Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Who Am I Discovery/Whitmore => Topic started by: Anonymous on February 17, 2005, 03:26:00 PM
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http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsnz.html#whitmore (http://www.isaccorp.org/documentsnz.html#whitmore)
Additional Comments from the Director of ISAC, posted on February 16, 2005:
In a telephone conversation on Friday, February 11, 2005 with ISAC Director Shelby Earnshaw, Mark Sudweeks claimed that Joyce Harris "dragged her daughter out [of Whitmore Academy] by the hair."
In the days following, ISAC became aware of statements reportedly made by another interested party who claimed to have a copy of the incident report filed by the Nephi City Police Officer who accompanied Joyce Harris to Whitmore Academy.
Along with this claim, this third person also reportedly said that the incident report stated that Mrs. Harris had dragged her daughter by the hair.
This person also reportedly stated that the police officers investigating the case do not believe Mrs. Harris.
Because ISAC is committed to reporting FACTUAL INFORMATION, Director Shelby Earnshaw spoke directly to the investigator in charge of the case on Tuesday, February 15, 2005.
Among other things, the investigator stated that he believes Joyce Harris is "very credible."
During that conversation, ISAC also learned that due to a clerical error, the incident report in question had never been entered into the computer and DID NOT EXIST prior to ISAC's phone call to the Nephi City Police on February 15, 2005.
Therefore it would not be possible for Mark Sudweeks or any other persons to have a copy of the report in question.
Today, Wednesday February 16, ISAC obtained a copy of the report made by the Nephi City Police on the night that Joyce Harris removed her daughter from Whitmore Academy.
It is not public record so only excerpts will be posted on this site, however the report supports the fact that statements accusing Mrs. Harris of dragging her daughter by the hair, are false.
On 11-27-04 at approximately 02:21 hours I accompanied Richard and Joyce Harris of San Antonio, Texas to the Whitmore Academy.
When [the child] was about to leave several girls from the academy told Joyce that she couldn't take her. Joyce insisted and began pulling on [the child's] arm as several girls pulled on her other arm to try and keep her there.
Once again the girls told Joyce that she couldn't take her. Joyce pulled on her arm and the other girls pulled her back. [The child] broke loose and swiftly exited the mansion.
In the telephone conversation with Mark Sudweeks on February 11, ISAC informed him that he was welcome to submit a response to the statements made by Joyce Harris.
Mr. Sudweeks conveyed no interest in doing that and has sent no response to date, however he did state several times that ISAC would be hearing from his attorney.
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I'm beginning to think the Sudweeks don't know fact from fiction. In fact, it seems to me they just flat out tell bald-faced lies. Read the police report for yourself. Those of you supporting the Sudweeks, do you really believe that the Nephi Police Department is lying?? It's more like Mark Sudweeks looks like to me.
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Anyone wonder who this "third person" might be?
Who else could be so upset with the Harris's Statement to ISAC?
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In the Canada Animal Cruelty case where Mark Sudweeks was found guilty, the Judge had this to say about Mark Sudweeks' testimony:
Paragraph 27 Regina v Sudweeks
"I found Mr. Sudweeks' testimony to be a litany of excuses. Some were incredible and others merely very unconvincing. He did not raise any reasonable doubt in my mind."
What a nice way to say: This man does not tell the truth.
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Oh, by the way,the Attorney General in Utah dismissed the child abuse case today. No evidence. Imagine that!
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ATTENTION:
The Posting that says THE ATTORNEY GENERAL HAS DROPPED THE ABUSE CHARGES AGAINST THE SUDWEEKS IS NOT TRUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The Attorney General only handles Civil Matters and is STILL investigating the Sudweeks for FRAUD etc.
The Attorney General can be reached at
801 812-5206 to verify that this posting that the abuse charges being dropped is a LIE!!!
The Sudweeks are still being investigated for physical and sexual abuse!
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A mis-informed parent posting misinformation on this site.
MY my----imagine THAT!
Almost as interesting as a NON-EXISTING Police Report.
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Have all the Sudweeks' followers missed this thread?
Guess they just avoid things that they just have no way to explain at all.
Could say: Hey Joyce, sorry I lied!
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For the most part, Program supporters have retreated. They can't control the dialog or keep out inconvenient facts and thoughts so they can't win. My guess is we won't be hearing from them anymore. They're probably not allowed to read Fornits anymore.
The government of the United States is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion.
--John Adams, U.S. President
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No, they have not retreated. They have taken on a more direct appraoch- contact those already out and speaking their minds. The kids home are receiving emails and phone calls, I have witnessed both!
I am a parent and I know for a fact my son received a threatening call. I have also seen emails. The calls and emails are to those they believe are the ring leaders. The contacts have gone from threatening and abusive to pleads to stop. The victim role is being played by Cheryl and several others. The emails are a pathetic attempt to get pity and proclaim unconditional love.
A little late for that don't you think. Especially since the contact prior to the emails were so abusive and threatening. Sorry, but actions speak much louder than words! Those who are telling the truth are "distroying them." Forget about the experiences and secrets those home still live with every single day!
Why aren't the parents of these kids contacted?? Why continue to call, email and threaten those now home. Could it be they still may have fragile, confused minds? As a parent I say, "leave the kids alone!" Contact the parents if you have something to say. Most of them are still minors. Not to mention, if they have filed complaints you are tampering with witnesses which is against the law!
If you have nothing to hide and all the accusations are false, there is nothing to worry about. Go on with your daily activities and "saving children." Let the authorities and attorneys do their jobs. Eventually this will come to an end, one way or the other. As Joyce said... "The truth will prevail!" No amount of cursing, slander or threats can change the truth-just make the accusations more believable.
