Fornits
General Interest => Open Free for All => Topic started by: psy on September 08, 2010, 07:25:55 PM
-
Laws
1. If a thread already exists on a topic, use it, rather than start a new one.
2. Don't derail threads by changing the topic. Start a new topic.
3. No outing of home addresses or phone numbers without a person's consent. This includes linking to such information.
4. Post your topics in the appropriate forum, with an appropriate name.
5. Multiple usernames are disallowed if you use them for sockpuppetry (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)). Sockpuppets will be outed.
6. No attacking other posters with insults (this includes driving parents off). You can make your point with civility. Responding to an insult with an insult is not a justification.
7. Impersonation of another poster or living person is not allowed, unless it is obvious parody. The standard is this: if a stupid person could mistake the identity to be that of the parodied, it's a violation. You may either agree to have such an account labeled as "parody" or have it deleted.
8. One unmoderated forum will remain (open free for all) however it will be opt-in, similar to the drama box.
Bill of Rights
1. You have the right to your opinion, however unpopular. You will not be disciplined for your opinions so long their expression stays within the rules of the forum.
2. You have a right to an impartial moderation. If you get into an argument with a moderator, that moderator may not punish you and must rely on the judgement of another moderator.
3. You have the right to an appeal. If you feel you were treated unjustly by one of our moderators you have the right to request an appeal. A panel of moderators will go over your case and make a decision affirming or overturning the decision. Affirmations must be unanimous.
4. You have a right to be informed of all correspondance concerning your case.
5. You have the right to privacy. You have the right to create a second or third account for the purposes of retaining anonymity.
Penalties:
You will be informed if you violate a rule. If repeated violation occur, your account may be disabled temporarily. After your account is enabled again, you will be considered on a probationary period. If further violations occur, you may be banned permanently.
This constitution only applies to postings from this point on (9/8/2010).
I'll be editing this rough draft as we come up with ideas. I welcome feedback. Just so we're clear, once these rules are finalized, they'll apply to everybody regardless of their opinions or group affiliation.
-
How about something like, "You may edit your posts for 30 minutes after submitting them. After 30 minutes, no post can be edited or deleted."
or...
Vitriolic posts that personally attack people, will not be tolerated and are grounds for banning the author from this message board.
Any person that is here to cause trouble, start arguments and/or intimidate people, will be banned.
Don't post any contact information without specific permission in advance from a moderator. Contact information posted without permission will be deleted.
Any comment posted at this message board may subsequently be edited or deleted by the specifically designated moderators.
The owners of this message board have the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.
If you agree to these terms, please check the "I agree" box at the end of the page.
-
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
-
How about something like, "You may edit your posts for 30 minutes after submitting them. After 30 minutes, no post can be edited or deleted."
SEKTO what year did Stalin die? Breathe, drink a six pack of beer, take a walk in the park and relax. :D
Hey, just my opinion. You're not obligated to agree with it.
-
In light of the decision to moderate the forum i'm developing a set of rules along with a set of guaranteed rights which will not be infringed.
Laws
1. If a thread already exists on a topic, use it, rather than start a new one.
2. Don't derail threads by changing the topic. Start a new topic.
4. Post your topics in the appropriate forum.
3. No outing of home addresses or phone numbers without a person's consent. This includes linking to such information.
5. Multiple usernames are disallowed if you use them for sockpuppetry (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)). Sockpuppets will be outed.
6. No attacking other posters with insults (this includes driving parents off). You can make your point with civility. Responding to an insult with an insult is not a justification.
7. One unmoderated forum will remain (open free for all) however it will be opt-in, similar to the drama box.
Bill of Rights
1. You have the right to your opinion, however unpopular. You will not be disciplined for your opinions so long their expression stays within the rules of the forum.
2. You have a right to an impartial moderation. If you get into an argument with a moderator, that moderator may not punish you and must rely on the judgement of another moderator.
3. You have the right to an appeal. If you feel you were treated unjustly by one of our moderators you have the right to request an appeal. A panel of moderators will go over your case and make a decision affirming or overturning the decision. Affirmations must be unanimous.
4. You have a right to be informed of all correspondance concerning your case.
5. You have the right to privacy. You have the right to create a second or third account for the purposes of retaining anonymity.
Penalties:
You will be informed if you violate a rule. If repeated violation occur, your account may be disabled temporarily. After your account is enabled again, you will be considered on a probationary period. If further violations occur, you may be banned permanently.
This constitution only applies to postings from this point on.
I'll be editing this rough draft as we come up with ideas. I welcome feedback. Just so we're clear, once these rules are finalized, they'll apply to everybody regardless of their opinions or group affiliation.
Will the "unmoderated box" be as it is now anything goes, profane language, bullying, ganging up on folks from the same people, sarcasim, ect...not for the timid.
I hope not seriously, I can only hope that fornits is turning a page and ridding itself of any avenues that ridicule others. This is exactly what I saw when I got here and became a part of it. Not making excuses or pointing fingers just being honest. I think we need to just "chill out' for a while with all the grudges, resentments and hurt feelings and not be allowed any avenue to start this viciousness again. Myself "big time" included in all of what I just said.
Moderation will definitely curb addiction to "personality disorders" here fo'sur.
-
OH SHIT.....I AM OUTTA HERE.....EMPERIAL CRUSADES ON FORNITS!!!
FUCKIN ELITISTS! :beat:
-
How about something like, "You may edit your posts for 30 minutes after submitting them. After 30 minutes, no post can be edited or deleted."
SEKTO what year did Stalin die? Breathe, drink a six pack of beer, take a walk in the park and relax. :D
Hey, just my opinion. You're not obligated to agree with it.
LOL
NICE SIGN
-
Will the "unmoderated box" be as it is now anything goes, profane language, bullying, ganging up on folks from the same people, sarcasim, ect...not for the timid.
Yes, but it's opt-in.
I hope not seriously, I can only hope that fornits is turning a page and ridding itself of any avenues that ridicule others.
Well. There needs to be an outlet or moderation will never work.
-
bump
-
So we can out a person by name still?
-
I think moderation of specific forums is change for the better.
I’ve had some considerable concern and confusion about why there would be an area like the OFFA, if every forum can become an attack venue that obscures information about the school/ program or topic being discussed or worse cause posters who are put off by the most prolific and relentless to retreat.
That’s not to say that I don’t agree that an Open Free For All has an important role on Fornits. Certainly considering the incendiary nature of some discussions, as well as sequelae of abusive programming experiences and inevitable sparks over differences of opinion there should be a place where explosions can be contained w/out reducing everything around it to rubble.
I’m all about no posting personal info of other posters, any kids and their parents and even staff. Though I think such considerations for Directors who have started or put their stink on one or even many abusive programs might eventually be a grey area for me.
I’m down for (with privacy exemptions) no more sock-puppeted *testimonials*.
I’m all-in for being able to find decent debate, engaging conversation, thoughtful observation and even just some silly frivolity w/ out my brain flinching from having to sift through what was aptly called text vomit.
Additionally, I’d really like more people to support imposing a death penalty on smiley abusers.
-
Since we are all up in arms about making this place a better place could you start here:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=29840&start=1515 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=29840&start=1515)
You'll notice mr. babble tits posted Felice's personal records on an open forum. I'd like them deleted and him warned. Do so quickly please or this entire thing is going to end up a sham.
-
Hello again. Im gonna repost what I wrote on another thread, In view of that youre solidifying rules and that I feel there is a necessity to perserve the right to "name names" in some regards, even while ending the right to "name names" in other frameworks . What che's referencing illustrates the kind of posting of personal info that should not be tolerated (i dont know the whole background, but obviously it's done for reasons that are not related to teen abuse but for unreasonable "flame war" concerns)
Since we are all up in arms about making this place a better place could you start here:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=29840&start=1515 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=29840&start=1515)
You'll notice mr. babble tits posted Felice's personal records on an open forum. I'd like them deleted and him warned. Do so quickly please or this entire thing is going to end up a sham.
On the other hand there are times we should have the right to "name names"...
