Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: ehm on March 22, 2004, 09:14:00 PM
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I?ve been hanging around this board for a little over a year now. While I?ve been posting here I?ve had an outlet. A place to say what I felt, no matter what it was, at any given time. I found who I wanted to find, I bitched about the things I needed to ventilate, and for about a good six month period, I dwelled, sinking into a short lived depression. Having found this enormous re-acquaintance with a terrible part of my past, that I?d never actually had the knowledge of being a victim of. I certainly had never thought of myself as a POW before! I had been a victim of Straight, Inc. What a traumatizing discovery this board was to find.
I immediately thought I had found a wonderful thing. This camaraderie of lost souls. However, that quickly changed, when I realized that flame wars were as common as trolls around here. I have witnessed many in the past year. Quite a few more than the ?regular message boards,? that have moderators that police the board. I?m not saying this is the only ?open forum? out there, but it certainly isn?t known for keeping people under any kind of control, which I know is a big part of the freedom here. However, because of this, this place can be a big boost of negative energy, and a very unhealthy outlet. Venom and hate truly do rule this board, which is understandable given the subject matter, ei, Miller Newton and Co. Love takes a back seat, but still exists in some small cracks and crevices.
This place can become a crutch, and an addiction, as well as a helpful tool. Just like anger becomes an umbrella emotion for pain, as well as a release. I have a huge apology to make to an anonymous poster who?s opinion I didn?t understand in my first few days. They were saying, ? Pace yourself and be careful.? ?People here have been known to fight dirty.? And ?There is negativity here,? Explaining how harsh this place could be, and how I shouldn?t look here for healing. I now see exactly where that person was coming from, and am sorry I misunderstood their intentions in the beginning.
I've used this board, and my experience as a child with two different ?treatments,? and a lot of abuse from my family, as an excuse to remain dysfunctional. Habitually focusing on the sorrow and regret, and not looking at the beauty the world had to offer me today. As a result, I have wasted a lot of time. I became ashamed at the way I saw myself taking life for granted, and decided to start changing everything about myself I didn?t like. After I stopped dwelling on how terrible straight had made my life, and what a victim I?d been for so long, I began to recover from it.
This place can be harsh and cruel, and has been an emotional trigger for me on occasion. It?s really played no role in the renovating of my inner being. Leaving behind a painful memory is a good thing. Dwelling in the past, and continually revisiting the past, can have negative consequences, and is an unhealthy practice. Anonymous was right. Hating is self-eradication.
Though this place may be a source of comfort and affirmation at first, it?s not a place to find inner peace, or healing for our broken hearts. Only love can do this. You truly do just have to "take responsibility" for your own happiness. I know how hard that is. They trained us to question ourselves constantly, and believe we were nothing without program. Hence, self loathing became our second skin, and anger, sadness and pain being our primary emotions. I loved the new guy?s take on the 7th step:
?I shall become so focused on the needs of others, especially others who treat me poorly that I become co dependent. I will seek to help people who continue to annihilate my self worth because this is a way of life. This is normal. This is what I do. And I shall suppress my rage until I develop some sort of compulsive behavior be it, drinking, drugs, gambling, sex, food, shopping or all of the above. My compulsive behaviors shall continue to reinforce my negative self worth and feelings of shame, worthlessness and hopelessness.? ? Again, brilliant.
When all is said and done, all you really can do is get therapy, get faith, (whatever your concept of ?faith? may be) and get over it. Never once did I say that doing this was easy, but it?s a matter of misery or inner calm. We all make choices on a daily basis, and at any time can choose to change them.
Why bury ourselves in skeletons?
Hate steals.
Love heals.
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On 2003-02-28 20:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Visiting this board often transports us to our pasts. It is understandable that you feel like you go backward 20 years, because you are visiting the past when you reflect upon it. It is hard not to "dwell" in the past when you visit it so frequently.
My experience has been that it has done a little more harm than good to visit the past for the simple reason that there is pain there. Dwelling on that pain isn't necessarily therapeutic either. We can't change the past. When I think of the past it is painful and confusing, and depressing, none of which are really therapeutic. I would submit to you that this board is not the best place to be healed of past wounds, but it is good in the sense that you will bump into people that went through similar things and may find that there is some comfort in that.
I have yet to have a truly healing experience from reading these posts. I've gotten a few chuckles, though. I've gotten a healthy dose of sarcasm and angst and sometimes a ray of light here and there. But when you look at the board as a whole you are usually looking at a massive, collective, oozing and festering wound of which we are all the official scabs thereof. Not pretty.
You have to decide whether you should visit the board or not. It is realistic to say that you may not get what you are looking for from this board. You may have to seek Jesus for total fulfillment, spiritual ecstacy, and unconditional love.
This board is simply a forum for expressing thoughts and feelings without fear of consequence. There is freedom to express "negative" emotions here. Whether or not you can or want to stomach the rants is something you should probably consider. I guess all I'm saying is don't look for more than this here. It is what it is. I would look for healing somewhere else generally speaking.
People here are understandably angry. They feel that they have a right to be angry about Straight. If that is toxic to you, then limit your time on the board. My suggestion."
On 2003-03-01 20:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I didn't mean for my post to be an all out assault on the integrity of the board. It seems that one must put on the bullet proof vests to post an opinion that isn't in agreement with the party line here. I think this kind of smear campaign is reminiscent of the brainwashed in the Straight program. It's the same intimidation, and exaggeration, and hype that I saw when I was in the program, for you respond in the exact same way as the phasers did in the program when they suspected a fellow peer to be "full of it". All that is missing is the wild flapping of arms to get called on by the officials here. The only difference is that you've changed the rallying cry from "you can be Straight this very day" to "Reject everyone who doesn't kiss OUR ass".
