Parents, please consider this

[Anonymous]

She also said she went on talk shows and promoted the program after she left the program.

[Antigen]

She also said it wasn't really a choice. I get that completely. I can't tell you how depressed I was and how hard it was to hide it when staff at Straight "offered" me a chance to go on staff. You couldn't turn it down because that would be showing a bad attitude to the Program and not being willing to give back to the group. So I did the thing, went to the pretraining classes, wrote in the special pretrainee obs book and all that. But it wasn't really a choice at all. The alternative being a very risky venture.

If they had chosen me for a speaking engagement, I would have done that too.

Everything in moderation, including moderation.
Anonymity Anonymous
Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the leather straps.

[Anonymous]

Did you have to go on staf while in the program?

I think everything in life is a choice. Now the alternative to not making the choice they want you to is lame. But in all reality everything you do is a coice. Her saying going on the talk shows and all that jazz wasnt a choice is not completely accurate.

I know it sounds like CCM is similar to other WWASP programs if oyu look at her testimony. But since Ive been on this forum, I have been in contact wiht at least 5 grads and one non grad who I have posed the questions you have asked me and they all agree that the program is not evil, it wsa not brainwashing and it is not abusive. They have all been out at least 3-5 years, so theres 5 testimonies, including mine, that state the oppisite. Now Im not even trying to imply that CCM is the answer to everyones prayers or something. As Ive said before i can think of things they need reform on, things that would make the program more effective. My Moms ex boyfriend (who was a drug and alcohol counslor and was the person who helped my parents look for a program for me) and I have talked in the past abuot the strenghts and weaknesses of teh program and were even trying to figure out a way to improve on teh program and start one of our own that we felt woudl be more beneficial. I extremely dislike him now and am not considering that anymore, but I think there can be changes to help it be more assisting to kids. One of the things that I think would help woudl be a better way to transition a kid into real life outside the program. I think even as beneficial as the program was to me, it was hard to transition to real life in some ways. So they could deffinetly improve on that.
Amanda

"We may not ever understand why we suffer or be able to control the forces that cause us suffering, but we can have alot to say about what suffering does to us, and what sort of people we become because of it."
-Harold S Kushner

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-16 11:01:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Did you have to go on staf while in the program?

Only if Sr. staff tapped you for it. You could be a staff trainee until graduation, but you had to be a graduate to move on to Jr. staff. I was only in pretraining when I split for the last time.

I think everything in life is a choice. Now the alternative to not making the choice they want you to is lame. But in all reality everything you do is a coice. Her saying going on the talk shows and all that jazz wasnt a choice is not completely accurate.

Right, but the PR assholes don't disclose that background information. I'm sure that kcadams1980 wasn't really free to divulge the reasons why she "chose" to go work for free as WWASP's PR girl on that national show. Not any more than Ken Kay ever divulges the circumstances under which the parents write all those letters of gratitude. He won't tell anybody that his seminar facilitators instruct the parents to write them or that graduating the seminars, homework and all, is a precondition to being allowed any contact w/ their own children. Sure, it's a "choice" but they've got the parents convinced that their child's very life depends on their 100% unquestioning support of the Program; "trust the process".

It's deceptive as hell.

I know it sounds like CCM is similar to other WWASP programs if oyu look at her testimony. But since Ive been on this forum, I have been in contact wiht at least 5 grads and one non grad who I have posed the questions you have asked me and they all agree that the program is not evil, it wsa not brainwashing and it is not abusive. They have all been out at least 3-5 years, so theres 5 testimonies, including mine, that state the oppisite.

5 out of how many? Even if you only count the girls who were there at the same time as you were, that's not a very impressive contingencey.

I find kcadams1980's story especially compelling because I understand it. She's not saying she's afraid of getting sent to TB. If you read all of her posts (there are only 7, I think) she talks about sweating out how her parents might react if she went on the SJR show to recant her former advocacy of the Program.

That's some pretty heavy shit, believe me! I did it a little differently. I just decided that my family wasn't worth quite that much trouble. And I still feel that way, over 20 years later. But it does suck BIG time. My kids barely know their cousins or 5 aunts and uncles (plus spouses). The few times I've tried attending family events, it's been torture. For the longest time, I thought it must be my imagination, that I was just paranoid or overly sensitive. But then my husband came on the scene and he saw it too.

They all are either involved in AA or just suck it up and pretend the Program saved their lives. Those are the terms. Since I can't or won't do that, I don't get to be a full fledged member of the family. I'm fair game for a good fuckin' wrt business dealings and open ridicule otherwise.

