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Messages - thomasC

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1
Thought Reform / Re: Does thought reform create arrogance?
« on: December 12, 2011, 02:48:29 PM »
With the "demand for purity" and "in/out group" thinking necessary for a good brain scrub, I can understand why CURRENT cult members are going to behave that way (look at videos of Scilons on Youtube, for example), but a "re-education" type program is different.  We were only there for a limited amount of time, so anyone still acting like this is doing so freely without any ongoing outside pressure.

2
Thought Reform / Does thought reform create arrogance?
« on: December 12, 2011, 02:31:28 PM »
Do you think thought reform programs create arrogance with the peer group/level structure, or do arrogant people simply take better to the program environment? I ask because I have noticed all survivors of the TTI I've ever seen on the internet who defend/justify their programs, regardless of what their STATED attitudes toward them are , inevitably reveal themselves to be confrontational, condescending programmees, who will spout program lingo/thought terminating cliches whenever their beloved program is the least bit threatened by a comment on the internet. In some of the program groups I've belonged to if someone suggested they suffered some long term negative consequences of the program like PTSD, family trouble, etc. they would get immediately pounced on by these people telling them "LOOKS LIKE YOU LEARNED ACCOUNTABILITY!" "WHY DON'T YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT YOU DID TO GET SENT THERE IN THE FIRST PLACE!" "YOU'RE PLAYING VICTIM, GET OVER IT!" "WHY DON'T YOU TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOURSELF AND MOVE ON!"

The other weird thing I noticed is that a lot of them claim they didn't like the program, that they thought the thought reform aspects were stupid and didn't have an affect on them, and that they invariably claim to have MOVED ON. I don't remember ever being specifically told to MOVE ON after the program and not think about it, although we were told to do that with rape, childhood abuse, etc. What it seems to do is actually convinced the programmee that nobody cares about their suffering, that the "mature" way to deal with bad memories is to not think about them/pretend they didn't affect you.  That ends up protecting the program, because if it takes 5-10 years (or longer, or never) for a person to shake those messages off, they get away with all the abuse by convincing kids to "move on" from it.

Essentially this is a chicken or egg question.  Were people who felt they were superior to others before the program cling to it because it gave them an outlet to tear other people down, or did  the program create these sad souls who then became attached to this way of relating to people and years later are still trying to justify their change to themselves?

3
Web forum hosting / Re: Mark1986 is Whooter
« on: April 19, 2011, 07:20:27 PM »
YOU ARE A HUGE CREEP.  I BET EVERYONE WHO KNOWS YOU SEES THROUGH YOUR PATHETIC MASK.

4
Web forum hosting / Re: Mark1986 is Whooter
« on: April 19, 2011, 07:17:36 PM »
Quote from: "Marc1986"
Quote from: "Pile of Dead Kids"
And the recording of this conversation is not on Youtube because..?

My guess is: It never happened.  My exprience so far here on fornits is that there is a lot of wishful thinking and people trying to guess who each other is, seems to be a past time for many.   From what I have read here if someone could somehow connect this Whooter guy to John Reuben it would solidify everyones suspisions and you could put it to rest.  If a youtube of the conversation could be captured and then replayed over a video of this guy running a marathon or something it would be priceless.  PODKs, maybe you should try calling this guy and then recording it.

Fornits looks like an interesting site so far.  I was fooled by the PARODY posters a few times.  I am guessing that maybe they are here to keep the conversation going or break up areguments like admins do on other sites.  Does anyone know if all the PARODY posters are the same person?
Marc

DO YOU THINK WE ARE RETARDED??? ARE YOU????

 :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:  :beat:

5
The Troubled Teen Industry / Re: What is a parent to do?
« on: April 19, 2011, 01:32:52 PM »
Let's skip to the important part:

Quote from: "Torn"
Are there *any* programs which would be considered acceptable?

No.

I don't know your daughter.  I'm not a parenting expert.  All I can tell you is that the program is not and never will be the answer.  Nobody deserves it.  In many cases death row prisoners have it easier.

See if you can get her talking to older girls.  As terrifying as this is for you as a parent, it's still part of being a teen.  The only reason 'the program' appears to have any effect is that nearly all of us mature out of this phase on our own.  Don't let a program sales person convince you that your daughter is dead if you don't have her carted off tomorrow.  Unless you think your daughter is into IV drugs, painkillers, prostitution, is suicidal, or has already overdosed you have more time than you think.  Lots of teenagers experiment with sex and drugs.  This isn't the end of the world.  Making her feel like you accept her and genuinely care about her well-being (and not just her behavior) would go a long way.  I can't tell you how to do that.

