On 2005-11-29 23:10:00, AtomicAnt wrote:
"Oops! Forgot to sign in. The post on dissent is mine."
QUOTE: I am old enough to remember the youth movement of the late 1960s and early 1970s. Civil Rights, Womens' Rights, Gay Rights, and an end to a war came about because young people rebelled against the established adult order. Many positive changes were made; not the least of which is the greater transparency that the government and large corporations and other organizations must now operate under. The slogans included "Question Authority."
The point here is the combination of young people and dissent. What makes all these programs wrong is the simple fact that they allow no dissent. In this way, they are no different than Soviet or Communist China style re-education camps. END QUOTE
Your point is noble, but it doesn?t work because you start with the assumption that dissent is not allowed. The whole point of the program is to show the kids how to stand up for things they know are wrong. For example, girls who have been pressured or forced into sexual situations learn to communicate in an assertive but respectful way, looking out for their own needs rather then the needs of their ?friends??usually predators and drug dealers. Kids at most programs can dissent, as long as they do so with respect toward themselves and those they?re addressing. At some schools, they even have the opportunity to suggest changes and improvements to the overall program.
QUOTE: What is important is how those young people who disagree with the program and its methods are treated. The programs do not allow for any dissenting opinion without retribution. They are forced to adopt the Party Line. In this country that is considered a great evil; period. END QUOTE
As above . . .
QUOTE: No one has the right to forcibly strip search someone, steal their property, and force them into isolation and silence just because they disagree with their views or behavior. Not even that young person's parents. Not without due process of law. Without due process, these acts are abusive and unethical by the general standards of our society. Program supporters don't get this.END QUOTE
Don?t get this? Have you read the policies of any of these schools? I have worked at several, and there was NEVER a strip search. That becomes a real pain, because kids can try to get away with stuff, but no one ever sees these kids without clothing except their doctor and nurse who give them a physical. It's a matter of respect and safety.
Their property goes home, except for what they need. And there is no such thing as ?isolation.? Silence? Yes, at certain times such as in the classroom. Guess that makes public schools evil, too?
QUOTE: The icing on the cake. Placing a young person in an isolated environment in which these apparent sadists and potential pedophiles take complete control over that young person's life, without allowing them any safety measures at all (free communication, oversight), is simply irresponsible and asking for abuse to occur.END QUOTE
How can one be an ?apparent sadist?? What is a ?potential pedophile?? Those are very weighty terms, very accusatorial, and utterly unfounded. And the safety measures are extensive. Again, think about actually reading the policies of these schools. Go see for yourself how unrealistic your Oliver Twist angle is.