Sure, it's a choice. I could eat shit and beg for affection from those assholes or I can have my dignity and just not associate w/ them. But I never had any choice in the matter of my family joining that cult in the first place. I was only about 6 years old when it happened.

How would your parents respond if you told them the Program was full of shit and didn't help you? Not saying that you secretly feel that way. You say you honestly believe in it and I take your word for it. But what if?

Vain are the thousand creeds that move men's hearts, unutterably vain, worthless as wither'd weeds.
--Emily Bronte

[Anonymous]

Ginger,
Can you explain the staff thing a little more. After you graduated, they expected you to stay on as a staff memeber? Was that a requirement? Did all the kids have to become staff trainees to graduate?

I wish we could hear from her to clear it up. Will you give more info on Ken Kay? I am sorry. I am not very educated in WWASP or associates. I only know about CCM. What are the letters of gratitude about? Did he make parents write them or something? I know the parents had to complete Discovery to go through PC1 and 2. I know my parents were not 100% about the program. They just knew it was helping me and so they kept me in it.

I graduated with 8 other girls if I remember correctly. We didnt have big graduating classes. I only talk still to those I mentioned. I remember speaking to several others a while ago, but never posed these questions because I wasnt on this forum at the time. I would have to find more to let you know. A few of the girls I dont talk to anymore I knwo werent doign well, but I do recall they dont blame the program for that.

TB? Tanquility Bay?

Perhaps the reason I did well outside the program also had to do with the fact that I turned 18 3 days before i graduated. It helped me feel i was doing well for me, not just out of fear of gettign sent back to the program if I did "bad". But i know that 4 out of those 5 girls I was speaking of earlier were under 18 after graduation.

Well certainly it woudl be hard to recant her mantra after so long. People may feel shes being dishonest and her parents might feel the same way. I feel if she feels that way then she shoudl do what feels right to her. But since I feel it helped me and others, it is hard for me to hear someone bad mouth it so to speak. I am not an advocate of the program, but I feel it can help. I just feel like when someone starts saying, oh its horible, it should have never existed, I start to get a little emotional about it cuz it seems they dont even care about those it did help. Just those it didnt. Was my happiness and my reconcilliation with my self esteem not worth it? I feel I was worth it.

Is your family totally program nuts? Are they resentful of you not accepting the program or something? Do they feel you are unhelthy or unsafe because of not advocating the program 20 years later? I think thats pretty stupid. I can see now more reasons why you hate it. Plus the AA thing. Some people are deffinetly ignorant and self righteous. I cant believe htey woudl treat you like that just because of an opinion. Sounds like your family (no offense) is just being pretty closed minded. Luckily my family is not an advocate of rehabs, AA, ect. They think they help and can see how it helped me, but other than that, they dont care. My Mom and her new husband are spiritual peopel and go on trips to Mexico to see the Myan ruins and temples and go on spiritual quests, believe in alternative methods of drugs (like natural remidies instead of what a drug company would give you) and are very well rouded. They agree that looking for many differetn methods of self improvement is important for spiritual and mental growth and oyu shouldnt limit yourself to just one way. your family is in a cult?

They would ask me why I felt that way. They woudl explore it wiht me and respect my opinion. they might feel a little sad abou tthe wasted money, but i dont know cuz I dont feel that way. Oh trust me buddy. I deffinetly dotn think the program is right in everything. The principals are helpful, therapy was helpful, I liked some of teh seminars, but even then they could use improvement. I think they should ALWAYS be looking at ways to improve the program to better help the girls there. It si folly to think that something will work the same way forever. Things about it are right on, and the things that arent, need adjusting or replacement.

Amanda
"Truth can never be told so as to be understood, and not be believed."
W. Blake

[Antigen]

On 2005-04-16 16:30:00, Anonymous wrote:

"Ginger,

Can you explain the staff thing a little more. After you graduated, they expected you to stay on as a staff memeber? Was that a requirement? Did all the kids have to become staff trainees to graduate?

No, all the group staff were graduates. But there were only around a dozen or so staff at a time when group was around 50 kids or so. God only knows how they made their decisions, but Sr. staff would hand pick the people they wanted to go on staff.

I wish we could hear from her to clear it up.

Me too.

Will you give more info on Ken Kay? I am sorry. I am not very educated in WWASP or associates. I only know about CCM. What are the letters of gratitude about? Did he make parents write them or something? I know the parents had to complete Discovery to go through PC1 and 2. I know my parents were not 100% about the program. They just knew it was helping me and so they kept me in it.

