Post by: Woof-a-Doof on January 06, 2006, 06:14:00 AM
I remember the entire group screaming/shouting "STRAIGHT IS GREAT, STRAIGHT IS GREAT, STRAIGHT IS GREAT". This happened at least once a day, and sometimes I remember it going on for what seemed like 10-15 minutes. We screamed it at the top of our lungs.
Of course there were some of us that inserted the words "STRAIGHT SUCKS" whilst bellowing out the sickening mantra.
After the memory i thought about it and I recall reading a book on meditation and the use of mantras. The author discouraged the use of mantras (many eastern sects use mantras exclusely...usually the mantra is privatly and individually given to an individual and it is thier own, not to be shared)this guys idea was that the mantra, rather than encouraging an expansion of understanding did just the opposite of it's intent. The repititious chanting closed off the free flowing thought, which the author of the book said brought no one closer to understanding or enlightenment.
Also, I thought about the surrounding buildings, buisnesses (sp)and the people they employed...Didn't they hear us? What did they think? Wasn't anyone curious about all the noise generated by the same kids who were lead into the building by thier belt loops?
The only time I recall being slightly amused by this group chant was when a Staff Member (Marnie Sykes, if I rember correctly)went down the rows of people and each of us had to scream a vowel. One person , one vowel. Then we all yelled that one vowel. The resulting sound was like that of a jungle....wierd. It only happened the one time that I can remember.
As my "anniversary" date nears (as it has many times before) I start giving more and more thought to that intake day and my time incarcerated. Lil things like this chanting thing just seem to consume my thoughts. And it's not like I can really discuss it with anyone, even those near and dear to me...why? Because they can't envision it, they can't begin to imagine it, others simple don't care to hear it.
Did this chanting thing happen in other buildings at other locations? Does anyone remember being sickened by it, I mean knowing that the words being screamed did not reflect the truth...Straight was not Great....Straight Sucked....Were we suppossed to actually believe the chant? Was the purpose of this scream/chant to get us motavated.....ugh...sickening
Post by: dragonfly on January 06, 2006, 07:54:00 AM
Post by: ex-prisoner on January 06, 2006, 08:54:00 AM
Mantra
Dalai Lama
Sanskrit Chanting
Buddha
OM Symbol
:roll:
Post by: ex-prisoner on January 06, 2006, 10:36:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-01-06 04:54:00, dragonfly wrote:
"Straight WAS like a monastery in a lot of ways.
...
Since the tactics came from the Chinese originally, this should not be surprising.
The intent of the Chinese monasteries was to provide a SAFE place for monks to let go of their delusions of self.
...
And to provide HEALTHY impetus to let go of those delusions. Those impetus work, and monks go happily about the day doing monkish things, for the purpose of monk hood.
...
The Chinese Communists saw the power in this and developed it's flip side, brainwashing.
And then of course, the CIA saw the power in this and our tax dollars funded the development of a powerful machine capable of changing the minds of teenage pot smokers.
Every aspect of straight has a counterpart that can be found in a Buddhist monastery. Behavioral counterparts of course, not ideological.
The chanting you describe is just one example of the monastic roots of straight. [ This Message was edited by: dragonfly on 2006-01-06 05:09 ]"
letting go of delusions of self sounds more ideological rather than behavioral. :cry: half of all indian children in those schools died.
i reckon the koreans didn't invent brainwashing either. it seems to be common knowledge among the colonizers of the world.
in my experience, gaining a sense of self as a teenager was part of finding my own way in the world instead of accepting unquestioned indoctrination into the values and the system i saw and was troubled by. my "druggie image" was a symbolic representation in the world, part of my voice that was questioning many things that were taken for granted in this society. by denying me my own voice, literally and symbolically, straight denied me my philosophies and the outer creative expression of my visions and questions as a youth. isn't that the light of the world? the way of the artist and visionary? to interact with the world from the center of your being? i mean, that's integrity, as i see it. the root of power is acting with integrity.
so what would you say to the native americans, that somehow that forced reeducation was based on worthy values or ideologies of monasticism? that it had anything valuable to teach them? let's not get too abstract. the colonizers knew that in order to subjugate them they had to kill the indian. nothing was gained, everything was lost.
Post by: Anonymous on January 06, 2006, 11:06:00 AM
-Daniel Higgs
Post by: dragonfly on January 06, 2006, 11:28:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on January 06, 2006, 04:24:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-06 05:54:00, ex-prisoner wrote:
"
Ads by Google
Mantra
Dalai Lama
Sanskrit Chanting
Buddha
OM Symbol
:wave:
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 06, 2006, 05:53:00 PM
The outcome of the use of the tool is determined by tool user.
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 06, 2006, 06:25:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 06, 2006, 06:45:00 PM
They came down on us while they could, before we had any way to defend ourselves , let alone become socially or politically aggressive.
