My Book the Demon and the Monk

[Anonymous]

"MST is a pragmatic and goal-oriented treatment that specifically targets those factors in each youth?s social network that are contributing to his or her antisocial behavior. "


Imagine that!!! So it's not all because the kid is selfish or self centered!! It's actually a family and social problem, with each part contributing. NOVEL idea. REally

[demonandmonk]

quoted from above;
"The panel highlighted two programs that are clearly effective in reducing arrests and out-of-home placements: Functional Family Therapy, and Multisystemic Therapy. Among the important characteristics that these programs have in common are a focus on developing social competency skills, a long-term approach, and family involvement. "

All of which AARC does. My family learned many tools to function together. I had not lived at home for 6 years, but on level 2, I went home with my family and lived there during treatment and 2 years after. And it certainly doesn't get more "Multisystemic" than the varieties of levels
I was treated on. I was helped to function again in society (I was on the margins of society being a criminal), AARC was long-term, slow reintegration into the community(especially school and work), and my family was involved every day.

http://www.demonandmonk.com

[Anonymous]

On 2005-05-12 08:28:00, demonandmonk wrote:

"
You seem to have learned your lessons of how to abuse, patronize and belittle people well from your former captors. Telling someone that "They are not telling you that you are a horrible person (like aarc does), just very brainwashed and they dont want to be like you." and "your higher intellectual abilities have been disrupted" is wonderful. Because, of course what you believe about AARC is "right" and anyone else with an opinion, especially one based on first hand knowledge and end results, is wrong (brainwashed). But then the abused often become the abuser, and worst of all they do it with amazing self-righteousness (and anonymously)."

I am trying to explain that people react to you this way because they are scared of you. You are promoting a point of view that harmed them when they were young, and probably still does. My point is whatever the approach towards you, that is still very different than what AARC does, which is trying to protect and defend itself against abuse, but to perpetuate it. To hurt others. These are two very different things. I was trying to explain that and point out that your inability to see the difference in those two things shows that there is some part of your reasoning abilities that are not accessible by you. I am sorry if that sounds harsh, but that is the nature of being in a cult, you stop being allowed to critically analyze things.

[Anonymous]

I meant, which is NOT trying to protect and defenc

[demonandmonk]

On 2005-05-12 09:07:00, Anonymous wrote:

""MST is a pragmatic and goal-oriented treatment that specifically targets those factors in each youth?s social network that are contributing to his or her antisocial behavior. "





Imagine that!!! So it's not all because the kid is selfish or self centered!! It's actually a family and social problem, with each part contributing. NOVEL idea. REally"

"factors in each youth?s social network that are contributing to his or her antisocial behavior"

Like drug addiction? Criminal involvement? Associating with using addicts and criminals?  Excellent!

http://www.demonandmonk.com

[Anonymous]

I thought we were discussing the treatment model, not whether or not the kids needed help. Two different things...

[demonandmonk]

On 2005-05-12 09:13:00, Anonymous wrote:

"

On 2005-05-12 08:28:00, demonandmonk wrote:


"
You seem to have learned your lessons of how to abuse, patronize and belittle people well from your former captors. Telling someone that "They are not telling you that you are a horrible person (like aarc does), just very brainwashed and they dont want to be like you." and "your higher intellectual abilities have been disrupted" is wonderful. Because, of course what you believe about AARC is "right" and anyone else with an opinion, especially one based on first hand knowledge and end results, is wrong (brainwashed). But then the abused often become the abuser, and worst of all they do it with amazing self-righteousness (and anonymously)."

I am trying to explain that people react to you this way because they are scared of you. You are promoting a point of view that harmed them when they were young, and probably still does. My point is whatever the approach towards you, that is still very different than what AARC does, which is trying to protect and defend itself against abuse, but to perpetuate it. To hurt others. These are two very different things. I was trying to explain that and point out that your inability to see the difference in those two things shows that there is some part of your reasoning abilities that are not accessible by you. I am sorry if that sounds harsh, but that is the nature of being in a cult, you stop being allowed to critically analyze things."

Thank you for your concern!
Now back to chanting.....

http://www.demonandmonk.com

[demonandmonk]

On 2005-05-12 09:18:00, Anonymous wrote:

"???



I thought we were discussing the treatment model, not whether or not the kids needed help. Two different things..."