Oh my! Well, if you don't know anything about Ken Kay, then you really are in the dark wrt advocating for any WWASP program. That's not meant to be snide at all. I never knew, or had any interest in, the behind the scenes side of Straight till just a few years ago when I realized they hadn't really been shut down at all.

Just google Ken Kay WWASP for some info.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=ken+kay+wwasp

As president of WWASP, it falls to Ken Kay to defend the corporation every time there's an investigation, program closing, riot or any other bad publicity. And he's fond pointing to the thousands of letters of gratitude written by parents (who haven't been allowed to see their kids yet). But they're not spontanious letters, they're assignments given to the parents during the seminars.

I graduated with 8 other girls if I remember correctly. We didnt have big graduating classes. I only talk still to those I mentioned. I remember speaking to several others a while ago, but never posed these questions because I wasnt on this forum at the time. I would have to find more to let you know. A few of the girls I dont talk to anymore I knwo werent doign well, but I do recall they dont blame the program for that.

I never blamed the program when I was having a hard time in life either. I blamed my mother, still do, for trying everything she could think of to "help" me find my "bottom" so I'd come crawling back and complete an inpatient 12 step program. But I didn't let that stop me, either. I just accepted the fact that, like so many other people on this planet, I had a fucked up family that I couldn't count on. So I just never did expect anything from them and so saved myself a lot of dissapointment, I think.

I do, however, think we would have been far better off w/o the Program. I don't think it would ever have occured to my mother to disown her own kids otherwise. Maybe it would have been worse, who knows? But I don't think so.
 

TB? Tanquility Bay?

Yup.

I just feel like when someone starts saying, oh its horible, it should have never existed, I start to get a little emotional about it cuz it seems they dont even care about those it did help. Just those it didnt. Was my happiness and my reconcilliation with my self esteem not worth it? I feel I was worth it.

To someone who lost their parents' affection, support and respect to the program? Sorry, no, your happiness was not worth it to them. And I hope you can understand why people get so damned angry over your advocacy, your insistance that there was no abuse when they were abused and you must have seen it. I get that. It took me awhile to understand, but I really have experienced it myself. When I first got out of Straight, I couldn't say that I had been abused or even seen any abuse at all.

My perception was that everybody who got restrained, humiliated and otherwise treated roughly should have done what I did and just complied. I thought the Program was tough, strict and all that, but not abusive. But then I had litterally put out of my mind and was unable to recall things like when they forced a girl to have an abortion and then made her stand up at open meeting, apologize to staff and her parents for making them do that and then thank them for making her get the "help" she needed.

Things like that came to seem normal and perfectly reasonable. That's the mindfuck. That's brainwashing. When your actual perceptions and beliefs are changed in ways that you never would have intended and you don't even notice it happening.

Is your family totally program nuts?

YES! And it goes way back. My grandpa was one of the original Oxford steppers. He wasn't even religious or anything, as I recall. It was just like a social club for drunken failed business men. He carved himself out a pretty cozy retirement on his AA buddies business deals.

Are they resentful of you not accepting the program or something? Do they feel you are unhelthy or unsafe because of not advocating the program 20 years later? I think thats pretty stupid. I can see now more reasons why you hate it. Plus the AA thing.

Resentful? No, I wouldn't put it that way. It works like this. I have a brother who's probably a little schizophrenic. I mean that litterally. Not that he's ever been diagnosed, to the best of my knowledge. But, based on what I know about the disorder, it certainly fits. Whenever he goes into a tailspin (which is every couple of years or so) he gets drunk. Then he goes to AA, blames the beer for all his asshole behavior, then he's in like Flynn w/ the family again. Doesn't matter how much money he cons out of them or how much damage he does, he's good and welcome and has a line in on as much help and support as he needs BECAUSE he blames the beer and does the AA ritual.

Me? Different story. When my husband had kidney problem, they all assumed it was hep c from IV drugs. Never mind that neither one of us has ever done IV drugs or been addicted to anything but tobacco. Even my sister, the nurse, refused to believe me when I read the diagnosis out of his medical record. Because I split the program, the only possible truth in their minds is that I and anyone I associate with are a bunch of hardcore dope fiends. If things go well for me, they think I'm making it up. If anything goes wrong for any reason, well it's obviously all the drugs (that I don't do  :roll: )

I know that WWASP encourages exactly the same mindset. The evidence of it is pretty easy to find. Maybe your parents never bought in to the degree that some people do. That's good to hear! But it's calloused and a bit cold hearted for you to assume that it just doesn't happen in WWASP.

