Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: mamala on October 04, 2007, 06:18:25 PM
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Anyone have any experience or info on this place? Is making a kid sit and write all day with out being able to lay down or have a pillow abusive?
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Yes
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Sounds like a wwasps or CEDU/Aspen thing in regards to the writing.
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any other info on Heritage in provo would be appreciated....former residents or parents...anything.
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Look, I was at Heritage years ago.........and they were actually well organized, the staff was trained, and they had a great campus. Yes, it was more expensive then some RTC's out there, but at least they put their money back into the program giving it great facilities, and things for the kids to do.
I have spoken with kids who have recently been there, and even though it is considered to be a "RTC" they are more lax then when I was there for 3 1/2 years back in 1989. They have expanded on their facilities. When I was there we had a full stables full of horses with a trainer who taught us to ride, I even participated, and won some shows on BYU's campus which were open to the public, they had a softball field, a pool with a kick ass slide that was made outta real concrete, and in the winter they covered the pool with this enclosure so we still could use it. We has a volleyball court. Geez we had a lot! Now, they have a theater where they do their drama performances.
This place is a well oiled machine, they have individual therapy, group therapy like clockwork with people who cared. I mean there was never a time when I missed a session! I'm just going to say it was consistent, and quality.
I have to defend this program, sorry! It's what kids who do have problems could benefit from.
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Do they keep kids without problems there anyway against their will?
Do they isolate ANYONE from the outside world, or legal representation?
Do they only hold people there captive who have a medical need to be?
LGATs? Restraints? Levels?
Sorry, I don't care if its Hogwarts, but those things can't be justified anywhere, even if they give everyone hookers and blow at the end of the day.
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Do they keep kids without problems there anyway against their will?
No they dont
Do they isolate ANYONE from the outside world, or legal representation?
No isolation is considered or done
Do they only hold people there captive who have a medical need to be?
No you must be thinking of anothe place. no one is held.
LGATs? Restraints? Levels?
No, but thanks for asking. Most kids do okay after they leave. You should pay attention.
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No, but thanks for asking. Most kids do okay after they leave. You should pay attention.
::fu:: ::fu:: ::fu:: ::fu::
Where the hell was that question answered fuckwad?
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http://www.heal-online.org/childtortureusa.htm#heritage (http://www.heal-online.org/childtortureusa.htm#heritage)
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http://www.heal-online.org/childtortureusa.htm#heritage
Heritage House (aka The Heritage Schools) is located in Provo, UT and is highly suspected of being an abusive behavior modification program. HEAL downloaded the Heritage House admissions forms. Things they consider to be extreme behavioral problems in need of immediate intervention include: "cursing, challenging authority, homosexuality--but, they call it "sexual identity distress", sad/unhappy, argues, noncompliant, impulsive, overreacts, secretive (shows a need for privacy), stubborn, does not accept criticism, etc." These are all normal parts of growing up, establishing independence, and growing into one's own individuality/self. Heritage House uses physical restraints. In the contract, Heritage House explains that they control teen's contact with outside world including telephone privileges and monitoring incoming and outgoing mail (this is a civil rights violation, it violates the 4th, 8th, and 14th, amendments according to the Federal Court who has placed federal injunctions against this practice at other programs.) In the contract, "You have the right to refuse to participate in any research project". This is the parent's right, but, it does not apply to the teen. It suggests, and HEAL has other paperwork that confirms, that many of these programs are experimenting on the youth in them. Heritage House also uses "seclusion" as a punishment/disciplinary tool. Seclusion is solitary confinement and in many programs can last for months and permanently disable the child/teen mentally. Heritage House identifies their inmates by number, not name, like Provo Canyon School and like Nazi Germany. We recommend you do not subject your child to Heritage House. If you were abused or had your rights violated at Heritage House, please contact us and we will share your story here as a warning to others.
Umm......
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Two very large thumbs up for this program!
not.
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Oh that's right, I forgot! You are all fucking experts even though, you have never been there!!!!! My bad, you're right, what was I thinking? It's just plain awful, oh they do the most horrible things to kids. So horrible, I can't even begin to talk about them!
The funny thing is, I was one of the worst kids there. You ask any of the staff/owners/therapists who are still there, or used to work there, and they know who I am. I was a real pain in the ass! It wasn't like I just coasted through the program. I put up a huge fight, there were several times I was physically restrained. But, I asked for it! I was never hurt in the process, and it was so I wouldn't hurt other students or staff. Sorry, but I can't fault them for that, and say they were abusive because they put there hands on me!
What were they supposed to do if I was wailing on a staff member? Or going after another student? Just sit back, and let it happen? Take bets? Sometimes you guys here are way too much!!!!!
This program is just fine, you are wasting your time trying to dig up dirt on this place.
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So what about the Heal information do you dispute?
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This program is just fine
How do you know this?
I'll trust HEAL, thank you very much!
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WARNING!!! MOST OF THIS IS COMPLETE BULLSHIT!
Heritage House (aka The Heritage Schools) is located in Provo, UT and is highly suspected of being an abusive behavior modification program. HEAL downloaded the Heritage House admissions forms. Things they consider to be extreme behavioral problems in need of immediate intervention include: "cursing, challenging authority, homosexuality--but, they call it "sexual identity distress", sad/unhappy, argues, noncompliant, impulsive, overreacts, secretive (shows a need for privacy), stubborn, does not accept criticism, etc." These are all normal parts of growing up, establishing independence, and growing into one's own individuality/self. Heritage House uses physical restraints. In the contract, Heritage House explains that they control teen's contact with outside world including telephone privileges and monitoring incoming and outgoing mail (this is a civil rights violation, it violates the 4th, 8th, and 14th, amendments according to the Federal Court who has placed federal injunctions against this practice at other programs.) In the contract, "You have the right to refuse to participate in any research project". This is the parent's right, but, it does not apply to the teen. It suggests, and HEAL has other paperwork that confirms, that many of these programs are experimenting on the youth in them. Heritage House also uses "seclusion" as a punishment/disciplinary tool. Seclusion is solitary confinement and in many programs can last for months and permanently disable the child/teen mentally. Heritage House identifies their inmates by number, not name, like Provo Canyon School and like Nazi Germany. We recommend you do not subject your child to Heritage House. If you were abused or had your rights violated at Heritage House, please contact us and we will share your story here as a warning to others.
FIRST OF ALL IT SAYS IT'S HIGHLY SUSPECTED OF BEING AN ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION PROGRAM. NOT THAT IT IS ONE.
SECOND OF ALL IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME WHAT THE ADMISSION FORMS SAY. A LOT OF THIS THEY HAVE HAD TO PUT INTO A LEGAL CONTRACT TO COVER THEIR ASSES IN CASE THEY HAD A TEEN THAT WAS TOTALLY OUTTA CONTROL, AND NEEDED TO USE RESTRAINTS! THEY WERE NEVER RESTRAINT HAPPY! I NEVER WITNESSED, OR HEARD OF ANYONE BEING PUT IN JACKETS OR TIE DOWNS! IT DOES NOT MEAN THAT THEY DID NOT HAVE THEM, THEY DID. BUT, THE WHOLE 3 1/2 YEARS I WAS THERE THEY NEVER USED THEM.
THIRDLY, SO THEY USED ISOLATION AS A FORM OF PUNISHMENT? THEY DIDN'T WANT OUR NEGATIVE OUT OF CONTROL BEHAVIOR TO AFFECT THE OTHER KIDS IN THE PROGRAM THAT MAYBE HAD A PAST HISTORY OF ABUSE, AND THEY DIDN'T NEED TO BE SUBJECTED TO OUR OUTBURSTS! THEY NEVER GOT OFF ON HAVING TO PUT US IN CRISIS, OR ISOLATION.
FOURTH, SO WHAT IF THEY WENT THROUGH OUR MAIL? HELLO, THEY DID NOT WANT DRUGS MAKING IT THROUGH. SOME KIDS WERE FLIGHT RISKS, AND SOME MAIL WAS READ. BUT, THEY DID THIS ALL TO PROTECT US. HELL, AT LEAST WE WERE TO RECEIVE MAIL FROM FRIENDS! THEY NEVER READ OUT GOING MAIL! AS FAR AS THE PHONE THING WENT, IT'S TRUE WE WERE ONLY ALLOWED TO TALK TO OUR PARENTS, AND FAMILY MEMBERS ONCE A WEEK.
AND LAST, BUT NOT LEAST, MY FAVORITE! WE WERE NEVER REFERRED TO BY NUMBER. WE WERE REFERRED BY NAME. THE KIDS THERE STILL ARE. THAT IS SUCH A GOD DAMN LIE. HOW PATHETIC TO MAKE UP SUCH BULLSHIT ABOUT A PLACE LIKE THAT!
GO AFTER PROGRAMS THAT ARE ABUSIVE, NOT ONES THAT ARE NOT!
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Why were you there 3 1/2 years?
That seems like an awful long time for a teen to spend in any program.
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WHOA...all CAPS screaming, all these curse words....you've come a long way, haven't you?
Sure speaks well of this program's sucess with troubled teens!
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I am so sorry that your virgin eyes had to see the word shit appear twice in my last post! Whoops, oh shit, that makes it three, sorry my bad, four!!!!!
The reason for me using all caps was so that it would stand out from all the other lies that were on there. Wasn't the first time that has been done by people on here, not the last, get over it!
You're right, that place sucks, it couldn't even get me to stop using curse words. What good is a RTC if that can't even cure the simplest case of potty mouth for good?!! You know what, forget it! Don't waste your money on that dump!
Is that more along the lines of what you wanted to hear? Fabulous, there you have it! Happy now?
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I am so sorry that your virgin eyes had to see the word shit appear twice in my last post! Whoops, oh shit, that makes it three, sorry my bad, four!!!!!
The reason for me using all caps was so that it would stand out from all the other lies that were on there. Wasn't the first time that has been done by people on here, not the last, get over it!
You're right, that place sucks, it couldn't even get me to stop using curse words. What good is a RTC if that can't even cure the simplest case of potty mouth for good?!! You know what, forget it! Don't waste your money on that dump!
Is that more along the lines of what you wanted to hear? Fabulous, there you have it! Happy now?
Ha,Ha,Ha..... that is funny!! Love reading your posts, CCM
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Guess Miss Potty-Mouth missed the "God Damn, asses, bullshit, hell, etc...." Fine. WHO is correct, she is entertaining.
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Thanks Who! It's nice to have you back BTW. It was getting rather boring around here without you. So, welcome back!!! I think it's refreshing, and healthy to have different points of view. I am sure you would agree, right?
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Thanks Who! It's nice to have you back BTW. It was getting rather boring around here without you. So, welcome back!!! I think it's refreshing, and healthy to have different points of view. I am sure you would agree, right?[/quote
I think I'm gonna be sick.
::puke::
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Guess Miss Potty-Mouth missed the "God Damn, asses, bullshit, hell, etc...." Fine. WHO is correct, she is entertaining.
I think I have used every single swear word in the last two years I have been on here, at one time or another, in my posts, but I think what the poster was pointing out was all the swear words I had used in the last post with the ALL CAPS! Hey, whatever! My potty typing is so minor compared to most the people on here. So, once again get over it!!!!!
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I think I have used every single swear word in the last two years I have been on here, at one time or another, in my posts, but I think what the poster was pointing out was all the swear words I had used in the last post with the ALL CAPS! Hey, whatever! My potty typing is so minor compared to most the people on here. So, once again get over it!!!!!
Why don't you get over the fact that some of us have a problem with your precious fucking program. Shit girl, you're reaction is identical to those of the cultists who criticize their gurus.
YOU get over it!
::fu::
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Thanks Who! It's nice to have you back BTW. It was getting rather boring around here without you. So, welcome back!!! I think it's refreshing, and healthy to have different points of view. I am sure you would agree, right?
Yes, I do...that is one of the reasons I stick around, thanks
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Guess Miss Potty-Mouth missed the "God Damn, asses, bullshit, hell, etc...." Fine. WHO is correct, she is entertaining.
Was I really supposed to sit there with a fine toothed comb, and count the number of times I used a naughty word in my post? Puhleese!!!! You have way too much time on your hands. The kids need you back in the classroom to grade all their papers.
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Awww, idn't it cute?? Hey! Maybe CCMgirl and Who will start their own program! Maybe they'll start a referral service to safe programs!
Yeah! That's the ticket!
:roll: ::puke::
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Hey Who,
Just PM me later so we can discuss all of our plans to get in this business so we can start making some real money!!! Also, I don't know about you Who, but for me I am really excited at the thought of reprogramming all these screwed up kids! Yeah, that's right beating them down mentally, and physically! Then building them up just the way they the should have been in the first place to be fine upstanding citizens. That's what really gets me off!!! Then, throw in some seminars. Oh, I have this really great new guy that actually combines electric shock therapy into the whole mix so you can watch kids, as well as the parents get all lit up if they don't tell the truth of how they really feel, and expose everything about there past!
You guys sometimes are way too much! All I am saying is that from my personal experience of this RTC, and from the girls I talk to that have recently gotten out, that it's nothing like the way it's being painted on that Heal site. Also, I spoke to one of my friends from the program for about an hour, and she disagrees with what Heal had to say too.
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Thanks CCM, but we still believe HEAL, and not you.
It's due to the fact that you seriously can't make this shit up.
Thanks for playing.
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You guys sometimes are way too much! All I am saying is that from my personal experience of this RTC, and from the girls I talk to that have recently gotten out, that it's nothing like the way it's being painted on that Heal site. Also, I spoke to one of my friends from the program for about an hour, and she disagrees with what Heal had to say too.
Well then, that settles it! Gee, I wonder if its anything like the kids who got out of Straight or WWASPS programs that were swearing it saved their lives?
Get over yourself.
