Fornits

Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: Anonymous on March 04, 2003, 11:55:00 PM

Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: Anonymous on March 04, 2003, 11:55:00 PM
My mother and her counselor seem to be in agreement that I have no right to bring up Straight anymore or blame it for my current problems, and hence blame my mother for my current problems. After all, it has been sixteen years.

I sure would like to know other people's thoughts on this.
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: 2dogs on March 05, 2003, 01:12:00 AM
Get over it. You can blame in one hand and shit in the other ....        Joey
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: ehm on March 05, 2003, 01:36:00 AM
It's been 17 years here. That's the human brain for you. Trauma has this way of staying with you. I still can't speak to my mom. It's what is best for you. I can't talk to my mom, she's a brick wall. It's a void I have to live with.
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: chinrse23 on March 05, 2003, 06:40:00 AM
Sounds like your mom is still in denial of the situation.  As a parent, she was probably in denial of the situation when she put you in that place and remember they were brainwashed too.

Unfortunately, she may not be able to get over something like that.  Guilt can be very devastating.

And if she has gotten over it, just because she has doesnt mean that you have to.
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: ClayL on March 05, 2003, 10:39:00 AM
I don't even try to talk about any of this with my dad. He's the type person that I have never seen admit any mistake. I also believe that parents who began to understand what straight was doing and did nothing carry a ton of guilt and the ones that didn't still carry a bunch of guilt because they were incapable for raising their own children. Straight gave them a way to absolve themselves by blaming US for messing up the entire family instead of their parenting skills. On the surface, this sounds good also. I still believe that if my dad had been more interested in my welfare than looking like a perfect christian family, things would have been different. That is a whole different cans of worms though. As it stands today, my dad doesn't have to understand any of this. I do. If he wants to assist me then fine, but until I got back intouch with the other ex-clients of straight, I had been doing it on my own for quite some time.

CL
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: Froderik on March 05, 2003, 11:09:00 AM
I'm right there with you, Clay. Some things are better left alone. My mom is pretty much the same way as your dad is. I can't really see any good reason to try to 'win', so why bother? I also had been pretty much cut off from family (most of the time by my own choice) for a while, up until kids came into the picture (about 7 years ago.) So for most of my 20's, I was on my own, maybe seeing them on holidays...
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: mcadaret on March 05, 2003, 03:16:00 PM
Below is a post I sent on another thread, but it seems appropriate here. Clay sums up my life 16 years later. Over it - yes and no. Some things are great, others are not.

The old post begins here:
I post on this forum often, but I do keep a close eye on it. But, I've been reading this thread, and need to say that my father has his head so far up his ass on Straight that I don't think he'll ever see the light of day.

I actually searched out this and Wes Fager's site after my father talked about how great he thought Straight was for me. That was last July 4th. On the drive home after a long silence, I said to my wife, "Dad's full of shit." And the weirdest sensation went over me. "Full of shit." A wave of memories from Straight. I had always retained some limited memory, but over the passing of 15 years I had put some things away, so to speak. They were all coming back. My wife drove, and I told her stories, intermitently crying and yelling. She just drove with tears streaming down her face.

July 5th rolled around, and she asked what I was going to do about all this. I did a Google search and found websites. My wife and I read through them, and she observed that they explained much, my insomnia, nightmares, temper, insecurity, paranoia, and (that totally fucked-up straightling word) "awfulizing." (My step-mother constantly uses that word. After I pointed out to my wife that it was straight-speak, we agreed to strike it from our collective vocabulary.)

My wife comes and hugs me now, when she notices that it's 3:00am and I'm not sleeping. She never had given it any thought before. If she notices that I'm having a nightmare, she wakes me, takes me to look at our kids sleeping, and whispers "they're what's real to you now." When I am assuming that things are going to turn out shitty, she reminds me to have faith saying, "they can't hurt you anymore." She lets me sleep with a light on. I couldn't be more blessed than to have her be understanding the way she has been.

My dad. I love him, but we're not close. My kids love him, but they sense my tension when we are around him. But fuck him. We have a surface relationship - my wife and I do the obligatory crap. He doesn't really know who I am anymore and hasn't for some time. I don't rely on him for identity or esteem anymore. That makes me sad - that I could really give less than a shit that we aren't close. I wish it were another way, but it's not and probably won't be. That reality predates my entering Straight, but the fact of the matter is, my being in Straight was one of his deepest abandonments of me, his son. Sadly, I doubt that I will ever reconcile that feeling. I was pissed off righteously for what seemed like an eternity, and now I just feel sad. Sad that I would just say "fuck him," but hey, "FUCK HIM."

