Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Mission Mountain School => Topic started by: kerryberry420 on March 13, 2005, 06:10:00 PM
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my name is kerry hambleton. i am 21 years old and am a student in Maryland. i was sent away 20 times from when i was 13 to 19 and have since been looking for a way to give back and educate people about the inner working of these treatment centers. i have been to lockdowns, rtc's, wilderness programs, rehab, and behavior modification boarding schools. i have been in expensive ones, coed, single sex, and more varities mission mountain was one of the many places i was sent to, however that is the one that stands out in my mind. first of all i want to tell you that the founder and headmaster (john mercer) does not in fact have a degree in psychology anything related to that, he majored in biology. in fact only a few of the staff there had any formal schooling in psychology the therapists did but the teachers, outdoor recreation coach, and daily living coordinator all ran groups too. now i will start at the beginning.
i was kicked out of school in tenth grade for basically just being an outcast. i had low self esteem, dressed "gothic" was promiscuous, drank at parties, and got in arguments with my parents. i do agree that i needed some kind of help and support to get me through that difficult time; i just don't think mission mountain was the right choice. my parents didn't know what to do with me so they contacted and educational consultant. she convinced my parents without help i was going to die, and then one night at 3am two strangers showed up in my bedroom and took me away. i was crying and screaming and asking where my family was and they wouldn't tell me. they took me to the airport in my pajamas and we got on a plane without me even knowing where we were headed we touched down somewhere in utah where i was then whisked away to second nature wilderness program. i still hadn't talked to my parents and didn't know what was happening and next thing i knew i was in the middle of the desert with a 50 lb pack on my back. (just for the record i really enjoyed second nature and got a lot out of it. the staff were really kind and supportive and helped me to regain lot of my confidence.) after being at second nature for 13 weeks i was told that i be leaving and going mms i didn't know anything about it except that it was in montana and they did lots of outdoor activities. which sounded fine to me, i love the outdoors. the first thing i noticed when i got there was that the campus was deserted. one of the teachers took me to a barn and outfitted me with my new mms clothes. sweatpants, hiking boots, t-shirt, fleece jacket, safety goggles, and work gloves. they took away my few belongings (clothes, pictures of my family, necklace, pictures of my very nice churchgoing boyfriend). i was crying and they yelled at me and handed me a backpack and took me out into the woods where the girls were on "intervention". a group punishment for the crime of "collusion" (girls having exclusive friendships and talking about their "old lives"). so immediately was already suffering for two girls mistakes. "intervention" consisted of waking up at dawn and clearing forest with hand tools and then carrying heavy debris to large piles to be burned. we would do this all day with a 3 minute bathroom break every three hours (the bathroom was an outhouse with five holes in it instead of one with no separation in between). we would work until it got dark and sometimes later (in the summer so it was pretty late) and then have to sit in a circle silently until john mercer showed up (he was always late, we would wait for hours without talking or getting up to pee). once he got there he would pick a few girls and yell at them all night. or we would all have to make lists containing all of our lies, transgressions, our "war stories", how we about the other girls, things we knew about other girls that they weren't telling, and then read them aloud and have everyone respond. he never believed that i hadn't done drugs and i got so tired of hearing him yell and getting in trouble for "lying" that i finally lied and said that i had. he accused one girl of being nazi and screamed at her until she was sobbing violently. i tried to stick up for her and tell him to stop but he wouldn't listen and made her tell her best friend she hated her for being asian. it made me sick. and i felt even worse that i couldn't do anything about it.she gave in eventually and said that she was, but she wasn't. anyway continuing about "intervention"....it went on for like 3 months. we weren't allowed to shower, write to our parents, or anything. when we finally got off of intervention i saw what mms was really like, not much different except we slept indoors. we lived in cabins, 8 girls to a cabin. we sometimes went to school in the morning on weekdays (on intervention we didn't go to school). usually though the staff would have us do work crew (chopping firewood, clearing forest, landscaping, maintenance, intense cleaning of buildings). or we would have to go work on the staffs houses. so we got little to no schooling. (i will say though when we actually did have classes our teachers did do their best to teach us and give us help if we needed it) and even when we did have class we wouldn't have any time for homework because of all the chores we had to do and sitting in group for hours on end. the other thing we had to do was outdoor recreation. it was like Gym class except outside and harder. i actually enjoy outdoor activities but this was too much. we would first have to run laps (run the whole time, no stopping, no slowing down) if you did stop or slow down, or cry, or throw up you would have to run more. if girls refused to run everyone else would have to run until they gave in and did it. if girls refused to do push ups everyone else would have to until they did. we had to get on mountain bikes and go on 12 miles rides up mountain without stopping. even if you fell off you kept going. i do see why they did this, to encourage perseverance and confidence, but i think they pushed too hard. as for daily life we woke up at 6am and went to breakfast. the dining room was set up in a large horseshoe shape and every girl had a "food partner" and "feelings journal". in the beginning of the meal we had to write our feelings about the food we were about to eat and again at the end. we all got the same food to eat and for condiments they had to measured out and checked by our partner to make sure we weren't cheating. we weren't allowed to talk at mealtimes except for a topic that one of the staff would give and we would all respond one by one. everyone had to finish all of their food and if someone didn't all the other girls would have to go outside and run laps backwards or shovel horse manure. some of the girls had eating disorders (i didn't) and we all got treated like we did. we weren't allowed to know our weight and we had to eat even if we were full. they made the vegetarians eat meat and forced them to run laps if they didn't. every cabin had chores to do both in the cabin and on the campus. like setting up for meals, cleaning various building, shoveling horse manure, vacuuming, making the bed, cleaning the bathroom, etc. all chores had to be done every day. if anything were wrong (a hair on the sink, dirt on the floor, manure in the fields, wrinkle in the bedsheets) the person or cabin responsible would be given a "callback", three callbacks meant you were on work crew on sunday instead of studying.
i don't want to make it seem all bad though. some of the staff there were really compassionate and caring and really wanted to help us. a lot of the outdoor activities helped me feel more confident and strong (unless i had to do them while i was sick or with a sprained ankle). i don't think mms was abusive in the traditional sense however I view so many of the things they did as wrong and hurtful. when my dad saw how we were treated there he pulled me out immediatly i just people to know what really happened there so other girls don't have to go through it and parents are informed of the real nature of the school. i wish i hadn't of taken my first post off because now you may question my credibility. but when colleen called me i felt like i did at mms was immediatly intimidated and lied about what i had written. i realize that that was wrong of me and have since e-mailed her telling that and i am now posting this again. i hope you still believe me. if anyone has any questions or comments you can e-mail me at [email protected]
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Kerry and Melissa. Thank-you so much for letting us in on your experiences while at Mission Mountain. I'm sure this will be invaluable to help parents when considering MIssion Mountain. It's only fair that they get all perspectives of the school, not just the one shown forth when visitors arrive. We appreciate your honesty about the good and the bad.
Kathy
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Hi Kerry,
Your post is very much appreciated, thank you!! :nworthy:
I agree that people should hear the truth. It takes courage to come forward. I commned you and anyone else who has the courage to come forward and tell their story so that parents can evaluate the situation and decide for themselves if this is what they truly want their child to experience.
And it might be good for parents to let their child have a say in where he/she goes, and IF he or she goes, depending on the circumstances, of course.
There are many things that need to change. Too many children are whisked away in the middle of the night to an undisclosed location, scared to death they are being kidnapped. :nworthy:
Whoever Colleen is (assuming she works at MMS from your post), she should feel proud that you had the courage to speak the truth.
Again, thank you. :tup:
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Kerry, would you happen to know the name of the edcon who refered your parents?
I'm a PATRIOT because I believe in the nations ability to un-fuck itself.
--Nihilanthic
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Dear Kerry and Melissa,
I am very grateful to you both for having the courage to post your stories on this forum. Until you came along it had been nearly impossible to gain any first-hand information about Mission Mountain. Hopefully your messages will allow parents to make more informed decisions about sending their daughters to this facility. It is good to hear that you are both doing so well.
Thanks again!
