.
(obviously you had a bad experience whether you worked there or was a resident or you would still be working there. I'm going to assume that you left on your own free will either because of money, seeing things you didn't like, etc.. hence my words, bad experience and just to clarify, my term of "young buck" doesn't refer to your age, but at the time in which you were affiliated with DV. If I'm not mistaken you said you worked with DV in 95. I had been affiliated with DV since '82, which meant to ME that i'm closer to the old school style of the way things were done than you were. If that offended you, then i apologize.)
Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident. I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.
(Well, i'm proud that you're educated. I'm not on a soap box because i have never experienced DV or any TC as an employee, but hell, they must be doing something right classically educated employees are still there)
Secondly, having worked there, and not viewing the modality through rose-colored glasses, as you seem to,
( of course i'm going to see some things through rose colored glasses, i lived it, at some point couldn't see outside it, it was all i knew at the time and i can't apologize for that),
I know for a fact that Daytop is engaged in many illegal, unethical and immoral activities. This is not my opinion, this is fact.
(and just out of curiosity, what if anything have you done about it? or did you just let injustices keep happening until you bailed?)
Thirdly, go tell some of the victims of this place that it's ok what Frank Lanza did to them and that if they "knew him back then," (never ever did i say what he did was right. That never came out in any of my writing. Maybe you are just too blinded by your hatred of Frank, DV or TC's in general that you need to read between the lines of something that i didn't say)
they "would understand." Tell them they should have understanding about Frank's behavior and that it is ok to be abused, belittled, humiliated and put on "the chair" outside, overnight in winter. Or that it's ok (or legal)to suffer through full body searches by untrained "staff" in filthy rooms ("Pick up your balls. Open your ass"). Tell them that it's okay that there's a confessed murderer bunking in the rack next to them because it brings funds to the facility.
(I personally hated body searches. I didn't agree with them and there were a few times i refused to do them. My alternative was to not be admitted to the program. Look, being subjected to a full body search is/was never okay by someone who didn't know what they were doing. It was a lesson in humility that happened once. When you got there. If you happened to leave (AWOL) and come back, yes, it was done again. For protection of all. You don't see it that way and probably never will. But you know what, the person getting screened has done worse on the streets using drugs, so WTF)
Fourthly, if you "spent the best days of (your) life in a treatment center," then you have had no life.
When i was in DV, it was rare that they accepted anyone who committed a violent crime, who was court-ordered. The problem is that it's the norm now for a criminal to be court-ordered to a TC if they have drug abuse in their history. Whose fault is that, the TC's).
Look as i said before, TC's are not for everyone and definitely not for today's drug users. Everyone who enters a TC seems to be coddled now, even down to the term "hard core drug user" to "substance abuser", what the hell is that all about. and if crackheads and methamp users aren't the worse users, tell me who is?
Tell me something, are you still in social services industry, or did you give it up because you were fighting a losing battle?
Conclusion: You are still drinking the Kool-Aid after all these years.
(your conclusion is based on nothing, so i won't even comment on that further. other than to say you have the right to your opinion as i have the right to mine. You see it from a clinical standpoint and i see it from someone whose lived through it. Yeah, we are going to see it differently)
Sad, yes. True, indeed.
The text in both posts is identical. A Guest's quote from 2005 is identical to my original post (oops). I suppose now you're going to say the anonymous guest with no ability to edit posts magically became able to edit posts and also "altered" a post from five years ago to match my "altered" post, lols. When are you going to learn, Whooter? I'm a chess player and you're a checker player.
See, Whooter, you are so desperate to "get" me that I easily wound you up like a top, set you off and watched you spin, controlling your actions like I had a joystick in my hand. Watched as you pulled out several identites and augured yourself into the ground, all while blissfully ignorant that the post was not changed at all. All I did in my original post was take out a period (which I reinserted today, for integrity's sake) so that the edit stamp would be there to get you drooling with delight thinking you cornered me on something and knowing full well you'd be too lazy to look one page ahead and see my post was quoted contemporaneously by a guest and we all know guest posts can't be edited.
Yeah, I shined you on for a bit, telling you I edited out my name so you would jump on that, poking fun at your "timeline," shifting the focus, etc. simply so you would go into overdrive with your compulsion, just to watch you make a fool out of yourself again. Please feel free to go back and compare the text of both posts and tell me exactly how mine was "altered." You're too easy, man. I hope you learned something from this exercise. You played yourself again. Keep flailing away. It's funny.
[edited to add url at top of post - don't want Whooter getting all riled up over the edit stamp ; ) ]
Well, there goes that theory - post is identical as the guest quoted five years ago. You still don't get it, Whooter. I can get you to act this way any time I want. I did it to you again today and here you are still trolling and making up phony "quotes." You only damage yourself. You're a phony troll.
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"Fiduciary interest in Aspen Education"
"Chaired TTI meetings about 'where the real money is, the TBS industry'"
"Saw 'the screening process firsthand' and 'kids being rejected'"
"Had access to RobertBruce's 'treatment records from HLA'"
"Formed 'statistical group to assess the safety of TBSs'"
"Children are products, parents are customers"
Sorry, Whooter, but all of this does add up. Maybe one bit here or there is an anomaly, but these facts plus many too more to list accompanied by your dogged defense of abusive Aspen programs and five years' worth of posting under several usernames to either promote abusive programs or degrade anyone who speaks out against them...? It just doesn't fit your "just a regular parent" line. No "regular parent" would behave like you do.
Whooter is a TTI industry man and Fornits troll. Everyone should keep this in mind when reading his drivel.
This little post, with nothing but truth in it, set off Whooter on his latest trolling spree, as I knew it would. I tell the truth about what he has admitted and he is kept busy for a whole day embarassing himself again and again. He's easy to control because he has a sickness that is on display here now.
Keep this in mind when he's trying to pretend to be "just a regular parent."
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Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Why would you go back 5 years and started editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
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How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is"
You have thought that since I “knew where the real money was” then that meant I was an industry person. But what it really revealed is that there is a really good chance that you never earned an MBA to not figure out basic business math like that. Anyone with any business knowledge could figure that out in their head, DJ. So you see you shot yourself in the foot by claiming only and industry person could figure this out and by saying that you showed us that you had no business degree.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=371955#p371955)
...
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I'll let you in on the joke now, Whooter, since you've embarrassed yourself so thoroughly. Take a look.
Original post from March 27, 2005: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
On 2005-03-27 08:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"you know what? Not everyone had a bad experience with DV. You need to take a look at yourself and see why you did.
I admit that there were some things that were a little over the top, but you're talking about a different time, different epidemic and different training.
A TC is not only governed by the founders, but also by law. At the time places like Synanon was founded, there were no governing laws. yes, it was all about brainwashing, brain shocking, or whatever you want to call it, to make a person get off drugs. Ever see the movie " A Clockwork Orange?" Stanley Kubrick had it right. That's what happened back then. There were no laws governing what was supposed to be done.
It's much easier to treat the underlying problem of the epidemic. case in point, when you go into a treatment facility such as the intake facility where you stay for 3 or more weeks, you have detoxed whatever drugs are in your system. DV and other TC's took that a step further. They then treated the underlying problem. Whether it was family problems, peer pressure, etc.
As i stated before, when i was in DV, the main addition was heroin. Older people addicted to heroin for so many years that a TC was there last hope. And it worked.
Today, people are paroled to TC's, people use it as a way to stay out of jail and don't put in the time they need to deal with all the other bullshit that comes with dealing with the problem.
I've seen how DV changed to the times. I've seen how they have to treat the crackhead as opposed to the heroin addict. You can't apply a philosophy of "responsible, Love, & concern or "act as if" to a crackhead who is trying to stay out of jail. Those are a crackhead's manipulation tactics. That's all they know.
So DV and other TC's have had to change their ways of thinking and treatment. And yes, even in terms of terminology, they've had to change.
For example: The DV philosophy, used to be begin "we are" Not I. They changed to back in 86 because of the new wave of abusers coming in, crackheads. What used to be called members are now called residents. Do you see my point, idiot. It's about changing the way you treat the person. You can't treat a crackhead the same way you treat a heroin addict. It doesn't work. Heroin addicts actually have a heart.
Now you want to talk about staff. I recall reading someone saying that the reason old school staff are trying to push out the more educated is because they are afraid. And to a point, that person was correct. They are afraid of seeing DV change in a way that's not about the mission. The mission was and still is solid. But laws change and epidemics change.
Hep C is what DV used to have to deal with heroin addicts. Now they also have to deal AIDS. There are all kinds of laws now that says what you can and can't do with someone who had AIDS.
I'll never forget the first person who was diagnosed with AIDS at DV. His name was Sammy. He became the poster boy ( for lack of a better term) but he changed the way DV thought in terms of treating someone who was ill.
Look, i'm not saying that DV and other TC's are the greatest. You get out what you put in. I did my time old school style and obviously had a better experience than you young bucks did, but take it for what it's worth. Look at this way. People in the social services industry are not in it for the money. They go into it believing that they can make a difference. What they find is that the system is so screwed up that they're just one little insignificant cog on that big wheel of bullshit that is every evolving to more bullshit and they see that after time they can do one of two things, go with the program or get out. That's my advice to you, accept the change, chalk it up to a bad experience and move on. One more thing.
So am i still drinking the Kool-AID? Damn right, because i don't have to deal with the bullshit that you spout about your bad experiences and why you couldn't get with the program. So, are u still smoking crack? and tell me, how long was it before your first relapse?"
Firstly, let me begin by saying that you are awfully presumptuous referring to me as a "young buck" who had a "bad experience" at Daytop.
Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident. I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.
Secondly, having worked there, and not viewing the modality through rose-colored glasses, as you seem to, I know for a fact that Daytop is engaged in many illegal, unethical and immoral activities. This is not my opinion, this is fact.
Thirdly, go tell some of the victims of this place that it's ok what Frank Lanza did to them and that if they "knew him back then," they "would understand." Tell them they should have understanding about Frank's behavior and that it is ok to be abused, belittled, humiliated and put on "the chair" outside, overnight in winter. Or that it's ok (or legal)to suffer through full body searches by untrained "staff" in filthy rooms ("Pick up your balls. Open your ass"). Tell them that it's okay that there's a confessed murderer bunking in the rack next to them because it brings funds to the facility.
Fourthly, if you "spent the best days of (your) life in a treatment center," then you have had no life.
Conclusion: You are still drinking the Kool-Aid after all these years.
Sad, yes. True, indeed.
Same post quoted by Guest the same day (Guest's added his/her comments in parentheses in the quote of my post):
Link to identical text in guest post from the same day as my original post: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=7762&start=30#p91243)
Firstly, let me begin by saying that you are awfully presumptuous referring to me as a "young buck" who had a "bad experience" at Daytop.
(obviously you had a bad experience whether you worked there or was a resident or you would still be working there. I'm going to assume that you left on your own free will either because of money, seeing things you didn't like, etc.. hence my words, bad experience and just to clarify, my term of "young buck" doesn't refer to your age, but at the time in which you were affiliated with DV. If I'm not mistaken you said you worked with DV in 95. I had been affiliated with DV since '82, which meant to ME that i'm closer to the old school style of the way things were done than you were. If that offended you, then i apologize.)
Let me educate you to the facts: I was a counselor at Daytop, never a resident. I am classically educated with degrees in Psychology and Sociology and an MBA in progress, so step down off your soapbox and don't talk to me as if I were one of your peers.
(Well, i'm proud that you're educated. I'm not on a soap box because i have never experienced DV or any TC as an employee, but hell, they must be doing something right classically educated employees are still there)
Secondly, having worked there, and not viewing the modality through rose-colored glasses, as you seem to,
( of course i'm going to see some things through rose colored glasses, i lived it, at some point couldn't see outside it, it was all i knew at the time and i can't apologize for that),
I know for a fact that Daytop is engaged in many illegal, unethical and immoral activities. This is not my opinion, this is fact.
(and just out of curiosity, what if anything have you done about it? or did you just let injustices keep happening until you bailed?)
Thirdly, go tell some of the victims of this place that it's ok what Frank Lanza did to them and that if they "knew him back then," (never ever did i say what he did was right. That never came out in any of my writing. Maybe you are just too blinded by your hatred of Frank, DV or TC's in general that you need to read between the lines of something that i didn't say)
they "would understand." Tell them they should have understanding about Frank's behavior and that it is ok to be abused, belittled, humiliated and put on "the chair" outside, overnight in winter. Or that it's ok (or legal)to suffer through full body searches by untrained "staff" in filthy rooms ("Pick up your balls. Open your ass"). Tell them that it's okay that there's a confessed murderer bunking in the rack next to them because it brings funds to the facility.
(I personally hated body searches. I didn't agree with them and there were a few times i refused to do them. My alternative was to not be admitted to the program. Look, being subjected to a full body search is/was never okay by someone who didn't know what they were doing. It was a lesson in humility that happened once. When you got there. If you happened to leave (AWOL) and come back, yes, it was done again. For protection of all. You don't see it that way and probably never will. But you know what, the person getting screened has done worse on the streets using drugs, so WTF)
Fourthly, if you "spent the best days of (your) life in a treatment center," then you have had no life.
When i was in DV, it was rare that they accepted anyone who committed a violent crime, who was court-ordered. The problem is that it's the norm now for a criminal to be court-ordered to a TC if they have drug abuse in their history. Whose fault is that, the TC's).
Look as i said before, TC's are not for everyone and definitely not for today's drug users. Everyone who enters a TC seems to be coddled now, even down to the term "hard core drug user" to "substance abuser", what the hell is that all about. and if crackheads and methamp users aren't the worse users, tell me who is?
Tell me something, are you still in social services industry, or did you give it up because you were fighting a losing battle?
Conclusion: You are still drinking the Kool-Aid after all these years.
(your conclusion is based on nothing, so i won't even comment on that further. other than to say you have the right to your opinion as i have the right to mine. You see it from a clinical standpoint and i see it from someone whose lived through it. Yeah, we are going to see it differently)
Sad, yes. True, indeed.
The text in both posts is identical. A Guest's quote from 2005 is identical to my original post (oops). I suppose now you're going to say the anonymous guest with no ability to edit posts magically became able to edit posts and also "altered" a post from five years ago to match my "altered" post, lols. When are you going to learn, Whooter? I'm a chess player and you're a checker player.
See, Whooter, you are so desperate to "get" me that I easily wound you up like a top, set you off and watched you spin, controlling your actions like I had a joystick in my hand. Watched as you pulled out several identites and augured yourself into the ground, all while blissfully ignorant that the post was not changed at all. All I did in my original post was take out a period (which I reinserted today, for integrity's sake) so that the edit stamp would be there to get you drooling with delight thinking you cornered me on something and knowing full well you'd be too lazy to look one page ahead and see my post was quoted contemporaneously by a guest and we all know guest posts can't be edited.
Yeah, I shined you on for a bit, telling you I edited out my name so you would jump on that, poking fun at your "timeline," shifting the focus, etc. simply so you would go into overdrive with your compulsion, just to watch you make a fool out of yourself again. Please feel free to go back and compare the text of both posts and tell me exactly how mine was "altered." You're too easy, man. I hope you learned something from this exercise. You played yourself again. Keep flailing away. It's funny.
[edited to add url at top of post - don't want Whooter getting all riled up over the edit stamp ; ) ]
Well, there goes that theory - post is identical as the guest quoted five years ago. You still don't get it, Whooter. I can get you to act this way any time I want. I did it to you again today and here you are still trolling and making up phony "quotes." You only damage yourself. You're a phony troll.
It wasn't changed, Whooter. That has been established. You were just too lazy to check before you pulled out the aliases and went on your last trolling spree. Now I got you to go on another today, just to show people what you are. Your desperation to avoid your own words is on full display. You are a desperate phony troll, buddy.
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Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Why would you go back 5 years and started editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
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Even if what you were saying were even remotely true, which it isn't, we'd still be stuck with the fact that you have lied about yourself many times. I just quote you. You don't like it. And you lose control.
You have never provided a single post of mine that shows I lied. I posted a dozen of yours today that prove you did. All you can do is troll to try to make it go away, but it doesn't.
I often wonder what it's like to be you - to have absolutely no control over your own actions. I can make you do whatever I want whenever I want. How? Just link to a post of yours you desperately want to avoid. Then you're busy all day trolling. It's really not that deep. Maybe you can try some twelve step programs?
Now you have a good night trolling and neglecting your family. Do they wonder why you are on Fornits all day every day and all night every night? Don't answer (not that you won't lols), it's rhetorical.
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How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is".
I thought you said you had a Masters in Business Administration? MBA
Screw you whootie, I have more degrees than you do. Your an industry shill. I could have figured out the math too because yes I did get my MBA, its just that my calculator on my laptop is not functioning.
Look, DJ, calm down. You are the one claiming that I must have all this inside knowledge because I can figure out that TBS's cost more than Wilderness therapy. I just did the math for you thats all. If you feel only industry people have that type of knowledge than that is your right to think that way. I just think your wrong thats all. Any person claiming to have an MBA should be able to figure where the real money is between TBS and Wilderness.
Just stating my opinion, thats all.
...
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Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Why would you go back 5 years and started editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
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You have never provided a single post of mine that shows I lied. I posted a dozen of yours today that prove you did. All you can do is troll to try to make it go away, but it doesn't.
I just provide 2 posts that showed you lied about your education, DJ. Then I showed you lied about leaving the TTI industry because you were disillusioned when really you tried to get a 3 rd job but since you had a criminal history you were denied.
Whootie, I wonder what it is like being you. I really do. So what if I lied about my education, this is just some stupid forum for people like you to spend your lives endlessly. You are an industry sockpuppet and you will say and do anything to support he industry. You are a desperate troll. I just showed the world that you went to jail.
Whoa, DJ, calm down. I was arrested because I was protesting. I was trying to help people, I am glad you came thru and admitted that you lied about your education. That seems to be big for you.
Just some advice would be to just be yourself. You don’t need to pretend to have a PhD to discuss the issues here, just try to contribute more and maybe share your experiences as a staff person. I think you can add a lot of insight and value here on fornits.
...
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I love it when you make it this easy John
RobertBruce, you are writing gibberish.....
Slow down John. Remember your training, start from the left and work your way towards the right. Letters make words, words make sentences. Sound it out buddy, you'll get there.
first, why would you travel to Newark, NJ to attend a meeting with TTI people when you have no connect to the industry
No connection to the industry? Never attended a program?
Here John, have a helping of your own words:
We both have connections to the industry..you attended a program and I had a daughter attend one.
Gotta love that quote feature don't you John?
How could just friends agree upon the number 20,000?
Well like I said, it was a rough estimate. Given the number of programs in existence, and the number of years the industry has been around it seemed a good ball park figure. What would you estimate?
You must have had industry buy in on that.Why was the meeting kept so secret if you claim to be open and honest here on fornits
We didn't want any industry trolls like you showing up and gate crashing the party. There was nothing or any of your child abusing pals could add to the discussion, so there was no point in inviting you.
Why do you refer to yourself as a survivor if you never went to a program? That doesn't make any sense to me. Until you can answer that and straighten out your post I cant see how we can move forward with an honest discussion
Wait a second John, your earlier comments seem to acknowledge that I was locked up in a program. Further how can you claim to have access to my records at HLA if you're now claiming I never attended? This doesnt make any sense John.
So then the now that your questions have been answered, mine remain for you whenever you work up the courage. Why would you attend a meeting with fornits posters to discuss safety in the TBS? Your make believe daughter was no longer incarcerated by that point. Also why have you changed your mind regarding starvation diets employed as a punishment?
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Interesting point to note; The conversation in question where John is discussing 'where the real money is' was part of his conversatation detailing the meeting he attended. John if the meeting was just for fornits posters why would you be discussing what you believe to be the cash cow of the TBS industry is?
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You have never provided a single post of mine that shows I lied. I posted a dozen of yours today that prove you did. All you can do is troll to try to make it go away, but it doesn't.
I just provide 2 posts that showed you lied about your education, DJ. Then I showed you lied about leaving the TTI industry because you were disillusioned when really you tried to get a 3 rd job but since you had a criminal history you were denied.
Whootie, I wonder what it is like being you. I really do. So what if I lied about my education, this is just some stupid forum for people like you to spend your lives endlessly. You are an industry sockpuppet and you will say and do anything to support he industry. You are a desperate troll. I just showed the world that you went to jail.
Whoa, DJ, calm down. I was arrested because I was protesting. I was trying to help people, I am glad you came thru and admitted that you lied about your education. That seems to be big for you.
Just some advice would be to just be yourself. You don’t need to pretend to have a PhD to discuss the issues here, just try to contribute more and maybe share your experiences as a staff person. I think you can add a lot of insight and value here on fornits.
...
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Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
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I'm sure you have a "before" and "after" snapshot of the post, right? I'm sure you can positively identify the exact "changes" right? Of course you can't because nothing was changed as previously discussed.
You get all pissy because I QFT you and call you out on the specific changes you make to try to avoid accountability. You have nothing. That's why you get so upset and make up dialogue for which you have no links while you demand links from others and call them "fabricators." What a crybaby!
Let's recap some of the things you did say and can't escape while you make up quotes I didn't say.
Anyone who has read my posts know I dont work towards getting someone fired or discrediting them. If there is a specific post which lead you to believe that was my intent you can put up a link and we can talk about it.
See below. No links to the OP, just a link to Whooter's post. Let's talk about it, Whooter. Why did you lie in this post to try to discredit me?
How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is"
You have thought that since I “knew where the real money was” then that meant I was an industry person. But what it really revealed is that there is a really good chance that you never earned an MBA to not figure out basic business math like that. Anyone with any business knowledge could figure that out in their head, DJ. So you see you shot yourself in the foot by claiming only and industry person could figure this out and by saying that you showed us that you had no business degree.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=371955#p371955)
...
Whooter is what he accuses others of. Funny, huh? And this guy expects people to believe what he says for what reason now?
Whoops! Your original post shows you were at a TTI meeting in Chicago lecturing your cronies about "where the real money is." What "regular parent" flies 1200 miles from home to go to meetings about how to make "the real money" off struggling families?
Oh no no no Cindy, you claimed there was a "long debate" and that it was decided that "we" were only going to look at TBS's as you define them.
Who specifically is "we"?
The debate was long, Bob... many wanted to start with "Wilderness data" and I argued that the real money was in the TBS industry, so lets start there, although wilderness is usually the inital phase of any decent TBS. So we went round and round....you, Bob have been a key player in collecting and presenting data on the entire industry and I have been focusing on small segments at a time.
I dont want to put names out there, people want to be anon's.
You're a complete phony. Everyone can see this. All this trolling just to try to protect your income.
When is this supposed to take place?
Well the announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.
...
How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as “Tippingâ€
What "regular parent" is a fiduciary of Aspen Education? You're not fooling anyone.
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Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
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Man, that "fiduciary duty" quote really makes you mad, huh? Also that trip to Chicago is a thorn in your side. Not to mention your admission that you have "first hand knowledge of the screening process" in programs and "have seen kids being rejected." Also that one about "where the real money is" gets you.
Regular parent? Yeah, sure. Whooter is a TTI employee. He admitted it. Now he's all BAWWW over it. :waaaa: :waaaa: :roflmao: :roflmao:
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Fact One: This post shows Dysfunction Junction worked at Daytop at one time. It also shows that he had a felony conviction and prison sentance.
Fact Two: He no longer works in the TBS field. According to him he got disillusioned with the industry. I suspect he isn't allowed to be employed by them with a previous felony conviction as most TBS's do background checks for most of their employees usually.
I'll bust your fucking teeth down your throat, choke you until you nearly fall unconscious, then give you a wake-up kick to the temple and send you on your merry way. Your pain, suffering and disfigurement wouldn't matter .......
Look, DJ, you dont need to threaten everyone that disagrees with you. I think we all know that if it were not for your criminal past that you would still be working in the TT industry instead of posting here on fornits to establish a resume that doesnt exist in real life. Maybe when you took this anger of yours out on the kids is why HLA decide to release you. I believe you have a past post where you admitted this unless you edited it out all ready.
...
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Looks like you're describing a session you had with a minor you were intake screening, Whooter. Funny how your comments reflect so deeply upon your own experiences. You really do have some violent sexual fantasies. It's hard to imagine you didn't act on them when you were alone with those kids. You're really sick.
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You have never provided a single post of mine that shows I lied. I posted a dozen of yours today that prove you did. All you can do is troll to try to make it go away, but it doesn't.
I just provide 2 posts that showed you lied about your education, DJ. Then I showed you lied about leaving the TTI industry because you were disillusioned when really you tried to get a 3 rd job but since you had a criminal history you were denied.
Whootie, I wonder what it is like being you. I really do. So what if I lied about my education, this is just some stupid forum for people like you to spend your lives endlessly. You are an industry sockpuppet and you will say and do anything to support he industry. You are a desperate troll. I just showed the world that you went to jail.
Whoa, DJ, calm down. I was arrested because I was protesting. I was trying to help people, I am glad you came thru and admitted that you lied about your education. That seems to be big for you.
Just some advice would be to just be yourself. You don’t need to pretend to have a PhD to discuss the issues here, just try to contribute more and maybe share your experiences as a staff person. I think you can add a lot of insight and value here on fornits.
...
-
Whoops! Your original post shows you were at a TTI meeting in Chicago lecturing your cronies about "where the real money is." What "regular parent" flies 1200 miles from home to go to meetings about how to make "the real money" off struggling families?
Lets look at that post again, DJ,
by TheWho » Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:29 am
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first. We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently. Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.
Look, Fuck you Whootie, you sock puppet twit. The whole point is that you are an industry player. If I wanted to show the readers the original post I would have done that. But if I dont show the original then that is up to me. Stay the fuck out of my posts. Let me tell my own story.
Lol, Wow, DJ, the truth hurts. You are really getting desperate here. If you want to try to make people believe I am meeting with industry people that is fine. I just wanted the readers to be aware of the original post that’s all.
...
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Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
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Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Sure, just like everyone else.
...
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Fact One: This post shows Dysfunction Junction worked at Daytop at one time. It also shows that he had a felony conviction and prison sentance.
Fact Two: He no longer works in the TBS field. According to him he got disillusioned with the industry. I suspect he isn't allowed to be employed by them with a previous felony conviction as most TBS's do background checks for most of their employees usually.
I'll bust your fucking teeth down your throat, choke you until you nearly fall unconscious, then give you a wake-up kick to the temple and send you on your merry way. Your pain, suffering and disfigurement wouldn't matter .......
Look, DJ, you dont need to threaten everyone that disagrees with you. I think we all know that if it were not for your criminal past that you would still be working in the TT industry instead of posting here on fornits to establish a resume that doesnt exist in real life. Maybe when you took this anger of yours out on the kids is why HLA decide to release you. I believe you have a past post where you admitted this unless you edited it out all ready.
...
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Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Oh, you noticed that, too, Ursus? This is what's so funny about this troll called Whooter. He rails and rails about having to have "proof" or a "smoking gun" when we confront him and we then post links to his original posts that prove he's just a liar and a phony.
When he gets upset he just starts making up "quotes" from others. This is how you know you have him caught in some big lies. It's how he responds when he gets snagged telling whoppers. I do it to him a couple of times a week just to illustrate how he operates and to show others exactly what he is - a troll and an industry shill. His whole story is bogus.
All you have to do is link to his original post where he admits a fiduciary duty to Aspen Education and he freaks out and starts making up allsorts of stuff while at the same time accusing everyone else of "fabricating." I posted a link where he accused others of "fabricating" sixteen times when all they did was post his exact original posts. He's a total loser who spent five wasted years here trying to pass himself off as "just a regular parent" which everyone knows, via his own posts, is a huge lie.
Personally, I think it's funny that he has so little self control and I can make him do whatever I want remotely through a message board. That's how weak this joker is...
-
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Oh, you noticed that, too, Ursus? This is what's so funny about this troll called Whooter. He rails and rails about having to have "proof" or a "smoking gun" when we confront him and we then post links to his original posts that prove he's just a liar and a phony.
When he gets upset he just starts making up "quotes" from others. This is how you know you have him caught in some big lies. It's how he responds when he gets snagged telling whoppers. I do it to him a couple of times a week just to illustrate how he operates and to show others exactly what he is - a troll and an industry shill. His whole story is bogus.
All you have to do is link to his original post where he admits a fiduciary duty to Aspen Education and he freaks out and starts making up allsorts of stuff while at the same time accusing everyone else of "fabricating." I posted a link where he accused others of "fabricating" sixteen times when all they did was post his exact original posts. He's a total loser who spent five wasted years here trying to pass himself off as "just a regular parent" which everyone knows, via his own posts, is a huge lie.
Personally, I think it's funny that he has so little self control and I can make him do whatever I want remotely through a message board. That's how weak this joker is...
See what I'm saying, Ursus? He has this thread set up on notification to his cell phone so he can respond instantly and feed his compulsion. It's hilarious!
"I have to go upstairs for a minute, kids."
"But you PROMISED to take us out for ice cream, daddy! You haven't left the computer for two weeks straight! We're going bowling with mom and "Uncle" Bill from the bar."
Seriously, what "regular parent" has this kind of time?
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Whoops! Your original post shows you were at a TTI meeting in Chicago lecturing your cronies about "where the real money is." What "regular parent" flies 1200 miles from home to go to meetings about how to make "the real money" off struggling families?
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Thanks Ursus, he never provides links. He made it up like the others. Lets look at the original post that DJ is referring to:
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=245433#p245433)
by TheWho » Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:29 am
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first. We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently. Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.
It says “I PM’d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a Statistical group and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago
Look, Fuck you Whootie, you twit. The whole point is that you are an industry player. I didn’t want the readers here to see the part where you said “I pm’d several people here on fornits”. I wanted the readers to believe you were meeting industry people.
Stay the fuck out of my posts.
Lol, Wow, DJ, the truth hurts. If you want to try to make people believe I am meeting with industry people that is fine. I just wanted to provide a link to the original post so the readers could read it for themselves that's all.
...
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Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
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Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Good Catch, Ursus. Links are not his strength it appears.
...
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Now he's cutting pasting Ursus' posts, too. This is because Ursus makes him look foolish almost daily. When Whooter loses arguments he just trolls people.
That said, links are my strong point. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976)
When is this supposed to take place?
Well the announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.
...
How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as “Tippingâ€
There you have it. "Just a regular parent" Whooter knows all about Aspen Education's potential takeover of HLA.
Yeah, sounds like every "regular parent" on my street. They're all Aspen Education fiduciaries with insider information on Aspen's financial dealings. :roflmao:
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Whoops! Your original post shows you were at a TTI meeting in Chicago lecturing your cronies about "where the real money is." What "regular parent" flies 1200 miles from home to go to meetings about how to make "the real money" off struggling families?
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Thanks Ursus, he never provides links. He made it up like the others. Lets look at the original post that DJ is referring to:
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=245433#p245433)
by TheWho » Thu Feb 08, 2007 4:29 am
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago. We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first. We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently. Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.
It says “I PM’d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a Statistical group and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago
Look, Fuck you Whootie, you twit. The whole point is that you are an industry player. I didn’t want the readers here to see the part where you said “I pm’d several people here on fornits”. I wanted the readers to believe you were meeting industry people.
Stay the fuck out of my posts.
Lol, Wow, DJ, the truth hurts. If you want to try to make people believe I am meeting with industry people that is fine. I just wanted to provide a link to the original post so the readers could read it for themselves that's all.
...
-
Now he's cutting pasting Ursus' posts, too. This is because Ursus makes him look foolish almost daily. When Whooter loses arguments he just trolls people.
That said, links are my strong point. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976)
When is this supposed to take place?
Well the announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.
...
How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as “Tippingâ€
There you have it. "Just a regular parent" Whooter knows all about Aspen Education's potential takeover of HLA.
Yeah, sounds like every "regular parent" on my street. They're all Aspen Education fiduciaries with insider information on Aspen's financial dealings. :roflmao:
There's my link to your OP. I noticed you don't have one. Where'd that "quote" come from, I wonder? :rofl: Stings, huh? Mr. Aspen Fiduciary is all upset. Cry me a river.
-
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Good Catch, Ursus. Links are not his strength it appears.
...
ouch!!! lol
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Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Oh, you noticed that, too, Ursus? This is what's so funny about this troll called Whooter. He rails and rails about having to have "proof" or a "smoking gun" when we confront him and we then post links to his original posts that prove he's just a liar and a phony.
When he gets upset he just starts making up "quotes" from others. This is how you know you have him caught in some big lies. It's how he responds when he gets snagged telling whoppers. I do it to him a couple of times a week just to illustrate how he operates and to show others exactly what he is - a troll and an industry shill. His whole story is bogus.
