Post by: shanlea on October 14, 2004, 11:45:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on October 14, 2004, 12:19:00 PM
Post by: vvigil on October 14, 2004, 12:53:00 PM
The I and Me they made us run up and down the road about a million times until we were absolutely exhausted and "Me" came out. Load of crock.
Post by: Anonymous on October 14, 2004, 04:05:00 PM
Post by: Tinkerbell on October 15, 2004, 03:08:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 15, 2004, 03:25:00 PM
Post by: **PIXIE DUST** on October 18, 2004, 10:51:00 AM
Post by: mikehunt on October 18, 2004, 04:30:00 PM
and i really hate most of john lennon's songs now thanks to the i&me.
Post by: **PIXIE DUST** on October 18, 2004, 07:11:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2004, 04:09:00 AM
Flame away if you wish, but back in the old days those experiences meant a lot to some of us who WORKED like hell to make it through and graduate.
-HA
1986-1988
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2004, 10:36:00 AM
Post by: shanlea on October 23, 2004, 11:21:00 AM
If you think living at a place for two years closeted off from the real world in some pseudo world is healthy, and having people scream at you with abusive language is healing, you brought the lie hook, line, and sinker.
To the provo canyon anon--you get it. Thank you.
By the way, was provo into mind fucking like CEDU?
Post by: mikehunt on October 23, 2004, 12:36:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-23 01:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Anybody who participated in the I and Me and Summit workshops should honor the promise they made and keep it confidential.
Flame away if you wish, but back in the old days those experiences meant a lot to some of us who WORKED like hell to make it through and graduate.
-HA
1986-1988
"
honor the promise we made?
some of us didn't really make a promise, we were just told what we were not supposed to do (it's kind of like breaking "agreements"; not many of us actually "agreed" to these.)
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2004, 02:16:00 PM
Me: "No he's not he has to travel for business"
Her: "God you're stupid!What do the rest of you pigs think? Her Dad travels for business right? No wonder they don't want you you're so stupid, just kill yourself" So in conclusion maybe abusive staff members start their schooling at Cedu and once they're perfected it they go "teach" at Provo
Post by: Anonymous on October 23, 2004, 02:30:00 PM
Post by: Mondamin0603 on October 23, 2004, 02:35:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 24, 2004, 03:09:00 AM
RMA was a tough school, but I got a lot out of it and made some life-long friends. So I had to chop wood, build fences, create trails, and camp in mid-winter; it didn't seem like the end of the world to me. Yeah, the raps sucked and staying up all night getting verbally shredded wasn't exactly easy but they certainly didn't permanently damage me like I have read so many others posting here claim. My skin is way too thick for that nonsense.
I don't know what went down after 06/11/88 at RMA, but I wouldn't trade the memories I had there for the world.
Post by: Polarbear on October 24, 2004, 06:19:00 AM
But I think RMA must have been operating quite a bit different from CEDU. Thank goodness, too, from the sound of things. Enjoy-Polarbear
Post by: shanlea on October 24, 2004, 10:45:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on October 24, 2004, 12:26:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-24 07:45:00, shanlea wrote:
"Well then, anon, we differ. I did not go to RMA. I do not care about the physical labor required of us... It was a welcome escape. It was the bad therapy, abusive raps, atmosphere of spying and bullying, lying and manipulation of parents, medical neglect, emotional coersion, and binary value system that pissed me off. It's not about thick skin--if anybody had ever said anything direct and true that would be one thing. It was about the whole foundation and atmosphere inculcated by the school that was dishonest and unethical."
Post by: Anonymous on October 25, 2004, 10:15:00 AM
first, for the imagine/I&me, i recommend reading THE TRANSCENDENCE OF THE EGO by sartre. next, for the summit/symposium, i would say read plato's SYMPOSIUM.
the theories for each, as far as i can tell, are respectively contained therein.
as much as i hated my cascade experience-- and there was no LASTING trauma perpetrated against me, compared to some of my fellow grads-- the basic philosophies to which i was exposed while a student of the upper and "leadership" school have helped me through the past ten years... indeed they are the only reason that i am alive, as far as i can tell. granted, it took an unusual personal and private mystical experience recently to see that i owe my very existence to the foundation i was given at cascade, but nevertheless, even through my hardest times, certain thoughts have replayed over and over for me which have been a saving grace more than once.
what cascade taught is what it knew. if allgood was a scumbag, then so be it. i don't remember having more than one VERY miniscule conversation with him, as he made his monthly cameo, and from it, if he somehow brainwashed me, then he was an effective cult-leader-- cause i never caught wind of any changes in my demeanor.
(cascade didn't FIX kids. it merely offered a more logic-based, rational choice for those who "knew there was something MORE" in store for us humans.
perhaps in the midst of the workshops they could have told us that there were to come at least a couple more superhuman moments... soasto keep our spirits up when facing life POST-program... when it seems the celebrations are done forever-- now merely memories-- when it seems there is nothing more to anticipate in life except the american nightmare----- that there might be a mystical surprise or two) vaguely reminiscent of the better days at cascade. safe moments just like those two years in a "brainwashed" "fantasyland"... moments which i would choose over this depression which would like to call itself mine... ours...
hang in there. you've got positivity ahead in some respects... hopefully in ways you will one day appreciate-
Post by: Anonymous on October 25, 2004, 10:50:00 AM
i really don't think that not talking about a program's workshops is the promise referred to by nietzsche-- (all the promises made to us by life...)
it is more than a right to share these experiences: it is our duty.
we suffered so that we could one day teach others, raise families, be bosses-- all without reflecting the oppression we and so many others normally EXPECT and ENDURE in the real world.
so we wouldn't be like our parents were to us. they knew no better. now we do. the cycle ends.
rb93
Post by: Son Of Serbia on October 25, 2004, 11:09:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-10-25 07:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"well... if you mean the actions of these workshops, they were very different between families and between cedu and cascade. however, the philosophies were similar and can be easily discerned by reading two texts.
first, for the imagine/I&me, i recommend reading THE TRANSCENDENCE OF THE EGO by sartre. next, for the summit/symposium, i would say read plato's SYMPOSIUM.
the theories for each, as far as i can tell, are respectively contained therein.
as much as i hated my cascade experience-- and there was no LASTING trauma perpetrated against me, compared to some of my fellow grads-- the basic philosophies to which i was exposed while a student of the upper and "leadership" school have helped me through the past ten years... indeed they are the only reason that i am alive, as far as i can tell. granted, it took an unusual personal and private mystical experience recently to see that i owe my very existence to the foundation i was given at cascade, but nevertheless, even through my hardest times, certain thoughts have replayed over and over for me which have been a saving grace more than once.
what cascade taught is what it knew. if allgood was a scumbag, then so be it. i don't remember having more than one VERY miniscule conversation with him, as he made his monthly cameo, and from it, if he somehow brainwashed me, then he was an effective cult-leader-- cause i never caught wind of any changes in my demeanor.
(cascade didn't FIX kids. it merely offered a more logic-based, rational choice for those who "knew there was something MORE" in store for us humans.
perhaps in the midst of the workshops they could have told us that there were to come at least a couple more superhuman moments... soasto keep our spirits up when facing life POST-program... when it seems the celebrations are done forever-- now merely memories-- when it seems there is nothing more to anticipate in life except the american nightmare----- that there might be a mystical surprise or two) vaguely reminiscent of the better days at cascade. safe moments just like those two years in a "brainwashed" "fantasyland"... moments which i would choose over this depression which would like to call itself mine... ours...
hang in there. you've got positivity ahead in some respects... hopefully in ways you will one day appreciate-
"
If I'm reading this correctly, you're telling us that you prefer the isolation, mind fucking, and the complete disrespect of your most basic human rights at Cedu, over having your freedom and being in complete control of your own destiny?