Like fire breathing dragons, you come down for the kill, why, because I expressed my humble opinion only. I don't know it all, but like I said before. Healing is not the objective of this site. Propaganda is. You're present world is as warped as you choose to make it and if you want to remain in the gall of bitterness over the past, Fine. I am not going to waste my precious time explaining why I said what I said. I stand by what I said.
I wasn't giving an overall critique of the board and the wonderful people here in the first place. I was simply stating my opinion, an opinion that has been expressed by other posters from time to time which always gets shut down and squashed by the fire-breathing party line. These strong arm tactics are truly unnecessary and I am disappointed at the shallowness I am seeing here, but not surprised.
To clarify, there is alot that can be offered on this board, but I still say that this board, in a general sense, is a place for venting. If that is therapeutic to you, then fine. Vent until your heart is content. Rage against that machine.
I am not in any "denial" about the problems surrounding Straight. But I refuse to give up my brain to swallow everything that I hear from you guys as infallible truth. Did I accidentally defy the Forum Papacy?
What are you guys about anyway? You act like you will never recover from Straight and admit it! That is called LOSING!!!! I know I can and will recover from my Straight inflicted wounds. I will not be pulled back into the steamy caldron of hot poopy that you bathe and romp in. You guys are nuts if you think I am going to romp in the hot stinky poo and say "it's good for you", because I am free not to romp in the stinky poo. I am free to say it is not good for you to romp in the poopy. I am free to tell others that poopy stinks. Hate me all you want, it will only make me stronger. Your ways will never win the war. You lack discipline.
"
That last part is good. ?You lack discipline.? I personally have called that, "poor impulse control.?
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Personally, I like Maude's posts and the message.
Maude Writes:
Why bury ourselves in skeletons?
Hate steals.
Love heals.
::bigsmilebounce:: ::drummer:: ::rainbow:: ::nod::
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I completely agree with Maude's post. Straight took our teenage years from us and many after that as we fought the demons that place implanted in our brains and hearts. I found healing here because it provided me a place to express my regret, shame and guilt from buying into the whole program and being on staff. I had spent years processing through the rage I had at Straight and the staff members from my program - the remainder of the years of therapy dealt with the guilt and shame I felt from being on staff and had no outlet to voice that regret. I found it here and have made no bones about the fact that many deserve to be angry with me and that I am fine with those people venting at me if they need to. I can only do that because I know I have healed many of the wounds from that place. I have plenty of scars that will always remind of Straight but I can handle the anger and pain from others because I know I am not the person Straight created and have gone to extraordinary lenghts to heal and find a new life. Straight ripped too many years of my life away from me and I refuse to give it anymore by staying rageful and angry at the things done to me or by me. I know there are many people here who post that are still seething with anger and rage and you all have every right to those emotions - I hope for you though, that at some point, you decide to let your life move forward and find healing. It is truly possible to know you hate the place and all it did to everyone there and still be successful in life, love and anything else you choose. It is a gift that only you can ultimately give yourself and I can promise you that nothing else you recieve in your life will ever compare to it. Ackowledge and be proud that somehow you are still alive and regardless of how you lead life post-Straight, you can change it and make it better. I will not lie - it is hard and sometimes it sucks ass but it is so worth it. The place stole too much from us - don't give it the rest of your life. We all deserve so much more.
Jennifer
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I think you need to be more appreciative of the expert drug treatment that you received and the self-awareness that you gained resulting from your time spent at Straight, Inc.
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Ya'll keep refering to the past, asif this story is over. It's not. Sue Rusche has recently been awarded some hundreds of thousands of Federal dollars to set up Parent Corps pilot programs in 10 states. Every time I see Maurey Povich hook some little girl up to a "lie detector" and grill her for details of her sex life, I rage. Every Ad Council propaganda spot that admonishes me to spy on my kids and suspect the worst of them pisses me off all the more because I know who's paying for the spot; you and me.
I'll get over it and quit being so angry when they quit stealing my money to pay for their efforts at trying to fuck w/ my kids. I do not believe in the collective wisdom of individual ignorance.
--Thomas Carlyle
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Well...don't watch Maury then.
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Well...don't watch Maury then
Dear Anon,
Fuck you.
Love,
Buttsteak
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Y'all who? I know for a fact that it isn't over, but my personal experience in it is. I'm talking about healing from it. I'm not a suffering helpless child with no rights anymore. I'm not a homeless, lost, self-hating drug addict either.
There are plenty of parents that still beat their kids too. Just like I?d been beaten by my father. Plenty of husbands that still batter their wives, and so on... Yes, bad things still happen all around us. That doesn?t mean that those things get to take a toll on my heart anymore.
I have deep compassion for the kids out there that are still very much "in it." I read the horror stories every week or so, I don?t turn a blind eye. I learned from the mistakes of my parents. My testimony is out there. I pass out information on the subject, and educate those who don't know about it all the time. The fact remains though, yes, these places still very much continue to torture kids, and parents are still irresponsible enough with their own children, to take the bait.
I personally think dwelling in that rage and sadness is unhealthy and fruitless.
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On 2004-03-23 08:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Well...don't watch Maury then."