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To any parents who have received an threatening phone calls or emails:
Please call BOTH your local police, and the Nephi Police departments.
Save the caller ID on your phone, to verify to you local police exactly which phone number or cell number the call was made from.
Save the emails to turn over to both local police and Nephi police.
That is what we did when we received these type emails and phone calls from indiviuals who were given our email address and home phone numbers by SOMEONE from Whitmore who made these types of contact to our family.
The contacts did stop. You won't feel completely safe, because people who will behave in this manner have a serious problem--but the harrassment can hopefully end.
Of course these people do not contact adults---they have no control over adults. And they think they can still have mind control over our children by threats, and if that fails, by trying to draw them back into their false sense of "FAMILY LOVE," which is just as frightening.
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Check w/ your local phone company. A lot of local telcos offer a call trace service for law enforcement. Here's a typical info sheet on that:
http://www.ci.broomfield.co.us/police/v ... rass.shtml (http://www.ci.broomfield.co.us/police/victservphoneharass.shtml)
"Have the Calls Traced
To trace a call, press *57 (or 1157 on rotary phones) immediately after hanging up from the call. If the call was traced, the telephone number will be forwarded to a Qwest Security Center. The trace information can be given to the Broomfield Police Department if you choose to report the incident. Qwest will not give you the trace information. You do not have to sign up for Call Trace. A $1.00 fee is charged each time a call is traced."
When I checked this service out in Broward, they also advised me to keep a journal, noting the time and date and the content of each harassing call. He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion.
--James Burgh 1774
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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We had hoped that this posting would at least slow down some of the false accusations about what happened the night we picked our daughter up from the Whitmore on Nov 27th.
The latest posting under the topic
"Whitmore Academy in Utah"...the Whitmore Alumni now posts that Joyce "took her (daughter) by the hair and threw her out the door."
and that "the cops came and you (Joyce)lied to them."
We actually requested a police escort, and Officer Wright accompanied us to the Whitmore, and he witnessed that I did not pull my daughter's hair or abuse her.
It is amazing that even with a posting from ISAC showing that Mark Sudweeks lied about this incident, that the slanderous remarks continue.
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Don't sweat it Joyce. If they admit to that, then their whole little world comes crumbling down. If they take their finger out of the dyke then their whole belief system is challenged. Can't have that now can we?
To seek out the best through the whole Union, we must resort to the information which from the best of men, acting disinterestedly and with the purest motives, is sometimes incorrect.
Thomas Jefferson Letter to Elias Shipman and others of New Haven, July 12, 1801.
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So, no one is disputing that the police were there when Mrs. Harris withdrew her daughter. . . Correct?
Does it not occur to those insisting that she pulled her daughter out by the hair on her head, while the girl cried, "Please don't let her take me", that the police officer would have been obligated to arrest Mrs. Harris on the spot, IF this were true?
If this were true, it would certainly be in the incident report.
The attending officer never saw any such thing - and anyone who claims otherwise is lying or repeating lies, without bothering to make a simple phone call to fact check.
And the horses in Canada were Starved. Read the transcripts.
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Personally, I never doubted the child's mother was telling the truth.
You, on the other hand buzzkill, have a "credibility" problem from what I can tell reading your many posts about ALA.
So tell us, have you written or spoken to Sue Scheff regarding the referrals to Whitmore and if so, did you express your concern for the care and treatment of the children AND the poor horses?
moo
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moo?
Are you infering I'm a cow; your a cow; or was that a typo trying to answer your own questions?
Why is it you (who ever you are :roll: ) want to turn everything I say into an argument about ALA or Sue? Are you trying to exploit me to advance your agenda?! :eek:
So, you never doubted Joyce - fat lot of good it does that *you* don't doubt her.
As far as who I talk to and what I might have said - it dam sure aint none of your business.
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Buzzkill, thank you for your support.
I do not know what ALA means.
My husband and I have voiced our opinion of the P.U.R.E. organization, and the dis-service it did to our daughter by referring us to the Whitmore Academy.
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On 2005-02-28 16:43:00, BuzzKill wrote:
"moo?
Are you infering I'm a cow; your a cow; or was that a typo trying to answer your own questions?
MOO = My own opinion, from what I've been told.
Why is it you (who ever you are :roll: ) want to turn everything I say into an argument about ALA or Sue?
Because you continue to support Sue and her referral business. http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=40#77497 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=7885&forum=9&start=40#77497)
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Oh - Well, your entitled to your opinion, of corse!
And I am intitled to mine. I prefer IMO, or IMHO.
You attacked my credibility based on my support of ALA; then asked questions about Sue; then you Moo at me.
Now, you say you attacked my credibility b/c I have defended a friend against accusations of money grubbing.
I can only suggest, if you find me less than credible, avoid my posts.
[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-02-28 19:34 ]
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Buzzkill,
I do appreciate your support.
I read the posting the ANON cited, too.
I do not know your relationship with Ms. Sue Scheff. But she is aware of the allegations of physical abuse against one student which was the reason we withdrew our daughter in November , and we have filed sexual abuse charges on behalf of our daughter against the owners of Whitmore Academy.
And, Sue Scheff continues to refer students to this "school" knowing these investigations are on-going. Now that bothers me a whole lot. That is not the way I would do business...but then I would not be in this business to begin with. We simply THOUGHT we were sending our little girl to a safe, boarding school that offered therapy for Reactive Attachment Disorder.
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On 2005-02-28 19:22:00, BuzzKill wrote:
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Now, you say you attacked my credibility b/c I have defended a friend against accusations of money grubbing.
