My Son At Thayer

[Cayo Hueso]

You're still not addressing many of the points brought up in this thread.

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=10#96845

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=10#96890

http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... t=20#97238

I'm having a hard time with the fact that someone could be so cruel to dismiss a child's death as just an unfortunate occurance.  Its posts like yours that occasionally make me want to just throw my hands up and say FUCK IT.  For you to be aware of what has gone on in that place and then to say you don't care how it works, you're just happy to have yourself a nice, quiet child creature is fucking appalling!   You're OK with kids getting abused as long as the end result meets your needs.   I really don't have a witty comeback for that.  It just scares the living shit out of me.

For twenty years I felt like I couln't really condemn the abusive program I was in because, after all I did get myself into some trouble as a teen.  I unfortunately was surrounded by people who did and still do buy into your way of thinking..."it saved her life, she was on her way to jail, who knows what would have become of her" etc. etc. and I bought into it at least to some degree (probably greater than I'm willing to admit) for a long time.  Give your son time, I don't think he'll have the same view of things as the years pass.  I could be wrong, but I doubt it.

Lighthouses are more helpful then churches.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

[Anonymous]

Your program did not work for you.  I accept that completely.  I am not trying to convince you that it did.  

I need you to define abuse.  A lot of physical excercise and discipline is not abuse for me. No one ever struck my son or tied him up.

What you need to accept is that the Thayer program (it is the ONLY one I have experienc with -- and by your postings it is clear you have no direct experience) worked for my son and for the Cruella's daughter.

What you know about Thayer is at best 2nd hand --probably 8th hand -- by the time you get it.  

I know it is not what you want to hear.  And, reading comprehension is low on this board -- but the fact is the Thayer program is what some kids need.  If you were not blinded by your own unfortunate experiences, perhaps you could accept this.

Cptnemo

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-26 17:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

What you need to accept is that the Thayer program (it is the ONLY one I have experienc with -- and by your postings it is clear you have no direct experience) worked for my son and for the Cruella's daughter.

What you should accept (for your kids' sake, not your own) is that the risk benefit ratio is about the same as throwing them off of a high cliff. In fact, the very basic method is about like that.

If you shove someone off a cliff, you show them, in no uncertain terms, that you're fed up and don't particularly care whether they get hurt or not. In most cases, they will get injured, but usually they'll recover (more or less). The trauma of injury and recovery from it will sometimes build character. But, more often, they'll just be injured and, hopefully work around it.

One thing's for sure, though. If they survive and if you ever see them again, they'll damned sure not do whatever it was that so set you off before you shoved them over the cliff. At least, they won't do it in front of you.

Never attempt to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig.
--Unanimous

[Anonymous]

Ginger dear, the question is:  Do you have any 1st hand information regarding Thayer?  Exactly what is the source of your "knowledge"?

I think anyone posting should inform the others of just where their information comes from.

So, Ginger, let us know....

Cptnemo

[Antigen]

I have exactly the same firsthand experience w/ the Thayer program as you do, Nemo. Neither you nor I have ever been in that program. Never forced to excercise till past the point of exhaustion. Never tackled for daring to look a sgt in the eye. Never had to wash the shit and puke off of a fellow student to clean him up for his trip to the hospital for declaraion.

http://www.stjoenews-press.com/main.asp ... M=65313.28

http://www.fortwayne.com/mld/fortwayne/11396902.htm

http://isaccorp.org/thayer/thayerlawsuit.pdf

http://isaccorp.org/thayer/parentswantclosure.pdf

http://www.showmenews.com/2005/Feb/20050206News011.asp

http://semissourian.rustcom.net/story/160546.html

I know what the spinmeisters are saying. I've seen the stock response; "don't believe anything you read in the papers." But guess what? The paper said it would snow here last Sunday and I'll be damned if it didn't snow here last Sunday!

What seems more plausible to you, Nemo? That all these different kids, parents, doctors, law enforcement investigators, journalists, fact checkers and lawyers are all involved in a grand conspiracy to... what, make you look stupid? Or that the people at Thayer are hurting children and lying their asses off to cover it up?

How do YOU explain the "miraculous" turn about in these kids?
 

Faith is believing something you know ain't true.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

[Anonymous]

Dear Ginger:  You need remember that no matter how hard you try, how much effort you put into it, you will still never get a better past.

My guess is that whatever program you were in, your "earned" your way in by your behavior.  Now, be a good citizen andtake responsibility for your choices and actions.