I'm going to have to agree. If it's so upsetting that it takes away from your own well being and mental stability, why subject yourself?
TURN OFF YOUR TELEVISION! :tup:
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On 2004-03-23 08:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Well...don't watch Maury then."
Closing your eyes doesn't really make the world go away.The only voluntary urine sample they'll get from me is a taste test
--Bumper Sticker
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On 2004-03-23 08:45:00, Maude wrote:
"
On 2004-03-23 08:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Well...don't watch Maury then."
I'm going to have to agree. If it's so upsetting that it takes away from your own well being and mental stability, why subject yourself?
TURN OFF YOUR TELEVISION! :tup: "
I don't think Antigen was complaining about the Maury Povich show in and of itself, but using its frequent subject matter as an example of the fact that Straight-like programs are thriving all over the country.
As for "turning off the TV", well, Morli, don't you think you could also log off this website if it "takes away from your own well being and mental stability"?
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That's right. Don't think about it. Apply your Serenity Prayer and move on, Ginger. You need to focus on working your program, not worrying about the fact that kids are receiving the treatment that they so desperately need to help them deal with their drug addiction.
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you could also log off this website if it "takes away from your own well being and mental stability"?
Right you are! All I?m saying is, that all of our active pursuits are our own personal choices. If you constantly seek out conflict, anger, rage, and hatred, you?ll always find it. There is a happy medium. Very little in life is all or nothing.
Of course the world doesn?t go away, with the avoidance of negativity. The choice to do so however, can be very elucidating, and rewarding. Marinating in hatred isn't my idea of living.
Maude: A lot of people enjoy being dead. But they're not dead, really. They're just... backing away from life. Reach out. Take a chance. Get hurt, even! Play as well as you can. Go team! GO! Give me an L! Give me an I! Give me a V! Give me an E! L-I-V-E, LIVE! Otherwise, you got nothing to talk about in the locker room.
--Harold and Maude, 1971
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All I?m saying is that all of our active pursuits, are our own personal choices. If you constantly seek out conflict, anger, rage, and hatred, you?ll always find it. There is a happy medium. Very little in life is all or nothing.
Of course the world doesn?t go away, with the avoidance of negativity. The choice to do so however, can be very elucidating, and rewarding. Marinating in hatred isn't my idea of living.
The only choice you need to worry about is your decision to turn your will and your life over to the the care of Straight Inc. v2.0.
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Wasn't that you they just posted naked all over this sight? I understand not living with anger and all that, but aren't you the least bit upset? B/c I haven't heard a peep out of you about that. If that was you, I hope your child never has to see that crap. For that matter I hope to never be exposed to such a sight again either. I almost poked my eyes out. But whatever floats your boat.
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^^^^^^troll^^^^^^
::troll::
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A bout of deep depression.
Can't seem to move it forward.
My lying eyes lie awake.
Not sure what I am after.
I never died before.
Can't live what happened yesterday.
I never stoned the crow, no.
Flip through endless stories.
A life of hand-written pain.
No one can share this hurt that is mine, mine, mine.
I never died before.
Can't be what happened yesterday.
I shouldn't stone the crow, no.
Ride on!
Same old city, same old pain.
No matter how I try,
No matter what I say,
I'm blamed, I'm shamed,
I'm judged unfairly.
So now I've died before.
Jesus Christ couldnt stand the sight of me.
I never stoned the crow, no.
You too have died before.
It's more than less of yesterday.
I never stoned the crow, stoned the crow, no, no.
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I'm glad you liked my rewrite of the 7 steps. I'm new to the board. In fact I'm new to the idea that straight was abusive. I always thought of it as harsh but gosh didn't I really need that? Wasn't it better than being dead? Wasn't that the alternative? I've struggled with various compulsive behaviors, depression & co dependence since i left straight and I never really understood why. I thought it was me. Just more proof that I needed to be in that place, that somehow that "therapy" just wasn't enough. That I was crazy. It is only after entering genuine therapy that I began to understand why I did those things. Compulsive behaviors are the RESULT of repressed feelings-worthlessness,self loathing, fear,hurt and especially anger. We were never allowed to feel much less express any of those things -unless it was somehow directed at ourselves. Remember "I" only conversations. And even though I thought I had "handled" that period of my life, my subconscious has been editing and repressing for twenty years. Applying the steps just the way I rewrote them. I left straight behind but some part of my brain and my heart didn't.The voice in my head saying "get over it, Don't be such a baby" and so on is the Straight voice. I feel empowered being able to express my rage. We should all be outraged.What they did was emotionally devastating,crazy CRIMINAL. And I am NOT over it.I have just begun. I'm going to write the darling DR EVIL a letter. (I'll post it of course)My therapist loves the idea. When I ask him why all this is necessary, why I can't let it lie, he says this: When you suppress one emotion, you suppress them all. So suppressing rage suppresses joy, happiness and insight. And that energy, that emotion has to go somewhere. Compulsive behavior, self loathing, inexplicable outbursts. It doesn't just go away. It waits for opportunity.He also says that emotional therapy is a bit like physical therapy. You have to execrcise those wounds. Pull at them, stretch them and it hurts. But eventually they become stronger and hurt less. This is the best in fact the only place I can think of to do that. The bit with Dr Newton and Dr Fucktard? Sheer genius. Awesome to be able to make fun,scream and yell at them. Real or not.
I apologize if I am lecturing. I don't mean to. You are expressing concern and you are right, this all by itself is not healing. It can be overdone. It is a very raw place. We are all here to exercise our demons.Your warning is fair and your concern is kind and duly noted.
