Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => World Wide Association of Specialty Programs and Schools (WWASPS) => Topic started by: Anonymous on July 20, 2005, 10:05:00 AM
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I am a parent of a 15 year old son named Tony. Up to recently he was a student at the Academy At Dundee Ranch in Orotina, Costa Rica. He is now in Tranquilty Bay in Jamaica. I am going to endeavor to keep this brief, however, I am not sure that I can do that. There is nothing more important to me then the health, happiness, and well being of my child, and I truly want you to understand my feelings and my position.
I will start by telling you some of what I was dealing with as a single parent of a 14 year old prior to making the heart wrenching decision to place him in a "program." At 14 years old he was drinking, smoking pot, dropping acid and huffing freon and other lethal chemicals on a regular basis. He was expelled from school for fighting and was getting ready to go back to the 7th grade for the 4th time when the next school year started. He was already in "alternative" education when he was expelled. I was at the end of my options. I had been researching programs and such for a year prior to his placement at Dundee. In the beginning I did not know how I could possible afford to do this. I looked at "boot camps" and decided against them. They are dangerous and why would I pay someone 15 thousand dollars to yell at my kid for 3 months. I had yelled at him for 3 years for nothing and accomplished nothing. Short term program.. Short term results. I had a kid who I loved dearly, who was headed for either the morgue or the Juvenile Justice System and he didn?t seem to care which one it was. I had to do something and I finally came to the realization that I could not afford to do it immediately.
When I came upon WWASP I looked at their program outline and finally started to see some hope. Of course I did my research and talked to other parents. David, my initial contact at Teen Help was the best. He was very up front with me and my questions of "how long and how much." As much as we would like to believe that our children are extensions of ourselves, the truth of the matter is that they are unique aspects of the creative energy with the god given free will that we all possess. All kids are different. Some will take longer to "get it" and there are no guarantees. I choose WWASP and Dundee Ranch because of their commitment to family healing and the outlines of the seminars offered to the kids and to the parents.
I fully and completely reviewed the program rules and disciplinary policies before I voluntarily signed the guardianship of my child to the staff at Dundee Ranch. As a 20 year veteran of the Correctional System I understood more then most parents the need for "restraint" clauses. I also knew that a program where adherence to rules is stressed is right where my child needed to be. Like I said, I have worked with convicts for many years. In my educated opinion, the main reason that someone winds up in prison is because they just do not see the correlation between their choices and their consequences. Everything that happens to them is someone else?s fault. That is the attitude that makes a convict and it is really scarey to have a 14 year old child with that attitude. And knowing the system the way I do, I knew that if my child wound up in the Juvenile Justice System I would have no control over what happened to him. He would be subject to rape and assault by the other inmates and as much as the staff may try to do the right thing, the facts are, they are understaffed and undertrained. There would be no treatment there for him. In the system we refer to Juvie as "Gladiator School." All they teach them is how to grow up to be real convicts. I could not, would not, or will not, allow that to happen if it is in my power to prevent it. Until this child is 18 years old I am legally, morally, and financially responsible for his actions. And I will always be emotionally involved in his outcomes. Even tho the local School Board, School Principals and Police want to shave the kid?s head and look for the 666, I know my son. Underneath all that anger and belligerence is a good kid. I will do whatever I have to, to help him find his own light again.
In the year that my son was at Dundee Ranch I saw some wonderful changes in him. We are actually able to communicate again. I have done my parent seminars and he had done his. We are both busy working our own program and when we had the opportunity in our first Parent Child Seminar to practice our new communication skills it was truly an AWESOME experience. Altho it had been seven months since I had seen him, it had been four years since I had seen my child show his authentic self. I knew then and there that all the sacrifices I had made to place him at Dundee were worth it. Words can not even express the joy that I felt. He has made the choice to take the long road in his program. But that is his choice and I cannot make it for him. He is well aware of the fact that he could make his level three in a couple of months and we could have bimonthly phone calls. I have also had to take the firm line that until he make a level that he can have off grounds visits I will not bear the expense of the travel to go see him. These are his choices. I can only hope and pray he will get moving soon, cause I miss him so much.
Lets talk about observation placement or "OP" for a minute. I know a lot of people have a problem with this. Here is my experience of OP. In the correctional system we have Special Housing, commonly referred to as the "hole." Most inmates never go there. Of those that do, most only go once. Solitary confinement is not a lot of fun. But there is a need for it. If you go there, it is for a reason. As a correctional officer, I do not just snatch someone up for no reason and send them to special housing. Their actions create that event. If you don?t like it there, you will stop doing whatever the obnoxious behavior was that got you their in the first place. It is all about choices and consequences. Tony decided that in his first few months at Dundee that he would go to OP. That was his choice dictated by his behavior. He was well aware of the rules and the consequences of his actions. Of course I hated it for him, but I could no more get inside his head and make these choices for him then I could keep him from cussing out his teachers and the local cops when he was home. But here is the rub. One day when my family rep was not available for our weekly phone call, another staff member took my call in his place. This incredible human being is one of the guys who supervises OP. In the 45 minutes that we spoke , I learned so much about what was going on inside my kid?s head. Even tho my child was kneeling on a tile floor with his nose on the wall, there was someone sitting behind him who really cared about him, talking to him, and letting him talk. Someone who saw him for who he really was and didn?t just write him off because of his actions. Someone who was willing to look deeper then the surface. And when I was at the school for the second time at our first Parent/Child Seminar, my son would not let me leave before I met this person because he was "so cool." And when Tony finally found him, he did not greet him with a handshake, he greeted him with a big hug. I also got a big hug too! Was he tramatized by this? I seriously doubt it as he was so excited to show me the OP room and his "pose" while we were doing the school tour. He was laughing and joking about the time he spent there in the early stages of his program.
Altho I could go on for a few more pages about the Blessing that Dundee Ranch and WWASP have been for me and my son, I did promise to try to be brief. I am firmly committed to my son, WWASP, and the owner and staff at Dundee Ranch. The fiasco that preceded Dundee?s temporary closing should not have happened. I have faith in a higher being that the wrongs will be righted, and I am doing my level best not to focus on the financial hardship that this has created for me. I have been to Costa Rica twice. The country is very beautiful and the people are warm and friendly. I do not blame the whole of the Costa Rican government for the actions of a few of their representatives. One of the reasons why I decided to send Tony to Dundee Ranch was because I admire the politics of the Costa Rican Government and have wanted to visit there. I think that a large part of this current situation is because the Costa Rican people do not have the same problems with their kids that we face here in the States. Their frame of reference does not allow for an understanding of why the program operates the way it does or why I felt like I had to send my child away to save his life. If anyone believes that I did this on a whim or to just get rid of my problem they don?t know me very well. And anyone who believes that I have somehow been brainwashed really doesn?t know me very well.
With Love and Light,
Kathleen A. Crozier
these parents are completely insane. :eek:
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What I find most interesting is her programized interpretation of OP. Choice and consequences. Yeah... we heard a LOT of that at the program.
Why doesn't she accept responsibility for her son then? Raising her son badly was her choice and his behavior is now the consequence. You notice in EVERY SINGLE parent support statement and letter there is absolutely no mention of any parental problems. EVEYRTHING is the childs fault. That is how it works at WWASP. You take the blame or you will never leave.
The parents are paying a shitload of money to break their teen down to the point they will say what they aparently want to hear- "it's all my fault, and I am sorry.'
TOO BAD parents, because it's not that simple. Stop being such hypocrites and take responsibility for YOUR actions.
Why do almost all WWASP prisoners come from broken families? Is this the fault of the child? NO!