Post by: Anonymous on January 06, 2006, 07:07:00 PM
We were young and strong and willful and still lookin' at the depth and current of the crossin'
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 06, 2006, 07:28:00 PM
The authority already on the other side fears us(out of their own ego consciousness) so they want to sabotage our crossing. They can't prevent us from navigating the stream(because we see the stars) but they are adept at germinating confusion and convincing us of our own desires, and so layin the illusion that even though we have now crossed the stream we need to spend our energy carryin' the raft on our heads as we walk across the dry land!!
Throw the raft down!! And mourn it if you need. But it is a tool bein' used against you if you know you have already crossed the stream.
Fuck!! You know what I mean...
Post by: Anonymous on January 06, 2006, 08:57:00 PM
Post by: dragonfly on January 07, 2006, 06:03:00 PM
Post by: Woof-a-Doof on January 08, 2006, 11:23:00 AM
Although your stance is elloquently stated, I am still digesting much of it. I am not convinced that I will be able to subcribe to your viewpoint entirely, however I concede that it has made an impression and I am now rexamining much of my thought on the subject of "forgiveness". Nuff said on that issue...for now anyhow.
In regard to this thread; I have never associated the Straight experience to that of monastic life. I was kinda shocked when I read your post. As I said, I never connected the dots (not that they are connected now) of the similarities tween the monistaries (sp) and Straight. Probably the reason your post struck such a nerve is because I have always thought of myself as one fitted for monastic life.
In one of Pirates recent post he discussed leaving everything behind and hitting the road in an effort to "find" himself. I also did that about 9 years ago. About 4 years prior to this quest I had been to Crestone Colorado (population about 600). Here at the foot hills was a string of monastic communities, Zen Buddihist, Taoist Temples and other eastern sects as well as more western religions, sisterhoods of catholosism (sp)...I don't recall the name of the sisters.
As time went on, I felt complled to return, and so I eventually set off back to the mountains. My journey did not take me back to Colorado as I had intended, but I found myself in yet another monastary just outside of Atlanta. (Conyers Ga....Rockdale County...not really near Atlanta, but close). I was there for a total of 3 weeks.
Here is thier website, http://www.trappist.net/index.html (http://www.trappist.net/index.html) (trappist sounds a little odd huh)
It turned out that the monastary was a place for Priest/Monks of that particualr order and also for Jesuit Priests (whom I found particualry fascinating) to retreat. It also served as an infirmary for ancient priests.
I did not, (still don't) embrace thier belief's. I made no effort to conceal this fact, they made no effort to prosthelitize (sp) me either. I rather enjoyed bantering with the Jesuit's. They seemed just as inquisitive as I was, if not more. I was impressed with thier refusal to "believe" anything because they were expected to believe any particular thing. Just the opposite...they questioned everything, even thier faith..
I digress...
When ya mentioned the parellel between Monastary's and Straight...I, like another poster in this thread, would love to hear more about it. A book was mentioned by Ex-Prisoner..."the roots of brainwashing in monasteries?" I would be real interested in that book being my next read.
EP...also asked/said "why is self seen as bad and delusional? i think that's what straight stole and destroyed and that was real bad for us kids, in addition to all the other bad stuff they stole, destroyed and implanted in us."
"why is self seen as bad and delusional?"...I never really bought into the idea that I was fundementally "bad". I tend to think of it in terms of perminate or impermanate, when it comes to the "delusional" part of the question. I approached it thru a process of negation. ex: I am not my personality. I am not my hopes, I am not my aspirations, I am not my past...blah blah blah.
I have found in my experionce that if delusion is such a "bad" thing. Why is it that the dis-ilussionment (which is supposed to be a good thing) is experienced with such grief?
Straight introduced us to the self-inquiry experience via the way of force, intimidation and humiliation at an totally inappropriate age . Force, intimidation and humiliation are not appropriate in any learning situation that I can think of. It is truly horrible that it happened...and continues to happen.
I think self-inquiry is a normal endeavor for people in general to one extent or another. But it can't be forced. I have said it here before. They fucked with the poured cement before it cured! So in time came the desire to know that self we seem to be talking about I found alot of confusion, skepticisim and above all resistance. A natural experience in the human existance and has (again) been forever perverted.
I think Anon said it best here "We were'nt ready yet to give up our own identities and ego consciousness and delusions of self at the time." Eactly...as if I knew what my identity was! I was not a contemplative child upon my intake. I remember being asked what I saw for my future...foolishly I was honest. Because I (at that age) could not fathom a future, and so I answered by saying " I see a black hole". Once said, the tempo of the intake increased. My fate was sealed with those words.
Funny...never expected such indepth responce. Much more to it than I had priviously thought...like there is anything trivial about Straight Inc.
Apologies for rambling
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 08, 2006, 06:02:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 08, 2006, 06:04:00 PM
Post by: dragonfly on January 09, 2006, 01:10:00 PM
Post by: dragonfly on January 11, 2006, 08:59:00 AM
Post by: Anonymous on January 11, 2006, 03:03:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-06 13:24:00, Anonymous wrote:
A spoon full of sugar, helps the medicine go down, the medicine go down. "
And a spoonful of medicine can get your sugar to go down, too.