:roll:
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Oh, I forgot to mention.....there will be others that will be needed. Who, and I can't do it all by ourselves! We need some folks that are handy with handcuffs that can do some escorting. Or shall I say, teen transporting, or kidnapping whatever you want to call it? Sometimes people get a little confused when handcuffs, and escorting are used in the same sentence. Just wanted to clarify!
Next needed, would be a few Administrative Staff (glorified telemarketers) to sell the program. A couple "therapists" will also be needed, those without a degree are encourage to apply, you don't really need to have a real degree, will just print one up, and frame it so people will just think you've got it! Unfortunately, we are just going to have to pay you a lot less then a real therapist. But, that just means more money in our pockets. That's not a bad thing, come on people! This is a business, you can't expect us not to make a profit?!!!
I could go on, and on! But, I think what's most important is that people know the truth. That it is not an abusive facility. Psssst......take it from someone who has actually been there (me) not all these other freaks who think they know it all. Because in regards to this subject they clearly do not.
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wow, i didn't mean to start a war here. heritage is not, by far, the worst. no one has died there and i haven't run into anyone who is evil, except the guy who is the psychiatrist and isn't really even a medical doctor and had had his license taken away. they just seem stupid and the right arm of the mormon church. there isn't a psychologist among them just a bunch of social workers and they aren't therapists, are they?.
they only look at mail to see if there is contraband. they assign numbers for security to make sure the wrong people don't call the kid. i am scared about putting kids in a room and making them stand with no socks or write all day without being able to lay down or have a pillow and then they do something humiliating with what was written. some staff punched kids but they were fired.
they are scary people to me because they try to control parents and kids with the mormon thing and that is spooky. no one left there has any experience and it is run by mormon robots but i'm not sure they are cruel to kids and a lot of them who are not suits and really work with kids seem to care, even if they don't know much.
its like a mormon stepford and that spooks me. do they try to get kids to stay in utah?
i'm not even sure HEAL is talking about this heritage because there is at least one other school named heritage.
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Why 3 1/2 years, that seems like a really long time to be in a program CCM?
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Mamala, it's starting to sounds as if someone you care about is in that place.
Recommend strongly that you get whoever that person is the fuck out, right now, and then start asking questions.
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wow, i didn't mean to start a war here. heritage is not, by far, the worst. no one has died there and i haven't run into anyone who is evil, except the guy who is the psychiatrist and isn't really even a medical doctor and had had his license taken away. they just seem stupid and the right arm of the mormon church. there isn't a psychologist among them just a bunch of social workers and they aren't therapists, are they?.
And, Mamala you need someone to verify this facility just MIGHT have some problems?
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Oh, I forgot to mention.....there will be others that will be needed. Who, and I can't do it all by ourselves! We need some folks that are handy with handcuffs that can do some escorting. Or shall I say, teen transporting, or kidnapping whatever you want to call it? Sometimes people get a little confused when handcuffs, and escorting are used in the same sentence. Just wanted to clarify!
Next needed, would be a few Administrative Staff (glorified telemarketers) to sell the program. A couple "therapists" will also be needed, those without a degree are encourage to apply, you don't really need to have a real degree, will just print one up, and frame it so people will just think you've got it! Unfortunately, we are just going to have to pay you a lot less then a real therapist. But, that just means more money in our pockets. That's not a bad thing, come on people! This is a business, you can't expect us not to make a profit?!!!
I could go on, and on! But, I think what's most important is that people know the truth. That it is not an abusive facility. Psssst......take it from someone who has actually been there (me) not all these other freaks who think they know it all. Because in regards to this subject they clearly do not.
Yeah, real fucking funny. You having fun CCM girl? :roll: God I hope so cuz you sure are making a lot of us sick.
::puke::
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Why 3 1/2 years, that seems like a really long time to be in a program CCM?
Excellent question. I wonder why she's ignoring it?
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wow, i didn't mean to start a war here. heritage is not, by far, the worst. no one has died there and i haven't run into anyone who is evil, except the guy who is the psychiatrist and isn't really even a medical doctor and had had his license taken away. they just seem stupid and the right arm of the mormon church. there isn't a psychologist among them just a bunch of social workers and they aren't therapists, are they?.
they only look at mail to see if there is contraband. they assign numbers for security to make sure the wrong people don't call the kid. i am scared about putting kids in a room and making them stand with no socks or write all day without being able to lay down or have a pillow and then they do something humiliating with what was written. some staff punched kids but they were fired.
they are scary people to me because they try to control parents and kids with the mormon thing and that is spooky. no one left there has any experience and it is run by mormon robots but i'm not sure they are cruel to kids and a lot of them who are not suits and really work with kids seem to care, even if they don't know much.
its like a mormon stepford and that spooks me. do they try to get kids to stay in utah?
i'm not even sure HEAL is talking about this heritage because there is at least one other school named heritage.
Could you explain this in more detail?
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wow, i didn't mean to start a war here. heritage is not, by far, the worst. no one has died there and i haven't run into anyone who is evil, except the guy who is the psychiatrist and isn't really even a medical doctor and had had his license taken away. they just seem stupid and the right arm of the mormon church. there isn't a psychologist among them just a bunch of social workers and they aren't therapists, are they?.
And, Mamala you need someone to verify this facility just MIGHT have some problems?
Quote for ultimate truth.
GET WHOEVER IT IS THE FUCK OUT. NOW.
This cannot be put in any stronger terms. You have no reason to expect anything but brainwashing, and if not physical abuse, then the horrors of psychological conditioning. This isn't fucking Tiddlywinks here. It's a coin toss between a brainwashed piece of meat and a kid who wants to kill you.
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Mamala, was your son previously in a Texas program; and then placed in Discovery Academy there in Provo, Utah; or perhaps you're being confused with another poster?
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Why 3 1/2 years, that seems like a really long time to be in a program CCM?
Like I said before, it was a complete waste of time, and money! God, 3 1/2 years, and I still use such fowl language. That place sucks!!!
Hey, maybe they'll make an exception, and take me back for another 3 1/2 years to see if they can't cure me of it?
Note to self: Call Heritage to see if that's possible, then call Dad to see if he'll foot the bill?
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I thought you posted that your elderly father died?
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You don't think locking up your daughter for over four years , basically their entire young adult life, is abusive? Even if you were treated well by your guardians? Why were you sent away for so long, and why didn't they send you home earlier?
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I could go on, and on! But, I think what's most important is that people know the truth. That it is not an abusive facility. Psssst......take it from someone who has actually been there (me) not all these other freaks who think they know it all. Because in regards to this subject they clearly do not.
Remember the kids who came to defend Spring Creek when a kid's g/f was trying to get him out?
Remember the kids who defended Cheryl Sudweeks AS SHE WAS BEING CHARGED WITH ABUSE?
Remember the kids who defended Thayer?
Remember the kids who defended Cross Creek?
They were all "there" too.
:roll:
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Why 3 1/2 years, that seems like a really long time to be in a program CCM?
Like I said before, it was a complete waste of time, and money! God, 3 1/2 years, and I still use such fowl language. That place sucks!!!
Hey, maybe they'll make an exception, and take me back for another 3 1/2 years to see if they can't cure me of it?
Note to self: Call Heritage to see if that's possible, then call Dad to see if he'll foot the bill?
That's great and all but you still didn't answer the question. Please do so now.
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hi guest. actually i did thoroughly check this place out and continue to do so. someone i care about is there and except for the first 2 weeks i have been able to have open unmonitored telephone and off campus visits with her. it is just as silly to put a kid there as it is to go grab her back without completely checking into it. she doesn't even want to leave yet. she is making gains there. i am really spooked that they seem cultish regarding themselves and they are all, every single one of them, mormons. they had a play that was sponsored by them, staff is totally mormon and they had one parent followed around because she had complained. i heard another parent asking about the kid staying there in utah after graduation and they are going to help by doing something they aren't supposed to do. i have also caught them in lies but thats the suits. it is like a private mormon school and that is spooky. also, i think they should be told not to have the kids write all day but who should i report that to. if they are all mormons and i read that the utah state person that checks out complaints is also a biggie with mormons won't do anything.
i read an article in the mormon newspaper about skyrocketing child abuse in utah and that since 70% of the people there are mormons some of it must be happening with them and all they wanted to do about it was pray for them!!!! not call 911 or anything, just pray.
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Apparently, "Aspen helmet" is trade mark protected and I cant use it. Some people are pissed, which I could give a dam about, but I am forced to comply with the trade mark/copyright laws... but it was fun.
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Actually this is really sad. It appears she's become institutionalized. Think about it. 3 1/2 years at Heritage and then how many at CCM?
:(
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CCM, here is what we have been working on since we last spoke:
Just when I think you couldn't be any more repulsive.
::noway:: ::kma::
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Who, that is absolutely hilarious. Aspen aka crc would do that except that it would interfere with them counting their money!
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she doesn't even want to leave yet. she is making gains there.
Oh bullshit. You can't be stupid enough to believe that. Who's teling you that? How are these gains determined?
i am really spooked that they seem cultish regarding themselves and they are all, every single one of them, mormons.
staff is totally mormon and they had one parent followed around because she had complained.
also, i think they should be told not to have the kids write all day but who should i report that to.
Report that to?
REPORT THAT TO?!
You've insinuated that you're either the parent or very close to the parent.
When you see your daughter in the middle of a cult, you don't report it to anyone, at least not before you go and get your fucking daughter!! Jesus! This is one of those transcendental "what the fuck is wrong with you" moments. God only knows what they did to her in those first two weeks. God only knows what they're telling her now, probably along the lines of "if you don't make us look good, if your mom starts asking questions, we'll make it hard on you".
This isn't rocket science, mamala!
if they are all mormons and i read that the utah state person that checks out complaints is also a biggie with mormons won't do anything.
i read an article in the mormon newspaper about skyrocketing child abuse in utah and that since 70% of the people there are mormons some of it must be happening with them and all they wanted to do about it was pray for them!!!! not call 911 or anything, just pray.
Hi, welcome to reality.
But no, don't pay attention to the rest of us. Go on and play with TheWho and CCM Girl, while your daughter is in the middle of a cult. Let her read this thread, she'll understand perfectly.
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Who, that is absolutely hilarious. Aspen aka crc would do that except that it would interfere with them counting their money!
Its revolting. Especially coming from an Aspen shill like Who.
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"Yeah, real fucking funny. You having fun CCM girl? God I hope so cuz you sure are making a lot of us sick."
It is funny to me only because you are barking up the wrong tree, and I clearly know this to be the case in regards to Heritage. Sometimes, you guys are unbelievable yourselves, and make me quite sick with all the lies you spew! Right now on this subject I am finding it to be a little irritating myself that you are telling numerous tall tales, and lies.
So, I am combating it with my own special sense of humor that I think is funny, and I know some of you others out there do too, don't lie!!! Anyway, trying to put Heritage in the same category as Straight, and WWASPS programs is complete nonsense. It's just wrong! Sorry, but Heritage is a good program that puts a lot of training into their staff, they have qualified therapists that you meet with mostly, and psychologists that we had access to if we thought, or felt we needed to be on medication. BTW, the majority of us that took medication did so willingly. We wanted to feel better. There could have been some cases (I cannot remember exactly) of kids with severe emotional problems that were told they had to take medication of some kind? Anyway, they don't care about the bottom dollar like a lot of these treatment facilities do. They put a great deal of money like I said before, into their program facilities, they have real teachers, and classrooms. I'm not going to repeat myself. Just believe what I say, and know that they are not like some of these other programs that are abusive, and are money grubbing whores.
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they have qualified therapists that you meet with mostly, and psychologists that we had access to if we thought
(http://http://www.dsfanboy.com/media/2006/01/PhoenixWrightObjection.jpg)
the guy who is the psychiatrist and isn't really even a medical doctor and had had his license taken away. they just seem stupid and the right arm of the mormon church. there isn't a psychologist among them just a bunch of social workers and they aren't therapists, are they?.
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Even if Heritage was like a resort, what possible purpose does it serve to allow parents to confine and abandon their child for 3 1/2 years? Is this supposed to help the child in some way?
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guest, have you been there? have you spoken to anyone who has been there? have you spoken to anyone who is there? have you spoken to anyone who makes unannounced on site visits there?
i was looking for informed information not for someone to insult, bully and swear at me.
thank you for your input and we will give it the credit that it certainly deserves.
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Who, if you could see me right at this moment, my face is beet red with tears streaming down my face! That was so funny! Thank you!!! ::roflmao::
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MAMALA = TROLL
Any quesses who this might be?
She sure knows her programs, doesn't she?
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Actually, mamala, it was your own words that make it really obvious that this place isn't for anyone sane to put their kids.
YOU SAID: It's cultish.
YOU SAID: There are things going on there that you feel you have to "report" to someone.
YOU SAID: There aren't any licensed psychologists.
And even after those things that you know about- bright red flags, each of which is a damn good reason by itself to get your kid away from these people- you still feel that you should leave her there?
It doesn't matter how much money you already paid them, mamala. It doesn't matter how much you've emotionally invested. YOU SAID IT YOURSELF: Your daughter is in the middle of a cult, and you put her there.
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MAMALA = TROLL
Any quesses who this might be?
She sure knows her programs, doesn't she?
I doubt it. It'd be one hell of a troll. What we have here is a very, very confused woman who knows very well what's wrong with the place, yes has too much at stake (pride? confidence? the need not to look weak?) not to get her daughter out.
The real funny thing is that CCM Girl has turned shill, and is saying things in direct contradiction of what mamala already knows. TheWho is just trying to derail like crazy, because this thread may end in someone being pulled out, and he couldn't possibly have that.
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Who, if you could see me right at this moment, my face is beet red with tears streaming down my face! That was so funny! Thank you!!! ::roflmao::
I am getting some real negative email and will probably have to take it down soon, glad it cheered you up.... I just couldnt resist.