No, your credibility was attacked because you blindly support Sue and her referrals. I'm glad someone like Joyce is around to prove that Sue is referring to the SAME KIND OF DAMN PROGRAMS AS WWASP.
But that's right. You KNOW her and she would NEVER refer to those kinds of programs. We'll ask you again.....based on WHAT? Other than something like "I just know her and she wouldn't do that" please.
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//And, Sue Scheff continues to refer students to this "school" knowing these investigations are on-going. Now that bothers me a whole lot.//
It troubles me as well. I wish she wouldn't.
And thats as much as I'll say here.
'bout this:
//No, your credibility was attacked because you blindly support Sue and her referrals//
Go back and read your own post.
//We'll ask you again//
And who is "we"?
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On 2005-02-28 20:12:00, BuzzKill wrote:
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//And, Sue Scheff continues to refer students to this "school" knowing these investigations are on-going. Now that bothers me a whole lot.//
It troubles me as well. I wish she wouldn't.
And thats as much as I'll say here.
but I'll continue to support and defend her. No matter that she's STILL referring people to an abusive facility and has FILLED them up with her referrals. I KNOW her and that's all I need. :roll: :roll:
Sounds a little too close to "Sue said it, I believe it, that settles it". I wonder if you can get a bumper sticker made up for that? :roll:
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On 2005-02-28 20:12:00, BuzzKill wrote:
And who is "we"?"
The many legions of us that have asked you repeatedly why you continue to support Sue and PURE. Specifically why you don't think she refers to "WWASP like" facilities.
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Well, I would have to say that Whitmore Academy is about as WWASP-like as they come:
Cheryl Sudweeks is NOT a licensed therapist and she runs group "sessions" for the main purpose of humiliating kids.
Cheryl Sudweeks, a co-owner of Whitmore orders kids to beat up kids.
Kids are punished by being forbidden to eat meals.
Kids are bound and gagged when being beaten.
At Whitmore there are "Kids supervising Kids."
Parents are promised a quality education and therapy by a licensed therapist for their kids, and this is not provided.
The parents pay for and expect a safe, clean, healthy environment, and this is not provided.
So--from what I have read about WWASP Programs, I think if you asked the boy who was abused if Whitmore is WWASP-like, he would give you a great big YES. I know my daughter would.
I really don't like the idea that WWASP is set up as the "standard" of whether or not a child was abused ENOUGH. When parents send their children away to what is represented as a "private theuraputic academic boarding school," they do not have the expectation that their child will be abused AT ALL.
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On 2005-02-28 20:50:00, Joyce Harris wrote:
I really don't like the idea that WWASP is set up as the "standard" of whether or not a child was abused ENOUGH. When parents send their children away to what is represented as a "private theuraputic academic boarding school," they do not have the expectation that their child will be abused AT ALL.
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:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: The last struggles of a great superstition are very frequently the worst.
--Andrew Dickson White (1832-1918)
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On 2005-02-28 20:50:00, Joyce Harris wrote:
Well, I would have to say that Whitmore Academy is about as WWASP-like as they come:
I would beg to differ w/ that assessment. There are a lot of programs out there that are more WWASP-like. Thayer, for example. It's run by John and Willa Bundy. John Bundy is thought to be a former employee of Teen Help/WWASPS. Can anyone substantiate that? They also operate a referal service that's been under some criticism for pretending to represent a group of outfits, but really strongly favoring Thayer.
And a young man died there recently, over the course of at least days and in front of a few students and staff. Nobody spoke out till it was too late the way some of the Whitmore kids spoke out about some of the things that have happened there.
I think there's a difference. I don't really blame the people who insist that "different from WWASP" means perfectly good, safe and effective for thinking that. I do blame them for refusing to look closely enough at the proffered alternatives. Everybody wants to be a hero. Nobody wants to think they've been wrong. That's how crusades, jihads and other wars always start.
There are similarities as well. Those are interesting. They're similar in that they really seem to hook the parents a lot more than the kids. Most of the kids just go along because the program is holding their parents hostage. But they don't have anywhere near the level of organization that WWASP has w/ controling the parents, either. It's just these couple of charismatic ppl, not an established show circuit of EST derived seminars.
I've spoken to former students and adults who are actually afraid of physical, illegal, thug violence if they speak out against Thayer and/or the CEDU programs. Whitmore only seems to inspire fear of getting a bitch session from Cheryl.
No, I'd give WWASP props for professionalism, but it's like giving props to Stalin for having the trains running on time.
Moralizing, with the force of law or coercion, is a
far greater crime against the constitutional principles of our nation than unauthorized euphoria, regardless of the substance involved, be it chocolate or heroin.
--James
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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On 2005-02-28 20:50:00, Joyce Harris wrote:
I really don't like the idea that WWASP is set up as the "standard" of whether or not a child was abused ENOUGH. When parents send their children away to what is represented as a "private theuraputic academic boarding school," they do not have the expectation that their child will be abused AT ALL.
Well I don't like it either, but I read it differently. I've looked over some of the WWASP material from time to time and looked in on some of their public parent support/recruiting forums. And I must say that their hateful attitude toward kids is thinley veiled.
That's the saddest part of this whole saga. As you talked about in another thread, these kids have become orphans in a big way. They've been through this major, life altering trauma and they can never talk to their parents about it. End of the day, their parents are no longer on their side.
I know what that feels like and I know what it feels like to have a parent leave the ranks of the faithful and be there for me. I feel for those kids who don't have even one parent left to them after the Program fleeces their families.
That WWASP is the standard in the industry (I'm not so sure that's true anymore, but they're certainly up there) tells me something I don't really want to know about this generation of parents.
Whenever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force.
Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798
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Antigen,
I am sorry, but I still disagree.