These programs are sick and the parent who wrote the letter quoted above is sadistic. Since she is a jail guard, I'm sure she loves WWASP. It is sickening. I can't believe so many parents are willing to send hteir kid away to be abused and rewired. You think this helps in the long-term? Or are you so selfish all you want to do is allay your fears until we are adults and you 'technically' don't have to worry about us anymore?! FUCK YOU
:flame: :flame: :flame:
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Where the hell did you get this? I suddenly want to kill that parent.
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http://www.prisonexp.org/links.htm (http://www.prisonexp.org/links.htm)
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard was not what I meant.
---Richard Nixon
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If your son is doing/did so well in Costa Rica, then why in the world did you pull him from there and send him to Hell, I mean Tranquility Bay?
Am I the only one noting an oxymoron here? Or maybe just a moron?
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That lady seems to be absolutely thrilled by the idea that her son will be treated as if he's a convinced criminal (and worse). This is absolutely sick.
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On 2005-07-20 09:22:00, 4peace wrote:
"If your son is doing/did so well in Costa Rica, then why in the world did you pull him from there and send him to Hell, I mean Tranquility Bay?
Am I the only one noting an oxymoron here? Or maybe just a moron?"
Cause the Costa Rican authorities shut down Dundee Ranch.sunday school: A prison in which children do penance for the evil conscience of their parents.
--H. L. Mencken, American publisher
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Actually, the Costa Rican government didn't "shut down" Dundee Ranch. They came in to check it out (after some complaints from people like Buzzkill and PURE (Sue Scheff's outfit) and all hell broke loose. The damage the kids did to the property required it be closed down. It is now re-opened.
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Sounds like they need to riot again. From what I've seen, riots are the only thing that brings press/attention to these facilities. We need more riots at these places.
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Wasn't it Su Flowers who got the ball rolling in Costa Rica when she went down there trying to get her daughter out?
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On 2005-07-20 13:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Actually, the Costa Rican government didn't "shut down" Dundee Ranch. They came in to check it out (after some complaints from people like Buzzkill and PURE (Sue Scheff's outfit) and all hell broke loose. The damage the kids did to the property required it be closed down. It is now re-opened. "
And don't forget that they arrested Narvin.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=du ... vin+arrest (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dundee+narvin+arrest)
Religions are all alike; founded upon fables and mythologies.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;
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On 2005-07-20 13:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Actually, the Costa Rican government didn't "shut down" Dundee Ranch. They came in to check it out (after some complaints from people like Buzzkill and PURE (Sue Scheff's outfit) and all hell broke loose. The damage the kids did to the property required it be closed down. It is now re-opened. "
How many kids were sent to another WWASPS program after Dundee shut down?
Also, did Sue Scheff place any DRA kids in one of the programs she refers to?
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On 2005-07-20 14:26:00, Antigen wrote:
"
On 2005-07-20 13:55:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Actually, the Costa Rican government didn't "shut down" Dundee Ranch. They came in to check it out (after some complaints from people like Buzzkill and PURE (Sue Scheff's outfit) and all hell broke loose. The damage the kids did to the property required it be closed down. It is now re-opened. "
And don't forget that they arrested Narvin.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=du ... vin+arrest (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dundee+narvin+arrest)
Religions are all alike; founded upon fables and mythologies.
--Thomas Jefferson, U.S. President, author, scientist, architect, educator, and diplomat
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed Chicklett `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;"
Now that was funny ... Narvin Litchfield in the BIG HOUSE ...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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I heard he was detained for questioning. I thought that was different than being arrested.
Maybe not in Costa Rica. :wink:
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Well who told you that? Cause all the papers that covered the story said he was arrested, booked, held overnight. At the same time, authorities back home actually banned him from his own campus at Carolina Springs due to abuse allegations.
How do you manage to keep yourself convinced that these people are the martyrs in this story? Don't they get the results they intend through their actions?The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
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From the original post the mother describes her son as a boy "who was headed for either the morgue or the Juvenile Justice System." What a fancy way of saying deadorinjail!
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On 2005-07-20 14:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Wasn't it Su Flowers who got the ball rolling in Costa Rica when she went down there trying to get her daughter out?
"
Yes, it was.
It was amazing.
I wish I knew how she is doing and what she is up to these days.
And Narvin was arrested. How it turned out in the end, I don't know. I guess they either dropped the chanrges or pled him out.
Last I heard it was still an open case, but that has been long ago now - and as he is re-opening Dundee it appears they came to some kind of understanding.
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wwasp programs are horrible as a former prisoner im surprised their still open
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I wonder how long it takes most parents, after their child returns home 20-40 pounds heavier (at least at Cross Creek we did) and beaming with the "I'm a good kid now!" gloss.... what's the "waiting period" before reality sets in for parent and child?
Did anyone here have a parent who bought into the program-jargon and marketing extravaganzas, and still just doesn't 'see what the problem was'?
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It's been over 10 years since I left CCM, and my mother is still in denial. She refuses to listen to me, period, even though I continue to say that I have absolutely no reason to lie now. Even the non-refutable points, like the fact that we were denied unsupervised phone calls and denied contact for months, just don't bother her at all. I wasn't on drugs and had no real problems other than "disrespect to parents", so it wasn't like I really needed treatment.
It must suck to realize you spent a fortune on a steaming pile of bullshit. Or a half-baked pizza. :)
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Yeah it's still a point of contention between me and my parents too. I've been out five years now, and just started talking to them again a few months ago. I am already starting to not answer the phone and return phone calls. Having them in my life makes me sad. I wish it made me happy, but I feel pressured and sick with them even thinking about me. I want to move or something.
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Yeah it's still a point of contention between me and my parents too. I've been out five years now, and just started talking to them again a few months ago. I am already starting to not answer the phone and return phone calls. Having them in my life makes me sad. I wish it made me happy, but I feel pressured and sick with them even thinking about me. I want to move or something.
Well, as I posted over on the Thayer thread (before I found this one), my parents AREN'T a part of my life. I graduated the gulag, went to community college and transferred to NJ's Kean University on the basis of that (on their nickel since I did graduate the program), got a real job and told them to get the hell out of my life. I unloaded everything on them, and told them I'd get a restraining order if I needed to (don't know if I really could, but you should have seen their faces!), and everything else. They weren't at my wedding, and haven't seen my son, though they keep trying to reconcile. Never happen-Hell hasn't frozen over yet!
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Yeah it's still a point of contention between me and my parents too. I've been out five years now, and just started talking to them again a few months ago. I am already starting to not answer the phone and return phone calls. Having them in my life makes me sad. I wish it made me happy, but I feel pressured and sick with them even thinking about me. I want to move or something.
Well, as I posted over on the Thayer thread (before I found this one), my parents AREN'T a part of my life. I graduated the gulag, went to community college and transferred to NJ's Kean University on the basis of that (on their nickel since I did graduate the program), got a real job and told them to get the hell out of my life. I unloaded everything on them, and told them I'd get a restraining order if I needed to (don't know if I really could, but you should have seen their faces!), and everything else. They weren't at my wedding, and haven't seen my son, though they keep trying to reconcile. Never happen-Hell hasn't frozen over yet!
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Too bad you didn't catch their reaction on camera. I think that would definitely fit on Fornits' front page.
They still keep trying to reconcile? You're obviously not answering them with "Listen you fucking shitsucking cocksucking bastard, I fucking told your dipshit ass not to call here. If it wasn't for the fact that it's more trouble than it's worth, I'd change my last name just to remove my association with you, and be sure to tell that to your cuntslut wife and ram a butcher knife up her asshole."