I recently have really hurt his feelings. I'm about to graduate from seminary and be ordained as a minister in the Episcopal Church. Neither he nor his wife are getting one of the limited tickets to my graduation, nor am I asking him to present me for ordination. He told me that he felt "disappointed." Guess what I thought? That's right let's say it all together now - "FUCK HIM." I told him that the people who helped to put my life right were the ones I asked to participate in these huge events in my life. I guess I am still pissed-off, but mostly I am sad that my first response to my dad is ... well you know what it is.

Anyway. Thanks for being so patient with my rant.

I pray we all find peace somehow, someway.
This is where I left the old post.


your brother,
Michael Cadaret

In order to live free and happily you must sacrifice boredom. It is not always an easy sacrifice.
-- Richard Bach

Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: like a bird on March 05, 2003, 08:03:00 PM
no comprendo, dude
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: like a bird on March 05, 2003, 08:13:00 PM
thanks mc, clayl, morli, and everyone

money is the big sticking point for me with my mom. I feel like she owes it to me to get me through school because my schooling has been confounded by all the compounded poverty and PTSD and all leftover from Straight. but SHE talks about how much $ I owe her. that's what starts me saying "wait a minute, you put me in Straight. There are people who got million dollar settlements from that." I would not NEED the money from her if I had not been made so crazy by that place.

the other funny thing is that I can hardly remember Straight these days. I think it comes from living with her.

all I am saying is she fucked up putting me in there, why not just admit it and take responsibility by paying for school, at least.
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: 2dogs on March 06, 2003, 09:59:00 PM
What are you...12? No one owes you shit. How long have you been out of Straight? I would bet it's been long enough. Parents are only responsible until you become an adult. Yes, it would be so sweet to see my folks break down in tears begging for forgiveness for putting me in some shit-hole instead of just being better parents, but how fucking long are you willing to live the life you are living while you wait for that fantasy to come true. Don't mean to be harsh ,but fuck dude thats so weak.

   No way am I going to sit around obsessed with trying to figure out what everyone "owes" me while I fuck-up the life of my kid.  Hey I'm way better off than a lot of parents because I've got a huge amount of information on what NOT to do.   ( I don't know if you got kids , I'm just talking about myself.)
  I know this didn't make much sense at this point . Don't worry about it.

     ....Joey
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: Anonymous on March 07, 2003, 12:14:00 AM
Let me respond to "No one owes you shit" and "Parents are only responsible until you become an adult."
Oh really? I think someone does owe all of us. You are right we can't sit around waiting for it. I guess after all these years I am still not tired of bringing up Straight and hearing her tell me to get over it. Years and years of this. Why should my parents get amnesty now just because a number of years have passed? If you shot your kid in the knees when he was sixteen, would you quit owing him reparations when he was 18 or 21? No. If you really hurt someone you owe them, no matter how long you run away and deny your responsibility.  
Why does it seem different when it is our parents? Because parents have this wierd amnesty. If you hit or molest your neighbors kid, the repercussions are a whole lot harsher than if you do it to your own kid. (although this might be changing)
Should all those people suing the priests for molestation just "get over it"? I think they have every right to expect compensation from the church. At the VERY least, money for whatever counseling type thing they might need to help them get over it.



Your post sounds confused -- like you are still really pissed at your parents, but don't want anyone talk about how mad we are at our parents.

Also, dude, I gotta point out, that was a wicked harsh come back.

And for another thing, yes, I am like 12. Get to know me. On the other hand, keep your distance you big potty mouth.
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: ClayL on March 07, 2003, 09:22:00 AM
Who says  my parents have an amnesty? There are huge parts of my life that I will not let my parents into. All the work I've done to "get over it," being the primary thing that comes to mind. There is an incalcuable amount of knowledge and experience that has come from having to learn how to grow up on my own and clearing out the emotional wreakage that strgight left me with. These are experiences that few have and have left me with an obsidion will. Straight also left me with some life long scars and quite a few unwanted, for lack of a better word, habits.

