Author Topic: I am a parent looking for info. on RTC...Please help  (Read 4579 times)

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Offline Anonymous

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I am a parent looking for info. on RTC...Please help
« on: April 10, 2005, 01:31:00 AM »
Hi, I am a parent looking for information on different RTC programs. I have heard good things about New Haven & Island View. Have any of you had any experience with either of these?
I have read a lot of the posts & have a few questions...what does WWASP stand for?
what is CCM?....is anyone out there at all satisfied or pleased with an RTC they have been to?
We are in the beginning stages of deciding what we will do to keep our daughter safe & get her the help she needs. I am trying to find out all I can on this topic.
I understand many of you are angry & have experienced horrible abuse at the hands of awful people charading as healers. I am so sorry that you had to go through this pain.
I am just a mom trying to help my daughter...please don't berate me for thinking an RTC may be an option for us.
I would like to hear all experiences good & bad, so I can make an informed decision.
If you want to tell me about other RTC programs (other than New Haven & Island View), I would love to hear about them (good & bad).
Thank you so much for sharing your story with me.

A concerned mom
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Offline cherish wisdom

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« Reply #1 on: April 10, 2005, 02:11:00 AM »
I was in your shoes about a year ago. I made the decision after three therpists twisted my arm. My child was also in need of help - depression, suicide attempt.  I actually called New Haven and it sounded like a good place. It's in Utah if I'm correct. We chose Provo Canyon School in Orem Utah. It looked like a great place and they told us everything we wanted to hear. But it was not a good place.  Staff abused my daughter from day one.  She did not improve - they did not treat her for diagnosis - they did not follow the care plan.  We were able to rescue her after she tried to escape in fear of her life.  

After we heard from her and she described her abuse we both cried and realized that in 90 years of combined life we had never experienced such abuse.  She was only there for one month.  

New Haven and CCM all use the behavior modification used at Provo.  They are similar in many ways.  They are extremely punitive, they do not allow parental contact for at least a month or more. They allow infrequent phone contact - maybe twice a month if you are lucky. They censor mail going out. They will chastise you as a parent if you demand to talk to your child.

I'd suggest you go to http://www.isaccorp.com and look at the warning signs of an abusive facility.  Also look at the documents library there. Angela Smith has compiled a long list of abusive programs and this can be found at http://www.beyondbusiness.net

Do a complete internet search.  Also look at other options - like out patient care - where you still have custody.  Also look into independent study if peers are a problem.  Spend time with your child.  Go to therapy as a family.  Also AA or NA if there is addiction problems. If she doesn't go along with this - take her on a tour of a few facilities and then ask her what she prefers - being locked up or staying at home and playing by your rules.......

Be a parent - Most of the children in Residential programs have parents who work all of the time and finally relize there's a problem. Most come from broken homes and have a lot of anger. That needs to be addressed.  It takes a lot of time as a parent - but it is your responsibility. Take a family leave of absence (if you work) and spend the time necessary  to get a handle on the problem. There are too many abusive programs - so it is difficult to trust any of them.

I'd suggest you stay away from any program in Utah, Idaho, Montana - their are few if any regulations in place to protect your child and if you have a problem you will have a difficult time getting any type of recourse from the authorities.  

I don't think we're here for anything, we're just products of evolution. You can say 'Gee, your life must be pretty bleak if you don't think there's a purpose' but I'm anticipating a good lunch.
--Dr. James Watson, American biologist

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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #2 on: April 10, 2005, 02:28:00 AM »
Cherish Wisdom,
Thank you so much for your advice, warnings, & the links. I am so lost, I don't know what to do.
I am a stay at home mom, so I am with my daughter a lot.
Her uncle (my brother) committed suicide almost 2 years ago & she has sunk farther & farther into a black abyss. She is on medication & sees a therapist at least once a week (sometimes more), we do family counseling & have tried so hard to help her. She won't accept our help. She was hospitalized several months ago for suicidal ideation ( she stayed 2 weeks), she got out & with in 6 days was worse than before. She tried to jump out of a moving car on the express way. She was hospitalized again for 3 weeks.
She is a cutter & her cutting has been increasing in the past month, her school work is down the toilet (she was a good student before), her friends are as suicidal as she is, some are homicidal, she has a suicide pact with some boy she met in the hospital, etc, etc....
We don't know what to do. I had heard Utah was the "Gold Standard" for depressed kids. I am so glad you told me about your experience. I can't have my daughter traumatized anymore than she already has been.
I just don't know how to keep her safe & alive anymore.
Thanks again
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Offline nite owl

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« Reply #3 on: April 10, 2005, 05:45:00 AM »
These programs can be brutal - they are not for children with depression or other mental illness. You should consider taking her out of school and into an independent study program.  Also you didn't indicate if she was abusing substances - if it's alcohol that could make the depression much worse.  I can't believe that someone told you that Utah was the "gold standard."

