Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => The Troubled Teen Industry => Topic started by: psy on May 04, 2007, 12:35:46 AM
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Ever had this happen?
Michael Crawford: yeah... it's sad .. all of us are affected. i discovred somethign today... i was supposed to
give a presentation on lifton's 8 principles of brainwashing for french class. i discovered i couldn't talk about
program to a group of people while sitting down...
Michael Crawford: i completely froze. i was so embarrassed.
Michael Crawford: i saw them staring at me, and i felt they were judging... i felt like hiding.
Michael Crawford: i started remembering what it was like to sit on the hotseat.... to get "fishbowled" as
Jayne called it..
Oz Girl: oh hey im am sorry. Perhaps a quiet word with your lecturer will allow you to do some
alternative assignment or a note form the campus GP?
Oz Girl: Sounds awful
Michael Crawford: well she knows ... i explained ... it was just really embarrassing... i was able to talk about
it standing up for another classs... just not sitting down
Michael Crawford: i felt they were going to attack me
Michael Crawford: that has never happened before
Oz Girl: Im sorry that happened to you
Michael Crawford: it was a shock...
12:25 AM
Oz Girl: Well it might be a oncec off?
Oz Girl: Or not. Perhaps a really sympathetic counsellor who is strategy based can help
Michael Crawford: Before program, if people confronted me, if I was stressed, the adrenaline helped me
perform better. I couldn't speak. I couldn't form sentences today
Oz Girl: to at least come up with ways to manage it
Oz Girl: Im so sorry
Michael Crawford: it the sitting down
Oz Girl: Its ironic cause most ppl are more nervous about the formality of standing to give a
presentation
Michael Crawford: it's funny how something so simple... but bioenergetics were a big part of program... how
we sat, posture, it was all tightly controlled... the "calasthenics" we had in the morning.
Michael Crawford: i am normally a great public speaker...
Michael Crawford: i used to take acting classes before program.. i was never shy in front of an audience..
Oz Girl: well you still are. Perhaps if you stand up lecture style that way *you* are the one in control
Michael Crawford: I wish i had figured that out ... but i was too unsettled. i kept thinking about group...
Michael Crawford: you mind if I post this on fornits... i don't feel like typing this twice?
Oz Girl: Well nobody can figure it out on the spot when they are in the moment. Dont be hard on your
self
Oz Girl: nope not at all
Michael Crawford: cool...
i've frozen up talking about things like program... but I didn't expect it to happen just sitting there talking about something so general... I couldn't speak. It was so embarrassing. I tried to make it seem like it was nothing, but clearly the teacher noticed since she asked if I needed to take a breather after I "finished"...
Maybe I should have chosen a more innocuous topic?
I felt afraid... they were all judging me, they were all loading up their guns... I felt like i was shit... once again.. that feeling of worthlessness. I deserved to be attacked.
Something was wrong.. the claws didn't come out. the defiance... where was it? I just wanted to hide under the desk...
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ok, maybe I'm just sleep-fucked, but I swear to god there was another reply to this like 30 minutes ago.... um, I think I need to go look at something else for a little while. Wierd.
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ok, maybe I'm just sleep-fucked
You tooo... Odd... insomnia tends to be a common trait amongst program survivors.
but I swear to god there was another reply to this like 30 minutes ago.... um, I think I need to go look at something else for a little while. Wierd.
yes.. it was ExitPlan.. he has a funny habit of deleting posts late at night, soon after posting em... Funny thing is I enjoy reading his posts. Oh well.. The browser has a back button... Silly exit plan: quit doing that! I like your posts.
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Jeez... you shouldn't do that to a person with a sometimes tenuous grasp on reality as it is. Not nice.
And if I remember, I think it was a good post.
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Jeez... you shouldn't do that to a person with a sometimes tenuous grasp on reality as it is. Not nice.
And if I remember, I think it was a good post.
It was... But I get what you mean about the reality thing. When you learn to doubt yourself... everything is possible. black is white if you believe...
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I been caught..
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What you're talking about sounds like a phobic reaction--it doesn't matter how you got it if you have it.