I, when I am being a participant in the great game, have no time for the blame game. If some of these efforts grant me a windfall then fine by me. Nobody owes me anything. Shitty things happen and I had the right number, in the great cosmic scheme of things, for them to happen to me. I have seen worse happen to better people and I have seen better happen to completely underseving people. To me, life has to be neither equitable nor fair and I have to live with whats in front of me. I believe this is what 2dogs was saying. I, also enjoy the fantasy of never having had any of this happen, hell I even work it out to where there was one choice I made that could have changed the whole thing. But you'll notice it was still a choice I made. I was a shithead when I went in there and was even a bigger, know it all, shit head when I came out. I did know a couple of things for sure:

1). My parents were under the impression that straight saved my life. (GAK!)

2). I never wanted to be in that position again.

After a long while I learned that because of that place, I was full blown bat-shit crazy. At least now I can hold down a productive job, but I am still a little nutty.

I am not going to say "get over it." I am not sure that is something that will ever happen, either now or in the near future. I am going to say that the pain all this has caused me is my responsibility to deal with. Accepting the responsibility or denying it will not change this. Taking it out on others, no matter how culpable, will never help me to live my life and is not a healing process. I guess this is true only because I was the one with my ass in the little-blue-chair. Someone not having their ass in the little-blue-chair will never understand and trying to make them is impossible.

Clay
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: ehm on March 07, 2003, 10:24:00 AM
I don't think we can sue our parents for malpractice, although that would be nice. My mom has nothing left anyway. Fuck her.(in the nicest way possible)
I wouldn't waste your mental energy if I were you. You have to many other important things to do, than wait for something that quite possibly will never happen to happen. Especially if she thinks you owe her for handing you over for some one else to raise! Bad Parents! Sure Mom, just garnish my wages for your ignorance!
     
Cut the cord!

It will make room for better relationships to come into your life. Heathy ones. Real ones. Caring ones.

Guilt is not a family value.

Tell your mom to go buy the newest issue of "Parenting", or to sue you!!               Sometimes it's just best to laugh.
I've been there.
Take care.
Morli

[ This Message was edited by: Morli on 2003-03-08 16:18 ]
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: Anonymous on March 07, 2003, 11:20:00 PM
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah

okay, here's what I don't get. you go into a hospital, say, and they botch your surgery, and it leaves you handicapped.

isn't someone responsible?

and say that you were not sick with what they said you were sick with, so the surgery was completely unnecessary.

isn't someone responsible?

and let's say that you had been feeling sick and were in pain but your parents got tired of dealing with you so they sent you off to the wrong kind of hospital and they never checked in to who your doctor was or how the place was run, they just dropped you off and signed you over. and then they did come to visit you, and never cared that you had on a blindfold and a gag when you were supposed to be healing.

do they not then enter into responsibility?

and when this hospital leaves you too sick to deal with what healthy people are dealing with in their twenties, and otherwise dramatically affects your life leaving you homeless and so on,

is not some sort of justice and compensation in order?

when people HURT people in this society, unless it is pure accident, we expect them to "pay their debt" with prison time or fines or something else.

I am not sure what effect this version of justice (the prison time and fines) is supposed to have. Punishment never changes the original crime.

However, malpractice awards DO serve to help people put their lives back in order. They pay for a person's continuing medical care, for one thing. They also, in my opinion, serve by taking away from the offending party a significant portion of their wealth, which serves to deplete their power.

Doesn't anyone else see it this way? I don't think it is that hard. What is hard is how many times we have brought up Straight, never mind any money issues, and had our parents throw scalding water on us.

Oh, you know what else I think it is, I think that because emotional problems are invisible we think that they are not real. Because we often eventually do find our way out of them, after years and years, we think that we could have done so all along, and so we tell other people who have those same problems that they could get over it if they wanted to. I know that people on this board know Straight victims who have had to be hospitalized for psychological assistance because of the damage that Straight did. I know that people on this board know that they have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder, and that it deeply affects their lives, making ordinary things very difficult.

WE do not take Straight seriously. I bring it up, once in a blue blue moon to other people and they cry while I try to brush it off. It is not nothing. Minds and hearts are real and can be tortured just as bodies can. It is not something to "get over", it is something to heal from, in loving kindness.


I think that my emotions where my mom is concerned are a tangled mess. I think she could undo a lot of the tangling by taking responsibility for putting me in Straight.  I hear another part of what everyone is saying here -- that she may never do this, and so it would be better if I did not wait.  

However, I think it is very different to say to someone "you are owed justice, and you have not been granted justice, so I understand your frustration, but you may never get justice so it might help you to come to terms with that"
and to say "well you're never going to get any cash so grow up" which is what people seem to be saying here.