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Just believe what I say, and know that they are not like some of these other programs that are abusive, and are money grubbing whores.
Never mind all the similarities to the other cultish programs.
Never mind that they keep kids for virtually their entire teen life.
Never mind the isolation that removes all systems of checks and balances.
CCM girl says its OK and we should just believe her despite our extensive experience with programs, Stockholm Syndrome, PTSD and the like.
Look, I don't think anyone said its another Straight or WWASPS. That doesn't mean its good. Its never a good idea to close a kid off from life for an extended period of time. Its never a good idea to have no recourse for a child inside a program. Its never a good idea to break them in order to rebuild them. Heritage may very well be less abusive than some of the others. That doesn't make it either harmless or helpful.
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guest, i didn't say they were cultish or that they were a cult. i said they "seemed cultish". that is why i am here to get more info but you do not seem to have any first hand info but a kind of circular logic and offensive manner. if my daughter was with you i would truly grab her out of there!
thank you again. we will give your statements the credibility they deserve.
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Who, if you could see me right at this moment, my face is beet red with tears streaming down my face! That was so funny! Thank you!!! ::roflmao::
I am getting some real negative email and will probably have to take it down soon, glad it cheered you up.... I just couldnt resist.
You'll have to take it down? Who is telling you this?
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Thanks, mamala. I hope your daughter gets raped.
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guest, i didn't say they were cultish or that they were a cult. i said they "seemed cultish". that is why i am here to get more info but you do not seem to have any first hand info but a kind of circular logic and offensive manner. if my daughter was with you i would truly grab her out of there!
thank you again. we will give your statements the credibility they deserve.
Well Mamala, there's more than one "guest" here so I guess you'll just have to ignore all of us.
Whatever. Hope your kid's OK.
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Mamala, you can PM me anytime! If you need any real information, you just let me know! Oh come on guys! At first she wasn't a troll, and now she is because she can see how overly dramatic, and ridiculous you are being?
Oh here we go again!!!! Is it Sue, is it Izzy, perhaps The Who? Or maybe even CCM girl 1989 because after all don't you remember when I was falsely accused of having a referral agency, and becoming an Ed Con! Hey, wait! Come back, and answer those questions!!!!
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Who, if you could see me right at this moment, my face is beet red with tears streaming down my face! That was so funny! Thank you!!! ::roflmao::
I am getting some real negative email and will probably have to take it down soon, glad it cheered you up.... I just couldnt resist.
You'll have to take it down? Who is telling you this?
Oh! I know! I know!!!
Aspen. It's hitting a little too close to home.
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Mamala, you can PM me anytime! If you need any real information, you just let me know! Oh come on guys! At first she wasn't a troll, and now she is because she can see how overly dramatic, and ridiculous you are being?
Oh here we go again!!!! Is it Sue, is it Izzy, perhaps The Who? Or maybe even CCM girl 1989 because after all don't you remember when I was falsely accused of having a referral agency, and becoming an Ed Con! Hey, wait! Come back, and answer those questions!!!!
No, I think its a real parent who was beginning to ask the right questions. You've put a stop to that. Hope you're proud of yourself.
::fu::
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Self-justification can be so much more powerful than reality, can't it?
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Self-justification can be so much more powerful than reality, can't it?
Ding ding ding!!! We have a winner.
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Because her parents threw her away like the worthless whore she is.
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guest, what a horrible thing to wish for anyone. i have never heard anyone with hopes and wishes for others as you have, and we will certainly put that statement in with your others and give you the credibility you deserve.
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Who, please do not take that down, I beg of you!!!! Besides, you get negative email all the time from people here on Fornits, that's nothing new, what's a few more going to do?!!!
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Because her parents threw her away like the worthless whore she is.
Shut up. :roll:
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Seriously, this shit is so unnecessary. Let's focus on this program and not on CCM girl.
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We will do this, we will do that, your credibility, WAH WAH WAH.
Sounds like maybe you need a good, long raping too.
And then after I'm done I'll brainwash you to like it and then you can post on Fornits how nice it was.
I'll tell you this, though: It'll take a lot less time than a couple months! So by ramming my meat into your twisted cunt I'm actually doing a lot less to you than you are to your own daughter.
Funny how that works, isn't it?
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Who, please do not take that down, I beg of you!!!! Besides, you get negative email all the time from people here on Fornits, that's nothing new, what's a few more going to do?!!!
It ain't coming from fornits peeps dearie. Its coming from his bosses. Or his father's bosses. As I said, its a little too close to the truth.
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Seriously, this shit is so unnecessary. Let's focus on this program and not on CCM girl.
We're trying. We're even asking her questions ABOUT Heritage. Like why they felt the need to keep her for 3 1/2 years. She doesn't want to talk about it apparently. She just makes blanket statements and says 'believe me'. Its kinda hard when the evidence points to a coercive and cultish form of 'treatment' taht we're all too familiar with.
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Who, if you could see me right at this moment, my face is beet red with tears streaming down my face! That was so funny! Thank you!!! ::roflmao::
I am getting some real negative email and will probably have to take it down soon, glad it cheered you up.... I just couldnt resist.
This one?
CCM, here is what we have been working on since we last spoke:
It is still in the experimental stage but in 10 to 15 years the kids will not need to be sent away for months/years. Aspen has been collaborating with many research hospitals and they have developed a systems which requires your child to be placed in isolation for 12 hours while they place a chip in their frontal lobe and then goes home.
(http://http://irhbt.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/secondlifepostcard_29.jpg)
The parents then receives and wears the “Aspen Helmetâ€
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:question: :question: :question:
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i'm new here, but doesn't anyone monitor this? i'm afraid that this violence and hatred and disgusting talk and threats is disturbing and should not be tolerated. it thwarts honest discussion and interaction for the well being of children. this does not sound like a place where the well being of children is tolerated and in its place is violent revenge. it is sick and i must leave.
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in its place is violent revenge.
Take a brief moment to think on why this might be so.
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i'm new here, but doesn't anyone monitor this? i'm afraid that this violence and hatred and disgusting talk and threats is disturbing and should not be tolerated. it thwarts honest discussion and interaction for the well being of children. this does not sound like a place where the well being of children is tolerated and in its place is violent revenge. it is sick and i must leave.
Get your kid.
Don't let the door hit ya...............
:roll:
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in its place is violent revenge.
Take a brief moment to think on why this might be so.
Nah, its so much easier to just write us all off as crazy, angry, deranged, disgruntled, pathetic losers.
did I miss any?
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i'm new here, but doesn't anyone monitor this? i'm afraid that this violence and hatred and disgusting talk and threats is disturbing and should not be tolerated. it thwarts honest discussion and interaction for the well being of children. this does not sound like a place where the well being of children is tolerated and in its place is violent revenge. it is sick and i must leave.
Do ya wonder why that is? Does it occur to you that most people here are still dealing with PTSD from what was done to us? Does it occur to you taht our anger might indeed be totally justified?
Your gut is telling you that something isn't right. Listen to it. I could give a shit what you think of us, but don't do your daughter the disservice of leaving her with those freaks. GO GET HER.
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Apparently, "Aspen helmet" is trade mark protected and I cant use it. Some people are pissed, which I could give a dam about, but I am forced to comply with the trade mark laws... but it was fun.
Uh huh. :roll:
Not to worry Who. The other anon preserved it for you. I hope it bites you in the ass.
::kma::
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Hmm, Who's deleting his posts.
Hmmm.
Those complaining emails came to you awfully quickly. I guess they really ARE monitoring this board. A lot.
:rofl:
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QFTing FTW.
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in its place is violent revenge.
Take a brief moment to think on why this might be so.
Nah, its so much easier to just write us all off as crazy, angry, deranged, disgruntled, pathetic losers.
did I miss any?
For me personally, it is easier for me to write some of you (not all of you) off as crazy, angry, deranged, disgruntled, and pathetic losers. Because, most people don't say stuff like, I hope your daughter gets raped, and the other fowl things you've said about me, and Mamala in this thread.
You guys did it to yourselves.
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Did what, ran some dumb cunt off the board in a fit of BAWWWWWWWW and finally shut TheWho the fuck up?
If directed rape fantasies is what's needed to stop the idiocy, then maybe it's time to go dredge some up. Let's see... should I start with infantilism, loli bondage, or maybe one of those institutional fics...
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in its place is violent revenge.
Take a brief moment to think on why this might be so.
Nah, its so much easier to just write us all off as crazy, angry, deranged, disgruntled, pathetic losers.
did I miss any?
For me personally, it is easier for me to write some of you (not all of you) off as crazy, angry, deranged, disgruntled, and pathetic losers. Because, most people don't say stuff like, I hope your daughter gets raped, and the other fowl things you've said about me, and Mamala in this thread.
You guys did it to yourselves.
No, one person said those things and I told them to shut up. its easier for you guys to write us off as angry or crazy because then you don't have to use those critical thinking skills you were born with. Its oh so much easier to believe we're all just fucked than it is to realize its YOU who was screwed royally.
Hope you had fun today. Hope it was worth it.
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For me personally, it is easier for me to write some of you (not all of you) off as crazy, angry, deranged, disgruntled, and pathetic losers. Because, most people don't say stuff like, I hope your daughter gets raped, and the other fowl things you've said about me, and Mamala in this thread.
You guys did it to yourselves
Sorry, CCM, I brought this troll with me to this thread, he is my personal troll and I havent been feeding him lately so he attached himself to you briefly.
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For me personally, it is easier for me to write some of you (not all of you) off as crazy, angry, deranged, disgruntled, and pathetic losers. Because, most people don't say stuff like, I hope your daughter gets raped, and the other fowl things you've said about me, and Mamala in this thread.
You guys did it to yourselves
Sorry, CCM, I brought this troll with me to this thread, he is my personal troll and I havent been feeding him lately so he attached himself to you briefly.
Hey, I have my own trolls too ya know! It's just yours have so much more class, and are way better with words that mine, especially when it comes to personal insults. My trolls just don't measure up to yours unfortunately :-(!!!!
I will however make this offer once, and only once, to this troll of yours Who that has temporarily attached themselves to me, and that is, I will feed you as long as you agree to get my trolls to step it up a notch! If they don't, I will have to give you back to The Who. Are we in agreement?
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Hey, I have my own trolls too ya know! It's just yours have so much more class, and are way better with words that mine, especially when it comes to personal insults. My trolls just don't measure up to yours unfortunately :-(!!!!
I will however make this offer once, and only once, to this troll of yours Who that has temporarily attached themselves to me, and that is, I will feed you as long as you agree to get my trolls to step it up a notch! If they don't, I will have to give you back to The Who. Are we in agreement?
don't flatter yourself. No one really pays much attention to what you write anymore.
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I am, Devon from HLA, Thewho's personal troll and I will work with your trolls, CCM, for 30 days to help them learn how to:
1) Use "Spell check"
2) To get their teeth fixed (or at least get them appointments for implants)
3) Use insults consistent with a high school education or higher.
4) Help them pick out a user name
and eventually
5) get them to contribute individual ideas and exchange dialog.
if they respond and you treat me well, after 30 days, we can talk. Okay?
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For me personally, it is easier for me to write some of you (not all of you) off as crazy, angry, deranged, disgruntled, and pathetic losers. Because, most people don't say stuff like, I hope your daughter gets raped, and the other fowl things you've said about me, and Mamala in this thread.
You guys did it to yourselves
Sorry, CCM, I brought this troll with me to this thread, he is my personal troll and I havent been feeding him lately so he attached himself to you briefly.
Hey, I have my own trolls too ya know! It's just yours have so much more class, and are way better with words that mine, especially when it comes to personal insults. My trolls just don't measure up to yours unfortunately :-(!!!!
I will however make this offer once, and only once, to this troll of yours Who that has temporarily attached themselves to me, and that is, I will feed you as long as you agree to get my trolls to step it up a notch! If they don't, I will have to give you back to The Who. Are we in agreement?
Sounds good, looks like my troll got the message, I can tell it is him because he always logs in as "Guest", so I am fairly comfortable. This is his post:
I am, Devon from HLA, Thewho's personal troll and I will work with your trolls, CCM, for 30 days to help them learn how to:
1) Use "Spell check"
2) To get their teeth fixed (or at least get them appointments for implants)
3) Use insults consistent with a high school education or higher.
4) Help them pick out a user name
and eventually
5) get them to contribute individual ideas and exchange dialog.
if they respond and you treat me well, after 30 days, we can talk. Okay?
I dont want to derail this thread so I will let you two discuss it among yourselves....hope it works out.
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Oh that's right, I forgot! You are all fucking experts even though, you have never been there!!!!! My bad, you're right, what was I thinking? It's just plain awful, oh they do the most horrible things to kids. So horrible, I can't even begin to talk about them!
The funny thing is, I was one of the worst kids there. You ask any of the staff/owners/therapists who are still there, or used to work there, and they know who I am. I was a real pain in the ass! It wasn't like I just coasted through the program. I put up a huge fight, there were several times I was physically restrained. But, I asked for it! I was never hurt in the process, and it was so I wouldn't hurt other students or staff. Sorry, but I can't fault them for that, and say they were abusive because they put there hands on me!
What were they supposed to do if I was wailing on a staff member? Or going after another student? Just sit back, and let it happen? Take bets? Sometimes you guys here are way too much!!!!!
This program is just fine, you are wasting your time trying to dig up dirt on this place.
(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)(http://http://medjeti.com/img/wahmbulance.jpg)
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IT SAYS IT'S HIGHLY SUSPECTED OF BEING AN ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR MODIFICATION PROGRAM. NOT THAT IT IS ONE.
ALL IT DOESN'T MATTER TO ME WHAT THE ADMISSION FORMS SAY.
SO THEY USED ISOLATION AS A FORM OF PUNISHMENT?