And you are right that "love heals, hate steals". I like that phrase. But sometimes love means letting people express their rage. I am happy to give Therion, myself, all of us what that Straight never did.The compassion, genuine empathy and patience to express our pain. Let Therion (sorry you're the only name I know)rant & howl about his loss. He has every right. As do we all.
And when we're done screaming maybe we can begin to heal.
Now if you'll excuse me, I've got some howling to do.
::kiss:: ::kiss:: ::kiss:: No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles
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When I ask him why all this is necessary, why I can't let it lie, he says this: When you suppress one emotion, you suppress them all. So suppressing rage suppresses joy, happiness and insight. And that energy, that emotion has to go somewhere. Compulsive behavior, self loathing, inexplicable outbursts. It doesn't just go away. It waits for opportunity. He also says that emotional therapy is a bit like physical therapy. You have to exercise those wounds. Pull at them, stretch them and it hurts. But eventually they become stronger and hurt less.
That?s a very old therapeutic philosophy, that dates back to Freudian and behaviorism concepts, and has since been proven ineffective by medical science. To be honest with you, it sounds a little like the stuff I heard in straight. Actually, ?Compulsive behavior, self loathing, and inexplicable outbursts? -- Usually stem from some type of chemical imbalance, or other form of neurological disorder, not random "suppressed" emotion. That type of therapy is commonly known by my psychiatrist as ?dwelling therapy,? ? His words -- because it supports regression techniques, and suggests analyzing past emotions. Where do you go with all the stuff you dig up? Why keep going back there? Isn?t there enough to be angry or sorrowful about in the world without holding on to the old stuff too? I?ve felt just about all the sorrow and anger I can take for one lifetime. I?ve been back there plenty of times without help, and have not been known to suppress much of anything. I just don't need to be angry anymore. It's harmful to my wellspring of life.
I apologize if I sound cheesy, but again, the concept of feeding into hatred, and rage, or frequently revisiting a painful past experience, in the name of healing or therapy, is an ancient concept, that science has since proven otherwise. I?m not saying that you don?t have every right in the world to be angry. Especially if you just realized you were a victim of that horrible place. You may go through many stages of self realization during this time, certainly including anger, rage and sadness. When I found all this information last year, I was floored! I immediately started trying to educate others on not only my experience, but the experience of others, past and present. I needed this validation! I paid for a booth on Earth day, and passed out copies of documentation. I spent eight hours that day, talking to people who were drawn in for one reason, or another. My booth had a sign that said, ?Help Stop the Abuse.? I went to Kinko?s twice that day.
I was angry and sad. Torn apart actually. I finally had confirmation that I really had been gypped. I was devastated. All this not long after we had also lost my daughter?s father, my best friend. It?s inevitable you will go through painful emotions, just don?t get stuck there. It?s always your choice, I?m not trying to tell you what to do. This is all just from my own experience. I believe that rational thought, and healthy choices should guide my life, not impulses and emotion. Therapy is about healing to me. Healing isn?t about focusing on pain. It?s about letting go of pain and fear, and growing. My doc also said that if he were in it for the money, he might go at it from that approach, since that type of therapy takes years and years. I?ve been seeing him for going on five years. I know that I took myself back to my past and ?dwelled? plenty without any encouragement from him. I wrote about it in the first of this thread. Through his guidance I have acquired tools for my life that I am profusely grateful for.
We all have individual experiences, and are on different levels of the healing process. I understand and respect that. It?s good that you are in therapy, and that you have a healthy support, you can trust. If revisiting the past helps you right now, more power to you. Just know when enough is enough.
Don?t bury yourself in skeletons.
There is much to be said about behaviorism. There are some real good books about it (e.g. J.A.Mills: Control: A history of Behavioral psychology). In general, however, most books and writings are very unclear, and behaviorists and psychologists are mostly lacking a deeper understanding of their own discipline. This may be due to the lack of scholarly studies because it is regarded a natural science, and thus consider experiments, not reading a prestigous activity. It may also be due to ideological forces that the employees of psychologists want a science that controls behavior, not conscious people in control of their own behavior. In my opinion 20th century psychology has not been Darvinist. It has not considered behavior an adaptation to the environment (but believed itself to be so). I consider psychology a historical science, the human psyche is something that developed in cultures. Anthropologists like Goody have demonstrated how writing has changed human psychology. I recommend very much the works of Kurt Danziger, a leading historian of psychology
--History & Theory of Psychology greenspun.com : LUSENET
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and your health and stability really showed through in your t&a pictures. Come on Maude give up the advice you are like the rest of us, messed up. While your here spouting about your "wellspring" and letting go of your pain, well frankly who would take you seriously after all the other stuff we have heard here. If you wish to continuously spout your over-played live in the moment of eternal joy hippie bullshit have at it. But really it is hard to take you seriously, the old saying actions speak louder than words. Didn't Dr. Newton say one thing and yet his actions didn't add up? Which means..hmmm...let me see...words are just that until your actions match up maybe? I think this whiterabbit poster is actually trying to get some where and deal with the rest of his life. Like his philosophy or not he sounds like he is trying to deal with some problems head on. My hat's off to you white rabbit.
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You?ve got to be joking, because those were really tasteful, attractive pictures. There were only two of them, and why would I care (if they were me) if my teenager ever saw them? The contours of the female form are a common artistic focus, and beautiful. You wouldn?t believe how well a friend of mine does, modeling nude for the drawing and painting classes at the college here. I don?t teach shame to my child.
