Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones => Topic started by: HandsOutLight on March 14, 2004, 12:36:00 PM
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I'm out of the closet - I'm a former CEDU Therapist too. May the Great Spirit forgive me. I heard a boy hung himself again (recently) at RMA or BCA. Any truth to that?
A lady told me the parents fly in on a corporte jet. I knew a boy and family like that.
Does anyone know who it was? I would be very sad, but I must have the truth so I can grieve or let it go. :cry:
Light
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You used to be a therapist at CEDU? Please enlightten me on how you did your "therapy". I used to go to CEDU.
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Gosh, any way we can get an answer to the question about whether a boy committed suicide or not at one of these programs mentioned?
:eek:
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Well,
Thanks for the help in disseminating my case. You can indeed be enlightened. About 10 years ago a kid hung himself at RMA. They decided after that, that their liability would be reduced on such issues as suicide and homicide (as in the Riot at NWA) if they brought a therapist on board. They brought in this Guy, a PHD ****d Roy who tried to explain to the staff that certain kids had to be treated differently i.e. You couldn't just yell at kids with anxiety problems, you couldn't just have depressed kids doing writing assignments about how terrible they are, you couldn't put kids with broken arms (broken by staff while trying to escape verbal abuse in a Rap) on work assignments to re break their arm and continue to work with a broken arm. After 10 years they still listened to him, but largely ignored his advice.
When the State kept coming down on RMA BCA and NWA, because of charges or rape, sexual, verbal, abuse and racketeering, 9as cited in Spokesman Review articles on ?teen liberty.org. therapists began to be hired and worked at all the schools in a "Clinical Services Department" that billed the parents $120.00 for each therapy session.
Now each school has a clinical services department, each with up to 6 therapists to handle the consequences of the abusive treatment. When the program and staff drives a kid to be homicidal or suicidal, a therapist will be asked to repair the damage, failing that we contacted Dr Ulrich -the psychiatrist.
Dr Ulrich would give final approval if hospitalization was warranted. As he owned a private practice, handled the psychiatric needs of all the kids at the local CEDU schools, and was he Vice President of the Mental Hospital - NIBH (North Idaho Behavioral Health; he had a unique conflict of interest that was very profitable.
If the kids could be drugged enough to stand the CEDU schools, then they could be evaluated at NIBH and stay there for a long time at about a thousand dollars a day. then when they were drugged enough to come back to a CEDU school in North Idaho and survive the mental torture, he would see the kids weekly, at around 150 a pop for about 10 minutes, and often they would then be transported down to NIBH (at a high cost to parents) to see his therapists in Coeur d'Alene.
He would make money in three areas by being the psychotropic dealer and getting influence and financial gain in his practice, at CEDU and at the hospital called NIBH.
Regarding the therapy I used. It was multi-facetted - Cognitive, Lazerian, Rogerian Relational, Systems Work in Minuchin Structural Family Therapy and Whittakerian Family Psychodrama and Postmodern methods such as Narrative and Solution Based processes as developed by Kim Berg, Selikman, Duncan et al. I am mostly a Carl Rogers man ? I focus on the relationship and providing ?unconditional positive regard.? Consequently, often I just provided a safe and nurturing place for boys and girls to escape the cultish crazy-making tyranny of the program and power hungry untrained staff. Like others before me - I left when my physical and psychological life was on the line from experiencing the torture and treachery of me and the kids.
Adequate illumination?
Light
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Anonymity Anonymous (http://fornits.com/anonanon)
[ This Message was edited by: Antigen on 2004-03-18 16:24 ]
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One of the kids that is or was once at one of the schools died in a car accident - I have heard nothing of another suicide - thank God
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Great Quote from ol Abe Ginger - That's a keeper
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On 2004-03-19 20:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Great Quote from ol Abe Ginger - That's a keeper"
Ironic, isn't it? Good ol'e Abe was the first to officially suspend the Constitution to prevent states from seceding from the Union. In effect, the Civil War was an invasion of a neighboring country. But he was right, of course. Once that power has been assumed, here we are occupying 70% of the planet.
After all, who wouldn't prefer Middle Earth, unless they've been corrupted by a Ring of Power?
December 24, 2002
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Frequent poster
Joined: 2003-10-29
Posts: 66 Your CEDU and other Links
Posted: 2003-12-02 15:08:00
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http://www.nospank.net/boot.htm (http://www.nospank.net/boot.htm)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... forum=11&9 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=867&forum=11&9)
http://teenliberty.org/RMA.htm (http://teenliberty.org/RMA.htm)
http://teenliberty.org/ACAPN.htm (http://teenliberty.org/ACAPN.htm)
http://pub57.ezboard.com/fwevebeentherefrm7 (http://pub57.ezboard.com/fwevebeentherefrm7)
http://teenliberty.org/ (http://teenliberty.org/)
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=11 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=11)
http://teenliberty.org/Voices.htm (http://teenliberty.org/Voices.htm)
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On 2004-03-20 06:11:00, Antigen wrote:
"
On 2004-03-19 20:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Great Quote from ol Abe Ginger - That's a keeper"
Ironic, isn't it? Good ol'e Abe was the first to officially suspend the Constitution to prevent states from seceding from the Union. In effect, the Civil War was an invasion of a neighboring country. But he was right, of course. Once that power has been assumed, here we are occupying 70% of the planet.
