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Topics - try another castle

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91
1. Type of restriction
2. Who ran it?
3. How many days?
4. What was your work detail?
5. What was your reading assignment?
6. What were your writing assignments? (optional)
7. What family/team were you in?
8. What were the "agreements"? (I have particular interest in hearing from people who were on jumpsuits/outdoor restrictions, since they didn't have this when I was there.)
9. What year? (optional) I'm interested in this because I'd like to see how these punishments have evolved over time.
10. Do you still have your notebook?
11. Did you make a sundial on your work detail so you could tell what time it was? 8-)

No need to mention why you were put on it, unless you want to.

Don't worry if you can't fill out everything on the list. Just say what you remember.

These questions are based off of the 1980s model of a full-time, so one size certainly does not fit all.

If you've been on more than one full-time or outdoor restriction, please feel free to give details about any or all of them, if you want.

Also, feel free to add any info that isn't on the list, if you want.

EDIT: Okay, now I'm confused. I originally thought that the jumpsuit included the outdoor restriction where you have to live in a tent, but what I've found of it on this site says that they would put you in a jumpsuit to do your work detail. However, there is no mention of the connection with the outdoor restriction. Can ANYONE shed light on this??? If the outdoor restriction was not a jumpsuit, what was it called?

My answers:

1. Full-time

2. Richard

3. 14 days

4. Building a rock wall

5. Old Man and the Sea - Hemmingway

6.
- Dirt List
- Lies I told at RMA
- Things I feel badly about (what I'm ashamed to share with anyone)
- What I hate about myself
- What I'm angry about
- How I push people away (what I do to be alone)
- How am I just like "the old man"? (re: reading assignment)
- What qualities do I admire in him?
- How I create pain in my life
- My flags
- What do I want? How am I going to get it?
- What's real about me?
- What I can give to myself and others.

7. Voyageurs

8. (note: mine are rather detailed, since I still have my notebook. Richard wrote them on the inside cover.)
- Restricted to table. You must ask faculty permission to leave for any reason. (cigarette, bathroom)
- There are no privileges
- Bans - Voyageurs, Discovery, Quest
- No smiling, laughing, singing or hugging
- No talking to people from your table.
- Ask questions about all assignments before you start them. (work, reading or writing.)
- Come prepared to work every day (boots, gloves, jacket, rain gear, etc.)
- Work hours: M-F 8:00-11:45, 1:00-4:45. Sat. 9:00-11:45, 1:00-4:45.  Sun. 9:00-10:45, 12:30-3:45
- Dorm head or dorm support will walk you up and down from your dorm
- Total involvement in raps.
- Limited to 4 cigarettes per day
- Keep a daily journal of your thoughts and feelings for each day. Include raps, work, booth restriction, or whatever comes up that needs explaining.

9. 1987

10. Yes

11. No

Additional observation: I noticed that many of these writing assignments are simply variations of a disclosure list. In my notebook, there is a lot of repetition of information from one list to another. It's simply written in different ways, to tailor itself to the particular assignment.

92
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / CEDU paperwork.
« on: January 01, 2007, 04:28:12 PM »
This might have differed depending on when you went there.

RMA '87: On intake, they gave me some sort of contract or paperwork to sign.

Does anyone remember what this was, exactly? Was it consent to treat? Something like that?

Anyway, I never signed it. Refused to even look at it. I was always curious as to what the fuck it was.

93
The Troubled Teen Industry / Intimacy and dissociation
« on: December 30, 2006, 06:33:50 AM »
Questions for survivors: Do any of you experience dissociation during moments of intimacy? (Sex, kissing, etc.)

Not like I got a whole lot of action before CEDU, but what little making out I did, the experience was quite different than after I got out. When I kissed people before, I felt "all there."