If you think by posting random, faceless nudity, and then stating that it is someone you are obviously mad at, is hurting the other person, you have got a lot to learn. Just seems like another thing to add to your long list of stupid things you've said or done. Actions speak louder than words huh? Then go look in the mirror. BTW ? I believe whiterabbit is a woman, I hope she sees you for what you truly are.
You're only making yourself look bad.
The reality of the other person lies not in what he reveals to you but in what he cannot reveal to you. Therefore, if you would understand him, listen not to what he says but rather to what he does not say.
-- Kahlil Gibran
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If you think by posting random, faceless nudity, and then stating that it is someone you are obviously mad at, is hurting the other person, you have got a lot to learn.
It was you. I know. :rofl:
I don't know why you want to deny it, they're not bad pictures. :eek:
Oh well, that's what you get for not removing my real name from the board when I asked you to...
Tit for tat. :lol:
BTW, Morli...in case you suspect that the anon is me - that anon was NOT me, for what it's worth.
(If you don't believe me, just ask Ginger.)
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On 2004-03-23 10:27:00, Maude wrote:
"you could also log off this website if it "takes away from your own well being and mental stability"?
Right you are! All I?m saying is, that all of our active pursuits are our own personal choices. If you constantly seek out conflict, anger, rage, and hatred, you?ll always find it. There is a happy medium. Very little in life is all or nothing.
Of course the world doesn?t go away, with the avoidance of negativity. The choice to do so however, can be very elucidating, and rewarding. Marinating in hatred isn't my idea of living.
For around 18 years after I walked away from the Program and my natural family, I lived that philosophy. That had been my husband's advice; just relax, have some fun and live a normal life for awhile. It was a good and healthy thing at the time. I was still too close to the experience to be able to look at any of it objectively. All I knew how to do was freak the fuck out and be terrified and rageful over it.
So I told myself that I was just a little paranoid, it was just a throw-back to my weird childhood and that the world was more-or-less OK.
I started to come around to the idea that I do NOT want my kids indoctrinated in So. Florida public schools around the time my oldest was 14. She was involved in a school program called Peer Counseling (not a class, but a psych program by definition). More info:
http://www.broward.k12.fl.us/studentsup ... /peer.html (http://www.broward.k12.fl.us/studentsupport/prevention_programs/peer.html)
There's a lot they don't tell you in the brochures or in the parent orientation on conference day. First, the kids are given a special status. They're allowed to wander campus w/o a pass or a good reason and even tasked to escort other students around. Then they're encouraged to snoop and pry into the private business of other students. Whenever they come up w/ something juicy, they're obliged to report it to a staff member. Practically any one will do, but if the Peer Counselor isn't available, then the DARE cop is the prefered contact.
It was just all so Program like. I didn't find out till a couple of years later that the program was written and sold to the school systems by none other than Bill Oliver, former director of Straight, Va.
While we slept, they walked. I'm fully awake now.
He, who has nothing, and who himself belongs to another, must be defended by him, whose property he is, and needs no arms. But he, who thinks he is his own master, and has what he can call his own, ought to have arms to defend himself, and what he possesses; else he lives precariously, and at discretion.
James Burgh 1774
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Rock on, Ginger. You da man! (so to speak) :tup:
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On 2004-03-24 07:14:00, Froderik13 wrote:
"If you think by posting random, faceless nudity, and then stating that it is someone you are obviously mad at, is hurting the other person, you have got a lot to learn.
It was you. I know. :question:
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Oh, I DO think so, Virg. I really do. More pictures. ::hehehmm::
What does the group think? :smokin:
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Ginger,
I know that, and it's all really scary and corrupt. I fully agree. I'm not blind to the world, or our destructive government system, or to the fact that program lives. That still doesn't run my every thought and decision, or dictate how I act or react to my emotions towards them. I never said don't be angry. I just said that excessive anger is unhealthy.
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Maude,
Of course you shouldn't teach your daughter shame at the sight of the human body. That goes without saying. However the difference between your friend and the nude modeling is the end is art right? Or that is supposed to be the point. Exploiting the female form in my humble opinion does not make any of us more free. Before it comes up I think it's exploitation when half the male board members can come to a stright inc. board and download bathroom material, as they openly said. If you think what your friend does and your pictures which elicited responses such as "that's a MILF" are the same thing then I am ashamed for you. How can any self-respecting woman enjoy self deprecating compliments? I don't want to be judgemental as much as I think you should think about the true bottom line.
Oh you call this trolling, I call this freedom of opinion. I didn't post your pictures but I am responding to them. Again welcome to the real world, actions have reactions. I'm sorry my post made you so defensive. I just like to give an outside opinion of how your actions could be viewed. I never said if I actually agreed with any of this or not..but catcalls via the internet and art students painting your form are to different forums. All this all boils down to is if you want to be taken seriously your actions matter. Enough said and I will respond back to you no longer, listen with an open mind or not. From what has already been posted about your life is regretible anyway. I hope all the happiness you spout about does come to you one day.
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Morli (Maude) wrote:
and why would I care (if they were me)..
Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, sweetcheeks... :wink:
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Denial ain't just a river in Egypt, sweetcheeks... :wink: "
Right you are, Froderick. She obviously needs to apply her first step and admit her powerlessness. Only then will she have a chance at becoming Straight and achieving the happiness that all Straightlings feel all the time.
