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Topics - Troll Control

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16
Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Well, we thought we'd never see this, but Ed Cons are now recommending that no kids should be sent to ANY Aspen Education facilities due to concerns over safety and quality:

Quote from: "Family Light"
FamilyLight now recommends against referring to or enrolling in any Aspen or CRC Health school or program due to what the closing of New Leaf of North Carolina says about the value system of that company.

Quote from: "Tom Croake, Ed Con"
Enough, Already! -- Aspen Again
   
             
 On Tuesday, May 11, 2010, I received a phone call from a management person in the Aspen organization.  This is unusual.   Aspen officials don’t usually  phone me. But this is a person I knew and trusted.  She knew I did not like her employer.  She also knew I had the highest regard for her.   The message:  New Leaf of North Carolina was closing.   Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital had decided that only one program was needed in the organization serving the market of New Leaf.  The North Carolina program would close and the property used to upgrade the program for Aspergers kids.  The girls (and their parents) to whom Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital had committed to see them through the treatment process would need to relocate.  But now Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital saw what they believe is an opportunity to increase their profit margins, so they will disrupt the lives of the girls currently enrolled at New Leaf.

I no longer believe that it would be a responsible action for any professional referring person or any parent or any other person to place enroll any person or oneself in any facility operated by or affiliated in any way with Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital.  FamilyLight sm now solidly recommends against use of . any such program, school, or facility. This includes Wellspring Weight Loss Academies.  (This does NOT refer to Wellspring in Bethlehem Connecticut, which is not affiliated with Aspen.)  

It appears to me, after hearing this, that Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital is concerned only about its profit margin and will subordinate the interest of the people in their schools and treatment centers toward that end.  I was naïve.  I never should have been surprised.  Several weeks ago I posted on our website, in our review of Aspen Education,  the following:

CRC Health Group, controlling the Aspen brand name, is not just a for-profit organization but it is owned by a private investment firm Bain Capital with a fiduciary responsibility to maximize return on investment.  The reality is that the best care in therapeutic facilities is not necessarily the care that produces the greatest return on investment. We would like to  hear a commitment directly from Bain Capital that they have directed  CRC Health Group to provide the highest quality of care they can, observing that while short-term financial gains might result from taking shortcuts, the long term best financial performance will result from delivering the highest quality services with the highest standards of ethics.

When I posted that, I naively assumed that Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital actually could make that kind of commitment and live by it.  I thought that because there were (and still are) essentially good programs, managed by competent caring people, we could place confidence in some such programs. New Leaf of North Carolina was one such program.  It was under the very capable leadership of Catherine “Cat” Jennings, one of the very best of the best in this business.  It was a superior quality program.  

About three weeks prior to the phone call I just referred to (on May 11),  I had spoken by phone with Cat Jennings, being very honest about my concerns about Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital.    I said, “Cat, I am still willing to support New Leaf NC, but here is my concern.  I could refer a young lady to your program tomorrow, based upon my confidence in you.  Then in two weeks Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital could terminate your employment and the girl would be committed to that program, while the reason for confidence in it was gone.”  She replied that it could not happen.   Three weeks later all of their girls are being uprooted and the program is closing.

To be clear, while we were saddened by other closings of other Aspen programs, we could rationalize them as not confirming this kind of value system.  We were told Cedars was running extreme losses that were not sustainable and there was no way to turn that around. Same with Excel Academy in Texas.   We did not like how the shutdown was handled at Cedars but we gave Aspen the benefit of the doubt.  Mt. Bachelor and Sagewalk were closed by order of the State of Oregon without due process.  

In the case of Mt. Bachelor, if press reports were accurate, I was (to put it mildly) puzzled by the apparent willingness of Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital to allow procedures to be in place at Mt. Bachelor which were the kinds of procedures that had motivated Congressman Miller's push for tighter regulation of the industry.  We had questions about the judgment of a company that would have allowed themselves to be vulnerable to that.

So while we were highly critical of Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital over that, we again gave the benefit of the doubt as to how this concern might affect suitability of higher quality programs operated by Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital.   We no longer believe it is responsible to give the benefit of the doubt, after the choice by the company voluntarily to disrupt the lives of the very vulnerable girls they had committed to care for -- girls enrolled in one Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital's highest quality schools.  

Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital complained bitterly about the disruption to the students at Mt. Bachelor Academy when the State of Oregon shut that school down.  But by choice, they now do the same thing to the New Leaf students for the sake of a few dollars profit.  

To our dismay, superior professionals, Karen Fitzhugh, Frank Bartolomeo, Catherine Jennings, Jim Dredge, and John Singleton are either either gone from Aspen or have been taken from the assignment where they had proven their effectiveness.  Marc Dornfeld, Patty Evans, Jack Kline and the people who made the decision to close this program remain in their positions.  We think this  speaks directly to the value system that drives Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital.  We think this tells us why we should not trust this company with our children.  