Post by: Woof-a-Doof on January 11, 2006, 08:13:00 PM
Yes, fucking with freshly poured concrete. At the age I went in (15) I was clueless. My home was on the beach which was the best playground I could have hoped for. I hadn't formed any opinions or focus on any idealogy/religion/pshycology/etc.
To follow the concrete analogy, the concrete had yet to be poured, although the mix had already begun. Now add unskilled mason wanna be's and trow um a trowel and a long 2x4. After the conrete cures, hardens, it will reflect the skills of the ones that handeled the concrete mix.
I dont see myself at the time, having basic knowledge that I could double-cross myself. I probably had about a nine word vocabulary at the time. (whoa, cool, what a rush, dude, got a light, etc). The words, self deception, or perhaps "Selling Out" were words I had heard but really had no idea of their depth and weight.
But with out having the words to know what I was doing, I also did what ever I could do to "GET OUT". I ran, copped out, whatever it was called later on....but I "SPLIT" as it was called back in the day. I was a "jerk" for a short time (didnt have the tenacity for it), finally I resigned to the idea/notion of having to conform. That was the deepest cut, but it was seen (re-enforced by parents/staff) as the greatest accomplishment. And I could not see and end to the insainity, truely hopeless. I had no street sense and no survival skills, this was also hammered into the forefront of my conciousness, I think as a way to further intimidate and berate me into submission and conformity.
I had to pull off the greatest acting of my life, and sincerity was one of the top ten facets of my...um, character. So yeah I think I understand...took me along time to realize that I had to seriously sit down and seperate the true (perminate) and false (imperminate). So many things were bastardized and twisted...needlessly.
I am seeing alot of sober/straight stories and programs getting thier 15 minutes of fame and I know there is a huge market for these facilities, the parents looking to off thier kids to camp...."you fix um....dont care what ya do....you fix um". I think about the decsion the people make and I KNOW from personal experience of what the outcome could very well be, buy my direct experience and those who had same/similiar experience.
Sorry for the rant, the anniversary of my first intake is rapidly approaching. Every year I recognise the date and the days before it. The day is usually uneventfull...no flowers or cards. I was unaware of this forum last year, so this year seems a lil more intense....guess thats normal.
Thinking a bit more about the "acting" thing...I mentioned that I thought I had the personality that would do well in a monastic setting, more asetic monk...the ones ya find in the deep indian jungles, covered with ash...That might be a bit extreme, but god how I love my home life...got my girl and two maine coon cats. If could just be a mere bit of what they think of me I would consider that my greatest achievement!
Puff Puff Pass
Post by: dragonfly on January 12, 2006, 07:32:00 AM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 12, 2006, 12:54:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 12, 2006, 01:10:00 PM
It's like authority is claimin' to teach you how to ride a bike, but never lets you take off the trainin' wheels, all the while tellin' you you're doin' it. But you are never allowed to grow into your true potential as a human being because authority is always stuntin' your growth and keepin' you from ridin' very far. We become dependent on the trainin' wheels and they become a symbol of security.
Who knows where we might ride but authority is afraid they will lose control of you. You think you're havin' fun and livin' well but you are truly a slave. The trainin' wheels might as well be chains.
Authority is an illusion.
Post by: Dr Fucktard on January 12, 2006, 01:25:00 PM
Quote
Authority is an illusion.
It's no illusion at SIBS, boy...
Love ya! :wave:
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 12, 2006, 01:30:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 12, 2006, 01:49:00 PM
Post by: dragonfly on January 12, 2006, 06:56:00 PM
Post by: Woof-a-Doof on January 12, 2006, 07:26:00 PM
I had/have respect for the great teachings. And I have admiration for those that can devote thier lives to one thing. There is/was a significant part of me that yearned to be a part of something...something I believed in. It was not enuff for me to have a belief and cherish it, I wanted to be a part of a group that believed as I do.
Problem with this desire was that for me it was, unrealistic. I would be able to stomach 99% of a teaching. The remaining 1% I would stand fast and not budge no matter how much it was explained to me how I was "wrong". Right away I was seen as difficult....oh my favorite one..."We will pray for you"...Clearly I was not in the right place. I have no animosity towards these groups of people.
These folks wanted to "praise", "worship" and "honor" the God of thier affections. I wanted more. I wanted to see the very face of "that" which I sought. That very idea put me at odds with many people right away. I was raised down here in the bible belt and have been hit with the buckle from a very young age and so am pretty familiar with the resistance I face when wanting to become a "part of".
I realized at some point that this (for lack of a better term) "search" could not be trivialized. That the sacred texts were not to be catigorized (sp), rationalized, disected and discussed, arqued and analized (shityy speeling tonight...sorry). The effort I was extending was meant to see the eyes of "that" which I hold as holy. That effort was all to often cheapened by experiencing it with other people.