Morli, I think you need to make amends to Froderick for accusing him of being me. It's for your own good--you'll never receive the Gift of Awareness without making direct amends to those you have wronged. If you do it today, you have a good chance of earning Talk this Friday.
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How can any self-respecting woman enjoy self deprecating compliments? I don't want to be judgmental as much as I think you should think about the true bottom line.
Who said I enjoyed it? I responded one time about them. My response was light-hearted and honest. What was I supposed to do? Get all angry or defensive and cuss them out? I mean, who enjoys it when someone chases them all over the board harassing/trolling them? No-one! I never denied or confirmed that those pictures were or were not me, but even if they were, our opinions differ, don't they? Bottom line. Also, last time I checked, nude photography was an art form too.
I'm not spouting falsities about my life, I?m sharing what I have learned. So you don?t agree with me, that?s wonderful, because to each his own. Everyone makes personal judgments. That?s why we?re all different.
As far as you thinking that I think, I?m not, or haven?t been ?messed up? as you put it. I stated very honestly, all over this board, including in the first post of this thread, that I?ve been ?messed up.? I never denied it. Not one time. The difference is that I?ve moved on, I?ve grown.
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BULLSHIT!!! :rofl:
Those pictures are you baby! Don't try to lie, I KNOW the truth! And I've got more that you sent me, you naughty little exhibitionist you. (that's what she called herself after you sent me those)
Just admit that it's you, stop bullshitting us, and I won't post any more of them. Really pathetic of you Morli, I've lost all respect for you, lol.
There's no reason in the world why I would just accuse you out of the clear blue sky, unless I truly did know.
Deny it all you want, it's still you.
I've thoroughly enjoyed using your own words against you.
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Bottom line
Interesting choice of words, Morli
_________________
Teenage Drug Use Is A Disease[ This Message was edited by: Dr. Fucktard on 2004-03-24 10:27 ]
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On 2004-03-24 08:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
...but catcalls via the internet and art students painting your form are to different forums.
I don't think so. I think the pics posted here were excellent works of art. Funny thing, too. I read somewhere before that males like to see a face in their porno while females usually don't. So who was the target audience there?
Anyway, if you think college art students, or fully grown faculty members don't ever think of their nude models in other than artistic terms, you're kidding yourself. Rulers who wish to subvert the public liberty may have found an established clergy convenient auxiliaries. A just government, instituted to secure and perpetuate it, needs them not.
James Madison, "A Memorial and Remonstrance", 1785
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What you're doing is called Sexual Harassment.
? Visual: leering; making sexually explicit gestures; displaying sexually explicit objects, pictures, posters, or pinups.
? Verbal: derogatory comments, epithets, slurs, jokes; unwelcome sexual advances, propositions, or demands for sexual favors; unwelcome comments about an individual's body or appearance.
? Physical: unwanted touching, such as patting, pinching, hugging, brushing against another's body, coerced kissing or fondling, physical assault.
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On 2004-03-24 10:40:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What you're doing is called Sexual Harassment.
?h Visual: leering; making sexually explicit gestures; displaying sexually explicit objects, pictures, posters, or pinups.
?h Verbal: derogatory comments, epithets, slurs, jokes; unwelcome sexual advances, propositions, or demands for sexual favors; unwelcome comments about an individual's body or appearance.
?h Physical: unwanted touching, such as patting, pinching, hugging, brushing against another's body, coerced kissing or fondling, physical assault.
"
No, Mr. Cochran, this does not constitute sexual harrassment. First of all, the photos in question were sent to Froderick unsolicited--if anybody did any sexual harrassment, it was Maude, when she sent the photos to an unsuspecting Froderick13.
Secondly, there is an issue of consent. Apparently Morli wants people to see these pictures, she even referred to herself as an "exhibitonist"
Third, what is the motive behind the alleged "harrassment"? I seriously doubt that either Morli or Froderick was trying to get any type of financial or employment related gain by sharing the photos.
People like you make me sick. Sexual harrassment is a serious issue that is trivialized when assholes like you make accusations of this type when they are clearly not warranted. The same goes for Hacker's comment about Froderick13 being a "sexist predator"--whatever the fuck that is--To throw around accusations like that in such a frivolous manner is disgusting to anyone with an ounce of compassion for the victims of sexual predators and sexual harrassment. People with your attitude, which I like to call the "Witch Hunt" mentality, not only do wrong by those that they falsely or lightly accuse, but also do injustice to the victims because your blathering casts doubt on their credibility. Sexual harrassment and predation are not things to cry "wolf!" about.
_________________
Your sponsor says it's OK for you to drink[ This Message was edited by: RTP2003 on 2004-03-24 10:55 ]
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And the scat pictures were "sexual harassment" and this is now an all out flame war!
fucking let it go!
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Uh, could we have more pictures please? It is just so much easier to get my porn AND post here in the same place.
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And the scat pictures were "sexual harassment" and this is now an all out flame war!
fucking let it go!
Bullshit, motherfucker. I'll post some more just for you, unless you can successfully argue the point that posting pictures of *anything* on an OPEN, PUBLIC FORUM constitutes "harassment."
What a dope you are. A thought just occurred...anon - are you Morli?
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Ginger,
Of course there is a difference between an art and her pictures. First the students volunteer to have to study the nude model. Last time I checked this was a Straight forum and nowhere did I agree to view her...another thing if there is no difference how come Hustler doesn't use any classical paintings for their centerfolds? UH...Need help with the answer? B/c there is a difference.
