My Son At Thayer

[SPEAKINGOUT]

...but it doesn't get past the fact that therapeutic boarding schools (at least some of them) lead to good results with a lot of kids.

Please go back a couple of pages and read my post(s)regarding this.  THAYER IS NOT A THERAPEUTIC SCHOOL!  

Sure there's restraint of kids who are bent on self-destruction in the schools I'm talking about, and maybe hard work and emotionally painful passages---sorry if that offends you, sometimes kids need serious limits.

My argument is about neglect & abuse.  If you read the articles NOT written by a money hungry attorney, but actual quotes from the investigation on the boy's death you will find that there is plenty of evidence that he was neglected and abused there.  The "recluse" that bit him was just listed as a probable cause of death.
It is interesting to note that in autopsy not all information; for example: My mother died after suffering with pancreas cancer.  The autopsy report did not say ANYTHING about her terminal illness.  It stated simply that she died of liver failure and emphysema- (sorry- I'm not looking up the medical spellings for any of this stuff).  Anyway, the point is that these "symptoms of death" were in direct correlation to her illness which was NOT mentioned, you get my point I think.  The Reyes boy's investigation has many findings ALONG with the recluse spider bite.  It states clearly that it is probable that if he had been treated that he would not have died, isn't that enough for you?  Also- it is important to note that the fee to send your child to this place is about 4k per month.  They make the kids sleep on the concrete ground in a sleeping bag in a room that DID NOT HAVE screens on the windows therefore spiders abound!  There are so many other things that happen there including not allowing the kids to use the bathroom- is that humane?  My child was refused medical care TWO times also while in this program.  AGAIN- IT IS NOT A THERAPEUTIC PROGRAM- go back to my previous posts to explain why it does not qualify as one.  When you read the investigation you will also find that their medical officer (ms. Dorothy) who is also in charge of the kitchen and has to my knowledge (and per the report) no medical training (with exception to her EXPIRED EMT certificate.  

"I keep getting the sense that there are a lot of people here who are really hostile to being adults. Don't know if you are one of them. But what I do know is that there is a serious negative death-energy that some teens get into--- and it is a blessing when there is a way for them to get out of it. "

I know TWO boys who are in GOOD therapeutic schools.  They have counseling daily, they have open parental contact, they have meds if they need them, they are cared for.  They sleep in beds, they are allowed to use the bathroom when needed, they are allowed to seek medical care when needed, and they are getting an education.
Maybe this is the same kind of place you are talking about.  I believe they exist.  I also understand about the kids/parents and these horrific programs as my child was at TLC, I sent him there, and THANK GOD we knew something was wrong and rescued him.  The stories are endless on what went on there, and after hearing my son and then talking to other kids and parents who we never met, who spanned the time since they opened to present and the stories were SO ALIKE that you could not deny that the kids were telling the truth- you gotta believe them.  Also, again, go back and read the last few posts of mine, you WILL SEE direct quotes from a letter I recevied from the Child Protective Services, if this doesn't open your eyes to the lack of authority they have in that state I don't know what will.  So, as I said in that previous post- send your child to a State where they have jurisdiction so that IF anything does "smell" you can do something about it.

[Antigen]

On 2005-05-10 19:25:00, Anonymous wrote:

"...but it doesn't get past the fact that therapeutic boarding schools (at least some of them) lead to good results with a lot of kids.



Maybe you don't think that this should happen--it maybe violates your sense of how things should be---but that's the reality--at least based on what I see.

No, I think that's your reality based on what you're told and what you choose to believe. In the more commonly accepted reality (i.e. that held by people who have actually been in these programs and those of us who have talked to a lot of these people) they do these violent and dangerous takedowns for trivial reasons, like daring to look an authority figure in they eye.

And yes, people can grow better and wiser at these schools---but, come on, that doesn't mean, as you try to set it up, that it was a horrific experience, like getting dropped off a cliff (why don't you drop the hysteria for God's sake)---maybe it was a confrontation and growth experience.

Or maybe it was torture and brainwashing.

Maybe, consider this,at least for some, it was even a great experience, with life-long friends, emotionally moving events, memorable self-confrontations, hey, why would you want to take that away from anyone, why would you want to pull this pompous BS about "Well, maybe in 5 or 10 or 15 years, you'll see I'm right"---how about just celebrating that someone who was off-course found a way to be better.

Because 1) I don't believe that very many kids benefit from torture and brainwashing. Maybe some tough it out and gain some character through adversity in spite of it. and 2) Even if you believe they save that proverbial "just one child", is it worth mindfucking or even killing another? I don't think it is.

I don't know exactly what happened to you, Synanon and all, but I have a sense that it wasn't what's what's going on in the schools I'm thinking about.  