In the truest sense of the word, it is private. Not because it's "nunya damn bizness", but more so because it is beyond that which can be spoken. I have said before, that words are pointers, in that they generally point us to something...an object or a thought. So words do nothing more really than murk up the waters. My search then is now tween me and "that" which I hold dear. Who could teach me that? Who could also show me via example of what I wanted to reach? No one.
Our friend Pirate is all to fond of saying "Fuck the institutions" and my favorite, "Fuck Authority"...that always brings a smile to my face. It's refreshing to witness such passion and tenacity! And the realy cool thing is that he speaks the truth. Or perhaps, maybe, he speaks words that "point" to the truth. For him it is no longer a subject of debate. He has experienced the lyrics, "The mighty God is a Living Man." Rather than "believing", he has experienced that "All Authority is False"
In the 60's there was a popular phrase that said, "Question Authority". Of course this phrase was "pointed" at the establishment...the man. Yet the phrase has ancient roots, going back before the Christian era. I am thinking it was Cicero who said it and I could very well be wrong, but it was said in the context of the "self" as being the ultimate authority and that that should be questioned. Heard that back in Sociology 101...just another random memory.
Pirate, ya said "You think you're havin' fun and livin' well but you are truly a slave. The trainin' wheels might as well be chains." In prison one only thinks of being free, how to escape and ta fill the mind with plans of being out . Life is a prison to. During our stay in this life-prison we entertain ceratin things that make the time go by. Some of these things are poor choices for entertainment, others are phenominal forms of entertainment. But it's just entertainment man.
Why do we need entertainment? Why do we have a need to believe or not to believe? From the earliest of times we have had a "belief" in something more powerful, magical or greater than ourselves, and we have had a substance to change the way we feel. (Also from Sociology 101) I spoke with a woman I respected about this once and she replied "I am going to answer with biggest question in psychology.....So?"
I heard a truth, I know I did...she brought me to silence.
PPP
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 12, 2006, 10:18:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-12 15:56:00, dragonfly wrote:
"I do agree Pirate, but for the sake of conversation, lets wonder if it's possible to take advantage of an institutional "spiritual" practice, that is, can we enjoy the support of a group of people with out identifying with them. This seems like true freedom, to come and go as we please, not to simply dismiss, but to be free and benefit at the same time, to be unattached but there.
If it is a reaction, it is dictated by something other than our own inclinations and inertia.
"
... ::alieneyesa:: :silly: ...
Post by: Antigen on January 13, 2006, 01:01:00 AM
To say the drug war is a failure is like saying the Hindenburg was short a few fire extinguishers.
Carl Hiassen
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 13, 2006, 03:59:00 PM
Sometimes though, as a prisoner, you just accept where you are and time has no meaning and you are way more free than anywhere else, like no-one even wants your meditations anymore. I mean I felt that way a few times when I was locked up. It's almost like when the body is in jail the mind ranges freer than ever, as a prisoner I was totally relaxed. I had my own cell to think in by myself. But I wasn't free, I was a prisoner of Monmouth County, N.J. and Fairfax County, VA and just thinkin' in a freer way, because I had nothin left to do and nothin' to distract me and plenty of time completely to myself in my monastic cell.
I had this idea to throw a set of childrens' trainin' wheels into some wet cement. ::hatter:: ::dove::
Trip. "P"
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2006, 04:35:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-13 12:59:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
"Nice post Woof-a-Doof.
Sometimes though, as a prisoner, you just accept where you are and time has no meaning and you are way more free than anywhere else, like no-one even wants your meditations anymore. I mean I felt that way a few times when I was locked up. It's almost like when the body is in jail the mind ranges freer than ever, as a prisoner I was totally relaxed. I had my own cell to think in by myself. But I wasn't free, I was a prisoner of Monmouth County, N.J. and Fairfax County, VA and just thinkin' in a freer way, because I had nothin left to do and nothin' to distract me and plenty of time completely to myself in my monastic cell.
I had this idea to throw a set of childrens' trainin' wheels into some wet cement. ::hatter:: ::dove::
Trip. "P"
"
I recently ran across an old thread in which people debated which was worse, prison or Straight. You may have posted there. Since you are a person with experience in both settings, I'm curious to know your take on this issue.
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 13, 2006, 04:40:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-06 07:36:00, ex-prisoner wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-01-06 04:54:00, dragonfly wrote:
"Straight WAS like a monastery in a lot of ways.
...
Since the tactics came from the Chinese originally, this should not be surprising.
The intent of the Chinese monasteries was to provide a SAFE place for monks to let go of their delusions of self.
...
And to provide HEALTHY impetus to let go of those delusions. Those impetus work, and monks go happily about the day doing monkish things, for the purpose of monk hood.
...
The Chinese Communists saw the power in this and developed it's flip side, brainwashing.