I can tell you that sending her to the program will send the exact opposite message, and whatever insecurities she has now will have been multiplied 10 fold by the time she gets out.  She will never be able to trust you or any other adult again, and will probably attempt to escape you completely by moving in with her friends or an older boy.  By sending her to the program, you will have validated every negative feeling she ever had for you.

6
Given WWASPS history, and the fact that both the parent on the original Tico Times article and the WWASPS troll on the updated version refer to the psychologists who reported the program to authorities as "disgruntled", it would not be surprising if the owners have sent out a memo to all parents with all the usual excuses about abusive authorities and so on.  If we come into contact with any parents we should ask them for this letter.

7
Comment on updated Tico Times article by WWASPS troll.  Where the fuck do these people come from? Were they just not hugged enough when they were kids or something?

Quote
Wow interesting but inaccurate report including:

"Bob" Lichfield had nothing to do with the ownership, operation or etc of this business.

Students had two individual therapeutic sessions weekly and several adolescent group sessions weekly. Hence the need for the Psychologists who later became disgruntled and stole equipment including expensive phones and computers. The psychologists Ricardo Wlaker, Karen Carprio and Soledad Giacobbe. While the therapy may not have been effective due to the incompetence of these therapists it is an uncontested fact that it took place.

Please list in detail the "Physical, Psychological abuse and verbal mistreatment. Include who, where, when and etc. Please note that it is an uncontested fact that Ricardo Walker was the clinical director of the facility and oversaw the food service, employee training, and discipline measures of the facility.

There were students from 13-18 years old

All students signed agreements that they chose to be at mentor teen (no mention)

Several reports by the students the psychologist and Pani "brainwashing the students". And making it very difficult for their return home. Several flights were outright missed by their mismanagement.

Several students told Pani and other officials they would like to continue the program

Mentor had a very effective recreational program including trips to Manuel Antonio, weekly movies, zip lines, crocodile tours, sea turtle releases, surfing, trips to the mall, and several trips to Jaco city and beach.

The government entered the facility with around 60 people illegally without a court order. When told such, they pretty much strong armed their way in and left absolutely zero due process.

Allegations are easy to make print and say yet where is the evidence?

To think that dozens of Costa Rica citizens would be involved in mistreatment of students is an insult to the hard working people that took great care of the students at the facility.

8
Quote from: "Sam Kinison"
Narvin Lichfield, who was the director at the time of the facility's closure, was jailed in Costa Rica for a brief period at the time of the closure. He was later tried in Costa Rica on charges of coercion, holding minors against their will, and "crimes of an international character" (violating a law based on international treaties, specifically referring to torture).

If they were charging him with UN Crimes,they had a serious hard-on for him.How many people do you personally know,or even know of that has ever been charged with a crime against humanity?
In Costa Rica,they use a judge to control proceedings and magistrates,instead of a jury,to examine the evidence.The prosecutor probably did not present a strong enough case.Even so,Mr. Lichfield would be well advised never to return here,or the next charges might just stick.

Wrong.  The school was reopened by Narvin Lichfield as Pillars of Hope.  I believe he still owns a horse farm in Costa Rica as well.

9
Seems like I've heard this story somewhere before...

English article:
http://http://www.insidecostarica.com/dailynews/2011/march/22/costarica11032204.htm
Quote
PANI Rescues 20 Young Americans Who Suffered Various Attacks

The Patronato Nacional de la Infancia (PANI) - Costa Rica's child welfare agency - says it rescued on Monday a group of 20 American minors who allegedly received psychological and physical abuse by managers of a reformatory in Puntarenas.

The academy "Teen Mentor" has been operating since 2010 in the Hotel Carra in Tarcoles de Garabito, Puntarenas.

The PANI took the action to intervene following complaints from three psychologists at the academy. Ten children were transferred directly to a PANI shelter, while the case is still in under investigation.

Parents paid from us$600 per month to keep their children between the ages of 13 and 18 in the program.

PANI officials say all the youths found in the academy on Monday were all Americans.