And the carnage continues with Bush and an imperialist agenda trying to comtrol all the resourceds in the world and convert them to the slavery to the corporation that we call freedom.
After all, who wouldn't prefer Middle Earth, unless they've been corrupted by a Ring of Power?
December 24, 2002
"
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Americans will not escape slavery. We will be paying for the debt of this country for many generations to come through inflation and taxation. Working more hours for less money is not my idea of freedom.
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Well,
Thanks for the help in disseminating my case. You can indeed be enlightened. About 10 years ago a kid hung himself at RMA. They decided after that, that their liability would be reduced on such issues as suicide and homicide (as in the Riot at NWA) if they brought a therapist on board. They brought in this Guy, a PHD ****d Roy who tried to explain to the staff that certain kids had to be treated differently i.e. You couldn't just yell at kids with anxiety problems, you couldn't just have depressed kids doing writing assignments about how terrible they are, you couldn't put kids with broken arms (broken by staff while trying to escape verbal abuse in a Rap) on work assignments to re break their arm and continue to work with a broken arm. After 10 years they still listened to him, but largely ignored his advice.
When the State kept coming down on RMA BCA and NWA, because of charges or rape, sexual, verbal, abuse and racketeering, 9as cited in Spokesman Review articles on ?teen liberty.org. therapists began to be hired and worked at all the schools in a "Clinical Services Department" that billed the parents $120.00 for each therapy session.
Now each school has a clinical services department, each with up to 6 therapists to handle the consequences of the abusive treatment. When the program and staff drives a kid to be homicidal or suicidal, a therapist will be asked to repair the damage, failing that we contacted Dr Ulrich -the psychiatrist.
Dr Ulrich would give final approval if hospitalization was warranted. As he owned a private practice, handled the psychiatric needs of all the kids at the local CEDU schools, and was he Vice President of the Mental Hospital - NIBH (North Idaho Behavioral Health; he had a unique conflict of interest that was very profitable.
If the kids could be drugged enough to stand the CEDU schools, then they could be evaluated at NIBH and stay there for a long time at about a thousand dollars a day. then when they were drugged enough to come back to a CEDU school in North Idaho and survive the mental torture, he would see the kids weekly, at around 150 a pop for about 10 minutes, and often they would then be transported down to NIBH (at a high cost to parents) to see his therapists in Coeur d'Alene.
He would make money in three areas by being the psychotropic dealer and getting influence and financial gain in his practice, at CEDU and at the hospital called NIBH.
Regarding the therapy I used. It was multi-facetted - Cognitive, Lazerian, Rogerian Relational, Systems Work in Minuchin Structural Family Therapy and Whittakerian Family Psychodrama and Postmodern methods such as Narrative and Solution Based processes as developed by Kim Berg, Selikman, Duncan et al. I am mostly a Carl Rogers man ? I focus on the relationship and providing ?unconditional positive regard.? Consequently, often I just provided a safe and nurturing place for boys and girls to escape the cultish crazy-making tyranny of the program and power hungry untrained staff. Like others before me - I left when my physical and psychological life was on the line from experiencing the torture and treachery of me and the kids.
Adequate illumination?
Light
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Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... rt=D#40257 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=4736&forum=11&Sort=D#40257)
Anonymous
Unregistered User Posted: 2004-03-16 09:39:00
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Gosh, any way we can get an answer to the question about whether a boy committed suicide or not at one of these programs mentioned?
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Your information is very accurate. You were obviously there. Remember when Ullrich changed his hospital to IBHI (I Be High)? We really had to laugh at that one. Freudean slip? I think so. Ullrich change the name a week or two later to NIBH.
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I was at BCA from in the mid ninties. When I arrived there were just a few of us there, it is true that a kid did kill himself. He lived up the road at RMA. He hung himself from the big water lines running from each room. Suicide was nothing new there. Plenty of people tried. It was pretty common. Lots of kids had to be rushed to the Hospital for drinking toxic chemicials, or from cutting themselves. CPS(child protection services) was also pretty common. Lots of kids were hurt in restraints and other physical confrontations. I belive that CEDU has potential to be a life altering experience. However, the problem is that you get a lot of shitty staff, who abuse their power. Which is almost criminal in nature. To have a job, in which you are not fit to perform, a job that gives you total influence in other peoples minds, childrens minds, is in my opinion not only criminal, it is flat out burn in hell wrong.
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[Quote
"I was at BCA from in the mid ninties. When I arrived there were just a few of us there, it is true that a kid did kill himself. He lived up the road at RMA. He hung himself from the big water lines running from each room. Suicide was nothing new there. Plenty of people tried. It was pretty common. Lots of kids had to be rushed to the Hospital for drinking toxic chemicials, or from cutting themselves. CPS(child protection services) was also pretty common. Lots of kids were hurt in restraints and other physical confrontations. I belive that CEDU has potential to be a life altering experience. However, the problem is that you get a lot of shitty staff, who abuse their power. Which is almost criminal in nature. To have a job, in which you are not fit to perform, a job that gives you total influence in other peoples minds, childrens minds, is in my opinion not only criminal, it is flat out burn in hell wrong.
