Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on November 03, 2002, 08:24:00 AM
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How many people out there still smoke the herb,maintain their life well, and resent having to break the law?
I personally know a pharmacist who smokes.
2 doctors who smokes. A bunch of RNs.
A couple of lawyers, a VERY sucesfull electrical contractor, and an Army Ranger who smokes. Most of these folks don't like alcohol's effect but choose to unwind differently.
If EVERYBODY who smokes the herb instead of using alcohol walked into their human resources dept Monday morning and told on themselves it would put the system on its head. They would have to decide whether or not the war on weed was needed more than the employee.
Can you imagine the scene? I worked at one place where the owner tossed the "drug free workplace" policy because we lost too many good applicants over marijuana. We would interview, love em, and then couldn't hire them. Out of 20 no hires like this, with only one for hard drug (cocaine), we tossed the policy. It was not worth 10% off on workers comp.
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Keep in mind that one of the first things that resulted from the economic downturn early in the 20th century was a rebellion against prohibition.
Reason has a good article online right now about how the number of companies that are doing random on the job testing is falling, and how ineffective drug testing is in the first place.
Prohibition has never worked, and it will continue to reveal itself as a failing policy, and become far more obvious in its failure as the economic situation worsens.
The Bush Tax cuts, which overwhelmingly favor the top 1% of taxpayers, along with the huge runup in Federal spending on the military will result in massive budget deficits which will in turn force interest rates higher- tighening the debt markets and making it harder and harder for business' already saddled with huge debt loads to refinance their bonds and other corporate debts- all of this points to a period of massive deflation, and potential recession or depression.
And the last depression led to one of the most liberal periods in the history of the country. The greatest atrocities are almost always commited at or near the end of a war, and so I think the end of the drug war may well be in sight.
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...tend to make realists out of idealists.
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I agree with your points on prohibition. I also agree that when times are hard, the liberal view holds much more allure.
Your statement: QUOTE The Bush Tax cuts, which overwhelmingly favor the top 1% of taxpayers, along with the huge runup in Federal spending on the military will result in massive budget deficits which will in turn force interest rates higher- tighening the debt markets and making it harder and harder for business' already saddled with huge debt loads to refinance their bonds and other corporate debts- all of this points to a period of massive deflation, and potential recession or depression.
nts here ENDQUOTE
They said the same thing about Ronnie Ray-Gun. Partly true, but the early 80s-late 90s prosperity paid off that debt. The spending in aerospace, shipbuilding and defense put a lot of money in real workers real pockets. I certainly enjoyed that. I was one of 'em. That prosperity also came partly from low interest rates. Those rates never went so high because profits kept borrowing down by corporations compared to historical data.
Clinton continued the recovery by leaving economics to Greenspan and the treasury dept rather than to congress. The threat of deflation is horrifing, but very difficult to get into without the fed going totally stupid AND the banks imploding at the same time. Banks are not allowed to invest today as they did in 1928. They learned.
I hope history repeats on the economy/mil-spend thing, but I fear it will not. Our current president is getting us into a nasty fight for dubious reasons. It was worth the chance to bankrupt ourselves in 1982...the Soviets were very real, and both sides needed the Cold War to end. I am very glad they went broke first.
On taxes: the rich pay a lot more taxes than we do. Look at a rich mans taxes sometime. THEY PAY A LOT. Alternative minimum tax for the "richest" creams them at over35%.
Look at a tax return for a sucessful person making 150k a year, and they probably paid over 40,000 in taxes.
I don't want my sucess confiscated at a different %. I think it is time for a flat rate and dispel the notion forever of rich and poor pay different rates. Only class warfare results from anything "progressive" about taxes.
Bill
[ This Message was edited by: tampa survivor on 2002-11-03 13:57 ]
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On the other hand, I was homeless (lived out of a car) for three months, still managed to make eleven thousand, then the federal government wants eighteen hundred back. Couldn't they just leave people alone who make under a certain amount? Who can support themselves on nine thousand dollars a year? Couldn't they just say -- "hey, thanks for taking care of yourself this year, sorry about all the debt you ran up because of not having health insurance, shall we call it even?"
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Income tax has not turned out to be a good idea. You want people to do less of something (like importing major comodoties, for example) you tax it. But this country was in business for around 150 years without an income tax. Since we've started feeding our government on the gluttony diet, it's gotten all out of hand. I think we should attend to that problem first and a lot of other problems will attend to themselves.