And then of course, the CIA saw the power in this and our tax dollars funded the development of a powerful machine capable of changing the minds of teenage pot smokers.
Every aspect of straight has a counterpart that can be found in a Buddhist monastery. Behavioral counterparts of course, not ideological.
The chanting you describe is just one example of the monastic roots of straight. [ This Message was edited by: dragonfly on 2006-01-06 05:09 ]"
letting go of delusions of self sounds more ideological rather than behavioral. ::bandit:: ::hatter:: ::dove:: [ This Message was edited by: starry-eyed pirate on 2006-01-13 14:30 ]
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 13, 2006, 05:53:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-13 13:35:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-01-13 12:59:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
"Nice post Woof-a-Doof.
Sometimes though, as a prisoner, you just accept where you are and time has no meaning and you are way more free than anywhere else, like no-one even wants your meditations anymore. I mean I felt that way a few times when I was locked up. It's almost like when the body is in jail the mind ranges freer than ever, as a prisoner I was totally relaxed. I had my own cell to think in by myself. But I wasn't free, I was a prisoner of Monmouth County, N.J. and Fairfax County, VA and just thinkin' in a freer way, because I had nothin left to do and nothin' to distract me and plenty of time completely to myself in my monastic cell.
I had this idea to throw a set of childrens' trainin' wheels into some wet cement. ::hatter:: ::dove::
Trip. "P"
"
I recently ran across an old thread in which people debated which was worse, prison or Straight. You may have posted there. Since you are a person with experience in both settings, I'm curious to know your take on this issue.
"
I've never done time in the adult system so I can't really speak to that. All my time was served in the juvenile system...well besides that one drunken night where I stood in the middle of the road and made traffic go around me and when the cops rolled up to my knee caps and wanted my name I tol' em it was Jesus Christ... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Yeah I spent the night in jail that night, but that was no big deal. Although I got a heck of a story about that whole night but I can only tell it in person under certain conditions, see ??
Still, I have been a prisoner in 2 state correctional systems and I did plenty of time in $tr8. It wasn't like I was doin' serious time with 35 year old bad-ass muther fuckin' killers, although I was in with juvenile bad-ass killers. My total time in these 2 juvenile systems combined was all of about a month. There are people far more qualified than I to answer your question, which is why I never posted on that thread.
I personally regret having chosen $tr8 over prison/jail(and I did have a choice, as soon as I turned 18 I could 'a' signed myself out and gone and served my year) I don't think prison/jail is near the mind-fuck that $tr8 was, at least not back in 1986, although I've heard that, that is changin'. Of course a lot depends on the circumstances too, like where ya gotta serve your time and how long ya gotto do.
(This one's for my bro Woof-a-Doof :lol: )FUCK AUTHORITY. FUCK $TR8. FUCK ALL THE INSTITUTIONS. GOD IS IN YOU.
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2006, 06:02:00 PM
Quote
I've never done time in the adult system so I can't really speak to that. All my time was served in the juvenile system...well besides that one drunken night where I stood in the middle of the road and made traffic go around me and when the cops rolled up to my knee caps and wanted my name I tol' em it was Jesus Christ... :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
That's funny! I know a guy who did a similar thing in Baltimore city several years ago...except he was running for mayor..in a ripped-up Armani suit.. :lol:
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 13, 2006, 06:18:00 PM
...Ohh...I see,... the same thing except he was runnin for "mayor" and I was "Jesus Christ" :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:. Hysterical
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 13, 2006, 06:27:00 PM
Om-Shanti. :skull: :skull: :skull:
Post by: Anonymous on January 13, 2006, 06:35:00 PM
Quote
I personally regret having chosen $tr8 over prison/jail. I don't think prison/jail is near the mind-fuck that $tr8 was, at least not back in 1986, although I've heard that, that is changin'.
The Straight or prison question is a debate worth reviving. There are no easy answers because the degree of abuse in the prison system varies from place to place, and opinions and tolerance levels vary from person to person. Many survivors without the experience of both worlds will undoubtedly declare that prison is the better option, which is telling. In any case, the debate can only highlight the severity of abuse in Straight because its worst tactics are at least on par with those of the prison system.
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 13, 2006, 06:57:00 PM
Post by: dragonfly on January 13, 2006, 07:15:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 13, 2006, 07:22:00 PM
In the meantime I am entertained by your post and will see if I can figure it out.
Post by: dragonfly on January 13, 2006, 07:29:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 13, 2006, 07:31:00 PM
But perhaps if the very same questions were not attached to her...perhaps if some anon had asked ?? ...I don't know... Can you not address her questions without too much trouble... I wouldn't hassle ya so much except you know me and know that I truly want to know...
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 13, 2006, 07:35:00 PM
With great respect, Pirate
Post by: dragonfly on January 13, 2006, 07:35:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 13, 2006, 07:38:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 13, 2006, 07:42:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-06 07:36:00, ex-prisoner wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-01-06 04:54:00, dragonfly wrote:
"Straight WAS like a monastery in a lot of ways.
