Post by: Anonymous on January 23, 2006, 05:16:00 PM
There can be some excuses made for the behavior at the time, and if I am feeling generous I will say "we'll they were only kids too" or "They had to abuse us or be abused". But when I am not feeling generous I think why didn't anyone who worked in the office, or some 7th stepper ever tell someone what was going on?
I still feel that if I saw particular staff members today I would really want to tell them to fuck off. Some of these guys were 17, 18, 19 years old. They knew what they were doing was wrong. Was it just a power trip?
Any thoughts from former staff/oldcomers? Did you really believe in the program? Or were you just afraid to speak up?
How could you guys do what you did? Why did we all go along? If everyone refused to talk in group - like a strike - there would have been no group.
I just dont understand how kids could treat kids that way...
Post by: Anonymous on January 23, 2006, 10:38:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on January 24, 2006, 02:53:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-23 14:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
How could you guys do what you did? Why did we all go along? If everyone refused to talk in group - like a strike - there would have been no group.
How would you go about planning and organizing the strike? That's the problem. It was an intense snitch culture. We all were turned against each other.
And yeah, I do think most of the staff was entirely brainwashed. I'm not sure all of them were. Some were just sadistic fucks who got off on the whole thing (Virgil) But most were.
That book I'm hawking in the banner at the top of the page answers a lot of this. It covers Fred Collins and Rich Bradburry's stories in the context of the Program's roots in Synanon, the Seed, the TOUGHLOVE hategroup and Lifton's research on thought reform techniques. It splains a lot.
Bigot: One fanatically devoted to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and intolerant of those who differ.
Webster's
Post by: Bird on a Wire on January 24, 2006, 04:55:00 PM
Some people were power-hungry, some believed in what they were doing, some BOTH, probably. From newcomer up, no one is blameless, because even if someone spent the whole time not participating, no one really could or did stick up for the fact that everything was obviously fucked up and people were getting hurt left right and centre etc If they tried they were immediately hurt/squelched themselves. I know it happened to me tons of times when I tried to intervene in host homes when people were being unfairly dealt with - and I remembering seeing it in group too - but it was just an excuse for the pack to turn on you and target you for resisting, wasn't it?
We have to think that everyone, from staff all the way through, has their own struggles about all the things that happened. I don't care how brain-washed a person is, or how much they believe in a system, I don't buy that there aren't inner twinges even in the most steadfast supporters, when they think about the humiliations they either did themselves, or saw inflicted on people, or the physical torturous experiences. No one can remove themselves that completely, I hope...
Striking or other forms of rebellion would have been feasible had there been any possibility of secrecy/communications without treachery, or ways of maintaining solidarity. The main trouble was that the strongest features of the programs were their abilities to divide, break down and conquer. Everyone felt alone and out for themselves against this mass of silent minds, each locked in their own hells, and many of us were sure if we tried to stand against it, we would fail and just be forced to stay longer, be targeted and watched more closely etc. Yeah it sucked...
Post by: Anonymous on January 25, 2006, 01:17:00 AM
when i went on.....looking back,it was only a formality.....they never really wanted me there...
i believe they had no choice,mel riddle wanted them to hire me....just about as soon as i was there they were giving me shit and trying to fire or get me to quit.....sylvia koulker and dean"vasaline ass" minstretta worked thier magic on me....wound up finally getting the staff there to "report me"...mind you,i had been finished with str8 for 3 1/2 yrs,for any thing they could!
i was a good staff member...when i decided to be a staffer,the reason was because i was told that str8 was making changes in thier "treatment....
i wanted to help....you see, i had a really long and hard program.....i thought my experiences in the "old str8",would be of some insight as to how and what to change....boy was i wrong....oh,don't get me wrong,the changes were made as far as the group was concerned,but the inter workings of staff was still like st.pete ....dog eat dog....
the kids loved me in there....i didn't believe in the bs treatment of them.....but i never stood a chance in there because the staff were giving me the "totum pole" ungreased......when i was fired
they let me say my goodbyes to the group....a riot,i kid you not,a riot erupted in the group!..
i felt like robert redford in the movie "brubaker".......and i'm sad to say that my situation ended the same way too....on my way out ,sylvia koulker said to me if i ever set foot on the premises again,they would have me arrested!.....i wasn't even allowed to go to 7 step meetings.....i had no support group,was many miles from my home area and it really disalutioned me......that would wind up being the begining of my fall or downward spiral into my own little hell....a little over a year later i wound up on the streets of boston...not wanting to live or die.....i'm very lucky to be alive...
not all staff were assholes....at least i wasn't
but i was a very unusual situation.....most staff were right off thier phases and onto staff...i wasn't! when i think about it,thats the reason i was fired! i wasn't controllable.....i had been done for a long time! i also gave those kids hope...i was also proof there was life after str8!
that was somthing the staff there didn't want me there because of that!....basically,they wasted my time and enevitably my life....it took a long time to recover...i never fully did though.....hippie
Post by: Anonymous on January 25, 2006, 09:51:00 AM
Quote
and dean"vasaline ass" minstretta worked thier magic on me..
:rofl: :rofl:
Post by: Anonymous on January 25, 2006, 02:59:00 PM
There is a Straightstuff group in msn groups - now a lot of posts but if you join there are about 30 photos - not of stoughton but this kid made it all the way through and he posts his MI, and actually has a photo of him holding a newcomer by the belt, and the Straight Songbook. Worth a look, I think.
To the staffer from Stoughton - when were you in? If you don't mind. Would like to see if we remember you....
Thanks again...
Post by: Anonymous on January 25, 2006, 08:24:00 PM
they were all lying betraying assholes who whiffed dean "vasaline ass" minstretta's ass...what happened to me really affected my life big time! i went up there because i was told things in the "program" were changing for the better....in group they did....{compared to my "tenure" in there,in st pete,it was totally different for the better,but not good enough}.....but the way staff was run was just like being in st pete on my phases again!...that never got fixed! and my status as a scapegoat didn't either! shit i had been done with my "program " 3 1/2 yrs when i went up there....i didn't expect to be treated so poorly!.....man,i had a really bad time on my phases in st pete{19 1/2 months in st pete},and i got more minstretta "treatment" up there!the fucked up part about that was dean only had 3 months MORE sobriety than me! i was his f-ing foster brother for 2 days! the worst part was i volunteered for it! i knew it would be a mistake,but my mom said if i didn't go up there,i was out of the house,soooo off i went.....a month and a half or so later they finally broke my spirit{somthing miller newton couldn't even do},i left very heart broken.....as i said earlier,i loved helping you all,i really believed i would/could make a difference up there! i must've,because in all my yrs involved in str8 I NEVER SAW THE GROUP REBELL BECAUSE A STAFF MEMBER was getting fired/leaving etc......i want to thank you stoughten kids for that! it was the best memorey i have of my mistake to go up there....to the staff members that were part of that bullshit....
fuck you.....you know who you are! by the way,i'm saying f-you for greg mc donald too.....he and john parillo got fired with me......they hung out with me and weren't part of the witch hunt that happened to me! i guess i should say that greg isn't with us anymore....he died on / in an accident later that year or early in 87.....hippie
Post by: teachback on January 25, 2006, 08:58:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 25, 2006, 09:20:00 PM
now....good place for him.....anyways,yes that whole story is as true as it can be.....hippie
Post by: teachback on January 25, 2006, 09:24:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 25, 2006, 10:55:00 PM
those chicken shit m.fers.......meanwhile,they played cards with me,had me fix thier cars for them,pay rent etc etc all the while knowing they were screwing me....just like on the phases.....
i had been nothing but a friend to them.....when the shit hit the fan,and i found out what happened....they ducked and ran! avoiding me when ever possible!.....after that,i went out to new hampshire,bought a bong,a toke master bong,and took bong hits of TOBACCO in front of them! went to gratful dead shows as much as poss.....played music in harvard square,grew my hair long,wore whatever i could that was druggie....in essense,i fucked with thier lives as much as i could!....
oh,dean would come over to the apt.,but he wouldn't say anything to me! he wouldn't even look me in the eyes,except to say "hi".....i wouldn't even say anything back to him...it was as if he wasn't there! the best part was i did all that shit sober....lol......i showed them how stupid str8's regulations were!......but honestly,i was so bitter....i wanted to hurt one or all of them....i moved out eventually....thats some of it off the top of my head....hip
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 25, 2006, 11:00:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 25, 2006, 11:23:00 PM
and said you're such a great guy paul.....how does it feel to see the effects of fucking with somones life?.......all my friends were looking at him and saying"is this one of the fuckers who screwed w/you in that f-ed up place?"....he got out of there as quick as he could......it was a good thing too.....i really wanted to tear his face off!...hippie
Post by: teachback on January 25, 2006, 11:42:00 PM
Quote
.thats nothing....i took out one of thems tranmission plug too.....his brand new car needed a tranny in a hurry.....i put itching powder in thier beds....made sure thier girlfriends didn't want to be around....
:nworthy: :nworthy:
Post by: Anonymous on January 31, 2006, 11:08:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 02, 2006, 09:22:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 02, 2006, 10:26:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 02, 2006, 01:27:00 PM
Quote
Some of the things that are being said about people on this thread are just simply false.
For instance... :question:
Post by: A. Noid on February 02, 2006, 02:57:00 PM
Truth does not have to be accepted on faith. Scientists do not hold hands every Sunday, singing, "Yes gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! Amen.
--Dan Barker, former evangelist and author
Post by: Antigen on February 02, 2006, 07:04:00 PM
A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices.
-- William James
Post by: A. Noid on February 02, 2006, 08:53:00 PM
I was 17. Smart but still too naive. I could not believe I was being held there. I've always had a good intuition-I just knew there was something really wrong about the place-something NASTY! It has taken me a while to figure out the singing was regression,and the loop and the sex raps were really covert sex abuse. I got beat up a number of times for resisting. It never occured to me to make up anything :skull:
For something that has spread with all the forethought of kudzu, the Internet isn't half bad."[ This Message was edited by: nottyTx on 2006-02-02 18:14 ]
-- Newsweek, 2/27/95
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 02, 2006, 09:08:00 PM
Yo nottyTx welcome. I was in $tr8 but your program sounds real similliar. Solidarity! :skull:
Post by: A. Noid on February 02, 2006, 09:25:00 PM
[ This Message was edited by: nottyTx on 2006-02-02 18:27 ]
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 02, 2006, 09:34:00 PM
Post by: A. Noid on February 02, 2006, 10:13:00 PM
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
--John Adams
Post by: Anonymous on February 03, 2006, 01:19:00 AM
Post by: Antigen on February 03, 2006, 10:46:00 PM
Never in the history of any nation has an education system been so on the point of disintegration and decay as the education system in this country...We know that education in this country is as bad as it can be. We know that it is old-fashioned, irrelevant, and not meaningful.
--U.S. Senator Abraham A. Ribicoff, 1970
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 05:33:00 AM
that was a different person.....i was on acid in the "holyoak square" near the subway in cambridge mass> harvard square....the san francisco of the east coast!i was with david yates a "cop - out"
from str8 stoughton.....my friends were all there asking me if this was one of the f-ers at that f-ing place i was in......none of what i wrote was false....lol....yeah right! like i'd make up a crazy story like that!who are you?.....don't even have a name......i just want to let everyone know that that was 20+ yrs ago......what i said i would say to thier face and they know it! what happened to me up there by those kiss asses was a witch hunt....i've got nothing to hide,i paid my dues in that f-ing place!....i wrote this last posting because i didn't want you guys to think they scared me or that i really was lying...more than that,i'm looking for the ppl now who would collaborate my story.....when i find them , i'll let them write too....hippie
....HEY STARRY{Awww,dude you're killing me!}that was funny as shit...i still laugh at that posting when i see it! ::rocker:: i can just see you saying that....lol
Post by: flygirl on February 04, 2006, 09:00:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 09:29:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 03:10:00 PM
have been since before str8!where in the "rule book" does it state that i can't be mad for the crap that happened to me in that place?....yes i am mad....
mad as hell at a lot of shit that happened to me during and after str8.....i've never done a mean thing to anybody that didn't have it coming....
6 months ago,after keeping my chin up and trying to move on after all these yrs,i came to realise just how much crap i was "brainwashed" into accepting....how much unnessary crap was done to me while i was involved in there....how much crap f-ed soooo many other ppl in there before or after my own "tenure" in that dispicable place! i didn't deserve the crap stoughton str8 did to me..
shit if they had said don't come up,that would've been ok.....but the crap they did to me up there was an all time low to me......it messed my "brainwashed head" up really bad.....after that,all the illusions that that place was a good place just simply disappeared.....oh,i know,AA/str8 would say that i didn't "work my program",thats why i didn't stay "sober".....no,in my case that just simply not true.....i lost my belief in that place...
dude or sister,{not sure which}i wasn't even allowed to go to the 7 step meetings....."sylvia" said i'd be arrested if i ever stepped foot on the premises....i have a lot of very bitter,unresolved feelings about what happened to me up there....it was totally unnessesary to do to me...it almost killed me man.....those ppl i mentioned were extremly involved in that witch hunt....whiffed deanie beanies ass for approval and screwed me over....lol...how would you have felt in my shoes? i trusted them! they were my roommates!i tried to just forget what happened to me during and after str8,hell,i didn't even talk
about str8 for 18+ yrs,but it kept on haunting me.....and still affects me daily in life....one
thing i have found out on this or the other sites,is that i'm not alone.....look...read...and
you'll see that i'm right.....i'll tell you this about me,if you were broke down on the side of the road,i'd be the one to help you....rain,snow
etc....it wouldn't matter!i was like that before i went into str8,i was like that after str8,if
what happened to me under the Miller newton experience wasnt enough,stoughton had to do a shitty thing like that to me?i've never forgotten what happened to me up there...it's as if it was yesterday man.....maybe i shouldn't have mentioned names,you might be right....but you'll never see anything that says i was part of f-ing anyone up in there....you'll never hear that i took part in a deliberate scheme to f- somone up in there,you'll never hear ANY of my NEW COMERS SAY THAT I WAS A BRUTAL,MIND F_ING PERSON TO ANY OF THEM! in st pete,i was percieved as "weak" because i never just yelled ,screamed and cussed anyone out just to kiss staffs ass....i wanted to help ppl,i was smart enough to know that kind of approach was stupid.....it used to piss jim sailor off that my approach actually worked with a lot of ppl i did confront.....in fact,when i 7 stepped...many ppl that graduated after me,would thank me for being sincere to them!they became some of my best friends later......i can call ANY
of them and i won't get the phone slammed in my ear!......well,if you want,please send me a private e-mail.....shit, you might find out i'm not that bad a person after all.....hippie
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 03:26:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 03:27:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 04:50:00 PM
i made a promise to my new comers,the night i 7 stepped,that i would keep coming in to see how they were doing....you see,jim sailor{if you were in st pete,you knew him on your phases/as a staff member}was an asshole to so many ppl,especially to
3 of my 10 newcomers in V.A....one of them , he torured so bad,was so tramatised,that he just couldn't move on....he had been on 1st phase his entire time in st.pete,then more of the same in V.A.! NO ONE wanted to take him home with them
because they were afraid that they'd get set back
for not being able to get him moving along on his"program"....i was doing somthing at the time and since i didn't have hearing worth a shit,i couldn't understand what was going on.....when i was done i walked back over to the 5th phase side of group and asked what was up.....another 5th phaser told me...jim was tearing into this guy pretty bad and blaming the group for this newcomers lack of progress....i thought "this is funny,i thought YOU were the staff member JIM!""isn't it your JOB to help him,not ours"....
