Treatment Abuse, Behavior Modification, Thought Reform > Thayer Learning Center

My Son At Thayer

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finlyrite:
Cpt Nemo:  Do you feel an inkling of disappointment over the alleged conduct of Willa Bundy?  Can you understand that some of us come here to describe our experiences and feelings since we have been on the receiving end of "Bundy desception"?

State report critical of boot camp over California teen's death

Associated Press

KANSAS CITY, Mo. - A state report on the death last year of a California teenager at a northwest Missouri boot camp found fault with access to medical care there and said records may have been falsified.

The Caldwell County Sheriff's Department had asked the Missouri Department of Social Services to investigate the November death of Roberto Reyes, 15, of Santa Rosa, Calif. The youth died at the Thayer Learning Center in Kidder, less than two weeks after arriving there. An autopsy cited complications from rhabdomyolysis, a breakdown of muscle fibers, and said the condition was probably due to a spider or insect bite.

In a wrongful death lawsuit filed in February in Buchanan County Circuit Court, the boy's parents alleged that he was subjected to physical exertion and abuse that caused or contributed to his death. Reyes' parents also claim their son would have lived had he received competent and timely medical care.

The state report was given last week to Jason Canoy, the Caldwell County prosecutor, who released it to The Kansas City Star. Canoy said he hadn't decided whether he would take any action.

"There are some alarming parts about it," he said of the 275-page report. "But I have not made a decision as to who I would file charges on or if I would file charges at all."

The state team that investigated said the boot camp apparently "failed ... to provide access to appropriate medical evaluation and/or treatment." Further, it said, "interviews and evidence also suggest significant contradictions and possible deliberate falsification of written records."

Ed Proctor, an attorney for Thayer, was unavailable for comment Thursday, but has told The Star that "every child at Thayer has immediate access to medical care at any time."

In interviews excerpted in the state report, owners John and Willa Bundy, along with other people connected with the camp, said they didn't know or think the boy was sick before he died. Willa Bundy also said she hadn't read the records in question until she was interviewed by a state investigator in late February.

At least 10 people identified as Thayer employees gave the state investigators descriptions of the boy, one saying he appeared lazy, another saying his attitude was bad. Some said he struggled to keep up with the rigorous exercise, that he complained of sore muscles, needed assistance walking and at times used others as "a crutch."

At least four said they never saw or were told anything to suggest Roberto was sick. But one drill sergeant said she eventually came to think he might be sick, and at some point relayed her opinion to Dorothy Steele, identified in the report as the facility's medical officer. The report said Steele, also the general manager of the kitchen facilities, is not a registered nurse and that an EMT license that she had expired in 2003.

Steele told investigators she treated Reyes on Nov. 1 for blisters on his feet. Besides sore arm and leg muscles, had no other medical complaints, she said.

Former employee Sarah Mackey, who resigned in December, told investigators her duties included filing daily "shift notes" about students and activities. The report said that after Roberto died, she read notes from the days leading up to his death and "stated that every day the log sheets indicated that Roberto was getting worse and worse and worse."

Mackey told the investigators that Willa Bundy later took files of the shift notes, asked for 10 blank forms and went into her office. When Mackey later reviewed faxed copies of shift notes sent to the state by an attorney for the boot camp, she "stated they were inaccurate and incomplete, compared to the shift notes she had seen and read in the office."

finlyrite:
This information was not available say 6/03.  Parents are trying to give others some first-hand information about the Program and experiences there.   I was only given references by Parent Help.  Funny thing, one reference I was given was "Adrian Grisel".  This is also Willa Bundy's maiden name, her behavior modification method named "Grisel Method".  Uhmmmmmmm

Anonymous:
January 23, 2005

Referral agency's connection to boot camp angers parents

Kansas City Star
by Steve Rock

Several parents who sent their troubled teens to Thayer Learning Center in northwest Missouri were referred to the school by what they thought was an independent agency.

In fact, the Parent Help referral service is operated by the same people who run Thayer, a military-style boot camp where a 15-year-old California boy recently died. The death triggered a state investigation and prompted former students and employees to come forward with allegations of physical and emotional abuse of students. The connection between the two businesses, less than 15 miles apart, angered several parents who spoke recently with The Kansas City Star. They said the relationship was never disclosed during conversations with Parent Help employees. ?I was very emotional and desperate in a way,? said Vicki Young of Ohio, who sent her son to Thayer in July 2003. ?And I thought this was a parent help group. ?I didn't have any hint they were related.?

