Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on August 24, 2005, 09:19:00 PM
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Last time I checked Sembler is still standing. He has won. Regardless of the many thousands of post here. He is laughing at us. We have failed have we not?
Has the public learned enough to support us and expose the truth?
NO!
I fear we will never see our day. And that my friend is a travisty. We all deserve so much more.
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Fuck Sembler anyway. He is not the focus of my energy. He may be rich in money but he is devoid of what truly makes one rich in life: Love and compassion for your fellow human bein's. When it comes right down to it he must be a miserable person.
"Freeeeeee baby, i am freeeeeee from your spell" -B.B. King
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I'm with ya brother.........
same page.
Fuck Sembler
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That is a good point. As far as Sembler goes though, his life does not define mine. i have no desire for revenge.
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On 2005-08-24 20:05:00, dragonfly wrote:
"I keep wondering what it would be like to finally get out of straight and then learn that there was a group of people who knew I was in there being brainwashed, had gone through it themselves, knew how fucking pervasive and deep the shit goes but didn't even try to stop it from happening.
Aren't there kids still in programs like straight right now?
so yeah, are we failing those kids?
"
Hello :eek: check date on this thread please
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... orum=25&10 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=11143&forum=25&10)
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Saying "Fuck Sembler" might be good on the level of your own personal peace, but to ignore that child abusers walk free is to ignore the shit that has been going down and is still going down in child abuse institutions all over this Nation State. We were victimized, and as another postor has recently pointed out, this made us tired, and we failed to fight sooner, as in, get the motherfucking class action lawsuit rolling or a claims bill or what have you kind of action to bring the fact of our victim status and need for redress to the Table provided the citizens of the United States for such purposes. Everybody is. Those kids getting out of the Straights that are still open, they are facing what we faced. They are young and a good percentage of them are psychiatric casualties just like us. This leads me to believe that that right there is where some satisfaction lies: go on in and help these kids get their lawsuit together. That's one thing. But it is indeed a travesty that Mel Sembler, responsible party to child abuse and thousands of resulting psychiatric casualties, is not only a free man, but is a Chief Goof in the heirarchies of Goofs we got in power these days. It's a travesty. It should not be. What did we do wrong?
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"what did we do wrong?" - nothing, the child abuse industry was in full swing prior to any of us entering straight. Things take time. Wrong question. . . should be along the lines of what do we do next. I don't look at life from a failure perspective. Question should be "what can we do now to shed more light on our issues".
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On 2005-08-24 22:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Saying "Fuck Sembler" might be good on the level of your own personal peace, but to ignore that child abusers walk free is to ignore the shit that has been going down and is still going down in child abuse institutions all over this Nation State. We were victimized, and as another postor has recently pointed out, this made us tired, and we failed to fight sooner, as in, get the motherfucking class action lawsuit rolling or a claims bill or what have you kind of action to bring the fact of our victim status and need for redress to the Table provided the citizens of the United States for such purposes. Everybody is. Those kids getting out of the Straights that are still open, they are facing what we faced. They are young and a good percentage of them are psychiatric casualties just like us. This leads me to believe that that right there is where some satisfaction lies: go on in and help these kids get their lawsuit together. That's one thing. But it is indeed a travesty that Mel Sembler, responsible party to child abuse and thousands of resulting psychiatric casualties, is not only a free man, but is a Chief Goof in the heirarchies of Goofs we got in power these days. It's a travesty. It should not be. What did we do wrong?"
Okay, so how do you suggest I get newly released people to understand what happened to them was wrong? For instance Pathway Family Center clients. Everyone I have spoken with says they just basically want to move on and forget or they think it was a good place compared to straight.I have even had a well intentioned grad from there telling me I was being extreme for wanting to picket. I have maybe 2 people willing to speak out with me and they were in straight, not PFC.
I have been told that PFC has made major changes for the better (although probably not enough). My thing is even if they did change why in the world are the people who worked for straight and now there and practiced abusive techniques allowed to stay there. If they truly made changes then all people that participated in abusive practices should not be able to work there.
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The whole thing is abusive, don't you get it? Aside from any factors like privacy, physical abuse, etc., the fundamental child abuse that goes on in the Straight locations that are still open is known by several names: coercive persuasion, thought reform, mind control, brainwashing and behavior modification. There may be some differences in the specific definitions of these words, however, the point is that even if you take away all the physical abuse and the more glaring civil rights violations, you still have the fundamental violation which is, in fact, child abuse as well as a violation of human rights: the violation of the mind.