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yeah, her name was susan skeleton. but i don't think she is to blame at all. these educational consultants really don't know what is going on either. when edcon's would come to visit mms (or anyone else) suddenly we would all be on a "normal" schedule. we would wake up and go to school, then have ODR, then have group and go to bed early, or maybe have a treat like watching a movie. so they really see what mms wants them to see and nothing else. and mms would pick a girl who had been there awhile and was probably about to graduate to show them around because she would only say nice things. the thing with the edcon though was that she only talked to me on the phone for about ten minutes before she got my parents to ship me off. i thoguht that was ridiculous. she should have at least met me. yes i did some things that showed i needed help and structure, but there is so much more to me than that. these edcons should evaluate the whole person not just their actions. programs like mms do work fro some people, but for others (like me) they do more harm than good. like i am really intellectual (i'm not being conceited it's just a fact i have a 161 IQ) and i have never really known how to act socially. so when i acted out it was because i was trying desparately to fit in and be accpeted. i always wanted to please everyone i was around and i never stood up for myself and as a result have been drugged, raped, and even kidnapped for a day. sending me to a place where i was going to be yelled at and broken down just hurt me and made me feel more worthless. i needed to go somewhere where the staff celebrated my differences and helped me to develop my real personality. new haven was like that. i was sent to new haven when i was 17 as a last ditch effort befroe my 18th birthday to save me. and i loved it there. there was a level system so if you did the work you could earn priveleges like going to the mall, going to the movies with other girls, having your CD's, calling your friends., and things like that. you didn't get all of that at first but you could work up to it and when your therapist thought you were ready you could do it. you could have your own clothes, make up, pictures of your friends and family. you could eat when you were hungry, and have good home cooked meals too. we went camping, rafting, and rock climbing. we had horses, dogs, and lots of kittens. we had a pool and a rope to swing on into the pool. the girls there always seemed happy (well, most of the time). we felt like the staff really respected us and genuinely wanted to help. i think new haven is great and my family and i are still in touch with my therapist from there. and just so you all know i ran away from there on a home visit so i was not even the perfect student (i ran away to boulder colorado while my plane was laid over in denver on my way back to new haven in utah). but i liked new haven so much that as soon as i got to boulder i called the staff and told them that i was in colorado and would not be coming back (i was almost 18 and anxious to start my life) and we stayed on good terms to this day. so i hope this helps!
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I am sure you are right about the ed cons. However, they have no business holding themselves out as experts and getting paid substantial fees for doing what any parent could do by throwing darts at a map. A 20 minute conversation either by phone or in person is an insult the child as a person. It would take a qualified counselor MANY hours to render an opinion as what would be best for a particular individual, or even determine if a residential program is appropriate. I seriously doubt that any of these vultures ever tell parents that their child does not need residential treatment. It just goes along with the rest of this sickening industry, it's all about the money!
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Thanks Kerry. Yes, anon, that's my point in asking. I don't know how many edcons there are out there. But I think it might be worth the trouble to give them due credit for their work. Next time Sue Skeleton advises a parent to send their kid to MM, or maybe next time she swears she never has made such a recomendation, a parent who's paying attention can google her name and get a little more info.
Creationists make it sound like a 'theory' is something you dreamt up after being drunk all night.
--Isaac Asimov, Russian-born American author
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From my experience, and clearly everyone has their own,being taken away from my house by escorts unknowingly was no day in the park but it certainly didn't scar me. Perhaps my escorts were different, but when asked they could atleast tell me that I was going somewhere for treatment. I didn't like not knowing to what state, or what program I would be going to, and what would go on there but atleast I knew I wasn't being abducted. I knew that my parents knew where I was and regardless of my feelings of not wanting to be there I knew I was safe. Of all the girls I know who also were "escorted" to programs none have been scarred by it, and none have fears of abduction. Just another perspective for you.
Melissa.
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That's great. Maybe you could tell us which escort service they used because some of the kids were hand-cuffed, and threatened with pepper spray. They weren't told right away that their parents did this. I guess it depends which servcie you get. I am so glad for you and the other girls.
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I lived in the San Francisco area at the time. I'm not sure what the service was called and my mom doesnt remember but the escorts also worked at the local juvenille detention center.
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Any others out there who have had any experiences at Mission Mountain? ANyone know if they have a website? a friend of mine thinks a neighbor of hers (in california) was sent there about a year ago. the girl's name was sarah. anyone know her? they think she's still ther but not sure.
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I attended MMS, I am 26 now. I found the methods used to push for change were coersive at best, abusive verbally and emotionally- even physically if you include all the labor at it's worse.
Education was sorely lacking- it has taken me many many years to catch up with my peer, although perhaps I would not have attended school anyway- left to my own devices, unless sent to a place, perhaps like 'New Haven' someone mentioned- sounds nice.... Things went from bad to worse after I 'graduated.' From what I have heard from friend that attended MMS, some it was a learning experience, for others it has not. ( I think a lot of this also has to do with transitional period b/c MMS and the real world- going from being so isolated to living at home after only a few visits is a terribly difficult adjustment to make.)
At MMS they pushed the AA thing, and pushed students to 'admit' they had been abused and drug problem. truthfully I often would lie about things just to tell them something so that during group they would lay off.
During my time at MMS I was also dealing with gay issues, so that's another point that I felt was important to have addressed if the aim of the school was in fact to be helpful, but that was ignored and it was suggested that this was displacement of feelings, as if this desire to act out was like the desire to do drugs. Most things were considered displacement of feelings, actually. I was often told I was too f**ked up, that's why you're hereand that my own mind couldn't be trusted. Took about 7 years to get over that one...
The counselors were often so condescending I never felt understood or like I was allowed to question anything I felt was questionable, often downright objectionable. That was considered being resistant and would have extreme consequences. So, intimidation play a huge role in maintaing cotrol. Essentially I played dumb the entire time. I repeated word for word whatever they told us to believe and after 2 years began to almost believe it- I became a very good liar, unfortunately...
Like everyone else has posted, the work is brutal- chopping wood for all the counselors to enjoy as 'consequnece'/punishment, 'intervention' was awful, being cut of from friends whom you love is extremely traumatic, the pressure to go along with everything is unbearable...Funny, someone mentioned Colleen called them and they felt intimidated as they did while attending MMS- yea, she called me too a few years ago, I s'pose after I posted all over the web how awful and ineffective I thought the school was. At first the wave of fear washed over me, for a moment I turned 13 again and had been caught doing something I wasn't supposed to- expressing my true feelings and criticizing this program. I even began thinking, maybe I'm wrong and perhaps it's only me who doesn't think this program is harmful... then I thought, damn- i must be nuts, it's been 10 years since this experience and yet the feelings of it still linger. . . I returned the call but never heard back. And, I stand by what I feel. Too much time has passed for me too feel intimidated and for this to be anything less that a carefully considered representation of my position on MMS. I think this school and probably many others need to be better regulation. Years ago I would have liked to file criminal charges, but now I would like to just move. I feel strongly that their methods should, if it they are not already, be considered criminal...
EdCon need to keep their eyes open and watch for regurgitation of words feed to the student day in and day out- the words may sound good, but I remember when they would visit us at MMS I would pray they would see the desperation I felt inside despite the bs coming out of my mouth- but nothing...
Thankfully, however, the educational consultant I dealt with will not recommend MMS anymore, Jill Porter of La Jolla after she saw that the program did not work for me and another student who was sent there by her. We both left worse than when we arrived.
Needless to say, I would not recommend this school.
I can't resist mentioning that at about 70k a year, could be- probably is- more, these couselors are make a killing off desperate parents...esp considering upkeep, maintanance is done by students. When I was there we chopped wood for the counselors personal use and built paths along the campus, not to mention daily upkeep was all done by the students.
ON a slightly positive note- I did enjoy the outdoors, learning to winter camp and x-country ski, but think I could've gotten that out of a better program at a cheaper price.