All you have to do is link to his original post where he admits a fiduciary duty to Aspen Education and he freaks out and starts making up allsorts of stuff while at the same time accusing everyone else of "fabricating." I posted a link where he accused others of "fabricating" sixteen times when all they did was post his exact original posts. He's a total loser who spent five wasted years here trying to pass himself off as "just a regular parent" which everyone knows, via his own posts, is a huge lie.
Personally, I think it's funny that he has so little self control and I can make him do whatever I want remotely through a message board. That's how weak this joker is...
Here's the actual post. Whooter doctored it up to avoid discussing his fiduciary interests in Aspen Education.
-
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Good Catch, Ursus. Links are not his strength it appears.
...
ouch!!! Sting!!! lol
-
Even if what you were saying were even remotely true, which it isn't, we'd still be stuck with the fact that you have lied about yourself many times. I just quote you. You don't like it. And you lose control.
You have never provided a single post of mine that shows I lied. I posted a dozen of yours today that prove you did. All you can do is troll to try to make it go away, but it doesn't.
I often wonder what it's like to be you - to have absolutely no control over your own actions. I can make you do whatever I want whenever I want. How? Just link to a post of yours you desperately want to avoid. Then you're busy all day trolling. It's really not that deep. Maybe you can try some twelve step programs?
Now you have a good night trolling and neglecting your family. Do they wonder why you are on Fornits all day every day and all night every night? Don't answer (not that you won't lols), it's rhetorical.
Another day and night on the computer, Whooter? What does your wife say about this? Or has she taken the kids and left already?
You gotta admit, Whooter's behavior is pretty strange for "just a regular parent." Must be that fiduciary interest that drives him.
-
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Like a remote control I tell ya. Watch: Fiduciary Interest.
-
How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is".
I thought you said you had a Masters in Business Administration? MBA
Screw you whootie, I have more degrees than you do. Your an industry shill. I could have figured out the math too because yes I did get my MBA, its just that my calculator on my laptop is not functioning.
Look, DJ, calm down. You are the one claiming that I must have all this inside knowledge because I can figure out that TBS's cost more than Wilderness therapy. I just did the math for you thats all. If you feel only industry people have that type of knowledge than that is your right to think that way. I just think your wrong thats all. Any person claiming to have an MBA should be able to figure where the real money is between TBS and Wilderness.
Just stating my opinion, thats all.
...
-
It's like magic, isn't it? Let's make him do it again: Fiduciary Duty to Aspen Education.
-
You must know you come off as an asshole control freak right? I'm not calling you that, I'm just saying when you post things like talking about controlling Whooter like a puppet, that is how it appears. I think you are a good guy, obviously if you worked at a program you must love kids, and I respect that. The staff at the program I went to were all really nice people and they helped me a lot.
-
I got a troll bite from the wrong troll identity. Ever notice they don't post at the same time?
Let me repeat myself: Whooter has a Fiduciary Duty to Aspen Education. The Aspen employee will be right along...
-
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
I got a troll bite from the wrong troll identity. Ever notice they don't post at the same time?
Let me repeat myself: Whooter has a Fiduciary Duty to Aspen Education. The Aspen employee will be right along...
DJ, we already covered this subject a month ago and I thought I had already settled this. I know one thing, I have far more on hands knowledge then you do. You definitely do not have the fiduciary acumen to be in this conversation.
Please for the love of all Accountants, CFO's and CEO's stop talking about "Fiduciary Responsibility".
Whooter was cleared, what he stated made sense. Now, move on.
It is starting to resemble OCD.
-
Danny, Whooter can answer for himself about his fiduciary duties and how he screened kids at their intakes. Let him answer. Trust me, he will, but only with some troll posts. He doesn't want to be held accountable for his fiduciary duties or his intake screenings.
-
The Aspen employee will be right along...
Goddamn! It's like you're psychic or something! :rofl:
-
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Good Catch, Ursus. Links are not his strength it appears.
...
ouch!!! lol
-
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Good Catch, Ursus. Links are not his strength it appears.
ouch!!! lol
Actually, Whooter, my post was in response to your posting of various falacious Dysfunction Junction posts which apparently are the sole creation of your imagination. Moreover, my original quote (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=660#p372079), before you altered it, read as follows:
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
PLUS... Your original reply to my post, before you altered it, read as follows:
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Sure, just like everyone else.
-
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Good Catch, Ursus. Links are not his strength it appears.
ouch!!! lol
Actually, Whooter, my post was in response to your posting of various falacious Dysfunction Junction posts which apparently are the sole creation of your imagination. Moreover, my original quote (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=660#p372079), before you altered it, read as follows:
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
PLUS... Your original reply to my post, before you altered it, read as follows:
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Sure, just like everyone else.
Wow....that's low even for you Whooter. Seriously.
It's finally getting to him. He's slipping. When he starts resorting to this, and is apparently doing it so fast that he didn't have time to proofread it before posting....you know it's getting to him. But Fornits is soooooo insignificant. :seg2: :cheers:
Lie, spin, distort, distract and deflect. That's pretty much his entire purpose here.
-
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! WOW! he was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Actually, Whooter, my post was in response to your posting...
I know it was. But it also applies to others on this thread that you missed. Just keeping your concern consistent for "All" posts on this thread to save you some posting time.
...
-
Actually, Whooter, my post was in response to your posting...
I know it was. But it also applies to others on this thread that you missed. Just keeping your concern consistent for "All" posts on this thread to save you some posting time.
Thanks, but I choose to speak for myself re. how I make use of my posting time.
Your out-of-context use of my quote, not to mention the editing thereof, was deliberately misleading. Perhaps not to you or to DJ, but quite possibly to anyone else not so familiar with this thread.
-
Actually, Whooter, my post was in response to your posting...
I know it was. But it also applies to others on this thread that you missed. Just keeping your concern consistent for "All" posts on this thread to save you some posting time.
Thanks, but I choose to speak for myself re. how I make use of my posting time.
Your out-of-context use of my quote, not to mention the editing thereof, was deliberately misleading. Perhaps not to you or to DJ, but quite possibly to anyone else not so familiar with this thread.
So does misleading posts apply to just me or to everyone?
I will play by the same rules as everyone else. If you want this thread policed for posts without links then I am sure you wont mind me helping out once in awhile.
...
-
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
I was wondering if there were links to the original for this myself. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is, a link would be helpful.
...
-
Look Whooter I know you. All that time we spent in jail together taught me much. Your mission to bring powerlessness to all is respected by me at least. No one else may care but i do. I am always here for you.
Peace and Powerlessness
Danny
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Anne, it has nothing to do with proofreading. He's creating this dialogue in his own imagination. He's upset because I link directly to his OP's where he admits that he has a fiduciary duty to Aspen Education. I also provided links for every other quote from Whooter, but all the ones he's claiming are me he links back to his own post and not mine because they don't exist.
This is also not a new low for Whooter. He has been doing this for years. Only now he can't deny it because he has to log in to post.
He's all tied up in knots now about his own abysmal record of trolling and fabricating. Hint: if Whooter calls someone a "troll" or charges "fabrication," he himself is trolling and fabricating. It's his MO.
Now he's cutting pasting Ursus' posts, too. This is because Ursus makes him look foolish almost daily. When Whooter loses arguments he just trolls people.
That said, links are my strong point. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976)
When is this supposed to take place?
Well the announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.
...
How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as “Tippingâ€
There you have it. "Just a regular parent" Whooter knows all about Aspen Education's potential takeover of HLA.
Yeah, sounds like every "regular parent" on my street. They're all Aspen Education fiduciaries with insider information on Aspen's financial dealings. :roflmao:
-
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
I was wondering if there were links to the original for this myself. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is.
I do agree a link would be helpful.
...
-
Click the link below to see Whooter's own words admitting his fiduciary duty to Aspen Education. This makes him feel weak and powerless and so he lashes out at everyone else instead of taking responsibility for his own actions. I think the only time he has taken responsibility for himself is when they threw him in jail and he had no choice. Sad, really. Especially for someone pimping programs who can't even take responsibility for himself. He should be in a program not screening kids in them.
Now he's cutting pasting Ursus' posts, too. This is because Ursus makes him look foolish almost daily. When Whooter loses arguments he just trolls people.
That said, links are my strong point. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976)
When is this supposed to take place?
Well the announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.
...
How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as “Tippingâ€
There you have it. "Just a regular parent" Whooter knows all about Aspen Education's potential takeover of HLA.
Yeah, sounds like every "regular parent" on my street. They're all Aspen Education fiduciaries with insider information on Aspen's financial dealings. :roflmao:
-
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Oh, you noticed that, too, Ursus? This is what's so funny about this troll called Whooter. He rails and rails about having to have "proof" or a "smoking gun" when we confront him and we then post links to his original posts that prove he's just a liar and a phony.
When he gets upset he just starts making up "quotes" from others. This is how you know you have him caught in some big lies. It's how he responds when he gets snagged telling whoppers. I do it to him a couple of times a week just to illustrate how he operates and to show others exactly what he is - a troll and an industry shill. His whole story is bogus.
All you have to do is link to his original post where he admits a fiduciary duty to Aspen Education and he freaks out and starts making up allsorts of stuff while at the same time accusing everyone else of "fabricating." I posted a link where he accused others of "fabricating" sixteen times when all they did was post his exact original posts. He's a total loser who spent five wasted years here trying to pass himself off as "just a regular parent" which everyone knows, via his own posts, is a huge lie.
Personally, I think it's funny that he has so little self control and I can make him do whatever I want remotely through a message board. That's how weak this joker is...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
-
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
I was wondering if there were links to the original for this myself. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is.
I do agree a link would be helpful.
...
-
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Lols. Notice Whooter never discusses the content of anyone else's posts because there's nothing untoward there. However, Whooter's actual words sink the image he tried to create here. He's no "regular parent" folks. That's obvious.
5...4...3...2...seconds to obessive compulsive Whooter troll response...1...
-
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
I was wondering if there were links to the original for this myself. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is.
I do agree a link would be helpful.
...
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Wow! Now each time I comment about Whooter's phoniness he instantly responds with TWO posts instead of the usual one.
Wait 10 seconds to see his next compulsive response that completely avoids his fiduciary interest in Aspen Education. He doesn't want to talk about that.
When is this supposed to take place?
Well the announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.
...
How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as “Tippingâ€
-
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
I was wondering if there were links to the original for this myself. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is.
I do agree a link would be helpful.
...
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
I dont even know who Ottawa5 is.
...
See, this is just another lie from Whooter. In five seconds (the time it took him to make two more compulsive posts) I found this here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24158&p=296586&hilit=+ottawa5#p296586) where Whooter is commenting on...wait for it...Ottawa5. What a lying phony!
The programmies have been making this forum sound a lot like group lately. These control freaks known as TheWho and Ottawa5 etc attempt to cast a silver lining on tough love programs they are tied in with. If anyone challenges their POV, they immediately bitch and moan about how they are not being treated fairly here. Cry me a river. :rofl:
Personally I dont bitch and moan if someone challenges my point of view. I think that is what fornits is all about (open discussion). From where I sit I see all the anit-program people doing all the complaining and crying.
I suppose people here will have to keep calling out these brainwashed charlatans one by one and voice their inner hatred for them and what they stand for... I guess they'll continue to be compelled to state why coercive (thus inherently abusive) "programs" and "schools" don't do anyone much good at all...
I would suggest leaving the hatred out of the posts... just keep trying to voice your point of view and explain why you feel the way you do. The hatred overshadows the point you are trying to make and in many cases thats all we see is the hatred, so its self defeating.
...
-
Nice try DJ, That wasnt me talking to Ottawa5, it was a guy named "Thought Criminal" You need to show I knew this Ottawa 5 (not just responded to a post).
I dont even know who Ottawa5 is.
...
See, this is just another lie from Whooter. In five seconds (the time it took him to make two more compulsive posts) I found this here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24158&p=296586&hilit=+ottawa5#p296586) where Whooter is commenting on...wait for it...Ottawa5. What a lying phony!
The programmies have been making this forum sound a lot like group lately. These control freaks known as TheWho and Ottawa5 etc attempt to cast a silver lining on tough love programs they are tied in with. If anyone challenges their POV, they immediately bitch and moan about how they are not being treated fairly here. Cry me a river. :rofl:
Personally I dont bitch and moan if someone challenges my point of view. I think that is what fornits is all about (open discussion). From where I sit I see all the anit-program people doing all the complaining and crying.
I suppose people here will have to keep calling out these brainwashed charlatans one by one and voice their inner hatred for them and what they stand for... I guess they'll continue to be compelled to state why coercive (thus inherently abusive) "programs" and "schools" don't do anyone much good at all...
I would suggest leaving the hatred out of the posts... just keep trying to voice your point of view and explain why you feel the way you do. The hatred overshadows the point you are trying to make and in many cases thats all we see is the hatred, so its self defeating.
...
...
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
...
-
Don't know who she is? C'mon, Whooter. Right i this post you're commenting about her after "thought criminal" pointed out that you are both working the same agenda - pushing programs. You responded to this post and obviously read it. And Ottawa5 is not the only indistry type that has been on here either. You lied again when you said you didn't even know who she was. But, hey, what DON'T you lie about, Mr. Fiduciary Duty to Aspen Education? You'll never escape that admission and it's 100% damning. Tough luck because it's a direct quote from you. Everything you post is just made up.
Damn, Whooter. Five years later and still all you do is bitch and moan! And you bitch and moan just about being quoted. You said these things. Take responsibility like you did when you were locked up in jail with the "scary black guys." :roflmao:
I dont even know who Ottawa5 is.
...
See, this is just another lie from Whooter. In five seconds (the time it took him to make two more compulsive posts) I found this here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=24158&p=296586&hilit=+ottawa5#p296586) where Whooter is commenting on...wait for it...Ottawa5. What a lying phony!
The programmies have been making this forum sound a lot like group lately. These control freaks known as TheWho and Ottawa5 etc attempt to cast a silver lining on tough love programs they are tied in with. If anyone challenges their POV, they immediately bitch and moan about how they are not being treated fairly here. Cry me a river. :rofl:
Personally I dont bitch and moan if someone challenges my point of view. I think that is what fornits is all about (open discussion). From where I sit I see all the anit-program people doing all the complaining and crying.
I suppose people here will have to keep calling out these brainwashed charlatans one by one and voice their inner hatred for them and what they stand for... I guess they'll continue to be compelled to state why coercive (thus inherently abusive) "programs" and "schools" don't do anyone much good at all...
I would suggest leaving the hatred out of the posts... just keep trying to voice your point of view and explain why you feel the way you do. The hatred overshadows the point you are trying to make and in many cases thats all we see is the hatred, so its self defeating.
...
-
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is? Do you think DJ can provide a link?
...
-
DJ, do a search and see if I ever responded to one of Ottawa5's posts or mine to Ottawa5. I cant control what other people say about me and neither can you. But I have no connection to this poster... I responded to a poster named "Thought Criminal"
Run the search! You made this up like all your other connections. You have been caught yet again.... you never provided a link because there isnt any.. just someone talking about us in the same post.
...
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is? Do you think DJ can provide a link where this Ottawa5 person and myself are having a conversation? lol I cant.
...
-
This is just getting sad John. What is it exactly that you believe DJ made up? What do you believe he lied about? All of your links seem to coroborate his education claims. You've once again been painted into a corner with your own words and are attempting to deflect onto someone else who has shamed you. Keep digging your hole if you like, it's the only thing you're good at. I must say though given that you've been caught in countless lies I find it odd that you would even bring up some one elses honesty.
That aside my questions to you remain unanswered:
1. Why would your claim of enjoying meeting with fornits posters cause you to travel to a meeting to set up a statistical study of the TBS safety?
2. Why has your view point regarding programs rationing food as a form of punishment changed?
-
You know how people are always saying how Whooter goes back and edits his posts about his daughter not speaking to him for two years after the program, dropping out of high school, etc?
He basically cleaned up that whole story from the database so he could argue "how well" she did "after the program." And you know how keeps accusing people of "fabricating" or "editing" their posts?
Let's atke a look here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13220&p=160456&hilit=job+year#p160456) at this "clean up job" Whooter did on his daughter's behavior after the program which he originally posted on Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:50 pm .
On 2006-01-01 13:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"not if they are living in YOUR house without paying rent, bills....If you don't want to follow the rules, get a job, get your own place, fix your own meals, figure out your own transportation, have your own life. And finally be happy following your own rules."
My daughter came home and had a difficult transition. She initially went back with her old friends but eventually got bored with them and moved on. I was worried for awhile but we communicated with each other and new she was in a good space.
Seems pretty mundane unless you knew what he had said previously re: cutting him out of her life and dropping out of school and drinking and drugging when she got home from the program. But Whooter "fixed" that by going back over a year later and editing that nasty stuff out:
Last edited by TheWho on Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Looks like Whoter has been caught protesting a bit too much, eh? :roflmao: :roflmao:
-
I remember that because it reminded me quite a bit of how the relationship between my father and I deteriorated after "graduating" (lest anyone think I'm just "disgruntled" because I didn't "graduate"....I did.)
-
You know how people are always saying how Whooter goes back and edits his posts about his daughter not speaking to him for two years after the program, dropping out of high school, etc?
He basically cleaned up that whole story from the database so he could argue "how well" she did "after the program." And you know how keeps accusing people of "fabricating" or "editing" their posts?
Let's atke a look here (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=13220&p=160456&hilit=job+year#p160456) at this "clean up job" Whooter did on his daughter's behavior after the program which he originally posted on Sun Jan 01, 2006 5:50 pm .
On 2006-01-01 13:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"not if they are living in YOUR house without paying rent, bills....If you don't want to follow the rules, get a job, get your own place, fix your own meals, figure out your own transportation, have your own life. And finally be happy following your own rules."
My daughter came home and had a difficult transition. She initially went back with her old friends but eventually got bored with them and moved on. I was worried for awhile but we communicated with each other and new she was in a good space.
Seems pretty mundane unless you knew what he had said previously re: cutting him out of her life and dropping out of school and drinking and drugging when she got home from the program. But Whooter "fixed" that by going back over a year later and editing that nasty stuff out:
Last edited by TheWho on Wed Jan 17, 2007 7:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Looks like Whoter has been caught protesting a bit too much, eh? :roflmao: :roflmao:
Nice try DJ. Maybe I admitted to killing a few people also, lol
Lets take a look at the education argument.
...
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Who.....you've actually become a parody of yourself. Poe's law applies.
-
I remember that because it reminded me quite a bit of how the relationship between my father and I deteriorated after "graduating" (lest anyone think I'm just "disgruntled" because I didn't "graduate"....I did.)
Yeah, I hear ya. And it was the same for him and his kid, too. He deleted one post about it (Deborah linked that post to his account and he promptly deleted it) and this other one he just went back more than a year later to scrub it after he was called on it. It was a clean up job.
-
I remember that because it reminded me quite a bit of how the relationship between my father and I deteriorated after "graduating" (lest anyone think I'm just "disgruntled" because I didn't "graduate"....I did.)
Yeah, I hear ya. And it was the same for him and his kid, too. He deleted one post about it (Deborah linked that post to his account and he promptly deleted it) and this other one he just went back more than a year later to scrub it after he was called on it. It was a clean up job.
Oh, no!! I hope I remembered to delete the post where I killed my neighbors off... lol
...
-
Who.....you've actually become a parody of yourself. Poe's law applies.
It is interesting, isnt it?
...
-
Who.....you've actually become a parody of yourself. Poe's law applies.
It is interesting, isnt it?
No, it's rather boring and redundant.
-
Who.....you've actually become a parody of yourself. Poe's law applies.
It is interesting, isnt it?
No, it's rather boring and redundant.
What I typically do is skip over the posters who bore me and are redundant.
...
-
Here's another one ol' Whooter cleaned up about his own drug use. I quoted it and responded to it in the following post and when Whooter changed his screename from "LittleCat" to "TheWho" he went back and edited it to simply say "Thanks for the post". Check it out (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5057&p=149107&hilit=edited+by+thewho#p167860):
On 2005-11-22 14:10:00, LittleCat wrote:
"
On 2005-11-22 14:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Drugs are fucking GREAT! I'm glad I got sent to a program 'cause I learned about all the other drugs I had been missing out on. I don't think I ever would have tried crystal meth, cocaine, or heroin if I hadn't heard how great they were from other people in the program.
That's the best thing I walked away from the program with, a desire to do more drugs."
That is true!! I started smoking pot in high school and after 3 years I moved onto Mescaline (brown organic rocks!!). I think the pot raised my awareness and made me smart enough to realize that I needed to move onto better stuff. I still smoke pot once in a while, but after I wake up, some days, and rmember I blew my paycheck on coke I feel really stupid. Maybe I should stick with pot and work on getting my G.E.D. I wish more people would write articles like that, it makes me feel better about my choices and shit.
Thanks for the post"
Ahhh, LittleCat the active coke addict pontificating as to why KIDS need programs.
Dude, I took my own time to read ALL of your posts this morning. After careful consideration I have come to the conclusion that you're an idiot. I don't know how else to break it down for you.
You doggedly support abusive programs that have killed children in their care, but also admit to being a cokehead and a dope smoker. Did you ever think maybe YOU'RE the reason your kid got so incredibly fucked up? Maybe you were just a bad parent, as is the case with SO MANY of these kids locked up in kiddie jails? Looks like you need some treatment, pal.
Lay off the coke for a while and get your life together, then maybe we can talk.
So, there's the contemporaneous quote of TheWho with the full text, but take a look at how he cleaned it up later (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5057&p=149107&hilit=edited+by+thewho#p149107):
On 2005-11-22 14:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Drugs are fucking GREAT! I'm glad I got sent to a program 'cause I learned about all the other drugs I had been missing out on. I don't think I ever would have tried crystal meth, cocaine, or heroin if I hadn't heard how great they were from other people in the program.
That's the best thing I walked away from the program with, a desire to do more drugs."
Thanks for the post[ This Message was edited by: TheWho on 2006-02-18 11:12 ]
This is the only post in the database on this date and this exact time - Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:10 pm. Posted by TheWho and later "cleaned up" by TheWho, who apparently doesn't want the world to know about his coke use, etc.
Now you can see why Whooter gets so upset when I post his quotes. I called him on his bullshit lies when he first got here and he has been trolling me ever since.
-
I remember that because it reminded me quite a bit of how the relationship between my father and I deteriorated after "graduating" (lest anyone think I'm just "disgruntled" because I didn't "graduate"....I did.)
Our relationship started improving during her time in the program. Even with the distance between us and phone calls once a week we were communicating better then when we lived together under the same roof, go figure.
After she graduated the communication continued to be our strength even when she regressed temporarily and went back to her old friends for a short period.
...
-
Here's another one ol' Whooter cleaned up about his own drug use. I quoted it and responded to it in the following post and when Whooter changed his screename from "LittleCat" to "TheWho" he went back and edited it to simply say "Thanks for the post". Check it out (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5057&p=149107&hilit=edited+by+thewho#p167860):
On 2005-11-22 14:10:00, LittleCat wrote:
"
On 2005-11-22 14:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Drugs are fucking GREAT! I'm glad I got sent to a program 'cause I learned about all the other drugs I had been missing out on. I don't think I ever would have tried crystal meth, cocaine, or heroin if I hadn't heard how great they were from other people in the program.
That's the best thing I walked away from the program with, a desire to do more drugs."
That is true!! I started smoking pot in high school and after 3 years I moved onto Mescaline (brown organic rocks!!). I think the pot raised my awareness and made me smart enough to realize that I needed to move onto better stuff. I still smoke pot once in a while, but after I wake up, some days, and rmember I blew my paycheck on coke I feel really stupid. Maybe I should stick with pot and work on getting my G.E.D. I wish more people would write articles like that, it makes me feel better about my choices and shit.
Thanks for the post"
Ahhh, LittleCat the active coke addict pontificating as to why KIDS need programs.
Dude, I took my own time to read ALL of your posts this morning. After careful consideration I have come to the conclusion that you're an idiot. I don't know how else to break it down for you.
You doggedly support abusive programs that have killed children in their care, but also admit to being a cokehead and a dope smoker. Did you ever think maybe YOU'RE the reason your kid got so incredibly fucked up? Maybe you were just a bad parent, as is the case with SO MANY of these kids locked up in kiddie jails? Looks like you need some treatment, pal.
Lay off the coke for a while and get your life together, then maybe we can talk.
So, there's the contemporaneous quote of TheWho with the full text, but take a look at how he cleaned it up later (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5057&p=149107&hilit=edited+by+thewho#p149107):
On 2005-11-22 14:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Drugs are fucking GREAT! I'm glad I got sent to a program 'cause I learned about all the other drugs I had been missing out on. I don't think I ever would have tried crystal meth, cocaine, or heroin if I hadn't heard how great they were from other people in the program.
That's the best thing I walked away from the program with, a desire to do more drugs."
Thanks for the post[ This Message was edited by: TheWho on 2006-02-18 11:12 ]
This is the only post in the database on this date and this exact time - Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:10 pm. Posted by TheWho and later "cleaned up" by TheWho, who apparently doesn't want the world to know about his coke use, etc.
Now you can see why Whooter gets so upset when I post his quotes. I called him on his bullshit lies when he first got here and he has been trolling me ever since.
Again, inartfully dodged. Poor Whooter, stuck with his own words again and desperate to change the subject!
-
I called him on his bullshit lies when he first got here and he has been trolling me ever since.
Wow, DJ looking for sympathy from the crowd for being the victim of a troll... Hmmmm now that is historic.
...
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Whooter can't avoid this forensic evidence of his phoniness. Ever notice how he can't produce any evidence about anyone else? He gets upset when he gets cornered in huge lies and unflattering statements he made like this one about his mescaline and cocaine use:
Here's another one ol' Whooter cleaned up about his own drug use. I quoted it and responded to it in the following post and when Whooter changed his screename from "LittleCat" to "TheWho" he went back and edited it to simply say "Thanks for the post". Check it out (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5057&p=149107&hilit=edited+by+thewho#p167860):
On 2005-11-22 14:10:00, LittleCat wrote:
"
On 2005-11-22 14:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Drugs are fucking GREAT! I'm glad I got sent to a program 'cause I learned about all the other drugs I had been missing out on. I don't think I ever would have tried crystal meth, cocaine, or heroin if I hadn't heard how great they were from other people in the program.
That's the best thing I walked away from the program with, a desire to do more drugs."
That is true!! I started smoking pot in high school and after 3 years I moved onto Mescaline (brown organic rocks!!). I think the pot raised my awareness and made me smart enough to realize that I needed to move onto better stuff. I still smoke pot once in a while, but after I wake up, some days, and rmember I blew my paycheck on coke I feel really stupid. Maybe I should stick with pot and work on getting my G.E.D. I wish more people would write articles like that, it makes me feel better about my choices and shit.
Thanks for the post"
Ahhh, LittleCat the active coke addict pontificating as to why KIDS need programs.
Dude, I took my own time to read ALL of your posts this morning. After careful consideration I have come to the conclusion that you're an idiot. I don't know how else to break it down for you.
You doggedly support abusive programs that have killed children in their care, but also admit to being a cokehead and a dope smoker. Did you ever think maybe YOU'RE the reason your kid got so incredibly fucked up? Maybe you were just a bad parent, as is the case with SO MANY of these kids locked up in kiddie jails? Looks like you need some treatment, pal.
Lay off the coke for a while and get your life together, then maybe we can talk.
So, there's the contemporaneous quote of TheWho with the full text, but take a look at how he cleaned it up later (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5057&p=149107&hilit=edited+by+thewho#p149107):
On 2005-11-22 14:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Drugs are fucking GREAT! I'm glad I got sent to a program 'cause I learned about all the other drugs I had been missing out on. I don't think I ever would have tried crystal meth, cocaine, or heroin if I hadn't heard how great they were from other people in the program.
That's the best thing I walked away from the program with, a desire to do more drugs."
Thanks for the post[ This Message was edited by: TheWho on 2006-02-18 11:12 ]
This is the only post in the database on this date and this exact time - Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:10 pm. Posted by TheWho and later "cleaned up" by TheWho, who apparently doesn't want the world to know about his coke use, etc.
Now you can see why Whooter gets so upset when I post his quotes. I called him on his bullshit lies when he first got here and he has been trolling me ever since.
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
You know what "won't go away"? Your cocaine and mescaline use you admitted to. Did you ever confess to the program that you were a drug addict and your kid got messed up by your modeling? It's interesting you blamed her for doing just what you did and had her locked up for it, just like you were locked up. Weird, huh? You forced her to follow in your footsteps. That's probably why she cut you off when she got out.
-
You know what "won't go away"? Your cocaine and mescaline use you admitted to. Did you ever confess to the program that you were a drug addict and your kid got messed up by your modeling? It's interesting you blamed her for doing just what you did and had her locked up for it, just like you were locked up. Weird, huh? You forced her to follow in your footsteps. That's probably why she cut you off when she got out.
Oh No!!! now I am a drug addict ! lol.
...
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
You know what "won't go away"? Your cocaine and mescaline use you admitted to. Did you ever confess to the program that you were a drug addict and your kid got messed up by your modeling? It's interesting you blamed her for doing just what you did and had her locked up for it, just like you were locked up. Weird, huh? You forced her to follow in your footsteps. That's probably why she cut you off when she got out.
Oh No!!! now I am a drug addict ! lol.
...
Well, you did say you smoked pot, spent your whole check on coke and did mescaline, too. Care to explain why you said those things? It doesn't fit with the image you're trying to portry here, so I think you should explain this drug use and your jail time so we can understand better.
-
You know what "won't go away"? Your cocaine and mescaline use you admitted to. Did you ever confess to the program that you were a drug addict and your kid got messed up by your modeling? It's interesting you blamed her for doing just what you did and had her locked up for it, just like you were locked up. Weird, huh? You forced her to follow in your footsteps. That's probably why she cut you off when she got out.
Oh No!!! now I am a drug addict ! lol.
...
Well, you did say you smoked pot, spent your whole check on coke and did mescaline, too. Care to explain why you said those things? It doesn't fit with the image you're trying to portry here, so I think you should explain this drug use and your jail time so we can understand better.
Oh no! I said I do coke and Mescaline too? I think you should try to convince people I killed my neighbors too. lol
...
-
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just quoting you and linking to your original posts.
You said these things. You'll have to explain why you said those things. I can only prove you siad them, not why you said them. Just repeating "Oh no!!" looks like you're trying to shift the focus from your own statements, duly quoted and linked.
-
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just quoting you and linking to your original posts.
You said these things. You'll have to explain why you said those things. I can only prove you siad them, not why you said them. Just repeating "Oh no!!" looks like you're trying to shift the focus from your own statements, duly quoted and linked.
If you really feel I said it then let the readers decide. I am fine with that.
...
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just quoting you and linking to your original posts.
You said these things. You'll have to explain why you said those things. I can only prove you siad them, not why you said them. Just repeating "Oh no!!" looks like you're trying to shift the focus from your own statements, duly quoted and linked.
If you really feel I said it then let the readers decide. I am fine with that.
...
Oh, it's not a feeling. It's a fact. You can't edit posts by other people. We all know that. Just explain why you deny your coke and mescaline use now but admitted it and bragged about it then. You've also admitted to tripping on acid. Maybe you should just explain the extent of your addiction and its impact on your kids.
-
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just quoting you and linking to your original posts.
You said these things. You'll have to explain why you said those things. I can only prove you siad them, not why you said them. Just repeating "Oh no!!" looks like you're trying to shift the focus from your own statements, duly quoted and linked.
If you really feel I said it then let the readers decide. I am fine with that.
...
Oh, it's not a feeling. It's a fact. You can't edit posts by other people. We all know that. Just explain why you deny your coke and mescaline use now but admitted it and bragged about it then. You've also admitted to tripping on acid. Maybe you should just explain the extent of your addiction and its impact on your kids.
Oh No! Now I am a drug addict? Does this discredit all my past posting history? lol
...
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. I'm just quoting you and linking to your original posts.
You said these things. You'll have to explain why you said those things. I can only prove you siad them, not why you said them. Just repeating "Oh no!!" looks like you're trying to shift the focus from your own statements, duly quoted and linked.
If you really feel I said it then let the readers decide. I am fine with that.
...
Oh, it's not a feeling. It's a fact. You can't edit posts by other people. We all know that. Just explain why you deny your coke and mescaline use now but admitted it and bragged about it then. You've also admitted to tripping on acid. Maybe you should just explain the extent of your addiction and its impact on your kids.
Why are you trying so hard to avoid your own statements? Are you ashamed? Are you worried about your image? Afraid people won't believe what you say anymore in light of your statements? I don't get the avoidance. These questions are legitimate. You sent your kids to programs for doing what you already admitted to doing yourself.