We do not want this to be interpreted as a boycott where we would drop the concern if Aspen were to take corrective action, i.e. reversing the decision to close New Leaf of North Carolina.  That is not what we are doing.  We simply do not believe these are appropriate venues for kids (or adults), based upon the recent behavior of the management at Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital.  Of course we would consider changing our view if policy changes and personnel changes were to occur.  We would want reason for confidence that the profit motivation would not in the future lead to decisions detrimental to the students/ clients/ program residents. We fear that is unlikely with the present management at CRC Health Group and so long as Bain Capital manages  Aspen and  CRC Health Group for short term gain and appear not to consider the proper treatment of the population served in their facilities
 

Ouch.  Fucking ouch!

Looks like Aspen may be circling the drain and is losing the PR war.  With Whooter as a field general, that shouldn't surprise anyone!

17
Well, we thought we'd never see this, but Ed Cons are now recommending that no kids should be sent to ANY Aspen Education facilities due to concerns over safety and quality:

Quote from: "Family Light"
FamilyLight now recommends against referring to or enrolling in any Aspen or CRC Health school or program due to what the closing of New Leaf of North Carolina says about the value system of that company.

Quote from: "Tom Croake, Ed Con"
Enough, Already! -- Aspen Again
   
             
 On Tuesday, May 11, 2010, I received a phone call from a management person in the Aspen organization.  This is unusual.   Aspen officials don’t usually  phone me. But this is a person I knew and trusted.  She knew I did not like her employer.  She also knew I had the highest regard for her.   The message:  New Leaf of North Carolina was closing.   Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital had decided that only one program was needed in the organization serving the market of New Leaf.  The North Carolina program would close and the property used to upgrade the program for Aspergers kids.  The girls (and their parents) to whom Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital had committed to see them through the treatment process would need to relocate.  But now Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital saw what they believe is an opportunity to increase their profit margins, so they will disrupt the lives of the girls currently enrolled at New Leaf.

I no longer believe that it would be a responsible action for any professional referring person or any parent or any other person to place enroll any person or oneself in any facility operated by or affiliated in any way with Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital.  FamilyLight sm now solidly recommends against use of . any such program, school, or facility. This includes Wellspring Weight Loss Academies.  (This does NOT refer to Wellspring in Bethlehem Connecticut, which is not affiliated with Aspen.)  

It appears to me, after hearing this, that Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital is concerned only about its profit margin and will subordinate the interest of the people in their schools and treatment centers toward that end.  I was naïve.  I never should have been surprised.  Several weeks ago I posted on our website, in our review of Aspen Education,  the following:

CRC Health Group, controlling the Aspen brand name, is not just a for-profit organization but it is owned by a private investment firm Bain Capital with a fiduciary responsibility to maximize return on investment.  The reality is that the best care in therapeutic facilities is not necessarily the care that produces the greatest return on investment. We would like to  hear a commitment directly from Bain Capital that they have directed  CRC Health Group to provide the highest quality of care they can, observing that while short-term financial gains might result from taking shortcuts, the long term best financial performance will result from delivering the highest quality services with the highest standards of ethics.

When I posted that, I naively assumed that Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital actually could make that kind of commitment and live by it.  I thought that because there were (and still are) essentially good programs, managed by competent caring people, we could place confidence in some such programs. New Leaf of North Carolina was one such program.  It was under the very capable leadership of Catherine “Cat” Jennings, one of the very best of the best in this business.  It was a superior quality program.  

About three weeks prior to the phone call I just referred to (on May 11),  I had spoken by phone with Cat Jennings, being very honest about my concerns about Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital.    I said, “Cat, I am still willing to support New Leaf NC, but here is my concern.  I could refer a young lady to your program tomorrow, based upon my confidence in you.  Then in two weeks Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital could terminate your employment and the girl would be committed to that program, while the reason for confidence in it was gone.”  She replied that it could not happen.   Three weeks later all of their girls are being uprooted and the program is closing.

To be clear, while we were saddened by other closings of other Aspen programs, we could rationalize them as not confirming this kind of value system.  We were told Cedars was running extreme losses that were not sustainable and there was no way to turn that around. Same with Excel Academy in Texas.   We did not like how the shutdown was handled at Cedars but we gave Aspen the benefit of the doubt.  Mt. Bachelor and Sagewalk were closed by order of the State of Oregon without due process.  

In the case of Mt. Bachelor, if press reports were accurate, I was (to put it mildly) puzzled by the apparent willingness of Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital to allow procedures to be in place at Mt. Bachelor which were the kinds of procedures that had motivated Congressman Miller's push for tighter regulation of the industry.  We had questions about the judgment of a company that would have allowed themselves to be vulnerable to that.

So while we were highly critical of Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital over that, we again gave the benefit of the doubt as to how this concern might affect suitability of higher quality programs operated by Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital.   We no longer believe it is responsible to give the benefit of the doubt, after the choice by the company voluntarily to disrupt the lives of the very vulnerable girls they had committed to care for -- girls enrolled in one Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital's highest quality schools.  

Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital complained bitterly about the disruption to the students at Mt. Bachelor Academy when the State of Oregon shut that school down.  But by choice, they now do the same thing to the New Leaf students for the sake of a few dollars profit.  

To our dismay, superior professionals, Karen Fitzhugh, Frank Bartolomeo, Catherine Jennings, Jim Dredge, and John Singleton are either either gone from Aspen or have been taken from the assignment where they had proven their effectiveness.  Marc Dornfeld, Patty Evans, Jack Kline and the people who made the decision to close this program remain in their positions.  We think this  speaks directly to the value system that drives Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital.  We think this tells us why we should not trust this company with our children.  

We do not want this to be interpreted as a boycott where we would drop the concern if Aspen were to take corrective action, i.e. reversing the decision to close New Leaf of North Carolina.  That is not what we are doing.  We simply do not believe these are appropriate venues for kids (or adults), based upon the recent behavior of the management at Aspen/ CRC Health Group/ Bain Capital.  Of course we would consider changing our view if policy changes and personnel changes were to occur.  We would want reason for confidence that the profit motivation would not in the future lead to decisions detrimental to the students/ clients/ program residents. We fear that is unlikely with the present management at CRC Health Group and so long as Bain Capital manages  Aspen and  CRC Health Group for short term gain and appear not to consider the proper treatment of the population served in their facilities
 

Ouch.  Fucking ouch!

Looks like Aspen may be circling the drain and is losing the PR war.  With Whooter as a field general, that shouldn't surprise anyone!

18
Quote from: "Behrens Study"
These final results indicated that adolescents who
had lower levels of psycho-social symptoms at admission (adolescent report), the absence of a
mood disorder, a positive experience in the program, a sense that their problems had improved,
and parents who were satisfied with the program were more likely to report positive outcomes at
discharge from residential treatment.

Well, there goes the "programs help kids with severe problems - too severe for local treatment" angle.

The kids who self-reported to have improved had no severe problems to begin with, no mood disorders and parents who were satisfied with their purchase.

So, the more or less "normal teens" showed improvement but the ones with real problems were pulled by their parents because they weren't improving or dropped from the program because they were accepted even though the program had no ability to help them (26% of participants).

Also keep in mind there has never been any follow up to determine if any of these results were lasting.  Previous research has shown severe degradation of results beginning immediately after discharge.

19
Open Free for All / Los Angeles
« on: July 23, 2010, 01:01:01 PM »
I'm going to be in Los Angeles next week on business if any of you jokers want to have a few drinks and shoot the breeze.  Visiting with a couple of Fornitscators already, but anyone else is welcome.  PM me for details.

20
Aspen Education Group / Programs In Behrens Study Charged with Abuse
« on: July 23, 2010, 12:14:01 PM »
We all know about Mount Bachelor Academy's recent closure due to child abuse and neglect and that Aspen Education has claimed in court that it provides no therapy.  

MBA was one of the programs that was studied in Behrens' work.  The fact that MBA was closed for abusing children and that Behrens concluded MBA was "effective" despite offering no therapy and abusing hundreds of children is terribly troubling to say the least.

Here's a list of the all of the programs she looked at:

Academy at Swift River, Aspen Ranch, Copper Canyon Academy, Mount Bachelor Academy, Stone Mountain School, Pine Ridge Academy, SunHawk Academy,Turnabout Ranch, and Youth Care, Inc.

Academy at Swift River has been cited by state authorities for child abuse.  

How many of the others have been as well?  Are there any untainted entities in this study?

22
Programs provide an opportunity for pedophiles to prey on your children.  The lack of background checks, oversight and accountability are a pedophile's dream and a child's nightmare.

A pedohphile program owner with Lon Woodbury's "stamp of approval" for the utmost "safety" of the girls in his "care" is sentenced to 45 years in prison for raping and molesting said girls.  This is just a single example of dozens.

PARENTS BEWARE that just because some program proponents say programs are safe and even run businesses to promote them like Lon Woodbury does, doesn't mean your kid will not be the victim of dangerous pedophiles who lurk around these facilities in the employ of them, in fact.

When program pimps openly state that they view your child as a "product" what makes you think they give a damn about anything other than money?  Think about it.

23
Open Free for All / Is This Where New Program Staff Will Come From?
« on: July 06, 2010, 01:06:58 PM »
Glenn Beck University.

Can't wait to see the GBU diplomas showing up on the TTI websites.  :beat:  :roflmao:

24
Open Free for All / Doggie Orthopedic Surgery
« on: July 03, 2010, 01:47:18 PM »
Anyone here ever have to have their pooch's ACL/MCL/meniscus repaired surgically?  If so, can you tell me how the convalescence and rehab went?  

I guess our poor little girl (she's only three) will be rehabbing/recovering for 6-8 weeks from a torn ACL and whatever else they find blown out when they open it up.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

25
Open Free for All / Tokyo? Odawara Anyone?
« on: May 19, 2010, 01:51:51 PM »
Going to be in Tokyo Saturday and Sunday and Odawara M-Th and back in Tokyo Friday.  Flight home Saturday.

