Cross creek manor

[Anonymous]

Dear Ginger,
No no! Thank God he never became my step dad. My Mom and I made a bold move to move away after a while and he moved on and away. We later come to find out that he was actually Gay! (not that being gay is bad by any means, just that he lied to us and my Mom and that pissed us off) Thats why he never called my mom beautiful or complimented her and treated us like houseworkers! :roll:

Its funny. My mom and I were talking about how in the past we would attribute our good relationship to the program. Eventually after I came home, we fought just as hard and just as often and as before the program, I had to eventually move away. We finally started being friends when I decided my Mom is an incredible person and started to realize how very much alike we are. (in good ways and bad) Once I started realizing this and apologized from my heart, not just because I had to, we became closer than ever. We still fight but not nearly as much as before. I guess you are all right about that. Soemtimes it just takes a little growing up before you realize your parents arent the evil embarrasing people you thought they were as teenagers. (unless, like in your case, they are.) And I came to these realizations after I relapsed and quit going to AA. I dont know if that means anything, but perhaps it does. And now that I think about it, I am WAY different then I was in the program. Different from how I was before too, yes. But I didnt think listening to "non working" music was ok in the program. Now I listen to stuff I woudlnt dare listening to in CCM. I remember getting into fights with my friend Ashley (not Perri, another Ashley from Colo.) about how she felt the program was wrong for thinking music could make a person relapse. I agree, it does impact your feelings to a cerytain extent. That is hopefully what the artist is trying to convey. But it certainly wont make you do anything. Isnt that what the program says? No one can make you do anything? You choose to do it? Then wouldnt relapse be considered a choice and not something music, cloths, friends make you do? I remember PC1. Did you all have to go to that seminar? Its a seminar where you are working through your issues wiht your parents AND peers. It was horrible and since my parents were divorced, I went through it twice. After you have this extememly emotional talk with your parents, you have a exercise with your peers about making a home contract. You went into groups and talked about the various things you would put on a home contract and made it up to present to the adults. They basically set you up to fail, because all the kids put stuff on there that the program thougt was innapropriate. If you didnt make your home contract to fit how they thought it should be, you got yelled at. I remember the second time I did it, I knew what they were up to, so I warned my group not to put certain things on the contract. They didnt listen and of course, got yelled at. Then after you were reemed by David Gilcrese for an hour, the parents went away and the kids stayed to give feedback to each other about how you were "showing up" in the seminar. All these fucking people from other programs who didnt even know me gave me feedback! It was ridiculous. If they didnt talk to me, they said I was being a ghost and was giving up my power to the group. Ha! Its funny in a not so funny kind of way. I still have my seminar folder and the home contract guidelines if you want me to post it on the website to give you soem idea of how they set oyu up to come home. It is so strict. No one I know even followed it for a week, let alone 6 months like they tell you to.
I remember in PC1 how David Gilcrese came up to me and said "I hear about how "good" your doing, but I think you arent even close to being the strong person everyone says you are. I think you have alot of male acceptance issues oyu need to deal with now." First off, I had no male acceptance issues. I simply did not have an opinion one way or the other about males. If anything, based on my life wiht my distant dad and my overbearign step dad who dies when I was 13 and my neo nazi asshole "male" friends from HS, I generally didnt respect guys and had no problem not havign any in my life. Dont think that makes me have male acceptance issues. He is such an ass.
 Amanda

[Anonymous]

Hey ginger,
I know this is off topic, but how do you register? I tried and the Ip adress and all that confused me. Can you help?
Amanda

[Antigen]

Wow, Amanda, you're so clear headed. I wish I had as much on the ball at your age as you do now.

I don't think it's insignificant that you started sorting things out when you quit going to indoctrination sessions. Also very glad you didn't buy into the self fulfiling prophesy and "hit rock bottom" as a result!

