Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on January 27, 2005, 07:01:00 AM
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I thought "Samantha" was in the "L.I.F.E." Program of Sarasota,Florida.
Why does the Montel materials say that Samantha was in a program called "Straight"?
Why?
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Oh yea (bump)
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Because she was in both LIFE and Straight you dimwit.
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Oh,Gee Thanks.Clears THAT ONE up (If you should like to meet in person to call me a dimwit it will be the last thing you do with your front teeth intact).
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If Sammie was in BOTH L.I.F.E. and Straight programs,why did she fail to mention the L.I.F.E. Program?If memory serves me correctly,the news story (from RickRoss.com)says the "humble panties" and "forced abortions" occored whilst she was in the L.I.F.E. Program.Thats where the problems start,one little lie or forgetting one small little detail puts her entire testimony in to question.
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Bullshit. They're almost one in the same. Take your fucking trolling elsewhere.
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Almost only counts with horseshoes and hand grenades.
So you think "L.I.F.E." not worth the mention?Seems you dont even want to admit L.I.F.E. even existed?
It IS in fact a spicific place where Sammie was abused,or was it?Dont remember? Get your story straight!
Why the ban on the use of the word "L.I.F.E."?Was it just not abusive ENOUGH for you?I guess L.I.F.E. was just a picnic.Oh yea,thats right,Sammie was raped and forced abortioned there,or was it Straight?
Straight or L.I.F.E.,cant seem to remember.
Was Sammie being "honest" or just "truthful" on the Montel show?I guess you dont care.
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There is no ban on LIFE. Get over this obsession. Straight gets more ink because it got more back then. Quit whining and go on a TV show yourself if you'd like LIFE to get more press.
Pick it apart all you want, but if you're not happy with the way things are being presented, fucking do something about it besides bitch then!!!!
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"Obsession"? "Prick it apart"?
If you read my original post you will see that I only asked a simple question,then someone replied that Straight and L.I.F.E. are "one and the same".
Sammie was abused at L.I.F.E.,and the spicific incidents that occored at L.I.F.E. were said to have happened,by Sammie on the Montel Show,at Straight.These related programs were not one in the same and were attended to at completely different addresses and locations.
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I said they were ALMOST one in the same. As i said before. If you want LIFE to get more exposure....go to it.
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Sammie had that opportunity (to tell the truth)on the Montel Show,but she chose to leave the honest facts out.
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On 2005-01-27 04:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
Thats where the problems start,one little lie or forgetting one small little detail puts her entire testimony in to question."
Well, get used to it. Fact is we start out, right out of the chute, w/ our entire collective testimony in question. Why? Cause anything after "It all started when I was a teenager in rehab" is about as impressive to most people as whatever might follow "I used to be crazy, but I'm much better now."
Maybe that's why you're hung up on the details? Listen, the media gets a few things wrong damned near every time. Just look at how many variations on the name "Christ at the Beach Foundation" have been printed lately. Or just look at any halfway decent national or local newspaper and you'll find a corrections section. Sometimes they're quite humorous.
I hadn't known, or maybe I forgot, that Sammie was ever in LIFE. Are you sure that's a fact? Or are you passing on something that's not true? Would that make you like the man in the old joke who was born in the town of liars and so cannot ever tell the truth, no matter what?
Of course not.
It takes a thousand voices to tell just one story. One does not have to appeal to God to set the initial conditions for the creation of the universe, but if one does He would have to act through the laws of physics.
--Stephen Hawking, English scientist
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On 2005-01-27 04:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If Sammie was in BOTH L.I.F.E. and Straight programs,why did she fail to mention the L.I.F.E. Program?If memory serves me correctly,the news story (from RickRoss.com)says the "humble panties" and "forced abortions" occored whilst she was in the L.I.F.E. Program.Thats where the problems start,one little lie or forgetting one small little detail puts her entire testimony in to question."
Well, here's the Fox News story that unquestioningly puts the incidents as happening at Straight, Inc.
http://www.webdiva.org/fox/ (http://www.webdiva.org/fox/)
Maybe you could provide the link to the story you saw?
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http://www.rickross.com/reference/strai ... ght54.html (http://www.rickross.com/reference/straight/straight54.html)
Drug War Casualties
Fox News Channel/May 23, 2002
By Radley Balko
Samantha Monroe was 12 years old in 1981 when her parents enrolled her in the Sarasota, Fla., branch of Straight Inc., an aggressive drub rehab center for teens.
