Bureaucracy defends the status quo long past the time when the quo has lost its status
--Laurence J. Peter
As bad as I feel for everyone's individual family situation, I can not help people simply say that you all have got it all wrong.
A free people ought...to be armed...
George Washington, 1790
Among the many misdeeds of British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest.
Mahatma Gandhi, My Autobigraphy, p. 446
On 2003-10-30 14:29:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"As bad as I feel for everyone's individual family situation, I can not help people simply say that you all have got it all wrong. During the time that I worked there, I was proud of the work I did with kids. I have not worked there for several years and I still have parents and kids contact me thanking me for how there lives are better. "
On 2003-10-30 14:29:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"As bad as I feel for everyone's individual family situation, I can not help people simply say that you all have got it all wrong. During the time that I worked there, I was proud of the work I did with kids. I have not worked there for several years and I still have parents and kids contact me thanking me for how there lives are better. "
Legalizing drugs would simultaneously reduce the amount of crime and raise the quality of law enforcement. Can you conceive of any other measure that would accomplish so much to promote law and order?
--Economist Milton Friedman
A drug is neither moral nor immoral - it's a chemical compound. The compound itself is not a menace to society until a human being treats it as if consumption bestowed a temporary license to act like an asshole.
--Frank Zappa
"One commentator pointed out that when the mafia commits violence, no
one suggests we bomb Sicily. Today it seems we are, in a symbolic way, not only bombing "Sicily," but are thinking about bombing "Athens" (Iraq)."
Ron Paul, 11/29/01 Speech before Congress
...the people have a right to keep and bear arms.
-- Patrick Henry and George Mason Debates
No laws, however stringent, can make the idle industrious, the thriftless provident, or the drunken sober
--Samuel Stiles
"One commentator pointed out that when the mafia commits violence, no
one suggests we bomb Sicily. Today it seems we are, in a symbolic way, not only bombing "Sicily," but are thinking about bombing "Athens" (Iraq)."
Ron Paul, 11/29/01 Speech before Congress
Heroism on command, senseless violence, and all the loathsome nonsense that goes by the name of patriotism--how passionately I hate them!
--Albert Einstein
Government exists to protect us from each other. Where government has gone beyond its limits is in deciding to protect us from ourselves
--Ronald Reagan
In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution."
--Thomas Jefferson 1798
When a man you like switches from what he said a year ago, or four years ago, he is a broad-minded person who has courage enough to change his mind with changing conditions. When a man you don't like does it, he is a liar who has broken his promise.
-- FRANKLIN P.ADAMS (1861-1960).
The Constitution of the United States is a law for rulers and people equally in war and peace. And covers with the shield of it's protection all classes of men at all times and under all circumstances.
--US Supreme Court, Ex Parte Milligan
Imprisonment: Being in a treatment center against your will is not imprisonment. I have done plenty of things in my life that I had to do or needed to do that were the complete opposite of what I wanted to do. That again is not imprisonment. Every single client, from the kid sitting on the front row, first chair to the fifth phaser would rather not be there.So they were being held against their will. you could say that you "have" to go to work, but like they taught us in RSC, you don't "have" to do anything but be born, breathe, and die. So you don't "have" to go to work. But clients HAD to stay in that joint whether they liked it or not...face it, you're in denial! Now let me click "Say It" before someone else beats me to it!!!
Mistreatment: If a child is hurting themselves, others, or destroying property, and after verbal intervention does not work, physical intervention is not only warranted, it is necessary for the protection of the person and the group as a whole.
One other thing-Is your family supposed to allow you to do whatever you want just because you say so, even though because of your own actions you are harming yourself and making their life a living hell? You need to grow up!
am not a lawyer, nor did I pretend to be. However, if a minor needs treatment and they are not given treatment, that is parental neglect in the eyes of the law, not a breach of the child's civil liberties
On 2003-11-04 08:04:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"You got yourself there by the choices you made prior to treatment-DRUGS. you chose to stay there longer than necessary by not following the rules. Even while you were there, you willingly kept yourself from the simple joys in life of watching TV, talking on the phone, being able to take a day off, just because you did not want to did some very simple basic things. Does that sound like a good decision to you?