I personally am all for nudity whenever possible. However unlike my fellow liberals I see the difference between my opinion, my rights and how to not tread on the views of others. I won't answer my door nude or go to work nude. Your the only one kidding yourself with your liberal reteric.
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Your the only one kidding yourself with your liberal reteric."
Ginger a liberal? I don't think so--from what I've read, she seems like a Libertarian. Maybe even a little to the Right.
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On 2004-03-24 14:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Last time I checked this was a Straight forum and nowhere did I agree to view her...
Your the only one kidding yourself with your liberal reteric."
UH, last time I checked, she didn't post those. Also, it's "YOU'RE" not "YOUR" when you want to say "you are" dipshit.
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On 2004-03-24 14:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
I won't answer my door nude or go to work nude.
Well, I won't go to work naked, but sometimes I just feel like putting a smile on the UPS man's face. :grin: :grin: When a well-packaged web of lies
has been sold gradually to the masses
over generations, the truth will seem
utterly preposterous and its speaker
a raving lunatic.
--Dresden James
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On 2004-03-24 14:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
I won't answer my door nude or go to work nude.
Hey, don't knock it if you haven't tried it! That happens to be a very effective way to deal with those annoying early morning door-ro-door evangelists.Peace and abstinence from European interferences are our objects, and so will continue while the present order of things in America remain uninterrupted.
--Thomas Jefferson
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On 2004-03-24 14:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"I personally am all for nudity whenever possible."
(http://http://www.geocities.com/nineballracker2004/nudepic.txt)
Good for you, so am I... :wink:
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Now THAT'S what I call art!
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Alright, the only problem I have with people posting shit like this is that it makes me feel OLD!!! ::mecry::
Necessity never made a good bargain
--Benjamin Franklin Apr. 1734
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Me too. You wanna feel really, really old? She's damned near our age! Life's not fair, is it?
Whenever the General Government assumes undelegated powers, its acts are unauthoritative, void, and of no force.
Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798
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gee thank's Ginger, I needed to hear that[/b].
If it is believed that... elementary schools will be better managed by the governor and council, the commissioners of the literary fund or any other general authority of the government than by the parents within each ward, it is a belief against all experience.
Thomas Jefferson
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On 2004-03-23 10:27:00, Maude wrote:
"you could also log off this website if it "takes away from your own well being and mental stability"?
Right you are! All I?m saying is, that all of our active pursuits are our own personal choices. If you constantly seek out conflict, anger, rage, and hatred, you?ll always find it. There is a happy medium. Very little in life is all or nothing.
Of course the world doesn?t go away, with the avoidance of negativity. The choice to do so however, can be very elucidating, and rewarding. Marinating in hatred isn't my idea of living.
Maude: A lot of people enjoy being dead. But they're not dead, really. They're just... backing away from life. Reach out. Take a chance. Get hurt, even! Play as well as you can. Go team! GO! Give me an L! Give me an I! Give me a V! Give me an E! L-I-V-E, LIVE! Otherwise, you got nothing to talk about in the locker room.
--Harold and Maude, 1971
"
:roll: :roll: :roll:
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i understand what you are saying. This is not necessarily a healthy place to settle in and get comfortable. Not a good idea to let this become straight part 2. Don't let them continue to take. All true. I noted that to myself early on. Take what is useful and helpful here and let the rest go.It's good advice and I intend to take it.
Sounds like you are in a different phase-no pun intended. Good for you. Sincerely. I am still in the "What do you mean he's NOT ACTUALLY a DOCTOR" and "there's a SURVIVOR's website?"phase.
I am also grieving the loss of my husband. He died in a motorcycle accident 8 mos ago.The impetus for my therapy.
So I am cleaning out my closet. Dragging the skeletons out into the daylight so that I 'm not afraid to look in there anymore. So that I can start over. Move forward.
Fresh beauty opens one's eyes wherever it is really seen, but the very abundance and completeness of the common beauty that besets our steps prevents its being absorbed and appreciated. It is a good thing, therefore, to make short excursions now and then to the bottom of the sea among dulse and coral, or up among the clouds on mountain-tops, or in balloons, or even to creep like worms into dark holes and caverns underground, not only to learn something of what is going on in those out-of-the-way places, but to see better what the sun sees on our return to common everyday beauty.
-- John Muir
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Her mother used to hit her
To an uncontrolled consumption of an absolute solution
Experience with drug abuse
Taking this drug of peace
Slowly taking its toll
Never question, love thru addiction
Collecting this emptiness
Recollect a calm self-centered guess
Every broken promise
To bleed the soul free
Faith is not the answer
A promise that must end
Left her standing to face her own way
Face to face
Thought you could...
Never thought you would...
Fall this steep
Overdose intentional
5 or 6 times
For reasons being to die
Broken out fight
Unable to focus
Late night on knees
Scraping scarred brush burns
A lethal move for ecstasy
Lying curled-up in the corner of the bathroom
Hung over from the night before
A wrong signal for an intertwined love affair
Putting yourself in a disaster over a childish dare
Eyes opening to smooth trail of blood on the floor
Leading to the trash can next to the door
You wanted to be intimate...he wanted to fuck
Skill of prostitution down the drain for one more dose
Indulge in the innocence of each other's addiction
Sitting next to your mate doing drug time
Vintage lust for a lost modern age
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On 2004-03-25 20:34:00, whiterabbit wrote:
I am also grieving the loss of my husband. He died in a motorcycle accident 8 mos ago.The impetus for my therapy.
