Author Topic: A cult?  (Read 38387 times)

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Offline Nihilanthic

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A cult?
« Reply #15 on: May 03, 2005, 11:44:00 PM »
Buzz, the bible says to stone recalcitrant Children! The bible says its OK to sell your daughter into slavery! The bible also has ton of laws about diet, sanitary laws about mensturation and nocturnal emissions, and clothing.... that are not followed!

So, why is it people pick and choose what they believe out of it? And why does it contradict itself? Its right and good when it says to do morally reprehsible or contradictory things? Uhhh no, its not. Also, FACTUALLY, its written down by men, and FACTUALLY, people decided whats 'in the bible' and whats not. So, please excuse my lack of enthusiasm about it.

Also, to me, if jesus was a good but insane guy, a good guy who was manipulating the spiritual situation of the time in Judea, or the actual son of god, it has no direct impact on how I live my life right now.

Whether I'm going to an afterlife or the ground to rot, I'm still going to wake up tomorrow and try to live a good life and be good to people. I dont require a punishment or reward to do so.

As far as faith goes... its hard to 'just believe'. If I go to hell because I cant make myself believe something, I dont care. Its not a concious choice to believe or not, Sorry. I'd like to, though. Would give me great peace of mind.

Sorry to make a big deal about faith - but its all it is. If there is a rational basis for it, its not a belief. Beliefs are things held as 'true' without evidence.

"The FARC is part of the history of Colombia and a historical phenomenon", (President Pastrana) says, "and they must be treated as Colombians". ... They come and ask for bread [aid from Washington], and you give them stones.

Robert White is a former American ambassador to Paraguay and El Salvador, and former No. 2 man with the U.S. Embassy in Bogota, is president of the Centre for International Policy in Washington D.C.
http://narconews.com/' target='_new'>Robert White

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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #16 on: May 04, 2005, 12:25:00 AM »
I believe all religions are cults. Providing followers with arguments and ideas that cannot be proven or disproven, then promising unworldly rewards which never have to be delivered, all in effect for obedience... seems rather cultish to me. But hey, what do I know I'm agnostic.  :wink: I suppose if there were no religion people would flock to nationalism, or some other sort of worshipping body- so I guess it could be worse. Anyone else feel religion contributes to war, intolerance and lack of scientific progression besides me? Why waste our time with fables thousands of years old, we should live our lives while we are alive and cherish fellow human beings, because there might not be an 'existence' as we know it after we die. I figure, enjoy it while we have it! Don't mean to offend anyone, it's just how I see things.
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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #17 on: May 04, 2005, 08:22:00 AM »
The muslims do not pray to the same god. Any good muslim will tell you that.  And NIHI...the Bible tells about some of that happening, but the Gospel, the new testament, the message of Christ does not.  It is obvious from your statements you have never read the new testament or even studied the old.  You are making comments on what you have heard or thouht was there.  And yes, have studied the Koran and the Book of Mormon, and also studied the mid eastern religions.  The difference between Christianity and and a cult is that Christianity is based on relationships and cults are based on good works.  All other religions have you earn your way into a good eternity.  Christianity says if you have a relationship with the living Christ, you will do the good works out of a love of Him not out of obligation or to get to heaven.  You can never be good enough to enter the presence of a HOLY GOD.  Only a relationship with Christ with get you in.
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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #18 on: May 04, 2005, 08:40:00 AM »
"Only a relationship with the living Christ will get you in"??

That is very small minded.  If "god" is the original and ultimate source of Love, then why would you think that path to him/her is so narrow??  Do you seriously think that everyone else is going to "hell"?

I know, it's pointless to debate with Christians.  We can only wish them the best and hope that they will find enlightenment from that small, narrow place where they reside.
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Offline BuzzKill

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A cult?
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2005, 10:09:00 AM »
Its only small and narrow b/c so few are able to understand and accept the simplicity of it. Also, b/c there is just the one way to salvation - but hundreds of ways to deceive yourself out of the free gift God is offering you.