You even went so far as to call your life now the American Nightmare.....and you don't see how fucked up that is???
My friend you are a splendid example of a mind fucked, program-dependent, cedu sheep. Are you a cedu plant, a total loser, or someone with some serious mental problems??? Perhaps a combination of all three?
If your life is a nightmare now, then change it, you're in control now. But you can't do that, can you? Cascade conditioned you to not think for yourself, let others make the important decisions for you, and follow their instructions
to the letter. That way you don't have to put yourself out there, take any risks, or ultimately take responsibility for your own life, let others worry for you......No wonder you felt safe there!
Unfortunately, that isn't how the real world works.....In the real world, people who can't think for themselves never get anywhere, and usually spend their lives being manipulated and
used by others......is any of this sounding familiar ANON?
Funny how you mentioned LEADERSHIP, something all of these Cedu schools claim to teach....WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT!!!! The ability to lead cannot be taught, that comes from within, you either have it inside you or you don't, no one can simply give that to you! You need to find that within yourself.
You credit cascade as the reason you are alive today.....Are you really alive Anon??? You have your own life now(which you have labeled to be a nightmare) yet you long for the days when you were isolated, stripped of all your rights, and not allowed to make, or to have any input in the decisions that ultimately affected your life....
You don't sound very alive to me!!!!
Oh, and stop kidding yourself, because you are definately traumatized, whether you see it or not!
You need to get some help.....SERIOUSLY!!!
Post by: mikehunt on October 25, 2004, 12:56:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-25 07:15:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
as much as i hated my cascade experience-- and there was no LASTING trauma perpetrated against me, compared to some of my fellow grads-- the basic philosophies to which i was exposed while a student of the upper and "leadership" school have helped me through the past ten years... indeed they are the only reason that i am alive, as far as i can tell. granted, it took an unusual personal and private mystical experience recently to see that i owe my very existence to the foundation i was given at cascade, but nevertheless, even through my hardest times, certain thoughts have replayed over and over for me which have been a saving grace more than once.
good deal; i'm glad you've found your savior, cascade. after a mystical englightening, i also learned to acknowledge my time at cedu as being a huge turning point in which i got myself on the right path; 3 years of introspection, having to find myself and my power despite my environment. i'd say i came out on top... i'm sure my old team leader would have to disagree.
anyhow, i'm really glad that you benefitted so greatly from your experience.
Quote
i don't understand how you can claim that you don't see changes in your demeanor; by making ths statement, i believe that you're contradicting yourself.
what cascade taught is what it knew. if allgood was a scumbag, then so be it. i don't remember having more than one VERY miniscule conversation with him, as he made his monthly cameo, and from it, if he somehow brainwashed me, then he was an effective cult-leader-- cause i never caught wind of any changes in my demeanor.
Quote
i'm glad it happened to work our for you, but it was applied in a very illogical, totalitarian manner which turned many others off (even though we were stuck there.) they insisted that we learn their lessons rather than our own.
(cascade didn't FIX kids. it merely offered a more logic-based, rational choice for those who "knew there was something MORE" in store for us humans.
here, check my logic:
we are (physically) individual beings in our own individual bodies.
thoughts are functions of the brain, an interdependent component of our body.
each body functions in a relatively unique manner.
cascade/cedu have a standardized approach to "help" (and, of course, everyone's idea of how to help is at least slightly different.. when there is extreme dissonance between the goal of the therapist and that of the patient, well, there's going to be a huge amount of resistance on both sides, and rather than having an effective therapeutic relationship, it will usually turn into more of a power struggle) kids.
a standardized approach will almost never have 100% success, because there are too many unique mental processes to be taken into consideration and worked with; the standardized method does not know how to adapt.
besides, what is the goal of such therapy anyway; to instill morality into these "out of control" kids?
morality is a system of our own construction (or should be, at least) usually based on our theological beliefs. our beliefs are just as individual as we are... although, the more standardized they become, the less individual they are. for some people, that is ideal, for others it is not.
in this respect, i view cedu in a similar light as the church... they push their own standardized agenda and claim that if you don't accept it, you'll be damned.
well, being the individuals we are, we all have different conceptions of 'damnation', a highly subjective term.
consequently, we need not worry about declining or accepting our invitations into these elitist moral groups (or making any choice, for that matter,) because, well, you'll always do what you think is best for you (unless you're truly massochistic. and even still, you like the pain that much, so isn't taking that painful path really what's best for you?)
Quote
perhaps in the midst of the workshops they could have told us that there were to come at least a couple more superhuman moments... soasto keep our spirits up when facing life POST-program...i totally agree with you here; they had their focus in the wrong place, for sure.. this made it all that much less appealing. at cedu, i got really depressed and started hating my life rather than looking forward to it.
Quote
when it seems the celebrations are done forever-- now merely memories-- when it seems there is nothing more to anticipate in life except the american nightmare----- that there might be a mystical surprise or two) vaguely reminiscent of the better days at cascade. safe moments just like those two years in a "brainwashed" "fantasyland"... moments which i would choose over this depression which would like to call itself mine... ours...
hang in there. you've got positivity ahead in some respects... hopefully in ways you will one day appreciate-
"
this is where you lose me... it's not "the depression which would like to call itself... ours." it's yours, sugar. claim it for yourself and yourself only; i no longer choose to thrive on my depression and cling to my history for relative satisfaction.
i pray that you will find brilliance and levity in your life here on the outside without having to refer back to your past; the gift of beautiful presence is what "more" was/is held in store for me... us... only if you so choose.
_________________
laura solomon[ This Message was edited by: mikehunt on 2004-10-25 21:23 ]
Post by: Anonymous on October 25, 2004, 05:16:00 PM
Your spite is rancid Mike--why not just accept the fact that CEDU works for some people and you were not one of them. People go on to lead happy, fulfilling lives after these programs, it's a fact, why not just accept the difference without all the little waspy little bitch bites (while trying so hard to sound inpartial (ha!!) and intellectual (ha-ha-ha!!!)
Post by: Anonymous on October 25, 2004, 05:32:00 PM
Post by: mikehunt on October 26, 2004, 12:26:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-10-25 14:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
waspy little bitch bites
waspy?
little... no, not really.
bitch, most definitely.
and i'd love to bite your eyeball.
Post by: Anonymous on October 26, 2004, 12:36:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-25 14:16:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Typical Mike response: this person who's experience you belittle in your post got something good out of the program he/she attended--yet all you can do is take disingenuous little swipes and act condescending.
Your spite is rancid Mike--why not just accept the fact that CEDU works for some people and you were not one of them. People go on to lead happy, fulfilling lives after these programs, it's a fact, why not just accept the difference without all the little waspy little bitch bites (while trying so hard to sound inpartial (ha!!) and intellectual (ha-ha-ha!!!)"
Yes Anon Sheep, many people do lead "happy and fullfilling lives" after these programs. I for one lead a very fullfilling and happy life, and it has absolutely nothing to do with cedu or any other program.
Most people in this world who have dreams and/or goals, as well as the required determination, effort, and persistance to see them realized, usually tend to lead happy & successful lives, where they do feel fullfilled. This his nothing to do with any "program", it is a matter of personal character.