You may want to look up systematic desensitization, which you can do for yourself if you're (understandably) phobic about therapists and pshrinks.
The key is to go in very small steps of things that only make you a little bit uncomfortable--first even just imagining yourself doing it, or doing little steps of it (just a few people or a huge number of people, whichever is least frightening for you). You do that until you are comfortable with that step you've taken. Then you take another small step until you're comfortable with it, and so forth.
The key is to set yourself up to succeed and build on each small success.
I'm doing the same thing for myself now with a phobia of social events with lots of strangers, and of getting formally introduced to new people. I do therapy, and my therapist says that doing the systematic desensitisation myself is a great idea.
It helps with almost any phobia. I hope this post is useful to you.
Julie
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It was helpful to me Julie - i might have to try that ...anyway this is about Psy
Psy - really if it made you feel so uncomfortable (was it panic attack uncomfortable, fight or flight situation?) then stand up and make your presentation, I don't think you should avouid the subject at all, it's something you are really passionate about and SHOULD be speaking about imho, you are articulate and intelligent when it comes to this subject
Maybe you're real concern here would be to find out why it's bothered you so much that the sitting down upset the balance, you already know why sitting down to make your presentation bothered you, it's more imprtant to find out why you are worrying about it, it's perfectly understandable! Anyone who had been through a trauma like that is going to feel uneasy when put in the same situation
I'd really concentrate on the work you're doing Psy, continue with it and stand up next time, it doesn't matter that you feel uncomfortable with sitting, of course your psyche is going to tell you to be on the defensive, you're asking too much of yourself to try and force yourself to just 'get over it' - just go with what's comfortable for you and don't beat yourself up because you can't face it, no-one is going to kill you for standing up - why put yourself through it when you don't have to?
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I have this phobia..and suddenly.. suddenly.. it all of a sudden came on..it scares me..I'm afraid of my own shadow.. everywhere I turn it's there...
I have this idea that my own shadow is always choking me.. and he..he..gags me.. you know it's funny..it's a funny thing...he's always gagging and choking me..he's always.. he creeps around me..and when i'm in the batroom with myself..I'm always in a nice warm tub or sumpn..and i put nice cream on myself..he's always there lookin to choke me.. it's an awful thing..I feel very silly..i feel so sad about this..
could you help me??Cause he's always gagging me and choking me..and he's my own shadow, that's what's so scary...
AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! You see?? Oh, god help us.. god help us.. god and baby jesus help us.. See? He always chokes me!
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I have this phobia..and suddenly.. suddenly.. it all of a sudden came on..it scares me..I'm afraid of my own shadow.. everywhere I turn it's there...
I have this idea that my own shadow is always choking me.. and he..he..gags me.. you know it's funny..it's a funny thing...he's always gagging and choking me..he's always.. he creeps around me..and when i'm in the batroom with myself..I'm always in a nice warm tub or sumpn..and i put nice cream on myself..he's always there lookin to choke me.. it's an awful thing..I feel very silly..i feel so sad about this..
could you help me??Cause he's always gagging me and choking me..and he's my own shadow, that's what's so scary...
AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! You see?? Oh, god help us.. god help us.. god and baby jesus help us.. See? He always chokes me!
Can you ask him to hurry up and get on with it
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It was helpful to me Julie - i might have to try that ...anyway this is about Psy
Psy - really if it made you feel so uncomfortable (was it panic attack uncomfortable, fight or flight situation?) then stand up and make your presentation, I don't think you should avouid the subject at all, it's something you are really passionate about and SHOULD be speaking about imho, you are articulate and intelligent when it comes to this subject
Maybe you're real concern here would be to find out why it's bothered you so much that the sitting down upset the balance, you already know why sitting down to make your presentation bothered you, it's more imprtant to find out why you are worrying about it, it's perfectly understandable! Anyone who had been through a trauma like that is going to feel uneasy when put in the same situation
I'd really concentrate on the work you're doing Psy, continue with it and stand up next time, it doesn't matter that you feel uncomfortable with sitting, of course your psyche is going to tell you to be on the defensive, you're asking too much of yourself to try and force yourself to just 'get over it' - just go with what's comfortable for you and don't beat yourself up because you can't face it, no-one is going to kill you for standing up - why put yourself through it when you don't have to?