"
Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If today he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,--"I see no probability of the British invading us"; but he will say to you, "Be silent: I see it, if you don't."
--Abraham Lincoln
On 2003-11-04 08:16:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"One other thing-Is your family supposed to allow you to do whatever you want just because you say so, even though because of your own actions you are harming yourself and making their life a living hell? You need to grow up!
Start basing your life on "objective reality".
"
At SAFE, all the staff were trained in approved physical intervention techniques, by outside, third-party trainers. But that is not what you want to know. Did people get hurt? On ocassion, staff and clients were hurt, including myself.
If All it takes is an infinite number of monkeys with type writers, then how come there's no Shakespeare coming out of AOL?
-- Anonymous
On 2003-11-04 08:16:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"One other thing-Is your family supposed to allow you to do whatever you want just because you say so, even though because of your own actions you are harming yourself and making their life a living hell? You need to grow up!
Tisk tisk your anger is showing. You sound like all the other staff I have heard...In STRAIGHT! 1980's...
Should you take a child who is such a way and lock them in a CULT.
Start basing your life on "objective reality".
You see, we are objective and this is reality. That is why we are here, trying to warn other people of the possible long term harm to their children.
At SAFE, all the staff were trained in approved physical intervention techniques, by outside, third-party trainers. But that is not what you want to know. Did people get hurt? On ocassion, staff and clients were hurt, including myself.
"
On 2003-11-03 07:19:00, exsafecounselor wrote:You said you knew Straight staff from another post. What is the first and most important rule?
"I have no idea what went on in any Straight program, nor do I have any idea what went on after I left SAFE. However, I can speak at length about the 2 1/2 years I did work at SAFE and nothing happened that could or would be remotely construed as abuse, imprisonment, or any prescription med. problems. It simply did not happen. "
On 2003-11-04 08:28:00, exsafecounselor wrote:SO all these kids were properly tested for DRUG ADDICTION? Ahem problems? And yes there is so called TM for children of unrealistic parents. Its called SAFE.
"Again, at SAFE, we only dealt with kids with drugs problems. I was not aware that there was treatment for those kids who have parents with unrealistic expectations. Do you sense my sarcasm? I hope so.
"
Web pages are like babies -- creation involves a level of enthusiasm that does not necessarily carry over into maintenance.
--Joe Chew
Believe nothing, no matter where you read it, or who said it, no matter if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense
--Buddha
If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race?
--Frederic Bastiat -- 1801-1850
It has ever been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues
--Abraham Lincoln
It is error alone which needs the support of government. Truth can stand by itself.
Thomas Jefferson
Come the millennium,
month 12,
in the home of greatest power,
the village idiot will come forth to
be acclaimed the leader.
--Nostradamus
It has ever been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues
--Abraham Lincoln
On 2003-11-04 13:29:00, GregFL wrote:
"A TOAST AND LOVE TO BIG FRANK!!!!!!!Come the millennium,"
month 12,
in the home of greatest power,
the village idiot will come forth to
be acclaimed the leader.
--Nostradamus
The greater the ignorance the greater the dogmatism.
--William Osler
A student burst into his office. "Professor Stigler, I don't believe I deserve this F you've given me." To which Stigler replied, "I agree, but unfortunately it is the lowest grade the University will allow me to award."
--Professor Stigler
On 2003-11-04 14:42:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"I was gone far before the whole Jeff and Weaver thing.
"
When we are pleading with foreign governments to stop the flow of cocaine, it is the height of hypocrisy for the US to export tobacco. Years from now, our nation will look back on this application of free trade policy and find it scandalous.
1989 testimony before the US Trade Representative,September 1989
--Surgeon General, Everett Koop
On 2003-11-04 12:46:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"While I was at SAFE, kids did not restrain kids. I was involved in the restraints and they were performed in line with how we were trained. Again, I heard from group staff that had been in Straight, that kids used to restrain kids. This did not happen at SAFE. BULLSHIT!