Any of you fellow Fornitscators currently in the Land of the Rising Sun?

26
Open Free for All / Lakes Region, NH??
« on: April 19, 2010, 09:46:33 PM »
I'm here in Wolfeboro all week if any of you folks are nearby and want to get together for a drink or two...

27
The Troubled Teen Industry / TTI Insider: "Children Have No Rights"
« on: April 07, 2010, 10:07:24 AM »
Quote from: "Whooter"
(Children) don’t (and in my opinion shouldn’t) have childrens rights.

Interesting.

Quote from: "Whooter"
I dont believe children have any rights.

So you've said.

Quote from: "Whooter"
(T)he kids don’t have any rights.

We get it already.

Quote from: "Whooter"
The people in straight were right on this aspect...the kids didn’t have any rights.

Just in case we didn't hear you before?

Quote from: "Whooter"
You think I am really, really fucked up because I dont believe children have rights.

You bet I do.

This mindset that children have no rights is the linchpin in the TTI philosophy.  TTI players like Whooter use this premise to objectify children and thusly treat them as less than human.

Please discuss.

28
Aspen Education Group / Whooter - Gutless, Nutless Coward
« on: March 10, 2010, 10:18:45 AM »
I would have preferred to handle this matter privately, but since Whooter is a complete coward, I cannot do so.  

Whooter has now taken to harassing me via PM, sending me "nastygrams" by PM, but lacking sufficient balls to allow responses.  He can dish it out, but he can't take it, a fact with which I think everyone here is familiar.  Since Whooter has blocked PM responses, I will respond publicly and I think everyone will have a clearer idea of how sick, petty and immature Whooter really is.
************************************************************************

Quote from: "Whooter"
Hey DJ

“Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: FriJun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent”

I really wish I had seen your face when I slowly revealed that June 6, 2007 was a Wednesday not a Friday.  You are so naive to think you could convince everyone I wrote that email (you fabricated) but you fucked up big time (as you always end up doing) and I blew your own thread out of the water (once again, you must have screamed and raved for hours).  We both know who the liar is DJ and it is sweet watching you jump around in your desperation trying to prove I am “This Rueben guy” (lol) when we both know it can never happen because I am just a login name on the internet.  I am your worst nightmare and you cant get rid of me no matter how hard you try (or lie).  Take a look at your last 10 or so posts… you have turned into a troll and you cant stand that I am interacting and discussing with everyone while you have to stand on the sidelines and just read without any “value added” input.

You and Anne should join forces.  She is almost as sharp as you are !!  


Bump… lol



...
********************************************************************************

Quote from: "Dysfunction Junction"
Wow, this message is quite revealing now, isn't it?  You've made some factual errors, so let me address those first.  

I am not the poster "concerned parent."  You seem to want to believe I am, but you are incorrect.  I believe you have previously stated that this poster was RobertBruce and also Ajax13.  I also have only a single login and have never, ever posted under any other user name.  That's a fact.  Your uulations don't change anything.

All I am doing is simply pointing out that you are not who you represent yourself to be and that you have proven before, through your own posts, that you are a liar.  Because you are not very bright and because you are impulsive and sloppy, you've essentially "told on yourself" many times.  When I point this out, it seems to enrage you.  I only wonder why you're so angry at me, when it was in fact you who posted the obvious lies that I am just pointing out to readers.

I do believe you have some serious mental health problems.  I can't see why anyone would do and say the things you do and say if they had a healthy, fully functional mind.  But that's your problem to deal with, not mine.  

If reading my posts makes you so upset that you feel like you need to harass me via PM, I'd suggest you quit reading them.  It seems you have some strong need to "one up" me, but that will never heppen, Whooter.  You are clearly damaged goods and clearly not my intellectual peer and you never will be.  Your venom toward me comes from your own inadequacy and anger at being exposed as a fraud.  Your smug arrogance does not fool me -indeed, I see right through it.  I see a man who suffers under the psychological weight of being an utter failure; a person who never made his own way in the world; a person who was born on third base believing he hit a triple, but who was never able to make it to home plate.  You obviously are a lousy father.  Your work record shows you're virtually unemployable.  Your education is high school level at best.  Are you just jealous of me or something?  Maybe so, considering I am more than twice the man you'll ever be, intellectually and physically.

No matter how much you'd like to believe that other people, like me or like Anne Bonney, live in petty, twisted little worlds like you obviously do, you are actually alone there, sitting in a pile of your own excrement, leading your meaningless life.  Let's face it, Whooter, the shining acheivement of your sad, unfulfilling, phony life is your trolling of Fornits.  How unfortunate for you.

But, alas, when I hit the "submit" button, the coward Whooter hid behind his account settings:
Quote
Some users couldn’t be added as they have disabled private message receipt.

Not only is Whooter an abject liar and failure, he's also gutless and nutless.