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John Avila
Rocky Mountain Academy
d. July 25, 1994
Source:
http://teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/tribute1.html (http://teenadvocatesusa.homestead.com/tribute1.html)
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Yeah, My friend John hung himself with his commissary issue size 40 belt off of a water pipe in the Camelot dorm. They hushed it up and we watched The Mask and ate ice cream. It was bad, and a terrible day, but I won't forget and one day the people responsible will pay. You see he wasn't killed by the system, he was killed by people in the system, a couple kids and a staff member too blind to see how hard the kid was being fucked with in the dorms. John wasn't a tough kid by any stretch, just a chubby ugly kid, maybe a little slow. He just didn't know how to take being bullied, and didn't know how to fight back. When I was transferred to another school down the road, he lost more than a friend, he lost a protector. He just couldn't take being bullied any longer. I wish he would have taken a pipe to John Reynolds and Jeff Mitchell's heads. Then he should have shoved it up his team leader's ass and broken it off somewhere north of his heart. Oh and by the way his team leaders name was Bruce Wilson, married to Shannon Wilson, living in New Hampshire or some shit now. Mitchell lived in Detroit, and I'm not sure where Reynolds lives, but one day they will pay for what they have done...... Yeah, I'm naming names, I'm calling them out, I'm tired of this bullshit, ya ya ya I was xxx counselor at cedu....I used to work at cedu.....fuck that and fuck you, have the balls to say who you are, are ya scared that you may have once done something to a kid who doesn't forget???? I'll bet you watch Sleepers and hide under your bed. I watch Sleepers and clean my guns.........one fucking day justice will reign and it will reign in blood.......but not enough of their blood will ever wash away ours. I'm out.......Oh, I'm a pussy...Mr. anonymous am I, if you have read down this far, put two and two together, don't be an idiot. Not saying I will, I probably won't, unless I develop a fast acting cancer....I did time once, not in the mood to interact with the convicts in this life. Going against the staff and system is one thing, watching your ass in a shower full of violent men is another altogether.
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Hey early BCA Man, what is your name, we would have been there together, after all, There were very few peops when I was there......Julie Stewart, Summer Young, Hayes (chuck) Cooney, Andy Fleming, John Gruhn, Noah, Will Gonyea, Dale (Jordan) Calderer, Kyle Carlson, Piroska Sebestyen, Craig Sutherland, Hannah Garfield, Laura Vines, James Schuell, David Levy, Rowan Theilman, Aaron Goss, Jessica Johnson, Tennile (Laurinda) Bryant.
The staff were Kathy Sample/Turner, David Hampton, Lori Rist, David Hafter, Joe Gallagher, Doug Ratelle(thursday raps) god I can still remember those, I still can see that spit on Dougs lips as he verbally pulverized us. You will notice my name is not among those students, you can figure it out.....I was the one on the full-time chopping that stump for a month and a half. I was the one who used to flush the other dorms toilet with dental floss just to hear Andy get wound up. I was one of them who caught the grain train to Spokane, and I was the one who was the first to finish the whole brainwashing ordeal at BCA. Names in parenthesesare Mel's little thing of "change your name, change your life" what a crock of shit.
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[ This Message was edited by: Jack1963 on 2004-08-01 15:24 ]
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John is dead, he killed himself, there is nothing anyone can do. Suicide is the easiest murder of them all. It would be impossible to prove. I do need to find his parents, because every year flowers need to be placed on a headstone in Texas..........
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There is another Boy in Texas who needs flowers on his grave. The Boy who was killed while being restrained at Brown School defunct "On Track" program
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John Aaron stands out to me as possibly one of the weakest people I have ever met. He was tough on kids, but I would like to meet him down at the local watering hole. I will admit, there were some okay staff, but they still had to toe the company line. I won't forget the ones that stood tall for me. But, while I was their buddy, they would turn on others who weren't as strong or as smart, and give them a dose of shit. These people are not terrorists, they operate much more like a violent gang. Cut the head off, the puppets will fall. The Brown schools have a lot of money, even if they are in the red, money may hurt them, but there is no way to truly hurt them mentally. I want their hearts to hurt, like no pain on earth before. I want them broken and bleeding on their knees, I want them too feel as we have. You see the problem with fear is that 50% of the time a person completely cows down, and the other half of the people find hatred, and in that hatred find direction. I think CEDU thinks the ratio is different, that everyone is scared to open up about it. They are wrong. Cause I'm here, and I'm now, and I ain't running. Chuck Selent????? hahahahha, he might scare some city slicker, but I was raised country and that's who I'll always be.
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On 2004-04-11 02:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"When I was transferred to another school down the road, he lost more than a friend, he lost a protector. He just couldn't take being bullied any longer. I wish he would have taken a pipe to John Reynolds and Jeff Mitchell's heads. Then he should have shoved it up his team leader's ass and broken it off somewhere north of his heart. Oh and by the way his team leaders name was Bruce Wilson"
You've got your facts mixed up. I was at RMA at the time, and Reynolds and Mitchell had nothing to do with what happened to Avila. Reynolds was friends with Avila by the time he killed himself, for christ's sake, and Mitchell had long since moved on and quit harrassing people.