Look, I was not in the home, had not been in the home for 6 years. I went through family and individual counselling it didn't touch me. I used drugs and committed drug related crime for 10 years, every day. My psychologist parents would have loved an in home solution that could have touched me. Believe me they tried. I signed myself into AARC, could have left any time. I stayed, my family was there, we worked on a ton of issues about our family, and about my drug addiction. I learned to like myself, got rid of my shame and guilt for the type of person I was, got a job for the first time at 22 and have not looked back. Needed help. Got help. Moved on.

http://www.demonandmonk.com

[Mel]

Like drug addiction? Criminal involvement? Associating with using addicts and criminals?  Excellent!



http://www.demonandmonk.com"

Dave Grant (Demonandmonk) was a staff member at AARC when I was brought in. I was illegally held there for over one year. I was threatened that I would be restrained if I left and I saw other victims being restrained while I was there. I think actually Dave may have been one of the people helping to restrain A*r*l B**g*s? While myself and Dave were in AARC there was a lot of criminal activity, including child abuse through means of things like "The Zero Club" which involves "newcomers" having to urinate and defecate in front of staff and "oldcomers" and having to ask for one square of toilet paper at a time, and the staff and Oldcomers are allowed to deny them that right. Also sitting and holding kids down whenever they step out of line (basically physically stepping out of their chairs without being given permission first. Dave also partook in denying us our civil rights, and probably invasion of privacy, like when I found out friends were sending letters to me, and AARC was opening them up and reading them, then denying them to me. Having sold drugs (It was pot, right?) is a much less violent and harmful crime than what Dave partook in as a staff member in AARC.

There were some staff in AARC who clearly enjoyed recycling their abuse onto us. Dave was not one of those people. He believed (and apparently still believes) that AARC is the necessary evil to save people from "the disease". For most of us there was a time when we were programmed into believing it too.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-05-12 10:50:00, Mel wrote:

"

Like drug addiction? Criminal involvement? Associating with using addicts and criminals?  Excellent!







http://www.demonandmonk.com"

Dave Grant (Demonandmonk) was a staff member at AARC when I was brought in. I was illegally held there for over one year. I was threatened that I would be restrained if I left and I saw other victims being restrained while I was there. I think actually Dave may have been one of the people helping to restrain A*r*l B**g*s? While myself and Dave were in AARC there was a lot of criminal activity, including child abuse through means of things like "The Zero Club" which involves "newcomers" having to urinate and defecate in front of staff and "oldcomers" and having to ask for one square of toilet paper at a time, and the staff and Oldcomers are allowed to deny them that right. Also sitting and holding kids down whenever they step out of line (basically physically stepping out of their chairs without being given permission first. Dave also partook in denying us our civil rights, and probably invasion of privacy, like when I found out friends were sending letters to me, and AARC was opening them up and reading them, then denying them to me. Having sold drugs (It was pot, right?) is a much less violent and harmful crime than what Dave partook in as a staff member in AARC.



There were some staff in AARC who clearly enjoyed recycling their abuse onto us. Dave was not one of those people. He believed (and apparently still believes) that AARC is the necessary evil to save people from "the disease". For most of us there was a time when we were programmed into believing it too. "

Sorry, I have no recollection of you from any of my time at AARC, I wish I did. As far as what I did before AARC, selling pot was about the least serious. And I NEVER, EVER restrained ANYONE while I was at AARC. I did grab a kid who illegally trespassed on a neighbors property, and he later signed himself out, with no one getting in his way. I saw countless kids sign themselves out. I also never was in a bathroom when someone used the toilet or showered, either at the Centre or in my home. If I did any of these things, file a human rights abuse complaint or call the cops. It is really easy to throw innuendo and accusations - "may have been one of the people....", alluding to child abuse by myself, denying your civil rights etc. This is unfair and total BS. How you talk about your time in AARC is up to you, but don't try and paint me as an abuser - that is crap.

http://www.demonandmonk.com

[Mel]

Dave I'm connecting you to being a part of it, because you worked there and knew that this was going on. You enforced the same rules as everyone else in AARC. Countless kids who signed themselves out? Were they under the age of 16? Because I was told that I couldn't sign out under the age of 16 and that I'd be restrained if I tried to, and I saw that happen to others. I went to host homes in child locked doors and child locked windows, beds pushed in front of doors so that we couldn't escape, and our shoes hidden. I had oldcomers surround me so that I couldn't move. Calgary social services informed me that AARC did not have that right. I sobbed to you about wanting out, and I begged you to help me (while staring at your Salvidor Dali poster), and you enforced the rule that I couldn't leave. Legally, you should have helped escort me out. That was a denial of my civil rights which lead me to loosing one year of freedom during my youth which I desperately want back.