I see your points. The problem I see there is then we couldn't link to "free so and so campaigns" and such. We couldn't even post names of teens who commit suicide post incarceration or in program. Should fornits administrators really demand posters be "secret keepers," not able to even link to identities’ intricate in this abomination and bury their terrible secret knowledge? I appreciate that it is embarrassing to be exposed as a child abuser for former staff(Joel), I appreciate it is embarrassing for program parents to be exposed as criminals, I appreciate that, in the pile case, that maybe everyone involved wanted what was transpiring to be done secretly. But I don't see why that's fornits posters' burden of secrets to carry...at least not to the point they can't even link to another site about it
-
I think the "free so and so" is ok. I'm just opposed to home phone numbers and addresses. At that point, as Ginger once put it, things cross from the virtual into the real world and can start affecting people's lives.
-
Psy
Programs have and still are affecting lives. What we do here is very real and involves people's lives and their ability to live them free of being coerced in a treatment program. You may want to consider what impact this will have on the Straight community and those who want to kick Virgil Newton in the ass. This isn't as clear cut as you make it out to be.
-
.
-
Maximillian for moderator, let's put the biggest liar on fornits up there to rule over us.
You go posterX!
-
.
-
Yeah moderator, protect Maxie pad from this bad motherfucker that I am.
-
Psy
You may want to consider what impact this will have on the Straight community and those who want to kick Virgil Newton in the ass.
I'm confused. What impact will it have?
-
Edited: Wednesday, October 06, 2010
-
Hello again. Im gonna repost what I wrote on another thread, In view of that youre solidifying rules and that I feel there is a necessity to perserve the right to "name names" in some regards, even while ending the right to "name names" in other frameworks . What che's referencing illustrates the kind of posting of personal info that should not be tolerated (i dont know the whole background, but obviously it's done for reasons that are not related to teen abuse but for unreasonable "flame war" concerns)
Since we are all up in arms about making this place a better place could you start here:
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=29840&start=1515 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=29840&start=1515)
You'll notice mr. babble tits posted Felice's personal records on an open forum. I'd like them deleted and him warned. Do so quickly please or this entire thing is going to end up a sham.
On the other hand there are times we should have the right to "name names"...
I see your points. The problem I see there is then we couldn't link to "free so and so campaigns" and such. We couldn't even post names of teens who commit suicide post incarceration or in program. Should fornits administrators really demand posters be "secret keepers," not able to even link to identities’ intricate in this abomination and bury their terrible secret knowledge? I appreciate that it is embarrassing to be exposed as a child abuser for former staff(Joel), I appreciate it is embarrassing for program parents to be exposed as criminals, I appreciate that, in the pile case, that maybe everyone involved wanted what was transpiring to be done secretly. But I don't see why that's fornits posters' burden of secrets to carry...at least not to the point they can't even link to another site about it
The name isn't the issue rather what people do with telephone numbers and addresses etc [where moderation comes into play]. Tony and Angela Smith methods were cruel in my humble opinion but that's the nature of the beast. There was a telephone number of a family member linked. Angela Smith's claims were false. You are entitled to your opinion I am an abuser; I will pay you proper respects. You believe children have the right to "out " staffers and I agree with you. Do I have the right, as a former staffer, to question survivors who "claim" they were sent to programs for something small? There are some survivors, IMHO, who play the child abuser card for wrong reasons.
Joel I could not have said it better, thanks.
-
It wasn't nuked. You'll find it in Open Free For All.
Do the threads in OFFA not show up under "new posts"?
-
It wasn't nuked. You'll find it in Open Free For All.
Do the threads in OFFA not show up under "new posts"?
Nope. Do not.
-
It wasn't nuked. You'll find it in Open Free For All.
Do the threads in OFFA not show up under "new posts"?
Nope. Do not.
I can make it so they do. You'll just have to enter a password to the forum every time you log on... Actually. I've just gone ahead and done that. the password is "offa".
-
It wasn't nuked. You'll find it in Open Free For All.
Do the threads in OFFA not show up under "new posts"?
Nope. Do not.
I can make it so they do. You'll just have to enter a password to the forum every time you log on... Actually. I've just gone ahead and done that. the password is "offa".
Doesn't matter to me either way...was just wondering. Thanks tho. :seg2: I usually just his the "new posts" instead of going to the individual forums.
-
I just had a thread of mine deleted that I posted in the Open Free for All. Is that forum moderated after all? It would appear so.
-
I just had a thread of mine deleted that I posted in the Open Free for All. Is that forum moderated after all? It would appear so.
No thread of yours was deleted in offa.
-
That appears to be correct. Now you have to sign in with a password, how convenient. :on phone:
-
Well, it appears this new "constitution" only offers protection to spammy/flooding pro-program trolls.
Whooter is busy spamming/derailing several threads as we speak, but the admins just let him get away with it. If it were an anti-program person doing this they'd be banned.
There's too much "affirmative action" for the pro-program trolls here. The admin is unwilling to enforce the rules evenly, choosing to ignore the behavior of Mr. Whooter who has already been warned about derailing, but continues to do it anyway. This is what I figured would happen.
-
Psy, are we going to still allow a member to post under another members username, example DannyB II with the "male pic" posting under my user name, with the intent to discredit me. I would think this behavior would fall under one of these rules.
No one should be allowed to infringe on anothers personal domain, even here. Is there not a way to stop this upon registering, as is the case with other sites, if the user name already exists you can not use it.
Please, take this under advisement please. I have already had people mistaken me for this impostor.
5. Multiple usernames are disallowed if you use them for sockpuppetry. Sockpuppets will be outed.
6. No attacking other posters with insults (this includes driving parents off). You can make your point with civility. Responding to an insult with an insult is not a justification.
-
Danny quit crying. If you go to the OFFA section that other danny already pledged to only inhabit that area of Fornits. Rules Broken: Zero. I repeat, quit crying.
-
Psy, are we going to still allow a member to post under another members username, example DannyB II with the "male pic" posting under my user name, with the intent to discredit me.
Actually think you have a point. I've been impersonated. Ursus has been impersonated. I think that unless an impersonation of another poster should be disallowed (except, of course, in Open Free for All), and impersonation of a living person who is not a poster should only be allowed if it is obvious parody (example: Miller Newton or Dr. Fucktard.). I think the standard is this: if a reasonable person could mistake the identity to be that of the parodied, it's a violation.
I would think this behavior would fall under one of these rules.
No one should be allowed to infringe on anothers personal domain, even here. Is there not a way to stop this upon registering, as is the case with other sites, if the user name already exists you can not use it.
Danny B 11's username is not the same. he uses elevens instead of "I"'s. It's close enough to be considered a violation. *however* if Danny B 11 wants, I can add a "parody" label under the username. That would make it permissible.
-
I think if your going to spend time on piffling bullshit like this you've already defeated the purpose of the new rules. But whatever, good luck with it.
-
I think if your going to spend time on piffling bullshit like this you've already defeated the purpose of the new rules. But whatever, good luck with it.
Well. Impersonation of other posters does cause real issues. Remember back when Ursus was being impersonated by a person who posted neo-nazi stuff in his name. It was convincing enough for my mother to call me up and ask what got into Ursus. You might not see direct results here, but there are others who read Fornits and destroying somebody's reputation like that should not be allowed.
-
I think if your going to spend time on piffling bullshit like this you've already defeated the purpose of the new rules. But whatever, good luck with it.
Well. Impersonation of other posters does cause real issues. Remember back when Ursus was being impersonated by a person who posted neo-nazi stuff in his name. It was convincing enough for my mother to call me up and ask what got into Ursus. You might not see direct results here, but there are others who read Fornits and destroying somebody's reputation like that should not be allowed.
Che is right. Why not keep it simple: only one username per participant? This of course would apply everyone, including myself.
-
Psy, are we going to still allow a member to post under another members username, example DannyB II with the "male pic" posting under my user name, with the intent to discredit me.
