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Messages - try another castle

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2626
The Troubled Teen Industry / ONLY IN UTAH
« on: November 03, 2005, 06:50:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-11-03 14:41:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Polyandry, form of marriage in which a woman has more than one husband or mate at the same time. Two principal forms of polyandry exist today. Among the Nair people, who inhabit India's Malabar Coast, a woman may marry several men of equal or superior rank. In areas of Tibet, a woman may marry the eldest brother of a family and then also take his brothers as mates. In most countries, polyandry is illegal.

taken from Encarata encyclopedia"


You go girl.

Interesting note: When Elizabeth Smart disappeared, I TOTALLY called it. I wrote in my online journal "I have a feeling she's alive, and some crazy polygamist kidnapped her to be his wife."

2627
The Troubled Teen Industry / FDA warning on SSRIs
« on: November 02, 2005, 06:14:00 PM »
Maybe I'm ignorant, but it just seems to me that if they are going to treat teens who have mental illnesses with medication, they really can't do it with adult drugs. The teenage brain is wired SO differently than an adult brain. For one thing, the frontal lobe isn't even "online", i.e. synapse (I think that's the right word) connections haven't been established between that part of the brain and the rest. (Which explains why teenagers are more prone to doing stupid things and feeling invincible, because the frontal lobe deals with one's understandings of consequences.) It also explains why teenagers would be more willing to commit suicide.

It would seem to me that it would be more prudent to research creating medications that deal specifically with the physiology of the teenage brain, instead of trying to force a medication regimen onto them that don't take these differences into account. Even then, there is no guarantee this would be successful, as psych meds are hit-and miss a lot of the times. I remember being put on tricyclics after a rather nasty suicide attempt at 13, and those made me absolutely major psycho nuts. It certainly didn't help. In fact, no adult medication really helped. I just had to muddle through my teens with bipolar symptoms until I reached adulthood and was able to make my own decisions as to whether I wanted to try medication or not.

Which brings up another point that I think is important. I think that a lot of these teens are simply being put on these medications without informed consent. (This is outside of the behavior mod system that I am talking about.) A lot of times, that can cause more problems than it solves. All I knew, at least for me, was that there was something wrong with me, and that I had to take some weird pills that I didn't really want to, that made me feel miserable. I had no autonomy in the matter, and very little information about what was going on. That can add to depression and anxiety, as well as influence self-esteem and self-image issues.

I think that part of what helps with people who have mental illnesses is that they have the power to decide whether or not they want to be on medication. Obviously, this is not realistic in all scenarios (such as the criminally insane), but for most of us who suffer and deal and have some level of functionality, the idea of being forced to take a certain med seems ludicrous as an adult. However, this is what teens have to go through, at least to some extent. This, in my opinion, is totally counterproductive to mental health.

2628
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Bipolar Meds
« on: November 02, 2005, 03:17:00 PM »
No need to be testy. It was simply an observation. I'm allowed to make mine just as you are allowed to make yours. I am getting the impression that there might be some defensiveness on this issue. Maybe I should have chosen a more neutral word than "chimed", like "joined", but then again, I've never been one to walk on eggshells in the offchance that someone might misinterpret my statement.

It was honestly meant as a neutral comment. Were it intended to be negative or positive, I would have put the appropriate emoticon after it. Such as  :wave: .

Haven't you ever heard someone say "I had a feeling you'd show up." before?

As for whether or not I was upset because I wasn't "dominating the conversation", that is yet another assumption of my character, and a grossly inaccurate one. I have no desire to do so. I prefer discussion.

On my side, I have not made any assumptions or accusations of your character, so I am sorry that you assumed my statement about your arrival was one, because it was not intended as such. Someone did indeed quote my comment and decide to do so, but that was not my comment, that was theirs.

Anyway, I would like to chalk this up to a miscommunication and move on, if that is allright with you.

_________________
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 19:19 ]

2629
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Bipolar Meds
« on: November 02, 2005, 02:20:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-11-02 05:46:00, shanlea wrote:

"Maybe the way to look at it is to be grateful there are so many options to treat different conditions, whether through diet and exercise, alternative meds, or regular meds.  I know I'm always happy to have a glass of wine to ease stress, but the last thing I want to do when I'm depressed is drink. There is a place for everything. And the truth is, there is a lot of overdiagnosing and overprescribing (especially with ADD)and not enough sustained effort in choosing life style changes over pharmaceuticals. Sometimes, the best approach is combined. I think the important thing is for people to be very aware and proactive on their own behalf and not just blindly follow the presecription pad.