Even you, in those quite moments of contimplation, must accept at least some personal responsibility for your life.  While I know that being a victim is fashionable these days, why not go against current fashion and accept responsibility for who you are and what you have become.

Mom and Dad did their part -- now you can do your's -- and become a functioning adult. Trust me, once you are in adulthood, you won't want to go back....

Your Friend, Nemo

[Antigen]

Wow! Amazing! Not one single phrase or idea that's even remotely related to anything we're talking about. Is that in the manual or something? When you run out of ideas, just cut and paste from the support group? Or do they actually make you memorize this bullshit in seminars?

All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
--Thomas Paine, American revolutionary

_________________
Ginger Warbis ~ Antigen
Drug war POW
Seed `71 - `80
Straight, Sarasota
   10/80 - 10/82
Anonymity Anonymous
return undef() if /coercion/i;

[Nihilanthic]

 
:grin: Welcome to the dark side, Ginger Warbis.

Come the millennium,

month 12,

in the home of greatest power,

the village idiot will come forth to
be acclaimed the leader.
--Nostradamus

[`]

Ginger, you have the funniest anonymous posters following you around these days.  ::heart::


 :rofl:

[tlcrescue]

cpt, or whatever your name is.  you need to learn to login in when you post, people don't take anon's very serious around here.  I don't understand why you feel so compelled to "beat up" on ginger for her stating her point of view?  As you already expressed in my son's situation, not every kid is sent there for the righr reason.  YOu have no idea what is in Ginger's past and therefore have no clue as to whether "she belonged there" or not.....

My son most certainly didn't belong there.  My son most certainly didn't deserve to be abused.  I believe the whole point Ginger is making is that is it honestly worth sacrificing many children over?  I don't believe it is.  I believe all children have the equal right of protection, therefore, shools, like Thayer, that knowingly operate under such guidelines should be shut down and not allowed to work with children.

I, like Ginger, cannot even FATHOM how anyone can say a place like Thayer (and many others) is good and should continue on just because "only your child" was not abused. Screw the other children that are being abused, they dont matter?  That is basically what you are saying.  That the children that were abused and/or died, are not worth diddly squat in your eyes.

I am also willing to bet that your child is not of a minority.  Am I correct?

And, when posting, please post under your username, and not as an anon.

[Troll Control]

On 2005-04-26 17:36:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Your program did not work for you.  I accept that completely.  I am not trying to convince you that it did.  



I need you to define abuse.  A lot of physical excercise and discipline is not abuse for me. No one ever struck my son or tied him up.



What you need to accept is that the Thayer program (it is the ONLY one I have experienc with -- and by your postings it is clear you have no direct experience) worked for my son and for the Cruella's daughter.



What you know about Thayer is at best 2nd hand --probably 8th hand -- by the time you get it.  



I know it is not what you want to hear.  And, reading comprehension is low on this board -- but the fact is the Thayer program is what some kids need.  If you were not blinded by your own unfortunate experiences, perhaps you could accept this.



Cptnemo

"

Empirically speaking, what do you know about what happens in that facility when you're NOT there?

Isn't it true that you know only what you are told by staff or what staff has instructed your kid to tell you?

Isn't it true, then, that exactly EVERYTHING you know about Thayer is, by definition, second-hand or even further removed from the primary source?

One (very obvious) point that you seem not to get is that anyone with experience working or "residing" at these institutions surely DOES get, is that information flow is, by design, tightly constricted at all levels.  

That is, what you hear from staff AND your child is "scripted."  Your child has no real choice but to follow the script, or, when you leave, they will be swiftly educated to the consequences of not doing so.  This is one of the trademarks of BM warehouses.

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at with your insults about reading comprehension.  I assure you that mine is relatively high, and I cannot claim to understand at what you are driving.  

What I can see clearly though, is that your comprehension of PROGRAM DYNAMICS is very low.  You would do well to educate yourself to "objective reality" and understand you have no empirical data to support what you say (which is the exact argument you use AGAINST others).  

You're both ignorant and arrogant at the same time, which is, unfortunately, far too common in "program parents."

Instead of pointing the finger at Antigen for her program's not "working" for her, maybe you should point the finger at yourself for one, being a lousy parent who did a lousy job with their kid, and two, being dumb enough to believe that some complete strangers are going to "repackage" your kid for you into the "perfect child" you wish for, but are unwilling or unable to help on your own.

[tlcrescue]

cpt....these are the kind of people you entrusted your son to...and this came straight from the owner!