Actually think you have a point. I've been impersonated. Ursus has been impersonated. I think that unless an impersonation of another poster should be disallowed (except, of course, in Open Free for All), and impersonation of a living person who is not a poster should only be allowed if it is obvious parody (example: Miller Newton or Dr. Fucktard.). I think the standard is this: if a reasonable person could mistake the identity to be that of the parodied, it's a violation.
I would think this behavior would fall under one of these rules.
No one should be allowed to infringe on anothers personal domain, even here. Is there not a way to stop this upon registering, as is the case with other sites, if the user name already exists you can not use it.
Danny B 11's username is not the same. he uses elevens instead of "I"'s. It's close enough to be considered a violation. *however* if Danny B 11 wants, I can add a "parody" label under the username. That would make it permissible.
From the looks of it, the only folks who might potentially confuse DannyB11 with DannyB II might be one of the many personages posting under the name of DannyB II. It would appear that they don't always compare notes with one another.
-
I've updated the rules. If a stupid person could possibly confuse the two accounts, it's disallowed. Like all the other rules, they don't apply to Open Free For All.
-
I propose these:
You may edit your posts for 30 minutes after submitting them. After 30 minutes, no post can be edited or deleted.
You may remain anonymous, but if you wish to remain anonymous don't post identifying details on the board.
Please note the general topic headings listed at the main page of this forum and the related subheadings of each thread. Posting random statements about unrelated subjects is not appreciated.
This forum is not a place for advertising or business promotions. Helpful relevant links posted are appreciated, but please don't post links for the purpose of promotion.
Under no circumstances may a registrant use more than one user name. Each participant may only register once and must be identified by a single user name. Multiple people may not post under the same user name, nor may one person post under multiple user names.
Just my two cents, nobody is obligated to agree with me...
-
I think if your going to spend time on piffling bullshit like this you've already defeated the purpose of the new rules. But whatever, good luck with it.
Well. Impersonation of other posters does cause real issues. Remember back when Ursus was being impersonated by a person who posted neo-nazi stuff in his name. It was convincing enough for my mother to call me up and ask what got into Ursus. You might not see direct results here, but there are others who read Fornits and destroying somebody's reputation like that should not be allowed.
Well... I just put my big-boy pants on and, amazingly enough, I survived. I was kinda hoping the lil twirp would show his face again. :D
-
I propose these:
You may edit your posts for 30 minutes after submitting them. After 30 minutes, no post can be edited or deleted.
Just because a few people abuse that feature doesn't mean we should take it away. If you want to save a person's post, quote it or take a screenshot.
You may remain anonymous, but if you wish to remain anonymous don't post identifying details on the board.
That's already in the rules.
Please note the general topic headings listed at the main page of this forum and the related subheadings of each thread. Posting random statements about unrelated subjects is not appreciated.
That's already in the rules (derailing, post in appropriate forums)
This forum is not a place for advertising or business promotions. Helpful relevant links posted are appreciated, but please don't post links for the purpose of promotion.
It would be very difficult to define promotion.
Under no circumstances may a registrant use more than one user name. Each participant may only register once and must be identified by a single user name. Multiple people may not post under the same user name, nor may one person post under multiple user names.[/b]
People have a right to privacy. Lots of people use alternate usernames for the times they want to talk about controversial issues they don't want their main account associated with. As long as it's not sockpuppetry -- as long as it's not in the same thread. I don't see a problem with it.
I appreciate the suggestions but I'd like to keep the free spirit of the original forum alive without restricting things to much.
-
Today I invited an old DAYTOP buddy to participate here.
This is the guy I have written of before who was in both Straight and DAYTOP, and who I have said looks like Vanilla Ice.
He was not offended at all when I told him that he looks like Vanilla Ice; in fact, he thought that it was funny and told me that Vanilla Ice ripped off his style.
He's a good guy, was psyched to share his story here, and I warned him that this was a rough cyber-'hood.
It blew his mind that such a forum existed to discuss the TTI and I just don't want him to get scared off by the trolls and bullshit, like so many other potential participants do.
Fornits was good for my growth and healing and I just want it to be the same way for others. I have generally had a good experience with this and am grateful for fornits' existence.
But like I've written before, if I'd realized how nasty this place can be, then I myself would NEVER have posted anything in the first place.
I am all for more professional moderation. That does not make me a hyper-authoritarian dictator.
-
As long as it's not sockpuppetry --
One man's prose ... is another man's sock puppet. How are ya gonna differentiate?
-
As long as it's not sockpuppetry --
One man's prose ... is another man's sock puppet. How are ya gonna differentiate?
Same poster, two or more accounts, same thread. Exceptions apply to obvious parody with the same standard as the impersonation rule.
Unless you got a better test, I think that would work.
-
As long as it's not sockpuppetry --
One man's prose ... is another man's sock puppet. How are ya gonna differentiate?
Same poster, two or more accounts, same thread. Exceptions apply to obvious parody with the same standard as the impersonation rule.
Unless you got a better test, I think that would work.
Mmm. Sounds mighty nit-pickity. I guess my point was: why even bother putting yourself in the position of having to judge?
Too many rules ... spoil the discussion.
-
As long as it's not sockpuppetry --
One man's prose ... is another man's sock puppet. How are ya gonna differentiate?
Same poster, two or more accounts, same thread. Exceptions apply to obvious parody with the same standard as the impersonation rule.
Unless you got a better test, I think that would work.
Mmm. Sounds mighty nit-pickity. I guess my point was: why even bother putting yourself in the position of having to judge?
Too many rules ... spoil the discussion.
Too many trolls and drama whores also spoil the discussion, in fact prevent any real discussion from happening in the first place.
-
Or.. rather than discuss it.. Do an IP check and just nuke the fucker.
No discussion needed.
Killin' time.
Not everything needs to be discussed over and over and over again. We have this damn thing, now go friggin use it or shut up about it.
-
Do you think that maybe someone should be assigned to help people through this transition? Maybe like a sponsor. I can think of one or two posters who will be wandering aimlessly in the Drama Box building John D Reuben threads for many months.
...
-
Or.. rather than discuss it.. Do an IP check and just nuke the fucker.
No discussion needed.
Killin' time.
Not everything needs to be discussed over and over and over again.
Yeah, that's kinda similar to my mind about the whole thing too. I also think judicious use of temporary banning, when and only if absolutely needed, is far healthier, for all concerned, than all this rigamarole with "rules."
We have this damn thing, now go friggin use it or shut up about it.
When you refer to "this damn thing," do you mean the "list of rules?"
-
Rules are important to prevent subjectivity. Subjective judgements inevitably lead to bias, or at the very least, the perception of bias which is just as bad.
-
Or.. rather than discuss it.. Do an IP check and just nuke the fucker.
No discussion needed.
Killin' time.
Not everything needs to be discussed over and over and over again. We have this damn thing, now go friggin use it or shut up about it.
:tup:
-
What I'm saying is if you are going to put in a bunch of rules, go enforce them without much bullshit attached to them. The biggest problem you have psy and this isn't a criticism of you in general either, but when it is time to act you get bogged down in a bunch of meaningless debate. You have gotten much better about this over the last couple of years, I'll give you that.
For now, debating time is over, go act.
If anyone has an objection or complaint, make them do it in private. These rules aren't meant to be a democracy, therefore, there is no need for a lengthy public discussion on every single enforcement of them. There is a time and place for that discussion to be sure, but as an everyday sort of thing, absolutely not.
Because these new rules are going to be nothing more than an ongoing source of drama for a select few forum drama queens who are going to want to undermine them through forcing you to apply them.
-
What I'm saying is if you are going to put in a bunch of rules, go enforce them without much bullshit attached to them. The biggest problem you have psy and this isn't a criticism of you in general either, but when it is time to act you get bogged down in a bunch of meaningless debate. You have gotten much better about this over the last couple of years, I'll give you that.
For now, debating time is over, go act.
If anyone has an objection or complaint, make them do it in private. These rules aren't meant to be a democracy, therefore, there is no need for a lengthy public discussion on every single enforcement of them. There is a time and place for that discussion to be sure, but as an everyday sort of thing, absolutely not.