That's just for starters, of course.
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Well, as I posted over on the Thayer thread (before I found this one), my parents AREN'T a part of my life. I graduated the gulag, went to community college and transferred to NJ's Kean University on the basis of that (on their nickel since I did graduate the program), got a real job and told them to get the hell out of my life. I unloaded everything on them, and told them I'd get a restraining order if I needed to (don't know if I really could, but you should have seen their faces!), and everything else. They weren't at my wedding, and haven't seen my son, though they keep trying to reconcile. Never happen-Hell hasn't frozen over yet!
You are my new hero. :) The reconciliation part reminds me of how so many kids were writing letters non stop to their parents at the program I was at saying how they were being treated, and how it was nothing like they said it would be, etc. The parents always wrote back to shut up and graduate basically and they can't be manipulated. Guess that can work both ways!
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You are my new hero. :) The reconciliation part reminds me of how so many kids were writing letters non stop to their parents at the program I was at saying how they were being treated, and how it was nothing like they said it would be, etc. The parents always wrote back to shut up and graduate basically and they can't be manipulated. Guess that can work both ways!
Actually, they plan on filing a lawsuit against ME! They went to some shyster lawyer who found an obscure case that held that children flourish best when they have contact with grandparants and other family members (CONTACT WITH FAMILY MEMBERS??? WHO ARE THEY KIDDING?) so they are going to file suit to require me to let them visit and such with him. Over my freaking dead body! I may have to prove they are unfit based on their treatment of me in order to keep them out of our lives. Funny, I thought conservatives believed that parents knew best how to raise their kids. Guess that was ok when mine sent me off to be tortured into compliance, but not for me when I want to keep my kids away from someone who would do that. The corporation I work for has outlets overseas-and if I have to I'll ask for a transfer to one of them in a country where the laws are different (worked for WWASPS for a while, didn't it?) and stay there till they're dead of old age. They will have no contact with my kids! :flame:
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Wow, and I thought my parent was a control freak! :o
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What's your parents' names, address, and phone number?
If they're going to play that kind of hardball with you then you should probably start playing some hardball back.
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You are my new hero. :) The reconciliation part reminds me of how so many kids were writing letters non stop to their parents at the program I was at saying how they were being treated, and how it was nothing like they said it would be, etc. The parents always wrote back to shut up and graduate basically and they can't be manipulated. Guess that can work both ways!
Actually, they plan on filing a lawsuit against ME! They went to some shyster lawyer who found an obscure case that held that children flourish best when they have contact with grandparants and other family members (CONTACT WITH FAMILY MEMBERS??? WHO ARE THEY KIDDING?) so they are going to file suit to require me to let them visit and such with him. Over my freaking dead body! I may have to prove they are unfit based on their treatment of me in order to keep them out of our lives. Funny, I thought conservatives believed that parents knew best how to raise their kids. Guess that was ok when mine sent me off to be tortured into compliance, but not for me when I want to keep my kids away from someone who would do that. The corporation I work for has outlets overseas-and if I have to I'll ask for a transfer to one of them in a country where the laws are different (worked for WWASPS for a while, didn't it?) and stay there till they're dead of old age. They will have no contact with my kids! :flame:
You would't have to leave the country. There are several states that have court precedents that specifically state that grandparents have no visitation rights.
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Stick to your guns my dear...they do not deserve you or contact with your children...YOU are the boss; they gave up any "right" they may have had when they abandoned you to the abuse of those programs. Good for you that you have made a good life for yourself. I wish you all the best.
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I dont think it is a good idea for everyone to encourage this man to maintain the rage. I dont pretend to understand what he has been through or why his parents did what they did. I don't blame him for his reaction or for wanting to protect his children from any hurt. But nobody on this forum knows what the parents were thinking when they sent him or what kind of mind control they were under when they kept him there. WWASPs seminars are also known to use cult tactics. How does anyone know the extent to which the parents regret things & whether they are so desperate to try to get the son back they are willing to try anything?
The evil that I see in this is WWASPS which have clearly destroyed this family .
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Rage? Or just good healthy, solid resolve?
I count myself lucky that my mom went back to giving me the cold shoulder once I escaped my gulag. I worried quite a lot when my oldest daughter was young that she'd pull some shit and try to 'rescue' my kids from me.
At one point she actually did seem to be working in that direction. That's when I really shut her out of my life. That was the first time in my adult life that I ever made the foolish mistake of picking up the phone and calling her, of all people, for moral support. The trouble was that my husband was very ill in the hospital. I just needed someone to give a shit, someone to talk to, maybe a few words of assurance and comfort? What I got, instead, was nothing. No real response in that conversation, just 'uh huh, uh huh' sort of thing. Next day, the phone rings. It's her. She's been busy, busy, busy all morning making arrangements for me to check into residential treatment and for some foster care program or other to take care of my two kids, then aged 9 and 2.
Why, you must be asking yourself, would my mother think I needed residential treatment? You probably assume that there was some good basis for it. But then you're probably not factoring in how profound the cult conditioning can be when its philosophy and tenets are well supported by the broader society. Let me explain a little bit about that. The cult we were in was called The Seed till it changed it's name to Straight, Inc. Now they call themselves Drug Free America Foundation and have affiliations through stepcraft and government to almost every aspect of public and private life in this country.
It's a lot like that w/ the WWASP family of cults too. Concensus among the public seems to be that kids are wild animals by default and must be broken and controlled for their own safety and the public good. And there are enough crossovers in personage and philosophy between WWASP and the Seed line of programs to probably justify calling them branches of the same cult.
So this was 10 years after I went through the courts to get out of that program. In that time, my mom and I never did have any kind of relationship. We'd speak occasionally, as in when the occasion absolutely demanded it and there was no way around it. That's how we avoided fighting all the time. So she had no basis for thinking I was fucked up on drugs or fucked up in any other way except for the steady stream of reenforcement she got from her stepcraft practicing friends who had never even met me. The mantra here is once a druggie always a druggie till completion of a 12-step based program.
In reality, I was a good girl. I married, had a couple of kids, worked as much as I had to to make ends meet and take care of those kids. I never got into any trouble. Rarely broke the law even in letter and have always kept the common law to the very best of my ability. But she wouldn't know that because she never came to see me or even called me on the phone. The only times she ever made the 3 hr drive from her cozy home close to the Program back to my home in Pompano was when my brother talked her into it; once for my wedding and again just after my 2nd child was born. Neither time did she spend more than a few minutes just hanging out or make any effort at any serious conversation.
So she didn't know anything at all about me or how I live. She just assumed that, because I split the program without graduating and had not completed a program in the mean time, then I must, necessarily, have been a junkie by then. And she made it clear to me by her response that she had just been waiting for me to have a weak moment so that she could rope me into her highly unpleasant flight of fancy.
I would never, in a million years, leave my kids alone with this sadistic bitch. Her thoughts are scrambled and dark, her words are poison and, given any opening at all, she's demonstrated over and over again her intense will to destroy me.
I don't think we're feeding anybody's rage here. I think we're just offering a little moral support to a fellow former POW in the war on drugs and our own offspring. Hang tough, friend! You're the parent. You decide who is and is not a good influence on your kids. That's your job.
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fair enough. I take your point. I am sorry about the situation with your mother. I agree with everything you said about wider American media culture encouraging this mentality.
(To those who think people outside of the us would not know at all. Your media is everywhere. We too read time & newsweek in Australia)
That does not change the fact that I feel sad for the entire family when I read about this sort of thing. I am not necessarily saying that the guy should take his kids to grandma on a daily basis but it blows me way that so many people including the parents of these kids at these gulags can become so damaged by it all for years to come. Did the parents bring it on themselves? probably.Would i be any different in his shoes? i doubt it. But is it any less sad? i dont think so.