Barely a teen, Samantha also had no history of drug abuse. But she spent the next three years of her life surviving Straight.
She was beaten, starved and denied toilet privileges for days on end. She describes her "humble pants," a punishment that forced her to wear the same pants for six weeks at a time. Because she was allowed just one shower a week, the pants often filled with feces, urine and menstrual blood. Often she was confined to her closet for days. She gnawed through her jaw during those "timeout" sessions, hoping she'd bleed to death.
She says that after she was raped by a male counselor, "the wonderful state of Florida paid for and forced me to have an abortion."
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On 2005-01-27 07:52:00, Antigen wrote:
"Fact is we start out, right out of the chute, w/ our entire collective testimony in question. Why? Cause anything after "It all started when I was a teenager in rehab" is about as impressive to most people as whatever might follow "I used to be crazy, but I'm much better now."
It takes a thousand voices to tell just one story."
:cry:
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Has anyone thought of the idea that maybe they are INDEED one in the same? Straight, INC. guys...come on now. Incorporation. The possibility that her particular time and location of involvment with this INCORPORATION might very well be under the technical title of LIFE?
As I understand it, Straight California was KIDS until they were shut up and moved to Dallas. However, every last one of those phasers will tell you they were in Straight.
Why dont you direct your suspicion where it belongs? In the fact that these places were so damn shady to begin with that who knows where the hell any of us were and when, technically?
Even better, why not ask Sammie for clarification? Or would that not be argument worthy.
[ This Message was edited by: Carmel on 2005-01-27 11:22 ]
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Agreed Carmel. It's always a possibility. I don't think it really matters in this case though. It really seems that the poster is intent on trying to start an argument or turn us against each other. Ain't gonna happen.
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On 2005-01-27 07:52:00, Antigen wrote:
Well, get used to it. Fact is we start out, right out of the chute, w/ our entire collective testimony in question. Why? Cause anything after "It all started when I was a teenager in rehab" is about as impressive to most people as whatever might follow "I used to be crazy, but I'm much better now."
Perfect example of this right here.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/01/27/churc ... index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/01/27/church.abuse.shanley.ap/index.html)
CAMBRIDGE, Massachusetts (AP) -- The lawyer for defrocked priest Paul Shanley sought to undermine the credibility of his accuser Thursday, grilling the man under cross-examination about his troubled childhood, abuse of alcohol and steroids, and gambling.
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Trying to start "infighting"?Yea,thats it!Im trying to turn yall against one another!Yea!THATS IT!
I now remember that once I talked on the phone to Sammie about LIFE program and we were talking about these abuses there.
I have constantly been badgered by other posters here that LIFE was a soft place and that I have no reason to complain because I did not go to Straight.CONSTANTLY being told that "LIFE" was a picnic compared to Straight.Talk about "infighting".
Somebody suggests a method of protest,and when I suggest that there may be a better way,or a better costume to wear(or that dressing in a black suit and bring a little coffin),or certain kind of protest sign to carry,then Im told "OH go start your OWN protest and leave mine alone.
Talk about infighting!
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I would add that I went to authorities seeking money.public assistance.They sent me to their nice counsiler and I complained that I was wrongly sent to the program and abused.So they gave me the money because I had "abused drugs as a teenager".Now there are documents in the govt file that I came seeking drug treatment.Im really pissed about this one,regardless of the big check I received!
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On 2005-01-27 16:46:00, Anonymous wrote
Somebody suggests a method of protest,and when I suggest that there may be a better way,or a better costume to wear(or that dressing in a black suit and bring a little coffin),or certain kind of protest sign to carry,then Im told "OH go start your OWN protest and leave mine alone.
Talk about infighting!"
It amazes me how skewed your perception of things is. I said do BOTH. You said you don't want to be around people doing the coffin thing so you don't want anyone to do it. What if others don't want to be around the photo thing? Do BOTH for fuck's sake!!!! Damn. No one is trying to exclude anyone. That's the whole point of saying 'hey, everyone come, do whatever you feel to memorialize those lost'. No rules, just come as you are and do what your heart tells you. What is so fucking wrong with that????
I said to start you own when you were saying that you weren't going to come if there were coffins. You're not getting that I want you to be there. I want everyone who can make it to be there. Guess that makes me a real cunt.
