Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: 001010 on October 11, 2005, 09:14:00 AM
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I like survivor better than vet or veteran.
.02At present there is not a single credible established religion in the world.
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish-born English playwright
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hey there.
How about something entirely new....not survivors, not veterans, victims maybe...? nah...
hmmm....
Abductees?
Hell, I don't know.
My .03
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keep it "surivors"
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Surivor. That nails it.
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Vet(s) works for me.
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http://fornits.com/wwf/polls.php?show=47 (http://fornits.com/wwf/polls.php?show=47)
...it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds..
--Samuel Adams
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"Survivor"(despite pop culture t.v.) is way more righteous, and dignified. What we endured demands respect. i like "survivor" better than "vet". Walkin' wounded was better than vet, even cause i could see how even amongst us survivors there are those who are barely livin' yet.
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I didn't survive & Just coming back to life now. I have always grimaced hearing that word. "Well, you survived, didn't you?" said one counselor type person. No. Zombi.
The only reason you guys like "Survivor" is because you think they will film a video of all of us, Fame style, dancing to that Destiny's Child song.
Myself, I think I would choose Refugee, since Tom Petty has a much cooler song.
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Ssscphe-ewmmphhh...i don' think so...but that is fuckin' funny. :lol:
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Refugee is a much cooler song, for sure, but it doesn't have the same potential for a dance number as Survivor. Let's be practical here.
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Abductee is the most accurate.
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Children would be more appropriate.
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On 2005-10-11 13:20:00, 001010 wrote:
"http://fornits.com/wwf/polls.php?show=47...it does not require a majority to prevail, but rather an irate,
tireless minority keen to set brush fires in people's minds..
--Samuel Adams
"
http://fornits.com/wwf/polls.php?show=47 (http://fornits.com/wwf/polls.php?show=47)
Survivor is ahead. Our friends and allies in the Middle East and Europe will soon be subject to forms of intimidation by an Iraqi government bent on dominating the Middle East and its oil reserves,
Project for the New American Century (were they talking about themselves?)
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That's only because more retards vote on polls like that. You should have given them Alumni for a choice too.
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Fuck the poll.
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On 2005-10-14 18:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"That's only because more retards vote on polls like that. You should have given them Alumni for a choice too."
We're not all amumni though.
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Ooops!!
Where's exprisoner when you need her??
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[ This Message was edited by: Withdraw on 2006-02-28 21:48 ]
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Survivor.
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[ This Message was edited by: Withdraw on 2006-02-28 21:48 ]
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speak for yourself,Im nobody's victim.
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[ This Message was edited by: Withdraw on 2006-02-28 21:48 ]
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How about "victim of parent's poor decisions" I think that places the responsibility, or lack thereof, in the right place.
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On 2005-10-15 12:50:00, Withdraw wrote:
"Veteran makes me think of Military Veterans too much."
What is wrong with being like a military vet? Used up, wrecked and spit out in the Drug War. Read up a little on the history of the drug war, who got demonized and so on. It is and was a war. I like veterans. We were for damn sure down in the trenches, and we have PTSD and the like in common with military vets.
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How about "Conscripts in the Paranoia Army"?
To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical.
Thomas Jefferson
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"Lost and Found"
"Lay away"
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how about ex-prisoners? or has she trademarked the term?
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Lost and Found seems cool
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On 2005-10-14 22:08:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Ooops!!
Where's exprisoner when you need her??"
Ex-prisoner has become a Traitor I do believe.
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Gandhi
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:eek:
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Veteran.
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I no longer log into the old myspace thing that I named Damn Straight, so it is okay with me if people use it. The only thing about the Survivor bit is that we did'nt survive anything. We were forced along the whole way and forced to live act and do abnormal things for abnormal reasons. The reasons were abnormal for if the Truth were to be known, I am sure many parents (Remember Fred Massey) would have burned the building to the ground.
Calling myself a Survivor is like putting on a football helmet and running my head into a brick wall while running full speed and feeling good about myself for "surviving" the impact. No matter how you slice it, you still come up retarted. I like veteran, because it simply means we were there and experienced it. The simple fact that we are alive shows that we survived. We don't need no Helen Reddy anthems neither!!!!
