ABC Brat Camp

[AtomicAnt]

"...today's coddled spoiled tantruming brats..."
 
Why each generation seeks to villify its children is beyond me. I'm 44 years old and remember the 1970s when I was a teenager. I watched the original Scared Straight (same director as the current Brat Camp). Back then, we had the same media hysteria about 'out of control teenagers,' increased sexual activity, increased drug use, the country is going to hell, yadda yadda. Yes, I went through 'wilderness therapy' (1975). I felt good for a little while, but it wears off.

The 'tough love' approach became a fad around the middle to late seventies and many states opened Boot Camps for delinquents. Most have closed them because they are expensive and don't work.

Now, private enterprise has found a way to sell the 'tough love' approach to parents and make a fast buck off other peoples' pain. It sucks. But what really bugs me is how parents and the media can be still be sold this outdated technology.

Personally, I find coercive programs intinsically wrong regardless of effectiveness. The ends does not justify the means and we are supposed to be a society that believes in free will and freedom of choice. Some kids need help, but force doesn't work and is just wrong. The one aspect of my own experience that sticks with me is the frustration and anger of having to endure attitudes and activities that I felt were wrong, but knew I could not even express my opinion without risk of punishment. I felt that was wrong then. I feel it is wrong now.

Yes, I have kids. No teens, yet.

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-24 15:42:00, AtomicAnt wrote:

""...today's coddled spoiled tantruming brats..."

 

Why each generation seeks to villify its children is beyond me. I'm 44 years old and remember the 1970s when I was a teenager. I watched the original Scared Straight (same director as the current Brat Camp). Back then, we had the same media hysteria about 'out of control teenagers,' increased sexual activity, increased drug use, the country is going to hell, yadda yadda. Yes, I went through 'wilderness therapy' (1975). I felt good for a little while, but it wears off.



The 'tough love' approach became a fad around the middle to late seventies and many states opened Boot Camps for delinquents. Most have closed them because they are expensive and don't work.



Now, private enterprise has found a way to sell the 'tough love' approach to parents and make a fast buck off other peoples' pain. It sucks. But what really bugs me is how parents and the media can be still be sold this outdated technology.



Personally, I find coercive programs intinsically wrong regardless of effectiveness. The ends does not justify the means and we are supposed to be a society that believes in free will and freedom of choice. Some kids need help, but force doesn't work and is just wrong. The one aspect of my own experience that sticks with me is the frustration and anger of having to endure attitudes and activities that I felt were wrong, but knew I could not even express my opinion without risk of punishment. I felt that was wrong then. I feel it is wrong now.



Yes, I have kids. No teens, yet."

Bravo ... well said!

 :nworthy:

[Anonymous]

I'll second that! Well said, Atomic Ant!

[SilmarilOne]

"what god wants, god gets
god help us all"

roger waters 1994

[Antigen]

On 2005-07-24 15:42:00, AtomicAnt wrote:

Why each generation seeks to villify its children is beyond me.

They don't. At least not the way recent American generations have done.

Here's a good read on that:

At a time of decreasing youth crime what fuels the increasing incarceration and punishment of youth?

The fact that the Right is better positioned than the Left to take advantage of the alarmist anti-youth myths all sides circulate. The public and policymakers don?t know, and don?t care, that youth homicide and crime have fallen to their lowest levels in 30 years because their constituent interest groups, left to right, are busy fanning fears of youth to push their agendas. Progressives are outraged when U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft, former California Governor Pete Wilson, and their prosecutor-prison-industry allies inflame the press with false images of rising youth crime to advance draconian youth-crackdowns. But liberal-left political lobbies, culture critics, media, and program advocates (the same entities deploring society?s "criminalization of youth") also unconscionably exploit fears of youth and crime, violence, guns, drugs, and general dangerousness when it suits their purposes. Examples (of many):

Full Text:  http://www.zmag.org/malesint.htm

If I am of the opinion that it is inexpedient to assign to the government the task of operating railroads, hotels, or mines, I am not an "enemy of the state" any more than I can be called an enemy of sulfuric acid because I am of the opinion that, useful though it may be for many purposes, it is not suitable either for drinking, or for washing one's hands.
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-14 11:19:00, Deborah wrote:

"
.... The parents can be lame, show no respect but expect it, neglect the kid's real needs, and then pay to have them tortured into compliance- to 'act' with respect.