I remember a time when my oldest daughter was still in diapers. I was so, so confused. After the Program and a couple of very abusive, overly controling romantic interests, I was just.... perplexed. I questioned everything I ever thought I knew. I even had to leave an open jar of jelly in the cabinet just to see if the "refrigerate after opening" warning was legit.  :smile: (I need to find a shrug icon) It worked out. Some stuff didn't. The jelly, of course, went moldy.

I remember getting into fights with my friend Ashley (not Perri, another Ashley from Colo.) about how she felt the program was wrong for thinking music could make a person relapse. I agree, it does impact your feelings to a cerytain extent. That is hopefully what the artist is trying to convey. But it certainly wont make you do anything. Isnt that what the program says? No one can make you do anything?

Classic slight of mind. In The Seed and Straight, the term was "druggie music". And I have to hand it to the new wave of programs. They've managed to take the whole script of the original jihad against unauthorized euphorea and edit it to fit any situation. Music can be pretty impactful. If you listen closely and think about what you're hearing, good music makes you think and feel. How you act on those thoughts and feelings is another question entirely. But, under Program rules, you're only supposed to think what they want about what they have told you.

And there's an endless, inavoidable list of things that will make you relapse. It's almost a dead certainty that 100% of Program graduates, splits and pulls will engage in some of these taboo activitis. Especially those that are the more demanding human needs! And you're right, it is a clearly visible cycle to anyone who stays in touch w/ Program vets. Everybody relapses, except for those who make a career of Program involvement. And, when they do, it's attributed to the breaking of one or more of those impossible taboos.

(I remember walking through the mall on a 5th phase permission, sweating over enjoying the muzak...)

We didn't have the seminars. Instead, we had weekly or twice weekly open meetings w/ the parents (depending on the era of incarceration) There are many accounts of open meetings followed by open meeting review in these forums and related links. So I'll spare you the gorey details and suffice it to say that the basic idea was about the same.

We also had rediculous requirements for being a graduate or 7th stepper in good standing. No boy/girl relationships for a year, I think it was? Are you shittin me?! You mean to tell me that you've kept me in a warehouse, within sight, smell and almost arms reach w/ a group of the opposite sex, never let us socialize in any way, let along consumating a burning desire. I'm 18. It's been two years, and you now expect me to not run out and get laid??? ROFL

Yes, unreasonable. And that wasn't anywhere near the most difficult condition to navigate around.

So, of the graduates you know who didn't stick w/ the exit plan, how many do you know who actually got sent back or threatened w/ it? I remember a few staff or graduate startovers at Straight. But, for the most part, I think those were only the kids who's parents dissapeared and those who's parents were so into it that they'd stay involved even if the kid bounced off.

I don't remember the whole aftercare regimen of surveilance and intimidation doing much but to drive people off.

--

[Antigen]

On 2005-05-22 19:29:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Hey ginger,

I know this is off topic, but how do you register? I tried and the Ip adress and all that confused me. Can you help?

Amanda"

IP address? You should be able to just fill out the registration form (click "Register" from the list to the left) It doesn't ask anything about IP addresses. Did you try registering and have trouble? We have made a lot of changes to the program lately. Please let me know. Feel free to aim, email or call if you want.

Or are you asking about how IP addresses help w/ identification? The short answer is, it doesn't make a difference whether you're registered or not. Every hit to every website that has the default server settings gets logged, whether you post or not; whether you post anon or not.

Is that more in line w/ what you're asking?

It may be that our role on this planet is not to worship God, but to create him.
--Arthur C. Clarke, author

[Anonymous]