then i raised my hand...jim looked at me and said "what?!" i said "i'll take him!"in my head i said to myself"you m-fer....jim was real bad on me too....2 times to the "timeout room" with jim for "therapy" at its best....the first week there he took me to the timeout room twice....the second time he pushed me so hard i couldn't get up right away....then he left me in the dark with the lights out and the door shut the rest of the day....
i saw taking this newcomer as a way to show up the incompetance of the staff......especially him dean minstreta and joey glaze......and thats just what i did...! this newcomer,kevin grimes,when i got him,was being treated like an animal!jim had him on P.B.J's! only at his foster home he had to eat them standing on his knees!....the more i talked to him{kevin}on the way home that 1st night, the more i could see that he had been treated extremly shitty by all the oldcomers he had had...when we got to my house we all sat down to eat...except kevin....he started to kneel down.....i said "w.t.f. is this?"then he told me about his "list" of consequences...i promtly grabed a pillow and told him to use it....one of my other newcomers said"i don't feel good about this!staff didn't say he could have a pillow!"i looked at him and said"did you hear staff say he couldn't have a pillow?"...of course "no" was the answer to that....then i looked at all of my newcomers and said "i'll never treat any of you like an animal!NEVER!"oh,i had to give kevin a pbj
sandwich.....but i let him make it,and i gave him a half a loaf of PITA BREAD TO MAKE IT WITH!....not a tiny 2 slices of regular bread...
i told kevin and the rest of my newcomers that they would go home from my house.....needless to say a month later kevin did just that!...in fact 7 - 10 of my NEWC's graduated after leaving my house as NEWC's!i'm very proud of that....considering the statistics i have read online as to how many ppl really graduated from that place!
kevins going "home" baffled jim sailor.....one night he stopped in front of me while i was in line and said"i don't know what you did to move him along,but i have to say whatever you did,it works!"i thought to myself,"i treated him like a human being jim...." it was then that my newcomers talked me into staff traing or "p.t."..
but i never became a staff member...i guess they didn't think i was "asshole" enough for them....
as i said in the begining,i kept my promise and saw my newc's through thier "hell time"! i gave them somthing to look forward to....hope,life after str8 and they knew i was thier friend,not just another oldcomer.....after fred collins sued str8,str8 had to make changes,miller left and things got way better than when you and i were in there....{thats an honest opinion ...i have somthing to compare this with! that does not imply that str8 wasn't still a really hard f-ing place to be in,or that it was a "soft parade"} i thought that i could make a difference and truly help the ppl in there like i did with my newc's!
since school was f-ed up and all i had was a ged,
i looked at str8 as an opportunity to be a counselor.....that it would give me a foundation towards a career helping ppl.....i should've known
better.....thats my fault! but like i said, my methods helped ppl.....the group loved me....and in all my yrs involved with str8,i never saw the group out 'n out rebell when a staffer was fired and saying thier goodbyes,but it happened for me! again thankyou stoughton kids...that was the only good memory i had from my staff experience! i am so sorry this was such a long letter....i hope i answered all your thoughts and questions!...hippie
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 04:54:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 05:06:00 PM
I can't believe you are so pleased with yourself for MAKING a newc COMPY, after they had already had a natural response not to. Here's a cookie, would you like some kool-aide with that also?
Maybe I am reading you wrong here, but if you are actually cheering yourself on for this, I'da fucked you up back then =)
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 05:08:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 05:09:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 05:15:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 05:17:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 06:00:00 PM
i don't do powders,chemicals,pills etc.....basically i don't do anything "man made".
i have a saying"nothing good can come out of somthing bad!"....mushrooms or shrooms...grow off cow shit....if it wasn't anygood in a cow,how can it be good for me?lol...seriously....i didn't quit smoking weed,it just kind of quit me.....i really havn't smoked in 6 months!by that,i mean that i have smoked here and there,but 4-5 puffs every 2 weeks?i don't consider that smoking weed.i mean it is,but its more like somone like my brothers who have a beer or two every now and then...more importantly,its not somthing i try control or constantly keep in check....i guess i'm lucky.....hippie
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 06:50:00 PM
that i would be almost "shooting up" if i ever tried....you know the deal...as far as covers,i play songs that you'll never see a band do....not
because they suck and nobody wants to do them
either,just that they take a long time to get right and they're so legendary in the history of rock music,that a lot of bands/musicians won't do them!basically thier the kind of songs,if you cover them,it has to be done good or don't do them at all!i never liked doing anything everyone else was doing......for instance i play "a day in the life""i am the walrus""strawberryfields forever"
by the legendary beatles....i do led zepplin{been told i do stairway to heaven better than robert plant,i don't know about that,but thats what i'm told}i do pink floyd....the whole medley in the begining of "dark side of the moon"..."shine on you crazy diamonds""wish you were there"......
not only that i do nirvana tunes too,stp,soundgarden{blackhole sun is an awsome tune},the smashing pumpkins...i do neil young a lot,.....you know what the craziest thing is?
i do all of these songs accoustic!a trade off from my "harvard square days" after str8,i played as a street musician......i learned how to sing while i was in str8....everytime i asked if i could sing a song to the group,i was singing 1 of those stupid songs we had to sing,for practice!
right under those f-ers noses i was teaching myself to sing......i never wavered from my goal as a kid.....its a shame though....i didn't believe i could do it professionally for a long time after str8...so i really didn't give it a real try till i lived up here in pa....even as a street musician,i didn't play much...not like i do today.....20 yrs after str8,i was so messed up from all the b.s. that happened in there that i was/am seeing professional help.i should've been doing that yrs ago,but after what we all went through,that was the last thing i wanted to do!...they had me on meds,but i just wasn't fully functional.....while i was seeing a counselor,taking meds,i got talked into playing music again{i had quit for 3 yrs}
little by little it became my medicine!when i'm not playing,if i don't have somthing going,i get real f-ed up! i have to do it....it makes me a better person to be around.....and it keeps me from honestly going crazy.....i don't take the meds anymore....just music.....if you read these postings on this site,you'll see that i put up a concert every yrs called the "gigaroo"....everyone is welcome!its like a mini woodstock! camping is free and its only 15 per,or 25 for couples.....come to it..i promise you'll like it!...hippie
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 06:53:00 PM
have a good laugh...hip
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 06:54:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 07:03:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 08:02:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 08:30:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-04 14:06:00, Anonymous wrote:
"It's a good thing you were not my old commer. I would have had to do some serious damage control. I was pleased my oldcommer just left me alone, and let me choose to "work" or not "work" the program. I can't half blame her though, she saw me fight back all day to those who fucking assulted me, by touching me in the slightest ways. Needless to say, no matter the lie they told us all, about being there shorter time if you work the program, I got out A Whole lot faster than most. I won=) I won=) No hyped up, selfish, image-belief pushing, lieing, manipulating olcommer ever made me write an MI=) Or do any dam thing. And for that, I respected them enough to not cause any violence at their homes. It was like an unspoken agreement. But I had a few PoS oldcommers, and I made sure their home was disrupted, so I could move to another one, who had more respect for humanity.
I can't believe you are so pleased with yourself for MAKING a newc COMPY, after they had already had a natural response not to. Here's a cookie, would you like some kool-aide with that also?
Maybe I am reading you wrong here, but if you are actually cheering yourself on for this, I'da fucked you up back then =)"
Question: WHO was this post directed toward? :question:
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 08:41:00 PM
steve was so stuck on her,i never really saw much of him after he 7 stepped...don't know what or where he went off to.....we used to skip school
and trip smoke...you name it!...harvard square was/is one of the coolest places on this side of the country.....i had a lot of good friends up there.....i went back there about 8-10 yrs ago...
many of them are dead now....the hippie scene died out up there....it really wasn't the same.
i used to sleep in the commons with all the freaks
every now and then i'd run into somone from str8
david yates and i hung out and played music there
and only god knows what happened to him!i ran into a girl that was on staff trainee with me at the sqare that joined the chrisnas....as if one cult wasn't enough.....good lord! hippie
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 11:10:00 PM
at first i was insulted because i though i explained everthing the best i could....then its like "you're lucky i wasn't your newcomer blah blah blah blah....?...unless they mean anyone that was an oldcomer was an asshole....whatever...can't lose any sleep over that kind of hobblecocky bullshit...hippie
Post by: Anonymous on February 04, 2006, 11:17:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on February 05, 2006, 12:18:00 AM
Every sensible man, every honorable man, must hold the Christian sect in horror.
--Francois Marie Arouet "Voltaire", French author and playwright
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 01:04:00 AM
don't be offended, I harbor no ill feelings, anymore. Except to the adults who started it all, and the specific people who held me down every day and spit on me , etc.. Those people, I loathe/
I just dont have a concept of "working the program" even to just get by. so it makes me kinda snicker..I snickered out load that time, sorry =)
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 04:02:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 08:50:00 AM
Standing at the back of Group, wearing a tie-die under your Army jacket was a nice touch too. Can't imagine why that might have been frowned upon. Oh yeah, the suspected drug use probably didn't help too much toward your staff tenure either.
Looks like your spelling, grammar, and use of punctuation is about the same now as it was twenty years ago, too. Well done.
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 11:02:00 AM
Post by: funster on February 05, 2006, 11:06:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 11:16:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-05 08:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Is this paul or pete? I visited the apt you guys had there."
neither. nor is it Mike, and certainly not Matt, as his rose colored glasses are firmly in place. no, it's merely an amused observer who spent a lot of time hearing about what a tool Matt was at the time.
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 11:19:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 11:40:00 AM
Post by: Antigen on February 05, 2006, 12:09:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-05 05:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
Please don't dilute yourself ...
Looks like your spelling, grammar, ...
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Guard with jealous attention the public Liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that Jewel. Unfortunately, Nothing will Preserve it but downright Force. Whenever you Give Up that Force, you are ruined.....The Great Object is that every man be armed.....Everyone who is able may have a gun.
- Patrick Henry
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 12:23:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-02 10:27:00, Anonymous wrote:
"QuoteSome of the things that are being said about people on this thread are just simply false.
For instance... :question: "
Well, for one, Dean Mistretta never used vaseline on his ass, he liked it rough and dry......
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 01:36:00 PM
too....but its still hard to play by myself....i guess that and my being a stubborn ass hole....
but its all good....oh yeah,my friend is going to down load some of my cd on one of these sites....i don't know which one,but i'll ask ginger if its ok...hey ginger! is it oh to do?...lol....i'm not ignoring you ginger,i don't have you on my i.m. list...one day it just disappeared?...i don't know much about this comp.stuff,so i don't know how to fix it....hip
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 01:59:00 PM
there was a lot of ass whiffing and more importantly,if they hadn't told me to come up{for nothing}nothing of what i said or wrote would've happened mike or paul or whoever....hey original poster! this is a real staff guy who wrote this posting i am answering right now....if any of you guys want,ask them the questions you've always wanted to ask.....after all,they're the "experts"
they were on staff....senior staff at that if my memory serves me correctly.....by the time i couldn't pay the rent,mike,my brain was on "self destruct" man.....i didn't see any of you so-called caring individuals there trying to help me out.....i was so full of anger....you'll never know.....i should've gone home,but the director of str8 up there got me a "job" babysitting kids at a mental health place....after the f-ing witch hunt,it was only a matter of time for me....yes,i was brain washed into believing i could do a lot of good up there....suspected drug use?...jolt cola?...thats the suspected DRUG USE you're talking about! yeah everybody,JOLT COLA ...i told the group NOT to drink that pop because it was making me feel jumpy...some asshole REPORTED me as POSSIBLY USING DRUGS!!!!! JOLT COLA....can you believe it?.....here's a jolt for you too....
possible drug use....good lord you still believe all that shit?....after you guys went around and "reported" me to dean"no vasaline" minstretta,ostrasized me from the 7 steppers,and basically "smoked my brain".....i did wind up useing drugs for awhile....but i'm still standing...and its no thanks to the shit that happened to me up there....suspected drug use....
give me a fucking break....hippie
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 02:24:00 PM
funny how you're anonymous...i can tell by the way you are writing,that you still support that place.....rose colored glasses?...lol....is that what color they are?...i never knew that....nice to see that str8 lingo still being used....sorry
i didn't hold up to your standards.....not that i give a crap what you think....if that shit witch hunt had been done to you 700+ miles from home,with others,you thought were friends,how would you have felt?what would you have done? would you still be like you are to me right now?
if you have to be an asshole to me,then you really didn't know me....i was a happy go lucky guy dude,that had a very bad set of circumstances done to him....whether i reacted wrong or not i don't know....but i do know the outcome of it was bad on me....there's so much more i could say,but i won't....you keep believing those lies man...hip
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 02:45:00 PM
I no longer support Straight, but I do support those who you left holding the financial bag. You were a poser then, you're a poser now.
Give it a rest. We know the truth.
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 03:09:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 03:11:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 03:11:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 03:37:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 05:22:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on February 05, 2006, 06:13:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-05 10:36:00, stillahippie564 wrote:
....oh yeah,my friend is going to down load some of my cd on one of these sites....i don't know which one,but i'll ask ginger if its ok...hey ginger! is it ok to do?...lol....
The way I see it, you owe me, damn it! Drove all that way and all and got no show. Not that we didn't enjoy the conversation over a game of cut throat or that we weren't really honored to be invited into your more familiar haunt. We were and are. But all this talk about Who covers and some of our favorite old Beatles songs, well it's got me craving to actually hear it.
Seriously, I'd be pleased as punch to help you get some sounds up.
Oh, and I still haven't installed Yahoo IM yet. That's prolly why I don't show on your list. Maybe I'll go and do that now.
The present system is among the most impractical imaginable, if the facilitation of learning is your aim.
--Neil Postman and Charles Weingartner
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 06:39:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 06:46:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 06:47:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-05 11:45:00, Anonymous wrote:He is a poser ass kid..
"Oh Matt, so wrong on so many levels.
I no longer support Straight, but I do support those who you left holding the financial bag. You were a poser then, you're a poser now.
Give it a rest. We know the truth.
"
Post by: Antigen on February 05, 2006, 06:49:00 PM
A government resting on the minority is an aristocracy, not a Republic, and could not be safe with a numerical and physical force against it, without a standing army, an enslaved press and a disarmed populace.