You really need to get her away from the suicidal peers. I know that they are like a cult. They have death journals and all kinds of sick things that they do on the internet. Try to find out what she's doing online.  You need to get into the drivers seat to help her. These peers just feed off of one another.  If she goes to an RTC she will not have the computer, peer group, etc.  You can intervene in that area yourself as parent.  My child was also into cutting. Alcohol was part of the problem and AA really helped - getting her off of alcohol ( a depressant) was the key.  You need to find out what (if any) substances she is abusing. Sometimes it's hard to find out. Sometimes these depressed kids do a lot of self medication which makes the problem worse.  Get a few random drug screens done on her. Sometimes the medication can make the depression worse.  Many have had suicidal ideation as a result of the medication.  If it's not getting better then the medication could be part of the problem.

I'd strongly discourage you from sending her to any program in the state of Utah - too many are abusive.  If you are in California - UCLA has a good program - the children still have their freedom - can take and make phone calls and have visitors - but they get a lot of counseling and are in a controlled environment.  I've also heard good things about Del Amo in Carson California.  Similar to UCLA.  

The largest red flag that indicates an abusive program is when they limit parent/child contact.  Also if they prohibit phone communication and practice behavior modification.  

A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

[ This Message was edited by: nite owl on 2005-04-10 02:53 ]
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Offline nite owl

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« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2005, 06:13:00 AM »
Here's something on New Haven - also Island View and CCM also have been reported as being abusive facilities:

 

New Haven Residential Treatment Center is located in Provo, UT and is highly suspected of being an abusive behavior modification program.  They use a level system (the rules of the program can be viewed by clicking on the underlined title as of 3/19/04) which is custom in abusive behavior modification programs.  They also claim that Oppositional Defiance Disorder is something they treat at their facility.  Oppositional Defiance Disorder is currently being removed from the American Medical Association and American Psychiatric Association terminology resources because qualified, respected doctors in the fields of medicine and psychiatry have decided it is a fallacious ?disease? founded on the same nonsense as hysteria (once defined as a woman?s disease caused by hormonal imbalance and no longer accepted or respected).  Another red flag for this program is the description of the orientation/level 1/Safety level of their program.  They claim on level one that the student is not trusted at all and that she is watched 24 hours a day, even while going to the bathroom and showering.  Many of these young women have been raped or abused and watching them in vulnerable positions such as sleeping, bathing, and going to the bathroom can spark post-traumatic stress in them.  Such treatment is counter-productive to true therapy and this program from the onset violates the rights of the students involved.  We highly recommend you do not send your child to this institution.  If you have been abused or had your rights violated by New Haven, please contact us and we will post your story here as a warning to others

Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
-- John F. Kennedy (1917-63), U.S. Democratic politician, president. Speech, 13 March 1962, the White House.

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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2005, 10:48:00 AM »
The kind of RTC you will find doing internet searches; which you pay out of pocket for; and so which you imagine will be superior to what your state or insurance will pay for; are very likely to be the very worst kind of places you could send her.

I'd advise educating yourself on her mental illness and searching out Therapist knowledgeable in the treatment of it. They are often difficult to find but are absolutely necessary.

You might be right in that an RTC would help - but given your daughters issues - it MUST be close enough to home for frequent visits, and you MUST visit frequently.

You might need to think about filing a beyond control petition if you feel you can't keep her safe at home; and if you do; you will need to be very proactive and persistent - and know this - the state and the schools will LIE to you! You Must get in touch with a educational advocate - most special education departments will have them. Call your state capital and ask about a special education advocate.

Some examples of the lies they will tell you; you will have to give up custody, which they frame as giving up all contact or say about her care. They will tell you you'll be charged with child abandonment. All kinds of things to try and intimidate you from seeking out the services that you and your daughter are entitled too by Federal law.

One other way parents in you situation often fast track getting help and services from the state; they refuse to accept her dis charge from the hospital; often insisting that the physician (and not some lackey - the Doc in charge)sign a pre prepared document declaring his assurance the patient is not a threat to themselves or others; before you will accept her discharge.

They will once again threaten you with al kinds of horrible consequences. You probably will end up in court. But IF you can document all you have tried to keep her safe; and how often she has been a danger to herself - you will be fine and the state will be forced to step in and provide her with appropriate care.