Whitmore is just one school which is run by two owners, Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks.
But I do not believe that the abuse of any child should be "graded by some standard of what is worse."
What if this boy who was being abused had not finally escaped, and gotten to the police? He had only been at Whitmore less than 2 months, and had been abused repeatedly the whole time--from the moment he arrived at Lake Powell. I can not state the incidents since my daughter will be a witness if it goes to trial; but this 14 year old boy's very life was in danger.
We removed our daughter after 2 months at Whitmore, and have filed serious charges against the Sudweeks. We certainly are glad we didn't wait to see "just how bad it could have gotten."
I do not know the extent of the mind-control of the people who are "believers of the Sudweeks." But when strangers call and harrass us on their behalf, that is scary. When Mark Sudweeks will lie and "quote" from a non-existing police report, that causes us concerns.
Whitmore may not be the "worse of the worse" but from how things seem to be developing, perhaps the word YET should be added to that.
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still NO evidence?
the investigation has been going on for how long? nov.?
their still open?
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On 2005-02-28 20:12:00, BuzzKill wrote:
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//And, Sue Scheff continues to refer students to this "school" knowing these investigations are on-going. Now that bothers me a whole lot.//
It troubles me as well. I wish she wouldn't.
And thats as much as I'll say here.
'bout this:
//No, your credibility was attacked because you blindly support Sue and her referrals//
Go back and read your own post.
//We'll ask you again//
And who is "we"?"
Karen Burnett (aka BuzzKill)? I can not believe you are still posting on Fornits but since you are I guess you won't mind me laughing my a** off!
Baaaaaawaaaaaahahaaaahahaaaa!
:wave:
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On 2005-02-28 21:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"still NO evidence?
the investigation has been going on for how long? nov.?
their still open?"
Now, in this respect, I see no distinction beween Whitmore and a WWASP program at all. Always under investigation for some damned thing, always blaming some evile forces allied against them. I almost fell off my chair laughing over the evile Canadian government story. Gimme a break! You don't get everything you want. A dictatorship would be a lot
easier.
--GW Büsh, Governor of Texas. Governing Magazine, 7/98
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On 2005-02-28 21:45:00, Joyce Harris wrote:
What if this boy who was being abused had not finally escaped, and gotten to the police?
If it had been a WWASP program, the police would probably have brought him back, if he even made it that far. Nephi, as a town, might be sort of a backwater. But it's a whole world away from some of these really remote, lock-down places.
Not saying everything's all hunky dorey at Whitmore. Just that I can see how people could fool themselves into thinking they must be the good guys cause they're against the bad guys. I never did buy that to begin with and nothing I've learned so far has made me think so now. But Yeah, it is worth discussing the differences. Especially since so many people seem to think that "Not WWASP" = "certified good and wholesome".
Give to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself - that is my doctrine.
--Thomas Paine
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Anon says "NO evidence...still open"
Well, good investigations do take time, and we parents who have our children home safely can wait for the authorities to do their job.
The parents who choose to leave their children at Whitmore during the investigation have that right and choice, too.
And of course Whitmore is still open. We do live in the United States of America, and the Sudweeks do have the right to be considered "innocent" until charged, tried in a court of law and proven otherwise. Who would want it any differently?
I would like for things to be different, myself. I would like for Mark Sudweeks to not lie and "quote" from a non-existing police report that I threw my daughter about the Whitmore so-called "Mansion" by the hair of the head. But, I don't control that man, and his lying mouth.
I would like to not be paying a psychiatrist enormous fees for my daughter's on-going therapy for problems she did not have prior to her enrollment a Whitmore Academy--but I have to. Before her placement at this abusive school, she only required a Psychologist to work on adoption issues.
I would prefer spending my computer time working on assignments in my Graduate Studies, rather than defending myself against erroneous allegations of child abuse against my daughter--
and working to help others be aware of the issues at Whitmore Academy.
After going public with our Statement with ISAC, we have accepted the responsibility of being the "contact base" of the many parents who either have students currently at Whitmore, or those who had students at Whitmore in the past.
Now these parents know how to contact authorities to present their evidence, and to tell their stories. Each parent now knows that their experience was not an "isolated incident."
The truth about Whitmore Academy will be told, and hopefully the people who have caused any damage to any child will be held accountable.
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Anon says "NO evidence...still open"
Well, good investigations do take time, and we parents who have our children home safely can wait for the authorities to do their job.
The parents who choose to leave their children at Whitmore during the investigation have that right and choice, too.
And of course Whitmore is still open. We do live in the United States of America, and the Sudweeks do have the right to be considered "innocent" until charged, tried in a court of law and proven otherwise. Who would want it any differently?
I would like for things to be different, myself. I would like for Mark Sudweeks to not lie and "quote" from a non-existing police report that I threw my daughter about the Whitmore so-called "Mansion" by the hair of the head. But, I don't control that man, and his lying mouth.
I would like to not be paying a psychiatrist enormous fees for my daughter's on-going therapy for problems she did not have prior to her enrollment a Whitmore Academy--but I have to. Before her placement at this abusive school, she only required a Psychologist to work on adoption issues.
I would prefer spending my computer time working on assignments in my Graduate Studies, rather than defending myself against erroneous allegations of child abuse against my daughter--
and working to help others be aware of the issues at Whitmore Academy.
After going public with our Statement with ISAC, we have accepted the responsibility of being the "contact base" of the many parents who either have students currently at Whitmore, or those who had students at Whitmore in the past.
Now these parents know how to contact authorities to present their evidence, and to tell their stories. Each parent now knows that their experience was not an "isolated incident."
The truth about Whitmore Academy will be told, and hopefully the people who have caused any damage to any child will be held accountable.