Obviously, my factual commentary about Whooter has struck a serious nerve, and it wouldn't have if it were untrue.  The truth hurts and Whooter is obviously hurting.

29
Aspen Education Group / Summary: Devastating Indictment of TheWho
« on: November 30, 2009, 03:01:05 PM »
Here's the devasting indictment of TheWho which absolutely shreds his credibility, complete with quotes and links proving beyond a doubt that TheWho is an unmitigated liar.  Dialogue picks up where Whooter claims the OP cannot prove even the first statement about him, but the OP goes on to prove every one of them:

Quote from: "Guest"
Heck, I'll just go for all of them to save time.

Rebuttal section:

Quote from: "Guest"
Let's keep it short and go over just Whooter's lies from this thread.

Lie #1:  Whooter claims he never went to Chicago for a TTI meeting.
Truth #1:  Whooter had already bragged about it two years ago, but must have forgotten
and was quoted saying he did indeed go to Chicago for a TTI meeting.  This was proven
over Whooter's denials by simply quoting the post where he already admitted it.

Whooter, in his own words, admits to the trip he was just denying.

Quote from: "Guest"
Lie #2:  Whooter claims to be just a "regular parent with no ties to

the industry."

Truth #2:  Whooter already admitted he was part of a "statistical group to assess TBS
safety" that met in Chicago.  This was proven over Whooter's denials by simply quoting
the post where he already admitted it.

TheWho admitting to being an industry player and saying TBS "is where the money's at."

Quote from: "Guest"
Lie #3:  Whooter claims not be John Reuben.
Truth #3:  whooter has contacted at least one parent from this forum and provided her
the email address "[email protected]" for her to contact him "outside of Fornits"
because "everyone here has an agenda to discredit programs."  The email address has
been verified to be that of John Reuben and is the admin email account at
savingteens.org.  This was proven by posting the original PM from TheWho to Concerned
Parent, which TheWho subsequently altered in a quote and copped to altering it when
called out.

TheWho's PM to Concerned Parent is posted in its entirety.

Whois search for savingteens.org shows the email address Whooter provided belongs to John Reuben.


Quote from: "Guest"
Lie #4:  RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #4:  Whooter dropped this claim and went on to blame someone else for being
"Concerned Parent."  Interestingly enough, Whooter has actually claimed to BE
RobertBruce many times and later copped to fabricating at least one "lookalike"
RobertBruce login to try to impersonate him (the login he admitted to creating "for
fun" was 'RobertBruce .' with a space and a period at the end).

Whooter begins his claim that RobertBruce is "Concerned Parent."

Whooter continues to hammer at the meme "Concerned Parent is RobertBruce" without a shred of evidence to suggest that.

...and hammering it some more...

Quote from: "Guest"
Lie #5:  Ajax13 is "Concerned Parent."
Truth #5:  Ajax13 is not Concerned Parent, but Whooter clings to this meme like a life
raft anyway.

Here we have Whooter denying being himself, posting as "Dick Cheney" claiming Ajax13 and not RobertBruce "fabricated the PM."

Quote from: "Guest"
Lie #6:  Ajax13 AND RobertBruce are "Concerned Parent."
Truth #6:  Both are provably NOT "Concerned Parent."  Whooter seems to have dropped
this notion now because obviously they both couldn't be "Concerned Parent" at the same
time, but that simple logic didn't stop him from floating it to distract from the
conversation.

Here Whooter claims both RobertBruce and Ajax13 are "Concerned Parent."  Now he's veering all over the place grasping at straws with no proof.

Quote from: "Guest"
Lie #7:  Whooter claimed to have no criminal record when
confronted.

Truth #7:  Whooter had already admitted years ago, on this board, that he was "arrested
several times in Boston and once in Ann Arbor Michigan."

Whooter admitting to being arrested "many times in Boston" and elsewhere.

Quote from: "Guest"
Lie #8:  Whooter claims not to have lied at all.
Truth #8:  Whooter has been caught lying like a rug using only his own posts and PMs as
evidence of the lies.  Essentially, he lied about everything, then had to walk it all
back piece by piece as he was caught again and again.  Now the only thing from the
above list he won't cop to is being Reuben, but considering he lied about and was
proven lying about the rest of the items in this thread, his  assertion is just him
howling from being bitten so badly.

No link required, see above.  ; )

Quote from: "Guest"
So, that's 8 full-fledged, lie-through-your-teeth prevarications
offered by TheWho in just this single thread.
 People should believe him for what
reason now?

Sorry, Whooter, your lying chickens have come home to roost and nobody here believes
anything you say anymore.  Better luck next time.

Whooter has been fully owned yet again and busted out lying through his teeth yet
again.  Whooter, you better try something else, like going back to trolling with
endless emoticons to slow the page loading, because you are SO BUSTED in YOUR OWN WORDS
and you just can't hide anymore.  Your legacy here has cought up to you and just won't
go away.  Can't escape those facts, son.

What a smackdown, people!  Finally TheWho is held to account for all of his lies here.  He's very upset about it, too.