Because these new rules are going to be nothing more than an ongoing source of drama for a select few forum drama queens who are going to want to undermine them through forcing you to apply them.
Meaningless debate is right. When it's all said and done, far more is being said here than is actually being done.
If you're going to make rules, enforce them and make them count for something. Otherwise, it's all talk and nothing gets accomplished.
-
The rules will be enforced when they're violated. Feel free to use the report function to fill out a report of you feel a violation has occurred and the mods missed it.
-
Psy, are we going to still allow a member to post under another members username, example DannyB II with the "male pic" posting under my user name, with the intent to discredit me.
Actually think you have a point. I've been impersonated. Ursus has been impersonated. I think that unless an impersonation of another poster should be disallowed (except, of course, in Open Free for All), and impersonation of a living person who is not a poster should only be allowed if it is obvious parody (example: Miller Newton or Dr. Fucktard.). I think the standard is this: if a reasonable person could mistake the identity to be that of the parodied, it's a violation.
I would think this behavior would fall under one of these rules.
No one should be allowed to infringe on anothers personal domain, even here. Is there not a way to stop this upon registering, as is the case with other sites, if the user name already exists you can not use it.
Danny B 11's username is not the same. he uses elevens instead of "I"'s. It's close enough to be considered a violation. *however* if Danny B 11 wants, I can add a "parody" label under the username. That would make it permissible.
Well I am so happy that my friends Ursus, Che and Shaggy made time on a Friday night to shed some light on this issue. I find this impostor to be offensive boys, now if y'all know me, this should be ironic because I can be down right nasty when I want to be but I try to keep myself visible and on the up and up.. Meaning I use my name unlike any of you (oh, I know smart people)and you have my phone number.
The Marquess of Queensberry rules fellas fight but fight fair. Shaggy I don't cry, I usually make folks do that. Using someone username is lowdown/ just not fair. This is personal, it is my name.
Psy not to be a picky but I would rather he find another name and stop impersonating me with fallacious remarks. I have had folks ask me if this is me, it has already had a negative impact.
-
The rules will be enforced when they're violated. Feel free to use the report function to fill out a report of you feel a violation has occurred and the mods missed it.
No discussion needed, yep.
Let me if and how I can help and I am on board.
-
I for one believe Psy and Ginger have done well, they really did not want to get this involved but folks who have been here for years think they are entitled to a different set of rules, quanity of time does not equal quality of the time you have had. I have been here almost a year and I am ashamed to say the same person pushing Psy right now to act, has been instigating and causing more problems on more threads then he should. I can only believe he does this out of sense of entitlement and arrogance. Fornits owes you nothing, you are always in debt to fornits.
Stand down old timers, everything changes usually for the better and ease up on the steering wheel. It was always a fantasy anyway that you were driving the vehicle.
-
Or.. rather than discuss it.. Do an IP check and just nuke the fucker.
No discussion needed.
Killin' time.
Not everything needs to be discussed over and over and over again. We have this damn thing, now go friggin use it or shut up about it.
Damn straight. Fuck all the bullshit.
-
As I said, I believe many folks here who have been posting for years will be in for a big surprise. Your actions will no longer be tolerated. I have always wanted fairness, I believe it is coming and not the way many of you think.
Goading members into a fight for the sake of banishment will not be tolerated and using your status or position to ban someone will not be tolerated.
Just remember, "Damn straight. Fuck all the bullshit." is not exactly what the admins had in mind when they went ahead and made these changes, there is a larger vision here.
-
This post was made by DannyB II who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.
The above is an example of Danny's eloquence and brilliance at work. My hat is off to you, all of a smidge, but none the less it's off.
-
As I said, I believe many folks here who have been posting for years will be in for a big surprise. Your actions will no longer be tolerated. I have always wanted fairness, I believe it is coming and not the way many of you think.
Goading members into a fight for the sake of banishment will not be tolerated and using your status or position to ban someone will not be tolerated.
Just remember, "Damn straight. Fuck all the bullshit." is not exactly what the admins had in mind when they went ahead and made these changes, there is a larger vision here.
It's exactly because of posters like you that these new rules came about. You thrive on attempting to attack other posters and deflecting your own issues onto others. I doubt you'll last long under the new rules.
-
The admins of the site have had every opportunity to do something positive to combat the trolls and other nuisances that have infested the threads, and yet seem to spend an inordinate amount of time engaging in a lot of fruitless discussion and "meaningless debate," as Che so aptly put it. Finally we see some action, instead of just talk. Now, if we can stick to the mission we might actually achieve something worth achieving.
-
Just noticed that the wiki (http://http://wiki.fornits.com) seems to have the moderation that most of the people here are really looking for, and a lot of empty discussion pages.
-
The admins of the site have had every opportunity to do something positive to combat the trolls and other nuisances that have infested the threads, and yet seem to spend an inordinate amount of time engaging in a lot of fruitless discussion and "meaningless debate," as Che so aptly put it. Finally we see some action, instead of just talk. Now, if we can stick to the mission we might actually achieve something worth achieving.
I can only hope that your vision of a Web Site never comes to fruition, as PODK's so aptly put the WIKI discussion board is dead, a few forums here are dead due to abusive people overseeing them. Owning a Web Site that allows various views is always a challenge, people have to accept your views are not always the moral righteous ones. People who have folks who disagree with them have to accept that they are not trolls, liars, cheats, misguided fools, troublemakers, derailers, fruitless debators and all the other condescending names "you" can call them. This is actually bordering on attacking, since the person you mentioned and yourself (who so aptly said something) are very fond of some of the said abuses if not all.
-
Just noticed that the wiki (http://http://wiki.fornits.com) seems to have the moderation that most of the people here are really looking for, and a lot of empty discussion pages.
Well, here's to turning over a new leaf. Peace be upon you, Danny.
-
.
-
Just noticed that the wiki (http://http://wiki.fornits.com) seems to have the moderation that most of the people here are really looking for, and a lot of empty discussion pages.
Well, here's to turning over a new leaf. Peace be upon you, Danny.
May you have much peace here, SEKTO.
-
No one is attacking you Danny, I'm just being honest.
-
Robert, stop attacking me, please.
Disagreeing is not attacking. This is attacking (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=31142&p=378510#p378509).
-
Robert, stop attacking me, please.
Disagreeing is not attacking. This is attacking (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=31142&p=378510#p378509).
WoW, I have to agree with you there.
If I may say something, there can be a disagreement about whatever Psy, decides. Can we at least agree to not fight every battle so as to loose the war (so to speak), Ajax. I know you are probably looking at me and thinking I am a hypocrite that may be true but at least I know when to say "uncle".
Lets give Psy, some latitude to be human.
-
.
-
Because these new rules are going to be nothing more than an ongoing source of drama for a select few forum drama queens who are going to want to undermine them through forcing you to apply them.
What Che was writing of in this post, is precisely what is happening now.
-
I say the following without insult intended. I feel the new rules are not being well applied. I saw Ajax was banned, though he is one of the few posters who contributes anything other than troll threads, flame wars, aa spew, etc. and general stupidity. His posts were in the appropriate forum, and, as such, not really misleading. If he's banned, why not John Reuben (aka whooter, it is said) for bringing up CEDU in a non CEDU thread? Why not that poster who threatened to decapitate Ajax?
Perhaps fornits will maintain the status quo of being a troll overrun site, plus unnecessary censorship, now?
-
I say the following without insult intended. I feel the new rules are not being well applied. I saw Ajax was banned, though he is one of the few posters who contributes anything other than troll threads, flame wars, aa spew, etc. and general stupidity. His posts were in the appropriate forum, and, as such, not really misleading. If he's banned, why not John Reuben (aka whooter, it is said) for bringing up CEDU in a non CEDU thread? Why not that poster who threatened to decapitate Ajax?