...
Since the tactics came from the Chinese originally, this should not be surprising.
The intent of the Chinese monasteries was to provide a SAFE place for monks to let go of their delusions of self.
...
And to provide HEALTHY impetus to let go of those delusions. Those impetus work, and monks go happily about the day doing monkish things, for the purpose of monk hood.
...
The Chinese Communists saw the power in this and developed it's flip side, brainwashing.
And then of course, the CIA saw the power in this and our tax dollars funded the development of a powerful machine capable of changing the minds of teenage pot smokers.
Every aspect of straight has a counterpart that can be found in a Buddhist monastery. Behavioral counterparts of course, not ideological.
The chanting you describe is just one example of the monastic roots of straight. [ This Message was edited by: dragonfly on 2006-01-06 05:09 ]"
letting go of delusions of self sounds more ideological rather than behavioral. :cry: half of all indian children in those schools died.
i reckon the koreans didn't invent brainwashing either. it seems to be common knowledge among the colonizers of the world.
in my experience, gaining a sense of self as a teenager was part of finding my own way in the world instead of accepting unquestioned indoctrination into the values and the system i saw and was troubled by. my "druggie image" was a symbolic representation in the world, part of my voice that was questioning many things that were taken for granted in this society. by denying me my own voice, literally and symbolically, straight denied me my philosophies and the outer creative expression of my visions and questions as a youth. isn't that the light of the world? the way of the artist and visionary? to interact with the world from the center of your being? i mean, that's integrity, as i see it. the root of power is acting with integrity.
so what would you say to the native americans, that somehow that forced reeducation was based on worthy values or ideologies of monasticism? that it had anything valuable to teach them? let's not get too abstract. the colonizers knew that in order to subjugate them they had to kill the indian. nothing was gained, everything was lost.
"
So you already answered these questions ?? Hmmm.. ??
Post by: dragonfly on January 13, 2006, 07:43:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 13, 2006, 07:45:00 PM
Woof-a-Doof: any comments ??
anyone else ??
Post by: dragonfly on January 13, 2006, 07:46:00 PM
Post by: dragonfly on January 13, 2006, 07:50:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 13, 2006, 07:51:00 PM
Post by: Antigen on January 13, 2006, 10:34:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-06 03:14:00, Woof-a-Doof wrote:
Did this chanting thing happen in other buildings at other locations? Does anyone remember being sickened by it, I mean knowing that the words being screamed did not reflect the truth...Straight was not Great....Straight Sucked....Were we suppossed to actually believe the chant? Was the purpose of this scream/chant to get us motavated.....ugh...sickening
STRAIGHT IS SHIT!
STRAIGHT IS SHIT!
STRAIGHT IS SHIT!
Yup, shaw nuff happened just like that in Sarasota. I would imagine it did in the Seed too. You could ask them.
Life is like a shit sandwich; the more bread you got, the less shit you gotta eat.
--Anonymous
Post by: Woof-a-Doof on January 14, 2006, 08:27:00 AM
Quote
On 2006-01-06 04:54:00, dragonfly wrote:
And then of course, the CIA saw the power in this and our tax dollars funded the development of a powerful machine capable of changing the minds of teenage pot smokers.
"Capable of changing the minds of teenage pot smokers"
And how well did that work? Was it really "capable"...I mean after all I am about to have a saturday morning wake-n-bake. They may have fucked with my mind and spirit abit, but they NEVER changed my mind.
Will PUFF PUFF and be back later with the PASS!
Post by: Woof-a-Doof on January 15, 2006, 09:21:00 AM
I agree with Dragonfly some probably are finding this post "tedious". Probably the same amount of folkz are finding it to be "abstract". Personally I find it rather funny that we ran with a topic and went into such a phliosophic direction that many are probably just flat out confused and possibly bored by the entire notion we have been runnng with. We all have or own interests, no? (BTW, Antigen, thanks for sticking to the topic and answering the questions that initiated this thread)
I think it is clear where my interests run. I think we were lied to, I think many things were bastardized, perverted and really really twisted. The end result? A group full of people that by default are understandably contemptious to any of the ancient texts, the monastic ways, and organized religions to such a degree that little if any effort is made in those directions.
It seems easier to argue than to delve into the essence of what has been discussed thru out this post. I mean after all, how many times have we searched and found bullshit? How long can we yearn for something and be disapointed at every at almost every turn. Doesn't it seem easier to be angry, and bitter towards many of the things written in this post? And yet there are some of us that make every effort to pry into that which made us sooo angry.