James Madison, The Federalist No. 46
Post by: Anonymous on February 05, 2006, 07:00:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on February 05, 2006, 07:09:00 PM
The worst government is the most moral. One composed of cynics
is often very tolerant and human. But when fanatics are on top,
there is no limit to oppression.
--H.L. Mencken
Post by: Froderik on February 05, 2006, 10:10:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-05 14:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Boy i wish i could use drugs. no weed to watch the seahawks beat the fuck out of the steelers. seven points will be the win. "
::crybaby:: ::crybaby:: ::unhappy:: ::unhappy:: ::both:: ::both::
Post by: Lost_In_Translation on February 06, 2006, 04:00:00 PM
Glad to know you're still alive, and doing so "well". Glad to see you've matured and moved on. I hadn't given your costly self-implosion much thought recently, until some fellow forum members sent your rant my way. I started to write about all the disturbing and innapropriate crap that you did, but erased it, simply because all that nonsense belongs in the past. However, If you want to sling some shit about people you used to call friends, I can oblige.
I hope you've managed to get some counseling or some other help since 1986, but it doesn't sound like it. Straight might have had control of you for a while, but what you've done for the past twenty years, well, you own that.
I guess you must have really been traumatized by that place. First as a phaser, then as a seven-stepper, and eventually as an evil-battling staff member. Thank God for selfless, courageous and principled people like you who fought "the man" by becoming the man. No hipocracy in your story. Let's recap your posts in a more honest light:
You begged to be a staff member! You lacked the courage to ask on your own, so you had your mother kiss Mel Riddle's ass for you. The Springfield folks didn?t want to hire you, so they asked us and we said OK. They told you the only opening available was in Boston. They hoped you'd drop it, seeing as how you'd never actually held a full time job or lived away from home except while in St. Pete, but you took the position, promising to get a haircut and attempt some mimimal level of professional conduct when in the building. Unfortunately, you couldn't do it. Getting up on time, paying your bills, cleaning, laundry and cooking were not skills you had learned while living with your parents through your mid-twenties.
If you remember something I did, or someone else did that still bothers you, strap on your courage and look them up. Or maybe you should have your mom call.
You wanted to be "Straight's hippie messiah". Problem was, in 1986 you were a self important fraud. Once anyone got to know you, they were on to you. You lied so much and so often to so many, that we all stopped believing everything you said. Your post makes it sound like we suddenly all betrayed you. That's a lie. It took months for you to borrow, steal and screw over every person you came in contact with, inside straight, AA or outside. We asked you to move out after two jobless months because you were increasingly erratic and disturbed. You had transitioned from being a loopy, but harmless goof-off to a rightous, ranting exploiter of newly sober young people. You messed with a lot of people's minds, both in Straight and AA. Whining about your unfair firing and rejection by your friends in this forum dishonors you, and the memories of the dead friends whose funerals we have attended since.
I don't remember any rebellion when you left. You were only on staff five weeks. How many days did you actually work? Maybe 25? The Stoughton group only had 70-80 people then, and 60% were on higher phases. How many did you say good-bye to just before the "riot"? Couldn't have been more than 35-40 tops. It wasn't the epic saga of selfless hippy counseler vs. evil co-workers you'd like it re-remember it as.
I can't recall you ever leading a rap session solo, but you might have. We kept pairing you up with someone to keep you from blabbering on for 10 minutes at a time about your "Jerry Garcia connection", or some other "I'm so cool" topic while unimpressed newcomers picked thier fingernails. Your fake hippie transparency was as clear to them as it was to us. I still live here, don't kid yourself.
Blame me that you were fired. I spoke to Jim Murray and Sylvia Kolker personally about my concerns. I wanted to help my friend. See, I was cool with you letting your freak flag fly, but I was not cool with you carelessly messing with people's minds. Seriously, you were way more innapropriate around newcomers, especially young girls, than some ?true believers?.
I do remember feeling sorry that you were fired. I stopped feeling sorry for you though, the moment you told me you got revenge by urinating in that person's office. I hope you don't work in fast food.
I didn't believe you were using your bong for tobacco. I thought you were getting high. In my apartment, that you were living in, rent free. While you went to AA meetings and worked in a drug rehab with young kids.
Now that I know it was all a well crafted scheme of ultimate revenge, and not a stupid series of incredibly selfish, immature, irresponsible, self-destructive errors, I guess I should be upset all over again, right? Hardly.
I paid your debts because you used my word and my name to run up those bills and screw those people. It's funny now. We've laughed about it. Mike Kirsch and I were talking about you as we drove the Autobahn in his BMW 7 series. We were on our way to an International Software Conference that the company I own produced in Cologne.
I realized a long time ago that your behavior was not something I needed to understand or justify. When you called to apologize a year after you took off, I told you I forgave you, and the best revenge you could have on Straight was creating a life that is well-lived. I hope you are doing well, and that the badly spelled rant you posted here is not an indication of your current situation.
It was a messed up place, no question. However, you did little or nothing to make it better. In fact, you made it worse.
See, we all did stuff we weren't proud of while we were there. I know I did, and I've said so on these forums. After 20+ years, how dare you keep whining "not me, I'm still a victim, no guilt on me". There's no apology in these forum pages from you. Stop deceiving yourself. It's cowardly and shameful. Stop writing homophobic nonsense like a vengeful skinhead teenager. You're over 40 years old. If you have any long hair left, it?s gray and falling out. It was falling out in ?86, same as me.
Over the years I've met staffers, phasers, cop-outs and siblings. I?ve been to weddings, baptisms, and funerals. We share a common experience born of personal tragedy that most of us have overcome. Only a limited few remain defined by that single time of their lives. It's almost like what combat vets share. We have a common language and experiences that outsiders can only imagine. I'm still sober, and don't care whether anyone on these forums is or not. I was over 18 when I signed myself in, so any baggage I carry is mine and I own it. I remember a thousand faces, almost all of them are from 20 years ago. I know what about a dozen people are up to. My nightmares have stopped, and the time for apologies is long over. I hope those of us that made it through continue to use these forums as a way to connect, heal and move on, not like a Beavis and Butt-head revenge rant. But hey, it?s your program.
Regards,
Paul Meyer
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2006, 05:19:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2006, 05:36:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 06, 2006, 06:32:00 PM
Be careful! Wallygator bites! :wave:
Post by: teachback on February 07, 2006, 12:02:00 AM
Quote
Stop writing homophobic nonsense like a vengeful skinhead teenager.
Sorry, but I don't think that hippie was being "homophobic" when he was referring to Dean Mistretta...Dean is as queer as a 3 dollar bill, and he probably manifested this at times back then as well...wouldn't be at all surprised..
Post by: teachback on February 07, 2006, 12:20:00 AM
Quote
Over the years I've met staffers, phasersNot to harp on semantics, but you sound pretty fuckin' "program" here...
Quote
tragedy that most of us have overcome. Only a limited few remain defined by that single time of their lives.Says who? What makes you think that you know enough to say that? Where do you get your stats?
Quote
I was over 18 when I signed myself in, so any baggage I carry is mine and I own it.Well unfortunately many of us didn't sign ourselves in, Paul...most of us were under 18, and some of us didn't even use drugs! (I'm not one of them.)
Quote
I know what about a dozen people are up to.Hence your aforementioned 'stats'...thought so.
Quote
I hope those of us that made it through continue to use these forums as a way to connect, heal and move on, not like a Beavis and Butt-head revenge rant.It doesn't really matter what you hope, does it?
Quote
But hey, it?s your program.
I guess that was supposed to be funny..? :roll:
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 07, 2006, 01:17:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2006, 01:29:00 AM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 07, 2006, 02:00:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2006, 02:09:00 AM
(there's no 's' at the end of barbara's last name either)
Post by: Lost_In_Translation on February 07, 2006, 02:15:00 AM
I guess if you had to guess which of them was gay in 1986, it wouldn't have been Dean. By '89 though...
In any case, I make no claim to the moral high ground. I don't have any stats. I've heard rumors about a lot of people, but don't trust what I don't know for certain. Hard to Trust, know what I mean?
Why do some posters to these forums seek to spew hate and venom about people they didn't actually have any personal knowledge of? It's gets a bit "urban legend" at times. If you were in VA from '85 to '87, we might have known each other, but I doubt you actually met or knew hippie or Dean. You might have seen them standing in back, or heard them speak. If so, let's hear it.
Tell me about your personal experience of these two people. It's been 20 years, I can't possibly trust my own memory.
I sound "program" to you? No offense or harping semantics intended, those words simply seemed more appropriate than Vile Oppressors, innocent victims, Servants of the Beast, "ass sniffers" etc. I've seen them used in these forums, but I don't.
Take sides before you know who someone posting anonymously actually is. Believe them, if you want. Just don't call them friend, loan them money or leave them alone with small children.
I was friends with both of them. We all believed. We drifted apart as we each woke up and freaked out in our own ways. Our friendship was only based on having Straight in common. How else could it have turned out?
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2006, 02:20:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2006, 02:21:00 AM
Quote
but I doubt you actually met or knew hippie or Dean.
Why would you doubt that??
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2006, 02:22:00 AM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 07, 2006, 02:41:00 AM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 07, 2006, 02:47:00 AM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 07, 2006, 02:55:00 AM
Post by: Nonconformistlaw on February 07, 2006, 07:56:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-06 23:15:00, Paul_Meyer wrote:
Why do some posters to these forums seek to spew hate and venom about people they didn't actually have any personal knowledge of? It's gets a bit "urban legend" at times."
A bit off topic on my part....but I could not let this comment go without a response.....
Some of us 'spew' hate and venom about people we DO have personal knowledge about, or rant anger about wrongs/crimes committed against us by Straight. YES I SAID CRIMES!
I was not in VA, but was in cincy....I have ranted as you describe cause I have every right to be angry.....I was one who never did drugs and was kidnapped by Straight....yes I said kidnapped.....my experience is hardly an 'urban legend,' but rather its my reality. You assume that we 'spew' hate and venom about things or people we knew nothing about. This is NOT the case. I think you should stop to consider that we have damn good reason for our angry rants which we DO have personal knowledge about. This is true of VA, Cincy, St. Pete, etc....all straight survivors.
Post by: teachback on February 07, 2006, 08:47:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-06 23:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quotebut I doubt you actually met or knew hippie or Dean.
Why would you doubt that?? "
Again, why would you doubt this? I knew Dean. He was on staff for the entire time that I was in VA str8. He was one of the most (if not THE most) abusive "staffer" to ever set foot in that place. I was there from late 1982 to 1985. Ask anyone who was in there then & they'll tell you the same thing about him. There is no 'urban legend' in this case, Paul. He deserves every bit of hatred and venom that gets spewed from people here, and then some. That guy was a complete prick to just about everyone, unless they happened to be one of "Dean's boys." :lol: That is, guys that he favored...
Post by: teachback on February 07, 2006, 09:10:00 AM
Quote
I sound "program" to you? No offense or harping semantics intended, those words simply seemed more appropriate than Vile Oppressors, innocent victims, Servants of the Beast, "ass sniffers" etc. I've seen them used in these forums, but I don't.
I will say that I'm sorry for busting your balls here. No, I wouldn't want or expect you to go to that extreme..it's just that hearing words like "phaser" flow so easily off the tongue makes me cringe a little bit..anyway, carry on..
Post by: Antigen on February 07, 2006, 11:43:00 AM
See, there are holes in your story. You're stating as fact things you couldn't possibly know. You do sound like you're still in the Program and lovin' it! ::puke::
Lighthouses are more helpful then churches.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
Post by: Lost_In_Translation on February 07, 2006, 01:11:00 PM
Sorry Man, but I wasn't talking to you.
Frank D. had a legitimate post, and deserved a response.
Hippie knows me. I read his posts and responded to him. I don't come here often, and didn't realize that responding with a private message was an option. Hippie, check your PM. What you said was low, and lies. You could have said terrible stuff about me that was true, but your lies made you look what, cooler? More in control? For who? You've got my number and e-mail. I'm still waiting for your call.
Starry, If I want you to "confront me", let me know who you are. If I owe you a personal amends, you'll get it. That's "program" talk - steps Eight and Nine.
We confessed to the group, not the person we harmed. I don't confess to the group anymore.
They didn't have steps 8-12, remember? Why not? I think it was changed to create a perverse sort of tribe. Unity by mutual shame. Tribalism. Us vs. Them. Insiders vs. Outsiders. It's called groupthink, herd mentality, mob-rules, "Group", mind-control. It's been used on populations since we wore skins and lived in caves. Straight didn't invent it, they didn't even do a very good job of it. Good Lord, they sucked at it! Who believes any of it anymore?
Wasn't their message in it's simplest form:
"If you aren't with us, you're against us?"
Isn't that what they are saying still?
Are some here saying that now?
If you hate what Straight did to you then, don't practice that behavior here now. I've posted in the past, and each time, angry people who don't identify themselves go nuts with anger - it's
like cyber-review. I reject that option.
I'll talk with anyone who wants to talk. I won't yell. Or swear. Or get in anyone's face. Ridicule, shame, anger, xenophobia, those weapons are used by people interested in Control. And those who are still in the grasp of that place.
Cincinnati, my cousin went into cincy first. He was seriously damaged by that place. We can't even talk about it. My sister and I into VA second and third. It was a family affair.
We all have a right to say our thing on these forums, but based on the dates we were all there, most of us must be pushing 40. Why do so many posts on this site appear like they are written by teens? Didn't we get any older?
Hating Dean won't make it better. Hating anybody won't. Hate is a control mechanism. It limits independent thinking. Whoever fabricated that yahoo page of "Dean", that's not him. That's not even his photo. He'd be 46 years old now. Years ago ('92?) I faced him, said my piece. I didn't get the response I was looking for, but I didn't do it for him. I got it over with. Saying it in these forums instead would not have worked for me.
People have sought me out for the same reason. I get it. If what I want you to unload is mine to own, I'll own it. Happy to help. Apologies will be made, personally - not in cyber-group.
If you read some scary story about me third hand, written by some anonymous poster in chat room scrawl, and want to know if it's true, don't bother to ask. If it involved you, send a Private Message.
If you want your experiences to be taken seriously, to make people aware, speak in a reasonable tone. Nobody believes what a raving lunatic says. If a woman screams for help in an alley, most people won't even look. If she yells fire, people come running. At least they'll sniff for smoke or look for a fire.
The people who turned it into an industry will probably never pay. Not Sembler, he's an Ambassador now. Diplomatic Immunity laws are in effect, here and abroad. Does anyone else find that an enormous coincidence? Too many self assured people of power would need to have changes of heart, and give up thier investment money for that ever to happen.
I won't hate because they want me too.
The Best Vengeance is a life well lived.
Post by: Lost_In_Translation on February 07, 2006, 01:48:00 PM
I respect your right to rant about your experience. I'll believe you when you do.
I respect your right to rant about anyone who you personally witnessed being cruel, inhumane or worse. It happened.
It's the third party stuff I don't understand.
Do you respect the right of anyone, to say anything about anyone else on these forums? I know it's the first amendment and all. I believe we have the right, but that doesn't make it the correct thing to do.