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wow, you said it!!! it hasn't changed at all!!! except the price has gone up. my parents said it was about $83,000 a year, when colleen called me she adamantly denied that. it's true we did most if not all the maintenance of the the place, and not only on campus, we maintained the staff's homes as well. we were "giving back". you also mentioned "gay issues" when i was there there were a few girls who were obviously true lesbians (not just because they were in an all girls school for two years) and the staff just flat out ignored it or said they were displacing their feelings by trying to focus on other issues. the weird thing was NO ONE ever kissed there or anything. i have been in a lot of all girl programs and there was always an element of girl girl attraction (which in that circumstance is pretty normal even if they aren't "gay") but at mms they stressed how much we shouldn't be sexually active and told the girls who masturbated that they were sex addicts. i still feel a little twinge of guilt when i masturbate or have sex with my boyfriend. they also pushed the 12 step thing hard, i had never done drugs (i drank and smoked pot sometimes) but they didn't belive me so i eventually "admitted" to all my drug use and started working the "steps". then on homevisits i had to go to aa meetings (i was like 16) and be around all these drug addicts and alcoholics. well those meetings had the opposite affect on me.....i started doing drugs. subconsciously my philosophy was "i've done the time i might as well do the crime". the other thing that mms did to me was pretty much kill my abilty to stand up for myself and what i belive in. everyutime i did it there i was accused of being "defensive" or trying to "justify" so eventually i just shut up and did what they said. i belive this was one of the main things that led to my getting hurt in relationships, drug use, and being raped. i am just now learning how to stand up for myself again. but still if people talk down to me and stuff i always think "what did i do? how can i make them happy?" it's awful. i have a boyfiend now and this is the healthiesat reltionship i have evr had but it is still messed up, i have no idea how to interact with him in a "normal" way. mms took me about as far from society as i oculd have gone and i missed critical years of social interaction and dating and when it was over got throw in, i had no idea what to do. i think these programs should have like level which over a year or so introduce girls baqck into society step by step. like first have to stay on campus, 2 months later allowed to go out with staff and other girls, 1 month later allowed to go out with just other girls, 1 month later go to the local school, 1 month later allowed to hang out with kids from school, 1 month later allowed to date....etc. reintegration is key. anyway, any comments e-mail me [email protected]
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Thanks to all of you for posting about MMS. Someone very dear to me is currently a "student" there, so I am interested in learning as much as possible about what goes on way out there in the wilds of Montana. I have been suspicious of the secrecy, and now I am finding out why it is so necessary for them to keep a low profile. If parents knew what was happening to their daughters, the place would be out of business. They are trying very hard to appear more like a legitimate boarding school, when in reality they are every bit as bad as the notorious WWASPS programs. The more former students who come forward with their personal experiences, the sooner places such as MMS will be out of business. I personally would be thrilled to see their doors close for good. Please spread the word about the forum so others will speak out!
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Any chance of an e-mail address?
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Kerry, I can empathize with you as to your particular experience at what I understand people term "therapeutic boarding" schools. It is my understanding that there are many schools (actaully hundreds of them in the US now) that fit this niche. I presume that it takes quite a bit of researcch to find a particular one that would suite one's child.
What I don't gather from your experience is what was going on for your parents. What is their take on the school(s)? What was their life like as they progressed through you going to several schools? The implication is that, since you went to several schools, you might have been asked to leave several of them??? I imagine that that must have been hell for your folks.
It just seems to me that there are some folks that choose to speak out negatively about these schools (and don't get the impression that I think they are all good...there are evidently some good, many bad and several in the middle)but, they do not allow the "others" (those that had to bare the burden of the choice) to weigh in.
I would like to hear from your folks, or the guardians of you at the time as to the legitimacy and acceptablility of the programs. Certainly, it was your actions that precipitated the decision to have you attend a boarding school. Perhaps one should consider the perspective of the caregiver in this regard. I would suggest that someone (the one(s) accountable for you) were trying to save your life at the time....apparently it worked.
Evidently, if you are a 161 IQ, you are now able to use that intelligence to do good in the world, perhaps you should go from discrediting the school(s) to working with them to make their programs mopre apropo to the need.
If there were not thousands (hundreds of thousands) of children in precarious adolescent positions, we would not need the schools.
Cheers, and good luck.
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Hello, As I read your e-mail, I could relate to the frustration you may have in attempting to find out about particular schools. You mentioned Mission Mountain. Have you ever been to the school? Have you toured the campus and met with the administration, staff and students? If you had, you may feel differently. Have you actually spoken with the ownership? You mention that if "parents knew what was happening to their daughters, the place would be out of business." Evidently, that could not be further from reality. I understand that the school is full with a waiting list.
Why would you equate Mission Mountain to a WWASP school? Have you ever been to a WWASP school? I understand that they are "locked" facilities. Certainly Mission Mountain does not fit that description.
Perhaps you may want to speak to some of the parents who have had good or even excellent results from the school. Have you tried to talk to the parents of the "someone very dear to me?"
It sounds to me like you are poking at opinions and myths and have not actually tried to go to the source. Why rely on the few "disgruntled" folks that act negatively. Perhaps you should go to the school and work with the staff to see what it is really like.....you may be surprised at what you find.
Good luck with your very dear someone.
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Aw! Those poor, put upon parents! Well, as long as they're happy, who cares what happens to the kids? After all, they're all bad kids to begin with, right?
What did these poor, innocent parents ever do to deserve the difficulty of raising teenagers anyway? Oh yeah, they decided to have kids. ::noway::
I swear by my life and my love of it, that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
* - ~ Galt's Creed ~ - *
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On 2005-03-29 18:54:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hello, As I read your e-mail, I could relate to the frustration you may have in attempting to find out about particular schools. You mentioned Mission Mountain. Have you ever been to the school? Have you toured the campus and met with the administration, staff and students? If you had, you may feel differently. Have you actually spoken with the ownership? You mention that if "parents knew what was happening to their daughters, the place would be out of business." Evidently, that could not be further from reality. I understand that the school is full with a waiting list.
Why would you equate Mission Mountain to a WWASP school? Have you ever been to a WWASP school? I understand that they are "locked" facilities. Certainly Mission Mountain does not fit that description.
Perhaps you may want to speak to some of the parents who have had good or even excellent results from the school. Have you tried to talk to the parents of the "someone very dear to me?"
It sounds to me like you are poking at opinions and myths and have not actually tried to go to the source. Why rely on the few "disgruntled" folks that act negatively. Perhaps you should go to the school and work with the staff to see what it is really like.....you may be surprised at what you find.
Good luck with your very dear someone.
"
Perhaps you didn't read any other posts on here because I made one with lots of good points. As a student at MMS I did benefit from aspects of the program. My parents are very pleased with my having gone there because it helped me, however they are displeased with certain events that occured there and certain staff. No where is perfect, but when putting your children in the hands of other people you need to be able to trust they will be treated well emotionally and physically. That was not always the case at MMS. Of course there is a full waiting list, MMS seems very appealing and in ways it truly is. My mother was very impressed when visiting because a good impression was given off. I think that if there were a way for prospective parents to speak with other parents of past students they would be able to get the most realistic view, that way they can get an idea of how they may feel down the road. Don't discredit people's experiences. I know for a fact nothing Kerry said was untrue, I witnessed it all. People are different, and treated differently and have different experiences. This is not a matter of people acting negatively or taking things out on MMS, it's them sharing their experiences good and bad. Period. Just as people shouldn't discount the good aspects of MMS, no one should discredit people's real experiences that weren't very good.
Melissa Gower
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I wonder just who it is posting here, challenging these stories. I believe these girls and their experiences. Melissa supports Kerry's experiences and says what Kerry has told us is true, she witnessed it all.
It takes a lot for people to open up and come forward with their stories. They do it to share with others what they experienced so that others at least go into a situation with their eyes wide open.
Just remember one thing - anytime you put your child into the hands of a stranger, and anytime you relinquish all of your parental rights to them, the risk of abuse is there. It's just a fact of life.
Leave these kids alone. Haven't they been through enough already? Kind of makes you wonder who is posting here. Not someone who cares, that's for sure!
Parents are not all innocent in this. We live in a very complex time with a very complex society and families have suffered greatly. Many of these kids are victims of their environments and victims of their upbringing.
Troubled kids? Makes you stop to think how they became troubled in the first place. If they were living in a wholesome, kind, loving, environment with parents who were present in their lives, really present in their lives, how many would be "troubled?" I don't blame parents for everything, but it's time they take some responsibility - and I don't mean by sending their children away for someone else to fix them.