Neither branch of the oligarchy will do that for us. Hell, they won't even invite anyone to a debate who wants to talk about serious changes like that.
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Antigen. The voice of reason again.
Less said is often best said.
Bill
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Frank Zappa use to run his presidential campaigns on the premise of eliminating the income tax, taxing the churches and their business entities, and establishing a national value added tax, with exceptions for food and energy.
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[ This Message was edited by: kaydeejaded on 2004-03-03 08:24 ]
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On taxes: the rich pay a lot more taxes than we do. Look at a rich mans taxes sometime. THEY PAY A LOT. Alternative minimum tax for the "richest" creams them at over35%.
Look at a tax return for a sucessful person making 150k a year, and they probably paid over 40,000 in taxes.
I don't want my sucess confiscated at a different %. I think it is time for a flat rate and dispel the notion forever of rich and poor pay different rates. Only class warfare results from anything "progressive" about taxes.
Bill
[ This Message was edited by: tampa survivor on 2002-11-03 13:57 ]
Sorry to go off topic here but it seems to me that a flat tax is a bad idea.
Two 10% tax scenarios: worker A making 20k and paying 2k in taxes. worker B making 100k and paying 20k in taxes.
Worker A is barely getting by and that 2k is sorely missed. Worker B is doing quite well and while 20k is a lot to pay, B is still left the 80k in salary.
What I'm trying to say is that the value of the money is relative to the individual's situation.
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Indeed this is why progressive taxation and income taxation is silly. Value added taxation is far more sensible, but the states really don't want the Feds imposing a national sales tax for fear that it will cut into their territory.
Also- on the Alternative Minimum tax- anyone with a good tax lawyer can easily avoid the AMT. A simple trust can generally keep assets and their income sheltered from the AMT. Even somthing as simple as investing in tax free muni bonds can take care of that.
On a side note- Bush and his economic team are currently getting ready to propose repealing the entire corporate income tax schedule and replacing it with a series of value added taxes. But you can bet that they will not be proposing such a plan for we lowly consumers and lower bracket people.
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I have some friends. We all have histories. One was a dancer on drugs, one dealt pot for a living, and one had a worthless marketing degree in 1992.
Broke every two weeks, blah blah blah. Paid s/s security taxes and medicaid tax. About 10%. It sucked. Needed that cash.
We got tired of being broke.
Went to school. One started a company. WORKED
None are now broke.
Now we pay what we paid before+ a whole bunch more.
Thanks for the reward for improving ourselves.
I don't want to own muni-bonds. They bore me. I want to invest in some new idea...the next yahoo/intel/whatever.
Oh well. Demopublicans run it all. Antigen was right.
Bill
ps I worked as an electricain for 7years and would rather deal with a stoner than a drunk anytime. The drunk will flip a switch stupidly, while at least the stoner will check 43 times that he is turning on the right breaker.
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Anyway, yeah I smoke occasionally, like a few times a year. I also drink alcohol on a regular basis, although I agree with others here that alcohol is a much harder drug than pot. But hey, it's legal.
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Weed is a wonderful thing.
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G 13, Northern Lights, White Widow, Haze, the list goes on from the indica to the sativa strain. Lets face it pot is great, straight only deprived us of our right of speech. Praise ganga
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As I fire off some $350 an ounce hydro, I say I must agree. To what I am not sure I remember....
the new anonomous
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We should have a get together at one of the NORML rallies.
Straightlings with spliffs....
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That would be funny, we all get together and form a big cirle holding hands. Sing cult songs like zippedeedoodaaa. When the parents come out, we spit in there face and fire up doobies and continue ranting these insane songs. Yipppeeeeee, hheheheheh. What a riot, we kick the livin hell out of Newton and then pick up one of those blue chairs and slam it over his face. I smoke more weed, mellow out and realize this is only a figment of my imagination, a dream, one forgotten.
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The so called progressive tax is based on some kind of fallacy. It like there is only one pile of money out there and the rich are rich because they got there first and took more than their fare share. This is not true. Most rich people I know are there because they are quite smart, work very hard and are driven by simple goals. Like stomping their competetion into the ground. My attorney once told my when I was threatened with a lawsuit, "Business is pretty Darwinian isn't it?" In the 10K v. 100K sinereo our current situation is that the 10K person pays no tax while the 100K (which the IRS defines as wealthy) person pay roughly 32% not countong FICA and State taxes. I don't know about you but I don't work my ass off to give it to a bunch of people to give most of it to the worst money managers in the history of man. I truly believe a flat tax would be fair and equitable to all citizens. The Dems. will never go for it as their largest voting block is the poor. Why give them an opportunity to earn more as the wealthy gain greater resources to invest in the industries and businesses that grow our economy. The only way a flat tax makes no sense is if the "wealthy" stuff their money in jars and leave it in the back yard.