Read his threads and my justification. They had nothing at all do do with the titles. I'm not going to play favorites. Ajax violated the rules, was warned repeatedly, and refused to stop. It's only a 7 day ban anyway. If I allow him to do what he did I have to allow people to come on here and post penis enlargement information with TTI titles (happened earlier this year). I intend on applying the rules not selectively, or subjectively, but universally and objectively. I'll be sure to warn people before banning as I did with ajax (multiple times):
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=31142#p378507 (http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=31142#p378507)
It's the final decision. Change the title, or get your thread moved to OFFA. Continue after that and get a warning. Continue after that and get banned. I'm very serious about enforcing the rules no matter who is the offender.
If Whooter derailed a thread or Ajax was threatened (after the rules were ratified), let me know via PM or use the report function. However if the posts were created prior to the establishment of these rules I'm not going to do anything as i've already said I won't be enforcing the rules retroactively.
-
I say the following without insult intended. I feel the new rules are not being well applied. I saw Ajax was banned, though he is one of the few posters who contributes anything other than troll threads, flame wars, aa spew, etc. and general stupidity. His posts were in the appropriate forum, and, as such, not really misleading. If he's banned, why not John Reuben (aka whooter, it is said) for bringing up CEDU in a non CEDU thread? Why not that poster who threatened to decapitate Ajax?
Perhaps fornits will maintain the status quo of being a troll overrun site, plus unnecessary censorship, now?
Evil WWASP, just to clear things up my name is not John Reuben. If you are sincere about not intending to insult anyone then I would appreciate it if you addressed me by my user name. I intend to extend the same courtesy to other posters here on fornits myself.
...
-
Whooter. Speculating about a person's identity does not rise to the level of an insult. This (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=31142&p=378510#p378509) set the standard. Anything equal or greater to that.
-
Whooter. Speculating about a person's identity does not rise to the level of an insult. This (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=31142&p=378510#p378509) set the standard. Anything equal or greater to that.
Just for discussion; when does the speculation stop, I think it has been determined that he is not John Rueben.
What is more relevant here is the motive/intention of saying John Rueben, it is not speculation or being inquisitive, I believe it has crossed over into just being insulting. Whenever people are angry or frustrated with Whooter, this name pops up.
I know you know your Web Site Psy, better then I, but my point stands.
Jesus, people seem to think talking about a fathers dead son, is all right. Even if this is not true, just the idea you would use this against someone should be analyzed. It is digusting and most of you here believe it is justified because of Whooters views.
It seems the ones screaming the most around here about the new rules are the ones who have been the most creative with their vitriol to posters. You can dress up your insults within intellectual speeches and inspiring stories but if your agenda is to scandalize someone, well that is attacking.
In my opinion anyway.
Yes, I am a hypocrite here but I admit it. Most of you and you know who you are (the righteous ones) don't.
-
Whooter. Speculating about a person's identity does not rise to the level of an insult. This (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=31142&p=378510#p378509) set the standard. Anything equal or greater to that.
Just for discussion; when does the speculation stop, I think it has been determined that he is not John Rueben.
What is more relevant here is the motive/intention of saying John Rueben, it is not speculation or being inquisitive, I believe it has crossed over into just being insulting. Whenever people are angry or frustrated with Whooter, this name pops up.
I know you know your Web Site Psy, better then I, but my point stands.
Jesus, people seem to think talking about a fathers dead son, is all right. Even if this is not true, just the idea you would use this against someone should be analyzed. It is digusting and most of you here believe it is justified because of Whooters views.
It seems the ones screaming the most around here about the new rules are the ones who have been the most creative with their vitriol to posters. You can dress up your insults within intellectual speeches and inspiring stories but if your agenda is to scandalize someone, well that is attacking.
In my opinion anyway.
Yes, I am a hypocrite here but I admit it. Most of you and you know who you are (the righteous ones) don't.
I might find myself agreeing with this post to an extent. Except it comes from danno, which means I can't.
-
Can I propose that Bennison be placed on the restriction of making only a limited number of posts per day, say three, until he learns to stay on topic and not try and make himself the center of attention on every thread he participates in?
-
Can I propose that Bennison be placed on the restriction of making only a limited number of posts per day, say three, until he learns to stay on topic and not try and make himself the center of attention on every thread he participates in?
Instead of resurrecting a war again SEKTO, which I am not going to engage in, why don't we go to PM's and sort this out. We used to get along if that is not possible why don't we refrain from trying to antagonize one another.
Yes, SEKTO, I said some very cruel things to you in anger, not to patronize you but I do feel some remorse about this.
Peace can happen.
Danny
-
Can I propose that Bennison be placed on the restriction of making only a limited number of posts per day, say three, until he learns to stay on topic and not try and make himself the center of attention on every thread he participates in?
Instead of resurrecting a war again SEKTO, which I am not going to engage in, why don't we go to PM's and sort this out. We used to get along if that is not possible why don't we refrain from trying to antagonize one another.
Yes, SEKTO, I said some very cruel things to you in anger, not to patronize you but I do feel some remorse about this.
Peace can happen.
Danny
No. I will participate in no private communications of any kind with you.
-
Can I propose that Bennison be placed on the restriction of making only a limited number of posts per day, say three, until he learns to stay on topic and not try and make himself the center of attention on every thread he participates in?
Instead of resurrecting a war again SEKTO, which I am not going to engage in, why don't we go to PM's and sort this out. We used to get along if that is not possible why don't we refrain from trying to antagonize one another.
Yes, SEKTO, I said some very cruel things to you in anger, not to patronize you but I do feel some remorse about this.
Peace can happen.
Danny
No. I will participate in no private communications of any kind with you.
Well then you will have to work this out with yourself, could be frustrating, almost like pissing in the wind. This is the problem with folks like yourself SEKTO, you don't know when to move on, you give me so much power, it is sad.
Take care,
Leave me alone SEKTO, your bordering on trolling me for nefarious reasons.
-
Danny before you place your beloved Whooter on the cross, do a periphary glance at his earlier posts. Accusing people of child molestation is only the tip of his disgusting iceberg. And for the record he is John Reuben. He outed himself, my referring to him by his name is by no means a violation of the rules. Talking about a factual situation involving his son's suicide might be insensitive, but it's still based in fact. He's had multiple opportunities to turn over a new leaf and hold an honest conversation, he doesn't want one. Ask yourself why.
-
Danny before you place your beloved Whooter on the cross, do a periphary glance at his earlier posts. Accusing people of child molestation is only the tip of his disgusting iceberg. And for the record he is John Reuben. He outed himself, my referring to him by his name is by no means a violation of the rules. Talking about a factual situation involving his son's suicide might be insensitive, but it's still based in fact. He's had multiple opportunities to turn over a new leaf and hold an honest conversation, he doesn't want one. Ask yourself why.
Listen to yourself, how you talk. Then you talk to me, about crosses and situations, suicides (son), him having multiple opportunities to change and if he did, I would stop, I would not do this and I, I, I.
Robert, you are infested.
This is not about Whooter for me actually, what caught my eye was the references to a fathers dead son I read months ago. It was then brought to the fore front again recently, I was just shocked and disgusted simultaneously that someone here on the site would write about such a thing. I am a father with a son, I could not think this way.
I don't know who you are and I can not judge you, I mean this I can't, don't want too. I will say this though, your quest will never end, your vengeance, it is a cup that will never fill up and nothing you do today or tomorrow will make what he did or is doing right or wrong, better or worse.
Sometimes what is, is what it is.
Move on Robert.
-
You misunderstand. I personally appreciate the fact that Whooter posts here. He highlights for parents seeking information exactly what kind of people are behind this industry. He sets himself up as the poster boy for the entire industry and thereby becomes a lightining rod for it. I honestly think this board would get a little boring without him. I have no reason to seek revenge against him, he's never done anything to me. I'm not even interested in revenge against those at HLA. They were all exposed and got their comeupance. What I am interested in is highlighting the truth behind this industry and the people who support it. My treatment of Whooter is nothing compared to the things he's attempted to do, the things he has done, and the things he would do if he were smart enough to pull it off. You keep mentioning blackmail, he can tell you Whooter did unequivocally attempt to blackmail me. He didn't actually have any information to do so with, but after gladly violatting HIPPA laws he sure thought he did. He attempted to force me to take his side in an argument he was losing. He made it very clear if I didn't he would 'reveal some very damaging information about me.' I advised him HLA didnt know who I was and his threats were meaningless, he still tried his hardest though.