SO WHAT IF THEY WENT THROUGH OUR MAIL?
IT'S TRUE WE WERE ONLY ALLOWED TO TALK TO OUR PARENTS, AND FAMILY MEMBERS ONCE A WEEK.
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You forgot straight jackets! NOT THAT THEY USED THEM (WHEN SHE WAS AROUND AND EVERY OTHER YEAR SINCE THEN DOESN'T FUCKING MATTER!) BUT THEY HAD THEM.
JUST SAYING.
No, really, restraint is definitely A-Okay if CCM Girl says it is because she asked for it, and seclusion is OK so the other kids don't have to hear the kid screaming!
:roll:
Back to apologetics and saying its good enough are we?
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in its place is violent revenge.
Take a brief moment to think on why this might be so.
Nah, its so much easier to just write us all off as crazy, angry, deranged, disgruntled, pathetic losers.
did I miss any?
For me personally, it is easier for me to write some of you (not all of you) off as crazy, angry, deranged, disgruntled, and pathetic losers. Because, most people don't say stuff like, I hope your daughter gets raped, and the other fowl things you've said about me, and Mamala in this thread.
You guys did it to yourselves.
I'm sure my daughter would get raped if I were to send her to one of your wonderful programs, so no thanks.
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Hey, if you don’t like it fuck off, I like putting my ambulance block in so that my posts are the only ones you read, I hate everyone equally, I am sick of living in Florida the land of programs and programmies. I am going to get a job and move out on my own, I know I have been saying that for years, but before I reach 25 look out ass hole, I am out of here. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! Like prest-omatic, as soon as I get a car, fuck off I hate all of you BRAAAAAAAAAA!! WAAAAAAAAAA! Quit your crying!!! You are all lossers
You are a sick person Nihalntic, a dickwad troll. I don’t think you ever were in a program or knew someone who went, what is it with you.
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:wave: Who.
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I don't think you could find one person to say they were raped at Heritage School. Once again, spreading lies!
Niles, so what if they had restraints? I never saw them use them. God, you can find anything, and everything to complain about boy! Let me guess, if they used black hefty bags, with duct tape, you'd be complaining about the lack of quality of the restraint, and that it wasn't an "approved restraining device". Maybe I could see your point there. But my friend, you're faulting a program for being prepared in case a situation came up to where they needed to use something like this because they had no other choice.
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:wave: Deborah, Why dont you login like the rest of us.
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Hey, I have my own trolls too ya know! It's just yours have so much more class, and are way better with words that mine, especially when it comes to personal insults. My trolls just don't measure up to yours unfortunately :-(!!!!
I will however make this offer once, and only once, to this troll of yours Who that has temporarily attached themselves to me, and that is, I will feed you as long as you agree to get my trolls to step it up a notch! If they don't, I will have to give you back to The Who. Are we in agreement?
don't flatter yourself. No one really pays much attention to what you write anymore.
That's because I don't write that much anymore! Look at what happened today when I had some extra time on my hands to devote to the board. Um, we are on what 11 pages?!!! Although there is only about 2 pages of stuff even worth reading. I couldn't have done this alone though, there are so many to thank for their contributions I don't even know where to start! I guess The Who for posting the new upcoming technology that is going to revolutionize this whole industry, that was pretty funny! Mamala for sharing with us her personal story, and keeping an open mind despite the insults from quite a few of you Fornits losers. God, how mean is it for someone to say I hope your daughter gets raped? Don't worry Mamala that is not going to happen. For Niles who is just as charming as always! Good luck moving outta Florida, I am sure they'll all be thrilled. However, no matter where you go you will always be able to come back to this board to spread your lies. For the countless other trolls/guests that frequent the board, I cannot forget you!
I hear the music playing, I guess that's all the time I have!
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Dare we hope it's a funeral march?
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anyone wishing to have a civil discussion may feel free to do so in my own facilities questions and answers forum.
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Anyone who likes staying anon and not dealing with TSW, on the other hand, can stay right the fuck here.
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Anyone who likes staying anon and not dealing with TSW, on the other hand, can stay right the fuck here.
How well is that working for you luke?
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Hey, if you don’t like it fuck off, I like putting my ambulance block in so that my posts are the only ones you read, I hate everyone equally, I am sick of living in Florida the land of programs and programmies. I am going to get a job and move out on my own, I know I have been saying that for years, but before I reach 25 look out ass hole, I am out of here. WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!! Like prest-omatic, as soon as I get a car, fuck off I hate all of you BRAAAAAAAAAA!! WAAAAAAAAAA! Quit your crying!!! You are all lossers
You are a sick person Nihalntic, a dickwad troll. I don’t think you ever were in a program or knew someone who went, what is it with you.
I never said that.
Good troll tho.
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I don't think you could find one person to say they were raped at Heritage School. Once again, spreading lies!
You sound like a fucking WWASPIE right there. What if she was? What if while you weren't there, or out of sight while you were there it happened?
Niles, so what if they had restraints? I never saw them use them. God, you can find anything, and everything to complain about boy! Let me guess, if they used black hefty bags, with duct tape, you'd be complaining about the lack of quality of the restraint, and that it wasn't an "approved restraining device". Maybe I could see your point there. But my friend, you're faulting a program for being prepared in case a situation came up to where they needed to use something like this because they had no other choice.
Uh oh, time to get the apologetic-Programmie-o-Matic translation Service out.
PMS©JAX:Niles, so what if they had restraints? I can justify it because I'm the queen of qualifying a program as good or bad while I was in the process of being an admittedly bad kid with issues, which automatically makes me a fucking expert on the issue, according to program logic anyway! Never mind that I got butthurt about my attempt at program-qulaification with that fag whats-his-name that got owned by fornits along with myself, I'm clearly one to speak openly about this issue without any forgone conclusions about myself to project on other children and I'm a fucking expert, completely educated and I don't have any baggage at all. NONE!
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Hey, I have my own trolls too ya know! It's just yours have so much more class, and are way better with words that mine, especially when it comes to personal insults. My trolls just don't measure up to yours unfortunately :-(!!!!
I will however make this offer once, and only once, to this troll of yours Who that has temporarily attached themselves to me, and that is, I will feed you as long as you agree to get my trolls to step it up a notch! If they don't, I will have to give you back to The Who. Are we in agreement?
don't flatter yourself. No one really pays much attention to what you write anymore.
That's because I don't write that much anymore! Look at what happened today when I had some extra time on my hands to devote to the board. Um, we are on what 11 pages?!!! Although there is only about 2 pages of stuff even worth reading. I couldn't have done this alone though, there are so many to thank for their contributions I don't even know where to start! I guess The Who for posting the new upcoming technology that is going to revolutionize this whole industry, that was pretty funny! Mamala for sharing with us her personal story, and keeping an open mind despite the insults from quite a few of you Fornits losers. God, how mean is it for someone to say I hope your daughter gets raped? Don't worry Mamala that is not going to happen. For Niles who is just as charming as always! Good luck moving outta Florida, I am sure they'll all be thrilled. However, no matter where you go you will always be able to come back to this board to spread your lies. For the countless other trolls/guests that frequent the board, I cannot forget you!
I hear the music playing, I guess that's all the time I have!
Oh god, CMSGirly butthurt AGAIN. Forgot the astroglide or just on the rag?
Honestly. Who are you? You're a WWASPIE survivor and you were put in a litany of other programs and you're projecting your OPINIONS and experiences as a FUCKED UP TEENAGER and acting like that amounts to anything more than the opinions of a program apologetic with a ton of baggage and a habit of projecting your own shit on others, and flipping out if people have any criticism for what you say at all!
Nevermind the fact that the grievances I RESPECTFULLY brought up are 100% WRONG, period, the fact that I brought it up against one of your "approved programs" means you need to flip-out, bitch-out and wig-out and spread estrogen everywhere and PMS all over the thread because I didn't bow down to your fucking opinion.
Need a 50 waahhhhmbulance post again?
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Hey, I have my own trolls too ya know! It's just yours have so much more class, and are way better with words that mine, especially when it comes to personal insults. My trolls just don't measure up to yours unfortunately :-(!!!!
I will however make this offer once, and only once, to this troll of yours Who that has temporarily attached themselves to me, and that is, I will feed you as long as you agree to get my trolls to step it up a notch! If they don't, I will have to give you back to The Who. Are we in agreement?
don't flatter yourself. No one really pays much attention to what you write anymore.
That's because I don't write that much anymore! Look at what happened today when I had some extra time on my hands to devote to the board. Um, we are on what 11 pages?!!! Although there is only about 2 pages of stuff even worth reading. I couldn't have done this alone though, there are so many to thank for their contributions I don't even know where to start! I guess The Who for posting the new upcoming technology that is going to revolutionize this whole industry, that was pretty funny! Mamala for sharing with us her personal story, and keeping an open mind despite the insults from quite a few of you Fornits losers. God, how mean is it for someone to say I hope your daughter gets raped? Don't worry Mamala that is not going to happen. For Niles who is just as charming as always! Good luck moving outta Florida, I am sure they'll all be thrilled. However, no matter where you go you will always be able to come back to this board to spread your lies. For the countless other trolls/guests that frequent the board, I cannot forget you!
I hear the music playing, I guess that's all the time I have!
Oh god, CMSGirly butthurt AGAIN. Forgot the astroglide or just on the rag?
Honestly. Who are you? You're a WWASPIE survivor and you were put in a litany of other programs and you're projecting your OPINIONS and experiences as a FUCKED UP TEENAGER and acting like that amounts to anything more than the opinions of a program apologetic with a ton of baggage and a habit of projecting your own shit on others, and flipping out if people have any criticism for what you say at all!
Nevermind the fact that the grievances I RESPECTFULLY brought up are 100% WRONG, period, the fact that I brought it up against one of your "approved programs" means you need to flip-out, bitch-out and wig-out and spread estrogen everywhere and PMS all over the thread because I didn't bow down to your fucking opinion.
It sounds to me like you're a real woman hater Niles! I have a few gay friends, but they like women? Are you one of those fags who just hates women?!!!
I really don't mean to be so rude, but you're bringing up stuff about me, and if I am on the rag, spreading estrogen all over the place, blah, blah, blah! It just sounds like you hate the fact you were born with a penis???? Niles, that's not my fault, so don't have a hissy fit, and take it out on me.
I don't expect you to bow down to my opinion. But, you have no real experience when it comes to this place, you never stepped foot on the grounds, you've never personally met the people who work there, or the founders of Heritage. You know nothing about it. So, why all of a sudden are you the expert?
CCM girl 1989
Need a 50 waahhhhmbulance post again?
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I just wanted to remind the people once again how classy some of the posters here are! I think it's important that you read through this whole thread so you can know just how sick some of these folks are! The hatred that they spew.
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Why were you at Heritage for 3 1/2 years?
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Well, let's see.....in the 7th grade, I got kicked out of 2 Junior High Schools. One for truancy, fighting, smoking, and getting kicked out of several of my classes for mouthing off. The second school was for fighting. Not just one instance, several.
When I got to Heritage I was a total mess. I needed to be there for at least 2 of those years. I would say I grew quite a bit during that time. The next 1 1/2 years I was still growing, and I was put on transition with 2 different familes where I was allowed to go to Orem High School. I messed up both times, and got sent back.
I honestly think my parents didn't want me back home. I think life was easier, and less problematic without me. You cannot make parents take you home, and with my past history of violence there wasn't a lot of boarding schools that would've taken me. If any?
So, I was sent to Cross Creek Manor for the next 9 months, I was told basically from my therapist that he felt my parents were never going to be taking me home, and that more then likely I was going to be there until I was 18.
So, I took my future into my own hands, and ran away. I stayed a year on my own in St. George, Utah. Then my Aunt and Uncle found me, and brought me into their family in Northern California.
Hope that helps?
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I just wanted to remind the people once again how classy some of the posters here are! I think it's important that you read through this whole thread so you can know just how sick some of these folks are! The hatred that they spew.
Wow, I'm SUCH a fucking hate-spewer!
Lets see:Do they keep kids without problems there anyway against their will?
Do they isolate ANYONE from the outside world, or legal representation?
Do they only hold people there captive who have a medical need to be?
LGATs? Restraints? Levels?
Sorry, I don't care if its Hogwarts, but those things can't be justified anywhere, even if they give everyone hookers and blow at the end of the day.
You seem to flip out on cue if someone dares to ask a question about something you feel strongly about - not QUESTION what it is you feel, rather, ask for specifics.
No matter how bad you were, or anyone else is, at any program, whether or not you approve it, there still isn't any excuse for ANY of what I asked about being done or tolerated being done on a large or small scale.
So, yes, PMSgirl, please wig out and shit all over the thread and then blame it on my honest, innocent question. If you want to play dirty I'm more than ready and willing to do so. In fact, I HOPE you keep dodging questions, yelling and screaming and flapping your arms in a tantrum just like you did in your grade schools and APPROVED programs instead of addressing what I've brought up, I've got some real funny shit down the pipes :lol:
And since TheWho has been unbanned, I'm more than happy to troll you really dirty and then drop screaming gorillas on Who until the cows come home :rofl:
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And this is why Niles will never leave Florida like he wants. Because he is wasting his time on me, and the Who (sorry, I almost forgot to mention you!)!!!!
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And this is why Niles will never leave Florida like he wants. Because he is wasting his time on me, and the Who (sorry, I almost forgot to mention you!)!!!!
This in response to...
Do they keep kids without problems there anyway against their will?
Do they isolate ANYONE from the outside world, or legal representation?
Do they only hold people there captive who have a medical need to be?
LGATs? Restraints? Levels?
Sorry, I don't care if its Hogwarts, but those things can't be justified anywhere, even if they give everyone hookers and blow at the end of the day.
Now, she's completely dodging my attempts to find some actual information a get a valid question responded to, and then throwing in an ad-hominem attack to both try to discredit me to others and try to psychologically attack me.