Kerry, Melissa, we believe you and commend you for coming forward to help others. Maybe it's time to find a better place to share your stories than here, where trolls are among us. If you don't know what trolls are, ask Ginger. She can fill you in.
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Running one of these places is a win win situation. Most teens outgrow their rebelliousness naturally, so if they are warehoused for a couple of years, will come out more mature than when they were sent away. It probably wouldn't matter if they were sent to live in an condo by themselves, a traditional boarding school or a place such as MMS. If this natural process of maturing occurs (which it usually does), the facility and their program takes credit and the parents pat themselves on the back for being so wise. If the child does not live up to expectations (and justify the financial investment), it's the child's fault....everyone else did their best. The biggest problem is that when these kids are finally released, they have missed a very important part of their maturation process which cannot be readily recaptured when they are adults. They have not learned how to interact socially or make informed decisions, because they have not been allowed to do so in a normal environment. Each of these children are individuals, not raw materials to be formed into identical products. They deserve to be treated with love and respect, not terrorized into conforming.
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MMS doesn't need any fences or locked gates, it's so far out in the middle of nowhere that running away is out of the question. Look up Condon Montana on a Mapquest....find Guest Ranch Road and judge for yourself! What are the chances of a girl or two making it to civilization before being caught, eaten or frozen? By the way, I do know the parents of "someone dear to me", and wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy. It's simply a matter of where she is being abused, not if.
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yes, to the person who is challenging what we wrote.......i was never asked to leave any program, i was never kicked out, i never even got in trouble at any of them. in fact i was always the star student, i always did exactly what i was told and excelled at it. fighting against the system at any of these places just makes for a longer more miserable experience. i left mms early because my father came out and visited for a few days on a camping trip, he was shocked at how we were treated. he was especially angry at how john merceer was ALWAYS late for groups or activities and when he did arrive he would pick a girl and basically yell at her. on that camping trip another gilrs dad was there too and he talked to my dad about how surprised he was at the way we were treated. the other girl (ashley) had been there about as long as me and we were both scheduled for homevisits a month later, we both went on our homevisits and our parents talked on the phone while we were home and they both decided to pull ashley and i out. so we never went back. mms did not save my life, my life didn't even need saving yet. as a child i was shy and didn't have a lot of friends. i was also ADHD and was always in trouble ion school for not paying attention and stuff. becasue of this in 3rd grade my schoold reccomended that i be sent to a therapist and put on ritalin. so i was, from then on i was always singled out in school as being "different" and that just made things worse. so in 5th grade i was put in the gifted and talented program at school for bright kids who needed a challenge, we got made fun of by the rest of the school and i hated it. i didn't have any friends and practically refused to go to school. my family moved right before 6th grade so i was put in another school, it was a private school full of rich kids with stuck up parents. i got in trouble there for kissing a boy on the playground and then hated that school, also i hated all my teachers and as a result was almost failing all of my classes. i never paid attention in class and definitely never participated. so for 7th grade i was sent to an "alternative school" for ADD kids who didn't fit into other schools. these kids were all artsy and "different". i loved it there, i started listening to heavy metal and dressing gothic, my therapist thought this was a big problem and told my parents that those kids were a bad influence (we had little to no supervision and the kids were just discovering that whole boyfriend girlfriend thing). so in 8th grade i was sent to another stuck up private school where i did NOT fit it at all, everyone made fun of me and i had no friends and was absolutely miserable. i hated everyone there and the teachers made me the scapegoat for everything that went wrong. i didn't particiapte in class, i didn't do homework, and they said i was "disruptive". which i probably was. i had a few friends out of school but i wasn't really allowed to see them ever. so one night i got on my bike and snuck out to see my "boyfriend" who was also 13 and had green hair. we accidentally fell asleep on a dock down the street from my house and in the morning i quickly went home to find my parents, my therapist and police at my house. my therapist told my parents i had run away and was convinced i was suicidal and had me put in a psych ward. (by the way i have NEVER been suicidal) and from then on it was all downhill. it was recomened that i be put in a long term inpatient program. the state paid for me to go to one that was DJJ affiliated, i had never been in trouble with the police, never done drugs, and never drank. i had smoked cigarettes though. in that program i learned about drugs and stuff like that. when i was 15 i left there and went back to normal school. i had a boyfriend and lost my virginity to him, i drank on weekends at parties and was on the cross sountry team. i got in a fight with a girl on day and was asked to leave the school. my parenst freaked out and got an educational consultant who convinced them i was addcited to drugs and promiscuous. (i still had never done drugs, oh and i was gothic) so i was sent to a wilderness program who convinced my parents i was goinmg to die without help, that is how i ened up at mms. mms made me say i had done drugs (i hadn't) slept with a bunch of guys (i hadn't) and say i was an alcoholic (i wasn't). they also told me i was a socipath and would probably end up being a serial killer. yeah right. i don't even like confrontations. so, you alreayd know what happend at mms. when i left there i went back to normal high school and had no idea how to fit it. i had been in programs for all of teenage years so far ( i was 17 at this point) i had no idea how to function, it was horrible and scary. i thought that if i drank i was "relapsing" if i did anything sexual i was relapsing, i was terrified. after the homecoming dance i had a beer and had sex with my boyfriend and felt so guilty afterwards that i felt like my whole life was a failure. it was then that i started drinking more and smoking pot, and taking pills. i dropped out of high school and a few months before my 18th birthday escorts came and got me in the middle of the night again and took me back to a wilderness program. after that i was sent to new haven, which i loved. but while on a homevist i accidentally fell asleep at my friend mike's house and when new haven found out they told me i would have to be back on "safety" level again and start the whole program over because they thought i had sex with him (i didn't). so when i was flying back to new haven my plane had a layover in denver and i said "fuck it" and got on a shuttle and ran away to boulder. i called the staff and tyold them i wasn't coming back (it was a month before my 18th birthday). i met a guy in boulder and moved in with him. then we broke up and i met another guy who was a dealer with a meth lab. i became addicted to meth and to get off of it started doing heroin. i was addicted to hard drugs for 2 years, and i have now been clean for 2 years. so, in conclusion. i did not need to be sent away to mms, or any of thsoe other places. in fact i blame the edcons, some therapist for my drug use and pain later. i became "institutionilized" i literllly could not function in "real life". those prorams ruined me. i still can barely have a functional relationship with my boyfriend, and i don't know how to hold a job. i missed out on key years of social development. i am very pretty, and fun, but i don't have any friends at all. so, before you judge me and think i am just lashing out because i am pissed at my parents or somehintg for sending me away, i'm not. i am pissed off at the whole industry for perpetuating all these uneccessary placements. the reason i am writing these things is that parents and friends of these girls getting sent away have no idea what their children are in for. and if they do go visit these programs i guarantee they will see only what the staff what them to see and nothing more. the girls will lie about what goes on there so they don't get in trouble. and it's not just melissa and i that think this, about ten other girls from mms have e-mailed me and thanked me for posting what i did. i guess i'll have to get them to post too so you'll take us seriously. [email protected]
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On 2005-03-30 07:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Running one of these places is a win win situation. Most teens outgrow their rebelliousness naturally, so if they are warehoused for a couple of years, will come out more mature than when they were sent away. It probably wouldn't matter if they were sent to live in an condo by themselves, a traditional boarding school or a place such as MMS. If this natural process of maturing occurs (which it usually does), the facility and their program takes credit and the parents pat themselves on the back for being so wise. If the child does not live up to expectations (and justify the financial investment), it's the child's fault....everyone else did their best. The biggest problem is that when these kids are finally released, they have missed a very important part of their maturation process which cannot be readily recaptured when they are adults. They have not learned how to interact socially or make informed decisions, because they have not been allowed to do so in a normal environment. Each of these children are individuals, not raw materials to be formed into identical products. They deserve to be treated with love and respect, not terrorized into conforming. "
In ways you are correct but I don't want the good people and good aspects of MMS to be discounted. Some people who are sent to MMS or other similar schools don't really need to be there. They have problems that can be solved at home, and by sending them away it only hinders them in finding a solution to their issues. Others, myself included DO need to be sent somewhere. I wouldn't have just naturally matured out of my problems. I was a serious drug addict among other things and without being stuck in a place where I had no choice but to be sober I believe I would have been dead before my 21st birthday.