CL
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$350 an ounce isn't so bad, new anon, it's better than what I sell my kind home greens for.
The old unregistered anon
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We really should have a STRAIGHT/KIDS grow-op/co-op by geographic region. A cooperative ganja effort. I bet there are several STRAIGHTS in my area than would love a taste of kind bud or would love to know where to unload some. There should be some kind of collaborative thing going on.
Just an idea.
The old unregistered anon
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Thats not my avatar, only was attached by responding--cool though.
The old unregistered anon
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I asked my dad if he got a tax rebate last year, he did, they got $600 back. All he did was put it in the bank. The Bush Tax cut shaved 1500 of his federal tax bill, and it too went into the bank.
People get rich by saving money, not by spending it.
Incidentally - those rebates last year had to be financed by the government issuing debt in the form of a special round of treasury notes- so we are paying interest on the 40billion that we borrowed to give back to people who mostly didn't need it.It will take ten years to pay off those rebates alone.
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On 2002-11-05 12:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
$350 an ounce isn't so bad, new anon, it's better than what I sell my kind home greens for.
The old unregistered anon
Dang, I'm lucky if I come home with that much at work per week!
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Then I guess your smokin regs...
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could you imagine the posts we'd have to read if lady smoked fine kind bud....
the new anon
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[ This Message was edited by: kaydeejaded on 2004-03-03 08:35 ]
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"In the 10K v. 100K sinereo our current situation is that the 10K person pays no tax while the 100K (which the IRS defines as wealthy) person pay roughly 32% not countong FICA and State taxes."
Not true. I made eleven thousand a couple years ago and owed eighteen hundred. I would have owed less if I had made ten thousand, but certainly not nothing. I went through the whole 1040 step by step. If I am missing something, and should not owe anything, please let me know!
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sweet Amsterdam, soon laws are changin out west. Here in Florida looks like we're stuck with the bushes. I hate bushes, I always want to piss on them when I see them. Kind Bud definitely rules and soon the laws will enable our cause with any hope. Time to toke some haze now, so see yall later and yes we can cooperate perhaps on this cause.
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I would think so... 11K is below the minimum level, I think.
I have always loved the phrase "got back" or "refund" This means the IRS over charged you by that much money and thus wrote themselves a short-term NO intrest loans TAKING it from your income even before you see it. I think if we had no "withholding" and had to pay our tax bill when it was due we'd feel the pain of paying the government for the dubious services they provide. We'd then see an outright revolt against the wasterels in Washington.
Try being self-employeed and having to file quarterly estimates and returns. It sucks and I am glad I don't have to do it any more.
CL
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We would soooo be in trouble. That would kill my buzz indeed. My lady, I'm glad you can't afford the kind bud.
For the sake of all.
The old unregistered anon.
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The dynamically changing price of dope never ceases to amaze me. In El Paso, I remember getting an elbow for $150-200 (regs indeed). Yankee prices at $50 an 1/8th is crazy. I remember paying only slightly more for an 8 ball of blow that weighed over at 4 g. People were so liberal then and are so tight today. What happened??
Dreammagician--had some white rhino kind buds recently, I'm certain you could appreciate.
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Are you from El Paso?
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No my sister used to live there and I spent 2 years there after my stint in the program. I live in Austin and am not the same guy as the other anony-mooses with the riddler avatar. Perhaps I should log in again to avoid confusion. Sorry.
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Dave!!!
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Clay is right. I have dreamed for years that every single American would have to write a check to the fed. Every month. End payroll deduction, and Joe Six-pack will see what the biggest bill in his house is. Taxes. I have two relatives who consistently write 5 figure quarterly checks; they said it beats being broke. Taxes are real for these self made entrepreneurs. No real dodges in tax law unless you get Rockerfeller rich.
BTW One of them smokes...to return to the thread previously scheduled.