Avila hanged himself on Friday night. That morning, during raps, Reynolds and Avila and me were all together. Just before the rap ended, Reynolds got up and talked to Avila, asked him why he looked so down. Avila sort of dodged it, didn't really answer, and it was getting to be lunchtime so everyone was hungry and just sort of let it go.
RMA had a fucked up system to handle this sort of thing. The staff weren't well trained, and many of them weren't very smart. Rick Snyder was running the rap that day and his fucking cafeteria sloppy joe was more important than figuring out what was wrong with Avila. But John Reynolds did what he could inside that system to help Avila - it just didn't work because the system didn't work.
I'm curious to know who you are, too. As I remember it, Avila didn't have any defenders except Dave Stites and Bruce. By "down the road" I assume you mean BCA, and I know Stites never went to BCA. You don't have to say your name if you don't want to, just give me some hints and I'll figure it out.
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what was Bruce's team?? was it spectrum?? Tony had vision, or did John Aaron run spectrum?? I think that was it. Caroline had all the dirtbags, holy shit I can't remember what the teams were named. Who's team room was the hobbit? Goddamn I forget that shit. Sheila Claremont, Ned Murray/Tony Allmaras, John Aaron, Bruce Wilson, Caroline Wolf, Fred Thompson, I think that's all the team leaders I can think of right now. What were the teams?? Vision, Spectrum, I forget. Hmmm. I forget, all I know is that Mitchell did not grow out of his bullshit, he kept it going the whole time, and I would assume Reynolds may have been able to, but I'm not real sure. As for me, I was in 57, so I knew all about Mitchell, we shared the same big brother. It might be you, I don't know. Jon Kernis, pg 54. what pg was Ariel in? like 55 with elizabeth lindsey. All I remember about RMA was how gay it was. Everybody had a little clique. The team concept was more in vogue up there. I think I talked in like 5 raps the whole time I was up there. Got my ass chewed twice, once for spitting in Nick Bates' fish tank and once for referring to a black basketball in a rather discriminatory way. Shit I forget about good ol' RMA. Nah, I was only gone like a month when John hung himself, and nobody changed their shit that fast. Dave Stites was good dude, I do remember that. I often wonder how the hell Dave Turner made it through RMA without beating the shit out of somebody. He could take some shit now, that dude got fucked with hard, but he was always cool with me. Nick Bates was solid, there were some good dudes there, but I really didn't like very many people there, probly because I was so young when I went away. I think Chris Garrett, me, Hannah Garfield, and Dale Calderer were the youngest kids there. You'll notice we all went to BCA, I was pissed at the time, but it was probably the best fit for all of us, although Garrett went to CEDU middle, then CEDU high after he went to Ascent from RMA. Shit you probably remember Russ Vernon telling Rick Snyder off in front of the house, that was a good day. Rick called Bingo did he not?? And what was that staff Nicole's last name, not the nicole rowell that came way later, but the nicole that ran the weight room. Shit it's weird trying to remember RMA, although that swimming pond sure was a dandy, it sure didn't look like that in the picture. I think RMA had canoes, but all I remember was that old wood dinghy or whatever it was.
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Nicole Bailey? She had to leave RMA or she was going to die of a stroke. I remember the stress getting to her and I was very worried.
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"what was Bruce's team?? was it spectrum??
Venture.
As for me, I was in 57, so I knew all about Mitchell, we shared the same big brother. It might be you, I don't know. Jon Kernis, pg 54.
No, it wasn't me. I was on Bruce's team and PG 58 with Avila.
once for referring to a black basketball in a rather discriminatory way. Shit I forget about good ol' RMA.
Heh, I think I remember that. Good times.
Nah, I was only gone like a month when John hung himself, and nobody changed their shit that fast.
Things changed fast back then, man. A couple months seemed like a long time. I was only at RMA for 8 months but it seemed like an eternity. My friends said they barely recognized me when I got home (brainwashed lol). A lot could happen in a short time.
Shit you probably remember Russ Vernon telling Rick Snyder off in front of the house, that was a good day. Rick called Bingo did he not??
Yeah, those guys fucking hated each other. Rick was creepy as hell, I loved his stories about when he got robbed for his coke in L.A. and he walked around with a .357 full of hollow points for like a year in case he ran into the guys that did it. I felt bad for his kids.
And what was that staff Nicole's last name, not the nicole rowell that came way later, but the nicole that ran the weight room. Shit it's weird
Yeah, that was Nicole Bailey. She was alright. Once she was sitting around with me and like 3-4 other guys, and she advised us to never touch a girl's head while we were getting a bj. Thanks RMA.
although that swimming pond sure was a dandy, it sure didn't look like that in the picture. I think RMA had canoes, but all I remember was that old wood dinghy or whatever it was.