I don't know if passing along a story from this guy, who knows this other guy, who heard this girl say that someone else did this awful thing. Hence my reference to "urban legend".
Post by: Antigen on February 07, 2006, 02:17:00 PM
Yeah, we are getting old. We're the grown ups now. It's our right and our duty take these sadistic lunatics out of public office and off the public dole. If you're too pussy to even try, well that's your problem.
A good head and good heart are always a formidable combination. But when you add to that a literate tongue or pen, then you have something very special
--Nelson Mandela
Post by: Antigen on February 07, 2006, 02:19:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-07 10:48:00, Paul_Meyer wrote:
I don't know if passing along a story from this guy, who knows this other guy, who heard this girl say that someone else did this awful thing. Hence my reference to "urban legend".
Psssst! How did you come to "know" about hip's alleged drug use and other "concerns"?
The strength of the Constitution lies entirely in the determination of each citizen to defend it. Only if every single citizen feels duty bound to do his share in this defense are constitutional rights secure.
-- Albert Einstein
Post by: Lost_In_Translation on February 07, 2006, 03:38:00 PM
We were friends for years. I guess I was hip's "ass-sniffer." Kevin G. first, then me.
I was there. Material witness, accessory after the fact. It should remain buried. His mom called me after he was fired. I lied to her.
Don't ask me, ask him. It's not about the money. I didn't look for him in Harvard Square. I was looking for someone else.
Twenty years have passed, are you that same person?
As for begging forgiveness, I've done it. In '85 from kids I lost it on. In '86 when I quit. From Hippie, Pete B. parents, siblings. At concerts, on beaches, from friends, enemies, people who didn't care. On these forums too. Clergy, shrinks, sponsors. I can't really handle sponsors. Lingering fear of "oldcomers", I suspect.
I called in to a couple of Radio Shows when W Bush funded religious self-help groups. A.M. radio and NPR. Told some stories - "who watches the guards" stuff. Big mistake.
I worked for the Democratic National Committee for a few months. If you want to fight the system join the system, right? Great research tools, if you want to follow the money. Check the 503b's and 503c's. I quit/was fired.
I run into people that remember me. If you sat up on that stool, people remember.
Understanding? I don't understand it. I can look back and see how wrong it all was. Why didn't I then? Fear, probably. Ego, definitely. A desire to help, maybe. I thought that my being older made me somehow wiser. I was wrong.
I've been told "it's not your fault". A lot of it wasn't, but some of it was. Always will be.
I think that I believed if I could just be a good enough person, I could make it better. That's a common belief among victims turned abusers. It's why battered wives return.
I'm not sure.
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2006, 04:22:00 PM
Post by: Nonconformistlaw on February 07, 2006, 05:49:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-07 10:48:00, Paul_Meyer wrote:
"NonconformistLaw,
I respect your right to rant about your experience. I'll believe you when you do.
I respect your right to rant about anyone who you personally witnessed being cruel, inhumane or worse. It happened.
It's the third party stuff I don't understand.
Do you respect the right of anyone, to say anything about anyone else on these forums? I know it's the first amendment and all. I believe we have the right, but that doesn't make it the correct thing to do.
I don't know if passing along a story from this guy, who knows this other guy, who heard this girl say that someone else did this awful thing. Hence my reference to "urban legend"."
Well, unfortunately there is plenty of documentation regarding the Semblers, Miller Newton, and various other executive staff, so I have no problem when people rant about them even if they never met them. For example, I have bitched about Miller Newton even though I never 'witnessed' his cruelty personally. Case in point....read chapter 2 of the Great Drug War and other documentation found on the web concerning the above mentioned individuals.
But mostly I bitch about those I remember and any who were on executive staff whether I remember them or not. But by reading through the posts on this forum.....how on earth can you jump to the conclusion that posters are merely ranting about "hearsay" so to speak (urban legend as you call it)? Since its impossible to tell, I wouldnt consider making an issue out of it unless I know the facts first. But even if someone is bitching unjustly, that is their choice. I'm not gonna tell 'em what to do. For the record, I have shared information about other's experiences (w/o mentioning names) with my father, to help him understand how he got sucked into Straight's deceitful web and to help him realize our experience with straight was not unique....and I have no problem if this inadvertantly spreads the 'urban legend' of straight. As far as I'm concerned...its just a peice of the truth about straight.
Also, whether I agree with your views or not....I am always anxious to hear a former staff member's perspective, in hopes that I gain a better understanding of what I personally endured in straight, and to get a clearer perspective of the "big picture" of all the straights.
Post by: Dr. Miller Newton on February 07, 2006, 06:05:00 PM
Quote
For example, I have bitched about Miller Newton even though I never 'witnessed' his cruelty personally.
Cruelty???? . :flame: :flame: :flame: :skull: :skull:
That was TOUGH LOVE, damn you!!! (http://http://www.clicksmilies.com/s0105/teufel/devil-smiley-029.gif)
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2006, 06:18:00 PM
i went up there with more real sobriety under my belt than any of you....i did some unorthodox things,but it never made me put a joint in my mouth!shit,i hadn'yt been on "staff 2 days and i was getting shit from dean and sylvia....i called mel riddle BECAUSE i KNEW him better than any of you ppl.....he talked to them and they decided to find another way to get "rid" of me....this time it was like i was on my phases again!everyone reported me...the "report" that screwed me was the one where i told the group NOT to drink JOLT...yes JOLT COLA,because it made me feel jumpy
i was protecting the phasers from getting in trouble for drinking that drink....i was afraid a few of them would"BRAINWASHINGLY" REPORT THEMSELVES FOR FEELING GUILTY ABOUT A CAFFINE BUZZ
the next thing i know,i'm getting fired for "suspicion of drug use".....after that,i snapped....shit after what i had been through in st pete,that was the straw that broke the camels back.....i had three UNTREATED NERVOUS BREAKDOWNS IN THAT F_ING PLACE PAUL...the first was a suiside attempt on my 3rd day in there,the 2nd was getting started over FOR NOTHING on day 128 of my 1st 5th phase{I know it was for nothing because MARK NEWTON told me so}....staff made a mistake,but couldn't admit to it and left me started over...funny how thats the 1st step of any step program but they couldn't apply that bs to themselves....so i got more torure both mentally and pysically,ostrasized from everyone,and had to be in there for 13 1/2 months LONGER.....3 yrs later,after i relised that i was nothing but a grad from str8 with no social or job skills and was coersed into staff by my mom{go or get out of the house!}hell,even though i had been accepted by stoughton 3 MONTHS EARLIER,i was still unsure about being a staff member up there,but off i went!then 5 weeks later....5 F-ING WEEKS LATER,i was fired for "suspicion of drug use"....if i was so full of shit,then explain why jim murry got me a job somwhere else
before he fired me?thats what happened paul.....i didn't get that job babysitting ppl on my own...
in the same "breath" of you're fired,he gave me a job somwhere else....
hell yes i was messed up! who wouldn't have been after that f-ing witch hunt?who wouldn't have been after being told that they would be arrested for being on str8's sacred grounds?who wouldn't have been after he found out his roomates/supposed friends were the ones behind all of that shit? paul,i was falling apart,and the ppl that i thought were my friends helped me along.....after that crap,all the good i saw in str8,just disappeared....vanished....and with it went a good guy....i couldn't function anymore
i just didn't have another recovery after all the shit i went through in there....when that happened
i realised that everything i'd gone through in there was for nothing....oh,i did try to "recover"
i did try to "blame" myself for that shit,just like i did when i was started over,but i didn't have enough in me to do so.....in spite of what happened to me up there,i did stay off drugs for 1 more yr.....i should've gone back to V.a,but i wanted to come home with my head held high....it
NEVER HAPPENED.....between that thing you call a state ,ASSACHUSETS,arresting me for "driving on a suspended license"that WASN'T suspended,
{i went down to V.a to clear my suspension,but they said it wasn't...when i brought up proof,the judge said it was suspended in ASSACHUSETS!}
and all the grief i had been subjected to by you and the other ppl involved,i went into depression,
and much more....i wound up on the streets of boston not giving shit about anything.....all of what happened to you by me, happened AFTER I WAS FUCKED OVER BY STRAIGHT and of course you!!!!! the last few months i was around you guys,yes i shirked my rent.by then i was usless...i was mentally f-ed up! remember what the "program" said?"your actions can screw somones life up"...do you remember that?
well,when i went up there,i was fine,normal happy go lucky goof ball as you put it....after that witch hunt,i was a raging lunatic!i had NOWHERE OR NO ONE TO VENT MY ANGER WITH....everyone thought i was all of a sudden,full of shit! no one
wanted anything to do with me....i couldn't "practice" what i was taught to do to deal with it....i was totally on my own!excommunicated from everything and everybody....
was that your doings also?was it dean or sylvias?
who was i supposed to trust after that shit happened?you?we were friends paul,mostly because you remember me coming in to support all of you guys on your phases.....i knew the place was f-ed up,but i knew the one thing i didn't have much when i was in there was hope!in my own f-ed up way,i was giving you guys hope!showing you there was life after straight....that what you were experiencing was only temporary....not forever!
how many other 7 steppers did you see do that ?
no..it wasn't cause i was dependant on the f-ing "program" or even that i believed in its bs so much as it was that i wanted the others that came in after me,to have it better than i did! in
some way,i felt like i was helping them through thier struggles in that place.....many phasers looked forward to me coming in and talking about being 7 stepped....life after hell....hearing me
talk about my own struggles in life as a 7 stepper
and when i was in st pete....i was there a long time paul...19 1/2 months! if you think i'm bull shit,then tell me paul,where did you get off "reporting me"....what was that supposed to help me?was it like the "therapy" i recieved in st pete? making me piss in my pants to "humble me?
throwing me into the time out room 2 times in my first week? i know! pinning me on the ground with 5 of the biggest kiss ass goons to cut my hair?
how about the whole open meeting review being devoted to me...for 4 hrs! then the next day more of the same for the whole day....then getting started over for shit that i had approved by senior staff{like you}! only to find out 10 months later,by miller newtons son,that my start over was bull shit! a mistake! hell,by the time i found that out,i had already been there 20 months!
leaving would've been stupid....i was almost on 5th again and i would've just been hunted down and brought back because my parents were so brainwashed into the f-ing place and the fred collins thing hadn't even happened yet...he was still in there!
oh , i called DEAN"NO VASALINE PLEASE"MINSTRETTA'S
bar....found out that he didn't own it anymore..also found out he IS GAY!!!!the most f-ed up thing about your mentor,was that i can remember him confronting MANY guys{not just one}
for "guy,guy" relationships only to find out he's a bone smoker himself! i don't care if he knows what i said just like i don't care about what i wrote about stoughton.....here's somthing you and your little group don't get...we on this forum are just waiting for you! we were fucked up by a single incident or in my case many,and we didn't have a cozy "program",weren't groomed for staff and made staff members...none of us were! oh,and we didn't "live behind the doors of straight"to stay sober either....at least for me,thats not the case...lies? whatever man.....i wish this shit had happened to you....i'd love to see how you would've dealt with it!thanks for my last nervous breakdown....my ass is still bleeding from it....come on down to my concert paul....
i'm sure everyone would love to see you...yes,i have a concert every year in the same place! its for underprivileged kids who's parents can't afford to buy them an instrument.....i still help out as many ppl as i can....somthing i can't seem to quit doing....just like when i was 7 stepped
and i came in and sung "american pie" to you guys or "rocket man".....how many ppl did i ruin by doing that paul...you? lol..please go tell somone who gives a shit!i'll give you the .50 cents to call! i begged to be on staff?begged? please dude,you're killing me!...so go on,go to germany and ride around in mikes car and talk up a good one about me....i wonder how many lives you ruined?i know one paul.....mine! oh,i know you don't believe it,but you guys did.....how could i be at fault for getting fired for drinking JOLT COLA?....suspicion of drug use...please.....matt mal00l3y [ This Message was edited by: Eudora on 2006-05-04 23:48 ]
Post by: Nonconformistlaw on February 07, 2006, 06:22:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-07 15:05:00, Dr. Miller Newton wrote:QuoteFor example, I have bitched about Miller Newton even though I never 'witnessed' his cruelty personally.
Cruelty???? . ::bangin:: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2006, 06:25:00 PM
etc etc.....its just not in my personality...my biggest mistake was going up there....i should've followed my gut feelings...but i'm a stupid fuck up.....i believed that my feelings were wrong and went up to my self destruction,instead of what i went up there for.....hippie
Post by: Antigen on February 07, 2006, 06:27:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-07 12:38:00, Paul_Meyer wrote:
"You're right, I should have contacted him off-line. I didn't even know it was an option, until after I hit send. I should never hit send when I'm still angry. He may remember it differently than I do. He was insane.
So were you. So was damned near everybody involved in the Program.
Religious controversies are always productive of more acrimony and irreconcilable hatreds than those which spring from any other cause.
--George Washington, Revolutionary War General and U.S. President
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 07, 2006, 09:01:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-07 05:47:00, Frank Discussion wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-02-06 23:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quotebut I doubt you actually met or knew hippie or Dean.
Why would you doubt that?? "
Again, why would you doubt this? I knew Dean. He was on staff for the entire time that I was in VA str8. He was one of the most (if not THE most) abusive "staffer" to ever set foot in that place. I was there from late 1982 to 1985. Ask anyone who was in there then & they'll tell you the same thing about him. There is no 'urban legend' in this case, Paul. He deserves every bit of hatred and venom that gets spewed from people here, and then some. That guy was a complete prick to just about everyone, unless they happened to be one of "Dean's boys." :lol: That is, guys that he favored... "
Witness. I was in from 85-87. I knew Dean, watched him confront and intimidate many, many phasers. He was an asshole. In my opinion only Tim Kelleher was worse. I also saw hippie come in the back of group on occaision, just like he says he done.
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2006, 09:15:00 PM
Post by: Lost_In_Translation on February 07, 2006, 09:59:00 PM
Post by: webcrawler on February 07, 2006, 10:02:00 PM
Granted what he said to Hippy is pretty loaded and vice versa but it's the experiences the two of them personally shared. They should have the right to work it out fairly without being insulted or judged.
He's remorseful for being on staff. Let the guy process his experiences and thoughts here. People are always so quick to jump on someone for saying the "wrong thing." He's right when he says we act just like staff when we do this.
For the record no, I'm not brainwashed so if any of my trolls decide to come out kiss my ass!
Hell get 5 of us in a room with someone that is an outsider and we would scare the shit out of them. A trait that has never left the majority of us. I know it's still in me and I have used confrontation and intimidation as a coping mechanism myself, I'm just saying everyone is just going full throttle at the guy and it's a little scary. Hippy is in pain and I can't help but wonder how Paul is feeling after all these posts.
Post by: teachback on February 07, 2006, 10:17:00 PM
Kidding, of course.
Just curious - do you think that ~I was hard on him? I think I was pretty civil..eh?
