Fornits
Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform => Straight, Inc. and Derivatives => Topic started by: animals all of us on August 15, 2004, 03:42:00 PM
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[ This Message was edited by: animals all of us on 2004-09-09 20:31 ]
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Free speech is good, even obnoxious free speech. However when you say it you own it and frankly many of the things said around here are childish, without crediblity, and/or just plain idiotic.
Some of the things spewed around here I would be very ashamed of myself if I said. Integrity, respect and honor should guide what you have to say, and often in absense of applying those things, you should say nothing.
This forum started as a place for people to come share ideas and explore what really happened to them. I was fortunate to be one of those people who found Ginger's forum long before it was fornits. Over the years it has morphed into a place where many many people just seem to want to insult and degrade not only others but themselves. That is a shame.
That being said, this still is a cool place. Too bad uncool people come here but that is the price we pay for a free and open forum.
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I will count myself among the COOL people in the post you wrote, G.
You are a good writer with a level head. But yeah, I think we're all in agreement here that this forum could use some editing skills.
Another thing that stuck with me in what GW said is that journalism is not easy. So many people trying to be journalists, I am at fault here too, and it winds up becoming an issue of pride or prejudice. I wrote a code of ethics a few weeks back regarding some of the issues you mentioned: integrity, respect, and honor.
I see some people, I'm not faultless here, just want to make the score card even when it comes to finding justice for themselves. I mentioned it because I am thinking this forum is not really the place to discuss issues about finding one's enemies and rendering them equal or whatever.
At the very least I think I would agree that those sorts of things should be left unsaid. And inasmuch as keeping justifiable emotions quiet goes, I believe that others should refrain from getting others hopes up about information ("Breaking News, Standby"). Both of these 'different' issues are not separated and merely irradicated, nor are any other perceived issues when it comes to the worldly issues of child abuse. Its always going to be a sensitive issue no matter how one puts it. And noone is perfect. Although I really don't think that GW looks like a skinny crack whore like she says she does, some people have a worse image of themselves than others, we can all can do something to push along the efforts of these ethics we're discussing.
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On 2004-08-15 13:36:00, animals all of us wrote:
Although I really don't think that GW looks like a skinny crack whore like she says she does, some people have a worse image of themselves than others,
LOL! Thanks very much.
"The Libertarian Party is a coalition of those who hold dear the economic freedoms championed by conservatives, yet abandoned by Republicans, and the civil freedoms championed by liberals, yet abandoned by Democrats."
--Rick Root
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On 2004-08-15 13:05:00, GregFL wrote:
Free speech is good, even obnoxious free speech. However when you say it you own it and frankly many of the things said around here are childish, without crediblity, and/or just plain idiotic.
Buddy, you always get right down to the salient core of things.
"when you say it you own"
There are two sides to this. One, you cover very well, the personal side. Like it or not, accept it or not, doesn't matter, we all build reputations for ourselves. More like we all provide the raw material w/ which others construct our reputations for us. The process is somewhat out of our control, but not entirely.
Some of the more hostile, inflamatory stuff that goes on here, I wish it wouldn't. I hate to see ppl hurt each other's feelings, get all paranoid and angry, etc., especially when the cause for all the angst turns out to be untrue. As a friend, or even just as a fellow Earthling, I'd suggest that no one should ever bother getting worked up and unhappy over what you think might be someone else's motives for doing somthing. You just can't know that, ya know? Or, to be a little more sardonic and cliche, never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by ignorance.
But if it happens, it happens, I can't tell people what to do or how to think. Not only would it be futile for me to try, but often times I'm wrong anyway. Hell, probably at least half of my incentive for hosting these forums is to learn something. And you never learn anything by shutting people down or controling the discussion.
There's another side to it, though. And, much as it FUCKS up my weekend, I have to think about it just lately. That's the legal side.
While I'm not responsible for what people say here as hosting provider, I am responsible as a citizen and responsible human being if I wittness an actual crime. So whoever's suggesting murder, encouraging suicide or making other violent threats, I want you to understand that you're really not all that anonymous. I'm not in any great hurry to make a federal case out of any of this. Frankly, I think it's just bullshit intended to start a brawl, piss people off, divert attention or some other reason that's entirely your own business. But understand that if I'm presented w/ a subpoena or other legally compelling document, I will certainly turn over requested logging info. This has nothing to do w/ the policy I set for the forums; it's not just a good idea, it's the law.
Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves. When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched to everything else in the Universe. -- My First Summer in the Sierra , 1911, page 110.
John Muir
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Right Ginger, and do these people really truly think they are anon to the moderators? Gawd how naive can someone be.
And I agree with you about the guy posting threats. It reminds me of a guy one day, driving real fast behind me in a huge cadillac. He kept honking and flipping me off, pulling up and yelling "i'm gonna kick your ass". I did my best to ignore him but truth be told he irritated me. We soon were seperated by traffic but By happenstance we ended up both parking near each other in the mall, he got out and shedded with the relative anonomity of his car, his grandeour faded and he turned out to be a short, skinny balding sissy-man. I said nothing but shook my head in disbelief as he sheepishly walked by me, eyes diverted down, shoulders drawn in...
This forum is like that big cadillac..you think it provides you protection but it does not. You are only anonymous by the grace of the administrator here. It is a privilidge granted to encourage the free flow of ideas. If you are ashamed to say something under your screen name,you really shouldn't say it anon. There are times when saying something anon is appropriate, but threats and insultive degrading comments said anon is just the tool of a coward.
[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-08-15 21:03 ]
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Well said, G.
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Thank you ::cheers::
I am sick unto death of obscure English towns that exist seemingly for the sole accommodation of these so-called limerick writers -- and even sicker of their residents, all of whom suffer from physical deformities and spend their time dismembering relatives at fancy dress balls.
--Editor of the Limerick Times
(Limerick, Ireland)
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The right to anonymous speech is one of the cornerstones of freedom. Unfortunately, legal protection for this is quickly eroding. The act of obtaining identity information through the use of subpoenas can be, and is often abused. Also, quite a few ISP's and web site administrators are overly cooperative, and will give up information when they are not legally required to do so. EFF has some info on a few such cases. http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Anonymity/ (http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Anonymity/)
With a little effort, you can increase your anonymitiy significantly. Using anonymizing proxies and/or anonymous remailers can put another layer of protection between you and the Police State, or those who cooperate with them. This site is a good starting point to learn how to be truly anonymous: http://www.stayinvisible.com/index.pl (http://www.stayinvisible.com/index.pl)
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I agree with you. So far, I've never been succesfully compelled to give over logging info. And the info I have on the posts we're talking about wouldn't do anyone much good w/o some serious intel muscle anyway because they do use a foreign proxy.
But what I'm talking about here is credible death threats. Not just the garden variety "Yeah? Well come to Chitown and say that to my face!" kind of trolls. I'm talking about months long rants making a case to kill someone, culminating in direct instructions to do so.
If whoever's doing that is just kidding or blowing off steam, I want them to know that it's getting unfunny. People are getting scared and they should drop it before it gets to be, quite litterally, a federal case.
If they're not kidding, then they are probably kidding themselves if they think they'll get away with something. It's out of my hands at a certain point. I have yet to find out firsthand where that point lies and really am not eager to go there.
That's all.In all history, there is no instance of a country having benefited from prolonged warfare. Only one who knows the disastrous effects of a long war can realize the supreme importance of rapidity in bringing it to a close. It is only one who is thoroughly acquainted with the evils of war who can thoroughly understand the profitable way of carrying it on.
--Sun Tzu (author of The Art of War
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How do you know it hasn't already crossed the line? What makes you think you would even know if they were investigating the death threats? It's not a civil matter. They really don't *need* your permission to look at your logs, or monitor your traffic, or anyone else's for that matter.
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FUCK
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TimeBomb, this is very, very true. Just one more reason to remind ppl to think about what they're saying. The modern day enabling act probably will not stand a decent constitutional challenge. But a decent challenge has to be based on a case where the defendant is clearly in the right.
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves
--Ronald Reagan
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I was gonna post something or whatever, but there is nothing to say.
I don't find anyone here guiltless.
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This forum is like that big cadillac..you think it provides you protection but it does not. You are only anonymous by the grace of the administrator here. It is a privilidge granted to encourage the free flow of ideas. If you are ashamed to say something under your screen name,you really shouldn't say it anon. There are times when saying something anon is appropriate, but threats and insultive degrading comments said anon is just the tool of a coward.