AND she tries to call in TheWho to help her?
:rofl:
Sorry but spending a minute of my time to try to illustrate what a "programmie" is and how they act and try to evade questions, manipulate facts and communication, for the help of a LOT of other people is definitely not a waste of time nor is it impeding on any of my goals.
So, again, why exactly is denying children due process, holding those without problems in the program anyway, using a level system, LGATs, or restraints as punishment, or simply asking about them in the context of a program you give your approval of spewing hate and "Wasting time so I won't achieve my goals"?
Seriously, just because YOU were a bad child and in a program that was not as bad as wwasps, does not mean it is good (nor, that it isn't, which is what I am trying to find out...) nor does it justify that program which was "Good" to you while you were "Bad" keeping kids there without due process or who don't need to be there at all.
Now, I'm sure you'll just try to shit all over this too...
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No one is beating you up Niles, relax. I dont think CCM was refering to those questions when she mentioned your hatred....did you just get out of church?
Here is your typical response/post:
http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=284452#284452 (http://wwf.fornits.com/viewtopic.php?p=284452#284452)
You spread racial slurs all over the board, everytime you visit and thats what you do, be honest with yourself. Dont try to pretend you are part of some debate club by posing someone elses questions.
Now get back to your on-line poker, leave the discussing to us. Hey!! Dont give me that look again.
(http://http://www.primatesworld.com/images/ho_koko_m.jpg)
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Exactly right. I called Sue a Jew on Encyclopedia Dramatica!
www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Sue_Scheff (http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/Sue_Scheff)
Its called "satire".
Nowhere in that thread did I use any racially offensive term, though. At any rate, "nigger" isn't even racist, technically. It is offensive.
rac•ism
Pronunciation: 'rA-"si-z&m also -"shi-
Function: noun
1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race
Hrm.
nig·ger
Pronunciation: 'ni-g&r
Function: noun
Etymology: alteration of earlier neger, from Middle French negre, from Spanish or Portuguese negro, from negro black, from Latin niger
1 usually offensive; see usage paragraph below : a black person
2 usually offensive; see usage paragraph below : a member of any dark-skinned race
3 : a member of a socially disadvantaged class of persons
Ginger says "Teens are the current niggers". Is she racist?
No.
Anyway, given the current bedfellows of PMSgirl and TheBumblefuck, I now bring you back to your regularly scheduled trolling in lieu of answering a simple question about if PMSGirl's program kept kids there who didn't need help anyway!
:D
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I read all of these links and it makes me sad, and more than that it makes me angry. While we as survivors are fighting amongst each other a whole new generation of kids is being abused, mentally and physically, young mothers are having their babies taken away from them forcibly, and 20 years from now, this generation will be sitting around dealing with manic depression, insomnia, etc. because the memories are just too damn painful. OR, here is a novel idea, we put on our Big Boy and Big Girl panties and discuss this crap like adults and come up with a solution. Anybody want to play that game for a while?
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Fine with me.
So, CCMgirl, does your approved program keep kids without due process or those who clearly do not need any "help"?
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How many teens do you know that wake up any given morning and say I want to leave everything familiar to me, and go somewhere were strangers are going to control my every waking moment? Of course they are there against their wills, but that goes back to this countries idea that children are property. You don't need their consent in this country to hold them under lock and key, they don't have rights to freedom of speach or religion or anything else. Animals have more rights and protections in this country than children do.
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There ARE cases where people need to be kept in a actual treatment facility when unstable against their will.
Obviously, what fornits calls a "program" or "duck farm" (quackery and warehousing...) is no such place.
At any rate, I do wish CCMGirl would clarify whether or not her earmarked program kept kids who clearly didn't need it, or if they had actual due process and not just an edcon's approval.
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Fine with me.
So, CCMgirl, does your approved program keep kids without due process or those who clearly do not need any "help"?
In regards to Heritage, the kids are evaluated on a daily basis by staff members in their end of shift logs, which are then given to the therapists of these children, for them to review. That makes it so when the therapist meets with the child they are not only talking about their past problems at home, but the problems they are having in the program.
As far as before they go in, sometimes the school is going on the parents word, that their child needs help, and not by the courts ruling. Sometimes that is due to the fact that, the parents are trying to nip the problem in the bud before it gets the juvenile system, and gets extremely messy.
So, I guess that you could say that there are kids that have not been ordered by the court, or by another governing type of agency, to be placed there.
But, I would have to say, that all the kids I came across there needed some type of therapy, or treatment, and benefited from it. You are trying to group this school in with some of the schools that are very well known to be abusive. I'm not going to let that happen. Parents need to have safe places to send their kids, to get the help that they need.
You just want to let kids run wild, and if it kills people, or hurts the public, who cares?!! Not to mention hurting themselves.
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most of their clients are from california on an iep driven placement to a nps that has to be certified by the state and have a master contract with the appropriate selpa. they are not court ordered. those children are monitored by several agencies as well as their parents. a small amount of short termers are utah juvenile justice cases. those children always have a lawyer and due process. under all of those circumstances, there is due process and facility licensing and oversight. not to say that they are not idiots in some or many capacities, all mormons with a sheltered and ignorant view and knowledge of everything possible and the standard of ALL their care is lower than a lot of professionals that are not employed by institutions.
i think you guys are talking about the for profit places, who may not be licensed, where the real abuse is going on.
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not to say that they are not idiots in some or many capacities, all mormons with a sheltered and ignorant view and knowledge of everything possible and the standard of ALL their care is lower than a lot of professionals that are not employed by institutions.
i think you guys are talking about the for profit places, who may not be licensed, where the real abuse is going on.
Correction maám.... Abuse can happen just as easily in a licensed facility as it can an unlicensed facility.
Kids have died in licensed facilities.
Kids have been beaten in licensed facilities.
Kids have been mentally abused in licensed facilities.
As to the bolded portion of your above quote could you please elaborate on what makes the staff of Heritage providers of lower quality care?
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it could, but it doesn't.
the low quality of care, based on malpractice law standard of care, involves failing to read charts, prescribing controlled substances without regard to hx, failing to provide state of the art or even good diagnostic critieria and methods psychiatricaly, pharmacologically, educationally, medically, therapeutically. failure to regard individual or even have average knowledge of any culture, religion other than mormon. violation of religion and disability civil rights. inexperienced therapist, administration and teachers who have no knowledge of sped law, techniques, methods, strategies, implementations, assessments etc. either therapeutically or academically. inadequate staff (not a single medical psychiatrist or even psychologist) with inadequate education and training who have no knowledge of appropriate therapeutic care, treatment and case management.
want more?
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In a long-winded way, I think your answer to Niles' question was "yes."
Fine with me.
So, CCMgirl, does your approved program keep kids without due process or those who clearly do not need any "help"?
In regards to Heritage, the kids are evaluated on a daily basis by staff members in their end of shift logs, which are then given to the therapists of these children, for them to review. That makes it so when the therapist meets with the child they are not only talking about their past problems at home, but the problems they are having in the program.
As far as before they go in, sometimes the school is going on the parents word, that their child needs help, and not by the courts ruling. Sometimes that is due to the fact that, the parents are trying to nip the problem in the bud before it gets the juvenile system, and gets extremely messy.
So, I guess that you could say that there are kids that have not been ordered by the court, or by another governing type of agency, to be placed there.
But, I would have to say, that all the kids I came across there needed some type of therapy, or treatment, and benefited from it. You are trying to group this school in with some of the schools that are very well known to be abusive. I'm not going to let that happen. Parents need to have safe places to send their kids, to get the help that they need.
You just want to let kids run wild, and if it kills people, or hurts the public, who cares?!! Not to mention hurting themselves.
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In a long-winded way, I think your answer to Niles' question was "yes."
Fine with me.
So, CCMgirl, does your approved program keep kids without due process or those who clearly do not need any "help"?
In regards to Heritage, the kids are evaluated on a daily basis by staff members in their end of shift logs, which are then given to the therapists of these children, for them to review. That makes it so when the therapist meets with the child they are not only talking about their past problems at home, but the problems they are having in the program.
As far as before they go in, sometimes the school is going on the parents word, that their child needs help, and not by the courts ruling. Sometimes that is due to the fact that, the parents are trying to nip the problem in the bud before it gets the juvenile system, and gets extremely messy.
So, I guess that you could say that there are kids that have not been ordered by the court, or by another governing type of agency, to be placed there.
But, I would have to say, that all the kids I came across there needed some type of therapy, or treatment, and benefited from it. You are trying to group this school in with some of the schools that are very well known to be abusive. I'm not going to let that happen. Parents need to have safe places to send their kids, to get the help that they need.
You just want to let kids run wild, and if it kills people, or hurts the public, who cares?!! Not to mention hurting themselves.
She sounds like a god damned program apologist. :roll:
So does the therapist decide when they go home, OR IS THERE A LEVEL SYSTEM YES/NO? Yanno, the whole "fix problems that need captive fixing or send them home" concept of "ethical treatment"... *sigh*.
As far as before they go in, sometimes the school is going on the parents word, that their child needs help, and not by the courts ruling. Sometimes that is due to the fact that, the parents are trying to nip the problem in the bud before it gets the juvenile system, and gets extremely messy.
So you're going to ignore every single person who was thrown into a program because their parents wanted them to be thrown in, due to edcons fucking with thier heads, genuinely being mistaken, or simply wanting them gone, and not needing a REASON to keep them there?
Wow lets slap everyone in the fucking face who was unnecessarily put through a program becuase CCM Girl thinks its "nipping it in the bud". You sound like a STRAIGHTling saying if theyre not a druggie yet, they will be!
I also like how you basically skirted the whole "due process" question so well but basically admitted that there isn't any... and forewent answering the "level" question or what the criteria for release are!
But, I would have to say, that all the kids I came across there needed some type of therapy, or treatment, and benefited from it. You are trying to group this school in with some of the schools that are very well known to be abusive. I'm not going to let that happen. Parents need to have safe places to send their kids, to get the help that they need.
Now, think about this. You were a teenager. A program survivor. And a self-admitted "bad kid", but you approve of this program!Through rosy retrospection you're giving them an archaeo-diagnosis when you have no credentials to do so, no formal education at all, just your own program experience and the foregone conclusion that its a good program, so everyone there needed to be there, right?
I mean, never mind their rights being trampled, no due process, and nothing wrong with them except mommy and daddy think (possibly because an EdCon convinced them!) that the kid had to be there, they got something out of it, by golly, and years of isolation and solitude are A-OK and robbing years of their teens is now OK becuase CCM Girl in her infinite wisdom said they had something to get out of it and SOMEONE said they should be there, JUST incase.
Parents need to have safe places to send their kids, to get the help that they need.
Why not find out if they need any fucking help in the first place, and sometimes the help they need can't be found at a program? Ever consider that?
Regardless, just because mommy said so doesn't mean anybody but mommy needs some help. And for that matter, just because you say you think some kids need help, doesn't necessarily mean anyone but you does, CCMGirl.
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As far as before they go in, sometimes the school is going on the parents word, that their child needs help, and not by the courts ruling. Sometimes that is due to the fact that, the parents are trying to nip the problem in the bud before it gets the juvenile system, and gets extremely messy.
THAT!!! ^^^^^^^^^ That right there!! You don't see the danger in that? These kids are having their adolescence stolen from them for what they might do? Heritage 'takes' kids based solely on the parents word? No diagnosis?
But, I would have to say, that all the kids I came across there needed some type of therapy, or treatment, and benefited from it. You are trying to group this school in with some of the schools that are very well known to be abusive. I'm not going to let that happen. Parents need to have safe places to send their kids, to get the help that they need.
I'm not saying that Heritage is just like Straight or Tranquility Bay. That doesn't mean its not dangerous and abusive. You don't have to be smacked around to be abused or damaged. You know that.
You just want to let kids run wild, and if it kills people, or hurts the public, who cares?!! Not to mention hurting themselves.
Yep. Ya got me. That's what I want. Do you forget that quite a few of us survivors are also parents? I've got two grown kids. I know what its like to be scared senseless, believe me. Programs are NOT the answer.
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Now, think about this. You were a teenager. A program survivor. And a self-admitted "bad kid", but you approve of this program!Through rosy retrospection you're giving them an archaeo-diagnosis when you have no credentials to do so, no formal education at all, just your own program experience and the foregone conclusion that its a good program, so everyone there needed to be there, right?
Now, think about this. You were a teenager. A program survivor. And felt you were a "good kid", but you Disapprove of this program! Through tainted retrospection you're saying the school was ineffective when you have no credentials to do so, no formal education at all, just your own program experience and the foregone conclusion that its an abusive program, so no one there needed to be there, right?
...
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So does the therapist decide when they go home, OR IS THERE A LEVEL SYSTEM YES/NO? Yanno, the whole "fix problems that need captive fixing or send them home" concept of "ethical treatment"... *sigh*.
I'd really like an answer to this.
Wow lets slap everyone in the fucking face who was unnecessarily put through a program becuase CCM Girl thinks its "nipping it in the bud". You sound like a STRAIGHTling saying if theyre not a druggie yet, they will be!
My thoughts exactly. They called most of the siblings dry druggies and they went in too. Ya know, that 'bad attitude'. THAT'S what gets most kids locked up. Bad attitude.
I mean, never mind their rights being trampled, no due process, and nothing wrong with them except mommy and daddy think (possibly because an EdCon convinced them!) that the kid had to be there, they got something out of it, by golly, and years of isolation and solitude are A-OK and robbing years of their teens is now OK becuase CCM Girl in her infinite wisdom said they had something to get out of it and SOMEONE said they should be there, JUST incase.
Yep.
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Heritage had a level system. But, that did not determine when you went home by what level you were on. It did however give your therapist, and your parents an idea of how you were doing.