A leading business ethicist said the relationship between the two businesses is clearly a conflict of interest, while a child welfare agency official said such a connection is not uncommon, but should have been disclosed. Three former employees of Parent Help told The Star they were coached to send as many children as possible to Thayer. Two of those former employees said they never disclosed to callers that husband and wife John and Willa Bundy ran both businesses, and one of them said a fellow staff member said not to mention it.

The Bundys ? who opened Thayer Learning Center Boot Camp and Boarding School in Kidder, Mo., in 2002 ? have offices at the Parent Help building in Gallatin, Mo., according to former Parent Help employees. The Bundys declined to take questions from The Star, referring inquiries to their attorney, Ed Proctor. Proctor didn't respond to several messages left with his office.

But Wally Kerr, sales manager at Parent Help, said Thayer is one of about 15 facilities nationwide that Parent Help represents. The Parent Help Web site last week listed eight in addition to two Thayer programs. Kerr said no greater emphasis is placed on sending kids to Thayer than to other schools. ?We try to get the best program possible for (the children),? he said in a telephone interview.

When asked whether Parent Help employees disclose the connection between Parent Help and Thayer to parents, Kerr said they only refer them to Thayer's Web site. The disclosure, Kerr said, ?comes through having them look at the Web site.? Separate Web sites for Thayer and for Parent Help include an identical section describing the Bundys as the owner of each. Each site briefly mentions the Bundys' connection to the other business.

Some of the parents contacted by The Star, however, either don't remember being sent to Thayer's Web site or never saw the mention of Parent Help. ?We're proud of the fact that the Bundys have established a school and that they've established a parent help operation,? Kerr said. ?There's nothing to hide here.?

One parent said she called the Missouri attorney general's office to complain that there wasn't full disclosure but was told to put her complaint in writing. Scott Holste, a spokesman for that office, said the Consumer Protection Division hadn't received any formal, written complaints about Parent Help. His office would look into any complaints lodged, he said. Thayer, located about 50 miles north of Kansas City, houses about 100 teens.

At the request of the Caldwell County sheriff's office, the Missouri Department of Social Services is investigating the November death of Thayer student Roberto Reyes to determine if abuse or neglect was involved. Gus Kolilis, deputy director of the department's legal division, said an investigative team has interviewed ?numerous? people. ?We're not leaving anything unturned,? he said.

No charges have been filed in connection with Reyes' death. Caldwell County Prosecutor Jason Kanoy said he was awaiting results from the state investigation, which could come as early as this week, before deciding whether his office would take any action. After Reyes' death, a panel of county and state officials charged with reviewing child deaths said earlier medical treatment ?may have prevented this fatality.? The Jackson County medical examiner's office said the probable cause of death was a spider or insect bite. The review by county and state officials ? coupled with police reports and allegations made by former students and employees ? painted a disturbing picture of life at Thayer.

A Dec. 19 story in The Star cited police reports and interviews with seven former Thayer employees and students that alleged physical and emotional abuse of students, such as one being forced to eat her own vomit, medical neglect and another student being forced to sit in a tub of urine. In a written response to The Star in December, Thayer officials called the allegations ?ludicrous and false.? Since the story was published, at least two children have been removed from Thayer by their parents.

Now some parents are raising questions about the manner in which their children wound up at Thayer in the first place. Parent Help hot line Some former Parent Help employees said they were reluctant to publicly discuss their experience there because they fear legal retribution from John and Willa Bundy.

Thayer Learning Center has filed at least one lawsuit against former Thayer employees, alleging defamation and other things. But conversations with three former Parent Help employees, as well as relatives of six children who have been at the school, offered insight into the placement process.

Several parents said they found the Parent Help hot line number on the Internet. John Bundy is listed on an online site that registers Web domains as the administrative contact for several sites, such as http://www.troubledteen.com http://www.troubledteen.com and http://www.teenprogram.info http://www.teenprogram.info. Neither of those sites clearly identifies their connection with the Bundys or Thayer Learning Center, but both sites mention Thayer as a ?featured school.? Both of those sites, and others, encourage parents to call the same 800 number. One parent said she called the number, then never went back to the Internet to do further research. ?Why would I?? the parent asked. ?Parent Help said so many wonderful things about Thayer.?