I slept with a woman less than six months after graduating, and I was really into her. When we first kissed, I was really turned on... up until the point when we kissed. Then it was like a piece of my brain broke off and decided to go somewhere else. Same thing when we had sex. It was as if there was a part of me that wasn't there. It was frustrating as hell, because I really wanted her, it's just that not all of my brain seemed to want to cooperate. I figured maybe it was an isolated incident.

But that pretty much happens with any kind of sexual thing with me. Dissociation. Part of me is gone. Even though I will try to make myself fully present. I think probably the only time it's minimal is when I'm blowing a guy, and that might be because I am the one in control. (However, it can and does happen then, too.) When it comes to kissing and sex... yeah... off in another world. Not by choice, either.

When I'm with trade, it's not that big of a deal. I mean, it's trade, after all. But in a relationship, it can really suck.

Besides, it WOULD be nice to get off with another person, once in a while.


Anyone here have similar problems?

94
The Troubled Teen Industry / another one gone
« on: December 28, 2006, 11:04:00 PM »
A few weeks ago, my therapist was telling me that during his weekly meetings with his colleagues, one of the therapists asked about TBS facilities. She apparently has clients who are parents and were considering sending their daughter to a place. The therapist asked if anyone in the room had any info on any of these facilities. My therapist raised his hand and say "Oh yes! I do." and he proceeded to tell her about my experience with CEDU. (What he knew at the time. I've been telling him more recently.) He made a point to mention how negative these places are.

When he told me about it a few weeks ago, I suggested that he recommend Szalavitz's book to the other therapist's clients. We followed up a week later, and he did, indeed recommend the book to her. During that time, I was giving him more info about the industry as a whole.

Today, I asked him if he had heard from his colleague about what had happened. He said "It was frightening. It went down just like you said it would. The parents went ahead and hired an escort to come get her at 5am, to take her away on a plane, to a place in Utah (he didn't have the facility's name offhand). They can't see her right away, and when she does come to visit, she will have to have an escort with her. And the place is outrageously expensive. They are going to have to take out a second mortgage on their house." He was obviously shaken by it. Of course, this sounds familiar to all of us, but he was freaked out.

I asked him "Did you tell her about the book?" He said "Absolutely! She recommended it to them, but they sent her off anyway. They probably didn't read it, or didn't want to read it."

I said "Did she mention by any chance why the parents wanted her to be sent off, anyway?" (not like there is any valid reason to be sent to one of these places) He said "Based on what she said, they simply sounded happy and relieved to be alone finally."

I said "So essentially, they didn't want to be parents anymore? So the kid has to suffer?"

He shook his head sadly and said "It sounds that way."

Anyway, I left him a message about the isaccorp.org site, so his colleague can educate herself on the specific facilities and their abuses. It sounds like the parents are true program parents, though, in the sense that they have totally bought into the whole sales pitch. But at least the therapist can learn more about this shit, especially if she is going to continue to treat these people. Yeah, I guess I should have mentioned the website first instead of the book when the subject was initially broached, websites are less cumbersome to navigate through for people who are seeking quick answers.

Maybe I'm tired. Maybe it's lack of sleep. I read about kids being sent off all the time on this forum. I don't know this kid, or her parents, but for some reason, it upset me. I rarely cry. Even when I try to cry, I normally can't. I don't even cry about my own experiences at CEDU, so I don't know why this hit me weird. I mean, it's not like I was naive enough to even think that my suggestions, two persons removed, no less, would have had much of an impact. Good lord, I'm not that idealistic, and I'm not Mr. Interventionist, but I felt obligated to sure as fuck say something about it. I guess what hit me was thinking about what fresh hell this kid is going through right now. Why her and not all of the other stories I've read and heard about? Dunno.

Fucking whatever. I'm going to bed.

95
The Troubled Teen Industry / Welcome to your impossible future!
« on: December 28, 2006, 06:36:26 AM »
http://www.leadertrain.com/

 :rofl:  :rofl:  :rofl:

Founded by the Hanleys, those Lifespring guys.

