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Messages - nite owl

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1
The Troubled Teen Industry / Parents settled out of court
« on: March 11, 2006, 03:18:00 AM »
It is unfortunate that so many of these cases do not go to trial. This is one reason that these programs continue to thrive. Everyone just settles out of court - so there's little to no legal presedent. It would be good to see one of these places slapped with huge punitive damages. Lawsuits are one way to make changes in the industry.

You can lead a camel to water but you can't make it stink (any more than it already does)
-- Job


2
There's at least one danger sign - they have a program with levels - not good. It looks like the program is in a house - so probably there are only 12 girls or less in the program. Problem is anyone can open up a group home in Utah for only $300. Property is cheap - a house like that could be bought for about $200,000 on several acres. I'm sure they charge at least $5000 per student. There are about 1000 similar programs in Utah - houses that are converted into some type of a program for troubled youth. Group homes....

It does me no injury for my neighbor to say there are 20 gods, or no God. It neither picks my pocket nor breaks my leg.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat


3
The Troubled Teen Industry / View Boot Camp Beating of 14 year old
« on: March 03, 2006, 12:53:00 AM »
Some are saying that he died from complications of Sickle Cell disease or Exercise Related Death. Why was he forced to exercise if he had this disorder? Seems extremely negligent.

There's only one party on Capital Hill and it's the bipartisan spending party.
http://www.cagw.org/' target='_new'>Tom Schatz, president of Citizens Against Government Waste


4
I wasn't able to find anything on the net. Are you aware that the Mormon Church has a program for Young Women ( similar to girl scouts) It's called the Young Women's organization for girls age 12 to 17. They also have an award called

The Young Women's Achievement Award. Are you sure that this is a RTC?

There are a great many questions concerning The Seed that need to be answered. Both the methods of "obtaining" Seedlings and the method of indoctrination need to be aired so that all can see how close 1984 really is.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?Sort=U&topic=13535&forum=8' target='_new'>John Henninger Attorneys and Counselor at Law, Clearwater, FL


5
You really need to let the court know that her father has been molesting her, etc. This is why she did what she did to him and the car. She should not be punished for these acts.

The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor


6
The Troubled Teen Industry / Two 14yr-olds dead *Update*
« on: February 26, 2006, 11:50:00 PM »
Here's a reply to this story by someone from Panama City with the user name of Concerned Citizen. I asked this person what would be appropriate punishment for a child...


Punishment for me would be to be detained, unable to have the freedoms I am used to, forced to do things that I did not want to do and taken away from my job. The last time this happened to me it was called "jury duty".

I believe that detention alone is not good enough for criminals. They need to be required to work/exercise in some manner to pay back their detention as well as recognize that they don't get to decide what they want to do all the time. Unfortunately, if they don't agree and resist, we need to find ways to overrule their decision.

The thing that concerns me is that too many people are applying standards that they would succumb to, against the criminal trash that we should care less about. I'm not proposing we torture people in jail but we need some way to escalate the discipline to fit increasing resistance. It isn't like we can throw them in jail if they resist-- they're already there!

http://bb.emeraldcoast.com/ecforum/view ... 5&start=15[ This Message was edited by: nite owl on 2006-02-26 20:52 ]

7
The Troubled Teen Industry / WRITE LETTERS DEMAND RELEASE OF VIDEO
« on: February 21, 2006, 11:44:00 PM »
thanks for the letters -  :nworthy:

I give money for church organs in the hope the organ music will distract the congregation's attention from the rest of the service.
--Andrew Carnegie, Scottish-born American industrialist and philanthropist


8
The Troubled Teen Industry / Two 14yr-olds dead *Update*
« on: February 21, 2006, 11:18:00 PM »
I've been posting on this topic on a Panama City Newspaper chat area. You really need to read what these people are saying there. Nine to one are in favor of the treatment that Martin recieved.

Check it out - these people really need an education....

http://bb.emeraldcoast.com/ecforum/viewtopic.php?t=435


EXAMPLE:
Looking at the tape and being formerly (a long time ago) employed at the Boot Camp I see nothing wrong with what I saw. Three straight arm take downs, one knee strike and two events where a radial arm strike was used. We were not there, we do not know what that young man was doing, saying or anything else. This is monday morning quarterbacking at its finest. I know most of the DIs in that video and can assure you that there is a lot of experiance in that crowd. Those guys would not hurt a child if their life depended on it, but they will protect themselves. If someone had the balls to expose it you might find that this young "angel" was a local member of the "Bloods" and was known to carry a gun when confronted by law enforcement. Being listed in state databases as a gang member might be a bad thing, has anyone checked this angle? This guy was not an angel and his family is far from it. We will leave how I know this a secret, but I do. How come "Daddy" just showed up? What about that loudmouth Senator from Miami. Guess nothing go's on down there for her to run her mouth and sport her gaudy hats about. This is not about race, this is about a criminal going into the system and his body could not take it. JMHO[ This Message was edited by: nite owl on 2006-02-21 20:21 ]

9
People can and should write letters to the local papers and authorities in Florida to demand the public release of the video and other documents that detail the beating of the boy who died after being admitted to a Florida Boot Camp. If this place is paid for by the taxpayers then the public has a right to know what their taxdollars are being used for - MURDER OF INNOCENT CHILDREN.  

