some specific staff members

[GregFL]

wow.  Crazy days with children locked away from their familes to "save" them.  But from what?

I went to the seed in St Pete Florida.  Does anyone else remember the TV show this fine lady's sister was on?

Could it be the Skipper Chuck show?

[Anonymous]

Greg,

Oh, that's exactly what it was! Yes: Skipper Chuck.  It would have been in '72, I think (my sister would have been 10 or 11 at the time).

When I first posted in another thread, I said I was 13 (and my sister 12) when we entered the Seed, but she reminded me that, in fact, I was 11 and she was 10. I was 13 when I was attending oldtimer's meetings!

(Believe it or not, there was a precursor to the Seed: a program called "Here's Help" in Miami Beach, from which all of my older siblings "graduated," and then: "Operation Reentry," in which I did a very brief stint before being subcripted into the Seed.)

Of course, AA was our family "religion," so it wasn't so odd to me as it might have been to many others. Nevertheless, it turned me into a lifelong critic of anti-drug indoctrination.

My sister's and my view of all of this is more-or-less along the lines of Huckleberry Finn; i.e., the story of two young girls' adventures in the face of the impenetrable nonsense that was imposed upon us and required of us by the insane (and often sadistic) adults in our lives.

Once, my dad was called to the Seed (at the warehouse location) to "whip" my sister, with which request he was all too willing to comply. She STILL didn't "get with the program" though. In fact, to this very day, she never has.  :smile:

[GregFL]

your sister was ten and a veteran of three drug rehabs?

You were eleven and entered two rehabs for smoking one joint?

The whole world is stark raving fucking mad....

[GregFL]

On 2006-04-23 21:08:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Greg,


Once, my dad was called to the Seed (at the warehouse location) to "whip" my sister, with which request he was all too willing to comply. She STILL didn't "get with the program" though. In fact, to this very day, she never has.  :smile:



"

Aha!  All these denials that this ever occured and now we find, low and behold, that it wasn't isolated to St Petersburg and the result of renegade staffers like Mr. Underwood would have liked us to believe..but instead embedded in the culture and practiced right at Art barkers home based rehab.

Would you please talk to your sister about posting her experience in detail about having the Seed's "love" beat into her at the request of staff?

Thank you so much...

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-24 14:53:00, GregFL wrote:

"your sister was ten and a veteran of three drug rehabs?

No, it was my older siblings that were at "Here's Help."  I was at "Operation Reentry" for a a few months, and then the Seed.  

My family was lived-and-breathed "12-step programs."

[Anonymous]

Would you please talk to your sister about posting her experience in detail about having the Seed's "love" beat into her at the request of staff?



Thank you so much...



"

These are very old memories. I don't even know where these places were located. The place where my dad was called in to beat my sister was at the warehouse-like place, with loading docks and such (this is also the place that poor embattled Aurthur yanked her forcefully from her chair). It seems like that location directly followed the race-track location. Do you know when that move might have occurred?

As far as the beating, it definitely happened, although, as you can imagine, any parent who was willing to administer a beating in that setting was already pretty practiced at such. My dad was.

As far as my sister, as soon as she was allowed to  go home, she started writing "the Seed Sucks" all over the neighborhood. She was a real anomaly, entirely resistant to indoctrination.  She's not much of a writer though (I still laugh when I think of her four word moral inventories), so I doubt she'd post anything here.  :smile:

[GregFL]

you are speaking of the seed "home" on SR84, also known as "the compound" and various other monikers the press used to describe it.  It was a warehouse right before alligator alley on SR84 in Ft Lauderdale, and it had a big fence around it.  Art had a private office.  I was only there once but many here, including Ft Lauderdale, Ginger, Cleveland, and others spent many many nights of their young lives in that building.

[GregFL]

Im sorry.  It really wasn't a "move" per se.  Art opened the Miami location in 1973, and then closed and moved the Miami kids to the actual seed location in Ft Lauderdale.  This occured in 1973, but I don't have the date with me at this moment.

It seems you were in during the heydey of the seed.  So was I. I went in July of 73 in St Petersburg at the age of 14.  So we were seedlings at roughly the same time.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-24 18:43:00, GregFL wrote:

"you are speaking of the seed "home" on SR84, also known as "the compound" and various other monikers the press used to describe it.  It was a warehouse right before alligator alley on SR84 in Ft Lauderdale, and it had a big fence around it.  Art had a private office.  I was only there once but many here, including Ft Lauderdale, Ginger, Cleveland, and others spent many many nights of their young lives in that building.