I did however miss a very important period of my childhood/teenage years being sent away. I also missed a very important part of my childhood prior to being sent away. What normal 13 year old is doing meth everyday and having sex? I don't think the parents or programs can be blamed for the loss of childhood in a situation such as mine. There were people at MMS, namely Mike Finn who wasn't even one of the therapists but an outdoor recreation teacher who helped me realize the realities of life and what I would be faced with once leaving. Unlike John Mercer,the headmaster of the school, Mike gave me an honest view of the challenges I had ahead and the things it would take to adjust. John presented a very negative and skewed version of what "outside" life would be like which led me to live a very confused,naive year once getting out of the program.
My point is, there were girls other than myself at MMS that NEEDED to be somewhere like that, and who were able to take the good and ignore the bad and come out of the program for the best. Though there were things that happened at MMS that were totally inappropriate and hurtful, experiencing them has helped me turn into a stronger person. I now refuse to let people intimidate me and I always stand up for myself and say what I think. SO again, just because there are some people and some parts of the program that are just wrong others are not and this program isn't just making money off kids who would naturally mature and get over things. For some it's a legitimate need.
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I agree that there is a place for residential treatment programs for severely drug addicted individuals. However, there is never a reason for any child, regardless of their addictions or other perceived shortcomings, to be treated in a demeaning or abusive manner. Such treatment is certainly not theraputic for anyone and should not be tolerated. All of these programs should be regulated and overseen by the authorities.
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I'm with you, anon. There is no room for abuse, neglect, humiliation - any of it.
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Uh, yeah...that's like saying to a battered wife, "Well, let's not discount the positive aspects of your marriage." Who the fuck cares about the positive aspects when the negatives are so overwhelmingly prevalent?
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Truer words were never spoken! Let's all try to put our differences aside and organize to put these places out of business! We have tons of ammunition, in the form of lots of people who would testify. We really need a place to come together and make a plan.
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2005-03-30 07:57:00 , Anonymous wrote:
Running one of these places is a win win situation. Most teens outgrow their rebelliousness naturally, so if they are warehoused for a couple of years, will come out more mature than when they were sent away.
True. But even worse...
On 2005-03-30 11:45:00, kerryberry420 wrote:
my parenst freaked out and got an educational consultant who convinced them i was addcited to drugs and promiscuous. (i still had never done drugs, oh and i was gothic) so i was sent to a wilderness program who convinced my parents i was goinmg to die without help, that is how i ened up at mms. mms made me say i had done drugs (i hadn't) slept with a bunch of guys (i hadn't) and say i was an alcoholic (i wasn't). they also told me i was a socipath and would probably end up being a serial killer. yeah right. i don't even like confrontations. so, you alreayd know what happend at mms. when i left there i went back to normal high school and had no idea how to fit it. i had been in programs for all of teenage years so far ( i was 17 at this point) i had no idea how to function, it was horrible and scary. i thought that if i drank i was "relapsing" if i did anything sexual i was relapsing, i was terrified. after the homecoming dance i had a beer and had sex with my boyfriend and felt so guilty afterwards that i felt like my whole life was a failure. it was then that i started drinking more and smoking pot, and taking pills.
Kerry, this is so similar to how I felt and how so many other people describe their experience in the program. Intellectually, I never believed all the things they made me confess to in Straight. And I never believed half the trash the other kids said, either. But, after two years, it did effect me in just about exactly the way you describe. I never went through a realy heavy drug phase. I was too busy working to support my daughter, who was conceived less than a year after I was out. It's almost funny. All the old pictures I have from when my husband and all his friends first started hanging out at my apartment, I'm passed out on the couch. You'd think I was the biggest lush, but that wasn't it. After getting up early, working all day, biking to the daycare then home, doing dinner and all, I'd have one beer and go right to sleep. I might have developed a serious drug problem in those day, but I just didn't have enough energy for it. LOL!
The really tragic thing is that the people who run these programs and the parents who buy into them seem so eager to believe any horrible thing they can pressure you into saying. Though I was never in a program before Straight, my mom was constantly trying to find that smoking gun to prove I had started to become a druggiekid so she could slam me in a program and quit worrying about it. When I couldn't take that pressure anymore, I ran away to my sister's in Ma; hitchhiking from Florida. That, of course, became "sleeping my way all accross the country" :roll:
It's like Munchausen by proxy. Really, really sick! Hence the term "troubled parent industry", as I think that's really what it's all about.
That it is wrong for a man to say he is certain of the objective truth of a proposition unless he can provide evidence which logically justifies that certainty. This is what agnosticism asserts and in my opinion, is all that is essential to agnosticism.
--Thomas Henry Huxley, English biologist
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Parents, please consider this.
How many kids tonight are going to bed in strange beds, are sleeping in a room full of strangers, full of kids who wake up in the middle of the night screaming with nightmares and night terrors? How many kids are missing their moms, their dads, their brothers, their sisters, their aunts, their uncles, their grandparents?
How many kids would give just about anything for 5 minutes to talk privately to someone who they love? How many kids would give anything for a hot shower? For a chance to take a long bath? To lay on their bed talking with their girlfriends? To just be normal teenage girls?
How many kids did anything so bad to deserve being locked up and taken away from their families? Did they really deserve to lose touch with their lives? With the world as they knew it? Yes, some were heavily into drugs and they needed help.
Some would say kids need to be taken away from their environment in order to free themselves of their addictions. Maybe that's true. But what says they have to go to such extremes as to take these children far away from their families for years at a time, to take them away from normal life?
There are other safe options. If a child is truly drug addicted there are licensed programs, there are outpatient programs, there is therapy, there are other options. And if the child is in need of drug rehab chances are medical insurance will cover the cost of a safe program. So, why send them away to these places where we now know the possiblity of neglect and abuse is so high.
Knowing what I know I would never consider putting a child in any private residential facility. Period.
Kids need to fall down sometimes, pick themselves up, brush themselves off, and then keep going. Trying to shelter them from the world is not the answer. Remember what was said: anytime you sign away your parental rights you open the door to child abuse and neglect. There is so much truth to that.
I hope parents stop and think about what they are doing when they make the decision to send their child away. Read the stories. These kids are opening up their hearts and sharing their stories so that others do not have to go through what they have experienced. Please, listen to them. They have suffered and they need our support now.
Kerry, Melissa, there are plenty of us here who support you. ::drummer::
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I was the one who made ther post saying not to discount the good aspects. I think those of you who werent there are getting a skewed perspective. I'm not like a battered wife saying "but what about the good aspects of the marriage?". Let me make myself clear. MMS the school is not the problem,John Mercer the headmaster is. If they chose one of the other therapists that had been there to be in charge on the school the negative aspects wouldn't have been there for me. The abuse didn't stem from anyone but him. There is a difference between tough love and abuse. Tough love is needed at times, abuse never is. John Mercer claimed to use tough love but all he did was manipulate and intimidate. The other staff actually WAS proactive in helping the students recover from their problems.
I'm not concerned about people believing or supporting me,I'm just saying what happened and clarifying what I said and my stance on things. I appreciate people caring, but I want to make sure people see things for what they were and not put blame in the wrong places. I would never send my own child to MMS with John Mercer still in charge but if someone else who was actually capable took over I definately would.
Melissa Gower.
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Hi Melissa,
You posted "I know for a fact nothing Kerry said was untrue, I witnessed it all. People are different, and treated differently and have different experiences. This is not a matter of people acting negatively or taking things out on MMS, it's them sharing their experiences good and bad. Period. Just as people shouldn't discount the good aspects of MMS, no one should discredit people's real experiences that weren't very good."
I guess that's where people are coming from now, believing this is not such a great place after all. Kerry had some really troubling experiences there and you agree they are all true and real.
There is usually some good with the bad in most things. The important thing to measure is how good was the good, and how bad was the bad. What are the lasting effect of both.