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Settle down, girls, before somebody loses a clump of hair.
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Umm first all If I am not mistaken and I dont think I am as I was there with Sammy.
Sammy was in Straight NOT in LIFE.
Two - Every word she said is true, I was there, I remember it well.
So unless you were there, unless you remember sammys blood or her screams you might want to umm well you know.
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um,no I dont know.
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Sammie, could you clear this one small but very important detail up for everyone? I will support you one thousand percent. I am just curious since I've never heard of the 'LIFE' program.
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On 2005-01-28 01:59:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Sammie, could you clear this one small but very important detail up for everyone? I will support you one thousand percent. I am just curious since I've never heard of the 'LIFE' program."
LIFE was formed by George Ross and Helen Petermann - both came from Straight.
http://thestraights.com/documents/st-ar ... unders.htm (http://thestraights.com/documents/st-art-incorp-76-founders.htm)
Yeah, there were some differences - there wasn't something called "marathoning" at LIFE, and I don't recall "Peanut butter diets".
I can attest to the fact that I almost peed myself a few times when I was refused access to a bathroom. I developed one hell of a bladder infection because of it, that affected my kidneys. I didn't have a period the entire time I was in there.
Antibiotics fixed the urinary problem when I got out. Docs told me the lack of periods was a result of a "stress reaction".
All returned to normal after I returned to my regularly scheduled life. How people can say that we all "got what we deserved" is beyond comprehension.
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In LIFE I (male) was not only refused toilette "privileges" upon my arrival,but also expected to piss on command with others watching me.I can tell you that after just 24 hours with not peeing it was some of the most pain I ever experienced.I was taken to Venice Hospital where I was to have a plastic tube put in me because I could not even force myself to pee.I would pay cash for the opportunity to insert a garden hose in every hole in Petermann's body and force kerosine through until it comes out of her hair folicles.I will do it for real.Id like to videotape it and show those Iraqui guys how to properly do it.
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I really don't distinguish between the Straights. I am glad to have people from all the Straights here, who cares if it was called LIFE or Safe or KHK or whatever. Five phases, etc, etc. It's the same thing. We went through the same thing. Who even cares if they eliminated something like "marathoning", that doesn't make it less heinous. Although it does sound like wherever the Venereal Man was, he pulled out all the stops on abuse, and those people as a whole had it worse.
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Dr. Koch from venice hospital,parent of greg and lisa koch also had something to do w/it. Before it closed it was in partnership w/the psych unit of venice hospital.it started in abuilding on41 that was a bar when i was a kid, then they built anew one on the other side of 41. ::deal:: ::deal::
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I think there are important distinctions. They're important for a couple of reasons. For one, it's just not right to discard other people's experience. Ppl who did time in one place and time when the atmosphere wasn't quite so manic shouldn't discard other people's perceptions, who may have spent the majority of their time on the floor or in a timeout room hurting from serious untreated injuries. And the other way around.
If we can't discuss the differences w/o a brawl then we can't understand the similarities either.
And there's a lot to be learned from the both the similarities and the differences.
If you're going to try and prove out that the people who ran the program did it all for the money (for example) you'd miss the mark and those greedy money motivated evil people would never be recognized. Demonization is not just dangerous to the scapegoat, it's dangerous to the potential victims who become illeducated about what to look out for.
That every generation of Program founders thought they were improving on the plan is an important fact. If you don't understand how that works, why you might, in good concinece, advise someone to ship their kid off to a place like Whitmore Academy or ALA or Kid Peace, believing that they're entirely different from Straight or The Seed or Kids or whatever. That would be a really big error in judgement.
Religion is just mind control.
--George Carlin, comedian
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Also the proper people need to be held accountable,kind of like the different DEATH CAMPS in different European countries managed by different people,but Hitler was held responsible.LIFE was run by Straight leaders and was started with children who came from Straight.LIFE was real bad place!
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On 2005-01-27 04:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Oh,Gee Thanks.Clears THAT ONE up (If you should like to meet in person to call me a dimwit it will be the last thing you do with your front teeth intact)."
This from an anon coward...name and address please? Ive posted mine serveral times..
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Let's make it more enticing. Offer the plane tickets for us to come knock the remaining teeth out!
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On 2005-02-07 10:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Let's make it more enticing. Offer the plane tickets for us to come knock the remaining teeth out!"
:rofl: (wait that rofl icon has too many teeth..)