People who take risks, make sacrifices,never give up, and work their fucking asses off to get where they want to be in life, more often than not will do just that . I'm not talking rocket science here. It's simple and it's obvious. If you want something, then go get it, you make it happen,because no one else will do it for you.
You don't need Cedu or any other program to teach you that, it's common sense!!!
I find your choice of words amusing....."People go on to live happy and successful lives AFTER these programs." I find this funny because you're being vague here. You're implying that cedu (or another program)is responsible for these people's happy and successful lives, but you don't have the balls to actually say it. Why not say: "because of these programs people lead happy and fullfilling lives"....if that's what you believe??? The rest of us know that's complete Bullshit...but if it's what you believe, then don't beat around the bush, just say it, You Big Pussy!!!
Oh and by the way, the Cascade Anon you are defending does indeed have a positive outlook on the school, yet he also calls his life now "The American Nightmare." It sure doesn't sound like he feels happy or fullfilled to me!
How's your life Cedu Sheep?
Post by: Son Of Serbia on October 26, 2004, 12:37:00 PM
Post by: mikehunt on October 26, 2004, 12:49:00 PM
i certainly wouldn't say that cedu had nothing to do with these people's "good lives", but i wouldn't say that it was necessarily the determining factor either.
every event in a person's life is extremely relevent, i believe.
Post by: Anonymous on October 26, 2004, 01:34:00 PM
"...Oh and by the way, the Cascade Anon you are defending does indeed have a positive outlook on the school, yet he also calls his life now "The American Nightmare." It sure doesn't sound like he feels happy or fullfilled to me!..."
"...My friend you are a splendid example of a mind fucked, program-dependent, cedu sheep. Are you a cedu plant, a total loser, or someone with some serious mental problems??? Perhaps a combination of all three?"
YES! YES! YES! Label me some more! then perhaps you will look in your mirror and find that you are SCREAMING at your neglected piece of self which you hid so carelessly away inside! YES!YES! i must be totally demented! i am, after ten years-- no, eleven... still trying to become a better person! i MUST believe that cascade FIXED me or somehow INTENDED to (???!?)...
well, that's not close to accurate, unless you believe the thought that i am somehow individually responsible for the fate of this whole nation... which is pretty absurd... or i somehow was the creator of this society of "GET RICH" "HURT PEOPLE" "HURT FAMILY" "CORPORATE SAVIOURSHIP" "KILL KILL KILL" mentality. did i do that?
happy... that's a work in progress. how selfish to be happy all the time. when yr happy, nothing gets done. no growth is even attempted because in yr bliss, you don't need to change.
THE AMERICAN NIGHTMARE, friend, is a reference to the outcome (yes, cause-and-effect is real...) of decades of oppressive behaviour on behalf of the corporate interests of upper-class white america. (and yes, i am white)... a situation quickly becoming a potential threat to mankind's future. if i have to explain 'why' then you'll just never know...
"Funny how you mentioned LEADERSHIP, something all of these Cedu schools claim to teach....WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT!!!! The ability to lead cannot be taught, that comes from within, you either have it inside you or you don't, no one can simply give that to you! You need to find that within yourself."
yes, i did mention leadership... the only reference to a school policy in quotation marks, indicating SOMEONE ELSE's words. leadership, my ass... they didn't teach how to lead, but how to manipulate and appear in control. the ability to lead comes from within... those are my words too.
"You credit cascade as the reason you are alive today.....Are you really alive Anon??? You have your own life now(which you have labeled to be a nightmare) yet you long for the days when you were isolated, stripped of all your rights, and not allowed to make, or to have any input in the decisions that ultimately affected your life....
You don't sound very alive to me!!!!"
well, that's a lot of excamation marks, but i think i see what you're getting at here... the bottom line is that i was ripped from my life, just like you; thrown into a GOODKID farm for two and A HALF years; split halfway through; hated life; dealt with the fact that i was trapped; fucked, but not physically; depressed, etc etc etc and they told us all that
IT IS YOUR CHOICE NOW. YOU ARE NOT YOUR PARENTS. DON'T MAKE THE SAME "MISTAKES" THEY DID.
like it or not, friend, some people CAN get over their misdirected hostility. are we they?
and believe me, i mean WE?
...just like a cedu/cascade graduate to believe that the universe is a miniature model of itself over and over again.
sorry for trying to share a perspective... (conditioned guilt)
Post by: Anonymous on October 26, 2004, 01:41:00 PM
"...Oh and by the way, the Cascade Anon you are defending does indeed have a positive outlook on the school, yet he also calls his life now "The American Nightmare." It sure doesn't sound like he feels happy or fullfilled to me!..."
**************
well, that's not close to accurate, unless you believe the thought that i am somehow individually responsible for the fate of this whole nation... which is pretty absurd... or i somehow was the creator of this society of "GET RICH" "HURT PEOPLE" "HURT FAMILY" "CORPORATE SAVIOURSHIP" "KILL KILL KILL" mentality. did i do that?
happy... that's a work in progress. how selfish to be happy all the time. when yr happy, nothing gets done. no growth is even attempted because in yr bliss, you don't need to change.
THE AMERICAN NIGHTMARE, friend, is a reference to the outcome (yes, cause-and-effect is real...) of decades of oppressive behaviour on behalf of the corporate interests of upper-class white america. (and yes, i am white)... a situation quickly becoming a potential threat to mankind's future. if i have to explain 'why' then you'll just never know...
***************************
"Funny how you mentioned LEADERSHIP, something all of these Cedu schools claim to teach....WHAT A CROCK OF SHIT!!!! The ability to lead cannot be taught, that comes from within, you either have it inside you or you don't, no one can simply give that to you! You need to find that within yourself."
yes, i did mention leadership... the only reference to a school policy in quotation marks, indicating SOMEONE ELSE's words. leadership, my ass... they didn't teach how to lead, but how to manipulate and appear in control. the ability to lead comes from within... those are my words too.
***************************
"You credit cascade as the reason you are alive today.....Are you really alive Anon??? You have your own life now(which you have labeled to be a nightmare) yet you long for the days when you were isolated, stripped of all your rights, and not allowed to make, or to have any input in the decisions that ultimately affected your life....
You don't sound very alive to me!!!!"
well, that's a lot of excamation marks, but i think i see what you're getting at here... the bottom line is that i was ripped from my life, just like you; thrown into a GOODKID farm for two and A HALF years; split halfway through; hated life; dealt with the fact that i was trapped; fucked, but not physically; depressed, etc etc etc and they told us all that
IT IS YOUR CHOICE NOW. YOU ARE NOT YOUR PARENTS. DON'T MAKE THE SAME "MISTAKES" THEY DID.
like it or not, friend, some people CAN get over their misdirected hostility. are we they?
and believe me, i mean WE?
someone woul'dve offed me, if not my own self, if my life hadn't changed at the time i was sent to cascade. who were YOU?
**********************
"...My friend you are a splendid example of a mind fucked, program-dependent, cedu sheep. Are you a cedu plant, a total loser, or someone with some serious mental problems??? Perhaps a combination of all three?"
YES! YES! YES! Label me some more! then perhaps you will look in your mirror and find that you are SCREAMING at your neglected piece of self which you hid so carelessly away inside! YES!YES! i must be totally demented! i am, after ten years-- no, eleven... still trying to become a better person! i MUST believe that cascade FIXED me or somehow INTENDED to (???!?)...