I know that you believe that you had the legal right to do this and that you were only helping. I recall you trying to have good relationships with each of the kids. Unfortunately you didn't have the right to keep me and you didn't help. You didn't listen to what I was telling you because you believed that we were all "druggies" and "full of BS". If you hadn't been taught that way of thinking then you most likely would have been able to see me with clarity and try to help me away from my family to a stable place. I certainly don't blame you specifically for this, just like I don't blame the other peers who I maintained friendships with for some time. But I do hold you just as accountable as all of the rest for not doing anything about it.

You were not with AARC for long while I was there. I have only a little recollection of you which includes that talk with you in your office, one talk with you in the kitchen, breifly some raps and what you wore, chickens, the job you went on to when you left, your girlfriend (wife?) and your mom. I remember Andrew and Mr. G restraining A*r*l and I think that you may have still worked there at the time.

My sibling only has three memories of the entire time in AARC and one is a sibling rap with you, and two of the rules. No Open Meeting, no Talks, she doesn't remember any of it at all.

[demonandmonk]

"You were not with AARC for long while I was there. I have only a little recollection of you which includes that talk with you in your office, one talk with you in the kitchen, breifly some raps and what you wore, chickens, the job you went on to when you left, your girlfriend (wife?) and your mom. I remember Andrew and Mr. G restraining A*r*l and I think that you may have still worked there at the time. "

Sorry, I wish I remembered you. Feel free to lump me in with your experience. But if I did something specific beyond what you oulined lay it out. I have no problem with the way I behaved at AARC, I belive I had integrity and was constantly learning and trying to help.
I forgot about the chickens! Wow! Damn, I wish I had included it in the book. What a fool I was. I can't believe you remember that! Girlfiend became wife. much in love still. Sadly my Mum passed away 18 months ago. Saddest time of my life, it almost sent me back out.

Take care Mel, I wish you only happiness and peace.

That's it for me for a while. If anyone wants to know my experience or opinions about AARC - buy the book.

Dave

http://www.demonandmonk.com

[TheThrilla]

While I was in AARC there was no question that abuse was going on, verbally and physically. I've seen someone get knocked down to the floor. That's just one out of the few incidents i've witnessed first hand. I've been personally subjected to abuse and if you have any questions about that send me a message.

[Antigen]

Dude, please edit your username. (use the Profile link to the left) If you use spaces, it'll wrap and not throw off the page formatting.

Thanks.

Truth does not have to be accepted on faith. Scientists do not hold hands every Sunday, singing, "Yes gravity is real! I will have faith! I will be strong! Amen.
--Dan Barker, former evangelist and author

[Anonymous]

On 2005-05-12 08:19:00, demonandmonk wrote:

"

On 2005-05-12 07:40:00, Anonymous wrote:



Well so you're saying you'd rather get treatment even descending from a program created my INSANE CHILD ABUSERS than, say, treatment that was created by real psychologists with a method that has been researched and that is accepted by mainstream therapists, along with society. Why would you choose that one over the other?? Because you were there? Ever hear of the syndrome where you come to love your abusers? "

You mean Real Psychologist like my father, a Ph.d? Or how about my mother, an MSc. Ch. Psych. Both were involed from the inception. You don't get more mainstream than them. As far as choosing one method over another, the Government of Alberta has struggled for over 20 years with helping adolescents get sober using 28 day programs, day programs etc. Now they are holding up AARC as the example for the future because most of the almost 300 clients are doing well, living very independently of AARC and contributing to society, drug free. The Corrections Centre for youth where I volunteer is full kids who have been through the regular facilities, here, in other provinces and in the US. In 13 years sober, I have met only a handfull of kids who got sober, stayed sober from going through your idea of accepted methodolgy. AARC uses AA aaproved material, the kids go through all 12 steps, (not 7 like KIDS), get help with schooling (teachers are on staff), help with jobs, family counselling, etc.



Talk to former Kids prisoners who have seen AARC or worked there and ask what they think. The ones I know say it is incredibly different from Kids. Do they have Stockholm Syndrome as well?



AARC certainly worked for me. Prison didn't. Family counselling and individual therapy didn't. I find it interesting that people who are against AARC always claim supporters have Stockholm Syndrome, and thus cannot be trusted, yet those against are perfectly rational.



http://www.demonandmonk.com"

Now your last name is Grant, right?

http://www.cap.ab.ca/PPA/Registry.asp?v ... 1&Run=True

Which of the only two registrants with the Alberta College of Psychologists is your father, by the way, or your mother??

Like, Dean Vause holds himself out as a psychologist but doesn't have the credentials.  So how do we know you are telling us the truth?
Name them.