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Truth or Consequences
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"We were for damn sure down in the trenches".
Copy that MuthaFuckka.
:skull: :skull: :skull:
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i also like the term "survivor" because i have 5 friends who didn't survive. This makes the term "survivor" so much more meaningful and piognant to me. As a survivor myself i feel like i am carryin' a part of Steve Mathews, Jim Brown, Tracy Andersen, Matt Hunter and Glenn Steepleton with me through my own life. Survivor is righteous. Rest in peace my brothers. i got your back.
::dove:: ::dove:: ::dove:: ::dove:: ::dove::
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Pirate, you have made the best 'case' for the "survivor" camp so far. I knew Steve, too..and kinda knew some of the others...
But the thing is, it would be one thing if these people didn't kill themselves. Ultimately, it was they that made that choice to end their lives. I don't think of myself as a "survivor." The word veteran is much closer to the reality of what straight is. We were drafted into the war on drugs in a sense, were we not? I'm gonna get high now. Peace, bro...take care.
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Jim was killed by a semi-truck on the side of i-95 down in FLA while changin' his tire. Tracy drowned in a flood. Steve, Matt and Glenn all killed themselves. Thing is i know how hard it is to live after Str8. i nearly killed myself too. There were months on end when i thought of suicide every day and the only reason i didn' kill myself was cause i couldn' leave my little girl without a daddy. i never even talked to anyone about it. i'm better now but i damn sure know the sufferin' endured. The way i see it even if Str8 cannot be held directly responsible for their deaths they damn sure made life nearly intolerable. i don' like "Vets". It's too generic. It carries no meanin' for me. No matter how this turns out i will represent as a fuckkin' mutherfuckin' God damned survivor!!
i know it's jus' a name but we have to represent. Dig ??
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i will never forget you brothers:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=#106114 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10198&forum=7&start=#106114)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=#108470 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10334&forum=7&start=#108470)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=#118335 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=10949&forum=7&start=#118335)
Peace.
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So have you guys decided what our song is yet?
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There is nothing any more "generic" about the word "veteran" than there is with the word "survivor."
Perhaps your tendency to cleave to "survivor" stems from the familiarity of it. I mean the fact that THIS forum was called that for so long, etc.
I think it's time for a change, and veteran is it.
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i see your point. However i jus' feel real strongly about the term "survivor" as it points directly to those who did not survive. And i feel that hard. Like i feel that so fuckin' hard.
Well...i really think "veterans" is pretty lame, but i, of course, will accept whatever the people decide. Peace.
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kinda agree with you on this----there were MANY who did not survive, and that is kinda implied in the term "survivors" being used to describe us and our relationship to Straight.
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somehow we have to represent our dead brothers and sisters.
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Military veterans lost friends as well. Veterans isn't lame, it says we were there.
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It really is a war.
Because What We Need Is More Killing
In April of this year, the Pinellas County, Florida SWAT team tossed three flash-bang grenades into a home suspected of nonviolent drug offenses. The devices woke up and startled one resident of the home, 3 year-old Kamau Walker. Shortly thereafter, cops put three bullets into the back of Kamau's father, Jarell Walker, as he lay prostrate on the ground, killing him. Cops contend Walker was reaching under the couch for a gun, though the only gun found was hidden in the cushions of a couch on the other side of the room. Eleven months earlier, St. Petersburgh police (also in Pinellas County) put 14 bullets into the truck of 17 year-old Marquell McCullough, killing him. Cops later conceded they had pursued the wrong man.
After community activists expressed outrage at the shootings, and the FBI launched an investigation into the Walker shooting, Pinellas County Sheriff Jim Coats agreed last May to revisit his department's policy of when cops are premitted to use lethal force.
Coats announced his new, revised policy this week. And the new policy actually broadens the range of scenarios in which cops can use lethal force:
There was some talk about putting wording into the policy saying a deputy should resort to deadly force only as a last resort, but a review of other agencies' policies showed that was not common practice, so it wasn't adopted, sheriff's spokeswoman Marianne Pasha said.
The new policy twice cites a U.S. Supreme Court decision to underscore that the "reasonableness" of an officer's actions should allow "for the fact that police officers are often forced to make split-second decisions."
It also adds a new situation in which deadly force can be used -- an escape.