I don't think there were any canoes when I was there, just the little swimming hole with the dock. I remember looking at a brocure for RMA on the plane when I was going out there, and there was a picture of a sailboat on a big lake. When I got there I found out that they used to take a couple kids out on some staff person's boat once every summer, but they don't anymore. Still had that picture in there to fool the parents though.
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Shit, remember Jeff Biddle?? That dude was cool as hell, I went to BCA with his cousin, who was just like him. He didn't have real good luck outside, don't know if you heard about that. Godammit I should know who you are, I'm sure we chopped quality wood together. It can't be Siegel, I think he was on vision with me, but I'm not real sure. And was it Garrett Bozylinski and Nick Matrazzo that split and one of them was eighteen and they were talking about slapping kidnapping on him???
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Shit, remember Jeff Biddle?? That dude was cool as hell, I went to BCA with his cousin, who was just like him. He didn't have real good luck outside, don't know if you heard about that.
Yeah, Jeff was a good guy. Don't know about anything with him after he left. I'd like to hear what happened, though.
Godammit I should know who you are, I'm sure we chopped quality wood together. It can't be Siegel, I think he was on vision with me, but I'm not real sure.
Not Siegel but you're close. He was a good friend of mine. I feel stupid being all secretive like this, but after reading some of the posts here I'm a little paranoid about CEDU.
And was it Garrett Bozylinski and Nick Matrazzo that split and one of them was eighteen and they were talking about slapping kidnapping on him???
Nah, it was Chet something, he was over 18 and he still ran into the woods like he was afraid they'd come find him. I heard Garrett turned up on a fishing boat in Puget Sound. I don't remember Nick - was he maybe the guy who split with Lee W.? Lee split before I got to RMA, and whoever he was with didn't make it back, went somewhere else.
I haven't thought about this stuff in a long time.
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Nocole was involved in local sexcapades and was divorced
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J----- D. Is that you?
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Weinstein.... That was the all time best last name, he came back to RMA before I left, but I'm not real sure what the hell happened to him, he sorta dropped out of sight.
He just kind of kept to himself at RMA, and I don't know anything about after. He lived in my dorm room, he was a solid guy, and Reynolds was friends with him, but Lee and I didn't get along too well. I was just sticking to the rules and trying to convince everyone I was better so I could get home, and he resisted every step of the way (at least until I left). I guess he though I was a kissass and a sellout.
I'm sure people who knew they were in Idaho for the duration had a much different experience than I did. If my parents hadn't promised me early release, I doubt I would have handled RMA the way I did. But they dangled that carrot in front of me, and I saw that my clearest way out wasn't a late-night run into the woods with only my wool blanket for company.
Hey, Mark Mount made it to Alabama didn't he?? he may have left when I was there, I can't remember.
Don't know, I remember hearing about him, he split with a guy who came back after about 6 months or so. I can't remember the other guy's name, the one who came back. I know they got to L.A. and were living on the street (that's why the other guy came back, it sucked, predictably I guess).
Uhm, On a sad note, Jeff was executed in Las Vegas. Deal went south or something.
My god that's fucked up. Jeff was a really good guy, he was really easygoing without any of the fake hardass bullshit some people tried to pull. I hate to think he got killed like that. Do you know any details about it, beyond what you said?
Remember Cenci and Martinez??
I remember Cenci, he was like the secret fourth member of House of Pain. Supposedly he had to go in his backyard and dig up a pistol on his first homevisit. Don't remember Martinez, though. I think he was gone by the time I got there.
Obie Goodman.... I always think of him when I am in Kalispell, MT, him and Shannon the redhead.
Yeah, Obie as I recall was one of the only people ever to split and make it home, mostly because he lived so close. Are you talking about Shannon Campanero? (OMG the Sunkist shirt she had, holy shit) Or was there an older Shannon maybe, not nearly as hot? Can't remember.
"J----- D. Is that you?"
Nope. Don't even know who that is.
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[ This Message was edited by: Hell on Wheels on 2004-07-10 23:47 ]
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do you have any information on the cult that ran cedu from 82-85? i have tracked them to cascade academy where they shut down to avoid lawsuit. i am a victim of these nazis and i can tell you what really went down in running springs under michael allgood and wife
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I'll be anonymous also yay
With subjects like Siegel, Reynolds, Kriz, etc how come we have not brought back the good memories of playing ping pong in the house - fun times. A good way to pass time. That and Curt Olson's wacky games he would create.
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so ya what ever happened to Matty S? Also I wonder how Ed Kickham is doing - he was pulled during my stay - a good guy.
I think I was a peer group or two AFTER yours if that rings any bells ding ding.
And I spoke to Stites recently, I should send him to this link.
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.[ This Message was edited by: Hell on Wheels on 2004-07-10 23:48 ]
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[ This Message was edited by: Hell on Wheels on 2004-07-10 23:48 ]
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On 2004-03-19 11:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"One of the kids that is or was once at one of the schools died in a car accident - I have heard nothing of another suicide - thank God"
If you're talking about Heather W. she was my friend. She was driving down the mountain (or so I was told) from Running Springs and went right off the side of the mountain. She was one of the most caring and sweet people I've ever had the chance of knowing.