I didn't figure out why until after the fact. Next time, I'll stand up. The sitting in a lone chair, with everybody looking at me... that was what did it.
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I have this phobia..and suddenly.. suddenly.. it all of a sudden came on..it scares me..I'm afraid of my own shadow.. everywhere I turn it's there...
I have this idea that my own shadow is always choking me.. and he..he..gags me.. you know it's funny..it's a funny thing...he's always gagging and choking me..he's always.. he creeps around me..and when i'm in the batroom with myself..I'm always in a nice warm tub or sumpn..and i put nice cream on myself..he's always there lookin to choke me.. it's an awful thing..I feel very silly..i feel so sad about this..
could you help me??Cause he's always gagging me and choking me..and he's my own shadow, that's what's so scary...
AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! You see?? Oh, god help us.. god help us.. god and baby jesus help us.. See? He always chokes me!
Can you ask him to hurry up and get on with it
:rofl: :P ::seg::
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I have this phobia..and suddenly.. suddenly.. it all of a sudden came on..it scares me..I'm afraid of my own shadow.. everywhere I turn it's there...
I have this idea that my own shadow is always choking me.. and he..he..gags me.. you know it's funny..it's a funny thing...he's always gagging and choking me..he's always.. he creeps around me..and when i'm in the batroom with myself..I'm always in a nice warm tub or sumpn..and i put nice cream on myself..he's always there lookin to choke me.. it's an awful thing..I feel very silly..i feel so sad about this..
could you help me??Cause he's always gagging me and choking me..and he's my own shadow, that's what's so scary...
AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!! You see?? Oh, god help us.. god help us.. god and baby jesus help us.. See? He always chokes me!
what makes you think it's a he? have you been to see a shrink about this?
:o and what is a BATROOM exactly? do you keep bats as pets? i'm very confused...
wait... what's that noise?
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHH!!
damn, been nice knowin ya....
(http://http://images.theglobeandmail.com/archives/RTGAM/images/20041216/ingrambloga/giantbunny.jpg)
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if she wants to have a batroom - SO BE IT
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if she wants to have a batroom - SO BE IT
um ha? ha? ha? yeah ok
so she has a male shadow... she sounds crazy i think she should commit herself to the crazy farm one with a petting zoo preferably.
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I been caught..
It's all cool. You own your words and can parry them any damned way you please. Sorry I missed it. You're artful.
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Can you ask him to hurry up and get on with it
:rofl:
I had a totally surprising flashback like 8 years out. I was working as a telemarketer. I had just been promoted to closer (pretend manager) The room was set up w/ the cold caller booths in a horseshoe w/ the "managers" in the middle. So we were doing a li'll stage show stoking them when we weren't closing calls. That part was fun.
My very first closing call, I suddenly realized that the whole room was focused on me. I had this nice little old lady on the phone wanting her carpet cleaned and reassurance that it wasn't a scam, when I started hyperventilating. I told her I was having an asthma attack. It would have been upsetting except that it was so damned funny! The room went from busy but focused (cause it was all about stiff competition among cold callers and between managers) to dead silent, totally focused on my unusual closing style. They didn't know what to make of it. It sort of sounded like an obscene phone call. And that was just hysterical! I had to stifle my laughter as I was trying to speak through totally seized lungs and work out the details to get old widdow Pollack's carpets freshed up for the holidays. So there I was, trying to breathe, speak, sound normal and not break into hysterical laughter when I realized I had to pee. :rofl: So add desperately crossing legs and doing the pee pee dance to the whole scene.
I closed the sale. Busted out laughing. Co"manager" asked if I was alright. I said yeah, just a panic attack. It's just that it caught me by surprise. Thinking back, there were a lot of elements leading up to it. Ever done telemarketing? You get no response about half the time, a positive response about 1% of the time and cussed at all the rest. But it's just that I didn't see it coming. That passes as you have more time to sort things out.