Yes, you might need an attorney - but maybe not. Depends on many things. But even if you do - it won't cost you near what these out of pocket hell holes cost; and you'll end up with a far greater possibility of qualified care - And in the unfortunate situation where the doc or staff are quacks or sadist you will have recourse. They are under the authority of various governing boards and state agencies. Not so with these Private out of pocket Programs. Not so at all. This alone is reason enough to avoid them at al cost.

The thing here is, if you are telling the truth, you daughter has a serious mental disorder and needs quality professional care - not some once upon a time gas pumping, "I don't need an education to help troubled kids" Program pimp.

Getting her the level of professionalism and care she needs will be hard work - time consuming and stressful - but you MUST do it!

Might want to start with a few of these:

http://www.mhsanctuary.com/borderline/

http://bpdcentral.org/

 Post URL: http://fornits.com/wwf/viewtopic.php?to ... m=22#92974
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Offline Timoclea

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« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2005, 10:57:00 AM »
Quote
On 2005-04-09 23:28:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Cherish Wisdom,

Thank you so much for your advice, warnings, & the links. I am so lost, I don't know what to do.

I am a stay at home mom, so I am with my daughter a lot.

Her uncle (my brother) committed suicide almost 2 years ago & she has sunk farther & farther into a black abyss. She is on medication & sees a therapist at least once a week (sometimes more), we do family counseling & have tried so hard to help her. She won't accept our help. She was hospitalized several months ago for suicidal ideation ( she stayed 2 weeks), she got out & with in 6 days was worse than before. She tried to jump out of a moving car on the express way. She was hospitalized again for 3 weeks.

She is a cutter & her cutting has been increasing in the past month, her school work is down the toilet (she was a good student before), her friends are as suicidal as she is, some are homicidal, she has a suicide pact with some boy she met in the hospital, etc, etc....

We don't know what to do. I had heard Utah was the "Gold Standard" for depressed kids. I am so glad you told me about your experience. I can't have my daughter traumatized anymore than she already has been.

I just don't know how to keep her safe & alive anymore.

Thanks again"


Hi, I'm Julie---Timoclea here, and BlueWillow on CABF.

I have bipolar disorder (used to be called manic depression--has a 20% lifetime risk of death by suicide if untreated) and have 9 year old daughter with bipolar disorder.

Look up the treatment facility section on Children and Adolescent Bipolar Foundation (CABF) community center message boards online.

Most of these parents have had children hospitalized seven or eight times before they decided they had no choice but to use an RTC, so they're not your standard "Program Parent" zombies sending their kid off for being sexually active, getting a few bad grades, and smoking a couple of joints (not to say that behavior is at all okay, just that normal responsible parenting is the answer for it---even if it doesn't completely stop it).

*Your* child is an imminent danger to self, needs hospitalization, and the short conventional hospitalizations aren't working.  That's a different ball of wax.  Even if she was thirty, if she was like this you could go to a judge and get an involuntary commitment order.  It sounds like your child really does need residential treatment---she just needs *good* residential treatment.  I commend you for making sure you're thoroughly checking out any institution you consider instead of believing their marketing literature and their parent testimonials.

What I would recommend is that you go read the parent testimonials on CABF (not solicited by any of the schools) and then cross-reference the schools with any survivor report information on ISAC or here.

Stay away from anyplace run by or in any way associated with WWASPS (World Wide Association of Specialty Schools).

What *I* would look for if I was somehow my parent of me as a teenager and was having to hospitalize *me*---I'd look for a facility that was recommended by CABF parents but the Fornits survivors had never heard of, that had been in business a long time, that was licensed by the state it was in.  And I'd verify the licensing by calling the state agency responsible for licensing---because programs that defraud parents lie a lot.

I'd avoid Utah, Idaho, or Montana.  And if it was a program with religious overtones, I'd avoid Missouri.  Actually, for a suicidal kid I'd stay completely away from the religious programs no matter how religious you are.  People too inclined to substitute faith for therapy are not who you want caring for a child with a serious brain disorder.

What's probably happened with your daughter is she has a genetic predisposition to this illness (even if it doesn't show up in other family, the vagaries of genetics are such that she could have gotten a double dose of some recessives) and the death of her uncle triggered it.

The bad news is that once triggered, it's usually triggered for life.  The good news is that it's highly treatable and it usually just takes a lot of trial and error for the doctors to find the right medication, or medication combination, or dosage out of many, many available.  Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT) also has a good track record of helping a lot of people long term.  People's reactions to medications are highly individual, and trial and error is unfortunately the only way the psychiatrists have right now of finding which one or ones work best for a particular patient.

