Fornits

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An open discussion about the troubled parent industry

tell me how long Dr. Sisk was there huh? since you know so much....ok let me tell you how long..it was under 2 yrs....the school has been in operation for almost 11 yrs. HARDLY for YEARS as you put it. Things that happened in the very beginning of the school that have since been corrected have no bearing on the workings or legitimacy of the school today. And Deborah, I did not have access to their personal files, but I did hear every time a new employee was hired, and was verbally told what school they came from,knew where the teachers went to school, and employees themselves also told me. One of the teachers was a former classmate of mine in high school and coincidently came there to work. And I personally knew the upper counseling staff or most of them anyway and knew where they graduated from and they were all legitimate degrees. So dont paint this picture of the whole staff being undereducated or whatever..because it is simply NOT TRUE and very misleading. Junction you make it sound as if you had all kinds of inside information when in fact you were an intake person for not all that long. So how does that make you an expert either? It doesnt. I never claimed to be an expert of the goings on...only what I experienced personally. But you make it sound as if you knew everything and everybody and you didnt. If you arent Dr. B or Mr Gray then you dont know everything, so quit pretending you do. I dont pretend to know everything, only the facts that I personally know. Quite different from the picture you are trying to portray of yourself. I am no expert, but neither are you.

Just to clarify....and by the way, once again..my name is NOT Mrs. Gray..so quit calling me that...not only do I not refer to you here by your real name(which I know), you arent even using my real one LOL so just refer to me as SHH or bitch or whatever you want but NOT Mrs. Gray. That is someone else.

Deborah the community service was taking christmas meals to the elderly, chopping wood for the elderly and ill, and doing things with the children in the pre k programs in town. NOT punishment. The school also owns 4 buses that they take kids to events in. THey are green and seat about 30 kids each and say HLA on the side and each one has an A,B,C, or D letter. Why do I know about the buses? Because I went with my husband to Jacksonville, FL to look at the facility where they are made and where my husband purchased them. They were purchased I believe in 1998. they wanted to check out the size and cost and safety of them. Why spend money on buses if they dont want the kids off campus? Why dont you tell the truth to that person who asked? dont make it sound as if NO kids go anywhere. Dont make it sound as if parents dont see their kids for months. I saw hundreds of parents come to seminars and to pick their kids up for visits. I personally babysat 2 children who came with their parents to see their sibling. Maybe it is the kids own fault they missed the visit. Maybe the kids should be held accountable sometimes. NOt all these kids are innocent abused children. Some are manipulative and dont want to do what they are told. NOt all I know..but some are. Maybe your kid had a bad experience..I cant speak for that because I dont think I lived there when he was there. But I do KNOW what the kids did for community service and it was NOT punishment. Helping others is not punishment..unless youre a spoiled brat and think that way. I said I wasnt going to post anymore on this crap...but sometimes the truth just needs to be sorted out from the bullshit and over exxagerations.

The husband I am referring to that had to attend SEED in the 70s is not the same husband working at HLA. That is my EX husband who works at HLA. My new husband was a SEED survivor from Florida, and he already posts at the fornits survivors board.

He isnt in the hospital because the doctor told me he didnt need to go...DUH...of course he would be there if necessary..the child isnt running a fever and is watching animal planet right now, and wants lunch...hardly a need for a hospital. Gotta run....time to make lunch.

Robert educational consultants tour the school about once every 3 months or so....are you saying there was only one time you were sent to do something away from main campus while a tour was going on, the whole time you were there? Did you ever consider that maybe there was another reason for sending some students to another part? maybe to make some room for visitors to eat in the cafeteria? Oh thats right...youre right and everyone else is wrong. Never mind.

Ok Im going to attempt to answer your questions as best I can...here goes:

"First, who said that kids on restriction are still eating cheese sandwiches?"

What I was trying to say was that some of these posts were IMPLYING that the kids still eat differently from the others. But they dont and havent for a long time. For over 3 years now. And I believe the reason for that was that they were keeping the restriction kids seperated from the others and sandwiches were something easily transported to another part of campus.

"You said, ?I also witnessed kids making up stuff about counselors that I knew were lies personally to try to get out of the school?.
**Who, when, and how did you KNOW they were lying?"

I dont remember who or specifically when but I do remember SEVERAL circumstances where Students would accuse staff of doing this or that when it was later found out that the staff werent even on duty that particular time, etc. OMG teenagers lying! What a concept! LOL Remember I have one....he will be 16 in August, so I know all about teenagers and their behavior patterns...and most of it is to be expected of that age group really.No big shock there.

"**?Personal witness? for 4 or 7 years? Was ?7? and exaggeration?"

Ok this one is a no brainer and Ive answered it already...I was associated with the school as the spouse of one of it's main employees for 6 years and 8 months(almost 7 yrs)..the 4 years I referenced was the actual time I lived on campus...and to be specific, it was 3 years and 10 months that I lived on campus in the house next to the townhouses.