I am not looking for "cash". I am looking for justice, which means those responsible "pay their debt", make reparation. To repair! In large part this will have to mean money. I don't advocate prison time for our parents. I do for those in power at Straight. I also suspect that the government owes all of us because it was culpable for allowing (encouraging?) Straight to operate.

I feel that my parents are in a way more responsible than anyone at Straight. Straight was a big crazy institution running on the momentum of a bizarre power trip -- I don't expect such an instution to care.

Clear it up, make it right. They are still hunting down Nazis, and bank robbers and murderers from the sixties, and priests who molested kids thirty years ago.

Or, do we not believe in justice?
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: 2dogs on March 08, 2003, 12:18:00 AM
This is the most valiant effort I have ever seen of someone trying to blame everyone else for where they ended up. You didn't get out of Straight yesterday...did you?  
  I said "when you become an adult" not "18 or 21". And by adult I mean responsible for ones self. You should try it . It really does feel good. All that horse-shit about sueing someone is so fucked-up it even makes a good tree-huger like me sick.
 I have no anger at my folks, shit my dad is dying and I'm his care-taker, and he still loves to talk all "tough love". Hate to say it but Straight was right when they said that whole bit about "resentments only hurt YOU."
   How can you blame your parents? They were just as dupped as you , only that generation is way more prone to serious denile. Besides how many times did YOU sit in your "phaserized" home and sell the program to your mom in the days after you joyously yelled "COMING HOME"?
  Everyone knows it was wrong , even your Mom. So now what ? You NEED someone to be hurt or give you money to be ok? I don't get it. Well I kinda do , I mean I felt the way you do back in the 80's after I graduated when the brainwashing was wearing off. Sorry you still feel the injustice so strongly around you. I wish I had better words than just giving you shit. I really would like to say the right thing to help but I'm not sure what to say to someone sitting where you're sitting so I'll have to settle for just giving you shit...sorry....Joey
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: METALGOD8 on March 08, 2003, 02:44:00 AM
::bangin::

Ah, shit,  :smokin:


PS. I go about 3 times a day myself, nowadays, I can't hold it either, LOL....but, I think STRAIGHT, INC. bullshit treatment ruptured my colon. If that deserves no justice, then what does?  :rofl:
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: ClayL on March 08, 2003, 09:50:00 AM
However, malpractice awards DO serve to help people put their lives back in order. They pay for a person's continuing medical care, for one thing. They also, in my opinion, serve by taking away from the offending party a significant portion of their wealth, which serves to deplete their power.


You are wrong here. All the runaway malpractice suits have done is remove a few Dr.s who would have climbed from the gene pool anyway and drive up the cost of good medicine for everyone.

I have a question. So what are you going to do? Have everyone, including your parents and family members thrown in prison for doing what they thought was best for you? That they were completely wrong is not the point. To live life, I have to take responsibility for the things that have happened. Until I do this, I will be unable to grow and mature in ANY meaningful fashion. Caterwalling about how my parents shitted me is not going to help me grow or be an adult today. Is there pain there, hell yes. Is it going to kill me? In a word NO. I have lived through MUCH worse. What I experience today is a pimple on the ass of the universe compared to what I experienced in that place. I also believe in a just and equitable God and my firm rule is I have to treat people the way I would like them to treat me. That includes people telling me when I am wrong. Doesn't say I have to believe them.

Let me ask you this. say you go to a financial advisor and they get you to invest a good deal of your hard earned cash into something. Something completely legal, but risky. You end up losing all the money you put in the investment. Are you going to continue using that advisor? Are you going to find another advisor that you can trust not to lose your money? Less risky, more stable.

Why do you do the same thing with you parents? Pounding your head into a brinck wall is not going to cause the wall to fall. Or put another way, if you keep hitting trees, stop driving in the forest.

Here's some more food for thought. Perhaps your Mother likes setting you off, a control issue. Perhaps this is her game. My sister used to do the same thing to me up until I figured out that I am an adult and I can play  or not play. The choice is entirely mine. When I took the control, the game ended.