Well, I was in Straight and we're talking about Thayer. Based on what people who have been there or who have sent their own children there have said, Thayer is, by far and away, a lot more physically brutal than Straight ever was.

Sure there's restraint of kids who are bent on self-destruction in the schools I'm talking about, and maybe hard work and emotionally painful passages---sorry if that offends you, sometimes kids need serious limits.

How do you equate looking someone in the eye w/ being bent on self destruction? Do you mean the kid ought to have figured out that he was surrounded by psychotic sadists and known better than to do something like that?  :roll:

I keep getting the sense that there are a lot of people here who are really hostile to being adults. Don't know if you are one of them. But what I do know is that there is a serious negative death-energy that some teens get into--- and it is a blessing when there is a way for them to get out of it.



"

I don't know where you get that impression. You're the one advocating these brutal practices which, all too often, lead to death and other very poor outcomes.

Faith is a cop-out. It is intellectual bankruptcy. If the only way you can accept an assertion is by faith, then you are conceding that it can't be taken on its own merits.
--Dan Barker, author and former evangelist

[tlcrescue]

and..btw...the restraints are not used only on "self destructive" kids.  as i have pointed out many times over, when my son entered the doors of thayer (we werent allowed in for the intake) and before the intake ever even started, they body slammed and restrained him for "looking the drill instructor in the eye".  

Please, HONESTLY, explain to me how that exhibits "self destructive" behavior.  My son was clueless.  He thought he was going to a boarding school.  He walked in, set his stuff down, stood up looked at the person standing in front of him (who happened to be a drill seargent) and then was body slammed and restrained for merely looking him in the eye.

WTF is wrong with that picture?

And people, this is just one example of how they misuse their position of power.  Denying children bathroom breaks so they are forced to soil themselves, then exercise in soiled clothes, leading to rashes on your body, etc.  What is wrong with that picture?

We SPECIFICALLY asked their procedures regarding restroom breaks because my son has a condition that requires him to urinate frequently.  Thayer was made aware of this.  Thayer was provided with documentation from his doctor for this, because I didn't want his frequent urination to be a problem.  Their response, oh sure, we give them a break every hour to use the restroom.  My son was given 2 restroom breaks in a 24 hour period, and this is on top of all the water they make you drink so you don't dehydrate after having exercised 14 hours plus a day!  Any NORMAL person can't hold that much water with only two restroom breaks, much less someone with urinary problems!

So you can tell me ALL DAY LONG that what they do is NOT intentional.  When you deny someone something as minor as a restroom break, that is done INTENTIONALLY.  When you force someone to lay in their on feces and have them washed off by a hose because they can't stand up, that is INTENTIONAL.  When you force any child to exercise upwards of 12 and 14 hours a day, that is INTENTIONAL.  BTW, they don't even bother to do so much as a physical to see if the child can handle it.  I think, at the very least, this should be a pre-requisite before bootcamp.

BTW...the "actual" cause of death was "rhambiomidyosis" (spelling?) secondary to spider bite....but, did you happen to know that another very cause of this disease, is also over exertion?  Hmm.....now, that couldn't be possible, could it?  Thayer doesnt really over exercise their kids do they?  I mean, any person, healthy or not, should be able to handle 14 hours of exercise, some days upwards of 18 hours...7 days a week!

Oh yea, I forgot, they "tell" you that you get Sunday's off...what a crock, Sunday is a special treat, you get to exercise in the SNOW during the wintertime, not even a jacket or gloves is provided either.  

You should also take a look at their "daily schedule" which shows approximately 4-6 hours of exercise a day...another crock!

Funny, every time I talked to my son's family rep on the phone, he was exercising, regardless of the time of day I called!  Some days I called multiple times and, yep, each time he was exercising.[ This Message was edited by: tlcrescue on 2005-05-11 12:40 ]

[Antigen]

"Also, a police report said scrapes on Roberto's knees, feet, toes, elbows and back indicated "that he had been dragged."

Nemo, do you think this is OK or do you think the police made a false report? Or do you allow that maybe they are beating hell out of these kids and maybe you have been lied to about how the Program really 'works'?

[1971 - 2001] the darkest chapter in Federal law enforcement history.
http://www.house.gov/reform/press/02.01.07.htm' target='_new'>Committee on Government Reform

[Antigen]

Funny, this definition NIH doesn't even mention insect bite as a likely cause or even risk factor for Rhabdomyolysis.  

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency ... 000473.htm

O senseless man, who cannot possibly make a worm and yet will make Gods by the dozen!
--Michel Eyqyem de Montaigne, French essayist

[BuzzKill]

This is very interesting Ginger.

Seems a good beating might result in this; or excessive exercise, even.

[Anonymous]

Now the medical authorities in Missouri are in on some big "conspiracy" along with Thayer?