"Who is HLA licensed by? Please post the link that would prove this. They state that they are ?accredited? by two organizations. What does ?accredited? mean?"

These are the two organizations they list on their website and I believe one other something like the Georgia private school association or something like that..but not sure their specific name.GEORGIA ACCREDITATION COMMISSION & SOUTHERN ASSOCIATION OF COLLEGES AND SCHOOLS. Also "accredited" means: To recognize (an institution of learning) as maintaining those standards requisite for its graduates to gain admission to other reputable institutions of higher learning or to achieve credentials for professional practice."

 You said, ?But overall, I never saw abuse, or harassment, or neglect?.
**You admitted to knowing that the kids were given inadequate calories and variety while on restriction. That is neglect. There was obviously a problem with this, otherwise they would not have been required to change it. You were asked previously ?why HLA had to make this change?. You didn?t respond

I didnt see neglect or abuse or harassment, and I still dont feel that sandwiches, soup, fruit, juice and milk constitute neglect...they were fed and nobody starved to death or were malnourished. As far as why they changed it I dont know I wasnt privy to that information. But I do know they changed and the kids get the food off the foodline but I think they still go outside..but not sure about that.

"You claim kids haven?t eaten cheese sandwiches in over 3 years, and that?s how you know people are posted ?old? information.
Close perhaps, but my son ate them as recently as late 2001"

Well late 2001 was over 3 years ago...if they changed it 3 years ago that would be logical that he still ate them 3 years and 4 months ago?

"Would you subject your own child to that?? You didn?t respond."

Well since I dont feel that eating sandwiches and soup for a few weeks was neglect and my child needed discipline and part of that discipline meant not getting fried chicken or dessert or cheeseburgers for a few weeks then so be it.

And, ?Do you know the consequences of inadequate protein? Do you know how it affects one's ability to think and process information??

Yes I do know the consequences of inadequate protein...but since no child was ever taken to the hospital as malnourished as you CLAIM they were...it sure doesnt sound as if they were deprived of food so badly to lead them to affect their brains. Starvation does that...they werent starved.

And, ?Was there a dietician when your mil was cook? Or who instructed her on what and how much to prepare and how to determine if it was nutritionally adequate??

I dont specifically remember who set the menu for the school in the early days if they had a dietician or recommendation list..but my mother in law worked for literally years in a public school cafeteria and knew all about dietary needs for children so on her own I believe she was probably qualified..and being the parent of 3 kids and 8 grandchildren as well I am SURE she knows how to feed a family with children. She was no dummy thats for sure.

"You were also given this opportunity, ?Please show me any research that supports the notion that using food as punishment is a useful and humane thing to do. It's not even allowed in prisons?.You didn?t respond except to imply that restriction only last a week and is occasional. That is inaccurate. A blatant lie, or exaggeration, or second-hand information?"

Since I dont believe that they were using food as punishment, simply to make their meals more simple isnt punishment, I dont have to show research that supports that notion since thats not what they were doing. And I didnt imply that restrictions only lasted a week..they normally do only last a week...if they keep misbehaving or something else happens I understand they get another set of restrictions, but as someone else pointed out..eventually they get sent to Ridge Creek if they dont get the point. And since I wasnt a counselor, I did get information second hand...but everybody including you is getting information second hand..so you cant discredit it can you, because you werent a counselor or on campus either.

" You said, ?They werent even allowed to restrain the kids if they ran away off campus?.
**Are you implying that kids were/are not restrained at HLA or that they weren?t restrained when they attempted to run away? Would you be willing to testify under oath that you are absolutely positive that no child was ever restrained at HLA? Hint: you can?t by your own admission"

They were not allowed to restrain the kids it is a hands off facility...anybody restraining kids was reprimanded or fired....the ONLY time I ever heard about it being allowed...in the policy..was if a child was maybe trying to hurt themselves with a sharp object or getting ready to hit another child. It is a hands off facility and it is in their policy. Runaways could only be followed in a car and once they got off campus it was REQUIRED that they call the sheriffs office. They werent doing it to be mean to the kids..it was for their own safety. Any kook out there could pick up the kids on the main road and if they ran away at night there were bears and bobcats and coyotes that would make walking down a dark mountain road quite dangerous. I know all about the critters there was a bear that used to sit on my garbage can on my back deck and eat his midnight snack! But he eventually left for greener pastures.

"You said, ?Rudy and Jill were flakes, and were fired because of it?
You were asked, ?Rudy and Jill were fired because they were "flakes"? Ummmm.... wasn't there anything more substantial than that? What did they do that got them fired??

They were flakes..but I dont specifically remember the one incident that got them fired. I am sure I knew at that time but dont remember now. I just remember that they werent what the owner wanted for his school but that he probably didnt realize that at first. You would have to call up Dr B and ask him, I bet he would remember the specifics.