As for my friend Kati G., she killed herself after she got out of CEDU. The program didn't do shit for her because she still wound up in a bathtub full of blood. The only thing that makes me feel better about her death is that she was too beautiful for this world.
RIP MY BEAUTIFUL ANGELS :cry:
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even if kati did get shit from cedu, it wasn't strong enough to combat her powerful sense of self-loathing. kati had been enrolled at cedu because she had severely low self-esteem which lead to an eating disorder and suicidal tendencies (and more.) kati was a very soft and gentle person... "synanon tactics" were not ideal for her; her love for herself was not strong enough to resist the harsh criticisms presented by both herself and her environment. consequently, this approach would only make kati feel worse about herself and her situation; what she really needed was someone to help her love herself (not someone to give her more reasons to hate herself.)
this just goes to show how thoughtless and ineffective these standardized processes can truly be... any psychologist/therapist who has a high rate of success recognizes that every person is unique, and thus each individual requires a personalized approach.
have you guys ever heard about my old cedu buddy david attias?
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.c ... A25263.DTL (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2002/06/21/BA25263.DTL)
by the way, to the therapist who started this thread: having werked at cedu isn't something that you need to be forgiven for... i mean, you therapists kept most of us sane. it's how you werked with the kids that may or may not have been evil. if there's anything else to beg forgiveness for, it's having left when there were lots of kids who needed a compassionate shoulder to cry on (rather than a sadistic one.)
_________________
laura solomon
cedu vet. 1996-1999
RIP[ This Message was edited by: mikehunt on 2004-06-09 15:03 ]
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Hey this is Julie Stewart-Who is this? You forgot John Gruhn. I think that was his name. Always use to flip out. :???:
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NEVERMIND- :lol: :lol: I know who you are!!!!!!!1
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Yeah, ol' Gruhn, and Hayes (chuck), Andy, Priedel, Vines, Summer...... the good ol' days. I just remember that bigger chick that tied that shoelace around her neck, I thought she was gonna die before I finally got the scissors around that shoelace. I still remember that. I think she went to Pinecrest/NIBH. That was fucked up. That and Maria the cutter. That bothered the shit out of me, I know it was a game, and all that, but she had that fucker down to the bone, with scissors or something.
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On 2004-06-10 16:04:00, Hell on Wheels wrote:
"Yeah, ol' Gruhn, and Hayes (chuck), Andy, Priedel, Vines, Summer...... the good ol' days. I just remember that bigger chick that tied that shoelace around her neck, I thought she was gonna die before I finally got the scissors around that shoelace. I still remember that. I think she went to Pinecrest/NIBH. That was fucked up. That and Maria the cutter. That bothered the shit out of me, I know it was a game, and all that, but she had that fucker down to the bone, with scissors or something."
Yeah the cutters always bothered me. I remember one time we came back to the dorm and it was covered in blood because some kid slashed himself up with a shaving razor. I remember quite a few kids that had problems, this other kid that I "moved in (big brother type deal)" slashed his wrists up in the bathroom one night and freaked out everyone in the dorm (he lived). Thank god wasn't my dorm, woulda bugged me out to.
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Julie Stewart!!! Shit I lost all your guys' info. All these names bring back memories. I can hardly recall much on my own without being reminded. My brain at that time was so addled on psychotropics.
Yeah, I remember Maria. She really went far...really messed up girl. I remember when we talked a lot on her bunk. Bonnie was kinda like her. I think I had to babysit both of them at different times.
hmmm...I think I was in Avila's last rap. I remember the whole thing.
yeah, we all ended up in bca
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[ This Message was edited by: Hell on Wheels on 2004-07-10 23:49 ]
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I would like to have contact with this ex staffer. Light, is there any chance of that? You sound articulate enough to help me in my new struggle. I am examining my present and am deeply affected by RMAzing things of the past. I was stripped searched by Richard Armstrong needlessly 16 years ago today!!!
I am starting to srite a memoir and I have just started reading and writing postings. I am in contact with noone from my time there. Please respond, LIGHT!!!
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What I would like to stress to CEDU is that some kids have real physical problems like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder and this psychobabble feelings crap will not help them. They need to learn to diagnose these true mental disorders and send these kids to facilities where they can get the proper treatment.
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I know this is a real old post, I don't know if you're still on this site sometimes. I was wondering if this is you, Ed. If it is, you mentioned me... I'm doing fine. If it's you, i'd love to talk to you, I've thought about you often over all these years. If not, I've got another idea about who it is, and if so, I'd love to talk to you too. Let's get this thread going again. In the least, John deserves to have someone talk about him and remember him. PG 58. NYC. Steega.
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Holy crap. I was just googling myself and found myself up here in the middle of high school again. My name is Dave Stites and I remember all these people and the day Jon Avila hung himself, and all of that. It was fun playing ping pong in the old lodge and so forth; talk about a forum you never thought would exist. I'm more than a little blown away that it's out there. I know this board's been abandoned for something like two years by the look of it, but I wanted people who are out googling quasi-randomly away to find this when they do. I'm 29 now and I remember how tragic everything seemed when I was at RMA, how each day was a struggle, and it was just unbearable. It took me years to decompress from the expectations that I would have so many feelings about everything. I really wanted everybody to shut up and leave me alone, not because I was so tortured from within, but because I was being tortured from without; not a day went by that somebody wasn't invading my whole psyche, who had no business doing it. I won't be so petty as to name names, but adults who enjoy doing that kind of work, shouting at teens who they think need to cry every day, probably shouldn't be doing that kind of work.