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
...
-
How old were you, Whooter, when you were arrested in MI? I don't think you were a minor as you claimed. How old?
-
Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
...
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Speaking of things that won't go away, Whootie can I get you to answer my earlier questions?
-
Speaking of things that won't go away, Whootie can I get you to answer my earlier questions?
No, You are just trolling for drama, Devon. If you join in an honest conversation without attacking people and can maintain that for 10 posts or more then I may tackle your questions. But I am not going to go in circles with you.
...
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Speaking of things that won't go away, Whootie can I get you to answer my earlier questions?
No, You are just trolling for drama, Devon. If you join in an honest conversation without attacking people and can maintain that for 10 posts or more then I may tackle your questions. But I am not going to go in circles with you.
...
The guy who does nothing but spam the board with his repetative nonsense talks about going in circles? If that isn't ironic I'm not sure what is.
I asked you two simple questions John, there was no attack. I'm interested in hearing why you really attended this meeting, and why you changed your mind regarding food rationing.
-
Speaking of things that won't go away, Whootie can I get you to answer my earlier questions?
No, You are just trolling for drama, Devon. If you join in an honest conversation without attacking people and can maintain that for 10 posts or more then I may tackle your questions. But I am not going to go in circles with you.
...
The guy who does nothing but spam the board with his repetative nonsense talks about going in circles? If that isn't ironic I'm not sure what is.
I asked you two simple questions John, there was no attack. I'm interested in hearing why you really attended this meeting, and why you changed your mind regarding food rationing.
If you remember back to that time we were putting together data to look at suicide rates and homicides within the public school system versus the TBS and wilderness. There were people here on fornits (yourself included) who were participating in this and I was in Chicago and there were a few of us from Fornits who met to determine how this project should be tackled. It was decided that we should focus on the TBS because this was "Where the real money is" (this comment always riled up DJ) and get supporting data for the public sector to compare. You helped with this project, Devon. I ended up developing a matrix which we presented on this site along with your help.
As far as food rationing is concerned I dont believe I changed my mind on this. If you feel I have then we can discuss it.
...
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Bob, The links and formatting may be off because fornits has changed revisions since this was posted, but maybe this will refresh your memory of what we were looking at.
I think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
-
If you remember back to that time we were putting together data to look at suicide rates and homicides within the public school system versus the TBS and wilderness. There were people here on fornits (yourself included) who were participating in this and I was in Chicago and there were a few of us from Fornits who met to determine how this project should be tackled. It was decided that we should focus on the TBS because this was "Where the real money is" (this comment always riled up DJ) and get supporting data for the public sector to compare. You helped with this project, Devon. I ended up developing a matrix which we presented on this site along with your help.
As far as food rationing is concerned I dont believe I changed my mind on this. If you feel I have then we can discuss it
Oh I well recall how we established that the TBS is far more dangerous than public schools, what I don't recall are any other posters supporting your data. I do recall a number of people arguing with you about who should be included and who shouldn't. You seemed to believe that you and you alone were the only one who should determine what deaths counted and what didn't. Can you tell me now some other posters that met with you in Chicago. Also why would you need to meet with posters, why couldnt you simply discuss the issue on fornits?
As far as the food issue goes, let me ask you John, do you believe now that food rationing as a form of punishment is abusive?
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Oh I well recall how we established that the TBS is far more dangerous than public schools, what I don't recall are any other posters supporting your data.
Its been awhile and you were always of the mindset that the industry was more dangerous that the public sector, but the numbers proved that the industry was a safer environment than public school.
do recall a number of people arguing with you about who should be included and who shouldn't. You seemed to believe that you and you alone were the only one who should determine what deaths counted and what didn't.
There were many heated arguments! Lol I remember someone getting really pissed off because they considered a child who committed suicide 2 years after leaving a program as a program death even though she was in the public sector. So trying to establish agreeable boundary conditions was a challenge.
Can you tell me now some other posters that met with you in Chicago. Also why would you need to meet with posters, why couldnt you simply discuss the issue on fornits?
I don’t recall if there was any reasoning at the time to meet off site. It just happened. I remember the people we met with but I don’t recall their usernames off hand, I would have to go back to the time of the discussion to see who was posting then.
As far as the food issue goes, let me ask you John, do you believe now that food rationing as a form of punishment is abusive?
You need to look at the number of calories and the individual child. A child who is clearly overweight may necessitate a different caloric meal than one who is underweight. I am not in a position to determine how the scales are tipped to define abuse. But basically kids should be allowed to fill up as much as they want at each meal unless there are restrictions.
...
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Its been awhile and you were always of the mindset that the industry was more dangerous that the public sector, but the numbers proved that the industry was a safer environment than public school.
You're mistaken. Your own numbers and the sources you claimed to cite undeniably showed the public schools were far safer than the TBS. The end result of the discussion seemed to bring everyone to that same point. I had thought you were on board with that as well?
There were many heated arguments! Lol I remember someone getting really pissed off because they considered a child who committed suicide 2 years after leaving a program as a program death even though she was in the public sector. So trying to establish agreeable boundary conditions was a challenge.
I dont recall that specific argument, although I too would have found it ridiculus. However I do remember a number of arguments people had with you regarding other instances that you refused to include. A child dies from heat stroke after being forced to march in the desert, and you claim the program wasn't respondsible. A child is crushed to death by a staffer and you blamed McDonald's. Again though I don't recall any other posters supporting your data.
I don’t recall if there was any reasoning at the time to meet off site. It just happened. I remember the people we met with but I don’t recall their usernames off hand, I would have to go back to the time of the discussion to see who was posting then.
Please do. I'm interested to hear more about this meeting.
You need to look at the number of calories and the individual child. A child who is clearly overweight may necessitate a different caloric meal than one who is underweight. I am not in a position to determine how the scales are tipped to define abuse. But basically kids should be allowed to fill up as much as they want at each meal unless there are restrictions.
I believe during the initial discussion it was shown that the average teenager requires 2000 calories per day. A severley restricted diet coupled with intense exercise and manual labor cannot be heathy. Wouldnt you consider that abusive? Your earlier comments on this thread seem to suggest that you do.
-
You're mistaken. Your own numbers and the sources you claimed to cite undeniably showed the public schools were far safer than the TBS. The end result of the discussion seemed to bring everyone to that same point. I had thought you were on board with that as well?
Sometimes it helps to revisit the numbers. Lets take another look:
There is a clear advantage in having a child in a private program versus the public sector.
I think you will see that after you eliminate the state run hospitals and boot camps the numbers look pretty good.
NCES still has not released their data for 2004-2005 year..... as soon as it becomes availble I will add the figures in.
You can click on the program type to get more detail if needed.[/b]
__________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2000 thru June 2001 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,466 Homicides and 1,493 suicides , 2,959 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://www.fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249129#p249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 1 suicides, ----- 1 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2001 thru June 2002 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,468 Homicides and 1,400 suicides , 2,868 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2002 thru June 2003 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,515 Homicides and 1,331 suicides , 2,846 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
___________________________________________________________________________
July 1, 2003 thru June 2004 Children 8-18 years of age.
Public Sector: -------There were 1,437 Homicides and 1,285 suicides , 2,722 Total (NCES, CDC)
Therapeutic Industry:
TBS (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249129) ---------------------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
Wilderness (http://http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?p=249136&sid=9b8eb4a290172f9cf58ad39d2a5aea7f#249130) -----------There were 0 Homicides, 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total Industry -------There were 0 Homicides , 0 suicides, ----- 0 Total
TBS - Therapeutic Boarding Schools
NCES National Center for Education Statistics
CDC -- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
* - Data found here on fornits, internet news articles (caica.org, isaccorp.org), posts and PM?s.... All deaths are verified thru local news articles.
X -- Incomplete or unavailable
-
John I'm not sure why you're reposting your numbers repeatedly. The facts are quite clear on the issue, the TBS is far mreo dangerous than Public Schools. This was settled several years ago I see no reason to rehash it.
I am interested in hearing answers to the questions I mentioned.
-
John I'm not sure why you're reposting your numbers repeatedly. The facts are quite clear on the issue, the TBS is far mreo dangerous than Public Schools. This was settled several years ago I see no reason to rehash it.
I am interested in hearing answers to the questions I mentioned.
Robert, DJ, Joel or whoever else you want to impersonate, why is it necessary for you to repetitively show that you can be a imbecile.
I am not trying to insult you, really. But you really sound like you may be slow or a little late in catching on to things here.
Try to keep up, please. The numbers were posted for a very good reason, if you do not understand, ask and we will take the time to explain them again.
Your statement shows that you clearly have no common sense at all, not judging, just say'in.
-
So says the guy who believes I'm someone elses alter ego.
Have a good night John, we'll pick up again tomorrow.
-
How old were you, Whooter, when you were arrested in MI? I don't think you were a minor as you claimed. How old?
How old were you when you were tossed in jail in MI, Whooter? It's not that tough of a question. Unless you've been locked up so many times you can't remember individual bids, this should just be a simple two-keystroke answer.
-
Robert, DJ, Joel or whoever else you want to impersonate, why is it necessary for you to repetitively show that you can be a imbecile.
I am not trying to insult you, really. But you really sound like you may be slow or a little late in catching on to things here.
Try to keep up, please. The numbers were posted for a very good reason, if you do not understand, ask and we will take the time to explain them again.
Your statement shows that you clearly have no common sense at all, not judging, just say'in.
I've been saying that for a while. I've come to the conclusion that he really can't help himself. There's a clinical term for this condition, but the name escapes me at the moment.
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
FINALLY we're getting to some truth about Whooter's family. He now admits he had a SON at ASR and not a daughter. This is consistent with John Reuben's family history as well. Hmmmm...
I know it's hard to choose a school or program when your kid is in a crisis and you don't see any other alternative. You kind of have to go on your gut feeling, after doing all the checking and questioning possible. ASR wasn't perfect, but I believe they save our son's life. Overall we were pleased, ... Read more but there were some things we wish had gone smoother. He got his education, lots of therapy, both private and group, learned how to get along with others and had many experiences unique to ASR. Plus there were many recreational and other non-curricular activities. He clearly needed to be there for at least 14 months. The staff was terrific and communication mostly good. We were very involved in the therapuetic process
...
Link to original, unedited post. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=30897#p372587) Quoted For Truth.
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
FINALLY we're getting to some truth about Whooter's family. He now admits he had a SON at ASR and not a daughter. This is consistent with John Reuben's family history as well. Hmmmm...
I know it's hard to choose a school or program when your kid is in a crisis and you don't see any other alternative. You kind of have to go on your gut feeling, after doing all the checking and questioning possible. ASR wasn't perfect, but I believe they save our son's life. Overall we were pleased, ... Read more but there were some things we wish had gone smoother. He got his education, lots of therapy, both private and group, learned how to get along with others and had many experiences unique to ASR. Plus there were many recreational and other non-curricular activities. He clearly needed to be there for at least 14 months. The staff was terrific and communication mostly good. We were very involved in the therapuetic process
...
Link to original, unedited post. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=30897#p372587) Quoted For Truth.
We're learning a lot about Whooter the last couple of days...Jail time...Arrests...Drug use...DOESN'T actually have a daughter, but rather a SON who went to ASR.
I think this shines a light on his obsession with HLA as well. John Reuben had two sons in programs; one in ASR and one in HLA. That context makes a bit more sense in regard to Whooter now that he has admitted he had a son that went to ASR. Maybe the OP and RobertBruce are right and Whooter is actually John Reuben of STICC.
-
Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
...
-
FINALLY we're getting to some truth about Whooter's family. He now admits he had a SON at ASR and not a daughter. This is consistent with John Reuben's family history as well. Hmmmm...
I know it's hard to choose a school or program when your kid is in a crisis and you don't see any other alternative. You kind of have to go on your gut feeling, after doing all the checking and questioning possible. ASR wasn't perfect, but I believe they save our son's life. Overall we were pleased, ... Read more but there were some things we wish had gone smoother. He got his education, lots of therapy, both private and group, learned how to get along with others and had many experiences unique to ASR. Plus there were many recreational and other non-curricular activities. He clearly needed to be there for at least 14 months. The staff was terrific and communication mostly good. We were very involved in the therapuetic process
...
Link to original, unedited post. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=30897#p372587) Quoted For Truth.
We're learning a lot about Whooter the last couple of days...Jail time...Arrests...Drug use...DOESN'T actually have a daughter, but rather a SON who went to ASR.
I think this shines a light on his obsession with HLA as well. John Reuben had two sons in programs; one in ASR and one in HLA. That context makes a bit more sense in regard to Whooter now that he has admitted he had a son that went to ASR. Maybe the OP and RobertBruce are right and Whooter is actually John Reuben of STICC.
The avoidance of these facts is telling.
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Still avoiding those important questions I see.
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
...
-
FINALLY we're getting to some truth about Whooter's family. He now admits he had a SON at ASR and not a daughter. This is consistent with John Reuben's family history as well. Hmmmm...
I know it's hard to choose a school or program when your kid is in a crisis and you don't see any other alternative. You kind of have to go on your gut feeling, after doing all the checking and questioning possible. ASR wasn't perfect, but I believe they save our son's life. Overall we were pleased, ... Read more but there were some things we wish had gone smoother. He got his education, lots of therapy, both private and group, learned how to get along with others and had many experiences unique to ASR. Plus there were many recreational and other non-curricular activities. He clearly needed to be there for at least 14 months. The staff was terrific and communication mostly good. We were very involved in the therapuetic process
...
Link to original, unedited post. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=30897#p372587) Quoted For Truth.
We're learning a lot about Whooter the last couple of days...Jail time...Arrests...Drug use...DOESN'T actually have a daughter, but rather a SON who went to ASR.
I think this shines a light on his obsession with HLA as well. John Reuben had two sons in programs; one in ASR and one in HLA. That context makes a bit more sense in regard to Whooter now that he has admitted he had a son that went to ASR. Maybe the OP and RobertBruce are right and Whooter is actually John Reuben of STICC.
:o
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
...
-
Here's another one ol' Whooter cleaned up about his own drug use. I quoted it and responded to it in the following post and when Whooter changed his screename from "LittleCat" to "TheWho" he went back and edited it to simply say "Thanks for the post". Check it out (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5057&p=149107&hilit=edited+by+thewho#p167860):
On 2005-11-22 14:10:00, LittleCat wrote:
"
On 2005-11-22 14:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Drugs are fucking GREAT! I'm glad I got sent to a program 'cause I learned about all the other drugs I had been missing out on. I don't think I ever would have tried crystal meth, cocaine, or heroin if I hadn't heard how great they were from other people in the program.
That's the best thing I walked away from the program with, a desire to do more drugs."
That is true!! I started smoking pot in high school and after 3 years I moved onto Mescaline (brown organic rocks!!). I think the pot raised my awareness and made me smart enough to realize that I needed to move onto better stuff. I still smoke pot once in a while, but after I wake up, some days, and rmember I blew my paycheck on coke I feel really stupid. Maybe I should stick with pot and work on getting my G.E.D. I wish more people would write articles like that, it makes me feel better about my choices and shit.
Thanks for the post"
Ahhh, LittleCat the active coke addict pontificating as to why KIDS need programs.
Dude, I took my own time to read ALL of your posts this morning. After careful consideration I have come to the conclusion that you're an idiot. I don't know how else to break it down for you.
You doggedly support abusive programs that have killed children in their care, but also admit to being a cokehead and a dope smoker. Did you ever think maybe YOU'RE the reason your kid got so incredibly fucked up? Maybe you were just a bad parent, as is the case with SO MANY of these kids locked up in kiddie jails? Looks like you need some treatment, pal.
Lay off the coke for a while and get your life together, then maybe we can talk.
So, there's the contemporaneous quote of TheWho with the full text, but take a look at how he cleaned it up later (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=5057&p=149107&hilit=edited+by+thewho#p149107):
On 2005-11-22 14:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Drugs are fucking GREAT! I'm glad I got sent to a program 'cause I learned about all the other drugs I had been missing out on. I don't think I ever would have tried crystal meth, cocaine, or heroin if I hadn't heard how great they were from other people in the program.
That's the best thing I walked away from the program with, a desire to do more drugs."
Thanks for the post[ This Message was edited by: TheWho on 2006-02-18 11:12 ]
This is the only post in the database on this date and this exact time - Tue Nov 22, 2005 6:10 pm. Posted by TheWho and later "cleaned up" by TheWho, who apparently doesn't want the world to know about his coke use, etc.
Now you can see why Whooter gets so upset when I post his quotes. I called him on his bullshit lies when he first got here and he has been trolling me ever since.
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
...
-
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Oh, you noticed that, too, Ursus? This is what's so funny about this troll called Whooter. He rails and rails about having to have "proof" or a "smoking gun" when we confront him and we then post links to his original posts that prove he's just a liar and a phony.
When he gets upset he just starts making up "quotes" from others. This is how you know you have him caught in some big lies. It's how he responds when he gets snagged telling whoppers. I do it to him a couple of times a week just to illustrate how he operates and to show others exactly what he is - a troll and an industry shill. His whole story is bogus.
All you have to do is link to his original post where he admits a fiduciary duty to Aspen Education and he freaks out and starts making up allsorts of stuff while at the same time accusing everyone else of "fabricating." I posted a link where he accused others of "fabricating" sixteen times when all they did was post his exact original posts. He's a total loser who spent five wasted years here trying to pass himself off as "just a regular parent" which everyone knows, via his own posts, is a huge lie.
Personally, I think it's funny that he has so little self control and I can make him do whatever I want remotely through a message board. That's how weak this joker is...
:roflmao: :roflmao: Still funny...
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Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
...
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Speaking of things that won't go away, Whootie can I get you to answer my earlier questions?
No, You are just trolling for drama, Devon. If you join in an honest conversation without attacking people and can maintain that for 10 posts or more then I may tackle your questions. But I am not going to go in circles with you.
...
The guy who does nothing but spam the board with his repetative nonsense talks about going in circles? If that isn't ironic I'm not sure what is.
I asked you two simple questions John, there was no attack. I'm interested in hearing why you really attended this meeting, and why you changed your mind regarding food rationing.
:beat:
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All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
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sting!!!! wont go away. lol
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How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is".
I thought you said you had a Masters in Business Administration? MBA
Screw you whootie, I have more degrees than you do. Your an industry shill. I could have figured out the math too because yes I did get my MBA, its just that my calculator on my laptop is not functioning.
Look, DJ, calm down. You are the one claiming that I must have all this inside knowledge because I can figure out that TBS's cost more than Wilderness therapy. I just did the math for you thats all. If you feel only industry people have that type of knowledge than that is your right to think that way. I just think your wrong thats all. Any person claiming to have an MBA should be able to figure where the real money is between TBS and Wilderness.
Just stating my opinion, thats all.
...
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Link to the OP, please. I link to all of yours, as you demand of everyone else, but you just keep posting your made up nonsense with no link to the OP. I'll wait. Take your time. Accuracy is more important than speed.
In the meantime we can read this (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976) to fill the time:
When is this supposed to take place?
Well the announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.
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How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as Tipping
No wonder why you try to derail every Aspen thread. You make your living off Aspen!
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Everyone knows the only one who made money off of this industry is Dysfunction. I wonder how much money he made in exchange for abusing and jailing children? I wonder if he kept that money, knowing that he made it for abusing other people's children. How much did he make?
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I guess you can't read, SUCK IT. BTW, why are you and Whooter never here at the same time? :roflmao: :jerry: Too much trouble to log in and log out for each post I guess.
Link to the OP, please. I link to all of yours, as you demand of everyone else, but you just keep posting your made up nonsense with no link to the OP. I'll wait. Take your time. Accuracy is more important than speed.
In the meantime we can read this (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976) to fill the time:
When is this supposed to take place?
Well the announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.
...
How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as Tipping
No wonder why you try to derail every Aspen thread. You make your living off Aspen!
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DJ, anyone can do what you do. We just dont chose to do it. You have been trolling here on fornits for years and finally you are getting a taste of your own. We forced you to log in and you chose not to partake in any conversations, now look at the crap that you post all day. You claim to have all this education yet you cannot have a civil conversation about the industry you claimed to have worked in (on any level except to discredit other posters).
Fact One: This post shows Dysfunction Junction worked at Daytop at one time. It also shows that he had a felony conviction and prison sentance.
Fact Two: He no longer works in the TBS field. According to him he got disillusioned with the industry. I suspect he isn't allowed to be employed by them with a previous felony conviction as most TBS's do background checks for most of their employees usually.
I'll bust your fucking teeth down your throat, choke you until you nearly fall unconscious, then give you a wake-up kick to the temple and send you on your merry way. Your pain, suffering and disfigurement wouldn't matter .......
Look, DJ, you dont need to threaten everyone that disagrees with you. I think we all know that if it were not for your criminal past that you would still be working in the TT industry instead of posting here on fornits to establish a resume that doesnt exist in real life. Maybe when you took this anger of yours out on the kids is why HLA decide to release you. I believe you have a past post where you admitted this unless you edited it out all ready.
...
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Whooter he does bring a good point regarding your post concerning a son and not a daughter. Can you explain this discrepancy?
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Whooter he does bring a good point regarding your post concerning a son and not a daughter. Can you explain this discrepancy?
Well take a look at your friend DJ’s post and see what is written:
Link to DJ's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372593)
Then compare it to this post on an ASR chat board (Look at the 7th post)... Ha,Ha,Ha caught red handed again:
Link to ASR chat board (http://http://www.trulia.com/schools/MA-Cummington/Academy_At_Swift_River/)
This is what your buddy Dysfunction Junction tries to pass along as proof. He deals with deception and he has a burning need to try to discredit those who disagree with him. The site was his link originally and he started referring to them and even started a thread based on them. But when I referenced them he claims they were written by me.
...
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DJ, anyone can do what you do. We just dont chose to do it. You have been trolling here on fornits for years and finally you are getting a taste of your own. We forced you to log in and you chose not to partake in any conversations, now look at the crap that you post all day. You claim to have all this education yet you cannot have a civil conversation about the industry you claimed to have worked in (on any level except to discredit other posters).
Fact One: This post shows Dysfunction Junction worked at Daytop at one time. It also shows that he had a felony conviction and prison sentance.
Fact Two: He no longer works in the TBS field. According to him he got disillusioned with the industry. I suspect he isn't allowed to be employed by them with a previous felony conviction as most TBS's do background checks for most of their employees usually.
I'll bust your fucking teeth down your throat, choke you until you nearly fall unconscious, then give you a wake-up kick to the temple and send you on your merry way. Your pain, suffering and disfigurement wouldn't matter .......
Look, DJ, you dont need to threaten everyone that disagrees with you. I think we all know that if it were not for your criminal past that you would still be working in the TT industry instead of posting here on fornits to establish a resume that doesnt exist in real life. Maybe when you took this anger of yours out on the kids is why HLA decide to release you. I believe you have a past post where you admitted this unless you edited it out all ready.
...
Whoooooaaaaa....that's right DJ, has a criminal record for selling dope. He was a drug dealer at one time. Well Mr. DJ, now would be the time to humble oneself. AY......
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Whooter he does bring a good point regarding your post concerning a son and not a daughter. Can you explain this discrepancy?
Well take a look at your friend DJ’s post and see what is written:
Link to DJ's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372593)
Then compare it to this post on an ASR chat board (Look at the 7th post)... Ha,Ha,Ha caught red handed again:
Link to ASR chat board (http://http://www.trulia.com/schools/MA-Cummington/Academy_At_Swift_River/)
This is what your buddy Dysfunction Junction tries to pass along as proof. He deals with deception and he has a burning need to try to discredit those who disagree with him. The site was his link originally and he started referring to them and even started a thread based on them. But when I referenced them he claims they were written by me.
...
I QFTed Whooter's OP, but he didn't mention that he did this after. Look at the post times. He went back and did a little editing afterwards...
Last edited by Whooter on Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:45 am, edited 2 times in total.
It's probably his post on the ASR chat board, too. Sounds just like what he always says here.
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So why did you edit the post Whooter?
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Whooter he does bring a good point regarding your post concerning a son and not a daughter. Can you explain this discrepancy?
Well take a look at your friend DJ’s post and see what is written:
Link to DJ's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372593)
Then compare it to this post on an ASR chat board (Look at the 7th post)... Ha,Ha,Ha caught red handed again:
Link to ASR chat board (http://http://www.trulia.com/schools/MA-Cummington/Academy_At_Swift_River/)
This is what your buddy Dysfunction Junction tries to pass along as proof. He deals with deception and he has a burning need to try to discredit those who disagree with him. The site was his link originally and he started referring to them and even started a thread based on them. But when I referenced them he claims they were written by me.
...
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Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
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Whooter what is your intent in flooding the boards? It doesn't much to move the conversation forward.
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Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
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Are you unwilling to answer the question Whooter?
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Are you unwilling to answer the question Whooter?
Sure, right after DJ comes clean and explains why he lied about Ottawa5 being a friend of mine, why he fabricated posts and put my name on them, why he lied about his education, why he fabricated a PM with my user-name on it and why he previously admitted to abusing kids in programs and now is changing his mind, why he ended up in jail and lost his job at HLA.
After those are answered I will address your issues. Okay Bob? He is interested in my past posts, so I think it only fair that he come clean himself.
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But you posted this, Whooter. No "fabrication." It's still in the DB for everyone to enjoy. If you can't even get over your own posts, how can we "move on"? :roflmao:
This is the plain and simple statement, written by Whooter, that has set off this spate of trolling due to its reposting by me:
When is this supposed to take place?
Well the announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.
...
How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as Tipping
Whooter made this statement several years ago and subsequently auctioned off his account, rendering him unable to change this information he wants nobody to see. The fact is that he said it of his own volition and was bragging about it.
The problem is that if everyone knows about this fiduciary duty, Whooter feels like five years of his time here posing as "just a regular parent" have been wasted, and indeed they are.
When I started quoting this post and linking to it, Whooter got increasingly more upset and now spends all day every day being my personal troll in various guises: Whooter, SUCK IT, Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin, John McCain, et al.
My purpose in quoting this damning statement is twofold: one, it exposes Whooter for who and what he really is, a figure whose income is derived from Aspen Education; and two, to draw him out of his carefully crafted image to expose him for the desperate Aspen Education troll he is. Both objectives are complete.
Watch as Whooter logs in and out with his various sockpuppets, accusing me of abusing and raping children because he has been definitively linked to Aspen Education and its systemic abuse problems. It's interesting to note also that Whooter accuses me of the very things that Aspen Education programs have been being shut down for recently. He is simply trying to project qualities onto me that have been legally proven against Aspen Education.
Industry people always squeal the loudest when they've been stuck in the wallet. Look at this piggy squeal.
This is a desperate troll, folks. Whooter/SUCK IT/et al is an exemplar of the people to whom you might have entrusted your child's welfare at Aspen Education programs. If their marketing people behave this way, doesn't that provide a window into their corporate culture and strategy, as Ed Con Tom Croake recently exposed on his FamilyLights website? Even Ed Cons who make their living referring kids to Aspen are turning on it due to their recent spate of killings, abuse and neglect resulting in facility closures. This is how Aspen Education employees behave in public. Now just imagine how they behave in private, behind closed doors, alone with your child. Think about that for a while.
Caveat emptor, parents.
I went into Whooter's administrative tools and gave myself "full control." :nods:
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Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
...
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Whooter he does bring a good point regarding your post concerning a son and not a daughter. Can you explain this discrepancy?
Well take a look at your friend DJ’s post and see what is written:
Link to DJ's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372593)
Then compare it to this post on an ASR chat board (Look at the 7th post)... Ha,Ha,Ha caught red handed again:
Link to ASR chat board (http://http://www.trulia.com/schools/MA-Cummington/Academy_At_Swift_River/)
This is what your buddy Dysfunction Junction tries to pass along as proof. He deals with deception and he has a burning need to try to discredit those who disagree with him. The site was his link originally and he started referring to them and even started a thread based on them. But when I referenced them he claims they were written by me.
...
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All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
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sting!!!! wont go away. lol
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Are you unwilling to answer the question Whooter?
Sure, right after DJ comes clean and explains why he lied about Ottawa5 being a friend of mine, why he fabricated posts and put my name on them, why he lied about his education, why he fabricated a PM with my user-name on it and why he previously admitted to abusing kids in programs and now is changing his mind, why he ended up in jail and lost his job at HLA.
After those are answered I will address your issues. Okay Bob? He is interested in my past posts, so I think it only fair that he come clean himself.
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Trying to force DJ to answering questions the way you want him to isn't going to amount to anything. It also has nothing to do with my questions to you regarding why you flood the boards.
That aside for the moment though, let me ask you this: Can you honestly claim that you have not done or treated others (myself included) with the exact same actions or manner that you're now accusing DJ of doing? Honestly, why begrudge or even attempt to hold someone else accountable for something you yourself have done on countless occasions?
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Are you unwilling to answer the question Whooter?
Sure, right after DJ comes clean and explains why he lied about Ottawa5 being a friend of mine, why he fabricated posts and put my name on them, why he lied about his education, why he fabricated a PM with my user-name on it and why he previously admitted to abusing kids in programs and now is changing his mind, why he ended up in jail and lost his job at HLA.
After those are answered I will address your issues. Okay Bob? He is interested in my past posts, so I think it only fair that he come clean himself.
...
Trying to force DJ to answering questions the way you want him to isn't going to amount to anything. It also has nothing to do with my questions to you regarding why you flood the boards.
That aside for the moment though, let me ask you this: Can you honestly claim that you have not done or treated others (myself included) with the exact same actions or manner that you're now accusing DJ of doing? Honestly, why begrudge or even attempt to hold someone else accountable for something you yourself have done on countless occasions?
Robert didn't I tell you a few days ago to stop with all this nonsense. Didn't I????.....
Nobody cares for your persona here, it is stupid and your not even Scottish.
Go away....now.
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Are you unwilling to answer the question Whooter?
Sure, right after DJ comes clean and explains why he lied about Ottawa5 being a friend of mine, why he fabricated posts and put my name on them, why he lied about his education, why he fabricated a PM with my user-name on it and why he previously admitted to abusing kids in programs and now is changing his mind, why he ended up in jail and lost his job at HLA.
After those are answered I will address your issues. Okay Bob? He is interested in my past posts, so I think it only fair that he come clean himself.
...
Trying to force DJ to answering questions the way you want him to isn't going to amount to anything. It also has nothing to do with my questions to you regarding why you flood the boards.
That aside for the moment though, let me ask you this: Can you honestly claim that you have not done or treated others (myself included) with the exact same actions or manner that you're now accusing DJ of doing? Honestly, why begrudge or even attempt to hold someone else accountable for something you yourself have done on countless occasions?
Again, lets wait until DJ comes clean. Look at the title of this thread ( and a few others)and try to tell the readers that DJ didnt flood the forum for years trying to build a case against me because I wouldnt agree with his thinking.
1.He fabricated posts and put my name on them.
2. He lied about his education and when confronted cleaned up his history.
3. He fabricated a PM and put my user-name on it
4. He previously admitted to abusing kids in programs and now is changing his mind
5.He ended up in jail and lost his job at HLA, why? Was it for child abuse?
6. He lied about Ottawa5 being a friend of mine and planning to open up a program together.
7. He fabricated a post saying I admitted to working for a program.
8. He fabricated a post which stated I had a son at ASR.
See, your friend DJ, was being a prick all these years because he couldnt stand living a lie. Telling everyone that all programs are abusive and having to live with the fact that he abused kids himself. Taking a professional oath of protecting children and promising to report abuse, yet working at several programs himself and never saying anything to help all these kids that were being abused around him.
His logic and argument just falls apart around him as he keeps a white knuckled grip on all the strings that hold up the facade around him. How can he change his mind and start telling us now he never abused a child and then say all programs are abusive? If he had all this training and degrees he would know that he was obligated to call the department of social services the first day he walked through the door.
None of it adds up.
...
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Again, lets wait until DJ comes clean. Look at the title of this thread ( and a few others)and try to tell the readers that DJ didnt flood the forum for years trying to build a case against me because I wouldnt agree with his thinking.
1.He fabricated posts and put my name on them.
2. He lied about his education and when confronted cleaned up his history.
3. He fabricated a PM and put my user-name on it
4. He previously admitted to abusing kids in programs and now is changing his mind
5.He ended up in jail and lost his job at HLA, why? Was it for child abuse?
6. He lied about Ottawa5 being a friend of mine and planning to open up a program together.
7. He fabricated a post saying I admitted to working for a program.
See, your friend DJ, was being a prick all these years because he couldnt stand living a lie. Telling everyone that all programs are abusive and having to live with the fact that he abused kids himself. Taking a professional oath of protecting children and promising to report abuse, yet working at several programs himself and never saying anything to help all these kids that were being abused around him.