Lastly, the Nazi comparasson fails. The Nazis killed 10 of millions of people. The "crimes" committed against us are of a more esoteric nature. Straight was no Buchenwald, Bergen-Belson, Auswitz, or Treblinka. Staff did not decide who lived and who died on a daily basis. To draw such a comparason belittles the Holocaust and what happened to the gays, jews, jehova's witnesses, gypsies, and mentally handicapped. In my enitre experience with straight I can remember no one starved, beaten, frozen, shot, gassed, electricuted or otherwise killed in a brutal and systematic manner. Straight was brutal, but completely fails when compared to the nazi atrosities of World War 2. You ought to read up on it. You didn't have it so bad.

CL
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: like a bird on March 08, 2003, 03:00:00 PM
Clay, you did not read my post very carefully.

You say: "I have a question. So what are you going to do? Have everyone, including your parents and family members thrown in prison for doing what they thought was best for you?"

I specifically stated that I do not believe in prison time for our parents.

You say: "Lastly, the Nazi comparasson fails."

Okay, but what about the bank robbers from the sixties they continue to pursue? Drug dealers from a decade or two ago who have relocated under aliases and are living decent lives?

Also, in the beginning of your post you say: "You are wrong here. All the runaway malpractice suits have done is remove a few Dr.s who would have climbed from the gene pool anyway and drive up the cost of good medicine for everyone."

You seem to be unaware of real live people who have been injured, and who, without insurance payoffs and lawsuits, would be left without medical care for continued problems, further operations, physical therapy, and so on.

And as for the mention of Nazis, I don't think there is a soul here who believes that what they went through compares in intensity of horror to what the Nazis put the Jews and other groups through. I think we continue to bring it up because it resonates with us, to be kidnapped, locked up, and abused by people on a power trip, plus the elements of mind control Hitler used to get an army and a whole nation behind him.

I do not understand the fervor of your replies to me. Why does it get you so angry? Why the vitriol?
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: like a bird on March 08, 2003, 03:29:00 PM
Reply to 2dogs:

You say: "How can you blame your parents?"

Because they were in their forties, college-educated adults. I know a lot of people here think that the parents were just as brainwashed, but I have a hard time really believing that. If they were locked up along with us, sure. But they could see the control, they knew we sat in blue chairs all day long and never saw the sun, they knew we were led around by our belt loops, and they could have and ought to have done some research and discoverd the lawsuits that had already been brought against Straight.

You say: "All that horse-shit about sueing someone is so fucked-up"

I am curious, do you think that those who were in Straight and other such programs should not sue Mel Sembler and the other big Straight people? Do you really think that is "horse-shit"? Even if it never works, if it never happens, do you not think we would be just in suing them?

You say: "Besides how many times did YOU sit in your "phaserized" home and sell the program to your mom in the days after you joyously yelled "COMING HOME"?"

I toed the party line, so to speak, because I was terrified not to, as we all were. If at any point after first phase I put in for a withdraw, I would have been set back or terrorized in the intake room. I was playing their game, and I lost my own sense of the truth because I was too afraid to speak the truth, even to myself, for a long time.

You say: "You NEED someone to be hurt or give you money to be ok?"

I know I never said that I needed someone to be hurt for me to be ok. Never ever, go back and read my posts, did I say that? Don't say I said something that I didn't say. You are doing the same thing Clay did.

I will say that money would help with a lot of things. Of course it doesn't necessarily make things okay, but anyone who has been on skid row knows the power of money to help.

"I mean I felt the way you do back in the 80's after I graduated when the brainwashing was wearing off. Sorry you still feel the injustice so strongly around you. I wish I had better words than just giving you shit. I really would like to say the right thing to help but I'm not sure what to say to someone sitting where you're sitting so I'll have to settle for just giving you shit...sorry....Joey" "

Joey, I did feel your reply to me was harsh, and I am having to defend myself on a number fronts. I appreciate that you seem to want to help, and that you are sorry that you don't know any other way than by giving me shit.

I don't really think I need help here. I just kind of posted this topic originally because I felt tangled up about the whole thing. I agree with people who responded, albeit harshly, that I cannot waste my life waiting around for my mom to come through. It is a very old beef I have with her, from years and years of family patterns. That is mine to work out.

I disagree with the personal attacks, the rude mischaracterizations ("No cash for like a bird", among others), the sentiment that we are not owed anything, in short, the bizarre harshness.