Would I want my kids to go through what I saw if they needed to-you would not believe my answer if I told you the truth.
I sleep very well at night. I think that how SAFE implemented the treatment model, differed greatly from what others had experienced at Straight, Seed, etc. THEN WHAT ARE YOU DOING ON THIS BOARD??
During the time that HRS put us on "probation" and we were being investigated, whether or not the kids could or should "motivate" never came up. Loretta P. got into a power struggle with HRS and they looked at every single thing we did. Motivating was never an issue. Regardless of your opinions of HRS, they were a 3rd party entity that could have tried to stop it if they thought it was a problem. They never said a word. NICE TRY BUT STRAIGHT CLOSED DUE TO ABUSE ALLEGATIONS AND BECAME SAFE. NEW NAME, NEW INVESTIGATORS, SAME OLD BS AS STRAIGHT WITH THE SAME OWNERS
Why am I here? I find this whole discussion fascinting. I also feel very proud of what happened while I was at SAFE and am trying to understand where others are coming from.
AGAIN BULLSHIT!
I BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE BRIAN SEEBER AND YOU ARE TRYING TO PLAY SOME SORT OF GAME, IF YOUR NOT B.S.THEN YOU ARE ONE OF HIS CROONIES. YOU ARE PROUD OF WHAT HAPPENED! THEN I SUGGEST YOU FACE THOSE PEOPLE AND SEE WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY. EXSAFE COUNSELOR "STAND UP"
WHO HAS SOMETHING TO SAY TO THIS GUY??? (Hands wave franticaly).
"
The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest possible limits. ... and [when] the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.
-- St. George Tucker, Judge of the Virginia Supreme Court 1803
On 2003-11-05 07:36:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
I am not saying that this is the only way to help kids. I am saying that it is one way to do it and it is not damaging or harmful when it is applied correctly.
Clients over 18 can leave at their leisure.
If a parent wants to pull a minor child, what kind of health care professionals would we be if we did not hold the parent accountable for doing something which is not in their best interest.
Again at Safe, every client past 30 days, has been diagnosed with some kind of drug problem.
Removing a child prematurely is not in their best interest. If you went to your doctor with a fever and he prescribed you an anitbiotic and you told him that you were not going to take it, what would you want your doctor to do?
We felt an obligation to acting in the best interest of the parents and child to try and get them to do the correct thing-which was stay.
During my time at SAFE, there was always an exec. staff member behind group. There was never an exception.
If a client wanted to report abuse, they simply took it up the chain of command and within about 30 mintues they call 180096abuse (If I remember correctly).
Don't laugh when you leave this courtroom, thinking you have beat the system because you have looked these things up yourself. We are going to get you down the road.
Washington Superior CourtJudge Rebecca Baker
If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race?
--Frederic Bastiat -- 1801-1850
What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
Power concedes nothing without a demand. The limit of oppression is determined by the extent of the endurance of the oppressed.
--Frederick Douglas
On 2003-11-05 10:10:00, exsafecounselor wrote:Loretta Parish was on staff before the name change and still on staff through the time when Weaver Hastings and Jeff H were there.
" The program has changed from when I worked there. 1995-2003 Alot can happen in 8 years. The biggest change has been the clinical director. We had a wonderful one when I worked there. Personally I could not stand her, but she knew what she was talking about and put the kids first.
Brian Seeber has taken over for Loretta and it is my understanding that he has a child in the program. This is bullshit. Program parents should have nothing to do with running the program they are in. It violates the ethics of counseling which state that you can not have a dual relationship with a client.
If what you are saying about adults is true, call the police and report kidnapping. You brought a vaild point, I dont think HRS keeps records anymore unless it is a founded case of abuse.
As your attorney, it is my duty to inform you that it is not important that you understand what I'm doing or why you're paying me so much money. What's important is that you continue to do so.