The anon talking about works vs faith has a point. I am unaware of any cult that doesn't require works to earn salvation - and this is impossible, according to the God of the Bible - You can Not earn forgiveness, redemption - No matter how hard you try.

Niles, I think I could help you see how and why Jesus is who he said He is if you really want to look into it. Feel free to email me. Or just read The Book for yourself.

I very much like the book of Isaiah; he is an old testament Prophet and his revelations are clear and  to the point and poetically expressed. It is the writing of the prophets that prove the Bible is the Word of God. Isaiah is not alone, but he is my personal favorite. If you have never read the New Testament - you might do better to begin with reading the Gospels - then the prophets - So you'll better understand what you are reading when you do read the prophecies.

As for the "latter day " prophets - they fail the test of a Prophet of God, simply be being wrong so often. I'll grant you, they are right from time to time; b/c they do have a powerful and extremely intelligent entity giving them their information. But he is just a good guesser; and that is why he is often wrong.

God's prophets are never wrong - b/c God Knows and sees to it what He tells them comes to pass.
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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2005, 10:19:00 AM »
Actually Jesus says the way IS narrow.  I know you guys hate Bible verses, but in Matthew 7:13-15  JESUS says, "Enter throught the narrow gate, for wide is the gate and braod is the road that leads to destruction; and many enter through it.  But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.  Watch out for false prophets.  They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves."
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Offline bandit1978

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A cult?
« Reply #21 on: May 04, 2005, 10:31:00 AM »
I don't care (what the bible says) Jesus says!!

Buzzkill, I think it is you who doesn't see "the simplicity of it".  "God" is original love, pure and simple.  You do not have to follow any prophet to find love,  nor follow these specific little rules.  Just spread love- love others, love yourself, love the Earth, and you will be happy!  It's really quite simple.  

"I believe in God, I just give him more credit than that"   -Bill Maher
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #22 on: May 04, 2005, 10:47:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-05-04 07:31:00, bandit1978 wrote:

" Just spread love- love others, love yourself, love the Earth, and you will be happy!  It's really quite simple."


 ::heart::  ::heart::  ::heart::  ::heart::  ::heart::  ::heart::  ::heart::  ::kiss::

Spreading love to all people wrapped up in these programs. I feel like we've all been dragged down into a world none of us expected to be in.
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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2005, 12:56:00 PM »
Yup, straight is the gait and narrow is the mind that leadeth unto religious stuffiness.

Yea, verily, thou shalt have a corncob up thy butt.

Geez, you people take yourselves so seriously.

Timoclea
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Offline Anonymous

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A cult?
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2005, 01:11:00 PM »
pretty serious subject, where you'll spend eternity!  Jesus said, "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.  In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:  'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.  For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes.  Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'"  Matthew 13:14-15
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Offline bandit1978

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« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2005, 01:31:00 PM »
If you listened to Jesus now, he would probably tell not to judge others relationship with the divine.  And to lighten up and keep it simple.

Anyway, "God" is all encompasing, non-discriminatory, absolute love.  "Satan" is the one who wants you to fear, and discriminate, and feel guilty.
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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2005, 02:49:00 PM »
Bandet, I didn't say you should follow the prophets. I suggested you read them. And I only suggest it for those who are trying to figure out the Truth about Jesus Christ. I am not trying to judge you or Niles or anyone. I suggested no "little rules". I was very plain - obeying rules, big or small, will in no way earn a person salvation.

You are right, Love is the greatest gift; the one we are to strive for above all others. But you seem to think loving the creation is how you achieve salvation. Sorry if I misunderstand. I would say you must Love the Creator; and He will give you the gift of love for others. But Love of God comes first - and if you Love Him you ought to want to get to know Him - and I suggest the best place to do that is the Bible.

Earlier, I was simply trying to explain that you can know the Bible is the Living Word of God, b/c of the Prophecies contained there in. The point is, there is actually evidence that The Book is True. That's Why God gave us the Gift of the Prophets.