So you tell me Danny, am I treating Whooter any different? My feeling is that I am. I'm not attempting to gain something for myself at his expense, I'm simply forcing him to be accuntable for his own actions. Where in your mind is the problem?
-
Look Bruce, you and "Controlling Troll" should form a club or something. You have both gone over the edge. You are chasing a ghost in your own mind. I am not going to debate you on information you fabricated in your head or "screen shots" of PM's that "Controlling Troll" photo shopped. Its nutty stuff. No one really cares, I dont.
I agree with Danny that its not right to obsess over this guy and his son who committed suicide. You guys had your fun of outing me and trying to make people think you knew who I was, but its over. Try to have some decency, these attacks on him really make you look bad.
When and If you guys are interested in the issues of the TTI then I will be willing to respond in kind.
...
-
I say the following without insult intended. I feel the new rules are not being well applied. I saw Ajax was banned, though he is one of the few posters who contributes anything other than troll threads, flame wars, aa spew, etc. and general stupidity. His posts were in the appropriate forum, and, as such, not really misleading. If he's banned, why not John Reuben (aka whooter, it is said) for bringing up CEDU in a non CEDU thread? Why not that poster who threatened to decapitate Ajax?
Perhaps fornits will maintain the status quo of being a troll overrun site, plus unnecessary censorship, now?
Evil WWASP, just to clear things up my name is not John Reuben. If you are sincere about not intending to insult anyone then I would appreciate it if you addressed me by my user name. I intend to extend the same courtesy to other posters here on fornits myself.
...
Evil WWASP, please address this poster by his username. Pick one from the list of usernames he has used on Fornits that you like and use that one. You can choose from these, but there are plenty more if you don't find one you like.
RobertBruce.
RobertBruce .
RobertBruces
BEN WAjowski
Fred Bicep
Peg Sympson
John C.
Mike D.
Ursas
Slander Programs
John B.
Jim Bunson
Dot MacKinnon
Jammie Sympson (eventually it will be the whole “Sympson Family” I suppose)
Mark Rosen
Roger Glasdco
John Randall
Pete DeGroot
Mark DeGroot (I guess the “DeGroot Family” too)
Warner Stubbin
Steve Backlan
James Driding
Rob Jamison
Boarding Schools Pros and Cons (he’s the “con”)
Bess H.
Iao;nori
Jim Baylor
Sid Michaels
Fred Thompson
John McCain
Sarah Palin
Mitt Romney
Al Gore
Dick Cheney
Mike Wilson
Rudy Bentz (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=28962&start=15#p348150)
Heal Online (http://http://www.fornits.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=28989&p=348683#p348690)
Margaret Wilson
Revenge Fantasy Girlz
Diddle
Robert Hess
Ajax13.
-
I agree with Danny that its not right to obsess over this guy and his son who committed suicide.
It's not obsession....more like we're just astounded that someone would have the gall to make money off of a program that not only didn't help this poor kid (Reuben's son), but I would argue, knowing what we all do about Aspen, that it greatly contributed to his despair. Honestly, that astounds me. I can't describe it any other way. The disgusting nature of turning your own child's death into a business, even to the extent of using his obit to market said business.....sorry, I can't fathom it.
You guys had your fun of outing me and trying to make people think you knew who I was, but its over.
Make up your mind.....did "we" "out" you or not?
Try to have some decency, these attacks on him really make you look bad.
A father turning his child's death into a money making machine really makes that parent look bad.
When and If you guys are interested in the issues of the TTI then I will be willing to respond in kind.
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
-
I agree with Danny that its not right to obsess over this guy and his son who committed suicide.
It's not obsession....more like we're just astounded that someone would have the gall to make money off of a program that not only didn't help this poor kid (Reuben's son), but I would argue, knowing what we all do about Aspen, that it greatly contributed to his despair. Honestly, that astounds me. I can't describe it any other way. The disgusting nature of turning your own child's death into a business, even to the extent of using his obit to market said business.....sorry, I can't fathom it.
I believe he had two children that attended programs. One went to ASR and the other to HLA. One of the children committed suicide years after graduation. It appears that the school helped this child if you read his BIO. If you are trying to relate the boys suicide to the school I am not sure how this can be done. The child may have had issues prior to attending (which is probable) and the school help him coup with these... he graduated and was successful and then committed suicide years later. There could have been many contributing factors.. mother dying, girlfriend, depression, depression medication etc.
Make up your mind.....did "we" "out" you or not?
I have been outed several times as several different people... but to answer your question.. no none of them were me.
A father turning his child's death into a money making machine really makes that parent look bad.
This is very common to try to help other children when you have lost your own. He has built a non profit to assist families who cannot afford to send their children to get help. How can that possibly make someone look bad.
...
-
Just as a side note...STICC has taken in hundreds of thousands of dollars to "help kids" but do you know how many they actually "helped"? Three. Three kids in six years of operation, yet they keep raking in the donations. Smells like a fraud to me.
-
I believe he had two children that attended programs. One went to ASR and the other to HLA. One of the children committed suicide years after graduation. It appears that the school helped this child if you read his BIO. If you are trying to relate the boys suicide to the school I am not sure how this can be done. The child may have had issues prior to attending (which is probable) and the school help him coup with these... he graduated and was successful and then committed suicide years later. There could have been many contributing factors.. mother dying, girlfriend, depression, depression medication etc.
Yeah, you've said that. A lot. I promise I've heard you each and every time.
A father turning his child's death into a money making machine really makes that parent look bad.
This is very common to try to help other children when you have lost your own. He has built a non profit to assist families who cannot afford to send their children to get help. How can that possibly make someone look bad.
Because it's not "helping". Aspen facilities have proven to be abusive and they have even admitted in court that they don't provide any treatment. Look....IMO, at the very least HLA/ASR didn't help and at worst, it exacerbated any problems the kid may have had, given the abusive methods those two particular places use(d) and seeing how HLA was shut down amidst abuse accusations and lawsuits, just like Straight. They get caught, shut down and then re-open under a different name, using the same sick fucking "therapeutic" methods. You obviously don't see a problem with "this guy" making his living (this time) on the back of his dead child. I do. It utterly disgusts me.
And I'd love to see how truly "not for profit" this referral business is.
-
Because it's not "helping". Aspen facilities have proven to be abusive and they have even admitted in court that they don't provide any treatment. Look....IMO, at the very least HLA/ASR didn't help and at worst, it exacerbated any problems the kid may have had, given the abusive methods those two particular places use(d) and seeing how HLA was shut down amidst abuse accusations and lawsuits, just like Straight. They get caught, shut down and then re-open under a different name, using the same sick fucking "therapeutic" methods. You obviously don't see a problem with "this guy" making his living (this time) on the back of his dead child. I do. It utterly disgusts me.
Teachers and public schools have been proven to be abusive also.
IMO, Anne, both boys were helped by their stay at the programs they attended. If we could establish that the kids had no problems prior to entering ASR/HLA and then they killed themselves right after they got out then yes I could see your point. But both kids went on to be successful after graduation.
Many people who have witnessed a loved one being helped want to help other people who are less fortunate get help for their families. It is very common.
And I'd love to see how truly "not for profit" this referral business is.
There are laws which govern non profits. I belief, also, that the books are open to the public for non profit businesses. So we could find out if we wanted to.
...
-
Just as a side note...STICC has taken in hundreds of thousands of dollars to "help kids" but do you know how many they actually "helped"? Three. Three kids in six years of operation, yet they keep raking in the donations. Smells like a fraud to me.
Ahh.....I was just wondering about that.