Here is some information about the public right to know act in Florida:
http://freeforallcandidates.com/RTKsunshine.htm

Following is the email for letters to the editor of the Miami Hearald:
[email protected]

Fax: 305-376-8950

Slow Mail

The Readers Forum
The Miami Herald
One Herald Plaza
Miami, Florida 33132-1693

If a flood of letters comes in more will be done.
Be sure to include your name, address, phone number and limit letters to about 200 words.

May your days be joyfully challenging and your words artfully true
-- Ginger Warbis SMA, `00


10
The Troubled Teen Industry / They got video this time
« on: February 10, 2006, 03:01:00 PM »
I'd like to suggest that people outraged by this write letters to the local papers and authorities in Florida to demand the public release of the video detailing the beating of the boy who died after being admitted to a Florida Boot Camp. If this place is paid for by the taxpayers then we have a right to know what our money is being used for.

Here is some information about the public right to know act in Florida:
http://freeforallcandidates.com/RTKsunshine.htm

Following is the email for letters to the editor of the Miami Hearald:
[email protected]

Fax: 305-376-8950

Slow Mail

The Readers Forum
The Miami Herald
One Herald Plaza
Miami, Florida 33132-1693

If a flood of letters comes in more will be done.
Be sure to include your name, address, phone number and limit letters to about 200 words.

If there's a worse idea going than locking people up for drug use, it's probably locking them up in close proximity to some tyranical altruist who wants to 'help' them with a problem that probably doesn't exist
-- Ginger Warbis
having had about all the help I can stand!


11
The Troubled Teen Industry / WRITE LETTERS DEMAND RELEASE OF VIDEO
« on: February 10, 2006, 02:58:00 PM »
. A right of access to meetings of collegial public bodies
is recognized in the Florida Constitution, Article I, section 24,
effective July 1, 2003.

2. The term "open to the public" as used in the Florida
Sunshine Law means open to all who choose to attend.

3. The Sunshine Law of public access does not apply
to candidates for office, unless the candidate is an incumbent
seeking re-election, Op. Atty. Gen. Fla. 92-05 (1992).

4. Section 119.011(1), Florida Statutes defines
"public records" to include:
all documents, papers, letters, maps, books,
tapes, photographs, films, sound recordings,
data processing software or other material,
regardless of the physical form, characteristics,
or means of transmission, made or received
pursuant to law or ordinance, or in connection
with the transaction of official business by
any agency.

5. Any agency document, however, prepared, if circulated
for review, comment or information, is a public record
regardless of whether it is an official expression of policy,
or marked "preliminary" or "working draft" or similar label.

6. Article I, section 24, of the Florida Constitution,
establishes a constitutional right of access to any public record
made or received in connection with the official business of
any public body, officer, or employee or "persons acting on
their behalf"?except those records exempted by law pursuant
to that provision or made confidential
by the Constitution. This right of access to public records
applies to legislative, executive and judicial branches of
government; counties, municipalities and districts, etc.

7. However, the Florida Public Records Act which
is key to application of the constitutional provisions
does not apply to the State Legislature or the judiciary.

8. Private agencies acting on behalf of public agencies
also are covered, but that is a complex issue.

9. Shands facilities twice unsuccessfully have
tried to argue in Court that they are NOT bound by
public access provisions. The public is entitled to records
of Shands facilities and about the University of Florida.

10. Almost all e-mails to and from public employees
are public records we can access.

11. Records of outside attorney bills received by
the City's risk management office for the defense of
the municipality or for the defense of its employees,
e.g. GPD officers, are public records subject to disclosure.

12. Any local law or policy which tries to add
conditions or place restrictions on public record access
has little value. State law has preempted any local
regulation on this subject.

13. Every person who has custody of a public
record must disclose it, even though the City or University
or Shands may have a designated custodian of public
records. That includes all employees with the power
to release or communicate public records.

14. Any person can inspect public records. It is
the policy of this state that all state, county, and
municipal records shall be open for personal inspection.

15. The person seeking the records does not
have to show any purpose of specific condition to
inspect public records and to copy them?at a reasonable
cost?5 cents to 15 cents a page.

16. Gainesville employees other than the Clerk's
office regularly violate the law by denying a request
to inspect and/or copy public records, because, say,
the City Attorney, or the Equal Opportunity Charter
Officer claims?wrongly?that the request "lacks specifics."

17. State case law indicates that most public
records must be produced within a reasonable time
of the request, usually no more than 48-72 hours.