Pay close attention to ISAC's list of warning signs of an abusive treatment facility.  In particular, do not choose any facility that tries to limit your contact with your daughter or implies that you shouldn't phone your daughter every day if you want to, or that won't make a phone available for her to call you.  If they try to suggest she has to "earn" a phone call home, or that she has to "complete" certain parts of the program before "being ready" for a phone call home, avoid that facility like the plague.

Reputable treatment facilities for mentally ill children will not try to limit your phone contact with your daughter.  Neither will they stop your daughter's mail to or from other people unless those letters contain suicidal talk, suicide pacts, psychotic delusions, or other things directly injurious to your daughter's mental health.  They'll also probably be willing to keep any stopped mail in a file for you to pick up or examine, or forward it to you periodically---they won't set themselves up to throw letters in or out away, they'll just intercept them if they're directly harmful to your daughter's mental health---not her "progress in the program."

Check the credentials of their treatment professionals.  Their psychiatrist should be easy enough to check as pdocs are MDs.  Check how often their psychiatrist is actually present at the facility.  Obviously, more is better on that.

Don't put your daughter anyplace that accepts juvenile delinquents who aren't mentally ill.  If you have to, get a friend to call and pose as a parent of same looking for a facility and see how they react.  The National Institutes for Mental Health (NIMH) has specifically warned that RTC's that place mentally ill children alongside juvenile delinquents do more harm than good.

One of the reasons to watch out so hard to avoid the one-size-fits-all behavior modification programs that take juvenile delinquents is that many of those take a "you can't make an omelette without breaking a few eggs" approach to "troubled teens" and shrug off the teens who suicide after getting home as the eggs you have to break to make the omelette.  Which is appalling anyway, but *especially* horrific if you're looking for help for a mentally ill child to get her stable because suicide is exactly what you're afraid of.

So anyway, that's my best advice.

If you want to talk to me more privately, you can send me a Private Message on here.

Timoclea

Homeschool is self regulating. The school board is not going to have illiterate useless people living in their homes forever if they don't have a working education policy.

--Sisterbluerose

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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2005, 10:59:00 AM »
PS:
Very Important!

Get and keep safe, complete copies of her medical files. Of special interest all evaluations, tests results and discharge summaries.
You want these for every hospitalization and from any prescribing doctor; as well as her complete school records. You want a copy of every write up and discipline report as well as any testing results.

You may need to file for disability some day; and you will need all this - and if you end up filing a beyond control; or in any way wrangling with your state to provide her with an education and therapy - you will need all this.
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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2005, 11:05:00 AM »
about this:
I'd avoid Utah, Idaho, or Montana. And if it was a program with religious overtones, I'd avoid Missouri. Actually, for a suicidal kid I'd stay completely away from the religious programs no matter how religious you are. People too inclined to substitute faith for therapy are not who you want caring for a child with a serious brain disorder.


Yes, Yes - I now what you mean - However - if her state is like Ky - the state contracts with various Faith operated treatment facilities and some of them are excellent. The Catholics and the Presbyterians have some excellent RTC situations for just such troubled children.
However - sadly - the Baptist homes smell of urine and at least one had a concrete room with a drain in the floor they locked kids up in - So I'd avoid the Baptist.
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2005, 11:15:00 AM »
BuzzKill & Nite Owl,
Thank you so much for your advice & the links you provided. I can't beleive what I am reading on this site. I am shocked at the amount of abuse suffered by these kids at the hands of these so called hospitals.
I belong to an on line support group for parents of BPD kids & most of the parents on that site can't sing the praises loud enough for Utah & how the various RTC programs have "saved" their children from themselves.
Like I said in an earlier post, I am so lost in this whole process. I am doubting my every move, especially now that I have found this site.
I had gone to many RTC web pages, requested info. & was seriously considering placing my daughter. (I was also considering CEDU...not Now!!!) They all present so beautifully. They tell you exactly what you want to hear..."We will save your child & send her back to you just as she was before all this started", they are selling false hope.

Nite Owl, you had mentioned substance abuse. We have had our daughter tested at the doctor's office on 2 occassions & the inpatient acute hospital tested her regularly. She is not abusing or using anything. We are thankful for that.

I am educating myself daily on her mental illness, which is no small feat...Major depression with psychosis, BPD traits, schizophrenic symptoms, GAD, & ODD traits (I know this is being removed from DSM criteria).
We live in KY, so any info. anyone has on current research on these MI, or KY treatment would be greatly appreciated.

