Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Daytop Village
Has anybody been to Daytop lately?
Antigen:
Odie, instead of using bogus rehab as a cover for real crimes, wouldn't it be better to repeal laws against statutory crimes like substance use, acquisition and distribution? And wouldn't it be great if we had a defacto substance abuse treatment method that was based in science instead of newage religious belief?
I honestly think that's most of the problem. Program believers think they've got this God in a bottle cure for litterally anything. A true believer will not turn someone in for murder or rape when they're working their program? They actually buy into the idea that the Program will cure anything.
For something that has spread with all the forethought of kudzu, the Internet isn't half bad."
-- Newsweek, 2/27/95
--- End quote ---
Troll Control:
--- Quote ---On 2005-08-25 08:17:00, odie wrote:
"Yes, and the stringent refers to the clients rights, not the social worker or psychologist' s moral or ethical dilemma. 42CFR Part Six was enacted because the Government realized that drug addicts weren't seeking treatment because of the fear that if they talked about crimes they commited they could be prosecuted. I pray that you are no longer working in the field of substance abuse treatment because you are a reason why addicts never sought treatment in the first place. If you think you are so correct on this point, just notify the feds what you did. I'm sure they will be glad to let you know how much the fine is for the first offense. Then maybe you will realize why the law is in place.
Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will [America's] heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.
--John Quincy Adams, Speech to the U.S. House of Representatives [July 4, 1821]
--- End quote ---
"
--- End quote ---
This is an exerpt directly from the statute you keep "quoting."
"(d) Criteria. A court may authorize
the disclosure and use of patient
records for the purpose of conducting a
criminal investigation or prosecution
of a patient only if the court finds that
all of the following criteria are met:
(1) The crime involved is extremely
serious, such as one which causes or directly
threatens loss of life or serious
bodily injury including homicide, rape,
kidnapping, armed robbery, assault
with a deadly weapon, and child abuse
and neglect.
(2) There is a reasonable likelihood
that the records will disclose information
of substantial value in the investigation
or prosecution.
(3) Other ways of obtaining the information
are not available or would not
be effective.
(4) The potential injury to the patient,
to the physician-patient relationship
and to the ability of the program
to provide services to other patients
is outweighed by the public interest
and the need for the disclosure."
How much clearer can that be? Can you NOT read?
If you're having literacy issues, then I'm just wasting my time.
Troll Control:
--- Quote ---On 2005-08-25 08:17:00, odie wrote:
"Yes, and the stringent refers to the clients rights, not the social worker or psychologist' s moral or ethical dilemma. 42CFR Part Six was enacted because the Government realized that drug addicts weren't seeking treatment because of the fear that if they talked about crimes they commited they could be prosecuted. I pray that you are no longer working in the field of substance abuse treatment because you are a reason why addicts never sought treatment in the first place. If you think you are so correct on this point, just notify the feds what you did. I'm sure they will be glad to let you know how much the fine is for the first offense. Then maybe you will realize why the law is in place.
Wherever the standard of freedom and Independence has been or shall be unfurled, there will [America's] heart, her benedictions and her prayers be. But she goes not abroad, in search of monsters to destroy. She is the well-wisher to the freedom and independence of all. She is the champion and vindicator only of her own.
--John Quincy Adams, Speech to the U.S. House of Representatives [July 4, 1821]
--- End quote ---
"
--- End quote ---
This is an exerpt directly from the statute you keep "quoting."
"(d) Criteria. A court may authorize
the disclosure and use of patient
records for the purpose of conducting a
criminal investigation or prosecution
of a patient only if the court finds that
all of the following criteria are met:
(1) The crime involved is extremely
serious, such as one which causes or directly
threatens loss of life or serious
bodily injury including homicide, rape,
kidnapping, armed robbery, assault
with a deadly weapon, and child abuse
and neglect.
(2) There is a reasonable likelihood
that the records will disclose information
of substantial value in the investigation
or prosecution.
(3) Other ways of obtaining the information
are not available or would not
be effective.
(4) The potential injury to the patient,
to the physician-patient relationship
and to the ability of the program
to provide services to other patients
is outweighed by the public interest
and the need for the disclosure."
How much clearer can that be? Can you NOT read?
If you're having literacy issues, then I'm just wasting my time.
odie:
I strongly oppose any legalization of the use, distribution, or aquisition mainly based on the experiences that countries in Europe had when they tried it as a solution to their problem. As far as scientifically based treament, I'd say the programs using cognitive behavioral therapy and motivational enhancement therapy bear the most productive results. Of course there are far too many programs stuck in the past that for whatever reason refuse to look at recent scientific research because they think their way is the only way and because it worked for them it must work for everyone else. Of course in a perfect world where everyone was identical this may be true, but it isn't a perfect world and we have to deal with each person based on their strengths and begin there when trying to have them modify their behaviors.
The way to see by faith is to shut the eye of reason.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor
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odie:
As far as continuing this debate, it looks like I'm dealing with someone who only wants to look at what they want to in the law and posting excerpts from it here. If anyone wants to take a look at the law for themselves go to Coded Federal Regulations and look at Section 42 Part 6. Like I said before, the case in California that this person claims to set precedent had nothing to do with Substance Abuse or a client in either a Substance Abuse program or receiving Substance Abuse Counseling. Those are the facts, plain and simple.
Eskimo: "If I did not know about God and sin, would I go to hell?"
Priest: "No, not if you did not know."
Eskimo: "Then why did you tell me?"
--Annie Dillard, "Pilgrim at Tinker Creek"
--- End quote ---
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