I remember my therapist (the one who got fired secretly because he wasnt qualified to do the therapy we were doing) did a "process" for me. Basically my parents sent him all my old stuff, (had some awsome T-shirts and CD collection that is now forever gone. Bastards!) T-shirts, pants, posters, odds and ends, pipes, screens, bags, books, CDs, you name it, he had it. He used them to set up a senario of my life at home to teach me how bad it was. They got some upper phase girls to play me and my friends (it was so off from how I was it was funny) and played all the music I love and adore. My friend Jess played a friend of mine and basically yelled at me for an hour about how my firends were usign me and how this "image" was destroying me, ect. After that I vowed never to listen to that music again, engage in that type of stuff again. I remember at the upper phase facility, we could listen to the radio and the only stations there were classic rock (though not the good kind) and a hip hop station. Since I cant stand hip hop for the most part I listened to Classic rock. Since I wasnt "supposed" to listen to that kind of music I was always nervous when Led Zeppelin or the Doors or Jimi or Jethro Tull  came on. i woudl get knots in my stomach over listening to Crosstown traffic! It was silly. I remember I had myself convinced that Dave Matthew was evil and drug music. Dave! I get so mad at myself now, to think that I thought I was doing well, better than others in the program, when really it was just easier to brainwash me I guess. Sigh...

Most of the reason peple in PC1 got in trouble wa because they wanted to date. Apparently that was bad for them. In Aa they say dotn date till you have a plant for a year and have a pet for a year more. That is just totally not reasonable. Kids especially are going to date regardless of a home contract. I think that it isnt that dating is wrong. If you really care for the person and are ok with sex and the possibility of getting pregnant, or if you dont and just are havign sex, if you are intelligent and responsible enough to be careful and protect yourself that really matters.

Personally i think its funny cuz I wonder how many of those righteous program followers and owners have cheated on their wife/husband, lied about having sex, had sex before marriage when they were teens, ect.

No one I know was threatened with it because they were all 18 or very close to 18 when they went home.

Thought Id post some of the home contract stuff here to show you what Im talking about (and they feel home contracts will keep you sober and integrate you back into society well. This is their only tool to uninstitutionalize kids)

AFTER CARE PROGRAM
Each family must have a strong structured program which includes the following:
-24/7 structure
-Daily monitering
-Support activities- Parent support group, tasks staffing, NA/AA type support group
-After care home contract- Point Advancement, Vote for level move up
-Family activites
-Service project

-----------------------------------------------
AFTER CARE PROGRAM HOME CONTRACT
-Level System Basis Framework
-6 levels
-Daily refelctions
-Daily grading
-Daily review
-Daily point total

-House Rules- Addressing Individual Differences
-Curfew
-Household duties
-Household privliges- Tv, computer, telephone
-Peer aproval process
-dating/social
-clothing
-music
-school- homework, sports, activites
- Na/AA meetings
-Parent support group
-tasks staffing
-family activites
-----------------------------------------------
Aftercare Daily Objective
-I will not talk back, be argumentative, or show lack of respect to my parents.
-I will not through my attituede, facial expressions, voice tone, or gestures be oppositional and defiant
-I will not be rude, unkind, or inconsiderate to parents, siblings, or others
-I will not be moody or withdrawn, I will maintain a positive cheerful attitude.
- I will not push limits or pester PArents to do something outside the Level privleges
- I will keep my room clean and household chores completed in a timly mannar
-I will follow program dress and grooming rules
-I will complete my daily homework assignment
- I will be respnosive to all parental direction or request and I will contribute to the family
-I will be totally up front and honest with all my dealings

SCORING:
3- exemplary- completely met daily objectives without a single flaw
2-good- for hte most part met daily objectives
1-improvement needed
0-unsatisfactory
------------------------------------------------
LEVEL PRIVLEGES
Level 1-
Phone- no answering phone, parent listening, time limit
Music only approved by parents and played in common area
Computer- only with parent watching screen and activity monitered
Activites- no activites wihtout parent or responsible adult supervision
Daily review- Weekly academic progress report
Monthly random drug test

Level 2-
Phone- may answer if parent is in same room, limited time(increase at level 2)
Computer- Only when paretn is in same room and monitered use4, limited email use
Music- approved by parents and played in room no headphones
Activited- No activites w/out parent or responsible adult supervision
Daily review- weekly academic progress report
Monthly random drug tests

Level 3-
Phone- in common area and extended time for calls
Computer- no chat rooms, ect
Music- purchase by teen but subject to parent approval and monitering
Activity- 0ne non parent activity per week approved based on activity, location, and only with approved peer (no dating)
Job w parental approval
Driving- to work w monitering
daily review- weekly academic report
Montly random drug tests