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And I for one thank you for taking a stand and bravely posting about your experiences dealing with these people. Because of you and others like you some parents have been able to make decisions that have spared our children from any further abuses. So CUDOS to you and the others for keeping up the good fight for the TRUTH!
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Thank you very much for your support and kind words.
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question; so when is this going to happen?
we have one parent who pulled their child in nov. '04, fact. maybe 2 families, from what i read earlier tonight? (g'mom)
ag's office is not investigating anything pertaining to whitmore, fact. i call to verify, today.
the police are not investigating whitmore, fact. i called to verify, today.
the "school" is still open, fact. i called to verify, today.
i have checked pacer from time to time and do not see anything about anyone filing or suing "whitmore", fact. verified earlier today.
i do see where the sudweeks were found guilty in canada, fact. the transcripts and court docs are on the net for public viewing.
i have read the harris affidavits on isac, fact. on the isac website.
the rest of the information is just allegations at this point, fact. because no charges have been filed by anyone publically to date?
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Yeah, essentially the same scenareo is playing out (like a broken record) in Mo these days surrounding Thayer. And, in that case, a kid is factually dead under extremely dubious circumstances while former staff and students describe routine torture of the variety that takes weeks or months for the marks to go away.
But they're still open. If you call the local police they'll tell you everything's just great there. I hear tell there may be a lawsuit, but who knows? It could turn out like the class action against WWASP or the one against Straight founders or any of a number of other attempts. These things so often don't come together for so many reasons. But then again, once in awhile a plaintif or three wins.
OTOH, Whitmore really does remind me a whole lot more of The Seed or a Meehan program than most of these other places. Meehan's getting some bad press lately, and it looks pretty serious. The Seed just shrunk down to like 20 or 30 people or less w/ a powerful inner circle and pretty much stayed static like that for around 20 years before imploding.
You can learn all you want to know about how that story ends from your neighbors over in the Seed forum: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=8&3255 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=8&3255)
No tellin' how it'll go this time. Just hunker and watch.
In war, the stronger overcomes the weaker. In business, the stronger imparts strength to the weaker.
--Frederic Bastiat
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The lawsuit against wwasp is still a go.
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Which one? I know there have been a good many individual ones. Are you talking about a class action?
A drug is neither moral nor immoral - it's a chemical compound. The compound itself is not a menace to society until a human being treats it as if consumption bestowed a temporary license to act like an asshole.
--Frank Zappa
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To Anon: So When Is This Going To Happen
I would suggest that if you are going to quote FACTS that you get a few of them CORRECT!
1) In November 2004 when the allegations of abuse were brought against Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks for abuse: 4 students were removed from Whimore Academy by their parent(s) and the boy who was abused...for a total of 5 (five).
2) The Attorney Generals Office is STILL investigating the Sudweeks for FRAUD etc. You can call Mr. Alan Sevison at 801 812-5206. He can disclose the name of his investigator, if he so chooses, that is not my choic. I know who it is because I have given a statement to this investigator. The investigation is still active.
3) The Nephi Police Department is STILL investigating the Sudweeks for child abuse and for sexual abuse. I do not know who YOU spoke with, but you are mis-informed if someone told you that the investigation for these allegations is not active. Perhaps you do not know who is the lead detective for this investigation. Perhaps the Sudweeks can give you this investigator's name.
4) I do not know what Pacer is.
The "word out there and the rumormill say" that the Sudweeks and Sue Scheff are suing me...why? I have no idea. So perhaps you can ask THEM when you might see somthing showing up on PACER, whatever that is.
5) We did not sign an AFFIDAVIT with ISAC. We made a statement. There is a big difference.
6). You stand corrected. The allegations of abuse against the Sudweeks IS BEING INVESTIGATED by the proper authorities in Utah, and as far as we know, no formal charges have been filed as of today....I might add, YET.
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On 2005-03-02 08:27:00, Joyce Harris wrote:
"I do not know what Pacer is."
Public Access to Court Electronic Records
http://pacer.psc.uscourts.gov
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Thank you for defining PACER. Perhaps some of the readership might be interested in that.
I could care less, myself.
I do not make my living, or annoy folks by going around suing people. Guess some just enjoy paying attorneys more than I do.
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1) In November 2004 when the allegations of abuse were brought against Mark and Cheryl Sudweeks for abuse: 4 students were removed from Whimore Academy by their parent(s) and the boy who was abused...for a total of 5 (five).
Response; read your own sentence. FACT: ALLEGATIONS! okay we are making some progress, for a total of five now. how many students remained? There you go again with the boy who was abused; ALLEGATIONS OF ABUSE.
2) The Attorney Generals Office is STILL investigating the Sudweeks for FRAUD etc. You can call Mr. Alan Sevison at 801 812-5206. He can disclose the name of his investigator, if he so chooses, that is not my choic. I know who it is because I have given a statement to this investigator. The investigation is still active.
Response; i called his number and left a message. so hopefully he will get back to me on this today. then i'll respond.
3) The Nephi Police Department is STILL investigating the Sudweeks for child abuse and for sexual abuse. I do not know who YOU spoke with, but you are mis-informed if someone told you that the investigation for these allegations is not active. Perhaps you do not know who is the lead detective for this investigation. Perhaps the Sudweeks can give you this investigator's name.
Response; i called the number listed on another whitmore post and spoke with the chief. nothing, zip, nada, no investigation? the only comment made by the police; there was a report some time last year. no arrests or convictions? as far as the sudweeks, i don't know them, nor do i care to know them. don't know why you assumed the connection? just looking for facts.
4) I do not know what Pacer is.