This is undesirable authoritarian, top down, control; lauded as 'therapy'. The parents should be right there with the teens, sleeping in freezing weather, no hygiene, pathetic food, using a latrine, hiking with packs equal to 1/3 of their body weight, publicly divulging their wrongs. They are equally responsible for their kid's distress and skewed perceptions of reality, if not more so.






"

It's a theory that started with "Tough love". Parents don't understand how there actions are negatively effecting their children. By the time children start acting up, the parents start up with tough love and don't understand it's just more of the same in a dysfunctional family.




Giving children a reason to be paranoid, that's what happens when they are lied to enough, isn't a healthy responsible act by a parent. If the child is into drugs, how did they meet those type of people? Those children are going to have to change associates. Oh and it't usually not the people that THOSE types of parents are able to detect. Those types of parents will start accusing anyone they don't like of being a drug addict or drug dealer. Who could use the word of an over emotional lair. Then the parent will encourage there precious children to remain friends with the real drug dealers and real users, because the parents are such experts. That is what the friend's of THOSE types of parents consider them.




It's a shame because even when the children are officially adults at 18, if they are healthy they  should leave home, they find out that they are still tied to their parents when they go for grants, scholarships, and federal loans. In the United States, parents have to sign in order for adults aged 18 through 25 to  receive funding from the government, even if they don't live with the parents and haven't for years.

[Anonymous]

Antigen,
I read the article. It covers far to broad a range of issues for me to adequately address. As a middle-aged man with a family, I think I am a pretty worldly guy. I have been around kids all my life. I'm well traveled, well educated, and well read.

I agree that the period called adolescence has been getting longer in recent years. Many, if not most of my friends got married in their late teens - right after high school. That was normal in those days.

I also agree that as a kid, me (and my generation) were given more adult responsibility and more adult-like freedoms than kids today are. By the time I was nine I was: camping overnight with friends with no adults, on my own from school dismissal until parents got home, taking care of younger kids during that time, had a job (paper route), left home alone while mom went shopping, etc. By age 12, I had my first gun, had gone on extended away from home trips, driven trucks on farm land, and yes, smoked pot and drank a beer or two.

But at the same time, Kindergarden was a half day and included milk, cookies, and nap time. We had no day care or pre-school (moms stayed home). We learned to read in first grade at age 6. We did not have to make 'play dates.' We just walked to our friends houses and played with them. We had far fewer scheduled activities. Summers consisted of two months of largely unsupervised free play. In other words, we were allowed to be children.

I remember when my friend and I got our first car at age 16, his father threw us a box of condems and said, "Now that you have a back seat, you will need these." Yes, times have changed.

That was then. This is now. The country has swung way to the right. I see two trends. The right is too punitive, the left too over-protective. Kids are over scheduled, over burdened, and over pressured these days. It sucks. There was no such thing as ADHD in the 1970s. Boys (84% of kids diagnosed with ADHD are boys) were expected to be active, difficult, and sometimes get into fights. "Boys will be boys" after all.

BUT! I don't think teens are as competent as adults. There is a reason we don't let 13-year-old boys drive cars on the highways. I also do not think kids should EVER be charged and tried as adults. To me, it is not about whether they know right from wrong. They do. What they don't know is how to navigate the adult legal system. I think the cases of the Central Park Jogger, Michael Crowe, and the King brothers are good examples of this. What we don't want to do as a society is throw a young life away when that life can be turned around. I am against the longer/harsher sentences imposed on kids, too. When I was a teen and we got caught with pot or beer, the police just took us home and told our parents. We got grounded. We received lectures on the dangers of this behavour. We turned out just fine.

I agree with article that competency is more a function of the individual than of age, but we have yet to come up with something better than age. The Supreme Court mentioned this very issue in their recent ruling that no one under 16 may be executed. They said they needed to set an age limit which would in many ways be arbitrary, but no better determination exists. They chose 16 through a combination of child development research and international standards. Personally, I am opposed to the death penalty.

Whew! That was long winded.

[Anonymous]

Antigen,
I forgot add that I'm not backing down on my statement that 'each generation villifies its children.'

When growing up I saw Time magazine covers in the 1970s decrying the 'teen drug epidemic' and the 'national crisis' of 'teenage pregnancy.' I had do endure many an adult talk about 'kids these days...' Each generation of adults thinks the world is going to hell.

