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Messages - Joyce Harris

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1
The Troubled Teen Industry / What posters have a financial interest in this industry?
« on: November 12, 2007, 12:38:50 PM »
CCM Girl,
I have not made  the "guest" posting dirercted to you.

Joyce

2
The Troubled Teen Industry / Medical Neglect Knows No Boundaries
« on: November 05, 2007, 04:27:27 PM »
Pitbull Mom does not appear to be a "drama queenish attention whore."
She has posted in very coherent, matter-of-fact, business-like manners about her dealings with the Utah Office of Licensing, the Utah Attorney Generals Office,  the GAO agency, and the law enforcement agencies in Utah -- all in an effort to gain support,  and public awareness about  the death of her son at Aspen's facility Youth Care.

Pitbull Mom has defended herself, when viciously attacked - and that is her right.

3
The Troubled Teen Industry / SUE SCHEFF AND THE GAO
« on: November 01, 2007, 12:14:02 AM »
Huh?  :roll:  :exclaim:

4
The Troubled Teen Industry / The issue from a parents perspective
« on: October 30, 2007, 12:54:07 PM »
Mr. The Who,
I have absolutely no reason to speak to you by Private Messge.
I don't talk privately to men who use profanity towards me; and say "screw you" to me on public forums; in some attempt to make his point.

You also falsely accused me of being disrespectful towards your daughter, and that I was in someway encouraging posters to abuse you in someway --- and I did no such thing !

Everyone on this forum is aware that I have a daughter - and I never said the "you brought her up."  You seem to want to twist any and everything I posted.

I simply said that my daughter, and other survivors, would be "presentable" as a spokespersons before the GAO Hearings - and that they would not be unpresentable-shabby-ex-junkie-hippy-types; who would not be believeable by Congressman Miller's panel.
I also stated that you had no idea of the abuse that my daughter suffered in her program - and in no way did I negate that "rolling boulders, eating crappy food, and sleeping without a blanket" was NON-ABUSIVE.

I never mentioned your daughter; and I never used profanity towards you; and I never invited anyone to abuse you.

You are rude -  you use word games-  you resort to profanity - and resort to involving your own daughter in an attempt to win a point in any discussion.

It seems to be your position that pushing people- especially women- around is how you win your wordy, little arguments.  I have nothing else to say to you, at this time.  Go post to someone else who might care about what you have to say!

5
The Troubled Teen Industry / The issue from a parents perspective
« on: October 30, 2007, 03:18:54 AM »
Mr. The Who,

I never said I was speaking "for you," I was speaking "to you."

I most certainly did not use any profanity when addressing you, either, did I?
If you find it proper to say "screw you" to a woman, when talking to her - that is your choice.

I do not know how I brought any abuse upon you with my mentality.

You will have to identify who the colletive "us" might be that you want me "to get back to."  I'm not certain who your friends might be.

I most certainly never attacked your daughter.  I was responding to your post - and your post did not include "My daughter and I think......"  You were posting and speaking for YOURSELF, and made no reference to your daughter.  Therefore, I do not owe your daughter any apology -- because nothing I posted was directed to anyone except YOU.

I've read many of your posts - and I had the impression that your daughter had a wonderful experience at her program. I never had the impression from your posts that she encountered any type of abuse, or any type of unpleasant experiences, at all.  If your daughter did experience any type of abuse while enrolled in the program you chose for her, I am sincerely sorry.

I have no problem with hippies; and you are quite welcome to remain one; if that is what you choose - but, I do prefer that you not include my young daughter in your reference as a hippy. That is my choice.  Last time I checked, I am entitled to choices.

I also have the same right that you have, and I do not have to listen to your DROLL, either, now do I?

6
The Troubled Teen Industry / The issue from a parents perspective
« on: October 30, 2007, 12:06:28 AM »
Mr. The Who,
I am a parent, who has a child who was abused in a program - Whitmore Academy; and I have no hard feelings about the people Congressman Miller chose to speak at the GAO Hearing.

BUT, I do resent your assumption that survivors, including my daughter, would not be "presentable" as a spokesperson before Miller's hearing; or any other government body.