--Hunter S. Thompson's Samoan Attorney
The fact is the fact, the program is evil, and every attempt to make
chicken salad out of chicken shit has resulted in a Chicken shit
sandwich, No pickle on the side could ever change that.
BINGO!
People who are willing to give up freedom for the sake of short term security, deserve neither freedom nor security.
--Benjamin Franklin
Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
--Bruce Lee
It would be like hiring only ex-prison inmates to work as prison guards and administrators....after all, they have been there right? And lets not forget the Warden.....
Whoever kindles the flames of intolerance in America is lighting a fire underneath his own home.
--Harold E. Stassen, 1947
On 2003-11-05 14:43:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"I can not say this enough that nothing remotely close to that happened at SAFE, while I worked there. Actually, just the opposite happened. After a misbehavior called HRS about 5-6 times and nothing happened, they realized that they would not get out of the program that way. Sometimes they realized that the only way to get out was to work and change.
Isnt that amazing?"
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence.
--John Adams
Marihuana influences Negroes to look at white people in the eye, step on white men's shadows and look at a white woman twice.
--Hearst newspapers nationwide, 1934
It continues to amaze me to talk to law students -- college
graduates all and smarter than the average bear -- who will
seriously tell me about how dangerous mj is and how it
destroys the lives of those who use it and who, in the
very next sentence, will tell me how they and their
friends -- now CPAs, engineers, med students -- used
pot regularly through high school and college. And
they don't see the contradiction between these statements.
We're not just talking ignorance here -- we are talking
deep down, serious, religious indoctrination.
--Buford C. Terrell, Professor of Law, South Texas College of Law
On 2003-11-05 15:10:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
They do come out every time, but after they come out and nothing happens the child learns. The client is never punished. This did not happen at all while I worked at SAFE.
Everybody's lost just waiting to be found. Everyone's a thought just waiting to fade.
-- Billy Corgan of The Smashing Pumpkins
On 2003-11-05 16:44:00, Carmel wrote:
"Yeah Ginger, but I was thinking maybe we should all be professional street fighters.....
::bangin:: "
The man who views the world at 50 the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life.
-- Muhammad Ali
Where powers are assumed which have not been delegated, a nullification of the act is the rightful remedy.
Thomas Jefferson: Kentucky Resolutions, 1798
On 2003-11-05 15:10:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"They do come out every time, but after they come out and nothing happens the child learns. The client is never punished. This did not happen at all while I worked at SAFE.
If you consider operant conditioning manipulation, then the kids were manipualted. But don't argue with me, argue with the doctors that developed this concept decades ago.
"
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so.
Douglas Adams, _Last Chance to See_
Education is that which remains, if one has forgotten everything he learned in school.
--Albert Einstein, Out of My Later Years, 1950
On 2003-11-10 13:31:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"You have a teenage child who has used drugs, been in trouble with the law, destroyed your property, and made your life a living hell. When that child runs away from the program that you put them in to end the insanity and knocks on your door, why in God's name would you welcome them back.
I can just imagine a parent saying that I dont care what you did in the past and I dont care that you did not get any better in treatment, I am just so glad to see you that I wont make you go better if you dont want.
In reality, we had quite a few of those parents. They were the first to say that they disagreed with our rules. I wonder if their child made a miraculous turn around.
What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
On 2003-11-10 13:36:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"I have revealed my identity to some people on this sight, who give me the impression that they are reasonable, rational people. Without even knowing me, people on this site have called me a child abuser, brainwasher, one guy called me a child molester (sp?), stupid, and I am sure I am forgetting a few.
I know that many people have issues dating back from treatment at Straight and because of Straight. I simply dont want them misdirecting their issues at me.
"
I know that our bodies were made to thrive only in pure air, and the scenes in which pure air is found.
-- John Muir
On 2003-11-10 14:33:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"I have never, nor will I ever defend child abuse or child abusers. If I have please let me know.
"
Q. I simply ask, why is PUNISHMENT the solution with regards to the narrow group of behaviors which encompass illegal drug use....?A.Pharmaceutical Business, both legal and illegal, run by the same people either way, money coming to the middle from both ends. Bush.