...just like a cedu/cascade graduate to believe that the universe is a miniature model of itself over and over again.
sorry for trying to share a perspective... (conditioned guilt)
it's the american way!
Post by: Son Of Serbia on October 26, 2004, 02:54:00 PM
Can't say I agree with your thoughts on happiness....people who are happy with themselves, and in what they do, tend to approach new challenges with enthusiasm, confidence, and a positive "yes I can attitude", which I believe makes them far more productive that those who hate their lives and are negative in general. Just a difference of opinion between you and me....
As for your thoughts on society...yes polititions
are all full of shit, governments are corrupt & oppressive, money talks--bullshit walks, he who has the gold makes the rules, it's all about me-me-me, every man for himself, blah, blah,blah...
Yeah it sucks, but that's the way things are, have always been, and most likely, will always be, anywhere you go it will remain the same--So get over it!!!
Do you want to wake up from your nightmare? Here's a suggestion for you....The world is what it is, and people are who they are, it's nature, and you won't change that...so don't waste your time. Find your niche, work hard at it, and soon your niche will become your place in this world, work hard enough and you'll be successful, and one day you may just get your hands on some of that proverbial FAT CASH! Maybe you won't have happiness, but you'll be rich, which means you can afford to go out and look for happiness any time you want too!!!
It seems to me that the people who despise the wealthy and corporate America the most, are those who are the furthest removed from it (namely the poor, unemployed, or people stuck in dead-end, shit jobs).
Yes a life of all toil while watching others enjoy the leisure is enough to make anyone bitter...I know this from my own first-hand experience...except in my case the bitterness I felt motivated me to do better so I could finally have the things I wanted...this is what set me apart from most of my friends who were in the same situation, but they chose to remain unhappy, and spent all of their time bitching about their problems, instead of doing something to make their lives better.
Do you see where I am going with all of this?
Don't waste your time trying to make THE world a better place, instead focus on making YOUR world a better place. If you do that, I believe you will feel happy and more fullfilled!
.[ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-10-26 11:56 ]
Post by: Anonymous on October 26, 2004, 05:48:00 PM
Do you want to wake up from your nightmare? Here's a suggestion for you....The world is what it is, and people are who they are, it's nature, and you won't change that...so don't waste your time. Find your niche, work hard at it, and soon your niche will become your place in this world, work hard enough and you'll be successful, and one day you may just get your hands on some of that proverbial FAT CASH! Maybe you won't have happiness, but you'll be rich, which means you can afford to go out and look for happiness any time you want too!!!"
**************************************
ouch! that's PAINFUL. i'll leave that one alone.
****************************************
"It seems to me that the people who despise the wealthy and corporate America the most, are those who are the furthest removed from it (namely the poor, unemployed, or people stuck in dead-end, shit jobs). "
**********************************
aren't these the symptoms of the same sick society that we initially rebelled against in life? those which made us individually choose which path to follow? how quickly to follow it? whether or not we were sure enough of ourselves to leave breadcrumbs as a trail or cairns?
i know from whence i have come, far moreso than those who would purport to one-up my own self-understanding... that which i have stubbornly refused for the past half of my life is that which the world is now attacking. THE AMERICAN NIGHTMARE. but mayhem may just be a hell to me...
seems a fairly common sentiment, but that's an egotistic thing to say....
Post by: Anonymous on October 26, 2004, 09:36:00 PM
Tip for you farm boy--when someone is really happy they don't need to try to knock paths that other people find to real happiness, pride and contentment!!!
Now, in your case, if you didn't act like a total loser-prick all the time, I'd be perfectly willing to believe that you were happy, that you got happy on your own and CEDU had nothing good for you, if you said so...as it is, fuck up, you've got zero insight just lots of venom...I don't think you know who you are or how you got there..but smoke up or more and you'll feel lots better and so superior to the "CEDU sheep" who don't know enough to stay high and feel superior 24/7 like you do
Post by: southern boy on October 26, 2004, 10:05:00 PM
I am on the fence about CEDU, I do not have only hatred for the program. Some good things were there, but some of the staff were sadistic and needy people, others I thought really gave a shit. One thing makes me mad when I reflect on my time there, before I came there I could count my succeses in life on one hand. I had a rough start at RMA, constantly running away and bucking the system. When I finally realized I was not going home and I was only hurting myself, i started going along with the program, "working it". Doing what they wanted me to, was having to live with guilt about everything that a normal teenage boy would think about. Then as time went on, staff would confront you and say you were not being real, bullshit! And how could you trust the friends you had when there was a level of guilt put on them to rat you out, honestly I have never lived in a communist, socialist, or totalitarian society, but RMA and CEDU sure as hell operate as one to gain control of the students. Plus how the hell can you say this program sets you up for the real world, give me a break, no one will survive in this world opening up like that. I don't want it to be like that but it is.
Post by: Mondamin0603 on October 26, 2004, 10:21:00 PM
Post by: mikehunt on October 26, 2004, 10:26:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-26 19:21:00, Mondamin0603 wrote:
"Leave Serb alone, pussy! At least he doesn't post anonymously. "
i think it's so weird that you guys jump down the throats of anonymous posters as if your registered monikers were somehow less anonymous.
Post by: Anonymous on October 27, 2004, 08:43:00 PM
Post by: shanlea on October 27, 2004, 08:53:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2004, 09:42:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2004, 11:16:00 AM
i too meandered thru the program (cascade), blissfully manipulative and had no f'ing clue what was actually occurring. but in doing so, i was "out of reality" enough that i could actually benefit from the program. it was real, though, to be scared down to the area containing my little boy (my heart), wherein i had to look at the issues. maybe some folks just didn't GET it and are resentful because they were a little slow (NOT to attack anyone or belittle anyone who has been literally attacked in these programs)
although we're all the same, we're all different in that we need differing ways to deal with problems, issues, whatever...
and to son of serbia, i won't even quote your words at this point. they certainly left a lasting impression on me. thanks. just make sure you know what is you and what you want as you. your conviction is great! you must have been in a program very recently or at a ridiculously young age.
yes. i am a little bit pissed off. but it is about realistic and rational things, both material and etherial-- about family-mates and other peers who have committed suicide since graduating in 1993; about the absolute silence which has followed; about certain teachings within the program which now haunt me spiritually; about the state of affairs in amerika and the world...
but i'm not here to tell people who to be, how to think or what to do. those who demand are those who cannot command.
if i say buddha, he laughs.
if i say jesus, he scorns.
if i say jah, he say bob.
that's alright by me...
Post by: Son Of Serbia on October 28, 2004, 04:15:00 PM
What the fuck are you talking about?
Oh and as for the ANON SHEEP who called me
a slob (a derogatory term for people of slavic origin), well all I can say is this: you seem to be a very angry and frustrated guy yourself...RACISTS usually are. Most of them are stupid too...as you effectively displayed in an earlier post where you called MikeHunt a WASP (White Anglo-Saxon Protestant)... MikeHunt AKA Laura Solomon is Jewish...MAN, YOU ARE ONE STUPID FUCK!!!
(ANON SHEEP) You know, there was another Racist ANON skinhead punk who was shooting off his mouth on this site about a month or so ago, I think you two should really meet, seeing as that it is highly likely that you are both CLOSET HOMOSEXUALS, I'm sure the two of you will find deep meaning and connection in one another while poking each others assholes!!! I'm sure this will also help to alieviate the frustrastion and confusion you are obviously feeling, which has manifested itself in you being a total prick to everyone else on this website!