Bill
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Clay, eleven thousand is not below the minimum level. Look at the tax table in the back of the instruction book. Unless a person can make all their income untaxable by claiming a lot of exemptions, even people who have under five thousand in taxable income are paying several hundred dollars in tax. I had to pay more that year because of the self-employment tax. I totally don't get the logic behind that. It's like the government is punishing me for finding work for myself -- and this was in an area where a lot of people just claim unemployment because no one is hiring.
You can have your own opinion about the flat tax thing, but consider my original post.
There is such a thing as dire poverty in this country. Once you get down there it is hard to get back out. I have never worked so hard as the winter I was the poorest. I just can't see how it makes sense to take more money from people who haven't got enough for the very basics in life: health care, food, and shelter. It seems to me that this country is rich enough to help people out of situations like that with dynamic new housing programs, health care for all, and truly affordable, inclusive access to higher education.
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"It seems to me that this country is rich enough to help people out of situations like that with dynamic new housing programs, health care for all, and truly affordable, inclusive access to higher education."
well that will cost a shitpile of dough.. and we already have those things you call for:
Walk into an er with a real problem and you get treated, admitted or both. Nobody takes your car or house if you blow off the bill.
I bought a 4 bedroom house at 25 with a very dynamic program...the VA. No money down, nice rate, all it cost was 4 fun and work filled years in the Navy. FHA/HUD for non vets.
Education is free if your really broke. I did an RN program with grants and scholarships, but work is required to get them.
I have found that many who say what a rich country we have are not expecting to write a check themselves. Feelings of altruism vaporize when the cost is borne oneself.
Bill
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Dire poverty in America has cable or satellite TV. Give that old saw a break.
Spend some time in Asia, PI,mid east,Africa or south america.
When you have smelled DIRE poverty, you will know the difference.
Bill
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There really are some dirt poor regions in this country. Appalatia is one of them. There are people who are so poor there is no TV, phone, indoor plumbing, nothing I require to be comfortable.
I still believe a flat tax would work. Exempt all single incomes under $15K then everyone else pays a reasonable percentage. As it stands currently, the IRS defines the "wealthy" at around $100K. My father pays aound $80K in taxes up until he retired. I have seen him have to take out loans to meet this tax bill. I know he worked hard for that money, or he was fooling around... I never saw him. This is ones of my issues with him.
CL
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I don't know where this is going? Very confusing. I would think that one could plant a seed, and even a strain from Amssterdam. Maybe this is a foolish thing. I beleive in life as I know it. I hate the fact that there is a demon. Perhaps, the seed of truth will provail. Maybe, even tkhe cockroach on my ceiling would agree that the difference in life is the pleasure indeed.
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On 2002-11-05 17:04:00, Anonymous wrote:
could you imagine the posts we'd have to read if lady smoked fine kind bud....
the new anon
Sounds to me like you and few others who do have some issues to work out and you don't want to deal with them. I can relate to that, but people, come on I quit that stuff a long time ago. Why do you chose to smoke it? just for a 5 second high? you'll spend that much money killing your brain cells! I choose to live in a world of civilized society.. sounds like you know nothing about that now... do you?
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On 2002-11-05 18:11:00, kaydeejaded wrote:
Ever notice they drug test the asshole at blockbuster but they leave the nero surgeon alone?? why is that... Did you guys vote? Dems across the board the lesser of 2 evils thing.
That's because 1) clerks at Blockbuster are dispensible, neurosurgeons are not and 2) H. Wayne Huizenga, founder and major stockholder in Blockbuster, is business partners with Bobby DuPont (the father of piss testing) and DFAF, manufacturors and distributors of piss testing services.
Vote Libertarian. Once in awhile, one gets elected (like Ron Paul in Tehas). Even when they don't win the election, the politicritters take notice of what sort of ideas get votes. Last time a minor party ran as many candidates as the Libs are doing recently, it was the American Socialists--Algore's daddy's party. And we can plainly see the influence they've had on both branches of the oligarchy.
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In the county right next to mine, some areas still don't have city water. BUT! they also don't have nosey code enforcers throwing stumbling blocks before anyone who wants to do something with their own property. Want to sink a well? Be nice to the guy with the drill rig.
In this county, there are a lot of crumbling old brick buildings. Every once in awhile, they'll finally take one down. What happens to the bricks? Usually, some guy in the next county hauls them off as payment for taking down the crumbling building and uses them to build onto a house or repair another building.