I live in Minneapolis and am married and do pharmacy work. My wife is a nurse. We met at the hospital, in a spot about ten yards from where I am writing this, on an elevator. I was friends with Chet Johnson, but then he blew off my wedding (where he was supposed to be an usher) and he is dead to me now. I still talk to John Kriz all the time. He still has small teeth and large gums. Rob Lund lived here for a while. So did Jeremy Blank, that cat killer. I'm a watchmaker now, in my last year of school. I anticipate moving somewhere (maybe overseas) to begin my career next January. John Kriz should know where I went, in case anyone wants to get ahold of me. My virtual address is daleshipley@(fakebit).gmail.com.
Regrets? Yeah. Never telling Shannon Wilson how goddamn crazy she (and most of the rest of the women at the school) was.
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He was hangin' in there like Micheal Hutchens
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John is dead, he killed himself, there is nothing anyone can do. Suicide is the easiest murder of them all. It would be impossible to prove. I do need to find his parents, because every year flowers need to be placed on a headstone in Texas..........
this topic is old, but i want to clarify some things.....Suicide is not impossible to be proved a murder. Off the top of my head I can think of three child suicides where the caregiver was found guilty of causing it. In one case the mother forced her teen to work as a stripper, in the other the mother didnt keep the house clean(?).
Of course, the things done to the kids at CEDU are far worse than these acts of abuse and neglect. The brain is deliberately damaged to induce derrangement and feelings of worthlessness. Their perception of total powerlessness over their perdicament is not just what they are deliberately induced to feeling, it is an accurate assesment . Overwhelming feelings of powerlessness and worthlesness are among the most major causes of suicide. So is the beleif that death is the only way to escape a terrible situation. Unfortunetly, this is not just something they are terrorized into beleiving (be at Cedu or u will die),it is an accurate assessment .The kids cannot escape the horror- they are prisoners, and if they manage to runaway they will be hunted down and returned. Their attempts to explain they are being abused are unbeleived or dismissed as the proper was to treat a subhuman "troubled teen".
The law is not at fault here, only the authorities are who are too corupt or complaisant to enforce it
Also, I dont know if you meant any harm, but calling a child who commited suicide ugly and slow is disrespectful. Besides, while I cant speak to how fuckable the child was, you really werent in a position to measure his intelligence. Albert Einstein was considered a fool into his teens. Assumabley, someone around Einstein was smart and well educated and even without being a teen in a gulug they couldnt gage such a thing correctly Also obviously, Cedu is not the sort of place where a timid fightened young intelect is provided a hatchery to develop and reveal itself.
If you know anyother suicides to come out of cedu please contact [email protected] in the position of intimately knowing a child before and after cedu- he commited suicide afterward and so can testify that Cedu was the cause. Mabye if we can get together we can not just charge civilly ..but put them away for the rest of their life in the prison they deserve
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I know this is a real old post, I don't know if you're still on this site sometimes. I was wondering if this is you, Ed. If it is, you mentioned me... I'm doing fine. If it's you, i'd love to talk to you, I've thought about you often over all these years. If not, I've got another idea about who it is, and if so, I'd love to talk to you too. Let's get this thread going again. In the least, John deserves to have someone talk about him and remember him. PG 58. NYC. Steega.
In case you're looking at this Matty, throw a post up.
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I am Obie Goodman. I just discovered this site. I was kind of wondering if something like this existed.
Just for clarification, I did not run and make it home. We (Holly, Shauna, & I) left at night and hiked through the woods along the clearcut that follows the power lines over the mountain. We were being hunted and tracked by the bounty hunters almost the whole time. we were apprehended the next day in Bonners Ferry. They tried bring me back to RMA to put me in a jumpsuit and booth but I went ape-shit. I ran around smashing the place up with staff chasing me for about an hour. Tony finally tackled me and restrained me (illegally). Then I went to ASCENT, completed that program & then went home. :cheers:
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I'm out of the closet - I'm a former CEDU Therapist too. May the Great Spirit forgive me. I heard a boy hung himself again (recently) at RMA or BCA. Any truth to that?
A lady told me the parents fly in on a corporte jet. I knew a boy and family like that.
Does anyone know who it was? I would be very sad, but I must have the truth so I can grieve or let it go. :cry:
Light
I don't know about this recent event but I know of many CEDU people who have committed suicide. One was Kim Quigley, a staff member who put a shotgun in his mouth and blew his brains out. Any of those "behavioral" psycho-babble programs are evil.
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I do not believe it was by chance that I should come across this topic. As a former BCA student, this topic is relevant to me for several reasons.