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How? Im not being arrogant or a smart arse here just what did i miss?
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Pls help, I don't think you missed it. And yes, it is sad. But what's one to do?
And yes, I think the parents do bring it on themselves. They're the ones who get recruited, not the kids.
And there's something else. I have a basis for comparison here. My dad was completely different. His involvement and support for the Program was tepid most of the time. Mom dragged him along pretty much unwillingly. He did do an outrageous thing or two along the way. But then so did I and, eventually, he came clean with the fact that it had been a big mistake and never messed with me again after that. If my mother had had the same confidence in her own parenting ability and in us kids to manage growing up we never would have been involved in that mess at all.
Then there's the cop accross the street. Had a big Irish brood of 6 just like us. I was good friends w/ his two younges and my older sister hung w/ the next youngest. When my mom went a recruitin' over there, they slammed the door not only in her face but mine as well. No one ever really explained it to me, but suddenly my best friends were not allowed to even talk to me. I think they, very rightly, were afraid of our family after having spent that valuable time w/ my mom.
Program parents are a whole lot like those whack jobs who lurk around their neighborhoods at night in search of teenagers breaking cerfew so they can have a little excitement in their lives and call the cops on them. In fact one of my brothers grew up to be just such a whack job after graduating the seed and marrying a former Seed staffer. I just have to shake my head in amazement. I don't see much of my brother either, maybe once or twice in a few years and usually at weddings and funerals. So the changes in him are stark when I do see him. I just don't know how this could have happened. I thought he got out of it pretty much ok, but I guess that was just wishful thinking.
You know, Art Barker used to go on and on about taking over the world with his schtick. And I remember 'take over the world' raps pretty frequently at Straight. I don't think anyone should take that too lightly, especially once you consider the political clout of the people at the core of it.
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I am glad for you that you can have a relationship with one of your parents. I wonder if some of these people remain so adamant because of guilt? because they just cant face what has happened to their kids? What they have done? I read the deperate measures story about the lad who shot himself & whose mother was convinced that WWASPS kept him from doing it sooner. It was just chilling. The hold this mentality had over her. The irony of doing this to "save" your kid & loosing them one way or another anyway. I dont have kids but i do know that i can't imagine how bad it would be if my nieces & nephews were not allowed in my life because of some irreperable rift that i or my parents had caused.
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I dont think it is a good idea for everyone to encourage this man to maintain the rage. I dont pretend to understand what he has been through or why his parents did what they did. I don't blame him for his reaction or for wanting to protect his children from any hurt. But nobody on this forum knows what the parents were thinking when they sent him or what kind of mind control they were under when they kept him there. WWASPs seminars are also known to use cult tactics. How does anyone know the extent to which the parents regret things & whether they are so desperate to try to get the son back they are willing to try anything?
The evil that I see in this is WWASPS which have clearly destroyed this family .
Actually, I really don't need any encouragement in my rage, anger, hate, contempt, disgust or any other emotion I feel towards my so-called biological parents. I can handle it well enough on my own. My parents gave up any right to be a part of my life the day I was kidnapped and forcibly transported to that little bit of hell. They agreed that talking to or visiting me-or even uncensored letters to and from me-were a bad thing for a while. Fine, I'm just continuing with that philosophy. Who the hell ever heard of a kid having to EARN the right to see or talk to his own parents? EARN the right to look out a window? EARN the right to freedom of speech (thought the constitution gave that to us-guess Litchfield doesn't believe in it. Would he complain if his rights were disregarded that way?) After that, they feel they have a right to be a part of my life-after they deliberately gave it up? Let me make it clear-if I got a call from my sister that one of them was on their deathbed and wanted to make amends-I'm too busy to travel to see them. Ok, so I used them to get an education-like I said, payback is hell.
By the way, my family is in wonderful shape. It's just that my parents aren't a part of it. My sister is at least on the edges-we communicate, but aren't really close. Why should we be?
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fair enough. I dont dispute you or pass judgement on your views. WWASP facilities sound awful. I genuinely hope you are happy with your life now & that the whole ordeal has made you closer to your new family.
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"Let me make it clear-if I got a call from my sister that one of them was on their deathbed and wanted to make amends-I'm too busy to travel to see them."
Too busy even to gloat?
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I know just what you mean, Guest!
It took me two years, several 'vacations' and a trip through the JJD system, Florida foster care and, finally, the courts to gain my freedom. Once I came of age a month or two later, my dear brother and his former Seed staff member wife very politely told me to pack it in. So I thought I'd go see if I could make things work at home. After all, I was a legal adult so they couldn't force me into the program again, right? Well, sort of, read on.
I got home, signed up for night school and got a job.That lasted about two weeks till the first time I went to a party, crashed on the couch and didn't come home. When I went home to get my work uniform, guess what? De Ja Vouse all over again; all of my clothes were missing and I had an appointment for an intake 'interview' at the LIFE program accross town. That lasted about 2 hours till my rents came into the room and gave me the ultimatum I had been angling for; sign yourself in or leave and don't ever ask for anything from us except for treatment. "Hmm, tough decision! Bye!"
About a mile or so down the road, they pulled over just ahead of me. I stopped and waited for them to leave. No fuckin' way was I giving up what I had fought so hard to earn!
When my sis asked me if I wanted to have a say in decisions about elder care for my mom, I told her to let me know when they had decided to put her somewhere and I'd find just the perfect nursing home! She laughed. She knows how it is. She just didn't get quite the same rough ride I did.
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I am really impressed how good a life you created and am amazed you handle things so well. Sorry you got stuck with such "mother". Doesn't sound like she did anything to earn the title. Just a thought here: My daughter was friends with a young lady and her sister throughout jr. high and high school. Their folks were real liberal: the only rule in the house was that there were no rules. When they were 12 and 13 they lived on their own in town because their folks lived way far out and they had to get up at 5 to get the bus. At the age of 13 the girl's boyfriend was living with her and the family. Sex, drugs, alcohol was available and not taboo. No curfews; mom drove the kids and their friends to Grateful Dead concerts etc. Most of the other families had heart attacks thinking about how they were being raised. Well, guess what? Today they are both very lovely young women. Smart, hardworking, educated, comopassionate, funny DECENT human beings with a great realtionship with their mother (their father, unfortunately perished in an auto accident ). They decided on their own they valued education and went after it. They are successful in every way because they like who they are and they have built lives that they enjoy and work for them. I never would have predicted it. It may have helped that their parents gave them unconditional love and encouragement, never put them down or in the middle of their own issues. They also did not micromanage their kid"s feelings, emotions and behavior; they just let them be.After years of people clucking their tongues and shaking their heads these women have the last laugh.
I am glad you got free of the egg donor. Do not doubt for a minute that you are on the right path although there will be many who will try to guilt trip you about your mother.
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I am just wondering. You said you have a relationship with your dad as he was not as adamant about things & did not support your mum in every decision. Did it cause tension between him & your mum that you were in contact with him? or did their marriage end over it.
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Hi Kathleen,
I am one of the "program parents" that sometimes visit this website, even though my opinions are not usually welcome.
I understand fully that your son was out of control, what was tried at home wasn't working, and that he needed to be placed. Especially with your background in the criminal justice system, you are fully aware of what his future could become.
I guess my only issue is why you chose programs that were outside of the United States? The people who run and frequent this website argue that these all of theses facilities(US or abroad) are not regulated or monitored. I would think that being out of the country would make it even harder to really know what goes on.