We most certainly went wrong in the way we handled what happened at Straight. You want to tell me I'm asking the wrong question, and then ask me to answer another one: what can we do now...? Well why don't you answer that question yourself with your creative and intelligent mind. You want to know if protests work? Go protest.
The kids who are recently out, whether they want to drop the subject, or they don't see the trouble at all, are uneducated. Their wish to drop the subject is not unsurprising considering how much anyone in this country gives two hoots about anyone else suffering child abuse or hunger or whatever. However, this does not excuse them from their responsibility. The ones who don't get it? They need education. The ones who do and are too tired or broken to do anything about it? They need healing and to be reminded of their obligation.
Why is it that that one boy who was sent to Love In Action to "cure" him of sexual proclivities towards the same sex generated instant national outcry and in-person demonstrations, and yet so many of us know what is going down in Straight locations that still exist, and we just don't do anything? Yes, life is busy. Yes, we are tired, to various degrees. Yes I am telling all of you that you are capable and damn well morally obligated to make a damn phone call or write a letter this week to someone somewhere regarding institutional child abuse. Be creative. I'm not going to list all the motherfukkin things you could do. And a huge thank you to webcrawler, as you are clearly already concerned and taking a little time from your already jam-packed life to do what you can about Pathways. And Antigen can save it with the "dedicated inactivist" shit, because having fornits is a tremendous action on this subject.
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On 2005-08-25 08:33:00, Anonymous wrote:
Why is it that that one boy who was sent to Love In Action to "cure" him of sexual proclivities towards the same sex generated instant national outcry and in-person demonstrations, and yet so many of us know what is going down in Straight locations that still exist, and we just don't do anything?
Well, first, I don't think you can fairly say that nobody's done anything. We've done protests, flyering, letter writing, conferences and there have been a steady stream of lawsuits going back to at least the early `80's.
Then some kid puts the rules and some other program info in his blog (like we haven't done THAT hundreds of times!) and all of a sudden it's making national headlines and sparking decent sized protests. Why? Because, despite the aparent might and girth of the religious reich, Americans generally recognize that it's wrong to try and beat the gay out of somebody. But they don't recognize that it's wrong to try and beat the 'bad' out of teenagers, especially where certain unpatentable drugs are concerned.
But I don't think we should really be all that surprised. This is going to take a very, very long time. We've been criminalizing youth for generations now. It starts out as early as we allow the professional pedagogs access to our kids.
And we all were subject to the same process. So now, in this generation, we accept that our kids will be assigned a school shrink when we send them to school. And we accept that very little education will go on there, but that's no longer the main objective. It's just a sideline, if that. I haven't seen a text book in years now where I can't find an obvious error or bald faced lie pretty easily within the first chapter. One science book listed the basic colors as red, yellow and green and an economics textbook stated that our primary function in society is to keep manufacturors and distributors employed by consuming whatever they ship out. What sane, healthy minded, self respecting human would not rebel against that?
We've got a LONG way to go, folks! I don't think the Program is a seperate, singular problem that we can solve just by letting the public know it's happening. They know. They don't give a shit. They see it and don't see it as a problem.
So, what to do? Get right and comfy in your own skin about it, however you go about it. Make sure your kids understand what's going on and have workable strategies to slide on by w/o sustaining too much damage. Encourage thoughtful discussion and dialog about the nature of the whole damned thing. And wait. It took several generations of Americans to coalesce to this. It'll take either a nasty civil breakdown or a long time (hopefully not both) to get back to the ideals of liberty and justice for all. I prefer the latter.
When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
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Anonymous . . . for obvious reasons
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"It starts out as early as we allow the professional pedagogs access to our kids"
:tup:
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Perhaps we should file a claims bill. There is no time limit on that. Even if we don't win we will be heard. That would be a story the media would follow.
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On 2005-08-25 15:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Perhaps we should file a claims bill. There is no time limit on that. Even if we don't win we will be heard. That would be a story the media would follow.
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Please contact me at [email protected], I am interested in discussing this.
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On 2005-08-25 16:58:00, Anonymous wrote:
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On 2005-08-25 15:49:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Perhaps we should file a claims bill. There is no time limit on that. Even if we don't win we will be heard. That would be a story the media would follow.
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Please contact me at [email protected], I am interested in discussing this."
i am interested in discussin' this too and i imagine that there are many survivors who read this board who would be interested in this discussion, as well. It would be great if you could have your discussion right here so we could all participate, then again i understand that the way people treat each other on this forum is not always conducive to unification of purpose. Please keep us posted and let us know what the results of your discussion are. Thanx.