Levels were reviewed every 2 weeks when I was there. If you received a certain amount of points off, you could be dropped a level. Which in return gave you less privileges. If you were doing things right, such as keeping your areas in both your room clean, and usually you were assigned another spot in the house to keep clean, you were all good. It basically came down to managing your time, and helping out around the house. Kids who were never taught that at home, were now learning that. Yes, that's just plain mean, and abusive!!!!
Also, school was an important part of determining what level you were on. Being on time, because being tardy did get you points off. Mouthing off to the teacher could get you removed which meant points off. But, all, and all, it was pretty fair. Very much like a public school.
Now, please tell me how you would do it differently. See, for me personally, I don't see how you could run a school or a program without structure, do you????? There has to be some kind of system in place! Otherwise, kids would be doing whatever they wanted, and it would be a total disaster!
For those of you parents here on this board, who do have kids, who are anti-program, how do you discipline your kids at home? There has to be some kind of reward when they do good, and consequences when they do bad, right?
There are schools out there that use levels, combined with seminars, to move the students along towards a "program completion" but, once again not all schools/programs are alike, Heritage was not run in that fashion.
When it came to me, and my departure, from Cross Creek Manor, somebody called it in quotes "my exit plan", I thought they were making fun of it a little because it was my own personal plan of exit, with very little planning, and a lot of running involved! I checked in with my therapist a few weeks after my departure, and we worked out a deal along with my parents that allowed me to live on my own, and not return to CCM. It's not their traditional Exit Plan that the kids/staff/parents talk about at WWASPS.
I'm sure there is something I did not cover, that you asked me to, but this is very time consuming trying to keep up with all this. I am sure you can understand. I am not trying to avoid anyones questions, I just find it almost impossible to answer all of them! There's just not enough hours in the day.
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Now, think about this. You were a teenager. A program survivor. And a self-admitted "bad kid", but you approve of this program!Through rosy retrospection you're giving them an archaeo-diagnosis when you have no credentials to do so, no formal education at all, just your own program experience and the foregone conclusion that its a good program, so everyone there needed to be there, right?
Now, think about this. You were a teenager. A program survivor. And felt you were a "good kid", but you Disapprove of this program! Through tainted retrospection you're saying the school was ineffective when you have no credentials to do so, no formal education at all, just your own program experience and the foregone conclusion that its an abusive program, so no one there needed to be there, right?
...
Are you done? Well, allow me to retort. First, I have to bust you again, like yesterday...you know, when we sorted out Straight, inc. from WWASP? You had some difficulty there, my son. You're welcome, too.
Niles wasn't in a program (that I know of) and is a person offended by the very nature of programming kids into gun-shy milksops. Do all program kids turn out weak? Obviously not. PV rewards girls for being "snitch bitches" - they get props for calling confrontation groups on other patients for real or fabricated infractions. It's a bully system, and the more aggressive sorts will prey on the ones they smell weakness in - pretty easy to do, since PTSD kids are mixed in with affluent crack heads. Wonderful trait to encourage, don't you think?
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As far as it being pretty much like regular school... did they follow the same criteria as a regular school?? Were the grades broken up and did they use the same books that the regular school use?? And most importantly were the teachers state approved??
There is also a value of academics that has my curiosity. Did they have any type of sports that the kids could get involved in??
And as far as a diploma goes.... Was it an academic deploma or a GED???
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The grades were in a sense broken up because there was Earth Science all the way to Biology Classes, so whatever was next for you it went in order like grades. Math it was the same you had Basic Math, Statistics, and Algebra on up. English was the same way. There were all kins of computer classes, and drama classes, automotive class, etc.
There were real H.S. diplomas, and not GED's given out, if you happened to graduate while there. It was run very much like a public school.When I was there they employed about 15 different full time teachers. It must be more now though since it's grown.
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Are you done? Well, allow me to retort. First, I have to bust you again, like yesterday...you know, when we sorted out Straight, inc. from WWASP? You had some difficulty there, my son. You're welcome, too.
I must have missed that, Zen, I am well aware of the difference. But then you are relatively new here so I give you a bye on that one.
Niles wasn't in a program (that I know of) and is a person offended by the very nature of programming kids into gun-shy milksops.
I know people who have no experience with programs whatsoever (like Niles)and they are not offended by kids who are gun-shy… I know people who are offended if you wish them a merry Christmas and I accept that…but I don’t think it is right to push their views on others.
Do all program kids turn out weak? Obviously not. PV rewards girls for being "snitch bitches" - they get props for calling confrontation groups on other patients for real or fabricated infractions. It's a bully system, and the more aggressive sorts will prey on the ones they smell weakness in - pretty easy to do, since PTSD kids are mixed in with affluent crack heads. Wonderful trait to encourage, don't you think?
Sounds like high school crap, happens everyday…..a good TBS with trained staff can eliminate this in a heart beat.
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Also, school was an important part of determining what level you were on. Being on time, because being tardy did get you points off. Mouthing off to the teacher could get you removed which meant points off. But, all, and all, it was pretty fair. Very much like a public school.
Public school does not keep you captive and isolated because of mouthing off or being late, CCMGirl.
But then again, you claimed the level system had nothing to do about deciding of a child stayed or didn't. You did say that the school would often keep kids simply because the parent said so, however.
So, AGAIN, what decides when they get to leave, who decides, are there any actual criteria or diagnostics in the matter, and for that matter, do you or do you not admit children were kept there who honestly did not need to be there?
The other things you state which are non abusive but then try to attack us with an insinuation as being perceived as abusive by us - room cleaning, and what not - is a fine and dandy means to argue and deflect, but the bottom line is being kept somewhere, captive, in isolation, in an institution, unless there is a justified need to be there IS abusive intrinsically, and you've yet to demonstrate that the program only kept people there who needed it.
Isolation and captivity isn't justified and isn't in the best interest of the child's development. Its the lesser evil vs letting someone who is honestly out of control hurt themselves or others. Children and teenagers who are not so out of control have no place in institutions, regardless of what their parents, edcons, or you, think.
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Also, school was an important part of determining what level you were on. Being on time, because being tardy did get you points off. Mouthing off to the teacher could get you removed which meant points off. But, all, and all, it was pretty fair. Very much like a public school.
Public school does not keep you captive and isolated because of mouthing off or being late, CCMGirl.
But then again, you claimed the level system had nothing to do about deciding of a child stayed or didn't. You did say that the school would often keep kids simply because the parent said so, however.
So, AGAIN, what decides when they get to leave, who decides, are there any actual criteria or diagnostics in the matter, and for that matter, do you or do you not admit children were kept there who honestly did not need to be there?
The other things you state which are non abusive but then try to attack us with an insinuation as being perceived as abusive by us - room cleaning, and what not - is a fine and dandy means to argue and deflect, but the bottom line is being kept somewhere, captive, in isolation, in an institution, unless there is a justified need to be there IS abusive intrinsically, and you've yet to demonstrate that the program only kept people there who needed it.
Isolation and captivity isn't justified and isn't in the best interest of the child's development. Its the lesser evil vs letting someone who is honestly out of control hurt themselves or others. Children and teenagers who are not so out of control have no place in institutions, regardless of what their parents, edcons, or you, think.
I'm so tired of your bullshit Niles! Get a life, you were never in a program, or had a kid in a program, so what the hell are you doing here? You don't even know what your talking about. :roll:
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Hold the press here guys! Did Niles just admit that it's better for those kids who are clearly out of control to have them in a program away from other people they could potentially hurt?
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Also, school was an important part of determining what level you were on. Being on time, because being tardy did get you points off. Mouthing off to the teacher could get you removed which meant points off. But, all, and all, it was pretty fair. Very much like a public school.
Public school does not keep you captive and isolated because of mouthing off or being late, CCMGirl.
But then again, you claimed the level system had nothing to do about deciding of a child stayed or didn't. You did say that the school would often keep kids simply because the parent said so, however.
So, AGAIN, what decides when they get to leave, who decides, are there any actual criteria or diagnostics in the matter, and for that matter, do you or do you not admit children were kept there who honestly did not need to be there?
The other things you state which are non abusive but then try to attack us with an insinuation as being perceived as abusive by us - room cleaning, and what not - is a fine and dandy means to argue and deflect, but the bottom line is being kept somewhere, captive, in isolation, in an institution, unless there is a justified need to be there IS abusive intrinsically, and you've yet to demonstrate that the program only kept people there who needed it.
Isolation and captivity isn't justified and isn't in the best interest of the child's development. Its the lesser evil vs letting someone who is honestly out of control hurt themselves or others. Children and teenagers who are not so out of control have no place in institutions, regardless of what their parents, edcons, or you, think.
Sorry, to butt in, but we have been over this several times, Niles, and high schools operate the same way. I went thru 2 highschools and I had friends that went thru a different high school and I am familiar with the high schools my kids attended and everyone of the schools would place you in isolation where you had no contact with family or friends, no food or water, no talking, no staring out the window, going to the bathroom was at the discretion of the moderator/staff at the time. You would also miss you bus and have to walk 8 miles (in my case) to get home and that was for mouthing off once. Then when you got home you got punished all over again, at least in the TBS when the punishment was over it ended, you didn’t have to deal with your parents punishing you again and placing you in isolation for a week or so and the TBS's typically would let you use the bathroom.
As far as being late goes, you were allowed to be late a few times (each school varied) but the same thing…right into isolation i you broke that rule too, so I guess I would agree with you on that one Niles, that public school may be a little more lax on the rules for tardiness.
...
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Also, school was an important part of determining what level you were on. Being on time, because being tardy did get you points off. Mouthing off to the teacher could get you removed which meant points off. But, all, and all, it was pretty fair. Very much like a public school.
Public school does not keep you captive and isolated because of mouthing off or being late, CCMGirl.
But then again, you claimed the level system had nothing to do about deciding of a child stayed or didn't. You did say that the school would often keep kids simply because the parent said so, however.
So, AGAIN, what decides when they get to leave, who decides, are there any actual criteria or diagnostics in the matter, and for that matter, do you or do you not admit children were kept there who honestly did not need to be there?
The other things you state which are non abusive but then try to attack us with an insinuation as being perceived as abusive by us - room cleaning, and what not - is a fine and dandy means to argue and deflect, but the bottom line is being kept somewhere, captive, in isolation, in an institution, unless there is a justified need to be there IS abusive intrinsically, and you've yet to demonstrate that the program only kept people there who needed it.
Isolation and captivity isn't justified and isn't in the best interest of the child's development. Its the lesser evil vs letting someone who is honestly out of control hurt themselves or others. Children and teenagers who are not so out of control have no place in institutions, regardless of what their parents, edcons, or you, think.
I'm so tired of your bullshit Niles! Get a life, you were never in a program, or had a kid in a program, so what the hell are you doing here? You don't even know what your talking about. :roll:
That's contemptible. I do know what I'm talking about first-hand, as if it really matters in this discussion, and I'm telling you to shut up.
I wish more people who weren't directly affected by the industry knew about it and took an interest. The whole business was unknown to me until a year and a half ago. I'm glad Niles didn't go through any of this shit personally, and it's not a requirement for posting here. Behavior modification is screwed all the way around. I always think of Alex in "A Clockwork Orange" when I hear "behavior modification". I hate seeing the dog jump when her shock collar/electric fence goes off, and I certainly don't want to see the shit happening to a kid, it's beyond degrading.
Quit being so exclusionary, this is certainly not some cool club.
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That's contemptible. I do know what I'm talking about first-hand, as if it really matters in this discussion, and I'm telling you to shut up.
Thanks, Zen, for you efforts to change the landscape here on fornits..... I typically get so much crap from people saying I dont know what it feels like to be in a program and therefore my opinions dont count. I guess if Niles (who has never been in a program and doesnt know anyone who has attended) can broadcast his opinion, the rest of us can.
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Sorry, to butt in, but we have been over this several times, Niles, and high schools operate the same way. I went thru 2 highschools and I had friends that went thru a different high school and I am familiar with the high schools my kids attended and everyone of the schools would place you in isolation where you had no contact with family or friends, no food or water, no talking, no staring out the window, going to the bathroom was at the discretion of the moderator/staff at the time. You would also miss you bus and have to walk 8 miles (in my case) to get home and that was for mouthing off once. Then when you got home you got punished all over again, at least in the TBS when the punishment was over it ended, you didn’t have to deal with your parents punishing you again and placing you in isolation for a week or so and the TBS's typically would let you use the bathroom.
As far as being late goes, you were allowed to be late a few times (each school varied) but the same thing…right into isolation i you broke that rule too, so I guess I would agree with you on that one Niles, that public school may be a little more lax on the rules for tardiness.
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Public schools can't isolate you and deny you food and water, dumbass. Nor do they isolate you from your family if you are sick or have to go home. Do you mean in school suspension?
In school suspension does not compare to isolation a program forces upon people. In school suspension is being in a separate class all day from everyone else while you do your school work, though it tends to equate to busy work, wasting time, and getting behind in actual classes. You still have lunch, you still are able to have your needs legally met (unless someone wants a lawsuit) and you can go to the bathroom when needed unless they want a huge lawsuit as well.
And they leave at the end of the day.
They aren't locked into a room, sometimes bound, sometimes not, or forced into stress positions for hours on end, they're put in a class with other misfits.
In a word, "wow", Who.
Wow.
Also, points for "We've been over this" - we haven't. I love the condescension! Where'd you get that from... P.R. public discrediting 101 or just your own attitude? I'm starting to wonder just who exactly watches your posts.
However, in any event, isolation is not OK, program or otherwise, and you can't compare it to ISS.
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Thanks, Zen, for you efforts to change the landscape here on fornits..... I typically get so much crap from people saying I dont know what it feels like to be in a program and therefore my opinions dont count. I guess if Niles (who has never been in a program and doesnt know anyone who has attended) can broadcast his opinion, the rest of us can.