On 2005-04-27 12:27:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Nigger please, you don't know SHIT!-John "Big Dick" Bundy"

[SPEAKINGOUT]

Capt. Nemo, can you pleae answer the following questions:

WHAT 3 UNIVERSITY'S DID YOUR SON APPLY TO, AND WHERE DID HE END UP GOING?

WHAT WERE THE DATES THAT YOUR SON ATTENDED TLC?

HOW OLD WAS HE AT THAT TIME?

WHAT STATE DO YOU RESIDE IN?

and, if you are so brave to recommend TLC to prospective parents, would you be so brave to reveal your identity on this forum?

I DO NOT WISH TO ATTACK YOU IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM.  MAYBE YOU ARE FEELING ATTACKED- YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THAT WE (PARENTS OF FORMER STUDENTS) ARE OUTRAGED BY THIS SCHOOL BECAUSE ALL OF OUR CHILDREN HAVE BEEN ABUSED, NEGLECTED, OR HAVE SEEN OTHERS BEING ABUSED AND NEGLECTED.  THE CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES HANDS ARE TIED, AND WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT ANY OF THIS- UNTIL FINALLY....
A BOY DIED!!!  It was not an innocent death, and further they (TLC) is still trying to "hide" it.

My last question to you is:
WHEN YOU TALK TO PARENTS INTERESTED IN TLC DO YOU MENTION THAT ALTHOUGH YOUR SON DID WELL, AS IS DOING WELL, THAT THERE ARE SOME CONCERNS WITH OTHER PARENTS, INCLUDING A DEATH THAT HAPPENED?  OR DO YOU AT LEAST SUGGEST THAT THEY DO A "GOOGLE" SEARCH ON TLC AND THE BUNDY'S?  or
WHAT ABOUT SUGGESTING THAT THEY GO TO THE ISAC WEBSITE FOR FURTHER REVIEW OF THE SCHOOL.
HOW ABOUT LETTING THEM KNOW THAT THE BUNDY'S ARE RESIDENTS OF ST. GEORGE UTAH (AT LEAST THEY WERE AS OF A YEAR AGO), AND THAT THEY HAVE (OR HAD) OFFICE SPACE IN THE WWASPS OFFICE IN UTAH.  HOW ABOUT THAT JOHN BUNDY AND ROBERT LICHFIELD ARE LONG STANDING BUDDIES.  
DO YOU ALSO TELL THEM THAT IF THEY WERE REFERRED TO TLC BY PARENT HELP THAT TLC OWNERS ARE ONE IN THE SAME?  DO YOU ALSO TELL THEM THAT IF THEY HAVE ASKED TLC FOR AN ESCORT REFERENCE THAT THEIR SON (ISAAC) IS THE OWNER THEY WILL RECOMMED?
HOW ABOUT JUST GIVING THEM ANY OF THIS INFO.?? DO YOU DO THAT?? (ALONG WITH YOUR GLOWING REVIEW OF COURSE!)

Food for thought... it is only fair that they get the whole picture!

[Anonymous]

Hi, this is Nemo:

Much of what you ask is confidential.  Certainly, from the attacks I have received from people on this website, my identity remains the latin "nemo".

Interesting enough, whenever I speak to a parent I refer them to this website to get the views of those who oppose Thayer.  I think that before a parent makes such a decision, they should consider all sides of the question.

Even more interesting, the reaction of some parents (those who have called me back) is that the vehemence and seeiming irrationality of the attacks results in their viewing much of what they read as the rantings of the psychologically misfit. They see these posts as confirmation of the need for Thayer-like schools.

Some parents on the other hand decide not to send their teens to a boot camp, based upon the posts on this website.

Best Regards, Cptnemo

[SPEAKINGOUT]

Capt. Nemo, GRANTED some of the ?? I asked are personal, so I will remove them from the ?? I asked. I do however still have some legitimate ??  that will in no way reveal your (or your son's) idenity, and would further give your claims accountability.  Please answer them:

WHAT 3 UNIVERSITY'S DID YOUR SON APPLY TO, AND WHERE DID HE END UP GOING? this IS an important ?? as the MANY, MANY universities I checked into said that their "diploma" was worthless and unacceptable.Capt. Nemo, can you pleae answer the following questions:

WHAT 3 UNIVERSITY'S DID YOUR SON APPLY TO, AND WHERE DID HE END UP GOING?

WHAT WERE THE DATES THAT YOUR SON ATTENDED TLC?

HOW OLD WAS HE AT THAT TIME?