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I been caught..
It's all cool. You own your words and can parry them any damned way you please. Sorry I missed it. You're artful.
I found a copy by hitting the back button enough... HAHAHAHAHAhhahahah... But i respect his decision to edit... It was a good post though. Was about to respond too...
I'm still kind of shocked... I don't normally like groups of people such as crowds (at least not anymore), but uncomfort never causes me to just freeze like that. I can talk in my sleep, i can talk drunk, I can talk your head off after a day without sleep... Thanks to acting class, i don't have any problem speaking standing up in front of people, or on a stage... I don't forget lines, i am fast enough to improvise If I forget words... Being uncomfortable does not do that to me, nor does being scared. I couldn't think about anything but group. It was like the people in the room became the people in group, that's how i saw them for that moment in time.
I think Julie is wrong... This wasn't a phobia situation. I was surprised to feel fear, and it wasn't a sudden thing. I was fine for the first point of my presentation, but something reminded me of group (raps), and I was at eye level, and they were all looking at me. I didn't think I would feel that way, and i've talked about other things in the same situation and been fine... I couldn't get group out of my head.
Many people mention that propheet/Seminar/workshop music causes vivid flashbacks. Personally, I'm afraid to try. I will sometime... soon. During break, between semesters. How did you guys sit at Straight? Was it in a circle, or was it lines of chairs facing forwards? I'm curious. My hypothesis is that if you place a survivor in a similar situation, similar surroundings, etc... the same will happen.
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Hey, we cross posted. Check it out. It'll pass. Don't shy away from any damned thing you want to do.
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I've read your post several times Psy and am wondering why you are surprised to feel fear when placed in a situation that was at one time designed to break your very being.....why are you surprised? because you've dealt with it before?
Give yourself a break, I didn't go through raps, but just reading about what they are like tells me you got every right to feel fear when in a raps 'situation' - damn, it'd be enough to send anyone into a full blown panic attack, personally I would have ran out of the room thinking my throat was going to close up on me/heart give out/legs collapse - you were very brave to stick it out
Oh and to the idiot - what do you think a batroom is? It's a place you keep bats ????? Like Duh
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one room for the bats, and one room for the balls, then you take a bat or two and go into the room with the balls. you know, the balls that have helen peterman or whoever else, you know, there little face right on that little hard ball. then you swing the bat and knock the ball right into the hellfires that are waiting for those balls to come home. it's HOME RUN.... run to yer home little balls. and take your hellish essense with ya.
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I agree with Julie.
The situation was similar to one in the past that induced fear. Just change the software that was installed then. You do that by continuing to put yourself in that situation, at whatever level you're comfortable, and noticing that you're perfectly safe in the present-de-sensitization. Those panic feelings are old fears from an environment that wasn't safe, and not useful in the present.
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I wish LSD flashbacks were real..
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I don't think this post really had any point at all.. you know how sometimes you just keep typing and shit comes out, this one of those posts.. and it never gets wrapped up.. it just kind of ends abruptly for no reason.
Fuck! :nworthy:
LOL. I once almost round housed my boss. He came up behind me while I was zoned out doing some repetitive, menial job and called me by my given name in just the condescending tone of a fucking Program parent or staff. That was a huge trigger cause very few people even knew my real name outside of program pod people. Just the look on my face when I turned around made the dude jump a foot. Turns out, he was only there to give me a $5 cert for lunch at a local place; my reward as employee of the month. LOL. His son saw the whole thing but couldn't hear the conversation over all the machine racket, asked wtf that had been all about. So I had to explain a little bit. Turns out, he was a proud LIFE graduate. I lost that job soon after when TWA folded and the kid's friend needed a job. Oh well.
Point is, sometimes you'll be paranoid and react to things that are just similar, but not really true signs of the same kinds of threats you've already learned to manage. Other times there's something to it, it's not paranoia, it's good, sound gut instinct. Often enough, those people around you who keep their cool while you're losing yours really just don't know WTF is going on. It helps to get a reality check from friends who understand where you're coming from.