30
The Troubled Teen Industry / Cataloging TheWho/John Reuben's Lies
« on: November 23, 2009, 04:02:53 PM »
Begin here and follow along...

Quote from: "Guest"
I read this part:

Quote from: "Guest"
Cool, let's talk about your extensive criminal record.  Personally, I wouldn't take advice from a criminal like you and I don't think anyone else would either.  You're a fraud.  You don't disclose your criminal record and act like you are the most moral of the people here, but now we know you're nothing but a reprobate.  Tell us about your arrest for inappropriate sexual contact with a minor.  Discuss.

Quote from: "Guest"
Don't forget he's a common criminal as well:

Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "TheWho"
I was arrested several times in Boston...

Funny, so was John Reuben.  He was arrested several times in Boston as well.  On the same dates TheWho was arrested.  Coincidence?  Hardly.

Anyway, why would any parent entrust their child's welfare to John Reuben, an admitted criminal with an extensive arrest record including public intoxication and destruction of property, who openly refers to the most abusive family of programs, Aspen Education, who had half of their programs in Oregon forcibly shut down by state investigators for murdering, abusing and neglecting children in their care, including sexualized humiliation by forcing little girls to give lap dances to and perform simulated felatio on their unlicensed, uneducated couselors?

Think about this, parents, before you make the biggest mistake of your and your kid's life.

Let's hear your explanation about why you attack everyone else's credibility when you are a convicted criminal.  Why do you have an FBI number?  Are you a spousal abuser, child molester or convicted felon?  Why are you barred from owning a firearm, Whooter?  My wife does the NCICS checks for handgun permits at the county sheriff's office and guess "who"se name comes right up as "restricted"?  Please explain to the readers why you are concealing your extensive criminal record, Whooter.

Whooter tries to wiggle out of the problem:

Quote from: "Guest"
Quote
Why are you barred from owning a firearm, Whooter? My wife does the NCICS checks for handgun permits at the county sheriff's office and guess "who"se name comes right up as "restricted"? Please explain to the readers why you are concealing your extensive criminal record, Whooter.

Ha,Ha,Ha so your wife plugged in the name Whooter and comes up with information?  Dont you realize this is just a log in name?  My name isnt really Whooter.  I use to go by the name of "Thewho" and psy, I think, nicknamed me whooter which stuck for most people so this is what I go by now.  But you cant do an FBI check on me lol.
Thats funny!

But the wiggle room is closed off:

Quote from: "Guest"
No, she ran the name "John David Reuben" and came back with an exctensive arrest record beginning with petty crimes in Boston in the 1970's and one in Michigan, just like Whooter admitted to on this forum.  So now we're supposed to believe, along with all of the other evidence that Whooter is Reuben, that their arrest records are identical by coincidence?  Sorry, Whooter, but we all know who you are and this is just more proof.  You're a low-life criminal and everyone should be aware of that.

Again, TheWho tries to make a joke of it and dismiss it, but it won't go away:

Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
No, she ran the name "John David Reuben" and came back with an exctensive arrest record beginning with petty crimes in Boston in the 1970's and one in Michigan, just like Whooter admitted to on this forum.  So now we're supposed to believe, along with all of the other evidence that Whooter is Reuben, that their arrest records are identical by coincidence?  Sorry, Whooter, but we all know who you are and this is just more proof.  You're a low-life criminal and everyone should be aware of that.

Oh No! I have an FBI record!  What should I do?  Now everyone thinks I am this guy Reuben. If I get fired will this give me more time to post?  or will I have to go job hunting.  Wait I am so confused,  I thought I was employed by Aspen?  At least that is what everyone was saying here on fornits.  I am suppose to be a shill.  Have I gone from a shill to a low life criminal?  Is there a program for someone suffering with identity issues?

Back to the topic:

Quote from: "Guest"
I think it has been pretty well documented that you are Reuben.  You share the same criminal record, you both shill for Aspen, you both had a son die after attending SUWS and ASR, you both had a son at HLA, you both took a trip to Chicago to meet with Lon Woodbury, Leslie Goldberg and a host of other industry bogeymen just before STICC was launched.  Really, you're not fooling anyone.

The criminal record just cemented the facts.  What are the odds that two people share the same arrest record in two separate states for the same crimes at the same time?

Why don't you just explain to the readers how you and Reuben share so many similarities including an identical arrest record that you already admitted to here?

Good question.  But it isn't answered.

Quote from: "TheWho posting anon"
You could probably document this Reuben guy as being there, but how do you place me there? You say you have documented evidence.

He just said I could probably document Reuben being there but not TheWho, and again he demands "proof" that he was ever in Chicago at all:

Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
Well, first off, you posted under the usename TheWho that you made the trip to Chicago to meet with people to discuss the industry and program safety while you posting your "matrix."  Now you're denying it?  Lying then or lying now?  I think now.