A little bit of craziness is not a bad thing.  Who wants to live in a vanilla world? But I've seen meds work well for people who were really suffering, and treatment saved their lives and their family's.  It's nice to have options."


This is pretty close to my sentiments as well. I am fortunate that I have a psychiatrist who has always prescribed and recomended multiple options for my symptoms, from fish oil to supplement my condition, to a Go-lite to help with my sleeping disorder. When he realized that my sleeping problems were not improving with my medication regimen, he recommended that I get a sleep study done for sleep apnea, which I do indeed have. (I found out last week.) In fact, he refused to even consider changing ANY of my medications further until I had that study done, because he felt that sleep hygeine was so important to depression. He has also recommended exercise and a good diet, as well as the obvious, i.e. therapy, both individual and group, especially something like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, which, in my opinion, has proven to be very effective in combating depression.

I feel that there are a lot of people out there with a rather myopic view of the psychiatric industry, which is a common trap people fall into when they cast generalizations. Generalizations refuse to account for the individual, i.e. the thousands of individuals who suffer from some sort of mental illness and have found some sort of solace with a form of therapy, whether it be medication, exercise, diet, CBT, or a combination. Generalizations do not account for those stories.

Maybe it's also true that people have done well on placebos, but I guess I'm part of that 25% that do not. There have been several times where I have gotten a "bad batch" of my anti-depressants (back when I was on them) and my symtoms started to come back in full force. I honestly didn't know what was going on, until my psychiatrist at the time said that he had noticed that several people had complained about getting a bad batch of that drug every so often, where it was at 80% effectiveness instead of 100%.

Anyway, my point is, that any good psychiatrist will take into account multiple forms of therapy, and there are good doctors out there who do that.

_________________
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 19:19 ]

2630
Let It Bleed / Help a Guy Pick Out What to Wear
« on: November 02, 2005, 03:56:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-11-01 22:22:00, webcrawler wrote:

"I just had to help Kevin pick out what to wear for Wednesday. *Sigh* I wish he would add some Timberlands to his stuff. I'm not that crazy about his shoes. I mean he has a pair of slip on shoes! Yikes!"


You could always put him in those flip flops of his and make him go dressed as carl from aqua teen hunger force.

2631
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Bipolar Meds
« on: November 02, 2005, 12:23:00 AM »
To be clear, I never said I had prejudice against you. You're interpreting what I said as prejudice. I was simply making an observation that I had a feeling you would show up.

I also never said anything about agreeing or disagreeing with your argument. Again, your interpretation.

_________________
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 19:20 ]

2632
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Bipolar Meds
« on: November 01, 2005, 11:26:00 PM »
I knew it was only a matter of time before Deborah chimed in on this discussion.

2633
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / The I and Me/The Summit 2
« on: November 01, 2005, 11:21:00 PM »
Quote
For some reason, I remember my mouth hurting from gripping and pulling something with my mouth for so long. Gosh, I hope that?s a false memory. What a fucked up place!!


Yeah, that's from the I&Me. It's one of the few things I remember from it. You had to lay down and bite a towel and pull upwards with your arms while they played the theme song to Rocky. One of the more absurd exercises, to be sure.

I remember hearing that song years later and I was like "Shit man, that's a long-assed fucking song! Did we actually have to do it for the whole thing?"

So you ran on a trail for the I&Me? I think they just had us run in place inside.

Smoking... you must have been at RMA in the 80s, they banned smoking halfway through my stay there. It was so nice that I never had to clean up any more butt cans on Saturday crews.

2634
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Bipolar Meds
« on: November 01, 2005, 03:41:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-10-31 19:35:00, Antigen wrote:

Anon, one question I just have to ask. During all that time when you were eating rancid, encapsulated, extracted fish oil, did it ever occure to you to just eat more fish, maybe take up fishing as a hobby?


Well, I guess you could make the same argument for multivitamins. Why do people take them, when they should just eat healthier?

Apparently, the concentration of omega 3s present in the fish oil capsules is greater than you would get if you just had fish for dinner. I believe it is extracted and refined from salmon eggs. So I guess if you are wealthy enough to eat caviar every day, go for it.