"

Having all these memories revived, I was telling a friend today about the absolutely oppressive BOREDOM of it all (which in my memory, pretty much overrides every other detail which I might have otherwise recalled). The hours and hours and hours of monotonous nonsense! Oh God, when my dad threatened to take me back there at 14, I crawled out my bedroom window and never looked back (which was in '74, when your trials and tribulations which just starting!)

The funny thing is, neither then, nor later, nor now, have I really been "into" drugs!  :smile:

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-24 18:51:00, GregFL wrote:

"Im sorry.  It really wasn't a "move" per se.  Art opened the Miami location in 1973, and then closed and moved the Miami kids to the actual seed location in Ft Lauderdale.  This occured in 1973, but I don't have the date with me at this moment.



It seems you were in during the heydey of the seed.  So was I. I went in July of 73 in St Petersburg at the age of 14.  So we were seedlings at roughly the same time.



"

Ah, I'm starting to get my bearings here. Well, I turned 13 in October of 1973 -- so I guess I was 12 when I entered the Seed, and not 11. God those years, and all of the drug rehab programs, are confusing -- especially for a kid who never took drugs!  :smile:

[landyh]

Hey,
I also got to do my turn on the Skipper Chuck Show. Just for the record though I went to the seed the first time voluntarily in 1970. I was nine years old. By the time I was the age you were when you went into the program it was 1972 and I was re-entering the program somewhat less voluntarily for the second time. In 1970 not only was I the first sub teen to ever go to the Seed there simply didn't exist a seedling population that was enrolled for attitude problems alone. Most of the earlier members had fairly serious drug histories.
Cheers

[landyh]

On 2006-04-25 09:28:00, landyh wrote:

"
Most of the earlier members had fairly serious drug histories.

Cheers "

Before anyone says it I am well aware that some of those earlier members could have inflated their drug history for egocentric purposes or further acceptance within the group but both my sister and I brought people we knew into the program and none of them would have had to create a fictitous past in order to sound "bad" enough. Beyond that I have little doubt that most of those (even the worst) eventually stopped using on there own. None that I can remember stayed clean because of the Seed. As a footnote I met a girl last night at an AA meeting who it turns out went through Safe. The conversation started with her saying something to the effect that she had been through something when she was young that I couldn't even imagine. It ended with her realising she wasn't completly alone. I pointed her in this direction and I hope she will at least take a look at what is offered here. It has helped me to begin to come to terms with how The Seed caused me to fool myself most of all.
Take care all

[GregFL]

Thanks Landy.  You know, sometimes when I talk to people I see things that are almost imperceptable to the average person.  An inflection maybe, a certain language style...these things often make me want to ask if they were in the seed or a seed knockoff program.  I almost never do ask the question however, even tho thousands of people our age and younger have been thru Art's style of "rehab".  The only people I really talk to about this stuff are my sister, my best friend, (who doesn't really get it), and of course, you people on this forum.

[Anonymous]

On 2006-04-25 09:28:00, landyh wrote:

"Hey,

I also got to do my turn on the Skipper Chuck Show. Just for the record though I went to the seed the first time voluntarily in 1970. I was nine years old. By the time I was the age you were when you went into the program it was 1972 and I was re-entering the program somewhat less voluntarily for the second time. In 1970 not only was I the first sub teen to ever go to the Seed there simply didn't exist a seedling population that was enrolled for attitude problems alone. Most of the earlier members had fairly serious drug histories.

Cheers "

Oh, did you talk about the Seed on Skipper Chuck? My sis did. They really loved the novelty of a 10- or 11-year-old "druggie."  Hmm, I must have seen you in 72. I went in voluntarily in 72 (well, I did whatever my dad said, "voluntarily," let's put it that way). Of course, I was a barely-noticeable, very-compliant and very-dorky little thing -- so no one even bothered to harass me!  :smile: You sound more like my sister (who was also getting quite "non-compliant" at 12).

[NOT12NOW]

As far as my sister, as soon as she was allowed to  go home, she started writing "the Seed Sucks" all over the neighborhood. She was a real anomaly, entirely resistant to indoctrination.."

 

 Interesting so they eventually gave up and let her go home?  Did she graduate?

_________________
Cleveland chick 76-77[ This Message was edited by: NOT12NOW on 2006-04-26 10:42 ][ This Message was edited by: GregFL on 2006-04-26 19:30 ]