Show the links and the time frames.  Whether I say it is true or not true makes no difference.  Was I posting from chicago as "thewho" when this Reuben guy was.  If you have convinced yourself then you must be able to produce this time frame via links to posts.  Why not ask Psy for a favor... he can check the ip address from the posts I made during the time you said I was in Chicago.  If it shows those posts were coming from Chicago then that is fairly solid evidence.  If I was posting from Massachusetts then I was there.  This would be a good start for you, unless you want to avoid knowing for sure and stay with your fantasy

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You also admitted, using the username TheWho to being "arrested several times in Boston."  Plus another arrest in Michigan.  Lying then, or lying now?  I think now.

Show the link.

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Reuben was also arrested several times in Boston in the 1970's and again in Michigan for destruction of property in the same time frame.  Under the username TheWho you admitted to destroying a college campus in Michigan and being arrested for that.  Rueben was arrested for the same thing in the same place.  Coincidence?  I don't think so.

Show the link that convinced you of this so we can all see it.

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As for the ficticious story you created here about your "daughter," well, that doesn't mean much.


So your story doesnt add up and you say it doesnt mean much?  Ha,Ha,Ha how do you decifer what is true and what isnt?  
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You lie about all sorts of things and that's just one more.  You don't like to admit that SUWS and ASR failed your son, Mike, and that he's dead now because he never got the help he needed.  
If I lie about all sorts of things than you need to show us all the links where you base your conclusions on.  Since you say I lie you can pretty much say what ever you want and blame the discrepancies on my lieing.

Quote
Why don't you just spell out your extensive arrest record for the readers so they at least can see you're being honest about it.  You may gain some credibility if you start by telling the truth.  I know you don't own a firearm.  No need to explain that.  You're disallowed from owning one due to your criminal history.  An NCICS check of your name proved this as well.

You claim to have all the information on me, why dont you spell it out lol .... or did you make that up too.

So far you have provided the readers with no evidence at all.  Line up the time lines of when this guy Reuben was in chicago and when you think I was.  Toss up the links which helped you make this connection or is this just a story line for you?

So I post one of TheWho's posts with a link to the original showing TheWho bragging about his tript to Chicago with a group of other people interested in the TTI and its safety.  "Show the link!" he demands, not realizing it would be a link to his very own post:

Quote from: "Guest"
TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago:

Quote from: "TheWho"
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago.  We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first.  We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently.  Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.

TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago


TheWho admitting to his arrest record, but leaving out quite a bit of tha nasty stuff:

Quote from: "TheWho"
Hi Anne, seems I am on the hot seat:

Actually I do have a record. The last time I was arrested was in college. I was arrested several times in Boston (for various protests and acts of civil disobedience) and once in Ann Arbor Michigan (when a protest got out of hand). I was underage, skipped school and scored a plane ticket from my sisters boyfriend when my parents were in Europe and went to the campus of Univ of Michigan in Ann arbor, myself and several people were arrested for digging these huge craters on the Diag which were meant to simulate bomb holes left by the US in Vietnam, by far my best arrest (like 40 or 50 of us were arrested). Thought I was going to be sent away when my folks cut their trip short to come home to get me, anyway, that one is probably sealed because I was underaged. I will never forget they separated me from the others for some reason and I ended up in a cell with 5 other people. This one hue black guy who was obviously drunk out of his mind kept falling asleep and then falling off his bench...he would then wake up and look right at me and say something like : if you push me again white boy I will "F" you up so much even your mother will not love you..... I was so scared that after a couple of times I waited for him to fall asleep and then I took my shoes off and wedged them underneath him so he wouldnt roll off the bench again.

TheWho admitting to his arrest record for "multiple arrests"

Lying THEN, or lying NOW?  Does it really matter?  It's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that TheWho has been caught lying again, right here in this thread.  Lying about his extensive arrest record and lying about his trip to Chicago with Lon Woodbury and Martha Kolbe, along with others.

It is so easy to catch you lying because you lie so much you can't remember your lies.  And because you sold your username, you can't edit what you wrote.  How very sad to prove you are a liar once again.  I already proved you just lied about your extensive arrest record and meeting in Chicago.  Two things you claimed I could never prove.  But there it is, in cold print, written by YOU.

Busted lying in his own words yet again, both about his criminal history and his trip to Chicago which he was fully denying just moments before.

Now he also admits to his criminal record, after having his hand forced, and also to his trip to Chicago he was vehemently denying before:

Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago:

Quote from: "TheWho"
Well, I PM?d several people here on fornits and eventually we formed a ?Statistical group? and decided to meet at the Hyatt in Chicago about a month ago.  We spent 3 days hammering out a direction and figured we would tackle the TBS sector first.  We felt you were well respected here at fornits and had your hands around the other areas and were doing fine independently.  Your name was brought up several times so you were not forgotten or left out.

TheWho claiming to have met in Chicago

So the above post was written February 8, 2007 and indicates that a meeting was held a month prior putting it at around January 8, 2007.  Does this match up with the time frame you have of Reuben meeting with Woodbury and the rest of these people?  I admit this would be interesting if it were the same time.