I do have a son at a TBS in the US. I have family that lives one hour away. While I feel that although they would not be happy to have an unannounced visit, the fact that I could do so at anytime makes me feel much better. I am also in contact with other parents who whenever they are up visiting their children, check-in with our son.
I guess I am having trouble with the concept of the children away in foreign countries. I am glad that things are working out for your son. I would just be very wary of what actually goes on in these programs.
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While I feel that although they would not be happy to have an unannounced visit, the fact that I could do so at anytime makes me feel much better.
I wouldn't put my dog in a kennel with this policy, and you entrust them with your child? Shame on you! ::noway::
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Since is salves your conscience that you could visit unannounced at any time I am wondering if you ever have done so or are you content just to think all is well because you could do it, that is if you ever really wanted to.
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Hi Kathleen,
I am one of the "program parents" that sometimes visit this website, even though my opinions are not usually welcome.
I understand fully that your son was out of control, what was tried at home wasn't working, and that he needed to be placed. Especially with your background in the criminal justice system, you are fully aware of what his future could become.
I guess my only issue is why you chose programs that were outside of the United States? The people who run and frequent this website argue that these all of theses facilities(US or abroad) are not regulated or monitored. I would think that being out of the country would make it even harder to really know what goes on.
I do have a son at a TBS in the US. I have family that lives one hour away. While I feel that although they would not be happy to have an unannounced visit, the fact that I could do so at anytime makes me feel much better. I am also in contact with other parents who whenever they are up visiting their children, check-in with our son.
I guess I am having trouble with the concept of the children away in foreign countries. I am glad that things are working out for your son. I would just be very wary of what actually goes on in these programs.
You wont even mention what program it is!
I think that youre afraid of scrutiny... why is that?
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nihilanthic,
why does it matter to YOU what TBS it is? Suffice it to say that it is in the United States and THAT is my point!
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nihilanthic,
why does it matter to YOU what TBS it is? Suffice it to say that it is in the United States and THAT is my point!
Here we go again.
The majority of programs, and the majority of abusive programs, are in the USA. Simply having it within our borders is no guarantee of safety or quality of care.
Now, you tell me, what does it show when youre SO afraid of scrutiny, review, criticism, and awareness that you wont even name the program?
Some say sunshine is the best disinfectant. Now Im wondering if it makes you a cockroach to run away from it so damned much.
But yeah, for the newbies or idiots here.... lesse, lets name some abusive programs in the USA off the top of my head:
WWASPS (all of them in the USA)
CEDU schools
PCS
Straight inc.
KHK
LIFE
SEED.
The only WWAPSS schools overseas were Casa, High Impact, Tranquilty bay, The one in 'Rica (dundee ranch I believe) and the one in the Czech Republic. ALL OF THEM HAVE BEEN CLOSED BY LOCAL AUTHORITIES WITH THE NOTABLE EXCEPTION OF TRANQUILTIY BAY. But hey, the WWASPS ones in the USA... are they "ok"? Right.
I await your excuses with anticipation, and a shovel for your bull-shit. :roll:
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Moravia Academy
Is the Czech one :P
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nihilanthic,
why does it matter to YOU what TBS it is? Suffice it to say that it is in the United States and THAT is my point!
Why are you so willing to SEND YOUR CHILD TO THAT PLACE BUT STILL WONT ADMIT WHERE YOU SENT YOUR OWN CHILD?
Its been days, are you that scared to admit it? Just WHO are you trying to fool here?
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It's struck me that almost all of these programmed parents refuse to take any responsibility for their kid's upbringing at all. I mean, if I brought up a kid for a decade and a half and he started getting fucked up on meth or committing petty crimes or [DELETED - you don't want to know what I was about to type], I'd be kicking my own ass something fierce.
There clowns? No responsibility. None. Someone else must be at fault, for They Can Do No Wrong. Which is part of the reason why they send them to programs; if the program can't "fix" their kids, then it's still someone else's fault.
Anything to avoid the idea that they just might be shitty parents, period.
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Wow, big bad program parent cant take any responsibility, just the kid.
And you wonder why we look down on you???
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And the programs themselves are dedicated to the principle that all parents (at least the ones controlling the purse strings) are innocent. The first commandment is Thou Shalt :flame: Let All Parents off the hook. None of them do any "family therapy" or attempt to identify the roots of family dysfunction and how it helped mold a child into somone the parents can't (or don't want to) deal with.
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And the programs themselves are dedicated to the principle that all parents (at least the ones controlling the purse strings) are innocent. The first commandment is Thou Shalt :flame: Let All Parents off the hook. None of them do any "family therapy" or attempt to identify the roots of family dysfunction and how it helped mold a child into somone the parents can't (or don't want to) deal with.
Most programs attempt at 'family therapy' consist of making the parents into dictators and forcing the kid to go along with a 'home contract' under threat of 'exit plan'.
See WWASPS's model... ugh. :roll:
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BUMP.
Troll or a sad excuse for a parent, either way. :roll:
I feel sorry for that persons kids.
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I've been reading this thread for 4 pages now with many mixed emotions...trying to sort out my feelings...I am a former 'program parent'. I love all 3 of my children, spent as much time as possible with them...am a single mother and survivor of lots of crap...still trying to get a grip on my own dysfunctional upbringing...a hippie still in so many ways. I ended up sending my youngest to Majestic Ranch for 4 months when she was 12....either that or one of us was going to kill the other. I don't do hand to hand combat at home...just not my thing. Anyway, I went to 2 WWASPS seminars (discovery & focus)..actually got a lot out of them, then read something on line and went to get my girl...which is when I realised the truth about WWASPS. I really come as close to hating these people as I have ever come to hating anyone. I don't believe in hatred...I think it is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die...let the Pearts and their ilk die instead...I just daily pray that God(dess) will give them all they have earned...it is a prayer, a hope and a certainty. No one hurts the precious children of God(dess) with impunity. To the parent who left her child in Tranquility Bay: I hope he survives, both physically, spiritually and emotionally...the odds are not good; although I am sure you don't want to hear that. I am a high school teacher...I educate; I do not lock people up...perhaps our choice of profession indicates the differences in our approaches. I do not think the penal system is at all about rehabilitation: only degredation and destruction of the human psyche. The same holds true for WWASPS so-called 'schools'. News flash: they have no accredited teachers, no licensed psychologists or trained therapists, and the kids rarely (if ever) see doctors or dentists. Also, if the people running the program know you are 'committed to the process', the process will never end. My kid was constantly losing points...for falling in the snow, for not running fast enough in snow that was up to her chest (we are talking about a California kid). They figured they had me hooked...and they did until I read on line that Wayne Wender, the guy who ran Majestic Ranch had been arrested for aggravated assault on a minor, death threats and sexual assault. I checked out the Utah attorney general's site, and went and got my kid the next day. These people are evil. They are liars and corrupt. I pity any child who is turned over to them. Again: to the parent who started this thread...I sent my kid to Majestic Ranch to keep her out of "the system"...another news flash: "the system has more oversight than WWASPS programs do. The CYA (California Youth Authority) is answerable to the Attorney General's office, among other entities. So far, WWASPS has managed to operate above, under and around the law...no unannounced visits (I had to sign a contract agreeing to this) from parents or anyone else...and they seem to have most of the local politicians in Utah in their pockets. Majestic Ranch is the 2nd largest employer for the county in which they operate. It is a fact that parenting is not easy nowadays: especially when one is a single parent. The government does not seem to care about our children. There are very few mental health resources out there. The conservative right seems to be only concerned about zygotes...once a child is born, families are on their own. I know what it is to have a kid who is out of control...but WWASPS programs are not the answer. There is no guarantee of your child's safety in those programs, and the oversight by any outside party interested in your child's welfare is non-existent. There is MUCH less care of and for the welfare of your child than there would be even in the penal system. Any parent who believes otherwise is frankly, being duped by the people who are getting rich off of torturing our children.