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On 2005-01-27 16:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Trying to start "infighting"?Yea,thats it!Im trying to turn yall against one another!Yea!THATS IT!
I now remember that once I talked on the phone to Sammie about LIFE program and we were talking about these abuses there.
I have constantly been badgered by other posters here that LIFE was a soft place and that I have no reason to complain because I did not go to Straight.CONSTANTLY being told that "LIFE" was a picnic compared to Straight.Talk about "infighting".
Somebody suggests a method of protest,and when I suggest that there may be a better way,or a better costume to wear(or that dressing in a black suit and bring a little coffin),or certain kind of protest sign to carry,then Im told "OH go start your OWN protest and leave mine alone.
Talk about infighting!"
I was NEVER in LIFE
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On 2005-01-27 04:56:00, Anonymous wrote:
"If Sammie was in BOTH L.I.F.E. and Straight programs,why did she fail to mention the L.I.F.E. Program?If memory serves me correctly,the news story (from RickRoss.com)says the "humble panties" and "forced abortions" occored whilst she was in the L.I.F.E. Program.Thats where the problems start,one little lie or forgetting one small little detail puts her entire testimony in to question."
I was never in LIFE only STRAIGHT LIFE WAS STARTED OFF OF STRAIGHT BY MS PETE AND THER OTHERS..
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Protesting does no good...never has. The only way something is gonna get done is if someone is willing to sacrafice their freedom to commit a violent criminal act.
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The only way something is gonna get done is if someone is willing to sacrafice their freedom to commit a violent criminal act.
You mean like whippin' some druggies' asses?
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On 2005-02-18 10:51:00, Scarstruck wrote:
"Protesting does no good...never has. The only way something is gonna get done is if someone is willing to sacrafice their freedom to commit a violent criminal act.
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I tend to agree. Greenpeace protested all day long, and all that got them was losing their boat--to France! Historically, change has come through violence and force of arms, not through peaceful protest or appealing to the higher nature of the oppressors. Sure, there are some exceptions, but these merely prove the rule. From the American Revolution, the French Revolution, the Bolshevik Revolution, or WWII, force of arms and violence has been the deciding factor for changes being made. In America during the Civil War, slavery was not ended by the Emancipation Proclamation, but by the military defeat of the Confederacy. Hitler was not defeated through diplomacy, but through war. The Japanese imperialists continued fighting the Americans and British until the use of atomic weapons proved to them the futility of their situation. Many of us would like to think that mankind has evolved to a higher, more ethical state, but the truth of the matter is that shits such as those we are talking about will continue their copraphilic ways until dissuaded by force.
Today's language lesson: "Wenn Scheissen Blut von Messer spritz, denn gehet schon Alles gut!" (When the blood of shits spurts from the knife, then everything is good!)
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Oh, I disagree. Take the Civil War, for example. Neither it nor the emancipation proclemation ended slavery in the US. Slavery, as a legal institution, was already on the way out here just as it was in Europe and So. America. That war was about commerce, just like every other war in history. The northern slave holding states continued to hold slaves for up to a generation and a half after the proclemation. Meanwhile, Brazil, our major slave trading partner, continued their peaceful transformation from a slave to a yoeman labour market.
Doesn't matter that much anyway. We still have slavery, we just call it various other things (including "illicit")
My point, though, is that things do change all the time w/ or w/o violent action. The only difference between a peaceful revolution and a violent one is that, at the end of the day, there's some joker taking credit for everything at the end of the violent revolution while the people who bring about peaceful revolution are too busy enjoying the fruits of their labour to care about parades and memorials and all that bullshit.
What are politicians going to tell people when the Constitution is gone and we still have a drug problem?
--William Simpson
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i am not gonna have an opinion one way or another right now. i have been reading _A Force More Powerful_ by Peter Ackerman and Jack Duvall. they go into the histories of non-violent social change, such as the Polish unionizers strike and the response of Denmark and the Netherlands to the Nazi invasion. they have put forth the argument that when protesters got violent, the state got violent back at them, and therefore it was a self-destructive tactic.
if people wanted to have an all-out strike in the non-violent peaceful protest mode at KHK in Ohio, I would take care of things at home so that i could be there for up to a week. Numbers speak. We should fucking be there in the hundreds, and not leave. I would do it, one hundred percent. I think this is our next big thing. And/or at SAFE in Florida.
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I am serious, Ohio or Florida.