Thank you so much...you have saved my family from the biggest mistake we could have ever made....Thank you, Thank you, Thank you
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Offline Anonymous

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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2005, 11:46:00 AM »
Timoclea,
You have given me so much to work with & so much to think about. Thank you so much.
I will check out the links you provided.
I would have never thought to have all of her records here with me. I would have run around collecting them as needed if the situation arose.

Buzz Kill,
You made a reference to KY...are you in KY?
We are, & I don't know where to look for help, other than the big 2...Caritas & TB.

Thanks again
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Offline Troll Control

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« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2005, 12:19:00 PM »
You know, I cringe every time I see a parent on here looking for advice regarding BM "schools."

Occasionally I am relieved and thankful that some poor kid out there has a thoughtful and caring parent doing their homework before sentencing their child to an abusive gulag.

Thanks for thinking, lady...
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Offline BuzzKill

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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2005, 01:24:00 PM »
I personally have as very low opinion of both Caritas and Ten Brook (if this is what you mean by TB) Baptist East has a good psyche ward. . . But you might want to look into MaryHurst and Bell Academy. Bell Academy might be just the thing if your daughter doesn't act out to aggressively.  They have several types of programs and one or another might work out well for you. They are one of the very few that actually will take a private placement (where you as the parent are the placing person, as opposed to the state) Most of the RTC's in KY take private placement in theory. They will allow you to apply and tell you your on the waiting list - but you'll never be called - because - "why would they take your child for 300 a month, when they can take state placed children for 3000 a month?"
Which is why you may need to prepare yourself to force Ky to do the right thing.
What I said about being lied to - count on it. This is why you must educate yourself as to what your rights are under Federal Law.

PS,
in Ky, by state law, you are entitled to one free copy of your (or your minor child's)medical records. If they suggest chargeing you, remind them of this.

[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-04-10 10:28 ]
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Offline ehm

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« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2005, 01:33:00 PM »
There is an overwhelming amount of information on programs and methods to avoid on this site as well.

http://www.nospank.net/boot.htm
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Offline Timoclea

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« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2005, 02:32:00 PM »
Quote
On 2005-04-10 10:24:00, BuzzKill wrote:

"I personally have as very low opinion of both Caritas and Ten Brook (if this is what you mean by TB) Baptist East has a good psyche ward. . . But you might want to look into MaryHurst and Bell Academy. Bell Academy might be just the thing if your daughter doesn't act out to aggressively.  They have several types of programs and one or another might work out well for you. They are one of the very few that actually will take a private placement (where you as the parent are the placing person, as opposed to the state) Most of the RTC's in KY take private placement in theory. They will allow you to apply and tell you your on the waiting list - but you'll never be called - because - "why would they take your child for 300 a month, when they can take state placed children for 3000 a month?"

Which is why you may need to prepare yourself to force Ky to do the right thing.

What I said about being lied to - count on it. This is why you must educate yourself as to what your rights are under Federal Law.



PS,

in Ky, by state law, you are entitled to one free copy of your (or your minor child's)medical records. If they suggest chargeing you, remind them of this.



[ This Message was edited by: BuzzKill on 2005-04-10 10:28 ]"


Oh, one of the things you might want to do, parent, is sign up for CABF's online course that starts in May on Advocating for your child.

Your child's mental illness probably qualifies as a disability under section 504 and maybe IDEA.

If so, you can use the law to document and possibly get your school district to pay for your child's admission to a boarding school RTC.

So the thing about the better facilities in your state not taking private placement but taking state placement, what you might want to do if one of the places is the place that's best for your daughter is document and use disability law so that you do get the placement that gets you kid in.

The trick is your child, even though disabled, is entitled under federal law to a Free, Appropriate Public Education (FAPE).  If the school can't provide it--since your daughter is suicidal and needs to be in longer term care than a brief hospitalization to get stabilized---the school district has to provide (read: pay for) a FAPE where she is.  But to get them to actually do it, you have to jump through the right paperwork hoops.

Best of luck.  I was a dangerously suicidal teen and young adult, and one out of five teens/young adults like me didn't make it.  I hope you find quality, appropriate care for your daughter.  That's without treatment, since the treatment I got was not the kind that's effective and I wasn't correctly diagnosed.  They knew a lot less then than they know now.

You have already cut your daughter's risk of suicide in half by getting her treatment on an ongoing basis.  She now has an 89% lifetime chance of making it just fine.  I know you're terribly frightened right now, but try to realize you've been doing the right things and by doing so, you've cut her risk a lot and the odds of her coming through okay are very, very good.

When you hear people on here castigating parents for putting their children in programs for trivial or inappropriate reasons, we don't mean you.

Timoclea

Never let your sense of
    morals get in the way of
    doing what's right
--Isaac Asimov

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