As for Love making you happy - Sure, It can. It can cause severe unhappiness as well. Love is not Peace, or Joy or Patience; But it is the greatest gift - and I hope you won't settle for an imitation.
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Offline bandit1978

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« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2005, 03:36:00 PM »
If the bible helps you to know God, then thats good.

What I am saying is, it is ignorant and small-minded to think that the bible is the *only* way to know God, and that Jesus is the *only* way to God, and that the bible is the *only* way to know Jesus.

My relationship with "God" became strongest when I stopped reading the bible and learned about other philosophies, and I became close to Jesus when I take care of people (which is why I became a nurse), and also when I started studying literature (found outside the bible).  

So, I know first hand that the bible is not necessarily the best tool for everyone to learn about history and God, and in fact, it is not necessary to read the bible in order to know Jesus.
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Offline Deborah

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« Reply #28 on: May 04, 2005, 03:44:00 PM »
***That's Why God gave us the Gift of the Prophets

And prohets have been wrong, or made suggestions that were appropriate for a given time in history. And many have interpreted 'the word' in such a way as to use it for justification to hurt other people.

The only 'word' is the golden rule. Treat others as you would have them treat you. If everyone possessed respect for self and others, including the non human inhabitants of the planet, it would be a very pleasant place to live. Might even look like the garden of eden.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #29 on: May 04, 2005, 04:00:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-05-04 10:11:00, Anonymous wrote:

"pretty serious subject, where you'll spend eternity!  Jesus said, "Though seeing, they do not see; though hearing, they do not hear or understand.  In them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah:  'You will be ever hearing but never understanding;you will be ever seeing but never perceiving.  For this people's heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes.  Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.'"  Matthew 13:14-15"


Well, if I'm going to spend eternity, I really want to comparison shop first, and I'm just not the type to spend all I've got in one place.

Nor am I the type to mistake a hard-sell advertizing campaign for a decent product.

I mean, you wouldn't know it to listen to their commercials, but there really are more than Coke and Pepsi on the shelves.  It's not a binary choice between them and, for myself, I kinda like rootbeer.

Mostly, I'm inclined, personally, to spend some of my eternity on the Summerland and another goodly chunk of it on a dozen or so medium-challenging Reincarnation Vacations.  Or maybe one every century, you know, do the tropics, Disneyworld, see the Everglades, maybe Rome, love a trip to Paris.  Alaska would be nice at least once.

So much to do, so much time.

Next to all that, the eternal cocaine trip (or is it heroin?) you're selling sounds a bit boring, ya know?

If endless (boring, mindless) bliss is your product of choice, I've never been an anti-drug fanatic.  Go for it.

But your "paradise" just isn't that appealing for me.  Sorry.

And I'm not to keen on buying the overflow hotel, either.

So I won't.

I've just never, since adulthood, had much use for deities that got off on torturing the folks that didn't buy the hard sell.  Strikes me as deeply psychopathic.

Gee, you get to be tortured forever or your "reward" is to be drugged up out of your mind living with a vicious psychopathic killer forever--(talk to Nadab and Abihu, or a bunch of innocent Egyptian kids who had the bad taste to pick the wrong parents about that).

How long do you figure you'd live there before he got bored and started having some of those "eternally" saved "falling"?  A week?  A year?  A thousand years?  If once you're out, you're out, it kinda doesn't matter.

Neither choice sounds like a winner to me.

And even if you were *right*, that would make eternity truly a lose-lose situation---in which case there's *nothing* to lose by choosing a better option on the apparent plate of choices.

When you get right down to it, the only way your "God" can be considered a nice person is if you define "Good" as whatever it is your "God" feels like doing at the moment on a whim.  And I've got no use for a god who achieves being "good" only by redefining "good" to a much lesser standard than he expects of us lesser mortals.

No sale.

Timoclea
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