18. An unreasonable delay provides grounds
for a legal action.

19. Any request for inspection of public
records can be made orally, as well as in writing,
by mail, or other communication, as well as in person.

20. The public agency does NOT have
to give information. The requirement of access
only applies to existing public records.

21. If a public agency requests an exemption,
the custodian must identify the basis for the
exemption including the specific law allowing
for the exemption?that is, allowing for a specific
exception to the rule of public access.

22. A city can cover up information specifically
protected from access, e.g. the addresses of GPD
officers, but it still must allow inspection of the rest
of the records.

23. Public records must be open for inspection?
not necessarily copying?without charge UNLESS
the nature or volume of public records to be inspected
requires extensive use of information technology resources,
or extensive clerical or supervisory assistance, or both.

24. Gainesville?other than the cooperative
Clerk's office?too often hides behind that right to charge
by claiming everything requires extensive use of
information technology resources, or extensive
clerical or supervisory assistance, or both.

25. Even so the costs must be reasonable
based on actual labor or computer costs incurred
by the agency. You are entitled to an estimate in advance.

26. A small charge may be allowed for each
page you want to copy?not to inspect! You are entitled
to inspect without charge except as I have noted above.

27. On your behalf, an attorney can petition
for a writ of mandamus to the local circuit court if
he or she believes that the records holder is stonewalling.
That attorney can get fees for such violations. An
individual other than an attorney proceeding pro se
cannot get fees or usually even costs.

28. Such petitions are given top priority in
terms of court response.

29. During this campaign, Gabriel will try to
answer any question about City/University responses
to public record act requests.

30. The Florida Public Records Act task
force may continue after the election. The time
has come to take back access to public information
from the Gainesville Sun and the Independent Alligator.
They have not made good use of the law to protect
the public's right to know.

Of course, please feel free to ask questions beyond
those I have proposed. These provisions are the key
to a renewed and reawakened public interest. Good luck.

Paid political advertisement for Gabriel
for Gainesville City Commissioner-at-Large (2)

Legalizing drugs would simultaneously reduce the amount of crime and raise the quality of law enforcement. Can you conceive of any other measure that would accomplish so much to promote law and order?  
--Economist Milton Friedman


12
The Troubled Teen Industry / WRITE LETTERS DEMAND RELEASE OF VIDEO
« on: February 10, 2006, 02:56:00 PM »
It's time to write letters to the local papers and authorities in Florida to demand the public release of the video detailing the beating of the boy who died after being admitted to a Florida Boot Camp. If this place is paid for by the taxpayers then we have a right to know what our money is being used for.

Here is some information about the public right to know act in Florida:
http://freeforallcandidates.com/RTKsunshine.htm

Following is the email for letters to the editor of the Miami Hearald:
[email protected]

Fax: 305-376-8950

Slow Mail

The Readers Forum
The Miami Herald
One Herald Plaza
Miami, Florida  33132-1693

If a flood of letters comes in more will be done.
Be sure to include your name, address, phone number and limit letters to about 200 words.

 :nworthy:  :nworthy:

History gives us a kind of chart, and we dare not surrender even a small rushlight in the darkness. The hasty reformer who does not remember the past will find himself condemned to repeat it.
--John Buchan


13
It's a billion dollar industry. He's made a fortune. The political donations are one reason the authroities do little to nothing to shut abusive programs down. They can litterally put children in cages, drug them, beat them and get away with it. Even Child Protective Services does nothing. It's outrageous. The children need to have more safegaurds to protect them from abusive staff and procedures. They are cut off from their families and have no one to intervene in their behalf.

Here's freedom to him who would read;
 
Here's freedom to him who would write;

None ever feared that the truth should be heard,

But them that the truth would indict.


--author unknown (circa 1914)


14
That's horrible. Have you ever reported any of this to the authorities in Utah? It seems like Provo Canyon School is a lot like the WWASP programs. At Tranquility Bay the administrator actually boasted that the longest a girl had been in observation "on her face" was 18 months. That's absolutely horrible to loose 9 months of life in such a way. How can they justify doing something like that in the name of therapy?

It (the Bible) is full of interest. It has noble poetry in it; and some clever fables; and some blood-drenched history; and some good morals; and a wealth of obscenity; and upwards of a thousand lies.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist


15
Look at all of that money. It seems like he uses all of his extended family members to escape campaign limits....

http://opensecrets.org/indivs/search.as ... =Y&Order=N

Every act of a delegated authority, contrary to the tenor of the commission under which it is exercised, is void. No legislative act, therefore, contrary to the Constitution, can be valid. To deny this, would be to affirm, that the deputy is greater than his principal; that the servant is above his master; that the representatives of the people are superior to the people themselves; that men acting by virtue of powers, may do not only what their powers do not authorize, but what they forbid."
--Alexander Hamilton    


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