I'm sorry to hear that. :cry: I suppose a loss like that tends to make you re-evaluate just about everything. Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize an undercover dictatorship. To restrict the art of healing to one class of men, and deny equal privilege to others, will be to constitute the Bastille of medical science. All such laws are un-American and despotic, and have no place in a Republic. The Constitution of this Republic should make special privilege for medical freedom as well as religious freedom.
--Abridged quote-Benjamin Rush, M.D., a signer of the Declaration of Independence
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Absolutely everything.past present and future. :cry:
A multitude of laws in a country is like a great number of physicians, a sign of weakness and malady.
--Voltaire, philosopher (1694-1778)
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Darren was in a car accident. Given the circumstances, you sound like you're doing pretty well. I'm so very sorry for your loss. Often he's the first thing I go to sleep thinking about, or fresh on my mind each morning. My daughter's getting older, and misses him more. Yearns to spend time with, and know a Daddy that she'll never get a chance to. I think about this all the time. She actually cries for him now. She knows now she doesn't know him. She remembers him, but it wasn't enough. It?s taken over two years for her to truly realize. I tell her about him all the time. She was nine when it happened. She's so much like him, that it's a constant reminder of how funny he was, and how we interacted and loved each other. I talk to her in the voice ?we? used to talk to each other in, she?s learned it and talks back. Three years later doesn't take much of it away, but I?m not breaking down all the time like I did almost constantly the first two years. It's the early morning or late at night now that I?ll have these crazy irrational thoughts like, worrying about him getting dirty, or imagining his disintegration progress. Slowly letting it slip further away into time. Feeling sorry for everything he's missing, wanting to turn back clocks daily. Does any of that make sense? I often see him on the slab again, and remember the feeling of desperation of you wanting him to wake up. I go through the funeral in my mind. I still worry about him. I cry privately now, except where his mother is concerned. We?ve shared lots of tears. You really do re-think what matters in life when things like this happen. It changes your heart. Anyway, I?m babbling... I really feel where you're coming from. Take care.
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i am so sorry for your loss. It is so hard to lose someone you love.
David was in a motorcycle accident. They never would let me see him. I could have insisted but we had talked about things like that. He lost his father at 19 and then his sister a month later to a drunk driver. He wished he had never seen her. Said if anything ever happened to him, he wanted to be remembered alive. Still it is hard to not see him one last time. I'd give anything to have been able to hold his hand touch him or just look at him. Just to say goodbye. We have 2 sons. Robbie is now 17 and Ryan is 13. Robbie screamed and cried. Put holes in our walls. And still does from time to time. Ryan grieves in silence. I worry about him. He is seeing a therapist as well. He is so much like his dad, even looks just like him. It tears me up sometimes just looking at him. I ache every day for David. I cannot yet imagine my future without him. So I'm taking it a day at a time, believing that one day it will be better.
No drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we're looking for the sources of our troubles, we shouldn't test people for drugs, we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power.
P. J. O'Rourke
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I'm so sorry for yours also. My daughter went to see him too. She asked me to take her after she'd found out that I'd gone. She held his hand and actually said, ?Good-bye Daddy.? Given the circumstances of the accident, it was kind of a mystery as to how it actually happened for the first couple of weeks. His body was found 180 feet, across a whole other road, in the middle of a field. Officers first on the scene didn't even realize there was a body, it was dark, and so far from the car. Because of the weird circumstances, they looked into it as a possible homicide. His injuries were so minor for a fatal car accident, it almost appeared that he'd been beaten, and dragged away. No scratches, or cuts. Just a broken arm, left sided bruising, and a hole in the back of his head. His face was untouched, except for his right ear. None of the windows of the car were broken either, it was bizarre. Sense I didn't know what had really happened, I had to see him. I was in denial, my first instinct was to blame someone else for this happening. Weeks later the investigating officer explained the accident to me. He lost control for a second, and flipped the car at an incline his left front tire had caught, the driver?s door flew open while flipping, catapulting his body 180 feet to his death. I saw several pictures. I don't like seeing them in my head now, but part of me so desperately wanted to know exactly what happened.
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it does seem so important to know exactly what happened. Part of the grief process they say. Like the need to tell the story. I have yet to receive the medical examiner's report but the ME filled me in. David lost control coming into a corner too fast. His bike hit the berm, broke the wheel and went onto it's side. He slid into a guardrail, face first.The bike barely looked damaged outside of the broken rim and things sheered off on one side. He took the full force of the impact and was killed instantly. I'm glad he didn't suffer.That thought used to keep me awake at night until I knew. My son went to the accident sight that night. I was afraid to let him go but he seemed to really need to. He brought home pieces of the motorcycle, David's sunglasses, the chin strap from the helmet. It has been a slow and difficult goodbye for all of us. Sometimes I think seeing him would have been better but given the nature of the accident I just don't know. I might be worse off having that image in my mind.
Hope you and your daughter are healing well.
Oops forgot to log in
whiterabbit
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You too. ::heart::
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On 2004-03-24 15:10:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2004-03-24 14:00:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Last time I checked this was a Straight forum and nowhere did I agree to view her...
Your the only one kidding yourself with your liberal reteric."
UH, last time I checked, she didn't post those. Also, it's "YOU'RE" not "YOUR" when you want to say "you are" dipshit."
What are you doing? You are suppose to be spell checking MY posts.
NEW INCINTIVE FOR EMPLOYEES..........
Work or get fired!