There is no money here. But no poverty among well liked locals. Outsiders like me, well we just have to prove ourselves useful before we have a shot at those kinds of breaks. All in all, I like this better. It's a system based on merrit instead of one based on spreading the bullshit equally among all.
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[ This Message was edited by: kaydeejaded on 2004-03-03 08:37 ]
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I lived out of a car for three months, did you read that part? I woke up every morning and drove seven miles to the bathroom, or, if I couldn't hold it, went in the woods. Is that poor enough for you?
Thank you for conceding that the flat tax should not start until over fifteen thousand. And I will say that I know that plenty of people in other countries have it way worse off, so excuse the use of the word dire. It did feel dire when I was constantly sick and frostbitten because I didn't have money for decent clothes and decent food. Frostbite hurts. And yes, I got TREATED for stuff at the hospital or doctor's, but the bills are still mine. Also, instead of getting the very best care, I got the cheap version, and the free samples they had, because how am I going to fill a prescription without any money? I had the phone cut off, and the electric. And, you most certainly cannot go into a dentist's office anytime without any money. Tooth problems can lead to other health problems.
I think in Appalachia, all the poverty is in one place, so it is easier to see.
I would have loved to be in school back then. I did not have on cent left over for classes, nor for the gas money to get there and back, nor for repairs to my car.
If there is such a great housing program in this country, how come so many people are homeless? How come so many people want nothing more than to be in school, but find themselves stuck just keeping up with the bills?
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There are lots of homeless because do gooders closed the mental hospitals and nobody pays for chronic mental illness treatment. Wandering loonies. Sucks.
Next group is drunks/druggies...refer to above as it is the same problem often.
A VERY SMALL percentage of homeless are able and willing to work, have gotten nothing but bad breaks, and will shortly work out of it. Short term shelters, programs like Salvation Army will help you out if you WANT it.
I still have no idea how I paid my bills and went to college full time. Part family, part govt, and private. I still say if you WANT to go to school and have aptitude AND interest, you will suceed.
Anyway, I'll shut up now.
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Don't you mean Republicans? Many, many public mental hospitals closed during the Reagan administration. Part of the down sizing. Typical republicans...what programs can't be eliminated via legislation get water down through budget cuts until they are totally ineffective. Remember bag ladies? They (the homeless) to a great extent are the legecy of our great president, Ronald McDonald; I mean Reagan.
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Speaking of Reagan, anyone from VA (or elsewhere, if it applies) remember when Dean showed the group a like 20-minute long bit of propaganda about Ronald Reagan? I think it may have been around the time that he was up for re-election...It was in the 'carpet room...' hell, at least we got to see a "movie" instead of having a rap...Alex
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Speaking of Reagan, there was a huge photo of Nancy Reagan on the wall at Backlick Road.
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On 2002-11-11 12:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
There are lots of homeless because do gooders closed the mental hospitals and nobody pays for chronic mental illness treatment. Wandering loonies. Sucks.
Next group is drunks/druggies...refer to above as it is the same problem often.
I think that is quite harsh. Tell me how many homeless ppl do you know or have ever met? There are plenty of homeless ppl because of economic problems within this country, with many more to come if the current prez appointed continues on his path. Just an FYI: for those that can not afford health ins. chronic illness can be a problem. Just the cost of chemical treatment alone is outrageous, and first you need to pay some one to write a prescription, and that is not alleyways cheep. There is more causes to becoming homeless then just being a "Druggie or a wandering loonies". There are mentally ill and druggies too, but what about those that are not? There are entire families that are homeless, or single parent families, where the bread winner has died or "split town" and the other is left holding the bag and the children.
I will concede that there are some homeless ppl that are perfectly happy. They enjoy their homelessness and wouldn't have it any other way. But that is a small majority and does not reflect the entre homeless population.
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I still have no idea how I paid my bills and went to college full time. Part family, part govt, and private. I still say if you WANT to go to school and have aptitude AND interest, you will suceed.
Anyway, I'll shut up now.
Have you forgotten, that some people have no family to fall back on or a family that is too poor to help, or that they are an outcast from their family, like some of the survivors I see here. So the family option for these people is out.
The Gooberment is selective about who they give their money too, and the schools/private sector are even more selective about who they will give money/scholarships to. And not all have an aptitude to attain a college degree.
The shame is there that is a big stigma to being homeless, and that once you hit that point it is VERY difficult to get back out. How many employers do you think are willing to employ a homeless person (who, if they could get the job, would not be homeless for long)? how many of those do you think pay above minimum wage?