I also believe that even people who eat fish regularly may still sometimes take fish oil capsules. Fish oil, like any other vitamin, is a supplement, not a replacement.

Doesn't matter for me either way. I don't take the stuff, since it didn't agree with me.

But if I could afford to eat sushi every day and have a more japanese diet, I'd love to. Although I would probably miss the beef. Actually, I probably wouldn't be able to stomach fish every single day. I can't eat the same of anything every single day, although I did come close with hawaiian pizza one time.

_________________
[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2006-01-14 19:20 ]

2635
Let It Bleed / Help a Guy Pick Out What to Wear
« on: October 31, 2005, 03:44:00 AM »
I voted for the

Orange polo shirt
Red Flower swimsuit
Brown argyle socks
Golf shoes
Green frog tie
and sound headset

2636
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Bipolar Meds
« on: October 31, 2005, 03:25:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-10-30 16:05:00, Anonymous wrote:

"
Quote

On 2005-10-30 14:50:00, Helena Handbasket wrote:


"
Quote


I know Depakote and Verapamil are also prescribed.  Even fish oil.





Well I'm not a doctor either, but I was studying to be one.





Depakote is a seizure med, and Verapamil is used to treat cardiac arrythmia.  What the FUCK does this have to do with bipolar disorder?





Oh, I guess that falls under the Snake Oil... oh sorry, FISH oil prescription.  


 :roll:

"




Quick google search will find numerous references to these 2 meds.  Both are well documented for the treatment of bipolar disorder.



So it would seem they would have quite a bit to do with bipolar disorder......not snake (or fish) oil at all.





"


Yes, depakote is used as a mood stabilizer for bipolar disorder. It is one of the old standards which make up the "big three" in terms of mood stabilizers: depakote, lithium, and tegretol (or its newer version, trileptal.)

Both depakote and tegretol/trileptal are anti-convulscents, as anti-convulscents have been proven to be very effective in treating bipolar disorder. There are actually several other anti-convulscents out there which are also used to treat people with bipolar disorder, such as Lamictal.

And also, the people who were talking about fish oil are correct. That has been proven to have some effecacy in helping bipolar symptoms, if you can get past the fishy-burps that comes with taking them. (Some brands are better than others at not being "fishy", and keeping their stock fresh enough so that it doesn't spoil and get rank.)

My psychiatrist actually recommended fish oil to me, and suggested a particular brand of omega 3s to try to help curb the bipolar symptoms in conjunction with my medication. So for those who think that shrinks are all about drugging their patients and aren't into alternative therapies, that's not always the case. I tried the fish oil for a while, but I think I got a stinky or old batch, because I still burped up fish-stink. (Which was odd, because I got a very good brand.) I eventually had to stop, because I had GI problems with reflux, and fish oil certainly didn't help that. Also, one of the other medications I was on started to make my face an oil factory and I was breaking out, so the last thing I needed was to be taking a product that was made entirely of oil.

2637
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / fun fun fun restrictions
« on: October 28, 2005, 10:31:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-28 16:26:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Wow.90%.  I honestly believe that it was closer to 5% when I went to CEDU.  Tight leash and also the kids really brought the program.  We were too scared and NEVER publicly questioned the program.  I will say, the boys probably had a lot more leeway than the girls because they didn't snitch as much. I think girls were more power trippin'... So that was unfortunate. Even if we had a dirt contract with someone, it was never explicitly stated. I remember when I had a split contract with someone, I copped out the second I was accused in a rap. I'm just no good at lying. I think the boys had it way better than the girls."


Sounds like you were in the CEDU system around the same time I was. Most people just didn't question it, and bought the program, and wanted to be there. (Mostly because they were scared of having to go to their "option".) I know I was. I used to have nightmares about being kicked out.

2638
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / Bipolar Meds
« on: October 28, 2005, 10:24:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-10-28 15:44:00, Anonymous wrote:

"for sleep"


Trazadone is actually an anti-depressant. But it also helps with sleep, and is used a lot because it's non-addictive unlike a lot of sleep aids out there. I used to take it years ago. It knocks you on your ass, and I was an adult. I can't imagine what it must do to a teenage brain. That kid must have been a zombie.