And it takes away a class of suspect on whom deputies were previously told to avoid using deadly force -- such as people who had committed misdemeanors or nonviolent felonies.
Unbelievable. Or entirely believable, if you follow this stuff at all.
http://www.theagitator.com/archives/025727.php#025727 (http://www.theagitator.com/archives/025727.php#025727)
One does not have to appeal to God to set the initial conditions for the creation of the universe, but if one does He would have to act through the laws of physics.
--Stephen Hawking, English scientist
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i am a former p.o.w. of the drug war (sprngfld Str8, 85-87). i survived the war and i fight it still. When Steve Mathews died i was pulled out of group by 2 staff trainees and taken to the carpet room. i was on first phase at the time. They tol' me to sit down 'n' i did. The 2 of them faced me an' tol' me that Steve Mathews had killed himself. He was a friend of mine. i had seen him last about 2 months before, when i was copped-out and he was a withdraw. They waited for me to respond. i wondered why they tol' me at all. It was out of character for anyone on staff to even care. i was confused as i questioned their motives in telling me about Steve. They asked me how i felt and if i had anything to say. Since i didn' trust them at all i said "no" and they took me back into group and left me alone in the knowledge that Steve had killed himself. i sat in group and mourned to myself. i couldn' help but think about that today as i drove home.
i've pretty much spoken my peace on this, unless someone makes a new point.
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Since we don't agree on what we want to call ourselves, why not just call this forum "Straight Incorporated" and leave it at that? This would be in keeping with the rest of the forums on the WWF anyway.
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I still think Refugee is a cooler song than Survivor.
As far as costuming, I'm thinking "eclectic individuality", sort of the whole Fame aesthetic, only modernized.
Or, and this is going to sound crazy, but how about Beast of Burden? Give it some thought.
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Straight Incorporated. That's what it should be. Besides the dissent thing, there's a better reason for this name choice and that is that when ppl do a search on those words, this forum will be higher in the ranks.
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Straight Incorporated ?? i don' know... When i first found this forum i knew i was in the right place when i read the words "Survivors of Str8". "Straight Incorporated" jus' doesn't have the right ring to it. Sounds like a forum that could even be taken as pro-str8. i don' like it. You guys are killin' me with the name change thing. Seriously what was wrong with "survivors" in the first place ?? Has the license expired on our use of that word or what ??
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Man, you just can't stop pushin' it can you? Someone gives a reasonable, right-down-the-fuckin-middle solution to this stupid bullshit, and that ain't good enough for you, is it? ::hehehmm::
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Well, I don't plan on changing "Straight, Inc." anytime soon. That's the most well used search term people use to find us. It's a sticky problem, as 'straight' is such a common word and most of us never even knew about the DFAF connection or any of the most significant surnames to use to go looking for info.
I'd love to make it something like "Straight, Inc. Drug War Veterans" but some among us are still none too sure which side of that battle they're on, even today. And I honestly don't want to exclude them. I may strenuously disagree with ya'll and even feel a bit betrayed that you still support the invading forces. But I don't want to run you off. This is, after all, a culture war--a battle over hearts and minds.
The right of self-defense is the first law of nature . . and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.
--St. George Tucker, in his edition of Blackstone's Commentaries
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I think that no matter what, we should keep discussing this. Some people say too many cooks spoil the broth, but this video we are producing is bigger than any of us. You'll see. I'd really like to hear some more theme song suggestions. Does anyone have any background in lighting or, what else do we need, set design, procurement of props, that sort of thing. Send us a resume or give us a ring.
Okay, here's a move I'd like you all to work on at home. (Disclaimer: please don't hurt yourself.) What you want is a chair, - and yes, eventually we will be working with blue plastic chairs, but I think you will be pleased with the direction things take with this - the idea is to step onto the seat and then onto the top of the chair and manipulate it in a controlled manner to make the chair fall over backward, but you want the whole thing to be graceful so that you step right into the net move. Variations on this, but you get the idea. There is a scene in White Knights with Gregory Hines using a chair, and I think Savion Glover must have some of this in his rep too. Okay, just give yourself plenty of room, and don't pick a chair that is going to bust on you or anything, or that your feet could get tangled up in.