My Dad said the same thing happend in the 1950s when rock and roll was destroying the youth of America and turning them all into beatnicks. My Dad was born in 1930. He taught math in high school from 1953 to 1993. His opinion is that teens were just as nice in 1993 as they were in 1953 and saw no cause for alarm.

[Anonymous]

I agree, we live in very conservative, over-protective, anti-youth times.  People act the way they are expected to act, so in a society that treats kids like criminals, no wonder boys are wearing their pants to their knees and waddling around like little wanna-be thugs.

[Anonymous]

People should start treating kids like respectable citizens, and not always just assume they are up to no good.  More often than not, kids are just hanging out and talking or playing games.  That's the honest truth.

[Deborah]

Thanks for the pleasant trip back to a simpler time. I grew up with the same liberties and freedoms.
Why all the fear mongering in this country? Is it profitable? Yes.
We not only have a 'drug' crisis, we now have a 'mental health' crisis and untold numbers of kids are about to be dx and put on addictive and dangerous 'drugs' right in the midst of the 'war on drugs'.
I'm glad I was able to swing it so my kids could experience some of those very simple pleasures of being young and being human.

[The Liger]

I don't know about the whole "villifying" thing (did I even spell that right?) but I think each generation has the whole "back in my day" attitude.  My parents smoked the same shit I smoked, drank the same shit I drank, and had...okay, they only had sex once and they didn't like it, they just did it for purposes of procreation.  Actually, one of the things my mom used to say was, "At least we had the decency to hide it from our parents."  

But what's my point?  Oh, they were fine, I am fine, and the crazy kids nowadays will be fine!

[The Liger]

P.S.  I really did not appreciate the counselor on Brat Camp pointing out that the teenagers were testing their boundaries and acting as though that was a bad thing.  Isn't that how teenagers become adults?

[Anonymous]

On 2005-07-28 21:58:00, The Liger wrote:

"P.S.  I really did not appreciate the counselor on Brat Camp pointing out that the teenagers were testing their boundaries and acting as though that was a bad thing.  Isn't that how teenagers become adults?
"

I wish people would tell me when Im pushing their buttons. If Im fucking with someone, I like knowing if Im doing it right or not - and not having to wait for a big blowup at the end!

[Antigen]

On 2005-07-28 20:38:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Antigen,

I forgot add that I'm not backing down on my statement that 'each generation villifies its children.'



When growing up I saw Time magazine covers in the 1970s decrying the 'teen drug epidemic' and the 'national crisis' of 'teenage pregnancy.' I had do endure many an adult talk about 'kids these days...' Each generation of adults thinks the world is going to hell.



My Dad said the same thing happend in the 1950s when rock and roll was destroying the youth of America and turning them all into beatnicks. My Dad was born in 1930. He taught math in high school from 1953 to 1993. His opinion is that teens were just as nice in 1993 as they were in 1953 and saw no cause for alarm."

Anon, I think we're pretty much on the same page here. It's hard to pinpoint exactly when this goulish anti-offspring trend really got started. But I think Males' explanation makes more sense than anything else I've heard. The hippy generation, the summer of love and all that was, in large part, about accepting others w/ love as brothers and siters in one big happy family. In other words, black boys having a decent shot at white girls. This scare the living SHIT out of people like my parents!

So they sent the 3 youngest of us to a private Christian school w/ one token black family out of about 350 or so. There were no less drugs, no less sex going on, no real difference at all, except that my parents seemed to enjoy the illusion of safety. Same thing w/ affluence, I think. Every year, my rich uncle would invite my mom and a few other close friends to go w/ his family to Martha's Vinyard. That was the only time I had the freedom, as a teenager, to just go biking all day or go out to a movie at night (w/ my red headed, exceptionally white) cousins.  

Seems the more that each generation intigrates the non WASP cultures, the more frightened the WASPie older generation is of their own kids. I think the Summer of Manson propaganda-fest was largely allegorical. The 'establishment' wasn't really worried about their own kids coming back to kill them, personally, w/ knives. They were worried about their old guard culture being killed off. In other words, they were and are wimps who lack faith in their own blood and culture to measure up to and to survive whatever comes down the pike.

All religion is dumb. It's one big story they're feeding you so you'll  behave on Earth. If there is a god, then he's a prick.
--Howard Stern, American radio personality