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I would like to file a class action suit, I can fund these issues and more. I also have some files from the st of Fl.
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Greg, I am interested in these files you have from the State of Florida. Please email me at [email protected]. Thank you.
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Nobody gives a Shit about what happened to our middle aged asses 25 years ago but us. "Our Story" is just that ours nobody else gives a shit.
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On 2005-08-26 13:11:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Nobody gives a Shit about what happened to our middle aged asses 25 years ago but us. "Our Story" is just that ours nobody else gives a shit."
Sadly this seems to be true. I must point out though I am no where near middle aged yet! :lol:
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I'm leaving America partially because I see this as a systemic problem. Especially with the current administration. I never thought that I would leave but here I am leaving. Once I am back in my home country I will be contacting Amnesty International. They do not allow people to become active in problems in the countries that they live in, as a safety measure against reprisals. I am also wondering what exactly international laws are on holding a foreign national in a place like Straight, be sure I will find out. I do feel like we are letting down those who are there now. I don't know what I can do but I want to try. I have been out for 15yrs 10 of which I spent running below the radar, out of fear and craziness. I want to at least get some recognition that there is a problem, then maybe from there something can be done. The problem is that they broke many of us so badly that we have fallen through the cracks or tried to forget.
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On 2005-08-27 22:11:00, str8tohell wrote:
"I'm leaving America partially because I see this as a systemic problem. Especially with the current administration. I never thought that I would leave but here I am leaving. Once I am back in my home country I will be contacting Amnesty International. They do not allow people to become active in problems in the countries that they live in, as a safety measure against reprisals. I am also wondering what exactly international laws are on holding a foreign national in a place like Straight, be sure I will find out. I do feel like we are letting down those who are there now. I don't know what I can do but I want to try. I have been out for 15yrs 10 of which I spent running below the radar, out of fear and craziness. I want to at least get some recognition that there is a problem, then maybe from there something can be done. The problem is that they broke many of us so badly that we have fallen through the cracks or tried to forget. "
What country are you from orginally?
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I'm from the UK. I'd been here a very short time before I was locked up.... what a freak out,and I thought that culture shock was weird
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Your moving back to the UK? Why? It's so expensive there and the government has their hand in your back pocket at every turn. Hell you even have to pay to park in a hospital? England is a beautiful place but it lacks much of the opportunities we have here. I've been there many times but think there are better places to go. Have you ever been to Spain?
Take Care,
vsp
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I'm actually going to Scotland (I don't like England that much either)There are a lot of reasons. As a citizen I am entitled to free medical care ( a huge expense for me here, I have Fibromyalgia and a long list of other problems) I can finish my education for close to free. I just left UNM where I was studying History. With the political climate as it is at the moment it was very difficult to raise any criticism of the US govt. New Mexico has all of it's National Guard over in Iraq. Another big reason is the involvement of the Bush clan with the Semblers et al. One other thing is that I have always felt that there is a much great expectation of personal freedom in the UK than here. Prison is seen as a last resort there, not as a growth industry. Children are rarely locked up for any reason in the UK. Ideally I would prefer to stay here, but, the direction that this country barreling towards frightens me. The separation of church and state is becoming less well defined and there are torturers running the government. If I were a citizen of America I would stay to fight for the values that this country stands for. As it is however I can be arrested and held by the military without trial, defense, or just cause. Thanks to the patriot act, I can simply be 'disappeared', my family doesn't even need to be informed. We've all done that before and the results weren't exactly favorable for most of us. I don't think that it's at all likely that I would be locked up after all Scotland isn't exactly known for it's terrorists, but I never thought that a place like Straight could exist either. I'm a writer and a historian and as such I want to write about my experience in Straight and after. I don't want to censor myself out of fear of recrimination. I can do more for the kids who are still in those places if I am elsewhere. I am partially running away with my tail between my legs, but only so that I can get to a safe distance to run my mouth. I would not suggest that this would be the right thing to do if I were an American, after all dissent is one of the basic necessities of any democracy, especially America's. This is just what I must do. I don't think that Britain is so far removed from America in a lot of political areas, but there is more of a public forum on political issues. Words like feminist, liberal, socialist or union are not dirty words there. My personal standard of living will improve by my move there to, although in the long run I will make less money, fortunately for me money is a low priority. I hope someday that I will feel better about the American future. My husband is American and I would love to raise children here if the political climate were different. Speaking of climate, I'd much rather be hot as hell, sitting out on my porch in the middle of nowhere Texas, than freezing my ass of in the wet and dark of Glasgow. Bet you didn't expect a ten page thesis!!! It's just a complex issue for me. BTW you have to pay to park at Mass General too!! Let's see if I get blasted as being 'un-American' which I'm not, the gov sucks though
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Fibromyalgia & PTSD:
http://http://www.immunesupport.com/library/showarticle.cfm/ID/5797/e/1/T/CFIDS_FM/
I just thought I'd mention that, I hope you don't mind.