 "And that you knew nothing about the more recent headmaster who was there when you claim to have been, ?As far as Greg Lindsey, professionaly I dont know how he behaved. I knew him through living next door to him and his children playing with mine, so my experience was more on a neighbor sort of level"

Not sure why you dont like my statement here..I never heard anything specifically bad about Greg...and I really didnt know about his professional behavior because I never heard anybody complain about it...but I knew him more on a social level like at christmas parties..work retreats...cookouts with the neighbors..that sort of thing..and his son played with my kids and his daughter babysat a few times too. But he was there a long time so I can only assume he was ok as an employee and ok at his job.


"When a program is unlicensed, therefore unmonitored or regulated by the state, it is incumbent on the Owner and/or Director to ensure that the policies of the program are being implimented correctly and that kids aren't being mistreated. If Rudy was there two years, and acting inappropriately, what took Dr B so long to get rid of him? Apparently everyone else disliked him and knew what he was doing."

When a program is new...it has to operate a certain length of time to become accredited..and get observed...I remember it being accredited by an organization fairly early on but dont remember which one...and it was monitored by the state..the health department for one..and other groups as well...as far as when Rudy was fired...I am sure it was done as soon as Dr B felt it was necessary..but once again...you need to talk to him about the specifics...Dr B is extremely professional and careful and I bet you could get your answers there.

I dont know any of the kids now.....but I knew some then...I remember a kid early on named Brian who really got along well with my mother in law and father in law..good kid...very bright..and certainly didnt seem unhappy...and a girl named Devon who we talked to quite a bit..and I remember some kids being glad to be at the school because their homelife was so awful. I remember the school going out and buying extra christmas present to give to the kids on Christmas who's parents wouldnt send gifts...so they wouldnt feel left out...and they would special things for those students so they wouldnt feel bad...does that sound like an abusive environment to YOU?


"*Do you? Or would you be sharing second-hand information from people who are there and have a vested interest in presenting it in the best light? And elsewhere you divulge, ?I knew ALOT about what went on at the school, while I was associated with it. That was from 1994-2000. I can't speak about anything that may have happened after that because I wouldnt have known the details.? Isn?t the latter more accurate?
FYI, Some of the changes have been reported here by others than yourself."

No I dont know FIRST hand what is happening there...so yes its second hand...but so is what you are talking about...and the people that I talk to dont LIE. I am telling you what I know..and what I dont know....some things i know..and some I dont...I am not telling you anything that I dont know to be the truth.

**This is not a case of 'growing pains'. When a program intentionally avoids state licensing and regulations by claiming to be a boarding school, yet advertises to the public as a therapeutic facility... that just smacks of fraud. And if HLA were operating with a license and in compliance with regulations, many of the things that posters here are complaining about, wouldn't have happened. State regs provide guidelines for policies and procedures designed to prevent new facilities from making common mistakes. How arrogant to make the kids guinea pigs for their 'growing pains'.

First of all..if a school decides that a practice isnt worked like they thought..or its not getting results...they change it..its called improvement...and thats what all schools do..DUH...the kids werent guinea pigs..they benefited from any changes made I am sure...but nobody intentionally opened that school to make kids guinea pigs...and secondly..nobody intentially avoided regulatioins..they were trying to get organizations to accredit them so how is that avoidance??? another DUH and it IS a therapeutic facility...they have counseling and NA meetings and AA meetings and therapeutic programs and rewards and they do community service and do things for the poor in the area and the elderly.


**?Slander? is a strong word. Can you prove that anyone here has done so?
Positive changes are welcomed. I personally won?t be satisfied until they are properly classified as an RTC and monitored by the state on a regular basis; until kids there have reasonable access to a public phone without being monitored or censored; until kids have a right to contact their parents and say what they think- freely without fear of punishment; until their mail is not censored; for starters.


Slander is when you post "heresay" and things you arent sure about and detrimentally hurt someones reputation..and yes...slander is what I have seen some of you post...so its not a harsh word..its what I am seeing. And the school is monitored by the state..no school that big can be run without being monitored. And as far as having access to a public phone..do you know what happens when you give teenagers access to a public phone??? I do....they call their boyfriends and meet them out at the road and run away with them. Yes its happened..so dont tell me that wouldnt happen. You cant give teens who have a history of running away and getting into trouble access freely to a phone. It makes no logical sense. And if they were in that much fear of their lives I am sure they could find someone to tell their fears to...you make it sound as if not a single counselor or employee is trustworthy..and they have over 160 employees!

Ok theres your answers....feel free to PICK through my statements once again and find fault with my views.

And by the way if I dont answer as FAST as you would like...its not because I am AFRAID to answer..it is because I take care of 2 children, a disabled husband, a disabled father, a 101 yr old grandfather, and I also work fulltime, and I dont have alot of FREE time.


font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: SHH on 2005-02-19 14:40 ]