Bill Gallagher
You know, if Mama Cass Elliot would have shared that damn sandwich
with Karen Carpenter, they would both still be alive today!!!!!!!
--chongo
The graduate with a Science degree asks, "Why does it work?"
The graduate with an Engineering degree asks, "How does it work?"
The graduate with an Accounting degree asks, "How much will it cost?"
The graduate with a Liberal Arts degree asks, "Do you want fries with that?"
--Anonymous
Not a place upon earth might be so happy as America. Her situation is remote from all the wrangling world, and she has nothing to do but to trade with them.
--Thomas Paine
On 2003-11-10 17:34:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"Please go back and read what you wrote. Rarely do you find a willing drug abuser/addict/whatever label you want to put in treatment.
Having worked with adults and kids, those who had something hanging over their head always did better.
In your world, therapy is either loving or rape.
I am sorry for what you went through. It obviously has strongly affected who you are and how you feel about treatment of any kind. Maybe in time as you mellow from your past experiences, you will see that there is alot of room between rape and loving therapy.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
Again, at SAFE, we never invented symptoms.
They came from the kid, parents, or other sources like police reports, arrest records, etc.None from the patient, though? What kind of doctor are you, anyway?! (Oh yeah, I forgot, you're not a doctor, are you?)
Although I am open to learning some, I do not know any parlor tricks. It is hard to believe that you believe what you are saying when you call a therapists credentials and a medical text book, somantics.
Again, I do not doubt what you are saying, but to assume that because it happened to you, that it happened to everyone, is a little silly. Dont't you think?
By the way, there is not a adolescent treatment program in the world that does not admit unwilling kids.
Does that mean everyone is abusive? You give teenage drug users too much credit for making decisions that are in their best interests. Adolescent drug users are never willing drug treatment particiapants. Think about what you are saying for a minute. That is not rape, it is actually putting the kids first to do what they need as opposed to what they want.
Given the choice between dancing pigs and security, people will choose dancing pigs every time.
-- Ed Felton (quoted in www-security about Active-X)
On 2003-11-10 17:41:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"If you think I misused my CAP, then call the CBAPF and report me.
There are not enough jails, not enough policemen, not enough courts to enforce a law not supported by the people.
-- HUBERT H. HUMPHREY, speech (1965)
On 2003-11-10 18:06:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"I found a new quote for you guys!"
Men had better be without education than be educated by their rulers.
--Thomas Hodgskin
The Internet is now safe for free speech.
-- Christopher A. Hansen on the overturning of the Communications Decency Act
Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
-- John F. Kennedy (1917-63), U.S. Democratic politician, president. Speech, 13 March 1962, the White House.
There are not enough jails, not enough policemen, not enough courts to enforce a law not supported by the people.
-- HUBERT H. HUMPHREY, speech (1965)
I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard was not what I meant.
---Richard Nixon
On 2003-11-25 15:05:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
You did mention something else worth noting. SAFE was a kindler, gentler version of what you experienced. There was confronation, but not spitting or abuse or deprivation. There is nothing wrong with the model, when it is applied correctly.
Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If today he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,--"I see no probability of the British invading us"; but he will say to you, "Be silent: I see it, if you don't."
--Abraham Lincoln
Of all the enemies to public liberty, war is, perhaps, the most to be dreaded because it comprises and develops the germ of every other.
--James Madison
Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded.
--Rep. Robert L. Henry, TX December 22, 1914 (quoting Lincoln)
The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.
O'Brien, the apparatchik
Everybody needs beauty as well as bread, places to play in and pray in, where nature may heal and give strength to body and soul alike.
-- John Muir
Everything that people say to you is personal. Whether it is constructive criticism or not will determine whether it cam from and asshole or not.
----Bill Warbis
Being a street cop, witnessing the tragedy firsthand, I've become
convinced that drug prohibition -- not drugs themselves -- are driving the HIV epidemic and the systemic crime that has swamped our criminal justice systems.