Very well said, Greg.
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I smell trolls ...
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On 2004-08-17 00:03:00, animals all of us wrote:
"I smell trolls ...
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Well, they do smell a lot like animals.
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smells more like partially sentient beings than wild animals, perhaps its the smoke from a ticking bomb about ready to blow a dud. In the meantime, stop feeding the trolls.
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Animals, you know what they say about farts...the one who calls it...
Being sleepy can impair someone's ability to do thier job. People
can sleep at home and come to the job with sleepiness still in their system. The sleepiness can still be there long after the employee has slept. When someone is found to be sleepy on the job, they can claim that they went to sleep the night before. The only solution to this problem is to ban employees from sleeping.
--Arthur Slabosky
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im just bored and have access to free or cheap computers thats the only reason i regularly check this site however i have been personaly wronged by some of the other users here and the threats are quite real
when i see you i will do great bodily harm to you and the only reason you might be scared is because you have a guilty concience for your abuse to me also i am quite small and my shoulders are drawn in but i dont drive a big car that will not stop me from getting at you you know who iam so you should just call the police and give them my name even if you give them the wrong name they will still investigate you can give them the names of all the people you fear i bet thats a very long list because i am not the only person you have abused
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What is worse?
People who post "anon" threats here or people like Mr Bradbury who stalk people in their homes and break in to private facilities to steal paperwork and files that do not belong to them.When the evil Straight Inc staff have your files then nobody will see them,but when Mr Bradbury has possession of your stolen private files then just about anybody can get their hands on your private past.Bradbury could even blackmail you using your dodgy drug history past ang get you fired from your job or get your wife to leave you and take the kids with her>I doubt Mr Sembler would ever do anything like that with your private files.
I would bet that the authorities are taking a much closer look at the people who maintain this website rather that the crazies who post anon threats here.
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Last time I checked...my "private" past consisted of abuse, neglect, emotional trauma and a host of other insidious treatment. By all means, I would LOVE for the rest of the world to learn of my "private" past.
I could give two shits about what Sembler would do with my "private" files. However I could give 10 shits about what Sembler has already taken part in with regards to my "private" past.
I love your attitude Anon....Let the devil keep it to himself so we can all go on through life maintaing our good credit rating. Nevermind about those kids now being abused, as long as my "private" file remains private....I can still have a bitchin Beacon Score.
Coward.
Bigot: One fanatically devoted to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and intolerant of those who differ.
Webster's
[ This Message was edited by: Carmel on 2004-08-19 08:03 ][ This Message was edited by: Carmel on 2004-08-19 08:04 ]
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Wow! That sounds like more of an incentive than simple boredom.
Are you saying that Richard blackmailed somebody w/ their records? You, maybe?
Want to know what the Semblers would do w/ our records? Ask Radley Balko. Couple of years ago Radley interviewed Sammie Monroe for a story on Straight. It ran on foxnews.com's front page just prior to the conference that year. http://www.theagitator.com/straightfox.php (http://www.theagitator.com/straightfox.php)
Word is that someone (possibly Calvina or Betty?) called up Fox saying they had Sammie's file from Straight and could prove by it that what she told Radley was innacurate. She and I both asked, yet again, for this person claiming to have possession of our records to please send them along to us, their rightful owners. Never heard a word back from them.
Frankly, I think the person was 100% full of shit. I don't think the records exist any more. I think they were either destroyed or simply tossed in the dumpster.
But who knows and who cares? Frankly, I wouldn't want to work for and certainly wouldn't stay married to anyone who would believe the kind of bullshit one might find in a file written by peer staff at Straight, Inc. Would you?
What are politicians going to tell people when the Constitution is gone and we still have a drug problem?
--William Simpson
_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Seed sibling `71 - `80
Straight South (Sarasota, FL)
10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.
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Go on with yourself Gigner!!! Tell 'em Carmel. Right on! Right on! Right on!
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On 2004-08-19 00:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
"What is worse?