His logic and argument just falls apart around him as he keeps a white knuckled grip on all the strings that hold up the facade around him. How can he change his mind and start telling us now he never abused a child and then say all programs are abusive? If he had all this training and degrees he would know that he was obligated to call the department of social services the first day he walked through the door.
None of it adds up.
Again though Whooter, can you honestly claim you haven't done similar actions yourself on here?
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Again, lets wait until DJ comes clean. Look at the title of this thread ( and a few others)and try to tell the readers that DJ didnt flood the forum for years trying to build a case against me because I wouldnt agree with his thinking.
1.He fabricated posts and put my name on them.
2. He lied about his education and when confronted cleaned up his history.
3. He fabricated a PM and put my user-name on it
4. He previously admitted to abusing kids in programs and now is changing his mind
5.He ended up in jail and lost his job at HLA, why? Was it for child abuse?
6. He lied about Ottawa5 being a friend of mine and planning to open up a program together.
7. He fabricated a post saying I admitted to working for a program.
See, your friend DJ, was being a prick all these years because he couldnt stand living a lie. Telling everyone that all programs are abusive and having to live with the fact that he abused kids himself. Taking a professional oath of protecting children and promising to report abuse, yet working at several programs himself and never saying anything to help all these kids that were being abused around him.
His logic and argument just falls apart around him as he keeps a white knuckled grip on all the strings that hold up the facade around him. How can he change his mind and start telling us now he never abused a child and then say all programs are abusive? If he had all this training and degrees he would know that he was obligated to call the department of social services the first day he walked through the door.
None of it adds up.
Again though Whooter, can you honestly claim you haven't done similar actions yourself on here?
Again, lets wait until DJ comes clean, then I will answer your questions. Look at the title of this thread ( and a few others)and try to tell the readers that DJ didnt flood the forum for years trying to build a case against me because I wouldnt agree with his thinking.
1.He fabricated posts and put my name on them.
2. He lied about his education and when confronted cleaned up his history.
3. He fabricated a PM and put my user-name on it
4. He previously admitted to abusing kids in programs and now is changing his mind
5.He ended up in jail and lost his job at HLA, why? Was it for child abuse?
6. He lied about Ottawa5 being a friend of mine and planning to open up a program together.
7. He fabricated a post saying I admitted to working for a program.
8. He fabricated a post which stated I had a son at ASR.
See, your friend DJ, was being a prick all these years because he couldnt stand living a lie. Telling everyone that all programs are abusive and having to live with the fact that he abused kids himself. Taking a professional oath of protecting children and promising to report abuse, yet working at several programs himself and never saying anything to help all these kids that were being abused around him.
His logic and argument just falls apart around him as he keeps a white knuckled grip on all the strings that hold up the facade around him. How can he change his mind and start telling us now he never abused a child and then say all programs are abusive? If he had all this training and degrees he would know that he was obligated to call the department of social services the first day he walked through the door.
None of it adds up.
...
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RB, I never did any of those things anyway, so it's moot. But Whooter has done all of them, repeatedly.
Man, this dude is all ate up. :roflmao: "Bob, make DJ be nice to me and then I'll answer you!" :cry:
How many people think Whooter/SUCK IT would last a week in any program he pimps? He'd be sitting in the corner rocking back and forth sucking his thumb.
This is child's play compared to what they do at Aspen programs to children. He can't even hack it on a message board even though everything I posted was quoted and linked back to his OP's. Imagine how he would react if I actually started getting creative?
First, I wouldn't. I just post straight up quotations from Whooter (although he has been hacking up/copying/pasting all sorts of stuff with no attribution) and second, there's no need! He's so feeble and weak that just throwing his own words up here with a link completely wrecks him.
He's just a butt-hurt ass-clown that wasted five years of his sorry life on Fornits for a net effect of zero. Or maybe negative zero if there were such a thing.
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Whoops, DJ, caught in another lie. DJ's MO is falsifying posts to make it seem like I wrote them. You should ask him to show you a post where Ottawa5 and I were speaking together... hint (it doesnt exist). I can show you that one later.
Whooter he does bring a good point regarding your post concerning a son and not a daughter. Can you explain this discrepancy?
Well take a look at your friend DJ’s post and see what is written:
Link to DJ's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372593)
Then compare it to this post on an ASR chat board (Look at the 7th post)... Ha,Ha,Ha caught red handed again:
Link to ASR chat board (http://http://www.trulia.com/schools/MA-Cummington/Academy_At_Swift_River/)
This is what your buddy Dysfunction Junction tries to pass along as proof. He deals with deception and he has a burning need to try to discredit those who disagree with him. The site was his link originally and he started referring to them and even started a thread based on them. But when I referenced them he claims they were written by me.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372775#p372775)
...
-
Whoops, DJ, caught in another lie. DJ's MO is falsifying posts to make it seem like I wrote them.
Go ahead and post some of them so we can see, Whooter. I'll be glad to review these posts for accuracy.
Here's one we can begin with while we wait for you to put up the ones you claim aren't yours:
When is this supposed to take place?
Well the announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.
...
How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as Tipping
Link to origninal FIduciary Duty post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=41&t=23299&p=283976&hilit=+fiduciary#p283976) :rofl:
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Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
...
-
Again, lets wait until DJ comes clean, then I will answer your questions. Look at the title of this thread ( and a few others)and try to tell the readers that DJ didnt flood the forum for years trying to build a case against me because I wouldnt agree with his thinking.
1.He fabricated posts and put my name on them.
2. He lied about his education and when confronted cleaned up his history.
3. He fabricated a PM and put my user-name on it
4. He previously admitted to abusing kids in programs and now is changing his mind
5.He ended up in jail and lost his job at HLA, why? Was it for child abuse?
6. He lied about Ottawa5 being a friend of mine and planning to open up a program together.
7. He fabricated a post saying I admitted to working for a program.
8. He fabricated a post which stated I had a son at ASR.
See, your friend DJ, was being a prick all these years because he couldnt stand living a lie. Telling everyone that all programs are abusive and having to live with the fact that he abused kids himself. Taking a professional oath of protecting children and promising to report abuse, yet working at several programs himself and never saying anything to help all these kids that were being abused around him.
His logic and argument just falls apart around him as he keeps a white knuckled grip on all the strings that hold up the facade around him. How can he change his mind and start telling us now he never abused a child and then say all programs are abusive? If he had all this training and degrees he would know that he was obligated to call the department of social services the first day he walked through the door.
None of it adds up.
...
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Whoops! Whooter is caught blatantly altering (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=690#p372270) the very post he claims I altered. Ursus even pinched you for it and linked back to his own OP that you jacked up. Oh, you're a fucking genius, Whooter. Quit while you're behind, crybaby.
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Good Catch, Ursus. Links are not his strength it appears.
ouch!!! lol
Actually, Whooter, my post was in response to your posting of various falacious Dysfunction Junction posts which apparently are the sole creation of your imagination. Moreover, my original quote (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=660#p372079), before you altered it, read as follows:
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
PLUS... Your original reply to my post, before you altered it, read as follows:
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Sure, just like everyone else.
-
Whoops, DJ, caught in another lie. DJ's MO is falsifying posts to make it seem like I wrote them. You should ask him to show you a post where Ottawa5 and I were speaking together... hint (it doesnt exist). I can show you that one later.
Whooter he does bring a good point regarding your post concerning a son and not a daughter. Can you explain this discrepancy?
Well take a look at your friend DJ’s post and see what is written:
Link to DJ's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372593)
Then compare it to this post on an ASR chat board (Look at the 7th post)... Ha,Ha,Ha caught red handed again:
Link to ASR chat board (http://http://www.trulia.com/schools/MA-Cummington/Academy_At_Swift_River/)
This is what your buddy Dysfunction Junction tries to pass along as proof. He deals with deception and he has a burning need to try to discredit those who disagree with him. The site was his link originally and he started referring to them and even started a thread based on them. But when I referenced them he claims they were written by me.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372775#p372775)
...
-
Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
...
-
Whooter's trolling too furiously to stop and see he has been busted red-handed posting a hacked up post by Ursus. Have a read of Whooter's complete and total fabrication of Ursus' post... This guy is an idiot!
Whoops! Whooter is caught blatantly altering (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=690#p372270) the very post he claims I altered. Ursus even pinched you for it and linked back to his own OP that you jacked up. Oh, you're a fucking genius, Whooter. Quit while you're behind, crybaby.
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Good Catch, Ursus. Links are not his strength it appears.
ouch!!! lol
Actually, Whooter, my post was in response to your posting of various falacious Dysfunction Junction posts which apparently are the sole creation of your imagination. Moreover, my original quote (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=660#p372079), before you altered it, read as follows:
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
PLUS... Your original reply to my post, before you altered it, read as follows:
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Sure, just like everyone else.
-
DJ, anyone can do what you do. We just dont chose to do it. You have been trolling here on fornits for years and finally you are getting a taste of your own. We forced you to log in and you chose not to partake in any conversations, now look at the crap that you post all day. You claim to have all this education yet you cannot have a civil conversation about the industry you claimed to have worked in (on any level except to discredit other posters).
Fact One: This post shows Dysfunction Junction worked at Daytop at one time. It also shows that he had a felony conviction and prison sentance.
Fact Two: He no longer works in the TBS field. According to him he got disillusioned with the industry. I suspect he isn't allowed to be employed by them with a previous felony conviction as most TBS's do background checks for most of their employees usually.
I'll bust your fucking teeth down your throat, choke you until you nearly fall unconscious, then give you a wake-up kick to the temple and send you on your merry way. Your pain, suffering and disfigurement wouldn't matter .......
Look, DJ, you dont need to threaten everyone that disagrees with you. I think we all know that if it were not for your criminal past that you would still be working in the TT industry instead of posting here on fornits to establish a resume that doesnt exist in real life. Maybe when you took this anger of yours out on the kids is why HLA decide to release you. I believe you have a past post where you admitted this unless you edited it out all ready.
...
-
Whooter he does bring a good point regarding your post concerning a son and not a daughter. Can you explain this discrepancy?
Well take a look at your friend DJ’s post and see what is written:
Link to DJ's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372593)
Then compare it to this post on an ASR chat board (Look at the 7th post)... Ha,Ha,Ha caught red handed again:
Link to ASR chat board (http://http://www.trulia.com/schools/MA-Cummington/Academy_At_Swift_River/)
This is what your buddy Dysfunction Junction tries to pass along as proof. He deals with deception and he has a burning need to try to discredit those who disagree with him. The site was his link originally and he started referring to them and even started a thread based on them. But when I referenced them he claims they were written by me.
...
-
How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is"
You have thought that since I “knew where the real money was” then that meant I was an industry person. But what it really revealed is that there is a really good chance that you never earned an MBA to not figure out basic business math like that. Anyone with any business knowledge could figure that out in their head, DJ. So you see you shot yourself in the foot by claiming only and industry person could figure this out and by saying that you showed us that you had no business degree.
...
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I'm just trying to address your "concerns" Whooter. You posted a fabricated post as "evidence" I was fabricating. And you got pinched...again.
Whooter's trolling too furiously to stop and see he has been busted red-handed posting a hacked up post by Ursus. Have a read of Whooter's complete and total fabrication of Ursus' post... This guy is an idiot!
Whoops! Whooter is caught blatantly altering (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=690#p372270) the very post he claims I altered. Ursus even pinched you for it and linked back to his own OP that you jacked up. Oh, you're a fucking genius, Whooter. Quit while you're behind, crybaby.
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Good Catch, Ursus. Links are not his strength it appears.
ouch!!! lol
Actually, Whooter, my post was in response to your posting of various falacious Dysfunction Junction posts which apparently are the sole creation of your imagination. Moreover, my original quote (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=660#p372079), before you altered it, read as follows:
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
PLUS... Your original reply to my post, before you altered it, read as follows:
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?[/size]
Sure, just like everyone else.
:cheers: :feedtrolls:
-
Whooter he does bring a good point regarding your post concerning a son and not a daughter. Can you explain this discrepancy?
Well take a look at your friend DJ’s post and see what is written:
Link to DJ's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372593)
Then compare it to this post on an ASR chat board (Look at the 7th post)... Ha,Ha,Ha caught red handed again:
Link to ASR chat board (http://http://www.trulia.com/schools/MA-Cummington/Academy_At_Swift_River/)
This is what your buddy Dysfunction Junction tries to pass along as proof. He deals with deception and he has a burning need to try to discredit those who disagree with him. The site was his link originally and he started referring to them and even started a thread based on them. But when I referenced them he claims they were written by me.
...
-
How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is".
I thought you said you had a Masters in Business Administration? MBA
Screw you whootie, I have more degrees than you do. Your an industry shill. I could have figured out the math too because yes I did get my MBA, its just that my calculator on my laptop is not functioning.
Look, DJ, calm down. You are the one claiming that I must have all this inside knowledge because I can figure out that TBS's cost more than Wilderness therapy. I just did the math for you thats all. If you feel only industry people have that type of knowledge than that is your right to think that way. I just think your wrong thats all. Any person claiming to have an MBA should be able to figure where the real money is between TBS and Wilderness.
Just stating my opinion, thats all.
...
-
Again, lets wait until DJ comes clean, then I will answer your questions. Look at the title of this thread ( and a few others)and try to tell the readers that DJ didnt flood the forum for years trying to build a case against me because I wouldnt agree with his thinking.
1.He fabricated posts and put my name on them.
2. He lied about his education and when confronted cleaned up his history.
3. He fabricated a PM and put my user-name on it
4. He previously admitted to abusing kids in programs and now is changing his mind
5.He ended up in jail and lost his job at HLA, why? Was it for child abuse?
6. He lied about Ottawa5 being a friend of mine and planning to open up a program together.
7. He fabricated a post saying I admitted to working for a program.
8. He fabricated a post which stated I had a son at ASR.
See, your friend DJ, was being a prick all these years because he couldnt stand living a lie. Telling everyone that all programs are abusive and having to live with the fact that he abused kids himself. Taking a professional oath of protecting children and promising to report abuse, yet working at several programs himself and never saying anything to help all these kids that were being abused around him.
His logic and argument just falls apart around him as he keeps a white knuckled grip on all the strings that hold up the facade around him. How can he change his mind and start telling us now he never abused a child and then say all programs are abusive? If he had all this training and degrees he would know that he was obligated to call the department of social services the first day he walked through the door.
None of it adds up.
...
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RB, I guess Whooter doesn't want to resolve the "who altered who's posts" issue. Lols. When you're accusing someone of something you're doing in the very post in which you're accusing them, you've lost already.
Translation: "Wahhhhh! My vagina hurts!"
-
Aaaaaaaand Whooter can't stop misquoting Ursus and making shit up. Let's go for medium, maybe slightly on the heavier side.
(http://http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/e/e9/Pain4.jpg/800px-Pain4.jpg)
(http://http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/4/4e/Pain5.jpg/800px-Pain5.jpg)
-
Whoops, DJ, caught in another lie. DJ's MO is falsifying posts to make it seem like I wrote them. You should ask him to show you a post where Ottawa5 and I were speaking together... hint (it doesnt exist). I can show you that one later.
Whooter he does bring a good point regarding your post concerning a son and not a daughter. Can you explain this discrepancy?
Well take a look at your friend DJ’s post and see what is written:
Link to DJ's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372593)
Then compare it to this post on an ASR chat board (Look at the 7th post)... Ha,Ha,Ha caught red handed again:
Link to ASR chat board (http://http://www.trulia.com/schools/MA-Cummington/Academy_At_Swift_River/)
This is what your buddy Dysfunction Junction tries to pass along as proof. He deals with deception and he has a burning need to try to discredit those who disagree with him. The site was his link originally and he started referring to them and even started a thread based on them. But when I referenced them he claims they were written by me.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372775#p372775)
...
-
Cant get much clearer than that. Now we will wait to see where that post where DJ says Ottawa5 and I are starting a program.. Hmmmm.
...
-
How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is".
I thought you said you had a Masters in Business Administration? MBA
Screw you whootie, I have more degrees than you do. Your an industry shill. I could have figured out the math too because yes I did get my MBA, its just that my calculator on my laptop is not functioning.
Look, DJ, calm down. You are the one claiming that I must have all this inside knowledge because I can figure out that TBS's cost more than Wilderness therapy. I just did the math for you thats all. If you feel only industry people have that type of knowledge than that is your right to think that way. I just think your wrong thats all. Any person claiming to have an MBA should be able to figure where the real money is between TBS and Wilderness.
Just stating my opinion, thats all.
...
-
(http://http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/thumb/7/74/Kawaiidesu.jpg/350px-Kawaiidesu.jpg)
-
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
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This is Whooter we're talking about, Joel. Don't you mean 1.e4 e5 2.Qh5 Nc6 3.Bc4 Nf6 4.Qxf7# ?
-
Whoops, DJ, caught in another lie. DJ's MO is falsifying posts to make it seem like I wrote them. You should ask him to show you a post where Ottawa5 and I were speaking together... hint (it doesnt exist). I can show you that one later.
Whooter he does bring a good point regarding your post concerning a son and not a daughter. Can you explain this discrepancy?
Well take a look at your friend DJ’s post and see what is written:
Link to DJ's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372593)
Then compare it to this post on an ASR chat board (Look at the 7th post)... Ha,Ha,Ha caught red handed again:
Link to ASR chat board (http://http://www.trulia.com/schools/MA-Cummington/Academy_At_Swift_River/)
This is what your buddy Dysfunction Junction tries to pass along as proof. He deals with deception and he has a burning need to try to discredit those who disagree with him. The site was his link originally and he started referring to them and even started a thread based on them. But when I referenced them he claims they were written by me.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372775#p372775)
Lol, this is a good one, Whooter.
Whooter's OP, Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:09 am (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372587).
I know it's hard to choose a school or program when your kid is in a crisis and you don't see any other alternative. You kind of have to go on your gut feeling, after doing all the checking and questioning possible. ASR wasn't perfect, but I believe they save our son's life. Overall we were pleased, ... Read more but there were some things we wish had gone smoother. He got his education, lots of therapy, both private and group, learned how to get along with others and had many experiences unique to ASR. Plus there were many recreational and other non-curricular activities. He clearly needed to be there for at least 14 months. The staff was terrific and communication mostly good. We were very involved in the therapuetic proces.
...
My response, Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:18 am. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372593)
Then WhooterEDITS THE POST: Last edited by Whooter on Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:45 am, edited 2 times in total. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372587)
Then goes on to say I "fabricated" his quote. This guy is greasy lying weasel, but hey, all you have to do is look at the OP's and everyone can see exactly who's lying and who isn't.
Nice try, douche. Got any more you'd like me to address?
-
Whoops, DJ, caught in another lie. DJ's MO is falsifying posts to make it seem like I wrote them. You should ask him to show you a post where Ottawa5 and I were speaking together... hint (it doesnt exist). I can show you that one later.
Whooter he does bring a good point regarding your post concerning a son and not a daughter. Can you explain this discrepancy?
Well take a look at your friend DJ’s post and see what is written:
Link to DJ's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372593)
Then compare it to this post on an ASR chat board (Look at the 7th post)... Ha,Ha,Ha caught red handed again:
Link to ASR chat board (http://http://www.trulia.com/schools/MA-Cummington/Academy_At_Swift_River/)
This is what your buddy Dysfunction Junction tries to pass along as proof. He deals with deception and he has a burning need to try to discredit those who disagree with him. The site was his link originally and he started referring to them and even started a thread based on them. But when I referenced them he claims they were written by me.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372775#p372775)
...
-
DJ, anyone can do what you do. We just dont chose to do it. You have been trolling here on fornits for years and finally you are getting a taste of your own. We forced you to log in and you chose not to partake in any conversations, now look at the crap that you post all day. You claim to have all this education yet you cannot have a civil conversation about the industry you claimed to have worked in (on any level except to discredit other posters).
Fact One: This post shows Dysfunction Junction worked at Daytop at one time. It also shows that he had a felony conviction and prison sentance.
Fact Two: He no longer works in the TBS field. According to him he got disillusioned with the industry. I suspect he isn't allowed to be employed by them with a previous felony conviction as most TBS's do background checks for most of their employees usually.
I'll bust your fucking teeth down your throat, choke you until you nearly fall unconscious, then give you a wake-up kick to the temple and send you on your merry way. Your pain, suffering and disfigurement wouldn't matter .......
Look, DJ, you dont need to threaten everyone that disagrees with you. I think we all know that if it were not for your criminal past that you would still be working in the TT industry instead of posting here on fornits to establish a resume that doesnt exist in real life. Maybe when you took this anger of yours out on the kids is why HLA decide to release you. I believe you have a past post where you admitted this unless you edited it out all ready.
...
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Whooter's not interested in truth, DJ; he's only interested in making things go away. Which is why pretending to be able to have discussions him is such a waste of time.
This whole thread has become such a clusterfuck that the only rational thing to do is try to mercy-kill it with gore and porn.
-
Again, lets wait until DJ comes clean, then I will answer your questions. Look at the title of this thread ( and a few others)and try to tell the readers that DJ didnt flood the forum for years trying to build a case against me because I wouldnt agree with his thinking.
1.He fabricated posts and put my name on them.
2. He lied about his education and when confronted cleaned up his history.
3. He fabricated a PM and put my user-name on it
4. He previously admitted to abusing kids in programs and now is changing his mind
5.He ended up in jail and lost his job at HLA, why? Was it for child abuse?
6. He lied about Ottawa5 being a friend of mine and planning to open up a program together.
7. He fabricated a post saying I admitted to working for a program.
8. He fabricated a post which stated I had a son at ASR.
See, your friend DJ, was being a prick all these years because he couldnt stand living a lie. Telling everyone that all programs are abusive and having to live with the fact that he abused kids himself. Taking a professional oath of protecting children and promising to report abuse, yet working at several programs himself and never saying anything to help all these kids that were being abused around him.
His logic and argument just falls apart around him as he keeps a white knuckled grip on all the strings that hold up the facade around him. How can he change his mind and start telling us now he never abused a child and then say all programs are abusive? If he had all this training and degrees he would know that he was obligated to call the department of social services the first day he walked through the door.
None of it adds up.
...
-
I'm wondering if this is copypasta or an actual bot?
-
Lets take a look at the education post that DJ fabricated for himself. Let me see if I can dig it up.
...
-
Butt-hurt troll, Whooter, gets caught in another whopper while holding it out as "proof" I "fabricated" it. Links and all...
Whoops, DJ, caught in another lie. DJ's MO is falsifying posts to make it seem like I wrote them. You should ask him to show you a post where Ottawa5 and I were speaking together... hint (it doesnt exist). I can show you that one later.
Whooter he does bring a good point regarding your post concerning a son and not a daughter. Can you explain this discrepancy?
Well take a look at your friend DJ’s post and see what is written:
Link to DJ's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372593)
Then compare it to this post on an ASR chat board (Look at the 7th post)... Ha,Ha,Ha caught red handed again:
Link to ASR chat board (http://http://www.trulia.com/schools/MA-Cummington/Academy_At_Swift_River/)
This is what your buddy Dysfunction Junction tries to pass along as proof. He deals with deception and he has a burning need to try to discredit those who disagree with him. The site was his link originally and he started referring to them and even started a thread based on them. But when I referenced them he claims they were written by me.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372775#p372775)
Lol, this is a good one, Whooter.
Whooter's OP, Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:09 am (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372587).
I know it's hard to choose a school or program when your kid is in a crisis and you don't see any other alternative. You kind of have to go on your gut feeling, after doing all the checking and questioning possible. ASR wasn't perfect, but I believe they save our son's life. Overall we were pleased, ... Read more but there were some things we wish had gone smoother. He got his education, lots of therapy, both private and group, learned how to get along with others and had many experiences unique to ASR. Plus there were many recreational and other non-curricular activities. He clearly needed to be there for at least 14 months. The staff was terrific and communication mostly good. We were very involved in the therapuetic proces.
...
My response, Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:18 am. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372593)
Then WhooterEDITS THE POST: Last edited by Whooter on Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:45 am, edited 2 times in total. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372587)
Then goes on to say I "fabricated" his quote. This guy is greasy lying weasel, but hey, all you have to do is look at the OP's and everyone can see exactly who's lying and who isn't.
Nice try, douche. Got any more you'd like me to address?
Whooter posts at 10:09, I quote it and link to it at 10:18 then Whooter edits it twice by 11:45 and starts claiming I "fabricated" it. You can't make it up, folks!
-
Dig this up instead.
(http://http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/d/d1/Babycase2.jpg)
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Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
-
Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
...
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Whoops! Whooter is caught blatantly altering (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=690#p372270) the very post he claims I altered. Ursus even pinched you for it and linked back to his own OP that you jacked up. Oh, you're a fucking genius, Whooter. Quit while you're behind, crybaby.
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Good Catch, Ursus. Links are not his strength it appears.
ouch!!! lol
Actually, Whooter, my post was in response to your posting of various falacious Dysfunction Junction posts which apparently are the sole creation of your imagination. Moreover, my original quote (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=660#p372079), before you altered it, read as follows:
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
PLUS... Your original reply to my post, before you altered it, read as follows:
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Sure, just like everyone else.
:twofinger: :notworthy: :suicide:
-
Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
...
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is".
I thought you said you had a Masters in Business Administration? MBA
Screw you whootie, I have more degrees than you do. Your an industry shill. I could have figured out the math too because yes I did get my MBA, its just that my calculator on my laptop is not functioning.
Look, DJ, calm down. You are the one claiming that I must have all this inside knowledge because I can figure out that TBS's cost more than Wilderness therapy. I just did the math for you thats all. If you feel only industry people have that type of knowledge than that is your right to think that way. I just think your wrong thats all. Any person claiming to have an MBA should be able to figure where the real money is between TBS and Wilderness.
Just stating my opinion, thats all.
...
-
DJ, anyone can do what you do. We just dont chose to do it. You have been trolling here on fornits for years and finally you are getting a taste of your own. We forced you to log in and you chose not to partake in any conversations, now look at the crap that you post all day. You claim to have all this education yet you cannot have a civil conversation about the industry you claimed to have worked in (on any level except to discredit other posters).
Fact One: This post shows Dysfunction Junction worked at Daytop at one time. It also shows that he had a felony conviction and prison sentance.
Fact Two: He no longer works in the TBS field. According to him he got disillusioned with the industry. I suspect he isn't allowed to be employed by them with a previous felony conviction as most TBS's do background checks for most of their employees usually.
I'll bust your fucking teeth down your throat, choke you until you nearly fall unconscious, then give you a wake-up kick to the temple and send you on your merry way. Your pain, suffering and disfigurement wouldn't matter .......
Look, DJ, you dont need to threaten everyone that disagrees with you. I think we all know that if it were not for your criminal past that you would still be working in the TT industry instead of posting here on fornits to establish a resume that doesnt exist in real life. Maybe when you took this anger of yours out on the kids is why HLA decide to release you. I believe you have a past post where you admitted this unless you edited it out all ready.
...
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I demand that Whooter posts several spams, right now! Make it so... :rofl:
-
I demand that Whooter posts several spams, right now! Make it so... :rofl:
Sorry, DJ, you cannot control everyone. You spent years trolling those who disagreed with you and now you have lost the ability to even have a conversation. It is sad actually.
Why not create another thread about John Reubens lies or thewhos lies!!! lol and then call everyone else a troll!!!
...
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So, Whooter, if you'd like to have a conversation, tell us- how much money did you make from Aspen, directly or indirectly, so far?
-
I demand that Whooter posts several spams, right now! Make it so... :rofl:
Sorry, DJ, you cannot control everyone. You spent years trolling those who disagreed with you and now you have lost the ability to even have a conversation. It is sad actually.
Why not create another thread about John Reubens lies or thewhos lies!!! lol and then call everyone else a troll!!!
...
So says the controllee to the contoller, right on cue. Brilliant! You WILL post again in 30 seconds. I don't care if you need a rest. You'll do as I say you'll do.
This is the plain and simple statement, written by Whooter, that has set off this spate of trolling due to its reposting by me:
When is this supposed to take place?
Well the announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.
...
How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as Tipping
Whooter made this statement several years ago and subsequently auctioned off his account, rendering him unable to change this information he wants nobody to see. The fact is that he said it of his own volition and was bragging about it.
The problem is that if everyone knows about this fiduciary duty, Whooter feels like five years of his time here posing as "just a regular parent" have been wasted, and indeed they are.
When I started quoting this post and linking to it, Whooter got increasingly more upset and now spends all day every day being my personal troll in various guises: Whooter, SUCK IT, Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin, John McCain, et al.
My purpose in quoting this damning statement is twofold: one, it exposes Whooter for who and what he really is, a figure whose income is derived from Aspen Education; and two, to draw him out of his carefully crafted image to expose him for the desperate Aspen Education troll he is. Both objectives are complete.
Watch as Whooter logs in and out with his various sockpuppets, accusing me of abusing and raping children because he has been definitively linked to Aspen Education and its systemic abuse problems. It's interesting to note also that Whooter accuses me of the very things that Aspen Education programs have been being shut down for recently. He is simply trying to project qualities onto me that have been legally proven against Aspen Education.
Industry people always squeal the loudest when they've been stuck in the wallet. Look at this piggy squeal.
This is a desperate troll, folks. Whooter/SUCK IT/et al is an exemplar of the people to whom you might have entrusted your child's welfare at Aspen Education programs. If their marketing people behave this way, doesn't that provide a window into their corporate culture and strategy, as Ed Con Tom Croake recently exposed on his FamilyLights website? Even Ed Cons who make their living referring kids to Aspen are turning on it due to their recent spate of killings, abuse and neglect resulting in facility closures. This is how Aspen Education employees behave in public. Now just imagine how they behave in private, behind closed doors, alone with your child. Think about that for a while.
Caveat emptor, parents.
-
DJ, anyone can do what you do. We just dont chose to do it. You have been trolling here on fornits for years and finally you are getting a taste of your own. We forced you to log in and you chose not to partake in any conversations, now look at the crap that you post all day. You claim to have all this education yet you cannot have a civil conversation about the industry you claimed to have worked in (on any level except to discredit other posters).
Fact One: This post shows Dysfunction Junction worked at Daytop at one time. It also shows that he had a felony conviction and prison sentance.
Fact Two: He no longer works in the TBS field. According to him he got disillusioned with the industry. I suspect he isn't allowed to be employed by them with a previous felony conviction as most TBS's do background checks for most of their employees usually.
I'll bust your fucking teeth down your throat, choke you until you nearly fall unconscious, then give you a wake-up kick to the temple and send you on your merry way. Your pain, suffering and disfigurement wouldn't matter .......
Look, DJ, you dont need to threaten everyone that disagrees with you. I think we all know that if it were not for your criminal past that you would still be working in the TT industry instead of posting here on fornits to establish a resume that doesnt exist in real life. Maybe when you took this anger of yours out on the kids is why HLA decide to release you. I believe you have a past post where you admitted this unless you edited it out all ready.
...
-
How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is".
I thought you said you had a Masters in Business Administration? MBA
Screw you whootie, I have more degrees than you do. Your an industry shill. I could have figured out the math too because yes I did get my MBA, its just that my calculator on my laptop is not functioning.
Look, DJ, calm down. You are the one claiming that I must have all this inside knowledge because I can figure out that TBS's cost more than Wilderness therapy. I just did the math for you thats all. If you feel only industry people have that type of knowledge than that is your right to think that way. I just think your wrong thats all. Any person claiming to have an MBA should be able to figure where the real money is between TBS and Wilderness.
Just stating my opinion, thats all.
...
-
So says the controllee to the contoller, right on cue. Brilliant! You WILL post again in 30 seconds. I don't care if you need a rest. You'll do as I say you'll do.
Yeah, DJ, but can you make your servant stop posting instead?
-
That's better. I said thirty seconds and you did it in three. Do it again. NOW.
This is the plain and simple statement, written by Whooter, that has set off this spate of trolling due to its reposting by me:
When is this supposed to take place?
Well the announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.
...
How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as Tipping
Whooter made this statement several years ago and subsequently auctioned off his account, rendering him unable to change this information he wants nobody to see. The fact is that he said it of his own volition and was bragging about it.
The problem is that if everyone knows about this fiduciary duty, Whooter feels like five years of his time here posing as "just a regular parent" have been wasted, and indeed they are.
When I started quoting this post and linking to it, Whooter got increasingly more upset and now spends all day every day being my personal troll in various guises: Whooter, SUCK IT, Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin, John McCain, et al.