While I have never been homeless, I have been damn close, and it wasn't easy to hold on and dig my way out. I can only imagine what it would be like to start from the bottom of the pit.
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I hate to burst your fuck the rich bubble but most of the patients were thrown out of the mental hospitals because of a suit filed by the ACLU. When you lose your patient load it makes no sense to keep the facilities open. I liked Reagan, He was responsible for ending the Cold War, Freeing Eastern Europe, the greatest boom in the economy the Nation has ever seen (Something George Bush I continued and Clinton lucked into). Reagan's one truly pathetc policy was the Drug War. It takes about two years for changes to show up in the economy. The crash George Bush II had were the direct result of the Bill Clinton, a legacy furthered by Enron and WorldCom. I do not believe in entitlements or redistributing wealth. Just my opinion.
CL
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Clay, you are the fuckin' man.
Bill
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On 2002-11-12 08:00:00, ClayL wrote:I liked Reagan, He was responsible for ending the Cold War, Freeing Eastern Europe, the greatest boom in the economy the Nation has ever seen (Something George Bush I continued and Clinton lucked into). Reagan's one truly pathetc policy was the Drug War. It takes about two years for changes to show up in the economy.
You have got to be smoking crack! Next your gona tell me Reagan was responsible for the theory of relativity eh? The only thing I got from trickle down economics was a wet path on my leg from the leak in my RAW ass. And no Regan was not the sing sole responsible for the end of the cold war (Money, or the lack of it was). And Exactly who did he free?????
Fact of the mater is this country was in a GREAT resession during the Regan/Bush and Bush/Quail years. The economy didn't start turning around until about 2 years into Clintons first term.( Ther's your two years buddy) And now 2 years into Juniors first (and only I hope to freakin GOD) term we have taken a major down turn. You could blame a bunch on Terrorism but that wasn't much, it was the Bullshit that followed.
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If you want to think about the quote you took...
Untreated mental illness IS the #1 cause of homelessness. REAGEN DID NOT CAUSE THIS. Clay is correct...the ACLU did it. Reagan just closed the hospitals with no patients...SMART MOVE. ACLU wouldn't settle to reopen them.
Next point...ETOH and drug abuse is more often SELF-MEDICATION. In short term "get on your feet" homeless shelters and real drug rehabs, PSYCH is the #1 treatment. The addiction/habit is secondary. Take care of the underlying mental problem and LOTS of your drug problem vanish.
Now, if you read my post again, you will note that PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY is a major part of success. I said you have to work the grant thing. Same with social services. MEDICAID pays for every single thing you could get. Better than private insurance. If someone is UNABLE to fill out the form, someone will fill it out for them. Financial aid at college is one form sent to fed. Everything else is right on campus. They make it simple enough. IT IS NOT SELECTIVE> You make it sound like rich white kids in POLO shirts driving BMWs get to the trough first. Get real, that is not how it works. The poorer the better. Rich kids don't get shit. Passing is the student's responsiblility.
In closing, I would venture to guess that I have known more homeless people than most on this board. I have worked in a psych unit. I took part in a VA program delivering and injecting schizophrenics (and other types too) with thier meds in thier residence so they wouldn't forget to come in monthly. Trust me, these are not places most people go. The program works. Its cheaper too. All they gotta do is stay in one place, or tell us where they moved.
I work neurology mostly now. For the last two weeks I have had a subdural hematoma patient. He hit his head when assaulted on the street. Homeless guy. He was drunk.
I know homeless people.
Bill
PS Sorry 'bout forgettting to log in...the post you quoted was mine.
[ This Message was edited by: tampa survivor on 2002-11-12 13:16 ]
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Sys Admin you are in need of some reading upon economic history for the last 25 years as your response to Clay indicates.
Reagan bankrupted the Soviets. Good thing they couldn't keep up with our buildup. Capitalism works. Socialism does not. PROVEN FACT. So much for Marx. Unfortunately he was wrong. Great theory, but will NEVER work. Look at nature. Communism only works for ants and termites. They kill and EAT the weak ones..
Read PJ O'rourkes "Eat The Rich"
Not everyone is cut out to make it.
Do you want to take Fornits and give it to a group of "under-privlidged" people who DESERVE a shot at biz ownership? Come on, you are so much 'Luckier". They never got a chance to learn HTML, Java,etc..