(Thanks to anonymous guest in the Dr. Phil thread, who hipped me to the Hanley Sr. site, which then lead me to this.)

The site's copyright is 2004, so not sure if they are defunct now or what. (Maybe they missed the opportunity for that "lasting, significant upgrade" they so eagerly talked about.)

Anyway, LTDG apparently helped out Taco Bell. That's not so bad, right?  :P

96
Let It Bleed / mac is teh sux0rs
« on: December 27, 2006, 01:00:26 AM »

97
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / AA and CEDU
« on: December 23, 2006, 03:52:02 AM »
There were some things. You sat in a circle, (in some meetings) and told war stories about how fucked up you used to get on drugs and alcohol, and you had obnoxious, no-boundaries hugs. A lot of the people there were still fucked up on drugs, and could barely read the 12 principles during the meeting. It was hilarious. Going to NA was like entertainment, just watching all of the idiots there and listening to their bullshit.

The raps were nothing like 12 step meetings, though. No confrontation, not even any feedback. People just stood up, shared, then finished and everyone clapped for them. Even if it was the most inane, stupid bullshit someone could say, they would clap for them afterwards. I remember one time some punk-assed bitch dickweed in a doo-rag stood up, and shared that that morning, he had beaten the shit out of his girlfriend, but that it's ok, because he feels bad about it, and he went to a meeting. People clapped after he shared. I said to myself "What the fuck??? Okay, that's it. Screw you guys, I'm never coming back." and I never did.

The main thing that I found to be cult like was the whole "Keep coming back!" attitude, and if you weren't going to meetings, but staying sober, you were considered a "dry drunk". And of course, the 12th step, which was about trying to spread the word of 12 step to the people who were "still suffering". Lots of shame-based crap. Lots of bullshit about how 12 step was the only way to stay sober. Yet their attrition rate, by their own numbers, is 95%.

Oh yeah, and the whole "turning your life over to god" thing. What a joke. As if god (if he/she exists) has time to keep you sober. God doesn't do people's laundry.

I've found that 12 step meetings were pretty much good for two things: getting laid and scoring drugs.

I never went to synanon, but I can say that 12 step is NOTHING like CEDU. CEDU is full-blown crazy, 12 step is just idiotic bullshit.

If 12 step is a cult, they are a really  CRAPPY cult, because they can't even hang onto their own members.

I had to quit some substances, and I used rational recovery. Worked just fine for me. No groups, no meetings, no stupid-assed sobriety chip, just read a book.

98
No. Not Steve Rookey, and not that creepy Steve who worked down on the farm and with Quest and talked about his airplane accident.

I brought this up in the middle of another thread a long time ago, but thought I'd try again.

He was tall and lanky, and had salt-and-pepper curly hair, and a moustache. Very smart. He taught stained glass. He left the program because he thought it was full of shit. I think he had been through the first three propheets.

I remember that the first book he had us read for lit class was Lord of the Flies. (mob rules, anyone?) And I'm pretty sure he was also the teacher who had us read anti-utopian books such as Brave New World, Childhood's End and 1984. (1984 was one of my favorite novels. I even had a copy on my bookshelf in the dorm. Yet I was still unable to connect the dots.)

In a journalism class, he had us read the CEDU newspaper. Then he asked us, "Does anyone know what kind of journalism this is?" Nobody knew. He then wrote "Fluff" on the board, and explained to us what it meant. We laughed.

But I think his crowning achievement was when he got permission to show all of the students who took his classes the movie Brazil. For those who haven't seen this picture, it's a sci-fi anti-utopian flick, where the establishment is totally oppressive and fucked up. Very early on in the movie, you see a huge statue, erected by the government, at the base of which says "The Truth Will Set You Free".