My purpose in quoting this damning statement is twofold: one, it exposes Whooter for who and what he really is, a figure whose income is derived from Aspen Education; and two, to draw him out of his carefully crafted image to expose him for the desperate Aspen Education troll he is. Both objectives are complete.
Watch as Whooter logs in and out with his various sockpuppets, accusing me of abusing and raping children because he has been definitively linked to Aspen Education and its systemic abuse problems. It's interesting to note also that Whooter accuses me of the very things that Aspen Education programs have been being shut down for recently. He is simply trying to project qualities onto me that have been legally proven against Aspen Education.
Industry people always squeal the loudest when they've been stuck in the wallet. Look at this piggy squeal.
This is a desperate troll, folks. Whooter/SUCK IT/et al is an exemplar of the people to whom you might have entrusted your child's welfare at Aspen Education programs. If their marketing people behave this way, doesn't that provide a window into their corporate culture and strategy, as Ed Con Tom Croake recently exposed on his FamilyLights website? Even Ed Cons who make their living referring kids to Aspen are turning on it due to their recent spate of killings, abuse and neglect resulting in facility closures. This is how Aspen Education employees behave in public. Now just imagine how they behave in private, behind closed doors, alone with your child. Think about that for a while.
Caveat emptor, parents.
-
So says the controllee to the contoller, right on cue. Brilliant! You WILL post again in 30 seconds. I don't care if you need a rest. You'll do as I say you'll do.
Yeah, DJ, but can you make your servant stop posting instead?
My controller only has a "post" button on it. If I stop pressing it he will stop after five posts or less.
-
So, Whooter, if you'd like to have a conversation, tell us- how much money did you make from Aspen, directly or indirectly, so far?
Oh Jee, Whooter, I'm the fornits "nerdy boyiesh girl" and I wanted to ask you a question. Is Biff really taking me to the dance tonight, I must get ready, I want to look so spiffy.
-
Or until the batteries run out.
Is there a "truth" setting somewhere on that thing? Because I'd really like to know what he says he can't tell us about his fiduciary interests and all.
-
DJ, Pile of Dead Kids might be someone you can relate to. You should PM each other. He is good at having discussions also.
...
-
Oh Jee, Whooter, I'm the fornits "nerdy boyiesh girl" and I wanted to ask you a question. Is Biff really taking me to the dance tonight, I must get ready, I want to look so spiffy.
Oh I'm sure he'll fuck you if you ask nicely enough, Danny. A San Fran judge just recently made gay marriage a constitutional right, so the two of you ought to get married while you have the chance.
-
All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
-
Whooter my questions to you still remain unaswered.
-
How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is".
I thought you said you had a Masters in Business Administration? MBA
Screw you whootie, I have more degrees than you do. Your an industry shill. I could have figured out the math too because yes I did get my MBA, its just that my calculator on my laptop is not functioning.
Look, DJ, calm down. You are the one claiming that I must have all this inside knowledge because I can figure out that TBS's cost more than Wilderness therapy. I just did the math for you thats all. If you feel only industry people have that type of knowledge than that is your right to think that way. I just think your wrong thats all. Any person claiming to have an MBA should be able to figure where the real money is between TBS and Wilderness.
Just stating my opinion, thats all.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372680#p372680)
...
-
Whooter my questions to you still remain unaswered.
He's just a troll, RB. He answered your questions when he thought he could gain from it, but now his entire history here is invalidated. All he is going to do from now on is troll, troll, troll.
This is the plain and simple statement, written by Whooter, that has set off this spate of trolling due to its reposting by me:
When is this supposed to take place?
Well the announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.
...
How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as Tipping
Whooter made this statement several years ago and subsequently auctioned off his account, rendering him unable to change this information he wants nobody to see. The fact is that he said it of his own volition and was bragging about it.
The problem is that if everyone knows about this fiduciary duty, Whooter feels like five years of his time here posing as "just a regular parent" have been wasted, and indeed they are.
When I started quoting this post and linking to it, Whooter got increasingly more upset and now spends all day every day being my personal troll in various guises: Whooter, SUCK IT, Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin, John McCain, et al.
My purpose in quoting this damning statement is twofold: one, it exposes Whooter for who and what he really is, a figure whose income is derived from Aspen Education; and two, to draw him out of his carefully crafted image to expose him for the desperate Aspen Education troll he is. Both objectives are complete.
Watch as Whooter logs in and out with his various sockpuppets, accusing me of abusing and raping children because he has been definitively linked to Aspen Education and its systemic abuse problems. It's interesting to note also that Whooter accuses me of the very things that Aspen Education programs have been being shut down for recently. He is simply trying to project qualities onto me that have been legally proven against Aspen Education.
Industry people always squeal the loudest when they've been stuck in the wallet. Look at this piggy squeal.
This is a desperate troll, folks. Whooter/SUCK IT/et al is an exemplar of the people to whom you might have entrusted your child's welfare at Aspen Education programs. If their marketing people behave this way, doesn't that provide a window into their corporate culture and strategy, as Ed Con Tom Croake recently exposed on his FamilyLights website? Even Ed Cons who make their living referring kids to Aspen are turning on it due to their recent spate of killings, abuse and neglect resulting in facility closures. This is how Aspen Education employees behave in public. Now just imagine how they behave in private, behind closed doors, alone with your child. Think about that for a while.
Caveat emptor, parents.
-
How was I suppose to figure out that Wilderness programs run an average of 2 weeks and cost $6,000 and TBS’s run an average of 12 – 16 months and cost 70,000 – to -$100,000. If I knew that, then yeah I could agree that the TBS was "where the real money is".
I thought you said you had a Masters in Business Administration? MBA
Screw you whootie, I have more degrees than you do. Your an industry shill. I could have figured out the math too because yes I did get my MBA, its just that my calculator on my laptop is not functioning.
Look, DJ, calm down. You are the one claiming that I must have all this inside knowledge because I can figure out that TBS's cost more than Wilderness therapy. I just did the math for you thats all. If you feel only industry people have that type of knowledge than that is your right to think that way. I just think your wrong thats all. Any person claiming to have an MBA should be able to figure where the real money is between TBS and Wilderness.
Just stating my opinion, thats all.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372680#p372680)
...
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Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
...
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All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
...
sting!!!! wont go away. lol
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Butt-hurt troll, Whooter, gets caught in another whopper while holding it out as "proof" I "fabricated" it. Links and all...
Whoops, DJ, caught in another lie. DJ's MO is falsifying posts to make it seem like I wrote them. You should ask him to show you a post where Ottawa5 and I were speaking together... hint (it doesnt exist). I can show you that one later.
Whooter he does bring a good point regarding your post concerning a son and not a daughter. Can you explain this discrepancy?
Well take a look at your friend DJ’s post and see what is written:
Link to DJ's post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372593)
Then compare it to this post on an ASR chat board (Look at the 7th post)... Ha,Ha,Ha caught red handed again:
Link to ASR chat board (http://http://www.trulia.com/schools/MA-Cummington/Academy_At_Swift_River/)
This is what your buddy Dysfunction Junction tries to pass along as proof. He deals with deception and he has a burning need to try to discredit those who disagree with him. The site was his link originally and he started referring to them and even started a thread based on them. But when I referenced them he claims they were written by me.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372775#p372775)
Lol, this is a good one, Whooter.
Whooter's OP, Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:09 am (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372587).
I know it's hard to choose a school or program when your kid is in a crisis and you don't see any other alternative. You kind of have to go on your gut feeling, after doing all the checking and questioning possible. ASR wasn't perfect, but I believe they save our son's life. Overall we were pleased, ... Read more but there were some things we wish had gone smoother. He got his education, lots of therapy, both private and group, learned how to get along with others and had many experiences unique to ASR. Plus there were many recreational and other non-curricular activities. He clearly needed to be there for at least 14 months. The staff was terrific and communication mostly good. We were very involved in the therapuetic proces.
...
My response, Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:18 am. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372593)
Then WhooterEDITS THE POST: Last edited by Whooter on Fri Aug 06, 2010 11:45 am, edited 2 times in total. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372587)
Then goes on to say I "fabricated" his quote. This guy is greasy lying weasel, but hey, all you have to do is look at the OP's and everyone can see exactly who's lying and who isn't.
Nice try, douche. Got any more you'd like me to address?
Whooter posts at 10:09, I quote it and link to it at 10:18 then Whooter edits it twice by 11:45 and starts claiming I "fabricated" it. You can't make it up, folks!
Oh, and this too:
This is the plain and simple statement, written by Whooter, that has set off this spate of trolling due to its reposting by me:
When is this supposed to take place?
Well the announcement takes place after the lawyers sign off on the deal, but they usually wait until the transfer is ready to take place.
The legal transfer typically takes place at the beginning of the new quarter (or fiscal year).
So based on this I would expect the announcement would come at anytime and the transfer could occur on Tuesday October 1, 2007 or early January 2008.
...
How is it that you are in a position to have knowledge about the acquisition of HLA?
I apologize for being vague, I have a fiduciary duty which prevents me from speaking in any specific terms in this area and can only comment on information which is first made public by either party involved, this could be misconstrued as Tipping
Whooter made this statement several years ago and subsequently auctioned off his account, rendering him unable to change this information he wants nobody to see. The fact is that he said it of his own volition and was bragging about it.
The problem is that if everyone knows about this fiduciary duty, Whooter feels like five years of his time here posing as "just a regular parent" have been wasted, and indeed they are.
When I started quoting this post and linking to it, Whooter got increasingly more upset and now spends all day every day being my personal troll in various guises: Whooter, SUCK IT, Mitt Romney, Sarah Palin, John McCain, et al.
My purpose in quoting this damning statement is twofold: one, it exposes Whooter for who and what he really is, a figure whose income is derived from Aspen Education; and two, to draw him out of his carefully crafted image to expose him for the desperate Aspen Education troll he is. Both objectives are complete.
Watch as Whooter logs in and out with his various sockpuppets, accusing me of abusing and raping children because he has been definitively linked to Aspen Education and its systemic abuse problems. It's interesting to note also that Whooter accuses me of the very things that Aspen Education programs have been being shut down for recently. He is simply trying to project qualities onto me that have been legally proven against Aspen Education.
Industry people always squeal the loudest when they've been stuck in the wallet. Look at this piggy squeal.
This is a desperate troll, folks. Whooter/SUCK IT/et al is an exemplar of the people to whom you might have entrusted your child's welfare at Aspen Education programs. If their marketing people behave this way, doesn't that provide a window into their corporate culture and strategy, as Ed Con Tom Croake recently exposed on his FamilyLights website? Even Ed Cons who make their living referring kids to Aspen are turning on it due to their recent spate of killings, abuse and neglect resulting in facility closures. This is how Aspen Education employees behave in public. Now just imagine how they behave in private, behind closed doors, alone with your child. Think about that for a while.
Caveat emptor, parents.
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He's just a troll, RB. He answered your questions when he thought he could gain from it, but now his entire history here is invalidated. All he is going to do from now on is troll, troll, troll.
That's unfortunate. I honestly thought he might be willing to have a real conversation this time. I thought this time he might actually be willing to focus on the topic and discover the truth. I guess I was wrong, he just wants to play games.
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Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is? I dont think I ever had a post with this person.
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That's unfortunate. I honestly thought he might be willing to have a real conversation this time. I thought this time he might actually be willing to focus on the topic and discover the truth. I guess I was wrong, he just wants to play games.
Dont be too upset. I had to deal with the same thing myself. He grabs hold of an idea to discredit someone and he cant focus on anything else. He wont have a discussion, its all just a game to him. He will create threads dedicated to a single poster and then just work on discrediting that person. It is very odd behavior, but this is the way DJ has been since he started posting here.
He is a little upset now because he is getting just a small taste of his own medicine. But once he settles in, stops attacking people and starts to contribute it will settle down. Just give it a little time.
...
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Classic Whooter from back in the day. After five years all he can say is "you changed my posts!" which was explained a loooong time ago. He was a whiny lying titty-baby back then and still is now.
On 2006-01-25 13:15:00, Short Bus wrote:
"What's this cat all about Steve? Have I missed anything juicy during my few days off? "
Yo, Short Bus. This guy is as dumb as a bag of rocks.
He keeps insisting that I can change his username, "pin him" falsely by tagging his posts with the wrong username, etc. I've explained at least FIVE TIMES that I HAVE NO POWER TO ASSIGN ANY PROPERTIES TO OR FROM ANY USER ACCOUNT BECAUSE I HAVE NO STATUS ON THIS BOARD. But he just keeps prattling on like a whiny little baby insisting I changed his account, WHICH I CANNOT DO.
I even quoted his post from earlier in the day signed "Joe Goebbels," showed it to him and explained that he, not I, used that name. Again he says I'm lying and I changed his account, WHICH I CANNOT DO BECAUSE I HAVE NO STATUS ON THIS BOARD.
If you think RB annoys you, have a read of this dope. On and on with same BS never seeming to grasp that I CANNOT CHANGE ANY USER INFORMATION BECAUSE I HAVE NO STATUS ON THIS BOARD.
Ginger already told him that she did it by accident, but yet he carries on with his little fantasy that I did, whining all the while about how it's a "witch hunt."
Anyway, what's up with you? How was the city the other night?
Ha, ha, ha. Same game...different game...
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That's unfortunate. I honestly thought he might be willing to have a real conversation this time. I thought this time he might actually be willing to focus on the topic and discover the truth. I guess I was wrong, he just wants to play games.
Dont be too upset. I had to deal with the same thing myself. He grabs hold of an idea to discredit someone and he cant focus on anything else. He wont have a discussion, its all just a game to him. He will create threads dedicated to a single poster and then just work on discrediting that person. It is very odd behavior, but this is the way DJ has been since he started posting here.
He is a little upset now because he is getting just a small taste of his own medicine. But once he settles in, stops attacking people and starts to contribute it will settle down. Just give it a little time.
...
You seem bent on taking comments out of context. My comment was directed towards you Whooter, not DJ. You are merely describing yourself. I sought an honest and civil dialouge with you but you're more interested in flooding the boards and playing games.
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Whooter has been trolling here a loooong time, RB.
Ginger confirms it below:
On 2006-02-15 12:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
So, it was "TheWHO" who kept trolling this thread... good to know."
Yup! [/size]Sort of gives lie to the notion that ASR, SUWS and Carlbrook are any different that WWASP, doesn't it?God did not reward men for being honest, generous and brave, but for the act of faith. Without faith, all the so-called virtues were sins. and the men who practiced these virtues, without faith, deserved to suffer eternal pain.
--
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Whooter has been trolling here a loooong time, RB.
Ginger confirms it below:
On 2006-02-15 12:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
So, it was "TheWHO" who kept trolling this thread... good to know."
Yup! [/size]Sort of gives lie to the notion that ASR, SUWS and Carlbrook are any different that WWASP, doesn't it?God did not reward men for being honest, generous and brave, but for the act of faith. Without faith, all the so-called virtues were sins. and the men who practiced these virtues, without faith, deserved to suffer eternal pain.
--
Whoops... 2006-02-15
The dates always seem to trip you up, DJ. We are presently in 2010. That post was 4 years ago and in a different thread...... lol.
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DJ, anyone can do what you do. We just dont chose to do it. You have been trolling here on fornits for years and finally you are getting a taste of your own. We forced you to log in and you chose not to partake in any conversations, now look at the crap that you post all day. You claim to have all this education yet you cannot have a civil conversation about the industry you claimed to have worked in (on any level except to discredit other posters).
Fact One: This post shows Dysfunction Junction worked at Daytop at one time. It also shows that he had a felony conviction and prison sentance.
Fact Two: He no longer works in the TBS field. According to him he got disillusioned with the industry. I suspect he isn't allowed to be employed by them with a previous felony conviction as most TBS's do background checks for most of their employees usually.
I'll bust your fucking teeth down your throat, choke you until you nearly fall unconscious, then give you a wake-up kick to the temple and send you on your merry way. Your pain, suffering and disfigurement wouldn't matter .......
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RkdZDf1 ... re=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RkdZDf1jLY&feature=related)
Look, DJ, you dont need to threaten everyone that disagrees with you. I think we all know that if it were not for your criminal past that you would still be working in the TT industry instead of posting here on fornits to establish a resume that doesnt exist in real life. Maybe when you took this anger of yours out on the kids is why HLA decide to release you. I believe you have a past post where you admitted this unless you edited it out all ready.
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Dig this up instead.
(http://http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/d/d1/Babycase2.jpg)
.........................
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Whoops! Whooter is caught blatantly altering (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=690#p372270) the very post he claims I altered. Ursus even pinched you for it and linked back to his own OP that you jacked up. Oh, you're a fucking genius, Whooter. Quit while you're behind, crybaby.
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Good Catch, Ursus. Links are not his strength it appears.
ouch!!! lol
Actually, Whooter, my post was in response to your posting of various falacious Dysfunction Junction posts which apparently are the sole creation of your imagination. Moreover, my original quote (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=660#p372079), before you altered it, read as follows:
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
PLUS... Your original reply to my post, before you altered it, read as follows:
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Sure, just like everyone else.
gg
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FINALLY we're getting to some truth about Whooter's family. He now admits he had a SON at ASR and not a daughter. This is consistent with John Reuben's family history as well. Hmmmm...
I know it's hard to choose a school or program when your kid is in a crisis and you don't see any other alternative. You kind of have to go on your gut feeling, after doing all the checking and questioning possible. ASR wasn't perfect, but I believe they save our son's life. Overall we were pleased, ... Read more but there were some things we wish had gone smoother. He got his education, lots of therapy, both private and group, learned how to get along with others and had many experiences unique to ASR. Plus there were many recreational and other non-curricular activities. He clearly needed to be there for at least 14 months. The staff was terrific and communication mostly good. We were very involved in the therapuetic process
...
Link to original, unedited post. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=30897#p372587) Quoted For Truth.
We're learning a lot about Whooter the last couple of days...Jail time...Arrests...Drug use...DOESN'T actually have a daughter, but rather a SON who went to ASR.
I think this shines a light on his obsession with HLA as well. John Reuben had two sons in programs; one in ASR and one in HLA. That context makes a bit more sense in regard to Whooter now that he has admitted he had a son that went to ASR. Maybe the OP and RobertBruce are right and Whooter is actually John Reuben of STICC.
:o
ss
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OK, link to Chicago post.
TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/posting.php?mode=quote&f=9&p=245433)
Here, just a few hours ago, you were denying it and demanding proof:
If you have convinced yourself then you must be able to produce this time frame via links to posts. Why not ask Psy for a favor... he can check the ip address from the posts I made during the time you said I was in Chicago. If it shows those posts were coming from Chicago then that is fairly solid evidence.
Well, how about your OWN WORDS as proof? You admitted it before, and denied it after. Very shabby.
Toss up the links which helped you make this connection or is this just a story line for you?
Nope, not a story. YOUR story. Told in your words in the above link.
Was there a conference a month before you posted you were in Chicago a month prior? You betcha!
Sierra Tucson, Tucson, AZ, 800-842-4487, and Rosecrance Health Network, Rockford, IL, 815-391-1000, announced they would co-sponsor the 2006 Chicago Professional Development Series on November 17 and December 15, Hard k Hotel in Chicago. The speakers, Kaveh Zamanian, PhD, and Wendy Lader, MEd, PhD, will discuss issues regarding addictions and mental health.
Link to conference bulletin (http://http://www.strugglingteens.com/artman/publish/article_5490.shtml)
What everyone really wants to know is WHY DID YOU LIE ABOUT YOUR TRIP TO CHICAGO, BEING UNINVOLVED IN THE TTI AND YOUR CRIMINAL RECORD?
;;
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Again, it's not an email, it's a PM from you to me. In the PM, you offered the email address to contact you outside of fornits. I guess you're not a good reader. And I'm sure you have many email addresses, but you should have given me one that wasn't linked to STICC's admin account and John Reuben if you didn't want people to know you are him.
Someone was pulling your leg.
Care to answer the question about your extensive criminal history? I see you skipped that.
It is well documented here about my protesting in Boston and in Michigan. All in College and younger. I was a little wild as a kid.
Go ahead and have Psy list all of your email addresses you have used here. It's your job to do that, not mine. If you're trying to prove something, go ahead and prove it. But it won't change history. You did provide that email address to me over two years ago and you can't try to deny it now.
No ,I only use one email address here on fornits, I dont need to prove anything to myself or anyone else actually.
ee
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Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
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All those years of you doing this to me, I have to admit it is fun!!! lol
Well lets take a look at what is real or not. Hmmmm...
Someone challenged your education history and you got pissed off and started editing and updating your history.
After you edited your posts you wrote this: which is your education history:
DJ, On June 30, 2010 you posted this:
June 30 post on DJ's education (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=368264#p368264)
A few hours before you posted the above you went and cleaned up your history going back 5 years. Here is an example. Notice the edit stamp at the bottom says:
June 30, 2010
DJ cleaned up all his history going back 5 years (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=11098&p=121144&hilit=msw#p121144)
Another one! Oh No! DJ was busy cleaning. (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=91225#p91225)
Why would you go back 5 years and start editing all your education history just before you posted an update if you have been honest all along?
Just asking. Why do you accuse others of lying when you deceive the posters here on fornits for 5 years about yourself and education history.
Do you want to tell everyone why you left the industry? Were you truthful about that too? Did you have a change of heart or were you forced out because of background checks? Do you want to take a look at that next?
See anyone can play the same game you do, DJ. You have just spent years fabricating an image under the user name Dysfunction junction.
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sting!!!! wont go away. lol
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I wonder if I should complain about your spamming and flooding the boards. Clearly you cannot use your, "but he's doing it too" excuse in regards to me.
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Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Good Catch, Ursus. Links are not his strength it appears.
ouch!!! lol
Actually, Whooter, my post was in response to your posting of various falacious Dysfunction Junction posts which apparently are the sole creation of your imagination. Moreover, my original quote (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=29342&start=660#p372079), before you altered it, read as follows:
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
PLUS... Your original reply to my post, before you altered it, read as follows:
Whooter, do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Sure[/size], just like everyone else.
Here Whooter admits to cutting/pasting posts in order to make people look bad, but only after Ursus called him on it and posted links to where Whooter hacked up this post. A moment of honesty. How refreshing.
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Are you ashamed of this. DJ? Why not explain why you lied?
Uh, yeah, like there's no industry types on Fornits. Wait a sec...one of them is you, Mr. Aspen Fiduciary!
Remember when you claimed to have access to RB's treatment records via an HLA staff member on this board? Or your true love, Ottawa5 whose stated goal was to open her "own program along the lines of CEDU"?
Your explanation is laughable, troll boy :rofl: .
….. do you have LINKS to the original posts for all this material? Or are you just making this up as you go along?
Great catch, Ursus, you are on to his MO too I see. I dont even know who Ottawa5 is. I did a search on ottawa5 and it turns out that I never had any contact with this poster, not even one post! DJ is starting to lose it I think. Why does he continue to make this stuff up? What is the point? No wonder he didnt provide links its all just fabricated.
Does anyone even know who this Ottawa5 poster is?
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Hi, SUCK IT. :roflmao:
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Whooter's OP, Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:09 am (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=372593#p372587).
I know it's hard to choose a school or program when your kid is in a crisis and you don't see any other alternative. You kind of have to go on your gut feeling, after doing all the checking and questioning possible. ASR wasn't perfect, but I believe they save our son's life. Overall we were pleased, ... Read more but there were some things we wish had gone smoother. He got his education, lots of therapy, both private and group, learned how to get along with others and had many experiences unique to ASR. Plus there were many recreational and other non-curricular activities. He clearly needed to be there for at least 14 months. The staff was terrific and communication mostly good. We were very involved in the therapuetic proces.
...
I forgot about that. That was when he agreed to let Ginger link up his anon posts with his The Who account, right?
Son or daughter Whooter? Which one?
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Get him! Call his ass out!!
Let's put an end to this shit once and for all!!!!
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That's unfortunate. I honestly thought he might be willing to have a real conversation this time. I thought this time he might actually be willing to focus on the topic and discover the truth. I guess I was wrong, he just wants to play games.
Dont be too upset. I had to deal with the same thing myself. He grabs hold of an idea to discredit someone and he cant focus on anything else. He wont have a discussion, its all just a game to him. He will create threads dedicated to a single poster and then just work on discrediting that person. It is very odd behavior, but this is the way DJ has been since he started posting here.
He is a little upset now because he is getting just a small taste of his own medicine. But once he settles in, stops attacking people and starts to contribute it will settle down. Just give it a little time.
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You seem bent on taking comments out of context. My comment was directed towards you Whooter, not DJ. You are merely describing yourself. I sought an honest and civil dialouge with you but you're more interested in flooding the boards and playing games.
Completely predictable and typical tactic for him. He knows damn well what you were saying and Who it was directed towards.
Whooter posts = nothing but SPIN.
Besides....he needs to protect his "fiduciary interest" here, remember?
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when people are angry at other people, they can make things up. max was angry at his dad for sending him to a school that robbed him of his youth and closure with his mother. It is equally as likely that he was directing his anger towards his dad and making things up, as it is that his dad was actually involved in his mother's death.
Does anyone know how long Max was away from HLA for his mothers funeral? Was he forced to go?
3 Days maybe 4 I dont remember. A family member an aunt I think picked him up and went back with him. He wasnt forced to go, he was glad to get a break from that place.
Well, here's the conclusive proof that TheWho is either John Reuben or the most shameless liar of all time on Fornits, or both.
Please explain to us, Whooter, how you are privy to the family information. We're all ears.
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when people are angry at other people, they can make things up. max was angry at his dad for sending him to a school that robbed him of his youth and closure with his mother. It is equally as likely that he was directing his anger towards his dad and making things up, as it is that his dad was actually involved in his mother's death.
Does anyone know how long Max was away from HLA for his mothers funeral? Was he forced to go?
3 Days maybe 4 I dont remember. A family member an aunt I think picked him up and went back with him. He wasnt forced to go, he was glad to get a break from that place.
Well, here's the conclusive proof that TheWho is either John Reuben or the most shameless liar of all time on Fornits, or both.
Please explain to us, Whooter, how you are privy to the family information. We're all ears.
Here's more of WHooter's detailed, unpublished information regarding Mike Reuben:
Prior to ASR the father had Mike seen by a specialist in the field of addiction and he was referred to a Counselor who worked one on one with him. As his grades continued to slip and his relationship with drugs became stronger he was recommended to ASR by The Director of Pediatrics at Children’s Hospital in Boston.
ASR was able to arrest his behavior, teach him to cope with himself and the problems that life will and has thrown at him and set him on a healthy path. He graduated ASR, attended and graduated from college and continued his interest in Music and a made himself successful in a career in Sales. He continued to struggle throughout his life with his addiction until it finally took his life.
As we all know addiction isn’t something that is cured but is a lifetime challenge and each person attempts to hold it at bay the best he can. The road can be long and arduous and in many instances the road is short as it was for Mike.
Please be respectful of this boys life and struggles and don’t twist his story to make him a tool for your agenda.
How would Whooter know all of this unpublished information?
Whooter = John Reuben
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How would Whooter know all of this unpublished information?
Whooter = John Reuben
NAILED!!!
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How would Whooter know all of this unpublished information?
Whooter = John Reuben
NAILED!!!
Yes, he is. I knew linking up his posts would reveal this information. Just had to sort through it because the linked posts don't show in a search.
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when people are angry at other people, they can make things up. max was angry at his dad for sending him to a school that robbed him of his youth and closure with his mother. It is equally as likely that he was directing his anger towards his dad and making things up, as it is that his dad was actually involved in his mother's death.
Does anyone know how long Max was away from HLA for his mothers funeral? Was he forced to go?
3 Days maybe 4 I dont remember. A family member an aunt I think picked him up and went back with him. He wasnt forced to go, he was glad to get a break from that place.
Well, here's the conclusive proof that TheWho is either John Reuben or the most shameless liar of all time on Fornits, or both.
Please explain to us, Whooter, how you are privy to the family information. We're all ears.
Here's more of WHooter's detailed, unpublished information regarding Mike Reuben:
Prior to ASR the father had Mike seen by a specialist in the field of addiction and he was referred to a Counselor who worked one on one with him. As his grades continued to slip and his relationship with drugs became stronger he was recommended to ASR by The Director of Pediatrics at Children’s Hospital in Boston.
ASR was able to arrest his behavior, teach him to cope with himself and the problems that life will and has thrown at him and set him on a healthy path. He graduated ASR, attended and graduated from college and continued his interest in Music and a made himself successful in a career in Sales. He continued to struggle throughout his life with his addiction until it finally took his life.
As we all know addiction isn’t something that is cured but is a lifetime challenge and each person attempts to hold it at bay the best he can. The road can be long and arduous and in many instances the road is short as it was for Mike.
Please be respectful of this boys life and struggles and don’t twist his story to make him a tool for your agenda.
How would Whooter know all of this unpublished information?
Whooter = John Reuben
Pinched. Definitivey.
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Whooter has told on himself.
when people are angry at other people, they can make things up. max was angry at his dad for sending him to a school that robbed him of his youth and closure with his mother. It is equally as likely that he was directing his anger towards his dad and making things up, as it is that his dad was actually involved in his mother's death.
Does anyone know how long Max was away from HLA for his mothers funeral? Was he forced to go?
3 Days maybe 4 I dont remember. A family member an aunt I think picked him up and went back with him. He wasnt forced to go, he was glad to get a break from that place.
Well, here's the conclusive proof that TheWho is either John Reuben or the most shameless liar of all time on Fornits, or both.
Please explain to us, Whooter, how you are privy to the family information. We're all ears.
Here's more of WHooter's detailed, unpublished information regarding Mike Reuben:
Prior to ASR the father had Mike seen by a specialist in the field of addiction and he was referred to a Counselor who worked one on one with him. As his grades continued to slip and his relationship with drugs became stronger he was recommended to ASR by The Director of Pediatrics at Children’s Hospital in Boston.
ASR was able to arrest his behavior, teach him to cope with himself and the problems that life will and has thrown at him and set him on a healthy path. He graduated ASR, attended and graduated from college and continued his interest in Music and a made himself successful in a career in Sales. He continued to struggle throughout his life with his addiction until it finally took his life.
As we all know addiction isn’t something that is cured but is a lifetime challenge and each person attempts to hold it at bay the best he can. The road can be long and arduous and in many instances the road is short as it was for Mike.
Please be respectful of this boys life and struggles and don’t twist his story to make him a tool for your agenda.
How would Whooter know all of this unpublished information?
Hmmmm..... Getting more interesting as we go...
Funny. I think most people know and have used the word "junkie" before. I had never seen it spelled "junky" (when referring to a "junkie") before until today.
If you tie a junky to his bed for a couple of days to get him past the physical addiction is it considered cruel? If he comes thru it and says “Thank you man you saved my life, I owe you big time, my friend” is that worth it to both of you? Should you go to jail for restraining someone? Kidnapping? Torture?
That word appears nowhere else on this forum except that post. But, it does appear elsewhere on the 'net...
Live Music Junky
...on John Reuben's MySpace page.
Also from John Reuben's MySpace page (from 2007, before Mike died, but after his wife, Lena, died):
John's Blurbs
About me:
I am 48, father of two older boys, runner, and live music lover. My tastes range mostly from blues to classic rock, to alternative. Recent shows: Everclear Peter Yorn Chicago Steely Dan Widespread Panic Eric Clapton Allman Brothers Sarah Borges Entrain Jeff Pitchell I see about 30-40 shows a year.
Who I'd like to meet:
Hoping to meet someone I can share some time with and in particular, see sdome music with this summer.
"Who" else on Fornits is a "Live Music Junky" that always talks about how many shows he sees?
I also noticed that he didn't say he is a "widower," he says he is "divorced." Pretty creepy considering that other posters here who went to HLA with Max said that Max "blamed his father for his mother's death."
Children: I don't want kids
Yeah, no shit. I think we knew that already.
Hometown: Philadelphia
"Who" else on Fornits is from Philly...?
I spent so much time sleeping in the streets around the spectrum in Philadelphia waiting for the ticket offices to open up that the homeless and I started to recognize and nod to each other. Ticket-tron was just getting started and they were only given a limited number of tickets to sell, so the only guarantee was the ticket office. Besides many other things I was a concert junkie.
I wont tell you my year of birth. But the concert was in the winter 1973, December I think, and it was at the Spectrum in Philadelphia. It was the Quadrophenia tour.
He does it "to get something positive out of this tragedy and let people know this happens in fortunate and unfortunate families, in Malden, Somerville, Sudbury and Los Angeles," he said.
Malden, eh? I wonder "Who" else has posted from Malden here on Fornits...?