The 800 number is answered by employees at the office in Gallatin, in a building that has no obvious signs identifying Parent Help. Kerr said the business, which has about six employees, gets from  50 to 150 calls a day and additional inquiries via e-mail.

The employees who answer calls to the 800 number are not counselors, two of the former employees said, but salesmen who get commission for placing students at Thayer or other facilities. They ask the parents, many of whom are distraught about their child's behavior, various questions about the child and tell them they'll find the facility that best fits him or her. According to the former employees, though, the Parent Help representative recommends Thayer, where costs can exceed $50,000 a year, to as many parents as possible.

?If you called and your kid was over 12, I was sending you to Thayer,? said one former employee who did not want to be identified. Matthew Turley, who said he worked for Parent Help from July to October 2004, said: ?You would try to put the kid into Thayer, or suggest that one over any other one.? Turley said he never felt awkward pushing Thayer. ?To me, it never felt like I was trying to keep something under wraps,? he said. ?I just felt that Thayer was one of the better ones ? from what I heard.?

Besides, both he and Kerr said, not every child is sent to Thayer. There are some children ? those younger than 13 and older than 17, for example ? that Thayer typically won't take. So some kids are sent to places such as Bonneville Canyon in Maine. ?They have been very good to us,? Michelle Tibbetts, who works in admissions for Bonneville Canyon, said of her organization's relationship with Parent Help. Tibbetts said she was unaware of the connection between Thayer and Parent Help.

Kerr said employees aren't coached to send kids to Thayer but ?to get them into the correct program.? ?We don't follow a script,? he said. As far as the connection between Parent Help and Thayer, Turley said that unless asked specifically, ?we would never tell (the parents) that.? That infuriates W. Michael Hoffman, executive director of the Center for Business Ethics at Bentley College near Boston.

?I've heard of a lot of conflicts of interest, but this is way over the top,? he said. ?To say the least, it's clearly unethical ? especially when you're dealing with children, children who obviously need help.? Joe Healy, director of residential services for the Child Welfare League of America, based in Washington, D.C., said it's not uncommon for agencies to operate a referral center and a placement facility.

?For those that do, it would be typical that it's clear to everybody that they do both and that the referral might be to one of their own programs,? Healy said. ?It would seem to me, ethically, that you would disclose that.? Angry families All Young wanted to do was help her son, now 18. Her teenage son had become defiant, and Young wanted a military-type school for him, a structured and regimented environment that also had an educational component.

Young scoured the Internet, eventually finding the Parent Help Web site, which states: ?We help parents with troubled teens.? She filled out a questionnaire and waited for a phone call, which she believed would be from an independent referral service. The person who returned her call recommended Thayer. ?He said he had actually been to that facility to see what it was all about and that he was very impressed,? Young remembers. ?He said there were several programs, but specifically recommended Thayer Learning Center.?

Based on the recommendation, Young and her husband drove their son from Ohio to Thayer in July 2003. The grandmother of a different child also didn't realize there was a connection between Thayer and Parent Help. Jacqueline Payne, a Texas resident, desperately wanted to help her granddaughter. She found the Parent Help hot line number on the Internet and said she spoke with a Parent Help employee at least five or six times.

Not once did the connection between Thayer and Parent Help come up. ?I was real specific about what I wanted,? Payne said. ?He just said, ?It sounds like Thayer is the school you want.' He really talked them up and said the owner, Willa Bundy, had a lot of experience with kids. It sounded like the perfect match. ?There was never, ever any indication that they weren't an independent company. There was a curtain of dishonesty there.?

Payne's granddaughter was at Thayer for less than four months in 2003.

Parent Help Inc. was registered in Utah in February 1998. John Bundy, 47, is listed as the registered agent in Utah secretary of state filings. Thayer Learning Center LLC was registered in Missouri in August 2002, and lists Willa Bundy, 43, as the registered agent.

Ricky Parker wishes he knew about the connection between the two facilities before he sent his son to Thayer in November 2003. The Parent Help representative he spoke with pushed Thayer ?the whole way,? he said.  ?I thought I was talking to an organization that would help me choose, out of maybe several schools, where to send my child,? said Parker, who removed his son in January 2004. ?It was like, ?Hey, man, I worked there for a time. They really know what they're doing. They're very caring.' ?I thought they were advising me.? His thoughts now? ?I'm out about $20,000,? he said.