It seems to me that he might have been trying to tell us something. ::bangin::

One time in his stained glass class, I recall saying something silly in a weird voice, just joking around, and one of my other classmates scoffed derisively and said "What the fuck?" Steve just laughed, and said to me "When are you going to realize that you were, are, and always will be this eccentric artist, and not some normal boring person you think you want to be, who is going to get married, have 2.5 kids, and live in a house with a white picket fence?" It scared the hell out of me at the time. Because normal was good, and weird was bad, just like the program says, and I wanted to be normal. I talked all the time about the family I was going to have in my future. But what he said was true. I'm weird and dorky, and definitely not a family man. Being normal goes against my grain. RMA couldn't get the freak out of me, and nobody else can, either.

Does anyone remember this guy? And if so, do you remember his last name? I think he might have been there around late 88 or 89. He didn't stay too long. Neither did his girlfriend, who became a staff the same time he did. They both left together, apparently totally disgusted with the program.

Anyway, here's to you, Steve. Wherever you are.

99
Let It Bleed / Votes for the most influential bands.
« on: December 18, 2006, 10:44:36 PM »
List the three bands you think were the most influential in modern music.

My votes:
1. Beatles
2. Black Sabbath
3. Pixies

The Beatles revolutionized rock n' roll. Sabbath were the godfathers of heavy metal. (NOT Led Zeppelin.) Pixies changed everything. There was no band like them before, and only cheap imitations afterwards.

And FUCK Elvis. Bitch.

100
Open Free for All / benzodiazepine
« on: April 10, 2006, 11:02:00 PM »
How many people here use it? What has your experience with it been like? Have you been able to handle your work better/did it help to motivate you? Did it ever induce depression? Has the addictive factor been an issue?

I've heard lots of mixed stories from people I have known. Some can handle them, some can't. I was curious to hear from others.

For those who don't know, some drugs that are classified as benzos are xanax, ativan, klonipin, rohypnal and valium.

101
Open Free for All / This Wednesday
« on: April 04, 2006, 11:36:00 AM »
On two minutes and three seconds after one a.m., the numerical date will be 01:02:03 04/05/06. That won't happen for another hundred years.

Of course, if you live in Europe, this won't happen, because they list their dates with the day first, and then the month.

Also, in June, there will be 06:06:06 06/06/06, no matter where you live.

Just thought I would provide some completely useless info.

102
Open Free for All / Spend a hot, throbbing night with Vince Gallo.
« on: March 24, 2006, 12:21:00 AM »
http://www.vgmerchandise.com/misc.html

... or just his sperm.

Sorry, guys. Ladies only.

_________________
"Learn from your mistakes so that one day you can repeat them precisely."
-Trevor Goodchild
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-03-24 01:15 ]

103
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / ridikkulus
« on: March 08, 2006, 07:02:00 PM »
If CEDU was one thing, it was definitely "ridikkulus". I would love to hear about how some of the most bizarre shit we may have encountered there also had an aspect of absolute hilarity. Gotta have a sense of humor about some of these things, you know.

104
http://www.subgenius.com/updates/maghelp.html

This is the PINKEST thing I've ever heard.

________________________________________

A member of the SubGenius heirarchy, the Rev. Magdalen writes on her website that participating in the Church's X-Day art gags led to the loss of custody of her son.

"His Honor also strongly disapproved of the photos of Mary Magdalen (Rachel Bevilacqua) in a bondage dress and papier maché goat?s head. The judge repeatedly asked, ?Why a goat? What?s so significant about a goat?s head?? When Rachel replied, ?I just thought the word ?goat? was funny,? Judge Punch lost his temper completely, and began to shout abuse at Rachel, calling her a ?pervert,? ?mentally ill,? ?lying,? and a participant in ?sex orgies.? The judge ordered that Rachel is to have absolutely no contact with her son, not even in writing, because he felt the pictures of X-Day performance art were evidence enough to suspect ?severe mental illness."

105
Open Free for All / Israeli anti semetic cartoons contest.
« on: February 19, 2006, 06:05:00 PM »
Sorry, this post lost

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