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On 2005-03-30 23:51:00, Anonymous wrote:
I was the one who made ther post saying not to discount the good aspects. I think those of you who werent there are getting a skewed perspective. I'm not like a battered wife saying "but what about the good aspects of the marriage?". Let me make myself clear. MMS the school is not the problem,John Mercer the headmaster is.
Melissa, what about all those other people who stand by and watch as this guy abuses the kids? Why is it that nobody hears about it till some kid who's been out for awhile posts on some web-forum somewhere. How does he get away with it?
Impiety: Your irreverence toward my deity.
--Ambrose Bierce
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He gets away with it by intimidating everyone, students and staff alike. I know of at least one person who quit because she couldn't stand to watch the way he treated the girls. Unfortunately, there isn't much work in the area so people put up with him to keep their jobs. It's also a small town where few are bold enough to make waves.
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On 2005-03-31 13:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"He gets away with it by intimidating everyone, students and staff alike. I know of at least one person who quit because she couldn't stand to watch the way he treated the girls. Unfortunately, there isn't much work in the area so people put up with him to keep their jobs. It's also a small town where few are bold enough to make waves. "
Exactly. People HAVE done things but people often take stands that go unnoticed by most. Just because you didn't hear about people standing up to John Mercer here doesn't mean that they didn't. I am not backstepping in any way. I do agree with what Kerry said as I know it happened but you can't blame every person there for one persons actions. There were lots of things that happened there that were mistakes but I wouldn't at all consider abuse. Making judgements on how to deal with children is hard, and being a child and dealing with punishment is hard. While there were certain punishments that I don't feel helped they also were far from abuse. If you are judging people for not doing everything perfectly. I would like to see you go try it yourself. Even having been through it and knowing what worked and what didn't I don't think I would do everything perfetly. The only person at MMS who actually is abusive (atleast in my time there) was John Mercer,period.
Melissa.
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hey melissa! anyway, yeah everyone's experience at mms was different. i know of a few girls that would probably defend it to the death, but most girls thinks that a lot of things there were wrong. i agree with melissa about john mercer. john mercer seemed like a sadist to me, he seemed to like hurting people. and the other thing that really bothered me was that in group he would make the girls give really intimate detail about their lives. one girl was molested when she was younger and was practically forced to give every tiny littlle detail (where she was touched, how, for how long, how she felt, did she like it) in front of everyone. i can understand that she needed to talk about it, but in that much detail in front of 30 people, while getting yelled at seemed absolutely fucked up to me. and it wasn't just that. in our histories we had to write every little detail, down to people we kissed even. i have been in a lot of therapy and to a lot of programs and i have NEVER seen anything like that before and since then. a couple staff member quit while i was there and i know at least one of them quit as a direct result of johns actions. she was shocked at how we were treated and one day yelled at him and we never saw her again. the only good things i took from my time at mms are that i became close with a lot of the girls and am still in coctact with them, and........well i guess thats it. but again, everyones experience was different.
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I don't know - making a girl describe every detail of her sexual experience when she was abused seems abusive in itself to me. Also, I'm sure there are some aspects of the program that are good but like was said above, you have to measure how much good versus bad girls get out of it.
Some girls who truly abuse drugs and whose lives are going no where need intervention. I believe that. But what happened to going somewhere close to home, a place where family can visit, a place that does not keep you separated from everyone you love. A place that's monitored and regulated.
When people take kids out in the middle of no where and when there is no one keeping an eye on things, and when they are in a small community where people are afraid to talk or to lose their jobs, then it leaves it wide open for abuse and neglect. I think that's where everyone is coming from here.
I think people just want to know the truth.
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On 2005-03-31 15:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
I don't know - making a girl describe every detail of her sexual experience when she was abused seems abusive in itself to me.
Yeah, it is. It's humiliating. And it's especially sadistic when they use that info against you later. (unless, of course, you saw them coming, told them a lot of fake crap. Then you have a two in one private joke/spontanious reality check to help get you through) :razz:
But, when I was in Straight, I took part in doing that to other kids. Many of them, I'm sure, didn't see what was coming. To some degree, I was forced. And, as kids, we didn't fully comprehend the harm we were doing to each other. In fact, a good many of us believed (eventually) that what we were doing was not wrong. In fact, some people seem to believe to this day that it was the rightest, purest, most holy thing ever.
In asmuch as some of us believed it and others did our level best to give that impression, it's no wonder the parents sucked it up. What else were they supposed to think? It's what they wanted to believe anyway, which makes the desception even easier.
Not long after I and my dad got out and started talking again, he asked me why, if things had been so bad, I'd never told him before. I just looked at him like that was a dumb question and said "Well, you would have turned me in." He didn't argue.
My point in all this is that I'm not trying to place blame on everyone involved, at least not in a vindictive, retribution seeking way. But I do think it's important to understand the nature of the beast.
To paraphrase Michael Rivero, Everyone likes to say "John Mercer did this" and "John Mercer did that". But the truth is John Mercer did very little. It's the people who follow his orders w/o criticizm that actually did most everything wrong. And it's not like Mercer is unique. There's a whole long list of similar characters discussed in various forums on this site. So it's not just the employees and kids unfortunate enough to land up under their control. These people have the blessing and protection of our government.
My question is, how did we get into this mess and how to we get out of it?
Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.
--Winston Churchill
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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We stop fighting amongst ourselves and start focusing on a solution. This is a huge problem that will not get solved over night. People in the fight need to at least try to cooperate with each other and to respect each other for the work they are trying to do. Each one of us has something to offer if we would just put it to good use.
They have an army, so we need an army. We are in a mess. These kids are the victims of the mess. And we are the ones, like it or not, who need to get a grip, find a way to work with each other, and find a way to solve this.
We don't all have to like each other but we need to respect each other. Don't you think they feed off of seeing discord among the people who profess to want the same thing - to help these kids?
Let's not make their day. Think about it - they could be posting here stirring things up. People need to not feed into it.
I do believe that many people have no clue this even exists. We come on this forum and feel everyone in the world knows what we know. This has taken over many of our lives. We eat, sleep, breathe this problem every single day.
But so many people don't even know the problem exists. I know. I was one of those people. The only reason I am here today is that I was personally touched by children put into one of these facilities.
I have spread the word to everyone I know and guess what? None of them have ever heard of this. Some have heard a story here or there about a boot camp, but no one, and I mean no one, has any idea of the industry that has evolved.
I do not claim, in any way, to have all of the answers. I do believe that we need to inform others in our own communities of this problem in a professional way.
What about putting together a Power Point presentation, post it here, and let others use it to share in their own communities. There are many ways to do that. Local churches will often allow people to do a presentation, PTA groups, basically anywhere you can find an audience.
If people are interested I would be willing to put one together.
That is my 2 cents for tonight.
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AMEN!We all need to stop spinning our wheels and get organized if we are going to solve the problem. It is time to put our differences aside and start working together. We may never be able to shut down this industry entirely, but we can damn sure work toward getting some governmental oversight and enhanced public awareness. We need to force open the closed doors that have protected these places, and their owners and employees from public scrutiny for decades. The battle has to start someplace, so why not here and now?
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that's a great idea, but how? what can we do?
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(Apologies in advance if this is slightly jumbled, mid-terms ended this evening and I have slept little...)
I second what Melissa says, different people, different experiences. I also stand by my belief, as I understand the definition of emotional abuse to be, that MMS was an emotionally abusive environment. I would also characterize it a psychologically abusive and the staff as extremely manipulative. Education was the worst, I would consider that abusive as well..
I'll try and get some parents- mine included to post up here. I don't want to speak too much on behalf of my mom, but from our converstations I unserstand her feelings to be, essentially, that she was desperate and a sucker. My mom, I have known to be easily manipulated in general when she is emotionally vulnerable or simply does not have it in her, for one reason or another to absorb and analyze information she recieves...My mom was not the best mom, she made many mistakes along the way. My inability to convey my feelings about MMS since calls were monitored and parents warned about students trying to manipulate their way out made it impossible for her to get any real sense of my experience. As stated earlier, intimidation was an issue for me and I was too scared after a certain point of getting labeled as being manipulated and having to suffer the consequences. I kept my mouth shut.