The "word out there and the rumormill say" that the Sudweeks and Sue Scheff are suing me...why? I have no idea. So perhaps you can ask THEM when you might see somthing showing up on PACER, whatever that is.
Response; "PACER" as the previous poster explains, is a tool to access public information about courts, cases, kind of a "who's who & what is going on pertaining to legal matters". i didn't ask for any rumor mill, nor do i care about such. don't care to contact sudweeks or sue. from what i have read, YOU came on here with your allegations. i assumed since YOUR family had been victimized by whitmore that you would pursue this legally. don't you want them closed, exposed and shut down to keep it from occurring again to another child? otherwise, if these are only allegations, what good are they?
5) We did not sign an AFFIDAVIT with ISAC. We made a statement. There is a big difference.
Response; now we are getting somewhere with this. FACT; an affidavit; is a sworn statement in writing under oath of facts. a statement; is an eye witness report of opinions presented on paper.
6). You stand corrected. The allegations of abuse against the Sudweeks IS BEING INVESTIGATED by the proper authorities in Utah, and as far as we know, no formal charges have been filed as of today....I might add, YET.
Response; Just the facts please; ALLEGATIONS are just that. What if; the state calls back and there is NOT an ongoing investigation? this all happened four months ago.
there is no need to correct me? i'm quoting or posting what i investigated personally. and what is stated here by YOU.
i'm just analyzing the facts of what YOU have posted here. YOU state something, then i must satisfy my curiosity by finding out if indeed i am seeing the facts of your complaint. i want to know personally that this did happen as YOU say it did. i don't want to see innocent people convicted based on ALLEGATIONS! if YOU are going to accuse them and shut them down; YOU got to have the FACTS.
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Anon Joyce Harris has given you the facts and you are wrong. Also PACER has to do with US District Courts not State Courts. There would not be any information available on PACER for any actions filed in a Utah State Court.
I suggest before you try and make any statements again you do your research and check your facts.
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HellOOOOOOOOO Anon:
Innocent people do not get found guilty by allegations!!!!
People are found GUILTY by a jury of their peers in a trial, in a court room, by evidence given by a procecutor.
And these people are usually represented by an attorney who presents their defense, IF THEY HAVE A DEFENSE TO BEGIN WITH.
Hellooooooooooooooooooooo
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Anon:
I will not continue to "argue" with you.
I have stated facts, and I do not lie.
We took no OATH. We simply wrote a statement to ISAC stating what happened to us and our daughter in our dealing with the Sudweeks at Whitmore Academy. It is a statement, period.
What we are, or are not doing legally is simply none of your business, period.
IF I HAD THE POWER, which I most certainly do not...we do live in the United States of America, you know---I would go and take the keys to Whitmore Academy away from the Sudweeks and demand that they leave this fine country, and move their happy asses to their little property that they SAY they own down in Mexico. In doing so, I would be doing a whole lot of people a favor; I would not allow them to return to this fine country of American ever again.
But I AM NOT DELUSIONAL. I do not have any powers to go ordering people out of their homes; or the power to go around closing down a person's busniness; or the power to make people move away just because I think I should.
You need to relax, check your sources, and give authorities time to do their jobs.
Do you have a kid that was abused at Whitmore?
Well, I do, and I am not running about like a wild person trying to do the things t YOU THINK I should be doing. Perhaps you would like to use your many efforts to start a legal fund for me since you think I should be off suing people and closing down schools there in Nephi, Utah. You do know that attorneys cost a whole bunch of money, and NO ONE PAYS ME to baby sit my children.
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Should parents with children currently at Whitmore Academy be concerned about the Sudweeks taking their children out of the country to Mexico while an on-going investigation for child and sexual abuse is still active?
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Sure glad I'm not the Sudweeks, living in a small town and being investigated for child abuse and sexual abuse.
Then going around and lying about a police incident report, and having people who claim to be Whitmore "supporter" post that the Nephi lied on the police report!!!
Do these people just like being branded as liars? How often does it have to be said: Mark Sudweeks LIES--- before they just go away quietly and try to let it maybe die down a little bit?
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Why won't the Sudweeks let their "supporters" read this "Keep the Peace Report?"
Why do the Whitmore parents keep asking the Harri's to post this report as if the Harri's have something to hide?
These people need to simply ask the Sudweeks to share this with them.
ISAC has printed the portion that verifies that Mark Sudweeks told them a point-blank lie.
Maybe, the Sudweeks don't want to reveal other lies they have spread?
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If the Sudweek supporters really wanted to know the truth, they would read the transcripts from the Canada Animal Abuse trial, they would read the posting by ISAC that shows Mark Sudweeks lied about Joyce Harris, and they would probably get their child away from Whitmore and ask them what really went on with Joey, and tell their kid it is OK to tell the TRUTH.
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Has anyone talked to Joey's parents? Not everyone knows about these sites. They may be home alone, and just wondering why no charges have been filed YET, and why it seems no one cares about them. And people do care, and do support them.
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they, being his parents already know the truth. and how do you file charges on something that didn't happen? falsly maybe?
the ag, police and others involved have done their investigations and concluded that nothing happened. check for your self; call the people who did the investigating. i did and was informed that their investigations uncovered nothing, so NO charges will be filed. Unless, someone knows otherwise, i'd say this case is closed.
so: i concluded; either it didn't happen OR someone disappeared from the grasses knowl under their radar?
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The Attorney General's Office does not handle criminal matters---why can't you people understand that? Mr. Sevison does not have anything to do with when, how criminal charges are filed. It is that simple, people.
The detective in charge of the case is still working, and there is STILL an investigation going on. Ask your friends the Sudweeks who he is. The charges have been totally supported by the investigator from the Department of Family Services of Utah. Ask him.