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very nice, thank you. was it also you who put the great link in on the long term studies thread? I am expecting to actually do my Phd. thesis on the history of PTSD/effects of war and torture through out mainly the 20th century. Most people who write about it do so from a solely clinical stand point. I have more personal insight in to the matter! I feel like I finally got my head into better shape and then my body started kicking my ass. :flame: Interesting stuff.
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Yes, I just started reading about that. It is really stunning, actually. I'm tuning in to what the war veterans are talking about, because they have put together resources for themselves, whereas we P.O.W. vets of the Drug War are kind of stumbling around in the dark. We were terribly terribly abused, and no one is helping us figure it out.
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str8tohell
Please check your Private Messages.
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On 2005-08-30 06:57:00, str8tohell wrote:
"very nice, thank you. was it also you who put the great link in on the long term studies thread? I am expecting to actually do my Phd. thesis on the history of PTSD/effects of war and torture through out mainly the 20th century. Most people who write about it do so from a solely clinical stand point. I have more personal insight in to the matter! I feel like I finally got my head into better shape and then my body started kicking my ass. :flame: Interesting stuff. "
I send much encouragement to you for your thesis plans. It's weird because when I was in the shower this morning I was thinking of what I am going to do for mine and the thought of researching people with PTSD that were in treatment facilities as teens came to mind.
I would like to see more studies done on what effects PTSD has on family members that have to live with a person who has it. I was reading with interest in another thread the post you made regarding PTSD and schizophrenia. My father has been diagnosed with both and my family has been taken for one hell of a long ride dealing with it.
My father and uncle are in and out of the VA hospital because of these conditions mentioned above and as far as I know the VA does not offer any resources to the family members who have to live daily with this. This is not an isolated problem to just the person afflicted from it because it effects everyone around them.
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On 2005-08-27 22:11:00, str8tohell wrote:
"I'm leaving America partially because I see this as a systemic problem. Especially with the current administration. I never thought that I would leave but here I am leaving. Once I am back in my home country I will be contacting Amnesty International. They do not allow people to become active in problems in the countries that they live in, as a safety measure against reprisals. I am also wondering what exactly international laws are on holding a foreign national in a place like Straight, be sure I will find out. I do feel like we are letting down those who are there now. I don't know what I can do but I want to try. I have been out for 15yrs 10 of which I spent running below the radar, out of fear and craziness. I want to at least get some recognition that there is a problem, then maybe from there something can be done. The problem is that they broke many of us so badly that we have fallen through the cracks or tried to forget. "
Your much more likely to end up in jail than any country on the planet.
Check out this startling page of statistics.
I am dumbfounded USA is the top of the list per capita
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri ... cap&int=-1 (http://www.nationmaster.com/graph-T/cri_pri_per_cap&int=-1)
This is a facinating site also......
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Hi. Just thought I'd speak up as someone who found this forum and the page on Straight through a Google search. I was never in any of these programs. I had no idea they existed. I've been through the forums, reading about the horrible things y'all were forced to go through. My heart has broken more than once as I read about so many children being brainwashed and broken.
Because of these stories, I wrote to my rep and asked him to support the End Institutional Child Abuse Act. I've also posted and talked to others about Straight and its descendants, letting other people know what I've found out. I wish there was more I could do.
Please don't think people don't care. I realize now how lucky I was that my parents didn't get sucked into this-- as someone raised conservative Christian in the south, I would've been a prime target. (Not that I did drugs-- but that didn't stop any of these programs before...)
Someone mentioned the Love in Action protests. I was a part of that, but it was thanks to reading about Straight and The Seed that I recognized the language in the LIA rules. I hope that someday when that kid is eighteen and no longer risks being sent away, he can find a support forum like this and put his mind back together.
I'll be moving to Orlando soon, so if there are any protests going on in the Central Florida area, I want to be there. Even though I didn't experience the abuse myself, I'm smart enough to know it's a bad thing and must be stopped.
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Thanks...we'll be n touch