I vividly remember the first day I got there, August 24th 2010. I was fresh out of wilderness and had not even showered yet, and I finished eating lunch in the Clifty dining hall. Two students approached me and asked if I wanted to check out an unused dormitory with them. Being naive and unknowing of what was in store, I figured it couldn't hurt. It was only when I walked up the first floor of the dorm that they explained why they brought me there; the dorm was called Camelot, and was the site of a suicide in the early 90's at the former school on the property (RMA as I later learned). They made me look through the window as no curtains were blocking the view, to see the sprinkler pipe where this boy hanged himself. It was still slightly bent, adding an eerie and ominous feeling to the sight. I was frightened, as I had only been at the school for a few hours and I was already receiving a picture that wasn't pretty about the place.
The subject was tabooed at BCA; while no one received consequences for discussing the subject, the staff and faculty never discussed it. Some who were unaware of the legitimacy of the story tried to brush it off as false. Students were generally immature about the matter, and chose to perpetuate this campus legend by joking about "the ghost of Camelot". When we had barbecues by the pond, we were never allowed to go up there because the staff were aware of how the story had been spread amongst students since it occurred. It was never brought up during last lights or workshops, as an unwritten rule.
Do you think it's possible that he may have hung himself there, in full view of all, at least partially as a warning?
I was personally offended by the matter, because I felt it was so inappropriate to make fun of an innocent kid who took his own life; it doesn't matter how long ago it happened, because the fact that it happened at all was tragic. I am so against anyone having to experience the kind of hazing I went through, because it's not fair to new students who are so desperate to find something positive about the school. I grew tired of people exploiting the story, and got after people when they talked about this subject with disrespect. However, I realized that a lot of it just had to do with the fact that these people were teenagers, and often didn't know what they were doing or talking about. I was able to discuss this subject with a select few people (including staff who had worked at both schools during the incident) who knew I was the kind of person who could handle the subject maturely, and I felt like it was a learning experience. I think there was a silver lining in the story, because according to their accounts (which I felt were reliable) despite what happened, this boy was the happiest he was in his life because he had gotten away from the problems he was dealing with at home. Apparently, not only did the parents not sue the school, but because of this realization as a tribute they had his ashes spread on the Quest trail.
Ultimately, I realized that the greatest tribute we can pay to those who have passed away is to move on and live our own life; in the end, I only wish more people at BCA had felt the same way I did about this subject.
Ya mean, as a consequence of being the happiest he had ever been in his life... he committed suicide? :eek:
I guess Rocky Mountain Academy simply wasn't able to impart the appropriate coping mechanisms for so much happiness!
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Please, you must not misunderstand me; I am not at all undermining how shady things were at CEDU programs during that time, and I know what I am saying sounds paradoxical... What I was trying to get at is that from a trustworthy source told me, he was pretty much brand new; he had only been at RMA for a couple of weeks before he committed suicide, and there's two ways you can look at this: it did so much damage in so little time, or conversely, the small amount of time he was there shows that it may have not necessarily had anything to do with the school, but rather how broken he already was, and that it ultimately had more to do with himself; the 1994 article from the Spokesman-Review concerning the event is archived on the internet (http://www.teenliberty.org/RMA.htm (http://www.teenliberty.org/RMA.htm)) and it states that he had apparently been taking medication for bipolar disorder, which from firsthand experience I can say these kinds of medicines only made me feel worse. The worst part about this story is, according to the article, he was found by another student... I want to be adamant about that I have the utmost respect and sensitivity towards these kind of people who were in so much pain that they couldn't take it anymore, and their story ended in tragedy. What I am trying to say is that from what I have heard, amongst the people who were cruel to him, he found people who genuinely cared about him and were true friends, something that this person had not been accustomed to before he went to the school.
Again, I want to be firm about the fact that my intention was to voice my respect for this poor kid's memory in the midst of all the people who missed the point and did not take it seriously. I'm more for what you believe than you could ever imagine, so I am asking with compassion, love and mercy that you do not misconstrue my message.
Oh, I don't think anyone here would misconstrue your heartfelt intentions. And if they did, they're probably grappling with some sociopathic propensities that, imo, are best left ignored. Although I might diverge a bit from your overall analysis of the worth and meaning of the experientials you went through at BCA, that's hardly all that important, is it? After all, these are your experiences and your thoughts and I'm just interjecting my two cents, relative to my take on things, in part heavily colored by *my* experiences (at a different program), and which you can take or leave, as you wish...
Fwiw, I've followed your posts with interest, though I haven't responded 'till this here thread. You have a real gift with descriptives. The image of the bent pipe in the distance, seen through the unadorned naked window, was a metaphorical homage to this kid that few could have evoked so eloquently and so earnestly. It was haunting, even for someone who wasn't there.
In closing, here's an excerpt from a recent post (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=36817&p=405888#p405888) by someone who went to CEDU Running Springs, who survived two suicide attempts, and who is still trying to parse his/her time in program:
It has left me in a weird type of limbo that I don't understand and longing for experiences that don't exist in the real world and probably shouldn't have existed at CEDU either. As sick as this may sound, I probably would have been content to stay at CEDU forever and put up with the soul-crushing techniques employed there in order to experience that strange sense of closeness with other human beings that comes after the peculiar, induced, emotional discharges that occur in raps and propheets.[/list]