24.41.10.XXX [ 1197 Posts ] [ Look up IP address ]
Users posting from this IP address
TheWho [ 1197 Posts ] Search
Guest [ 116 Posts ] Search
Other IP addresses this user has posted from
24.41.82.XXX [ 1616 Posts ] [ Look up IP address ]
IP Address Country Region City Latitude/Longitude ZIP Code Time Zone
24.41.10.XXX UNITED STATES MASSACHUSETTS MALDEN 42.4305-71.0574 02148 -05:00
Net Speed ISP Domain
DSL EARTHLINK INC EARTHLINK.NET
IDD Code Area Code Weather Station
1 781 USMA0228 - MALDEN
Then we have Whooter posting from IP address (thanks for giving Psy permission to post these IP's Whooter. It has been a big help to me!) 24.41.82.XXX.
And where does our handy little IP Locator put this IP address? "Swampscott, MA."
Who might Whooter know in Swampscott, I wonder...?
Catherine Reuben! (http://http://maps.google.com/maps/place?rlz=1T4GGLG_enUS312US312&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=SWAMPSCOTT+%22reuben%22&fb=1&gl=us&hq=reuben&hnear=Swampscott,+MA&cid=526551623140969011)
Just "coincidences" I suppose...?
Whooter, or John, whichever you prefer, you are the biggest fucking phony liar I have ever had the displeasure to become acquainted with.
Boy, I guess that MCSE and research PhD did come in handy after all...
It has been fun, douche, but the game is over. You've been outed for all eternity.
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He (Whooter) knows all the insider information that you wish you knew.
And all he had to do to get that information is become a child abusing criminal. Slavery was once legal too, doesn't make it right.
Lol. Now he's a "child abusing criminal" too? So just because he works with programs he's a child abuser? Sure, that makes a lot of sense now, doesn't it? Whooter has stated before that he doesn't refer to any "second rate" programs. He uses only the best of the best. Sometimes I wonder how your tiny minds just don't collapse on themselves under the weight of a thought. Oh yeah, that's right, you don't have any thoughts. You just repeat what everyone else is saying.
Very revealing commentary, eh?
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Whooter finally admits his whole story here is straight cock-and-bull nonsense. Here he admits to having his SON sent to Second Nature Wilderness: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&start=15#p382352)
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
Face it.....you got busted buddy boy.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I admit that, Anne, but read through the thread and see what they did to this woman "worried Anne" and calling her son gay and pretending to be survivors with her son.
I dont see it as being wrong at all. I feel sorry for the woman. I would probably do it again if the situation warranted.
...
Finally forced to admit his whole story here is bullshit. Priceless.
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Yup, but he says it was for a good reason....to defend this poor woman Anne (ironic huh? :seg2: ). But he doesn't explain why he felt he had to change the gender of his child in order to do this.
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Yup, but he says it was for a good reason....to defend this poor woman Anne (ironic huh? :seg2: ). But he doesn't explain why he felt he had to change the gender of his child in order to do this.
Whoa, just checking some of the posters here in the basement. Seems you have fun down here too! I see you found DJ, wasnt sure where he went.
Anne, I know your knee jerk reaction is to run to DJ everytime there was a problem but he cant help you now. He is only a shell and can only live in the past. He spends his days and nights looking at thewho’s 10,000 posts trying to find a smoking gun which will take the focus off of him and justify the years he spent trolling me. I think this sums up your double standard. You hung onto DJ’s coat strings for years and believed every word he said without reading any of the links for yourself. You only saw what you wanted to see. You called everyone a troll who attacked yourself and DJ.
Everytime I would call him on his trolling he cried, for years, that he never guest posted and had only one login name and that everyone else was a liar. How many times did we hear him say this? Oh, poor DJ, people would say.
His famous words were:
“I am not the poster "concerned parent." You seem to want to believe I am, but you are incorrect. I believe you have previously stated that this poster was RobertBruce and also Ajax13. I also have only a single login and have never, ever posted under any other user name. That's a fact. Your uulations don't change anything.”
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=358236#p358236)
For 3 years he ran everytime I suggested we string our guest posts together. I finally got him cornered in August of this year. Boom! Done.
After we strung his posts together it turned out he had over 100 different aliases including “Concerned Parent”, “RobertBruce .”, “TheWho .”. It turned out he lied about his education… no masters, no Phd. He folded like a cheap suit and ran away. He knew he was at the end of his road and I suggested that he change his name, which he finally agreed to, because of all the disgusting gay and child porn posts that he trolled everyone with (and I was beginning to post on the forum). I posted only one or two examples because they are so embarrassing to him and I know that his wife posts here too and didn’t want to humiliate him.
So it seems the anti-program crowd were the ones with the majority of the sock-puppets. Your side of the fence is pretty dirty, Anne, and closed minded to boot.
So now that your DJ has been banished to the Drama section to spend his life spending his days making ties to John Rueben, what are you going to do? Lol
...
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Yup, but he says it was for a good reason....to defend this poor woman Anne (ironic huh? :seg2: ). But he doesn't explain why he felt he had to change the gender of his child in order to do this.
Whoa, just checking some of the posters here in the basement. Seems you have fun down here too! I see you found DJ, wasnt sure where he went.
Anne, I know your knee jerk reaction is to run to DJ everytime there was a problem but he cant help you now. He is only a shell and can only live in the past. He spends his days and nights looking at thewho’s 10,000 posts trying to find a smoking gun which will take the focus off of him and justify the years he spent trolling me. I think this sums up your double standard. You hung onto DJ’s coat strings for years and believed every word he said without reading any of the links for yourself. You only saw what you wanted to see. You called everyone a troll who attacked yourself and DJ.
Everytime I would call him on his trolling he cried, for years, that he never guest posted and had only one login name and that everyone else was a liar. How many times did we hear him say this? Oh, poor DJ, people would say.
His famous words were:
“I am not the poster "concerned parent." You seem to want to believe I am, but you are incorrect. I believe you have previously stated that this poster was RobertBruce and also Ajax13. I also have only a single login and have never, ever posted under any other user name. That's a fact. Your uulations don't change anything.”
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=358236#p358236)
For 3 years he ran everytime I suggested we string our guest posts together. I finally got him cornered in August of this year. Boom! Done.
After we strung his posts together it turned out he had over 100 different aliases including “Concerned Parent”, “RobertBruce .”, “TheWho .”. It turned out he lied about his education… no masters, no Phd. He folded like a cheap suit and ran away. He knew he was at the end of his road and I suggested that he change his name, which he finally agreed to, because of all the disgusting gay and child porn posts that he trolled everyone with (and I was beginning to post on the forum). I posted only one or two examples because they are so embarrassing to him and I know that his wife posts here too and didn’t want to humiliate him.
So it seems the anti-program crowd were the ones with the majority of the sock-puppets. Your side of the fence is pretty dirty, Anne, and closed minded to boot.
So now that your DJ has been banished to the Drama section to spend his life spending his days making ties to John Rueben, what are you going to do? Lol
...
You know exactly what she is going to do. Wake up tomorrow like nothing happened the previous day and troll you some more. You can count on that, more so then our Gov't.
Anne and DJ are so clouded with there program mantra they can't do anything else.
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Yup, but he says it was for a good reason....to defend this poor woman Anne (ironic huh? :seg2: ). But he doesn't explain why he felt he had to change the gender of his child in order to do this.
Whoa, just checking some of the posters here in the basement. Seems you have fun down here too! I see you found DJ, wasnt sure where he went.
Anne, I know your knee jerk reaction is to run to DJ everytime there was a problem but he cant help you now. He is only a shell and can only live in the past. He spends his days and nights looking at thewho’s 10,000 posts trying to find a smoking gun which will take the focus off of him and justify the years he spent trolling me. I think this sums up your double standard. You hung onto DJ’s coat strings for years and believed every word he said without reading any of the links for yourself. You only saw what you wanted to see. You called everyone a troll who attacked yourself and DJ.
Everytime I would call him on his trolling he cried, for years, that he never guest posted and had only one login name and that everyone else was a liar. How many times did we hear him say this? Oh, poor DJ, people would say.
His famous words were:
“I am not the poster "concerned parent." You seem to want to believe I am, but you are incorrect. I believe you have previously stated that this poster was RobertBruce and also Ajax13. I also have only a single login and have never, ever posted under any other user name. That's a fact. Your uulations don't change anything.”
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=358236#p358236)
For 3 years he ran everytime I suggested we string our guest posts together. I finally got him cornered in August of this year. Boom! Done.
After we strung his posts together it turned out he had over 100 different aliases including “Concerned Parent”, “RobertBruce .”, “TheWho .”. It turned out he lied about his education… no masters, no Phd. He folded like a cheap suit and ran away. He knew he was at the end of his road and I suggested that he change his name, which he finally agreed to, because of all the disgusting gay and child porn posts that he trolled everyone with (and I was beginning to post on the forum). I posted only one or two examples because they are so embarrassing to him and I know that his wife posts here too and didn’t want to humiliate him.
So it seems the anti-program crowd were the ones with the majority of the sock-puppets. Your side of the fence is pretty dirty, Anne, and closed minded to boot.
So now that your DJ has been banished to the Drama section to spend his life spending his days making ties to John Rueben, what are you going to do? Lol
...
You know exactly what she is going to do. Wake up tomorrow like nothing happened the previous day and troll you some more. You can count on that, more so then our Gov't.
Anne and DJ are so clouded with there program mantra they can't do anything else.
I think you may be right, and Bruce is starting to run out of people to blackmail and email.
...
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Yup, but he says it was for a good reason....to defend this poor woman Anne (ironic huh? :seg2: ). But he doesn't explain why he felt he had to change the gender of his child in order to do this.
Whoa, just checking some of the posters here in the basement. Seems you have fun down here too! I see you found DJ, wasnt sure where he went.
Anne, I know your knee jerk reaction is to run to DJ everytime there was a problem but he cant help you now. He is only a shell and can only live in the past. He spends his days and nights looking at thewho’s 10,000 posts trying to find a smoking gun which will take the focus off of him and justify the years he spent trolling me. I think this sums up your double standard. You hung onto DJ’s coat strings for years and believed every word he said without reading any of the links for yourself. You only saw what you wanted to see. You called everyone a troll who attacked yourself and DJ.
Everytime I would call him on his trolling he cried, for years, that he never guest posted and had only one login name and that everyone else was a liar. How many times did we hear him say this? Oh, poor DJ, people would say.
His famous words were:
“I am not the poster "concerned parent." You seem to want to believe I am, but you are incorrect. I believe you have previously stated that this poster was RobertBruce and also Ajax13. I also have only a single login and have never, ever posted under any other user name. That's a fact. Your uulations don't change anything.”
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=358236#p358236)
For 3 years he ran everytime I suggested we string our guest posts together. I finally got him cornered in August of this year. Boom! Done.
After we strung his posts together it turned out he had over 100 different aliases including “Concerned Parent”, “RobertBruce .”, “TheWho .”. It turned out he lied about his education… no masters, no Phd. He folded like a cheap suit and ran away. He knew he was at the end of his road and I suggested that he change his name, which he finally agreed to, because of all the disgusting gay and child porn posts that he trolled everyone with (and I was beginning to post on the forum). I posted only one or two examples because they are so embarrassing to him and I know that his wife posts here too and didn’t want to humiliate him.
So it seems the anti-program crowd were the ones with the majority of the sock-puppets. Your side of the fence is pretty dirty, Anne, and closed minded to boot.
So now that your DJ has been banished to the Drama section to spend his life spending his days making ties to John Rueben, what are you going to do? Lol
...
You know exactly what she is going to do. Wake up tomorrow like nothing happened the previous day and troll you some more. You can count on that, more so then our Gov't.
Anne and DJ are so clouded with there program mantra they can't do anything else.
"Anne" is the true sock puppet of Fornits
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Yup, but he says it was for a good reason....to defend this poor woman Anne (ironic huh? :seg2: ). But he doesn't explain why he felt he had to change the gender of his child in order to do this.
Whoa, just checking some of the posters here in the basement. Seems you have fun down here too! I see you found DJ, wasnt sure where he went.
Anne, I know your knee jerk reaction is to run to DJ everytime there was a problem but he cant help you now. He is only a shell and can only live in the past. He spends his days and nights looking at thewho’s 10,000 posts trying to find a smoking gun which will take the focus off of him and justify the years he spent trolling me. I think this sums up your double standard. You hung onto DJ’s coat strings for years and believed every word he said without reading any of the links for yourself. You only saw what you wanted to see. You called everyone a troll who attacked yourself and DJ.
Everytime I would call him on his trolling he cried, for years, that he never guest posted and had only one login name and that everyone else was a liar. How many times did we hear him say this? Oh, poor DJ, people would say.
His famous words were:
“I am not the poster "concerned parent." You seem to want to believe I am, but you are incorrect. I believe you have previously stated that this poster was RobertBruce and also Ajax13. I also have only a single login and have never, ever posted under any other user name. That's a fact. Your uulations don't change anything.”
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=358236#p358236)
For 3 years he ran everytime I suggested we string our guest posts together. I finally got him cornered in August of this year. Boom! Done.
After we strung his posts together it turned out he had over 100 different aliases including “Concerned Parent”, “RobertBruce .”, “TheWho .”. It turned out he lied about his education… no masters, no Phd. He folded like a cheap suit and ran away. He knew he was at the end of his road and I suggested that he change his name, which he finally agreed to, because of all the disgusting gay and child porn posts that he trolled everyone with (and I was beginning to post on the forum). I posted only one or two examples because they are so embarrassing to him and I know that his wife posts here too and didn’t want to humiliate him.
So it seems the anti-program crowd were the ones with the majority of the sock-puppets. Your side of the fence is pretty dirty, Anne, and closed minded to boot.
So now that your DJ has been banished to the Drama section to spend his life spending his days making ties to John Rueben, what are you going to do? Lol
...
You know exactly what she is going to do. Wake up tomorrow like nothing happened the previous day and troll you some more. You can count on that, more so then our Gov't.
Anne and DJ are so clouded with there program mantra they can't do anything else.
I think you may be right, and Bruce is starting to run out of people to blackmail and email.
...
Well, he can always start at the top of the alphabet again. :rofl:
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Yup, but he says it was for a good reason....to defend this poor woman Anne (ironic huh? :seg2: ). But he doesn't explain why he felt he had to change the gender of his child in order to do this.
Whoa, just checking some of the posters here in the basement. Seems you have fun down here too! I see you found DJ, wasnt sure where he went.
Anne, I know your knee jerk reaction is to run to DJ everytime there was a problem but he cant help you now. He is only a shell and can only live in the past. He spends his days and nights looking at thewho’s 10,000 posts trying to find a smoking gun which will take the focus off of him and justify the years he spent trolling me. I think this sums up your double standard. You hung onto DJ’s coat strings for years and believed every word he said without reading any of the links for yourself. You only saw what you wanted to see. You called everyone a troll who attacked yourself and DJ.
Everytime I would call him on his trolling he cried, for years, that he never guest posted and had only one login name and that everyone else was a liar. How many times did we hear him say this? Oh, poor DJ, people would say.
His famous words were:
“I am not the poster "concerned parent." You seem to want to believe I am, but you are incorrect. I believe you have previously stated that this poster was RobertBruce and also Ajax13. I also have only a single login and have never, ever posted under any other user name. That's a fact. Your uulations don't change anything.”
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=358236#p358236)
For 3 years he ran everytime I suggested we string our guest posts together. I finally got him cornered in August of this year. Boom! Done.
After we strung his posts together it turned out he had over 100 different aliases including “Concerned Parent”, “RobertBruce .”, “TheWho .”. It turned out he lied about his education… no masters, no Phd. He folded like a cheap suit and ran away. He knew he was at the end of his road and I suggested that he change his name, which he finally agreed to, because of all the disgusting gay and child porn posts that he trolled everyone with (and I was beginning to post on the forum). I posted only one or two examples because they are so embarrassing to him and I know that his wife posts here too and didn’t want to humiliate him.
So it seems the anti-program crowd were the ones with the majority of the sock-puppets. Your side of the fence is pretty dirty, Anne, and closed minded to boot.
So now that your DJ has been banished to the Drama section to spend his life spending his days making ties to John Rueben, what are you going to do? Lol
...
You know exactly what she is going to do. Wake up tomorrow like nothing happened the previous day and troll you some more. You can count on that, more so then our Gov't.
Anne and DJ are so clouded with there program mantra they can't do anything else.
I think you may be right, and Bruce is starting to run out of people to blackmail and email.
...
Well, he can always start at the top of the alphabet again. :rofl:
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No, I'm still set on holding Whooter accountable for his lies. Only people like Whooter John Reuben try to blackmail people with their lies.
I notice in your long rambling blathering ditrabe against DJ you carefully dodged explaining why you somehow changed the gender of your child in your attempts to defend Anne, while trolling yourself. The fact is you've been outed as a liar once again. Only those posters who can't quite grasp reality due to their limited abilities (Danny) buy into your nonsense. You remain in the negative when it comes to your credibility John. The more time passes the more your online antics will bleed into your day to day life. Keep it up son.
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No, I'm still set on holding Whooter accountable for his lies. Only people like Whooter John Reuben try to blackmail people with their lies.
I notice in your long rambling blathering ditrabe against DJ you carefully dodged explaining why you somehow changed the gender of your child in your attempts to defend Anne, while trolling yourself. The fact is you've been outed as a liar once again. Only those posters who can't quite grasp reality due to their limited abilities (Danny) buy into your nonsense. You remain in the negative when it comes to your credibility John. The more time passes the more your online antics will bleed into your day to day life. Keep it up son.
You are a very sick person Bruce. You surround yourself in drama... i.e. The program was trying to find out who I was... if they did they would try to sue me...... Thewho tried to blackmail me but he was unsuccessful because he had the wrong information........ HLA broke HIPPA laws by releasing infomation on me..... Thewhos real identity is Peter Dunbar I am going to email his family members........ now thewho is Mr. Reuben I am emailing John Reubens family until Whooter does what I tell him to do.... I was kidnapped and held in a gulag as an inmate for 21 days.. oh wait a few months.. oh wait 6 months... oh wait almost a year.... lol... Slow the drama down and just try to have a discussion.
Bruce, you never were able to just contribute and have a conversation with people without having to introduce some sort of drama. You have been destined to live in the troll forum forever I believe.
...
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Bruce, you never were able to just contribute and have a conversation with people without having to introduce some sort of drama. You have been destined to live in the troll forum forever I believe.
:roflmao:
This coming from the guy who is so set on trolling he routinely trolls himself. Face it John, you've never contributed anything of substance on here. You do unintentionally showcase just what kind of sick minds work and support this industry. You're a joke who imagines he's far more important than you ever could be.
So tell me John, even if what you claim is true(it's not), is it somehow any better than how you conduct yourself? Your constant trolling of both yourself and others. Your constant spamming of your useless information? Your constant derailment whenever threads come up with information that you fear i.e. the truth. Your refusal to ever back up any of your claims. Your constant lies.
Stings doesn't it? You can wiggle wiggle but you can't get free. It's for your own good John. I know you hate accountability but it's for your own good.
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So tell me Robert, even if what you claim is true(it's not), is it somehow any better than how you conduct yourself? Your constant trolling of both yourself and others. Your constant spamming of your useless information? Your constant derailment whenever threads come up with information that you fear i.e. the truth. Your refusal to ever back up any of your claims. Your constant lies.
Stings doesn't it? You can wiggle wiggle but you can't get free. It's for your own good John. I know you hate accountability but it's for your own good.
Robert, Month, Day and Year. I have asked you now (5) times. When were you in HLA.
Anne, Froderick, Ursus, Ginger, Psy, Inculcated, SEKTO, and others have had no problem answering this question, what is your problem.
Your a liar and a phony, your just another parent or staff/employee. You have plagiarized everything Jill, Debbie and DJ have done, ya know what, for all we know you are DJ. This would not surprise me and yet it would answer the question. :)
I know Whooter has fun with you, like a Orca has fun with a baby seal but if I was him I would have finished you off long ago.
You are transparent Robert.
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Bruce, you never were able to just contribute and have a conversation with people without having to introduce some sort of drama. You have been destined to live in the troll forum forever I believe.
:roflmao:
This coming from the guy who is so set on trolling he routinely trolls himself. Face it John, you've never contributed anything of substance on here. You do unintentionally showcase just what kind of sick minds work and support this industry. You're a joke who imagines he's far more important than you ever could be.
So tell me John, even if what you claim is true(it's not), is it somehow any better than how you conduct yourself? Your constant trolling of both yourself and others. Your constant spamming of your useless information? Your constant derailment whenever threads come up with information that you fear i.e. the truth. Your refusal to ever back up any of your claims. Your constant lies.
Stings doesn't it? You can wiggle wiggle but you can't get free. It's for your own good John. I know you hate accountability but it's for your own good.
Your friend Dysfunction Junction is no longer here, Bruce. He has changed his name and moved back into the shadows. He has been disgraced and humiliated. You Bruce have not left the drama box and have been here in isolation. You cant survive without someone to troll and DJ to show you the way.
You need to threaten someone. Why not email another Edcon relative, that should hold you over until until you find another host. There is nothing here for you, Bruce, you cannot converse with others without insuring that they agree with you first. Try to contact Anne Bonney, she needs someone now, someone to think for her.
Everyone is watching.
...
...
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Robert, Month, Day and Year. I have asked you now (5) times. When were you in HLA.
Anne, Froderick, Ursus, Ginger, Psy, Inculcated, SEKTO, and others have had no problem answering this question, what is your problem.
Your a liar and a phony, your just another parent or staff/employee. You have plagiarized everything Jill, Debbie and DJ have done, ya know what, for all we know you are DJ. This would not surprise me and yet it would answer the question.
I know Whooter has fun with you, like a Orca has fun with a baby seal but if I was him I would have finished you off long ago.
You are transparent Robert.
The question has already been answered in the appropriate forum Danny. I did so yesterday. DId you somehow miss it son?
You keep claiming I've plagerized other peoples postings, yet you seem to keep coming up empty on any actual instances of this occuring. I think you've been hanging around your man crush Whooter John too long. You're picking up his bad habits.
I'm not DJ, when DJ tricked Whooter yet again into having all of his posts linked up he did so by volunteering to do the same. As you can see none of my postings have been linked to him, or vice versa. Again, ask for help when you need it.
Well I'm glad to know Whooter enjoys it when I embarrass him, expose him, hold him accountable, prove him wrong, beat him in arguments, and shame him at every opporunity. I guess that makes two of us who are having fun each and every time that happens.
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Your friend Dysfunction Junction is no longer here, Bruce. He has changed his name and moved back into the shadows. He has been disgraced and humiliated. You Bruce have not left the drama box and have been here in isolation. You cant survive without someone to troll and DJ to show you the way.
You need to threaten someone. Why not email another Edcon relative, that should hold you over until until you find another host. There is nothing here for you, Bruce, you cannot converse with others without insuring that they agree with you first. Try to contact Anne Bonney, she needs someone now, someone to think for her.
Everyone is watching.
Everyone is watching as I humiliate you and expose your cowardice. We all know this John.
Oh and DJ actually is still here. You just aren't quite bright enough to pick up on which new username he's operating under.
No matter how much you try and deflect John, nothing will change the fact that I can back up my claims about you, while you can't back up any of your lies regarding me. You're a tired old sham who still think he's accomplishing something.
Speaking of which, how is your marathon training going? I meant to tell you, I'm actually going to be in New York for about 5 days around the 7th. Do you feel like grabbing a beer after you quit the race?
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This is what he's trying to avoid, Robert. He finally admitted he's been lying about his made-up daughter for many years and also admits that he's fine with lying as long as it's to advance his agenda of promoting programs. "The ends justify the means" in the warped mind of this congenital liar.
**************************************************************
Whooter finally admits his whole story here is straight cock-and-bull nonsense.
Here he admits to having his SON sent to Second Nature Wilderness: (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28642&start=15#p382352)
Speaking of wilderness programs and sex, it happens all the time... at least when I was there it did. Its not like they handed out condoms so I wouldn't be surprised if some of the girls go home from wilderness with a whole new set of issues brewing inside them. I never saw a wild tribe like orgy until I was in wilderness, and don't think the staff don't join in. Parents have no idea what happens out there, it was insane.
Thanks guest,I knew it wasnt as bad as people were saying here. The kids do have fun on these trips, I kind of thought that.
Your welcome, my son really liked it and would like to become a counselor some day which has motivated him to study harder.
Face it.....you got busted buddy boy.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
I admit that, Anne, but read through the thread and see what they did to this woman "worried Anne" and calling her son gay and pretending to be survivors with her son.
I dont see it as being wrong at all. I feel sorry for the woman. I would probably do it again if the situation warranted.
...
Finally forced to admit his whole story here is bullshit. Priceless.
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:bump:
It's not going to go away, Whooter. You are a dirtbag liar.
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Whooter has told on himself.
when people are angry at other people, they can make things up. max was angry at his dad for sending him to a school that robbed him of his youth and closure with his mother. It is equally as likely that he was directing his anger towards his dad and making things up, as it is that his dad was actually involved in his mother's death.
Does anyone know how long Max was away from HLA for his mothers funeral? Was he forced to go?
3 Days maybe 4 I dont remember. A family member an aunt I think picked him up and went back with him. He wasnt forced to go, he was glad to get a break from that place.
Well, here's the conclusive proof that TheWho is either John Reuben or the most shameless liar of all time on Fornits, or both.
Please explain to us, Whooter, how you are privy to the family information. We're all ears.
Here's more of WHooter's detailed, unpublished information regarding Mike Reuben:
Prior to ASR the father had Mike seen by a specialist in the field of addiction and he was referred to a Counselor who worked one on one with him. As his grades continued to slip and his relationship with drugs became stronger he was recommended to ASR by The Director of Pediatrics at Children’s Hospital in Boston.
ASR was able to arrest his behavior, teach him to cope with himself and the problems that life will and has thrown at him and set him on a healthy path. He graduated ASR, attended and graduated from college and continued his interest in Music and a made himself successful in a career in Sales. He continued to struggle throughout his life with his addiction until it finally took his life.
As we all know addiction isn’t something that is cured but is a lifetime challenge and each person attempts to hold it at bay the best he can. The road can be long and arduous and in many instances the road is short as it was for Mike.
Please be respectful of this boys life and struggles and don’t twist his story to make him a tool for your agenda.
How would Whooter know all of this unpublished information?
Hmmmm..... Getting more interesting as we go...
Funny. I think most people know and have used the word "junkie" before. I had never seen it spelled "junky" (when referring to a "junkie") before until today.
If you tie a junky to his bed for a couple of days to get him past the physical addiction is it considered cruel? If he comes thru it and says “Thank you man you saved my life, I owe you big time, my friend” is that worth it to both of you? Should you go to jail for restraining someone? Kidnapping? Torture?
That word appears nowhere else on this forum except that post. But, it does appear elsewhere on the 'net...
Live Music Junky
...on John Reuben's MySpace page.
Also from John Reuben's MySpace page (from 2007, before Mike died, but after his wife, Lena, died):
John's Blurbs
About me:
I am 48, father of two older boys, runner, and live music lover. My tastes range mostly from blues to classic rock, to alternative. Recent shows: Everclear Peter Yorn Chicago Steely Dan Widespread Panic Eric Clapton Allman Brothers Sarah Borges Entrain Jeff Pitchell I see about 30-40 shows a year.
Who I'd like to meet:
Hoping to meet someone I can share some time with and in particular, see sdome music with this summer.
"Who" else on Fornits is a "Live Music Junky" that always talks about how many shows he sees?
I also noticed that he didn't say he is a "widower," he says he is "divorced." Pretty creepy considering that other posters here who went to HLA with Max said that Max "blamed his father for his mother's death."
Children: I don't want kids
Yeah, no shit. I think we knew that already.
Hometown: Philadelphia
"Who" else on Fornits is from Philly...?
I spent so much time sleeping in the streets around the spectrum in Philadelphia waiting for the ticket offices to open up that the homeless and I started to recognize and nod to each other. Ticket-tron was just getting started and they were only given a limited number of tickets to sell, so the only guarantee was the ticket office. Besides many other things I was a concert junkie.
I wont tell you my year of birth. But the concert was in the winter 1973, December I think, and it was at the Spectrum in Philadelphia. It was the Quadrophenia tour.
He does it "to get something positive out of this tragedy and let people know this happens in fortunate and unfortunate families, in Malden, Somerville, Sudbury and Los Angeles," he said.
Malden, eh? I wonder "Who" else has posted from Malden here on Fornits...?
24.41.10.XXX [ 1197 Posts ] [ Look up IP address ]
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TheWho [ 1197 Posts ] Search
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24.41.82.XXX [ 1616 Posts ] [ Look up IP address ]
IP Address Country Region City Latitude/Longitude ZIP Code Time Zone
24.41.10.XXX UNITED STATES MASSACHUSETTS MALDEN 42.4305-71.0574 02148 -05:00
Net Speed ISP Domain
DSL EARTHLINK INC EARTHLINK.NET
IDD Code Area Code Weather Station
1 781 USMA0228 - MALDEN
Then we have Whooter posting from IP address (thanks for giving Psy permission to post these IP's Whooter. It has been a big help to me!) 24.41.82.XXX.
And where does our handy little IP Locator put this IP address? "Swampscott, MA."
Who might Whooter know in Swampscott, I wonder...?
Catherine Reuben! (http://http://maps.google.com/maps/place?rlz=1T4GGLG_enUS312US312&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=SWAMPSCOTT+%22reuben%22&fb=1&gl=us&hq=reuben&hnear=Swampscott,+MA&cid=526551623140969011)
Just "coincidences" I suppose...?
Whooter, or John, whichever you prefer, you are the biggest fucking phony liar I have ever had the displeasure to become acquainted with.
Boy, I guess that MCSE and research PhD did come in handy after all...
It has been fun, douche, but the game is over. You've been outed for all eternity.
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I get that you don't want the fact that you lied brought up at every turn. No worries John, DJ has pretty much already ensured that every poster on fornits is aware of the fact that you lied repeatedly about your circumstances, and your family. As I've said many times, you have no credibility on here, the more your online antics bleed into your day to day life, the more credibility you'll lose unplugged as well. That being the case I see no reason to discuss the matter further on this thread. You're a liar, you've been exposed. Case closed. I won't soon mention it again during this discussion unless you yourself bring it up. You have my apologies for being repeatative.
I don’t mind discussing the lie and why I guest posted to say I had a son. This is a better thread to have this discussion. If you are honestly interested we can take a look at the post and what led to it.
As far as DJ goes, we all know what happened to him. His name was disgraced and has reduced himself to fabricating posts to get attention. I don’t believe anyone takes him seriously anymore. He is pretty much harmless now. I actually enjoy the "Controlling Troll" posts when they come up because it is a reminder of his final outcome and the demise of dysfunction junction as we knew him.
...
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Whooter has told on himself.
when people are angry at other people, they can make things up. max was angry at his dad for sending him to a school that robbed him of his youth and closure with his mother. It is equally as likely that he was directing his anger towards his dad and making things up, as it is that his dad was actually involved in his mother's death.
Does anyone know how long Max was away from HLA for his mothers funeral? Was he forced to go?
3 Days maybe 4 I dont remember. A family member an aunt I think picked him up and went back with him. He wasnt forced to go, he was glad to get a break from that place.
Well, here's the conclusive proof that TheWho is either John Reuben or the most shameless liar of all time on Fornits, or both.
Please explain to us, Whooter, how you are privy to the family information. We're all ears.
Here's more of WHooter's detailed, unpublished information regarding Mike Reuben:
Prior to ASR the father had Mike seen by a specialist in the field of addiction and he was referred to a Counselor who worked one on one with him. As his grades continued to slip and his relationship with drugs became stronger he was recommended to ASR by The Director of Pediatrics at Children’s Hospital in Boston.
ASR was able to arrest his behavior, teach him to cope with himself and the problems that life will and has thrown at him and set him on a healthy path. He graduated ASR, attended and graduated from college and continued his interest in Music and a made himself successful in a career in Sales. He continued to struggle throughout his life with his addiction until it finally took his life.
As we all know addiction isn’t something that is cured but is a lifetime challenge and each person attempts to hold it at bay the best he can. The road can be long and arduous and in many instances the road is short as it was for Mike.
Please be respectful of this boys life and struggles and don’t twist his story to make him a tool for your agenda.
How would Whooter know all of this unpublished information?
Hmmmm..... Getting more interesting as we go...
Funny. I think most people know and have used the word "junkie" before. I had never seen it spelled "junky" (when referring to a "junkie") before until today.
If you tie a junky to his bed for a couple of days to get him past the physical addiction is it considered cruel? If he comes thru it and says “Thank you man you saved my life, I owe you big time, my friend” is that worth it to both of you? Should you go to jail for restraining someone? Kidnapping? Torture?