Jorge Urbina, manager of the PANI, told the media on Monday that the U.S. Embassy in San José was in the process of notifying all the parents to come get theri children.

http://http://www.nacion.com/2011-03-22/Sucesos/NotaPrincipal/Sucesos2722171.aspx

Need someone to translate this one. Some details from this article according to some machine translation:

The academy was closed after complaints from three psychologists who had worked at the program to PANI.
There were 21 minors in the program
The allegations involve physical and psychological abuse, isolation, severed communication between students and their families, lack of medical supervision, lack of proper education, lack of recreation programs promised by the school's advertising
The program lacked the proper permits to operate in Costa Rica
The corporation registered as owning the school lists Robert Walter Lichfield as owner, article speculates as to relationship between this person and former PIllars of Hope/Dundee Ranch (also raided by authorities) owner Narvin Lichfield
A PANI official is quoted saying that children were forced to sign a document stating they were at the school of their own free will, threatened with 8 days in an isolation room if they did not comply.

10
I remember "butt hurt" from my program days.  Isn't it sad how they get you to accept the programming by making you feel special for having submitted to it?  Getting you to be an asshole for the program's sake like they were to you when you first got there?  That's the real effect of having gone through the program.  They replace whatever personality you had when you came in with that same elitist cult personality that you find in Scientologists, Marines, etc.

I still have those dreams, too.  It isn't always the same staff, the same program, whatever.  It's the same environment of complete domination, the same helpless, hopeless feeling, and I have been trying to escape it in my dreams for 5 years now.  The actual events aren't as important to this trauma as the feeling of being completely isolated, having lost everything you thought you knew, all of your safety, your belief in a just world, your ability to influence your surroundings and so on.

11
Founder uncertain about future of boarding school in Abbeville County
http://http://www.independentmail.com/news/2011/feb/05/founder-uncertain-about-future-boarding-school-abb/?partner=RSS

Quote
Abbeville County sheriff’s deputies stopped Lichfield near the campus of the former Carolina Springs Academy boarding school, which Lichfield founded, north of Due West at 3:30 p.m. Jan. 28, according to sheriff’s office records. Lichfield was taken into custody after the deputies determined he was driving with a suspended license and that his green Nissan sport utility vehicle was uninsured.

...

Quote
Saying he was unaware that his license had been suspended because of an unpaid parking ticket, Lichfield also said he has been unfairly targeted by the Abbeville County Sheriff’s Office.

12
Elan School / Re: Something weird happened while discussing a topic on FB.
« on: February 02, 2011, 06:58:21 PM »
It is entirely possible that even though he is denying his actions, he is able to preserve his innocence internally because at the time he was able to convince himself that he was 100% justified.

He could also be a sociopath like our dear friend Who.  In which case NOTHING he says here should be taken at face value, and only seen as attempts to whitewash programs and escape consequences for his actions.

13
Ryan Pate's Blog post

http://http://letsmokeweed.blogspot.com/2010/02/great-escape-based-on-true-story.html

I do believe I have heard this story somewhere before, specifically the portion about running into a KKK gathering during the run.

15
Yeah,  yeah. I know.  I shouldn't even bother responding to you.

Quote from: "Whooter"
At the programs I am familiar with if you break the rules you will be kicked out so it is fairly easy to get out if you want to.

Breaking the rules, running away, or getting in fights was grounds for being sent to a isolation room with a plank of wood to sleep on and no bathroom.  Being sent there enough times (or doing something really daring) would get you sent to Tranquility Bay.  The enrollment agreement stated kids could be sent to Jamaica at the staff's discretion with 72 hours notice.  If the parents could not be contacted within this time frame they had the authority to send the kid there without explicit permission.

Quote from: "Whooter"
The best course for any kid would be to take advantage of their time in the program, move ahead with their academics . . .

My program had fake accreditation.  The textbooks were tattered, vandalized, and 10 years out of date.  The 'teachers' were there to grade tests.  I could finish an entire 'class' in about 3 days.  I learned nothing and gained nothing.

Quote from: "Whooter"
. . . work with their therapist on personal issues . . .

My 'therapist' accused me of manipulating when I asked if she could help me contact my father - who was unaware I had even been sent to a program - and told everything I said to the program staff.  She was the one who informed me I could be set to Jamaica on a whim(where, in her words "the Jamaican Mamas sit on you".)

Quote from: "Whooter"
. . . and graduate a stronger more focused person.

Yeah.  If dissociation is a life skill.

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