I also resent your assumption that the abuses that suvivors, including my daughter, suffered at the programs they were enrolled in were simply "carrying boulders, eating crappy food, or sleeping without a blanket."  You have no idea what abuses my daughter suffered - and frankly, it's none of your business.  BUT, you do not speak for me, as a parent; and you show your absolute ignorance, and total lack of compassion for victims of program abuse when you post your self-serving statements.

You invite posters to "flame at you" as you wish to call it. But, I will not allow you to miminize my daughter's abuse; or for you to compare her to a "hippy."

You owe every abuse victim, survivor;and parent on this forum an apology.

7
The Troubled Teen Industry / The issue from a parents perspective
« on: October 29, 2007, 02:49:31 PM »
Quote
Quote from: ""Guest""
Well as a parent I can honestly say I really dislike this trend that places the blame on the shoulders of us parents!

These places are very deceptive and use all sorts of gimmicks to trick us into sending our children to them.

Further, I believe survivors are terrible examples of advocates. They come across as strung out little junkies who spend 3 hours out of 4 exspousing deranged conspiracy theories.

What really needs to happen, and I'm very grateful to Congressmen George Miller for his action, is the voices of parents need to be heard more and more. We parents have far more credibility than the survivors. Most of these young kids are far to troubled to be of much use. Imagine if some of these shabby young men and women testified in front of congress?
It would have killed every shred of credibility that this movement has! G. Miller was very wise to limit the witness pool to just the three parents that he did. Their testimony was far more powerful and moving that what could come from an ex-junkie.  

I can't help but feeling sorry for them and wanting to help them out in every way I possible can. We really do need to do more for these poor young men and women in the way of getting them good job skills and a helping hand up out of their terrible circumstances!

I disagree with this "parent" who is posting - because most parents do accept the "blame" for placing their child in a program.  Parents, like those testifying before the GAO Hearing, can explain WHY many of us were mislead by fraudulent advertising, lies, and false promises - but most parents accept their reponsibilities.

I strongly disagree this this "parent's" notion that our children who are survivors of abusive facilities would not be good witnesses before the next GAO Hearing - and would be viewed as "ex-junkies....or shabby young men or women."  This parent does not speak for me, or my daughter.  Most children enrolled in a program were not shabby drug addicts or "junkies."

Hanzomon4 may ask posters, "don't flame this thread," but the recent posts advising suvivors to take up guns and kill their parents, is disturbing.  
Some of our children were part of the decision-making process of enrolliing in their so-called  "boarding schools" or wilderness programs.  My daughter participated in the decision to go to "boarding school," and Michelle Sutton participated in the decision to attend a wilderness program. My family got lucky - and my abused daughter returned home.  And I, along with my husband,  do accept the responsibilty for enrolling my daughter at Whitmore Academy - and for leaving her there for almost 2 months.

My point is:  I don't read posts where parents advise children/survisors to take up guns and kill the staff who abused them.
We parents may appear naive and stupid - but we depend on the court system and legal system for what little justice we can receive.
We can hope that the GAO Hearings will generate some legislation and regulations that will ensure the future safety of children.

Some posters downgrade the attempts of politicians like Congressman Miller; and any type of legislature to address the issues in this industry. YET, they call for a "CHILDREN'S BILL OF RIGHTS."  How do they propose a Bill of Rights can be passed, if not through politicians and Congress?

8
Facility Question and Answers / Sorenson's Ranch Info
« on: October 26, 2007, 02:50:38 PM »
Amy, how do you find out about Sorenson's Ranch?  Do you mind sharing  who referred you to this facility?

9
Facility Question and Answers / Outback Therapeutic Expedition /Second Nature
« on: October 16, 2007, 06:49:10 PM »
How long will your son be enrolled at this wilderness program?
Are you aware that most kids get sent on to long-term residential treatment programs after they complete the wilderness program?
Are you working with your attorney to intervene on such a placement?

10
The Troubled Teen Industry / Martin Anderson Boot Camp Verdict: NOT GUILTY
« on: October 13, 2007, 03:01:18 PM »
Zen,  Jury Panel:

The 6 final members of the Jury were chozen by which seats they were seated in.
The final Jury Panel was all-white..