People who post "anon" threats here or people like Mr Bradbury who stalk people in their homes and break in to private facilities to steal paperwork and files that do not belong to them.When the evil Straight Inc staff have your files then nobody will see them,but when Mr Bradbury has possession of your stolen private files then just about anybody can get their hands on your private past.Bradbury could even blackmail you using your dodgy drug history past ang get you fired from your job or get your wife to leave you and take the kids with her>I doubt Mr Sembler would ever do anything like that with your private files.
I would bet that the authorities are taking a much closer look at the people who maintain this website rather that the crazies who post anon threats here."
Let me get this straight:
Richard Bradbury is holding on to a bunch of files in order to blackmail people, get them fired and/or divorced.
Just answer this:
WHY???
Answer another question: If the above is true, and he found the files in Sembler's trash, (the fact is Sembler's trash was picked through, not his home) how can you make such a statement about Sembler? Is Bradbury even wrong?
Why can the cops pick through your trash without a warrant? Extra credit if you can come up with the appropriate Florida Statute!
Oh... another one... Ginger and Greg (and anyone else I've missed) are worth more of a closer look than crazies posting death threats?
Explain that one !!!!
Oh -- keep it up! This is the best laugh I had all day!
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
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On 2004-08-19 00:30:00, Anonymous wrote:
I would bet that the authorities are taking a much closer look at the people who maintain this website rather that the crazies who post anon threats here.
Is that because they already know all about you, right down to your favorite flavor of ice cream to go w/ your birthday cake? And, of course, they know you're not a SP?Speak gently! 't is a little thing Dropp'd in the heart's deep well; The good, the joy, that it may bring Eternity shall tell.
-- G. W. Langford: Speak gently.
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I read here that some people are concerned about abusive threatening posts.
I comment that you can look at it both ways.
I have no idea what Sembler or Bradbury would do with your personal files.
I would suggest that you look out for yourself and not be trusting anyone with them.
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Problem is...its not about who I would trust with them, thats a luxury no one here has. Give me a person who has possesion of their file, and I will give you Jesus live and in person.
Trust is a state of being that went out the door at the moment of our intakes.
Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.
--Julius Caesar
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You were so right Carmel. Looks you were the one who called it first. And you know what they say about the one who called it first; ...
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On 2004-08-19 21:38:00, Carmel wrote:
"Problem is...its not about who I would trust with them, thats a luxury no one here has. Give me a person who has possesion of their file, and I will give you Jesus live and in person.
Trust is a state of being that went out the door at the moment of our intakes.
Beware the leader who bangs the drums of war in order to whip the citizenry into a patriotic fervor, for patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it narrows the mind. And when the drums of war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has closed, the leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the citizenry, infused with fear and blinded by patriotism, will offer up all of their rights unto the leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar.
--Julius Caesar
"
I think that is the same point the other anon poster was getting at. We really don't know who would do what with information. Then take into account that most of us here aren't the most trusting people and you have the beginnings for a recipe of mistrust for everyone, even the people who seem to want to help.
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koo koo
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On 2004-08-20 09:33:00, animals all of us wrote:
"koo koo"
Well of course you think that, I didn't agree with you. My only point in replying is to say contrary to what you may think there is more than one way to view the world.
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koo koo
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Speaking of trolls....
The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.
--H.L. Mencken
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Bradbury burglized the Straight office in ofder to take "files".Maybe he could have lost my files whilst he was eluding the police,preventing me from ever seeing or having my files.
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whatever. Tick Tick Tick; that is the clock ticking toward the time the Sembler house of cards will be coming down. Heh, Heh. You can say what you want about RicahrdB, but he has you all by the fucking balls, and you know it. See you in court Mel and Betty.
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On 2004-08-20 18:49:00, Carmel wrote:
"Speaking of trolls....The notion that a radical is one who hates his country is naive and usually idiotic. He is, more likely, one who likes his country more than the rest of us, and is thus more disturbed than the rest of us when he sees it debauched. He is not a bad citizen turning to crime; he is a good citizen driven to despair.
--H.L. Mencken
"
I'm a troll b/c you disagree with me? Ok so your incredibly egotistical. What's the point of name calling? I only posted a different opinion sorry to intrude on the parade. If you all just want to sit around and agree with each other have at it.
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"Ok so your incredibly egotistical. What's the point of name calling?"
Indeed, Anon. Insert glass house here.