One final comment before i sign off, I would be very curious to find out how many kids truly found MMS beneficial...Studies should be done. I find too strange that there's one extreme or another in terms of loyalty to MMS...more hostility where loyalty is expressed than logic though, hmmm...I found that to be part of the problem at and after MMS- limited freedom in the ability to express crticisms and not simply go along with eveything. Thanks everyone, I think this site is great!!
Kat
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I would happily participate in working toward reforms and such. Things have to change- at least at MMS.
Commenting quickly, Mercer and Mike Finn were the two founders I found to be extremely abusive- though I believe Mike is no longer there. Gary Kent would occasionally expressed dismay at their tactics through physical expression, but never did I hear him address Mercer or Finn verbally.
So, what can be done? Things have to change... Is it true that music is prohibited. It was regulated while I was there, but at the time was my only source of comfort.
I also relate to what 'Antigen' said about joke/private reality check. Being so duplicitous is so straining and made me feel crazy. Lying and hearing those lies repeated back to me conforted me in the sense that it kept the sense that this was all a fictional experience (in a way) b/c it was as I was not developing. I was hiding and repressing my core. Out of everything, that was the worst aspect of MMS for me.
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Could this be correct?
http://www.privateschoolreview.com/stat ... stateid/MT (http://www.privateschoolreview.com/state_girls_schools/type/1/stateid/MT)
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Music wasn't prohibited, however it was music chosen by the staff and I found it to be horrible,haha. Some of the girls played instruments and sang and in the van and during art class we were allowed to listen to cds sometimes. It wasn't that bad, I understand the need for limiting the kinds of music that could be played.
My experience with Mike Finn was much different, he was the person who was the most helpful and supportive of me. Maybe he changed, he did retire however. Apparently so did Deb and Gary.
Melissa.
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I don't think we were actually fighting awhile back. I think maybe we got pretty close to falling back to the conditioned response, though; for or again, us vs them kinda thing. We would all do well to get better at seeing that coming and not falling for it.
As to what to do about the problem, I really think the best and most effective thing we can do is to just get people to look critically and notice what's going on in these places. It's way out of whack w/ accepted norms of our society. But they're so good a deamonizing all critics that the discussion doesn't usually get that far. Government is not reason, it is not eloquence, it is force; like fire, a troublesome servant and a fearful master. Never for a moment should it be left to irresponsible action.
George Washington
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I thinks it is true. And here is how people can pay for it.
http://www.yourtuitionsolution.com/fami ... id=KNC-002 (http://www.yourtuitionsolution.com/family-solutions.asp?cpid=KNC-002)
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I AM THE PARENT OF A YOUNG GIRL THAT EARNED THE PRIVILEGE OF ATTENDING MMS. KNOWING WHAT I KNOW NOW ABOUT THE PROGRAM I WOULD NEVER RECOMMEND THE SCHOOL. WE WERE MISLED BY AN OLDER ADVERTISEMENT AND BY THE STAFF. I SAT IN JOHN MERCER'S OFFICE AND TOLD HIM THAT I DID NOT WANT TO SEND MY DAUGHTER TO MMS IF THE SCHOOLS POLICY WAS ONE OF BREAKING DOWN THE STUDENT TO BUILD THEM BACK UP. I DID NOT WANT MY DAUGHTER PUNISHED FOR HER CHOICES BUT WANTED HER TO BE IN A SAFE ENVIRONMENT FREE FROM DRUGS AND LEARN TO BE SELF CONFIDENT. I REQUESTED FAMILY THERAPY WITH OUR DAUGHTER AND WAS LED TO BELIEVE IT MIGHT BE POSSIBLE. WHAT A JOKE THAT BRIEF 15 MINUTE SCHEDULED PHONE CALL EACH TIME WAS. MY VISITS TO THE SCHOOL WERE ABSOLUTELY APALLING! BUT I FELT THERE WEREN'T MANY OPTIONS AT THE TIME. THE MOST ABUSIVE PERSON ON STAFF AT THAT WAS DEB'S HUSBAND MIKE. HE WAS COLD AND INTIMIDATING TO THE GIRLS. SCREAMING, YELLING, AND NAME CALLING. I FEEL THE SCHOOL FAILED NOT ONLY MY DAUGHTER BUT MOST OF THE GIRLS. MY HOPE IS THAT THE STRUCTURE HAS CHANGED. I HEAR DEB AND MIKE ARE GONE. THAT IS A PLUS!!! MY DAUGHTER HAS HAD A VERY DIFFICULT TIME TRUSTING PEOPLE AND BEING CLOSE TO THEM SINCE BEING AT MMS. SHE IS NOW 25 YEARS OLD AND STILL HAS NIGHTMARES ABOUT BEING THERE. MAY GOD FORGIVE ME FOR ALLOWING THAT TO HAPPEN TO HER. SHE IS GOD'S PRECIOUS GIFT TO HER FAMILY
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wow, it is great to hear from a parent. the parents of the girls there honestly have no idea what is going on (according to my mom). most of the parents, if they knew, i think would pull their daughters out. there is very little contact between students and parents, and contact is often taken away as a punishment or "consequennce" even if it wasn't their daughter that did something "bad" mms really stresses group consequences. which i think is unfair and unrealistic. in the real world the group will rarely, if ever, take the consequences for one idividuals actions. anyway, in response to the last post......when was your daughter there? i was there from 1999 to 2001. you should ask your daughter to read these posts and see if she agrees. i am sorry that your family had to go through all that pain, its great that you are still talking to your daughter. i know one girl who left mms in pain because of what happened there (she had to live outside in a tent alone for 9 months) and when she got back home she couldn't assimilate back into society and has had years of turmoil, her family doens't talk to her anymore because of it. she thinks mms had A LOT to do with that. and i agree. the staff used to tell my parents that if i didn't buy into the program, or screwed up when i came home that they should kick me out and not tlak to me anymore. while i was at mms they thought i was "keeping secrets" and so they cancelled my family visits, phone calls, and they wouldn't let me write to them. they had my parents write me a letter telling me that they didn't want any contact with me until i "got honest". i didn't see my parents for a year. so....i started lying. and then i got to go on a home visit. weird.
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Thanks so much to the Mom for posting, it would be great if more parents would join in these discussions. Their experiences are from a different perspective and document the long term effects of this program and others like it. Someone very dear to me is currently a "student" at MMS, and based upon my personal experience, I am sad to say that I do not think things have changed much over the years. The program is, and will continue to be, a reflection of the person who runs it.
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I do hope that other parents will post. Moms and dads. Fathers love their little girls too and if they are harmed in any way it would be nice to hear from them as well.
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Yes, it is good to hear from the parents. I have a question, too. Please don't take this the wrong way, but why did't you pull your daughter if you weren't happy w/ the school? You say there were few other options. What does that mean?
I'm not suggesting that, lacking the hind sight you now have, that there wasn't any good reason. I'm trying to tease out a little more of the parent's perspective. How did they go about keeping you hooked in?
If All it takes is an infinite number of monkeys with type writers, then how come there's no Shakespeare coming out of AOL?
-- Anonymous
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I have to agree with whoever said that different people were treated differently. While I was there (94-96) I saw Mike be a darling to some girls, the ones that he liked, and i saw him be totally abusive to girls that he didn't like, or that he thought were "needy". I saw him be particularly abuusive during group to girls that were younger (I would tellyou their names, but probably not a good idea, for privacy). I could also tell you the names of the girls that he did like, who were older, funnier). When it comes to John mercer, its hard for me to say, because he never really fucked with me...he picked his victims wisely. He knew how to make you cry at the dro of a hat, and I honestly think that he enjoyed every second of it. This was never my experience with him, but then again, iavoided himm a lot.These two men had the major impact on the girls there. Coleen? she didn't do anything. Deb? she only took care of the food and things... I think she herself has a major eating disorder. Gary was the only sane person there, but I think John andMike considered him a wimp, and never took him seriously. Since I left I did not keep in touch with anyone there for more than 1 month, but another girl has told me about the stuff that has gone on there, which if it is true, qualifies this place as unsafe for girls that are seeking therapy. I appreciate everyones posts; i come and check everyonce in a while. You guys are brave. Keep postin.