So, Dr. Ulrich would just start kids out on several meds at once? That's unusual. Normally, a doctor will start someone out on one med, and if they are still having problems after the med becomes effective and is in their system regularly, (which could take weeks or months) they will alter the dose. Then, if that doesn't help, they would consider either changing the med, or if the med is helping but not as much as it could be, they would introduce an additional, supplemental medication. This is why it can often take years for psych meds to be adjusted properly. And the scenario I am talking about here is for adults. With teenagers, I would think that one would have to tread even lighter and be even more careful, because the teenage brain is very different physiologically from the adult one.

And if someone is diagnosed as bipolar, they shouldn't be on any antidepressants at all. They should only be on mood stabilizers. Antidepressants can actually exacerbate the instability. They can work in the short term, but they will tend to lose their effecacy after about a year or so, and the person will "crash" (oftentimes becoming even more depressed). If that kid was diagnosed as bipolar, he shouldn't have been on zoloft or trazadone at all.

More importantly, I just don't think that RMA was a conducive environment to have any sort of effective psychiatric practices take place. The predominant ideology there is almost in conflict with the idea of psychiatric medicine, so I was surprised when I heard that they began medical treatment there. (Like there was anyone within the CEDU system who was knowledgable enough to be able to choose competent psychiatric staff and know how to monitor them effectively to begin with, you know?) I mean, who did Dr. Ulrich report to? Who was his superior who made sure he was practicing safe medicine? It obviously wasn't another psychiatrist, because I was told he was the only one there. So, what, another CEDU staff was? Like they would know? You can't just have a school and then "tack-on" psychiatric treatment, almost as an afterthought, to attract a wider audience of customers. In my opinion, a school has to be built from the ground up with a solid understanding of psychiatric principles and it has to be a part of their foundation, with a large psychiatric staff on hand, so that there is more than one doctor's opinion available. The way RMA did it was almost in a slapdash sort of way.

2639
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / The I and Me/The Summit 2
« on: October 28, 2005, 09:49:00 PM »
Holy crap, I've never heard of anything as crazy as soft seating in my life. As if the staff weren't unqualified enough. Talk about a "propheet kapo"!

We didn't have anything like that when I was there. Supporting at RMA in the 80s was a lot like what the anon said it was like at BCA, except that you had to have gone through your IWTL to be eligable. You sat in the plastic chairs just like all the other students, and you went through all of the same things they did, it's just that you were there as a "role model" and to essentially be supportive. When the staff went to confer between breaks, you didn't go with them or speak with them. You stayed with all the other students.

There was also the situation where students just went through a propheet again, because they were having a hard time. This was essentially the antithesis of supporting a propheet. You were viewed as a loser. I went through my Truth again when I was in Quest. (Or was it Challenge?) I can't even remember what I had done wrong to warrant it. I think it was that I just simply wasn't "getting with the program" and was having a hard time in raps "getting in touch" with things. I wasn't developing at the same rate as my peer group, essentially. I was put on a work detail and then put through the Truth again. The irony of this whole thing is that I didn't have a speck of "dirt" on my "dirt list", aside from little piddly piss-ant crap that everyone has on theirs, like forgetting to tuck in your shirt one day. It totally wasn't about whether or not I had broken any rules. It was all about "emotional growth" stuff.

Quote
Yes. I rebuilt that wall in 1996. I had to take it down rock by rock and rebuild the wall. I finished 90% of it then got taken off of my 3 1/2-week booth. Some other guy finished the wall. My back still isn't right. My friend Mike--who I still talk to--had something like an 80-day full-time. He built half of the shit at RMA.


Wow, that's about a decade after I built it. I'm sure several students had re-built it inbetween those two times. But you essentially had to do exactly what I did. Take it out rock by rock.

Did you used to do that full-time trick of making a sundial by plunking a stick in the dirt so you knew what time it was? (We weren't allowed watches on a full-time. I don't know if that changed or not.)

2640
CEDU / Brown Schools and derivatives / clones / The I and Me/The Summit 2
« on: October 28, 2005, 05:18:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-10-27 21:08:00, absolutebest wrote:

I spent all day, every day building a huge rock wall that is most likely still there.  It was bullshit.  I kind of got pulled because of that.


Hey! I bet your rock wall replaced MY rock wall from MY full time! Would it by any chance be the one in the main driveway leading up to the house?

Mine was pretty damn sturdy back in the day, and it took me a 14 day full time to build, but I'm sure by the time you were there, it was a mess, if it was still around, even.

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