I don't think Joey is a liar, not by any means, because my daughter is one of the students that was forced by Cheryl Sudweeks, along with a teenage boy, who is still enrolled at Whitmore, to abuse this boy. Neither my daughter, nor the teenage boy is to blame. The blame lies with Cheryl Sudweeks. So, you were not there, so you do not know what happened Joey. My daughter was there, and she KNOWS. Joey was abused on several occassions, and each time it was ordered by or directly administered by Cheryl Sudweeks. Mark Sudweeks was involved in this boy being beat by a group of students too, and he knows it. My daughter saw this incident too, and the description would make your blood run cold. So YOU can call Joey a liar all you choose. But the confirmed liar in this mix has already been exposed--Mark Sudweeks continually lies from Canada across the United States. You may want to call my daughter a liar too---were you there when she was mentally, emotionally, physically, and sexually abused by the Sudweeks? You have no idea what you are talking about.
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I know "JOEY" ............He stood up and called the FARCE.PERIOD.......STAND BY AND OBSERVE THE FACTS (evidence).....
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Just a little information....JOEY is Safe.He's doing quit well in fact....He will make a very crediable witness..........because it will be the TRUTH, supported by substantial EVIDENCE..................SEE YA IN COURT..YOU CAN COUNT ON IT....
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Six volumes of interviews, statements, allegations, SUDWEEK LIES, ex cetra, ex cetra, lots of information, Several local, county, and state AGENCIES involved.........be patient...the SCAM IS UP..........the SUDWEEKS trespassed against the wrong KID............TRUTH WILL STAND against all lies...PERIOD
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The fine Citizens of UTAH don't take kindly to the SUDWEEKS type.......BOTH criminal and civil juries alike WILL send a resounding and CLEAR message that the SUDWEEKS and their kind of lies shall NOT BE TOLLERATED...........be patient.........time will reveal more and more..........too many seasoned investigators..too many lies....SUDWEEKS are about to crash and BURN>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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TRUTH is........lies are made up........can the SUDWEEKS reinvent themselves..hurry, time is short................SUDWEEKS are SINKING as they attempt to sit on their liers chair................stink of arrogance...filthly theif..........sad life...........sad wife.........
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To the ANON poster: you are saying what I keep repeating. The criminal investigation is strongly continuing. I know this from the standpoint of our involvement. I am glad to know that Joey is doing fine, and that he knows other parents and students are supporting him. The people who say the investigation is closed are wrong. Thank you for responding.
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lady you are chasing your tail. no one called anyone a liar?
i did exactly as you instructed in all of your posts. i contacted the mr. s dude from the ag's office. i called the police department and anyone else you have referenced on here.
i wasn't there for any of the allegations? no, i was not. i have read many accounts of what everyone "witnessed". you only know for sure about your venture there? yes; you posted your version. and by what your daughter tells you? yes; her version.
so no, no one has called anyone a liar. the only thing i said was; it appears all of the investigations have been concluded, that is according to all of the agencies you refered everyone to. i personnally check in with all of them.
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I am not chasing anything. I am patiently waiting for the authorities in Utah to do their job, and have all the confidence that they will do so. That is what the parents of victims do, they wait, they do not chase anyone.
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By the way, I am sure that Mr. Sevison would love be referred to as "dude." Why don't you show a little respect.
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btw; the "dude" reference wasn't out of disrespect for anyone. i can guarantee he has been called other names worse than that.
regardless, at first you were screaming that you were the victim? NOW you are implying that your daughter is the victim and you are just the parent? so which is it?
contrary to your statement you are chasing rainbows, just my opinion. you come on here screaming this and that. then discredit everyone but you and maybe two others that i have seen post. you said your piece, everyone heard you and read what is posted, so like you said; sit back and watch the out come.
however, i have attempted to verify everything you posted. i called everyone you said was investigating your alleged case, just didn't get the same results as you did, that's all.
eventually, the slander is what will be your downfall, regardless of your facts. because you don't know when to keep your mouth shut. that is the first advice your attorney should have given you.
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I do not need an attorney---the State of Utah represents my daughter thank you very much.
I have never claimed to be a victim of the Sudweeks--except for their FRAUD and false advertisement and lies.
My daughter is the victim of their abuse, not me. I could well protect myself against Cherly's physcial attacks, I'm not a 12 year old little girl..
I do not need YOU to tell me to keep my mouth shut. I can say whatever I please. Why don't the Sudweeks speak intstead of thru YOU. THEY are the ones paying big attorney fees-- and begging you parents to suppliment thier "legal slush funds in Christmas Cards" how pitiful is THAT?
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Why would you assume Mr. Sevison has been called any names at all? He appears to be a perfect gentleman to me, very professional, and doing a fine job. I most certainly would never refer to an Assistant Attorney General of any State in the United States of America as "dude." That is disrepectful, in anyone's book. Respect does go a long way. Guess I should count my blessings, you did address me as "Lady."
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let's hear it for Joey, YEA!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Hello Joyce Harris,
If any developments need to be brought to your attention or this thread.....I will post it.........check this thread from time to time.so will I............GATEKEEPER...............AMF
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Easy Does It Joyce..........the process will take more time than THEY can stand.....Truth and TIMe is on our side....GATEKEEPER
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Yup!
And here's the thing. It doesn't matter if you or I or the anon regulars around here believe there's an ongoing investigation or not. Police and prosecutors are notoriously uninterested in public opinion in matters of interest to them. Either they're doing their jobs or they're not. Either it'll wind up w/ some meaningful convictions or it won't. Doesn't matter what we think, it'll happen as it will happen either way.