Hey that kid walking deserves a car. Give him yours? I bet you come up with a reason you deserve it more.
Think about it.
[ This Message was edited by: tampa survivor on 2002-11-12 15:55 ]
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I think it was the submarines ...
The Soviets had more than america and the maintenance of those things amounted to hundreds of millions of dollars PER YEAR.
So no, American presidents didn't make the USSR go away ... in the end _it's_all_about_the_money_.
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On 2002-11-12 13:33:00, Tampa survivor wrote:
Okay Ginger,
First of all, I am not Ginger! And Regan is not soly responsible for the down fall of the iron curtan. Well unless you are in the thinking that the cold war started in November of 1980.
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It would be helpful to see some hard references to all the claims made in this thread. Where do you get your information?
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If you don't think the mess the economy WAS in is not a direct result of Wild Billy's lack of leadership, then I can see no point in argueing with you. After all, a person who chooses to be that blind to reality is not going to be persuaded one way or the other.
Reagan knew the Soviet Union could not keep up the spending. He defined them as "The Evil Empire," thus giving policy to what Americans had believed for years. Bill Clinton had NOTHING to do with the Boom of the 90's. He was in the right place at the right time. He was too busy chasing interns to mess things up with entitlements and wealth redistribution schemes like most Democrat before him. Then he was too busy trying to tell America that a blow job wasn't sex. He was so successful at this that America, with the help of the elitist, democrat controlled media, completely forgot what the big stink was about. Bill Clinton LIED while under oath. You and I would be doing time in prison for the same offense.
Now if you'd think about the "GREAT" recession it was caused by the Nixon debacle and the inability of Carter to provide effective leadership. This was furthered by the fuel crisis and OPEC. My theory on this is America Tells the OPEC nations to come off the hip with the oil prices or America stops selling them bullets.
As for, "Who did he Free?" I notice only one Germany on the map now. The Soviet Union has proven not to be all that unified. Yugoslavia desintegrated and so forth. What happened in most of these nations is tragic, but these people are free to behave like assholes, to form their own beliefs and in a lot of cases to die for what they believed in (or just being in the wrong place). Now this is oversimplification is the extreme, but some of y'all may get my point.
I will not try to justify the stupid hatreds of the eastern Europeans though. It's like all our white supremcist assholes went over there and ran amok.
Last as far as I know, Ablert Einstien came up with the theory of relativity and I have never smoked crack. Damn near everything else, but not crack.
CL
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The Soviets have Never had more than Americans. The soviets put almost their entire economy into weapons at the expense of the population. America, on the other hand, built up a strong military while maintaining a growing economy, a reasonable level of comfort for most Americans, and continued to give huge amounts of forgien aid.
You tell me who had more?
CL
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De-institutionalizing demystified. http://www.jyi.org/issues/issue5/articl ... grimm.html (http://www.jyi.org/issues/issue5/articles/grimm/grimm.html)
Here is closer to home, last year in Tampa Bay area. This dumped HUNDREDs of people onto the streets. Send that fighting lawyer a thank you card:http://www.jyi.org/issues/issue5/articles/grimm/grimm.html
http://www.sptimes.com/News/040201/Tamp ... g_wo.shtml (http://www.sptimes.com/News/040201/TampaBay/Hospital_s_closing_wo.shtml)
You ask for sources. Thats a quicky. Go to the library and pick up a book on mental health history for more.
The military stuff is history. The cold war was a long process, but Reagan called it right when he said to build a 600 ship Navy and lets break the bastards once and for all. First man since Kennedy to have the balls to do that. They were both good men. Clay nailed it with the resource allocation..it was all they had to keep up, and the people ended it when there was no food to eat.
Sys ADmin you failed to respond to a single point. I'm sorry about thinking Ginger ran this site/hosting outfit/so forth. OOPSIE I guess you may eventually learn to stop hating all things republican JUST because they ramped up the drug war.
I HATE THEM FOR THAT TOO...but the war was started under FDR (A DEMOCRAT) with the original Controlled Substances acts, marijuanna laws, etc. Couldn't have those jazz players lookin at our white women..
Success is a matter of luck...ASK ANY FAILURE.