Level 4-
Phone- open w approved peers only
computer- as approved by parents
Activity- 2 non parent activites a week approved on activity, location, and only w approved peer (no dating)
Driving- to work and approved activited only
Review 3 x per week- bi weekly academic report
Random drug screens

Level 5- VOTE UP REQUIRED
activity- up to 3 non parent activites per week approved based on activity, location, and only w approved peer
Dating- wiht parental approval
Driving- to work and approved activites
Review- 3x per week- Bi weekly academic report
Random drug test

Level 6- VOTE UP REQUIRED
Open privleges as approved by parent
Weekly review- bi weekly academic report
Drug test as desired

Must maintain 25 points on each weekly evaluation on level 6 or goes back to level 5 w 1500 points.
Category 4 and 5 rule violations result in returning to level 1 status or return to the program
Any category 3 violation results in return to level 5
Three or more Cat 1 and 2 violations in one week result in a return to level 5

Point advancement
400- move to level 2
800- move to level 3
1200- move to level 4
1500- move to level 5
1800- move to level 6
-------------------------------------------------
Cat 1 rule violation consequences-write self correction and lose 10 points
swearing
rude or crude
impolite
poor manners
late or not on time
minor-talking back to parents
minor-arguning
minor-disrespcet to others

Cat 2 rule violation consequences-write self correction and lose 50 points
dress and groming violation
talking back to parents
beign argumentative
disrespect to parents
disrespect to others
minor-lying,dishoesty, manipulation
Failure to complete household chores
failure to complete daily homework
Failure to complete daily objective report
Major-swearing
Major-crude and rude
major-late or not on time

Cat 3 rule violations-write self correction and lose 1 level (if on level 1 lose 200 points)
insubordination or defiant w parents
lying, dishonesty, manipulation
major disrespect to others
trend-three or more of the same violatoin in one week
failure to complete weekly academic report
minor-violation of house rules or level privleges
minor-curfew violation

Cat 4 rule violations- student returns to program or completes 20 work or study hours at home or room restriction (before resuming and normal schedule or activites) write 500 word essay and commitment letter to addres and fix the problem, returns to level 1 0 points
tobacco use
curfew violation
beign w unapproved friends
beign in unapproves area
being somewhere different form where agreed upon
major-lying dishonesty and manipulation
major-insubordiantion or defiance
stealing or theft
violation of house rules or privleges

Cat 5 rule violation- student returns to program or completes 40 work or study hours at home or room restriction, write 2000 word essay that includes commitment and plan to address and fix the problem, returns to level 1 0 points
drug/alcohol use
refusal to complete consequences
run away
major violation of house rules level privleges or curfew

students may never go below 0 points
------------------------------------------------
Whew! I sure feel sorry for the underpaid secretary that had to write all that garbage by hand! So basically its like being in the program at home! :roll:
amanda

[Anonymous]

ginger
I am confused about this stuff. What do I put
ICQ number, AIM, yahoo messanger, MSN, web site adress, signature.
Amanda

[Antigen]

On 2005-05-23 13:50:00, Anonymous wrote:

"ginger

I am confused about this stuff. What do I put

ICQ number, AIM, yahoo messanger, MSN, web site adress, signature.

Amanda"

OIC! Ok, all but your username, password and email address are optional. Truthfullness in the email address is also optional (depending on how much you trust my intention and ability to protect your privacy or just not bug you)  

ICQ, AIM, Yahoo Messenger and MSN are all chat clients. If you have handles for these and you want forum viewers to have them, then fill them in. Same w/ the website. Any favorite website will do.  

Thanks for the question. This is going in the FAQ.