Just for brainstorming purposes, here are a few more song suggestions:
"We don't need no education" or whatever from The Wall
Something Kid Rock, I think a couple people around here can point out good ones.
All suggestions welcome.
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"next move", not "net move". DUH.
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Correction noted. I'll put you in charge of lit.
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On 2005-10-20 08:56:00, Frank Discussion wrote:
"Man, you just can't stop pushin' it can you? Someone gives a reasonable, right-down-the-fuckin-middle solution to this stupid bullshit, and that ain't good enough for you, is it? ::hehehmm::"
No. Sometimes i can't quit pushin' it. Sorry. i aint gonna not at least speak my peace, especially when i feel like i represent my dead friends. i'm sorry. i'm nuerotic about it. i know...i do see your point. i jus' have heaviness in my heart for some reason. i feel like i need to go to a funeral.
i didn' say it sounded pro-str8. i jus' meant it could be taken that way and i don' want to be part of anything that could be taken as in support of Str8. i am not afraid of anyone comin' on here and sayin' anythin'. i am here to watch over the truth.
i know you have been patient and tolerant of me.
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Frank D.
Sorry you were right. i re-read my post in response to "Str8 Inc." and i did kinda say what you said i said. i miswrote. i added 2 words("taken" and "as") to clarify my position. i'm sorry i was unclear.[ This Message was edited by: starry-eyed pirate on 2005-10-20 12:37 ][ This Message was edited by: starry-eyed pirate on 2005-10-20 12:39 ]
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This is gettin not right. i am done with this. i' made my point. Whatever the people or whatever Ant wants ta call it. Peace.
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peace, brother. sorry you are hurting. who knows maybe this musical production could really cheer everybody up. i'm on board with it. hey, give us your song suggestions, you listen to some obscure stuff.
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ex-prisoner...i can't think right now.
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Ah ...Fuck. ::dove::
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...[ This Message was edited by: Frank Discussion on 2005-10-20 16:38 ]
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THE MESSAGE
Grandmaster Flash, Melle Mel & The Furious Five
:smokin:
Need a copy?
Don't push me cause i'm close to the edge
i'm tryin not to lose my head
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I saw that. :em:
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On 2005-10-20 16:34:00, ex-prisoner wrote:
"THE MESSAGE
Grandmaster Flash, Melle Mel & The Furious Five
:smokin:
Need a copy?
Don't push me cause i'm close to the edge
i'm tryin not to lose my head"
Yeah i do. i don' have no Grandmaster Flash.
"Don' you know that this world is a ghetto..."
:smile:
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Metallica - "For Whom The Bell Tolls" from Ride the Lightning
Black Sabbath - "Into the Void" from Master Of Reality.
George Benson is good but not quite satisfyin' in this case. Peace.
::dove::
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On 2005-10-21 11:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2005-10-20 16:34:00, ex-prisoner wrote:
"THE MESSAGE
Grandmaster Flash, Melle Mel & The Furious Five
:smokin:
Need a copy?
Don't push me cause i'm close to the edge
i'm tryin not to lose my head"
Yeah i do. i don' have no Grandmaster Flash.
"Don' you know that this world is a ghetto..."
:smile: "
ex-prisoner, you are above 'n' beyond the call. Always comfortin' me 'n surprisin' me with your charms. It came in the mail today. i got it on right now!!
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On 2005-10-19 05:42:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
"i see your point. However i jus' feel real strongly about the term "survivor" as it points directly to those who did not survive. And i feel that hard. Like i feel that so fuckin' hard.
Well...i really think "veterans" is pretty lame, but i, of course, will accept whatever the people decide. Peace."
I agree with you. We are survivors, not veterans. Most of us that consider ourselves survivors did not choose to put ourselves in Straight, Inc. We were kidnapped and forced by people who were supposed to protect us -- our parents. But we are here, we are survivors.
I've been doing volunteer work with Katrina survivors even since the disaster hit, and then moved closer to home, meaning; they started coming here with nothing, needing help to get back on their feet after their lives were destroyed by a fate they did not expect to happen.
My point being; survivors means overcome or live through an unexpected disaster fate, and veteran an ex-military who served. I did not serve for Straight. I was abducted and forced to be brainwashed. If anything POW is more appropriate, but then again, those who my not fully understand The Drug War may take issue with that being used.