BIll
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Einstein actually published 2 theories of relativity. The theory of special relativity was published in 1905 and was verified experimentally. This theory predicted and proved the equivalence of mass and energy (E=mc2, length contraction and time dilation (the "twin paradox"), and the increase of mass with speed. The speed of light has much influence in this theory, while gravity has none. The theory of general relativity, pulished in 1916, had less experimental data supporting it, and gravity does figure into it. I think it was the Mickelson-Morley experiment which dealt with the bending of starlight as it passed the edge of the sun. Basically, the principle of relativity holds that, for any two observers, the laws of physics are the same, regardless of their relative motion. In special relativity, the observers cannot be accelerating; in general relativity, they can be accelerating (gravity being a type of acceleration, or change in velocity over time). Beautiful stuff.
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Boy, I dumped that data shortly after physics class was done. It is tough to have to really think that stuff through. Truly amazing is that somebody else actually conceptualized it originally. It is a beautiful mind which thinks THAT deeply.
Bill
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This is where you are dead wrong. Those on the top end of the tax scale do not pay the same percentage in taxes as those on the bottom. The avg. man on the bottom pays a higher percentage than his rich counterpart. Now, the dollar amount is higher for the rich man, but 5% of 65 million dollars, is quite a bit larger than 30% of 100 thousand.
5% of the world's population control 95% of its wealth. This is no accident. As for the flat-tax, you will never see it, though I too think it would be the fairest type of tax. Those who have the dollars oppose it, and they are the one's who control the politician's strings....not you and me much closer to the bottom of the tax-bracket.
Capital gains tax is a joke as well. This is where the rich really get many of their breaks. They are able to avoid taxes on huge profits, many times just the pofitss they make from initial investments dwarves your annual salary and mine. Yet, they avoid paying a fair tax on this gain. Instead you and I are taxed at rates which rob us of 37 cents of every dollar we earn.
A revolution was fought for much less than this.
Actually, 37% is a conservative estimate of the tax paid from the working man's dollar. Really if you consider every tax that is levied upon your income, it is closer to 46 cents of every dollar being corroded by taxes. It is sickening.
The tax cut that the average joe thinks Bush signed it to give him a break. What is 300.00 dollars anyway. What can you really do with 300 bucks? Not much. Do you know what that same tax cut averaged for those whose income exceeds 25 million per year? Give that some thought. Then think of all of those corporate execs who made the news last summer. Do you remember the salaries these bozos were reported to be pulling down. I'll give you a hint, every one of them that made the news made much more than 25 million just in salary, that doesn't even include the bonuses they were hauling in.
I wish that people would take a little more time to really think about what is really going on in this country. For that measley little 300.00 dollars they gave you back, it is going to cost you ten fold over the next 10 yrs to regain that strength in the country's surplus coffers. We couldn't afford that. No the 300 bucks for the avg. joe didn't hurt us too bad, it was the returns in excess of 10 million ofr each of the big boys. How many 300.00 returns could have been paid out of just one of those 10 million dollar returns? Is it starting to make more sense to anyone?
I'll do the math for ya......for every exec who got a 10 million dollar return they could have returned a 300.oo tax cut to 33, 333 and 1/3/ avg. citizens. Make ya sick yet? It did me, a long time ago actually.
People we need to wake up.
A flat tax rate would be wonderful in this country, but there is too many fat cats who would oppose it. Remember all the seats won 4 yrs ago in the senate and congress, witht he candidate running on term limits? Not a one of them stuck to it, they have all changed their opinions, of course they state that seniority is important so the politician can return more money to his districts. yeah...yeah....yeah
Well, I've heard enough. I have decided that I don't need their help to exercise term limits. I will do it for them, no incumbent get a vote on my ballot. The sooner more people would follow suit, the sooner we can take our government back.
God bless,
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It was an advance on what your gonna get in your returns for 2002. Geez........working man/woman - bend over again!
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I know Reagan was a great president. Did you know he supported the contras by bringing in drugs? One of my best friends use to be a custums agent down in Miami when Reagan was elected. They had a visa which allowed the presidential airplane to land without being searched. They smuggled the coke and pot in through the visa's they had. Presidential Visas. Reagan does not have althaimers, he was made this way so he would shut up later in life because he know too much. This is the god honest truth.
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On 2002-11-19 05:53:00, dreammagician wrote:Did you know he supported the contras by bringing in drugs?
I believe you, this was part of the Iran/Contra affair. Oliver North got to be the fall guy along with a dead or dying CIA director. This is also what financed Manuel Noreaga. I have already said I think the US drug policy is childish and imature.
CL
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yeppers