Have you read about Corey Murphy?
http://www.denver-rmn.com/desperate/sit ... esp1.shtml

Basically, his mother threatened to put him back in WWASP when he didn't meet her (whack!) expectations, and so he shot himself in the head right in front of her. Her take on it?

"Despite the tragic outcome, Laura says that Teen Help was a godsend. Without it, she says, Corey might have died years earlier."

your family is in a cult?

The Program is a cult. You may not realize that yet, but it really is.

Revelation indeed had no weight with me.
--Benjamin Franklin, American Founding Father, author, and inventor

[Antigen]

BTW, who's this charming looking dude?

A man is accepted into a church for what he believes and he is turned out for what he knows.
--Samuel Clemens "Mark Twain", American author and humorist

[Antigen]

Here's a choice quote from Ken Kay

"Other criticism of the organization came earlier this year from a company executive shortly after he temporarily left its staff.

"These people are basically a bunch of untrained people who work for this organization," Ken Kay told the Denver Rocky Mountain News in an interview before he rejoined Teen Help as a vice president. "So they don't have credentials of any kind. ...

"We could be leading these kids to long-term problems that we don't have a clue about because we're not going about it in the proper way. ...

"How in the hell can you call yourself a behavior modification program -- and that's one of the ways it's marketed -- when nobody has the expertise to determine: Is this good, is this bad?"

http://www.denver-rmn.com/desperate/sit ... rate.shtml

That's the most damning evidence I know of. I can easily forgive misguided zealots who thoroughly believe that what they're doing is right. But this SOB knows the truth and lies like a cheap rug for the $$$$ and glory of it.

Religion is based . . . mainly on fear . . . fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death. Fear is the parent of cruelty, and therefore it is no wonder if cruelty and religion have gone hand in hand. . . . My own view on religion is that of Lucretius. I regard it as a disease born of fear and as a source of untold misery to the human race.
--Bertrand Russell, British philosopher, educator, mathemetician, and social critic

[Anonymous]

What is wrt?

Its like this. I support the things about the program that are helpful, that arent ridiculus or irrelevent. I think the things I learned there were helpful for sure. Now as Ive said the program is not perfect. Perhaps something similar with a different leader who really cared abou the kids, not the dough woudl suffice. I am truly saddened by the fact that the owner Ken Kay sucks so bad. I am a strong believer in the goddness in people, in the bright side of life. I see so much hate and negativity, so much killing and dying in vain and starvation and all that in the world and I just have to believe that there is good in the world. Knowing what Ken is about puts a new perspective to it. Its like he is this greedy man who is trying to make a buck instead of someone who really wants to help the kids. I cant in my heart honsetly say I can support a man like that. And since CCM is a program run by his rules and his intentions, I guess I can say i cant really support that either. I can say, however that your program was deffinetly different than mine. I can say I leraned from it. I can say I am a better person because of who I became when I went to the program. I am not going to say that the program is in its entirety, a bad thing. It has many redeeming qualities that make me feel it has a shred of truth somewhere. Now seeign the dark side of the politics of the program, i can say it is deffinetly corrupt. But ginger, I feel my life was worth it. I feel the program I went to had tools in uit that anyone could have bennifited from. I can say it was not abusive. I can say it was not brainwashing. I am in most disagreement wiht the hypocrisy ive seen form the directors. I am in disagreement wiht the intentions of the programs that are physically and mentally abusive. But I know mine wasnt. I hate that something that has such a potential to be a great hing, is being corrupted by ill intentioned twits.

OYu mean someone who lost affection support and respect for their parents because of the program?

Ginger it wasnt just my happiness. To say that is pretty harsh. Do you know what my life was like before the program? Have you ever felt that emptiness that overcomes your soul and your mind when your depressed? Have oyu ever felt like everyone around you hates you, is judging you, is only your friend so they can use you? Have you ever felt so unhappy that it seems you are close to tears but your body wont let you cry? Have you ever felt you were less of a person than anyone else? That you wouldnt be afraid of someone sticking a gun in your face because it woudl seem like sweet relief to die? Well, if you have imagine feeling that for 4 years. You woudl be so righteous to say my feeling better about myself was not worth it? I really respect you and I like what you have to say. Youve helped me see more clearly about the program in general. But I can say I feel hurt and a little like what is the point of continuing this because oyu basically said my life was not worth anything. I mean you said its not worht it because of the people it hurt, so yeah. Because lets face it you are someone whose lost your parents affection, support and respect due to the program. So you mean you feel I am not worth it. Well, if anything it inspires me to make my life so worth it and to use my every ability to create good in this world, and hey maybe even some day benefit your life if I get into helping the environment or politics. I never said abuse dosnt happen. I see it does. but in mine it didnt. my perceptions have always been changing. My beliefs have always been changing. They always do. name one person who has kept all their beliefs and perceptions the same their entire lives. Wiht new information, comes new perceptions. Now if the perceptions seem right to me, i accept them. But I weigh it out from both angles. If one thing feels right, I choose to accept that, if not, then no. I had information thrown at me in the program. Not all of it felt right on in my heart, and I dotn choose to use it in my life. But alot of it felt righ tto me and therefore I still believe it. I still choose to use it.