I do find it interesting. It does remind me of both the way my family fights, which I am completely sick of, and it also reminds me of the rebuttal-by-intense-attack method we learned in Straight. Reading through the responses, I find myself flashing back to the building and the blue chairs. I am glad that I am not in person with several of the people who responded. I am glad this is a written forum so I can respond more rationally than I would be able to in person.

peace 2dogs,
bird
 
p.s. just curious about the origin of your moniker if you want to explain it
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: like a bird on March 08, 2003, 03:33:00 PM
thanks for gunning for me, brother.
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: ehm on March 08, 2003, 06:20:00 PM
Posted: 2002-09-30 12:12:00 by Antigen: How to raise kids.

What would I do? Well, if I had the kind of money at my disposal to send my daughter to one of these places, I might take it and go hike the AT WITH her. With the cash we'd have leftover, I suppose we'd go and pursue whatever interests we may have discussed during the walk. But I never had that kind of money. So, instead, I just kept the lines of communication open and kept reminding her that, contrary to what her psycho boyfriend kept telling her, we do still love her very deeply and her old friends do too. The bottom line, though, is that when a kid decides that they'll no longer accept the authority of their parents there's really not a whole lot we can do to control them. You have to let them go sometimes and take their own lumps. What's so hard about that? There are 6 billion of us on this planet with several thousands of years worth of history that do not include Synanon based thought reform. How do you suppose the human race has managed to survive this long without the convenience of paying professionals to rough up our children when they step out of line?


I've for years told my mom how destructive the TWO thought reform centers she sent me to were. She always says, "What was I supposed to do?" My responce has always been, "Why not love me enough to raise me yourself?"

I agree with Ginger 100%. COMMUNICATION is the only way to be a good parent. There is no expiration date for parenting. I have a 12 year old daughter, who knows she can tell me anything a.k.a. she trusts me, and knows I love her. I was online yesterday looking at Sunhawk Academy,(not because I wanted to send her away), after filling out their questionaire on-line, I was reffered to a list of options for placement of her. According to the answers I gave (which were honest), my daughter qualified! So I called, asking about legal rights of the child, still maintaining that I was looking into their program. Then came the Red Flags..."You as a parent have to trust us, the program will not work without your trust, and children have many different manipulation tactics," blah, blah. This woman's name was Stacy Bradley. Okay, thank you very much but no thanks. Wilderness resedential therapy or Boot-camp etc, same thing, I was in one for 18 months, and then in Straight inc another almost 2 years. They chewed me up and spit me out! Salesmanship club, Sunhawk, Straight, same difference. Handing your kid over for someone else to fix is NEGLECT!!! Especially when these places are not hospitals, with real Med. professionals, but instead, greedy, moral-absent con-artists with education degrees! Education of: How to run a child consentration camp! Qualifications matter. I'm shocked at people's ignorance. My daughter is a well adjusted, bright, beautiful little girl, and I give myself some credit, I am raising her, I am an authoritative parent. Life has its ups and downs, but LOVE rules. Neglect is the opposite of love and screams irresponsability!
Love,
Morli
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: ClayL on March 09, 2003, 03:42:00 AM
Imagine my dismay, I think I am having a discussion and I am in disagreement, when (POOF!) I am all of a sudden accused of spewing vitriol like lava from a primordial volcanoe. I have come to the conclusion that an extremely dry whit does not translate well to email. I am not angry in the least and just think you are wrong. I just happen to believe that wishing for vengence and compensation, although they would be nice, are a complete waste of time. Would you like to know what my siblings were doing while I was in straight? My sister, who was in college, had my parents paying all her bills, gave her a credit card for expenses, food and gas, provided her with a new car. My brother, wasn't in college yet, but he got the same things and they let him leave highschool everyday just after lunch. He won a perfect attendence award that year. They also sent them both to europe for 2 months one summer.

I did get a car when I got out of highschool, but straight bitched at them for this. So I lost two+ years of my life in that place while my siblings were smoking dope, snorting coke, and dropping acid amoung other things all while living the life of Riley. Whoever he was. Once I went to college, it was all I could do to get help with tuition. I, to say the least, am a little bitter about this lack of equity in my life.

I have a BA in history, so that's where the disagreement over the Nazi thing comes from. Historical inaccuracies drive me nuts.

No vitriol, just a difference of opinion. Last thing, you will most likely be unable to sway my opinion on the runaway malpractice settlements. Medicine has been VERY good to me. Please note, I am not saying ALL malpractice suits are bad, just thngs like $100 Million for an ingrown toe nail and the like. Do you realize that an OB-GYN cannot get malpratice insurance in Nevada anymore?  Not even through a hospital. The insurance companies have decided it is to much of a risk for them. That is what I mean by "runaway".