I can defend and protect and stand up for people without having to have gone through what they have myself.
It's called "empathy". Maybe you should try getting some of your own?
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Thanks, Zen, for you efforts to change the landscape here on fornits..... I typically get so much crap from people saying I dont know what it feels like to be in a program and therefore my opinions dont count. I guess if Niles (who has never been in a program and doesnt know anyone who has attended) can broadcast his opinion, the rest of us can.
I can defend and protect and stand up for people without having to have gone through what they have myself.
It's called "empathy". Maybe you should try getting some of your own?
As can we all, Niles ...thats my point..doesnt matter if you are the Protagonist or antagonist...its you opinion (not anyone elses), remember that.
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Your point? Since When? Your point changes depending on what rebuttal you just had thrown at you!
Opinion is one thing, but hurting other people IS wrong and IS not a matter of opinion! Harming others for no reason, and standing up for the least invasive, least restraining, least coercive treatment NEEDED so that others do not have to go through it is called empathy, morality, and for that matter ethics.
It isn't OPINION that ISS equates to "isolation" and thusly whatever a program does related to isolation is acceptable, its a bullshit analogy and a logical fallacy!
Opinion stops being just that when it comes down to coercion and being forced upon others, especially unnecessarily.
In short, you can have your opinion, but you can't force it on everyone else. I'm standing up for people's right to choose for themselves... and that isn't forcing my opinion upon those who want to push theirs on others, that's standing up for those who it would be forced onto.
So, yes, the "POINT" about isolation with high schools and how they relate to programs is now the "POINT" of opinion vs fact, but that's after your "POINT" was about pushing views on others... right?
So, standing up for those who can't help themselves and need an outsider to help them is pushing my view on others?
What
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Your point? Since When? Your point changes depending on what rebuttal you just had thrown at you!
...and yours seems to flow from porn, to racism, to trolling to asking questions...seems you are trying to be serious today, so I'll bit:
Opinion is one thing, but hurting other people IS wrong and IS not a matter of opinion!
Exactly what I am saying. If you convince a parent to do nothing to help their child then it is wrong, especially if that child ends up taking his or her own life, this isn’t a game. Parents need to weigh all the options and not one of them should be taken away from them if it could help their child…the least invasive may be a sit down at home or a year in a TBS depending on the child.
You seem to be the one forcing your opinion on others…take a look at your experience with the industry and then compare it to those who have dedicated their lives to helping kids and then speak out about opinions and who should be heard.
Niles, don’t get me wrong, you have the right to your opinion and you mean well and seem to want to help the kids (except when you are posting racism stuff). But there are many people out there who know a lot more about this industry than you or I and they are much more educated in the field and I think it wise to yield to their opinions occasionally also.
We have kids who go thru these programs and excel wonderfully and we have others who do not and we have to be fair to both populations and try to listen and protect them both. We need to be the voices for these children, to help their parents decide on the best path and give them honest information.
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::puke::
I'd rather read Brian Peppers' manifesto than try to navigate that sickening morass of text. Do you even read what you're spewing, Who? I got about as far as
especially if that child ends up taking his or her own life
Yeah, especially if it happens right in the middle of AAA. Or maybe afterwards, of psychological issues directly caused by being repeatedly, mentally and physically, abused. But you don't want to count those, do you?
God I hope your daughter finds Fornits. A thousand dollars to anyone who finds his daughter- assuming she's at all real- and gets her to read this shit!
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Yeah, especially if it happens right in the middle of AAA. Or maybe afterwards, of psychological issues directly caused by being repeatedly, mentally and physically, abused. But you don't want to count those, do you?
I understand your struggle and those conditions do exist. The problem is how do we capture that information? How do we quantify the number of kids who were going to take their life but were deterred by the help of the program and the therapists. How many kids who took their lives would have done so regardless of whether they entered a program or not. How many kids took their own life as a result of the programs practices.
If we could collect this information it would go a long way in answering many questions on the effectiveness of these programs and maybe exposing the more damaging models that are used.
God I hope your daughter finds Fornits. A thousand dollars to anyone who finds his daughter- assuming she's at all real- and gets her to read this shit!
My daughter reads here once in awhile, I think I have told people that.
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I understand your struggle...
You can stop right there.
You understand nothing whatsoever. You have no idea who the fuck I am! And any time anyone starts telling what happened to them, you literally laugh it off. Again, and again, and again, and then make noises about how oh yeah, they're probably just lying and manipulating. Anything to avoid the truth, which you really ought to know. It's not even cute anymore. It's just plain fucking disguesting, especially when you start trying to use it on parents.
Parents, do you not understand yet? THIS MAN WANTS CONTROL OF YOUR CHILDREN. He would like nothing more for you to send them to some godforsaken hellhole where they can be treated like THIS (http://http://www.aspeninstitute.info).
My daughter reads here once in awhile, I think I have told people that.
Who, what you've told people and this little thing called 'reality' have nothing to do with each other.
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Exactly what I am saying. If you convince a parent to do nothing to help their child then it is wrong, especially if that child ends up taking his or her own life, this isn’t a game.
Nobody said that you should do nothing to help a child that needs it, nor that it was a game, except you. I have never said not to help children who need it, but since programs have had 30 years to prove they actually do or help anything and have yet to do so, they're clearly NOT a good choice for help when necessary.
The vast majority of children in programs do not need to be anywhere at all, and the people who genuinely need help need to get genuine help in the least restrictive environment there is. People who need to be stabilized do not spend a year going through personal growth bullshit isolated from their parents, they get stabilized and released!
Parents need to weigh all the options and not one of them should be taken away from them if it could help their child…the least invasive may be a sit down at home or a year in a TBS depending on the child.
Unfortunately "TBS" do not actually do any good or provide any help and in the last three decades have STILL failed to demonstrate any positive effects or even NOT having bad ones! The only thing they do is isolate and harm.
You seem to be the one forcing your opinion on others…take a look at your experience with the industry and then compare it to those who have dedicated their lives to helping kids and then speak out about opinions and who should be heard.
No, I'm standing up for people forced into year long stays at programs for no good reason. THEY had something forced on them for no reason! It does not take a fucking year of isolation and confinement to do anything, period. That long of a term is simply for punishment and control and everyone with their brain on straight knows it!
Also, for people who dedicate their lives to helping kids? Good for them! People who dedicate their lives to working in the program industry and hurting kids but SAY they're out to help them can go to hell.
Niles, don’t get me wrong, you have the right to your opinion and you mean well and seem to want to help the kids (except when you are posting racism stuff). But there are many people out there who know a lot more about this industry than you or I and they are much more educated in the field and I think it wise to yield to their opinions occasionally also.
I don't care what someones opinion is, frankly. I deal with facts, unless its not related to our particular issue, then opinions are relevant. It frankly does not matter how much experience someone has if what they're saying is flawed intrinsically or based upon a bullshit notion, such as it taking a year in isolation in confinement in a LGAT environment to stabilize a child, or that such a term in such an environment actually does anything at all.
IT DOESN'T. I don't care if someone is a 60 year old mathematician, 1+2=3 and what programs do does no good, prevents them from getting real help, and if they have no problems unnecessarily harms them and prevents them from normal social development.
We have kids who go thru these programs and excel wonderfully and we have others who do not and we have to be fair to both populations and try to listen and protect them both. We need to be the voices for these children, to help their parents decide on the best path and give them honest information.
There are people who survive traumatic experiences and do fine and people who have not and do horribly. Your point about a kid going through a program and doing fine and a kid being fucked up who didn't seems to indicate a bias that programs are useful.
Show some fucking proof, and justify yearlong confinement and isolation and being put through a PROGRAM'S ideas of "therapy" and prove they work with some data, or shut up.
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People who need to be stabilized do not spend a year going through personal growth bullshit isolated from their parents, they get stabilized and released!
This has proven to be totally ineffective, if it worked everyone would be doing it. Stabilization is just an initial phase
Unfortunately "TBS" do not actually do any good or provide any help and in the last three decades have STILL failed to demonstrate any positive effects or even NOT having bad ones!
Talk to the parents of the kids who attended, or the kids themselves. The TBS industry has grown exponentially during the past decade all because of the proven effectiveness of these programs.
No, I'm standing up for people forced into year long stays at programs for no good reason. THEY had something forced on them for no reason! It does not take a fucking year of isolation and confinement to do anything, period. That long of a term is simply for punishment and control and everyone with their brain on straight knows it!
Nothing worth while can be accomplished in a short time. You can't complete highschool in 30 days, why? You can learn to play golf in a few weeks but to become really good at it it takes years of practice. This applies to every aspect of life…..many of these kids have had years of heading in the wrong direction and this cannot be taken lightly or corrected in a few weeks…I know first hand, I have seen it…I have seen many kids still struggling after a few months…time and nurturing is the key Niles.
I don't care what someones opinion is, frankly. I deal with facts….
I think we can agree here…I listen to people opinions here and from people outside fornits which gives me a “level of the waterâ€
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Talk to ... the kids themselves.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=60[/url]
There were more kids who were dangers to themselves. I honestly think ASR is very lucky in that no one has succeeded in committing suicide. I can tell you first hand that for someone with major depression ASR could drive you past breaking point easily. It seemed like they pick and chose who they took seriously about being suicidal. I was not taken seriously, and had my roommate not been in the room one day, I may well have taken my life. I do not say that to evoke pity or anything else like that, and I was not using it to "manipulate" ( a favorite ASR term) [/quote]
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... c&start=60 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=15260&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=60)
Three Springs Waygookin wrote:
1) What is self-study?
2) Describe this Escorting more please?
3) Why was a student doing the escorting of a self-harming/suicidal resident and not a staff member?
A self study was the worst of the three major consequences. (reflection, challenge, self study). You had work projects, all free time was spent at your table, facing the wall. Lots of writing assignments. Loss of all privileges. Standing during all meetings. You most likely had strict bans
Basically I had to take her back to the dorm and be with her while she gathered up her things and changed, etc. I don't remember if she showered or not. I was basically there to make sure she didn't attempt again.
I don't know why they had me do it. I was "trusted" at that point, and honestly... probably a better choice than some of the staff.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=15 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=asr&start=15)
yes, they did. to a large degree. Dean Kent (the staff mentioned in the article) was gone by the time i had arrived. (he was there in 1997, and i got to ASR in Cummington, MA on January 5th of 1998) i had heard from other students about Dean, that he was a really nice guy but fired b/c he'd called DSS on them. Brett Carey was still the Dean of Student Life when i arrived, and his wife Lisa also helped in the fitness department & was pregnant when i first arrived. They had 2 other daughters, Madison & Carly. The whole thought was a bit frightening, because when we had the 2 hour group "therapy" sessions 2 times a week, they were harsh and abusive to say the least. All of us students would be split into 2 groups, and we'd be rounded up in a circle to get screamed at, belittled and dehumanized. They called it "confrontational", although it was more like verbal abuse and intentional slaughtering.
i was very afraid while i was there, as a student with an extensive sexual abuse history involving rape & incest, i was constantly the target of this slaughtering, esp. b/c i was overweight at the time. needless to say, i left ASR with anorexia some 19 months later.
Brett & other students were all allowed to scream vulgarities at you, called you a "fat bitch, slut," and all. at the age of 15 i learned the word "dildo" while playing scrabble with Brett. One of my roomates claimed that Brett had forced her into sexual operations.
Most of all, it was excusable for students to haze each other.
It was almost looked at as funny. One Staff named Kristen Merhoff gave me funny looks and made sarcastic and patronizing comments when i'd opened up to her about my eating disorder.
Later on, a staff named Amy Robichaud would scream at me for ruining my life, pushing everyone away, talking about how i was a disasterous person, unworthy of being loved. To say the least, she was an abusive person, much alike a person in the throws of an addiction like alchoholism & drug addictions, both of which she admittedly had. There was a great deal of favoritism there, even staff who seemed to want to gain the approval of certain students.
The labor & sleep deprivation that was mentioned in the article is most likely in reference to the "Lifesteps". These were so called "workshops" it was mandatory for all students to attend. Staff and students would be expected to open up there deepest and most unknown
secrets for the sake of "growing". It's true, there was little sleeping allowed & often i myself left feeling shamed & ridiculed.
i was one of the main targets in that school the entire time i was there, a target of hazing & was even blamed for a student breaking into the med office and comsuming large quantities of my prescriptions. For the first 5 months i was there, you could litterally leave, go smoke 1/2 a pack of cigarettes, drop a couple tabs of acid, take like 5 hits off a joint come back & they wouldn't even realize it.