WHAT STATE DO YOU RESIDE IN?

and, if you are so brave to recommend TLC to prospective parents, would you be so brave to reveal your identity on this forum?

I DO NOT WISH TO ATTACK YOU IN ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM. MAYBE YOU ARE FEELING ATTACKED- YOU MUST UNDERSTAND THAT WE (PARENTS OF FORMER STUDENTS) ARE OUTRAGED BY THIS SCHOOL BECAUSE ALL OF OUR CHILDREN HAVE BEEN ABUSED, NEGLECTED, OR HAVE SEEN OTHERS BEING ABUSED AND NEGLECTED. THE CHILD PROTECTIVE SERVICES HANDS ARE TIED, AND WE HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DO ANYTHING ABOUT ANY OF THIS- UNTIL FINALLY....
A BOY DIED!!! It was not an innocent death, and further they (TLC) is still trying to "hide" it.

My last question to you is:
WHEN YOU TALK TO PARENTS INTERESTED IN TLC DO YOU MENTION THAT ALTHOUGH YOUR SON DID WELL, AS IS DOING WELL, THAT THERE ARE SOME CONCERNS WITH OTHER PARENTS, INCLUDING A DEATH THAT HAPPENED? OR DO YOU AT LEAST SUGGEST THAT THEY DO A "GOOGLE" SEARCH ON TLC AND THE BUNDY'S? or
WHAT ABOUT SUGGESTING THAT THEY GO TO THE ISAC WEBSITE FOR FURTHER REVIEW OF THE SCHOOL.
HOW ABOUT LETTING THEM KNOW THAT THE BUNDY'S ARE RESIDENTS OF ST. GEORGE UTAH (AT LEAST THEY WERE AS OF A YEAR AGO), AND THAT THEY HAVE (OR HAD) OFFICE SPACE IN THE WWASPS OFFICE IN UTAH. HOW ABOUT THAT JOHN BUNDY AND ROBERT LICHFIELD ARE LONG STANDING BUDDIES.
DO YOU ALSO TELL THEM THAT IF THEY WERE REFERRED TO TLC BY PARENT HELP THAT TLC OWNERS ARE ONE IN THE SAME? DO YOU ALSO TELL THEM THAT IF THEY HAVE ASKED TLC FOR AN ESCORT REFERENCE THAT THEIR SON (ISAAC) IS THE OWNER THEY WILL RECOMMED?
HOW ABOUT JUST GIVING THEM ANY OF THIS INFO.?? DO YOU DO THAT?? (ALONG WITH YOUR GLOWING REVIEW OF COURSE!)

Food for thought... it is only fair that they get the whole picture!

WHAT WERE THE DATES THAT YOUR SON ATTENDED TLC? I'm not looking for exact dates, just approximations- like summer of 2003- or whatever!

HOW OLD WAS HE AT THAT TIME? Seems to make a big difference the age of these kids when they are in the program, for example my son was 17. (only there for 4 LONG months) :question:  :question:  :question:

Finally, to send parents to this forum is certainly fuel for your fire.  I agree that some of the parents and former students act inappropriately.  Again, I am not making excuses for them, but I do understand that this is the only forum they have to vent.  Much of the press, politicians and media do not care about our stories- so this forum allows the things to be said, sometimes in their "raw" form.
It is certainly NOT the place that a person who wanted parents to have an "educated decision" to be sent.  You seem like a reasonably intelligent person, so I know that you understand this statemtent to be true.  So again, I would like to ask that you consider actually sending them to a ligitimate sight with legitimate information, again- like a google search that will tell them about the death of the Reyes boy and the sitings/findings of the investigation, like the Isac sight, or some other search that will give them the full picture.  and I also leave on the same request as on my previous post, which IF TLC and the Bundy's "Other" ventures are on the up and up then there should be no problem divulging their "connection":

DO YOU ALSO TELL THEM THAT IF THEY WERE REFERRED TO TLC BY PARENT HELP THAT TLC OWNERS ARE ONE IN THE SAME? DO YOU ALSO TELL THEM THAT IF THEY HAVE ASKED TLC FOR AN ESCORT REFERENCE THAT THEIR SON (ISAAC) IS THE OWNER THEY WILL RECOMMED?
HOW ABOUT JUST GIVING THEM ANY OF THIS INFO.?? DO YOU DO THAT?? (ALONG WITH YOUR GLOWING REVIEW OF COURSE!)
PLEASE ANSWER THE SPECIFIC ??

Food for thought... it is only fair that they get the whole picture!