Post by: Nonconformistlaw on February 07, 2006, 10:22:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-07 19:02:00, webcrawler wrote:
"Look I don't know how Paul was as a staff member, but he's here now and he's admitted his faults. I think people are being pretty hard on him.
Granted what he said to Hippy is pretty loaded and vice versa but it's the experiences the two of them personally shared. They should have the right to work it out fairly without being insulted or judged.
He's remorseful for being on staff. Let the guy process his experiences and thoughts here. People are always so quick to jump on someone for saying the "wrong thing." He's right when he says we act just like staff when we do this.
For the record no, I'm not brainwashed so if any of my trolls decide to come out kiss my ass!"
I agree...and I know I did my share of jumping his shit when I disagreed about survivors supposedly always spewing venom and hate without personal knowledge of certain events/staff, etc. As always, I hope to see more insight into Straight from the perspective of a former staff member.
Post by: webcrawler on February 07, 2006, 10:27:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-07 19:17:00, Frank Discussion wrote:
"Girl, you are SOOOOO damn washed...... :rofl:
Kidding, of course.
Just curious - do you think that ~I was hard on him? I think I was pretty civil..eh? "
Frank, I think you were pretty civil. I just don't agree with the assessment that he sounds program like by referring to staff and phasers. He was just using the original terms so we are all on the same page so everyone knew what he was talking about.(My hypothesis, lol)
I remember when I got into it with someone when I was told I sounded too program like. lol. Not every word and phrase we used in there was unique to str8. Also sometimes we just have to use the names and phrases str8 used to be clear on something we are talking about.
Peace.
Post by: Dr. Miller Newton on February 07, 2006, 10:28:00 PM
Quote
As always, I hope to see more insight into Straight from the perspective of a former staff member.
Yes, the opinions of Straight staff members should be much more of a priority around here:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=6&37 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=6&37)
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2006, 10:30:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-07 19:27:00, webcrawler wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-02-07 19:17:00, Frank Discussion wrote:
"Girl, you are SOOOOO damn washed...... :rofl:
Kidding, of course.
Just curious - do you think that ~I was hard on him? I think I was pretty civil..eh? "
Frank, I think you were pretty civil. I just don't agree with the assessment that he sounds program like by referring to staff and phasers. He was just using the original terms so we are all on the same page so everyone knew what he was talking about.(My hypothesis, lol)
I remember when I got into it with someone when I was told I sounded too program like. lol. Not every word and phrase we used in there was unique to str8. Also sometimes we just have to use the names and phrases str8 used to be clear on something we are talking about.
Peace."
Damn you, webcrawler i done apologized for that shit now.....pay attn! frankie.
Post by: webcrawler on February 07, 2006, 10:33:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-07 19:28:00, Dr. Miller Newton wrote:
"QuoteAs always, I hope to see more insight into Straight from the perspective of a former staff member.
Yes, the opinions of Straight staff members should be much more of a priority around here:
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=6&37 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewforum.php?forum=6&37)"
Hey miller newton how's your sleep been at night? I imagine you must not be getting much with all the phone calls to your house. :lol:
Post by: Anonymous on February 07, 2006, 10:35:00 PM
Quote
Hey Miller how's your sleep been at night? I imagine you must not be getting much with all the phone calls to your house. :nworthy: :nworthy: :tup: :tup:
Post by: Antigen on February 08, 2006, 12:02:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2006, 12:07:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-07 21:02:00, Eudora wrote:
"I think yenz ought to go back and read over this thread. It was actually a pretty decent discussion till right about HERE
No shit, dumbass used the word "dilute" instead delude...that being aside from the other irritating aspects of that post.
Post by: gutenwooten67 on February 08, 2006, 12:25:00 AM
Still A Hippie:
Glad to know you're still alive, and doing so "well". Glad to see you've matured and moved on. I hadn't given your costly self-implosion much thought recently, until some fellow forum members sent your rant my way. I started to write about all the disturbing and innapropriate crap that you did, but erased it, simply because all that nonsense belongs in the past. However, If you want to sling some shit about people you used to call friends, I can oblige.
My Response: Funny, how you say that it is all in the past and not worth anything, yet at the same time your words imply something did happen and what happened was not right.
Paul says:
hope you've managed to get some counseling or some other help since 1986, but it doesn't sound like it. Straight might have had control of you for a while, but what you've done for the past twenty years, well, you own that.
Response:
Well thanks Paul, I appreciate your concern for Hip, (that's sarcarsm for you folks in Rioloanda.) Listen, Chumly, we are all the sum of our experices. That includes Straight. And, yes, Paul, Hip does get counseling, a great deal of it, and I think it would not be necessary would he have not gone to Stoughton. I was one of his newcommers, Paul, and I know. In fact I know the man still. When he had left for Stoughton, I asked him if he was sure about what he was doing. I was one of three newcommers who talked him in to PT. Seeing him before and after, I will regret this forevermore. I ran in to him at Dead concert a few years after, I did not recognice him. His demeanor and appearance had greatly changed. He was full of anger and NOT the same man. I don't get what you guys did to him up there.
Look, Pauly, you make the guy to be a sellout or an ass, but in all honesty, he really wanted to help people. I know he helped me.
Paul says:
guess you must have really been traumatized by that place. First as a phaser, then as a seven-stepper, and eventually as an evil-battling staff member. Thank God for selfless, courageous and principled people like you who fought "the man" by becoming the man. No hipocracy in your story. Let's recap your posts in a more honest light:
Response:
Look Pauly, I don't know you but I know Hip very well and I saw what he did and tried to do for us newcomers. For you to say or even think otherwise is asinine. If Hippie was "The Man", then I thank God he was. I wouldn't have made it out of that pit of hell without his help, seeing as I had been on first phase for 10 months before going to his house. I never would have made it home without him. All the old-comers that I had were utter morons concerned with their own progress within Straight rather than mine.
Paul Says:
You begged to be a staff member! You lacked the courage to ask on your own, so you had your mother kiss Mel Riddle's ass for you. The Springfield folks didn?t want to hire you, so they asked us and we said OK. They told you the only opening available was in Boston. They hoped you'd drop it, seeing as how you'd never actually held a full time job or lived away from home except while in St. Pete, but you took the position, promising to get a haircut and attempt some mimimal level of professional conduct when in the building. Unfortunately, you couldn't do it. Getting up on time, paying your bills, cleaning, laundry and cooking were not skills you had learned while living with your parents through your mid-twenties.
Response:
Look, as far as I know, and I know Hip pretty well, he never "begged" for any such position. At any rate, I wish he would have so that he could help others such as myself. As it was, he was not given such a position as I know, but what I do know, is that he came and checked on me and others--on his own time and dime--and for no other reason. And, Pauly, I wouldn't give a rat's ass as far as your opinion concerning Hip's personal hygene. It REALLY doesn't matter to me and some people who take a shower three times a day stink worse than those who only do it once.
So says the Paulster:
You wanted to be "Straight's hippie messiah". Problem was, in 1986 you were a self important fraud. Once anyone got to know you, they were on to you. You lied so much and so often to so many, that we all stopped believing everything you said. Your post makes it sound like we suddenly all betrayed you. That's a lie. It took months for you to borrow, steal and screw over every person you came in contact with, inside straight, AA or outside. We asked you to move out after two jobless months because you were increasingly erratic and disturbed. You had transitioned from being a loopy, but harmless goof-off to a rightous, ranting exploiter of newly sober young people. You messed with a lot of people's minds, both in Straight and AA. Whining about your unfair firing and rejection by your friends in this forum dishonors you, and the memories of the dead friends whose funerals we have attended since.
Response:
Listen, Chumly, I don't know about "Hippie Messiah", however, Hip was a big part of my salvation from drugs and alcohol and more importantly, from Straight.
And, though I was not there and do admitedly do not know the whole story, were I employed there and fired afer only five weeks, I might suspect others as being a part of it. As far as Hip being a "self-important fraud", I know damn well he is not. This I know more than anything else I have written.
Paularama says:
I don't remember any rebellion when you left. You were only on staff five weeks. How many days did you actually work? Maybe 25? The Stoughton group only had 70-80 people then, and 60% were on higher phases. How many did you say good-bye to just before the "riot"? Couldn't have been more than 35-40 tops. It wasn't the epic saga of selfless hippy counseler vs. evil co-workers you'd like it re-remember it as.
Response:
I know Hip well and I have never heard him claiming some such. And though you seem to think you are a clever fellow, I don't think so. And I simply doubt he was any less honest about this matter than he was with myriad matters with we new-commers. But that's up to you to believe or not. All I know is we new-commers at his place loved him. (And I'm sure the Stoughton group did too.)
Paulboy says:
I can't recall you ever leading a rap session solo, but you might have. We kept pairing you up with someone to keep you from blabbering on for 10 minutes at a time about your "Jerry Garcia connection", or some other "I'm so cool" topic while unimpressed newcomers picked thier fingernails. Your fake hippie transparency was as clear to them as it was to us. I still live here, don't kid yourself.
Response:
Geeze, Paul, get a girlfriend or something. For the love of Mike, is that the best you can come up with about my pal? And I doubt the new-commers were picking their fingernails when he spoke of Jerry, or anything out of the ordinary at Straight.If that had happened while i was on my phases,I would've been on the edge of my seat listening! If he did those kinds of things,then
I believe there was a scuffle or "riot"!I wouldn't have wanted a staff member like that getting fired!
Paul says:
Blame me that you were fired. I spoke to Jim Murray and Sylvia Kolker personally about my concerns. I wanted to help my friend. See, I was cool with you letting your freak flag fly, but I was not cool with you carelessly messing with people's minds. Seriously, you were way more innapropriate around newcomers, especially young girls, than some ?true believers?.
Response:
I know nothing of which you speak, except to say that Hip has been a pal of mine for years and I do not believe a word of what you have written. You seem to have a vendetta agains't him for some reason. Pals don't report pals to ex. staff to get another pal fired. I don't undersand your interpretation of the word "friends" and from my reading of your own words, it seems you did betray him.
Paul says:
I do remember feeling sorry that you were fired. I stopped feeling sorry for you though, the moment you told me you got revenge by urinating in that person's office. I hope you don't work in fast food.
Response:
Better to urinate in someone's office than in their mind. As for me, I would have gone postal.
Paul Says:
Now that I know it was all a well crafted scheme of ultimate revenge, and not a stupid series of incredibly selfish, immature, irresponsible, self-destructive errors, I guess I should be upset all over again, right? Hardly.
Response:
I think you outta start drinking decaf and stop obsessing on Hip. Next you'll be saying he was the shooter on the grassy knoll.
Pauly again opines:
I paid your debts because you used my word and my name to run up those bills and screw those people. It's funny now. We've laughed about it. Mike Kirsch and I were talking about you as we drove the Autobahn in his BMW 7 series. We were on our way to an International Software Conference that the company I own produced in Cologne.
Response:First, again I see you have a rather unhealthy obsession with Hippie, secondly it's nice to see that someone who had a groomed for staff program is doing so well. (Say hi to the micro-chip babes for me) seeing as how the rest of us still struggle every frigging day because of the nonsensense people like you inflicted upon us. You go-alongs with the program will always succeed, just like the higher-up Nazis did.
Herr Paul Writes:
I realized a long time ago that your behavior was not something I needed to understand or justify. When you called to apologize a year after you took off, I told you I forgave you, and the best revenge you could have on Straight was creating a life that is well-lived. I hope you are doing well, and that the badly spelled rant you posted here is not an indication of your current situation.
Response:
You are ever so magnanimous, or apparently so, however, I got a bullshit detector and it is going off the scale. Who are you kidding?
Der Furher Paul says:
It was a messed up place, no question. However, you did little or nothing to make it better. In fact, you made it worse.
Response:
Kinda like being in a concentration camp and instead of starving to death, you do so while playing checkers? I hardly think he made it worse (sorry for the over-used Nazi example), if anything he made it better, at least for me.
Paul Writes:
See, we all did stuff we weren't proud of while we were there. I know I did, and I've said so on these forums. After 20+ years, how dare you keep whining "not me, I'm still a victim, no guilt on me". There's no apology in these forum pages from you. Stop deceiving yourself. It's cowardly and shameful. Stop writing homophobic nonsense like a vengeful skinhead teenager. You're over 40 years old. If you have any long hair left, it?s gray and falling out. It was falling out in ?86, same as me.
Response:
First off, don't project your sexual hang-ups on Hip. He is neither bald nor anything like a skinhead. Quite the oposite, his hair is very long. Hence: Hipie. Apparently, Straight did not take that from him (nor from me, for that matter.)
Pal Paul says:
Over the years I've met staffers, phasers, cop-outs and siblings. I?ve been to weddings, baptisms, and funerals. We share a common experience born of personal tragedy that most of us have overcome. Only a limited few remain defined by that single time of their lives. It's almost like what combat vets share. We have a common language and experiences that outsiders can only imagine. I'm still sober, and don't care whether anyone on these forums is or not. I was over 18 when I signed myself in, so any baggage I carry is mine and I own it. I remember a thousand faces, almost all of them are from 20 years ago. I know what about a dozen people are up to. My nightmares have stopped, and the time for apologies is long over. I hope those of us that made it through continue to use these forums as a way to connect, heal and move on, not like a Beavis and Butt-head revenge rant. But hey, it?s your program.
Paul Meyer
Reply:
Yo Paul, Ever hear of Communist re-education camps? I understand they work pretty well too. Wake up.
Sincerly,
Anonymous
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2006, 01:07:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-05 09:23:00, Anonymous wrote:Quote
On 2006-02-02 10:27:00, Anonymous wrote:QuoteSome of the things that are being said about people on this thread are just simply false.
For instance... :question: "
Well, for one, Dean Mistretta never used vaseline on his ass, he liked it rough and dry......"
:nworthy: :nworthy: :tup:
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2006, 06:58:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-07 21:07:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-02-07 21:02:00, Eudora wrote:
"I think yenz ought to go back and read over this thread. It was actually a pretty decent discussion till right about HERE
No shit, dumbass used the word "dilute" instead delude...that being aside from the other irritating aspects of that post. "
You're right. I should have used "dilute". The rest of the post works quite well and has the right sentiment.
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2006, 08:12:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2006, 09:41:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-08 05:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You mean "shouldn't have used diute"..the rest of that post is horseshit. "
right again. about the "shouldn't" part.
how could you possibly know whether or not the rest of the post is horseshit? were you there? do you know ANY of the players? exactly.
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2006, 09:43:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2006, 09:46:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2006, 10:07:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2006, 10:15:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2006, 10:18:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2006, 10:21:00 AM
Post by: Antigen on February 08, 2006, 10:45:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-08 05:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"You mean "shouldn't have used diute"..the rest of that post is horseshit. "
Must be opposites day. Please, Hip, don't dilute yourself! You're just fine at full strength!
Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism--how passionately I hate them!
--Albert Einstein
Post by: Antigen on February 08, 2006, 10:58:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-07 21:25:00, gutenwooten67 wrote:
Reply:
Yo Paul, Ever hear of Communist re-education camps? I understand they work pretty well too. Wake up.