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Good to know someone can actually come straight with making a mistake and (wo)man up to it.
Tigermom, good to know there are people who can think straight... even after getting fucked up with their seminars. Im almost as sorry you went through that as I am that your child did from your mistake.
Unfortunately, anything you (or her, ESPECIALLY, they're much rougher on kids) "got out of them" as far as good feelings is just a pathological effect and is engineered to make you 'believe'. :o You may want to consider exit counseling or some sort of therapy with a psychotherapist who understands brainwashing and cults... they'd probably be able to help you sort out a lot of your feelings. Your kid would benefit too, if she wants to persue that.
But, well, you seem to be getting your bearings about all of this. Fornits, www.isaccorp.org (http://www.isaccorp.org), and googling about "large group awareness training" and other industry terms, buzzwords, and names, will give you all the information youd ever want to know, but its up to you to process it.
Nice to have you aboard. Just remember, the program is just engineered to make money and give the parents a "product" in the form of a stepford kid. Theres no good out of them - theyre not schools, they're not therapy, and they state bluntly that they're not if confronted. They just SEEM that way in borchures to suck people in before theyre convinced after "committing" to it their kid needs to stay there.
It boils down to sucking parents in, and after the 'commitment' and the ensuing psychological pressure to 'stick with it' (and the fact that they have your kid, a ton of money, and tell you they wont reutnr either...) and then convince you the kid needs to stay, and YOU need to be 'fixed' too. They're evil if such a thing as 'evil' exists and need to be wiped off the face of the earth.
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Tony decided that in his first few months at Dundee that he would go to OP. That was his choice dictated by his behavior. He was well aware of the rules and the consequences of his actions. Of course I hated it for him, but I could no more get inside his head and make these choices for him then I could keep him from cussing out his teachers and the local cops when he was home. But here is the rub. One day when my family rep was not available for our weekly phone call, another staff member took my call in his place. This incredible human being is one of the guys who supervises OP. In the 45 minutes that we spoke , I learned so much about what was going on inside my kid?s head. Even tho my child was kneeling on a tile floor with his nose on the wall, there was someone sitting behind him who really cared about him, talking to him, and letting him talk. Someone who saw him for who he really was and didn?t just write him off because of his actions. Someone who was willing to look deeper then the surface. And when I was at the school for the second time at our first Parent/Child Seminar, my son would not let me leave before I met this person because he was "so cool." And when Tony finally found him, he did not greet him with a handshake, he greeted him with a big hug. I also got a big hug too! Was he tramatized by this? I seriously doubt it as he was so excited to show me the OP room and his "pose" while we were doing the school tour. He was laughing and joking about the time he spent there in the early stages of his program.
What is wrong with these people? ::noway::
::puke::
:cry:
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Tony decided that in his first few months at Dundee that he would go to OP. That was his choice dictated by his behavior. He was well aware of the rules and the consequences of his actions. Of course I hated it for him, but I could no more get inside his head and make these choices for him then I could keep him from cussing out his teachers and the local cops when he was home. But here is the rub. One day when my family rep was not available for our weekly phone call, another staff member took my call in his place. This incredible human being is one of the guys who supervises OP. In the 45 minutes that we spoke , I learned so much about what was going on inside my kid?s head. Even tho my child was kneeling on a tile floor with his nose on the wall, there was someone sitting behind him who really cared about him, talking to him, and letting him talk. Someone who saw him for who he really was and didn?t just write him off because of his actions. Someone who was willing to look deeper then the surface. And when I was at the school for the second time at our first Parent/Child Seminar, my son would not let me leave before I met this person because he was "so cool." And when Tony finally found him, he did not greet him with a handshake, he greeted him with a big hug. I also got a big hug too! Was he tramatized by this? I seriously doubt it as he was so excited to show me the OP room and his "pose" while we were doing the school tour. He was laughing and joking about the time he spent there in the early stages of his program.
What is wrong with these people? ::noway::
::puke::
:cry:
'round here we call that brainwashin'.
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These postings disturb me to no end.
Until i remember that they're almost certainly fiction (and that last one approaches parody), then I just laugh.
Or try to, anyway.
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It would be funny if it were fiction, but that account is very much true. Truth is MUCH stranger than fiction!!
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That's bullshit, and you're a troll.
And judging by the posting time and punctuation overkill, the same troll who stepped to me in Open Free For All.
Thank you, come again.
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http://eve-tushnet.blogspot.com/2003_07 ... chive.html (http://eve-tushnet.blogspot.com/2003_07_01_eve-tushnet_archive.html)
Half way down the page.
Thank you, come again. :rofl:
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To Whom It May Concern:
I searched for help or assistance from Police Departments, Social Services and other state and federal governmental agencies, which produced neither a remedy to our problems nor any course of action until the child committed crimes for the juvenile court system to step in. Our 20 year old son is currently serving his second prison sentence. This was what we were trying to prevent in the first place. What we wanted was a child who was respectful, honest and have good values that would be a great asset to society and his community. The peer pressure at elementary, middle and high school was greater than what we could produce. His lack of self-confidence, self-esteem and self-respect created the need for him to fit in and be accepted by one of his peer groups which out weighed any attempt by us to keep him in alignment with our family values.
His 16 year old brother has been in two different schools associated with the World Wide Association of Specialized Programs (WWASP). We were determined he would not follow his brother so he began his journey at the age of 14 years old when we drove him to Casa By the Sea. This was on 18 Aug 2001. We have been on that campus many times. This school provided the structure needed to reinforce the values for him to be successful in today?s world. During the 17 months that he was with Casa By the Sea, we were finally relieved to know that our son was safe and out of harms way. We watched him change from the disrespectful child he was to a calm and strong individual with his own values. He graduated High School one week after his 16th birthday and produced a 3.75 GPA. We made friends with the family representatives and administration that were there and they supported our family during these troubled and frustrating time in our lives. They offered us hope and produced results that have not only changed our son?s life but ours as well. We can only thank them from the bottom of our hearts.
We moved him to Spring Creek Lodge on 12 Feb 2003. This move was originally for his transition back into our family. We recently had him home for his first five-day home pass. He now has a really positive attitude and has a vision of what he wants to do in his future. These changes are contributed to the amount of responsibilities and trust that have been given to him and by the type of leadership that has been entrusted in him by the facility. This is done in a very structured environment, which allows him to take risks by making choices and acting upon them. He is awarded for working choices and receives consequences for non-working choices. His ability to communicate and articulate his discussions has improved to the point that he is truly a joy to sit down with and talk about almost anything. He demonstrates the confidence in himself by his demeanor and this is a truly blessing. We have gained enormous trust with the family representatives and administration and thank each and every one of them from the bottom of our heart for their willingness to do what they do for our children and my family.
He has thanked us for loving him enough to put him into these two schools. He also admitted that if we have not of made our decision to intervene with intervention, he would most likely have been dead by now.
Our story is similar to many other parents who have children who were juvenile delinquents, using drugs, drinking alcohol, running away from home, skipping school, violating curfew, taking our car to go on pleasure rides, disregard of house rules, sneaking out at night to party with friends, stealing, destroying personal property, disrespectful to parents, disrespectful to teachers, having unprotected sex and being totally disrespectful to girls.