First glance

? A northwest Missouri military-style boot camp and a referral agency that recommends the school are run by the same people.

? Some parents who sent their children to Thayer Learning Center are angry because they thought the referral was coming from an independent agency.

Finding the right fit

Ruth Ehresman, policy director of Citizens for Missouri's Children, a nonprofit child advocacy group based in St. Louis, says parents need to ask tough questions when looking for a home for their troubled teen. If dealing with a referral service, ask whether the service has any affiliations with the schools it represents. When dealing directly with the facility, Ehresman suggests asking questions such as:

? Is the school credentialed, licensed or accredited? If so, by whom?

? Are staff screened? What kind of training is required of staff?

? Is there a written discipline policy?

? What's the provision for medical care?

Antigen:

--- Quote ---On 2005-05-01 17:35:00, finlyrite wrote:

"I'll have to give Bundy a little bit of credit.  I don't believe he would stoop this low.  Manipulation and deception is Bundy's style."

--- End quote ---


Oh, this seems to be quite common in the industry. And this is one reason why people are afraid to speak out and why it's so difficult to get any justice. There's a fine line between telling what you know and libel. People get emotional and make mistakes in their choice of words that anybody (but a good lawyer experienced in this area of law) might make. So then they get sued. Even if you do sue successfully, they routinely pressure plaintifs to accept a gag order as part of the settlement.

And then the Bundys and the Lichfields and all the rest of them claim the small number of successful lawsuits against them constitutes proof that they've never done anything wrong.

This is a really mean spirited industry!

Neither in my private life nor in my writings, have I ever made a secret of being an out-and-out unbeliever.
--Sigmund Freud, Austrian-born psychologist
--- End quote ---

Anonymous:
Dear Everyone:  

Sorry to miss all of your kind words.  I have been out of town (without laptop) and just returned.

As reading comprehension seems low on the board, I think it is time I repeat a few points.

1)  My comments about the results achieved by my son have only been about him.  I have made no other statements of general suitability; only to say that it is not a place for the "good kids", but (if any) the rally "hard cases."

2)  I have never defended the Bundy's. I have never met them.  

3)  I do not support the Bundy's fronting websites which do not disclose their connection to Thayer.  This, I beleive is wrong.

4)  The fact is that Thayer did work for my son.  I am sorry for any teen who was in a program that did not work out him or her.  I have only one son and he benefited from Thayer.  

5)  The diploma from the correspondance school Thayer uses was accepted by 3 universities.  No one even questioned it.  Maybe these are the only 3 schools in America that will accept it; I don't know. What I do know is that he is studying with an academic scholarship and doing well.

6)  I have never challanged anyone's account of how the program they were in was a complete failure.  I have accepted your bad experiences at face value [something you cannot bring yourselves to do regarding my son's experiences at Thayer]

7)  I understand that many parents feel guilty about their decision to send their teens to such a program.  I accept this and do not minimalize your feelings.

:cool:  I know full well what Thayer is like.  What you seem unable to accept is that this is just what he needed.  He confirms this to me.  

My son seems well adjusted to college life.  He is getting all "A"s and laid on average 3 times a week.  That meets my definition of a well adjusted young man.  We speak by phone almost daily.

What most of you need to get over is that FACT that a program you dislike very much did for my son achieve the desired results.  

It is interesting that you all find every reason possible not to accept what I have written.

As to posting on this site my or my son's name...just read your own posts.  Few of you are mentally mature enough to deal in an adult-like manner with such information and some of you are downright psychologically damaged (as you say in your own posts).

What most of you need to realize -- and this is somthing that will assit you in getting rid of all that anger you express on this site -- is that no matter how hard we try, we won't get a better past.

To the parents:  If we only had all the information before we made decisions.  With teens in trouble, we must often act quickly. And, it is our children through their own choices and actions that put us in this spot.  So if we error, it is in trying to do what is/was best for them.  

To the teens:  It would have been cheaper for Mom and Dad to have tossed you out the door.  They spent a lot of money on what they thought was best for you.  If it wasn't, well, they at least tried.  And, it was your poor choices and actions which put them on the spot to send you away. And don't say "It was just teen stuff, I would have grown out of it."  Listen, the jails and cemeteries are full of teens who did not "grow out of it"...and their parents cry themselves to sleep each night.

And to everyone:  Life is about making choices and moving on.  We are neither omniscient nor infallible.

Kindest Regards, Nemo

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