Just a friendly reminder though:
AIDs is tranfered thru bodily fluids, so after you suck the brown off of his helmet, be sure to spit ::puke:: NOT swallow!!!
.[ This Message was edited by: SON OF SERBIA on 2004-10-28 13:20 ]
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2004, 06:09:00 PM
You must be a real dumb ass I said that Mike was waspy--it means a style not an ethnic group you dumb fuck
Post by: mikehunt on October 28, 2004, 07:18:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-28 15:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
You must be a real dumb ass I said that Mike was waspy--it means a style not an ethnic group you dumb fuck"
actually, you illogical bitch, it's a style exuded by a particular ethnic group - hence the name.
Post by: Anonymous on October 28, 2004, 10:13:00 PM
Post by: mikehunt on October 29, 2004, 12:01:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-10-28 19:13:00, Anonymous wrote:WASP1 or Wasp P Pronunciation Key (wsp, wôsp)
"Like your stupid paranoid friend Slob. Waspy also refers to little nasty stinging assaults, a la the insect---
n.
A white Protestant of Anglo-Saxon ancestry.
i don't really think you were making a reference to the bug... i think you were going for a witty double entendre. i'm sorry that it didn't work out the way you'd planned since i'm a heeb.
Quote
you know, the way you often act when trying to pass yourself off as being bright, having a clue even, it's a colloquialism in some cultural contexts---you've got to read a bit more dear---aren't you the one who tries to present as the "successful" writer?? "
when did i claim to be a successful writer? or when did i even claim to be "bright", for that matter?
what are you saying is a colloquialism? my style of commenting? well, yah, i'm not trying to be formal here; this is just the way i would speak.
(in which "cultural contexts" would "it" be considered colloquial? in which would "it" not?)
i think it's funny that you pointed this out when it's clearly something you do (and obviously, it is something you pay close attention to.)
hey, remember that saying... hmm.. what was it? oooh yah! CALL YOUR MOTHER FUCKING PROJECTIONS, BUDDY! or just stop taking jabs at yourself through me.
heehee.
that is all.
_________________
laura solomon
Post by: Anonymous on October 29, 2004, 08:23:00 AM
speak my truth?
waste it on a bbs?
hell no!
Post by: CEDU IS A CULT on October 29, 2004, 11:29:00 AM
Post by: godspeed! on October 29, 2004, 11:55:00 AM
i am the one who posted the LONG and duplicated (sorry 'bout that) posts and the corresponding defenses, finally the one about speaking MY truth, as if you care... nevertheless, for my own clarification... i'm not the one flaming everyone anonymously. let's act at least somewhat like our selves here, eh?
so hi.
i went to cascade in 1991.
it was a pain in the ass. you can read my brief synopsis of the i amd me etc above.
:smokin: :smokin: [ This Message was edited by: godspeed! on 2004-10-29 08:56 ]
Post by: Anonymous on October 29, 2004, 05:35:00 PM
but about where you work--- i think your employer should know that you smoke "24/7", that you threaten people here--that you talk about illegal acts all the time---I really wonder what he/she would do if somebody pasted up a little something for them to read...
How's that you dumb motherfucker with your threats and bullying--like a UAW thug is the way I'd describe you---how does it feel to know that the tables can be turned on you with the info you offer and a little Google search and without even breaking the law
Post by: CEDU IS A CULT on October 29, 2004, 06:38:00 PM
I am very, very pleased with my life. Life is beautiful!
Post by: CEDU IS A CULT on October 29, 2004, 06:45:00 PM
But to you, I say this, "FUCK YOU motherfucker, if I see you face to face after the shit you talk, I'll definitely break you off." But you're to much of a shit talking coward, to ever approach me.
Post by: godspeed! on October 29, 2004, 09:36:00 PM
maybe we can just approach this all grown-up-like...
Post by: Anonymous on October 30, 2004, 04:04:00 PM
You say you're the boss,right--DUMB ASS---the customer is ALWAYS the boss!!!!Aerospace/Southern California--right? Not exactly an unknown quantity--I bet if your customers read your posts here they'd be real interested to hear about the "24/7" drug use, the threats,the claims--even if a few people inthe business heard--- word of gets around
And didn't you post your full address in one of your rants---do your neighbors--local police-- child protection know the way you are here--Well it's all good--you live your life with nothing to hide at all times-- right?
How about that--wouldn't it be sweet to see this bullying thug on a web site have to explain himself real-time--in the light of day
Post by: Anonymous on October 30, 2004, 05:19:00 PM
Post by: mikehunt on October 30, 2004, 09:05:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-29 18:36:00, godspeed! wrote:
"is it just me or did things just get a little out of hand here? :scared: perhaps there's a bit of hostility here in these pages simply because of what we were initially discussing? if you read thru the posts, there's a definite pattern.
maybe we can just approach this all grown-up-like...
"
that's just bryan; he's been that way since i've known him and probably long before.
i gotta respect it.. at least he's honest.
_________________
laura solomon[ This Message was edited by: mikehunt on 2004-10-30 18:06 ]
Post by: CEDU IS A CULT on October 31, 2004, 11:27:00 AM
I am vastly superior to you in all aspects and your logic bores the hell out of me.
I can only admit, I am deeply offended that a cowardly anonymous poster doesn't like me much.
Post by: mikehunt on October 31, 2004, 01:07:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-31 08:27:00, Bryan Felsher wrote:
"
I am vastly superior to you in all aspects and your logic bores the hell out of me."
that's some sound logic right there...
:roll:
Post by: Anonymous on November 04, 2004, 07:00:00 PM
Quote
On 2004-10-18 13:30:00, mikehunt wrote:
"i hated when they told you that you had to choose 5 people, 2 of which you were going to "kill"... that was cute.
and i really hate most of john lennon's songs now thanks to the i&me.
"
CEDU totally ruined John Lennon music for me. Use to get stoned and listen to his songs per CEDU. Now I cannot even listen to any songs of his.
Post by: Anonymous on November 06, 2004, 04:27:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on November 07, 2004, 01:08:00 AM
Post by: CEDU IS A CULT on November 07, 2004, 02:45:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on November 13, 2004, 10:47:00 AM
Post by: gabriellegg on December 04, 2004, 01:41:00 AM
It is over now.
Cedu, the part of it that mattered is gone. They killed whatever part was meaningful through their neglegence and lies.
I graduated and I see no problem with it.
Post by: Anonymous on January 26, 2005, 04:46:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 28, 2005, 11:25:00 AM
Post by: lookatmenowbitch on March 26, 2005, 05:26:00 PM
Post by: lookatmenowbitch on March 26, 2005, 05:28:00 PM
Post by: bountyboy88 on April 12, 2005, 06:05:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on April 19, 2005, 11:39:00 AM
When I was in the high school in 94-98, I used to seriously joke that I was the voice of reason in RAPS, not given to yelling or carrying on with fake incriminations. There is no point to that. However, I believed that the Middle School took a kinder, gentler approach, 2000-05. I know I did. I treasure the friendships and relationships I made during that time.
Post by: Anonymous on August 17, 2005, 02:17:00 AM
Supposedly I was holding back on the first day of the I&Me. I didn't chime in enough or something. That was held over my head. It couldn't have been that I had nothing to say, or that I had no idea what the hell was going on with this I and me language crap. Then all the running. We didn't have to run on the quest trail or on the roads, we ran in place up stair in the hot barn with all the doors and windows closed. Ok so you run a bit then you just sit down and yell at the floor, prettend your giveing me a voice. what ever. I ran til I didn't want to any more then I sat down. no yelling.