Thought that is silenced is always rebellious. Majorities, of course, are often mistaken. This is why the silencing of minorities is necessarily dangerous. Criticism and dissent are the indispensable antidote to major delusions.
-- ALAN BARTH, The Loyalty of Free Men, 1951.
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And while everyone "waits to see" the web page WHO AM I DISCOVERY advertising the non-existing schools in Canada and Mexico and the glossy words and pictures are not up and enticing non-suspecting parents to enroll thier children with the Sudweeks. NOW that is good! And if a parent pulls up Whimore Academy THESE DAYS they have a whole bunch of things to read that should have red flags waving in their faces to warn them! We parents had nothing like that! Just glossy advertisments that led us wrong, and a referral service that led us even further down the wrong road. So yes, things are better already!
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Find it amazing that the Sudweeks side think only 2-3 people post here who DO NOT support the Sudweeks. If you read here regularly there are at 12-14 who use real names, or "posting names" and many ANON's. Just can't understand where they are coming from with that type of thinking. There are just a lot of folks who do not support these people, at all.
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Mark, Cheryl, why did you pull the Who Am I Discovery web page?
Why do you lie and say you have schools in Mexico and Canada when you don't?
Why?
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why are you so stupid. i was in the school 4 years ago. i lived in mexico and canada. where are you getting your info? maybe you should not assume that everything you read is true. your making an ass of u amd me
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Just asked a question, where the Who Am I Discovery page? Why has it been pulled?
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doesnt take a genious to figure that one out. PROTECT THE KIDS. isnt that the issue
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Ptotect them from what? That site was to entice parents to sign their kids up at Whitmore, nothing less.
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well well............Joey is a stand up young man that most certainly will walk into the court room, criminal...civil.........but certainly a court of law.....punitive or tort????...you guess....both you say.........even money is scared...........I say CHERYL goes mental............winds of change.......graduation will be surreal...are the here to observe...or are they OBSERVING ME/????........ :idea:Posted: 2005-03-30 23:05:00
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I agree. I turned these people in over 3 years ago, in January of 2002. NOTHING, I repeat NOTHING was done. No one listened. It was my fault for not checking them out better.
I am so glad that the public is finally seeing who they are. I am saddened that they have been allow to steal our money and hurt our children. It has been frustrating for me to continue to see that nothing was done about these people. I hope that people who still have their kids with the Sudweeks will one day be able to see clearly about who they are. Try not to be angry at us who are speaking against them, we are only doing so from experience.
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all nighter CHERYL.........???...pathetic...............want a p&j sandwich???.....you in you underwear??????????.....give it up LIAR, steeling money from, what??? three familys........heard you TOLD TORI you gave all the families their money back..LIAR!!!........only the self absorbed trailer trash would continue to support you..............stand by........JUDGEMENT on EARTH is comming........GO JOEY!!!!!!!!
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Anon: Something will be done this time. Too many parents speaking up. The attorney generals office, John Kimble, is pursuing its investigation for Fraud etc. Detective John Kimball is pursuring his investigation for child abuse. Parents are talking to attorneys. The Suds are involved in trying to get their permit: See topic: PUBLIC NOTICE. The Suds think it is "business as usual."
Cheryl will be back posting as EVERYBODY.
Notice how quiet things were when her raving self was off seemingly scamming everybody down in Mexico? Sneaking those kids into a resort---how pitiful is that? Begging their way into pitching tents at a RV Park?? Velcro some wheels on the "Whitmore Mansion" and she'd be right at home--Miss Trailer Trash USA!!!!!
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Hope those kids are OK at the Whitmore. WHO EVER HEARD of making a bunch of kids sleep UNDER a bus? Damn!
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The poster yesterday wanted to "rehash" this incident. Please read AGAIN, if interested!
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The Truth HAS prevailed.
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What truth do you refer to?
IF IT IS JOEY'S TRUTH.....then AMEN!
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On 2005-05-04 20:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What truth do you refer to?
IF IT IS JOEY'S TRUTH.....then AMEN!"
say AMEN..show her the light.......he's a wimp..dances as her chi(U)mp.......she don't care.standing in her underwear.I swear.she'll dance again......IN THE PIN>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LOL
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AMF?.give it a rest?..obsessed with Cheryl?.must see her fail?.can?t think of anything else ?.baby kangaroo, who do you do?AMF??? Give it a rest! :wave:
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focused on SUDWEEKS trash.tired of them giving me a rash.....TWEAKER just a nasty pig....he's a PEEK ER.chump on a rope......she's into the kids dope..he peeks on the sweets..........going to investg8 them all.....criminal and civil falls....MATT can't wait.to see ASYLUM from his tailgate..............AMF
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AMF -- element of surprise -- lots of satisfaction -- aces in the hole.
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MATT THE LAWYER will earn his money on this one....imagine having to sift through all the Suds' lies, tales, distortions. He better please or he might just see the raving Cheryl in action! He will have to hear the truth from others.
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On 2005-03-08 20:47:00, Anonymous wrote:
"TRUTH is........lies are made up........can the SUDWEEKS reinvent themselves..hurry, time is short................SUDWEEKS are SINKING as they attempt to sit on their liers chair................stink of arrogance...filthly theif..........sad life...........sad wife......... "
serving the TRUTH.....where are you....CLAN'S hands???.....LOL
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On 2005-03-08 20:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Just a little information....JOEY is Safe.He's doing quit well in fact....He will make a very crediable witness..........because it will be the TRUTH, supported by substantial EVIDENCE..................SEE YA IN COURT..YOU CAN COUNT ON IT.... "
NOTHINGS CHANGED HERE.....COME OUT COME OUT WHERE EVER YOU ARE!!!....LOL