Quote
TheWho admitting to his arrest record, but leaving out quite a bit of tha nasty stuff:

Quote from: "TheWho"
Hi Anne, seems I am on the hot seat:

Actually I do have a record. The last time I was arrested was in college. I was arrested several times in Boston (for various protests and acts of civil disobedience) and once in Ann Arbor Michigan (when a protest got out of hand). I was underage, skipped school and scored a plane ticket from my sisters boyfriend when my parents were in Europe and went to the campus of Univ of Michigan in Ann arbor, myself and several people were arrested for digging these huge craters on the Diag which were meant to simulate bomb holes left by the US in Vietnam, by far my best arrest (like 40 or 50 of us were arrested). Thought I was going to be sent away when my folks cut their trip short to come home to get me, anyway, that one is probably sealed because I was underaged. I will never forget they separated me from the others for some reason and I ended up in a cell with 5 other people. This one hue black guy who was obviously drunk out of his mind kept falling asleep and then falling off his bench...he would then wake up and look right at me and say something like : if you push me again white boy I will "F" you up so much even your mother will not love you..... I was so scared that after a couple of times I waited for him to fall asleep and then I took my shoes off and wedged them underneath him so he wouldnt roll off the bench again.

TheWho admitting to his arrest record for "multiple arrests"

Lying THEN, or lying NOW?  Does it really matter?  It's proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that TheWho has been caught lying again, right here in this thread.  Lying about his extensive arrest record and lying about his trip to Chicago with Lon Woodbury and Martha Kolbe, along with others.

It is so easy to catch you lying because you lie so much you can't remember your lies.  And because you sold your username, you can't edit what you wrote.  How very sad to prove you are a liar once again.  I already proved you just lied about your extensive arrest record and meeting in Chicago.  Two things you claimed I could never prove.  But there it is, in cold print, [bu]written by YOU.[/u]

What I see is consitency.  The posts show that the last time I was arrested was in college.  Where is the lie?

Where's the lie?  You have been denying you have a criminal record all day!  But you were caught again, lying as usual.

And he says that the post was from January, 2007 and the meeting was a month before, so there must be evidence to support Lon and leslie being there, right?  RIGHT??  Well, yes.  They both attended and IECA "Professional Development Series" set of lectures in...wait for it... November and December, 2006, exactly a month before Whooter's post admitting to meeting in Chicago "a month ago."  Pinched lying again.

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Now he's confronted with a PM he sent me (I was using the login "Concerned Parent" and he was using "TheWho"):

Quote from: "Guest"
Quote from: "Guest"
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you both took a trip to Chicago to meet with Lon Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and a host of other industry bogeymen just before STICC was launched.

STICC was launched in April of 2004 and thewhos post that you provided shows he was in chicago for the meeting in January of 2007.

If you had evidence of any kind to show that Woodbury, Martha Kolbe and Reuben were in Chicago in January 2007, when thewho was there, then I think we would all believe you.  What was the evidence or post that convinced you that this meeting took place?  I find it curious that you posted that but never provided the link.

Oh, but I did provide the link showing you were in Chicago in 2007 and that you lied and said you never went there.  Busted for that lie.  You were denying that just a few minutes ago, but now you changed your tune.  I also have a little PM exchange between you and me (using the login "Concerned Parent").  I wrote you a PM asking for info on ASR and you wrote me back to contact you privately at your email address:

Quote from: "PM Between TheWho and Concerned Parent from 2007"
Re: Is ASR a good program?
Sent: Fri Jun 06, 2007 1:07 pm
From: TheWho
To: Concerned Parent

Personally I think ASR is a good program.  It worked for our family.  My kid was there

when Dave Marcus wrote his book based on the kids in the program and they got back on

track and matured.  I have been to the campus many times and think if it's a good fit

for your son that you shouldn't worry about it.  Don't trust what you read on this site

because the members here are all anti-program and have an agenda to discredit all

programs.  If you want to contact me outside fornits I can help you get in contact with

someone who can help you make the right decision.  You can email me at

[email protected] to explore a placement option with your network.  I did not pursue the exchange thereafter.  I just saved it for times like this.  

I think the readers can see that you are squirming and trying to get out of your lies, but the problem is that they are all archived as written by you.  I just reposted them with links to prove you were lying.  See, Whooter, you've weaved such a tangled web of lies here that you have forgotten when and to whom you've told all these lies, so you get caught lying again and again denying what was clearly and provably posted by you before.  Very sloppy on your part.  Ready to get honest yet?


So it has been proven that TheWho was lying through his teeth about his trip to Chicago and his criminal record.  It has also been proven that there was an IECA conference at the same time and Woodbury and Golberg were at that conference.  Also proven is that TheWho solicited parents using the email address [email protected].  Why is that important?  It's the address for John Reuben and listed on the whois for the STICC website.  Check it out:  John Reuben IS TheWho.  Proven beyond a shadow of a doubt.

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