ASR is, to say the least, a very very fucked up place. i have several more things to say, but this whole thing would take eons.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=30 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=asr&start=30)
I am a former student at ASR. I was in the first peer group, 97-98. My experience there haunts me to this day. I have read many articles that refer to the "old staff" and "new staff". I cannot speak for the way ASR is run now, being 2004, but I can speak for how it was run in 97 and 98. Let me start by saying that I am not an angry, defiant kid who is trying to start trouble for ASR. I have graduated high school and am about to graduate college and enter law school. I don't get into trouble, I am a productive member of society, and want people to know the truth. We were badgered, belittled, sworn at, made to stay up all night during "life steps" and given only small rations of food, had all calls to our parents monitored by staff and had the phone hung up on us if we tried to complain to our parents about these things, scrutinized and humiliated on a daily basis. Our mail was read, staff lost their voices by yelling so loudly at us, I personally was called a "slut", a rich little Daddysgirl, a doormat, told my dad tried to buy my love with money, made to discuss personal sexual and private experiences in group sessions with other peers, made to write a ten page paper by hand about what my "issues" were, and if the staff didn't like it, I started over ( this was because I was too close to my friend there, and they put us on bans so we couldn't talk to each other). People, whomever wants to hear specific stories about all of these things, I would be more than happy to share with you!!! email me at [email protected] (http://mailto:[email protected]) i bet i can help you get her out of there
I also graduated from ASR very recently on August the 6th. And I can tell you right now that any kid who complained, their parents were manipulated right out of believing them. There was extreme emotional abuse there, and the only reason anyone's behavior was modified was because they were scared shitless of staying there longer or going to a worse program. We were so scared, your own friends turned against you and you couldnt trust them. The group sessions were awful. One of my friends who had issues with sleeping around was in group and the counselor in the room told her that she might as well keep a mattress tied to her back. Daily, I heard awful things about myself and everyday I was just so sad. Places like this are awful and they need to be stopped. ASR isnt even the worst of them but they all need to go.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t= ... r&start=60 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?t=2826&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=asr&start=60)
I am a an ASR graduate. I graduated in October of 03. At the end of the program I believed that ASR had done a lot for me. Looking back I am shocked that I ever thought that. I was made to turn against my friends and turn them in for the slightest rule breaking (for example listening to music). In group we were often degraded and yelled at, supposedly to make us better. Several times I was suicidal and instead of worrying they told me I was lying and being manipulative. In one group eveyone was allowed to go around and say their judgements against everyone else things like "youre a fat slut". That group was horrible. You were scared into being good and behaving. I'm not sure why I thought this place was so great, I feel as if I was brainwashed in a way.
The wilderness experience was horrible. I spent over 40 days in the outdoors being punished for any little thing we did wrong. My first day I had to run 20 minutes and when I stopped the counselers screamed at me and when i vomited they didnt care. just told me i shouldt have drank so muich water.
Otherwise we need to yield to what we know from the graduates.
Or the kids whose parents wised up and pulled them.
Or maybe the escapees.
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No, I don't mean those kids. I mean the kids who it worked on and are now singing the praises of their program. When I say "the kids" I most certainly don't mean the ones on the Internet telling the truth about what happened to them!
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Sorry, I seem to have struck a nerve with some here, I am talking about the thousands of kids that have graduated. Unlike the majority here I realize that there are kids who dont do well or that the program does work for them...its not 100% effective for everyone.
One of my suggestions is to focus on better matching the right child with the right program so that success rate can increase. I think one way this can be accomplished through more detailed testing prior to acceptance into the program.
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Niles, you're not the sharpest tool in the shed my friend! Look here, and think about what I am about to tell you......
Schools suspend kids for fighting, smoking, truancy, mouthing off, what have you! Then the kid gets home, and guess what? If you have a normal parent they are going to be a little upset. They are more then likely going to put you on some type of restriction. That's if it is a healthy parent. If not, you could get the old belt if you know what I mean! J/K, but the kids would probably have their privelages taken away. Such as TV, phone, video games, cell phone, car.
Do you not agree with that? Or do the parents go.....oh who cares do what you want kid!?!!
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graduated
This is another word you have no right to use, same as "school". You don't actually graduate from a program, same as you don't graduate out of prison. You're either pulled by your parents, leave when you're 18 (whether you talk to your parents again or not is really irrelevant here), or the program and your parents finally agree that your soul rape is complete and hand you a meaningless piece of paper- not valid anywhere- and send you to wherever.
Who, since you love statistics so much, why don't you ask your bosses at Aspen Group what percentage of kids get such paper?
One of my suggestions is...
One of my suggestions is that you jump off the 75th floor of the Empire State Building with a rope around your neck, tied to some solid object, forty stories long.
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Watch CCM Girl compare ordinary punishments with isolation, loss of everything, and permanent mental harm.
Go CCM Girl, go!
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Niles, you're not the sharpest tool in the shed my friend! Look here, and think about what I am about to tell you......
Schools suspend kids for fighting, smoking, truancy, mouthing off, what have you! Then the kid gets home, and guess what? If you have a normal parent they are going to be a little upset. They are more then likely going to put you on some type of restriction. That's if it is a healthy parent. If not, you could get the old belt if you know what I mean! J/K, but the kids would probably have their privelages taken away. Such as TV, phone, video games, cell phone, car.
Do you not agree with that? Or do the parents go.....oh who cares do what you want kid!?!!
What the fck does that have to do with year long isolation from their FAMILY (wait, "restriction" means stuck in the house with the parents! Shit...), Legal representation and the outside world?
NONE.
Because... they're not isolated and trapped inside an institution for a year if they get grounded.
So, again, what the fuck?
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See how charming you all are! Pure hatred!!!!!
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See how charming you all are! Pure hatred!!!!!
No, frustrated with your bullshit argumentative ploys.
Also, see my sig regarding programs.
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Niles, are you that retarded!?!! There are not enough hours in the day for you my friend! You are given good information, and answers, and you still don't get it! How old are you? Is there anyway we could collectively donate to get you into a program? I can't give you all my time you whiny brat!!!!! Stop asking the same questions over, and over!
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CCM Girl, see *your* sig regarding programs.
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You can't handle the fact that not all programs are 100% bad.
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Does that really matter?
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Niles, are you that retarded!?!! There are not enough hours in the day for you my friend! You are given good information, and answers, and you still don't get it! How old are you? Is there anyway we could collectively donate to get you into a program? I can't give you all my time you whiny brat!!!!! Stop asking the same questions over, and over!
You haven't given me shit!
You have not said straight up if children were kept there who had nothing wrong with them.
You have not gone into any detail of any supposed therapy.
And for that matter you have not justified in any system of ethics to condone yearlong incarceration. Incarceration for MEDICAL reasons is only for the duration of instability and then they are RELEASED, CCMGirl.
Long term confinement is either for control or punishment and you know that!
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You can't handle the fact that not all programs are 100% bad.
a) A PROGRAM, that is, a "duck farm" or a quackish warehouse is intrinsically bad. I've been over this countless times.
b) a place that is otherwise non-abusive except for isolation from the outside world, trampling rights of the children within, and keeping them captive for no medically or legally (punishment for a crime) justified reason is still bad, because they're still being held captive for no reason except because some quack said so.
But I REALLY Doubt such a hypothetical exists. We all know what happens when you have that kind of control over someone and the expectations from the consumer (the program parents) inevitably make it degrade into a system of punishment and coercion.
c) Nice change of your sig.
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What the hell is the difference if it's the program punishing them, or the parents? In good programs the punishments are similar!!!! They are not overly excessive. You cannot force parents to parent. Some don't know how to, or even where to start! That is why some kids are so out of control, and their parents can't handle them!!!!!
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What the hell is the difference if it's the program punishing them, or the parents? In good programs the punishments are similar!!!! They are not overly excessive. You cannot force parents to parent. Some don't know how to, or even where to start! That is why some kids are so out of control, and their parents can't handle them!!!!!
A parent punishing someone is different from locking someone away for a fucking year for no reason except someone said so and punishing them there, and if I really have to spell it out then you're clearly too fucked up from your past trauma to have anything but a private opinion about this.
In other words, shut the fuck up.
In the case that parents can't parent, guess what? Their relatives, foster care, or group homes that aren't coercive and let them go to school and get jobs and have lives are available. There is no need to turn to involuntary incarceration, it isn't justified unless they are LITERALLY out of control, and those have existed since before programs came into being and will continue to long after they're gone.
Also, if a "parent" finds a child to be "out of control" but they are not medically out of control or in the custody of the police, guess what? THEY ARE NOT OUT OF CONTROL, THE PARENTS ARE FUCKING FAILURES.
Programs are NOT equipped to deal with a truly out of control teenager. They're violent and usually end up kicked out or in a jail after assaulting someone!
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Niles, you have no idea what you're talking about! I am too tired to deal with you. I'm going to bed!!!!!!
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No, you just got your ass kicked and can't think of some stupid comeback, argumentative ploy, or logical fallacy because I somehow covered every base you could think of.
So, yes, go to bed, girl. You need some time out. TheWho's probably waiting for you :wave:
(http://http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/30/holyshitcutebunniesot4.jpg)
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What the hell is the difference if it's the program punishing them, or the parents? In good programs the punishments are similar!!!! They are not overly excessive. You cannot force parents to parent. Some don't know how to, or even where to start! That is why some kids are so out of control, and their parents can't handle them!!!!!
If a parent did the same things Peninsula Village did to my step daughter under the guise of therapy, the parent would be put in jail for inflicting mental and physical abuse. PV's aware their techniques are sketchy - that's why they went batshit when my wife pulled out a camera and photographed their "restraint".
So, CCM, if you think isolation and physical harm are necessary to deal with an "out of control" kid, don't you think the parents might have been failing in their duties for a long time? The whole family needs some guidance, not the "service" these places promise but can't deliver. Randall Hinton's an idiot, you can't treat kids like pizzas. Where is the pizza delivery boy Hinton now?
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CCM girl.I also think that the wider point here is that just about all programs are incarceration without trial. I accept that there may be some that are not violent and that care on some level about the kids. But making any kid spend 3 yrs straight with no school holidays, somewhat monitored mail and few weekends with their family is a form of inprisonment even when the prison itself is comfortable.
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What the hell is the difference if it's the program punishing them, or the parents? In good programs the punishments are similar!!!! They are not overly excessive. You cannot force parents to parent. Some don't know how to, or even where to start! That is why some kids are so out of control, and their parents can't handle them!!!!!
A parent punishing someone is different from locking someone away for a fucking year for no reason except someone said so and punishing them there, and if I really have to spell it out then you're clearly too fucked up from your past trauma to have anything but a private opinion about this.
In other words, shut the fuck up.
In the case that parents can't parent, guess what? Their relatives, foster care, or group homes that aren't coercive and let them go to school and get jobs and have lives are available. There is no need to turn to involuntary incarceration, it isn't justified unless they are LITERALLY out of control, and those have existed since before programs came into being and will continue to long after they're gone.
Also, if a "parent" finds a child to be "out of control" but they are not medically out of control or in the custody of the police, guess what? THEY ARE NOT OUT OF CONTROL, THE PARENTS ARE FUCKING FAILURES.
Programs are NOT equipped to deal with a truly out of control teenager. They're violent and usually end up kicked out or in a jail after assaulting someone!
More of Niles logic:
Also, if a "child" tells a parent they have been “Abusedâ€
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Looks like TheWho's starting to get desperate again.
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If a parent did the same things Peninsula Village did to my step daughter under the guise of therapy, the parent would be put in jail for inflicting mental and physical abuse.
Miller made this exact comment during the hearing today !!
So, CCM, if you think isolation and physical harm are necessary to deal with an "out of control" kid, don't you think the parents might have been failing in their duties for a long time? The whole family needs some guidance, not the "service" these places promise but can't deliver. Randall Hinton's an idiot, you can't treat kids like pizzas. Where is the pizza delivery boy Hinton now?
There is a stark difference between Imposed Consequences and Natural Consequences. Amazing how society in general latch on to the latter and simply can't let go. I think it appeals to their sadistic side.
Did you see Hinton's pathetic attempt with the pizza analogy on the documentary. I think he even blushed when he realized he botched it beyond recovery.
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Also, if a "child" tells a parent they have been “Abusedâ€
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Looks like TheWho's starting to get desperate again.
Between this finally hitting the mainstream and CCM giving up and going home, I think he's fucked.
Hey, man, why not get a job with politicians being a spin doctor? You'll sleep better at night :D
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I was there for 7 months from 2003-2004. I apparently broke records on all of their tests and was pushed by staff to get special programs (early level 5, N.S.A.S) I did about as well or better than anyone ever has by there standards. That said, it was easily the most detrimental 7 months in my life. I did nothing but play their game and jump through their hoops. I was put there for major depression which is so imaginably inappropriate, to this day my head feels like it's going to explode when I try imagining people knowing exactly where they were sending me, then following through with it anyways. I was forced to lie through my teeth accepting responsibility for all problems with my family to "progress" in the program. But hey, at least I still have my super awesome and highly respectable in the eyes of 4 year colleges high school diploma from a treatment center.
By the way, that's about the least biased post I can make about Heritage.
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What's the most biased one you can make?
Someone needs to slam this shit down a certain survivor-turned-troll's throat, and we need ammo. Alex, can you provide?
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Yeah, I didn't hear anything about physical, psychological, sexual abuse happening? I heard no allegations made against the school. So, she was able to get through it in 7 months, she said she had to lie through her teeth. It was the most horrible 7 months of her life blah, blah, blah.
She obviously is a smart girl. I think the experience taught her more then she realizes. In time, she will come to see that.
So, where are the allegations of ABUSE????? I want to hear it! Because, obviously there were none, otherwise she would've brought it to the table immediately.
So, out of the thousands of kids who have gone through there, that's the best you got?
Once again, we all have our own different takes on how our treatment went, and what we learned from it.
No need to ram anything down my throat. Puhleese!!!!
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Do they keep kids without problems there anyway against their will?
Do they isolate ANYONE from the outside world, or legal representation?
Do they only hold people there captive who have a medical need to be?
LGATs? Restraints? Levels?
Sorry, I don't care if its Hogwarts, but those things can't be justified anywhere, even if they give everyone hookers and blow at the end of the day.
Hello.
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Yeah, I didn't hear anything about physical, psychological, sexual abuse happening? I heard no allegations made against the school. So, she was able to get through it in 7 months, she said she had to lie through her teeth. It was the most horrible 7 months of her life blah, blah, blah.
She obviously is a smart girl. I think the experience taught her more then she realizes. In time, she will come to see that.
Interesting. You do the same thing the fornits zeolots do to you. Someone states their experience, and you tell that "in time" she will realize she is wrong. Sound familiar?
Once again, we all have our own different takes on how our treatment went, and what we learned from it.
No need to ram anything down my throat. Puhleese!!!!
You have got to be kidding? If you demand this from fornits posters, you might want to start following your own advice.
You can't make posts like this up. The first half contradicts the second half. Absolutely priceless.