-
Laws
1. If a thread already exists on a topic, use it, rather than start a new one.
2. Don't derail threads by changing the topic. Start a new topic.
3. No outing of home addresses or phone numbers without a person's consent. This includes linking to such information.
4. Post your topics in the appropriate forum, with an appropriate name.
5. Multiple usernames are disallowed if you use them for sockpuppetry (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sockpuppet_(Internet)). Sockpuppets will be outed.
6. No attacking other posters with insults (this includes driving parents off). You can make your point with civility. Responding to an insult with an insult is not a justification.
7. Impersonation of another poster or living person is not allowed, unless it is obvious parody. The standard is this: if a stupid person could mistake the identity to be that of the parodied, it's a violation. You may either agree to have such an account labeled as "parody" or have it deleted.
8. One unmoderated forum will remain (open free for all) however it will be opt-in, similar to the drama box.
Bill of Rights
1. You have the right to your opinion, however unpopular. You will not be disciplined for your opinions so long their expression stays within the rules of the forum.
2. You have a right to an impartial moderation. If you get into an argument with a moderator, that moderator may not punish you and must rely on the judgement of another moderator.
3. You have the right to an appeal. If you feel you were treated unjustly by one of our moderators you have the right to request an appeal. A panel of moderators will go over your case and make a decision affirming or overturning the decision. Affirmations must be unanimous.
4. You have a right to be informed of all correspondance concerning your case.
5. You have the right to privacy. You have the right to create a second or third account for the purposes of retaining anonymity.
Penalties:
You will be informed if you violate a rule. If repeated violation occur, your account may be disabled temporarily. After your account is enabled again, you will be considered on a probationary period. If further violations occur, you may be banned permanently.
This constitution only applies to postings from this point on.
I'll be editing this rough draft as we come up with ideas. I welcome feedback. Just so we're clear, once these rules are finalized, they'll apply to everybody regardless of their opinions or group affiliation.
:bump:
-
Teachers and public schools have been proven to be abusive also.
So? You say this a lot too. We hear you each time. The abuse there isn't systemic, as it is in LGAT using programs such as HLA and ASR.
IMO, Anne, both boys were helped by their stay at the programs they attended. If we could establish that the kids had no problems prior to entering ASR/HLA and then they killed themselves right after they got out then yes I could see your point. But both kids went on to be successful after graduation.
Many people who have witnessed a loved one being helped want to help other people who are less fortunate get help for their families. It is very common.
Problem is, as I said...HLA was shut down amidst abuse and lawsuits and ASR has no place "treating" anyone who truly has problems since they admit that they provide no treatment at all.
Again, you don't have a problem with someone making their living off the death of their child, even going to extent of using the obituary for the poor kid to do it.....I do.
-
So? You say this a lot too. We hear you each time. The abuse there isn't systemic, as it is in LGAT using programs such as HLA and ASR.
We hear each other each time. It is repeated because we both disagree with each other and reiterate our points for clarification purposes. I dont think abuse in programs are systemic. I know that you do.
Problem is, as I said...HLA was shut down amidst abuse and lawsuits and ASR has no place "treating" anyone who truly has problems since they admit that they provide no treatment at all.
I have never read where ASR stated they dont provide treatment. If you read the argument the lawyer stated that a specific school did not provide treatment to a specific child. At some schools (ASR was one) the parents had an option of having their child see and independent therapist. If the parents opted out of this then Aspen would not be providing this child treatment in this area.
But we can go back and forth with the wording. But getting back to the boys suicide, in my opinion it is very unlikely that his time at ASR had anything to do with this. It occurred years after-wards and may have been caused by many other variables. I think many like yourself would like to tie it back to the school but I don't see how that could be done. The boys mother was dying at the time, I believe, I am sure this could be a bigger factor.
Again, you don't have a problem with someone making their living off the death of their child, even going to extent of using the obituary for the poor kid to do it.....I do.
He started a non profit, Anne. Some people run for cancer if their mother or loved one dies and help raise money for treatment. Some start non profits to raise money to get others help when they cant afford it. You are reading things into this person motive in my opinion.
...
-
Find that cat yet?
-
Look Bruce, you and "Controlling Troll" should form a club or something. You have both gone over the edge. You are chasing a ghost in your own mind. I am not going to debate you on information you fabricated in your head or "screen shots" of PM's that "Controlling Troll" photo shopped. Its nutty stuff. No one really cares, I dont.
I agree with Danny that its not right to obsess over this guy and his son who committed suicide. You guys had your fun of outing me and trying to make people think you knew who I was, but its over. Try to have some decency, these attacks on him really make you look bad.
When and If you guys are interested in the issues of the TTI then I will be willing to respond in kind.
...
Again Whooter, given your insider perspective you would be a good source for conversation, but you're too set on disruption over dialoug. You constantly admonish others to, 'contribute something', yet what do you ever actually contribute? You refuse to stand behind your own comments, you disrupt and troll the forums by posting under various guises and attempting to attack posters who disagree with you from the shadows. When you can't find anyone to play with you simply troll yourself. You refuse to answer questions about your own positions and make ridiculus demands of others before you'll acknowledge the most basic of truths. There are plenty of people here like you who are here for no other reason other than to play games, but at least they're honest about it. Why aren't you?
-
We hear each other each time. It is repeated because we both disagree with each other and reiterate our points for clarification purposes. I dont think abuse in programs are systemic. I know that you do.
Then why do the same people with the same (proven) abusive treatment plans crop up again and again? Why are these places being shut down? Why is lawsuit after lawsuit being filed against these places?
-
So? You say this a lot too. We hear you each time. The abuse there isn't systemic, as it is in LGAT using programs such as HLA and ASR.
We hear each other each time. It is repeated because we both disagree with each other and reiterate our points for clarification purposes. I dont think abuse in programs are systemic. I know that you do.
Problem is, as I said...HLA was shut down amidst abuse and lawsuits and ASR has no place "treating" anyone who truly has problems since they admit that they provide no treatment at all.
I have never read where ASR stated they dont provide treatment. If you read the argument the lawyer stated that a specific school did not provide treatment to a specific child. At some schools (ASR was one) the parents had an option of having their child see and independent therapist. If the parents opted out of this then Aspen would not be providing this child treatment in this area.
But we can go back and forth with the wording. But getting back to the boys suicide, in my opinion it is very unlikely that his time at ASR had anything to do with this. It occurred years after-wards and may have been caused by many other variables. I think many like yourself would like to tie it back to the school but I don't see how that could be done. The boys mother was dying at the time, I believe, I am sure this could be a bigger factor.
Again, you don't have a problem with someone making their living off the death of their child, even going to extent of using the obituary for the poor kid to do it.....I do.
He started a non profit, Anne. Some people run for cancer if their mother or loved one dies and help raise money for treatment. Some start non profits to raise money to get others help when they cant afford it. You are reading things into this person motive in my opinion.
...
All that has to be proved to show John D Reuben mudered his son is that did the following to him:
have him kidnapped (http://www.nospank.net/labi.htm (http://www.nospank.net/labi.htm)) held prisoner,
held prisoner (http://www.cafety.org/privately-funded- ... april-2005 (http://www.cafety.org/privately-funded-programs/169-corporate-child-abuse-persists-wwasps-april-2005))
held prisoner withou without due process (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/FrontPage.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/FrontPage.html))
held prisoner incommunicado (http://www.insidecostarica.com/specialr ... h_love.htm (http://www.insidecostarica.com/specialreports/too_tough_love.htm))
and/ or Mike Reuben was abused post imprisonment (google abuse, cult, torture, academy swift river and/or mount bachelor academy, aspen education group, Synanon, CEDU and you'll find he was, and see the patterns...)
The level of torture and abuse hinted at above causes brain damage, social marginilization and alientation, and despair..the sort of thing that causes youth (Mike was barely olf enough to drink) to kill themselves. An enterprizing prosecutor would make a case against John D. Reuben. Maybe Max could be contacted for help?