The fights? I'm still not sure what that's about. I didn't know then and I asked after, I still don't get it.
I held up the I&Me for several hours because I refused to go back in the second day. I should have just gone home. The agreements only applied to some, not all passengers. The other staff passenger actually left to take a facilitator home and came back hours later stinking of booze. After I finally went back in I faked evey minute just to make it go away. The fantastic voyage was lame. Were you supposed to get something out of that. The best part was when you were flying and the breaze was blowing on you, it was so hot in that barn, the breeze felt good.
At the end when you get your rose the facilitator who was still talking to me (yes, the other one was "giving me space" or allienating me for holding back in the workshop and being honest in the breakroom, apparently it's not ok for staff to say how they really feel infront of students, especially if it is negative about other staff. oops.)gave me a hug and asked if I was ok, when I said no. that was the end of that and no on that was in that barn talked to me about it, ever.
anyway, I caused so much trouble after that one they always had some reason that I couldn't get into the summit. no skin off my back. I heared all about it from several folks, I don't need that warped crap in my life.
Post by: Anonymous on August 17, 2005, 03:04:00 AM
But somewhere along the line, I think the mental version of the Department of Defense came through my brain with a big black magic marker and drew huge, fat lines through my memries, like it was some classified document, because I can hardly remember anything anymore, except for these flashes of isolated moments. Nothing ever sustained. (I chalk it up to the passage of time and getting older, I suppose.)
Like, I didn't even remember that part about the running until you just mentioned it, and I still don't remember too many details about it. Just that we did some running.
I found my old summit notebook collecting dust on a bookshelf a few years ago, and out of curiosity, I read some parts, and I was like, "I don't remember this." and "What the hell was this all about?" and "Why was I writing about this again?" I remember the big things, like the red/green game, the lifeboat/funeral, and the costume party (which was the only marginally funny thing), and that stupid urban challenge, and I remember the fighting and the mattress kicking from the I&Me. And I remember some of the "biggie" parts of the propheets, but I don't really remember my OWN experiences from them, like how I felt when it was happening to me, or looking through my own eyes as it occurred. I just remember them happening, like it was one, big dissociative episode. The rest are these large patches of white static where there once was a memory.
I don't miss them at all. Time is a great healer.
Post by: Anonymous on August 17, 2005, 10:42:00 AM
There were a few good staff in the school who were drawn to CEDU by a desire to work with kids. But there was no real screening process. "Did drugs when you were younger? Belonged to AA? Relished indiscriminate sex? Had unresolved issues with your family? Then you're our man (or woman)." Those individuals with the least amount of education and the most issues involving their personal lives and control seemed to be the cream that rose to the top, albeit very sour cream.
Post by: shanlea on August 17, 2005, 11:10:00 AM
This was not the exception but the norm. And the Nun telling you that you were the most fucked up person they ever met while Russ Decker was standing right there! Wow.
This is what I don't understand. How you could stay at a place that was obviously so sick?
Post by: Anonymous on August 18, 2005, 04:53:00 PM
Post by: BCA PG 1 Survivor on August 30, 2005, 04:47:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 09, 2005, 08:49:00 AM
Quote
On 2004-10-23 01:09:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Anybody who participated in the I and Me and Summit workshops should honor the promise they made and keep it confidential.
Flame away if you wish, but back in the old days those experiences meant a lot to some of us who WORKED like hell to make it through and graduate.
-HA
1986-1988
"
what they did to you in those workshops was special....... especially bizarre.
we need outsiders to hear.
Post by: Troll Control on September 09, 2005, 08:59:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-08-18 13:53:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What years did you work at Cedu? I was there from 94-96-- in the middle school from 94-95 and the high school from 95-96. Maybe I knew you....."
Can you tell me about the circumstances under which Jill and Rudy Bentz left CEDU? How about Dean and Lauralyn?
I worked with these assholes at HLA in 94-95. They got squeezed out of there after about two years. To me they all were weird. VERY weird.
Post by: TheSummitGives on September 09, 2005, 02:19:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on September 09, 2005, 03:21:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-09-09 11:19:00, TheSummitGives wrote:
"You all should be ashamed of yourselves for taking things out of that beautiful experience. The Summit is only for those that give themselves to the Summit. Those who did not have the fortitude to remain and complete the experience should not be allowed to feast upon its virtuous tools. "
Again I say SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU SHIT EATING COCK MASTER! And why the hell are you trying to defend what happened there? Have you read what people have said about that place? Have you read that people's lives are forever changed for the worse? That people will never be the same? Have you read that? Have you thought about it? Have you thought about the fact that these people were children when they arrived? That they were still growing up and the events that took place there altered their lives. And why the FUCK are you still living in Naples? Are you a former staff member? And have you thought why the school's closed down? Have you thought that the student enrollment was down for a reason? Maybe the tactics used there were not the greatest. Maybe all the things that you are trying to persuade people to believe are wrong. Stop posting here! Just flat out stop. No one here wants to read your bullshit. Again, SHUT THE FUCK UP. SHOVE YOUR TOOLS UP YOU FAT PIMPLED ASS!
Post by: Troll Control on September 09, 2005, 03:28:00 PM
Post by: TheSummitGives on September 09, 2005, 09:02:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-09-09 12:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-09-09 11:19:00, TheSummitGives wrote:
"You all should be ashamed of yourselves for taking things out of that beautiful experience. The Summit is only for those that give themselves to the Summit. Those who did not have the fortitude to remain and complete the experience should not be allowed to feast upon its virtuous tools. "
Again I say SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU SHIT EATING COCK MASTER! And why the hell are you trying to defend what happened there? Have you read what people have said about that place? Have you read that people's lives are forever changed for the worse? That people will never be the same? Have you read that? Have you thought about it? Have you thought about the fact that these people were children when they arrived? That they were still growing up and the events that took place there altered their lives. And why the FUCK are you still living in Naples? Are you a former staff member? And have you thought why the school's closed down? Have you thought that the student enrollment was down for a reason? Maybe the tactics used there were not the greatest. Maybe all the things that you are trying to persuade people to believe are wrong. Stop posting here! Just flat out stop. No one here wants to read your bullshit. Again, SHUT THE FUCK UP. SHOVE YOUR TOOLS UP YOU FAT PIMPLED ASS! "
It's very sad to read such angry words. You should've opened yourself up while you were out there. CEDU only wanted to help lives for the better. Those who couldn't accept the beauty of CEDU are the ones who were left in the dark. They sat there, stewing in their unhappiness just like you, for two years, while other let the program give to their lives! But it's not too late for you! If you just open your heart to the love that CEDU can still give you, whether its doors are open or not, you can let go of all your hatred for yourself and be happy!