The nature of the discussion, the reflections of a bullshit program, the memories of pain & humiliation is alot to examine...let alone to discuss it in terms such that all can follow is a formitable task and I do not think it can be accomplished in one thread. I think with our shared experience this endeavor will be monumnetal at best. As a sub-culture of Survivors, POW's, Veterans, we (I think) certainly have our work cut out for us. Yet on a more idividual level I think we have a better chance at obtaining some peace. My quest was an individual one. Disapointment after disapointment came until I realized that this was a solitary venture. People by default will disapoint, organized religions and yes, even the monastaries will disapoint. When I gave up on people, when I gave up on groups of people and focused on that which I sought, I found that peace was not only possible but inevitable.
From time to time you all will witness my anger and rage...then again you will hear of a presence of peace that I have found. You will hear me go on about perminance and imperminace (sp...you would think that after all this talk about the damn words I could at least commit it's proper spelling to memory). Anger and rage in my experience are imperminate experiences...it doesnt last. Yet the peace I speak about is indeed perminate. If I can use an analogy; Think of a bell...like a bell in a tower or even a telephone. The bell by it's design will ring out. Yet by the bells nature, it is silent. Between every ringing of the bell it is followed by silence and it will remain silent untill it is struck again. So, which is perminate? Anger and Rage will make my bell ring, so to speak. Yet once it subsides I return to the very same silence I was at before the ringing (Anger/Rage) takes place. Pirate, you recall once I told you that you will not be denied in your search? Here is how I can further illustrate how I can say that with the absolute confidence. Ya can't be denied in your search/pursuit of peace. Peace is not only possible but inevitable.
In re-reading this reply/response it occured to me that I should have followed my dads advice upon entering college. I should have majored in philosophy and minored in broadcasting, I could then think out loud and get paid for it. I mentioned this to my girl who was also reading this, and she said, "Thats true, sounds like a "Final Thought" on the Jerry Springer Show." Hmmmm Maybe it's time to close this thread...
Puh-ass
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 15, 2006, 11:31:00 AM
Post by: Antigen on January 15, 2006, 03:48:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-15 08:31:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
" ::bandit:: ::dove:: "
I think so too. "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds."--Emerson
Back to the roots of the Program. Well, they are many and varied. I don't think the Program looks so much like a grand conspiracy as it resembles yet another instance of history rhyming; of our society taking on aspects of the dragon we set out to slay.
There is no doubt in my mind that CIA intentionally set out to master and apply the methods used to mindfuck American POWs held in Korean camps. That's pretty well documented these days. And there's no doubt in my mind that the Program bears far more similarity to these methods than could be explained by mere conincidence. That they went to the trouble to reincorporate under the name Straight after the Seed showed up in that federal report, well what does that tell you? And then getting a video endorsement by our ex CIA head president in front of the Presidential seal? Come on, wtf do you think that was all about?
I mean, this stuff has been going down for all of human history. Cult leaders, shamen, priests and clerics have always had a propensity to lure the weak minded or be drawn to them and to sometimes abuse the considerable personal power invested in them by their believers. The only difference between freelance gurus and what we refer to as the Program or the industry is just that; it's an industry. It's organized under a corporate model, just like practically every other aspect of what used to be our private lives.
The government is much more interested in preserving the purity of its ideology than it is in allowing patients to get effective medicine.
-- Ethan B. Russo, neurologist at Western Montana Clinic
_________________
Drug war POW Straight, Sarasota
`80 - `82
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 15, 2006, 04:51:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 15, 2006, 04:54:00 PM
Oh yeah... I dig Emerson, one right on cat!!!
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 15, 2006, 05:12:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-15 06:21:00, Woof-a-Doof wrote:
"Pirate...I believe I answered ex-p's question here Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... =10#162582 (http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=13322&forum=7&start=10#162582)
I agree with Dragonfly some probably are finding this post "tedious". Probably the same amount of folkz are finding it to be "abstract". Personally I find it rather funny that we ran with a topic and went into such a phliosophic direction that many are probably just flat out confused and possibly bored by the entire notion we have been runnng with. We all have or own interests, no? (BTW, Antigen, thanks for sticking to the topic and answering the questions that initiated this thread)
I think it is clear where my interests run. I think we were lied to, I think many things were bastardized, perverted and really really twisted. The end result? A group full of people that by default are understandably contemptious to any of the ancient texts, the monastic ways, and organized religions to such a degree that little if any effort is made in those directions.
It seems easier to argue than to delve into the essence of what has been discussed thru out this post. I mean after all, how many times have we searched and found bullshit? How long can we yearn for something and be disapointed at every at almost every turn. Doesn't it seem easier to be angry, and bitter towards many of the things written in this post? And yet there are some of us that make every effort to pry into that which made us sooo angry.
The nature of the discussion, the reflections of a bullshit program, the memories of pain & humiliation is alot to examine...let alone to discuss it in terms such that all can follow is a formitable task and I do not think it can be accomplished in one thread. I think with our shared experience this endeavor will be monumnetal at best. As a sub-culture of Survivors, POW's, Veterans, we (I think) certainly have our work cut out for us. Yet on a more idividual level I think we have a better chance at obtaining some peace. My quest was an individual one. Disapointment after disapointment came until I realized that this was a solitary venture. People by default will disapoint, organized religions and yes, even the monastaries will disapoint. When I gave up on people, when I gave up on groups of people and focused on that which I sought, I found that peace was not only possible but inevitable.