I can only say that these schools have been a Godsend for my family and I would recommend either of them for any family that has children that are out of control. I only wish that there were more facilities available so more children and families can get the help that they need. In my opinion, if the United States of America would use this type of education system, there would be a greater number of success stories for many young men and women today and a significant decrease in crime by our youth?and there would be no more Columbines.
I have met many graduates of all of the schools with WWASP who have no reason to lie about any abuse at the schools. I would strongly state that I would not want my son?s process or school to be disrupted, disrupted or interfered with because of the opinion of some disgruntled individuals or by bad publicity by the press. To do so would be a great disservice to my family and the multitude of parents who are seeking help for their precious teen. I ask that before any reporter publishes half truths, that they confirm and confirm again before they print harmful stories.
Richard Causer
That's 17 months at CASA. ::ftard:: Like I said before, what is wrong with these people?
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Judging by writing style, I'm guessing that all nine of those letters were written by the same handful of people who troll this very board. Possibly even one person with a handful of styles.
Listen- I do fiction, all right? A lot of you believed in Paul and Luke, even when Luke was using his electrical powers left and right and Paul was playing mastermind. I actually had to point out that they were fictional, numerous times, because I didn't want anyone feeling sympathy for someone who doesn't quite exist.
And now any of you are seriously going to believe this parroted crap?
"I would like to say that the intervention by those 2 parties at Dundee was completely inexcusable and I did not like the way that they did it." They're trying to have us believe that a student wrote that shit? Uh, no. Try harder next time. Lots harder.
Just because someone says it, doesn't make it so.
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Judging by writing style, I'm guessing that all nine of those letters were written by the same handful of people who troll this very board. Possibly even one person with a handful of styles.
Listen- I do fiction, all right? A lot of you believed in Paul and Luke, even when Luke was using his electrical powers left and right and Paul was playing mastermind. I actually had to point out that they were fictional, numerous times, because I didn't want anyone feeling sympathy for someone who doesn't quite exist.
And now any of you are seriously going to believe this parroted crap?
"I would like to say that the intervention by those 2 parties at Dundee was completely inexcusable and I did not like the way that they did it." They're trying to have us believe that a student wrote that shit? Uh, no. Try harder next time. Lots harder.
Just because someone says it, doesn't make it so.
Signs/Symptoms
Paranoid Schizophrenia usually develops gradually, although onset can be sudden. Friends and family often notice the first changes before the victim does. Among the signs are:
* Confusion
* Inability to make decisions
* Hallucinations
* Changes in eating or sleeping habits, energy level, or weight
* Delusions
* Nervousness
* Strange statements or behavior
* Withdrawal from friends, work, or school
* Neglect of personal hygiene
* Anger
* Indifference to the opinions of others
* A tendency to argue
* A conviction that you are better than others, or that people are out to get you
Seek help. Nobody believed luke and paul.
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And if you still don't believe there are thousands of brainwashed WWASP parents who write stuff like this, and put it into practice in a scary and disturbing way, take a look at these fine folks.
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=1 ... tnG=Search (http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=WWASPS+ACCOLADES&btnG=Search)
They look so happy - it must be nice not having a kid anymore!
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I was waiting for you to say something easily disprovable.
Nobody believed luke and paul.
Search function, folks!
Should I post links? Naaaah. I'll let you guys find 'em, if you care enough. Me, I'm off to the skate park to corrupt some more kids, and then down to the mall to grab a copy of Guitar Hero.
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How self righteous of you. :rofl:
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To Whom It May Concern:
I searched for help or assistance from Police Departments, Social Services and other state and federal governmental agencies, which produced neither a remedy to our problems nor any course of action until the child committed crimes for the juvenile court system to step in. Our 20 year old son is currently serving his second prison sentence. This was what we were trying to prevent in the first place. What we wanted was a child who was respectful, honest and have good values that would be a great asset to society and his community. The peer pressure at elementary, middle and high school was greater than what we could produce. His lack of self-confidence, self-esteem and self-respect created the need for him to fit in and be accepted by one of his peer groups which out weighed any attempt by us to keep him in alignment with our family values.
His 16 year old brother has been in two different schools associated with the World Wide Association of Specialized Programs (WWASP). We were determined he would not follow his brother so he began his journey at the age of 14 years old when we drove him to Casa By the Sea. This was on 18 Aug 2001. We have been on that campus many times. This school provided the structure needed to reinforce the values for him to be successful in today?s world. During the 17 months that he was with Casa By the Sea, we were finally relieved to know that our son was safe and out of harms way. We watched him change from the disrespectful child he was to a calm and strong individual with his own values. He graduated High School one week after his 16th birthday and produced a 3.75 GPA. We made friends with the family representatives and administration that were there and they supported our family during these troubled and frustrating time in our lives. They offered us hope and produced results that have not only changed our son?s life but ours as well. We can only thank them from the bottom of our hearts.
We moved him to Spring Creek Lodge on 12 Feb 2003. This move was originally for his transition back into our family. We recently had him home for his first five-day home pass. He now has a really positive attitude and has a vision of what he wants to do in his future. These changes are contributed to the amount of responsibilities and trust that have been given to him and by the type of leadership that has been entrusted in him by the facility. This is done in a very structured environment, which allows him to take risks by making choices and acting upon them. He is awarded for working choices and receives consequences for non-working choices. His ability to communicate and articulate his discussions has improved to the point that he is truly a joy to sit down with and talk about almost anything. He demonstrates the confidence in himself by his demeanor and this is a truly blessing. We have gained enormous trust with the family representatives and administration and thank each and every one of them from the bottom of our heart for their willingness to do what they do for our children and my family.
He has thanked us for loving him enough to put him into these two schools. He also admitted that if we have not of made our decision to intervene with intervention, he would most likely have been dead by now.
Our story is similar to many other parents who have children who were juvenile delinquents, using drugs, drinking alcohol, running away from home, skipping school, violating curfew, taking our car to go on pleasure rides, disregard of house rules, sneaking out at night to party with friends, stealing, destroying personal property, disrespectful to parents, disrespectful to teachers, having unprotected sex and being totally disrespectful to girls.
I can only say that these schools have been a Godsend for my family and I would recommend either of them for any family that has children that are out of control. I only wish that there were more facilities available so more children and families can get the help that they need. In my opinion, if the United States of America would use this type of education system, there would be a greater number of success stories for many young men and women today and a significant decrease in crime by our youth?and there would be no more Columbines.
I have met many graduates of all of the schools with WWASP who have no reason to lie about any abuse at the schools. I would strongly state that I would not want my son?s process or school to be disrupted, disrupted or interfered with because of the opinion of some disgruntled individuals or by bad publicity by the press. To do so would be a great disservice to my family and the multitude of parents who are seeking help for their precious teen. I ask that before any reporter publishes half truths, that they confirm and confirm again before they print harmful stories.
Richard Causer
Since when is it up to the police, social services, state and federal government to do YOUR job as a parent? They have already taken responsibility for one son and you want to give them both? I hope you don't have any more kids you are waiting to give away. In all the "testimonials" we see everything that is "wrong" with the kid and all the "wrong choices" they made but NADA about any insight a "parent" every got about what they themselves did wrong or how they learned to change their own behaviors and attitudes. For this reason alone all TBS are a monumental failure in my opinion. I have no doubt your kid improved; after all their are some so-called ""parents" who are sooooo screwed up and sooooo clueless with such horrible home environments that that a TBS is actually an improvement in the kids life! Here is a clue for the clueless that appeared in today's paper:
It's entitled "Don't trick your kids; teach them:"
Dear Carolyn: Do you have specific advice for teenagers (especially girls) to prevent them from premarital sec, or are you one who smiles and says "You are not mature, but if you must, here is a condom." I need every trick in the book.