-
All that has to be proved to show John D Reuben mudered his son is that did the following to him:
have him kidnapped (http://www.nospank.net/labi.htm (http://www.nospank.net/labi.htm)) held prisoner,
Kidnapping would be a federal offense and would be on record already so we can take this off the table.
held prisoner (http://www.cafety.org/privately-funded- (http://www.cafety.org/privately-funded-) ... april-2005)
Again with the helicopters and search lights.. we need more drama. Throw in the word Gulag and you might get someones attention. No prison no prisoner. Next…..
held prisoner withou without due process (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/FrontPage.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/FrontPage.html))
Oh, brother, due process again. Can you provide a link to this? You link doesn’t address this law in Massachusetts or any other state. Sorry doesn’t stick… next.
held prisoner incommunicado (http://www.insidecostarica.com/specialr (http://www.insidecostarica.com/specialr) ... h_love.htm)
Again with the prisoner thing? Incommunicado? Whoops you link goes to Cost Rica. They have phones down there. You should have goggled first.
was abused post imprisonment (google abuse, cult, torture, academy swift river and/or mount bachelor academy, aspen education group and you'll find he was)
Oh no more abuse words. His son was fine and did very well at ASR. You lack any facts at all. You are linking to various sites that don’t apply.
The level of torture and abuse hinted at above causes brain damage, social marginilization and alientation, and despair..the sort of thing that causes kids to kill themselves. An enterprizing prosecutor would make a case against John D. Reuben. Maybe Max could be contacted for help?
Oh no!! torture and brain damage from going to a boarding school!! We should call 20/20 to do a news story! They would be catapulted to the top of the ratings if only you had something credible..
Sorry EvilWWASP. But the links added some credibility until people clicked on them. I liked the drama touch. Intersperse the words Gulag, prison, torture and kidnapping more it will get the parents attention and add credibility.
...
-
So then Whooter, how do you feel about the use of escorts to "deliver" kids to theraputic boarding schools. Is this legal?
-
So? You say this a lot too. We hear you each time. The abuse there isn't systemic, as it is in LGAT using programs such as HLA and ASR.
We hear each other each time. It is repeated because we both disagree with each other and reiterate our points for clarification purposes. I dont think abuse in programs are systemic. I know that you do.
Problem is, as I said...HLA was shut down amidst abuse and lawsuits and ASR has no place "treating" anyone who truly has problems since they admit that they provide no treatment at all.
I have never read where ASR stated they dont provide treatment. If you read the argument the lawyer stated that a specific school did not provide treatment to a specific child. At some schools (ASR was one) the parents had an option of having their child see and independent therapist. If the parents opted out of this then Aspen would not be providing this child treatment in this area.
But we can go back and forth with the wording. But getting back to the boys suicide, in my opinion it is very unlikely that his time at ASR had anything to do with this. It occurred years after-wards and may have been caused by many other variables. I think many like yourself would like to tie it back to the school but I don't see how that could be done. The boys mother was dying at the time, I believe, I am sure this could be a bigger factor.
Again, you don't have a problem with someone making their living off the death of their child, even going to extent of using the obituary for the poor kid to do it.....I do.
He started a non profit, Anne. Some people run for cancer if their mother or loved one dies and help raise money for treatment. Some start non profits to raise money to get others help when they cant afford it. You are reading things into this person motive in my opinion.
...
All that has to be proved to show John D Reuben mudered his son is that did the following to him:
have him kidnapped (http://www.nospank.net/labi.htm (http://www.nospank.net/labi.htm)) held prisoner,
held prisoner (http://www.cafety.org/privately-funded- ... april-2005 (http://www.cafety.org/privately-funded-programs/169-corporate-child-abuse-persists-wwasps-april-2005))
held prisoner withou without due process (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/FrontPage.html (http://www.teenadvocatesusa.org/FrontPage.html))
held prisoner incommunicado (http://www.insidecostarica.com/specialr ... h_love.htm (http://www.insidecostarica.com/specialreports/too_tough_love.htm))
and/ or Mike Reuben was abused post imprisonment (google abuse, cult, torture, academy swift river and/or mount bachelor academy, aspen education group, Synanon, CEDU and you'll find he was, and see the patterns...)
The level of torture and abuse hinted at above causes brain damage, social marginilization and alientation, and despair..the sort of thing that causes youth (Mike was barely olf enough to drink) to kill themselves. An enterprizing prosecutor would make a case against John D. Reuben. Maybe Max could be contacted for help?
You have absolutely no proof at all that this happened to Mike nor are you educated in the forensics of anatomy, psychiatry nor anything else. These are just bold statements being hurled around, no problem I do it myself and I am reminded repetitively by y'all they are anecdotal.
-
We know that he was incarcerated in a program, and we know that same program did nothing to help him with his problems. So what's the question?
-
We know that he was incarcerated in a program, and we know that same program did nothing to help him with his problems. So what's the question?
Oh, Jeesh, boy that and a quarter still won't get you a cup of coffee. Robert your right, there is no question because you have no point.
Incarcerated, "no" and the program helping ?????? probably not
-
What's confusing you on this point Danny?
-
Hey Danny is Whooter, AKA Computer Ed, On My Space,?? :jawdrop:
-
As one of the "old timers" here, I think Fornits should abolish this cockamamie constitution forthright! Where was the vote? I've contributed $$ to Fornits, albeit not a lot, but whatever... I can see a couple years from now there might only be 10 different posters here. How many is it now? 30? How many people in the world now post at Fornits? What works well Enter at own risk. You might as well call it Psynits... :roflmao: or something like that...
Something else... I thought this was Ginger and Kathy's baby. Is the spirit of Fornits lost forever? :eek:
-
As one of the "old timers" here, I think Fornits should abolish this cockamamie constitution forthright! Where was the vote? I've contributed $$ to Fornits, albeit not a lot, but whatever... I can see a couple years from now there might only be 10 different posters here. How many is it now? 30? How many people in the world now post at Fornits? What works well Enter at own risk. You might as well call it Psynits... :roflmao: or something like that...
Something else... I thought this was Ginger and Kathy's baby. Is the spirit of Fornits lost forever? :eek:
Is that including Babbletits and Sharon's other Screen Names ?
-
ifferent posters here. How many is it now? 30? How many people in the world now post at Fornits? What works well Enter at own risk. You might as well call it Psynits...
Seems like it's working fine to me. There's an unmoderated section and a moderated section, like there's always been. the only difference is the ratios.
Ginger is still here (albeit busy). Kathy left for other projects long ago. Hey. If you're interested in volunteering, we'd welcome your help. Otherwise, STFU. Managing a website isn't an easy job (as you well know) and we're doing the best we can.
-
Managing a website isn't an easy job (as you well know) and we're doing the best we can.
Thank you, it's not a job I'm jealous of.
-
Psy says: " If you're interested in volunteering, we'd welcome your help. Otherwise, STFU."
::) Wow, that is such powerful and insightful thinking coming from such a "responsible" person. Congratulations. Now, if more people shared this attitude, I think Fornits will be just fine, no matter how hard it is to manage. Volunteer or else! The only issue I see now is that you claim this forum was OFFA. Which is it? If people are supposed to STFU, how can they use the forum? READ ONLY? LOL Yer a funny dude. So, if I weren't-- let's say-- raising a large family in life, like you who probably still lives either alone or with his mom, I might have more time to devote to such a project as a website, but that aint happenin now, now is it?
-
Psy says: " If you're interested in volunteering, we'd welcome your help. Otherwise, STFU."
::) Wow, that is such powerful and insightful thinking coming from such a "responsible" person. Congratulations. Now, if more people shared this attitude, I think Fornits will be just fine, no matter how hard it is to manage. Volunteer or else! The only issue I see now is that you claim this forum was OFFA. Which is it? If people are supposed to STFU, how can they use the forum? READ ONLY? LOL Yer a funny dude. So, if I weren't-- let's say-- raising a large family in life, like you who probably still lives either alone or with his mom, I might have more time to devote to such a project as a website, but that aint happenin now, now is it?
I share his attitude, stfu.
-
What's confusing you on this point Danny?
your integrity.
-
It's never been anything but above reproach. Why do you ask?