Post by: Anonymous on September 13, 2005, 10:26:00 AM
Quote
On 2005-09-09 18:02:00, TheSummitGives wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-09-09 12:21:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2005-09-09 11:19:00, TheSummitGives wrote:
"You all should be ashamed of yourselves for taking things out of that beautiful experience. The Summit is only for those that give themselves to the Summit. Those who did not have the fortitude to remain and complete the experience should not be allowed to feast upon its virtuous tools. "
Again I say SHUT THE FUCK UP YOU SHIT EATING COCK MASTER! And why the hell are you trying to defend what happened there? Have you read what people have said about that place? Have you read that people's lives are forever changed for the worse? That people will never be the same? Have you read that? Have you thought about it? Have you thought about the fact that these people were children when they arrived? That they were still growing up and the events that took place there altered their lives. And why the FUCK are you still living in Naples? Are you a former staff member? And have you thought why the school's closed down? Have you thought that the student enrollment was down for a reason? Maybe the tactics used there were not the greatest. Maybe all the things that you are trying to persuade people to believe are wrong. Stop posting here! Just flat out stop. No one here wants to read your bullshit. Again, SHUT THE FUCK UP. SHOVE YOUR TOOLS UP YOU FAT PIMPLED ASS! "
It's very sad to read such angry words. You should've opened yourself up while you were out there. CEDU only wanted to help lives for the better. Those who couldn't accept the beauty of CEDU are the ones who were left in the dark. They sat there, stewing in their unhappiness just like you, for two years, while other let the program give to their lives! But it's not too late for you! If you just open your heart to the love that CEDU can still give you, whether its doors are open or not, you can let go of all your hatred for yourself and be happy!"
The only hatred I have is for you. I just don't get you. I don't get your views. I don't get why you won't answer my questions. Who are you and why are you still trying to push CEDU's bullshit onto people. I'll give you this: Some people needed to be there. Yes, I'll admit it. Some people were really fucked up and needed a good proverbial slap in the face. They did. Some kids were fucked up. I knew of many who came to NWA and went through withdrawls, throwing up, not being able to sleep. But as I recognize some of your views maybe you should take a step back and recognize mine and everyone elses. I can only speak from personal experiance and that's to say I think the things that happened there were messed up. I was a pretty normal kid. Didn't do drugs, didn't get into too much trouble. Nothing that was out of the ordinary for a 14 year old kid from the 'Burbs. I went through all the "Experiences" and did all the workshops. I had to fabricate things just to make the staff happy. There were times during the Summit and other whatnot when people were saying how they'd been rpaed by their older brother or had raped their younger siblings. The best I could come up with was "I was made fun of in 8th grade" But what you fail to realize is that the "Tools" you claim to be all helpful and all worldly can not be applied to everyone. So again I will tell you to shut your fucking mouth. I don't know if you're serious or not. It's been suggested that you're playing some sort of a joke to get a rise out of people. Well you did out of me. I don't like the things you're saying. If you think I'm still an angry person after going through CEDU, you're right. I'll always be an angry person. It's in my blood. But I'm not angry about what happened there. I've been able to lead a fruitful life since 2000, when I graduated. I am happy about where I am now. Is it due in part to CEDU, I doubt it. I went to college and people were like "What the fuck is wrong with this kid?!" I missed out on my high school years. And for you to be advocating that was a good thing makes me want to rip your fucking heart out. Fuck you. You can get the finger, the middle.
Post by: Anonymous on October 04, 2005, 08:20:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 08, 2005, 08:24:00 AM
Quote
I missed out on my high school years. And for you to be advocating that was a good thing makes me want to rip your fucking heart out. Fuck you. You can get the finger, the middle.
HAHA that was awesome. I totally understand. Hes just a troll BTW, no need to get yer panties in a wad.
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2005, 10:11:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2005, 10:12:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on October 11, 2005, 10:16:00 AM
everytime someone would come out of the summit, all dressed up, hands in the air, rose in their hand, swaying back and forth to that fucking rose song, i used to sit back and just fantasize about blowing a hole through their head. if you let yourself sit there and get brainwashed in that thing, you're just a dumb, weak, piece of shit. i have no sympathy for anyone who was stupid enough to go through the summit.
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2005, 04:16:00 PM
I had an older brother who I never got to talk to again when i was a new student he left during the Iandme or summit.
shuey i think.
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2005, 06:37:00 PM
i'm saying that the weak ones were the ones who thought that they had to give in and accept everything that was being spoon fed to them as truth. which happened so much. shit, most of those kids didnt wait until the fucking summit to let that happen. but the summit seemed to be the ones that got the kids who managed to hold out for that long.
Post by: Antigen on October 12, 2005, 08:50:00 PM
I think he's kidding, guys. Read it again as satire and tell me what you think.I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment, to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure.
--Clarence Darrow, American lawyer
Post by: Antigen on October 12, 2005, 08:51:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-04 17:20:00, Anonymous wrote:..., on the other hand, is creepy!
"I remember that. It was awful looking at the people that I had become so close with and trying to make a choice of who lived or died. I think that was the worst part."
What, did you really think the person you named would drop dead or something? It was all theatre!
With soap, baptism is a good thing.
--Robert G. Ingersoll, American politician and lecturer
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2005, 09:24:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-12 15:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"hey man it's all good. i felt bad for the kids who didn't have a chance of getting out unless they graduated. i'm not saying you're a weak piece of shit for doing what you had to do to get the fuck out of there! if they're gonna play games with you, play the game right back!
i'm saying that the weak ones were the ones who thought that they had to give in and accept everything that was being spoon fed to them as truth. which happened so much. shit, most of those kids didnt wait until the fucking summit to let that happen. but the summit seemed to be the ones that got the kids who managed to hold out for that long."
Hmmm. If I'm reading what you are saying correctly, is that you are saying that people who bought the program line while they were at school were the weak ones, instead of calling bullshit and not buying it? Even if you are joking, you bring up an interesting point.
I had to get over that line a long time ago. I used to tell myself that: That I was totally weak because I bought in so easily to the program and believed all of their crap. I always said to myself "How could I have been so stupid?" "What does that say about my character that I was such a pussy?" I finally just said, "Oh well, what was, was. I'm a pussy, I guess." At least I know it's full of shit now and have moved on from all that ridiculous angst and hanging on to all that stupid, pointless, baggage. Chalk it up to a learning experience with some bruised ego along the way.
There are people who argue that depending on when you were at the school also depended on how easy it was to resist the "thought police." I don't know anything about that and which dates were the "easy ones" vs. the "hard ones", or if it's even true at all. All I know was I was at RMA in the 80s, I was young, had ostracized myself from my peers back home, and I wanted to fit in and be accepted at this new place. I "broke" within the first week of being there. (I was the last person to fill out my peer group, so I went through the truth at the end of my first week.) For a long time, I wasn't proud of how easily I caved in, but I've come to accept it as whatever it was, and I'll give myself some slack in regards to it.
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2005, 10:18:00 PM
so there are two possibilities. either i have leather skin, or the program was just a hell of a lot more coercive in the 80's. as much as i love my ego, i'm gonna stick with the latter.
Post by: TheSummitGives on October 12, 2005, 10:30:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2005, 10:50:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-12 19:30:00, TheSummitGives wrote:
"Poppycock! I will not have this vicious slander of such a beautiful experience! None of you are invited to dine with us at the feast of life! But you may earn your way in if you wish. To join us, feeding one another those scrumptious morsels of truth and freedom, you must re-live your fantastic voyage. CLIMB DOWN THE STAIRS TO THAT DUNGEON! OPEN THE DOOR! FREE YOURSELF AND FLY HIGH ABOVE IT ALL MY BEAUTIFUL BUTTERFLIES! "
Hey! Welcome back Summit! You got a pair of extra long chopsticks for me?? ::bigmouth::
Let's play a game. Let's guess who summit had to be during the costume party. My vote is the wizard of Oz. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!
Now if you'll excuse me, that's about all the irony I can take for one night. :razz: (Well, maybe not.)