The Jury
A 32-year-old business analyst. White male
A 59-year-old landscaping manager. White male
A 73-year-old homemaker. White female
A 56-year-old homemaker. White female
A 61-year-old retired teacher. White female
A 62-year-old librarian. White female
A 28-year-old maintenance worker. White male
A 26-year-old mortgage loan processor. White female
A 51-year-old retired Air Force member. Asian male
A 51-year-old disabled white female

11
PURE Bullshit and CAICA / Rebuttal Scheff's Whitmore Blog
« on: October 11, 2007, 07:02:23 PM »
Quote
Quote:
Additional Comments from the Director of ISAC, posted on February 16, 2005:

In a telephone conversation on Friday, February 11, 2005 with ISAC Director Shelby Earnshaw, Mark Sudweeks claimed that Joyce Harris "dragged her daughter out [of Whitmore Academy] by the hair."

In the days following, ISAC became aware of statements made by Sue Scheff who reportedly claimed to have a copy of the incident report filed by the Nephi City Police Officer who accompanied Joyce Harris to Whitmore Academy.

Along with this claim, Sue Scheff also reportedly said that the incident report stated that Mrs. Harris had dragged her daughter by the hair.

Sue Scheff also reportedly stated that the police officers investigating the case do not believe Mrs. Harris.

Because ISAC is committed to reporting FACTUAL INFORMATION, Director Shelby Earnshaw spoke directly to the investigator in charge of the case on Tuesday, February 15, 2005.

Among other things, the investigator stated that he believes Joyce Harris is "very credible."

During that conversation, ISAC also learned that due to a clerical error, the incident report in question had never been entered into the computer and DID NOT EXIST prior to ISAC's phone call to the Nephi City Police on February 15, 2005.

Therefore, it would not be possible for Mark Sudweeks or Sue Scheff to have a copy of the report in question.

Today, Wednesday February 16, ISAC obtained a copy of the report made by the Nephi City Police on the night that Joyce Harris removed her daughter from Whitmore Academy.

It is not public record so only excerpts will be posted on this site, however the report supports the fact that statements accusing Mrs. Harris of dragging her daughter by the hair, are false.

On 11-27-04 at approximately 02:21 hours I accompanied Richard and Joyce Harris of San Antonio, Texas to the Whitmore Academy.

When [the child] was about to leave several girls from the academy told Joyce that she couldn't take her. Joyce insisted and began pulling on [the child's] arm as several girls pulled on her other arm to try and keep her there.

Once again the girls told Joyce that she couldn't take her. Joyce pulled on her arm and the other girls pulled her back. [The child] broke loose and swiftly exited the mansion.

In the telephone conversation with Mark Sudweeks on February 11, ISAC informed him that he was welcome to submit a response to the statements made by Joyce Harris.

Mr. Sudweeks conveyed no interest in doing that and has sent no response to date, however he did state several times that ISAC would be hearing from his attorney.


Other people have reported to me that Sue Scheff has verbally repeated this untrue "story" to them about seeing a non-existing police report; and saying that I abused my daughter the night my husband and I removed our daughter from Whitmore Academy, while accompanied by Nephi Police Officer Wright.

I have written rebuttals on Fornits to most of the lies Sue Scheff wrote about me in her blog, Whitmore Academy My Experience. Scheff continues to update this blog; the latest "update" was September 2007.

Hazonmond - according to postings here on Fornits, isn't Ms. Scheff already really busy with other court proceedings; like the Carey Bock appeal -- the case that's been filed again her, Focal Point Academy etc; and some other case connected to State Farm Insurance Company?

Personally, I don't understand the purpose of Scheff continually updating a blog about the DEFUNCT Whitmore Academy, which has been closed for quite some time now; unless this might be a way to annoy the plaintiffs in the on-going Civil Case against the Sudweeks/Whitmore Academy. My family is not involved in that case- .
 
Back to top

12
PURE Bullshit and CAICA / Sue Scheff and the Whitmore Academy
« on: October 11, 2007, 04:09:09 PM »
Since Sue Scheff has updated, her Whitmore blog and added my name to it - I wanted to re-address another issue that Scheff wrote about me in her blog:

Sue Scheff wrote in her Whitmore Blog:
"No matter what it is/was;, all of this led to a civil case instigated by this mother."