--Vancouver Police Const. Gil Puder
Hear me people: We now have to deal with another race - small and feeble when our fathers first met them, but now great and overbearing. Strangely enough they have a mind to till the soil and the love of possessions is a disease with them. These people have made many rules which the rich may break but the poor may not. They take their tithes from the poor and weak to support the rich and those who rule.
Chief Sitting Bull, speaking at the Powder River Conference, 1877
I choose to only think of the good that came out of my experiance. Frankly I could care less how anyone else deals with it, I'm not them, I wasn't there when they were. We are all different and there isn't any medical jargon that can fix that either.
In any civilized society, it is every citizen's responsibility to obey just laws. But at the same time, it is every citizen's responsibility to disobey unjust laws.
--Martin Luther King
"Was Straight a government experiment?"
fromwhat you tell me and i have been reading about, straight does seem more and more like a government program. one that could possibly work in a police state. i beleive i have read of these types of "experaments" before. didnt the gov once put philly under marshal law to see how a large mass of people would deal with such actions? Though straight seems to be looking towards the conformity of whole towns for longer and more controlled periods of time. what 20 yrs?? its actually a great idea for them. i mean a whole town of snitches constantly watching and reporting each other then placeing them in a brainwashing program till they are "better"
kinda like the simpsons where Ned Flanders is the ruler.
I dont know its a bunch a ramblin sorry.......
but not really (sorry).
SyN
On 2003-11-27 10:57:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"Your bitterness, resentment, and total lack of rational thinking has caused me to leave you and your kind to be forever trapped within yourselves. I wish you luck in the future and hope that in time the sting of the past will subside and you will know peace. :wave: "
On 2003-12-19 13:58:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
You sound like "the program" in the fact that a person has to either suport you blindly or be shunned.
[ This Message was edited by: exsafecounselor on 2003-12-19 14:00 ]"
On 2003-11-10 17:34:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
Having worked with adults and kids, those who had something hanging over their head always did better.
Again, at SAFE, we never invented symptoms. They came from the kid, parents, or other sources like police reports, arrest records, etc.
<
If you think that smoking dope is so great, you should smoke with your daughter. I am sure that will be a great bonding event for you.
There's so much comedy on television. Does that cause comedy in the streets?
-- Dick Cavett
Still, if you will not fight for the right when you can easily win without bloodshed; if you will not fight when your victory will be sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.
--Winston Churchill
In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution."
--Thomas Jefferson 1798
Marijuana clearly has medicinal value.
Thousands of seriously ill Americans have
been able to determine that for themselves,
albeit illegally. Like my own family, these
individuals did not wish to break the law but
they had no choice.
--Lyn Nofziger, former deputy chairman of the Republican National Committee
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former.
--Albert Einstein
On 2004-01-20 13:23:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"You are absolutely right. The kids that were discharged during the eval period, had just experimented and had not really abused drugs. In an earlier post, I actually cut and paste from the DSM the signs and symptoms that someone has to have to get diagnosed. Personally, I think that a place like SAFE best serves those kids who have a pretty extensive drug history and who have been to treatment and failed someplace else. That is just my personal opinion, however.
So do you believe that kids who didn't belong there ended up there anyway? Just clarifying.There are not enough jails, not enough policemen, not enough courts to enforce a law not supported by the people.
-- HUBERT H. HUMPHREY, speech (1965)
On 2004-01-20 13:30:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"I too saw the WAMI video. (I think that is what you are referring to)
What you do speaks so loudly that I cannot hear what you say.
--Ralph Waldo Emerson
On 2004-01-20 13:32:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"So do you believe that kids who didn't belong there ended up there anyway? Just clarifying.
All the kids that were admitted benefited from treatment. The kids that did better however, were those kids in the later stages of drug abuse. They suffered more consequences and were better able to make a connection between their drug use and their life being in the toilet.
"
The right of self-defense is the first law of nature . . and when the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.
--St. George Tucker, in his edition of Blackstone's Commentaries
On 2004-01-20 13:43:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"Here is a clearer answer. Everyone that was their needed to be there.