I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religion than it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
--Albert Einstein, German-born American physicist

[Antigen]

That process you describe sounds a whole lot like some of the role playing we had to do sometimes. If the skit wasn't focused on somebody to begin w/, it was usually a set up. Staff would have a few kids do the skit then we'd have a rap on it. You'd just never know when you got called on if you'd be allowed to deliver your lines and have a seat or if it was an ambush. The last thing in the world you wanted to hear while relating in any rap was staff asking "Who has something to say to [state your name]". That was the cue. Even if nobody in group had any clue what to confront you for, even if you had no idea yourself how you'd done anything wrong related in any way to what you were talking about. You'd start scurrying around your head, searching for anything and trying to slap together a compelling defense or confession or any damned thing. Same thing was going on in the minds of those not currently on the hot seat; what to say, is this a setup (they want me to confront _____ about image so they can turn it around on me, I know it!)

No wonder most of us fell for it to some extent. Who has time to think critically when you're constantly in fight or flight mode?

That's the whole damned secret. If you're cold hearted enough, you can train a dog to do damned near anything in exactly the same way. Keep them hungry and nervous all the time, and they'll do anything to make you be nice and believe they're lucky. You just can't ever trust a dog trained that way. If they get happy, they get cockey and you lose control.

I don't know how the 7th step society compares to WWASP's aftercare, having never 7th stepped. But I'm sure there are plenty of ppl around here who could fill us in on that.

This is really getting good, don't you think? If anybody's out there compiling and anthology, here's some jucy meat.

Come to the woods, for here is rest. There is no repose like that of the green deep woods. Here grow the wallflower and the violet. The squirrel will come and sit upon your knee, the logcock will wake you in the morning. Sleep in forgetfulness of all ill. Of all the upness accessible to mortals, there is no upness comparable to the mountains.
-- John Muir

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

[Anonymous]

Thanks for the info. ill try it and if I do something wrong Ill ask for more help.

I remember my cousin, the one I told you about that I searched his room and found paraphanalia and told his parents, wrote me in the program and told me he thought I was being brainwahsed. He said one of the cues he had was the high sodium/fatty foods we were eating. He told me eating too much of that can make your brain lazy and more ceceptable to brainwashing. know if thats true?

They did ambush people in processes. YOu might think it was about someone else and then the story plays out to be you and oyu get confronted abd stuff. I think that particular process was the "turning point" for me. Thats when I really fell hard for the program mentality. Thats when I became one of those judgemental, rule nazi bastards I hated so much and do still. I wonder if the fact that I was abused by my step mom as a kid had anything to do with how I didnt feel abused. Maybe that stuff just was normal for me or something. I was used to getting yelled at and called names and called manipulative and such. The funny thing about it is I was too afraid of her to bring up the abuse ever in the program. Everytime I would even sort of bring it up, I was being manipulative or I was wrong. Fear can mkae anyone into an obidient person. She actually told me once that raising kids is like training a dog. You have to make them fear you and let them know you are the "alpha male". (Sadly that is an actual quote.) But I need the program right? :roll:

So yeah what do you think of that after care shit? Did you have anything similar to it at Straight? Can you believe they actually think that that would help a kid get back into the swing of being out side the rigid structure of the program? Amazing they get away wiht it...
Amanda

[Angola Cheeba]

K im just checking to see if registering worked.[ This Message was edited by: Angola Cheeba on 2005-05-25 09:41 ]

[`]

hey Amanda my dad used to whistle at us then point right in front of him and say "come here." and if we hung back he said "right here, right in front of me." ... :roll:

that's interesting about the fatty & salty diet, i never heard that. the US Govt is practicing behavior modification on us in preparation for the 4th Reich, which it seems is going to resemble 1984 by George Orwell.

well it's not a sure thing yet. watch what global warming does. i wonder what will happen when the Antarctic ice shelf slides into the ocean.

do i ever need some Bob Marley right about now.

[Antigen]

I gotta take the diet stuff w/ a grain of salt (uh... no pun intended). It's hard to say if it's intentional or not because those high carb, low protien diets are pretty much normal for so many people. Now, I don't think it's out of line at all to discuss the possibility that the FDA "food pyramid" as it's been drawn in recent years was somehow intentionally rigged just so. But, again, prove it! We can't. Nor can we disprove it. If there was any dark intention behind it, nobody put it in writing in any official filing or anything.