Post by: Anonymous on October 12, 2005, 11:35:00 PM
Quote
On 2005-10-12 19:18:00, Anonymous wrote:
"nah, i'm being completely serious. thing is, you raise an interesting point yourself. when comparing CEDU of the 80's to CEDU at the turn of the millenium, you really have to remind yourself that your essentially comparing two completely different schools. when I read the posts of people like serb and yourself, i just can't compare it to my own stay. they were totally different. people who gave themselves into the program during my time, i see them as weak. because the program wasnt all that coercive.
so there are two possibilities. either i have leather skin, or the program was just a hell of a lot more coercive in the 80's. as much as i love my ego, i'm gonna stick with the latter. "
In my defense, there were some pretty tough hombres in my peer group, and even they broke like china in the propheets and workshops. (The ones that didn't, didn't make it past Discovery or early Quest.) They all seemed to really buy into the program at least to some extent. (Two minutes after graduation, however is anyone's guess.) Maybe they were just good actors. I'm sure my head was too far up my own ass to really be able to tell the difference. All I know is that I saw every single person in my peer group truly broken more than once during my stay at that school. It was kind of easy to tell who the "fakers" were when it was time to share, too. But as for how invested they were in the program itself at the time, only they know.
On the other side of that, there were definitely people in my peer group who held up better than I did under the program, and managed to show resistance here and there. (Mostly in the form of humor or snide comments about the school.) I think I was probably one of the ones who fared the worst out of the group I was in. Mainly because I was so hard on myself while I was there and tried so hard to be perfect because I wanted to be accepted so badly. Ironically, I was the omega of my group and the bottom of the food chain. Mainly because of my own awkwardness and inability to socialize properly.
I am unsure how much of it was strict enforcement of the rules or brainwashing power, but also how quickly they weeded out dissent, so those dissenters weren't around to stir the pot. Kids that were resistant and weren't jibing with the program were simply kicked out. They didn't last. Someone like yourself wouldn't have made it to graduation in the 80s. (And that's not meant as an insult, either.) They may have sent you to survival (another orginization) in southern Idaho for a few weeks and seen if that would shape you up, and maybe it would, but that was about it. No Ascent, no NIBH (or whatever the acronym is), no jumpsuits. We had fulltimes, work details, booths. Those were the three levels of discipline. If you really fucked up, you went to survival. If that didn't work, that was your last chance, and you were sent to your "option". (i.e. plan b school. For most of the kids there, it was either CYA or Provo. Mostly Provo.)
Interesting to note, if you check out the cedualumni.com site, you'll notice that a lot of those pro-cedu people are from my time. Just look at the forum archive sometime. I knew a lot of the people who posted in the old forum. Does that mean that the school in the 80s was better?? I dunno.
Post by: blownawaytheidahoway on October 13, 2005, 10:28:00 AM
Then I got my senses back. What about rights? I didn't wanna be here still, but there was no choice. It was scary and I was PISSED, but I dove in.
Whoever had that comment about having to "act" hit it dead on, If i didn't act (remember the Summit now?) I DIED. I never would have survived if I didn't act. But the thing with me...and I think is was part of the age difference, I DID NOT make a concious choice to act, to 'lookgood' at all, to stop resisting.
I actually tried to explore my personality under the guide of the people and I am fucked up for it. I completely understand the people who wrote that they took on a different identity pretty early on in order to survive- both sexually and image-wise. I was still learning and that was the place and those were the people that were my final influence before maturity really even reached it's later stages.
I went through experiences within the first year after graduation kind of like the person who wrote about being a semi-stalker; (that was really funny and well put btw) Man we didn't know which way was up after getting outta there!
I wish I could have made the psychological split that older (in age and maturity) students made that separated my previous identity from my identity while I was there, and finally after I got out. It would have made a GIANT difference in my entire life. Live and learn.
But I can identify with the comment too about the people who it was easy to recognize they were looking good. And I guess I actually resent them LESS now that I see it in the perspective about just needing to do whatever they had to do to save their skins.
Now whether or not the guy who never talked to me except in getting points for blowing me away in a rap would have been the same guy yanking out my gold teeth and stuffing me into a specially designed Krupps oven in 1944, I don't know.
Post by: try another castle on October 13, 2005, 10:32:00 PM
But yeah, all of what I said in here and there jibes with what you are saying. I didn't consciously "act" to look good. It was more like adapting, because, like I said, I wanted to fit in. Totally opposite what I was like prior to RMA. Before that, I was like "fuck you" to everyone, and I acted like I didn't care what people thought about me, but I think I really did. If I didn't, then I wouldn't have been so suceptible to RMA.
The one constant in both environments was that I had really sucky social skills that made it difficult for me to form connections with people. Sure, I had friends in both worlds and those people genuinely liked me and I them, but it wasn't easy socializing with others, and I despised almost everyone in my peer group, even before the pecking order was fully established.
In truth, RMA was hard, but I think some of my own issues that pre-dated RMA, such as my "social retardation" :wink: and perfectionism made my stay even harder.[ This Message was edited by: sorry... try another castle on 2005-10-13 19:50 ]
Post by: shanlea on October 14, 2005, 01:04:00 AM
Lots of people, even CEDU lovers, say they fell apart after the school, and beyond the obvious,that 1)they never got help for their core problems, and 2)they were disabled from operating in teh real world after being in a highly insulated environment. But the other thing had to do with the structure.
For example, I had a sleep disorder and periodic episodes of depression before and after CEDU. I didn't have it at CEDU (and I hated the place) because every minute of my day was so highly structured and either physically (manual labor) or emotionally exhausting, I had no trouble sleeping. I also think the novelty and work and constant challenge of the environment kept you on your toes, in a state of hyper awareness, that fended you from depression. (Well, me anyway.)
But what happens when you leave CEDU and are not worked heavily, physically and emotionally? What do you do when you no longer have an external structure imposed upon you to respond to? You fall back into old patterns. Especially if you didn't learn how to structure yourself. And really, that type of quasi police state structure is not realistic. One monitored phone call every two weeks? Total control of your time and activities moment to moment? Total control of what you could wear, talk about, talk TO, and do? God, even your thought processes was censored if they ever got to light.
Post by: TheSummitGives on October 14, 2005, 02:38:00 AM
I hope none of you are walking off of paths! And you had better be making sure you have permission to take your shirts off before you play a game of basketball! Are you not sleeping between two sheets? Are you taking more than 5 minute showers?? Are you masturbating?!? If so, you will never enjoy the feast of life!!
How can you expect to live happily if your life is not plumb and square? [ This Message was edited by: TheSummitGives on 2005-10-13 23:39 ]
Post by: try another castle on October 14, 2005, 02:50:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on October 14, 2005, 02:56:00 AM
only 3 words i hated more than plumb and square were scrap and stack.
Post by: try another castle on October 14, 2005, 03:09:00 AM
I know. Rife for double-entendre jokes.
Post by: Anonymous on October 14, 2005, 11:18:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on October 14, 2005, 11:24:00 AM
Post by: Psianide on October 30, 2006, 09:22:23 PM
Quote from: ""TheSummitGives""
You all should be ashamed of yourselves for taking things out of that beautiful experience. The Summit is only for those that give themselves to the Summit. Those who did not have the fortitude to remain and complete the experience should not be allowed to feast upon its virtuous tools.
This is an interesting outlook on the search for the content of these workshops, however I think you are missing the point. I am looking for information on the three experiences I didnt go through, however my motive isn't feeding. 20 months of NWA and nine propheets left me more than a little sick. I want to know the content of the later experiences for perspective. An understanding of the theory and content of CEDU will allow me to assimilate the experience. Untill then it will remain raw.