Sincerly,
Anonymous
While I get what you're saying, these jokers hit the ground on third base and they still think they hit a home run.
Same thing happened in my family. The Seedling grads got a start, financial support, job offeres and other connects. Me? I got shown the door w/o an education or a buck or change of clothes to my name. When I got back to Pompano, I found that my mom had been recruiting. At least two of my old friends had been shipped off to some program or other, not Straight.
All the rest, teachers, neighbors, anybody I might want to catch up with, they all thought I was some kind of junkie. Worse? After my daughter was born, I thought I'd drop in on my elderly cousin. She didn't have a phone, so there was no calling ahead or anything. That old lady who had always been so cool, so understanding, so interesting and so damned adept at putting anyone at ease, she was scared to death of me! Muy demoralizing! I made it anyway. Fuck all the nay-sayers.
A happy coincidence, though. My ex happened to take a job in maint at Cousin K's appt complex. And he'd take our daughter w/ him on the weekends. And so she came home one Sunday afternoon telling me all about Miss K. showing her how to graft plants and serving her some interesting kind of cookies w/ tea on very old china; very formal and proper! Turns out at least Vic got to know Cousin K. despite my mother's best work. Ironic part is the ex turned out to actually be a crack head and violent criminal. S'awright, though, K never saw that side of him.
At the end of the day, though, yeah the good little Nazis have gotten lots of breaks. But I think that's changing.
Even a little boy sees rottenness rewarded and good people smacked down. Unctuous rationalizations of this by otherwise sensible adults disgust little children.
John Taylor Gatto
Post by: Lost_In_Translation on February 08, 2006, 11:46:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-07 15:27:00, Eudora wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-02-07 12:38:00, Paul_Meyer wrote:
"You're right, I should have contacted him off-line. I didn't even know it was an option, until after I hit send. I should never hit send when I'm still angry. He may remember it differently than I do. He was insane.
So were you. So was damned near everybody involved in the Program.
Eudora, I wasn't insane. I was mean, rightous, "powerful", arrogant and rude.
I won't permit myself that excuse.
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2006, 12:00:00 PM
Post by: Lost_In_Translation on February 08, 2006, 03:29:00 PM
I shouldn't have trashed Hip openly. I agree with that, too.
I'll repeat what I believe to be my only point. Hip has posted stories trashing me and his friends about what happened that are false. He could have said worse things about me, Mike, Pete and others that are true, I'm sure.
I just want to know why - from him. He has not answered that one question either by PM's or the open posts. Nobody here can answer it for him. Anyone else can weigh in, but really, you can't answer.
I wasn't in St. Pete with him. He was incarcerated about six weeks longer than I. I'm sure I had an easier time in treatment. I was 19 when we met, and "wanted to be there". He was 5 years "straight" when I met him. He was over age by then,older than me, and still coming around. I admired him. I rode around in his SuperBee with Scott W. and Kevin G. Two years later we had jobs on staff together. It was supposed to be great.
Reading his posts kind of cut me open.
Stuff I'd forgotten.
I don't agree with his version of the events that took place. I remember it differently.
Hip "remembers" on his posts that he returned and removed a drain plug from someone's transmission to exact revenge. He might have done it to Mike's '80 Camaro or Pete's '79 Cordoba. Pete's car never ran right. Those are his memories. Ask Him.
What I remember is being off staff for a few weeks and driving on 128 to my new job. My brakes went soft as I drove toward a traffic jam. In my 14 month old Ford Escort. I Stood on the pedal and rear ended a car in the breakdown lane doing 50. It was a four car collision. I put my head through the windshield. Concussion, lacerations, a strained neck, two strained wrists, and a couple of loose teeth. No seatbelt - I was lucky, they said. I didn't have health insurance. I got a bill for $157.00 to cover the ambulance. Somebody, a straight parent, I think, paid the rest. For a few weeks after, I would sometimes cut my fingertips on the broken glass bits embedded in the scabs when I washed my hair.
Before I read Hip's post, I thought it was just an accident. What would you think, reading that on-line after 20+ years?
I remember lot's of other things, but they didn't happen to me, so I don't feel right about sharing them here. I'll share them with Hip, though.
If you were there, tell me what you personally remember. What happened in that apartment - or at 53 Evans Drive, Stoughton, MA between April and July, 1985?
If you weren't there, have your say. There's a big difference between "I remember" and "I think".
Post by: Antigen on February 08, 2006, 03:37:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-07 12:38:00, Paul_Meyer wrote:
Eudora, I wasn't insane. I was mean, rightous, "powerful", arrogant and rude.
I won't permit myself that excuse.
Ok, you seem to have believed and believe to this day that what staff said was true, anyone who disagreed must be nuts and that what you were doing there was theraputic and helpful.
Please explain how that jives w/ you not being off your rocker?
There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is
proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in
everlasting ignorance- that principle is contempt prior to investigation.
--Herbert Spencer
Post by: Antigen on February 08, 2006, 03:43:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-08 12:29:00, Paul_Meyer wrote:
I just want to know why - from him. He has not answered that one question either by PM's or the open posts. Nobody here can answer it for him. Anyone else can weigh in, but really, you can't answer.
Nope, I can't answer authoratatively. But I can make a very well educated guess cause essentially the same thing happened to me and to every other split, pull-off and alleged fuckup I ever knew going all they way back to the Seed in 1970.
What Hip says you did to him was probably not something you came up with all on your own. It was SOP for that fucked up place. It's a relavent part of the story; he's describing the Program definition of group love and support. Just don't take it so personally, man!
The Mann family was only one of a host of influential voices being raised against the traditional reading instructions in the most literate nation on earth.
John Taylor Gatto
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2006, 04:10:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on February 08, 2006, 05:48:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-08 12:29:00, Paul_Meyer wrote:
Before I read Hip's post, I thought it was just an accident. What would you think, reading that on-line after 20+ years?
Given the totality of circumstances (you were Straight staff, after all) I'd think you got a long assed line of potential suspects. Wasn't there an accident investigation? Didn't they check the break lines? Why are you trying to pull shit outa your ass to try and smear Hip?
The line separating good and evil passes not through states, nor between classes, nor between political parties either, but right through every human heart.
Alexander Solzhenitsyn
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2006, 07:25:00 PM
Post by: Lost_In_Translation on February 08, 2006, 07:26:00 PM
Ask him.
It's not entirely clear to me how this site works. It's not about clearing my name.
Before Monday, he was just someone I used to be friends with a long time ago. We had a falling out. On Monday, I started wondering if the guy might have almost killed me. Could there be other suspects? Sure. I could have just crashed because I was a bad driver.
"I took the transmission plug out of one of thier new cars"
I had a new car. Who else had a new car in that apartment? There were five of us. Mike (old camaro) Pete (old dodge) Kevin (old VW) Matt (old Superbee, or old Tempest)
You're right, I'm paranoid. Still own guns in case they come to get me.
You asked why no investigation.
If I had suspected anything I suppose I could have said something. They totalled the car, every fluid but the gas leaked out on the side of the road. The engine was where the radio used to be. It went from the tow truck to the junkyard.
Hip was fired for something that I will not disclose. Exclusion of evidence rules, client confidentiality and statute of limitations apply. If you had asked me back then what he was fired for, I would have told you "suspicion of drug use". Just like they told me to.
Post by: Antigen on February 08, 2006, 09:05:00 PM
You pissed somebody off to the degree that they were willing to fuck up your car. You can't understand any reason why, after all your 'help' and 'support', anybody would think of such a thing :roll: and so they must be crazy. And if they're crazy enough to hate you, why a crazy sob like that might just do any thing!
Can't possibly be that ya' had it commin', huh?
[sigh]
Same ol'e. Like I say, very well educated guess.
Nothing is denied to well-directed labor, and nothing is ever to be
attained without it.
--Joshua Reynolds (1723-1792)
Post by: Antigen on February 08, 2006, 10:49:00 PM
But before he could move, I grabbed me a chair
And said: 'Watch him folks, 'cause he's a thoroughly dangerous man
Well, you may not know it, but this man's a spy
He's an undercover agent for the FBI
And he's been sent down here to infiltrate the Ku Klux Klan'
He was still bent over, holdin' on to his knee
But everyone else was lookin' and listenin' to me
And I layed it on thicker and heavier as I went
I said: 'Would you believe this man has gone as far
As tearin' Wallace stickers off the bumpers of cars
And he voted for George McGovern for President'
'He's a friend of them long-haired, hippie type, pinko fags
I betcha he's even got a Commie flag
Tacked up on the wall, inside of his garage
He's a snake in the grass, I tell ya guys
He may look dumb, but that's just a disguise
He's a mastermind in the ways of espionage'
Those who beat their swords into plowshares will plow for those who don't.
-- Anonymous
Post by: Binky on February 08, 2006, 11:49:00 PM
I remember Matt seeming like a breath of fresh air on staff - he was unique, different and I thought a savior to the group ? like robin Williams in Dead Poets Society?but nothing ever manifested from that and I never knew about any of the back story ? just the rumors, but remember Matt in a good light.
I remember Paul especially - Paul did my intake - and Paul profoundly changed my life for the better - on day one -- during my program -- and today - 20 years later I think of him fondly and am grateful I met him.
My mom put in me in str8 - no gettin' out for me - Paul gave this "druggy" a choice, a chance and a path - he gave this "phaser" ideas and a direction through his brilliant words and his example - and he gave and gives (through my memory) this sober man a better life.
Paul if you read this and if there's ever any bad thoughts of what you've done in the past as a "staffer" - let me balance it out now -
YOU set me on this path - and I have a great life
Thank you!
Post by: Anonymous on February 08, 2006, 11:58:00 PM
I'm standing, The pressure is on. Group is staring with intense fury. The front row 5th phaser has a stack of white slips, reports about me. What's on them? What past confession will be painfully thrown in my face? What cutting insult?
Oh, shit, it's the kiss-ass thing again. "You're such a fucking kiss-ass! It's your fucking fault this happened, we all know it, Don't try that shit here in OUR group! We all know what you're all about!" "Don't LIE ABOUT IT."
They're all waiting for me to speak ... "I, uhh, But I ....." Chairs are rumbling. Quick, think, what can I say to make them stop, avoid the attack? Too late, they've made up thier minds about me. What was I thinking, why did I try to say anything at all. Against my accusers? Who accused me? No names on the slips, no friends here, no friends. Give up, Comply. Say what they want me to say. Pray it's over quickly.
I start slowly, "You're right, Eudora, Hip's ok. He must be, he's got that T and R shine. He's going home, and everyone here loves him. He's so pure now, he does charity concerts for children. It wasn't personal, I shouldn't take it that way. Why am I being so touchy?" "It didn't happen the way I said. My memory is faulty." In back, a sheet of paper is torn slowly, strip by strip.
Eudora stares out cooly from her rap stool, legs crossed neatly.
The room quiets, prepares for the next person to be called. I can sit down now, it's over. They're after someone else. I stare straight ahead, and only hear the flourescent lights buzzing. That strobelight flicker thing from the fans. The red heat drains from my face, copper taste fades in my mouth. I look to the side, a person with no face smiles sadly at me, the smile means "at least you tried". My eyes water. Someone jams a knuckle in my back. a finger pokes my cheek, warning me to look ahead. I bite my lips shut, breath around the lump in my throat. I. Do. Not. COMPLY. I begin to move. Stand. I try and shout, but only a dry croak, barely a whisper comes out. "WHY WAS HE FIRED?"
A rap stool creaks, and Eudora says "shut him up and hold him down."
I'm torn from the row, dirty hands mash my lips against my teeth. A fingernail cuts my lower eyelid and it stings so bad. Shredded lip meat drifts in little bits on my tongue. I have to concentrate to breath around the hand partially blocking my nose. Snot blows in and out, in and out. Arms go numb. But the legs, they hurt on and on and on....
I wake up sweating.
I am AWAKE now. You woke me, Matt. I haven't slept in three days. I've been to Wally-World, and Wally-World bites.
What should I believe, group? Tell me what to say. How about one of these?
Hipster lied in these forums about sabotaging my car to make himself feel better, or to impress someone. That's the Hip I remember. He lied, he lies, I can believe that. So can you. Simple car crash, that's all.
Maybe he did it to somebody elses car that he hates more or hates less. That makes me feel better. HaHa, Miller Newton, spawn of satan, check your brakes.
Someone else did it that didn't brag about it on-line.
Somebody stole Hip's username and password and wrote those posts to mess with his mind. Nah, too big a stretch. This is a secure site, right?
It was a car accident. I believed that for 20 years. I'll talk myself back into it.
This is what everybody believes happened:
I fired him for jolt cola. I was a hypocrite to do so, seeing as how I drank cases of it myself.
Turkish coffee and Newports in Harvard Square, too. It's so believable, everybody knows I was the biggest ass-sniffer ever, Hip says so. Everybody knows it, from '81 to '97. How do they know? They've read the little white cyber slips, it must be true....
You think shit only happened to him, it was never caused by him, "he always seemed to nice, who could ever have imagined?..."
I've PM'd Hip, and asked him (just him) to leave me alone. If you keep a man's secrets, you expect to be left alone, and not killed. (just kidding).
Are those stackable chairs I hear rumbling in cyber space?
Post by: Binky on February 09, 2006, 12:37:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-08 16:25:00, Anonymous wrote:
"how much is Matt paying you to do his thinking and typing for him? give it a rest, sister."
I've gotta agree here Eudora - and sorry to sound on the offense here, but you have NO idea what you're talking about -
Matt's story is all over the map - and with each post Matt's lies are revealing themselves.
Eudora - you're bending over backward to believe Matt - is it because Paul was on staff?
I'm having a really hard time seeing from your point of view - and it seems that you have a large need for Matt to be right - it's either because you are a friend of Matt's - or that you are in fact - Matt.
The defense you're putting up just doesn't stand to reason - I'm confused -
Post by: Anonymous on February 09, 2006, 12:45:00 AM
Post by: Antigen on February 09, 2006, 06:40:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-08 20:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
"OK, Eudora. You have the rap stool. It's Friday night. Move the chairs. You can be in my recurring nightmare.
Hey asshole, if you didn't want to know what ppl think, why ask? You really do think this is group, don't you?
I don't know Matt too well. Really, just started talking a little while ago after he started posting here. But I damned sure know a good old fashioned, home style Program smear campaign when I see one.
So far, he's describe about the same as I experienced and the same as I've heard a hundred times or more from my fellow splits, pull-offs and fuck ups.
You think he's trying fuckin' kill you? "It's your program", you say? No, dumb ass, we're not in the program anymore. This is life.
You're just wrong, that's all.
For three days after death, hair and fingernails continue to grow but phone calls taper off.
-- Johnny Carson
Post by: Antigen on February 09, 2006, 06:52:00 AM
Quote
This is what everybody believes happened:
I fired him for jolt cola. I was a hypocrite to do so, seeing as how I drank cases of it myself.