"
A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects.
-- Robert Heinlein
On 2004-01-20 13:45:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"A parent posted earlier that no children were restrained to keep them from leaving. She was there when I was there.
"
A good head and good heart are always a formidable combination. But when you add to that a literate tongue or pen, then you have something very special
--Nelson Mandela
On 2004-01-20 13:47:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"I sense your sarcasm. I tried to provide a little more explanation, but you accused me of "tapdancing"
"
You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war.
--Albert Einstein
I have found that the best way to give advice to your children is to find out what they want and then advise them to do it
--Harry S. Truman
The world is so exquisite, with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's no good evidence. Far better, it seems to me, to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.
--Carl Sagan
When Plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in a society, they create for themselves in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it.
--Fredric Bastiat
Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundation, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America.
James Madison
Allow the President to invade a neighboring nation whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such purpose, and you allow him to make war at pleasure. Study to see if you can fix any limit to his power in this respect, after having given him so much as you propose. If today he should choose to say he thinks it necessary to invade Canada to prevent the British from invading us, how could you stop him? You may say to him,--"I see no probability of the British invading us"; but he will say to you, "Be silent: I see it, if you don't."
--Abraham Lincoln
On 2004-01-21 15:33:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
That is why ALL of the kids at Safe HAD to receive a substance abuse diagnosis.
To say that Straight and Safe are identical is simply not true. I posted about this earlier. It is like any tool. When used by the wrong person it no longer is a tool, but a weapon. "
One of the greatest delusions in the world is the hope that the evils in this world are to be cured by legislation.
--Thomas Brackett Reed
Give to every other human being every right that you claim for yourself - that is my doctrine.
--Thomas Paine
On 2004-01-21 18:41:00, Anonymous wrote:
"someone who knows you well chicken to face life as a whole from what i see go ahead and insult me :eek: "
Republican n. A liberty despising, money worshiping, control freak. Democrat n. A liberty despising, social engineering, control freak.
-- Anonymous
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
Mark Twain
On 2004-01-22 08:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i was talking to cayohueso that was all i agree with the rest of you she is full of shit :???: i not a safe parent at all was in straight at the same time as her is all honest with ones self is a big one for people to handle "
Guard with jealous attention the public Liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that Jewel. Unfortunately, Nothing will Preserve it but downright Force. Whenever you Give Up that Force, you are ruined.....The Great Object is that every man be armed.....Everyone who is able may have a gun.
- Patrick Henry
On 2004-01-22 08:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"i was talking to cayohueso that was all i agree with the rest of you she is full of shit :???: i not a safe parent at all was in straight at the same time as her is all honest with ones self is a big one for people to handle "
It really puzzles me to see Marijuana connected with Narcotics - Dope and all that crap?it's a thousand times better than whiskey - it's an Assistant - a friend.
Louis Armstrong
Speak gently! 't is a little thing Dropp'd in the heart's deep well; The good, the joy, that it may bring Eternity shall tell.
-- G. W. Langford: Speak gently.
When cryptography is outlawed, bayl bhgynjf jvyy unir cevinpl.
--
Anonymous . . . for obvious reasons
There lives more faith, in honest doubt,
Believe me, than in half the creeds.
Alfred Lord Tennyson
On 2004-01-27 15:39:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"It is quite a bit of reading, but it talks about everything. If you have a specific question, I will answer it.
"
The overwhelming majority of people have more than the average (mean) number of legs.
-- E. Grebenik
On 2006-04-30 00:37:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Hello ExSafe Counselor
I was a parent in the Straight/SAFE Orlando program in Orlando from 9/90 thru 12/92. I
have not been able to picture whom you are.
However, my son is alive today because of the
program. He is soon to be 32 years of age. He
was 15 when we went to Straight. Obviously, I
was on board when the change was made to SAFE.
My son commenced in 12/92 but did not graduate
until 5/96. He relapsed soon after commencing.
He went back on his own to complete aftercare in
96. He is married today and has two children and
is doing well.