Besides, the peoples' votes speak the loudest.
http://fornits.com/wwf/polls.php?show=47 (http://fornits.com/wwf/polls.php?show=47)
Survivors we are.
Do not look back in anger, or forward in fear, but around in awareness. --James Thurber
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
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Most Vietnam vets were also conscripts. They also lost a lot more friends and a lot more of their own souls than we did. Granted, it was horrendous on an emotional level to have to either take part in breaking some little girl or boy who didn't want to discuss their private affairs for the entertainment of the angry mob or take a dose of the same. But did you actually have to shoot and fire-bomb people? Missing any limbs? How about Agent Orange poisoning and subsiquent denial of such?
I think we share a lot of valid ground w/ veterans of other aspects of the ongoing war state. But you can't seriously believe that we had it worse then the military vets, do you? The only way in which I think it's worse for us is that everyone automatically believes and at least tries to understand and appreciate the military vets, especially the POWs. And, of course, their families never told them to comply w/ their captors for their own good.
But, on all other counts, I don't think we got the shitty end of that stick. And, in the spirit of salvaging whatever one can from any experience, I think we might have a basis for better than average understanding of the plight of other victims in this war.
No school at all is better than a bad school. Nothing else in the child's environment is capable of such systematic destruction.
--George Dennison
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Antigen, that was refreshing. I was gonna chime in on the "Veteran" moniker, but didn't wanna stir shit. Call it what you want. A "Survivor" will utilize all assets to stay alive to a varying degree of success. That's what I did while in the program. Some others took a different line and carried more baggage. I remain nonplussed and don't give a shit.
Regarding the "Veteran" name change, I don't like it. You summed it up well. Jason
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Thanks J.
Basically, I just got really sick of "Survivor". So many affiliations I don't like. Storm survivors, for one. Seems kind of cold and heartless to throw that one around while people are still trying to find lost friends and family from NOLA. Then there's the Survivor tv series. Then there's the whole reality tv / actual synanon crossover fusion thing. Ok, that's darkly comical, but I don't think most people would get it.
Then there are the occasional tepid ppl, even an entheusiastic supporter once every blue moon. While I disagree w/ them on the point, I certainly want them to know they're as welcome as anybody.
I dunno. Got to thinking, talking about it and... well, I just like it better. It's just a forum name, for Christ's sake! We all call ourselves whatever we want. Personally, I prefer escaped POW. But that doesn't come anywhere near close to everybody who drops in here.
But go ahead and dare me, I will change it to "Conscripts in the Paranoia Army" just for shits and giggles.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one.
--George Bernard Shaw, Irish-born English playwright
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Hey I like how you got "Welcome to My Nightmare" on here! :tup:
I like to think all of us from the different McStraight franchises finding one another and for the most part being angry is a nightmare to the top nuts that were in charge.
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On 2005-10-28 10:39:00, Antigen wrote:
"Most Vietnam vets were also conscripts. They also lost a lot more friends and a lot more of their own souls than we did. Granted, it was horrendous on an emotional level to have to either take part in breaking some little girl or boy who didn't want to discuss their private affairs for the entertainment of the angry mob or take a dose of the same. But did you actually have to shoot and fire-bomb people? Missing any limbs? How about Agent Orange poisoning and subsiquent denial of such?
No way am I saying we had it worse. Just different.
It's your forum, I'm just sounding my trumpet, that's all.One thing we may be sure of, however: For the believer all pain has meaning; all adversity is profitable. There is no question that adversity is difficult. It usually takes us by surprise and seems to strike where we are most vulnerable. To us it often appears completely senseless and irrational, but to God none of it is either senseless or irrational. He has a purpose in every pain He brings or allows in our lives. We can be sure that in some way He intends it for our profit and His glory.
--Jerry Bridges
_________________
EST (Lifespring) '83
Salesmanship Club '84-'86
Straight, Inc. '86-'88
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Cool `nuff.
It is fear that first brought Gods into the world.
--Gallus Petronius, 1st Century Roman courtier
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I still like "survivors" best. But, it really doesn't matter. I am a vet from Straight and I survived as well.
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Conscripts in the Paranoia Army. I dare you.