And lastly but not least, A cult is a religious thing. The dictionary defines it as

1) a particular system of religious worship.

2) a group devoted to a person, fad, ect.

3) a religion considered to be false or extremeist.

4) attracting a small group of devotees.

I dont feel CCM was similar to any of those definitions.

I can say one thing. CCM has the right idea. It needs reform though. WWASP is a stupid organization. It sucks. YOu are right about that. But I believe the good the program can do is a great thing. I hope we can find a way to have reform and see what works. I knwo outpatient rehab dosnt work well. I know impatient works a little better. Rehab in general works fairly well, but not super well. I have been inspired to find a way to incorperate all we know of rehab, see what dosnt work and change it to make it better. I hope we can all find a way to do this. I hope you can see the good in the program. I hope you can take the good from it an see it is not pure evil. I hope someday you can care about the lives it did save. But who knows. I know your hatred runs deep for it so it wont probably happen. But I know I can say, even after my new realizations about WWASP and all that, it wasnt abusive. I wasnt brainwashed. I am not that gullible as to fall for something like that. I am not saying anyhting I dont believe. I think the program can do good for people. I think the program need reform, however. And I think there is hope for the kids suffering form self esteem, suicidal tendancies, depression, drug abuse, ect. I think we can find a way to make it work better.

Amanda

""To see what is right and not to do it is want of courage."
Confucius

[Anonymous]

Brainwashing has nothing to do with intelligence. It really has nothing to do with how smart (or stupid) a person may be. That's why there are people like you and Perrigaud who have been sucked into this "the program is wonderful, the program saved my life, there is no abuse, all hail the holy program" bullshit. That's one of the many reasons the program should be outlawed and eliminated.

And, yes, it is a cult. Very muchly so.

[BuzzKill]

Intelligence can effect ones inability to be brainwashed; but it a LACK of intelligence that makes a person resistant to brain washing. There are two kinds of people that can not be effectively brainwashed, those of low intelligence and the mentally insane. Not just mentally ill, but insane. Psychotics. Everyone else is perfectly susceptible to brainwashing.
But don't take my word for it - educate yourself on the subject. There are many good books available.

[Anonymous]

When I was attending the Resource Realization Seminars,all three. I was impressed with how intelligent some of the parents were.We were there for the purpose of helping our kids,or so we were led to believe.
Many times ,especially when we were sent out to practice "coming out of our box",when in reality we were being prepared to promote their product like good missionarys, I knew  in my heart somethig was not right. My thoughts,now brainwashed over shadowed my intuition.

No excuse just facts as I experienced it.It took months after bringing my child  home to get back into my normal box and to get away from the program guilt of not graduating. My my my!!

Brain washing wor.ks I've seen over and over. Hear the words that are spoken.

[Antigen]

Amanda, I'm sorry if you think it's harsh, but no, your salvation was not worth someone else's destruction. They didn't volunteer to help you unfuck your mind. They were conscripted. Even if you were dying of kidney failure, we wouldn't take a kidney from someone else against their will. We just don't do that in our society.

And I don't have to imagine feeling the way you describe. I remember it very well.

And a lot of the things you know are simply not true. That can be said of anybody. There are some very entertaining and informative books and stand up comic acts built on that silly, simple truth of human nature.

But, as you say you're considering a career in the helping field, it's probably worth mentioning one of the more serious treatments of the topic of substance abuse treatment.

Here's a pretty good rundown on the efficacy of substance abuse treatment as it exists in this country today. http://www.peele.net/lib/projmach.html

Stanton Peele is probably just about the best writer on the topic. And he can be pretty entertaining sometimes too. He once showed up for some kind of hearing or conference dressed as the devil because one of the steppers in attendance had publicly called him the devil for criticizing stepcraft.