Scheff is incorrect: The lawfirm representing the Whitmore parents in the civil case against the Sudweeks/Whitmore--HOWARD, LEWIS, & PETERSON -- was initially hired by the parents of the student who first alleged he was abused by the Sudweeks in November 2004 as reported by KLS TV in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Samanatha Hayes Reported on November 30, 2004
"A Troubled Teen Home Investigated for Abuse"
"A facility for troubled teens is under investigation tonight after strong allegations from one boy.
Carol Sisco, Child & Family Services: Our licensing office notified them we intend to revoke their license."
http://tv.ksl.com?index.php?sid=136013&nid=5

Scheff blog continues:
"What a mess - in the end - the most beautiful program to help families is closed, since it has to handle the legal mess this mother caused, in my opinion."

The Sudweeks did continue to have "legal problems" but I did not cause them.

Kristen Stewart's report in the Salt Lake City Tribune, "Boarding School: she stands accused of child abuse and hazing at now defunct treatment center." on June 11, 2005.
Cheryl Sudweeks was charged with 5 counts of child abuse and 2 counts of hazing against 4 Whitmore students.

Jared Eldridge, the County Attorney did not bring any charges on behalf of my daughter.
I am not privy to why the State of Utah removed the Sudweeks's license to operate Whitmore Academy. Ask them!
http://www.isaccorp.org/whitmore/whitmo ... 11.05.html

On September 22, 2006 Linda Thomson's report in the Deseret Morning News, "Plea deal for ex-school operator" reports Cheryl Sudweeks's plea bargain, in which she agreed to not operate a facility in Juab County "for the rest of her life."
In explaining this plea bargain, County Attorney, Jared Eldridge says: "These kids made some allegations of abuse, and I completely believed them. That's why I filed the case."

Again: I had nothing to do with this plea agreement. Why did Cheryl Sudweeks accept a plea bargain, instead of going to trial to prove the innocence she seems/wants to claim? I don't know. ASK HER!

I have no idea WHY or WHEN the Sudweeks decided to close the Whitmore Academy. Again---ASK THEM!!!

Summary: I did not initiate the civil case against the Sudweeks.
ANYONE who says I paid any parents to join this civil case is a LIAR. Anyone who says I paid any parent, or any child/student to lie about the Sudweeks is a LIAR.
My family was not a part of the criminal case against the Sudweeks. My family is not a part of the civil case against the Sudweeks/Whitmore Academy.

NOTE: I had never heard of the Sudweeks in 2001 when Mark Sudweeks was involved in his FELONY Animal Abuse case in Canada: Regina VS Sudweeks; and when the Sudweeks were evicted from Mexico for operating a school without a license.

So: hopefully Sue Scheff will not try to blame these legal problems of the Sudweeks had in these 2 countries on me, too "in her opinion.".

13
PURE Bullshit and CAICA / Scheff Whitmore blog - rebuttal
« on: October 11, 2007, 04:05:03 PM »
Since Sue Scheff has updated, her Whitmore blog and added my name to it - I wanted to re-address another issue that Scheff wrote about me in her blog:

Sue Scheff wrote in her Whitmore Blog:
"No matter what it is/was;, all of this led to a civil case instigated by this mother."

Scheff is incorrect: The lawfirm representing the Whitmore parents in the civil case against the Sudweeks/Whitmore--HOWARD, LEWIS, & PETERSON -- was initially hired by the parents of the student who first alleged he was abused by the Sudweeks in November 2004 as reported by KLS TV in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Samanatha Hayes Reported on November 30, 2004
"A Troubled Teen Home Investigated for Abuse"
"A facility for troubled teens is under investigation tonight after strong allegations from one boy.
Carol Sisco, Child & Family Services: Our licensing office notified them we intend to revoke their license."
http://tv.ksl.com?index.php?sid=136013&nid=5

Scheff blog continues:
"What a mess - in the end - the most beautiful program to help families is closed, since it has to handle the legal mess this mother caused, in my opinion."

The Sudweeks did continue to have "legal problems" but I did not cause them.

Kristen Stewart's report in the Salt Lake City Tribune, "Boarding School: she stands accused of child abuse and hazing at now defunct treatment center." on June 11, 2005.
Cheryl Sudweeks was charged with 5 counts of child abuse and 2 counts of hazing against 4 Whitmore students.