That word appears nowhere else on this forum except that post. But, it does appear elsewhere on the 'net...
Live Music Junky
...on John Reuben's MySpace page.
Also from John Reuben's MySpace page (from 2007, before Mike died, but after his wife, Lena, died):
John's Blurbs
About me:
I am 48, father of two older boys, runner, and live music lover. My tastes range mostly from blues to classic rock, to alternative. Recent shows: Everclear Peter Yorn Chicago Steely Dan Widespread Panic Eric Clapton Allman Brothers Sarah Borges Entrain Jeff Pitchell I see about 30-40 shows a year.
Who I'd like to meet:
Hoping to meet someone I can share some time with and in particular, see sdome music with this summer.
"Who" else on Fornits is a "Live Music Junky" that always talks about how many shows he sees?
I also noticed that he didn't say he is a "widower," he says he is "divorced." Pretty creepy considering that other posters here who went to HLA with Max said that Max "blamed his father for his mother's death."
Children: I don't want kids
Yeah, no shit. I think we knew that already.
Hometown: Philadelphia
"Who" else on Fornits is from Philly...?
I spent so much time sleeping in the streets around the spectrum in Philadelphia waiting for the ticket offices to open up that the homeless and I started to recognize and nod to each other. Ticket-tron was just getting started and they were only given a limited number of tickets to sell, so the only guarantee was the ticket office. Besides many other things I was a concert junkie.
I wont tell you my year of birth. But the concert was in the winter 1973, December I think, and it was at the Spectrum in Philadelphia. It was the Quadrophenia tour.
He does it "to get something positive out of this tragedy and let people know this happens in fortunate and unfortunate families, in Malden, Somerville, Sudbury and Los Angeles," he said.
Malden, eh? I wonder "Who" else has posted from Malden here on Fornits...?
24.41.10.XXX [ 1197 Posts ] [ Look up IP address ]
Users posting from this IP address
TheWho [ 1197 Posts ] Search
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24.41.82.XXX [ 1616 Posts ] [ Look up IP address ]
IP Address Country Region City Latitude/Longitude ZIP Code Time Zone
24.41.10.XXX UNITED STATES MASSACHUSETTS MALDEN 42.4305-71.0574 02148 -05:00
Net Speed ISP Domain
DSL EARTHLINK INC EARTHLINK.NET
IDD Code Area Code Weather Station
1 781 USMA0228 - MALDEN
Then we have Whooter posting from IP address (thanks for giving Psy permission to post these IP's Whooter. It has been a big help to me!) 24.41.82.XXX.
And where does our handy little IP Locator put this IP address? "Swampscott, MA."
Who might Whooter know in Swampscott, I wonder...?
Catherine Reuben! (http://http://maps.google.com/maps/place?rlz=1T4GGLG_enUS312US312&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=SWAMPSCOTT+%22reuben%22&fb=1&gl=us&hq=reuben&hnear=Swampscott,+MA&cid=526551623140969011)
Just "coincidences" I suppose...?
Whooter, or John, whichever you prefer, you are the biggest fucking phony liar I have ever had the displeasure to become acquainted with.
Boy, I guess that MCSE and research PhD did come in handy after all...
It has been fun, douche, but the game is over. You've been outed for all eternity.
Hahahahhaha. This guy is the biggest liar ever to disgrace Fornits. Even his "family story" is fiction. He never even HAD a doughter at all and he made up the whole "I have a successful program kid" story out of whole cloth. What kind of person feels the sick need to make something like that up just to promote programs?
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I get that you don't want the fact that you lied brought up at every turn. No worries John, DJ has pretty much already ensured that every poster on fornits is aware of the fact that you lied repeatedly about your circumstances, and your family. As I've said many times, you have no credibility on here, the more your online antics bleed into your day to day life, the more credibility you'll lose unplugged as well. That being the case I see no reason to discuss the matter further on this thread. You're a liar, you've been exposed. Case closed. I won't soon mention it again during this discussion unless you yourself bring it up. You have my apologies for being repeatative.
I don’t mind discussing the lie and why I guest posted to say I had a son. This is a better thread to have this discussion. If you are honestly interested we can take a look at the post and what led to it.
As far as DJ goes, we all know what happened to him. His name was disgraced and has reduced himself to fabricating posts to get attention. I don’t believe anyone takes him seriously anymore. He is pretty much harmless now. I actually enjoy the "Controlling Troll" posts when they come up because it is a reminder of his final outcome and the demise of dysfunction junction as we knew him.
...
DJ exposed and outed you as a liar John. I'm not sure what else you believe happened to him. If you want to create a seperate thread detailing what you believe are his lies/fabrications I'm sure it would make for an interesting conversation. This thread however is dedicated to your lies and fabrications. So then you said you dont mind discussing the llie you told. Discuss away John. Why did you lie about having a daughter?
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Why did you lie about having a daughter?
Actually I have a daughter. The thread in question shows that I was supporting a woman who was being harassed and having her son called gay by fornits members. I guest posted and told the woman that I had a son who did well in the program her son was in to try to even the scales a bit.
...
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If you don't have a son John, how did you now the details about Max Reuben while he was at HLA?
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If you don't have a son John, how did you now the details about Max Reuben while he was at HLA?
I didnt, I was countering the trolls. Look at it from my perspective. I never brought the name John Reuben onto this forum, other people did. They tried to convince the readers that this person was myself. I think you can see the 1,000's of posts dedicated to this topic. I fought back against it, ignored it and sometimes engaged in it myself by writing in defense of this guy. I think you can agree the whole John reuben topic was intended to determine who I was with the intent to hurt not to help. There was nothing nice about it nor was it based on good intentions. I had been through this with multiple other people like Peter Durham or whoever it was.
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The troll was you John. You were having a conversation with yourself, you outed yourself. There was no countering anything. Someone made a comment about Max Reuben which you then responded to by asking a question. You then answered your own question with information about Max.
You can attempt to spin all you like here John, but you arent convincing anyone. You outed yourself, and you're the only one you have to blame.
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The troll was you John. You were having a conversation with yourself, you outed yourself. There was no countering anything. Someone made a comment about Max Reuben which you then responded to by asking a question. You then answered your own question with information about Max.
You can attempt to spin all you like here John, but you arent convincing anyone. You outed yourself, and you're the only one you have to blame.
I think you can agree that I never started any of the Reuben threads or brought that name onto fornits. I spent my time trying to avoid it or counter the charges. I think if you read the intention of the thread you will see that they were attacking this family and I stepped in to even the scales. My overall feeling from the beginning is that it wasn't right to do this to this family here on fornits. I did my best to counter the information. Maybe I made some bad judgments and posted things that I should not have when under the veil of a "Guest" poster.
...
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So now you're claiming you lied about things and pretended to have information to protect a stranger you know nothing about?
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So now you're claiming you lied about things and pretended to have information to protect a stranger you know nothing about?
The same as the woman "Worried Anne", she was a stranger. From my perspective everyone was lying on that thread. People were saying I was this Reuben guy, someone else said his son wasnt allowed to go to his mothers funeral etc. If you go back and read the thread you will see it was intended and written to attack this family. There were no honest intentions there that I could see. I did my best to counter the hatred written towards them.
...
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So your argument is that because you felt other people were lying, it was okay for you to do so as well?
I'm not interesting in hearing about your motivations, or your attempts to spin your actions by claiming you were "adding balance". I'm just looking for a simple yes or no.
Did you lie?
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So your argument is that because you felt other people were lying, it was okay for you to do so as well?
I'm not interesting in hearing about your motivations, or your attempts to spin your actions by claiming you were "adding balance". I'm just looking for a simple yes or no.
Did you lie?
When you are interested in an "open discussion" again let me know.
...
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So your argument is that because you felt other people were lying, it was okay for you to do so as well?
I'm not interesting in hearing about your motivations, or your attempts to spin your actions by claiming you were "adding balance". I'm just looking for a simple yes or no.
Did you lie?
Which has been my budding question to you Robert, are your motivations to slander, deny, fabricate and lie.
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So now you're claiming you lied about things and pretended to have information to protect a stranger you know nothing about?
The same as the woman "Worried Anne", she was a stranger. From my perspective everyone was lying on that thread. People were saying I was this Reuben guy, someone else said his son wasnt allowed to go to his mothers funeral etc. If you go back and read the thread you will see it was intended and written to attack this family. There were no honest intentions there that I could see. I did my best to counter the hatred written towards them.
Doesn't explain how you knew such intimate details of the Reubens. In one small way, I actually feel sorry for you. It's only my opinion, but I do think you are John Reuben and I can't imagine the guilt that you must live with (and do your best to deny) everyday. There's no getting around that putting someone who is "troubled" into a situation where they're going to be humiliated and degraded (LGATs) is going to hurt them and hurt them badly. As I've said to you plenty of times, unless you've been exposed to this "treatment", you'll never be able to understand the devastation it causes to the soul.
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So now you're claiming you lied about things and pretended to have information to protect a stranger you know nothing about?
The same as the woman "Worried Anne", she was a stranger. From my perspective everyone was lying on that thread. People were saying I was this Reuben guy, someone else said his son wasnt allowed to go to his mothers funeral etc. If you go back and read the thread you will see it was intended and written to attack this family. There were no honest intentions there that I could see. I did my best to counter the hatred written towards them.
Doesn't explain how you knew such intimate details of the Reubens. In one small way, I actually feel sorry for you. It's only my opinion, but I do think you are John Reuben and I can't imagine the guilt that you must live with (and do your best to deny) everyday. There's no getting around that putting someone who is "troubled" into a situation where they're going to be humiliated and degraded (LGATs) is going to hurt them and hurt them badly. As I've said to you plenty of times, unless you've been exposed to this "treatment", you'll never be able to understand the devastation it causes to the soul.
I only know as much as I have read here. The rest I filled in just like the rest of you did. How did people know that the child didnt attend his mothers funeral for example? People just made assumptions and filled in the gaps. That is what I did.
I actually agree with you ,Anne, the guy lost a son and a wife and then his name is being thrown around here on fornits and then there are people like RobertBruce who is sending emails to the guys family and friends. I feel for him too.
From what I know about ASR and read about the kids troubles we can be assured that the school helped him out tremendously and this is also evident in his passion to raise money for other children to attend.
...
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From what I know about ASR and read about the kids troubles we can be assured that the school helped him out tremendously and this is also evident in his passion to raise money for other children to attend.
No, we can't be assured of that at all (it's one simple request....can't you at least stop doing that? WE don't have a consensus on anything, yet you insist on trying to make it seem so) and I don't know how anyone in their right mind could come to that conclusion. It might make you feel better to believe that, but those of us who have been thru it know that it is incredibly damaging and how much it hurts and for how long.
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From what I know about ASR and read about the kids troubles we can be assured that the school helped him out tremendously and this is also evident in his passion to raise money for other children to attend.
No, we can't be assured of that at all (it's one simple request....can't you at least stop doing that? WE don't have a consensus on anything, yet you insist on trying to make it seem so) and I don't know how anyone in their right mind could come to that conclusion. It might make you feel better to believe that, but those of us who have been thru it know that it is incredibly damaging and how much it hurts and for how long.
I have watched my daughter go through it, Anne. I know how successful the program can be. I have watched several other kids go through the program. I have read the studies and reviews on the school. I believe John Reubens son did very well there. There is no doubt in my mind on this. I do understand you are skeptical of this and dont believe it and that is fine. But since this guy is closer to the situation than you and I.
...
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I have watched my daughter go through it, Anne.
The one who you said went back to her old ways after getting out? The one who ended up figuring out her life on her own? That daughter?
I have watched several other kids go through the program.
Right.....you've watched from the sidelines and have no idea what these kids go thru on a daily basis behind closed doors.
I have read the studies and reviews on the school.
You mean the parental surveys? Please post these "studies" on the school. Even if you already have, please for the benefit of us all, post them.
I believe John Reubens son did very well there. There is no doubt in my mind on this.
Yet he ended up dead at his own hand, right?
I do understand you are skeptical of this and dont believe it and that is fine. But since this guy is closer to the situation than you and I.
The father, whom I believe is you? Of course he's closer to the situation, which makes complete sense as to why he'd like to believe that what he did was good for his child, even though it wasn't. It's a bitter pill to swallow. The guilt you must feel......I can't even fathom. If you weren't trying to profit from your own son's death (yes, my opinion, I know) then I actually would have some sympathy for you.
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I just heard somewhere a good rationale as to why some parents do what they do (send their kids off) and then feel the way they do (as Whooter does). So they can sit back in the aftermath and congratulate themselves on how much they tried to help. No matter that what they were doing was actually harming the child.....it made the parents feel better and that's ultimately what mattered most.
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The one who you said went back to her old ways after getting out? The one who ended up figuring out her life on her own? That daughter?
She didnt go back to her old ways when she got home. She went back to her old friends and drank and smoked pot. She was out of the party scene for about 15 months and it is natural for a teen to experiment and have fun. She wasnt sent away for drinking or smoking pot. She very quickly tired of her old friends because they just sat around too much for her and she had been use to being so busy that she moved on.
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Yet he ended up dead at his own hand, right?
I am not sure how this relates. There are thousands of kids who take their lives every day that never attended a program.
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The one who you said went back to her old ways after getting out? The one who ended up figuring out her life on her own? That daughter?
She didnt go back to her old ways when she got home. She went back to her old friends and drank and smoked pot. She was out of the party scene for about 15 months and it is natural for a teen to experiment and have fun.
Funny, but that's what so many of them get shipped off for. That's what so many programs advertise about. That's on so many of their useless "online questionnaires".
She wasnt sent away for drinking or smoking pot. She very quickly tired of her old friends because they just sat around too much for her and she had been use to being so busy that she moved on.
And what makes you think "she" wouldn't have otherwise? What was "she" sent away for?
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The father, whom I believe is you? Of course he's closer to the situation, which makes complete sense as to why he'd like to believe that what he did was good for his child, even though it wasn't. It's a bitter pill to swallow. The guilt you must feel......I can't even fathom. If you weren't trying to profit from your own son's death (yes, my opinion, I know) then I actually would have some sympathy for you.
The same logic could be applied to you. You went through a program got out and had problems. Who are you going to blame yourself? No way. It has to be the programs and your fathers fault. You are too close to the situation to have an unbiased point of view. Maybe if you had applied yourself you would have not had the difficulty in the program that you claim to have had. But you can only see what you want. Your logic works both ways.
Anne, I don’t profit from any of this and I am not this Reuben guy. If there were a way I could prove it I would. But it is what it is. I could believe you were a waitress from Iowa just pretending to be survivor for kicks. That applies to all posters here. We are all anonymous.
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And what makes you think "she" wouldn't have otherwise? What was "she" sent away for?
I would rather not get into that here on this thread. She had dropped out of school, was partying some but not any more than I did at her age, but we lost communication and she had given up on school and a few other issues. We worked locally which didnt help so we turned to out placement. It turned out to be the right move. I agree it is not for everyone. each situation and school is different.
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Funny, but that's what so many of them get shipped off for. That's what so many programs advertise about. That's on so many of their useless "online questionnaires".
I have read that too. There are many parents who over react and panic when their kid smokes pot but this isnt the norm from what I have seen.
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The father, whom I believe is you? Of course he's closer to the situation, which makes complete sense as to why he'd like to believe that what he did was good for his child, even though it wasn't. It's a bitter pill to swallow. The guilt you must feel......I can't even fathom. If you weren't trying to profit from your own son's death (yes, my opinion, I know) then I actually would have some sympathy for you.
The same logic could be applied to you. You went through a program got out and had problems. Who are you going to blame yourself? No way.
Only because I didn't have those problems before I was sent off. I was doing even what you refer to as "normal" behavior for a teen. And, as I've said countless times before, the people I was hanging around with at the time I was sent away all turned out just fine, even though they were doing "worse" things than I was and Straight albut guaranteed my parents that those kids would be deadinsaneorinjail because they didn't have the "benefit" of Straight. The serious problems only arose after I got out and have been diagnosed as the result of PTSD from what Straight did to me.
It has to be the programs and your fathers fault. You are too close to the situation to have an unbiased point of view.
Except that pesky PTSD diagnosis.
Maybe if you had applied yourself you would have not had the difficulty in the program that you claim to have had.
Ah...the old standard. "If you had applied yourself". I "graduated". And I didn't have near the "difficulty" ( wasn't nearly as abused as others) because I never resisted. I was compliant and the effects were still devastating, according not only to me, but the many therapists that I saw after getting out.
Anne, I don’t profit from any of this and I am not this Reuben guy. If there were a way I could prove it I would.
There is, but you'd never allow it.
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So, why did you send your "daughter" away, if not for drug/alcohol abuse?
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Only because I didn't have those problems before I was sent off. I was doing even what you refer to as "normal" behavior for a teen. And, as I've said countless times before, the people I was hanging around with at the time I was sent away all turned out just fine, even though they were doing "worse" things than I was and Straight albut guaranteed my parents that those kids would be deadinsaneorinjail because they didn't have the "benefit" of Straight. The serious problems only arose after I got out and have been diagnosed as the result of PTSD from what Straight did to me.
Many times doctors can be wrong as we all well know here on fornits. Their diagnosis can be way off. If you had stayed home you could have been much worse off than your friends. I am not sure I buy all of that on the surface Anne.
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There is, but you'd never allow it.
To give my true identity? You know that would not be wise, Anne. Even you would not advise me to give my name and address on this forum.
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No need for Whooter to prove who he is. That's done already. He has already admitted to all of the inside details of Mike Reuben's placement including exactly where he got treatment prior to the program, who referred him and all the details about his academics before placement as well. It's sorry to have to see Whooter try to pretend he has a daughter and that "if only he could prove" he wasn't John Reuben then he, dammit, *tears streaming down his cheeks* he would do just that, Anne.
Gimme a break already. Just read the below posts where Whooter tells all of it in his own words. He's just a lying asshole using Fornits to try to do damage control for his floundering program referral business. It's sad to watch as I admitted, but it's what the "true believers" will do to cover for their precious programs. Whooter even made up children he didn't have to hold them out as "true program success stories." That's a level of sickness most of us could never fathom, but hr did it and confessed to it.
when people are angry at other people, they can make things up. max was angry at his dad for sending him to a school that robbed him of his youth and closure with his mother. It is equally as likely that he was directing his anger towards his dad and making things up, as it is that his dad was actually involved in his mother's death.
Does anyone know how long Max was away from HLA for his mothers funeral? Was he forced to go?
3 Days maybe 4 I dont remember. A family member an aunt I think picked him up and went back with him. He wasnt forced to go, he was glad to get a break from that place.
Well, here's the conclusive proof that TheWho is either John Reuben or the most shameless liar of all time on Fornits, or both.
Please explain to us, Whooter, how you are privy to the family information. We're all ears.
Here's more of WHooter's detailed, unpublished information regarding Mike Reuben:
Prior to ASR the father had Mike seen by a specialist in the field of addiction and he was referred to a Counselor who worked one on one with him. As his grades continued to slip and his relationship with drugs became stronger he was recommended to ASR by The Director of Pediatrics at Children’s Hospital in Boston.
ASR was able to arrest his behavior, teach him to cope with himself and the problems that life will and has thrown at him and set him on a healthy path. He graduated ASR, attended and graduated from college and continued his interest in Music and a made himself successful in a career in Sales. He continued to struggle throughout his life with his addiction until it finally took his life.
As we all know addiction isn’t something that is cured but is a lifetime challenge and each person attempts to hold it at bay the best he can. The road can be long and arduous and in many instances the road is short as it was for Mike.
Please be respectful of this boys life and struggles and don’t twist his story to make him a tool for your agenda.
How would Whooter know all of this unpublished information?
Hmmmm..... Getting more interesting as we go...
Funny. I think most people know and have used the word "junkie" before. I had never seen it spelled "junky" (when referring to a "junkie") before until today.
If you tie a junky to his bed for a couple of days to get him past the physical addiction is it considered cruel? If he comes thru it and says “Thank you man you saved my life, I owe you big time, my friend” is that worth it to both of you? Should you go to jail for restraining someone? Kidnapping? Torture?
That word appears nowhere else on this forum except that post. But, it does appear elsewhere on the 'net...
Live Music Junky
...on John Reuben's MySpace page.
Also from John Reuben's MySpace page (from 2007, before Mike died, but after his wife, Lena, died):
John's Blurbs
About me:
I am 48, father of two older boys, runner, and live music lover. My tastes range mostly from blues to classic rock, to alternative. Recent shows: Everclear Peter Yorn Chicago Steely Dan Widespread Panic Eric Clapton Allman Brothers Sarah Borges Entrain Jeff Pitchell I see about 30-40 shows a year.
Who I'd like to meet:
Hoping to meet someone I can share some time with and in particular, see sdome music with this summer.
"Who" else on Fornits is a "Live Music Junky" that always talks about how many shows he sees?
I also noticed that he didn't say he is a "widower," he says he is "divorced." Pretty creepy considering that other posters here who went to HLA with Max said that Max "blamed his father for his mother's death."
Children: I don't want kids
Yeah, no shit. I think we knew that already.
Hometown: Philadelphia
"Who" else on Fornits is from Philly...?
I spent so much time sleeping in the streets around the spectrum in Philadelphia waiting for the ticket offices to open up that the homeless and I started to recognize and nod to each other. Ticket-tron was just getting started and they were only given a limited number of tickets to sell, so the only guarantee was the ticket office. Besides many other things I was a concert junkie.
I wont tell you my year of birth. But the concert was in the winter 1973, December I think, and it was at the Spectrum in Philadelphia. It was the Quadrophenia tour.
He does it "to get something positive out of this tragedy and let people know this happens in fortunate and unfortunate families, in Malden, Somerville, Sudbury and Los Angeles," he said.
Malden, eh? I wonder "Who" else has posted from Malden here on Fornits...?
24.41.10.XXX [ 1197 Posts ] [ Look up IP address ]
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TheWho [ 1197 Posts ] Search
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24.41.82.XXX [ 1616 Posts ] [ Look up IP address ]
IP Address Country Region City Latitude/Longitude ZIP Code Time Zone
24.41.10.XXX UNITED STATES MASSACHUSETTS MALDEN 42.4305-71.0574 02148 -05:00
Net Speed ISP Domain
DSL EARTHLINK INC EARTHLINK.NET
IDD Code Area Code Weather Station
1 781 USMA0228 - MALDEN
Then we have Whooter posting from IP address (thanks for giving Psy permission to post these IP's Whooter. It has been a big help to me!) 24.41.82.XXX.
And where does our handy little IP Locator put this IP address? "Swampscott, MA."
Who might Whooter know in Swampscott, I wonder...?
Catherine Reuben! (http://http://maps.google.com/maps/place?rlz=1T4GGLG_enUS312US312&um=1&ie=UTF-8&q=SWAMPSCOTT+%22reuben%22&fb=1&gl=us&hq=reuben&hnear=Swampscott,+MA&cid=526551623140969011)
Just "coincidences" I suppose...?
Whooter, or John, whichever you prefer, you are the biggest fucking phony liar I have ever had the displeasure to become acquainted with.
Why would anyone believe a single word this congenital liar utters here? Makes no sense. It's all phony.
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Only because I didn't have those problems before I was sent off. I was doing even what you refer to as "normal" behavior for a teen. And, as I've said countless times before, the people I was hanging around with at the time I was sent away all turned out just fine, even though they were doing "worse" things than I was and Straight albut guaranteed my parents that those kids would be deadinsaneorinjail because they didn't have the "benefit" of Straight. The serious problems only arose after I got out and have been diagnosed as the result of PTSD from what Straight did to me.
Many times doctors can be wrong as we all well know here on fornits. Their diagnosis can be way off. If you had stayed home you could have been much worse off than your friends. I am not sure I buy all of that on the surface Anne.
Doesn't matter if you believe it or not. It's what happened and damned if I've got another explanation. I honestly tried for years, before getting help, to figure out why all my friends who, were supposed to be all fucked up by now, were doing fine and I was struggling so hard. It drove me nuts! See.....I was one of those that, after two years of complete isolation from the outside world combined with all the abuses that have been well documented (even you have agreed Straight was pretty bad because you keep talking about how programs have come so far since then), succumbed to the brainwashing and believed what Straight taught me. I believed what they told me about myself. But I couldn't figure out the cognitive dissonance between what they taught me to believe, and that the reality I was seeing was the opposite. They each had all had they're different ways, but they were basically pretty decent, well adjusted people. No arrests, no suicides, nobody in a psyche ward.....they were all pretty much living their lives. When I started actively looking into why reality was so different than what Straight taught and wanted me to be (which, coincidentally had quite a bit in common with AA/NA etc., but we'll save that for another thread), I started to heal. I had no clue how to live life in reality.....All I knew was what Straight and/or AA taught me and since reality doesn't work that way, I had to start start from behind. They had denied me an important part of my adolescence and had delayed and distorted the process of learning and growing normally......as my peers in high school were allowed to do. Then the light bulb went off. I started reading and researching and it all started to begin to make some sense. By then, most of my latter childhood was gone and replaced with some weird podlife.
It still took years until I was fully able to understand the depth and complexities of what they did and how they accomplished it. I thank God for the people I met after Straight. I never would have made it through without them. My father was so stuck to the core beliefs of Straight, which was taking the "tough love" concept and putting it on steroids. For the record, the actual group, "Tough Love", denounced Straight for it's abusive ways, http://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/37 ... ?print=all (http://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/373/the_myth_of_tough_love?print=all) (great article, btw) . There's a culture to this.....an entire movement. It's not just "this program" or "that one". It's the whole of it. It's the dependence, the hypocrisy, the self doubt, the surrender of 'self', the replacement of individual instinct and feelings and values with 'the group's'. It's insidious it's gotten so far into society that it becomes OK to treat anyone like this, let alone our kids.
Anyway....there's so much more to what's done to us than someone like you would ever begin to be able to understand and combined with the emotional investment and motivation you must feel in order to soothe yourself, I guess you have no choice but to defend this kind of crap. You need a way to rationalize and justify what you did. You need to deny that what you did as a parent, may have irreparably injured your child's development. If you didn't, it would become all to real to you what really happened to your child while in the custody of the people you sent "her" to.
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There is, but you'd never allow it.
To give my true identity? You know that would not be wise, Anne. Even you would not advise me to give my name and address on this forum.
Well, If you are not John Reuben you can have that easily verified here without giving away who you are, but if you are John Reuben, well.....you've already made yourself sort of a public figure, right? I mean, you're the head of a non-profit organization to raise money to help kids. So, since you're not Reuben...you've got nothing to lose, right?
If you're really not then no, I wouldn't want you to give away your identity, but if you are.......then if you believe so much in what you do, and raise funds in order to send kids away, then put your damn name on it.
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Doesn't matter if you believe it or not. It's what happened and damned if I've got another explanation. I honestly tried for years, before getting help, to figure out why all my friends who, were supposed to be all fucked up by now, were doing fine and I was struggling so hard. It drove me nuts! See.....I was one of those that, after two years of complete isolation from the outside world combined with all the abuses that have been well documented (even you have agreed Straight was pretty bad because you keep talking about how programs have come so far since then), succumbed to the brainwashing and believed what Straight taught me. I believed what they told me about myself. But I couldn't figure out the cognitive dissonance between what they taught me to believe, and that the reality I was seeing was the opposite. They each had all had they're different ways, but they were basically pretty decent, well adjusted people. No arrests, no suicides, nobody in a psyche ward.....they were all pretty much living their lives. When I started actively looking into why reality was so different than what Straight taught and wanted me to be (which, coincidentally had quite a bit in common with AA/NA etc., but we'll save that for another thread), I started to heal. I had no clue how to live life in reality.....All I knew was what Straight and/or AA taught me and since reality doesn't work that way, I had to start start from behind. They had denied me an important part of my adolescence and had delayed and distorted the process of learning and growing normally......as my peers in high school were allowed to do. Then the light bulb went off. I started reading and researching and it all started to begin to make some sense. By then, most of my latter childhood was gone and replaced with some weird podlife.
It still took years until I was fully able to understand the depth and complexities of what they did and how they accomplished it. I thank God for the people I met after Straight. I never would have made it through without them. My father was so stuck to the core beliefs of Straight, which was taking the "tough love" concept and putting it on steroids. For the record, the actual group, "Tough Love", denounced Straight for it's abusive ways, http://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/37 ... ?print=all (http://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/373/the_myth_of_tough_love?print=all) (great article, btw) . There's a culture to this.....an entire movement. It's not just "this program" or "that one". It's the whole of it. It's the dependence, the hypocrisy, the self doubt, the surrender of 'self', the replacement of individual instinct and feelings and values with 'the group's'. It's insidious it's gotten so far into society that it becomes OK to treat anyone like this, let alone our kids.
Thats a big ordeal Anne and I could take the position you take on me and my daughter and decide that the evidence so far points to that you would have done far worse if you had never gone to straight and done far better if you had applied yourself and tried to take what straight offered to your own advantage.
You have the right to view what I say anyway you want to just like I can. I can tell you straight out that I never made a dime off of the industry and have paid them over $100,000. I am not this person Reuben nor was I Peter Durham or any of the others. You can chose to believe me or not, just like I can chose to believe your story.
Anyway....there's so much more to what's done to us than someone like you would ever begin to be able to understand and combined with the emotional investment and motivation you must feel in order to soothe yourself, I guess you have no choice but to defend this kind of crap. You need a way to rationalize and justify what you did. You need to deny that what you did as a parent, may have irreparably injured your child's development. If you didn't, it would become all to real to you what really happened to your child while in the custody of the people you sent "her" to.
I saw my daughter grow up before my eyes and also saw her fall and get lost. After the program she found herself again and has been doing great in leaps and bounds. Its been more than 5 years so any brain washing would have warn off so that never occurred and she hasn't needed therapy or medication in years. ASR got her interested in school and interested in herself again. She has better self esteem and matured beyond her years during the time she spent at ASR.
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There is, but you'd never allow it.
To give my true identity? You know that would not be wise, Anne. Even you would not advise me to give my name and address on this forum.
Well, If you are not John Reuben you can have that easily verified here without giving away who you are,
How?
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Yet he ended up dead at his own hand, right?
I am not sure how this relates. There are thousands of kids who take their lives every day that never attended a program.
Is it true or not? There are many people what would dispute that it "doesn't relate". There are many people who would say that the LGAT-type "seminars" he was exposed to directly or indirectly contributed to how he was feeling, if he took his own life. That, in itself, is relevant to and worth of debate.
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Yet he ended up dead at his own hand, right?
I am not sure how this relates. There are thousands of kids who take their lives every day that never attended a program.
Is it true or not? There are many people what would dispute that it "doesn't relate". There are many people who would say that the LGAT-type "seminars" he was exposed to directly or indirectly contributed to how he was feeling, if he took his own life. That, in itself, is relevant to and worth of debate.
I do agree it is worth a debate. But I am curious as to how I could prove I am not this Reuben guy without revealing who I am. Did you have a suggestion?
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Doesn't matter if you believe it or not. It's what happened and damned if I've got another explanation. I honestly tried for years, before getting help, to figure out why all my friends who, were supposed to be all fucked up by now, were doing fine and I was struggling so hard. It drove me nuts! See.....I was one of those that, after two years of complete isolation from the outside world combined with all the abuses that have been well documented (even you have agreed Straight was pretty bad because you keep talking about how programs have come so far since then), succumbed to the brainwashing and believed what Straight taught me. I believed what they told me about myself. But I couldn't figure out the cognitive dissonance between what they taught me to believe, and that the reality I was seeing was the opposite. They each had all had they're different ways, but they were basically pretty decent, well adjusted people. No arrests, no suicides, nobody in a psyche ward.....they were all pretty much living their lives. When I started actively looking into why reality was so different than what Straight taught and wanted me to be (which, coincidentally had quite a bit in common with AA/NA etc., but we'll save that for another thread), I started to heal. I had no clue how to live life in reality.....All I knew was what Straight and/or AA taught me and since reality doesn't work that way, I had to start start from behind. They had denied me an important part of my adolescence and had delayed and distorted the process of learning and growing normally......as my peers in high school were allowed to do. Then the light bulb went off. I started reading and researching and it all started to begin to make some sense. By then, most of my latter childhood was gone and replaced with some weird podlife.
It still took years until I was fully able to understand the depth and complexities of what they did and how they accomplished it. I thank God for the people I met after Straight. I never would have made it through without them. My father was so stuck to the core beliefs of Straight, which was taking the "tough love" concept and putting it on steroids. For the record, the actual group, "Tough Love", denounced Straight for it's abusive ways, http://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/37 ... ?print=all (http://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/373/the_myth_of_tough_love?print=all) (great article, btw) . There's a culture to this.....an entire movement. It's not just "this program" or "that one". It's the whole of it. It's the dependence, the hypocrisy, the self doubt, the surrender of 'self', the replacement of individual instinct and feelings and values with 'the group's'. It's insidious it's gotten so far into society that it becomes OK to treat anyone like this, let alone our kids.