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I think the State of Montana should be ashamed of itself for allowing MMS and others like it to circumvent the law by calling themselves boarding schools. How many legitimate boarding schools do not allow students to use the phone (privately), receive uncensored mail or have visitors? How many real boarding schools use students as forced laborers to shovel horse manure, clear brush, build fences and clean staff members houses. I would venture to say zero! These places are not boarding schools, but private and very profitable juvenile prisons. John Mercer is not a headmaster, but a warden, and his precious young inmates are being brainwashed and abused under the guise of education. The citizens of Montana need to wake up and realize that because of the non-existant child protective laws and lack of regulation, their state is becoming the mecca for abusive facilities being forced out of other states.
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Definitely food for thought.
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Wow! I started reading these posts about 1 month ago and now it's turned out to be a very heated subject!
I am a MMS allumni and I remaining annonimous because I am afraid of the school! I will soon reveal myself, but I currently in the process of writing MY story first before I say anything without anonimity....someone was already threatned to be sued for posting their thoughts on the school! I have 2 children now and I do not want to put my family at any risk.
If you are interested in reading my story it will be done soon....please have patience. The reason why I am taking these actions is because I have been very thoughtful about filing a law suit against MMS. I have to be very careful about what I write so i am not portrayed as someone who just wants to take their hate out on the school.It is easy to identify someone in that way. When writing these things people can just blame you for being rebellious and hateful. I want everyone to know my full story before MMS,during MMS and after MMS. This will give everyone whole different perspective. and you can answer your own questions while reading my story. You can decide wether or not you believe If I was treated fairly and appropriately.
I think you will be shocked when you see my devastating history as a small child and the approach that MMS took to "heal" me, which was completely innapropriate.
Also, I would like to say that I went to school with Melissa and Kerry. For the record..they are not lying about what they are saying. This is not just a random viocious attack towards the school.
As a human being you know what is right and wrong...and the school is wrong. Even if someone girls say was some what good. it either is or it isn't. Everyone can be effected from any experience, so therefore,it could have changed anyone possitively or negatively.That is not the point of the discussion.
So over all the question is: Is Mission Mountain school, bad or good? with concrete evidence and information. This is something hard for people to identify because sometimes things were fun at that school..but look at it this way. If a person abuses another does that make them bad or good? in order to make a clear point it is important to state specific situations. Some girls will tell you that it was a great school, and it was in the purpose that it had, like a church...it is great, but just because it has a great purpose it doesn't mean that the purpose was served. People can say "well MMS was made to toughfen you up." yes true, but what lines were crossed?
Also was Mision Mountain School a problem as an entire school including all the staff?...If all the staff were witnesses to what ocurred there and let it slide they too are guilty. They had the option of working there. If you saw girls being treated innapropriately or felt that something was not right, would you continue on working there?
I would like to give you all some information to think about so you have something concrete to look at. It is about the headmaster of the school and a few specific things that he would do that I did not agree with.
-->The one who has main control of the school is John Mercer, he is the headmaster. He is definetly to blame for most of the things that occur and have occured in the school. While I was a current student at the school I would have believed anything John told me.
He could manipulate anyone into believing anything. If he told me that the sky was green I would have believed him, and if I didn't believe him he would used anything in his power to make me believe. I was told that I was a sex addict, drug addict, alcoholic, and I believed it.I am not any of those, but he told me, so I was.
John Mercer believes that he is like a "God". I am not saying this to make fun. He believes that he has control over powers in the world. He believes that the world revolves around him. that the sun comes out for him and goes down for him. He thinks that he had the right to make us wait for him for hours (while all the girls waited to receive a dose of therapy on "john nights") becase he is that important. Sometimes we would wait from 8:00pm-1:00am or more. What was he doing while we waited? I've always wondered. He was probably sitting in his living room watching T.V for hours or sipping a cup of tea making himself late on purpose...so when he arrived (like kings do) we would be so grateful that he atleast came. We should have been atleast grateful to even had the chance to look at him,as he probably thought.
We all waited together.. making a circle of about 32 girls..just sitting there restlessly for hours, not being able to talk to eachother. Sitting in fear of him wondering who was going to pick on tonight.
Why in the world do I need to wait for anyone extensive hours? When he met with us he would he would make it seem like he had just finished doing a great deal of paper work and research for our sakes. As if he had been thinking about us for all those hours. As if he had been putting so much thought in to us. Didn't he have to whole week to do that? We only saw him one time a week as a whole group, and we were only 32 or so girls.
How hard can it be? (and remember our parents payed him a great deal of money so it's not like he was doing all out of his heart) What was it $80,000 per girl/ year- so about $80,000 x 32? wow....maybe he was off spending all that money. I wish I knew the whole truth.
If any of you other allumni have anything else to add about this specific situation please do!! Let's give examples one at a time!like this one so we can all dicuss things orderly..(people won't have to look back and ask us over and over about different situations)This is the -WAITING FOR JOHN GROUP-NITES- SITUATION.
to everyone else...what do you think about this specific situation? would you have waited hours and hours for someone, who greatly benefits financially from you? Do they have the right to waste your time? What do you think about all this?
Please identify me as annonimous-Angel or Angel when you are replying to me. Thank you.
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Angel,
Thank you so much for posting your experiences. I hope we get a chance to see your complete story in the near future!
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hi angel! i have been waiting to hear from you. wow, you are a really great writer....anyway, i can't wait to read your story. talk to you soon. love, kerry
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I hope you all don't quit posting. I am interested in everything you have to say because someone very dear to me is currently at MMS. Please bring forth more information.Thanks!
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Does anyone know for a fact if John does not have his theraputic lisence? The headmaster of a theraputic school and does not even have a license? This in it's self is a serious matter.
I remember during John group night he would make clear diagnoses. He would tell us if we were sex addicts, alcoholics, drug addicts,codependent and some disorders such as PTSD. I believe that these diagnoses were extreme. Someone without a licence has no business diagnosing anyone. I was diagnosed as a sex addict, alcoholic, and drug addict amongst other disorders. Taking it seriously I took extreme measure to help myself such as working the twelve steps, going to AA, SLAA and drug addicts meetings.I was only 14 years old! I only smoked weed a few times, and drank alcohol about 30 times all together. I learned the name of almost all drugs during MMS "group" nights. Other girls as well as myself were forced to share their detailed sexual, drug, alcohol histories.I learned more about sex and drugs during these times than I had on my entire life! And there were some girls that had extreme sexual histories, I did not need to hear about their personal lives!
They would be telling stories about sexual experiences and every detail- example- he put his *^*&^ inside of me and we would have rough sex, sometimes he stuck ---- up me, and John would be like and then what?-----
some girls would have to share expiriences about being raped, molested, etc.. They would have to tell it in front of all of everyone. Why would that be necessary? If your daughter had a devastating secret such as being molested would you allow her share every horrific detail in front of 30 girls, a couple of other adults and a man who presents himself to be a therapist?
We were humiliated and I was being exposed to all these things I did not even know about in the first place! Even if you are a therapist John Mercer you went about things the wrong way! In a therapist and client relationship everything is to remain confidential! You forced us to say things against our own will infront of other individuals, and if we did't you threatened us! Some of us had to make up lies just to satisfy you and shut you up from embarrasing us! I wish I could remember everything because I would crush you with all my knowledge, but those memories aren't too far behind! I know what is right from wrong and I know that what you did was wrong! I am not trying to make this all up just to take out all my anger on some random individual. The school needs to change because you are not helping girls you are corrupting their minds!
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How would you feel if I supplied an e-mail address where you could all write (I know Kerry) and with her help we could sift through the good and the bad. Then once we're sure everyone is who they say they are we could decide how to proceed. Like a reunion, maybe? Now that could be powerful, and fun. Write back and let me know. I'll post this on the other threads too. I guess we have to start somewhere.
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The e-mail address is a wonderful idea!!!
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I'm pretty sure he does have some sort of theraputic license... at least, he produced it for my parents when they were interested in sending me to the school. I've talked to them a bit about it, said that they were sent all his credentials and stuff... I'd like to see it myself though, huh.
Sarah H.