I am 15 years sober as a direct result of the
program. I am active in AA and I continue to
support the SAFE program in Orlando, which, by
the way is continuing to operate. I agree with
a statement that you made about financial difficulties because that continues to be factual
today.
My experience at SAFE changed my life and I credit
it with saving my marriage and giving me a family
that can communicate today. We just celebrated 47
years of marriage.
I probably would recall whom you are if I had your
name, but, I haven't been able to id you from my
memory.
I hope you will continue to stay active on this site. "
On 2006-05-03 11:03:00, exsafecounselor wrote:
"I am sorry to disappoint you. Many people actually get help there.
"
On 2006-05-31 21:54:00, stillsober wrote:
"This is amusing. I just learned about this forum. I find it amusing that people hold on to things for so long. I was in SAFE for 14 months in the 90's and worked there for several years after that. While I will say that I didn't agree with everything that went on while I was in there as well as when I worked there the fact remains that the program was effective at teaching me the basics of staying sober. The people who wasted their time in there and acted like asses are the ones who did not get anything out of the program. Furthermore I have never seen anyone "beltlooped" in SAFE or held by the shoulder. It seems to me that if you people put as much effort into bettering your own lives and letting go of things that happened in your past as you do bitching about SAFE you might be able to be happy at some point in your life. Oh and how many of you people are still sober?"
but, I make about $14k per month in my business, so I deserve a fucking drink or bowl now and again.
On 2006-05-31 21:54:00, stillsober wrote:
"This is amusing. I just learned about this forum. I find it amusing that people hold on to things for so long. I was in SAFE for 14 months in the 90's and worked there for several years after that. While I will say that I didn't agree with everything that went on while I was in there as well as when I worked there the fact remains that the program was effective at teaching me the basics of staying sober. The people who wasted their time in there and acted like asses are the ones who did not get anything out of the program. Furthermore I have never seen anyone "beltlooped" in SAFE or held by the shoulder. It seems to me that if you people put as much effort into bettering your own lives and letting go of things that happened in your past as you do bitching about SAFE you might be able to be happy at some point in your life. Oh and how many of you people are still sober?"
On 2006-06-21 16:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
I am a small business owner.
On 2006-06-21 17:22:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-21 16:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
I am a small business owner.
Would you elaborate a little?"
On 2006-06-21 18:12:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Come on, ahole...talk to me."
so after that comment,you really think I will tell you anything? Geezzzzzzzzz - nope,done talking with you.
On 2006-06-21 17:52:00, Anonymous wrote:Quote
On 2006-06-21 17:22:00, Anonymous wrote:QuoteOn 2006-06-21 16:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
I am a small business owner.
Would you elaborate a little?"
no, none of your bidness...........
On 2006-06-21 21:50:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quote
On 2006-06-21 17:52:00, Anonymous wrote:Quote
On 2006-06-21 17:22:00, Anonymous wrote:Quote
On 2006-06-21 16:57:00, Anonymous wrote:
I am a small business owner.
Would you elaborate a little?"
no, none of your bidness...........
Lemme guess.. a novelty salesman?"
no, uh, to do my job one has to have at least a Bachelor degree, most people in my career field have a MS degree. And, I enjoy making so much money per month. LOL - go on and be a SAFE supporter. Most of the ones that I have made contact with that still support SAFE are losers and brainwashed. Have at it. My life is far better than when I was trying to "work the program" Hey, give it a try.....not working your program. It works,and you will feel much better about yourself. :smile:
On 2006-06-25 10:02:00, Anonymous wrote:
"Quoteno, uh, to do my job one has to have at least a Bachelor degree, most people in my career field have a MS degree. And, I enjoy making so much money per month. LOL - go on and be a SAFE supporter. Most of the ones that I have made contact with that still support SAFE are losers and brainwashed. Have at it. My life is far better than when I was trying to "work the program" Hey, give it a try.....not working your program. It works,and you will feel much better about yourself. :smile:
I was just asking out of curiosity; I was never in SAFE. I hate brainwashed program ppl. What is it that you do?"