Thats a big ordeal Anne and I could take the position you take on me and my daughter and decide that the evidence so far points to that you would have done far worse if you had never gone to straight and done far better if you had applied yourself and tried to take what straight offered to your own advantage.
You have the right to view what I say anyway you want to just like I can. I can tell you straight out that I never made a dime off of the industry and have paid them over $100,000. I am not this person Reuben nor was I Peter Durham or any of the others. You can chose to believe me or not, just like I can chose to believe your story.
Anyway....there's so much more to what's done to us than someone like you would ever begin to be able to understand and combined with the emotional investment and motivation you must feel in order to soothe yourself, I guess you have no choice but to defend this kind of crap. You need a way to rationalize and justify what you did. You need to deny that what you did as a parent, may have irreparably injured your child's development. If you didn't, it would become all to real to you what really happened to your child while in the custody of the people you sent "her" to.
I saw my daughter grow up before my eyes and also saw her fall and get lost (as did my father). After the program she found herself again and has been doing great in leaps and bounds. Its been more than 5 years (but you said that she had some issues after getting out, which could be described as her 'deprogramming' herself) so any brain washing would have warn off (yes, which is why "she" improved) so that never occurred and she hasn't needed therapy or medication in years. (right, she became 'deprogrammed' a lot more quickly than I did and figured things out on her own) ASR got her interested in school and interested in herself again. She has better self esteem and matured beyond her years during the time she spent at ASR.
Above ^^^in blue, me.
Who's to say she wouldn't have if left to her own learning? What was she doing that was so out of line that you felt it necessary to send her away?
So, what I got out of your post was that your "daughter" ended up doing well. No evidence, either way, that she would've done better or worse with a program. She had a few problems in life, before and after according to you, and got them straightened out. However, I gave ample evidence of the exact opposite happening in Straight, because of the same methods that are used today, and you have nothing to say about that. You've nothing to say about the LGATs or how the accomplish this 'coerced reprogramming'.
You have no idea what made your "daughter" end up figuring things out. Correlation does not equal causation.
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Who's to say she wouldn't have if left to her own learning?
We will never know. The same as your path if you never went to straight.
What was she doing that was so out of line that you felt it necessary to send her away?
Other than what I mentioned above I dont want to go into specifics on her issues.
So, what I got out of your post was that your "daughter" ended up doing well. No evidence, either way, that she would've done better or worse with a program. She had a few problems in life, before and after according to you, and got them straightened out. However, I gave ample evidence of the exact opposite happening in Straight, because of the same methods that are used today, and you have nothing to say about that. You've nothing to say about the LGATs or how the accomplish this 'coerced reprogramming'.
I dont believe she was reprogrammed or brainwashed. LGAT's can be extremely intense or fairly benign. They are used all over the country by some of out largest corporations. Do I believe LGAT's can be hurtful? yes. But they can be helpful also is used correctly. A few pain killers can ease the pain, too many can kill you. You just need to moderate and apply it properly.
spoke to her about her progress and what she was going through, she had a therapist who communicated with her therapist at home
You have no idea what made your "daughter" end up figuring things out. Correlation does not equal causation.
I agree we will never know, none of us will never know what would happen if we took a different path. All I can say is I knew her and saw what the program had done for her. The turn around would never have occurred if left to her own path.
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When you are interested in an "open discussion" again let me know.
I'm always interested in open discussion. What I'm not interested in is your attempts at damage control. I'm only going to have this conversation with you if you start being honest.
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Which has been my budding question to you Robert, are your motivations to slander, deny, fabricate and lie.
When you can form that info a complete sentence I'll address it.
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When you are interested in an "open discussion" again let me know.
I'm always interested in open discussion. What I'm not interested in is your attempts at damage control. I'm only going to have this conversation with you if you start being honest.
I think it should go both ways, Bruce. You need to be open to people explaining their motives and giving reasons behind their actions. You need to be open yourself.
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Who's to say she wouldn't have if left to her own learning?
We will never know. The same as your path if you never went to straight.
But at least we have those comparisons of my peers and the predictions that Straight gave of myself and those peers that never did come true.
What was she doing that was so out of line that you felt it necessary to send her away?
Other than what I mentioned above I dont want to go into specifics on her issues.
Why on earth not? It's not like you have to give her name, fercrissakes. I
I dont believe she was reprogrammed or brainwashed. LGAT's can be extremely intense or fairly benign. They are used all over the country by some of out largest corporations. Do I believe LGAT's can be hurtful? yes. But they can be helpful also is used correctly. A few pain killers can ease the pain, too many can kill you. You just need to moderate and apply it properly.
Painkillers don't scream in your face in attempt to humiliate you into 'breaking". It's apples and oranges and you know it. There's nothing helpful about humiliating and degrading a child while they're still in their developmental years.
I agree we will never know, none of us will never know what would happen if we took a different path. All I can say is I knew her and saw what the program had done for her. The turn around would never have occurred if left to her own path.
So, you're willing to say it 'saved her life', but not what it 'saved' her from?
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Painkillers don't scream in your face in attempt to humiliate you into 'breaking". It's apples and oranges and you know it. There's nothing helpful about humiliating and degrading a child while they're still in their developmental years.
I have spoken to people who attended LGATs for work and they did not humiliate or scream in their faces. It was intense but more towards a work shop than it was brainwashing.
So, you're willing to say it 'saved her life', but not what it 'saved' her from?
I don’t know if she would have died without it but it put her on a better healthier path. It turned her around, taught her to communicate, built up her self esteem and helped her to believe in herself again and take control of her own life.
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Painkillers don't scream in your face in attempt to humiliate you into 'breaking". It's apples and oranges and you know it.
Anne, this is a valid analogy. My point being if you take a couple of pain killers they can help you. But they can also be dangerous if misused. The same applies to LGATs.(They can be helpful or dangerous) They can be designed to be helpful and benign or they can be extremely intense and lengthy and abusive.
This was my point. I wasn’t trying to imply that pain killers can scream at you or humiliate you. They are just pills. Are you serious that you cannot see the analogy and thought I was saying that pills scream at people or are you just giving me a hard time?
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Painkillers don't scream in your face in attempt to humiliate you into 'breaking". It's apples and oranges and you know it.
Anne, this is a valid analogy.
I know where you were trying to go with it, but no.....it's really not. It's not as subjective as LGATs are. There are specific guidelines that physicians have to follow for prescriptions (yes, they're abused too), but the discretion is not nearly as liberal as LGATs. They're not even regulated at all, as far as I'm aware.....as prescriptions are. Hence, apples to oranges.
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Painkillers don't scream in your face in attempt to humiliate you into 'breaking". It's apples and oranges and you know it.
Anne, this is a valid analogy.
I know where you were trying to go with it, but no.....it's really not. It's not as subjective as LGATs are. There are specific guidelines that physicians have to follow for prescriptions (yes, they're abused too), but the discretion is not nearly as liberal as LGATs. They're not even regulated at all, as far as I'm aware.....as prescriptions are. Hence, apples to oranges.
I am not talking about regulation/physicians etc.... If you take two pain killers they will relieve the pain... if you take a whole bottle you will die. The same medication can cure or kill you.
There are LGATs that Ford motor Company uses. They dont humiliate or scream in your face. They are intense but more towards a work shop and can be over in 8 hours. there are also LGATs which can be very abusive with the screaming and humiliation lasting for days. these may do damage to people.
Both are LGATs... one benign the other hurtful.
My point is that if you misuse something it can be hurtful. If you use it properly it can help you.
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Painkillers don't scream in your face in attempt to humiliate you into 'breaking". It's apples and oranges and you know it.
Anne, this is a valid analogy.
I know where you were trying to go with it, but no.....it's really not. It's not as subjective as LGATs are. There are specific guidelines that physicians have to follow for prescriptions (yes, they're abused too), but the discretion is not nearly as liberal as LGATs. They're not even regulated at all, as far as I'm aware.....as prescriptions are. Hence, apples to oranges.
I am not talking about regulation/physicians etc.... If you take two pain killers they will relieve the pain... if you take a whole bottle you will die. The same medication can cure or kill you.
There are LGATs that Ford motor Company uses. They dont humiliate or scream in your face. They are intense but more towards a work shop and can be over in 8 hours. there are also LGATs which can be very abusive with the screaming and humiliation lasting for days. these may do damage to people.
Both are LGATs... one benign the other hurtful.
My point is that if you misuse something it can be hurtful. If you use it properly it can help you.
That's why it's not a good analogy and it's apples to oranges.
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That's why it's not a good analogy and it's apples to oranges.
I dont understand? An analogy is intended to make a connection between two things that are unrelated. Apples and oranges are two different things but they are both round and are both fruits. Therefore you can make a connection between the two even though they are different.
Maybe you dont understand analogies and that is fine.
My point is that LGATs can vary in intensity. They are not all the same and are not necessarily dangerous or abusive.
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My point is that LGATs can vary in intensity. They are not all the same and are not necessarily dangerous or abusive.
I think they are, especially without informed consent. These kids have no idea what they're in for and, again, you have no idea what it's like to be exposed to that, as a developing teen, with a still developing personality and mind, under uncontrolled circumstances....which all LGATs really are...uncontrolled & unregulated. They don't have to be and the consequences can be devastating.
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That's why it's not a good analogy and it's apples to oranges.
I dont understand? An analogy is intended to make a connection between two things that are unrelated. Apples and oranges are two different things but they are both round and are both fruits. Therefore you can make a connection between the two even though they are different.
No, not really. I think it's you that doesn't understand the definition.....
a·nal·o·gy
? ?/??næl?d?i/ Show Spelled[uh-nal-uh-jee] Show IPA
–noun, plural -gies.
1.
a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.
2.
similarity or comparability: I see no analogy between your problem and mine.
3.
Biology . an analogous relationship.
4.
Linguistics .
a.
the process by which words or phrases are created or re-formed according to existing patterns in the language, as when shoon was re-formed as shoes, when -ize is added to nouns like winter to form verbs, or when a child says foots for feet.
b.
a form resulting from such a process.
5.
Logic . a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects.
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Exactly, The pain killer can help or hurt someone just like the LGAT can help or hurt someone.
It depends on how they are utilized. They are both cures or they both could hurt you.
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Exactly, The pain killer can help or hurt someone just like the LGAT can help or hurt someone.
It depends on how they are utilized. They are both cures or they both could hurt you.
Yet one requires a credentialed education and medical qualification to dispense and the other.....well any 'ole jackass can lead an LGAT.
Apples to oranges.
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Exactly, The pain killer can help or hurt someone just like the LGAT can help or hurt someone.
It depends on how they are utilized. They are both cures or they both could hurt you.
Yet one requires a credentialed education and medical qualification to dispense and the other.....well any 'ole jackass can lead an LGAT.
Apples to oranges.
People can buy pain killers without a prescription. Any ole jackass can dispense them. we had kids in college who would dispense them all year long. They may tell you to take two or four depending on how they felt.
So it depends on your perspective.
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So I think one needs to look at the individual LGAT itself to determine if it is abusive or not. I dont think we can make a blanket statement that all LGATs are abusive.
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People can buy pain killers without a prescription. Any ole jackass can dispense them. we had kids in college who would dispense them all year long. They may tell you to take two or four depending on how they felt.
Not the kind that get you into trouble unless you're actively attempting suicide and then it really doesn't matter, if the person is serious.
So it depends on your perspective.
No, a qualified Doctor needs to dispense painkillers, especially the kind we're talking about. Any asshole can hang a shingle and claim to be an LGAT "counselor". There is a difference and you know it.
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No, a qualified Doctor needs to dispense painkillers, especially the kind we're talking about. Any asshole can hang a shingle and claim to be an LGAT "counselor". There is a difference and you know it.
No my roommate got plenty of pain killers from many different sources and he would give them to me on occasion. He never saw a doctor for them.
But either way my point is that LGATs can be helpful or harmful depending on how they are constructed and who is running them.
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Only because I didn't have those problems before I was sent off. I was doing even what you refer to as "normal" behavior for a teen. And, as I've said countless times before, the people I was hanging around with at the time I was sent away all turned out just fine, even though they were doing "worse" things than I was and Straight albut guaranteed my parents that those kids would be deadinsaneorinjail because they didn't have the "benefit" of Straight. The serious problems only arose after I got out and have been diagnosed as the result of PTSD from what Straight did to me.
Many times doctors can be wrong as we all well know here on fornits. Their diagnosis can be way off. If you had stayed home you could have been much worse off than your friends. I am not sure I buy all of that on the surface Anne.
Doesn't matter if you believe it or not. It's what happened and damned if I've got another explanation. I honestly tried for years, before getting help, to figure out why all my friends who, were supposed to be all fucked up by now, were doing fine and I was struggling so hard. It drove me nuts! See.....I was one of those that, after two years of complete isolation from the outside world combined with all the abuses that have been well documented (even you have agreed Straight was pretty bad because you keep talking about how programs have come so far since then), succumbed to the brainwashing and believed what Straight taught me. I believed what they told me about myself. But I couldn't figure out the cognitive dissonance between what they taught me to believe, and that the reality I was seeing was the opposite. They each had all had they're different ways, but they were basically pretty decent, well adjusted people. No arrests, no suicides, nobody in a psyche ward.....they were all pretty much living their lives. When I started actively looking into why reality was so different than what Straight taught and wanted me to be (which, coincidentally had quite a bit in common with AA/NA etc., but we'll save that for another thread), I started to heal. I had no clue how to live life in reality.....All I knew was what Straight and/or AA taught me and since reality doesn't work that way, I had to start start from behind. They had denied me an important part of my adolescence and had delayed and distorted the process of learning and growing normally......as my peers in high school were allowed to do. Then the light bulb went off. I started reading and researching and it all started to begin to make some sense. By then, most of my latter childhood was gone and replaced with some weird podlife.
It still took years until I was fully able to understand the depth and complexities of what they did and how they accomplished it. I thank God for the people I met after Straight. I never would have made it through without them. My father was so stuck to the core beliefs of Straight, which was taking the "tough love" concept and putting it on steroids. For the record, the actual group, "Tough Love", denounced Straight for it's abusive ways, http://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/37 ... ?print=all (http://www.thesunmagazine.org/issues/373/the_myth_of_tough_love?print=all) (great article, btw) . There's a culture to this.....an entire movement. It's not just "this program" or "that one". It's the whole of it. It's the dependence, the hypocrisy, the self doubt, the surrender of 'self', the replacement of individual instinct and feelings and values with 'the group's'. It's insidious it's gotten so far into society that it becomes OK to treat anyone like this, let alone our kids.
Anne, I think your saying it loud and clear you allowed yourself to be swallowed up by Straight, AA and NA. Some of us did not so we therefore have a different reality. Stop putting all of us in a "cookie cutter" analogy.
This has made you very angry. I guess if I was you I would be very angry, want to blame all programs for my abuses.
I never felt dependence on Elan, AA or NA (never trusted any organization) I have always had the ability to listen and not become attached.
I never surrendered self, had self doubt or any of the feeling your talking about for any length of time.
I am not saying I am better then you nor want to be, I am just saying what I have always been saying. There are two different realities people have from programs I think, neither of our experiences is more righteous then the other.
Anyway....there's so much more to what's done to us than someone like you would ever begin to be able to understand and combined with the emotional investment and motivation you must feel in order to soothe yourself, I guess you have no choice but to defend this kind of crap. You need a way to rationalize and justify what you did. You need to deny that what you did as a parent, may have irreparably injured your child's development. If you didn't, it would become all to real to you what really happened to your child while in the custody of the people you sent "her" to.
WoW.........how long has this been up your ass.
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No my roommate got plenty of pain killers from many different sources and he would give them to me on occasion. He never saw a doctor for them.
Yes, but at least the origination is from a qualified Doctor. Once it's in the patient's hands, they can either take it or sell it, but the Doctor is giving his qualified, good faith diagnosis with the credentialed education he's received in that field......yet...any asshole can call themselves an LGAT "therapist" or whatever the fuck other bullshit, non-accredited title they come up with for themselves....they have zero business doing what they're doing. They're unqualified and, it appears, quite a few become intoxicated with the absolute power they end up having over people.
But either way my point is that LGATs can be helpful or harmful depending on how they are constructed and who is running them.
You have nothing to back that up and there's plenty to suggest it, at the very least, isn't something that should be practiced or treated as any type if counseling or therapy (thus, subjecting them to true regulation, not that it does any good, yet. No teeth, but at least it woudl be a start & get something 'on the books' to protect these kids). As it is now, any asshole can start a program. They don't really need much, mainly the capital to start it up. It varies from state to state, which is why, IIRCA, why there are a lot in Montana and Utah. A qualified Dr. has to at least give a good faith diagnosis and follow the hippocratic oath. Primum Non Nocere. And the person is protected, however much, by the Patients Bill of Rights. And would have access to report abuse. And they're parents would be conditioned to not believe them. People who run LGATs really don't have to account to anyone and there is no real standard of care....they follow what's "worked" so far......break 'em and "build" 'em, skirt the law, spin the bad press & if all else fails, close up shop and start all over again. You guys just dont' realize how much damage the 'breaking' does.
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Yes, but at least the origination is from a qualified Doctor. Once it's in the patient's hands, they can either take it or sell it, but the Doctor is giving his qualified, good faith diagnosis with the credentialed education he's received in that field......yet...any asshole can call themselves an LGAT "therapist" or whatever the fuck other bullshit, non-accredited title they come up with for themselves....they have zero business doing what they're doing. They're unqualified and, it appears, quite a few become intoxicated with the absolute power they end up having over people.
Right, but it seems we both agree that the pain killers can be dispensed by any ole ass hole to the end user (some college kid). That was my original point, there is no control over how many is dispensed to the kid in the dorm room.
You have nothing to back that up and there's plenty to suggest it, at the very least, isn't something that should be practiced or treated as any type if counseling or therapy (thus, subjecting them to true regulation, not that it does any good, yet. No teeth, but at least it woudl be a start & get something 'on the books' to protect these kids). As it is now, any asshole can start a program. They don't really need much, mainly the capital to start it up. It varies from state to state, which is why, IIRCA, why there are a lot in Montana and Utah. A qualified Dr. has to at least give a good faith diagnosis and follow the hippocratic oath. Primum Non Nocere. And the person is protected, however much, by the Patients Bill of Rights. And would have access to report abuse. And they're parents would be conditioned to not believe them. People who run LGATs really don't have to account to anyone and there is no real standard of care....they follow what's "worked" so far......break 'em and "build" 'em, skirt the law, spin the bad press & if all else fails, close up shop and start all over again. You guys just dont' realize how much damage the 'breaking' does.
Geesh, I think we agree here somewhat. They dont have to account to anyone and that is why the LGATs can vary so much (i.e. no regulation, no qualified doctor). In one program they can be short and simple and in another they can last 3 days and be extremely abusive.
I have some experience in seeing how simple some of these LGATs can be when used as team building for corporations and I have seen how they are used in some of these programs as described by some of the stories I have read here on fornits. I think we can both agree that it is dangerous to have this go unregulated but as far as tagging all LGATs as abusive it just cant be done because we would have to look at each one individually to see how they are constructed.
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Did anyone notice that the NYC marathon was on Sunday ans Whooter was absent for its entirety?
Whooter was up early, posting at 4am on a Sunday. Kinda unusual, no? Then he stopped posting until 2:30pm. The marathon began at 8:30am and Whooter's 4 hour time put kim at the finish line at 12:30. Then he was back posting again at 2:30pm from the hotel.
Many of us discussed this privately before the race and we all agreed that if Whooter was absent during those hours, it would be the final proof (if you needed any more) that he is John Reuben. I rightly predicted he would post very early on the day of the race and begin posting again several hours after, which he did.
During the race a few items known to provoke Whooter into immediate resposes were posted as bait and he did not respond to them until 2:30pm when he went and responded to all of them.
So, just in case you were still on the fence about it, John Reuben posts here under the handle "Whooter."
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There's no fucking way that this clown can run a marathon in four hours.
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Did anyone notice that the NYC marathon was on Sunday ans Whooter was absent for its entirety?
Whooter was up early, posting at 4am on a Sunday. Kinda unusual, no? Then he stopped posting until 2:30pm. The marathon began at 8:30am and Whooter's 4 hour time put kim at the finish line at 12:30. Then he was back posting again at 2:30pm from the hotel.
Many of us discussed this privately before the race and we all agreed that if Whooter was absent during those hours, it would be the final proof (if you needed any more) that he is John Reuben. I rightly predicted he would post very early on the day of the race and begin posting again several hours after, which he did.
During the race a few items known to provoke Whooter into immediate resposes were posted as bait and he did not respond to them until 2:30pm when he went and responded to all of them.
So, just in case you were still on the fence about it, John Reuben posts here under the handle "Whooter."
4am! I dont remember getting up that early. So I went back and took a look at my postings for the 7th.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/search.php?keywords=&terms=all&author=whooter&sc=1&sf=all&sr=posts&sk=t&sd=d&st=0&ch=300&t=0&submit=Search)
Times I posted here on fornits (Eastern Standard Time):
9:08,9:23,9:49,10:05,10:23,10:43,11:08,11:14,11:31,11:35,12:55,15:26,15:41,16:15,17:31,19:48,19:55,20:48,22:17
(You stated the marathon started at 8:30am so I marked the marathon times Reuben was running in Red)
Gap between posts (in minutes):
15,26,16,18,20,25,6,17,4,80,151,15,34,76,137,7,53,89
Largest gap was 151 minutes (2 hours, 31 minutes) which occurred between 12:55 pm and 3:41 pm.
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So who on your staff posted for you while you were running?
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I give psy permission to check my email address and compare it to the one you posted. Its not mine. Like you said it belongs to this Reuben guy. Plus John Reuben wouldnt be signing his emails as "TheWho" from his place of business to prospective parents who inquire. Think about it. Someone has been pulling your leg.
To be fair. From what I know you about you, you have an IT staff. One which could easily set up proxies. You would give them dates and where you would want to be. They would set up proxy servers in such locations... could even use home lines. Then they would configure your browser and you can post on Fornits.com from anywhere, appearing to be at home, or wherever.
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I give psy permission to check my email address and compare it to the one you posted. Its not mine. Like you said it belongs to this Reuben guy. Plus John Reuben wouldnt be signing his emails as "TheWho" from his place of business to prospective parents who inquire. Think about it. Someone has been pulling your leg.
To be fair. From what I know you about you, you have an IT staff. One which could easily set up proxies. You would give them dates and where you would want to be. They would set up proxy servers in such locations... could even use home lines. Then they would configure your browser and you can post on Fornits.com from anywhere, appearing to be at home, or wherever.
Wow, psy, thats a stretch even for you. I think the fairy tale is over for Lenny and Squiggy (Bruce and DJ). All those years of their lives wasted on all those threads they built in that guys honor. They are not going to let go so easily and I understand that, it makes them look foolish either way. I am sure there will also be some people who will maintain a "white knuckle" grip on the thought that I am still this guy.
But in the end there are really no strings which connect me back to this guy (all the strings have been cut) just like all the other names that people linked me to in the past here on fornits.
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But in the end there are really no strings which connect me back to this guy
Except for the fact that you have yet to explain why:
1. Why you have the same email address as John Reuben.
2. How you know such intimate details concerning his son being locked up.
3. Why you lied about having a son.
4. Your fiduciary interest in the TTI.
5. Why you by your own admission have such a similar back ground as John Reuben.
Nothing's been explained away or cut Whootie. Nothing. The evidence against you is overwhelming. Meanwhile.....
Your claims concerning.......
1. I am Dysufunction Junction.
2. I am concerned parent.
3. I am Ajax13.
4. I am every guest poster who hurt your feelings.
5. I am you.
6. my time locked up in HLA.
7. my heterosexuality.
8. DJ's education.
9. DJ's resume.
10. Anne's sexual history.
The list goes on and on, yet somehow each and every one of your claims has never once been backed up, never been supported by the least amount of evidence, never been verified, and on several you've already been proven wrong. Despite that you still somehow cling to these delusions based on nothing. Talk about white knuckle grip Whootie, it might be time to accept you were proven wrong long ago. It's not like I didn't tell you so.
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Ha,Ha,Ha Wow your pissed, Bruce, you are not taking this too well. Sorry that it is over for you and you blew the last chance you had for a civil conversation. Now that everyone can see that I am not this Reuben guy you will have to start figuring out how to have a conversation versus attacking people. All those years wasted for you....shall we call you Squiggy? or 3 week Bruce? lol
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But in the end there are really no strings which connect me back to this guy
Except for the fact that you have yet to explain why:
1. Why you have the same email address as John Reuben.
??? I've never heard this before. 'Splains a lot though. How did this piece of information come about?
4. Your fiduciary interest in the TTI.
Yeah, that was never really explained. It was some bullshit like "we all have a fiduciary interest thru our insurance" or some other crap.
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But in the end there are really no strings which connect me back to this guy
Except for the fact that you have yet to explain why:
1. Why you have the same email address as John Reuben.
??? I've never heard this before. 'Splains a lot though. How did this piece of information come about?
This came about when Bruce and Dysfunction Junction were posting as "Control Parent" and fabricated a PM saying that I wrote the email. but it turned out they screwed up the date and I outed them. They put Reubens email on it, I think Lenny screwed that one up.
One of the better days here on fornits.
Now Lenny and Squiggy are out of Business. Sad day for them.
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But in the end there are really no strings which connect me back to this guy
Except for the fact that you have yet to explain why:
1. Why you have the same email address as John Reuben.
??? I've never heard this before. 'Splains a lot though. How did this piece of information come about?
4. Your fiduciary interest in the TTI.
Yeah, that was never really explained. It was some bullshit like "we all have a fiduciary interest thru our insurance" or some other crap.
It's fairly obvious to me that protecting his investment(s)is what motivates Whooter's
trolling activities here at fornits. Apparently, money is all John Reuben (Whooter) has.
It's really sad to see how low someone will sink & what they'll do for even a little bit of money.
Is all this anger and hurt you're causing really worth it Whooter? I know stupid question, because obviously it is worth it to you - but why? Seriously Whooter, why does it bother you so much that people who were abused in programs post about it here at fornits? If people want to share their experience online hoping that someone will listen, or just wanting to tell the truth, or to lend their support to others, or to find closure, or whatever the reason is - then why the hell do you care? If you're not here trolling and antagonizing program survivors to protect your investment(s) Whooter, then why do you do it then?
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But in the end there are really no strings which connect me back to this guy
Except for the fact that you have yet to explain why:
1. Why you have the same email address as John Reuben.
??? I've never heard this before. 'Splains a lot though. How did this piece of information come about?
This came about when Bruce and Dysfunction Junction were posting as "Control Parent" and fabricated a PM saying that I wrote the email. but it turned out they screwed up the date and I outed them. They put Reubens email on it, I think Lenny screwed that one up.
One of the better days here on fornits.
Now Lenny and Squiggy are out of Business. Sad day for them.
Yeah, I wasn't really asking you. ::)
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If people want to share their experience online hoping that someone will listen, or just wanting to tell the truth, or to lend their support to others, or to find closure, or whatever the reason is - then why the hell do you care?
I agree with you on a few points, Son, but there needs to be people like myself who can expose the bigotry and lies that are being spread by posters like yourself. Lets take a look:
Here take a look at Son of Serbias own words. There are hundreds of lies in this forum from him:
please don't not refer to me as "deranged", i prefer the term "eccentric". And i am not a biggot either, check my posts, you will see that i haven't called anyone a faggot.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=55867#p55867)
In another post son of Serbia writes:
The only faggot I see on this site is you!
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6319&p=57954&hilit=faggot#p57954)
So what is this about you never being caught lying on this forum? Seems the ones that get so pissed at others lying are the biggest liars themselves. I proved this with Dysfunction Junction also.
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Speaking of lying bigots...
They (gays) started having sex with each other in San Fransisco which caused the Aids Virus which proved that homosexuality was unnatural and needed to be treated like a disease.
:o ::puke::
I have to hang around here to expose the bigotry of people like Whooter as well as their arrogant hypocrisy. This guy is as ignorant and bigoted as they come.
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You forgot to post this one:
I was abused in a program that the poster whooter recommended to my parents. The staff licked my bottom and forced me to perform oral sex on them my first day there. They made me touch their dogs in places that I don’t want to talk about. I ran away and my parents are suing the program. I am scared for life.
Link (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?p=335866#p335866)
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Ha,Ha,Ha Wow your pissed, Bruce, you are not taking this too well. Sorry that it is over for you and you blew the last chance you had for a civil conversation. Now that everyone can see that I am not this Reuben guy you will have to start figuring out how to have a conversation versus attacking people. All those years wasted for you....shall we call you Squiggy? or 3 week Bruce? lol
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Taking what well John? Calling me names won't change the truth, and it won't bring your dead son back to life. Nothing's been wasted, because you're running scared. I know you hate accountability but it isn't going to go away. You can wiggle wiggle but you can't break free.
The offer for a civil conversation is always on the table, you just have to learn how to be honest about things. Take your time.
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This came about when Bruce and Dysfunction Junction were posting as "Control Parent" and fabricated a PM saying that I wrote the email. but it turned out they screwed up the date and I outed them. They put Reubens email on it, I think Lenny screwed that one up.
One of the better days here on fornits.
Now Lenny and Squiggy are out of Business. Sad day for them
I never posted as Concerned Parent John, I explained this to you sometime ago. If you recall you were thoroughly embarrassed and shamed after your claims of my guest posting and posting under various guises (your game not mine) came to nothing, and you were once again proven wrong.
Furthermore there were no discrepancies regarding the date. You're confusing a seperate issue. I saw the original PM from you where you stupidly gave out your email address, which just so happened to be the same as John Reuben. It must still sting how you walked right into it and you were played like a fiddle.
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The best part about it is that he still can't explain all the evidence supporting the fact that he is John Reuben, nor is he willing to acknowledge all the numerous mistakes he's made. I think the appropriate word is 'Tool'.
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He's not going to be able to explain anything for a while, RB. Whooter began harassing me via PM yet again after he was warned and threatened with banning. He's not going to be here for a bit. He's cooling his heels for a week.
Be on the lookout for his socks, though. He can't make it a week without posting, so he will definitely be using his socks. Be sure to report any post that is made by a banned Whooter so we can keep the ban going.
Bye-bye, Whooter! :roflmao: :twofinger:
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Aw shucks. Poor Johnny can't even lie about people or pretend these programs aren't all abusive without dealing with consequences. It must be some kind of double standard.
:cheers:
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Aw shucks. Poor Johnny can't even lie about people or pretend these programs aren't all abusive without dealing with consequences. It must be some kind of double standard.
:cheers:
Come on, Bruce. Give it up already. I'm still here and you ran away as usual.
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:beat: :rofl:
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent
Personally I think ASR is a good program. It worked for our family. My kid was there
when Dave Marcus wrote his book based on the kids in the program and they got back on
track and matured. I have been to the campus many times and think if it's a good fit
for your son that you shouldn't worry about it. Don't trust what you read on this site
because the members here are all anti-program and have an agenda to discredit all
programs. If you want to contact me outside fornits I can help you get in contact with
someone who can help you make the right decision. You can email me at
[email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) was offered by Whooter as a contact to talk outside of Fornits. How could John Reuben login as TheWho and send PMs to me as TheWho? Did Reuben break into TheWho's Fornits account? Or is it more sensible that John Reuben and TheWho are the same person? Obviously they are.
Then Whooter says this:
As far as the email goes that could have been anyone. How do you know [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected])
Ooops! Whooter caught in three separate gigantic lies in just this one thread from just one day. Why would anyone believe a word he says when he literally lies about EVERYTHING??
The game is over. TheWho has been thoroughly discredited just by his own admitted lies, and that's just the tip of the iceburg of whet he has lied about in his postings. These lies were easy to expose. Just quote the TheWho denying his statements and then quote him admitting to them. Only one can be true, so he it's undeniable he lied.
Nice try, but the email address you provided is no longer valid. You haven't proven anything to the readers.
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WHootie, although I am flattered by your offer of oral sex, I'm not into sex with males. Thanks, I guess, but please stop sending me pics of you and that asian kid.
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WHootie, although I am flattered by your offer of oral sex, I'm not into sex with males. Thanks, I guess, but please stop sending me pics of you and that asian kid.
That was actually none-ya who sent that pic, not me.
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