I don't think you can safely say that CCM was not abusive. Some kids feel they were abused by CCM. Frankly, anything that comes after "Well, except for the midnight escort, strip search and having my shoes taken..." sounds a whole lot like "I used to be crazy, but I'm much better now."

Now, that said, here's something else you might not know or expect. To this day, there are people who swear Straight saved their lives. My own brother swears The Seed gave him "the tools" to, eventually, perennially, get his act together. Knowing him as well as I do (he was my hero when he was not tormenting me as a kid) I disagree w/ that assessment. But some people actually do become convinced that that obviously abusive program was good and helpful and worthwhile. And every new incarnation that I've ever heard of has been an attempt to salvage the perceived good of the program and eliminate the bad. And every attempt has ended about the same way.

This always tends to evoke a hostile response, but I don't know any better way to describe it. The difference between voluntary participation in therapy of any kind and forced involvement is exactly the same as the difference between making love and getting raped.

One of the pictures in the Rockey Mountain News series shows a bunch of CCM girls in a group hug while one girl in the background is excluded and made to sit in a chair facing the wall. Except for the furniture and a few other visual details, that picture might well have been taken at Straight. Only, if I were the girl in the corner, I would have been laughing up my sleeve. I hated all the mandatory hugging and hand holding and going around telling everybody I loved them all the time. I didn't love them! I didn't hate them, but I really could have done w/o all that unwelcome intimacy.

So one day when I was misbehaving (not sitting up straight, not paying attention to the person talking, just sort of daydreaming) a staffer decided that I was leering at her body.  :rofl: Actually, I'm a little wall eyed and probably was tracking her movement as she paced back and forth in front of group because she was the only thing in my field of vision that was moving. I loved it! Once she established the new reality that I was a lesbian, all of a sudden the other girls (including the actual lesbians) gave me a little space and quit hanging all over me. That's the SNAFU principle in action for ya'! All I had to do was follow the rules, not argue, agree w/ Staff's brilliant assessment and I got just exactly what I wanted.

Being a street cop, witnessing the tragedy firsthand, I've become
convinced that drug prohibition -- not drugs themselves -- are driving the HIV epidemic and the systemic crime that has swamped our criminal justice systems.
--Vancouver Police Const. Gil Puder

[Antigen]

One more thing. Amanda, thank you so much for your kind words. I respect you too and have learned a great deal from you. And that is my intention here. I don't want to promote the idea that CCM is just like TB or any such. I want to better understand what it is, what goes on there and for parents considering sending their kids there to have a shot at that info from sources other than WWASP.

Immortality: A toy which people cry for, And on their knees apply for, Dispute, contend and lie for, And if allowed Would be right proud Eternally to die for.
--Ambrose Bierce

[Anonymous]

To ananymous.
I never said hte progam was god did I? I never said it was perfect. I never ONCE said it didnt need reform. If oyu would read all my posts, I agree that it needs improvment. However, I feel of the programs I ve heard of, CCM seems to be more laid back, less strict, and not abusive. Did you go to CCM? If not it would be hard for oyu to generalize like that. Yes they are all run bya big greedy guy. But I think the program has its points that are effective and make sense. I think that gets lost in the way they are operating it and its harder to see the good it can do when you look at all the imperfections. if I felt the imperfections of it were so wrong, I would say yes, shut it down! If kids were getting pepper sprayed into their eyes then yes shut it down! If kids were not allowed to go to school or read, then yes shut it down. But many of the things you expereinced in other programs 15-20 years ago was not what happened to me in mine. Yes it needs reform. But at least the main principals and main lessons are good things to learn. I think if someone wiht better intentions were running the program, it would be much more effective. As far as braiunwashing goes, Ive been ouy five years now. That must be some pretty darned effective brainwashing. BEsides, if I was brainwashed, why would I point out the weakness of the program? Why woudl I agree wiht you on many points? No I was not brainwashed. I feel I was helped by the program. Sorry if that bothers you but thats just the truth. I have spent a good deal of my life being honest and looking at things from all sides (which by the way was something I learned to do in the program) so I have no reason to lie to you. If you feel I was brainwashed so i dont know what Im talking about then oh well. No point in arguing about it. I just hope you can see the good in the program. And if you didnt go there, then I cant imagine besides heresay and things youve read that you know much about it. I believe you all when you say you were abused there. I believe the stories Ive heard. I have no reason not to believe you. So why is it so hard to look at it from my perspective?
Amanda