I am fairly certain that this wouldn't come through the same way in a face-to-face conversation.

CL
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: Majiktrvls on March 09, 2003, 10:23:00 AM
Clay,
Thank you for the rational responses that you offer.I am in full agreement with your opinions, especially the ones about the fact that we are adults now, and that we have the right to choose to be living in blame and resentments, or living in forgiveness and peace with our pasts. We all had some shit thrown at us years ago, indeed we did. I, for one, do not choose to live with such hatred of my tormenters, whether they be the staff, executives, my parents, or myself. I include myself because if I had not behaved in the ways that I did, my parents would not have been forced into a desperation state to try to save me. I cannot blame them for the desperation that they suffered thru, I caused the desperation by my own actions. I know that back then, treatment centers were not on every corner, there was only one hospital that had anything to do with addictions or the like in the town that I am from. It cost an enormous amount of money, and was not exactly proven to be effective. So, my folks took a chance on the program offered by Straight/ATlanta. They were duped into believing that it was a miracle center, and they were desperate enough with my behaviors to fall into the clutches. How in the world can I blame them for making an attempt to help me. They did not know. For me, I do not choose to live the rest of my life caught up in the blame/resentment way of thinking. It is not conducive to my current well being.
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: Anonymous on March 09, 2003, 10:23:00 AM
Hi like a bird,
My sub-topic "no cash for like a bird" was in no way meant harshly. I'm sorry if you read it, and took it that way. I've been where you are, but you just can't get 'blood from a turnip', so to speak. The mental anguish of pursuing such compensation would  just not be worth it to me. I'm sorry if it sounded like I was mocking you, I promise I wasn't. When I was 10 years out of Straight, I wanted to sue the hell out of my mom,(when she still had some money) but 10 years later, I'd rather just love my family, the family I've made for myself. Like I said in my first post, I can't even talk to my mother, she's a brick wall, trying to climb that wall just to see the emptiness on the other side is just not worth it to me anymore, my heart has been broken enough. I'm so tired of fighting with her, it's only destructive to my mental health. Hence, a waste of my precious time here on Earth. I even used to say, "Well, at least I'll get some money out of the life insurance policy when she dies." I don't care about that anymore either. Money can't bring back what was lost.A little over two years ago my dearest love, best friend, husband and the Father of my beautiful daughter, was killed in a car accident. My daughter was only nine. Our lives are forever changed. I receive social security now for the both of us, and I don't even need to work. People who don't know me, or my situation, who ask me where I work, and I reply, "I don't." Almost always say, "Must be nice." I don't respond. Nothing can make up for losing Darren, nothing. Please understand, I was not saying that to be mean. I'm not a mean person. I am, like you, a survivor. I hope you accept my apology.
With deepest sincerity,
Morli

P.S. Karma will catch up with parents who wrong thier children.
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: ehm on March 09, 2003, 10:27:00 AM
Oops, that post was from me.
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: velvet2000 on March 09, 2003, 03:22:00 PM
There are a few people who come here and say that they are "over" what happened to them and people who aren't "over it" are "weak". Why then would someone who is "over it" spend so much time here? Why would that person look up "the straights" on their search engine in the first place?

It doesn't matter whether you have emotionally healed, if you are currently healing, or if you are completely torn apart. It doesn't matter if you have a happy family of your own and a great job, if you struggle to further yourself every day, or if you are a transient. Abuse is abuse and the abuse that happened here has had presidential support and government funding, and there are still programs like it getting government funding, and that needs to be made public and the abusers held accountable for it. If you were abused by somone it is your RESPONSIBILITY to do the best that you can to stop that person from abusing someone else.
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: like a bird on March 09, 2003, 07:01:00 PM
Thanks Morli, for saying that. I also appreciated your earlier post on responsible parenting.

I am sorry for your and your daughter's loss.
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: like a bird on March 09, 2003, 07:32:00 PM
In an earlier post, I said: "However, malpractice awards DO serve to help people put their lives back in order. They pay for a person's continuing medical care, for one thing. They also, in my opinion, serve by taking away from the offending party a significant portion of their wealth, which serves to deplete their power."


And then you replies: "You are wrong here. All the runaway malpractice suits have done is remove a few Dr.s who would have climbed from the gene pool anyway and drive up the cost of good medicine for everyone."