From time to time you all will witness my anger and rage...then again you will hear of a presence of peace that I have found. You will hear me go on about perminance and imperminace (sp...you would think that after all this talk about the damn words I could at least commit it's proper spelling to memory). Anger and rage in my experience are imperminate experiences...it doesnt last. Yet the peace I speak about is indeed perminate. If I can use an analogy; Think of a bell...like a bell in a tower or even a telephone. The bell by it's design will ring out. Yet by the bells nature, it is silent. Between every ringing of the bell it is followed by silence and it will remain silent untill it is struck again. So, which is perminate? Anger and Rage will make my bell ring, so to speak. Yet once it subsides I return to the very same silence I was at before the ringing (Anger/Rage) takes place. Pirate, you recall once I told you that you will not be denied in your search? Here is how I can further illustrate how I can say that with the absolute confidence. Ya can't be denied in your search/pursuit of peace. Peace is not only possible but inevitable.
In re-reading this reply/response it occured to me that I should have followed my dads advice upon entering college. I should have majored in philosophy and minored in broadcasting, I could then think out loud and get paid for it. I mentioned this to my girl who was also reading this, and she said, "Thats true, sounds like a "Final Thought" on the Jerry Springer Show." Hmmmm Maybe it's time to close this thread...
Puh-ass
"
Woof-a-Doof...You have many insights that perplex me, and I wonder what you know... I am not threatened, and I have all kinds of shit to say...
Yes, by virtue of this board we are friends...I would like to talk to you...I would like to ask you some questions...
I am who I am, somewhat distraught at times, and not quite right in some ways...such is life...many things occurrr to me...
Rock On!!! ... ::alieneyesa:: ::alieneyesa:: ::rocker:: ::dove:: ...who knows...
Post by: teachback on January 15, 2006, 05:20:00 PM
oops, sorry.. wrong forum.
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 15, 2006, 05:23:00 PM
Post by: teachback on January 15, 2006, 05:26:00 PM
No, of course not..I haven't even been reading this thread. I was just goofin' around..please continue..
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 15, 2006, 05:28:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 15, 2006, 05:35:00 PM
Frank Disscussion, You are sharp and challenging... to a footballer... No offense intended...ever't'in' cool ??
Your questions are righteous, wherever they may be found.
Post by: teachback on January 15, 2006, 06:46:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-15 14:28:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
"...nevermind...I always thought that you were more than I could deal with, so smart 'n' intelligent...???"
Don't go getting morose on me now, Pirate. I'm enjoying my evening so far...
Post by: teachback on January 15, 2006, 06:55:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-15 14:35:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
Frank Disscussion, You are sharp and challenging... to a footballer... No offense intended...ever't'in' cool ??
Your questions are righteous, wherever they may be found.
I was afk all di while, mon. Ever't'in' be irie wid I & I. What up wid dat snide remark? Dat's a fuckery, dat.. :smokin:
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 15, 2006, 07:20:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-15 15:55:00, Frank Discussion wrote:
"QuoteOn 2006-01-15 14:35:00, starry-eyed pirate wrote:
Frank Disscussion, You are sharp and challenging... to a footballer... No offense intended...ever't'in' cool ??
Your questions are righteous, wherever they may be found.
I was afk all di while, mon. Ever't'in' be irie wid I & I. What up wid dat snide remark?
Dat's a fuckery, dat.. :smokin: "
...Yes-I...nonetheless you alright...RasTaFarI....Om- Shanti...Peace and strength 'n' such :skull:
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 15, 2006, 07:24:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 15, 2006, 08:47:00 PM
Sorry Frank D., I like you, but I might have taken ya the wrong way at first. Sometimes I'm a little too quick ta defend...
Post by: Anonymous on January 15, 2006, 09:56:00 PM
Quote
On 2006-01-15 14:20:00, Frank Discussion wrote:Elan, be happy you weren't it THAT fuckin joint ...
"hi-yuh hi-yuh hi-yuh hi-yuh hi-yuh...
oops, sorry.. wrong forum."
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 15, 2006, 09:58:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 15, 2006, 10:07:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 15, 2006, 10:43:00 PM
Post by: Anonymous on January 15, 2006, 11:24:00 PM
Post by: starry-eyed pirate on January 16, 2006, 12:40:00 AM
:grin: :grin: :grin: [ This Message was edited by: starry-eyed pirate on 2006-01-16 09:35 ]
Post by: dragonfly on October 27, 2014, 12:12:34 AM
Post by: teachback on October 27, 2014, 09:01:54 AM
it's pretty interesting to review conversations from 8 years ago.
Yeah! Makes me realize I miss some of the old emoticons.
Post by: Che Gookin on November 05, 2014, 09:32:00 PM