Turkish coffee and Newports in Harvard Square, too. It's so believable, everybody knows I was the biggest ass-sniffer ever, Hip says so. Everybody knows it, from '81 to '97. How do they know? They've read the little white cyber slips, it must be true....
Hip's not the only one who remembers you, dude! I find you're li'll pose of Super Straightlings unimpressive. You guys are still up to your eyebrows in the kool aid. It's obvious by the way you think and the way you operate. They did the same thing to me when I finally escaped. I'd seen it done to dozens of friends already. Either you're a good little Seedling/Straightling or you must be a drug crazed, homocidal maniac. Just because you and your staff buddies made up all kinds of shit about splits, pulls and fuckups doesn't mean any of it was true.
Quote
You think shit only happened to him, it was never caused by him, "he always seemed to nice, who could ever have imagined?..."
Look, whoever's paying you to try and think for me, they're wasting their money. Go back and read what has transpired over these past few days, I think you've lost the thread of it. All the dude said was that you and some others were assholes to him, then he described SOP, then you and your buddies gave a decent demonstration of it.
What the hell do you care what I think about you anyway?
Quote
I've PM'd Hip, and asked him (just him) to leave me alone. If you keep a man's secrets, you expect to be left alone, and not killed. (just kidding).
Also typical Program SOP; if ya' can't just shout down the critic, there's always blackmail. Here's the funny part. You and your close friends there are the only ones still brainwashed enough to think your "secrets" have any basis in reality.
As men's prayers are a disease of the will, so are their creeds a disease of the intellect.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson, American essayist, poet, philosopher
Post by: Antigen on February 09, 2006, 06:57:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-08 21:37:00, Father Abraham wrote:
Matt's story is all over the map - and with each post Matt's lies are revealing themselves.
Eudora - you're bending over backward to believe Matt - is it because Paul was on staff?
I'm having a really hard time seeing from your point of view - and it seems that you have a large need for Matt to be right - it's either because you are a friend of Matt's - or that you are in fact - Matt.
You're missing the point (actually, being pretty easily led away from it) I don't need to have perfect purity out of anyone. Human beings are just not like that. 20 year old stories tend to be sketchy in the details.
Here's the diff; Matt disagrees w/ what Paul says, he just says he disagrees. Paule remembers things differently, and he's off writing soap operas about murder and worse. Very familiar! "Don't talk to the staff fuck up! He's dangerous, dangerous! He'll lead you astray! Don't believe him! Don't even listen to him!!!"
:roll:
Quote
The defense you're putting up just doesn't stand to reason - I'm confused -
I'm not defending him, dumb ass. I'm talking back to staff. And why not? Most of us are not in group anymore.
I think what makes stepcraft survivors different is that we have participated in the Asch Experiment writ large, and know what we (and others)are capable of in that situation.
Johnny G.
Post by: Anonymous on February 09, 2006, 07:04:00 AM
What ever happened to " everyone is allowed to have their own opinions and to express them"??
I can't count the number of times you have written that. You were not in the program with these guys were you?? Really, how can you determine who is telling the truth here? You think because you may have spoken to hip that you KNOW he is telling the truth? I don't know either of these guys as I was in the St.Pete program much earlier than them. I have been reading this post since it started and your responses in particular have been very visceral. Good old fashioned straight smear campaign?? Come on girl, get a grip here.
These are two guys who obviousley have very different memories of how things happened back then. I don't know about you but I think I could take anyone who was in when I was and we would probably remember many things very differently.
It seems to me that you have a big problem with this guy Paul because he was a staff member.
He seems to have admitted that he was screwed up as well as screwed over just like the rest of us. You said it yourself " we are not in the program anymore" so why are you still acting like you are? It's not us vs. them anymore. At least it's not for me.
This guy has a right to express his opinion just like anyone.
Post by: Anonymous on February 09, 2006, 07:07:00 AM
Ginger, you really are spending way to much time on this site
Post by: Anonymous on February 09, 2006, 07:53:00 AM
Post by: Binky on February 09, 2006, 08:31:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-02-09 03:57:00, Eudora wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-02-08 21:37:00, Father Abraham wrote:
Matt's story is all over the map - and with each post Matt's lies are revealing themselves.
Eudora - you're bending over backward to believe Matt - is it because Paul was on staff?
I'm having a really hard time seeing from your point of view - and it seems that you have a large need for Matt to be right - it's either because you are a friend of Matt's - or that you are in fact - Matt.
You're missing the point (actually, being pretty easily led away from it) I don't need to have perfect purity out of anyone. Human beings are just not like that. 20 year old stories tend to be sketchy in the details.
Here's the diff; Matt disagrees w/ what Paul says, he just says he disagrees. Paule remembers things differently, and he's off writing soap operas about murder and worse. Very familiar! "Don't talk to the staff fuck up! He's dangerous, dangerous! He'll lead you astray! Don't believe him! Don't even listen to him!!!"
:roll:Quote
The defense you're putting up just doesn't stand to reason - I'm confused -
I'm not defending him, dumb ass. I'm talking back to staff. And why not? Most of us are not in group anymore.I think what makes stepcraft survivors different is that we have participated in the Asch Experiment writ large, and know what we (and others)are capable of in that situation.
Johnny G.
"
"Dumb ass" - wassup with that?
You say:
"I'm not defending him, dumb ass. I'm talking back to staff. And why not? Most of us are not in group anymore"
Right, but Matt was also on staff - is it because he smokes pot that makes his part of this excusable? - I understand that he felt betrayed by those around him -- but listening to both sides there was no betrayal -
Matt had a job, didn't do what the company wanted, lost his job and felt hurt
I get that - but the rent thing
He didn't pay his rent and trashed his "friends" cars (all this he said in earlier posts)
So - where are you confronting staff on this - where are you "talking back to staff"
A man doesn't pay his rent - leaves others holding the bag - that's just not right
Also -
All this brings me back to why I don't come around here to often -- it's too full of hate and venom
I was there too '85-'86 - front row - Evans Drive and Lord of the Flies is a very messed up place to be -
We really are like vets from a war
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2006, 08:27:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2006, 05:00:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2006, 05:13:00 PM
Post by: Lost_In_Translation on February 10, 2006, 05:18:00 PM
I can't be here and not think like I'm in group.
I'm reading my own posts and I sound like a psycho. I've said at meetings that if I could meet myself at age 22, I'd beat the shit out of me. I was trying my best in a desperately bad situation, and I'd rather believe I was a good person than realize all over again how seriously blind I can be to my own flaws. Matt feels the same way about himself, I'd wager. I still don't like him though. It sucks to admit that I actually still hate him. Hate and venom, didn't I accuse others of that? Several times? I chased Matt off this forum like a rabid dog, and I have an anger hangover.
Eudora,
I respect what you said, even though it felt like a punch in the face. It took days for it to sink in. I punched you back. I hated you for a moment, too. And I don't even know you.
My nightmare about being unable to stop anything came back. Please, forgive me for making you stand in for Leslie Murden/Suzanne Byrd. It would mean a lot if you could.
I don't know how you remain on these forums, it brings out the worst in me. Perversely, it made me feel better. Cathartic, but in a sick way. Like puking up dry. I'm not as adjusted as I'd like to think I am, but not as crazy as some believe.
Matt, wherever you are, in 1986 you were the most full of shit moocher I ever met. User in the extreme. Enough said. I'm alarmed by how much hatred and anger I felt reading the stuff you wrote. I felt out of control. You wrote shit I hated to hear about who I was, and I went viciously ballistic about who you were, are, and might ever be. I reached for the moral high ground, and it wasn't mine to take. My second private message was sent out of malice. It's all bullshit. Please, erase it. I have. Nobody else has seen it, and I'm ashamed that I wrote it. I think you were out-of-line back then about some serious shit, so I got you fired, and I took satisfaction in it. You left owing a shitload, and I do mean a SHITLOAD of money. But, you didn't owe it all to me. That much cash would still be hard to come up with today. I can see how you would still feel fucked over. Now I know I still feel fucked over too. For the record, I threw your bong out the window, and it bounced off your car. And, I took that "I brake for hallucinations" bumper sticker off the bumper. I hated that fucking thing. It was like a red cape to a bull. That's two things I did to your car. Cosmetic vs. mechanical, but I did it.
I think you're still a dick, but that's your right. Apparently, so am I. There are people here that hate us both, and some that like us. I guess it is, in that way, a bit like group. We were really good friends once. It went seriously wrong. You'll never forgive me, and I'll stop trying to make you. I'll never forgive you either. But I understand it better now.
A couple people reached out to me this week. I appreciate it. I think you meant provide support, but I took it to mean you were on my side. There's no side. I helped a few, and hurt a few. The rest don't give a shit about me. I feel that way about people from my time there too. I'm seriously unresolved about that time in my life.
Can you imagine would might happen if all of us ever got together? I'd fucking drink. Seriously, one or two of you at a time is the most that I can handle.
I wish you all more peace than I feel right now.
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 10, 2006, 05:30:00 PM
I will send you a pm so you know who I am.
Post by: Day Zero on February 10, 2006, 05:42:00 PM
But I know you are not those people anymore, I know none of you wanted to do those things or even allow those things ~out of complacency and "working your program". fact is I no longer care why you did any of it, or who did what or who owes who, etc.. I care about not allowing it to happen to children anymore. Just look at what it created in all of us, We are diffrent, we think diffrent then everyone who wasn't in a St8 like program. We all know it too. And we respond like it, all of us. Even me, who never even complied. They still got in my head, like some kind of dis-ease.. So it is for that reason, I accept what happened and all who played their role. Again, there is a common ground we all walk on, all of us.
This could sorta be like group, except one part! I can say w/e I want. I can speak period.(on day zero, you werent allowed to speak , except when addressed by staff) I CAN SPEAK HERE! and NO ONE will throw me to the floor, and no one WILL JUST WALK BY, like nothing is wrong. I can finally say all the stuff I thought about while I was forced silent for 6.5 months, and boy have I done my share of being pissed off by anyone who was on staff and thought for one minute they were helping kids. I can finally ask, How the hell did you convince yourself it was morally ok to throw kids to the ground for not facing forward or motivating! How was it, you let me sit there for 6.5 months in silence, except when I was being restrained..which was almost daily?
See, it's not like group, because, I can say all that and you know what... I am not bleeding, I am still sitting in my chair, and no one is effing touching me...forcing their will on me. So newp, this isn't group at all :smokin:
Post by: Binky on February 10, 2006, 05:44:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-10 14:30:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
"Paul, even though I called you a mutherfucker(maybe that was a little harsh) a while back I wish you peace too. $tr8 fucked us all up, and I consider that an understatement. Healing from the wounds inflicted by our experience in $tr8 is painful. Peace ?? ... Absolutely, I wish it for you.
I will send you a pm so you know who I am."
Wow -- this is great -
Do I smell a group a hug?
How 'bout a song?
LOL!
Seriously - great wrap up and an end to this portion and these feelings - in this space and time.
I wish all of you -- and all of us Peace - and I hope that Matt & Paul find the peace with this that I know all to well is almost impossible to find - at least in this life --
Karma's a funny thing too --
Anyway - I got something really important out of this - specifically Paul's comment:
"You'll never forgive me, and I'll stop trying to make you. I'll never forgive you either. But I understand it better now."
Speaks to me about something I've gone through/am going through -
Life's a funny thing -
Peace
Post by: Day Zero on February 10, 2006, 05:48:00 PM
Quote
"You'll never forgive me, and I'll stop trying to make you. I'll never forgive you either. But I understand it better now."
That is called: For the highest good. That is where I am trying to come from also. I can be a lil' rough around the edges though. :razz:
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 10, 2006, 05:49:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2006, 06:13:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2006, 06:31:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 10, 2006, 07:09:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2006, 08:06:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-10 14:48:00, Day Zero wrote:
"Quote"You'll never forgive me, and I'll stop trying to make you. I'll never forgive you either. But I understand it better now."
That is called: For the highest good. That is where I am trying to come from also. I can be a lil' rough around the edges though. ::unhappy:: ::both:: ::both::
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2006, 08:18:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2006, 08:19:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2006, 08:33:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2006, 08:46:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2006, 08:55:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2006, 08:57:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2006, 10:06:00 PM
i never really recovered from that while i was up there....i got that car right before i was fired,didn't have the tranfer money...didn't have a paycheck for awhile....then i got arrested for
driving w/o a registration.....and my problems just mounted from there....got pulled over again 13 days later....between rent and that and everything else in my fucked up head....lost my job so i couldn't pay my bills....i couldn't drive to work!...shit,i fell apart....i should've never gone up there....then sylvia and dean couldn't have worked thier magic on me.....and you and everyone else!i didn't mean to hurt your feelings.....its just that after i started writing about that time,all the old feelings came up in me again.....geez,paul,i didn't have anyone to really vent that shit out with.....who was i going to trust?jupiter jim?you?mike? dean? sylvia?
i was honestly all by myself......you guys wouldn't even look me in the eyes....guilt? i think so....i percieved it as a personal sabatoge
and went on a rampage.....and eventually a year later said f-it....i should've just gone home after that happened,but i was embarrassed and wanted to go home with my head held high....paul,it never was to happen.....mentally,i went down a bad road....what happened to me up there just about killed me......no,i don't hate you anymore,i don't think you're a dick either.....you have the right to think what you want about me....but for my sanity,i chose to forgive you for everything! i know some of you don't "do" the god and jesus thing,but i do....i went to confession and told everything to god that i could think of....do i feel better? no,not really..not yet anyways....but i guess i will in the future.....
as for me,the fornits drama is over....my counselor/doctor told me its not healthy for me..
at least for awhile i won't be on anymore....hope everyone had a little fun.....yeah,i see a counselor....because of all the crap that happened in str8 and afterwards,against my own feelings,{after the shit we endured in straight}i have been going for 3 years....i wasn't in there just for 28 1/2 months.....i was in there a lot longer....6 1/2 years of involvement.....the way it ended for me in boston,took a lot out of me.....honestly i never got it all back....i want to take this time to thank everyone .....kevin w.
my newcomer,...well,everyone! all of you are welcome to go to my concert...i'll keep you posted
right now,i'm very stressed out! i just need some time to heal.....hippie
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2006, 10:23:00 PM
over 2 staff members fighting online! i wasn't really ever a staff member....just a regularly abused phaser who had a chance to be one but it never got off the ground....i wasn't "groomed"
for staff like the rest.....just a huckleberry phaser that thought he could make a difference in the "new improved"straight....i was just fooling myself! the reason i did try to be a staff member
was because i didn't know anything else! i had no high school or college diploma...just a ged....and i loved to help ppl....i couldn't "do" college....it was sitting in another plastic chair for me,so being on staff to me, was an opportunity to get into the field w/o college! it was a huge mistake! huge......i'm very embarrassed i even tried a "hand at it"....hippie
Post by: Anonymous on February 10, 2006, 10:42:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 11, 2006, 12:01:00 AM
"Watch yer top knot".(That's from the film Jeremiah Johnson)
Post by: Lost_In_Translation on February 11, 2006, 12:04:00 AM
I sent this to Matt privately, but I'm posting it here with a few deletes. Hope you don't mind, Matt. Let's take this conversation off-line.