I can't help it if some generalized internet resource didn't talk about spider bites as a cause of rhabdomyolysis---all you have to do is google the kid's name and "spider" and you get a bunch of news and other reports that this was the cause---based on autopsy and health department reports

From what I read, the people who criticize Thayer are talking about not recognizing the condition and getting it treated in time: this is at least a realistic point, a question of fact, as they call it in the law: and it needs to be considered.  

Sounds like it will be considered in the court case that the parents are bringing and if the school was negligent in missing the diagnosis they will pay dearly to the parents and in their reputation.

I don't see anybody (except maybe you people at this site) coming up with Thayer as a cause of the boy's condition

You know what though: I'm done with you---taking my own advice that I gave to Nemo---there's no intent of communication here, no interest in mutual understanding--just an unhealthy mix of paranoia, purposeful misunderstanding for whatever reasons, ignorance, and smart ass remarks

Just haven't got the time for it when there are parents who really want and need help.  That's where my energy is, not in meaningless negative debates

As always I'll be keeping an eye on reports of abuse at any school I might recommend---particularly if such reports comes from a  rational, believable source.

Might be a good idea to remember, just for future reference: not every tragic thing that happens, is a crime, negligence, or even reasonably forseeable: thinking otherwise is how the country went so sue-crazy and why tort reform is just around the corner

[The Liger]

People always the say the same thing when they're losing an argument.  "I'm done here.  You people clearly can't see how brilliant I am."

I've been watching this thread.  One side of the argument is researching what they say and making reasoned and rational arguments.  Those people are program veterans.  The other side keeps repeating, "But it helps some kids," and, "You're irrational," over and over again.  Those people are program rookies and bad-parent apologists.

Oh, and one more thing, tort reform is just around the corner because Bushie and his Republican cronies want to help out their insurance company and corporate friends, not because too many people are sue-happy.  That's just a stupid thing to say.

[Antigen]

On 2005-05-11 15:06:00, Anonymous wrote:

Sounds like it will be considered in the court case that the parents are bringing and if the school was negligent in missing the diagnosis they will pay dearly to the parents and in their reputation.

If this had happened in a private home instead of a WWASP program, how do you think the judge would take it if the parents pled ignorance. "Gee, your honor, we just didn't know he was sick. We thought he was just a lazy slob, laying there, hardly talking, not even getting up to use the toilet for days."

The question is what kind of environment has to be present in order for one kid after another to be so neglected? Shit, would you recomend sending a kid to Mark Wardle's "new" wilderness program? Long as Utah sells him a license I guess he's OK in your book, huh?

You just don't know what you're doing. You're entiteld to your fantasies. I just wish you'd open up a psychic hotline and leave the kids out of it. That way you can revel in and make big bucks off of your fantasies to your and your consensual adult patrons' hearts' content w/o harming any children.

... and the group leader was a clown.
http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?topic=742&forum=8#38785' target='_new'>GregFL

[tlcrescue]

Not setting aside that what happened to Reyes, have you even considered the allegations I have made regarding my son?  The boy who had his ankle fractured on day on 1, first 5 minutes in?  Or how about the fact that he IS ALIVE to tell me about being "dragged through teh showers".  He never met the Reyes boy, had never even heard of the allegations of this, yet he states it happened to him.

Coincidence?  I think not, I think it is a very plausible explanation for the various cuts/bruises my son had on his body when I picked him up.  Oh my, the Reyes boy had the same cuts/brusises?  What another coincidence.

[Anonymous]

I think it's the Shari-baby song:something like:

"But this morning tell her I give up,
 Tell her she wins if she'll just shut up.
 But it's the last time
 She's going to riding with me."

  Kinda like I feel about this forum.

[Antigen]

On 2005-05-13 17:53:00, Anonymous wrote:

Tell her she wins if she'll just shut up.

Are you asking for a gag order settlement?  :rofl:

Being a street cop, witnessing the tragedy firsthand, I've become
convinced that drug prohibition -- not drugs themselves -- are driving the HIV epidemic and the systemic crime that has swamped our criminal justice systems.
--Vancouver Police Const. Gil Puder

[Cptnemo]

Hi Ginger:

I hate to ruin your day, but I agree COMPLETELY with your comments regarding drug legalization.  All making drugs illegal does is finance a fast criminal class which uses drug money as the source of their wealth.

Just like prohibition created one criminal empire, the anti-drug laws are creating another.

Nemo

[Cptnemo]

Dear Friend:

By "kinda feel" about this forum, do you mean that you feel English is a foreign language to you.

Nemo

[tlcrescue]

are you the same cptnemo that is been posting anonymously but signing his posts "cptnemo"?  Just curious..because I am getting confused and would like to know who I am exchanging dialogue with, whether it is different people or the same people.