And by the way, I was referring to Animal's "kookooing" when I spoke of Trolls. Being that it was Animals that cried Troll to begin with, and then so very adeptly began to resemble one.
Chill out.
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-- Robert Heinlein
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Carmel[ This Message was edited by: animals all of us on 2004-08-23 21:29 ]
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Yes?
There are not enough jails, not enough policemen, not enough courts to enforce a law not supported by the people.
-- HUBERT H. HUMPHREY, speech (1965)
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nothing.
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On 2004-08-15 20:56:00, GregFL wrote:
"Right Ginger, and do these people really truly think they are anon to the moderators? Gawd how naive can someone be.
And I agree with you about the guy posting threats. It reminds me of a guy one day, driving real fast behind me in a huge cadillac. He kept honking and flipping me off, pulling up and yelling "i'm gonna kick your ass". I did my best to ignore him but truth be told he irritated me. We soon were seperated by traffic but By happenstance we ended up both parking near each other in the mall, he got out and shedded with the relative anonomity of his car, his grandeour faded and he turned out to be a short, skinny balding sissy-man. I said nothing but shook my head in disbelief as he sheepishly walked by me, eyes diverted down, shoulders drawn in...
This forum is like that big cadillac..you think it provides you protection but it does not. You are only anonymous by the grace of the administrator here. It is a privilidge granted to encourage the free flow of ideas. If you are ashamed to say something under your screen name,you really shouldn't say it anon. There are times when saying something anon is appropriate, but threats and insultive degrading comments said anon is just the tool of a coward.
[ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2004-08-15 21:03 ]"
Not true ..I (therion, O.M,) have posted my full name ...adress...etc on here more than once. Alot of people on here know who and where I am and I say whatever the fuck I want.
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Sometimes the "little guy in the big car" has a big gun.There are many news reports of this kind of "road rage".Keep laughing at the "little guy".
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"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately attributed to ignorance."
Good quote, Ginger! Is that yours? Or someone else's?
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No. I can't remember exactly where I heard it, but I didn't come up w/ it either.
Commerce with all nations, alliance with none, should be our motto.
--Thomas Jefferson
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... now I have to know, and so I'm looking, and it's taking me to some cool ass places! Thanks!
Check it out!
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ned= ... ch+the+Web (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ned=us&q=quotes+%22never+attribute+to+malice%22+&btnmeta%3Dsearch%3Dsearch=Search+the+Web)
?Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule.?
Friedrich Nietzscheyou Momma is a big fat's ________
--Leroy Brown
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KillPickle
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[ This Message was edited by: animals all of us on 2004-09-09 20:32 ]
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why did Gin take out the part where I posted that she told me over the phone that you said Richard was fucked up and couldn't be trusted (etc..)
No fuckin' way, don't tell me that this forum is getting censored. :eek:
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why would someone have a private conversation with someone else discussing another person and then post the comments on a message site?
What does that say about the trustworthiness of said person? What exactly are you trying to accomplish? You trying to cause problems between Ginger and Rich? Trying to hurt Gingers credibility? Rich's? Using these bottom shelf low down sleezy tactics, anyone would be a fool to believe anything you say.
Some people around here are nothing but blatant assholes that cannot and should not be trusted. However posted that supposedly private conversation is the lowest of the low.
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On 2004-09-10 09:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
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why would someone have a private conversation with someone else discussing another person and then post the comments on a message site?
Because they are worthless druggie pieces of shit who have no gratitude for the Program and all it did for them! You see, if they had merely followed the rule "no talking behind backs", none of this would be an issue! You have only yourselves to blame, for following your sick, degenerate druggie wills!
There is hope, however--at the new improved, all-ages Straight, Inc. v2.0!
Love ya! Love yourself!
Have a seat.....
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On 2004-09-10 10:13:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
On 2004-09-10 09:48:00, Anonymous wrote:
"
why would someone have a private conversation with someone else discussing another person and then post the comments on a message site?
Because they are worthless druggie pieces of shit who have no gratitude for the Program and all it did for them! You see, if they had merely followed the rule "no talking behind backs", none of this would be an issue! You have only yourselves to blame, for following your sick, degenerate druggie wills!
There is hope, however--at the new improved, all-ages Straight, Inc. v2.0!
Love ya! Love yourself!
Have a seat....."
That was me, druggies....