It's just one of those thangs. We tell the troubled parent industry that if they really want to take excellent care of the kids they say they want to help, feed them lots of fruit and veggies and stuff. And they respond w/ a resounding silence. We tell the public school system the same thing; same response. Draw your own implications.

The aftercare "plan" looks like it was written by a lunatic on the order of Pinkie and the Brain! I think those rules are rather strict for a 10yo, let alone a young adult. I can't imagine that anyone has ever actually followed a plan like that. And it's amazing to me (still) that parents who have spent their whole lives living out in the real world can look at this stuff and say "Yeah! That makes sense!"

Anybody care to offer a comparison to life in the 7th Step Society?

Errors, like straws, upon the surface flow;

He who would search for perls must dive below.

Prolougue (from preface to
the Panther Book)
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0510337112/circlofmiamithem' target='_new'>John Dryden, All for Love, Prolougue

[Angola Cheeba]

Hey yo,
Yeah, look at the american diet. Cheesburgers. french fries (oh excuse me, FREEDOM fries :roll:) and milkshakes. Have you guys ever seen Super size me? OR read Fast Food Nation? The shit they try to pass off as food in this country is scary. Well, unfortunatly if the food dosnt kill us, well all probably be blown to smitherines long before global warming takes its final toll. Sorry I know thats really pessimistic and all, but with Bush in power, I just dont feel safe. I wouldnt be supprised if we all die in a global nuclear holocaust before my daughter turns 10!
[ This Message was edited by: Angola Cheeba on 2005-05-25 09:41 ]

[Angola Cheeba]

FKA,
Cant parents be so cruel? I was talking to my Mom about the program the other day and I told her that I feel like the reason I was so depressed and angry as a child didnt have anything to do with her parenting. She was a really good Mom. It was my step mom who ruind my self esteem and crushed any hope I had to become who I wanted to be. She beat us with belts on our bare bottoms, she would line all the kids up and crack a bull whip behind us until one of us confessed to breaking a rule, she would make us sit with a bar of soap in our mouth for a really long time for talking back to her. Funny thing about that is my sister does the same shit to her child now. Even though she knows my step moms way is the wrong way. Guess you can be brainwashed by your parents too. She called us all names and used to tell me (and still does) that she wants to divorce my Dad because he is such a horrible this and a that. She belongs in a fucking program so she can experience the fear and intimidation and the hoplessness.


_________________
L'homme est ne'libre et partout il est dans les fers.
Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains.
Jean-Jacques Rousseau[ This Message was edited by: Angola Cheeba on 2005-05-25 09:42 ]

[Angola Cheeba]

Ginger,
In Fast Food Nation, they talk about the school lunches they offer to kids. The beef they use is the lowest grade and just borderline acceptable beef they offer to the US. They did a study in one school for "special needs" kids. Not mentally challenges kids, but kids who were disobedient and didnt do well in school. They changed their diet to helathy food, no high salt, high carb, high fat. They changed to low salt, normal carb, low fat, normal helathy balanced diet and the kids grades actually improved and they felt more awake, more motivated, and more positive. I know when I eat high salt high fat foods, I feel lethargic and depressed and when I eat well and exercise, I have energy and feel just generally better.

The original food pyramid didnt have meat on it. It was a vegitarian diet. Cant remember where I read that, in one of my vegan cookbooks I think. I'll see if I can find more info on it if your interested.

NO ONE follows their Home Contract. But the program assholes say its because the kids are manipulative and oppositional, not because it is unreasonable. Alot of parents dont really expect their kid to follow that guideline. My friend Ashley (not Perri) had a one page short to the point contract that basically said Im 18 and I can make my own rules. She graduated so I think they only force kids who are under 18 and not close to turning it to follow those strict guidelins. I was the only person who survived 6 months of that BS and I never got to level 6. I quit before that cuz it was impossible to follow those rules as an 18 year old in college.

Whats the 7th step society? A stright thing?