Jared Eldridge, the County Attorney did not bring any charges on behalf of my daughter.
I am not privy to why the State of Utah removed the Sudweeks's license to operate Whitmore Academy. Ask them!
http://www.isaccorp.org/whitmore/whitmo ... 11.05.html

On September 22, 2006 Linda Thomson's report in the Deseret Morning News, "Plea deal for ex-school operator" reports Cheryl Sudweeks's plea bargain, in which she agreed to not operate a facility in Juab County "for the rest of her life."
In explaining this plea bargain, County Attorney, Jared Eldridge says: "These kids made some allegations of abuse, and I completely believed them. That's why I filed the case."

Again: I had nothing to do with this plea agreement. Why did Cheryl Sudweeks accept a plea bargain, instead of going to trial to prove the innocence she seems/wants to claim? I don't know. ASK HER!

I have no idea WHY or WHEN the Sudweeks decided to close the Whitmore Academy. Again---ASK THEM!!!

Summary: I did not initiate the civil case against the Sudweeks.
ANYONE who says I paid any parents to join this civil case is a LIAR. Anyone who says I paid any parent, or any child/student to lie about the Sudweeks is a LIAR.
My family was not a part of the criminal case against the Sudweeks. My family is not a part of the civil case against the Sudweeks/Whitmore Academy.

NOTE: I had never heard of the Sudweeks in 2001 when Mark Sudweeks was involved in his FELONY Animal Abuse case in Canada: Regina VS Sudweeks; and when the Sudweeks were evicted from Mexico for operating a school without a license.

So: hopefully Sue Scheff will not try to blame these legal problems of the Sudweeks had in these 2 countries on me, too "in her opinion.".

14
PURE Bullshit and CAICA / Scheff' Whitmore blog - Rebuttal
« on: October 11, 2007, 03:55:36 PM »
Quote
Scheff states in the Whitmore blog, "I have visited the Whitmore Academy and Mansion on several occasions."
Scheff also indicated to me in 2004 that she had visited Whitmore Academy in person.
Scheff's testimony in the PURE vs WWASP transcripts seem to indicate something different:

Sue Scheff gave testimony in the WWASP vs PURE trial.
On page 98 of the transcript, reference was made to paragraph three of an Affidavit that was signed by Sue Scheff, and filed on February 16, 2002.

Question:
"You never resided in the State of Utah and you had only made one visit to Utah as a tourist ten year previously.
Was that a true statement when you made it?"

Answer by Sue Scheff:
"Yes it was when I made it."

After reading this testimony by Sue Scheff; which I assume it TRUE;
I begin to wonder, and ask:.
.
If Sue Scheff had not even been in the State of Utah since "ten year previously to the year 2002,:" this would mean that Scheff had not been to Utah since 1992.

We were referred to Whitmore Academy by Sue Scheff in October 2004.
Why did Sue Scheff lie to me when she said she had personally visited Whitmore Academy? Whitmore Academy was not in existence in 1992.
Sue Scheff said to me: "when she walked through the doors of Whitmore Academy, she could feel the love."
Scheff also wrote that "Cherly Sudweeks's smile could light up a room."

Why would Sue Scheff say these things about a personal visit to Whitmore Academy, if she had not actually visited the facility?

I assume her testimony in the WWASP vs PURE trial was true.


Re-posted rebuttal to Sue Scheff's Whitmore Academy blog.

15
PURE Bullshit and CAICA / Re-Posting Rebuttal to Scheff's Whitmore Blog
« on: October 11, 2007, 03:47:10 PM »
Quote
On July 25, 2007 I wrote what i said was my "final rebuttal" to Sue Scheff's Whitmore blog. Since Scheff has UPDATED her Whitmore blog - I will re-post the rebuttal I posted on July 25, 2007:

Quote:
This will be my final rebuttal post to Sue Scheff's blog:
"Whitmore Academy - My Experiences"

This blog advertises two (2) additional blogs that will be released:
Scheff's "The Whitmore Academy, THE SECRET, Shhhh"
Zehnder's "Whitmore Academy - Up Close and Personal."

If and when these blogs are posted; I will respoond to them.

In this blog by Sue Scheff, she makes repeated reference to my daughter, who was age 12 when Scheff referred our family to Whitmore Academy; assuring me that she would "place her own daughter at this facility if her daughter required a treatment facility."

Scheff carefully uses words like: "seems" "I heard" "I was told" "may be" "I understand" "claims" "felt" "in my opinion" and of course she slaps on her legal-sounding DISCLAIMER at the end of the blog.