Answer: No you don't. (need every trick in the book). You need a clear, coherent, life-long well-thought-out message that reflects your values and shows respect both for your kids' intelligence and for the strength of their hormones. And your kids need to kow your love isn't contingent upon their following the exact road you choose for them, because they aren't going to follow it;' you might as well accept that now. I ft hey know you will love them regardless, though, and if you teach tem the importance of making good choices, they'll find their own way, for their own reasons.
Tricks, on the other hand are advance admissions of defeat, declarations that your kids can't control themselves and so you must try to control them. Your pressure is annoying too - and the annoyed kids of parents who fear premaritial sex know exactly how to ge ttheir revenge..
I would pay close attention to the last sentence. You feel good now that the pressure is off you Your kid is kneeling with his nose pressed to the wall and you get all wet talking about his abuser? Shit man, I'd be after that sucker with a baseball bat. ::stab::
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That was my post and it is sex, not sec but the important point is not about sex; it is about TEACHING rather than CONTROLLING.
When you have failed to teach and resort to controlling it only works for a while, if at all. You would do your children a big favor if you came down off your high horse, admitted your mistakes, took responsibility, gained some insight into your own behavior and made some changes in your attitude in your own life. If you can't help yourself, you can't help them and they know it. At any rate the answer is not to subject your child to more mind-twisting crap. When he gets out and reverts back to normal it is going to be difficult for all of you.
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And if you still don't believe there are thousands of brainwashed WWASP parents who write stuff like this, and put it into practice in a scary and disturbing way, take a look at these fine folks.
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=1 ... tnG=Search (http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=WWASPS+ACCOLADES&btnG=Search)
They look so happy - it must be nice not having a kid anymore!
Yes, the happy smiles of the Stepfords. I don't see a lot of young people up there though.
And most of the parents have a funny look about them that's somewhere between constipated and retarded...
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Dear Carolyn: Do you have specific advice for teenagers (especially girls) to prevent them from premarital sec, or are you one who smiles and says "You are not mature, but if you must, here is a condom." I need every trick in the book.
Answer: No you don't. (need every trick in the book). You need a clear, coherent, life-long well-thought-out message that reflects your values and shows respect both for your kids' intelligence and for the strength of their hormones. And your kids need to kow your love isn't contingent upon their following the exact road you choose for them, because they aren't going to follow it;' you might as well accept that now. I ft hey know you will love them regardless, though, and if you teach tem the importance of making good choices, they'll find their own way, for their own reasons.
Tricks, on the other hand are advance admissions of defeat, declarations that your kids can't control themselves and so you must try to control them. Your pressure is annoying too - and the annoyed kids of parents who fear premaritial sex know exactly how to ge ttheir revenge..
:nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :nworthy: :tup: :tup: :tup:
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And if you still don't believe there are thousands of brainwashed WWASP parents who write stuff like this, and put it into practice in a scary and disturbing way, take a look at these fine folks.
http://images.google.com/images?svnum=1 ... tnG=Search (http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=WWASPS+ACCOLADES&btnG=Search)
They look so happy - it must be nice not having a kid anymore!
Yes, the happy smiles of the Stepfords. I don't see a lot of young people up there though.
And most of the parents have a funny look about them that's somewhere between constipated and retarded...
They took our pictures (the kids) when we were locked up, luckily they aren't posting them up for everyone to see though. I saw mine when I got home and it looked like I was some crazy dude living int he woods, it didn't even look like me. I don't know if WWASP still has this policy of sending your parent a picture of you in a situation that you would only see on the photograph day (being out in the woods for instance), because for mine it kind of freaked them out. And I am sure this is the case with a lot of parents. Plus, its just retarded that they send parents picks like we are kidnapped and being ransomed or something, why cant we just talk on the phone or they visit? :wink:
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So they have around 100 or so families in the past few years (no dates, no last names, no proof) that wrote accolades after they were brainwashed by Discovery (EST) brainwashing seminars. Funny how they seem to all be SCL graduates and none others. With Spring Creek Lodge being their flag ship model program for the public's eye, and from what I've read and heard, the softest WWASPS program out there. It's saddening and revolting to see so many parents blinded by a total scam. I wonder if what's written is even real... Don?t they have like one hundred or more kids at SCL at a time anyway? The most typical scam to get people to buy an idea in the book. A bunch of over-hyped, questionably real acclaims by questionably real people.
Blah? :roll:
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So they have around 100 or so families in the past few years (no dates, no last names, no proof) that wrote accolades after they were brainwashed by Discovery (EST) brainwashing seminars. Funny how they seem to all be SCL graduates and none others. With Spring Creek Lodge being their flag ship model program for the public's eye, and from what I've read and heard, the softest WWASPS program out there. It's saddening and revolting to see so many parents blinded by a total scam. I wonder if what's written is even real... Don?t they have like one hundred or more kids at SCL at a time anyway? The most typical scam to get people to buy an idea in the book. A bunch of over-hyped, questionably real acclaims by questionably real people.
Blah? :roll:
Many people will disagree that it is the softest WWASP program. I would rate the foreign ones the worst, then SCL, then the rest. There are around 400-500 kids at SCL now at any given time (built for ten times less). THey take those pictures and testimonials from the seminars, and if anyone has agood undertnding of what goes on, you know why it's all bullshit. Even I at one point wrote a positive review for SCL, in my darkest moment when they almost got to me. ::noway::
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So they have around 100 or so families in the past few years (no dates, no last names, no proof) that wrote accolades after they were brainwashed by Discovery (EST) brainwashing seminars. Funny how they seem to all be SCL graduates and none others. With Spring Creek Lodge being their flag ship model program for the public's eye, and from what I've read and heard, the softest WWASPS program out there. It's saddening and revolting to see so many parents blinded by a total scam. I wonder if what's written is even real... Don?t they have like one hundred or more kids at SCL at a time anyway? The most typical scam to get people to buy an idea in the book. A bunch of over-hyped, questionably real acclaims by questionably real people.
Blah? :roll:
Many people will disagree that it is the softest WWASP program. I would rate the foreign ones the worst, then SCL, then the rest. There are around 400-500 kids at SCL now at any given time (built for ten times less). THey take those pictures and testimonials from the seminars, and if anyone has agood undertnding of what goes on, you know why it's all bullshit. Even I at one point wrote a positive review for SCL, in my darkest moment when they almost got to me. ::noway::
Yes, I know what goes on. I'm not trying to say that SCL isn't hard, but they do use it as their flag ship program model.
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SCL is now 'withdrawling' itself from under the WWASP umbrella I don't know if they could pull that off anymore. From what i've seen they are really promoting their new camps, for young kids, majestic ranch, CCM and their 18 year old programs. They seem to be trying to expand.
Heres a question for program parents. When you go to a wwasp program seminar in a hotel, are all the parents from one facility or are the parents from multiple facilities?
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It's impossible for them to do that. They can try, but it won't happen.
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It's impossible for them to do that. They can try, but it won't happen.
What.. withdrawing from wwasp? I read their press release but haven't heard anything since, have you some inside knowledge you'd care to share? Because I sure hope you're right... take away the wwasp label and everything bad that happened their can be excused by saying, we are the new owners, etc..
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Actually I was hoping he meant that they can't expand...
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I just read about the removal attempt and expansion of SCL. Do they really think that is going to work? It's just as ridiculous as a name change...
~Shlee
P.S. Wow, it's been awhile since I've been on here, things have changed up a bit.