Now in this post you say: "Last thing, you will most likely be unable to sway my opinion on the runaway malpractice settlements. Medicine has been VERY good to me. Please note, I am not saying ALL malpractice suits are bad, just thngs like $100 Million for an ingrown toe nail and the like."

I wasn't trying to sway your opinion on the "runaway" malpractice suits because I never mentioned "runaway" malpractice suits.

And another thing, I never even mentioned "vengeance".

I apologize for accusing you of vitriolic postings, but your words did feel very caustic. You do not read what I say carefully, because in your posts you twist my words and say I said things I didn't say. It feels like an attack, not a disagreement.

In your most recent post you even talk about the injustice of the scene with your parents and you and your siblings. It seems like, and I am not going to say for you how you feel, but it SEEMS like you understand about having lingering resentment.

Why can't we just have the feelings we have about what happened, including having various feelings about it to this very day? Why do some people have to go on at length about how wrong I am, and --especially 2dogs -- ridicule me for thinking a certain thing, or feeling a certain way? THAT right there is what I don't get, and as much as I got your ire up by characterizing your replies as "vitriol"-ic, you can understand then my ire at being not only misunderstood but attacked.

I do sense that you don't mean harm, but perhaps you can understand some of my perceptions about your posts.
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: like a bird on March 09, 2003, 07:36:00 PM
thanks
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: Anonymous on March 09, 2003, 11:09:00 PM
"Why can't we just have the feelings we have about what happened, including having various feelings about it to this very day? Why do some people have to go on at length about how wrong I am, and --especially 2dogs -- ridicule me for thinking a certain thing, or feeling a certain way? THAT right there is what I don't get, and as much as I got your ire up by characterizing your replies as "vitriol"-ic, you can understand then my ire at being not only misunderstood but attacked."

Because our teens are a highly developemental time for us, and we spent that time in an environemnt where people used cruelty to attack other peoples emotions. Then in order for us to get out of that environment faster or to be accepted we started attacking the way that they did and were rewarded for it. It's very, very hard to get rid of all of those habits. We all have a few Straight habbits tucked in us that we can't see.
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: Anonymous on March 11, 2003, 02:14:00 AM
I looked up Straight to look for some old friends. I'm sure I'm not the only one who didn't specifically come here all fucked-up.
  I never gave a rats ass about anyone who was still trying to work it out until a couple of you cry-babies started giving people shit for being "over it ".  Some people just don't really care that this shit happened to them. I don't. Big fucking deal. If you are hurting, thats where you are.  That sucks , but it's not my fault. And pretty much , go fuck your selves if you don't like me just because I am not bothered by dumb-ass closed down Straight Inc. And fuck all thier offspring too...Threre are plenty of better reasons to hate me.
   "2dogs" is my Apache name. Well my full Apache name is "2 dogs fucking"....Joey
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: ClayL on March 11, 2003, 03:40:00 AM
It has always amazed me to watch someone ask for an opinion of something and then, because they dislike the opinion, bitch about it. I've said my piece and been bitch-slapped and praised for it. I personally think some people are just playing devil's advocate and grousing about the sour grapes. The best part of being human, I don't have to keep repeating the same mistakes expecting a different result. Some people find this to be a definition of insanity....

Clay
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: METALGOD8 on March 11, 2003, 11:08:00 AM
For someone who is "over it" you sure do sound quite angry about straight victims and their individual situations in the present day scene. Please relax, take a deep breath, avoid the boards if you have to, or something, but I really do not appreciate being told to fuck off. I think that some people are over it and some aren't. Certainly they are entitled either way, to be or not be, it is not up to you. Your way is not the only way, and if others aren't heeding your wishes, then too bad. The world was here before you and will most likely be here after you are gone, so it is in your best interest to make the best of a horrible situation and support each other, right?

MG8 :smokin:
Title: "Are you still not over it?"
Post by: 2dogs on March 11, 2003, 12:03:00 PM
I was actually laughing while I wrote that. Electrons don't get me angry too often, but I even think it's funnier how you and a few others like to tell people that they "are angry" and "calm down" , like it's some bad person who has less to his/her credit if they are accused of being less than agreeable. Why don't  you , un-relax  and stop breathing so deep.Makes just about as much sense. I didn't specically tell you to "fuck-off" , unless you are saying you hate me because I'm over it. Then ,you can piss on yourself while you are at it. Anyone who is not over it is fine by me unless you start that "group's will" bullshit about EVERYBODY must not be ok since you are still tripping....Joey