In this blog, Scheff repeatedly states that my little girl "may have been disclosing too much about her home life" at Whitmore.
That I was afraid my daughter "had stories to tell" that I did not want disclosed.
That this little girl felt so safe at Whitmore that she was "disclosing SECRETS!"
Scheff assures her readers that I, the mother "had something to hide...and wanted to keep my secret from coming out."

Scheff describes me as: "CRUELLA DE VILL; aka San Antonio parent ,who destroyed many lives." Along with the cartoon picture.

She advises her readership to "STAY TUNED for more details!"
She asks her readers: "What does she have to hide? Maybe her daughter was telling the truth about her?"

Scheff then gives the name of this upcoming blog that will "reveal all:" THE WHITMORE ACADEMY - THE SECRET, SHHHH

Basically I have this to say:
Sue Scheff claims to be a "child advocate" and she proclaims she "helps to bring families back together" among other things.
Yet: she dares to post such things about a young girl and her mother?

This nonesense about my so-called "secret life" has already been posted on fornits on a few threads...the "popular" one being---
"Joyce Harris is a Slut Woman."

Scheff also states: "This mother wanted to keep her private life private."

That may be the most honest statement Scheff made about me in this blog.
I have the "RIGHT" to my privacy--the same as Sue Scheff.

I have not posted blogs or statements about Sue Scheff's children: .
I haven't posted and asked these types of questions about Scheff:
Why did you place your daughter in Carolina Springs?
Why did you place your son in a Military School?
Why don't/didn't you keep your children home and parent them yourself, like most parents do?
Are the postings on Fornts true---did you abuse your daughter?
Did you suppress documents that might prove you hit your daughter in the face and put your hands around her neck in anger?
What family SECRETS do your children know about YOU?

NO: I don't do that---because; it is none of my business how Sue Scheff parents her children. I assume she has probably done the best she could. I really don't know.
But it certainly is not my place to BLOG about her children on the internet.

I don't post or blog about Sue Scheff's personal life:
I don't know or care if this woman is married, or single.
I have no idea why she got a divorce from her childrens' father.
I don't post her home city on the internet.
I don't know who she may or may not have sex with---her sex life is of no interest to me, WHATSOEVER.
I have no idea why she seems to find mine of such interest: I don't involve her in my personal life---so what's her compllant?

I, Joyce Harris, do not present myself as a CHILD ADVOCATE, or any type of ADVOCATE. I am not in the business of making any type of recommendations to parents in regards to the welfare, or treatment of their children on any levels. I do not own, or work in any type facility that cares for; or treats children.

I do not, and have not ever abused any child.

I am a wife and mother; and yes; I do have the "right" to privacy.

Scheff states that "this mother has a grudge against her."
That is her opinion.

My husband and I made our Statement to ISAC about our experience at Whitmore Academy and with Scheff's company, PURE. We have never revised this factual, true statement since we made it.

I believe this Whitmore blog written by Sue Scheff speaks volumes about who may be carrying a vindicative grudge.


Since I posted this rebuttal - Sue Scheff has been named as a defendant, along with Focal Point Academy, Glen Horlacher, and Boyd Hooper in a lawsuit filed by attorney David Leacock on behalf of the Green family.

It has been posted on Fornits that Sue Scheff's daughter, and son-in-law are working at Harbor Oaks Boarding School as counselors.

Sue Scheff has been removed from CAICA's Advocate of the Month list.

I'm not writing BLOGS on the internet asking Sue Scheff to explain her involvment in the Focal Point lawsuit suit. I'm not BLOGGING and asking Sue Scheff personal questions about her daughter's employment. I'm not BLOGGING and asking Sue Scheff why she was removed from an Advocate's website as Advocate of the Month.

I don't BLOG about this woman's legal problems, or her family's personal life or where they work, or don't work. Why is Scheff so interested in what she views as my "secret private life?"


I wonder if any recent activity in the Whitmore Academy civil case; or perhaps the GAO Investigation and Congressman Miller's hearing - which has brought these abusive treatment facilities to the attention of the nation - may have possibly spurred Ms. Scheff's blogging spirit?
I will simply forward this new "updated" blog ,and my rebuttals along, AGAIN!

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