---------------------------------------------
Well you know what, Matt? I am a dick. It's a role I play sometimes. It's not often lately that the role plays me, know what I mean? A guy that worked with me had the title "king of the shit stirrers". I'd suspect he learned a little of it from me.
I'd like to hear from you. I'll probably cry. I'm such a pussy. I miss being friends with you. Polar opposite pain in the ass that you are.
I think your gay bashing got me worked up. Three guys in my life have been gay, and were good role models. An artist, who showed me "my own thing" has virtue. One at work who tought me to be nice to people and listen. One was a minister and got railroaded a bit by the church even though he was celibate. He heard my confessions, but they were really a several year conversation about god. Motivation means something completely different in the real world. I have to try hard to achieve balance.
I tried being perfect. You should see my sock drawer. Anal Retentive does not begin to describe it. Seven years of therapy and now I do laundry like it's just dirty clothes. But I do the whole house full, like clockwork every sunday, without fail.
I suppose I should thank you, much as it pisses me off to do so. I had to re-look at all this. I feared being hated, rejected and despised. Not enough experience with it. You got the flip side, Matt. It WAS a witch hunt. You were a stranger here, with seriously strange ways, for new staff and new supervisors to deal with. You were threatening in hard to explain ways to some. I got tired of exlaining you. Sylvia was a bitch, but we never gave her a chance. She had a PhD, MSW, zeal, skills. We were so fucking stupid about everything. We could have actually LEARNED something, but we went us vs. them on everybody. We broke her. 6 years of college, 20 years on the job and we tore her ass up. She's DAMAGED. I wonder what her back-story was. Jim Murray? He hired real AA people and we tortured them too. He stopped trying to save many, and adopted just one. I hope it worked.
You could be such a tenacious pain in the fucking balls about EVERYTHING. #1 typical Matt tactic: "I disagree, so I'll talk or do nothing until you die of frustration, boredom or both".
Go to law school. Fight The Man. You'd drive Karl Rove to eat a bullet. How? by becoming a Republican Operative.
You'd leave dishes for 5 days in the sink and my sense of order would be destroyed. That Bumper Sticker! You have no idea, it was so much worse than the bong, incense, whatever. I hope you're laughing when you read this dickhead. You drove me insane, and you were barely trying.
I think Straight has two classes of survivors, people who blame others, and people who blame themselves. It's a generalization, I know, but almost everyone I remember falls on one side of that line or the other. Tamper with their perception of how they relate to that line, and bad shit happens. Damn, brother. I trashed you hard. I'm horrified at myself. I live on both sides of that line. But daily living compels me to pick one side and stay there. My side of the line says, "if I did it to myself, then I'm not a victim". But shit happened TO me, as well. You rubbed my nose in it. Sucks.
My neighbor is one of my best friends. He is a folk musician, has a '66 Mustang, used to grow grass behind his garage, and he's teaching my son to play guitar. Thought you'd get a kick out of that. Karma.
You've got my contact info.
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 07:17:00 AM
Your therapist is right, this is fucked up. I actually got my therapist to pull out his laptop and showed him some of this shit. He downplayed it but i bet you fifty bucks he spent his afternoon reading it. If a complete stranger finds this rift between the two of you interesting, imagine how it feels to us that are "in the know". Neither of I want you to go away, you just need to finish resolving your crap and check in here once and awhile and see how other people are doing and say hi to each other. This site does not have to be melodramatic and probably will not after you guys are done fighting. Everyone will go back to stupid attention getting posts. This is the most real time I have ever seen this site. Hippie, nobody here is drooling over your fight. Certainly watching with interest, but if anything is true, you guys are both emotional exhibitionists(just like old times). I think everyone should go to matt's concert this summer, but everyone has to agree to check their firearms in at the door. Anyway, neither of you should go away. Just accept interest in this site as reflectivity of how you spent some of your life a long time ago, and realize you will never get away from it so incorporate a little of into yourself. Post something reflective evry once and awhile, smile at it sometimes when you think about it, laugh out loud, offer to help people here if they need it and want it. You will not find anybody else out there that will understand this part of your life so dont cut it out. Who is going to matts concert, and does anyone know where to hire bodyguards?
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 12:38:00 PM
this happened way too many times to be a coincedence....i lost count after 23 times!even after i QUIT driving i got screwed with!Assachusetts was a real bad experience for me...
i hardly go up there anymore....{i have my moms whole family up there}....anyways,i know i said i won't write on here,but who am i going to tell/answer/ask in thr real world? no one!...so don't worry,i'll be on here again and again! paul wrote me back and i feel better now....thank you all for reading.....see you soon....hippie
{you know the strangest part of all this is to me,is that for a very "liberal"state,i was f-ed with unbelievably....like a communist regime was at the helm of the whole state!there was NOTHING
liberal about that state!don't you believe john kerry or ted kennedy....there f-ing liars!i've lived all over the world and i've never seen the likes of what i experienced in Assachusetts anywhere else i've lived!....even crazier is the fact that while living in ASSACHUSETTS,i went to a rainbow gathering in N.carolina,got pulled over and didn't get arrested for driving under suspended license/default warrents etc! they didn't exist other than ASSACHUSETTS!....was STRAIGHT behind all that? up until a good friend of mine posed that question to me recently,i NEVER gave it any thought!}...hip {again}
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 01:04:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 01:06:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 11, 2006, 04:12:00 PM
Matt - be sure to remind us of the date and any pertinent details we might need to know about when the time comes.
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 05:11:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 05:37:00 PM
to think it was just a f-ed up drug program,to me anymore,is not possible! i learned a lot from this situation, that i didn't even know about!
between what Paul and i argued about and what i had privatly sent to me on this topic,i don't think the same things about straight that i used to.....not anymore!in a sense,i'm glad that i went through this.....i was able to connect the dots....between what i knew and what i found out,
everything that happened to me were made a 100% more understandable!i'm not telling you to walk around paranoid of everything around you,but just beware!tell me,where did all the money go?lawsuites only account for a very small fraction of what they made off of our parents over the last 30 years!who got the money?who would stand the chance of benifitting from that money?and no,i don't buy its a democrate vs. republican thing....not anymore!this goes way deeper than that!just to think that an "organization" called "straight inc." had the power and the money to stomp or smear me the way they did is unreal!REMEMBER,i was in a VERY DEMOCRATE STATE!!! ASSACHUSETTS,no matter if the whole country voted republican,votes democrate!{this happened in fact, in 1972...the rest of the country voted for nixon....ASSACHUSETTS voted for mc govern!.....if the "straight inc" thing is so republican,then how and why did ASSACHUSETTS and thier "representitives" ALLOW such a republican thing to exist and work with them? only the ppl running that state would have given "straight inc." such power and clout!they,{and i just talked to Paul on the phone for 3-4 hours}watched me,spied on me,and tried like hell to ruin me and damn near killed me!we are both very blown away...
in our talk,we connected the dots even more!....
no,i'm not paranoid.i'm just unbelievably in awe of what i found out!i can't explain everything in words right now,but i promise all of you that when i do have the words to explain to you what i know,i'll tell you! ok?cool.....by the way,any of you that think antigen,endora etc is paranoid,she's not...niether is froderick or starry.......i now see and know somthing i always thought but didn't want to believe.i know somthing i'm going to have a hard time explaining to even them,so them understand!....thanks everybody.....i feel like a huge stone was taken out of my shoe....hippie
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 06:15:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 11, 2006, 06:35:00 PM
WOOO-HOOO!!!! ::bigsmilebounce::
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 06:37:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 06:44:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 06:46:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-11 15:44:00, Anonymous wrote:Excellent point, Smithers.
"Shit Fuck"
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 06:51:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 06:55:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 06:57:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-11 15:55:00, Anonymous wrote:Shut the fuck up, you corny fucker. :lol:
"I knew it would take no time for the bozos to reappear. It must be a kind of steamletting because you guys had to endure so much actual feeling and healing. Go bang a cheerio dickhead."
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 06:58:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 07:00:00 PM
Post by: teachback on February 11, 2006, 07:01:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-11 15:46:00, Anonymous wrote:
"QuoteExcellent point, Smithers."
On 2006-02-11 15:44:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Shit Fuck"
:nworthy:
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 07:02:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-11 16:00:00, Anonymous wrote:*YAWN* zz z zzzzzz z zzz
"1973 was a cool time. I banged your mom all year."
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 07:02:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 07:11:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 07:17:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 07:18:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-11 16:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Franky! What up my nigga! :tup: "
SB, how the hell are ya?
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 07:20:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 07:29:00 PM
:tup:
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 10:32:00 PM
Post by: teachback on February 11, 2006, 11:06:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 11:15:00 PM
I don't hate the guy or want him banned or anything like that. I didn't say I wasn't going to post nor did I suggest that to anyone else. It just gets old that's all.
Post by: teachback on February 11, 2006, 11:34:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 11, 2006, 11:38:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-11 20:34:00, Frank Discussion wrote:
"Hell, don't feel too bad...I'm sure that Frod & RTP will be back....anyway, it's Saturday night! Maybe there'll be another real thread tomorrow, you never know.
I'm sure there will be and I'll be there. :smile:
Quote
Btw, I liked your, "Go bang a cheerio" line..that got a laugh out of me. "
Huh? I'm confused.
Post by: Anonymous on February 12, 2006, 12:35:00 AM
Post by: teachback on February 12, 2006, 12:40:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 12, 2006, 01:16:00 AM
Post by: RTP2003 on February 12, 2006, 05:37:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-11 20:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
Damn, I miss RTP!!!!!!!! His stuff, along with Frod and a few others was at least funny.
Awww, that's sweet! Thanks, I've been busy communing with malevolent aliens and doing amateur accupuncture in my spare time, but I promise I'll share my unique brand of dope-feuled wisdom to this forum again soon.
Post by: Anonymous on February 12, 2006, 05:44:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-12 14:37:00, RTP2003 wrote:
I promise I'll share my unique brand of dope-feuled wisdom to this forum again soon. "
?
Post by: Antigen on February 12, 2006, 06:16:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-09 05:31:00, Father Abraham wrote:
Right, but Matt was also on staff
Good point. So then that can't be the reason why I disagree w/ Paul and the other Super Straightlings, can it? In fact, I'm pretty good friends w/ Richard Bradburry and a few other former staffers as well. Hmmmm what can it be??
When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
--
Anonymous . . . for obvious reasons
Post by: Antigen on February 12, 2006, 06:22:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-10 14:18:00, Paul_Meyer wrote:
Eudora,
I respect what you said, even though it felt like a punch in the face. It took days for it to sink in. I punched you back. I hated you for a moment, too. And I don't even know you.
My nightmare about being unable to stop anything came back. Please, forgive me for making you stand in for Leslie Murden/Suzanne Byrd. It would mean a lot if you could.
Regardless of whatever I may read in the next half hour or so, please know that it's alright. I'm sorry I was so harsh and mean spirited. I'll try and be a little nicer.
"The Libertarian Party is a coalition of those who hold dear the economic freedoms championed by conservatives, yet abandoned by Republicans, and the civil freedoms championed by liberals, yet abandoned by Democrats."
--Rick Root
Post by: Antigen on February 12, 2006, 09:35:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-11 04:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
This is the most real time I have ever seen this site.
Me too :nworthy:
It's a damn poor mind that can think of only one way to spell a word! --
--Andrew Jackson
Post by: StoughtonGrad89 on February 13, 2006, 12:15:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2006, 12:01:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2006, 02:31:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-13 09:01:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Still wondering how the conflict between hippie and paul played out. Will paul be going to matt's concert?"
ha ha ha ha ha.
shut the fuck up.
Post by: Anonymous on February 13, 2006, 02:46:00 PM
what i found out about what happened to me up there is still mind blowing in the atomic bomb kind of way to both of us! he was played by them like jimi hendrix plays a guitar!and in so many words,he admitted to everyone that it was a personal witch hunt on me by the str8 in stoughton.....i'm not mad at him anymore....i really can't be! he didn't know they were setting him up to hump me!i believe that dean and sylvia
used him to get rid of me....told him to look for unusual stuff to report me for and then used it to get me fired!like i said,those jerks didn't want me there to start with and needed to manipulate the staff against me to do so....it worked!...i'll be letting you in on what happened really,when i sort it all out!....Paul was used and manipulated just like all of us were....until just a week ago,he still believed what they told him because when i was up there,i never got a chance to explain myself,and they had damaged me so bad,that they wouldn't have believed me anyways
think about your time in there...were you ever accused/convicted of somthing that wasn't your fault or you weren't guilty of?....your accusers
were conditioned to believe any excutive staff member right?...well,thats what happened to Paul!
if that had been me they asked to watch him,i'd probably have "done my duty" also! we all would've! it was "helping the person out"...you know?....hippie
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 13, 2006, 02:55:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on February 13, 2006, 04:12:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-13 11:46:00, stillahippie564 wrote:
if that had been me they asked to watch him,i'd probably have "done my duty" also! we all would've! it was "helping the person out"...you know?....hippie
Well, some would, some wouldn't. But when yenz who would have start breaking the no talkin to splits, pull offs and fuck ups rule and compare notes, it all falls apart. That's the real reason for the rule, ya know.
RAMPANT talking out in group, brothers and sisters!
Religion is all bunk.
--Thomas Edison, American inventor
Post by: Antigen on March 03, 2006, 07:48:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-02-11 04:17:00, Anonymous wrote:
Who is going to matts concert, and does anyone know where to hire bodyguards?
I'm planning on it for sure, along w/ my family and very big, very friendly shepherd/lab, who instinctively plays ref w/ remarkable acumen and subtlty. I sincerely look fwd to meeting you guys and would be glad to let you hang out near my good dog as long as it takes till you're pretty sure nobody there is out to get you.
Bigot: One fanatically devoted to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and intolerant of those who differ.
Webster's
Post by: BROWNIE on June 06, 2006, 10:04:00 AM
Post by: BROWNIE on June 06, 2006, 10:17:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on June 07, 2006, 09:32:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on June 18, 2006, 01:16:00 PM
Post by: BROWNIE on June 19, 2006, 09:43:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on June 19, 2006, 02:32:00 PM
Post by: BROWNIE on June 19, 2006, 03:27:00 PM
Post by: BROWNIE on June 19, 2006, 03:30:00 PM
Post by: BROWNIE on June 19, 2006, 04:26:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on June 19, 2006, 05:58:00 PM
Use 'em or don't. It was just a suggestion. Goddamn. ::noway::
Post by: funster on July 31, 2006, 11:00:54 AM
Post by: dragonfly on December 20, 2014, 10:18:37 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on December 23, 2014, 01:05:52 PM
Post by: hardhead on January 10, 2015, 10:43:15 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on February 16, 2015, 03:39:12 PM